U.S. row shows Jerusalem is cornerstone of peace

A dog?a cat? what? Domesticate indeed. Obama and his administrastion should domesticate the Arab terrorists throughout the region where he went and bowed so very LOW and are the ones causing murder and mayham. Beginning with Saudi Atrabia the bigest trouble makers where the terrorists hailed from to KILL 3000+People in 9/11. I had not been here to read this post of yours. So,a bit late.In hopes it gets published and you see it.

Why is is it that a people who cause nothing but murder and mayhem, who were never interested in Israel or Jerusalem before the nation of Israel became a nation in 1948, are always offered more and more to placate their violence and murderous (almost daily) actions towards their Israeli neighbours! It`s like rewarding a spoilt child who throws a tantrum! Jerusalem is never mentioned in the quran, but is numerous times in the Bible, and it is quite clear that the land was given to the Jews for an everlasting, eternal covenant! In the diaspora they always knew that Almighty God would bring them back to their land in the last days! It is God`s land and He will give it to whom He chooses and that happens to be the Jewish people, probably because they faithfully documented and kept God`s word safe for the whole world! If pressure is put on the government of Israel to give up half of Jerusalem, that nation i.e the US will be under God`s wrath!! Not a good idea!!

Thank you to those who filled in my history on Israeli citizenship in East Jerusalem. The issue of citizenship is an evolving concept, after all Australia didn't offer citizenship to our aborigine population till 1967. As to recognition it is universally accepted that a law is not passed until all due process is complete. A vote from the US Congress is not in and of itself complete until the President passes it into law by signing it. In Australia we had a famous case of "Tax cuts being L. A. W, law" before an election only to have the legislation withdrawn unsigned by our Governor General after the election.

Clearly, the U.S. is only applying pressure to the state of Israel. The U.S. has lost it sense of evenhandness as a mediator. It is acting more like underhanded. Jesse Jackson's prediction that Obama would favor the muslim side has come true.

When Israel acquired all the of Jerusalem, Gaza,Golan in a defensive war by 5+armies it was a fait acompli and people should remember this important aspect. Also let us remember firstly:"TO THE VICTOR GO THE SPOIL" That aside when Israel vanquished all the Arabs who attacked it in 1967 on entering Jerusalem found it filthy and degraded when it was occupied under the Jordanians. Synagogues desecrated,tombstones used for LATRINES,the whole city in an abysmal state. And what of Jews before then?Not allowed to pray in their holiest site "THE KOTEL". And now? the three religions are able to worship freely thanks to the diligence of the IDF that keeps out the would be terrorists. The Christian visitors come without fear during their HOLY days,and when just to visit. The only ones who are barred are:The young Arabs who would cause death and mayham. The city is well preserved without any problems THANKS TO ISRAEL. Jerusalem is Israel UNDIVIDED HOLY CAPITAL

as is foretold in the bibles of the Jews and Christians in this way you will earn your nNobel prize and eternal honor. But if you side with the Arabs and Iranian Mullah and Turky's Islamists to drive the Jews from their homeland west of the Jordan you shall forever be cursed.

E: "There is nothing in the law that states That when Annexxed one must Annexx in WHole and not in part." SOVEREIGNTY is all-or-nothing i.e. you are either master of everything or you are playing a kindergarden game of "let's pretend". If you ANNEX territory then you are also ANNEXING the people who live on that territory because THE PEOPLE COME WITH THE TERRITORY. And, yes, there are laws that say that you can not separate the people from the territory. E: "So Israel can annexx East Jerusalem, " Unilaterally? No, it can not. E: "following a DEFENSIVE WAR," It makes no difference if it was a "defensive" war, an "offensive" war or a "whoops, I was hoping to sit this one out!" war. You Can Not Acquire Territory By War. E: "Israel did extend citizenship to people who lived there," You ANNEX the people when you ANNEX the territory i.e. no choice is given for EITHER action.

"Each religious group should be able to pray in peace without causing harm to the other" At present who tossess BROKEN UP CONCRETE CINDER BLOCKS FROM AN ELEVATED POSITION ON THE OTHER? And even when this happens, Men over 50 and Woman are still allowed to pray at their 3rd holiest site, you know the one that isn't listed in the Koran, the one that was built after Mohammed's death and therefore could never have been the Farthest Mosque as stated in the Koran as Mohammed DIED B4 it was built - FACT Or are you against the idea of Jews being able to pray at thier holiest site without being assaulted or possibly killed? In fact, if we were to compare and constrast religious tolerance in the Old City during the 19 years of Jordanian Rule and the current time of Israeli rule we might find that your point is absolute bullshit and just there to appease the muslim world at Israel's expense. hmm when was a religious site used as a garbage dump??? Now argue that

The prophet,Zechariah, in his writings[Chapter 12, verses 2-4]: writes "Behold, I (the Lord) will make Jerusalem a cup of staggering to all the peoples round about ... I (the Lord) will make Jerusalem a stone of burden for all the peoples; all that burden themselves with it shall be sore wounded; and all the nations of the earth shall be gathered together against it ... I will smite every[one who comes against Jerusalem] ... with bewilderment ... and madness ...". Are we there yet?

That when Annexxed one must Annexx in WHole and not in part. So Israel can annexx East Jerusalem, following a DEFENSIVE WAR, evidential by the breaking of the armstice by Eypt and Syria and the attack of Jordan who sided with Egypt and Syria who broke the Armstice which does what Johnboy? Israel did extend citizenship to people who lived there, yes they had to file forms and prove it, there can exist protocols in order to gain citizenship, its not like Israel must walk door to door. If i am not mistaken there was a man named Yassir Arafat, who convinced many not to accept citizenship, israel sholdn't be forced to pay the costs of a decision that was influenced by a Palestinian leader. What is needed for annexation? Sovereignty - Check extending Citizenship - Check Recognition - Check - USA CONGRESS

Why should it go to Arabs? How is your point not rewarding terrorism? "that is paying a price for it (especially the U.S.) both in form of violence (terrorism)" You can say a cost in AID, but when you site a cost in terrorism and you award the terrorists you have justified terorrism. Thanks Dino, the terrorist sympathizer

Your post is so silly that it does not deserve any answer,and even less an argument.But I am a generous person...

-- we will never give it up, for to do so would mean that we would have to give up the captured lands which we have annexed and walled off. We should read our own religious texts. Walls and fences and barriers are never a long term safeguard. Jerusalem is not a cornerstone of peace. Much rather, it is the site of the beginning of the final Armageddon, which will engulf the entire world as we know it.

The actions of the Arab and "Palestinians" clearly show their abilities to "share" the city. Just out of curiosity, would anyone like to speculate what would happen in the world if Israel used Al-Aqsa and the Dome of Rock for 19 years in the same way the Arabs and "Palestnians" used the Kotel for 19 years? Anyone? What do you think would be the world's response to Al-Aqsa being used as a garbage dump? The Hurva redidcation is another great example why Jerusalem is off the table, when or if a peace mediator is found a better idea is to agree take Jerusalem off the table but at the same time, take Hebron off the table for Israel and state that If Palesitnians want all of Hebron they must agree to an Israel all jerusalem. From there we will have peace, or better odds at least. This will allow for a guarantee that a shul is kept in order and so is a mosque, each side holds value to the other and so, comes trust.

Dino, Thanks for your post. I agree wholeheartedly on some of your comments. However, Jerusalem has become the Achilles Heel for the Obama Administration. Its obvious that some serious compromises have been made to the Arab World by Washington. More than likely, it was to reign in Israel, or if one prefers to"domesticate" PM Netanyahu vis a vis Jerusalem and it future status. Its true that even GWB deferred the Jerusalem issue every six months or so. Then again, Israel has always left the above subject last..for Israel was seeking a peace deal first. Its doubtful, that with the current state of affairs, mainly regarding Hamas,Hezbollah,Iran and Syria that any peace deal, will bear fruit. Let us not forget the threat of Al Qaeda,Taliban and a host of other Jihadi Groups. The only possibility is with Pres.Abbas and Fatah. Nobody can or will force Israel to divide up Jerusalem. It will only be a choice of those that vote, in... Israel. G·night from snowy Alps.

YOU ARE CORRECT. Jerusalem is the heart of the jewish people therefore no trading

of peace in the Middle East - not only achieving peace with the Palestinians. It's the most contentious territory to discuss within the negotiations and to continually emphasize its current status and activities as a precondition before the direct talks is making the delay of diplomacy a disservice to all. We've seen public surveys within Israel supporting the sharing of the capital by the majority of Israelis, however, one can't dismiss the concerns of those unwilling to even contemplate the sharing of the eternal capital of the Jewish people. It's afterall the cornerstone of Judaism. I believe that the Arabs also understand this fact, but they can't accept new development construction or the displacement of Palestinians from their homes while the negotiations proceed. In the end, it's only logical that an accommodation will be worked out for both peoples who prize the city of peace as their capital.

your colonial war . Before they only had British Overseas pass ,not entitling them to settle in Britain(the same pass as Hong Kong inhabitants)

Would there still be a problem with Islamic extremism, once the Israeli-Palestinian conflict would be solved in a fair way...??? Most probably yes. Would it then be much easier for the rest of the world to fight this phenomena...??? Most probably yes. Today the Obama view is pretty much "mainstream" view around the world, that without a just solution to the Palestinian problem, the so called "war on terror" can't be won by the U.S. and its allies. And therefore I'm quite convinced, that world leaders won't be willing to wait for "the next generation", and will if necessary simply impose a solution on both parties. Regards from the (fortunately) no more snowy southern part of Switzerland...

According to the Geneva convention in war if your are attacked and you gain land because of that attack that land is yours. Jerusalem the Golan the west bank are now all Israels despite what the Antisemites such as yourself and most of Europe believe. If Israel wants to give it up like in Sinai that is there choice not what is required of them.

CJK: "Kevin Walsh, Israel did extend citizenship" What is this nonsense? Israel insisted that it IMPOSED its sovereignty on those territories, and if it did that then it also needed to IMPOSE its sovereignty on the people of that territory. That's how it works; you can't say "I'm taking the territory, but you guys? Hah! You guys I can take or leave". Look at all the Arabs who were left inside "the Jewish state" in 1949, Cipora. They had Israeli citizenship IMPOSED upon them; they weren't asked and they weren't given an option EVEN THOUGH a very large proportion of them were on territory that was **not** allocated to the Jewish state in the Partition Plan. That's how it is done i.e. THE PEOPLE COME WITH THE TERRITORY. How quickly zionists forget their own history, heh?

Abbas is a gown up man ! He was elected a President to build a nation ! How a man like that can be turned into to the way you described him? Or, as usual, you must find some lie to blame Israel ?! Don't you think blaming others for ones own mistake will not help to 'put food on the table' ? Just a waste of time ? In case of President Abbas it is an insult to all those who elected him and there are so many of them !

Arabs refused. On the Golan some accepted.

by the way, EU most recently demanded his immediate release. What would need to happen for Mr. Eldar to saddenly recall such a detail?

very correct, as usual. the attempt to link islamic terror with the issue of the palestinians ignores historical realities. as you point out, there are hundreds of thousands of american and nato troops in the middle east. the islamists resent the presence of infidels on what they consider to be holy muslim land, which is essentially all conquered by muslims.

Israel accepted a state in 1948 without Jerusalem, because the jews, unlike the palestinians, didn't need to meet all of their demands to create a state. that doesn't mean that it doesn't have legitimate rights to the city. jerusalem is the heart and soul of the jewish religion. jerusalem is only important to islam because it is important to the jews. jerusalem isn't mentioned once in the koran. the heart and soul of islam is in saudi arabia. they just can't let the jews have anything. 56 muslim states, one jewish one.

No matter if 5 or 50 or 50,000 new homes are or are not built in Jerusalem, nothing can change Jewish history and the connection Jews have to the Temple Mount. Muslims are playing deadly games in order to try and pull the wool over the quartets eyes. They want sovereignty on the Temple Mount. A nation barely 150 years old want sovereignty of the holiest site for Jews. This will never happen so the sooner they understand this the better for everyone involved. Israelis on the Left are so ignorant of their own history that they are unable to say the following when talking to Muslims, ?The Temple Mount is as important to the Jews as it is to anyone else?. The Israeli Left take almost like a Communist approach to the conflict where the playing field should be equal, with no relevance to history. This is suicide for the Jewish nation.

Dino, A compelling argument. No doubt. However with so much bloody water under the bridge, it will take a lot of trust, between all parties. One cannot just see Jerusalem as a shining light, that will create a ceasefire between the Global Jihad. The US is involved by its own accord after having placed more than 200.000 men and women of its military in various ME countries. Jerusalem is no excuse for the war on terror. Rather lets look at Pakistan. Or Afghanistan. Or for that matter Bali,London,Iraq etc. A generation, sure, things may change. Yet Israel is surrounded by hundreds of millions of those that seek the total destruction of the Jewish State. Have a nice day. From snowy and beautiful snowy Valais. Stephen.

President George W Bush stated publically on more than one occasion that it is in the strateigic interest of the United States that there be a two state solution to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Normal decent Israelis will also realise that the fundementalist christian white anglo saxon protestant who believe that establishing Israel would speed up the return of Jesus Christ, Are on the decline in the United states with the real power base emerging as African Americans, and Hispanics. The demographics of the United states have changed and will change further. The party is over for israel, and it was a fantastic one. Obama is presenting the bill.

The answer is very simple. Jerusalem should not belong to the Israel or the ARABS. It should be declared a International City governed by British, Russians and Americans law enforement. The city should be crime free and for the benefit of all! Each religious group should be able to pray in peace without causing harm to the other. Now argue that!

what your recommendation on 56 muslim countries taking up your advice ?

needed to fit into a round hole. However, when it comes to Netanyahu and the peace process, it is who he is most scared of. And he is more scared of his father than he is of the President of the United States. Hence the announcement during Biden's visit. Well Netanyahu appears to have one option left. I was pleasently surprised when I woke up this morning and saw that Israel hadn't attacked Iran.

....if the International community will grant both parties that much time. And believe me, it won't, because it's also the International community, that is paying a price for it (especially the U.S.) both in form of violence (terrorism) and cash (U.S. financial aid to Israel, European financial aid to the Palestinians). Believe me, both the U.S. and the European taxpayers won't be willing to make that effort much longer.... Apart from that, the Arab League has made it pretty clear, that they would be on board with my proposal, okay, on the refugee question, they would have to compromise a little bit more, but as soon as Israel shows willingness to compromise on the Jerusalem question, interna- tional pressure will also mount on the Arabs to give in... The conflict with Syria is actually the easiest to solve, and there is no way that Hezbollah and Iran can still act in the same way, once the rest of the Arab world has made peace with Israel.

It was obvious. Even during the time of Teddy Kollek, who was a much better mayor than all those who came after him. To those who can't tell the difference between East and West Jerusalem, you are requested to take a walk, without a guide, around the walls (outside them) of the Old City. You don't need barriers or borders to delineate difference, you just need the evidence on the streets. Jerusalem is central to any agreement between the Palestinians and Israel. Putting it last is a ploy of those who can't accept the inevitable and can't see the depths of human depravity that we have reached in maintaining our grasp on what will, by the laws of nature, slip from it. Israel functioned as a state before June 1967, it will function as a state when it consents to share it, in all its wonderful diversity, as an open city of peace.

A reasonable solution is stop settlement expansion and movement of Jews into East Jerusalem. Maintain this status quo for a time period to allow the Palestinians to develop their own representative govenment. This may take 2-5 years, but will demonstrate that Israel is serious about peace. Start removing the outposts and settlements that jutt into the heart of the West Bank, and negotiate land exchanges for the ones that will remain in place. Compensate the Palestinians that have been displaced. In other words, treat the Palestinians as equals.

No one is asking Israel to give up anything. They don't own E. Jerusalem. They have taken it thru conquest of war. Israel is party to agreements that have outlawed conquest by war. E. Jerusalem was aquired during war, therefore Israel may occupy it but they certainly do not own it! This is the law and the world expects E. Jerusalem will be Palestinian.

Dino, No doubt, many will agree with you. However, we both know that it will not stop in Jerusalem. What is first required, is a Peace Treaty, both with the disenfranchised Palestinians and the Arab World. That in itself is a fairy tale. So is the division of Jerusalem. This will take generations of wheeling and dealing. Israel is at peace, however shaky, with only two Arab States, Egypt and Jordan. As for the rest..? The clouds of war are forever looming on the horizon. Its snowing again. Have a nice day. Stephen.

Obama is showing his fist...to whom...to his friend (!) Israel. Israel should wait until Obama and his fist fades away at the end of 1012.

It has been crystal clear to observers from abroad for a long, long time, that this will be the 2 painful "toads" that both parties will have to swallow for a just peace between Israel and the Arabs. Israel will have to give up the Eastern (and mostly Arab populated) part of Jerusalem, and accept it as the capital of a new Palestinian state, and the Arabs must accept, that they can't flood Israel with Palestinian refugees. Those are painful decisions for both parties to accept, but the International community has decided for a long time, that this will be the outcome. The sooner you will learn to live with that reality, the lesser the pain....

The Home page subtext suggested that this makes the 2-state solution untenable as official US policy. What is the alternative for PEACE?

justice and equality are. But the issue of Jerusalem gives a pretty clear indication of whether those two cornerstones are being put in place. But it seems that after decades, the spot where the stones will eventually be laid is still a weed infested wasteland.

RE: 'Never give up part of the Old City'. Do you mean as part of your projected Capital?Then why did you not make it part of your capital between 1948 and 1967?

The Palestinians will never ever give up any part of the old city. Its the mother of all nevers. Now lets sit and talk peace.

... have to share with the Pals, honestly and fairly... all we need is an honest broker...

... should "compromise"... that is precisely why they have to share, fairly and honestly... ... and the USA is the most fair and honest broker that we will find...

The end of a peace process agreed with the Palestinian Authority is only the beginning of a very very precarious and fragile road to a real peace. All objective intra-Palestinian studies reveal that Abbas and the PA will be ousted from power in their very next elections (if they will ever allow them to happen) and a far more virulent and anti Israeli party will take over. I would appreciate if Haaretz would do some real reporting in in this matter and analyze likely scenarios of what will happen the day after there is a peace process signed with a weak Abbas government. I believe that this will bring us only closer to a war, but I am open minded to alternative well thought through views. Thank you

Arabs never had any proper representation in this "democratic" government. There are thousands of acres of land, originally owned by arabs in jeurusalem (West and East). Many of these arab owners did not pocess any paper work to prove their ownership (because the system of having a deed or any proper paper work did not exist before the creation of Israel). Also, the Israeli government reluctantly refuses to give out land deeds to arabs that have any claim to their land. These lands eventually become confiscated in the most corrupt manner possible. A good example are those lands which surround east and west jeurusalem. Almost all of the land (homes and farms) that surrounded the wailing wall belonged to arabs. Many of the olive farms owned by the Israeli government were stolen from palestinian families in similar fashion. Any palestinian family who had a relative or even a friend that was involved in any uprisings or demonstrations had their homes destroyed and land confiscated.

Arabs never had any proper representation in this "democratic" government. There are thousands of acres of land, originally owned by arabs in jeurusalem (West and East). Many of these arab owners did not pocess any paper work to prove their ownership (because the system of having a deed or any proper paper work did not exist before the creation of Israel). Also, the Israeli government reluctantly refuses to give out land deeds to arabs that have any claim to their land. These lands eventually become confiscated in the most corrupt manner possible. A good example are those lands which surround east and west jeurusalem. Almost all of the land (homes and farms) that surrounded the wailing wall belonged to arabs. Many of the olive farms owned by the Israeli government were stolen from palestinian families in similar fashion. Any palestinian family who had a relative or even a friend that was involved in any uprisings or demonstrations had their homes destroyed and land confiscated.

Had Israel extended Israeli Citizenship to all the inhabitants of Occupied East Jerusalem when it formally annexed it I would regard such annexation as valid. In the absence of such a move (Arab occupants were given permanent residency not citizenship status) it is hard not to see Israel?s' annexation it as a sham.

the only logical solution.

the bigger part of Israel they will all of a sudden become peacefull?

I see absolutely no evidence peace is what they really want.

It could be wrong & next to terrorism ! A bankrupt policy that failed to protect freedom ! What is worse, when fighting the only democratic country in the middle east where every thing in line to turn all its countries into stable rules and within the provisions of the law ! If it is decided that israel to go for whatever reason; the entire fight for a democratic Midest will be a thing of the past. A wasted efforts that cost lot of wealth & human lives. All down the drain ! There is no Israel without its holy places. Unlike other countries. Israel is living for its past ! A jewish state & nothing else ! Jews were given other chances for a national home and being historically rejected. A fact that is widely recorded. The palestinians created a life & death fight with the jews ! For reasons goes deep in their history. The mosque they have in this land was of no interest & neglected by them for millenniums;even as recently as few years ago when jerusalem was under jordanians rule.

Unfortunately the Palestinian Authority regularly incites violence in East Jerusalem and the current President's proclivity for taking extreme personal insult only at Israeli plans to expand Israeli housing (that, yes, were probably intended as insults by Shas), drags the United States into a tails-you-lose-heads-they-win Palestinian-aligned position on the city. If Israel builds, it is Israel's fault. If Palestinians riot and hurl rocks at worshipers at the Western Wall (apparently illegitimately accessible to Jewish worshipers in the eyes of the State Department), that's Israel's fault too. It is up to Israel to make unilateral concessions and the Palestinians can bedeck the Palestinian national calendar in martyrs days. OK. Jerusalem has displayed a curious strategic nonchalance in pursuing an annexation dunam by dunam in the West Bank, festooned by pronouncements that this valley or this region or this sector would never ever be returned to Palestinian rule--but this is not fair.