Watch out for the Goldstoners

Shavit`s commentary is the most weird article I have ever read in Haaretz for a long time. He blames the messenger and closes his eyes to the violations against international law and human rights committed by the Israeli army. But that is not enough: He puts the blame of a future war on the so called "Goldstoners". What he forgets is that Israel started all the wars in the Middle East. He just should read Zeev Maoz "Defending the Holy Land". Things are not that simple like Shavit makes us to believe. The responsibility lies only on the Israeli side. The 42 year old occupation and colonisation of Palestinian land must be ended. After that, Israel will be recognised by the Arab countries and their Palestinian neighbors and can live in peace and security.

It would be nice if someone over there FINALLY takes responsibility for Israel's actions...and stop blaming others. Goldstoners-- Aren't destroying Israel. ISRAEL is destroying Israel! No Crimes Means No Goldstoners-- If you didn't have INTENTIONAL crimes committed, there would be no Goldstone report. However: Since that is only part of the problem...when it comes to Israel...there would probably be a report...ON SOMETHING ELSE (like settlements, etc.). One Violation After Another-- Israel commits one violation after another. With this kind of record/history: You MUST blame YOURSELVES...since there is GREAT evidence...that things like this (and other)...are repeated OVER AND OVER again/have gone on a long time! Self-Review/Self-Correction-- Israelis should engage in more, REAL, PROPER, EFFECTIVE self-review and self-correction! The "theater" over there...is NOT entertaining "in the least."

if the author think the gaza war strengthened the so called moderates in palestine he is truly out of touch or forcing a conclusion that does not exist just to make his point. does he even know what's going on with the goldstone report? did he follow the news of the denunciations the PNA got right when the war started? the right wing can't think objectively since violence is an end, not means.

You said something about Israel's poor standing in the world. Which world do you mean? The one where China has slaughtered tens of thousands of Tibetans? Or Russia does the same to Chechnyans? Sri Lanka kills 7,000 civilians fighting Tamils? Or where Saudi Arabia brutally oppresses women? Or Guinea fires and kills 150+ civilians? Or Zimbabwe causes the deaths of thousands? Or countless others? This world? I'll tell you the world you mean. It is the one that hates Jews, hates Israel and treats it as no other nation on earth is treated. Examined, vilified, criticized, delegitimized, where the UN Human Rights counsel passes dozens of resolutions against Israel while ignoring Sudan, Burma and so many more that REALLY target civilians for death. This world hates Israel and JEWS so much that it welcomes a nation (Iran) that both denies the holocaust but clearly states its intention to wipe out millions of Jew in Israel. Yes, I guess you endorse this "world" -- congrats !!!

So, it seems shavit lumps all those opposed to raining phosphorous bombs on children, hospitals and schools into the "Goldstoners" clan. Members of which can be jewish or otherwise, but common to all is a willingness to name war crimes for what they are - criminal. I note with interest that, like all other partisan critics, shavit fails to address or refute specific criticisms the report levels against Israel, hiding instead behind the "one sidedness" mantle Israel is so fond of when caught red handed. That makes it a blogger's rant, not an article for Haaretz. The reason why Israel does not wish to mount an investigation of ugly acts commited by its soldiers is clear - these were authorized from above, so an investigation would hopelessly incriminate the IDF top brass, as well as the political eschelon. And since the IDF is composed of citizens, it is the citizens of Israel - the 92% who approved of atrocities and massacres against locked up prisoners - who are guilty.

Zionists like to put people in neat, orderly categories. The "Goldstoner" category is just one more artificial, zionist-created niche into which can be dumped a new hybrid variety of 'antisemite.' The Goldstone report simply acknowledges a fact on the ground, viz. Isralis went into Gaza and killed a lot of innocent women and children unnecessarily. But the recognition of this fact is inimical to Israel. It throws her arguably corrupt leaders into an even worse light. It damages her already suspect moral integrity, almost beyond repair. It gives Israelis an even worse name in the than they already have. It further wounds their standing and reputation in the world. And since the report was submitted by a jew, one of their own, it becomes an intolerable assault from within which they must repudiate at all costs. To point out in an official UN report that innocent men, women and children were killed by the IDF is an antisemitic act. It's something which only "Goldstoners" do.

"Arab Sudan has perpetrated genocide on the native Black people" (J. Schwartz) The scoundrel's argument: If other countries have behaved like damned bastards, why aren't we allowed too? Because, blockhead, Europe has no desire to subject, one day, our prime minister to the same fate it inflicted on Slovodan Milosevic.

"If my abhorrence of what Israel did, in my book on a par with what the Germans did in Warsaw in 1944, makes me a Goldstoner then I am proud to be one." OK, you "proud Goldstoner" - you obviously have no idea what are u talking about. Maybe you should start to study what the German policy of "verbrannte Erde" was all about before making such a stupid comparison. Due to your wrath, you have completely lost a sense of justice and truth and balance - but I guess you noticed that yourself.

I don't disagree with Shavit that Israel has the right to defend itself and even that military action in Gaza was justified under the circumstances. But was all of that killing and destruction really necessary to achieve the declared strategic objectives of the war, the neutralization of rocket attacks on Israel? This is what I would like to know, and have investigated, but since the discourse is controlled by the likes of Shavit on one side, and the Palestinians on the other, we'll never know and an unnecessarily large number of people with die, and yes, they are real people and one can not just wave away this killing and destruction with the wave of a pen, the word "Bitakhon," (security) and the fact that they are Arabs.

Rather than reading the report and engaging in what it says, Shavit attacks Goldstone personally and presumes to know what intentions and beliefs are beating in his heart. He ignores the fact that Hamas also condemned the report, which means that it certainly is not "biased" and more evenhanded than he would like to believe. He ignores that fact that Israel refused to participate in its research which indicates to many that it may have something to hide. Had Israel participate with the investigators, it would have been better able to present its own point-of-view and would have had more influence on its conclusions. This says to many people that Israel really can not explain its actions in an objective manner which is not propaganda.

' It will be the war brought upon us by the Goldstone report, Judge Goldstone and his Goldstoner followers. ' Actually, the Goldstone Report was brought upon you by your behavior in Gaza. This is like the criminal complaining about all the attention he's getting from the police.

For a law to be responsible, it needs to be applied equally. The Goldstone report does not apply so called "international law" equally. In fact, it picks on Israel, and only Israel, of all nations in the world, for condemnation, devoting all but a few scant words to Hamas' war crimes. Where is the Goldstone report on China/Tibet? Russia/China? Sri Lanka/Tamils? and many many others with far more deaths than Gaza/Israel. Forget the fact that I think Israel has no choice to end the rocket fire. The fact that the world only cares when Israel fires makes these "international laws" meaningless and this report irresponsible. If there was some fairness, then maybe the report would be worth listening to.

Shavit is right about deterrence. There is no power in the middle east to deter Israel, so Israel has no strong incentive to make peace. The Goldstone report is deterrence - that's why Israel hates it.

this mud-slinging reflex everytime someone brings credible, well-reasoned, and *responsible* criticism towards Israeli policies has got to stop. It'll only backfire.

This is a plea for regular acts of genocide on the part of a rogue regime in order to "stabilise" the situation in the Middle East. This is insane stuff, racist and rabble-rousing, yet there are those who still describe Shavit as "a leftist"!

That he can so easily condone mass slaughter of people simply because they are Arab. Which is what Israel did last January. I'll bet Shavit hasn't read the Goldstone report.

I see. Now those of us who support international law finally have a name. I'm glad to know that. As a human being, and as a Jew, I find the author's justification of the murder of defenseless people to be pretty disgusting. Please refrain from calling Israel the "Jewish" state. Israeli policies are not "Jewish" policies. Those of you who claim otherwise, and who therefore suggest that Israeli crimes are "Jewish" crimes, are the real anti-Semites.

"It is already clear what the next war's name will be - the Goldstone War. It will be the war brought upon us by the Goldstone report." Blaming a war on truth! What has happened to Israel?

This article could be summarized in once single sentence: The Spartan Jews need constant wars to keep their neighbors at bay. This is goes the core of the Israeli/Jewish psyche post the Holocaust: The one who thinks others understands force, it is he himself who understand only force. There is fundamental political problems which faces Israel with its neighbors, you keep on burying your head in the sand and thinking Arabs hate you because you are Jewish is highest of ignorance. The middle east is no Europe.

Was reading a book called Blink by Malcold Gladwell, where some interesting points were put forward. The book discuss a war exercise that was to simulate a rogue Middle East Dictator in the Persian Gulf and how the USA should take it over. There was Blue Team, the USA and Red Team, the Dictator who was headed by a distinguished Marine, Paul Van Riper. The idea behind the challenge was: "In wake of Desert Storm, the Pentagon becaome conivinced that that kind of war, (head to head armies on battlefield) would soon be an anachronism. Conflict in the future would be diffuse and take place in cities as often as on battlefields, fueled by ideas as much as weapons...the decisive factor is how you take apart your adversary's system... War making capability." Amazing how the USA has adopted this action in Iraq and yet Goldstones report is still stuck in Desert Storm. TBC...

Thankyou for your kind words. I am a Goldstoner because I object to the Slaughter of the Children during Operation Cast Lead. If that makes me a terrorist supporter then so be it. I can even live with being called anti semitic. Because at the end of the day, I am a Goldstoner, someone who doesn't support the killing of innocent civilians, the bombing iof schools and hospitals and the attempt by Israel to burn industrial quantities of Gazans alive using white phosporous.

for fraudulent and false repost. He deserves punisment for distortion of true event. He needs go to TRIBUNAL in HAAGA not Israel.

A crucial question is what gives rise to the Goldstoners. I believe that the 4 apologies for Israel that Shavit made in this article, regularly used by Israel?s enemies to demonize her, contribute significantly to the Goldstoners. One was confessing to a "brutal war" when a "brutal" war would have killed thousands, not a thousand plus, most of whom were terrorists. Another was feeding the Israel haters in referring to Israel?s ?arrogance?. A third is the apologizing for ?occupation? ? which is used to justify Palestinian terrorism, when in fact Israel was was forced to administer the territories by Arab intransigence. And the fourth is admitting Israeli guilt for ?settlements?, when ?settlements? have proven to have been a bulwark against Palestinian terrorism, as their removal from Gaza, demonstrated.

"...do not achieve military victory or a breakthrough in the peace process..." "...strong-arm balance that subddues the conflict and ensures calm for a few years..." This is not good governance. It has no long term goals/objectives... What's with the culture: that thinks everyone wants to isolate, condemn and destroy Israel? "Earth to Israel" no one wants to destroy...anyways you have the bomb!

Interesting and important analysis. Demonizing of one side in the Israel-Palestine conflict - which ever side that may be - only adds fuel to the fire. Goldstone's biased report which ignores the realities of the new terror war based on suicide and the desire to have the enemy kill as many of ones countrymen as possible for PR purposes. The rules of war have changed, and so should "the rules of war" Goldstone should have pointed this out, and left the UN and the international community to work out new rules, rather than to judge on the basis of old outdated realities. It is as if Israel was to held accountable for the Palestinians not using horses, knights in armour, and bows and arrows.

You support the Goldstone report because you support, and have always supported, terrorism against Israelis.

What a crock Swiss(Dino) writes. "Like every other nation in the world", he says. But what other nation in the world has been treated the same way as Israel? Certianly none when it comes to the UN. Certianly none when it comes to terrorism or its response to terrorism. Swiss(Dino), like Goldsone, labors under the self-serving self-deception that holds that by treating anyone whose policies result in harm to others the same, one can say that one is even-handed, and that one need not dwell on the reasons for such policies. E.g., Swiss(Dino) and Goldstone equate civilian deaths in Gaza with civilian death in Rawanda or Sudan because its inconvenient to sort out the mess created when terrorist shoot from behind civilians.

He had had a series of weak articles subjugating his intelligence to the Leftie agenda of his surroundingds ,but a good man can't be kept down for long

This is a fabulous article. I would only differ in one little point: With some exceptions, I don't think that the campaign against Israel has been an even continuum for (many) decades. It's basically surged in the last decade along with the terrorist onslaught in the wake of Camp David 2000.

in that I condemn the slaughter of the women and children in Gaza by Israel. In the guise of 'deterrence'. Fact is Israel decided for reasons of political expediency to attack a half starved defenceless population imprisoned in an area with the highest density of human beings on the planet and tried with Phosphorous to burn them alive. When that doidn't work they used tanks, mortars and machine guns on UN buildings they were informed civilians were sheltering. If my abhorrence of what Israel did, in my book on a par with what the Germans did in Warsaw in 1944, makes me a Goldstoner then I am proud to be one. Although it is a bit confusing because the stance I have made since the slaughter of the children has led to accusations of my being anti semitic. Which ids preferable to be honest. If Lieberman uses the phrase it should be seen as a badge of honour.

Ari, when you mention goldstone's double standard, you ought to have mentioned Sudan on the list. Arab Sudan has perpetrated genocide on the native Black people in southern Sudan since 1956, off & on. Millions were murdered. Swiss Dino & cummings, if Europe were serious about human rights, genocide, war crimes & such, then Sudan would have been condemned long ago, instead of being on the UN "human rights council"

... driven by a deep desire to isolate Israel, condemn it and destroy it'. There are no doubt a few extremist 'lefties' and Islamists who would wish that end. However, the principal concern for democratic countries lies with Israel's conduct of the war. It looks to have purposely ignored the Geneva Accords in order to carry out collective punishment of a civilian population. The report also lists many instances of at best gross misconduct. It is these things that concern the wider world, as they would with any conflict. Rather than worrying about its hands being tied in the future, Israel must address the political and military mindset that appears to hold Arab and civilian life so cheap.

....like any other nation on this planet. The "free pass" treatment Israel has enjoyed over the past decades, has clearly become THE main source for anti-Jewish sentiments/ conspiracy theories around the world. Therefore it can only be in the very best interest of the Jewish Diaspora to bring that "special treatment" to an end as soon as possible. The Goldstone report is a good start in that direction....