They broke the public's heart

write an article like this in Canada and off you go to jail.Fat chance it will ever get printed-I mean truth. Russia still has laws protecting jews from smears and bad talk.Guess what? the law is tough-jail time,even if you look at a jew the wrong way.BUT! the law is not inforced anymore-since the Jews have been kicked out.Sharon are you listening--tell America-nuke them bastards.

Gideon Levy correctly points out the complicity of media in the whitewash of Israeli atrocities. If the IDF's actions ever were put on full display, their support would diminish both in Israel and around the world. Israel continues to use its vicious state machinery to crush the Palestinians, and it can do so only because of the political and monetary support from the USA. I propose cutting the US aid to Israel and let it stand on its own. If Israel wants to pursue the apartheid like policies against Palestenians, let them do it on their shekel. I am tired of my tax $s going to support thugs and war criminals like Sharon.

Didn't the jews originate in Egypt? That's what it says in the Bible anyway. I believe they colonised Israel at a later date and warred with the philistines (who lived there before them) while doing so :). Not a hundred percent sure on the last bit, I haven't read the Bible in a while. Just pointing out that, claiming land as yours on the basis of myth is a bit silly. Cheers, Mark.

Indeed Paul, When people are threatened, subjugated, oppressed, enslaved or occupied they often take 'steps'. Unfortunately, these steps are often violent, it is a flaw in human nature. When internationally recognised states commit atrocities, it is often called 'unfortunate', and the death of innocents is 'collateral damage'. When non-state actors commit atrocites it is usually called terrorism, 'evil' etc, which it is. I abhor violence of all forms, state and non-state. Do you?

I can well appreciate the humility and courage it takes to write as you do. Unfortunately, peoples from all sides don't see the human society you elude to as the only one that will bring everlasting peace. I work with Jews, Christians and Muslims, as well as Humanist (gods in their own eyes) posing as one of the above. The three religions that recognize the existence of the Creator, recognize His laws as binding on all, individually and collectively. Humanist, on the other hand, see their own will and appetite as definitive of right and wrong. They call themselves by what ever name will help them achieve their agenda. Government, in a word, it is force. Force for right or wrong. As people establish governments, such as the one America and Israel now have, one that caters to their lust, conditions are nothing more than an extention of their lust and its inevitable consequences. Can a society be established, such as the one the Founders of America gave the people and they threw away again? Not likely. Regardless, it is people with the courage and compassion you demonstrate that stand the tallest amongst us. It isn't only about Jews and Palestinians. It's about people the world over and the nation that professes "One nation under God" is not only not the exception, but the chief proponent of Humanism with all its diabolical characteristics. Your writings give cause to respecting the real Jews who are unfortunately ranked with the humanist posing as Jews, as Muslims are ranked with the bin-Ladens of this world. With deep appreciation and respect, Wildey moore

So exactly who ARE the self haters here? The right wing claim that if we speak out against their corruption and injustices, we must hate ourselves. Does that mean that 75% of the community hate themselves? At any rate, we are not commanded to love ourselves above all but to love G-d above all and obey him. 80% of the religious right-wing are crooks, thieves and outright charlatans who would as soon treat secular, moderate Israeli's the way they do the Palestianians or any non-Jew.

Gideon Levy's article should be read by every student in Israel and the Arab world. As long as people hold on to their chauvanist views of themselves and the other, the region is doomed to continued warfare. Peace can come when both sides treat each other as equal - where humans have more stake than the supposed wishes of the G^Ds.

The only thing admirable about the settlers is there ability to turn barren land into gardens. Too bad they have to be profiteers of the occupation to accomplish that. Too bad they think their cheap living on the wrong side of the green line justifies murder of Palestinian children, generation after generation. Too bad most of them seem to really believe that non-Jews are a lower life-form. Want the settlers to be shown honor? Not until they return to Israel.

The problem with Gideon Levy's article is one of utter disdain and a bit of jealousness for the settlers. In a way he seems to like that they are struggling for their survival so that he doesn't have to see their productivity which represents some of the best segments of Israel's population. Gideon Levy should show honor to the settlers who have always represented peaceful love of the land instead of finding ways to dislike them.

Not to mention the ridiculous spectacle of Israeli soldiers and police practically rolling around in the dirt, trading blows with these idiot settlers. When is the government going to break out the tear gas, batons, and rubber bullets? I guess that's reserved solely for Paelstinians...

Alot of people on this website write about the "Palestinians". But in fact these are a false nonsense people who never existed. The Arabs never made

IZAK, I SECOND YOUR MOTION

Former leftists I think should speak out more because "we" have an important message: the current version of the left is the result of decay that is based more on psychology than economics or even sentiment. As the economic underpinnings of the "Left" have collapesd, and as the ideology has become outdated and left in slogans, what remains is malice, hatred and viciousness cloaked in moral superiority. Gideon Levy is a prime example (though I feel I should add that this is the sanest article of his that I have read.) Haaretz is locked out of time, locked in with the inmates. Those of us who have left the asylum can either just shake our heads at how we ever stayed so long, or offer a perspective that can help others evaluate what is going on in the partisan versions of what is happening today. That is, writers like Gideon Levy, and tey can be called right or left, definitely are not talking about facts, or about what is happening. They are talking only about themselves.

you wouldnt know truth if it came by in a cadillac

all of those people who applaud disengagement should be aware they might be getting themselves into a huge trap. no water no electricity and carpet bombing!

Suddenly, Ariel Sharon is your big hero! You've all suddenly forgotten and forgiven Sabra and Shatilla!!! How interesting!!! YOU'RE ALL HYPOCRITES!!!!

IMO,I just want to re-iterate that Israel reserves the right Road Map or No Road Map to go back in to Gaza if there is any rockets etc. That without discussing ALL issues relating to security and giving up land there are too many problems with missunderstanding.So I feel it should be 'we will give up this....and we need this from you....and accountability all the way through. That Hamas should keep their weapons and should be invited into the political process. The weapons mean nothing,either they will fire or they wont.If they fire,all bets are off if they dont,next stage. That we need mega money from the Saudis and other oil rich countries along with American help and European to help the Palestinians help themselves.No handouts but help in development of their society. And a big push in helping the children. But the Palestinians should know being disrespectful of the first step,Gaza,will give them nothing back. This is not a victory for the Palestinians.This is the beginning of healing after many years of pain for both societies.

ROP:Ronnie, in numerous posts in response to several recent pieces, you hail the evacuation (as I do) and tell the Pals that the ball will now be in their court to reciprocate. So, what I want to know is how your stripes will change if they don`t? Will we see the metamorphosis of our lovable leftist into someone less deluded or will we find more fault in the House of Israel? After all, even your Pal Khalid is not promising a Ros-Garten after the Gaza pull-out, just more of the same until after last piece of captured land is given back. ROP,I say if the Palestinians do not respect this unilateral gift and the fact that Israel is basically giving Gaza to the Palestinians with little guarantee and they start firing,then there is no doubt that Sharon will go back in,road map or no road map.This I absolutely agree with. I also think that along with Gaza,ALL Palestinian issues should be discussed with the idea that if this happens then that will happen,then nobody has illusions and nobody is missunderstood.This is including East Jerusalem (of course with an International force protecting the right of all worshippers to pray wherever they choose.The problem with this is because of domestic politiking they wont say that.But with accountability set out ahead the issue of security should be met even though the absolutist extremists all lose.

Finallly someone tells is like it really is. Some of us haven't been hoodwinked but many bought into this fraud. Now someone is admitting the truth many could see with their own eyes. How we can see on the news the terrorism against the Palestinians and then be asked to buy into the settlers' dramatics is going too far. The settlers have smeared and besmirched the Israelis forever.

Some of us love Israel. We believe in the Jewish state, believe in the whole enterprise of the ingathering of the Jewish people. Some of us believe that Israel while falling short of its own ideal goals is nonetheless one of the most basically decent societies in the world, especially considering the threats it faces from the Jihad societies which surround it. But many people hate Israel, among them a good share of those who write on this page. In fact one element of the whole Middle Eastern ambience is this violence in word and deed, this hate and more hate which comes in part of envy and in part of frustration .And which in the end is self- defeating and self- destructive.

An illuminating quote from Robert Pelletreau, long time US ambassodor/advisor on the middle east: " The Israelis, he says, "don't realize that they have won, that Israeli society has successfully established a state here, a vibrant society, a mosaic society that has come together, that is part of this region and part of the world, that's not going to be overturned easily. And most of the Arab world, virtually all, is willing to live with an Israel that is willing to live with them." " Israel is a nation in denial. They are simply put, addicted to conflict. This conflict helps absolve them of a drop of guilt for their ongoing theft of land and colonization of Palestine. All friends of justice and peace must continue our fruitful efforts to isolate Israel politically and economically UNTIL the time comes that peace loving Israelis take back thier country and begin dismantling the nasty occupation. Trust me people, I have Israel's best interests at heart.

I think it is so nice that Dutch and Bojangles are trying so hard to keep the League of Anti-Semite Nationals going strong. Touching, really. At least with Khalid we get to hear a Palestinian with a brain, as opposed to merely the insance, but you guys are really the cat's meow, so please keep the buddy network intact.

We real israeliens work hard, pay lot of taxes. Not able to finish the month. Now i know were our money did go: you villas on the beach with pools. You say you are zionists but you only want to live in israel when we pay you lot of compensation as if we dit not pay you al these years... For what? How many of our jewish and arab soldiers died for you villas? How many palastinians we had to kill for you? You dont care/ You steal the bread from the mouth of our children. And if you steal without shame the bread from the mouth of our children', what did you steal al these years from the palastinians.. Shame on us that only now we wake up and see the real you..(sorry palastinians) If you don't want to live with us, like us (working hard and pay lot of taxes, living in broken appartments) So don't live with us, but leave our palastinian neigbours alone! Go live in USA or where ever. And no, you are not zionist. I am zionist. I live in israel and care and love it. You say you are relegious.. I see how you treat your neigbours. You call me Hiloni, but i care about my neigbours like the Halaha demand from us. Please leave us

Hey Khalid, if you can pick out one sentence in my post (147) where I said Palestinians can't use violence, I will personally come over there and join Tanzim. If anything, the point of my post was that Israel made non-violence a non-option. 'If you don`t like this, this is your problem...' Please. Read what I said, not what I didn't say.

dutchie. Every post quotes: George Washington, Gandhi, Abe (Jewish you know) Lincoln. Have you ever had an "original thought" in your life? Or for that matter, Have you ever had a thought in your life?????

Ronnie, in numerous posts in response to several recent pieces, you hail the evacuation (as I do) and tell the Pals that the ball will now be in their court to reciprocate. So, what I want to know is how your stripes will change if they don't? Will we see the metamorphosis of our lovable leftist into someone less deluded or will we find more fault in the House of Israel? After all, even your Pal Khalid is not promising a Ros-Garten after the Gaza pull-out, just more of the same until after last piece of captured land is given back.

it was all before your time franzen that doesnt stop you writing nonsense after nonsense ! nor does it excuse a swedish anti jew the 1922 mandate was before your time but it still is extant and jews occupy only 5% of the jewish homeland

tell us all how many times you have seen jerusalem or gaza or the west bank? tell us how many times you have seen illegal workers arrested? tell us all what you have seen you have seen nothing and it shows bm

Gideon - enough already. You are giving me a migraine with the rubbish you write. Miriam Davidowitz

Thank you " what's your name ", for asserting my longtime established belief, that your hatred and insult of Palestinians, which caused all their missery, has always been the main and sole reason behind their fighting back, and it was NEVER their Terrorist nature, which you and your likes, always wept at and claimed falsefully, and cynically

congratulating any of your fans will not save a single palestinian franzi asking his same questions will not save a single palestinian none of you - have ever realised that israel is never going to give up jerusalem or take back the refugees or remove from the w/b it is only your sublime ignorance which keeps you going - if you knew israelis you would know the truth the people you are agreeing with - have no part to play here in isreal - you included not one of you can tell israel what to do and whilst you cannot yet see it the forum is merely dividing between the jews and the non jews and for the better part the jews (who will have a say) are telling you clearly that you have no part in this conflict you talk of we - but this is only you - a man with no vote and no say enjoy your team - i can tell you with absolute certainty that you will achieve nothing your mate franzi is a disgrace to the pals cause - go see his forum you waste only your time and you will not save a single palestinian i pity you bm

Once again, Mr. Levy gets it right on. Good writing.

""Anytime a rightous arab speaks up for Israel, these people try to deny him his right to free speech !"" Right On! And those of us whom the Crow crowd tries to silence because we agree to disagree are going to be more VOCAL! arab world are less fortunate. Freedom of speech, slightest dissent, sends them to jail without trial. Freedom of speech doesnt exist in the arab world therefore those who are under that restrictive cloud feel free to come and invade a Israeli far left radical newspaper that no one bothers to read in Israel but here anonymous, unseen, can spill their Corw's gaga We do not have to respond to the Crows they can gaga in their own language and unto themselves as I refuse to enter into any dialogue as long as they were the Crow's image

I wait for Gideon Levy's article every week in Haaretz because he is truly a Moral Giant. Unlike many intellectuals ,here is somone who is not afraid to "speak truth to power".Here is someone who is not intimidated by this well organized hate e-mail.He gives hope to those Palestinians who suffer from the Israeli oppression and occupation.

How many acts of Palestinian cruelty and brutality has Gideon Levi reported on in the past ten years? There have been thousands, and each day there are tens of violent incidents initiated by the Palestinians. Levi has reported Zero. And is therefore Zero as a reporter."" Gideon Levy a reporter? Maybe only job he will ever hold is at Haaretz. or, with Al Jazeera if he is "sweet" to khalid he might help him find a parnasa there. since levy did such good deeds by the Palestinian terrorists and never say an unkind word about them,, I really propose he gets a job with that paper and moves out of Israel.Gideon Levy, a Haaretz columnist who wants to see Israel dismantled and replaced by a Third World Palestinian bi-national state (the Rwanda Solution), insists Levy writes a Haaretz column in which each week he bemoans some troubled Palestinian family's plight, such as that of a father blowing his arm off while preparing an explosives belt, yet has never quite found the time to devote any space to the families of any of those 1,300 Oslo-murdered Israelis. Other Lefties then chimed in with sentiments similar to Levy's, insisting that Israelis other than themselves should repent for their horrid, evil, oppressive, racist nature as their response to terror. Gideon Levy sold his soul to the mujahedeen long time ago and therefore deserves a place in PA authority and another one Amira hass can join him in the throw

I read with considerable interest your observations about Leon Rosgarten of London, U.K. You may find of interest my reply (Post No. 76) to a gentleman from Australia, with reference to a leading Jewish communist in Cuba during the time of Fidel Castro's revolution. Of his generation, Leon is not alone in advocating socialism. The good news is that the younger generation are not following the marxist-leninist beliefs of their parents and grand parents. My sincere hope is that marxism-leninism will die when Leon's generation is no longer alive.

"I live in a very unconsciously cosmopolitan city" Actually, according to the 2005 Almanac of American cities, Houston is not considered unconscious. I think your referring to Buffalo, but that would only be during the 20th century. PS. (if your nitpicking was in reponse to others, I stand corrected)

Django-- There was never a truer sentiment uttered on these page: "Yet rather than showing gratitude for being allowed to establish a homeland (not a state) on land already owned and occupied by Palestinians, Israel immediately waged a campaign to steal all of the land deeded for a Palestinian State." Who could have expressed this vicious intent than the first Israeli leader Ben Gurion when he received the UN partition in 1947: "We take now what the UN gives us, later we take the rest." This vicious aggression was endorsed by all Israeli leaders--good and bad alike. I am not sure if most Israeli people knew what was going on as their government used all kind of laws (English, Jordan, Israeli and the UN) to justify their actions. So my feeling is most people thought it was all very legal -- just like many still do today. But you are right to say their leaders are guilty on all three accounts--according to Buddha saying: "... there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed." Israel is guilty of all three. Still, I remain at heart an Abraham Lincoln ready to forgive and to press on with healing the wounds as Lincoln said in 1865 following the civil war--I think this maybe the only decent way to go: "With malice towards none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation's wounds; to care for him who shall borne the battle; and for his widow and his orphan ... to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves, and with all nations." Abraham Lincoln's Second Inaugural Address, March 4 Th., 1865. Dutch

Dutch: You say that I "... have exaggerated the facts `to criticize and isolate' Leon Rosgarten". Well, I have not exagerated a bit. Leon has said what Johannes and I claim he said. Johannes has provided a link and whatever we all write here can be found on archives of this forum. You seem not to be mature enough to understand this is not an issue of liking or disliking you, or letting live or not, nor it is an issue of advocation censorship to Leon. I am not doing this: I uphold his right to post and promote his opinions, to which, of course I have the right to criticize. The big issue here is the UNIVESAL CHARACTER OF THE BASIC PRINCIPLES OF ETHICS AND MORALITY. If you believe we should criticize posters who trivialize Palestinian collective suffering under the occupation (as some sort of antisemitic propaganda), or write posts which advocate inhuman policies (population expulsions or deportations), or asert that some genetic or biblical mumbo-jumbo denies for them a valid claim for the land, we should also criticize and take issue with someone, like Leon, who expresses these opinions (almost as a mirror image) vis a vis the Jews. If you choose to ignore the universality of these principles, you loose the moral credibility to critize settlers. Yes, I live and let live and I understand we can all make mistakes and misjudge fellow humans. So, I have no grudge towards you and sincerely hope you understand why I am criticizing your attitude.

Dear Kay: You say that: "maybe he [Leon R] just said that the Holocaust is misused". Sorry Kay, he had the possibility to write that, but he didn't. He wrote exactly what Johannes reported (and gave a link to). He can clarify or explain, but so far he hasn't and I suspect he won't or will just deny it (against proof) or make accusations. People should be made responsible of what they declare. Almost all my partents' extended family that didn't migrate from Lithuania and Ukraine were murdered in WWII. If someone claims this genocide has been "blown up", as part of some "zionist propaganda" plot, I have the right to demand full clarification. This is a matter of principles, it's not because it was the holocaust or the victims were Jews. How can somebody criticize the settler's and their cheer leaders opinions if he/she glosses over holocaust trivializing opinions like those found in Leon's posts?

Just open up you guys. It's getting poisonous in here, and the RememberBlabla poster should grin with great satisfaction..

The existence of every Jew who lives where Palestinians used to live until they were driven from their homes is dependent upon "Arab" displacement. Yet rather than showing gratitude for being allowed to establish a homeland (not a state) on land already owned and occupied by Palestinians, Israel immediately waged a campaign to steal all of the land deeded for a Palestinian state. According to Buddha: "... there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed." Israel is guilty of all three.

Roberto-- I think you have exaggerated the facts "to criticize and isolate" Leon Rosgarten and I see that as being very fair and I will not support your efforts--not at all. I don't mind what you think of me either. On this web page---you can take what opinions you wish or you can discard what opinions you wish. I appreciate what both men have to say and I will continue to look for their commentaries. So please count me out --I am going to Live and Let Live. Dutch

Maybe he didn`t write that the Holocaust is a Zionist propaganda-then nobody really believes THAT. My mother was a little child then and I have been often told stories and stories .... . I can`t remeber this post, but maybe he just said that the Holocaust is misused. I am too tired to explain, but maybe another one does for me or I do another time.

What Mr Levy does not realise is that he himself is a settler. He lives in places like ramat aviv whose existence is dependent upon Arab displacement. Nu, maybe he should be given deluxe transfer back to Poland.

Thanks Roberto. I had missed those posts, and just followed Franzen's link to one of them.

"dont you like the other readers to know sweden mad eblood money from ww2" - paul harris Sweden had the Germans on two sides of them, and found it far easier to sell than be invaded. You wouldn't want to discuss the Swedish sales to England during WW II, or the tight cooperation with English intelligence would you?

"I think it is the US army that`s on the march in the Middle East " - Dutch it was on the march several years ago, but the Rumsfield Plan and the Wolfowitz schedule to have our Army out of Iraq in time for an invasion of Iran the following fall has become somewhat disarrayed. Now the US Army is not marching, it is merely pumping it's legs up and down in the quagmire.

A new Angle to the joint struggle against the fence. http://israel.indymedia.org/newswire/display/3410/index.php

Dear Shalom freedman-- Those of us who have read Levy's work for years realize what you are trying to do is make a mountain out of a mole hill. Aren't you the same Mr. Freedman who said the Palestinians were not as badly off as they say they are -when I showed you data that from the UN; the World Bank and Johns Hopkins that stated otherwise? Aren't you the same Mr. Freedman who called the settlers "pioneers" when in fact many are anything but? So like my learned friend Ibrahim said, "give me a break". Yes, indeed you maybe very right there has been incidents of Palestinian violence but in comparison to the Israeli army's violence that is like comparing rock throwers to F-16; or Apache helicopters or drones. There's no comparison--the stone age verses 21st war machines. Besides, with the vital statistics show a 4 :1 ratio in the number of Palestinians deaths to Israeli deaths--how can you talk about Palestinian violence in light of this information? Also, the Israeli army have injured over 50,000 Palestinians with their reckless and illegal use of the open fire regulations in the "protected" territoritories. Some 10,000 of these unfortunate victims are children. Some 4,000 of these children have crippling physical injuries, the others have injuries that cannot be patched up from the emotional trauma of a belligerent occupation. So please Mr. Freedom don't ask me to consider Palestinian violence in light of all the brutal violence the Israeli Army has inflicted upon the Palestinian people due to the presence of the often radical settlers. Dutch

"u r scum" - rafi May I add this to my compilation "Internet Wit and Wisdom"?

"its like the silence over the death of 900,000 german civillians in ww2," - paul harris I have no problem with the fact that after Germany started World War II, and invaded many nations, that Germans were killed in the fray. The people of Deir Yassin were deemed harmless by the Haganah, and targeted by the Irgun because they were assumed to be an easy target to make an example of. The people of Deir Yassin were victims of an act of terrorism, the Germans were victims of their own perfidy.

"its no problem a bit of corruption . italy has managed for many years !" - paul harris I understand Paul. You are a conservative, and conservatives love corruption.

Do people on this site have difficulty doing sums? Israel 78% of Palestinian mandate after detachment of Transjordan - 77% of original. This makes .22*.78*100 = 17.16%, not 5%. Maybe some other, slightly more relevent arithmetic - 300,000 settlers out of 7 million Israelis living amongst 3.5 million Palestinians. Or maybe this, nearly 100 billion dollars spent on infrastructure in the territories.

'no expansion of settlements is a pre-requisite for peace" settlememts must be expanded -double time- and new ones created !! incitement of terror dismantle of militias are the pre-requisites for peace !! About Condo Rice....its called lip service....kinda like what your leader Abbas does all the time....like...disarm militants No one in their right mind would expect Israel to stop expansion of settlements withought the palestinians doing anything (except for a few posts in here)

HA'ARETZ: PLEASE PRINT THIS POST, IT IS AN IMPORTANT CLARIFICATION, NOT A PERSONAL ATTACK. Dutch & Bainem. Johannes is not a man to engage in personal attacks, even if he is often personally attacked by some of the forum's rightists with nasty vitriol. In the case of Leon, Johannes is right. Leon has written some very disturbing phrases like advocating mass deportation of Jews after the "victory" over zionism: "Those of Eastern European origin may be allowed to settle in Birobidzan, on condition of strictly enforced rules to make sure that they do not infringe on the interests of the local population. This is the most humane and generous solution to the problem, proposed over 50 years ago by the Soviet Union." [june 30] "Those Zionists who are in fact traitors of Arab and Muslim countries, should be repatriated to their countries of origin." [june 30] He has also declared (a few days ago) exactly what Franzes reports he did, namely: "the holocaust is a zionist propaganda ploy blown out of all proportion". He has written that Palestine should be "cleansed" of Jews (yes, he did use this phrase), since "genetic analyisis" shows that Ashkenazi Jews are not semite, while Jews originating from Islamic countries are traitors to these countries (hence, his "deportation" suggestions). All these quotes are so lunatic, so crackpot, that no serious critic of Israel (antizionist or not) would espouse them. Dutch: you have failed to read Leon's posts and your praising of him is very disturbing. Honestly, if you do not provide a clarification for this, I will not take you seriously. If we criticize rightists or settlers and their apologists for espousing inhuman attitudes, policies and actions against the Palestinian population, we must also criticize and isolate those who, under an "antizionist" or "progressive" side, espouse the same policies against the Jewish population. This is a question of principles. No "ifs" and "buts" please: BE HONEST WITH YOURSELVES.

..especially, when their record is stained with blood!

Indeed, if you don`t feel secure enough to reveal your real identity when talking publicly, you have no moral credentials to criticize a man who is known all over the world for his honesty, rectitude and credibility. Fareed...your Gush Emunim ideology is a cancer upon Israel, Judaism and the Jewish people. This is why you feel too ashamed to write under your real name.""" I truely understand khalid where youre coming from. it is very 'acceptable' when a poster either agrees with you and those who don't are suspect. so, you assume already that I am fareed zakaria a christian zionist?!??? ROFL you have to label folks for their beliefs or respond to the topic of the day? I did. and sorry to disappoint you I am not Mr Zacharia who writes in Newsweek. (gee I wish I was) anyone who doesnt agree to your rigid hostile backward point of view must be discounted and stomped at by the other crows who sit here and wait for you to crack the walnut and share with them the titbits of hatred. I live in Israel work and support my family what do you do all day but baby sit haaretz talkback? Iwish I had your time.. last but not least you have mentioned several re genocide of the arab palestinians please provide the link where you say Palestinians to the ovens get the link or you are just as a liar as I think you are

They post daily on the Zionist channel.

Thanks for writing this, Gideon. It's about time someone spoke out!

dont waste your time about walid. Although he is a great man, Khalid, safadina and others would like you to believe he is an iraqi jew. Anytime a rightous arab speaks up for Israel, these people try to deny him his right to free speech ! heres another one for you: arabsforisrael.com

-"Unauthorized statements have been made to the effect that the purpose in view is to create a wholly Jewish Palestine. Phrases have been used such as that Palestine is to become "as Jewish as England is English." HMG regard any such expectation as impracticable and have no such aim in view. Nor have they at any time contemplated, as appears to be feared by the Arab Delegation, the disappearance or the subordination of the Arabic population, language or culture in Palestine. They would draw attention to the fact that the terms of the Declaration referred to do not contemplate that Palestine as a whole should be converted into a Jewish National Home, but that such a Home should be founded in Palestine" http://www.wzo.org.il/home/politic/white.htm Ps. I have no idea how much iron ore Sweden sold to Nazi Germany, but it was before my time and I do not support it.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/objects/pages/ResponseDetails.jhtml?resNo=144046&itemno=594585&cont=2

Justice, Justice thou shalt pursue. Thou shalt not kill Plow your sword into plowshores mighty are those who turn their ennemies to friends Rabbis for Human Rights: www.rhr.israel.net/profile/index.shtml well, all humans have the potential to be monsters!Sad, but true. The difference is that there are people who see this and fight this and others don`t. One step forward would be when different people would see this, and not just think they would be always right and perfect! www.allforpeace.com

dont you like the other readers to know sweden mad eblood money from ww2

dajango you know and i know you are an idiot but dont tell all the other readers as a figure jews represent just0.001%of this world write on you front door

Amazing - what some people are willing to say. Who is fareed representing? sounds like the cozaks of old - just before and after they launch their pogroms on the jews. It is incomprehensible how such people can even find a forum to express their evil thoughts - no doubt reflected in their deeds. And Amira hass to many of us is one of the true heoroes Israel has produced in the past 30 years. Her fight for the oppressed and occupied, living among them and seeing first hand what the israelis have done - the terror inflicted on them, the theft of land, the senseless persecution. Must have been hard. I reckon that a day will come and Amira will be remembered as one of the true tzadikim - the one who helps redeem the darkness that invaded so many in the jewish - and israeli community. fareed has no right to even mention her name - for he is one of the executioners of the jewish spirit and the israeli enterprise.

Everybody knows the best Pizza places but the flyers attract a small portion of people who dont know. So for the Dont Knows we have these silly people putting out this stuff.Its like a recording.

I am as surprised as you are about the negative emails between Johannes and Leon. As an admirer of both I don't understand how there can be any conflict. Personally I have always believed Leon was a Jew against the occupation. Obviously Johannes, with whom I have also agreed on every issue, feels differently. To me it is a great shame.

Why would anybody who has respect to himself and his name call him/herself 9/11 or Sabra and Shatela or any of these stupid names. This is suppose to be a forum and not aother propoganda machine to play on people's emotions. we have anough of those machines.

Leon-- Is there any chance you would answer Johanes's challenge (post # 159) . I certainly don't want you to upset you again, so you shouldn't feel pressured by my request. Perhaps more to just clear the air and press forward. I am still going to appreciate what you both have to say and keep looking for your commentaries. You are both very wise men and know you are dealing with people who have overcome some of the biggest propaganda machines going and we are still here fighting it on the ground and are always on the look out for how it is being twisted and woven. For example, I don't believe freedom is on the march in the Middle East like Bush and Blair would like us to think? Indeed, I think it is the US army that's on the march in the Middle East and tyranny. One only has to look at the ledge sheet and the US military budget alone to figure this out. And then look at the manipulation and intimidation that is taking place. Luckily, many wonderful writers and thinkers validate this too. But the bottom line is speaks for itself--democracy must be home grown otherwise it's a sham. So I feel our common humanity and collective wisdom as a people will always lead the way as it done throughout history as Gandhi pointed out in so eloquently in my quote of him and as Lincoln said in 1845, " You can't fool all the people all of the time." In essence then I feel there is an inherent element about the truth that will outlive us all. Thank G-d. I am sure you both are much more aware of this phenomena than I am and I should stop talking. Many thanks as always, Dutch

I think you need to visit and listen to my Arab friend Walid........ He's opened our eyes....... Walid Shoebat's Website .....www.shoebat.com/ wake up to reality from my friend Walid he was a Palestinian terrorist .. and he has seen truth and light He could teach Haaretz and you all a lesson of facts

http://www.wzo.org.il/home/politic/white.htm

u r scum

IBRAHIM HABIBI...... you are solidly MAJNUN....... MABRUK

JEWS ONLY OCCUPY 5% Of the world you mean? Are you never satisfied?

58) May 19, 2003 - In the fifth suicide bombing in two days, a Palestinian homicide bomber blew up at the main entrance to the Shaarei Amakim mall in Afula killing three Israelis and wounding 50 - click here for more details. 57) May 18, 2003 - The scum from Hamas, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad or Arafat's Al-Aksa brigades once again murdered unarmed innocent women and children when a homicide bomber blew up on a bus in Jerusalem killing seven people and wounding 20 - click here for more details. 56) April 29, 2003 - A Muslim British citizen blows himself at "Mike's Place", a restaurant in Tel Aviv, murdering 4 Israelis and injuring 50. For more details on the attack and for information on "Mike's place", click here. 55) April 23, 2003 - To prove that Palestinians are serious about not implementing any peace agreement, a Palestinian murderer killed one and wounded nine in a homicide bombing at the entrance to the Kfar Sava train station, northeast of Tel Aviv - click here for more details. 54) March 30, 2003 - In the first suicide bombing since the start of the Iraq war, a Palestinian terrorist detonated himself outside a crowded cafe in the Mediterranean coastal city of Netanya, wounding nearly 40 people, two of them critically - click here for more details. 53) March 5, 2003 - 16 people, including many school children, were massacred by a Palestinian homicide bomber who blew himself up in a crowded bus in the northern Israeli city of Haifa - click here for more details. Abigail Litle, a 14-year-old girl, and a citizen of the United States of America, was killed in the blast - click here to read her story. 52) January 5, 2003 - 23 people were killed, and more than 80 were wounded when two Palestinian murderers from the Islamic Jihad blew themselves up. Two powerful blasts, about 2 minutes apart, ripped through a crowded neighborhood near the old Tel Aviv bus station - click here for more details. Steven Cromwell, a 43-year-old father of 2, and a citizen of Ghana, was killed in the blast - click here to read his story.

66) December 25, 2003 - A Palestinian suicide bomber, a member of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) murdered three people, including two women, when he blew himself up at a bus stop under the Geha Bridge in Tel-Aviv, Israel - click here for more details. 65) October 4, 2003 - A Palestinian female homicide bomber exploded in a Haifa restaurant killing nineteen Israelis and injuring sixty. Gideon Zilberstein, a 63-year-old accountant from Haifa, was eating lunch with his wife, his son and his daughter-in-law when the bomber attacked. "Suddenly we heard a huge boom all around us. People were dead or dying next to our table," he said - click here for more details. 64) September 9, 2003 - Two Palestinian homicide bombings, one at a crowded bus stop near Tel Aviv, the second five hours later at a popular Jerusalem nightspot killed 14 Israelis and wounded and maimed dozens. Among the victims of the bombings was the head of a Jerusalem hospital emergency room and his 20-year-old daughter who was going to get married later in the everning. - click here for more details. 63) August 19, 2003 - A mass murderer from the group "Palestinian Islamic Jihad" blew himself up onboard a bus in Jerusalem, killing 18 people and wounding scores, including over 40 children. - click here for more details. 62) August 13, 2003 - Two Palestinian homicide bombers blew themselves in the Israeli towns of Rosh Ha'ayin and Ariel, murdering two Israelis and wounding 12 in almost simultaneous attacks. - click here for more details. 61) July 8, 2003 - Mazal Afari, 65, a resident of Moshav Kfar Yavetz, east of Netanya, Israel, was killed and three of her grandchildren were lightly injured when a Palestinian suicide bomber detonated his explosives inside their home, causing it to collapse. - click here for more details. 60) June 19, 2003 - A Palestinian suicide bomber detonated a bag of explosives in a grocery store located in Moshav Sde Trumot, Israel. Avner Mordechai, 63, the owner of the store, was critically injured in the blast, and later died of his injuries. - click here for more details. 59) June 11, 2003 - Sixteen Israelis were killed and more than 100 were wounded when a fascist Palestinian homicide bomber, dressed as an ultra-Orthodox Jew, detonated his explosives belt on a bus in downtown Jerusalem. Palestinian terrorists have attempted 11 homicide bombings and murdered 23 Israelis in the last 4 days, since Palestinians "accepted" the "roadmap for peace" and the end of violence - click here for more details.

There are a few Palestinian terrorist groups including: - The Hamas ("Islamic Resistance" in Arabic) - The Islamic Jihad ("Holy war" in Arabic) - The PFLP (the "Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine"). - The Al-Aksa Martyrs brigade (part of the "Fatah", directly reports to Arafat - see the Palestine page). All of the above mass murderers wish for the destruction of Israel, and for an Islamic Palestinian state to replace it. Arafat's terrorist groups are part of the "Fatah", an umbrella group of terrorists. These Palestinians are responsible for hundreds of homicide/suicide bombings since Arafat and the Palestinian Authority decided that they'd take another shot at war and trying to destroy Israel. Below I will list in reverse chronological order, all Palestinian bombings that I could report on. I will only list bombings since October 2000, and not the thousands of other terrorist attacks executed by the above Palestinian murderers (firing into crowds, murdering children in their beds, grenade attacks, stabbings, etc...): 71) September 1, 2004 - Two Palestinian mass murdering freaks exploded almost simultaneously on two buses in central Beersheba, a city in the South of Israel, killing 16 innocent Israelis and wounding dozens. Twelve people died at the scene and four others died later while being treated, including a three-year-old child. About 100 people were wounded in the attack, including 16 children - click here for more details. 70) April 17, 2004 - A Palestinian homicide bomber from the terrorist group Hamas murdered one Israeli and wounded three when he blew himself up at the Erez industrial zone - click here for more details. 69) February 22, 2004 - A genocidal mass murderer from the Palestinian terrorist group "Hamas" (Islamic "Resistance") blows himself up in a bus in Jerusalem killing 7 innocent Israelis and injuring dozens. - click here for more details. 68) January 29, 2004 - A Palestinian mass murdering bastard murdered 10 Israelis and injured over 50 when he blew himself up inside a bus in Jerusalem, Israel's capital. - click here for more details. 67) January 15, 2004 - Two Israeli soldiers, a border policeman, and a security guard for a private manpower company, were murdered by a female Palestinian suicide bomber at the Erez crossing between Israel and the Gaza Strip. - click here for more details.

ok ibrahim , what did you do with oslo ? what did you say to barak in 2000 what have you said since 1917. ms rice is not aperson to quote on the subject of acumen . it is totally lacking as her speeches on democracy to muslims show very clearly!!!

when the bosheviks took power in 1917 they knew exactly what to do with the gideons of this world .

johanes no doubt you are an expert at soccer and own goals. no partititon plan was ever ratified and was refused by arabs countless times EVEN THE ANTI SEMITIC UN RECOGNISED THIS WITH RESOLUTION 242 at the present time the 1922 jewish homeland treaty is still extant THERE IS NO OTHER and JEWS ONLY OCCUPY 5%

Come on Gideon .. your sour sop story really brings tears to my eyes....... what bull next Gideon Mr. Left to Lenin . may be Gideon should go and live with the Palestinians as he cries for them out loud..... his Israeli brothers and sisters ain't of interest to this sick fool Gideon must have a solid senility problem in remembering who is the real victim and who is the aggressor here, where was he in the past 60 years and longer .... Gideon tell us who shouts Allah, Allah akabar we want to kill the Jews...... Gideon needs to listen to the Arabic around him. Of course .... Khalid and the Swedish con artist Franzen have a field day lapping up lies and Israel Hate again for a change the Haaretz prints What a super Media Haaretz is..... the more They bash Israel seem to be for them the better But their rules on conduct in TalkBack is obviously like a louse in the hair. Finding the no nits for too much hair.

"How many acts of Palestinian cruelty and brutality has Gideon Levi reported on in the past ten years? There have been thousands, and each day there are tens of violent incidents initiated by the Palestinians." Shalom, More IDF soldiers commit suicide each year than are killed by Palestinians. You people have no case at all for keeping the settlements in tact and certainly no case settlement expansion. Even Condelesa Rice, a great friend of Israel, said as clear as day: NO MORE SETTLEMENT BUILDING. As they say in the U.S. : Friends don't let friends drive drunk! Let's be clear...no expansion of settlements means SETTLEMENT CONTRACTION. This is indeed the first prerequisit to peace.

Well, here racism is taken seriously, but it has also been watered down by some extreme "tolerance people" who cannot accept the idea that foreigners could do anything wrong. Normal criticism is often labeled as racism (and also palestinians have been very good at that...) and it has resulted that meaning of racism has been watered down. Usually they are racists towards their own people, which is somewhat ironic. I don't mind about few comments here and there, as long as they don't cause real harm. We all have to take some insults from time to time. It is far from Hitler's Germany. Especially palestinians should not complain about that kind of things, as long as their media, school system and public opinion is what it is currently. Hypocrisy is not acceptable from anyone, that means also you. And by the way, I wouldn't mind if you don't refer to that again - I honestly don't believe you are that much sorry for what happened there. Settlers may advocate what they wish, as long as they don't brake laws. I condemn current actions against lawful state and causing general disorder. As well as violent actions towards palestinians. But I definitely won't accept it to be used to your propaganda. Besides, if you look at your OWN society, what merit do you think you have to point your finger at problems in Israel? You should put your own society to order, so that you could bring your terrorists, gangsters and other criminals into justice, assure peace and order, and of course basic civil rights. And don't give me that usual excuse again, it is not valid and won't become valid by repeating it like parrot. Regarding final solutions, I'm more concerned about palestinian version of final solution, because they are more capable to do it. Israel can put their people to order, even when it means using force agains some individuals. Palestinians however have proved to be next to nothing, considering trustworthiness, peace deals, agreements and capability to maintain order. Probably only thing that keeps you from committing genoside to jews is IDF. So, you have much work to do if you are planning to be something else than bunch of hypocritical criminals without any sense of responsibility.

Avram, We are talking here about Israel's settlement enterprise and how a huge portion of Israelis have been shielded from the harsh realities of land confiscations, murders, imprisonments... Let's face it, Israelis may be more ignorant of the implications of their violent settlement policy than any other people in the world. But Avram, I doubt you are ignorant of these realities...perhaps that's why you chose to change the topic instead of discussing the topic at hand? eh? Frankly, I don't know how Jews who live in Jerusalem can allow their country to build this terrible wall, through the towns of Beit Hanina and Ram. It's truely disgusting that people in Ram now find their neighbors on the other side of 20 foot high wall...only because some Jewish politicians decided to call the other side Jerusalem. Later- Ibrahim

I never took you for a graduate anyhow. The truth of the matter is that Israel is now 78% of the original Partion Plan. They grabbed land and are still expanding their settlement on occupied land. The Palestinians have agreed to the 22% left, but that is the minimum. The sooner all you right wing extremists understand this, the less dissappointed you'll get.

The incident: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=85048 The video: mms://msmedia.a7.org/arutz7/heb-perm/alimut-shotrim.wmv

Thank you for that explanation. That confirmed my opinion that there could never be a peace agreement or compromise with the palestians. Jordan is a Palestian state Khalid 75% of it is Palestian. Where do you come from maybe Saudi Arabia maybe

SO KHALID , PLEASE PROMISE NOT TO COMPLAIN WHEN THE SKIES FALL IN ON YOU AGAIN!!! THIS JUST THE STUPID ILLOGICALLITY YOU USE EVERY TIME. PROMISE TO DIE WITH A SMILE ON YOUR FACE!!!

its no problem a bit of corruption . italy has managed for many years !

yes mark, what happens in war ??? have you ever been in one ? its like the silence over the death of 900,000 german civillians in ww2,[ or in iraq recently how many ?] was it really necessary to bomb cities day and night without cease! vietnam mai alli bosnia , croatia serbia kashmir we werent there and we didnt make the decisions

How many acts of Palestinian cruelty and brutality has Gideon Levi reported on in the past ten years? There have been thousands, and each day there are tens of violent incidents initiated by the Palestinians. Levi has reported Zero. And is therefore Zero as a reporter.

"A sea of corruption is quickly destroying the Jewish state and no one shows any interest of stopping it." - Petah Tikvah Isn't everyone happy to have disengagement to take people's minds of the graft and corruption?

" " - Deir Yassin Not much to say is there?

"The news from China or India do not excite the world but the news from the Jewish state of Israel do. Can the world get any sicker?" - Remember to wave the bloody flag Why should the world be 'sick' if it is interested in Israel? Israel is a pretty interesting country.

"Stick to the straight and narrow (minded) poems." - IIan Toren Here is one from the past for the Settlers and their Pals. "We are the men without name, without kin, Who forever face terror and death, Who serve our cause for the length of our lives -- A service that ends with our breath, In the days that are red with the flow of our blood, In the nights of blackest despair, Through the length and breadth of our land We shall raise our banner of strength without fear -- Not driven like slaves at the master's command, Forced to die at the stranger's behest, We dream of the time when our people and land By freedom and peace will be blessed." - Abraham Stern Abraham Stern died in a police raid, he was handcuffed, forced to walk towards the door, and shot in the back 'while trying to escape'.

noam that is how the american wild west developed into a country!!!! as i said before gideon should do a piece on the billions written off on kibbutzim and moshavim over 57 years

SAMIL, STILL LOOKING FOR THOSE TITLE DEEDS??? HAVE YOU TAKEN SOMEONES HOUSEIN THE USA ?

dear s and s no one writes like that about any other country!!!! so why do you ask silly questions. when people demonstrate elsewhere do they say its because the dont respect their country!

"(I know "yah" is not a proper word, but I like it , so there." - Pt The only time I have nit-picked anyone's English, was when that person made a big thing over some other persons. I live in a very unconsciously cosmopolitan city, and have been surrounded with people for whom English was a second language for most of my life. Thus, I consider nit-picking as a tactic to not be polite, or productive. Yah hear me?

eisenhower was the worst us president of the 20th century closely seconded by jimmy carter both extremely bad for israel

"It is a duty for these oppressed masses to free themselves from this occupation." - Johanes Franzen Of course they must, it is a folly to imagine that you can 'give' people freedom. If the Palestinians would wage peace as emotionally actively as they wage folly, the would put Israel in a position where it had no choice but to leave. If they even had a significant active and constructive element such as the bulk of Zionists were in the 1940s they probably would be free today. But let us not forget that David Ben-Gurion had - at a crucial and desperate point in the history of Israel - to turn the Haganah's guns on the Irgun before he let them into the government.

the elections in cuba can be compared to those in the soviet union

lesson in arithmetic 1922 jewish homeland 100% [got that ] british steal 77% to form transjordan for arabs. 1948 egypt and jordan steal another !5% 1967 all recaptured oslo cedes 14% and israeli arabs live on $% now jews live on 5% of original homeland OK NOW WELL REPEAT JEWS LIVE ON 5% OF ORIGINAL HOMELAND WHO IS OCCUPYING WHAT!!!!! MARK LINCOLN TAKE NOTE ALSO DUTCH KHALID ANF FRANZEN

"the mantle falling on beigin and shamir weitzmann being too much of a british gentle man kept the general zionists as yes men and lackeys." - paul HARRIS I see, you like some terrorists then. It is not the action, but who is the victim that matters to you. You are totally wrong. The Irgun and Stern group caused a great deal of trouble for the cause of Zionism. Their ruthlessness made it difficult for decent people to negotiate with the British, or appeal to the UN. They were as guilty as any Arab of creating the poisonous atmosphere in the middle east today. Not more guilty, but as guilty. Israel lost any right to criticize the Palestinians for Arafat, when they elected Begin to say nothing of the much more evil Shamir. I can see where you are coming from paul, and I must say I don't care much for it. I have much more respect for people who build than for those who destroy.

Khalid... where did I say I was supporting any supremacists? I pointed out that tarring all of the settlers with one brush is a shameful lie in exactly the same way as it is a lie to tar all Palestinians with the one brush. As you do this all the time, perhaps it's about time you examined your own record before you start with others.

mark, you see my style grabs you and others and they actually attempt areply

Leon is only here to give compassionat Jews a bad name, his "the holocaust is a zionist propaganda ploy blown out of all proportion" isn`t really what a Jew would say, is it?. Ask him if he is for East Jerusalem as the future capital of Palestine. He will then answer "Yes so that the Palestinians can shoot Jews from there". He is pretending that left wing Jews are traitors and thus posting his nonsense, nonsense that are easily seen through. "Yes the PLO have recognized the Green Line as the future border, but they have the right to change their minds any time" etc etc etc Now if you don`t believe it, so what? Have a nice day Dutch. I like your postings.

Funny that about 75% or more of what I know about the evil of the settlement and occupation of the Palestinian territories comes from my reading online of Haaretz over the past three or four years. I guess those who are too close to an issue avoid finding out about things that would make them feel uncomfortable, or make them question the policy of their nation.

Gideon Levy is a gem, a treasure, whom all caring people, people who believe in justice, peace, and civil and human rights for everybody, can stand up and applaud. Mr. Levy has consistently and courageously brought the plight of the Palestinian people to the attention of a somewhat uncaring world, and I, for one, thank him sincerely. He just doesn't write about it. He takes us, via the printed word, to the demolished home, the evil checkpoints, to the grave, and he breaks MY heart when I read about the evil humankind carries out against humankind. God bless you, Mr. Levy, and thank you so much.

Andrew, when did Jews ever seek to use non-violence against their tormentors and occupiers? Against the Assyrians? Against the Romans? Against the Germans? Against the British? Jews had always used violence. and they continue to use violence...Violence and Israel are interchangeable. Besides, tell me one people under occupation who got rid of the occupation without resistance..? The French? The Americans? The Vietnames? The Algerians? In the few years preceding the creation of Israel, Jewish terrorists or guerillas waged a campaign of terror warefare against both the Arabs and the British... So, we are doing the same thing... We will not rely on Jewish magnanimity, and we will get our rights in dignity, not as beggars. If you don't like this, this is your problem...

Why can the settelers not see the logic of their own position, Israel wants to be a "Jewish state", a Democratic state, and keep Gaza and all the land between the sea and the river Jordan. Once you accept all the land will be one state, the Palastinians all have to be given a vote and why not! A democratic Israel with Hamas standing for elections. Or how about allow the Palastinian Authority to take control, withdraw all Israeli support and both civilian and military. If the settelers choose to stay and follow the laws of and pay taxes to a Palistinian authority then let them stay. The problem is the settelers want neither they want all the benefits of being in Israel while denying the same benefits to the other residents of the territories, either it is Israel or Palastine the setterlers can not maintain the fiction forever that it is both.

John Levy asks why we call Jewish settlers extremists? Well, John, the settlers think criminally and act criminally. Think criminally because they are indoctrinated in Jewish messianic ideology which calls for the expulsion, enslavement or extermination of non-Jews living in Palestine/Israel. They reject basic human rights, civil rights and democratic rights. And they think that non-Jews, including Christians living in Bethlehem, ought to be forced to become water carriers and wood hewers for Jews...pursuant Biblical teachings. A few weeks ago, a Jewish settler told Haim Yavin, a long-time Israeli tv anchorman, that "if Jews get united, all non-Jews will become slaves for the Jews..."...Muhammed, she said, "will make cofee for you and for us." Moreover, the settlers believe that it is essential to trigger alot of bloodshed and violence in order to expedite the apperance of the Jewish redeemer...who will bring redemption and rule the world from Jerusalem. And they act criminally, because they are willing and ready to effect their ideology by terror, not only against non-Jews but against Jews as well. A few days ago, one of these settler said "give me the commandof the Isreli armyh for a few days and I will leave no Arab alive..." So, yes, they are extremists and terrorists and those who disagree must be either ignorant or malicious or both. Khalid

I find it extremely ironic that for all the selfrighteous indignation and hatred Mr.Levy shows towards the settlers. He has never even once[as far as I know]shown one ounce of outrage or disgust when the Palestinian mobs danced in the streets and passed out candy to celebrate when innocent Jewish women and children were blown up,or machine gunned in their homes or in buses,cafes,and nursery schools. I am talking about depraved celebrations like these. http://www.jr.co.il/terror/israel/2004/ter3658.jpg http://www.jr.co.il/terror/israel/ter3080.jpg http://www.jr.co.il/terror/israel/ter3026.jpg Of course,I realise that not all the Palestinians are like the evil people in those pictures celebrating the mass murder of innocent Israelis. I also realize there are alot of wonderful,decent Palestinian people who just want to live in peace.Yet,according to their own polls,the majority of them have sadly supported terror attacks against Israeli civilians in the past. One could conclude[irrationally] from that that most of the Palestinian Arabs living in the West Bank are a hateful,murderous group of people. Of course,the pro Palestinian people like Levy would cry racism if someone said that,yet he does the exact same thing when he demonizes all the Jewish people living in the West Bank and Gaza. I also think Mr.Levy is hypocritical in that he is very selective in his compassion. For all the articles he has wrote about Palestinian civilians and children who have been hurt or killed in this war. I have never once heard him write an article about an Israeli child who was killed or injured in a suicide bombing,or who was shot to death in their homes or cars by Palestinian terrorists. I remember in one article he said the settlers were not deserving of compassion. It would take a pretty heartless person to feel no compassion for a man who lost his entire family,and will get kicked out of the only home he had any memories with them in. What is so sadly ironic is that I have heard Mr.Levy say time and time again that the Palestinian terrorists who use violence against Israeli civilians deserve empathy,understanding,and compassion because they are under occupation. But what if they get all the West Bank and Gaza back and have their own state,and yet still commit acts of violence against Israelis? In a poll taken a year ago,Palestinians said that armed struggle should continue even if Israel were to withdrawl from the West Bank and Gaza. Will Mr.Levy and other's like him still feel these people are entitled to compassion and understanding? I am Jewish and do not hate any Arabs. I also support the disengagment and hope and pray there is peace someday so no more Arab and Israeli families have to suffer the loss of their loved ones,yet I do not understand so called humanitarians like Mr.Levy. I do not understand how someone who can show so much empathy and compassion for his enemies,but can not show any for his own people.

Illegal settlements in Gaza & the territories spelled only one thing to Israeli politicians & generals who took the settlers side not for ideology, not for Eretz Israel, but for the huge bribes doled out by the settlers who in turn got the money from the Israeli government. Our PM, Knesset & IDF General Staff are hopelessly corrupt as Former Ramat Kal Ya'alon stated in Ha'aretz "the disturbing criminal culture now practiced by the senior officers of the IDF. A sea of corruption is quickly destroying the Jewish state and no one shows any interest of stopping it.

Sometimes a fly can tell a very important story about a people. A Fly Falls in a Cup of Coffee The English throws the coffee and leave the cafe' The Americans demands another cup of coffee The Mexican removes the insect and enjoys his coffee The Chinese eats the fly and throws away the coffee The dispossessed Palestinian drinks the coffee and eats the fly The Israeli sells the coffee to the American and the fly to the Chinese. then he cries that his security is endangered and accuses the Palestinians of implanting the fly in his coffee; accuses Hezbollah , Iranians and Syrians of training a terrorist fly squad; orders Mahmoud Abbas to arrest all flies and to prevent them from ever dropping in a cup of coffee; imposes on the Americans a much needed military assistance to fight the flies pus few billion dollars in compensation for seeing the anti-Semitic sentiment of the fly . Dutch

Settlers and settlements are the biggest fraud ever perpetuated by Israel and the world Zionist movemwent against the Israeli state, against the Jewish people, againt the US government, against the poor US tax payers. The Palestinians people, if they have any smarts, sometimes I doubt it, should sue Israel, settlers, settlers organizations and sponosrs in Israel and the US for tens of billions of dollars. The same the Jewish community sued Europeans and collected. There should be no difference between the rights of Jews and the rights of Palestinians. Unless one group ( Jewish) is deemed superior in rights and privelidge than the Palestinians!

Johanes- Thanks for your updates and commentaries. I appreciate them very much. I wish you would apologize to Leon and press on. (You did start this name calling first.) I feel we are all lucky to have two such concerned men on this web page. Besides, you would make us all feel better and yourselves too. Dutch

"Had at any point the Palestinian leadership been shrewd enough to wage unrelenting peace in the Ghandi fashion Israel would have been forced from the occupied territories long ago." It's hardly disputable that Hamas et. al would be more admirable if they adopted Gandhi-like satyagraha instead of matching the chauvanism of the IDF. However, Israel has historically reacted coldly to non-violence. The first Intifada (1987-1992) consisted mainly of Palestinians waging general strikes and protests...and getting beaten or shot for their trouble. Suggested reading: The Palestinian Uprising by Robert Hunter. Israel's record also includes deporting Palestinians who advocate co-existance, like former Bethlehem mayor Elias Freej. Today, IDF reaction to demos in a-Ram and Biddu indicate non-violent resistance across the board would still be met with IDF violence, and keeping the occupied territories.

i second that!!

Remember 9/11, don't abuse it.

those of you that claim the lynching was staged by journalists are pathetic, you sink to a new low, even for extremists. it represents the truly paranoid and hallucinitory "reality" you live in. on the other side, johannes franzen is simply a terrorist supporter. there is nothing more to him. he sees through a tunnel so thin its a straw, no reality can penetrate it. tell me johannes, if most palestinians want the intefada to end, why dont you? maybe your real name is Kalid and your just double posting.

Accessol-- I think you out did yourself this time with your plan for getting rid of the settlers! I think this was very cleverly put together. Although, I think it is very important to note not all settlers are radical. Still, their collective indifference towards their Palestinian neighbors is so cruel and un-neighborly. Did I tell you about the memo I got from a friend who was very concerned about some poor Palestinians in a little village (Quira?) who were endanger of losing their water supply while the settlers in the nearby settlements were running their sprinklers and swimming pools? I feel Israel is promoting this greed and indifference with its build-up of settlements. They are forcing local Palestinians to do with less and less. It's a shameful injustice. Dutch P.S. I love your posts! Nothing like stating the truth!

how do you feel about this website: http://www.muslimworldtoday.com/index.htm

Not to mention filmed footage, and all the prop needed to stage it. Steven has a problem with the truth as do all of his "friends" here. Truth is their worst enemy. -"The attack was filmed by several journalists, and various media outlets have given the police their raw footage to aid them in identifying the suspects. The footage revealed that the stoning was largely perpetrated by three people, and Southern District police officers said that they have identified two of the three, one teen and one adult. Both are residents of West Bank settlements who had come to Gaza to protest the disengagement. The third is also a teenager, and police said that one of the two teens has been in involved in previous "ideological" crimes.2-

for telling it as it is!

i was awestruck after reading Levys article. i didn't know it was possible to prove 2+2=5. i stand corrected.... 'nuf said.

However they all know the name of the Israeli PM, a country of 6M people. Is it sick or what? The news from China or India do not excite the world but the news from the Jewish state of Israel do. Can the world get any sicker?

Stick to the straight and narrow (minded) poems.

They hate Jews but cannot get enough of them. They post on Zionist channel and totally immersed in all news from Israel. Israel/Jews must be very profitable for the news networks.

Had the Jews committed such crimes the world would have come out against the Jews in a 100-foot tidal wave but the crimes were committed by those who hate the Jews and the world is very quiet about it. Typical!

I can bear your pompous pendantry no more. You're a bright, well educated guy and you make some excellent points, but give it a rest every now and then, will yah. (I know "yah" is not a proper word, but I like it , so there.

The paradox of settlers thinking that if they turn against their state ,their state will support them... is lost on them. "Gaza isn't worth it", isn't a view brought on by submission by the Palestinians. They refused to guarantee the safety of the occupiers and now Israel finds itself, having sacrificed so much for the settler movement, in a position where any holding on to the Gaza Strip would be like handing their "settler foes" a victory. Many have stated that if only the Palestinian have had a peaceful "Gandhi style" Intifada then they would have achived their goals a long time ago. Let me reminds those that the IDF&Border Police killed 60 Palestinians before the first Israeli death. They also killed 13 Israeli Palestinians. Those 73-0 statistics only bettered when the armed Intifada started, now its 3-1 (however when it comes to children the statistic is 7-1). "It isn't worth it", why of course it isn't worth it. One day Israel will look back on this failed enteprise of a Greater Israel on the backs of the Palestinians and count their deads. "No" they will say, it wasn't worth it, while the Liberated Palestinians will at the same time look back and say "Yes" it was worth it. Freedom has a price, just as a ruthless occupation should have.

Because they have nothing else to offer.

The world is creating a 23 Arab state on the Jewish land, Hamastan, based on violence and corruption.

I was not aware that the settlers holding the hotel killed anyone. Can you enlighten us why they are called extreamist for exceriseing their democratic right.

Zeev-- I am enclosing a letter posted yesterday on Addicted to Occupation by Kameel post # 260. I thought your letters was completely the opposite from Kameel's letter -- yet they held the same desire for peace and reconciliation. Both letters spoke very loudly to me. I think the one thing I see from preventing the Palestinians from moving towards peace and away from violence is the shocking aggression by the Israeli army: the brutal military incursion; the indiscriminate killing (4:1 ratio in deaths) ); the arbitrary arrests (over 7,000 still in jail); the immoral targeted killings; the ongoing home demolition's and land confiscation and the fanatical build up of settlements. I feel these are the major stumbling blocks. Still, I think the best thing for you to do is to talk to someone like Kameel and decide where you need to give and take. Like the Beatles said: "We can work it out. Life is very short and there's no time; for fussing and fighting, my friend." Dutch Kameel's Letter, Addicted to Occupation (post # 260) Viva Khalid, Irene,Nicolas and Tity, and all those who can force their eyes to be open to the only course of malpractice and injustice that is perpetrated against Palestinians, who in turn end up being blamed for not agreeing to be displaced, humiliated and tortured. They are actually blamed for not abandoning their fate and future to the (benevolent) Israelites, who came after centuries to reclaim the land that was, supposedly, promised to them. They are labeled as terrorists, for defending their forefathers land and then...what do you call settlers who do what they do, to defend stolen land. And to all those who cannot see,,,,for your sake too ... please listen to the logic of history. And do not fool yourself with the belief that you are different. kameel

Yes the Palestinians live under foreign occupation, a ruthless, illegal and brutal occupation. It is a duty for these oppressed masses to free themselves from this occupation. We all know this truth.

And that includes theatrical Blood.

without the stimulus of irgun; ben gurion would have sat on his hands for ever! the schtetl mentality pervaded world zionist leaders and it was only jabotinsky that stirred events. the mantle falling on beigin and shamir weitzmann being too much of a british gentle man kept the general zionists as yes men and lackeys. it was revisionism that got things on the move. it is revisionism taken over by the religious that keep things on the move

ronnie , have you ever done a job that requires muscle and thought. or do you sell real estate

"castro was another in a line of dictators seizing power, this time is was without permission of the usa" - paul harris Actually we had given him some tacit backing. President Eisenhower once referred to Castro as "the George Washington of the Caribbean". Castro soon disillusioned Ike, and pissed off US corporations and the Mafia who both had close ties with Batista. I can remember gun runners leaving from Mashta and Key Biscayne to take arms to Castro. . .

Back in '67, I was hoping that Israel would bring good governance to the inhabitants of Gaza and the West Bank. The propaganda emanating from that time certainly gave the impression of economic advancement among the Palestinians and nurtured the impression that the two peoples were on their way to living in amicable dignity side by side. That the settlement enterprise was going ahead full steam under the covers was artfully concealed, especially from the US voting public, even though it has been their tax dollars that has made the whole thing possible. The Likudisation of US public opinion and its concommitant selective moral blindness has reached even into the deepest recesses of Bush's brain so that he has in many ways come to conduct himself as a Sharon on the world stage, with all that that entails. The world's reaction to 9/11 was grief -- except in Gaza where they danced in the streets -- likely because those US tax dollars over the past thirty-some years had been financing the miseries visited upon them by the occupation and the settlements. Maximum security prisons corrupt the morals of both the inmates and the guards. It's going to take a long time to recover from the moral corrosion of the occupation and the settlements. South Africa is still suffering the after-effects of apartheid decades afterward, and if you think they have it hard, take a look at Zimbabwe. The first real step to recovery will be getting out of each other's hair by implementing the boundaries agreed to in Geneva. I expect a well defended wall on the Geneva boundaries will be needed as it's going to take decades for the tensions to calm down.

Even though your questions set forth in Post 104 were not directed specifically to me, I will try to answer them. The last time that I was in Cuba was in June of 1959, when I was a twenty-year old single man. The Jewish community of Key West, Florida, during the 1890's raised money to assist Jose Marti in his struggle for Cuban independence. Jose Marti was killed in 1895, and like Vladimir Jabotinsky, Jose Marti never lived to see the birth of the country that he fought for. Cuba has never had democracy, but various dictators and army generals who seized power. This may be hard for you to believe, but the United States State Department actually supported the Castro insurgency in 1959. My cousins lived in a neighborhood (reparto) of la Habana that was called in Spanish Santos Suarez. After 1959, it became to be pronounded in Yiddish "Santos Tzurris." There are very few Jews remaining in Cuba today, considering that there was a 15,000 member community in January of 1959.

Growing up in Miami it was hard not to learn some Cuban history. For the first 30 years of the last century the US enforced the right to veto any legislation by the Cuban government, but as part of the "Good Neighbor Policy" we stopped intervening. The Constitutions of 1901 and 1940 provided for democratic governments. Batista overthrew the provisional government in 1933 and was the power behind a succession of presidents. Batista was ELECTED President of Cuba in 1940 and was responsible for the very progressive Constitution of 1940. President Grau was elected in 1944 and Socarras in 1948. In 1952 Batista overthrew the democratic government of Cuba and imposed himself as dictator. During the 1950s his rule became ever more corrupt and oppressive. This led to the middle class backing Castro, and the fall of Batista. After Castro took power Batista supporters fled to Miami, followed by many middle class Cubanos as Castro lurched to the left. It is inconceivable that Castro could have taken power had not Batista's dictatorship been so vile.

PH:i think that nothing is ggoing to work because as they say too many cooks spoil the broth. But mentioning just some of them doesnt help either Paul (see below) what about Kosher and Halal cooks,Paul? PH:in any event there will be no peace until all muslim countries recognise israel What do the religious right think about this? Wont they want to keep Samaria dn Judea or is NOT an issue? PH:the un is reformed into democratic countries only I think we need to reform the world into democratic countries PH:a new source of energy is available and we dont depend on oil. Good one! PH:muslims respect womens human rights OK PH:since this will take afew hundred years you get my point Paul you havent mentioned ANY religious points.You know you write on Shabbas like me but you also know that their are fundamental religious issues yet you dont mention them.Why? You dont think they are important? You cant deal with them?

Another wind up merchant is in our midst! But I'll let the others tell you about Hamas and Jihad and the rest of the fundamentalist groups. How many people does it take for some people to understand there are two sides to most stories and there is mucho air wasted on just magnifying one side of it.WE ALL KNOW THE TRUTH. (Except for the extremists themselves,well,hell they deep down probably know the truth too but are too afraid to face it)

"WHAT YOU ARE POINTING TO IS THAT JABOTINSKY WAS A REVISIONIST" - paul harris He did found the Revisionist Zionist Party. He also advocated aggressive terrorism by Jewish Palestinians. His splinter group eventually gave rise to the Irgun Zvai Leumi and Lohmey Heruth Israel. The division between Zionists who practiced restraint in retaliation and those who practiced outright terrorism remains between the Labor and Likud parties today. Moreover the divide between those who favored "constructive resistance" and those who favored destruction is also apparent in the two major Israeli parties today. "IRGUN WAS A POST WW2 ACTIVITY AND AIMED AT GETTING THE BRITISH TO FULFIL THE TERMS OF THE MANDATE ." - PAUL HARRIS The Irgun formed in the mid-1930s. "WHAT YOU SEE AS ACTIVE ZIONISM TODAY ARE THE RELIGIOUS BLOC WHO HAVE REPLACEDTHE COMMUNIST ZEAL WITH A RELIGIOUS ONE " - paul harris What I see is Zionism fulfilled. I see a Jewish state where Jews from the entire world may seek refuge. What I also see is a small group of religious fanatics who are now a threat to that state.

HARRIS: #81 RONNIE DWELLS IN CLOUD CUCKOO LAND Its funny Paul that the cuckoo clock itself is proactive more than you.It strikes 12 of its own accord.It doesnt await the cuckoo does it. Not like you,Paul,eh? Eh?,Paul?

Gideon Levy a MORAL GIANT .Few like him in the world. Thank God for men like him. Always liked his courage! Peace be with you, Vicky

"The Left calls the Hamas groups that kill innocent jewish civilians militants" Those who kill innocent civilians are criminals, regardless of their religion, and regardless of whether they wear a kippa or are dressed in military uniform, or have Arab-Sounding names. Murder is murder. However, it is equally true that there are thousands of Arab guerillas who don't target innocent civilians. Those we can't call terrorists. If we do, we only discredit ourselves and insult language. Khalid

Tripewriters,Confusers,Herring Machines (red),cd rongs are all in the arsenal of these flea-actionaries. Their facts machines must not be working real well...

it is founded on the principle of a jewish homeland this is impossible to change and remain israel

Michael wrote: "I don`t have to go very far to find comment that says some people should be put into ovens. " Michael, history has taught us to take everything seriously. If the world had taken the Nazis seriously in 1936 and 1938...Maybe some aweful things wouldn't have happened. Today, the settlers, or many of them, openly advocate genocide in the name of God and the Torah and the Talmud and Eretz Yisrael. We must not wait until they carry out their evil programmes and final solutions. Khalid

i think that nothing is ggoing to work because as they say too many cooks spoil the broth. in any event there will be no peace until all muslim countries recognise israel the un is reformed into democratic countries only a new source of energy is available and we dont depend on oil. muslims respect womens human rights since this will take afew hundred years you get my point

"The problem with lines are that they only let you on one side of it or another." - Ronnie Wolman And then the line moves. I have watched the 'center' in the United States go from moderate left to far right in 40 years. Barry Goldwater was from the 'right' of the Republican party when he was defeated by Lyndon Johnson in 1964, yet by the time he died a few years back, he was being denounced by Republicans as a "liberal who's lost it." Yet he had not changed his opinions at all. Israel has undergone a similar shift.

now you've given it away... just a hint, to not make it so obvious maybe vary your writing styles just a little?

"YOU MIGHT COME UP WITH SOME REAL POINTS!11" - paul harris "!11"? Did you run out of breath from shouting and have to let up on the shift key resulting in the uncharacteristic '11' instead of the unnecessary second and third exclamation points?

Dear Warren-- I think Leon Rodgarten's infallible logic is like Gandhi's infallible truth and love leading the way. ( listed below) That the Palestinian people will get their land back and the settlers will leave--one way or another. This truth and love has already taken hold in hearts and minds of people all over the world. I feel this was unanimously expressed and acknowledged in the 150 countries who voted against wall, the six American presidents who opposed the settlements; and the US lawmakers who told Ralph Nader that they are signing on the dotted line for Israel against their better judgment; and the world wide boycotts and isolation of Israel that will surely follow until this problem is settled. Dutch Mahatma Gandhi Quote: When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall - think of it, ALWAYS. - Mahatma Gandhi

mark im fascinated with your history of cuba? tell me when there was democratic rule after 1902 or even before then? castro was another in a line of dictators seizing power, this time is was without permission of the usa

Keep it up. Soon you will have lot's of people convinced that there are two kinds of humanoids: people and settlers. You are the ones who railed against ther Right for their incitement that supposedly led to Rabin's assasination. Now you are leading the way with incitement against a whole population in Israel. Heck, you'll probably filter this one out as well...

"Eyewitness: The Media-Reported "Lynch" was Staged "A young Palestinian boy lynched by Jewish rock-throwers is in mortal condition." So repeated public Israeli news reports late last week - while in fact, the entire affair was staged by reporters. http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=85063" - Steven I checked it out. A story based upon a single 'eyewitness' who wishes only to be identified by two letters, A.D., and therefore a story which cannot be checked by anyone. And, I might add, a story at wide variance with that reported by numerous other persons who are willing to be identified.

But maybe you dont understand my question. So I must think you are nothing but a reactionary and a wind up merchant.

"We also want to talk about the Palestinian conflict. There is a possibility for the G8 countries, the industrialized countries, to help the Palestinians," Bush was quoted as saying in the interview with Danish daily Jyllands-Posten. This chance,for the Palestinians. may never come again.

"if i list the tripe writers " - paul harris A tripewriter? Some sort of composing device made from cattle intestines?

The left says that the Settlers are extreamist for protesting peacefully as the right in any democrocy. The Left calls the Hamas groups that kill innocent jewish civilians militants. Who is the left and the peace groups working for anyway Israel or the United States or the PA?

"We all know that we could be much furhter down the road towards peace had also they played a more constructive role." - zeev Had at any point the Palestinian leadership been shrewd enough to wage unrelenting peace in the Ghandi fashion Israel would have been forced from the occupied territories long ago.

MARK, THE REAL RESIDUAL POWER IN ISRAEL HAS ALWAYS REMAINED WITH THE LEFT AND TODAY IT NEEDS A SPECIAL COURT TO DEAL WITH UNRULY AND UNCARING UNIONS. WHAT YOU ARE POINTING TO IS THAT JABOTINSKY WAS A REVISIONIST AND NEVER ACCEPTED PERFIDIOUS ALBIONS ACTIONS IN THE 1922 MANDATE, HAVING PREVIOUSLY ORGANISED THE JEWISH BRIGADE IN WW1. YOU WILL FIND IN ISRAEL AMNY STREETS NAMED AFTER HIM. IRGUN WAS A POST WW2 ACTIVITY AND AIMED AT GETTING THE BRITISH TO FULFIL THE TERMS OF THE MANDATE . AS AT THAT TIME BRITAIN HAD AN ANTI SEMITIC GOVERNMENT INSTEAD OF FULFILMENT THEY CHOSE TO LEAVE AND AT THE SAME TIME TO LEAVE THE JEWS DEFENCE LESS. THIS HAS NOT AFFECTED THE DEEPLY INGRAINED MENTAL ATTITUDES OF THE LEFT WING WHICH PERVADE THE COUNTRY TODAY. WHAT YOU SEE AS ACTIVE ZIONISM TODAY ARE THE RELIGIOUS BLOC WHO HAVE REPLACEDTHE COMMUNIST ZEAL WITH A RELIGIOUS ONE AND REFUSE TO BE COMPROMISED BY POLITICIANS WHO WOULD SELL THEEIR GRANDMOTHERS FOR ANICKEL!.

I'm not very sure if Sharon's motivation really is security, because majority of security officials seem to disagree with him on the issue. For example Moshe Ya'alon has criticised Sharon's move. I believe he knows what he is talking about. As I have mentioned before, there has been some informatin that palestinians are preparing for more violence and war, so I wouldn't count on security of disengagement.

The problem with lines are that they only let you on one side of it or another. I call myself a centrist but actually within a line the centre IS moral relativism. But I dont actually think the way of the line. Because of our limited vision we need symbols to define where we are. Actually the Left and the Right are relative terms. As for people who are fundamentalists.They are FIXED.But are they:- Is Shneerson the Moshiach? I,on the other hand believe in the circle.I believe we are all in this circle.All trying to work out what its all about. I think democracy is the best system to come around so far,better than any absolutism. It contains the mutual respect that most other systems dont have as their hierarchy and so is different.It is also a work in progress and that is good. The underclass is doing better in this system where people are more important than old bricks.Business is important.Environment is important.Everybody has a chance and a choice. It is far better than the elitist systems of the past. Plus within democracy we can see that ultimately we are more the same than different. Its just the old cultures hath given and hath taken away.

RONNIE, WHERE ARE YOUR SOURCES ?????????????? SHARON IS NOT WHAT???? SHARON HAS BEEN FOR ALL OF HIS LIFE THE NO 1 EXPONENT OF JEWS LIVING IN ERETZ YISROEL! HE HAS NEVER CARED A FIG ABOUT ARABS ! AND RONNIE IF YOU ASK THE QUESTION "WHY" ABOUT EVERYTHING BEFORE BLOWING YOUR OWN TRUMPET YOU MIGHT COME UP WITH SOME REAL POINTS!11

George.....what is truth? the problem is that we see ugliness mostly in others, hardly in ourselves. when was the last time you or I for that matter, paused for a sec. and said to yourself/myself:'Hey , that was pretty stupid or ugly what I just did. No, I never heard of the theft of land from your family in beit jala in particular, only in very general terms such as "our security requirements makes an adjustment of the fence - in our favour of course" necessary." And since there were less bombers coming across the line, we all believed that this was a necessary step, it works and that it's ok. Threatening each other does not advance us anywhere....we must start to talk with each other, look into each others eyes and learn that we are both members of the same human race...what are we fighting over? this forum shows quite impressively that you can sit about anywhere in the world and paricipate in a common activity that interests you. Why are we still fighting over territory?

"My relative`s business went away, just like everyone else`s business." - Johnny Weintraub One cannot overlook the reason that Castro was able to take over in Cuba. Cuban democracy had been overthrown by a military dictator, Batista, and his government was so corrupt, so oppressive and so despised that a revolution became possible.

The main thing is for the settlers to be immediately removed trom the Occupied Territories before they can commit any more crimes against humanity. Their actions over the last three or four decades must be fully researched for possible criminal prosecution and also fully documented for posterity; future generations should know to what depth we sank and how/why we did not prevent these crimes from happening. However due to the fact that many of the most egregious settlers are of US nationality and are probably thus immune to prosecution in Israel, as a result of bilateral agreements with the US, perhaps they could be moved in the best CIA tradition of 'rendition' to a third-party country for questioning, preferably one with a similar level of morality to the settlers themselves that is not too fasidious in the application of human rights.

I don't have to go very far to find comment that says some people should be put into ovens. Usually that kind of comments are not thrown too seriously. Also, whant couple of posters say here is not really threatening, because they are big minority - in palestinians opinions that jews should be put into ovens and that Hitler should have completed his work are much more common than views that palestinians should be showed to the oven. You are again being very dishonest, but it doesn't suprise me anymore. Looking at the numbers, you are far from extinction or genoside. Your numbers have grown more than your economy can sustain and you are your biggest threats because you simply decline every realities in the world. Then you cry because you suffer... how pathetic. Point is that few individuals cannot commit genoside. It would require much more, and it would also result an outcry in world, and also inside Israel. So cut the crap and get your facts straight before trying to lecture anything.

Sergey my friend,pls write the message in the message line,the subject in the subject line and your name in the name line. I know I know...bloody leftists,right?

"Why would one think the 250 000 jews are occupiers?" - alan Occupation is an English word. It has meanings. The third meaning of Occupation is: 3 a : the act or process of taking possession of a place or area : SEIZURE b : the holding and control of an area by a foreign military force c : the military force occupying a country or the policies carried out by it Understand now?

Eyewitness: The Media-Reported "Lynch" was Staged "A young Palestinian boy lynched by Jewish rock-throwers is in mortal condition." So repeated public Israeli news reports late last week - while in fact, the entire affair was staged by reporters. http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=85063

Where are they? Is there a REAL Rabbi in the house?

ronnie, the error you continually make is that you think your opinion is important .it isnt that what you see has already been decided somewhere by a minority. likud told sharon they are the ruling party over and over again NO DISENGAGEMENT SHARON SAID HE WOULD RESPECT THEIR DECISION .BEING SHARON HE IGNORED THEM! AT THE PRESENT TIME IN ISRAEL THE POPULATION IS SPLIT EVENLY ON THE SUBJECT AND IF A REFERENDUM WERE HELD TODAY SHARON WOULD LOSE !! THE QUESTION OF ARABS PER SE HAS BEEN SHELVED BY ADMINISTRATION AFTER ADMINISTARTION IN ORDER NOT TO UPSET THE POPULATION BALANCE SO THE DE JURE POSITION OF ISRAELS SOVEREIGNITY IS FARCICAL IN LEGAL TERMS. the oslo accord was a failure because the gangster plo were never serious and instead of making a place for the arabs incited them to more terrorism. stealing everything that was not bolted down in my opinion abbas is not serious and is merely playing for time AS IN MOST COUNTRIES THE POPULATION IS BEING LED BY THE NOSE BY DISHONEST POLITICIANS WHO HAVE NOT EXPLAINED WHY , HOW AND THE END RESULT OF THE PRESENT CHAOS

Absolut tosh. The fact is that Israel simply can't afford holding on to it, finacially or diplomaticly as well at the human cost and the higher birth rates among the Palestinians. It's a gift alright, but to the Israelis. Now treat yourse3lf to another gift and get the hell out of the West Bank...YES including East Jerusalem and while your at it leave the Golan and the Sheba Farms. Once back behind the Green Line(s)you can't start to work hard to earn enough to pay compensation for all of your greed and war crimes. Now that would be a gift to the whole world.

"since israel was founded by communists and socialists there is in its society a residual stupidity that resounds through the generations." - paul harris While it is true that the majority of the Zionist who founded Israel were 'leftists', there were elements of the extreme right such as Jabotinsky's black shirts, and the terrorists of the Irgun. It was the 'leftists' who built Israel, and it is the decendents of those David Ben-Gurion deemed "Jewish Nazis" who have ruled as israel blundered into Lebanon, and has stagnated due to the cost of occupation. During the first 30 years of Israel's existence we saw great development, great growth, and what have we seen since 1978?

I just think the left is weak. I didnt say what you said Mr paul Harris of no known ideas is the culprit. As far as Sharon goes,the reason he can change is that he is not an idealogie apart from wanting Israel to be secure. SECURITY is his base. He is no American lackey,no left ,no right just for security (ok the corruption stuff is different and would have to be dealt with LATER if its true)

"Chanah worte: "I have just noticed that in one of your replies to my post yesterday tou called me promiscuous." You are being dishonest. I never called you promiscuous. And Ha'aretz wouldn't let such a thing pass uncensored. I challenge you to cite the quotation. Khalid

"How come the whole world (including USA) is aware of occupation, with all horrors it includes, and the israelis are not?" - Bainem Who says they are not? There have always been Israelis aware of the occupation and the cost of that occupation to both the Palestinians and Israelis. There has long been debate in some of the Israeli press over what was happening. There are reasons why the Likud resorted to illegal means to fund the settlements - laws had been passed to restrict such funding. Any Israeli who did not know, simply didn't want to know.

They ARE tripe writers and also rude aand come to think of it you are not that pleasant of a writer but we cannot say that you are tripe,we havent heard any view from you? Are you a wind up merchant or not?

"was it all about timing; the attempt at greater israel was made too late - after the un and cnn came onto the scene, nothing could be hidden." - silkbreeze For the first decade after the Six Day War Israel hoped to trade land for peace with Egypt, Jordan and Syria. Israel could never annex the lands while there was a significant Arab population. When the Likud decided to try and force the Palestinians to leave, it was already too late, but not because of the UN or CNN; rather simply because the pattern of occupation had been established in everyone's minds. ". . .we defended our role of occupiers by saying that we were `good` occupiers (each to their own response to that);'' - silkbreeze The English loved to think that their 'subjects' loved them for occupying their nations. The French loved to think they brought culture to the heathen. Tojo's Japanese were assured that they were driving out colonialists, and bringing the Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere to the lands they conquered. No one likes being occupied though. . . .

Warren, there are many Jewish people who share the leftist doctrine expoused by Leon Rosgarten. Perhaps, they have not immigrated to Australia, or, if they have, they keep quiet. My cousin in la Habana, Cuba, once owned a business several blocks away from a tailor shop that was being operated by Fabio Grobart, a Polish immigrant to Cuba. Fabio Grobart became the head of the Cuban Communist party. My relative's business went away, just like everyone else's business. The United Kingdom is a democracy, and Leon Rosgarten has every right to express his views. We just do not have to comply with them.

any progress on the gay rights thing ? Your house is such a mess, how in the world do you think you willl ever have peace?

Ok Paul so you,the reactionary,I will have to discuss AGAIN,what an extremist is. A Islamic extremist is a) an Islamic fundamentalist that only sees a pan Muslim Middle east b) also a Palestinian,maybe kicked out of their houses,or possibly suffering hardships from Israel (and for sure treated badly by their own leaders) who is so frustrated he goes to extreme measures, bombing etc Jewish extremism: a) Religious fundamentalism G-d gave us the land so we must take it,defend it. The Palestinians are low life goyim etc There are several factors that make them both different: The fact that Israel has the status quo( and we see what happens when they are not protected by the status quo,Oil and Nails) Death is looked on as possible honour in Muslim society,so suicide bombing doesnt exactly the same meaning for the Palestinians as the Israelis (though how many people deplore it,Im not sure). The Left also has an extreme as do the Christians as do the soccer fans But IN EACH CASE IT IS A MINORITY Germany had an extreme too,they didnt call them Germans,they called them Nazis but it wasnt the nazis who were the problem.It was the silent majority of gGermans who knew what was happening who did nothing to help. IT IS FOR ALL ISRAELIS TO STAND UP AND SAY WE ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE,NO MORE DEAD BABIES AND BACK SHARON FOR A NEW RELATIONSHIP WITH THE PALESTINIANS AND TO THE PALESTINIANS:SAY WHAT YOU WILL BUT GIVING UP GAZA IS A GIFT,PLEASE RESPECT THAT SO WE CAN GO ON AND GET YOU A REASONABLE AND JUST PEACE BUT DONT BLOW IT.BECAUSE IF YOU ARE TOO SMUG YOU CAN EASILY. DONT LET THE EXTREMISTS WIN.THEY ARE NOT THERE TO HELP YOU,ONLY TO GET POWER. Now we know what extremists are Paul,so on the pro active side WHERE DO YOU FIT IN????

if the left are communists and socialists look at the total mess they make when getting power. since israel was founded by communists and socialists there is in its society a residual stupidity that resounds through the generations. the two classsical idots coming from this background sharon and peres. the others on the fringe like beilin are the fifth column who wish to desroy the society from which they sprang!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i mention ilan pappe as unbalanced member of the left and typical of some who need treatment !

"Sharon is the face of the new anti extremists,the strong centre that is backed by America,so the old Left/Right is not a factor" - Ronnie Wolman Sharon is his same old extremist self. He sought to win an election by starting some rioting by Palestinians. It worked, and now the cost of the infitada has forced hard decisions on him. It has forced him into a coalition government. It has forced him to withdraw from areas too difficult and expensive to defend. These are not the actions of a man who is suddenly a moderate. These are actions of a man who is trying to hang on to power. "Pouring oil and nails is moral? Killing an Israeli Prime Minister is moral?" - Ronnie When killing that PM kills hope for peace and clears the way for the return of the Likud to power, it is considered moral by most right wing Israelis. "Wake up self hating leftists, your world is about to collapse!!! " - Ronnie You are the hater Ronnie, You can't imagine decent people like themselves.

Michael wrote: "Nobody has threatened you with extinction or genoside. Do you really think that anyone buys that crap?" Where are you? Don't you read what Posters say on this forum? What does "Arabs to the ovens" sound to you..an invitation to Disny Land? Khalid

We, as palestinians, are 57 years looking at inmigrants that come to our lands, take them in the name of the "jewish people". Years of suffering, and nobody told us, but from the night to the morning we were the risponsables of decades of ghettos in Europe. Now, that jewish historians like Illan Pope and Avi Shlaim, or journalists like Gideon Levi and Amira Hass show you what your propaganda hided for years, the fascism inside your minds come once again. To finish, we (palestinians) never had the authority to take our lands back, my family lost for the wall lands that come from 15 generations ago in Beit Jala, and many isralis are calm with that. You will see that without ocupation in the 22% of historical Palestine and a change in your racist policies (that made me delay my marriage with my sweet palestinian-israeli girl friend from Galilee), any kind of excuse from extremist movements will be silenced by the society.

does this answer your question. if i list the tripe writers they usually edit that message out so i ll just let you guess

Please don't talk of honesty or integrity or any other value-laden word, as you have none of these. I have just noticed that in one of your replies to my post yesterday tou called me promiscuous. You have called me all sots of names from criminal to settler to religious (what is bad about this??) in the most derisive manner. Besides having a fetish for sexually ridden vocabulary (that is your business) I want to get one (or 2 ) things straight. I am neither promiscuous, a whore, a slut, a prostitute and have never taken money for sex. I am not a criminal, have never been arrested, have barely received a speeding ticket and always park only where allowed. I have never stolen anything and all I have was gained by my own hard-earned money. I am neither a settler nor religious. I am however a Jew and a Zionist, and am proud to be both. My posts are neither obscene, nefarious, disgusting or whatever other adjectives you wish to chose. You said something about projection, didn't you? Now Khaled, I think I made some relevant points in my posts yesterday about the lack of freedom of the press in the PA as well as the oppression of women in your society. I also said why I think that both have no connection to the occupation and that this was being used as an excuse to enforce both. So instead of responding to the points I made, which I think are valid, you attack with the vilest of language, hoping to .... what?? By the way, this is how Arafat reacted to Barak's offer.... no counter offer, just a war. You make me realize that women in the PA have no hope of ever gaining equal rights - all you need to do is call them whores and then their brothers can come and kill them and be justified. Poor women. SO my request here, on this public forum, is to stop calling me names, giving me titles, and attributing to me that which I am not. You are doing what every racist does - you are classifying me according to your preconceived ideas of what people should think and then assigning me to a category according to what you don't agree with.

I agree with much what you said but you ignore an imortant factor. What about the palaestinians themselves. We all know that we could be much furhter down the road towards peace had also they played a more constructive role. Not only we are to blame for the dire situation around us.

im still not sure who is the occupier of the disputed territories. Why would one think the 250 000 jews are occupiers? They simply have settled the land of their forefathers. When the palestinians stop sending their ambassadors (human bombs) into Israel we can have peace.

your comments have been noted and duly filed

"I did not know that hundreds of Palestinian homes were razed due to Gush Katif`s existence. " - Leon Rosgarten It was never a secret. "The most outrageous revelation: 60% of them have a family member who receives a salary from the state." - ibid Outrageous? It has never been a secret that the settlers were highly subsidized by the state of Israel. No doubt you would be shocked, shocked, that there is gambling at Rick's.

"The only novelty is that suddenly they are showing this on television." - Gideon Levy Suddenly the target of the settlers is Israel and not mere Arabs.

But please get yourself a real name,such a name to go through life with is no life,let alone a name. But PTMWIW I agree with you. Enough already of the reactionary stuff. TODAY,TODAY we need to start a new relationship with the Palestinians,of that relies on accountability and mutual respect. Israel gives up Gaza. The Palestinians have the next move....

Mr. Levy: You accuse everyone but yourself of wrong. Your heart bleeds for the Arab but have you given a thought about the blood that has been spilled by the very same people you defend? You claim that these Arabs have rights which you are the very first to protect. But what of the rights of 19 teenagers who were blown up in the Dolphenarium? How's about the rights of 26 others that were blown up at a Passover Seder in Netanya. Must I remind you of the rights of another 1,000 Jews who have been murdered since the year 2000? You think that giving these very same Arabs all of Yesha they will make peace with you. What of the 19 or so years before 1967 when we had no Yesha? Did these Arabs make peace with the Jewish People? Were there no terrorists back then? Just ask a few who have suffered. Oslo has proven itself to be a major mistake in judgment. The Jewish People have suffered from your ideology. The expulsion of the Jews of Gaza and the Shomron will probably prove to be a mistake as well. Who are you to even suggest what is right and wrong? You haven't gotten a thing right so far. The Rabbis say that "all Jews will have a portion of the World to Come". I really hope they are wrong. You really don't deserve it! Ceaser

THE IDF has a long record of white washing the dirty record of the settlers, who had been terrorising their Palestinian neighbours for years It happened in the presence of a NYT reporter. We were given evidence about a murder of a villager from the village QADDUM, by a setller from KEDUMIM Following the murder John Kifner, of the Times tried to enter the village. An IDF roadblock was in place, to hinder journalists from gaining access to the village, and to the violent truth. Kifner succeed to get to the vllage, circumventing the IDF roadblock' which was commanded by... the lawyer of MAARIV, a Mr. Disenchik...

Paul please re-read the list of all of your responses. Do you have ANYTHING to add in a positive way to this forum or are you just a reactionary?

you are the most illogical contributor on this site. i do not think anyone in their right mind takes any of what you say with a grain of salt.

Nobody has threatened you with extinction or genoside. Do you really think that anyone buys that crap?

Once again, Gideon Levy calls our attention to the many human monsters in Israeli society which in many ways reflect the monsters in all our human societies. Yes, the settlers are monsters but so too are Israeli officials who signed on the dotted line for settlement expansion/entitlements and the various lobby groups who help prop them up. Yes, the media is to blame for its under coverage of homeless Palestinian families who were bulldozed out of their homes and Palestinian farmers who were forced off their land but so too is the Israeli Army who committed these inhumanities to their fellow kind--without blinking an eye. Yes, the Defense Ministry is to blame for fueling up Israel's war machines to kill more disenfranchised Palestinians who oppose Israelis trampling on their land; blocking their way, killing and inprisoning their people at will--but so too are the people who advocate military action as a means of solving their human problems and who glorify Israel's militarism. Yes, the Rabbis failed in their efforts to raise Israel's moral obligation to its needy and those seeking refuge on its shore but so too did the Israelis who closed their doors and took care of their own. But the good news here is that while people are part of the problems there are also part of the solutions. And like democracy that doesn't come perfect (far from it), it becomes our individual and collective responsibility to repair it and restore it balance. Dutch

I applaud gideon levy for his honesty and courage even though I don?t believe that ALL settlers are as horrific and appalling as they are portrayed in his article. Some are opportunists that took advantage of a situation the state ? the right AND the left - created for them, with all the dire consequences we know about. Now they see another opportunity of raising the price we are willing to pay for their peaceful return. But anyway, what?s the whole excitement about? The state should pull back as decided and lend a generous hand to the ones who want to return back. As for the rest? Let them make their own arrangements with their neighbors who are going to be in charge soon! Let?s watch how they succeed? Why drag them back if they don?t want? But should they change their minds later on, they should not receive any more than any other israeli gets after an extended stay abroad. They are merely returning israelis then.

Danny, states in his post that Israel is a "state born in sin and existing in sin the sin of outright lies coverup and dishonesty" but he does not specify what outright lie and what dishonesty he is refering to. Could he be he is refering to the "lie" of the Holocaust and the "dishonesty" of numbering countless million murdered men women and children. Is the is the "lie" that you are alluding to Danny? I mean after all, this was how Israel was born. Oh, then again it could be the great "lie" that Israel perpetuates in its murderous behaviour towards the Palestinians. But what I really want to know is how Danny came to be the one and only sole possessor of the "truth". This man is so special that only he knows the "TRUTH". What evidence does Danny possess that we do not. I really want to know

How come the whole world (including USA) is aware of occupation, with all horrors it includes, and the israelis are not? That's quite hard to imagine! Just like Albania under Hoja's rule, thinking they were the most developped country in the world. That's the results of magic propaganda.. it eventually turned grey elephants into white cats. One can understand after this how hard it is for zionists to express auto-critic. Helas, I'm affraid more images of agressive settlers will be seen on TV in Israel, those we've been seeing for many years now. And maybe people will realize it's not a "bunch of gangsters", but the bitter fruits of an ideology that didn't work. Colonisation.

What's this mess?? Paul Harris, what's this message? trash coming from an agry man? Is it the way you talk daily in London? Are you a hooligan? Rosgarten & Franzen, I don't know where came your dispute from, but going on attacking eachother personally the way you do, there will be no credit for both of you here.. both your analysis and positions seem to be correct and you're calling eachother zionist propagandist? Come on Messieurs, go on and keep your credibility intact, not by falling into childish insults. Go on pleasing truth seekers by claiming it! Bye / Hejdå

if you start yesterday the israelis in gush katif are being robbed if you start in 1970 after israel decides not to annex then the arabs are being occupied and the settlers unjust if you start with the suez canal in 1967 then israel is being defensive and "lucky" and the settlements justice of war, the arab aggressors to blame if you start in 1947 the arabs are being robbed by the UN out of sympathy over the holocaust if you start in the 1600s the islam marauders are robbers if you start with the crusades.... if you start in biblical times ..... nobody really gets to decide when we start. same with european history and american history. please respond if you have something constructive to add. I realize that each of the dates can be argued, whose the agressor in 1967 whose the agressor in 47 etc. but the general question still holds true isnt it just a question of where we start.)

Michael wrote: "What have you or your people done, so that you could not be ashamed of your people?" We have stayed alive, despite overwhelming efforts to obliterate us off the face of earth. And of that we are certainly proud.

yes there will not be another oslo

"self-hating leftists?" no, right extremists haters, with a good reason!!!!

i am not a fan of any given politician but other than sharon and bb who else is there? maybe olmert (maybe) certainly the left is a dead duck for the foreseeable future and peres should be put out to grass with regards bm

A warning to all progressive readers on this board: Johannes Franzen is a zionist provocateur who tries to discredit the forces of Justice and Socialism by writing logically and morally untenable arguments purportedly in their name. As a minor side issue, he is also trying to discredit me. His personal web-site, where he questions the reality of the holocaust is just a cover-up to hide his true colors. I always suspected something wrong with him given his Jewish sounding name ("Frank" in Swedish).

HONESTY , HONESTY ,HONESTY KHALID YOU JEST!!! YOU WOULD NOT KNOW WHAT IT WAS IF IT JUMPED UP AND BIT YOU IN THE FACE !

Mr Harris, normally I do not correspond with Zionists, but this time I will reply to the questions you raised in #10: (1) Of course I do not do manual work. This would be below the dignity of an important intellectual and leading socialist. (2) I never write to (or read) the Daily Telegraph, as it is a reactionary newspaper. I read The Independent (Robert Fisk is a bit too right-wing for me, but informative) and I read The Socialist Worker, and I contribute to their polemics. (3) Are you sure you have ever read any of my postings carefully? If you would, you would be convinced by the power and conviction of my infallible logic.

ronnie, you are talking through the top of your head as usual. if any country is to survive it takes whatever steps are necessary to so do!

This is not just an eye opening article. As a conservative, this article would be considered guide line for a true and honest research. Some of the people who are criticising this article are racist, ignorants or self hated Jews. why do I say self hated Jews because you are leading your people with lies and one day its going to come back and haunt your children and grand children.

khalid , you still do not deal with your own hump, until you do you cannot look at anyone elses tell us again about immigration tell us again about muslim mistreatment of women tell us why there has been a military occupation for 85 years and if we add the turks it makes it 500 years israel merely took over from the british and the turks to deal with arab terrorism there is piece that will interest you from the jerusalem post 3/7/1940 " the mandatory authorities had finally agreed to the british army requests - a proper recruiting office was established and a massive jewish voluntary enlistment was encouraged. JEWS[NOTE NOT ARABS]were asked to join the ground crews of the raf and other british army corps to serve as "PALESTINIANS" [NOTE IT KHALID]end THE BRITISH ARMY HUNG MANY ARAB TERRORISTS AND SHELLED THEIR VILLAGES during the mandate

Gaza, Israel, Judea, Samaria, Palestine. Settlers, citizens, dispossessors, segregators, partitioners, UN Resolution this, UN resolution that. Those of you who try to rationalize any of this are barking up the wrong tree. Levy ends with this paragraph: "This dubious enterprise was kept in a fog over the years, and in this fog it sprouted and grew to its current dimensions. Now, when its true nature is beginning to be exposed, a reckoning should be made not only with those responsible for its monstrous growth, but also with those who failed to expose the full truth about it during all these years." It's the whole package that stinks, not just part of it.

Is so refreshing and hope bringing to find Israelis like Gideon.

i don't understand whilst 'defending' our tactics and strategy, we 'attack' those of the others.....was it all about timing; the attempt at greater israel was made too late - after the un and cnn came onto the scene, nothing could be hidden....and israel became occupiers which totally occupied our souls....we defended our role of occupiers by saying that we were 'good' occupiers (each to their own response to that); the response of palestinian terrorists unforgiveable in my code of conduct, but their way....enough already...who is right, who is wrong....those that believe should believe in the deity within and to learn to grasp the concept that there are many ways to be a jew...

bb will without doubt be the next pm of israel G-d Help Israel of he is.

No turning the other cheek for Sharon my friend. Sharon we obliterate those that dont respect this peace move. This is the beginning of accountability. The left cannot bring home peace.The right doesnt want a universal peace.Sharon is in the right place,right now and the Palestinians better be ready.

If more journalists would see situation and describe it ?objectively? as Giedon Levy, the media would have played better role to inform the public opinion, which would have been more supportive of disengagement plan without precedent. Levy sees thing far ahead from his colleagues and he is not worried about speaking out about it. Wish more journalists were couraged by him.

YIT: that the majority of the JEWISH PEOPLE are with US not them?? The majority of Jewish people are with the most important Jew,Ariel Sharon. YIT:The left needs to do some soul searching not the religious right, because for years they have presented the false picture through complete control over the media as well as control of the Histadrut and many other public organizations and the overrepresentation of Kibbutznikim in the IDF and Government that they speak for the average Israeli. Sharon is the face of the new anti extremists,the strong centre that is backed by America,so the old Left/Right is not a factor YIT:It wasn`t true then and it certainly isn`t true now when the religious and Sefardi populations have finally made their voices heard against the secular leftist elite which has plagued Israel since the 19th Century. Plagued? Religious extremism has plagued the world since it began. It has caused more deaths than anything else. YIT: Suddenly their world comes crashing down on them as they see the "country painted orange" and people coming from all walks of life to protest the disgraceful expulsion plan, people who they always assumed were "with them". Who is coming? More insurgents thats who. YIT: Most Jews in Israel have some connection to Jewish Tradition, they certainly want to maintain a JEWISH State and are for maintaining the Jewish character of the state. They do not subscribe to the false western ideal of a "new middle east" or a "Bi-national state of all its citizens" They have Jewish values and Jewish hearts and this time they have been driven too far and the obvious backlash is very troubling to the leftists who are about to lose their monopoly over Israeli morality. Pouring oil and nails is moral? Killing an Israeli Prime Minister is moral? You are demonizing the left but Sharon is not left.Hee is your biggest problem a STRONG CENTRE and I and most others are with him.He is the Prime Minister of the Democracy of Israel and he will prevail. YIT:So to most normal Israelis see the settlers today in the same light as they did the pioneers of old who drained the swamps and made the desert bloom. These brave people live on the front lines so that Tel Aviv and Rananna are safe (relatively speaking) They support their brothers who are living the Zionist dream and they don`t want to see them forcefully dragged from their homes and savagely beaten like criminals. YIT: That part is over Gaza is gone. It is only the false promise of peace and security that lure anyone with half a brain to support this monstrous plan. Wake up self hating leftists, your world is about to collapse!!! The left are dreamers? Well then they are not the only ones. Keep dreaming.

I hope next time Israel wont bring settlers with them.

what ever you may feel about bb he is not a coward and what ever you may think of him as a politican he is no better or worse than the next politician who is waiting for the king or leader to trip there is no doubt that sharon will not lead another govt and there is no doubt bb will check out the military credentials of bb and before you talk of cowards think again. bb will without doubt be the next pm of israel bm

-"It doesnt matter what the injustices they feel have happened to them,to get respect you have to give respect"- The occupied should never respect occupation or the occupiers. NEVER. It goes against the most fundamental order of life and freedom.

What have you or your people done, so that you could not be ashamed of your people? Maybe you should not be too eager to point out things about others, when your own society is somewhere between unlawful chaos and terrorizing dictatorship...