There has never been an Israeli peace camp

offer nothing

israel and peace is like the Easter Bunny accusing Santa Claus of being a fraud. mark aleshnick Okinawa, Japan

I'd have to say that your article was one of the best I've read. It would never have been printed in the US out of fear of the Israeli Lobby and right wing Christian fundamentalists. While I agree that the problem and the solution stem from the creation of the state of Isreal in 1948, I believe that the only solution at the present time is for there to be a democratic secular state in ALL of Palestine.(which of course includes Israel) This task will have to be accomplished without the interfearence of the US. The US is and always has been the crutch that has held up the Israeli state. Zionism is both racist and undemocratic and will have to be destroyed before there can ever be real peace in the Middle East. Jews and Palestians can learn to live together and the sooner the better for all of us.

one day, one will tell the Palestinian leaders that they have tried V and it will be time for NV------------ simple, as aristotle said, tyranny can also change into tyranny... only NV can end tyranny and lead to peace.... explain this to ism, late rachel corie and to the brainy writers of haaretz

Oh wait, I forgot! You're from San Diego, aren't you?

Rabbis for human rights,Yesh Gvul,New profile,Ta'ayush,Bat Shalom,The alternative information center,ICAHD.? Now can we list the Palestinian groups who only want their own state.?

The idea of a single binational state to replace Israel is never going to happen. Israel will remain a JEWISH state as it was meant to be A binational state would never work & would probably lead to civil war & there is to much hatred and differences. If the palestiians do one day get a state whichever government is in power left or right will make sure that the deal includes the transfer of hundreds of thousands of arabs living in Israel to the arab entity and now they no longer in Israel they will loose their citizenship further reducing the arab population Zionism will continue to thrive & Israel will remain a jewish state no matter what the arabs want. Its also a fact no future arab state can ever be viable, 22% at best of mandate Palestine, growing population, no natural recources, water shortage, for years to come Israel will control its airspace & coast and many other things. It will rely on Israel to survive but its citizens will not be Israelis so no rights or vote in Israel

...you will stand out. I assure you. Some of you thought it all a big game.

one of those quetly hamming in the corner refrigerators of "freeze"...

Israelis have always embraced peace and longed for it. i believe land for peace is not in the future for Israel every time we have come close to a peace deal some tragic event occurs that scratches the whole peace deal. if you think about it, its simple G-D gave israel to the jews no matter how hard we try i dont think we can ever give away our land

"Levy is right. The "peace camp" is an illusion in Israel; mere lip service to "peace" - as he points out," How many Jews are left in gaza, fruitloop? Why did Arafat reject the Clinton parameters while Israel accepted them? What's the PLO doing in the West Bank?

"There`s only one major problem with your premise - everyone except zionists recognizes that it used to be Jewish land several thousand years ago, but times changed, they left, and others moved in." Times have changed again. Jews began purchasing property in the 19th century. Jordan and Egypt captured territories, kicked all the Jews out, and launched another war against Israel 19 years later. Ooops!

There's only one major problem with your premise - everyone except zionists recognizes that it used to be Jewish land several thousand years ago, but times changed, they left, and others moved in.

The name is not quite the same,but the content of his drivel hasn't changed.

The problems has been a miserable attitude, Violence more on the Palestinian and a little less on the Israeli side. Let us move forward. Palestinian leaders can learn non violence, and suddenly. nobody will be angry. Tehran can stay at home. Under ban from civilization.

...only wingnuts are not capable of understanding how right he is. Many like me tried for years and years to get the wingnuts to see how destructive they were and are, and they are still here. They win! They claimed to be friends of Israel but it turns out each and every wingnut were the ones that caused Israel's delegitimization just as surely as Israel's policy actions over the years have. It was the same with Olmert, he was on his way out before he really said what needed saying, and he was so lame a duck that in these very pages the very same wingnuts then and now still rail against any notion of a fair peace deal that he tried to forward. Levy is right. The "peace camp" is an illusion in Israel; mere lip service to "peace" - as he points out, everyone knows it's all about 1948 and making atonements for the original wrongs. Without addressing the root cause of the conflict, the Nakba and all that ensued, there's no way to have a full and fair deal.

Why doesn't Gideon Levy start a REAL peace movement?

Whine, whine, whine... That's all Levy does.

Gideon Levy is correct. There is no viable Isaeli political party for peace. The reason is that clear sighted Israelis understand that in Palestinian society there is no recognition of Israel as a Zionist country. Hamas is Hamas, and in the West Bank Abu Mazen is not in control. Whom to make a peace treaty with? And why does Gideon Levy think that Israel should stop being a Zionist country? Peace is not the objective. A Zionist country is. What are non-Zionists doing living in Israel? Jews and non-Jews here have no choice but to come to terms with that.

The real problem is that there is only an Israeli peace camp. The Arabs have never done anything for peace and never will. Not one concession, not one obligation, not one international law, not one legal claim to any of the land. Those are the facts. Levy is a total liar and a moron to think anybody with a positive IQ would fall for his lies.

is ready and willing to make peace , but not willing and ready to commit suicide . They leave this scenario for the Arabs . Prior 1967 after every conflict Israel was more then ready to give up , and they did give up , most of conquered territory for a piece of signed paper . The territories were returned but papers were never signed . Unlike previously , after 1967 Israel held on to territories to push Arabs toward peace-making . Then came Khartoum conference , and as they say , the rest is history . The rejection-ism of Arabs is the sole reason for the current situation . And it has nothing to do with Levys peace camp obsession .

will satisfy Levy'S idea of an ideal "peace camp". Israel has , at least had , more delusional peaceniks per capita then any other country in the world . Right now after fallout of Oslo they keep low , they realizing , but only partially , how ridiculous their ideology is . And Levy presents them as would be genuine peace-seekers instead of as genuine destroyers of Israel . A few Levys are still around , but their decline is inevitable . Naked emperor ...we all see , you are naked...

You are my favourite writer , and you dont belong in Israel . You are far better than Most of them . Bless you .

Lies lies lies. In 1976, before Neve Shalom was a gigantic Moshav, 200 Israeli Jews, Christians, Muslims, Americans, Europeans led by Benefsha Gest and Jonathan Pierce (of the original Neve shalom) held a 3 week Peace on the barren hill across from Latroun. Rabbis, Muslim sheiks and Father Bruno (the founder of Neve Shalom) attended. We prayed, ate, danced together and planted the seeds.

Gideon, I coulden,t agree more with you. God bless

and among them all there are so-called "leftists". you've just added substance to what i've said.

Gideon Levy has a selective memory. He forgets that one of the conditions on which the Palestinians never yielded is the return of refugees to Israël, which is tantamount to suicide for Israël. They never agreed that only a limited number be allowed to return.Israël offered it. Arafat also never agreed that the Palestinians cease hostilities always claiming the right of armed resistance, even after Oslo, which meabt suicide bombings

It takes two to tango, Gideon.

Islam wants palestine returned with the jews in canada the usa and europe. A harsh retributive dhimmi will be imposed on the few token jews that remain. Holocaust minimilization will be in the text books and jewish contributions to society satanized.The worst will be emphasized and the best belittled.

I say somewhat because, most of his commentary is correct about the mood within Israel and abroad marginalizing the voices of the peace camp, however to state that Zionism is nationalistic and doesn't attribute to the Jewish state anymore is incorrect. To me the interpretation of Zionism, a movement which began in the 19th century, is simply that the Jewish people should have an existing Jewish homeland/state and given the right to return as a safe haven should one want to immigrate. It's not necessarily a religious conviction, but with Israel and the Jewish people, the nationalism and the religious overlap, so one can't really disregard the other. The major difference between those who espouse to the ideals of the "peace camp" versus those that don't, is based on trust. Besides the fact that most people are not politically inclined, the people categorized (and everyone loves to categorize someone) amongst the peace camp are generally defenders of society's downtrodden and ...

It took many bombs, rockets and murders of Jews for them to realize the Arabs never wanted to recognize Israel's right to exist. That's why the peace camp which existed, died.died.

Trust Gideon to ignore Yossi Beilin! Presumably because he was not a signatory. The offspring of pal refugees do not have a right of return under international law and once again he ignores the jews kicked out of arab states. Horrific acts of pal terrorism have not had an impact on the left?

"A left wing unwilling to dare to deal with 1948 is not a genuine left wing. " More to the point: An Israel unwilling to dare reckon with the Nakba -- to acknowledge it and accept responsibility for its role -- will remain an Israel mired in tragedy and war.

Sorry... I believe Gideon Levy has crossed-over to the Dark side. If the Israeli peace camp is non-existent or still-born... then what can we say of the state of Gaza's Peace camp. Why are Israeli town squares empty, except of course... on sunny days or during music festivals. But Gaza streets and plazas are a jam packed mob-scene... during martyrdom and victory celebrations. Surely, it's not ethical to stoop to the lowest common denominator. But maybe there's a reason why the Left is often called... the silent majority. To be honest, I am not sure if anyone or in any camp... can measure up to Gideon Levy's praiseworthy moral system.

Levy is correct. There never was an Israeli peace camp that was willing to commit national suicide just for Muslims to have another piece of the Middle East. Because this is what Levy is pushing for. Levy and the Muslim world are all about not telling the truth. It's not convenient for Levy because of his progressive agenda and it is not convenient for Muslims because Islam borrowed so much from Judaism which preceded it by a significant period of time. Levy's progressive agenda is equality amongst all of earth inhabitants at the expense of religious affiliation. Levy hates religion but Palestinians, for which he fights, do not. According to Levy, Jews must give in, must compromise. How can you do this with current Muslim demands and retain Jewish identity and heritage. Tell us Levy. How? Start telling the truth as it is only this way that will every move moderate Muslims to accept others. Or does the Koran forbid this in all cases?

Read Moshe Dayan and Sharon and other Israeli leaders they never want to live side by side with the pals the six day war and other Arab Jewish wars were probably part justified attacks

you talk nonsense. israel is politically and in all other respects complex. israel has communists, socialists, nationalists, relgious zionists, religious anti-zionists. people in the army have different views. israelis are difficult to pressure. those that change their opinions do so out of conviction. the left in israel has lost much of its members due to terror and arab rejectionism.

Out of the United States that went left, and seems that it will not last more than 4 years, also Europe is going to the right. Lets face it, in Europe there are sick of Muslims "justified" and "legitimate" democratic demands. Left wing people shift to Sarkuzy, Le Pen or Wilders in the Netherlands. Feminists voted to ban minarets in Switzerland and in the whole of Europe. Also io Israel the left, (the singer Noa is representative) will never support Hammas in Gaza and will never accept qassams fired over Ashkelon without answer, especially after jewish settlements were removed. Thanks God, that the left all over the planet, is still national, and understands the limits of "left wing" stupidity. The Israeli left still wants to end occupation and is ready to stand for palestinians human rights. However, the political debate is about 67 borders, never about refugees of 48, or the outcome of an extermination war imposed to the Jewish community by Arabs rejectors of partition.

"Such a proposal, even including the "far-reaching" proposals of Ehud Barak and Ehud Olmert, has never been made to them." Can anyone here please clarify this statement as I am not familiar with the facts. If you want an objective view of the facts, watch this debate with Shlomo Ben Ami: http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=h-FLIBkTg8g&feature=related

....that one could not expect from them to demonstrate in masses for peace, while bombs were going off every second day in their cafes, shopping centers etc. Fair enough, that was understandable. However, that's no longer the case today, there are no more suicide bombings in Israel, and even the Quassams have pretty much stopped coming into Sderot. But still we see no Israeli peace camp on the streets of Tel Aviv, Haifa or Jerusalem whats- oever. A few courageous Israeli citizens, yes, but that's about it. I'm afraid, the "Intifada-excuse" has gone once and for all, my dear Israeli friends, and if you don't want people abroad to see it as a cheap excuse, you better start showing some street-action, and if possible not only for the good music....

I see that all this singing in the streets, all this Shalom Ahshav is too little too late, perhaps you are right. But then nothing ever was demonstrated as peace camp on the Arab side. Singing in the streets only on ocasions on suiside bombing and 'Death to Israel Tomorrow' as against 'Death to Israel Ahshav' from Arab moderates. According to you all these peace talks are waist of time. I think I agree with you pertinent analyzes for once.

He is talking about what Barak claimed to have offered Arafat %90 of the west bank and that Olmert claim that he gave similar offer to Abbas. These offers were in fact just a propaganda offers in the media but in reality they were not offered the way they were represented in the media

people want peace leaders don't families want peace rothschilds don't societies want peace illuminati don't no one will ever achieve peace as long as the world is run by a bunch of warmongers.

It has to be right in the sense of correct and the wings be damned. Much of what you say is true, Gideon. Zionism is a suit that doesn't fit anymore. We outgrew it the day the state was declared. This is not 1948, this is not socialism, this is not the moral rectitude of then that has, over the years, at least in enlightened countries, changed shape countless times since. You can't have it both ways. If you want a secular, democratic country, you can't also insist on the biblical borders (which ones?) of the Land of Israel. If you want a religious country, fine. But then forget democracy and just remember your religious duties of pikuah nefesh, veahavta lereakha kamokha, commandments 6 and 10 and be genuinely Jewish. The mix of the two resembles neither and comes too close to fascism for comfort.

within a society of israel's nature. wherein, membership is relatively exclusive and acceptance by peers within it is a priveleged desire. within such a group, opinions that are contrary to those officially "expressed", whether dominant or not, tend to remain silent for fear of being ostracized and outcast. "membership" is not only a powerful motivator, but its a powerful restraint as well. and why must belief in justice, human rights, and equity always be labeled "leftist" and "left wing"; even by you gideon? why not humanist? or even believers in justice and human rights? because in any society, "the left" tends to denote a minority that is generally contrary to the political mainstream. and so it also stands to reason that in israel's exclusive society, labeling humanist values "leftist" effectively suppresses their expression by the majority who harbor them. gideon, you're a true "humanist", and i admire your courage for expressing your insightful and pragmatic views. however, i disagree with your use of "the left" as a catch-all term for those who believe in justice and human rights for the palestinians, because by doing so so, you may inadvertantly be helping to silence them. with my high regards.

Excellent article, Perhaps if the Israeli people ever want to rejoin the civilized world, then perhaps they shouldn't elect a government of fools masquerading as politicians, with a deluded agenda of a Greater Israel, but genuine politicians more interesteed in negotiating real peace with the Palestinians based on the Arab peace ininiative.

Excellent article, Perhaps if the Israeli people ever want to rejoin the civilized world, then perhaps they shouldn't elect a government of fools masquerading as politicians, with a deluded agenda of a Greater Israel, but genuine politicians more interesteed in negotiating real peace with the Palestinians based on the Arab peace ininiative.

will send our children abroad, to study and to stay, so they will live a life as normal as possible. Israel's loss.

If my guess is correct that the majority of these Talkbackers oppose a viable Palestinian state West of the Jordan, two questions arise: 1. It is a historical fact that military superiority is NOT a permanent state. If we agree with that, then how do we propose to ensure the continued existence of five or ten million Jews in this part of an overwhelmingly Muslim part of the world,-without an amiable modus vivendi with our Palestinian neighbours? 2. Bearing in mind the demographic reality, how do we ensure the survival of our Jewish AND Democratic state,- without a viable Palestinian state West of the Jordan?

There is a vibrant "Peace Camp" in Israel which is protecting its citizens from daydreamers on the far left like Gideon Levy. Occupation is brutal for both Palestinians and israelis but it is far better in every sense than being wiped off the map by the ememies Israel has today, March 6th, 2010 who swear daily to wipe Israel off the map. Over 100,000 rockets are aimed at Israel this very second ready to turn Gideon and all of us into mush....thank god the strong centre-right peaqce camp has the brains and motivation to know when our enemies are "pissiing in our ears and telling us its raining"!

and then you would have no problems.

Levy seems to agree with Meir Kahane Y"S about what "Jewish" means. If that's what Levy is all about, then it's no wonder his ideas don't have many adherents. And the supporters of Kach will point to Levy as evidence that Kahane was right, because Levy agrees that Israelis must choose between Israel being a Jewish state and a democratic one. Of course, it's all in how one defines "Jewish." But that definition seems to be one on which Levy and Kahane agree. How sad.

that the idf managed to use its state of the art military superiority to kill 1400+ palestinians(and more of its own than did hamas), while leveling much of gaza for no apparent reason and in the face of virtually NO resistence? wow! i can just imagine how really proud you would be if the the idf had actually fought a war!

The very doctrine of Zionism, and true left I.E Socialism are a contradiction in terms. Socialism is for Internationalism, Zionism is nationalistic. The two are completely incompatible. The reason the left did not demonstrate against the Gaza incursion is simply they are afraid, because the mood in Israeli is anti left,Hamas is a veil organization intent on killing Jews. So to protest against the war would be seen as unpatriotic. In the mood of the country at present democracy that is "I disagree with you, but defend your right to your views" has never been an Israeli trait. The world is changing Israel is going against the general global mood, and in the end this will hurt Mr. Israeli, then he will get up and demonstrate against the rightist in the country, and their insane stance visa peace.

There has never been a real peace camp in Israel because ... like US and Holland for example the local "natives" (Americans and Dutch), even those with empathy for the Arabs and Muslims, refuse to give up the ideology of Holland for the Dutch and USA for the Americans. Therefore they will never be able to forge a lasting peace with Al Qaeda and other Islamist groups who would be making a painful compromise to share or partition those Islamic lands with the infidels who adhere to this Dutch or US version of Zionism (ie Dutchism and Americanism). Get my gist Gideon - your article is nonsense.

What once was considered the political left in lsrael is now considered the political right. Ben Gurion's views of settlements and jewish rights in Eretz Yisrael were not essentially different from those of Likud. Mr. Levy's views of the political scene in lsrael might be correct and anyway he does have the right to his opinions.The perennial fault of his presentations is his lack of understanding of the arabs- their minds and souls.Mr. Levy thinks, it seems, that all people from all cultural backgrounds feel , think , relate and respond the same way .

"The Israeli peace camp...was never born in the first place" Wow, what a PROFOUND "revelation". Then again, WHO is gideon levy? Anyway, gideon SEES his wet DREAM - the Obama govt meting out TOUGH LOVE towards Israel - WITHERING away. And as USUAL, gideon BLAMES Israelis, especially those who see THROUGH his FALLACIES. According to him, such people do NOT want peace. Cos they have NOT followed his REGULAR calls for KOWTOWING to the palis & arabs And for REJECTING his MYTHS, including that the BIRTH of Israel in 1948 is the ROOT of the pali problems (even though the 1964 PLO Charter CLEARLY states that WB and gaza are NOT pali territories). Well, I guess even gideon HAS to earn his KEEP.

It is mostly the rant of an extremist who is not quite 'of this world'. However, I take particular issue with the following. If people didn't take to the streets in large numbers during Israel's Operation Cast Lead in Gaza, then there isn't a genuine peace camp. It is a sign of the true maturity of the Israeli LEFT, (Not extreme left), that it did not demonstrate AGAINST Cast Lead. I suspect that 'The Left' was as I was. Supportive of Cast Lead. And proud of it too.

As true as this maybe,only a nation with a concience will be able to make changes. A peace camp will only ever be a place to enjoy arty farty conversations and trendy music played for people who want to be seen. Peace will only be achieved when we start to change our aggressive nature. Only you Gideon spoke of the tragedy taking place in Gaza. Only you Gideon cried out to stop the onslaught. Peace camps aren't born, they are surpposed to exist in all of us. Grow up Israel, time to have concience

great Article, Thank you. I agree. Start a revolution for peace. When Netanyahu was elected I wrote on Haaretz that the 3rd intifada will be an intifada for peace and will include Arabs and Jews, Israelis and Palestinians, all protesting for the freedom of the Palestinian people in the west bank and gaza. The 3rd intifada is born and it's name is Gideon Levy.

English invaded North America, killed most of the Indians. True. The Indians were really Russians that waded across the Bering Strait and conquered the American squirrels. French went out and almost did the Canadian beavers extinct. Spain did worse, stole all the Aztec and Inca gold, and gave syphilis in return. Rome went all the way to England and probably gave England its wunderlust. The list goes on and on. The whole history of man is about moving and digging in or moving and moving on. It's a given. Israel for some reason is the only example of a move that has to be accounted for, endlessly debated and condemned. Even if it was with the blessings of the world through the UN. And it has its resident apologist, here slowly twisting a corkscrew into his auditory canal in his campaign to convince any audience how sorry he is that his society is a success story. Go Figure.

People should realize that being not prepared for peace means 'no future'. It can't be that Israel needs an endless war-like situation in order to exist.

"Such a proposal, even including the "far-reaching" proposals of Ehud Barak and Ehud Olmert, has never been made to them." Can anyone here please clarify this statement as I am not familiar with the facts. If you can provide a brief outline of what Levy means that the "proposals" were lacking, I would appreciate it. No sarcasm here, I am genuinely trying to learn some facts, so I'd appreciate a clear, civil response. Thank you to anyone who answers.

... has an idiot. Israel is no exeption

Let's call a spade a spade. Palestinians who settled in the historical Jewish land made no consessions whatsoever. They knew very well it was not their land- even the Quran tells them that G-d gave this land to Jews. Their consessions is like consessions of the thiefs who agree to keep only a part of the stolen property.

Meretz is in the shape it is because whilst the left is alive and well in Israel look at Kadima. Being a left wing party doesn't mean you have to agree to every single demand the arabs make. The left are not in government right now the majority on the left do now want the far left just same as the majority on the right do not want the far right. There are extremes on both sides and they have always been a much smaller sect that the centre. Israelis have grown up since the days when the far left had any substantial support and today people want more than the peace process and other far left ideas. If you want a Meretz like state thats always going to be there then go find a dictatorship which will impose far left policies. If you want democracy accept that different people will want different things from their government at different times. Also don't forget there are two sides to this conflict and if arabs don't show enough support for peace the peace camp will loose their support.

Gideon, you are one of the few factors that keep some sort of peace camp alive. Unfortunately, and its very sad and disturbing to see that noone in Isral takes to the streets to demonstrate against the cruelty of the Gaza blockade and the attack that killed and wounded so many innocents. Noone in Israel demonstrates against the injustices of the occupation and the humiliation that these poor palestinians go through every day.Criticising your own country doesnt make you a traitor or anti semitic. I dont understand what kind of society the Israeli one is.Selfish and uncaring it seems.

Gideon Levy, ONCE AGAIN............ hits the nail right on the head. There never was and never will be an "israeli peace camp" as long as there is zionism. to achieve peace, "One Man, One Vote" between the river and the sea. A democratic Secular state for ALL inhabitants will not only gaurentee peace, but also economic prosperity. Of course it does mean the the Jews will have to give up thier preferential laws.