There will be no peace with the Palestinians

(1) The Palestinians will trade "right of return" for the evacuated settlements. (2) It is not necessary for the Palestinians to recognize Israel as "the Jewish national state". (3) Why should the Palestinians turn their backs on hamas? israel did not turn their backs on Lehi and the Irgun. They were incorporated into the IDF. Both these Jewish terror groups were far bloodier than hamas. Israel is losing the war of international support. In fact, israel has no international support. Today, Israel exists primarily on America's influence with the world. This is diminishing on a regular basis. If Israel wants to change this sorry state of affairs, they will have to change their behavior. There is no other solution.

What fantasy world is the writer living in? Cast Lead was condemned by the entire world, and remains one of the two key incidents fueling the current current move Israel's delegitimization. The fact that she was defending herself from rocket attacks is universally ignored, while cries of "war crimes" come from every quarter. And that's not even taking into account the peace negotiations that were underway, terminated when it began. As public relations go, Cast Lead was one of Israel's greatest failures.

As long as the world needs oil, the Arabs can count on the knee-jerk support of the rest of the world. Humoring Arabs is a rather cheap price to pay for keeping the economies going.

best wishes

ari shavit: excuse me where are you living: Israel living quiet peace and prosperity and gathering strength? the world supporting the attacks on Lebanon and Gaza? Barak and Olmert (one an alleged liar and the other an alleged crook?) doing their stuff for Israel. ?????? Or are you joking?

What exactly are you doing right now to make Israel the head and not the tail of all that is going on around you? It appears that there is no plan. It looks like the leaders there are as clueless as everyone else is at this point. What you should be doing right now is working to avoid all that revolution ending up on Israel's doorstep. I wouldn't be doing anything to draw attention right now. You need to have the Western World including the Russians all on your side. Not be cut off in case of another Nasser. But no shenanigans!

If it were democratic--all peoples in pre-67 Israel and all people in the West Bank and Gaza would vote in a single vote on what to do with the West Bank, Gaza and East Jeruselem. It would be close but would be democratic. Right now--half of the population votes and its vote decides the outcome for the rest. Its perverted "democracy".

Did this guy actually look at the other side of the story. #1 it is the Palestinians inalienable right to have the right of return. If any Jew can make Aliyah so can Palestinians #2 Palestinians will and for the most part have recognized the state of Israel. they refuse to recognize it as a Jewish state. Majority of Palestinians want a one state solution, not a two state. They want one nation that is secular that has both Israelis and Palestinians. A nation that stands for all Abrahamic faiths. #3 Hamas is a democratically elect party now. The only reason why they are so popular is that the Fatah did a great job disenfranchising all Palestinians. Not to mention their corruption, also many of their actions over the years has ended up in Palestinian civilians suffering. It is absolute suicide for the peace process not to include Hamas. Many Palestinians will have no representation at all if they are not brought to the negotiation table. Maybe there would actually be some understanding between Hamas and the Israeli government.

Israel does want a peace process and Ari explains why. You go through the motions; make an offer to the Palestinians which you know is unacceptable; blame them for rejecting the pathetic offer: hey presto you have a united Israel and timid world community who accept the latest land grab and violent destruction of an emerging Palestinian state. This is the essential difference between Likud and others such as Labour/Kadima: neither want real peace, just process, but the former aren't as clever tactically in forestalling it.

Israel has to be prepared for peace in the unlikely event the Arabs finally realize the status quo is not in their best interest. Perhaps in future generations.

Imagine the Palestinians were the Jews. Imagine they did not have divine ownership, as they claim today, for the land. But even then, will they give up 48? The Palestinians did. Will they give up the right of return. No way in hell. Will they give up Jerusalem? Never. Will they accept the settlements? Never. And you will never hear the end of their cries. The Palestinians gave concessions, way more than anything the Israelis can call a concession. Building illegal settlements and then claiming concessions when giving them up, is like a criminal who wants to keep the loot after the court hearing found him guilty.. It is not legitimacy that will not enable a Palestinian leader to give up 48. It is that if Palestinian politicians give up more, they will cease to have legitimacy if they give up anymore. We will never have peace because the child on the playground likes the bullying, and the teacher on duty is his dad!

...peace with the israelis, and with the syrians and the yemenites. But not with Finland. No way.

Israel's uncompromising greed will destroy it. Failure to deal with the realities of today sustains a paralysis that finds comfort in further settlement growth. A wall of religious ferver cannot neutralize the truth of Israel's history.

Will that be a constant state of war with the'imposed' paletinian nation settled side by side with the nation of Israel? From the viewpoint of an outsider looking in, that is not all bad. There will almost certainly be a massive attack by the Arab Palestinians at some point. That will be opportunity with its naem writ large upon its face, as the saying goes. Israel would be extraordinalrily foolish not to launch an all out war on such aggressors for the prupose of driving them out of the neighboring lands which, of course, belong to Israel by gift from God Almighty anyway. Acquisition of land by conquest is an age-old method ot enlarging ones territory. In the case of Israel versus the Arabs, it is simply the reuniting of Israel after the diaspora. Proof positive that the muslim method of spreading islam by force and conquest is nothing more that the 'crusade of the muslims'.

67 lines+swaps, split jerusalem, symbolic ROR and compensation, normalisation with all arab countries, recognition of ISRAEL and PALESTINE at end of negotiations. No jewish or arab states, just israel and palestine... easy

The population of Palestinians will triple in a generation far surpassing the Jewish population from Jordan to the sea. No peace with the Palestinians means that this situation cannot last - occupying another people for over a 100 years, as this article infers - is unsustainable. The world is moving far too fast and changing rapidly- this situation is stuck in 1948 - post -ww2 - and as even demographics change in the US and Europe - this will become a ticking time bomb - against the idea of Israel - a failed experiment.

Ehud Barak, Olmert and to some extent Livni, bought, or are buying, short term relief at the expense of Israel's long term interests. For this, Jewish history will judge them harshly. What the three clowns have done is to weaken what should be an approach that says, this is our land and we are willing to share. Instead they have cast doubt on many historical issues. When and how history starts? Did we or did we not? In order to bring the Palestinians to the realization that Jews firmly believe in Jewish history and heritage, there can be no doubt. We can be willing to share but doubt, absolutely no. Doubt is weakness and the Arabs deal harshly with it.

Sounds like propaganda.... blatantly obvious propaganda at that.

Recognize Israel. Recognize Israel's right to exist. Now, they have to say that Israel is a "Jewish state." After that, who knows? That Orthodox Judaism is the one true religion in the "Jewish State"?

that will give enough leverage to balance the dominance of the negotiating table. only with a balanced deal will peace occur.

It is true that most western governments gave verbal support to Israel during Cast Lead along the lines that Israel had the right to self defence against Hamas rocket attacks. But the brutality of Cast Lead, the loss of innocent life and the wanton destruction of infrasture shocked and disgusted most people. We do not forget that Israel chose to end the truce with Hamas by engaging in targeted assassinations around Nov 4 (US preoccupied with Presidential elections) and commenced Cast Lead during the lame duck period of Bush's Presidency. As I recall, shooting finished just prior to Obama's inaugration to prevent him embarassment. Israel's international standing plummeted due to Cast Lead and it has never recovered. The great irony is that the Palestinians are no longer indulging your wish for pretend peace negotiations and, at the same time are adopting non-violent resistence to your occupation. Israel has no answer to this. You now suggest that a bit of a pretend peace process, for the purposes of impressing the world that we are the good guys, followed up by a bit of a war against an essentially defenceless people, will unite us Israelis no end. This may have worked a treat in the past but no longer - the only way to ensure the continued existance of Israel is to actively work towards a just settlement with the Palestinians. This includes preparing Israeli Jews for the acceptance that there will be no Greater Israel and Jerusalem will be the shared capital of two states. But another Israeli round of violence similar to Cast Lead will result international disgust (yes - after Congress's response to Netanyahu's speech, maybe the US political leaders will still give support to Israel) but the public statements of of EU and other world leaders will be much closer to the opinion of their people. But hey, what does this matter if another massacre of defenceless people gives you that cozy glow of inner peace, Israeli Jews all united in one big group hug.

Excellent article. It's unfortunate that the Clinton plan and the Geneva 2003 accord are off the table. These plans would have provided both sides with dignity and security. Yet we know that the Palestinians rejected this and Netanyahu rejects it also. The reality is that Israelis will continue to live in what amounts to gated communities while Palestinians live on lands akin to Indian reservations in the United States. I'm certain that the United States will continue to support Israel. We've been doing that since 1948!

his move at camp david makes him the best politician for the last two decades. israel will not function without unity.barak showed israel that the palestinians will never accept a jewish presence and so united israel and israel has remained united.

Not this year, next year or in the foreseeable future. They will not accept the right of return for Palestinians. They will not accept the Palestinians' right to freely elect their representatives, including Hamas (yet they keep for themselves the right to elect Shas and Yisrael Beituna). They insist on defining their state as "jewish", thereby relegating non-jewish citizens to 2nd and 3rd class status. How can anyone make peace with such a people???

Israel needs a deal ASAP

One state or two states. If Israel is to be part of the middle east then eventually its population will be dissolved into the middle east. It is impossible on the long run to be unlike your neighbors. my suggestion is that israel goes with the flow and not swim against the current!!!

Writing from the Galuth, I can assure Mr Shavit that Israel was never as vilified as during the Second Intifada, in spite of all goodwill gestures and concessions made at Camp David (2000). Apparently, the antishemim are very excitable about Israel alleged misdeeds but have short memory for anything good Israel might have done. About Cast Lead, one word is sufficient: Goldstone. Enough said.

In the next few, very few years, the USA will no longer be able to afford the billions of dollars in aid it sends Israel. The USA has lost credibility around the world, specifically in the Arab world and is slowly but surly losing its once powerful hold on the Arab world completely. The changes that are now going on in the Middle East will bring to power governments that no longer will serve American and Israeli interests, but will serve the interests of their own people and the Arab world as a whole. The day is coming and coming soon, when Israel will no longer be able to continue to be the bully in the Middle East regardless of USA support or not and will have no choice but to make a fair and just peace if it wants to survive in this region. It may get to a point where Israel will beg the Palestinian people to make peace, but then it may be too late. Israel's leaders must make all efforts to resolve the problems now before they bring a disaster on our country and the rest of the Middle East.

Honestly, the damb-assed comments on here about Israel 'going it alone' or 'not needing outside support' are just daft. Where does Israel sell its goods? where does it get its military aid from? Where does Israel gets its energy and raw materials from? I'ts high time that Israel realised how precarious it's position is. To the author - peace with the outside world depends upon peace with the Palestinians. That is because the propaganda that says the there cannot be peace with the Palestinians is identifiably just that - propaganda and not truth. If this is a left wing article then Israel is further back in social and political development that even I thought.

Israel's Left Wing will not be satisfied until Israel is destroyed. Then they will say, "See, we told you so."

As far as Jews are concerned most are still at step one. They don't believe Palestinians agree to a Jewish-majority state for the long term. So, they are reluctant and indifferent to making concessions. Without that there is no peace.It is not the Jewish mindset that Palestinians can have it all and then peace will be discussed. That's a false impression the far-left has instilled in Palestinians and failed to instill in Jews.

not in a single instance since all this fiasco of peace talks began since 2000, the palestinians and the arabs were only faced by snobbbism, racism and more setllment and land grabing, not to mention the slaughtering of thousands of palestinians, and here we have you now demanding yet another nonsensical demand a "jewish state", yes you are righ in the coming years the Palestinians will not compromise on the right of return. They will not recognize the Jewish national state. They will not turn their back on Hamas. and wat becomes of the Arab Spring will be the honest will to oust you lot out of the occupied terretories

Then why is there no peace? Because the Palistinians always said NO. Why did they always say NO? Because it was never enough. They want it all! It's time Israel united behind Netanyahu, because he knows it will never be enough till Israel is pushed into the sea. It's time for Kadima and all the peace now crowd to take off their rose colored glasses and realizes they will soon be in the fight of their lives; and that untied you shall stand, divided you WILL fall.

www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/01/23/60minutes/ main4749723.shtml

No, the world did not stand united with Israel during Intifada 2 and operation Cast Lead, not at all.....even by then, it was pretty much up to the U.S. to protect Israel from serious International repercussions. But it's true, that no other governement has alienated the rest of the world as much as the current Israeli one. And it is also true, that the Arab Spring has very much strengthened the self-confidence and demands by the Palestinians, especially when it comes to the refugees in Syria, Lebanon etc..... So, I agree with Ari Shavit, there will be no peace deal between Israel and the Palestinians in the foreseeable future, and even by then, the two-state solution won't be possible anymore for demographic reasons. Which means, that the one state solution "Israpal" is pretty much a given, at least if Israel doesn't wanna go down the route of 80's South-Africa. So the Israeli people would be well advised, to mentally prepare themselves for that day X.....

No, there will be no peace on Israel’s conditions. And that what worries Ari and his likes. For the rest of the article, it is the same self-righteous affirmations, which no one, with rare exceptions here and there, believes. History, with a big H, is not written by amateurs like Ari. The bloody conflict between the Zionist project and the native Palestinians is not about little phrases about Barak’s ‘concessions’ or Olmert’s ‘offers’. These are lies and Ari knows it. The world is changing and Israel is not immune.

none whatever.they will not accept a non muslim nation in themiddle east.shavit should have written this years ago.it is themost important message to get across

Barak and Olmert just fooled the world, they didn't "prove" anything to the world. Israel is indeed a colonial regime that has imposed an apartheid-like system on its native population. Much like South Africa, Israel will lose the support of the world, and will be forced to end its supremacist regime and implant a democratic one for all its citizens. There will be peace, but not the want Israel wants.

Mr. Shavit understands what every kid here knows. The peace process was one big mistake leading us to nothing. The only solution is pushing Arabs to Jordan and the Jewish state from river to sea.

"The endless war that the settlers are trying to impose on us, which they need like fire needs oxygen, is endangering our future, and fanning the flames of a new wave of hatred against Jews in the Diaspora. In creating a colonial reality here, the settlers are impeding the normalization of Jewish life. No normal society can flourish in the oppressive conditions generated by the settlement enterprise. Ein Harod, Nahalal, the Jewish neighborhoods of Haifa and Jerusalem - these were the foundations of our national renaissance. Elon Moreh and Kiryat Arba [in the West Bank], Netzarim [in the Gaza Strip] are threatening to drown us." Prof. Zeev Sternhell, of the Hebrew U in Jerusalem, Haaretz 20 jun, 2003. *** "Our settlements prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state in the land of Israel. This is the goal, and this is the reality." Daniella Weiss, a major pro-settlement activist and former mayor of Kedumim (israeli settlement in the WB) to Bob Simon, in "Time running out for a Two-State Solution?" www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/01/23/60minutes/main4749723.shtml

Ari, if some one takes your whole home away from you and then, after a long struggle, he relents and says to you that one room is enough for you and your family, would you take it or continue to struggle for your full rights? Time is on the side of the Palestinians and they know it. They can wait. Israel is the one who cannot.

There will never be any peace with the arab/palestinans.Israel must be prepared for war NOW.. We do not need the worlds approval in any shape or form whether they like us or not.And yes our nation is united,which is the most important aspect for our survival.We will continue to flourish while the opposition i.e declines.The so-called Arab spring in will end in chaos turning into WINTER.,...............To Jacob once & for all...No such people called Arab/Palstiniansd ever existed. You should change the vocabulary from "P" hence to "B" Balestinians.NO P in the arabic alphabet..If proof needed. Wake up some of you who may think there will ever be any peace.. To the contrary..the ongoing fight will continue until the Balis, return to Jordan... That is the only solution we have been saying.Time the WORLD to accept ther concept instead of wishful thinking they will ever solve the problem by trying to push Israel into a corner. WE WILL NEVER SURRENDER To world opinion who's only aim in meddling will eventually cause them grief that may end in an unimaginable greater catastrophy than hitherto..

...that we all understand. the 67 borders with equal land swaps, Jerusalem etc. everything but that refugees can return to what would then be Israel. You would gain some international sympathy. And the Palestinians just may sign up. By the way, in no way did the world support Cast Lead. 99.5% of the world was horrified and disgusted by it. Even its timing was between US presidents so that even the US could pretend to be distracted and have no authority.

israel refuse 2state solution 1 state solution, arab peace initiative, israel refuse to let refugees back israel refuse to end annexation of Jerusalem israel refuse to recognize Palestine.

The solution of the conflict is really simple: follow international law. Israel does not want to accept this, because Israel is not ready to accept Palestinian rights

This man has no idea what it is to internalize nor does he have any anxiety over the lack of security for all, not just his group of well to do friends.

Nothing is preventing a final settlement between us and the Palestinians but the settlements. No one is seriously talking about "right of return." The Palestinians know this is not possible and have indicated as much. And they also know that Palestine must be a demilitarized state. and we know that Jerusalem can easily be divided or, if not divided, put under international control. And we know that the settlers do not protect us. They create danger for us, and in any case it is the soldiers from inside Israel who protect the wonderful settlers. So let's cut the crap.

This man has no idea what it is to internalize nor does he have any anxiety over the lack of security for all, not just his group of well to do friends.

Sadly it is untrue that "Barak and Olmert proved to the world Israel is not an occupying power". The Arab contention that Israel occupied the territories not out of defensive need but out of colonialist greed, started off after 1967 as laughable propaganda, but with every settlement built their claim was proved and proved again. The answer was obvious - remove the settlements but, until peace was made, not the military occupation - but Israel failed to act on it. This has convinced the world that Israel is indeed just a religio-colonialist land-grabber which deserves neither sympathy nor legitimacy. However, Shavit is also wrong about the prospects for peace. Remove the settlements and offer East Jerusalem even now, and peace is possible. Is Bibi intelligent enough to do it...?

Here's your Ghandi, MLK, Peaceful PA - http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=5093 Peace with the world ? The conflict with Israel will force the UN to take off its masks - and the world see. Israel gives the Jews not only the right breath, but even the right to speak. It's time stood up against this new wave of anti Jewish hatred. The Palestinians are nothing but and excuse, and everyone knows it.

......maybe you can't find any reasonable Palestinians who are willing agree to your demands because.... your demands are unreasonable. Shocking thought, isn't it? But consider this: maybe it also explains why the world is getting fed up with Israel i.e. the world **agrees** with the Palestinians that your demands are unreasonable.

Shavit argues that although peace is unattainable, Bibi should create the impression that he is willing to go for peace because that will allow "peace with ourselves." The Israeli people is sick of being lied to. That is why in the last election, the right-wing bloc won a big majority, especially among Jewish Israelis. Yes, there are leftists around, but their number has shrunk dramatically--look at how few votes went to Meretz. Shavit's argument is also factually wrong. Sharon had a huge majority for Operation Defensive Shield (Chomat Magen) even though at the time he had not come out with his Gaza withdrawal plan.

I sign it with both my hands.

It will not be any peace with the palestinians, but ity can be peace with the world. With a reshuffling of the coalition this can be done. Livini should be in, and Liberman should be out. This is what America and Europe want. A coaltion of the center could set the path for negotiations for several years. Nothing will come up fom that, but neither America nor Europe will be against Israel As a matter of fact and against the stupid Euroepan left, Israel bashers, most of Europe and America is in favor of Israel and against Palestinians. Europe and Obama are begging Natanyahu one single thing '"Help us to help you" Natanyahu is so nasty and so afraid of his coalition that hardly hears the "tamp" "tamp" of history .

Israel has a particularly uselss government currently with a PM and FM all the other world leaders hate, a discredited president who's switched sides too many times, and a further bunch of nonentities, fanatics and opportunists. But even if it had the most charismatic government ever, the world would still want genuine action on ending the occupation and freeing the Pals, not the usual timwasting Israeli BS.

So the Palestinians may be unifying, but only maybe. And they certainly have given strong hints that most of the refugees could be settled in Palestine. But Netanyahu presents a vision of Palestine that is not a state. And Likud won't buy even that. And who would either side trust as a mediator? Not the USA, not the EU. China? Japan? Burma?

Then read the Likud Charter to get you up to date on Israel,s intentions towards a Palestinian State. " * In 1938, Ben-Gurion made it clear of his support for the "Jewish state" on part of Palestine was only as a stepping ground for a complete conquest. He wrote: "[I am] satisfied with part of the country, but on the basis of the assumption that after we build up a strong force following the establishment of the state--we will abolish the partition of the country and we will expand to the whole Land of Israel." (Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 107 & One Palestine Complete, p. 403) * One day after the UN vote to partition Palestine, Menachem Begin, the commander of the Irgun gang and Israel's future Prime Minister between 1977-1983, proclaimed: "The Partition of Palestine is illegal. It will never be recognized .... Jerusalem was and will for ever be our capital. Eretz Israel will be restored to the people of Israel. All of it. And for Ever." (Iron Wall p. 25) * ""Shamir has said Israel must keep the territories in order to accommodate the immigrants. "A great aliyah [immigration]," he said, "requires a Greater Israel."(5) He has insisted that, although Soviet Jews are not being directed to the territories, any Jew has the right to live anywhere in the land of Israel, which for most Israelis includes the territories.

Thank goodness there is at least one lef-inclined journalist who has the integrity to state home truths, which have been apparent to the other side for many a long year. However, we all know to whom the talent of prophecy is attributed!

As a matter of fact, what he's done is to lay the groundwork for Israel's condemnation, its isolation, and a very distinct possibility of sanctions/boycotts! And that's WITHOUT any outbreal of violence...it'll only get worse from there. By the way, peace with the Palestinians will happen soon enough, even if it IS imposed, and even if it DOES take awhile for those sanctions/boycotts to help Israel to accept the new reality and start negotiating territorial exchanges.

Shavit lists lots of reasons why Palestinians wont make peace except one..Israel wont allow it

The coming war will be neither diplomatic nor military. It will be economic. It's consequences will be devastating and long-lasting. Israel's products will find no markets. Israel's planes and boats will find no harbor. The Zionist winters will be cold without sufficient gas and heating oil. Only in the Zionist spring will the right wing, nationalist hard-liners who lead Israel's government finally be thrown out. Like Gadhafi, they will resist violently, even though their own people have spoken.

Unfortunately there are very few that are standing supportive of Israel today and this tells us something. I think every excuse in the book (and probably literally so by the religious) is given not to do the utmost in achieving the type of dialogue required for peace. I don't necessarily agree that the Palestinians are firm on ROR because that implies two Palestinian states and Mr. Shavit doesn't know the Palestinians true positions - no one knows except perhaps for Saeb Erakat because he said the other day that a few days were needed to close the gap between both sides. So let's put it simply, it's those with the rhetoric of peace vs. the likes of Saeb Erakat of the PA.

For all the reasons Barack and Barak have stated, the demographic choice of democracy and a Jewish State within internationally recognized truly defendable borders, or an apartheid state of illegal occupation without world support, Israel must make peace as fast as possible. As the Palestine Papers revealed, the PA leadership is willing to compromise on return and borders and all the other issues. It is Israel who refuses to make the last small compromises that would make it real. Were a reasonable Geneva-like deal actually offered to the Palestinians, it would pass in an honest public referendum. Here an idea, dare to make a real offer and let them decide. Not street rhetoric, but a real deal and a real referendum. Let the world watch.

I believe is peace is attainable. Israel must make it clear what it expects for peace to occur and garnish support. What has eroded Israel's chances are the Yossi Beilins of Israel who keep promising more and more thus enticing Arab greed and leading us to more war and conflict. Ari forgets OSLO 2, Wye memorandum, and Hebron protocols which BIbi participated. These peaceful acts were met with violence by the Arab enemies of Israel. What will bring peace is a strong Israel who is united on the important issues.