Comment / Israel delegitimizers threaten its existence

As you have been told, and should have already known, the Mandate for Palestine expired at midnight 14 May 1948. From that moment it was no longer an instrument of international law. You are wrong, but I think you knew you were wrong, but wrote it anyway, hoping to deceive. UN 181 was a GA resolution, but when it passed it was referred to the Security Council to determine if during the transitional period the situation in Palestine constituted a threat to peace, and, if so, whether the SC should supplement the authorization of the GA. The SC did so invoking article 39 to stop any attempt to alter the resolution. One can only speculate about your powers of retention, but again, Part II of UN181 permitted Israeli sovereignty only within precisely delineated borders spelled out in meticulous detail. Therefore, all lands occupied by Israel in 1967 are occupied illegally, and that includes your "biblical heartland." UNSC 242 calls for Israel to withdraw from all "occupied" territory.

The fact that ones ancestors lived in a place nearly two thousand years ago does not confer title on that land today. The world turns and land changes ownership.

According to the evidence presented by Prof. Shlomo Sand, (The Invention of the Jewish people) pages 93 ff. The archeological evidence presents nothing of the sort. Nothing has been found except evidence of Palestinian life, Roman, islamic,,,,except for a couple of hundred years, until Bar Kochba. Nobody has rebutted the statements, I must accept them as true.

"Judea and Samaria represent part of the Mandate land promised to the Jews." - Traude The text that you refer to me is a quote from a post written by Joseph E., therefore you should address your response to him. My opinion to that is at the bottem of my post.

it is evident that israel's legitimacy rests in large measureon her historical association with the land. this historical association was explicitly declared in israel's declaration of independence. the declaration specifically refers to israel's ingathering of the exiles.

yes, they are; and the truth is always slanted. those poor, weak, palestinians who fire missiles into israel curtesy of iran. then the pa, whose security forces are trained by the united states army.

And which Israel will we talk to them about?

I have cut and pasted in the past, though not without attribution Dafna. If I had that would be Dafna? A laurel or laurel tree is the root of Daphne or Dafna. A laurel wreath was given to Greeks who won at the olympics or poetry competitions. It was what Romans gave to victors in war. The Judea captiva Denarius and Sesteretius coins commemorated the destruction of Judea by Titus. Titus as the conqueror wore a laurel crown. Dafna my observations and discourse are not intended to condemn or embarrass. Rather to enlighten everyone. Israel is a nation in today's world. A nation which has awarded laurels to such great men as Yigael Allon and Yitzhak Rabin for their conquests and to poets like Yair "anonymous soldiers' Stern and Yehuda "we do not have unknown soldiers' Amichai. Israel is not threatened today Dafna, by the world or outsiders. Those who's whole future, both political and financial, depends upon endless war are those who are the great threat to israel today.

PLO founded 1964. 3 yrs before any so called occupation. founded to 'liberate' what in 1964? the term 'anti semite' is actually not overused & is entirely valid. Not one of you live in a country with next door neighbours as close or as psychotic as israels arab neighbours,yet all of you seem to have this fantasy that only if israel would give them what they want then all this would go away and all of you would support israel..ya right! fact is, all of you are defending the most abhorrent behavior from the palestinian arabs for the last 60 years and no matter the real history, the real truth of who did what when, you ignorantly post here thinking you have a solution ...do any of you SERIOUSLY think if israel just gave back wb and gaza that the arabs would all of a sudden become lovely neighbours? so yes, I call you anti semites, willing to judge israel before you really know the history, and all because they are jews..I dont see you at rallies for chechnya,darfur,sudan,lol...

Phil, you are wrong. There is NOTHING in ancient history that makes Israel a legitimate nation. There was nothing in ancient history that made Israel today. Israel had not existed for over 2,000 years when the current nation was created. It was Jews from Europe who made 'Israel' by moving to Palestine and building the essentials of a nation. They built farms, and then they built industries. They defended those farms and industries and when civil war broke out in Palestine during late 1947. It was those Jews, not ancient history, who fought to hold on to what they had, and secure the necessary lines of communications between those areas. It was the Israelis who declared Independence and named their nation. It was the Israelis who built a nation out of various peoples of the Jewish religion during the 1950s and 1960s. It was Israelis who achieved the final victory which made Israel an irrevocable fact in the Yom Kippur War. Phil, Israelis made Israel, not ancient history.

is a crime against humanity

Quote "The border line of Israel was set by the UN, not by the Mandate. And that border line was the Green Line." There is nothing in Int'l Law that legally empower any UNGA to make any law or illegal any UNGA recommendation unless a vote is adopted at the UNSC in line with the U.N charter. As for the Mandate for Palestine , it was adopted as legally binding for Int'l Law by the UNSC for the question of Israel territorial borders , sovereignty. Up to this day the Mandate for Palestine is valid in Int'l Law and was never invalidated by the UNSC. Quote "The moment Israeli forces crossed that line, they became occupiers of the West Bank. " Consequently our biblical heartland are part of the said mandate and Israel presence in our biblical heartland is legal , is lawfull, There is nothing in Int'l Law that brandish Israel presence in our biblical heartland as illegal , unlawfull or as belligerant or as 'occupiers'. Quote "Joseph E. should take this up with the Justices of the High Court of Israel who have unanimously ruled that Israel is the "belligerent occupier" of the West Bank." the High Court of Israel and ICJ ruling leaned on UNGA resolutions that are illegal as if it was a source of law, all without checking its accuracy or legal standing , the General Assembly of the United Nations can only, in principle, issue 'recommendations' which are not of a binding character, according to Article 10 of the Charter of the United Nations ,the General Assembly has no legal power to legislate or bind its members by way of recommendation . consequently both the High Court of Israel and ICJ ruling labeled the "illusion" that a General Assembly resolution can have "legislative effect."

That continues to blame others for israel's problems instead of looking at Israel and it's militaristic approach and illegal and immoral occupation. What the writer is proposing is more lobbying in favor of Israel and it's criminal policies ...... instead of seeking genuine peace with neighbors. The worst segment are statements that even after a peace treaty between Israel and the Palestinians, nothing will change and these "evil" forces will try to deligitimize Israel to which I say BS. Israel is doing a superb job of deligitimizing itself.

"Judea and Samaria represent part of the Mandate land promised to the Jews." - Traude I won't call you a liar Traude. There is a difference between ignorance and mendacity. There was no promise in the Mandate that all of the mandate would be given to Jews and only Jews. There was a requirement that the 'Jewish homeland' preserve the rights and property of ALL residents, not just Jews. The resolution establishing the Mandate is easily available at http://www.mideastweb.org/mandate.htm To base the legitimacy of Israel upon the Palestinian Mandate undermines your argument Traude. If the Mandate gave Jews Judea and Samaria it also binds them to do many things. For example, under the Mandate having street signs only in Hebrew would be illegal, and all money would have to bear arabic as well as hebrew script. . . and ALL rights of all other people living in that region would have to be respected equally - including the Palestinians being full citizens of the 'Jewish homeland.

"Since we ARE a political pariah, whether we like it or not..." - Esther Problem - you are in a hole and can't get out. The solution starts with stop digging. Then comes the hard part. Either you have to accept help from someone else or you have to fill the hole back in. . . There are plenty of people and nations trying to help Israel stop turning itself into a pariah nation. But that can't happen until Israel is able to stand up and say "I am Israel, and I am a Settlementholic."

"To deligimize Israel`s legacy, thousands of years of history would have to be re-written." - phil spouting crap Phil, the REAL legitimacy of Israel's 'right to exist' has nothing to do with such babble. The REAL facts that created that legitimacy was the dedication of hundreds of thousands of people who moved to Palestine and created a nation with their bare hands and some help. It was the victory in the civil war that broke out in the last months of 1947 and ended up being the War of Independence. It was the blood, tears and sweat expended in the 1950s and '60s building a self-sufficient nation under difficult conditions. You can take that 'God Owes Us crap and shove it. Ancient history didn't make Israel. Israelis made Israel.

Double standards are applied against Israel , Even when Israel is a member of U.N . Arabs aggression are ignored even with OIC-Arab League U.N. membership.

"Gidi, Israel`s legacy quite secure." - phil from nyc Then why are so many people that were strongly pro-Israel in the past becoming disgusted with what Israel has become? Most of the world cheered when Israel defeated Arab Armies on three fronts, but the world is appalled at what Israel has done since 1982. Why phil? I bet you think it is because everyone else in the world is anti-Semitic. I think the change is because Israel has changed. It has changed from the little guy defending itself into a bully kicking the shit out of helpless people. Perhaps both visions of Israel are a bit overstated, but appearances are appearances.

" for one can not wait for the day when peace arrives and we Israelis can kick the settlers back to where they came from." - Moshe Please don't send them back here. It never ceases to amaze me how Settlers interviewed on TV have New York rather than Israeli accents. "They are no more than a cancer to Israel and the rest of the world." - Moshe They are a bunch of fanatics, often Americans, playing Cowboys and Palestinians while Settling the Wild West Bank. (Cut to scene of Wyatt Earp and Jossi Marcus gunning down the bad guys at the Hebron Corral.)

Jon wrote: "anti semites go home to your own countries publications and weep tears there...you`re not welcome here." If we were anti-semites, why would we bother debating with you on this forum Jon? By debating, we share views and educate eachothers, so that we both get closer to the truth. A true anti-semite would not bother doing that...

I agree, now days Israel can be counted upon to delegitimize itself. But unlike you I am not happy to see Israel do so.

"We should show to the world that we are serious and we want peace, and even if we don`t reach peace at least we are trying." - Yossi Yes, the effort must be open, sincere, and Israel must be clearly seen honestly trying to seek peace. The current policy of deception, dissembling, prevarication and Settlement Expansion worked for a few years after Oslo but eventually everyone caught on. Now not even the USA can just ignore the fraud. "The settlers are dangerous, they are fanatics and somebody has to stop them." - Yossi Who will bell the cat Yossi? They are the creation of Israel and only Israel can stop them. I hear a lot of Israelis grumbling, but when they vote, they vote for people who support Settlements and Settlers. Israel in 1967 would have jumped at the chance for a comprehensive peace based upon it's borders. Now it won't settle for anything but all of Judea and Samaria. The Settlers are the tail that wags the dog.

"Turning Israel into a pariah state is central to its adversaries' efforts. " - Gidi Grinstein And they have the very best of all possible allies. Israel's right, i.e. Likud, Yisrael Beiteinu, Kadima and the Settlers, continue to act in ways guaranteed to turn Israel into a pariah. The current foreign policy is to alienate as many nations as possible. The current big question is whether to attack Gaza or Lebanon first. The systematic expansion of Settlements - which NO other nation recognizes as legitimate or legal continues. Israel maintains a failed blockade of Gaza which makes it look sadistic. There is an attitude that if the world doesn't like what Israel does, then Israel should do more of it just because. Israel's enemies don't have to lift a finger to delegitimize Israel. Israel is doing it for them. The current government wants all Israelis to view the entire world is their enemy. And the main method being used to achieve this is to make the world Israel's enemy.

"In 2006, Israel was dragged through a 33-day exchange, with a cost of 133 dead and a trauma to Israeli society that will take years to heal." - Gidi Grinstein The strategy was moronic, the planning hasty, and execution botched. There was a total failure at the top to comprehend that not only would Hizbollah fight, but that it would retaliate massively. What was to be a few days of Shock and Awe strafing Lebanon turned into a fiasco. The most disgusting thing was the logistic failure which left IDF soldiers a short distance inside Lebanon having to pillage stores to eat. The most important thing to the government was to be seen doing something dramatic fast.

"Over a three-year period, despite overwhelming military, technological and economic superiority, we failed to achieve decisive successes in confrontations with both Hezbollah and Hamas." - Gidi Grinstein That is because neither operation was intended to actual crush the enemy. Both operations targeted infrastructure and civilians rather than enemy combatants. The Olmert government fought both wars for political advantage in Israel and not to actual destroy the enemy. Thus IDF casualties had to be kept low.

For decades, zionist propaganda spouted that Palestinians left Palestine on their own, having been told to do so by Arab countries. It's surprising to encounter someone who still repeats it. That went out of vogue in the 1980s when it was proven by the international community to be a blatant lie. According to Yitzak Rabin's diary comments, 50,000 were forced to leave all their belongings and walk 10-15 miles from Lydda and Ramle to Arab positions in 100 degree heat. Many died on the way. Page 132, Understanding power: The indispensable Chomsky: "about 300,000 Palestinians already had been expelled from their homes and fled in a region well beyond the are of the original Jewish state". After 10 years of research, Le Monde reported, "between 700,000 and 900,000 were forced to leave." Nine Israeli historians have rejected Zionist claims that refugees left voluntarily. Palestinians didn't take up arms, on 15 May 1948 Jordan occupied the West Bank and fought Israel.

"a dire need for Israel to reform its security and foreign policy doctrine." Indeed. Israelis need to demand that their government ends its war to prevent Palestinian statehood and accept their legal and moral obligations, before the state implodes under the weight of its own radicalism and rejectionism.

Someday, I'd like to see my Israeli friends have something more than a Napoleonic peace. That would involve their government treating the Palestinian neighbors like human beings, something you seem to abhor. Your anti-Arab, anti-Persian prejudices show fully as much as any past or present antisemitism. Blind hatred like yours fuels the conflict. If that makes me leftist or Liberal in your mind, I'm happy to accept the label. Your right wing pseudo-intellectual bigotry is showing.

When accused of giving his opponents hell, Harry Truman replied he just told the truth and they felt like hell about it. Perhaps the facts that a group invades a country, expelled many of its inhabitants and treat the remnant who stayed as inferior has something to do with my attitude. If that makes me feel the state which did and continues to do those things illegitimate, there may very well be sound reasons for my conclusion.

It is a curious fact that zionists will always change the subject when criticisms as made of Israel. What does the number of Jews expelled from other countries have to do with those Israel expelled?" What does the armies that attacked Israel have to do with its expulsion policy? As to the number expelled, the fact that you still accept the propaganda that only a few thousand were expelled at this late date means that it is useless for me to bring up any of the information you have consciously refused to hear.

The arab revisionism of who is the native population is the problem The Muslims desecration of Jewish holy sites is the problem, especially the HOly of HOlies, the temple MOunt. The Muslim occupation of the Temple Mount must end.

Trying to create another Arab Palestinian state for a people that didnt exist before the 60s to a land that never existed. Thats Chutzpah on the Arabs. They have maintained a history or lies and liberal eat it up. Too bad they are more interested in appeasement than peace.

"Most nations, including America would move to help repair the damage they caused and try to reach out to their victims" The US military has the most sophisticated weapons and technology in the world and yet they have killed many non combatents in Iraq and Afghanistan. (1) Of course they apologize and reach out to those people; they are trying to win their hearts and minds. The American position is that the US is in Iraq and Afghanistan to protect the people from extremists who would harm them, so of course they would reach out to the people. The Israelis and the Palestinians are enemies locked in a life and death struggle. The Palestinians cheered when buses were blowing up in Israel. The supported Hamas which launched thousands of missles at Israel. (1)That's what happens in war.Even Nato, during the bombing of Serbia killed hundreds of civilians; a Nato spokesman said that it was unfortunate, but a consequence of war, and they didn't issue an apology).

My post was not #46, but presume you meant #78. You are also confused about UN resolutions and 4th Geneva Convention articles, because presumably you have read none of them. The only resolution I quoted which could have been accepted or rejected by anybody was UN 181, which Israel activated by declaring statehood. It is irrelevant that Arabs rejected it. The other UN resolutions, and articles of the 4th Convention, were effected to establish international law. They were not for Israel or the Arabs, nor anybody else, to accept or reject. They are in effect now and still constitute international law. All the Arab countries have not waged continuous war against Israel in its 60 years of life. Israel hasn't had a war with any Arab armed forces in 36 years. What you just read is not fiction. The only fiction was is your declaration that all resolutions and articles previously noted are non- existent, and that Israel has faced continuous war by all Arab nations (22 of them) for 60 years.

You've hit the nail on the head.

You remind me of a nagging woman. If you were a man I would say a nagging man...do not take this as a sexist comment. I have asked you several times on Haaretz to put forth some concrete ideas that would make Israel a better world citizen. ....but all you do is carp. Surely you are not the sole Israeli to find fault within the country. Who or where is your political spokesperson ? Rather than sit all day long at your computer dissing your country...get out there and work to make it right. Shalom from Montreal.

No one can delegitimize Israel as does Israel itself - whether under Netanyahu, Olmert, Barak or the others. In fact, there are real 'delegitimizers' out there. There are serious, legitimate, critic of Israeli policies all over the world, including in Israel itself and on the pages of this great newspaper: Amira Hass, Gideon Levy, Akiva Eldar and others. Entirely illegitimate are the Israeli Occupation, the attack on Gaza, and the like. To confuse this with delegitimizing Israel itself is a convenient misrepresentation: "you're either for us or against us," etc. More on this at: http://www.Israeli-Occupation.org

The article misses the point entirely. Among the many actions - too long to describe here - are stopping the settlements, reining in the settlers and land theft, for starters dismantling at least the "outposts", stop discrimination against Arabs and train the IDF to behave like soldiers, instead of like stormtroopers. That's just a beginning. David

".... In 2006, Israel was dragged through a 33-day exchange, with a cost of 133 dead and a trauma to Israeli society that will take years to heal...." Yes, 133 dead (soldiers !) is traumatic. Then imagine the trauma of 1400 dead, the majority of them non-soldiers, children and women - not to mention the maimed ! By that yardstick, that trauma should take centuries to heal. Probably will. David

In 21st century, new paradigm, even against sworn enemies. Military anhialation of the enemy lacks political correctness. Economic victories butressed by strong military "defense" working very well, and forces enemy into PR campaigns that more and more, worldwide, fall on deaf ears. To deligimize Israel's legacy, thousands of years of history would have to be re-written. With every archiological search and discovery, throughout Israel, Israel's legacy as Jewish homeland reinforced. As solid as force of gravity, which sworns would dismiss if they could find another natural way of keeping their hats on. Israel's legitimacy far, far greater than the sworn enemy's ability to resist their own inevitable decent to their economic, military, and political abyss

In post #79 I alluded to the missing strategic vision, exhibited by Israeli short-term thinking. Here is some of what is missing. The Palestinian problem is the core issue, and it is possible to solve it today. Hamas is difficult as a partner but Abbas is willing. Get a deal with him, which was reportedly quite advanced by Olmert. After that have a referendum in the West Bank only, and then the IDF moves into Gaza (after some sufficient cause), takes casualties but destroys most of Hamas and their rockets, and hands over the area to Abbas who will uproot his opposition. Vision starts at home, and Netanyahu should be honest with himself: He is not able to make the concessions that will produce a deal with the Palestinians. He is a political coward who tries to please everybody, but most of Likud members are true ideologists and hard liners, even if wrong-headed. Netanyahu should pursue something he is capable of accomplishing: Peace with Syria. This will take care of Lebanon issue

another contributor to the bucket of total bunkum. if the media gave pro rata attention to china and russia as the time spent on israel , no one would even hear of israel !!!

... openly their support of Israel's right to exist? Would be interesting to know. Because this would make their criticism more credible and honest, and indeed useful for peace. On the contrary, if they are not willing to so, they must be ready to face the charge to be possible "delegitimizers" whose aim is to put into question the very existence of Israel. It's a question of honesty, and not just intellectual.

Not those that point out its deficiencies. As for sending out troops of propagandists to cosy up to world elites...are you for real the world is overflowing with them now. The only deligitimizers with power I see support Israel unquestioningly and focus on Palestinians and sabotage any chance at an independent state for them......Gidi is just one more employee of the Orwellian "Ministry of Truth"......PEACE EVER?

"In recent years, Israel attacked Lebanon in response to the kidnapping of IDF soldiers by Hizballah." Wrong. Many love to say Israel used this as "weak excuse", while omitting that Israel was also responding to the SIMULTANEOUS murder of another 8 of its soldiers, combined with SIMULTANEOUS Hizballah rocket barrages on most all of Israel's northern towns. The patent partial truths of the Israel-haters are sickening and show their true colors.

'While Israel aims to avoid civilian casualties' As Goldstone elucidated, telephoning your intended victim to inform him he his home is to bombed then making no allowance for an escape route is not a good example of 'avoiding civilian casualties'. Nor was the bombing of escape convoys in Lebanon 2006 or the spreading of millions of cluster bomblets over wide swathes of territory in the last 48hrs of that conflict when a ceasefire was clearly imminent, all of which have led to the murder of many hundreds of young children as well as hundreds of women and the elderly. "But the delegitimization effort would continue even if Israel were to sign a comprehensive peace treaty with the PLO" How do we know? Even Nasrallah himself has stated on film that were the Palestinians to accept a peace deal with Israel, Hizbollah would have no right to oppose it. Iran in 2003 offered to negotiate its relationship with Hamas and Hizbollah and accept the Arab peace proposals for an agreement with Israel AND its own nuclear programme, if this is what the great Satan required so long as Irans voice would be heard and its interests recognized. That the very self evident improbability of any such "comprehensive peace treaty" [for which one may read: economic dependency/autonomy] with the Palestinians is itself certain to increase diplomatic and economic pressures in the years to come. "Therefore, an extraordinary effort is required to respond to and isolate Israel's delegitimizers. We must play offense and not just defense". For which one can translate. "Lets call them all anti semites and self haters and keep reminding them of the Holocaust".

Which totalitarian groups would that be? Again by using sweeping generalisations and accusations you are attempting to change the subject. So if you can give me instances where the West suports terrorist organisations then can you show these examples. You can then explain to me how supporting these terrorist groups is different from supporting Stern, Haganah and Irgun? Or are there good terrorists that you should support and celebrate by say erecting plaques at the site of their outrages and bad terrorists who should be universally condemned, and if it is illegal to blow up a pizza parlour full of kids why is it not illegal to blow up a school in Gaza? Or is killing Palestinian children different to killing Israeli children?

to stifle any criticism of the State of Israel is underway. The 'new anti-semitism' speech by Lieberman failed so now there is an attempt to portray those who criticise the policies of the Israeli government as attempting to question the legality of the existence of Israel. Well I suppose when you have lost the argument then shooting the messenger is the next best option as has been promoted on this thread.

Maybe it's time for Israel to stop it's thuggish actions and start talking.You seem to live eat and breathe war and aggression. It hasn't worked. Have the courage to try the civilised route.

... Gidi Greenstein now makes an appeal to academe to continue the battle into the last bulwark of personal relationships... oh me G*D...

The Palestinian-arab problem is seen in Europe as apartheid and bantustans, disregarding the fact that the PA refused the offers of 2000 and 2008-2009. Unilateral leaving the PA in an israeli defined territory, internally connected and externally also bordering to Jordan, would change the facts significantly. Remind Europe of "refugees" flying from democracy, do not comply do the definition of refugees. Also refugees tend to run away from the battle-lines, not straight across as the arabs in 1948. Leave some parts of the West Bank to those who could eventually prove they were unarmed and expelled. The effect will be "Hamastan" and "Fatahland", but it is better to retaliate every second year, than to be the pariah of the west.

Quote: the Mandate for Palestine specified the land for a Jewish Homeland. This fact makes ridiculous the charges that we are "occupiers" in Judea and Samaria . Occupation takes place when the army of one sovereign state moves into the territory of another. Judea and Samaria represent part of the Mandate land promised to the Jews. How, then, can it be said that Jews are "occupiers" there? With your above statement you completely delegitimize the State of Israel with her Declaration of Independence based on the acceptance of UNGA Res 181 as well as Israels Membership in the UN preconditioned on the implementaion of Res 181 and 194. You prove beyond doubt that Israeli signatures are not worth the paper their are written on.

All too often in recent public discourse in Israel, criticism of the state?s actions tends to be equated with an existential threat. I am not saying the present author is doing this, but it has been happening far too often of late, and it is not in Israel?s interests. When the terms ?anti-Semite? and ?enemy of Israel? are bandied about on a regular basis for anyone who criticizes Israel?s actions ? and what state does *not* get criticized for its actions? ? they become devalued, and we no longer have terms serious enough for the parties who really do endanger Israel. We put ourselves in the position of crying wolf, and then we wonder why the real threats are not seriously.

you cannot win decisive victories ! how long usa in iraq afghanistan ??

"Over a three-year period, despite overwhelming military, technological and economic superiority, we failed to achieve decisive successes in confrontations with both Hezbollah and Hamas." And the correct conclusion to draw from that is this: Don't Be So Quick To Reach For The Guns To Solve Your Problems. You continue to believe that the quickest and easiest solution to your problems is to blow them to bits with your nifty weaponry. Why do you keep doing this? You have been trying this some trick since 1967, and not once have you suceeded. You are a one-trick pony, and the erosion that you bemoan is not to "Israel's legitimacy", but to the legitimacy of Israel's much-too-quick resort to overwhelming force. Try another trick, because EVERYBODY has grown weary of this one.

Cipora Julianna Kohn writes: "if they [the Europeans] were real humanitarians, they would not support islamic terror states, but they do." Which "Europeans" support Islamic terror states? Please be specific. Please provide a single example of a European government or a main stream representative public institution that "supports Islamic terror states". Bear in mind that the EU regards as "terrorism" and condemns suicide bombings against Israeli civilians. Perhaps some small loony left or neonazi sects or extremist sectors among Muslim migrants endorse anti-Israel terrorism, but main stream European opinion, even in the left, harshly condemns Islamic terror & accepts Israel's legitimacy in her 1967 borders. You cannot deconstruct criticism (even harsh) as support for Islamic terror. To take the marginal extreme opinion in order to characterize "Europeans" in general is a libel. Would you accept using Jewish terrorists or Meir Kahana as a standard to characterize Jews in general

dicisive victories can be won only through use of overwhelming force, outside of the confines of the geneva conventions and with unlimited resources. henec, israel will never win a dicisive victory. indeed, since the end of wwii, such victories have been extremely rare. the soviet union collapsed under the weight of its own imperialism and marxist economic programs. european countries will stop supporting islamic terror groups and their state sponsors when they realise that it is in their own interest to do so. islamic terrorists cannot function without the financial and ideological support of islamic states.

but what the author fails to understand, is that there IS no "unholy alliance" taking place. it's NOT israel's "enemies" who are influencing world opinion; IT IS ISRAEL. he also fails to understand that no amount of public relations effort is going to change anyone's thoughts on the issues, which are the result of both an increasing awareness of those issues, and a growing sensitivity/empathy in western nations, towards the human injustice and oppression they represent. that being the case, the international "delegitimization" of israel that's currently taking place would INDEED end if israel reached an equitable agreement with the palestinians. israel's "enemies" would no doubt remain, but they would remain allied with only themselves; JUST AS THEY ARE NOW...only weakened by the loss of a conflict that helped fuel their agenda. they have NO impact on the world's view of israel.

it is not deligitimized.

The only way to fight against delegitimization is to make political moves that further legitimize Israel. The top thing that countries traditionally have done to legitimize themselves is to establish borders and make peace treaties with their neighbors. Internationally recognized borders and peace treaties with neighbors are the NORM in the West. Achieving these will completely undercut those who are trying to delegitimize Israel. Just whining about being delegitimized isn't going to accomplish anything.

thinks they are just innocent victims of a large land grab.

Israel forcefully expelled only a few thousand during a war of defence. After that Ben Gurion allowed 50,000 to return, including many who left due to the fear of war. And you forget the million Jews forcefully thrown out from Arab countries. They did not take up arms against them. Palestinians took up arms against Israel, and called on 5 Arab armies to invade it the day it was born, long before any Palestinians were expelled by Israel.

CJ:"It was agreed, on all our behalves, by the Jewish People`s Council, to accept the boundaries of Res 181 and to abide by International Law." Was this before Israel unilaterally declared itself to be in existence or after the "proposal" by the General Assembly which had to be validated by the Security Council?

oh, boo-hoo! trying to find someone else to blame, again.

The course of action Israel must take to reduce the likelihood of a nuclear terrorist attack involves politics at least as much as it does security and intelligence. The more people who are willing to sacrifice their lives in order to carry out a nuclear terrorist attack on Israel, the more likely such an attack is to occur. It is therefore in Israel's interest to reduce the number of such people. And that cannot be done by killing them; it can only be done by removing or reducing their motivation. The easiest way Israel could dramatically reduce the number of such people in the world would simply be to withdraw from the West Bank and Gaza Strip (which together constitute a single territory, not two - and it includes East Jerusalem) and permitting the establishment of a truly sovereign Palestinian state there. That would drastically reduce the pool of people willing to die in order to hurt Israel.

... on your post 46; none of them being accepted by both the palestinians & arab countries and they are all reduced by the palestinians & the arab countries into none existence. Wars between israel and all the arab countries waged continuous against israel. If the Arab Countries would have won one of these wars, israel wouldn't be there now and no one would have been the wiser ! Making history into a selected fictions to suits once illusions;don't make one a historian ! Either one takes what has happen after every resolution or one going deep into misrepresnting the truth. Israel was at war in its 60 years of life. Wars that are documented that israel couldn't have avoided. No resolution was made by the UN to stop them & israel stood alone to defend itself ! The arabs have lost all these wars and they are not sorry ! That is the heart of the truth !

As Didi Grinstein surely knows very well, Israel's existence is guaranteed by nuclear weapons. No outside force can threaten Israel's existence. Only Israel itself can threaten its existence. The idea that "delegitimation" could pose an existential threat to Israel is ludicrous. The only thing that threatens Israel's existence is military force and/or nuclear weapons. The military power of Israel's adversaries is permanently neutralized by Israel's nuclear deterrent. The only thing that could conceivably endanger Israel's physical existence is a nuclear attack carried out by non-military means: i.e. by a non-state terrorist group. That - while highly unlikely - admittedly *could* happen, and Israel should take measures to prevent it; but it has nothing whatsoever to do with campaigns of "delegitimization" of the type Grinstein speaks of here.

The author refuses to admit Israel's own responsibilities in this delegitimization process. Blame everybody else is too simple. It only makes matters worse and delegitimises Israel even more on the world stage.

"But the delegitimization effort would continue even if Israel were to sign a comprehensive peace treaty with the PLO" - G. Grinstein "Where there is no vision, the people perish" - Prov. 29:18 Grinstein, the founding president of the Reut (vision) Institute which is supposed to develop strategic vision for Israel, shows little vision himself. His life is made easy by postulating that the real problem is good Public Relations. Sorry, but the evidence does not support such a silly conclusion. In recent years, Israel attacked Lebanon in response to the kidnapping of IDF soldiers by Hizballah. What was the goal: destroy as much Lebanese infrastructure until the soldiers are returned. This is a short term view by definition. The IDF did not even try to encircle the Hizballah fighters and destroy them. Same story with Gaza: Punishing bombing, but no direct confrontation with Hamas in order to avoid IDF casualties. Short term thinking by definion. Doctor Grinstein, heal thyself.

It's rare to hear from someone who hasn't read anything since 1948. One wonders why anyone but an historian would care about the Mandate. It was to establish in Palestine (not all of it) a national home for Jewish people, but said clearly, that nothing should be done which might prejudice civil or religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine. The Mandate, however, is irrelevant because it expired on 14 May 1948, and from that date was no longer an instrument of international law, when Israel, under UN resolution 181, declared statehood. Part II of UN181 meticulously determined the precise borders of the Israeli state. When Israel occupied the rest of Palestine in1967, and refused to withdraw from the newly occupied territory, it was in violation of UN resolutions 242,452 and 465. When it built in the West Bank and annexed Jerusalem it was in violation of articles 49, 53, and 147 of 4th Geneva Convention. Such breaches of the Convention are war crimes.

So all that is required is for Israel to be really, really nice to everyone else and then everyone else won't mind that Israel is not so nice to the Palestinians? What a fickle bunch this author thinks we are. Are we really supposed to believe that Israeli actions against the Palestinians have zero influence on how Arabs (does anyone else love that generalisation as much as I do?) perceive Israel? When a Jewish community somewhere in the world is affected by acts of hatred from other people, then all of Israel and the international Jewish community lend support, nothing incomprehensible about that. However, when an Arab community is the victim of Israeli oppression, then suddenly their show of support for that community is presented as antisemitic hatred? How does that work?

2,000 years ago in Europe, no one had ever heard of a Jew. You and your brethren must recognize that you cannot subject another people to a harsh, brutal and humiliating occupation for 42 years, take their land, destroy their crops, try to starve them to death (Gaza) and have many friends in the world. When you violate basic human rights for decades, people are going to hate you for your actions, whether you are Jewish, Nepalese, Uyghurs or Apaches.

A question: What the Palestinians & Arab, for that matter, won 'the hearts & minds' of the world' ?! For the palestinians by playing themselves the victims & the underdogs who have brothers who won the world in the oil lottery ! And remember anti-Semitism was alive & kicking before Palestine was on any map ! Your post Mark is a one sided Leftist. It helps no one Jews & others. An ideology that serve no one but its rhetorical self !

The article says No to PR and then simply advocates PR. Very silly. Israel has to alter its policies and get a peace agreement on 1967 borders etc. Even then it will take a very long time for the world to forget the last forty years of abuse and invasion of neighbours.

implicit in your post is that israel is an illegitimate state. hence you prove my point, as well as the point of the article, namely, that so-called critics in fact want to delegitimise the jewish state.

Implicit in your post is the assumption that there is no fault in any of Israel's dealings, and that Israel has the right to take over the homeland of the local people, expel hundreds of thousands of them, and oppress those who remain. Perhaps you should consider the possibility that some of the criticism of Israel is appropriate, not prejudice.

If so and it is a fact that this is the only lobby in USA Israel loves - then Israel has a problem. Israelis keep electing right-wingers whose only platform is war because war can excuse everything else. Well, until Israelis do that, the circle of friends will get smaller every hour.

pesky terrorists like hamas have this annoying habit of blowing up innocent people in neighbouring sovereign countries. anti semites go home to your own countries publications and weep tears there...you're not welcome here.

"First, let`s do the right thing and forge a peace of mutual dignity and honor and security for Israel and the Palestinians alike, because it is the right thing for us to do." RIGHT! In every respect! Do Justice; love kindness, and walk humbly with your God. - Micah

"Others say that Israel's policy is key, and that a genuine and credible commitment to the peace process will decrease both criticism and delegitimization of the country." I thought for a moment that the author was really going somewhere, but no: "But the delegitimization effort would continue even if Israel were to sign a comprehensive peace treaty with the PLO". Maybe it would, but in that case we Europeans would not buy into it! Get it?

"Judea and Samaria represent part of the Mandate land promised to the Jews." Joseph E. is confusing the promise to Abraham with the decision of the UN and calling it the Mandate. The border line of Israel was set by the UN, not by the Mandate. And that border line was the Green Line. The moment Israeli forces crossed that line, they became occupiers of the West Bank. Joseph E. should take this up with the Justices of the High Court of Israel who have unanimously ruled that Israel is the "belligerent occupier" of the West Bank.

Posted: "Enough with the settlements, we should negotiate fairly with the Palestinians. We should show to the world that we are serious and we want peace, and even if we don`t reach peace at least we are trying. The settlers are dangerous, they are fanatics and somebody has to stop them." Yossi you are absolutly right. I for one can not wait for the day when peace arrives and we Israelis can kick the settlers back to where they came from. They are no more than a cancer to Israel and the rest of the world.

Going to "elites" is AIPAC approach, it is not working any more. There is an effort of anti-Israeli forces to delegitimize Israel through grass-root campaign. This is where the focus of the next battle should be.

Victims have this annoying habit of trying to delegitimize their oppressors.

thanks for your continued vigilance here against the propaganda machine...

"... the Guardian ... full of hatred and lies about Israel." Give a few examples. Otherwise, you're just trying to smear a well-respected UK newspaper because it is critical of Israeli behaviour.

Israelis seem to be permanantly stuck right after WW2. Thinking the whole world is out to get you. I guess it's explainable in terms of social psychology... On one hand you cry terrorism, on the other "Judea and Samaria and all Jerusalem are ours for ever and ever". You have to choose, you want Judea Samaria and all Jerusalem? Expect to fight for it for the rest of eternity. You want peace? Evacuate the colonies and Peace will be done in one year. You choose.

The bi-national state advocates, a hostile Soviet Union arming every Arab in sight, and terror attacks like the Entebbe episode pushed Israel to the military and political wall. Despite all those challenges, the decade ended with peace with Egypt. Time is on Israel's side. Very unwise to take the alarmist view this article presents. Israel is winning the lawfare battle as western nations realize their necks are even more on line should Israel end up in the ICC defendant's dock. Nations with universal jurisdiction laws like the UK and Spain are adjusting them so the Palestinians can't use them for political manipulation.

but what the author fails to understand, is that there IS no "unholy alliance" taking place. it's NOT israel's "enemies" who are influencing world opinion; IT IS ISRAEL. he also fails to understand that no amount of public relations effort is going to change anyone's thoughts on the issues, which are the result of both an increasing awareness of those issues, and a growing sensitivity/empathy in western nations, towards the human injustice and oppression they represent. that being the case, the international "delegitimization" of israel that's currently taking place would INDEED end if israel reached an equitable agreement with the palestinians. israel's "enemies" would no doubt remain, but they would remain allied with only themselves; JUST AS THEY ARE NOW...only weakened by the loss of a conflict that helped fuel their agenda. they have NO impact on the world's view of israel.

We saw what civilized states have done in WW II, such as Dresden bombings..If only %4 of Faza favors Hamas, that i suggest they should use their civilized power to topple Hamas and bring an end to these Warmongers, or don`t cry when attacked by the Country which the Party you voted decides to attack her and declares it wants to destroy her.Poor Gazans had better life when Israel occupied there, when Israel left Gaza for good everything fell apart....

Quote: the Mandate for Palestine specified the land for a Jewish Homeland. This fact makes ridiculous the charges that we are "occupiers" in Judea and Samaria . Occupation takes place when the army of one sovereign state moves into the territory of another. Judea and Samaria represent part of the Mandate land promised to the Jews. How, then, can it be said that Jews are "occupiers" there? With your above statement you completely delegitimize the State of Israel with her Declaration of Independence based on the acceptance of UNGA Res 181 as well as Israels Membership in the UN preconditioned on the implementaion of Res 181 and 194. You prove beyond doubt that Israeli signatures are not worth the paper they are written on. Israel doesn't need other countries to delegitimize her.

Israel's problems with Europe stem largely from an American mindset in many key Israelis that has all the American prejudices about Europe and all the blindness about America itself. They see Europe has totally populated by anti-semites still longing for the Holocaust and new anti-semitic Islamists. They see Europe as weak and jealous of the US and Israel. They see America as the model for the world. By contrast, we Europeans know that only a small percentage of criticism of Israel is prompted by anti-semitism. Most of it is from people tired of a country that claims to be a western democracy discriminating against Arabs and keeping another people, the Pals, permanentlt captive. We love America, but we are not blind to its past as a genocidal settler community, any more than we are blind to Europe's own genocidal past. We also see the hypocrisy of American Zionists, sprung from a society that treats all races equally, defending Israel,when Israel explicitly is for Jews above othe

"Israel's delegitimacy is propagated in a few global metropolises - such as London, Madrid and the Bay Area - that are hubs of international NGOs, media outlets, academia and multinational corporations. Therefore, an extraordinary effort is required to respond to and isolate Israel's delegitimizers. We must play offense and not just defense." Which corporations are you alluding to? CNN? the BBC? These media outlets accept Israel's legitimacy in her 1967 borders (as mainstream opinion worldwide). Are you concerned about some campus NGO's that do not accept "Israel's tight to exist". How much political clout can these NGO's wield? You build yourself a very convenient straw man that you can whip around and blame it for Israel's bad image. Criticizing Israel, even in very harsh terms, is not a threat to Israel's existence. Israel's resources can certainly be put to better use than feeding a persecution complex that nobody buys anymore.

no one wishes israel well. there are only those who might not wish her outright harm. the europeans are scared of the terrorists. furthermore, they are still suffering from a two thousand year old disease called antisemitism. pay no attention to those who claim they only condemn israel's actions. such is pure propaganda in most cases. if they were real humanitarians, they would not support islamic terror states, but they do.

Until we are truly committed to a genuine peace initiative with the Palestinians no PR in whatever form, shape or financial investment is going to help effectively counteract the fanatics and extremists in the Arab and Muslum World. First, let's do the right thing and forge a peace of mutual dignity and honor and security for Israel and the Palestinians alike, because it is the right thing for us to do. And only then can we truly wage an assertive, justified and highly effective diplomatic offensive against Ahmadinejad and Nasrallah and the Hamas war machine. When we legitimize our soul again, we can then deligitimize their evil.

The real cause of the delegitimization is the abysmal stupidity of a government so ignorant of the law of cause and effect. Why do we make is so easy for those who wish us harm and so difficult for those who wish us well?

When Israelis question their legitimate rights to live in Israel we can not expect the world to be different.

Personal relationships (i.e. lobbying) will not counter the effect of not abiding by international law, civil and human rights, laws of war, The article is correct in the facts observed but in no way in the solutions. The old refrain : "the world is against us" ...

For Western consumption, the PA alludes to "occupation" as Israeli presence in Judea and Samaria. In internal documents, "occupation" refers to any Israeli presence in the land. the Mandate for Palestine specified the land for a Jewish Homeland. This fact makes ridiculous the charges that we are "occupiers" in Judea and Samaria . Occupation takes place when the army of one sovereign state moves into the territory of another. Judea and Samaria represent part of the Mandate land promised to the Jews. How, then, can it be said that Jews are "occupiers" there ?

What is being "delegitimized" are Israel's actions and not Israel itself. The doom and gloom you are predicting is a result of these actions. The world was never really against the existence of Israel but today it's against what Israel is doing. You are really proposing that Israel takes the offensive of a more savy PR campaign to have the world accept Israel's illegitimate actions because the "existential threat" card is used-up and nobody loves a tyrant. It won't work; the best and simplest you could suggest to Israel is for it to change its wrong ways. Israel is threatening its own existence and without any outside help.

each sovereign has the right to determine its own laws of nationality, citizenship and immigration. israel has a population of 1.5 million arabs, almost wholly muslim. they all have israeli citizenship.

"Israel's delegitimacy is propagated in a few global metropolises - such as London, Madrid and the Bay Area - that are hubs of international NGOs, media outlets, academia and multinational corporations. Therefore, an extraordinary effort is required to respond to and isolate Israel's delegitimizers. We must play offense and not just defense." Which corporations are you alluding to? CNN? the BBC? These media outlets accept Israel's legitimacy in her 1967 borders (as mainstream opinion worldwide). Are you concerned about some campus NGO's that do not accept "Israel's tight to exist". How much political clout can these NGO's wield? You build yourself a very convenient straw man that you can whip around and blame it for Israel's bad image. Criticizing Israel, even in very harsh terms, is not a threat to Israel's existence. Israel's resources can certainly be put to better use than feeding a persecution complex that nobody buys anymore.

israel is a successor to the 1922 mandate in its entirety that is its de jure legality! it has never been altered by any body with power to do so !!! to deny this would challenge all countries carved from the ottoman empire !1

western elites worship universalism and so-called international law. these very same western elites support the totalitarian terror groups and states that would destroy israel. these western elites were the same who supported the ussr even after the horrific crimes of stalin were revealed, there were many who continued to claim that a better, purer, marxist ideal could be constructed. these elites, who despise the united states, and regard israel as a colonial implant, will continue to support the totalitarian islamists in the name of multiculturalism, anti-colonialism and universalism. they will never see the irony or self-destruction in their purist utopean dreams.

full of hatred and lies about Israel. You could call it distortion central and you would be on the money.

We all know who I am referring to. For them, like the rest of the radical left, Arabs, their despot allies, and all others who are reflexively anti-Israel, bashing Israel is a means to its destruction. They are not interested in honest criticism - which requires balance and logic - but use their words as bullets and Qassams. Therefore, ignore them and just point the lucid and colossal irony lost on these armchair terrorists of writing on our site, the site of a free and open Israeli (sorry Zionist) newspaper. In our country, a country with self criticism which seek balance and justice. A country that considers and then struggle with moral issues. In short, all of that is missing from their narrative. How ironic indeed.

Israel's behavior threatens its existence.

It's astonishing how people try to single out "a few" ennemies without really questioning the policies that led to the "unholy" alliance between islamist extremists and "european elites". Most opinion leaders do not sit on the helm of society, but rather at the basis of it, where you'll have a real hard time getting to know them better.

Can you change Europeans after 2,000 years of antisemitism? I doubt it.

So you're advocating more propaganda by your "elite" friends in the West in order to brainwash the hoi polloi even more than you already have? You are still responding to the trauma of the Holocaust, not to today's treats.

may be it is a high time to go after those delegitimizers, whereever they are, madrid or bay area with everything you have ... you know, take them out, you can do it, can't you? bring down the house of jew haters, one man at a time, piece by piece

There's a subtle difference between the legitimacy of the state of Israel, and it's actions. When Israel deludes itself into thinking it has a God given right to indulge in occupation and colonialism, in violation of various UN resolutions and the fourth Geneva Convention, then Israel loses any legitimacy it ever had - and no propaganda will change world opinion on that count!

There are none so blind as those who do not want to see. Israel is in breach of International Law, the UN Charter, the Geneva Conventions, the Laws of War, even it's own Declaration of a Jewish State. It has illegally acquired, by war/force, territories belonging to the people of the non-state entity of Palestine, it has illegally annexed East Jerusalem, it has illegally instituted Israeli Civil Law in "territories occupied" It has cleansed by not recognizing RoR. In 2009, it prevented civilians from fleeing a war zone by having all means of escape blocked under the 2005 agreement with Egypt, then proceeded to attack Gaza. We were granted a homeland/state, with more than enough room for every Jewish person on the planet. It was agreed, on all our behalves, by the Jewish People's Council, to accept the boundaries of Res 181 and to abide by International Law. Israel was recognized on that basis, by the International Community of states, over riding the Arab states objections.

This is not an effective diplomatic strategy. Though it is the one adopted by the government of Israel after both Lebanon I, Summer Rains and Cast lead I. The world has progressed beyond the British and French view at the end of WWI. Even they learned that lesson. Colin Powell told George Bush, "if you break it, you own it and you'll have to fix it." Israeli politicians don't seem to get this. As a result they will likely never win a heart or mind among those they have defeated on the battlefield. Rather they seem to relish the enmity they create. Iran won more hearts and minds rebuilding Lebanon. Hamas is winning more in Gaza. Israel will win more hearts and minds in the Caribbean this week than ever in the Middle East. But Israeli politicians will never have a clue as to why.

All this nonsense about "threatening Israel's existence" is an attempt to make Nazis out of anyone who has the temerity to tell the plain truth: Israel is an apartheid state. It is Israel that has decided to annex the West Bank and convert Gaza into a Muslim ghetto. Democracy means equal rights for all. Arabs on the West Bank and in Gaza are subject to Israel power but have no democratic say in the administration of that power. That's apartheid. And for those Zionists who want to blame the Palestinians for their fate by regurgitating your one-sided historical narrative, that's all irrevevant. As our Declaratioon of Independence says, liberty is an "inalienable right" i.e. there is NO EXCUSE for taking it away.

State Comptroler also said that hasbara in arabic should be a pr tool . The mistake to not commit is to keep in mind that mohamedanism , Islamist can compromise, secular arab nationalism and/or pan-arab nationalism doen't compromise neither . Israel under Peres understand only Turkish (for a $190M uav reason , even if Erdogan Islamist party took over Turkia thru democratic tactics), The same Peres that brought top Israelis business tycoons to invest in the Nazaret arab sector and disregard the Nazaret jewish sector .

You said: "If Israel shows that it is truly an independent state, then others will realize that it`s futile to try to "pressure" Israel." Mow change "Israel" to "Iran" and say that to all your friends. "If Iran shows that it is truly an independent state, then others will realize that it`s futile to try to "pressure" Iran." Go on. Fairs fair. Unless you are a hypocrite that is. See how silly it sounds. All countries have to live with international neighbors friends and foes. If we disagree with what a country does, then we can say so. Would you have said that it is alright for the Rewanda genocide to proceed as we shouldn't be pressuring them? We disagree with your treatment of Palestinians and the indescriminate killing undertaken by the IDF of Palestinian women and children. We will work to try to convince you to change your ways. And if that includes boycotts, then so be it.

The self-delusion is that it is not Israel's continuing occupation of the WB and East-Jerusalem that drives calls for boycotts and isolation but sheer anti-Semitism and hate for Israel an sich. More diplomats, PR docters, spinners and talkers will not help. It is the occupation, stupid!

that foreign troops have no right to be in Afganistan , in Iraq , in Quatar , in Saudia ...in any moslem countries . even when such foreign troops presence is at the request of the moslems rulers who fear their islamist enemies . Example : Everyone knows Quatar-Al Jazeera anti-western laws and values propaganda, and yet USAF could have no base in Quatar without Quatar rulers approval . On the other hand , if for example hamas is a terrorist organisation , then how come code pink is not prosecuted for aiding such terror entity (refering to Galloway convoy). Just cause code pink gave money to Hussein presidential campaign dosen't immune code pink from prosecution for aiding terror entity. As for Goldstone , he fabricated such report at the request of OIC-Arab League who also contribute to UNHRC-Geneva budget . OIC-Arab League want Sharia principles to prevail over Int'l Law of warfare also called humanitarian law . It is a war crime to not fight evil , It is a crime to teach and incite evil (mohamedanism) to kids .

...become angry with the Article.

Wow, replace enemy HQ with centres of delegitimation, as it says on Reut's website, and so soon you get a new enemy to keep up a thought of line that only is centred around military reasoning, preserving this country's military elite predominant position. Maybe a brief look on Clausewitz could clarify on issues like the primacy of politics, which Israel is so dearly missing. Strategy involves politics as a matter of thinking in alternatives, which is what seems to be out of scope for persons like you and your customers. It seems for persons like you war is not a continuation of politics with other means, but rather politics is a continuation of war with other means.

Short of total military defeat or compleat economic colapse nothing else threaten Israeli existence.

so blind. No leaders in the West are trying to delegitimize Israel. Many, however, feel that Israel's policies in conquered territories, its adamant refusal (under the current government - the real problem) to do the right thing for the millions of Palestinians living in misery in no man's land and its casual use of extreme military force on terrorists (OK) and anyone who happens to be near them (not OK)is unacceptable. Most people holding these views also feel that the actions of Hezbollah and Hamas are absolutely despicable. How can you believe that PR campaigns will help? The problem is that you are doing the wrong things. Do you think more money for Netanyahu and his hatchet man, Lieberman, to alienate the entire world will help? How can you not see that fair division of territory and assured demilitarization of Hamas is the smartest approach? How can you not see what so many see in this horrible government of yours?

is based on falsehood , on confusion and is promoted by dhimmedias . How many times have Haaretz staff been confronted in a court of law for their false allegations . Yet Haaretz keeps on with such falsehood , confusion, unfounded allegations .

if haaretz had posted my previous post then that will explain all, you are a very small minority that think this way.

Enough with the settlements, we should negotiate fairly with the Palestinians. We should show to the world that we are serious and we want peace, and even if we don't reach peace at least we are trying. The settlers are dangerous, they are fanatics and somebody has to stop them.

Israel's own actions - the continuing theft of land, the apartheid in the West Bank, the disproportionate slaughter of civilians and infrastructure in Lebanon and Gaza, the casual racism of its citizens seen on the news and in film -- are the problem. It's too late for the kind of public relations efforts (that's what they are) advocated in this article. Israel needs to start behaving in a way that is not offensive to the rest of the world if it wants to remain 'legitimate'.

"For once Haaretz recognizes a problem and suggests a solution, iso just deligitimizing Israel." Haaretz is not deligitimizing Israel, Israel is doing it all by itself... and more the pity that the solution is thought to be more propaganda of its failing policies.

The best example of this would be the treatment of the people of Gaza. Israeli sources have estimated Hamas membership at between ten and fifty thousand in Gaza. Using the larger figure, that is only about four percent of the popukation. Most of the Gazans just try to live their lives in spite of the hardships placed upon them by Israel. During the Gaza op, Israel destroyed much of Gaza and killed hundreds of innocent civilians. Most nations, including America would move to help repair the damage they caused and try to reach out to their victims. Israel, on the other hand, treats all Gazans as "terrorists". Not only does Israel not help fix the problems they caused for the innocents, they take steps to make it worse. This single aspect, one of many, is enough to completely delegitimize Israel in the eyes of the world. It is not how a civilized nation acts, and certainly not one that styles itself a western style democracy.

"..develop and sustain personal connections with the entire elite in business, politics, arts and culture, science and academia." Hasn't that been the long standing Israeli strategy? Personally I find it chilling. Cunningly influencing the world to overlook behaviour that cannot ever knowingly be accepted. Here's another option. Stop settlement building and withdraw to a defined Israeli state. Allow Palestinians to live with dignity and afford them these people basic human rights. Influence through the "entire elite in business, politics, arts and culture, science and academia" may work for a while (it has done to this point), but in the long run it cannot be sustained. It will be greatly resented, as people are beginning to wake up to already. I can only imagine the reaction if the shoe was on the other foot and it was proposed to infiltrate all layers of Israeli culture. It may be treason.

It is not Israel's existence that is the problem, but its claim over the West bank that the rest of the world finds so offensive. That and the siege of Gaza. What is so hard to understand about that?

...only by blithely ignoring those pesky UN resolutions that remind the author that 'territory acquired by war is inadmissible' is it possible to say Israel is "secure" - and that is a real stretch because this author assumes those borders are the real borders. Perhaps Gidi Grinstein should have provided the map with his story that bears out what he calls the borders of Israel by 1967? Because I am thinking such a map he could provide would neither be official nor legal and that really kind of renders the whole premise of the article as meaningless as it is untrue.

Israel's condition has always been dependent on its European and US relations. It shares this dependence with every small country - only the 'protectors' may differ. Even medium sized countries like Poland, Germany are in this situation. Israel must protect itself - but how? Grinstein's analysis identifies the problem as a limited spatial (few 'metropolises') and communication (propogated) issue. Now his ingenious strategy: 'isolate' the 'delegitimizers' through personal contacts with the entire elite of Western countries. That's all. Wow! If this is the intellectual depths of Israel's defenders, it does not have to worry about its enemies.

They are too unsophisticated to run Israeli's foreign policy and improve its image. First thing that has to be done is to reform Israel's ridiculous electoral system which allows incompetents like Lieberman to be Foreign Minister and Perez to be Defence Minister. They have caused and will continue to cause great damage to Israel.

Ramp up Israel`s propaganda and make more enemies. I don't think the article mentioned propaganda. I think it states that Israel's case should be made more clearly in some circles. If, by propaganda, you refer to false information - the pro-Pal "academics" are far more guilty of that. Increase the power of AIPAC and its influence on the US congress Again, nothing in the article about AIPAC. Incidentally, AIPAC's power has decreased due to competition from J Street - to which you can make a donation. Continue to avoid the truths in Gaza, Since Mexico has a better claim on Arizona than Gaza has on Sderot, why don't we try a thought experiment: suppose the Mexican government tried firing missiles into Southern Cal and Arizona? What would the US do? deny having nuclear weapons Israel does not deny nuclear weapons capability. An interesting side note, is that if Israel does have nuclear weapons, it avoided using them in 1973 despite multi-border attack. Can the US say that?

Continue "diplomacy?" like deputy FM with Turkey envoy!

Like George Bush, Gidi Grinstein ignores this simple truth. No amount of PR is going to change that fact. The reality that Israelis have to face is they live on earth and if they want to continue to live on earth they are going to have to conform to the expectations of the rest of the people on the earth. They may not like it, but if they want to survive in the long term, they will have to get along with everyone else. Maybe it is time for Israelis to realize that real power can **NOT** be acquired at the barrel of a gun. So yes Israel is becoming delegitimized, but it is its own actions that are causing that, therefor, it needs to change is actions (maybe letting Palestinians live their lives in their own state might help). Israel's own actions will cause its downfall.

Man of uncompromising principle or useful idiot to Israel's enemies?

If Israel shows that it is truly an independent state, then others will realize that it's futile to try to "pressure" Israel.

For once Haaretz recognizes a problem and suggests a solution, iso just deligitimizing Israel.

Congratulations to Gidi Grinstein, who has put it with impressive clarity and provided an outline for containing it. Bravo.

Right! Ramp up Israel's propaganda and make more enemies. Increase the power of AIPAC and its influence on the US congress and continue to make enemies, even in the US. Continue to avoid the truths in Gaza, deny having nuclear weapons, continue the settlements and the occupation and continue to make enemies. No one dislikes Israel because it it Jewish; they dislike it because of its actions.

International Law... or dissing the UN Charter....ignoring UNSC resolutions.....illegally acquiring other folk's territory. None so blind as those who do not want to see... The article is an insult to people's intelligence.

Author says: "But the delegitimization effort would continue even if Israel were to sign a comprehensive peace treaty with the PLO". That is a paranoid fantasy. There will always be enemies of anyone, including Israel. But... A comprehensive and fair settlement of Palestinian economic and security concerns would effectively end the growing isolation of Israel. The most likely solutions would only buy Israel another decade or two, but they are better than the alternatives.