Top priority for the fence

Really, Boycott, such nmaivete. You should study your history and your facts better. A. Justice does NOT always win. Ask your native Americans. B. Apartheid state? How many Jewish residents rremain in any Middle Eastern country? How many ever participated in their governmen ts, as Israeli Arabs do? C. Although I personally was against the separtation wall in its present course, the fact is that it saves thousand of lives, including Arab lives, and no sane government can do less for its citizens. C. Accordin g to the women in Machsomwatch, the worse behavior among Israelis manning the machsomim was from . . . Israeli Arabs in the army and border patrol.

Does noone see the irony here? I'm going to state the most obvious question possible...how can those who suffered so much be so willng and happy to watch others the same ethnic cleansing?? Walls will NEVER stop people from resisting. Only justice will lead to your peace of mind. Since peace for Israelis means as long as they are not killed, while Palestinian children are being killed routinely!? Down with the wall of ethnic cleansing and Israeli Apartheid!

Especially Europeans. You are so worried about these poor terrorists who elected Hamas and rejected every map that ever had an Israel on it? Adopt a Palestinian. Yes, you think they deserve land, give them some of yours. You probably have more land in your country than tiny Israel anyway. Even if Israel has spent the last twenty years sitting on enough firepower to conquer half the globe, it is still one of the smallest countries ever, let alone one to be accused of expansionism. Special Incentive for Europeans, Russians, Africans and Northwestern Chinese. Islam will take over your country soon anyway, if they have not yet, so you might as well invite a few more.

The argument that the fence should follow the "green line" misses the point. This fence is not being built between friendly neighbors along a surveyors line. This fence is a perfectly justifiable defensive weapon employed against violent terrorist elements of a clearly desperate palestinian society. Accordingly,the fence should follow a route which affords maximal protection to Israeli civilians.

Maginot, Bar Lev, Iron Curtain, Berlin Wall.... All wasted. Deferring solution. Israel is a wonderful country. It is time to save the decent Palestinian from the extremist Palestinians and Israelis. When the majority of Israelis realize how decent the decent Palestinians are, there will be some progress.

Israel's conduct over this dividing line is truly sickening. So too is the number of people here ready to defend its continued and deliberate flouting of international law and basic human rights. Withdraw to the Green Line. Build a fence on your own land and keep your warmongers and racist settlers inside - it'll still keep the jihadists out too. A viable Palestinian state will give hope, land and a future to those who are presently denied it and are driven to extremes. Peace for all will be your dividend. Surely it's worth it? Yes I'm an optimist - but someone has to make a positive step. Accept what you have already and leave the rest alone!

Israel have the right to protect itself. The wall works so it have to be continued.

Dear Ibrahim: I couldn't agree with you more Israelis should move this conflict forward by engaging in a constructive dialogue with Hamas. After all, isn't that what the polls on both sides show? Besides, I am fed up with Israel isolating Hamas and placing the Palestinian people at risk for a humanitarian crisis that will probably back fire and make everyone feel so bad. Recently, I read an interview with the new PM Ismail Haneyeh in the Washington Post and I was impressed: "We are not lovers of blood. We are not interested in a vicious cycle of violence. We are an oppressed people with rights. If peace brings us our rights, then this is good". Indeed, they are an oppressed people who should have their rights and I support their noble and just cause. I have heard many people praise Hamas efforts to soften its stand towards Israel by agreeing to recognize Israel if it pulls back to the Green Line and out of the territories. Now isn't that the way to go and doesn't that sound just like what everyone in the international community want to see occurring too? Thus, I say let's get moving and call for a meeting with Hamas and move this conflict towards a constructive dialogue with Hamas. When will the Israelis realizes that recognition of Israel is more likely to come from a constructive relationship than from a set of preconditions? My peace & thanks to you. You always seem so wise. Cheers! Dutch

Are bombers and terrorists. I would like to put idiot foreign socialists and hippies on the list, but we can’t everything that we want. It then follows that the only people complaining are people who want bombers and terrorists to run rampant across Israel. To such people I suggest they sit tight, because once the wall is up, the Terrorists will take easier targets, like You. I suggest you start building your own walls.

Fox, Be a voice for sanity yourself by acknowledging that terrorists are not born but are made by others mens' wrong doings. Thus Israel is fueling Palestinian terrorism by deny them their lawful and just rights by maintaining their illegal settlements and using the Israeli Army to repress Palestinian daily instead of granting them their rights If you wish to ignore what I am saying you will in Zeev's words (#86) : "obliging the refugees to use "terrorism" as means to recuperate their right." Dutch

Israel as usual is making a critical mistake. Instead of building a fence and moving the Jews from Judea and Samaria, the government should move the Arabs to the Arab countries and the Israeli leftists back to Europe or the U.S.A.

Aby, Terror is terror, no matter how much you deny. Israel is a terrorist state, Hamas and Islamic Jihad are terrorist entities...simple as that. In terms of seperation, no problem. Your type is not exactly the type I care to be in touch with anyway. Good Israelis and Good Palestinians will continue to forge common bonds and people like you will maintain your isolation from the world of plurality and understanding. Enjoy.

...mainly so the gutless Olmert can give up more land. The fence should be completed and move HaAretz and all of their pali sympathizers over to the pali side of it.

If the fence were just a mechanism to ensure security, then it would be ON or WITHIN the Green Line. In America (& elsewhere), if someone built a fence on your land, it is tantamount (equal) to that person committing an "act of war" against you. No one here would tolerate someone building something on THEIR land. Here, you do what you want (minus certain considerations) to do on YOUR land. You have no right or privilege to do what you want on SOMEONE ELSE's land. Israel does not observe (follow) this principle, that is they are knowingly building structures (the fence, settlements, etc.) on someone else's land. The fence and the settlements are "acts/declarations of war" on the Palestinian people; are PROVOCATION/instruments of continued conflict; are at a minimum instruments of disregard and disrespect (that is you/your considerations don't count, we're going to do what we want/take what we want/anytime we want); and is just pure greed. You're thieves not victims!

because this wall must fall... because this wall will fall... because you will never stop anyone and anything with this... because israel and israelis and jews are here... because palestinians and palestine are here... because outside, there are more and more and they and we will be more... because the wall is beginning in shufat and ein ma la'asot... this wall will fall! betaj!

Yup, equally immoral. Even the Netherlands could not resist taking a piece of Germany, but that part was returned later to the BRD. But I believe the rule of international law that violence can not lead to expansion of a country's territory was written well after these events, so indeed, an Israeli living in Pisgat Ze'ev or Ma'aleh Adumim is even more immoral than a German farmer in Poland in '39, or a Russian in Kaliningrad, or a Pole in Gdansk, nowadays.

It is time to realize that you are a victim of zionist propaganda, or hasbara.

As long as you live as an Israeli on the wrong side of the green line, I couldn't care less about your security. If you have a fire-arm, you are even a legitimate target for armed resistance. I do feel sorry for your children, though, being forced to live in a war zone as obstacles to peace. All provided you don't live inside Israel, but in occupied territory, of course. If you live inside Israel, you are entitled to the same kind of security the Palestinians are entitled to.

In electing Hamas, the Palistan finally made public and official - as a people - their long-time civilian complicity in terrorism and their intractable belief - like Haman-dinejad - that NO land in the middle east belongs to Jews. So, it doesn't matter where the fence is built because, according to the Palistan, Iranians and Arabs, wherever the fence is situated will "occupy Arab land." The world won't get over its ignorance any time soon but their views are irrelevant. Israelis must get over their naivete. There is no place the fence could be situated that wouldn't be the battle line. The fence is intended to improve security against intrusions by Palistan terrorists, not bring peace. Complete the fence now and defend it forever - regardless of any opposition. Paqid 16, The Netzarim Israeli Orthodox Jew www.netzarim.co.il

A photo is worth a thousand words: http://www.netzarim.co.il/Shared/Temunot/BabyTerrorist.jpg Do you think this baby is born to be pope or lead Hamas? You think the Madrassas don't turn out terrorists? Paqid 16, The Netzarim Israeli Orthodox Jew www.netzarim.co.il

Ibrahim, Learn a little math. Stopping 99 % of attacks means 1% of succes. This means if you are killing 100 innocent civilians today, when it would be finished you are going to kill only 1. Your alikes what you don't want to understand is we are going to seperate ourselves with Pals. How can you get in touch with me? The reality is disturbing you very much that you would not going to be able to murder innocent civilians by suicide bombers. Keep on going to say the same rhetorics. Time will show you everything whose right or wrong. When you want to make peace you will knock our door. Aby

While most folks are spewing platitudes and half truths about the borders, the Generva Conventions etc. OUr Mr. Northridge has been feeding us the facts. Plain and simple facts. It would be a good idea for imposters like Ben G. ( I cannot call him by his monikker) to take notice of this gentleman, he is not full of himself. Thanks Jeff. Even though I am boycotting Doris Cadigan (Dutch) I enjoy your responses to her ignorance and lies.

"Bedouins and Druze men do join the IDF." - Gene Warech And other Arab Israelis too. Gene Warech, do not expect reality to intrude upon pace 306's racism. Racists have no room for reality.

I find the accusation that you are a "revisionist' most amusing, because - unanswered questions aside - 'revisionist' has a certain reference to your great opponent Mr. Jabotinsky.

"If only Cipora JK #48 tell sense from nonsense. Fog is blinding." - Ben Gurion No, all she did was repeat a mantra. The Palestinians will continue to use what ever means available to attack Israel for the simple reason that Israel continues to oppress them. Mr. Ben Gurion, your Haganahh did not waste time and energy - as did the Irgun - upon attacking innocent Arab civilians. Why? Why did the Irgun attack innocent Arab civilians? Understand what I am asking?

"I thought the plan was to evacuate all sttlers on the "wrong" side of the fence. How will they be in danger?" - Ben Gurion Because they will attack the IDF and prevent it from evacuating them. "And the problem with Qassams in the West Bank is not greater range. They will get much closer to Israeli towns, so much so that Hamas could use mortars and no rockets." - BG Quassams are home grown. Mortars require external sources. I won't discuss whether 60 percent potassium and 40 percent sugar, or the opposite will make rocket fuel. I will not discuss formula for explosives. My point is made Mr Ben Gurion. Range is range, and the ability to strike from a distance improves your chances both in attack and survival by the square law.

"If you want a fence build it your side of the Green Line" Ironically, this was the original proposal for the fence by the Israeli left. the 'separation barrier' was co-opted by Likud and turned into an aggressive means of defining the ultimate border. Now even the Bush administration, which will do nothing, but has less than three years to go, refuses to accept the unilateral declaration of the Israel/Palestine border. Israel might well retain all of the old city in Jerusalem and much of the most established and adjacent settlements. But there is no way it will retain most of the territory being enclosed within the current fence. Get real folks, don't waste money. Is this too conservative a message to appeal to the right wing radicals?

Being a person of chinese descent, I know the great wall has been a collosal failure. It may have protected Northern China for one or two generations but in the end the nomadic tribes to the north always suceed in bursting through. The higher the wall the greater the human urge to scale it to see whats on the other side. Thus all walls have been breached in history, the hadrian wall, the unbreachable wall surrounding Constantinople and of course the Berlin wall. The Separation fence or wall can only protect Israeli civilians temporary, but it can also give you a false sense of security. Sooner or later the imprisoned population will burst through unstopable. TAKE HEED.

Bedouins and Druze men do join the IDF.

Nobody is born terrorist. This applies also to the palestinians. Saying that the return of the Palestinian refugees is as "flood israel with thousands of terrorists" proves that you are considering the Palestinian refugees as terrorists. They are not. Palestinian refugees ask for their right since more than 50 years. Israel and the West denied this right, obliging the refugees to use "terrorism" as means to recuperate their right. By the way,: who is the terrorist: the Palestinians who use rudimental means to defend themselves or the Israeli army using high tech to aggress them and who destroyed 400 palestinian villages, thousands of homes and thousands of olive trees? Don't answer. The answer is clear for me. PEACE WILL BE THE FRUIT OF JUSTICE (Isaiah 32:17).

"The real Ben Gurion died in 1973. The false revisionism of his beliefs will hopefully not last to 2010 . . . " - Ilan Toren So now Ben Gurion is a Revisionist? Golly! Next thing you will be telling me is that Davy Crockett was a Mexican. Now how did that song we learned at the Fess Parker School go? "Died as a wet back from Tennessee". . .

Given that Olmert and Kadima lack the vision of a fair peace with the Palestinians (because they want to gobble up more land), they should at least complete the fence as soon as possible. The fence is responsible for the decline in the number of suicide bombings. It does not protect from missile or mortars, but at least one awful weapon will be removed from the scene. This is progress. The Qassams from Gaza, and now also Katyushas, actually show that the fence will not bring peace. On the contrary, it gives Israel the false confidence that it is safe, but the West Bank is much closer to major Israeli towns than Gaza, so on this front things will get much worse. The way to go: Negotiate a fair peace with Abbas, while having a hudna with Hamas. There will be no no suicide bombers nor Qassams until peace is ratified, and you save billions on the fence project. It is costly to be foolish.

The first priority is to save Jewish lives. Everthing else comes last on the shopping list. -B-

Dear colleagues, As I let you know on Saturday, I was out of town and have just come back. I notice that my former chimp Segal, was active in the last few days. Hopefully, my prewarning did the job. A chimp can repeat phrases, but he does not understand them. In paricular, this particular chimp is ignorant of the most basic facts in the ME conflict, so things never come our rational. Example: "Many thousands of Jewish settlers will be on the "wrong" side of the fence..There is no way for Israel to stop Palestinian forces from expanding the range and power of Qassam, and/or getting Katushas." - Chimpo I thought the plan was to evacuate all sttlers on the "wrong" side of the fence. How will they be in danger? You see what I mean? And the problem with Qassams in the West Bank is not greater range. They will get much closer to Israeli towns, so much so that Hamas could use mortars and no rockets. Off off off. If only Cipora JK #48 tell sense from nonsense. Fog is blinding.

See # 47 on where the fence should be and why!

Taking a key to your car in not my style,Gabe1. I told you several times. It is my style to face you straight up.

Generally a defensible border is one which if possible lies along natural lines of defense, is as short as possible, does not posses any salients or pockets which are hard to defend or allow avenues of attack, and is not subject to superior terrain. The current fence being built is dictated by political considerations and not military ones.

The fence must and should be constructed in a well planned manner and not in the rushed on the spot decision making way it is being decided now. I am a resident of Northern Jerusalem area and I see how the Army is running to say on paper that the fence is completed, but the end result is that the manner in which they are doing it - for one example building the fence in the low places instead of the high ones - will leave us more vulnerable than before the fence existed! All the travelers on the roads 436-and 443 will be driving with concrete barriers like Gush Etzion and will be crisscrossed by Arab roads or tunnels running underneath our roads. I do not call this separation. Where do you see Pakistan's roads running under India's and call it separation?

I just thought it strange that someone who's never set foot in Israel would write: "until WE resolve the issues,then WE have to defend ourselves the best WE can."

Probably the fence will not be needed then any more...

...but Nietche lives!

A fence can be MOVED. At the moment ALL of Israel is officially occupied territory according to the elected government of Palestine. It is to be replaced by an Islamic republic and NOT subject to UN resolutions or any borders. Of course you quote Green line when it suits you. What were you saying about hypocrits??

Ronnie off the Wall Man has never even been to Israel but is the self proclaimed spokesman for the Jewish consciousness. Uneducated, assimilated and a "ben Gurion" the plagarizing Arab desciple. A know little self loathing Jew-that is Ronnie. But do not get him mad or he will key your car.

Howdy Ibrahim; I don't place my faith in the wall, I place my faith in the IDF who is backing it up. A wall can only keep out the barbarians for as long as it is manned (like Hadrian's Wall and the Great Wall of China did for centuries). The Israeli-Palestinian Conflict may be an asymmetrical war, but it is definitely not a war of attrition. Only 3800 Palestinians and 1200 Israelis have died during the past five years. That doesn't even come close to the annual birthrate on either side. If you want to see a war of attrition, try the War in Vietnam during which at least a quarter of the entire population of Vietnam was either killed or seriously wounded. In addition to the 80,000 Israeli settlers on the "wrong" side of the fence who will have to be resettled, there are also 170,000 settlers on the "right" side of the fence who aren't going anywhere. If you are hoping that one suicide bomber/yr. is going to cause Israel to do anything other than retaliate, then you're mistake

Welsh Rare-brit,the wall IS a trust building measure. Its the trust to the Israeli people that we stop as many suicide bombers as possible. As far as the trust I was talking about and the Wall. It cannot be a permanent peace measure.It is however the antithesis of the Charter and Israels perogative. The threat of the charter is beyond the push for a return of any occupied/disputed territory.It is the intent to destroy Israel.The wall is not perfect but it is a defensive measure. On negotiations.I would like to see a resolution but I wonder about the intent of the muslims that are backing Hamas. I think it will take many small steps. In my case I would say Pink Floyd should do Anuvver Step on the Road rather that Anuvver Brick in the Wall. I think the fact that Hamas has held the ceasefire and israel has refrained from revenge with Hamas at least is a good idea of what is happening under the surface. Saw Tottenham play in Cardiff,Ninian Pk I think a cup game circa 1962(0-2)

A fence is more of a symbol than a protector. It has its good side and bad side. It can be demolished at any time just like the Berlin wall. However, It is a reminder that Israel is forced to seperate itself physically from the Palestinians due to the hostility and many unresolved issues. Perhaps the day will come when people will have enough of this war and be ready to sit and talk. Until then, the fence will remind them of the alternatives.

Howdy Patrick; The Green Line was never a border. It was an armistice or cease-fire line. According to UNSCR 242, the final border was to be worked out through negotiations, but those have never been able to come to an agreement yet. Therefore, it is debatable as to exactly what is "Palestinian land" and what isn't. In any case the Israeli settlers did not "steal" any land from anybody. It was either unclaimed public land or legally purchased from the previous owners. You are confusing sovereignty with private ownership. Oh yeah, the fence does not divide the Palestinian areas of the West Bank into "individual ghettos". On the contrary, the fence leaves the Palestinians with 92% of the West Bank in one contiguous piece. Take a look at a map. The Palestinians can try to get through the security barrier, but if it's backed up by the IDF, then their attempts will be futile. Face it, the Palestinians have lost militarily and there's nothing that they or anybody else can do about it.

The expulsion of Germans from Eastern Europe was a tragedy, however I beleive many of them received citizenship in Germany. I do not think I mentioned the right of return. I thought I mentioned those civilians currently residing in the West Bank which I beleive I mentioned by name. I also beleive that I have stated that the fence should be built on the greenline, which Fox has stated is not a solidified entity. As he lives there I take note of what he says. My response to Yonathan was supposed to be tongue in cheek, but I also recognised his answer as a valid one. I am a Christian and proud to be so, why do you keep eluding to it. Is it because you have no real argument. I find it rather sad.

"It`s obvious you thieves are using it to steal more Palestinian land and water while dividing up the occupied territories into isolated ghettos. Hypocrites!" Its OBVIOUS that you dont know your geography OR the situation well at all. Becuase if you did, you would know that the niehgborhoods israel will forever keep are on the border of the green line, not far in, and therefore dont cut anything in any peices. You would ALSO know that some areas, like the Gush, enevr ever belonged to Jrodan except from 48-67. Jews lived there beforem, they were kicked out by hte war in 48 and came back afterwards. Of cousre you think this "returning of land" should only go one way....who is the hypocrite exactly???

Do you seriously believe that you can build trust by building walls,or fences between you? I have more sympathy for the more intellectually honest argument that the wall or fence is there to protect the security of Israel. Walls however in the long term fail, the Great Wall of China didn't succeed in keeping out the Barbarians, the Berlin Wall crumbled and the so-called peace walls in Northern Ireland failed it was only by negotiation between the Governments and the various terrorist groups Republican and Loyalist that the walls have now started to come down, in itself the wall was a failure. How do you get to know the other side by building a wall between you? I'm sorry Ronnie but your usual powers of reason and logic must be having a day off. To use one of your football analogies Israel is currently seen as Manchester United, not much support among the people but bought and paid for by the Americans. Finally, Ronnie remember 23rd April 1927, the day of the underdog.

Give us your views,you always go underground when questioned about your website. Maybe it reflects the motives behind your advice. Do tell us.No Guts??

I hope the Palestinians blow up every inch of the barrier that crossed into the occupied territory. It's obvious you thieves are using it to steal more Palestinian land and water while dividing up the occupied territories into isolated ghettos. Hypocrites!

Ha'aretz is begging for the separation/security barrier/wall/fence to be completed so as to 1.prevent further attacks on Israel proper and 2.facilitate the implementation of 'convergence'. These are two great and fanciful assumptions. One has to take as a given that attacks inside Israel will continue by other means whenever feasible even after the completion of the wall as long as the occupation continues. And the occupation will continue and by other means if the most that Israel has to offer the Palestinians is the smoke and mirror act of 'convergence'. The editor of Ha'aretz still does not get it. I trust Jonathan Cook's reporting and analysis (or for that matter Akiva Eldar's) than those by the editor whoever he/she is.

impression your new religion encourages it, I suppose. "Full citizenship".Like who? Millions of Germans expelled(or murdered) from the E.Europe after the WW2? Start a crusade for giving them "citizenship rights" you care so much about.

The real Ben Gurion died in 1973. The false revisionism of his beliefs will hopefully not last to 2010, even childish talkback posters can mature in 5 years time.

To see if they want to abandon the Islamic Republic of Palestine?

"you are bad, much more than many." wow, they really teach you to hate jews becofre you even learn how to speak over there dont they. Good thing you got priorities straight. And by the way, The ggush NEVER belonged to you guys, so what claim do u have there?

instead of puittin up a barrier to keep terrorists out and murderers away from our cities, lets flood israel with thousands of terrorists who have no right under any international law to be here! THAT will bring peace for sure!! i really hope u can pick up on sarcasm. Oh, and your quote "Only justice can do, specialy when the fence on stolen lands of miserable people whose only crime is not to be jews." makes no sense...apparently, murder and violence and the killing of innocent men women and children on busses isnt a crime to you...interesting

Jeff, I know you put your faith in the wall, but even YOU claim it will stop only 99% of attacks. Perhaps you haven't figured this out, this is an asymetric war of attrition. As long as Palestinians are kept under the control of the Israelis, they will resist....and even 1 attack per year is enough to force the Israelis to deal with the problem. As for the 80,000 odd messianic settlers, for some period of time, BG is right, they will be on the wrong side of the fence.... In the end, the problem will be solved when the Israelis put their tails between their legs and negotiate in good faith...Amazingly, in the entire history of the conflict between Israel and Palestine, we've yet to see them bargain in good faith. Good luck , sergeant. Ibrahim

Nadir, Compare todays situation with 2002, before Operation Defence Shield. The unfinished fence provide Israel a lot of security that can't be denied. The numbers is showing everything. Can you explain how can Pals will countinue to bring the fight to the Israel's doorstep. Finishing the fence means no more suicide bombers. This reality makes you mad. It's not only good for Israel, but it is also good for the brainwashed Pal juveniles. Aby

All israeli primeministers for the last decade plus said no palestinian partner to negotiate with, you want to distance your selves and separate ? go !!! but don't take the land with you,since you should have learned by now that you will never get away with it, even with a high racist wall. if you are scared of bombing don't aggravate your neighbors and cry bad neighbors. you are bad, much more than many.

First of all you should be concerned who 'You' are. I am proud of my name,unlike you who is using a name not your own. So from the start my commitment is bigger than yours. You are also from Maryland,not Tel Aviv I believe? You talk about me not being Israeli,you are right but I believe Jerry Segal is not either. Is 'WE' an exclusive term for the Right only when refering to Judaism and Israel???????????

Wak up North American, I can't understand, why don't you preach to the Pals, and only to us. Why do you want to appease the Arabs. Why do you offer us to give up. If Nuclear explosion would occur in TelAviv, not only us but the whole region is in danger. Besides Iran could not have the courage attack us.Iran is not so stupid to send nukes. Iran knows, the moment they send nukes there would be no more Iran. Wake up American. I'm interested in tommorow. My main conncern is to stop this suicide bombers. We are not afraid of nuclear threat, God is great. Aby

"To me, settling as an Israeli in eg. Pisgat Ze`ev or Ma`aleh Adumin is as moral as settling as a German in Poland, in `39." What about settling as a Pole in Germany in '45, John? In Gdansk (Danzig), for example? Or settling as a Russian in Kaliningrad (Koenigsberg)in '47? Is that moral? If it is equally unmoral, why then "world still allows this to go on unpunished", using your own words?

The fence could have been a good idea. BUT it should have been built on the green line. But the Israelis turned it into a big land grab once more under the pretext of security. But the way it is built will not bring security.

Good point well made I take my hat off to you. Obviously that means that the people living in the West Bank before the wars that allowed Israel to occupy the West Bank should be given full Israeli citizenship with all the rights this entails? Thought so

Howdy Nadir; You said, "By its very nature, an asymmetric conflict can`t be won by either side -- it has to be negotiated." Sometimes that is true, but most of the time that is false. History is full of counter examples to the above statement like the Philippine Insurrection or Che Guevarra's failed revolution in Bolivia. No negotiations were required to crush the rebels permanently. On the contrary, Israel's security barrier will stop 99% of all Palestinian ground attacks. If you are placing your hopes on Qassams and Katyushas to force Israel to accede to Palestinian demands, then you don't know the Israelis. The only thing that that will do is to make the Israelis mad and retaliate causing five times as much damage on the Palestinians as vice-versa. Israel can keep that up until hell freezes over, can the Palestinians? Unless the Palestinians can seize and hold territory with boots on the ground, they lose. Rockets won't do that.

You don't happen to be one of those people who rant about Israel taking security measures, but then forget to sign on and ruthlessly condemn Palestinian terrorists murdering innocent Israeli civilians in terrorist attacks, do you?

Don't get me wrong--I want the fence finished yesterday. But fences don't stop Qassams or Katyushas from landing and exploding near your kindergartens. Israel may well have to re-occupy Gaza because the Palestinians are unwilling or incapable of preventing terror attacks from there. The fence will help reduce terror launched from the West Bank, but only the comprehensive defeat of the Palestinians will stop it altogether. BTL http://bloodthirstyliberal.com

... that the Palestinians DO ALREADY consider the entire land that Israel is built on to be "occupied". You're really deluded if you think that withdrawing to the pre-1967 borders will appease the Palestinians. It certainly will not. The only thing that will do that is if Israel is completely wiped off the map, along with all the Jews in the world.

We on the right agree - when the Pals give up our land - then there will be peace! PEACE NOT PIECE !

It's heartbreaking to read so many comments by faux Palestinian "moderates" who justify and legitimize terrorist attacks on Israeli civilians. Finish the fence and save lives.

Howdy Ben; The 80,000 Israeli settlers on the "wrong" side of the fence will have to be resettled on the "right" side of it. What do you think that "unilateral convergence" is all about? About 8% of the West Bank will be retained by Israel including the large settlement blocs near the Green Line as well as East Jerusalem. The fence will be able to stop 99% of all ground-based, Palestinian terrorist operations. The rocket and mortar fire is a threat, but it isn't a very big one. That recent suicide bombing in Tel Aviv caused more Israeli casualties than all of the rockets and mortar rounds fired at Israel for the past five years. Besides, those attacks are counter-fired by Israeli artillery and air strikes and if they get out of hand, the Palestinians risk being reoccupied by the IDF and this time there won't be any Israeli settlers in the area to worry about. So, what's your plan to minimize the violence? I doubt if it will be any better than the security barrier approach.

nobody asked a shnook in sweden what to do or how to do it! the ICJ has as much validity as you - and you cant get any less! how is the anti semitic forum you are still running? free palestine - now available with a packet of crisps bm

"Many thousands of Jewish settlers will be on the "wrong" side of the fence. These messianic settlers will become the targets of Palestinian resistance." - Ben Gurion Every attack on them will be one not aimed at Israel. "My guess is that the Qassam threat will get worse as well. There is no way for Israel to stop Palestinian forces from expanding the range and power of Qassam, and/or getting Katushas. I doubt the fence will protect Israelis from Palestinian resistance operations." - Ben Gurion It was intended only to end suicide bombings. It can't stop a rocket. "We`ll have to wait for 2010 elections for sensible Israeli leaders." - Ben Gurion By then the opening created by the passing of the old guard of leaders in both Israel and Palestine will have closed.

"The Apartheid Wall is a red herring." I said "a[artheid wall" first! Don't plagiarize. And you're right - who cares? The more terror, the less the world cares about the Palestinians.

"Complete the fence on the green line then the world will know it is for security and not a land grab." What's wrong with a land grab? To the victor belong the spoils. Germany started World War II and lost territory. So did Japan.

Your talk of Palestinian military options being reduced to zero shows a complete lack of understanding of the concept of asymmetric conflict. The point of Qassams is not so much in their explosive capacity. Rather, it's in their ability to inflict psychological and emotional damage - i.e. if the Palestinians can't have justice then the Israelis can't have security and peace of mind. By its very nature, an asymmetric conflict can't be won by either side -- it has to be negotiated. Sharon understood that, but alas, too late! The Apartheid wall will do nothing to provide Israelis with peace of mind, because the Palestinians will continue to bring the fight to Israel's doorstep until justice is achieved.

Palestinian terror will continue. Good thing you no longer bother with a facade.

Those of us that really want peace ( unlike Frazen and the like) realize that the formula has allways been the same: "Land for peace". The Palestinians deviced a strategy to try to get the land without giving Isarel any peace: The strategy.. the suicide terrorists that endanger the daily lives of all Isarelis... The smart Israeli response, and the only one that copule eventually bring peace is one that prevents the sucsess of the Palestinian strategy: You must denny thye Palestitians the Terrorist otion while keeping wcontrol of as much land as possible... a land that Isarel might negotiate with whenever, if ever, the palestinians decide they really want peace. If they never do Isarel should keep the land and let the Pälestinians rot in the hell of their own making!

"Interim Prime Minister Ehud Olmert must place the completion of the fence at the top of his agenda - first, in order to maintain security and save civilian lives". Now Haaretz's you know the Holy land needs more bridges than walls as Pope John ii said. But if you say the fence will help facilitate the withrawal from the West Bank as it did with the withdrawal from Gaza then I am all for that. Then Olmert should get going on the fence! Thank you, Dutch

I agree that the fence must be completed as soon as possible. Many threats to Israel and its people already exist, and new ones are emerging. Finish the fence now, and discuss the finer points of political etiquette later; time is a luxury Israel cannot afford when so many are queued to destroy her and her people. The world will always grumble about Israel's actions - taking just, decisive action quickly is her only choice. Who else will really stand to protect her?

Howdy Johanes; In the first place, the ICJ does not have jurisdiction over the route of the security barrier, exceeded their authority by deciding where the border is by ignoring UNSCR 242, doesn't have a clue about the difference between war and peace time, and can't enforce their rulings anyway. The purpose of the fence is to physically separate the two hostile people as best as possible. This means that Israel intends to protect the large settlement blocs of Ariel, Maale Adumim, and Gush Etzion and retain East Jerusalem which has already been annexed to Israel. The fence carefully avoids Areas A and B in the West Bank where 97% of the Palestinians actually live.

"Come you masters of war You that build all the guns You that build the death planes You that build the big bombs You that hide behind walls You that hide behind desks I just want you to know I can see through your masks.." - Bob Dylan (Masters Of War)

Hoe about ending the occupation, assasinations and home demolitions as a step to stop the terror that is befalling the Palestinians on the hands of the Issraelis. Desparation leads to self destruction and suicide bombngs

This is the only solution. Two states: Israel and Jordan Palestine. End this experiment of creating a second Arab Palestinian state. Obviously the Arabs dont want it because they have said no to a second state for 70 years. Fences save lives and also force peace. It works in China, former Yugoslavia and Ireland. Its a fact. There is NO international law preventing Israel from placing it anywhere in Judea and Samaria. Hague ruling was polical, not factual, and also has no legal status in Judea and Samaria. Only defunct League of Nations and Israel law apply. Afterall, the only offical partition was between Israel and Jordan Palestine. There is no international justification for a second Arab Palestinian state. Arabs have already stolen enough of the land promised to Israel for its SECOND creation.

If last week's bombing did nothing else, it solidified the need to complete the construction of the separation fence. The bomber found an open area of the fence and was able to get thru. We must finish the fence now.

Its helpful that when you post - it make some sence. You can always disagree - the US is still a free country (although if it was Israel Olmert would sick Mazuz or one of his cronies to shut you up). Your post makes no sence because NO ONE (including Israel) is threatening Iran. Plus, Iran has more oil them Saudi Arabia, so their claim that they need nukes for electricity is 100% bogus. I guess arab appologists - like the ones who demonstrated in NY (the new holocaust is comming) get nervous when Jews stand up for themselves. Well, get used to it - we arent going anywhere. The incorrect use of "aparthied" shows the lack of intelligence by the left wing sites you copy your ideas from. Both Jews and arabs are SEMITES - ie the same RACE. This is a religious/cultural/land battle - NOT race. Is it "reverse aparthied" when Israeli arabs want state funds yet wont join the IDF? Next time you want to have a rational conversation - post a responce that actually makes sence (please).

Do you live in Israel? From your email it sounds like you're on the front lines...

Zeev your slogans are very cute, and so rediculous that they make one smile. The scary thing is your real intention which is to see war and more war. Even Hitler's boys met with Stalin's henchmen and talked the slogans of peace, all the time getting ready for the worst war in history. The Jews need a state. period. the Palestinians do not need one but they have come to want one, fine. Let us figure this one out. the calling for a one state solution would mean total war. You know as well as I that the Jews are not going to give up and put ourselves at the whim of the Arabs. This is absurd. History does not support you claims for a secular state. It is nice to have a dream, but eventually you have to open your eyes. Now Zeev I want you to contemplate all the Jewish lives that were taken just a few kilometers from where you sit now. Think about how the Swiss were not even willing to take in Freud. Think about Zeev, if you have a soul tap into it.

Howdy Stephen; The completion of the security barrier in the West Bank most certainly will stop 99% of ground Palestinian terrorism just like it did from the Gaza Strip. Furthermore, the fence followed by "unilateral convergence" will enable the Palestinians to have 92% of the West Bank in one contiguous chunk plus all of the Gaza Strip for their state (without East Jerusalem). If the Palestinians still need to "fight for their freedom", how are they going to do that if they can't get through the fence? If the two sides are physically separated from each other how can the conflict be continued? Except for some ineffective rocket and mortar fire over the fence which is counter-fired by Israeli artillery and air strikes, the Palestinian military options are rapidly being reduced to near zero. It's better for them to negotiate and accept what they can get now or Israel will decide the issue for them.

Hi Chris, I actually believe at times that you are one of the few folks from outside who actually would like to see peqace here. The word peace has been muddied by the war mongers calling themsleves peace activists, but that is another story. Regarding the wall, the wall affects me, day to day. It protects me, of this I am certain. We had three suicide bombers plus a car bomb in my little area, since the wall? nothing. As for the green line and world opinion. Sure I think world opinion is nice, so is symphathy, but it does not outweigh my security. for me the green line was never written in stone. It is porous and poor. The Hamas does not accept it and nor do we. Other than some in the world community nobody on the ground here believes it is the final demarcation. So on this day of holocaust remembrance, the memory of the world and its silence on Darfur, Kashmir, the congo, Ruanda, Somalia etc. leaves me little if any hope in international justice. OIL!

Joh I do not anything about you, but you certainly do sound feisty. I hear you getting all hot and bothered by the wall. Well sir I happen to live three kilometers form the Wall, and a fine wall it is. I am certain that since the wall went up in my area it has done it's job. I will always remember the day when they captured a fourteen year old suicide bomber no more than one meters from my home. There is not enough room to relate the story. You may have carved the 67 line into stone, but I have not. it is always important to remember that the Israelis have a say in their security no less than you do. From what I have read so far from you, you are not at all interested in my security or that of my children. so lay off. From many of the postings many a sympathizer for the Pals is also not terrbily interested in their safety as well. It is odd to hear peaceniks crying for revolution and freedom by way of blood and the sword. Time for a morality check jon

You just provided a rationale for Iran to arm itself against an apartheid regime and shoot before being shot.

Nice idea, but understand that where the fence should be remains undecided and not agreed upon.

If Canada shelled the US daily, and sent in suicide bombers - how long would it be until the US went to war? Well if you are Israel and you are Ehud the brain dead, the answer in - you do nothing and lie and pretend it doesnt exist. What good is a wall when Israel constantly helps the PA out of every jam it gets itself into. Last I recall, Israel won all 5 wars, thus IT gets to decide the terms. Looking at whats going thats certainly NOT the case. Stop providing them with funds, and let thier arab bretheren provide them with all the things they need - ie electricity, garbage and any other service. How long do you support an enemy? The lefts cry for the wall (like in this article) isnt for Israels saftey - but its to help Ehud make the WB Judenrien. We all want saftey and a normal life away from the arab vermin - but just finnishing the wall on its own wont do it - a decisive victory (like in ww2) over the arabs is needed.

But we wouldn't have been asking for it, unlike Israel and its settler enterprise.

So it is unfortunate but true: two irrational enemies (Israeli and Palestinian leadership) make life hell for normal people, most of them living under the occupation. To me, settling as an Israeli in eg. Pisgat Ze'ev or Ma'aleh Adumin is as moral as settling as a German in Poland, in '39. It is unbelievable the world still allows this to go on unpunished.

To some of the Muslim world maybe the whole of Israel is disputed, but as for most of the world is concerned, including me, any territory conquered in 1967 is not only not disputed, but occupied, and any Israel settlement on it is illegal, and the fence is just another misplaced fact on the ground & obstacle to peace. But for the sake of the argument I am willing to call the occupied territories "disputed". That a lot of muslims do not find the existance of Israel acceptable still does not give Israel the right to keep its illegal colonies outside the green line, or build a fence there to strengthen their hold of the stolen goods. That this fence is for the protection of proper Israeli's in Israel proper is propaganda, hasbara, a big lie. I seem to remember that Israel never wanted to talk to Palestinians, even refused to acknowledge their existence, until they became to strong to ignore. So the Israeli culture indeed fits right in with the culture of Islam.

Zionist can build as much fences as they like. The fences will not procure security. Only justice can do, specialy when the fence on stolen lands of miserable people whose only crime is not to be jews. Top priority should be not the fence, but the return of the palestinian refugees home and abolition of the racist laws against the non-Jews. PEACE WILL BE THE FRUIT OF JUSTICE (Isaiah 32:17).

It would have been more humane if Israel helped the palis depose the king of Jordan in the 60s and 70s. the pals would have had complete political expression in Jordan. They can still have Jordan for their state the Hashemite Kingdom may just fall. All the pals of Judea Samaria could have their pick of choice jordanian desert in plentitude.

As long as the apartheid regime of Israel will remain and the palestinian will be robbed, countries like Iran will feel the need to arm themselves with nuclear weapons. The danger of the fence is what else it creates in the middle east. The arrogance of some comments I can read on this post is grounded on the belief that the US will continue supporting Israel, because without the US, Israel would have been forced to negociate long ago. I am pessimistic, and it looks to me that only a nuclear explosion in downtown Tel Aviv will convince Israel that there is quite a bit to lose to continue the current contemptuous policies with respect to the Palestinians. Even a small tactical 20 pounds shell will prevent anyone from living on teh land for 15,000 years. Fence or no fence would make no difference. Wake up Israel before it is too late. Rejoin the nations that act humanely in the treatment of their neigbors. You will be suprised to see a drop in antisemiticism as a bonus.

It should now be obvious to all that the failed state of Egypt, a once proud empire is incapable of protecting itself and securing its borders. Might as well extend the Israeli wall to Dahab. As for John and Johanes who cares what they say. Their shrill voices are not relevant and they are not interested in mine or the Palestinians safety. They are but cute cheerleaders for revolution and the policy of the Pals fighting to the last man, woman, child and baby. Might as well build the wall to Scandanavia, it is of utmost importance to keep the world free of Nordic peacemakers, who have only brought war and havoc to Sri Lanka and Palestine. Their pathetic need to support "revolutionary" reactionary movements has done absolutely nothing to bring peace even an inch closer.

There is no Palestinian side of the border. Some of them claim the 1967 borders.Some of them claim all of Israel. They want a return of Palestinians into Israel with no numbers attached. Who knows what most of them would settle for? Palestinians pressured Hamas to stop suicide bombing and they can pressure them to stop violence, at least for the time it takes to negotiate. Until then, the fence should be finished quickly to protect as many Jews as possible from non-stop violence.

Complete the fence on the green line then the world will know it is for security and not a land grab.

One wall will suffice for now and when the Palestinian side is ready to talk a true and lasting peace including mutual recognition and an end to violence and incitement then the wall can be dismantled.

REMOVE but do it on the Israeli side of the Green Line and not on the Palestinian side, according to the ruling of the International Court of Justice and the wishes of the almost entire world. Why would Israel be less safe by doing just that? Free Palestine!

John, you ask for the fence "to be moved to land that is not in dispute, move it to Israel". As far as the Palestinians and the whole Moslem world is concerned, even the recognised land of Israel is disputed territory. Something that must always be remembered when dealing with the culture of Islam is that they only respect strength. As soon as we fall back to the '67 border, they will want more, then more, then more. As a culture, they recognise the authority of only heavy booted strong men and holy warriors. Israel places itself in immediate peril the minute it shows weakness. It's unfortunate but true. Israel does not have a rational enemy to deal with.

Stephen, May be you don't. But I care. It shows you don't know nothing about the fence. When the fence would be finished we are going to be hermetically seperated from the Pals. If we would not give permission to Enter noboy will enter to Israel. They wouldn't find any place in Israel to fulfill their desire. Suicide bombing era is going to finish. This reality is getting you mad. They must find other ways to combat with Israel like Qassams. In near future, I'm sure we are going to find a way to deal with this Qassams. My guess is we need 3 years to complete the fence. "The Apar " By repeating your rhetorics the reality would not change. When we finished the fence you would be going to keep on telling the same rhetorics.If Pals want peace the adreess and the conditions is very clear. Pals have not the power to dictate their solution but we have. Until you would accept this conditions we are not going to negoiate with Pals. Aby

And keep up the checkpoints and other important security measures and then when the Palestinian government decides that they want to be friends and genuinely want to stop terrorism, then the wall can come down.

the security wall/fence (a large section is fence) will proceed - you/they like it is totally irrelevant jerusalem will never be the capital of anything other than israel - again your comments are totally immaterial do you think israeli give a hoot for your opinion? any more trite - must be raining in holland bm

But you sure can repeat slogans,it saves you having to think for yourself. Your "Wall"is 95% Fence but don't let that stop you.

No its not a cry to West Ham to put all their players back there the defend against Liverpool but it is a mantra to say,that until we resolve the issues,then we have to defend ourselves the best we can. The issues themselves Have to be solved.We cannot go on like this. The issues are easy to solve mind you,but gaining trust is much more elusive. It is this point about trust that can be used as a tool against any resolution or to find stepping stones to it. Many comments,everyone knows everything. The point is,we really dont know the other side at all.

Amalek has no right to preach, I hope the see reclaims all of holland soon.

However the hatred of the terrorists is a brick wall. Nothing has been said by Iran,Hamas,Islamic Jihad,Al Aqsa or Hezb-Allah to the contrary.

and islamists will soon bring war to all Europe. wait and see.

FUNNY! I'VE JUST BEEN STYDYING THE MAP OF ISRAEL IN THE TANACH-ETERNAL TRUTH- (NUM.34;1-15). THERE IS NO MENTION OF FENCES AND GREEN LINES OR ANTHING LIKE THAT.ONLY SPECIFIC BORDERS OF LAND GIVEN BY GOD TO THE JEWISH NATION. LOOK IT UP IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME!

OLMERT'S WIFE AND DAUGHTER ARE INDIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE LAST (AND OTHER) SUICIDE ATTACK IN TEL-AVIV. wHY? BECAUSE AS MEMBERS OF MACHSON WATCH THEY PREVENT SOLDIERS FROM DOING THEIR DUTY AT CHECKPOINTS WITHOUT BEING HARRASED FROM THESE BLEEDING-HEART "CARE FOR THE ARABS" WOMEN.

your fence...thanks to begin to build your fence around shufat...we will see it from jerusalem...this is the best...all of you, we have to see this sick fence you are building...remembering you that you are totally sick...

Move it to land not occupied, not disputed, to land clearly belonging to Israel. As long as this does not happen, t fence is not a "measure against terror", it is a continuing act of war against the Palestinians, and therefore against the rest of the world. The rest of the world is more and more becoming aware of this, so move the fence to your own land, before it doesn't matter anymore, and not just the fence (and the other land grabs) is seen as an obstacle to peace, but the whole state of Israel.

The fence will not stop terror as the fence will prevent the creation of a Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital. Hence Palestine will still need to fight for their freedom. And Palestine does not have money or power - only desire for freedom which Israel doesn't want to see. The Apartheid Wall is a red herring. A total end to the Occupation is the only prospect for peace that Israel has. If Israel refuses to do that then she will not get nor will she deserve peace. Simple as that.

"To strive for an agreed upon border must be our goal," 1, With whom? 2. If that were the real problem, we could have had peace years ago, most lately with Arafat in 2000. But no Palestinian leader is willing to relinquish demands for a "right of return" and, perhaps excepting Abbas, no Palerstinian leader is willing to recognize the permanent existence of the state of Israel.

I hope I used the term before all the Israel-bashers do today. Kefar-Sava is a scant 5 km. from the West Bank town of Qalqiliya, from which all sorts of terrorist murderers set out to murder Jews. Not Israelis, Jews; the fact that Israeli Arab citizens were killed as well was merely "collateral damage". All for the sake of Allah. Since our "apartheid wall" was put up, there have been no terrorist attacks in Kefar-Sava. It's more difficult to get to now, and Tel-Aviv and Jerusalem offer much more "attractive" targets. Free Kurdistan!

Prerequisite for such a step is either consent or a clear cut majority for it. The elections' did not show either. Furthermore, these "political borders" may become a battle line if no consent exists from across the border! To strive for an agreed upon border must be our goal, which needs detailed planning and infrastructure. - Are we close to a state of affairs which justifies such a fixed period for implementation?

Perhaps there needs to be a concept of security fence first premised on a temporary fence prior to completion of court cases and convergence front arrangements. Such a temporary fence being moved whenever court cases conclude and convergence front positions are established After all the principle of moving existing portions of the fence (should convergence front positions be at variance) has already been recognised as Kadima (coalition?) policy.