With Mideast peace, settlers may become Jewish Palestinians
A solution allowing settlers to remain under PA rule can relieve Israel of dealing with an evacuation.
By Shaul Arieli Tags: Middle East peace Israel news West Bank Israel settlersOne of the most difficult issues to be faced in the negotiations between us and the Palestinians relates to the number of settlers who are supposed to be evacuated. The number stands at between 110,000, according to Mahmoud Abbas's suggestion, and the 70,000 that Ehud Barak and Ehud Olmert have suggested. The total number of Israelis living across the Green Line is currently half a million.
Recently, the Palestinian leadership has reiterated its readiness to consider compromises with regard to leaving Israelis under Palestinian sovereignty, and from time to time similar declarations can be heard from the settlers' leadership. However, before we happily adopt this solution, it is worthwhile to examine it closely.
In 1947, when a UN commission determined the partition borders, it left behind some 10,000 Jews in the planned Arab state. It saw in their presence, just as in the presence of an Arab minority in the Jewish state, a kind of guarantee that would ensure cooperation between the new states. And indeed, the presence of a Jewish minority in Palestine will serve as a challenge to both states and will oblige them to relate to questions of civic equality, cultural autonomy and participation in government. However, the question whether this challenge will turn into a threat to stability is dependent on the extent to which the minorities internalize their status as such.
A solution whereby the settlers remain under Palestinian government will relieve Israel of having to deal with their evacuation, but it is likely to undermine Israel's stance with regard to territorial exchanges. The lack of a clear connection between Israel's territorial position and the issues of security, water and infrastructures, and its apprehension about the threat of an evacuation, make it possible for the Palestinians, if they adopt the solution of Israelis remaining there, to demand more vehemently that the "fingers" of settlement that push deep into their territory, like Ariel and Kedumim, be cut back.
A solution that leaves settlers in Palestinian territory will necessitate relating to the scope of the area including 96 settlements that is not included in Israel's territorial demands, or to the 107 that are outside the Palestinian proposal. Their joint area covers between 83,000 and 114,000 dunams, which constitute 1.5 to two percent of the area of the West Bank, according to the respective positions of the sides. Will this fact generate a Palestinian demand that, in addition to territorial exchanges, Israel must allocate an area on an identical scale for the benefit of new communities for its Arab minority?
The sides will not be able to evade dealing also with the status of these lands. Since 1967 and to this day - despite rulings by the High Court of Justice which barred it - Israel has continued to build settlements and outposts on private land. They today constitute some 40 percent of the lands of the settlements that lie east of the separation fence. Both Israel and Palestine will be obliged to show great generosity toward the owners of these lands, so that they will be willing to accept the settlers as their neighbors.
In order to make this solution more feasible, steps must be taken to block the continued intensification of its disadvantages. First, Israel must cease expanding the settlements that lie outside the line of its positions. The permission granted "during the year of freeze" for some 1,500 new housing units east of the fence, and the granting of national priority status to isolated settlements, are not the way to do this. On the other hand, stopping the "laundering" and the evacuation of unauthorized outposts - of which, according to Peace Now figures, approximately 84 are located either completely or partly on private land - can reduce the private lands problem.
Palestine and Israel can exist with a Jewish and Arab minority in their midst. The establishment of a Palestinian state will ensure, firstly, that the Palestinians will be able to realize their right to self-determination outside the borders of Israel, and secondly, that those who do not grow accustomed to being a minority will always be able to emigrate to the homeland of their nation that lies across the border.
The writer is a member of the board of directors of the Council for Peace and Security.
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Given the racist remarks made here and on other Jewish publication's talkbalk sections, not a single Jew should EVER again complain about "racism" in countries outside of Israel. The B'Nai Brith continues to fault countries like Canada and the USA as having too many antisemitic episodes, but judging by the general consensus on this board and others, it is Jews who are the most antisemitic (remember, "arabs" are semite peoples as well). Oh wait, there is no "people" called the Jewish People because there are as many colours of the rainbow in Judaism as there is in any other religion on the planet!
E: "Just conceiving of not permitting Jews to reside in parts of the Land, or any other land, only because they are Jews is by definition a form of racism, anti-Jewish racism at that." Every single one of these "settlers" is an ISRAELI citizen, Eitan, and it's that citizenship - and that alone - that makes their presence inside Israeli-occupied territory illegal. That every single one of them is chosen *by* the ISRAELI govt along an ethnic divide is neither the concern nor the fault of the Palestinians i.e. the only party that is showing an ethnic intolerance is the govt of Israel. After all, it is the govt of Israel who has decided that its policy of Israeli colonial expansionism is open only to those of its citizenry who are "Jews". Nobody else forced that decision upon them, indeed, nobody else agrees with that decision at all. Not even the Americans.
The Syrian shelled in 1965 and 1966 repeatedly the Hulah Valley. This valley was since 1948 integral part of Israel and clearly outside the demilitarized zones. (http://www.passia.org - Israel-Syria, demilitarized zones) Why do you try to support your thesis with quotes out of context without a basic understanding of reality?
First a Palestinian State then a civil war to create the Free Jewish State of Judea. It could work.
Mr. Tal asked, ''So all the kibbutzim wanted was land?'' And General Dayan answered: ''I'm not saying that. Of course they wanted the Syrians to get out of their face. They suffered a lot because of the Syrians. Look, as I said before, they were sitting in the kibbutzim and they worked the land and had kids and lived there and wanted to live there. The Syrians across from them were soldiers who fired at them, and of course they didn't like it." Those who lived in the northern kibbutzim reputiated Dayan's words reported 10 years later in a bizarre interview by an obscure journalist that found its way into the NY Times. The previous quotations have nothing to do with reality and those who lived through the Syrian bombardment. Even Dayan retracts them in the very same interview. The former Syrian military position on the heights oppositie Shamir is still clearly visible from inside the perimeter fence of the kibbutz.
and see for yourself as JEWS live in Iran.
Settlers must be given to the New Palestinians'State,and should NEVER received aids to emigrate back. If they do they should then buy their ENTRY. They choosed to be on THE PROMISED Lands, now that they are they should become Jewish Palestinians, at least they will be where have been WANTED TO BE for so long. Our Jewish State will then progress without some fanatical influences. Majority of us will say " good riddence" and most of all NO COMPENSATION, left & right
I would suggest another approach based on this most fair of ideas. Allow Jews in Palestine and Arabs in Israel to declare themselves citizens of Israel and Palestine respectively. Thus Jews in Palestine would still be considered citizens of Israel and permanent residents of Palestine. A similar arrangement would hold for Arabs in Israel. They could not vote in the nation where they reside, but rather only in the nation whose citizenship they hold. No dual citizenship in these cases would be allowed. This insures they have rights to their land and property, but do not endanger the demographic make-up of their local nation-state. Victor.....The dogs bark but the caravan keeps on moving!
germans removed from sudeten land are a good exasmple of removing a hostile population. tamils removed in sri lanka more recently. the creation of pakistan and bangladesh potty you need help
In Moshe Dyan,s book. Here read ans see why they got shot at. "Israelis with police protection used to go into the demilitarized zone with tractors and equipment. After the Syrians responded by shooting, Israel would retaliate with military force.[71] This was also mentioned by Moshe Dayan. In an interview from 1976, published in 1997, Dayan has said: "Look, it's possible to talk in terms of 'the Syrians are bastards, you have to get them, and this is the right time,' and other such talk, but that is not policy, You don't strike at the enemy because he is a bastard, but because he threatens you. And the Syrians, on the fourth day of the war, were not a threat to us." "After all, I know how at least 80 percent of the clashes there started. In my opinion, more than 80 percent, but let's talk about 80 percent. It went this way: We would send a tractor to plow some area where it wasn't possible to do anything, in the demilitarized area, and knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot. If they didn't shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance farther, until in the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot. And then we would use artillery and later the air force also, and that's how it was." "The kibbutzim there saw land that was good for agriculture," "And you must remember, this was a time in which agricultural land was considered the most important and valuable thing."
I have a better solution. Why don't we transfer all arabs that are living in israel to palestinians territories and all settlers to israeli proper. That way we won't have do deal with minorities. Let the arabs then enjoy in their own palestinian land.
Your presence in occupied Syria is illegal, not because you are a Jew but because you are an Israeli. Israel has a legal obligation not to move its citizens into an occupied area, GC4. You know all this but persist in your whining about racism because you see it as your contribution to Israeli propaganda.
Will the author please present some historic examples of a Jewish minority in an Arab country being treated as full citizens with rights? Jews from the Arab world were either prosecuted, or tolerated as third-class citizens. We can see from the reaction to the Israel Heritage list that an Arab state on the West Bank will not tolerate the practice of Judaism. What makes one think they will tolerate Jews?
Prior to 1948, the term ?Palestinian? applied to Jews only. Arabs were Syrians, Yemenites, etc., depending on their family?s origin. Any organization in pre-state Israel with the word Palestine or Palestinian in it was Jewish. For example, there was The Palestinian Post (now Jerusalem Post), a Jewish newspaper. There was the Palestinian Symphony Orchestra (all Jews). Jews dropped the colonial identification of Palestinian when Israel declared itself an independent state. Arabs did not pick up the term until the 1960?s.
Stand on Mitzpe LeShalom and look down beyond your sandals and you will see the Kibbutz En Gev that was under constant barrage by Syrian gunners before Israel captured the Golan Heights. My own relative, a founding member of Kibbutz Shamir, would jump off his tractor and hide behind the wheel when the bullets got close. My cousin described how she crawled to the bomb shelter after a Syrian shell destroyed the two attached homes to her parents? house. Israelis have not forgotten that an entire generation of Israeli children born in the North between 1948 and 1967 were called "Bomb shelter children". Israelis will never give up the Golan for any promises of "peace". With all of your hateful meaningless posts, what do you really know about our nation or its people?
"Just conceiving of not permitting Jews to reside in parts of theLand, or any other land, only because they are Jews is by definition a form of racism, anti-Jewish racism at that. Yet, people who call themselves "progressives" are the ones in the forefront of demanding that Jews, only because they are Jewish, may not reside in certain towns, villages, even city neighborhoods." eitan in occupied Syria Eitan, you might want to look at the legislation regarding non-Jewish tenure of JNF 'aquired' land,on which were built Israel's towns and villages. Or are Jews exempt from any possibility of being racist?
live someplace only because they are Jewish. The Arabs, backed up by so-called liberals and progressives have speer headed this form of racism, in this thread included.
You just not concidering one small detail in your article, the palestinians want a state completly free of jews, where by the law to be writen, no jews can be allowed in it.
Will they live under the same conditions the Palestinians live inside Israel?
Why indeed should any Jew not be able to live where they choose in Israel? Why should any Jew move to make way for more illegal palestinians? Israel should not cede another inch to the Pals and have that same land become another launching pad of rockets or worse, to be fired upon Israel. no way. no how, not gonna happen.
Great news, let the settlers stay where they are and give them a Palestinian passport. Now they can have a taste of their own medicine. Im sure the Palestinian authorities will know how to deal with them !
"Just conceiving of not permitting Jews to reside in parts of theLand, or any other land, only because they are Jews is by definition a form of racism, anti-Jewish racism at that. Yet, people who call themselves "progressives" are the ones in the forefront of demanding that Jews, only because they are Jewish, may not reside in certain towns, villages, even city neighborhoods." eitan in occupied Syria It has nothing to do with being Jewish--my illegal settler friend. It has to do with being citizens of the Occupying power---vis a vis ---Israel. As Israelis they are forbidden to live in the territory occupied by the state they are citizens of. Very simple really --if you are a law abiding individual and are not some squatter living on stolen land. Incidentally--Arab Israeli,s are also forbidden to move to Occupied teritory---not that Israel allows them to live in the racist Jewish illegal settlements. Dont invoke racism---you are the epitomy of such policies.
"Just conceiving of not permitting Jews to reside in parts of theLand, or any other land, only because they are Jews is by definition a form of racism, anti-Jewish racism at that. Yet, people who call themselves "progressives" are the ones in the forefront of demanding that Jews, only because they are Jewish, may not reside in certain towns, villages, even city neighborhoods." eitan in occupied Syria It has nothing to do with being Jewish--my illegal settler friend. It has to do with being citizens of the Occupying power---vis a vis ---Israel. As Israelis they are forbidden to live in the territory occupied by the state they are citizens of. Very simple really --if you are a law abiding individual and are not some squatter living on stolen land. Incidentally--Arab Israeli,s are also forbidden to move to Occupied teritory---not that Israel allows them to live in the racist Jewish illegal settlements. Dont invoke racism---you are the epitomy of such policies.
Why not???? If Israel and Palestine have to exist side by side as democratic states acceptable to the standards of civilized world, they must be able to integrate other religions. If Moslems and Jews refuse that option, it means they care more for national identity than religion. So religion cannot be used as the excuse. Both Islam and Judaism are practices which can adapt to any democratic national context. Palestinian Jews have existed before the state of Israel, under Ottoman, and British rule. Judaism has proven it can develop in that context. I think this solution can provide for a chance to see whether both parties have it in them to "treat the other as thyself".
Iran
As helenist jews are the major fatalities between the victims of the chemicals bombs from Syria.
They don't want peace. Get it? They want Israel. Get it? Now go with it.
It would be nice to think of a place where Arabs and Jews could live together in peace and harmony. But first please read what the PA leaders have said in the past: No Jews will be allowed to live in their "new" Palestine.
Minorities in two states: But they have to do intercultural work in the local politics to live in peace togetheron the long run. Wolfgang, House of King David, calif, of the family Avicenna (Ibn Sina) and Maimonide, Hegel etc
Who gets to do "Cast Lead II, the sequel"? The Russians are mostly homos and lesbians... Is the choice obvious to anyone else? (Hint: its not "China"). We could create more tension on the West Bank, using Druze militants from Lebanon as a sort of "proxy". Their leader has to be sounded out, and someone has to make a cash offer... Lots of things left to be worked out, like who is in charge of hiring "extras" (I need a job...), but it could be a blast.
Palestinians live in a totalitarian regime with no human rights because Israel brought in a terrorist PLO to become the government of the PA. None of the people there are happy to live under such a rule. The real question is why can't the present situation of Israelis having most of the rights of Israeli citizens not only continue but be expanded to give Israeli citizens living in Judea and Samaria the same full rights that other Israeli citizens have.
Morrocco. Next question please.
Land, or any other land, only because they are Jews is by definition a form of racism, anti-Jewish racism at that. Yet, people who call themselves "progressives" are the ones in the forefront of demanding that Jews, only because they are Jewish, may not reside in certain towns, villages, even city neighborhoods.
Over a million Palestinians, who later became full Israeli citizens, were incorporated into the State of Israel when the Arabs lost the 1948 war. Galilee is largely Palestinian and should be the nucleus of a normal functioning traditionally-religious but democratic state for Christians and Moslems. Nazareth & Um elFahm and other such cities should work together with nearby West Bank Palestinian towns and PA Prime Minister Salem Fayyad to establish areas where the rule of law holds sway, independent judiciary and media etc, with support from the EU and the US. Eventually most of the West Bank can be included. And the Jews and Jewish holy sites, and the settlements, will be part of Israel. If there is will for peace, this can be a reality, with relatively open borders and convenient transit roads/tunnels, free visitor access, but separate national regions, just as with many countries in Europe (even outside the EU).
What happened to the 10,00 Jews who were to be in the territories given to the Arabs?
No good, given the background of the settlers it would not take more than a year for them to be in conflict with the Palestinian state and Israel would be bound to violently intervene.
A palsettlement in heart of Tel-Aviv ,the Shenkin Street should be evacuated though,by force if necessary.
Show me one example of an Arab country where Jews are treated as equals. This is even more difficult because most of the 1 million Jews who lived in Arab lands were ethnically cleansed.
They would just divert their attention to all of the other "Ancient Homelands Since Time Immemorial" where Infidels still have the nerve to resist them. Maybe they focus on India, or Cyprus or The Ivory Coast. Peace will not happen, not in this lifetime, nor the next, nor the next after that, not while the Jihad still has breath.
You're right; it would be a simple move to deport all gentiles to another country. Similarly, in 1492 it was a simple move for Spain to deport all its Jews to other countries. How is that different from your plan? If it was wrong for Spain, why is it right for Israel?
your scheme has so many holes its called netting ! its a simple move the arabs to arab palestine now known as jordan !
One-state solution all the way. Israel won't compromise until it's too late.
Oh Shaul ! The sweet dreamer that you are !!!