Time to poll Israelis on continuing occupation

"Judea/Samaria can be fairly claimed to be part of Israel ... " (Chaim Ben Kahan) Poppycock. According to the CIA's Word Factbook, Gaza and the WB are now home of some four million non-Israeli inhabitants. These territories, which never were part of the state of Israel, hopefully never will be. No one, except a bunch of dimwitted, want these million of Arabs to become Israeli citizens, nor has anyone come up yet with a practical way, acceptable to the rest of the world, to make them just disappear. It is high time for Ben Kahan and his radical like-minded friends to put that in what is left of their brains.

"Peace NOW!!.....will this happen before or after shia muslims make peace with sunni muslims?" (rich) This will happen, dummy, when enough Israelis want peace more than they want as big a chunck as possible of the now occupied West Bank.

Is the Zionists philosophy against the Palestine population not the purest form of anti-Semitism against there religious father Shem's children and there brother's. By there stealing at force of arms and perverted law Palestine land rights. Who are really the Anti-Semites? When called Anti Semitic. My favorite reply to this ignorant statement is. "I have Jewish & Palestinian friends, they are both the children of SHEM. Please don't fall for the Zionist Big Lie and deny the true heritage of the Palestinians as Semitic, they are also the children of Shem. Shalom Ron Ronald Douglas Kennedy

This appears to be a desparate outcry of whole-hearted struggler for peace, who finally lost his hope that this conflict could ever be solved within the limitations of Israels parlamentary system. A poll on occupation however fosters the danger of a vote against the termination of the occupation and its unforeseeable consequences, not to mention the damage of the countries intenational reputation.

"If we go according to Hamas all of Israel is occupied land." (Mark) Right. This is indeed what Hamas is claiming. But why should anyone believe them? Unless, of course, he is an Islamist - or feeble-minded. Which are you? "Clue us in - we await with bated breath!" (Mark)

"Out of 120 representatives only three belong to Meretz!!! " (Sarale) Yes. Then what? Don't you know yet that the biggest number can also, sometimes, be the biggest idiot? Think Milosevic and his wars, supported by all the Serbians, against Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo. The fools. "A phenomenon noticeable throughout history, regardless of place or period, is the pursuit by governments of policies contrary to their own interests." The historian Barbara W. Tuchman in 'The March of Folly'.

The outcome of a one state solution is a secular democratic federal state based on equality, liberty, and justice for all. The new generations of Palestinians and Israelis will learn to live together as ONE NATION UNDER GOD. Stand up for peace! Issa Dadoush

The referendum's a good idea. Wadi Ara talkbacker Fire and Water had a good point too. Why do people who really want peace and are willing to relinquish the occupied territories vote Likud and further right these days? Voters figure that if a right-winger signs a peace treaty giving up the West Bank and Gaza it'll mean it's safe to do so. They have been so frightened by the constant diet of tales about rampant worldwide antisemitism and imminent disaster from our "independent" press and media analysts that they think they are in constant mortal danger here (and that Jews who live abroad have it safe and easy - in fact it's more like the opposite). Up to the press and the media to put the balance back in the middle. For the longest time, too much has been measured on a broken scale. The solution isn't putting more weight on the left, it's getting the middle point back where it should be. Shana tova and thanks, Gideon Levy. Things should only get better for both sides.

In 1948, after we had been forced from our homes. We sat on the land we now fight for. Why were we not given this land? This was not the Jew who kept us from this land, we now sit upon. Why didn't King Hussein and King Farouk give us a land of our own? Why was Ramallah jordanian? why was Gaza Egyptian? did they not see that we were a people, in need of an independent state? It makes me wonder.

Yes Gideon, your charade must stop. Israel had an election, and the right won a thunderous victory. Even Avigdor Lieberman, maligned by the leftist media, has managed to execute his job as foreign minister despite police and media harassment orchestrated by a nudnick left that can't admit is has lost. The Anti-Self Defamation League www.asdl.biz

First of all,kiwi girl,there is no ethnic entity that should be called "Palestinians".If so,what is their language,their religion,their tradition?When had there been a Palestinian state in the past?Why is there no mention of any "Palestinian" by any historian in the ancient and recent past? Second,what "apology" did you make to the aboriginal people of the land that you came to invade,to which land you had no historical connection like we Jews have to Eretz Israel? Third,what do you know about Zionism?Nothing,yet you suck into the "Zionism is terrorism" argument. I've heard that kiwis are intelligent birds.You are not.

'The politicians, too, will once and for all have to answer truthfully' that is exactly why Gideon's proposal will never happen: the Israeli politicians are served with the vague situation that Levi describes. Anyone who spent a week in Israel, following the Israeli internal public debate, knows it. Israel DOES need an Obama to force it to set things straight, israel cannot do it on its own. Why not? I am afraid that Israelis don't WANT to be confronted with the truth, the occupation is part of the age old national mythology of 'Jews having the right to settle anywhere in the land of Israel'. Israelis feel basically is to give up the occupied territories is to give up Zionism. If the Zionist dream of Hebron is a lie (and deep down inside most Israelis understand that the occupation of Hebron is a crime that needs to be ended), then the dream of Haifa, Jaffa, Tsefat and even Jerusalem also means nothing. Although this is completely untrue, it is felt this way.

Brod: Who are the rightful owners of the Land of Israel? Israel is - within its 1947 boundaries. The rest remains Palestine. So say the UN and international courts and they are the legal arbiters. Brod: What do History, Scriptures and Biblical Archaeology have to say about it? That the Jews enjoyed a brief period of rule in Judea & Samaria, were only one of several nations that ruled the area, many predating the Jews, have been absent the land a couple of thousand years and that the Pals are descendants of the indigenous people. (The odd man out is the Scriptures, which try to freeze history at one point in time and make spectacularly self-serving claims for those who penned them). Brod: Who gave the Islamist-Jihadists the right to claim that the Land of Israel belongs to them? Their claim is not recognized in international law any more than Israel's claim to the WB. Islamist expansionists and Zionist expansionists are birds of a feather. Hope that clarifies things for you.

Should Israel be bound by international law or is it entitled to be the sole state in the world that is not? International law says that the West Bank is occupied and that settlement building is accordingly illegal. Nothing more needs discussed, except the timetable for the removal of the settlers. It also says that Israel, in its 1947 boundaries, is sovereign and therefore any Arab claims to Israel proper are equally illegal. If followed, the problems would be resolved fairly quickly. The problem is that the Zionist narrative CANNOT accept the rule of law without being fatally undermined. It would spell the end of the Eretz Israel seizure plan, of free land, cheap settlement housing, water seizure etc. If Israelis voted for the 'rule of law' route, then great, the settlement problem starts to solve itself. If they voted for the 'Eretz Israel' option, then fine, the world via the UN at last has a clear case for imposing sanctions and heavy pressures. A win-win situation.

A one state solution would never work. Both sides have elements that believe in all or nothing. The 2 state solution is better for both people, if the 2 state solution mean full Palestinian sovereignty over their land without Israeli interference, only cooperation between both states. However as history has shown us, Israel wants at most, Palestinian autonomy in the occupied territories while Israel controls the Palestinians via proxies i.e Abbas and company.

Dear Mr gieon, you are exactly the same as Mr Obammy in America. Your ideals are identical. Why dont you mind your own business.

Another idea for a referendum would go like this, The question would be presented to the Moslem and Christian populations of Israel. "Do you wish to continue living in the State of Israel, or would you prefer to live in the State of Palestine?" I believe that this would be an interesting issue to raise. It would force Israel's Arabs to finally choose under which national format they would like to live. No matter the outcome of the vote, the discussion and debates leading up to the vote would be enlightening.

"We are not in the least bit confused. We are thankfully aware we live on the ancient lands of the prophets." (mrsmalaprop) Yes, you do sound confused. Jews living on the ancient lands of the prophets is not what Zionism is about. Jews were living here way before Herzl was born. Zionism is first of all about a national homeland where Jews are a clear majority, controlling their own fate. Don't end the occupation. But don't be surprised when, in one or two decades, given the demographics, Jews, those still here, are a minority ruled by a Palestinian prime minister, in a "one-man-one-vote" country. On the ancient lands of the prophets. With the Nations telling them, "Sorry guys, but you had your chance." Suggested reading: "Battle of the numbers: Jewish minority by 2020", [between the sea and the Jordan river] by Professor Sergio Dellapergola, of the A. Harman Institute of Contemporary Jewry, the Hebrew U in Jerusalem, and Senior Fellow at the Jewish People Policy Planning Institute. www.a-ipi.net/article30324.html

I live in Australia,let me tell you that a referendum does more to divide a country than a civil war! Statistics can prove or disprove anything. Let the will of the people in the elections live.

Its disputed territory till the borders are negotiated. Too bad the Arabs waited 60 years to decide they wanted to recognise borders.

"johnboy, there is no problem. The jewish people own the lands of ancient israel." (ombudsman) Of course there is a problem. Only radicals taught by false teachers have been rendered blind to it. The West Bank, once Judea and Samaria, is now home of some two and a half million non-Israelis. See www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/we.html Only dimwitted are suggesting to forcibly move them out. Or, alternatively, to grant them Israeli citizenship. Then, because you have to be a Jew to believe that "the lands of ancient israel" belong to the state of Israel. Should we call on the entire world to convert? Our leaders have sometimes been stupid, but ayatullahs they are not. Thanks God. Rabbi Yehuda Gelman said: "Obsessive concentration on Eretz Yisrael should yield to concentrating on creating before God a meritorious nation." www.yeshiva.org.il/midrash/shiur.asp?cat=58&id=4825&q= What is so meritorious, I ask you, in being the only democratic country to lord over a foreign and stateless people?

QUESTION? whats the range of the Palistinians longest range rocket? We all know that they have shot hundreds of them in the past, but would they promise to not do it again?

the r is little value in voting either eric when the usa votes for an empty suit who was never born ? well thats what he pretends ! try 2 cups of coffee in the morning to clear your head before posting !

On any issue, democracy invariably entangles political horsetrading with the public will. This will give a simple yes no to a simple question. The USA has the same problem. Most Americans support some sort of public option for health care, but somehow the consensus of the people is not reflected in the votes of their legislators.

Dear Gideon, 9/14,2009 You're absolutely right.

And Israel is not a democracy. They are democracy killers, like when they squashed the democratic elections in Palestine. The antithesis of democratic = Israel.

To #3: Yes, there was just an election, and Kadima received the most votes, but Kadima could not form a coalition. Most Israelis have already voted for a two-state solution.

In November our voters will be going to the polls. Perhaps we too should have several referendums: government run health "care" so our citizens can have the same sub-standard health care as the Brits; a referendum on whether to keep giving billions in taxpayer funds to socialist and anarchists; a refernedum on whether Pelosi should be allowed to refer to all that oppose me as "Nazis;" And one to decide of the Rev. Wright should be named the national chaplain.

You know the history so I will spare you the facts but Judea/Samaria can be fairly claimed to be part of Israel and occupied by Arabs. We know of the Jordanian land grab and history as to how this land in question was recently, historically and in all three scriptures to have Israel as a homeland and no other nation in this land has existed since Israel. Please stop your hatred of those who fight for their rights to live anywhere in the Jewish homeland!

how would a referendum change the complacency of those opposed to the occupation/settlements? and face it; there's a reason for the political silence of those who oppose them. opinion polls are one thing, but a vote is more telling...and peer pressure runs deep in israel. the same tools the zionist zealots and the extreme right use to deflect world criticism of their agenda are especially effective in israel. considering the emotional, vociferous and often hostile stance displayed by pro-occupation/settler israelis towards naysayers, along with the threat of being ostracized and labeled, there'll likely be a tendency to hesitate voting against the occupation...or even MORE likely to just avoid it altogether. this would be especially true in smaller towns and communities. a poll is random and completely anon... but a vote provides actual numbers; per town, neighborhood, and polling place.

The original founders and leaders of Israel resisted a sustained occupation in 1968. They believed an occupation would usurp resources desparately needed by the Israeli nation. Their wisdom has come to pass. The military commitment and infrastructure required to support a scattered network of settlers far exceeds the percapita cost of supporting Israel proper. Then the settlers with IDF protection perpertrate some of the most contemptuous human rights abuses. Israel has a place in the world for Jews, and it is fully condoned by the UN. Does Israel need to have its future dictated by religious zealots blindly committed to expansionism? Or does Israel want to be the conduit for a lasting peace where Israelis and Arabs can rationally resolve differences? The opportunity exists here and now. Treat Palestinians reasonably and equitably. Our traditions of truth and justice are more valued and time-honored than the insatiable appetite for land that some zealots worship.

to the Palestinian people for the near century of crimes and cruelty committed against them by Jews who decided to inflict a terrorist ideology called Zionism, not to be mistaken with Judaism. Something like we did with the aboriginal people, for past wrongs, and where over a million people walked in a march side by side with them. Many aboriginal people have said that this was the closest thing to healing the damage that was done...recognition of what they lost, and the impact on aboriginal society as a whole. That would then set a better mood for negotiations. Recognise what you have done Israel...the harm, the hurt, the damage, the loss....is this how your God really wants your to treat your fellow human beings?

It seems that the Leftists are trying to have a monopoly on the discussion pertaining to occupation. It is time Levy gets talkbacks that come from the other side of the spectrum so that this issue can be debated properly. I would like to start this discussion by asking: what occupation is Levy talking about? Who are the rightful owners of the Land of Israel? What do History, Scriptures and Biblical Archaeology have to say about it? Who gave the Islamist-Jihadists the right to claim that the Land of Israel belongs to them?

The Arabs signed a Peace Proposal document in March 2002, where all 22 countries of the Arab League signed the recognition of Israel etc etc Livni & Olmert met in Annapolis Maryland with 17 kings, Presidents or foreign ministers from the "Arab League 22." This is the "Arab referendum" and Israel listen to it for 6 hours one November Day in 2007, Arthur. Let's met and make peace.

Is what obvious from this and most articles written by Gideon Levy and Co . There are no issues with occupation and never have been , or wanting a state ....or anything else for that matter . The issue is just to get infidels off the Muslim land . The rest is all a huge load of horse manure , and we all know it , including Levy . But that would not sell papers , and it would be less politically correct .

Looks like the pressure has caught up with Netanyahu. First, flying off to Moscow; now tearing off to Egypt. Running around like a chicken with its head cut off. Either he's going to abide by the road map or the next thing we hear is that he's been vacationing in a padded cell.

When all the Arab world ganged up on this tiny Israel . What was then the reason for Arab blood thirst ???? The same reasons exist today , regardless of how much Levy and his mislead cohorts parrot the word occupation .

Can Levy explain what occupation is he talking about?

Actually, it's easy to see why you'd be able to want to end the occupation while, in parallel, voting for governments that vaunt themselves as the most determined guarantors of our security. That's how you can make certain that the occupation will end when it's safe. (And it will never be safe because, let's face it, risk and caution are at bottom antithetical.) The referendum has to baldly ask whether the public wants the occupied territories more than they want peaceful relations between two independent nations or whether they yearn for those peaceful relations and the chance that their sons will not have to fight wars every few years more than they do for the domination of as well as the management of its spin-offs in places like Silwan, Ras El Amud, Hebron, Nablus/Shkhem, Jenin and the rest of the West Bank and Gaza. So yes, it's high time for a big bang of that kind, in order to prevent a big bang of another kind. I believe it's called a controlled explosion by people who know

from your lecture it is obvious we are neither of us experts on the second temple period. we believe during the temple second period the jews were the majority in the region.you are free to disagree. we were also as you may imagine rather happy to find the dead sea scrolls which now form the most precious ancient finds in the israel museum in jerusalem. roo it is rather interesting to read that there is little difference when one compares the old testament to to the texts found in the scrolls. the sight of the more spiritual among us may feel a shiver down our spine when we view the scrolls at the museum. i recommend you visit but cannot guarantee in your case any spiritual satisfaction.

a carving of a menorah was found in the galilee region.the menorah is a symbol of the jewish people.no other people have used the menorah. when e find symbols of the jewish people in israel we are or some of us are thrilled to the bone. as for your lecture on the cananites what does that appartain to?

I was quite sure before I read where you live, that you live in the US and not here.You guys always say "We" when it suits you, are you an Isreli? did you vote in the last elections here??? Actually - it was Zippi Livni and Kadima who won the elections - but BB in his shrewed manner, promised heaven and earth and bought the electoral votes of the extreme right and the religeous, and formed a right-wing Government ... Same happened when Gov Bush, the brother of GW, called for new elections in Florida due to some little old ladys' wrong puncture of the ballot ticket. And subsequently - Gore lost.. Please stick to the facts...

Actually, it's easy to see why you'd be able to want to end the occupation while, in parallel, voting for governments that vaunt themselves as the most determined guarantors of our security. That's how you can be certain that the occupation will end when it's safe. (And it will never be safe because, let's face it, risk and caution are at bottom antithetical.) The referendum has to baldly ask whether the public wants the occupied territories more than they want peaceful relations between two independent nations or whether they yearn for those peaceful relations and the chance that their sons will not have to fight wars every few years more than they do for the domination of - plus management of its spin-offs - places like Silwan, Ras El Amud, Hebron, Nablus/Shkhem, Jenin and the rest of the West Bank and Gaza. So yes, it's high time for a Big Bang of that kind, in order to prevent a Big Bang of another kind. Isn't that what's called a controlled explosion?

They will never let go of the Zionist dream, so the only thing we can hope for is Bibi making some hugely tactical mistake which show's everyday Israel cruelty to the world. Then maybe the Israeli government will actually be willing to shed some of it's unpopular skin

If you didnt want war you wouldnt keep stealing land from the Arabs. What you are saying is "we just want to take your land and not be attacked for it.' Your position is absurd.

"an accurate accounting the arab pal history in the region (which is for a a vast majority the early 20th century, not before)" Is that the 'Joan Peters' hypothesis? The one roundly trashed by all and sundry so that Joan Peters never again broached the subject matter. You do realise that the 'vast majority' of Israeli Jews only trace their origins to the 2nd half of the 20th C don't you?

Palestinians should do their referendum Too ,one state or two state and stick to it as well . You will be surprise MR Levy ... You don't steal the House and negotiate about the Motorcycle ..It is the house stupid .You thought we forgot . You mention only what you have done in the last 40 years ..What about 60 years ago ,was that OK ?? Good Idea ..but Too late .

how would a referendum change the complacency of those opposed to the occupation/settlements? and face it; there's a reason for the political silence of those who oppose them. opinion polls are one thing, but a vote is more telling...and peer pressure runs deep in israel. the same tools the zionist zealots and the extreme right use to deflect world criticism of their agenda are especially effective in israel. considering the emotional, vociferous and often hostile stance displayed by pro-occupation/settler israelis towards naysayers, along with the threat of being ostracized and labeled, there'll likely be a tendency to hesitate voting against the occupation...or even MORE likely to just avoid it altogether. this would be especially true in smaller towns and communities. a poll is random and completely anon... but a vote provides actual numbers; per town, neighborhood, and polling place.

the holy land, then lets discuss in truth arab/muslim/pal transgression inthe past century as well as an accurate accounting the arab pal history in the region (which is for a a vast majority the early 20th century, not before), then we can talk about about israeli "occupation" and wrongdoing

goy tells us more palestinians have died. we have never asked for a fight.we have never wanted to go to war.every single war including the "option wars" were directed at stopping threats. that is self evident.small families like ours never welcome wars.our one and two children families cannot afford wars.

If you say that the Israelis should vote on the existence of settlements, you ignore the basic problem. The Arabs regard all of Israel as a settlement. including Tel Aviv, which they claim was an Arab city. I know they ignore the history of Tel Aviv, built on sand dunes purchased from the Ottoman Empire land holders. But most Israelis are well acquainted with both the Hamas and Fatah charters and most have read the latest news coming out of the conference earlier this summer. That is why support for the Left is about 4 per cent in Israel.

...I only proposed the wording of a poll. We don't want a repetition of Gaza's disengagement history! The 2 concepts, "peace" and "ending occupation", are tied. Intimately...

2nd temple Judea was inhabited by all manner of people including Jews. Most of the Jews that remained in what is todays Israel during the Babylonian exile were in fact Samaritans who are not today regarded as Jewish at all. One should also consider the massive amount of asherah found in and around Jerusalem from well before the Roman period and right back to the first temple era which testify Jerusalemites were routinely engaged in idolatry and had little in common with post exilic notions of Judaism. Were those pagans Jewish too? It seems the equivalent of Palestinians claiming they are the Canaanites! You sound as if you know very little of archaeology or biblical history. Try reading Israel Finklestein or Silberman on archaeology or R.E Friedman on biblical history(all Jewish by the way). It will open your eyes to real history as opposed to conjecture driven by yearning rather than learning!

Peace NOW!!.....will this happen before or after shia muslims make peace with sunni muslims ?

First of all, the last elections showed what the Israëlis want. Second, if anybody should be polled on their "peacefull" intentions , it is the Palestinians, Syrians, Lebanese and all Arab countries that have not recongnised the right to exist of Israël as a democratic Jewish country

So you wanna talk numbers ... Since the creation of the state Israel in May '48 and the summer of 2005, over 50000 palestinians have died ... That is times 20 the amount of israeli victims ...

When you say referendum, are you gonna count the votes of Israeli Arabs, or how about world Jewry they should have a vote. Better yet what if there is life on other planets and Jews live there shouldn't we wait until we know for sure what there thoughts are? Bottom line is clear the occupation is illegal, get out while you still have some friends left in this world, America is bankrupt and the new Russia is just a copy of the old one.

The context of the debate is internal Israeli politics and not a place to grandstand the moral right or wrong of Jewish building in the Territories. Mr. Levy isn't debating the right or wrong of the occupation. He's asking for the Israeli electorate to clarify their position to keep the politicians from all the major parties from being intentionally vague weasels. I think we can all appreciate that. The politicians ultimately want to keep their jobs, and most would turn either way if a clear majority wanted either extreme. Other than a few small parties, and some notable faithful few (mostly not in leadership positions) the Knesset is ruled by incumbency protection, not any sort of principle. Levy obviously believes the occupation is both immoral and illegal but he's doing a good job of NOT kicking a dead horse to argue that. Even if you disagree with that point of view, please be civil enough to understand he's only trying to keep the politicians (and Israeli public) honest.

if there is yes for the occupation then israel must annex to make it formal and legal. it should also be made clear that israel will be absorbing another 3.5 million non jews. those for annexation should also explain how the extra 3.5 million non jews will be integrated into israeli society.

What is this nonsense except to unmask the Israeli pretense that Israel.s want peace. Sure they want peace--but they want the greater Israel as well---free gratis. Sorry guys and Gals---there is a price to be paid and it might well be that The Zionist Regime will be wiped from the pages of time. I report---you decide.

Israeli demographers have been warning for years that by 2016, Jews will no longer be a majority of the population living in the region between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea. As an occupying power and the only democracy in the Middle East, Israel is at a cross road. I believe that a historic, hard won but lasting peace is within their grasp by seizing the opportunity opened up by Annapolis built on a two-state solution based on the 1967 borders and with Jerusalem the capital for both States. The alternative is the One State Solution. Israel can keep it all from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea, a secular democratic federal state based on equality, liberty, and justice for all. One Country for all Jews and for all Palestinians everywhere. The United States of America, the melting pot of many nations, did it and you too can make it happen. Start the healing now...Choose Coexistence!

There is absolutely no doubt about the FACT that our occupation of Palestine and our brutal rule over the Palestinian people are ILLEGAL. Mr. Levy has put on the table a great idea: let's find out, once and for all, how do we all feel about the occupation. Even if the 50% + 1 of us support the occupation, it will NEVER make it legal. However, we will at least know where we stand and we will then stop this on-going joke of endless peace talks while our illegal settlements expand and while we continue to dispense misery and death on helpless Palestinians. Peace NOW!!

... as long as the settlements exist...

Per capita Tsipi had slightly more votes than Netanyahu, but she did not have the patience nor the stomach for clobbering a coalition together... It's possible that a referendum, even today, would surprise you and the professional pudits... Lots of sane Israelis waiting out there... After all it's not necessarily the fanatic talkbackers who would carry the day... The growing danger, however, is the charedi vote, where the rebbe orders a whole teeming Yeshiva just how to vote...

of Israelis think that the occupation should continue or stop , should not be the determining factor here. It is whether the coccupation is right or wrong . It is wrong and should end and this should not be determined by a poll... This is the problem with israeli society , you do not question the morality of the situation but question whether it is popular or not , whether it is legal or not . There are many laws and policies that are fundementaly and moraly wrong , yet they are on the books.....

No outcome of an Israeli referendum can change international laws. The settlements are illegal now and no Israeli vote can change that. Israel cannot legally annex any territory, no matter what the Israeli public wants.

The settlements are internationally illegal. A Yes vote by Israelis does not change that.

It is not that easy, / look in what happened when Sharon gave back Gaza , nothing but grief Hamas won and took over and started attacks against Israel and it all went from bad to very bad , at least when the jewish settements were there they were protecting Israel against such attacks / hamas does not undestand what kindness means !

As long that one side in the conflict is saying all or nothing,it will be nothing.In the current situation,both sides saying it,so what is the chances for peace?.There is no way around compromise.If we are steadfast on Jerusalem, right of return,and settlement,even a Palestinian de facto state won't bring the peace and without peace there will be continuing occupation.

and they decided to continue the occupation. Well, that means all the papers must have made up the results then. Because from what I understand Tzipi Livni won the election you are all quoting and Netanyahu came second. However, netanyahu was prepared to allow more brown envelope stuffers join the government than Livni and his name was put on the PMO's door. Which is fortunate in some ways because a man of the calibre of Avigdor Lieberman who can just turn up in any country (like Ethiopia) and immediately have cabinnet level briefings (like in Uganda where no senior Ministers turned up at a ceremony commemorating the death of the brother of the current Prime Minister of Israel)

First poll Palestinians on continuing terror, on recognition of Israel,and when you have the result for that it would be easy to know the answer of the Israelis on occupation.

Western businessmen are sometimes warned before travelling to the Middle East to expect that for the people they talk to, time is divided into "now," "tomorrow," and "the vague future for which there is no point in planning." Mr. Levy appears to be one of those Middle Easterners. Suppose we have a referendum on Mr. Levy's question, and the answer is "no," the majority do not want to continue *all* of the occupation. Then what?

for over 60 years.we have moved from agriculture to advanced technology.we have fought several wars that have claimed almost 25000 of our fellow jews.the yom kippur war in 1973 alone claimed 2600 dead. how likely is it we would listen to the bigots on this site.

it seems to me that the jews have earned their place in the middle east.i do not understand the constant animosity there still is for the jewish nation.leave them alone to sort out their problems with their antagonists.

peter we are not in the least bit confused.we are thankfully aware we live on the ancient lands of the prophets.this is the birthplace of judaism.those without the spiritual connection to our brethren who walked these lands thousands of years ago cannot be expected to agree with us. however please have your say.that is how it should be.

the jewish people own the lands of ancient israel.a highlight of this weekend was the second temple menorah found in galilee.it is thrilling to imagine the workman carving out the menorah.truly a gift.

Separatist governments in Quebec hold referendums on separating from Canada.They are waiting for their next chance.Federalists don't hold referendums on separation. This Israeli government wants to settle the West Bank not leave it.All Israelis knew this.If Israelis want a far-left agenda, they should vote for it next time.The impatience of some Haaretz writers tries to turn this government into something it is not.

"Israel left Gaza and things got worse." (bernard ross) Yes, this is what Israel did. But this is only half the true, which means it is not true at all. No one forced Israel to UNILATERALLY withdraw of Gaza, while publicly insulting ("a featherless chick") the man the Palestinians had elected for Chairman just six months earlier, nor to open the gates of Gaza wide before the worse of our enemies. We handed back the whole of Sinai to President Sadat, and got peace. We abandoned Gaza to nobody, and got war with an Islamist enclave we now cannot live with nor defeat. Every folly and its price.

Without getting into the politics of settlement, it is clear that in Israel we elect governments and empower the government to decide what should or shouldn't be done about this and other "life and death" issues. M. Begin made the peace with Egypt without a referendum because he took into account all of the factors at play. Had he called for a referendum it is not at all clear that it would have passed the test of the electorate. So for better or worse, we have given this government a mandate to rule and rule they must. That's what they get paid for.

of israeli politics keep trying to influence the state? gideon levy know extremely well that no one in israel remotely agrees with him yet he continues to pester us,enough already.

Dear Mr.Levy.It is confusion.It is because there is serious risk in every solution.There is risk of not having solution at all. PA gets state, Israel gets it "demilitarised ". Israel gets Jerusalem, PA gets link with Gaza; no refuges into Israel but PA gets territory in exchange for territory Israel would hold. If PA disagrees remember Churchill who recommended prestate Israel :" Perseverence ". He said it three times in one sentence.

As several posters did point out quite accurate- ly, the Israeli people already had their "referendum" (at the ballot box) earlier this year.... ....and honestly, I see no reason, why the result of the next one should be anymore "flattering".

" ... as if the choices are to Israel alone." (bernard ross) Poor little tiny Israel which, after 41 years is still, against its own will, the only democratic country to rule over a foreign and stateless population. "Settlements prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state in the Land of Israel. This is the goal. And this is the reality." Daniella Weiss, a major pro-settlement activist and former mayor of Kedumim (an Israeli settlement in the WB) to '60 Minutes' correspondent Bob Simon. "Those who dragged Israel into creating the huge, foolish enterprise over the Green Line, sowed settlements amid the Palestinian population, on occupied territory, only to thwart any future diplomatic agreement on a division into two states, will apparently not let Israel fix this historic mistake." From "The settlers are not resting", Haaretz editorial, 04/10/2006. www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/770058.html

Yup. Let's finally have some clarity. Does the majority of this country wish to continue controlling the Palestinians, who will soon be more in number than we are, against that majority people's wishes? That was the case of South African apartheid, which the world resisted. If Israel votes in a referendum to continue the Occupation, it'd be fascinating to see who continues to immigrate or emigrate (and who would continue bankrolling us..). Over a million Israelis already live abroad, including 30% of university faculty, who voted with their feet. A referendum endorsing Occupation would probably cause even more... Suicidally, it seems we're intent on bringing down the Temple that is Israel yet again. Because none of our leaders are calling for ending the Occupation. REFERENDUM NOW.

However, such an honest question will never be put by scheming politicians to a cowardly public.

Because in most of the western world extreme rightist positions are considered to be really dangerous, Esther!

Out of 120 representatives only three belong to Meretz!!!

... ask therefore: "Considering that ALL Israelis want Peace and Security, and that must be assured, should Israel strive to end the occupation?"

Most Israelis speak of being against the occupation but these are also happy to have the fanatic fringe continuing to live on the other side of the fence. These same people are also quick to criticize the occupation but only when their government does utterly embarrassing things like a Gaza, a Beit Hannoun, a Jabaliya or a Sabra & Shatilla job. They are not being honest and readily discuss the evils of the occupation here on Talkback and elsewhere to feel less bad about themselves. I know of one Israeli that helps out Palestinians with the annual olive harvest on the WB but at the same time cannot accept to have one Palestinian return to live in her exclusively Jewish town that was built on the ruins of a Palestinian village. These seemingly good but contradicting Israelis would want it both ways but in the end in the referendum being proposed for by Levy, they would vote in favour of continuing the occupation.

I'm a Lebanese academic living in California and I wanted to salute you for your courage and honesty. I wish we had reporters like you in the Arab world. But all we have are collaborationist journalists who serve as pathetic propaganda tools for Zionism and Arab regimes. (Thanks Ben)

I assume you voted for Meretz. Meretz failed miserably in the elections, and I think this is why - they would forge a peace deal with our Palestinian neighbors, under any circumstance and at any cost, regardless of what realities surround us. If you would put your ear to the ground, perhaps you would here a different tune - Some of us are concerned that the Palestinian Authority after all these years of peace talks, still has not removed from its official constitution the resolution that Israel must be destroyed. Some people are concerned that in Fata's recent Sixth General Conference, their main resolution was not to give up the armed struggle. http://www.memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=countries&Area=palestinian&ID=IA54509 What about our friends in Gaza? Gideon, perhaps instead of berating Israel ad infinitum, as you seem to continually do, why don't you put some of your sharp critique into analyzing and assessing the problems of the Palestinian leaderships.

The Israel public is confused and wants both endless settlement and expansion and peace. Unfortunately, the Palestinians cannot agree to continuued encroachment and theft of their land which diminishes their sovereignity and territory and is in defiance of international and yes, Jewish Law. Remember, "Thou shalt not steal?". So, a referendum might come up with one or the other answer, but Israeli's are still confused and want it both ways. It just doesn't work that way. I'm just a bored again crustacean.

Let the Iranians have a referendum first: peace or war with Israel. Who do you think will win, Gideon? I'll give you a little clue: this time the side with more votes.

" ... as if the choices are to Israel alone." (bernard ross) Poor little tiny Israel which, after 41 years is still, against its own will, the only democratic country to rule over a foreign and stateless population. "Settlements prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state in the Land of Israel. This is the goal. And this is the reality." Daniella Weiss, a major pro-settlement activist and former mayor of Kedumim (an Israeli settlement in the WB) to '60 Minutes' correspondent Bob Simon. "Those who dragged Israel into creating the huge, foolish enterprise over the Green Line, sowed settlements amid the Palestinian population, on occupied territory, only to thwart any future diplomatic agreement on a division into two states, will apparently not let Israel fix this historic mistake." From "The settlers are not resting", Haaretz editorial, 04/10/2006. www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/770058.html

It is found in Article 41 of the Hague Regulations, 1907. "Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army." "The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised." There can be no question that when the IDF ejected the Royal Jordanian Army from the West Bank in 1967 that it fulfilled those requirements i.e. everything that the IDF overran during the Six Day War is "Israeli-occupied territory". It remains "Israeli-occupied territory" to this very day.

It is completely irrelevant what Israelis want because we're dealing here with the Palestinian people who don't vote in the elections and won't vote in the referendum. So, even if all Israelis would support the occupation and it would be a 100% democratic decision to continue, the very act of occupation is criminal and wrong and just because the majority supports it doesn't justify it. Just like if all the people in Israel will vote in favor of killing a random innocent person, it would still be a criminal act even if all the Israelis supported it. Now, we can argue forever about whether the occupation is criminal or not, and I certainly believe it is but whether most Israelis support it or not is completely irrelevant.

I agree we should indeed have recourse to referendums to know exactly what the people realy think and want. That is what democracy is all about. To often, far-reaching political decisions are decided by votes by unscrupulous politicians who betray the people who elected them on a very specific platform. Oslo and Gaza pull-out are only two examples with obvious desastrous consequences. I still want to see some heads roll for those deceits! I am not quite so sure Levy would really want a referendum, he is bluffing, for he knows very few people (besides the traditional lunatics)would want any further concessions to be made without tangible solid guaranties and real peace..

Perhaps Mr. Gideon Levy could propose that the Palestinians hold a referendum on giving up the Hamas demand that Israel be "obliterated." Or does Mr. Levy think that Palestinians have no responsibility to consider change because their current stance is eminently reasonable?

About this GOD givin land. This is what they believe in with all their hearts. They believe and trust in their GOD. Who is the same GOD ALLAH, who is STILL waiting for two brothers to make peace with each other. Blessed are the peace makers.

Enough is enough and it's time to get the Palestinians to shape up. Ivar from Estonia is correct: It's time for the Palestinians to put up or forgo the billions in free handouts they get. Time for total 100 percent transparent accounting. Enough of institutionalized graft and corruption. Enough of Hamas racist theocracy. Enough of teaching their children that "martyrdom" is the way to peace. Enough of rule by thuggery and clans. Enough of trying to convince the naive world that "resistance to the occupation by any means" isn't a war crime. It is, and we all know it.

does anybpdy in Israel know what is meant by occupation?

We need to define occupation first - who is occupying whose land? Is Judea and Samaria occupied illegally by Arab or Jews? Are we talking about pre 1967 borders or pre 67 borders?

You do not hold referendums on having judges eighter, do you?

I am 100% pro-Israel, but the truth is that sooner or later Israel will have to withdraw from the Palestinian territories. It doesn't matter whether Israelis will favor it in a referendum or not.

This guy Levy fooled all of you. He wants a referendum about what he calls "occupation," and you all obligingly discuss for or against. First, one has to establish whether this is an "occupation". Is it?

No matter what the majority of Israeli's think they want, they are quite confused. The ongoing settlement activity is illegal and likely to end in Israel destroying some and returning the land like in Gaza and Yamit. But years of nationalist delusion and propaganda have had the secular and religious united in creeping annexation that only incites further Palestinian violence and prevents any peace accord. A referendum would only measure the confusion, and would lend no moral credibility. The majority is generally wrong, Ibsen.

The lands that are "disputed" by the arabs living there are NOT OCCUPIED, since there was no country there before! UN split it. They said no, pour Jews into the sea, they lost, we took over. This is how borders are drawn. GOT IT? If the leaders of Israel were not confused like you we wouldn't be in the mess!

As one day, the systematic depredations and ever increasing profits of the American Medical Industrial Complex will eventually turn the nation against it, the Deranged Depraved Desires of the Israeli War Hawks will bring such it down. Hogs get slaughtered.

Gideon is right. 42 years is enough already! It's time to bring this charade to closure, even if it means making a clear choice for an Apartheid State, the de-facto present solution. What will be gained worst comes to worst is that the blinders will be taken off, and Bibi will be deprived of his greatest strategic asset, the power to equivocate. Then the world will likewise be brought to its logical choice, sanctions.

Levy is absolutely correct. Do we want a Jewish Israel, or a state with a majority of non-Jews? As for the security issue--pull out the settlers, leave the IDF in place as necessary to assure security.

Only a twisted lpberal mind of mr Levy talks of occupation as a dirty word.Sure the pioneers have built on new areas in Israel They occupy the land of our forefarthers.Why has nr Levy decided that the ground in Israel belongs to anybody but the jewish nation??He is definitely BLIND,UNEDUCATED,FOOLISH AND COMPLETELY MIXED UP.

Have a referendum in the Arab states at the same time as in Israel in which it states do Arabs want a full comprehensive peace with a Jewish Israeli state or not. That might be an idea, to blame the occupation for the hatred towards Israel and the Jews is too simplistic Gideon. I think you underestimate the complexity of the conflict and the intelligence of your own people.

voted for occupation of the Palestinians. I think that the security issue for Israel was the main reason why Israelis voted to the Likud and right winged parties. Also, of those Israelis, they do not perceive that settling the West Bank entails occupation or that it's illegal. But according to international laws, it is illegal to settle the West Bank and we're living under international laws. To them it's Biblical Israel and they have a right to settle. Better than a referendum is a negotiation to withdraw the conquered territory and retain some large bloc settlements. Enough stalling already.

upon where the border is understood to be because no such border has ever been established. The Green Line was a temporary armistice line which only lasted for 18 years during the Jordanian occupation of the West Bank. So, before you get to the referendum-ratification stage, you will need to get the proposed border nailed down first via bilateral agreement through negotiations before it can be presented to the Israelis and the Palestinians separately for approval by popular referendums. If either side rejects the proposed border, then it's back to the drawing board and further negotiations until another proposal is arrived at and we get to start the process all over again. It might be wiser to have the proposed border ratified by a two-thirds vote in the Knesset and in the Palestinian Parliament if the latter can ever form a quorum again instead of by popular referendum.

The Israeli system of government certainly allows enough change to keep tabs on what the population prefers. By comparison, the governments of surrounding countries are a sad story indeed. California is famous for referendums. They are wildly popular at the time, but regretted in a few years. Popular rule is too sensitive to the wording of the question, the facts given, and the mood of the moment. It would be like deciding what to do by keeping tabs on Haaretz talkback. Eliminate ten of the most virulent and prolific posters, and not only have you eliminated 95% of the posts, but you would find a decided shift to the right.

If this referendum idea gets too inclusive, it will lose meaning and lose period. If it is confined to the issue of stopping the drunk settlers, it will win overwhelmingly.

dwl: "Yo, Gideon: There was an election! (it was in all the papers)" And Levy makes the valid point that NOT ONE JEWISH POLITICIAN stood for office in that election on a platform of "Occupation: is it a good thing or a bad thing?" It was The Issue That Dare Not Whisper Its Name. Levy is correct that left to their own devices Israeli politicians will continue to dodge that issue, and the Israeli public will continue to go along with that play-acting.

Don't open any(more) pandora's boxes! Go to bed, Gideon...

Between US and Iran. By picking a fight with Obama, Settlers are simply cutting themselves off the loop.

The Pals need to have a referendum to see if their answers to Israel's offer of withdrawel in exchange for Peace, recognition and negotiation, have changed. If the Pals continue to want to kill Israelies and wipe out the state, well that might affect the average Israelies vote in the referendum.

lots of good questions, but a few of the multiple choice answers were left out: "all of the above", "none of the above", "other" ,"all at the same time".. the truth is the referendum that dare not speak it's name won't happen because the whole country is politically schizophrenic, and the doctors, that is, the political leadership are in cahoots. Israelis want security, land, peace, power, and everything, only the consequence of land annexation is ultimately none of the above. it is not by accident that it was Begin and Sharon that gave back land for peace. Bibi didn't do his homework or learn that lesson. so, what you don't learn you are compelled to repeat.

It doesn't matter what people want - because lobbies are too powerful. Who in Israel can fight settlers or Haredim?

Mr. Levy's heart is in the right place, and there is nothing wrong with his mind.But judging from most of the above comments, perhaps it would be advisable to think again about a referendum. The Israeli center-left is at the moment is total disarray. The right-wing is flush with funds from right-wing true believers. The present government, with a serious advantage in access to the media and other means of propaganda,can be counted on only to inflame the fears of the (reasonable?) paranoia of the silent majority. IMHO the possibility that the referendum would fail to accomplish what Mr. Levy wishes is too great. There is more hope in letting the government shoot itself in the leg before a referendum is considered. Mr. Natenyahu is so accomplished a marksman, that were he a millipede he wouldn't have a leg left to stand on; the probability that the separate elements of the government will stab each other in the back is high. Let us wait a bit.

This is not an endorsement of Mr. Levy's column. For me, the basic question for a referendum would be this: Will there be an Eretz Israel or not? In my opinion, that question has not yet been definitively answered by the Israeli people, and until it is, they will find it difficult if not impossible to unite in a common purpose and strategy--thus leaving the nation more vulnerable to both internal and external pressures. (Ergo, it's time to either fish or cut bait.)

If Bibi even proposes the idea of a referendum on so called occupation his government would fall tomorrow & no referendum bill. Will this referendum only be about building new settlements? Will new settlements include E Jerusalem & the Golan? Will it involve removing settlements & if so which ones all or just a few ? Will it be about pulling out of Judea & Samaria civilian & soldier alike? What happens if this referendum is held & the left loose? Doesn't that kill any peace process because in a referendum Israelis have said they don't want to leave the territories. How can a government then go and make offers to the palestinians when the public have just said in a democratic referendum we don't want to go anywhere. What about the palestinians ending the so called occupation is only like buying ingridiants not making the cake we need room to negotiate if we want anything in return. To negotiate we need something to offer or deny THIS ARTICLE OVER SIMPLIFIES THINGS & COULDNT WORK

It would be a fantastic thing to have a referendum and get a true gauge on what the general public believe there are a few problems however. Unlike Australia, Ireland and Switzerland which follow a bi-partisan approach with the implementation of a Preferential System with proportional represenntation. the Israeli landscape adds to it the Secular Religious divide as well as the divide between the left to the right. This makes the biggest problem in the case of a referendum as the wording and writing of the actual question is ultimately an act of Parliament and therefore will need to be agreed upon by the Knesset. Add to it the politically apathetic public in Israel add to it the lack of compulsory voting which promotes this apathy and you are looking at a situation that is defeated before it begins. In a perfect world sure thing that would be a great way to let the Knesset know what a true majority of people think but with political slantings of the question it just isn't possibl

I have not missed a single article written by this man! Thank you Mr. Levy for speaking the truth.

And, mr Levy, after a referendum on the so called occupation, in which theIsraeli's will vote to stay in Judea and Sumeria and keep all of Jerusalem, will you accept the will of the people, or carry on your destructive crusade?

I am a big fan of Gideon Levy but I disagree with him here. The occupation is illegal and must be terminated immediately, regardless of what the Israeli public wants. Why offer it the opportunity for some trapping of legitimacy?

This is astoundingly naive article. Levy writes in a vacuum as if the choices are to israel alone. He makes no mention of the enemies. Every time Israel has left they have a worse situation on their doorstep. It is not only whether Israelis want to occupy but that the arabs have always opted for war and violence. They have been made reasonable offers time an time again. If people want you dead your choice is to kill them first or keep them in jail.

I see levy is bored-again.

Ah-the prophetic voice from Tel Aviv, the Jeremiah conscience of the Israeli and Jewish people: Gideon, that firebrand of the left!! But Gideon, which occupation? If we go according to hamas and Obama's recent Green Czar and with Obama's spiritual advisor, the Right Rev. Wright, all of Israel is occupied land. So what do you think oh wizard of the East-do we try and see if Uganda is still available? Or perhaps some remote Pacific Island? How about it, Gideon, you rogue you, clue us in-we await with bated breath!

What an excellent idea and how timely. After the recent debacle over the Bibi visit to Russia, now is the time to introduce a little clarity and honesty. Ever since the Oslo Accords, Israel has talked of peace while building up the settlements, a clear contrdiction. The settlements cost a great deal of money and could not survive without the co-operation of the Israeli state, for example in the provision of utilities. If is time for Israeli's to decide the future of the settlements and a referendum is a good way to do this.

And so far it is clear that what the Arabs still want is to destroy Israel. When that changes everything will.

Did you miss iT or are you just surprised that so may people can be so stupid -- certainly not as smart as you.

OCCUPATION...PLAYING with HAMAS and HIZBULLAH.. TEASING IRAN...and more All the above are the LIFE lines for any Israeli government that is in POWER..... If all the above CREATED distractions, kind of DISAPPEAR, Peace may have a chance...BUT then.. what if that happens..The Israelis will start with each other and Israel will Self DESTRUCT... So...Keep all these NON-PEACE WAR MONGERING activities alive and well..They are what keeps Israel going and keeps it intact.... SO WE WILL NEVER HAVE PEACE....ARMAGEDDON will come before we get peace....

There was an election this year Mr. Levy. Those for continuing occupation until all Arabs are pushed out of Judea and Samaria won. The head of the 'liberal' Labor Party is Defense Minister of a government which made continuing the Occupation until Judea and Smaria are fully settled the cornerstone of the dominant parties campaigns. Israel's conservatives have a goal, and it's latte sipping liberals have no stomach for opposing them or their goal. No need for a 'referendum' Gideon Levy, Israel had one and your side was decimated at the polls.