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LAWRENCE O'DONNELL, "LAST WORD" HOST: I wanted to get to many of the things that you've said in this very, very provocative peace at "Time." And you make the point that using the definition of terrorism, that we -- we aren't being careful enough in understanding all the ways in which it emerges. You note in your piece, Webster defines terrorism as the use of violent acts to frighten people in an area as a way of trying to achieve a political goal, the systematic use of terror, especially as a means of coercion. And you say that definition fits what Donald Trump is doing. Explain that.
KAREEM ABDUL-JABBAR: What I'm trying to say is that although Mr. Trump isn't committing the violence, when the violence happens, he exploits it. OK, so instead of offering a practical and realistic solutions, he's exploiting people's fear and he's doing ISIS's work for them. And that is something that we can't let him keep doing. We have to say something about it, at least, in order to maybe somehow impact it.
O'DONNELL: You go on to say in the piece, I'm quoting it again now, Trump is ISIS's greatest triumph, the perfect Manchurian candidate, who instead of offering specific and realistic policies preys on the fears of the public, doing ISIS's job for them. And I've got to say, there are times when you see it and you just think, if he had an ISIS campaign adviser in the room, that's what ISIS would have advised him to say today.
ABDUL-JABBAR: Absolutely. And, you know, because of this, we can't do anything about it because for one reason, nothing about his campaign is, let's say, illegal, because in our country, candidates aren't required to tell the truth. So he can lie to his supporters and then just take advantage of their gullibility. And I think that's what's happened up to this point...
I think that Mr. Trump is trying to take advantage of all of the gullibility that he can and get elected. That seems to be what he's doing. And he's doing a pretty good job of it. He's buffaloed a lot of people, and the problem is we don't have enough people challenging him on the basis of the factual reality of what he's saying. So people who don't agree with him, they don't do the fact checking, and call him out on the lies he's telling, and people keep buying it. This is going to continue until somebody has enough nerve to get in there and do something about that and challenge the lack of fact that is really -- I would say that's the touchstone of his campaign.
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