The remaining 99.5 percent

It seems to me, that the thousands of Palestinians that now live in refugee camps have generally been ignored in the media. Attacks and suicide bombings are horrific and will never accomplish the goals of terrorists, but government-sanctioned disregard for Palestinian lives and rights is just as cruel and ineffectual. By causing colatteral damage to palestinian civilians, denying them freedom of movement and effective autonomy, the cycle of atrocity continues. By callous military incursions in Gaza and the west bank, Iraeli governments only prove the terrorist's point. This is a conflict that cannot be won in a military sense

As accurate as your definition is, the fact remains that when a certain group of people is targeted because of their religion, skin color etc. (appropriately termed as political reasons by you), the effects that follow are anything but political. When the jewish people were targeted by one nation for political reasons, the effects and devastation the jews faced was very real leading to very real long term effects passed on to coming generations. When the black Americans were, and still are, singled out on the basis of the color of their skin, they as people have to live and suffer the REAL consequences. Eventually the root causes fade away as the hatred, violence and prejudice conveniently finds it's dominance. The so called civilized world seems to have perfected this "political reason" technique. Today we have terrorists, invaders, insurgents, victims, tyrants and the like and we have all learned to agree with some of them and hate the others. We, the people, with an insatible desire to judge, label humans according to their acts whereas the bastards responsible for starting these events sit in thier balconies, smoking cigars and carving new methods of destruction all in the name of "Political reasons".

Wish that more Israelis and more clueless American Jews had Amira Hass' courage, guts (or balls, as one of you readers - does he have any?) and sense of justice. It used to be a matter of reat pride to me that Jews - at least secular ones - were always in the forefront of fighting for social justice, for brotherhood, for a humanistic view of life, for the underdog, for the oppressed and the poor. This seems to have gotten all turned around. So many jews now no longer have the moral scruples to resist the basest instinct of their brothers and sisters and do not hesitate to tell those of us, who remember a better time, that we are anti-semites and that we should be thrown out of the jewish community. I have even been yold - more than once (I was born in Germany, but left "in time") that "Hitler should have put you in the oven too!" I am afraid for the soul of my people and I see their spirit destroyed by their refusal to grant the Palestinians the slightest bit of humanity. "They are all animals" is the cry of these fanatics. "cockroaches!" Isn't that what the Nazis said about us. May you live and be well, Amira Hass and write your powerful articles until 120. Silvia Tennenbaum

The only valid definition of the word JEW is that of a person claiming to follow jewish religious beliefs. This is the same for muslim, christian, atheist et al. If attempts are made to give any other meaning they are for political or financial reasons and so cannot be trusted.

You sit and criticize Israel's "abuse" towards Palestinians from a very remote place. I am curious, why do you take interest in this issue? Are you as concerned about other serious global problems in many different parts of the world? By the way I lived in Israel!! I'll never show sympathy for the PA as a group until idiots like Hamas are taken off the street!

It will be nice to hace free press in the Arab world, and liberal minded people and democratic institutios labor unions like Histadrut, newspapers like Haaretz, and civil rights advocates like Amira de Ramallah. Imagine liberal minded Arabs journalist writing in behalf in Jewish children and youths being blown off by suicide bombers et cetera. Also critizating their corrupt leaders and institutions, and questioning them why they did not accept an Arab state en 1936, 1947 and 2000. Why they went to war in 1948 and lost; why they went to war in 1967 and lost. Where are the millions that Arafat stole from his people; why they decided that terrorism was a good strategy...

Kameel good luck getting that point through to an Israeli...

So, will the 99.5 percent keep heads in the sand as Sharon & Government usurp yet more Palestinian land, cutting them off from important religious and family ties--not to mention jobs and commerce-- in the Arc from Bethelehem to East Jerusalem, and sowing yet More seeds of discord and disaster. There are none so blind as them who will not see. How quickly we forget the DECADES of IDF Occupation and Oppression that PRECEEDED those dastardly suicide bombs, and Sharon's poke-em-in-the-eye tactics that set off the Second Intifada and all the bloodshed and human waste that followed. Death Be Not Proud.

I think what Richard is talking about transcends the trivial reality of day to day life. His is the perception of depth and that of the core human nature; that might is right and not the other way around; that justice and fairplay are useful notions for political campaigns whereas in reality everyone loves a winner; that the competitive nature of mankind takes precendence over sense of responsibility. The amazement never ceases; how we can become champions of sensitivity and human rights when need be and, if necessary, we can wipe our conscience clean of deeds that would shame the lowest forms of life all in the name of our "competitive nature". After all we are the best....we are the civilized ones.

Thank You Ms. Hass for highlighting the racism and prejudice that is so evident in the Israeli occupation of Palestine. Why are some individuals of occupied Palestine able to drive on special roads and live in large houses and go to segregated schools and use 20 times more water than the indiginous peoples in a desert climate? Why aren't the Palstinians allowed to live in the colonial settlements? Is it because they are not Jewish? Are not all men created equal? Are the benefits of society determined by ones religion? How can this brutal occupation be justified? I am still searching for the answers to these questions. Thank You

By the way remember a that a Jewish foundation (FOUNDATION FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT) bought the green houses the irrigation system and packging equipment for more than 12 million dollares, and their handing this over to the Gazans for free. So lets get to work, there no more settlers to kill... and no more excuses. and blaming the ocupation which after is the result of your own intransigence. Concentrate on working and producing and don't try to leberate all Palaestina... The obstacule has been remove the Settlers were always working and producing and protecting themself from terrorists, The Ap received more money fron the E.U., and the U.S.A, than the Marhall Plan. The Jews are a excellent example of turning desert into green fields, don't kill just imitate them

My dear David, Occupation is the perpetrator of all that is evil in Israel/Palestine, end the occupation and all Israeli and Palestinian deaths. Shalom = end of occupation

First of all, thanks Amira, outstanding in both content and style. Carry on. As for Yonatan, I just want to bring to mind the fact that the Israeli occupation of 38 years is what caused the unemployment levels that exist in Gaza, so do not do us the dis-service of thinking we are stupid... Another thing, most of those working in the settlements have already been organized and hired by a Palestinian company which is going to manage the property and greenhouses which are to be handed over to the Palestinian Government. So, Yonatan please do not condescendingly worry about our unemployment. End the occupation, lift the closures, open up the West Bank and the Gaza Markets and remove barriers to trade and stop holding the Palesitnian economy hostage to Israel, and the problem of unemployment will go away "naturally".

What a great tool the internet is! I can actually read what Jews, some Palestinians, Brits, Canadians, Persians, et al have to say regarding this terrible example of people unable to coexist peacefully. Continue the dialogue everybody! We must understand that we aren't that different from each other. I don't believe God has chosen any of us over another, WE are all his children. Since when does my suffering make it okay to inflict suffering on others? It is our task to learn how to love and not to hate.

Jane in response to your note. Out of all the responses i've read here i think yours is the most sensible, i agree with you that forget about the past and look foward and bring all peoples to the table (Jews & Palestinians)that's the only way forward for peace for your children in the future of that region. I am praying for your land that a peaceable solution may be found. Peace will definately not be found in blaming each other or excusing each others misdeameanors.

Yes! If we take Ziad Abu Zayyad's word by word: then punishment agaisnt terrorist crimes is inevitable and fully justifiable, and not necesarily proportional asymetric. You see John they ask for it... long long time before Sharon was elected; they decided on this strategy with Ehud Barak who offered them so much, and got back suicide bombers... just listen to Ziad Abu, who is still alive and talking

A little history of the arab treatment at the begining of the state of Isreal is in order.In 1951 over 300000 arabs were forced out of Isreal by Zionist troops after the arabs contributed to buildup Ireali infrastructure.If it were not for these people the state of Isreal might not have survived. The thanks they got was total disenfrancchisement.It was no coincedence that most of the people call thmselves Palistinians are direct decendants of these people.

If the victims of the holocaust could react to anything, it would be the appalling acts of terrorism perpetrated on innocent Israelis and all other victims of terror worldwide. There is no greater indignity than being blown to bits by some lunatic who would rather spend his/her days in heaven with virgins (although I don't know how that works with the women??). This country was founded and fought for by survivors of the holocaust and, although there may be differing opinions and views on current events in the region, few will ever turn their back on Israel.

You have the beautiful voice of reason and I applaud you for your bravery in speaking out. Support your leadership in disarming and removing terrorism from within your people and we will all live more peacefully. Kolhakavod, Ishmael.

I am so relieved to read articles such as this one. It gives me hope me that the entire state of Israel and it's people have not collectively all lost their minds. How do you expect to have peace with a neighboor when you are inflicting so much indignity ,pain and suffering on them. Do you realize that the Israeli/US extremists look at Palestininans and Muslims with the same eyes the Nazis looked at Jews. The 6 million Jews that died in the Holacust must be turning in their graves and turning their backs to the state of Israel.

So, let me get this straight. A bunch of terrorists are sitting in a cafe, knowingly surrounded by innocent people, and probably planning their next murders or bragging about their last carnage. Israeli soldiers enter the scene and fire a warning shot asking the terrorists to give up. But do they? Do they care about THEIR OWN innocent people...NOPE! Let's have a full scale shoot out and kill as many people as we can. So, now if this happened anywhere else in the world with another army or police force taking action against terrorists, would there be an outcry like Dutch and company? I think not! IF THE PA TOOK CARE OF THEIR OWN BUSINESS, WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO. And, it looks like we're not the only ones asking this of them, check out the following: The president himself said bluntly that what "must happen now is the establishment of a working government in Gaza." Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said in an interview with The New York Times that "you cannot continue to let a terror organization go on sitting forever. There is a commitment in the road map to dismantle the terror infrastructure." And Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern Affairs David Welch told correspondents at a press briefing yesterday that reform in the Palestinian Authority is "essential." ..and those guys have a much bigger stick than us!

I don't like the name calling or catagorizing on either side of this argument. Your post is loaded with hate for no reason. You try to be clever using The Wizard of OZ connection to my name but that is well worn out here. It's name calling. You sound pretty young to me yourself. I do not know your years but it's your attitude. I have a lot more under my belt that you are able to judge from your perch. So I am back to the warning... be careful. Not for my sake, for the sake of your own cause. You discredit only yourself.

Your quote says innocents were killed but does not say who killed them and whether they were being used as shields for terrorists. I challenge you to find 10 instances where the IDF or even Jews in general have intentionally killed arab noncombatant innocent Palestinians.

Ben-Ami-- God forgive you for attempting to justify the COLD BLOODED murder of those young boys in Tul Karm by the IDF and Shin Bet assassins. You mean to tell me those soldiers couldn't apprehend a couple of kids without killing them in cold blood? You must think I am a bloody fool to accept that line of reasoning in this matter. Let me assure you I am fully aware of the murderous staging and strategies of the IDF/Shin Bet. Their excessive use of force and their appalling light finger on the trigger proceeds them. What a shameful lot! This criminal army has destroyed so many young lives-now their title is completely reversed to the most immoral army in the world. But that what happens when an army kills innocent people--especially children--it might as well be shooting itself in the foot as its reputation gets shot too. Dutch

Amira's article is sensitive and takes cognisance of the downtrodden. But its enough blame and shame - both sides have behaved stubbornly and murderously and to try and trace back to who threw the first stone is senseless and a waste of time. Israel, get out of the pre '67 territories (ok, you can make one or two justifiable land swaps in the process). Palestinians, chill out and stop blowing yourselves and the Israelis up. Two states for two peoples thats the only practical solution. Both parties also to stop their racism against the other.

Hello. It is sad to see that a large number of people are not willing to 'listen' to the other side and all they do instead is to claim that they are 'right all the way'. It is also sad to see again and again that nationalism and religion are messing up our world. Istanbulman2005

According to Haas' sick, perverted logic, Jews living in Netiv Ha'asarah over the border have no right living in nice homes while the poor Palestinians in Gaza live wretched lives (brought upon them by their leaders who refuse to help them).

"You were forced out of Egypt because of what the zionists were doing in Palestine. Don`t blame Arabs, Palestinians or Egyptians. Blame zionists." So, by your reasoning the United States was correct and justified in interning Japanese-Americans during World War II? Ah, the Europeans are so...enlightened.

"I join the Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qureia in condemning the Israeli Army`s brutal raid in Tul Karm, yesterday." Stop the presses! "The Israeli Army`s undercover agents entered a cafe and murdered five Palestinian in cold blood. Three of the victims were just youths between 14-17 years of age. How shockingly shameful!" Cold blood? How does firing at the agents in order to avoid arrest for terrorism in Israel count as cold blood?

As an Israeli and a jew i am ashamed of what the Israeli goverment and the state of Israel has done to the palestinian people. In the future generations will look at this black period with remorse and regret. The Palestinians are here to stay and deserve a homeland of their own with reconginsed borders. I understand the Palestinians hate and resentment however i also condome killing and maiming of innocent civilians on all sides. Violence is not the answer. We as Israelis should ask our selves how would we feel if we were born as a Palestinian under the brutal Israelei occupation? Would you be sending flowers to the occupiers. Lets just hope that now the settlers have been removed from occupied arab lands we can start building a framework for peace.

all is up to Arik Sharon.Doing the withdrawal in a relative easy way,he had shown that the settlers's histeria doesn't lead to a "national catastrophe" how they believed, hoping that large crowd of israelis will join to them menacing the stability of the country. But this illness-hysteria-although this time was treated with fermity could reappear in a harder form.If Sharon understood the danger of the settlers ,for the Palestinians and for the Israelis in the same measure,than he should act again and quiqly together with Palestinian Autority to dismantle the rest of settlement making sens thar Gaza had been just the first step of a complet process.

good insight ! for the past 60 years, history teaches us that the only future that a "colon" can expect is to leave or die and there will be, so it seems, no exception to this rule or lesson.

"and Israeli terrorists murdered five in Tulkarm, two of them children" All on their way to visit their sick grandmothers, undoubtedly. This is one of the problems with the anti-Israel crowd - they can't distinguish between people killed after attacking the IDF during an attempt to arrest them and terrorism.

You were forced out of Egypt because of what the zionists were doing in Palestine. Don't blame Arabs, Palestinians or Egyptians. Blame zionists.

Amira Haas, should we go down on our knees and thank the Palestinians, and Gazans in particular for all the havoc they started with their intifadas, their murders and proclamations of fight to death until Jerusalem, Haifa and Tel-Aviv will be "liberated" and all the so-called refuges returned to Israel? We are just as entitled to self defense as anybody else. If the Palestinian suffer (and they really suffer) they can thank themselves. If they would once honestly try to settle their grievances with Israel, not teach their children to murder Israelies, give up their sons to kill Israelis by killing themselves,I think there would be much more sympathy for their cause. Since they continue to proclaim that they will never stop giving up their futile hopes, they should also bear up to their own suffering. They go hand in hand. Thank you. J.N.

Not only is this article offensive but so is its publication in a leading Israeli newspaper. The settlers are not the cause of the suffering and deaths of 'Palestinians', nor are Israelis. The Arab occupants of the land that was formerly Palestine prior to 1948, and which is not within the State of Israel are, and have been since 1948, the victims of the obtuse policies of the political leaders of the surrounding Arab nations,as well as their own leaders, and themselves. The State of Israel and it's citzens have extended themselves time and time again endeavoring to negotiate a fair and just settlement that will see everyone living in peace and security, and have repeatedly made costly concessions to achieve that end only to be rebuffed repeatedly. The reason is clear.The Arabs did not accept the reality of the State of Israel in 1948, and many, if not most, still do not. They are the victims of themselves, not Israel or its citizens, and particularly not the heroic 'settlers' who have been endeavoring to fulfill their destiny pursuing the legitimate rights of the Jewish people to return to the land that was taken from them. Jews everywhere have been treated cruelly for 2 millenium,when they did not have a homeland, and have the right to live in safety and security in a viable State.

I wonder if amira is jewish let her live in gaza

I join the Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qureia in condemning the Israeli Army's brutal raid in Tul Karm, yesterday. The Israeli Army's undercover agents entered a cafe and murdered five Palestinian in cold blood. Three of the victims were just youths between 14-17 years of age. How shockingly shameful! There was no need for this murderous violence. Those youngsters should have been arrested not murdered. This is a dispicable act. I salute all those who refuse to serve in this brutal army. Their violence is so unnecessary. Israel is the no partners for peace TRYING TO DESTROY THE CALM and undermine the Palestinian leadership. The world should denounce and isolate them. Peace and Justice groups should use this brutal crime to step up their boycotts and divestments from Israel and demand donor groups withold monies to Israel. SHAME ON THEIR BRUTAL AND UNNECESSARY VIOLENCE. Dutch

Twisting of the facts as you have done is a major reason more people cannot sympathize with the Palestinian cause. You are shooting yourself in the foot.

From Ha'aretz: "...construction [in Area E-1, between Mt. Scopus and Ma'aleh Adumim] would disrupt Palestinian territorial contiguity between the northern and southern sections of the West Bank and surround East Jerusalem with Jewish neighborhoods, in a way that would prevent its development as the capital of a future Palestinian state." Let them build their capital in Ramallah or Gaza!

"You don`t know all that much about Zionism. Despite all the recent hooplah about Herzl, he died just in time to avoid being rejected by the World Zionist Congress." IN that case, I will refer you to Benny MOrris's reserach on what really took place during the founding of ISrael. "Benny Morris was the radical Israeli historian who forced his country to confront its role in the displacement of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians. Later he was jailed for refusing to do military service in the West Bank." Actually, Herzel was less vicious: he just wanted to starve the palestinains out. The jewish terrorists who came after, killed to to spread fear and panick. Have you heared of Benny's writings or should I send you to Amazon.com for a selction of his books.

Warren....Jews can be and often are as murderous.

"You have alot of nerve. You talk about discrimination ...a Jew can`t step foot in Saudi Arabia " Here we go again, the zionist who dropped out of school strikes back. lady, you have a problem with the Saudis, you go to Saudi Arabia and complaing. Unless if all arabs and blacks and asians look alike to you, that's a different problem and you need a specialist for that. I'll gladly speak on palestinain issues.

"Most Israelis agree to a Palestinian own state even Jew-free. Including Israely PM." I see. So when the whites of South Africa gave the blacks their own self-rule, the whites were making a big sacrifice by not living in those black areas, AND THAT SACRIFICE makes it morally possible to jabe White-only regions. I have to reflect on your thinking for a while Bruce. It does not sound right.

"There is no point in either side trying to hold the moral high ground, because the very nature of warfare itself tends to corrupt." Really? so everyone who was engaged in a war with nazi germany or imperial japan cannot hold the moral high ground? Give me a break and stop this nonesense. You would love for this to be the case wouldn't you. So all a strong country have to do is wage war on a weaker country and chuck up all the deaths to "the very nature of warfare itself" No way zionist. You had a paln to evict the non-jews (Herzel), you evicted most of them, placed the rest under a crushing and dehumanizing aparthied regime. YOU HAVE NO MORAL HIGHER GROUND NO MATTER WHAT THE PALESTINAINS DO.

Omid...why are you concealing your Zionist skin? What you call the "Islamofascist regime" in Iran doesn't seek to enslave Iranian Jews as your glorious fellow settlers in the West Bank seek to murder, expel or enslave non-Jews. You are a monumental hypocrisy. Or Maybe you want to go back to the era when the Jewish-controlled Savak murdered, tortured, and repressed the Iranian people for Israel's sake? Reza

i dont think anyone disagrees that life was unbearable for the Palestinians in Gaza. at the same time, how irresponsible is it to make the suffering of the people the issue here. Surely you appreciate that Israel wants to live in peace with its moslem neighbours.. The question is, why are they not being allowed to. The Palestinian nation (or those who claim to represent them) simply have to illustrate a willingness to live side by side with the Jews in Israel, without blowing up anyone they can get their hands on, and we all know, as illustrated by the disengagement, Israel will aggressively and generously persue peace and prosperity for everyone in the region. your article is naive, emotional, and focuses on issues that blur rather than clarify the problems we, and the Palestinians face. Both sides have suffered. irrefutably, undeniably, unnaceptably, unjustifiably. whatever. that is not the point, and you know that. come on, you can do better than this!!!!

Don't expect Haaretz reporting to be fair and balanced. Of the 3 major Israeli dailies, they are the least read and are known in Israel for their Ultra Leftist leanings. On par with an American equivalent, The Village Voice is probably what would come closest. The main difference being that their ownership of "The Marker", Israels number two business daily wisely stays away from politics. 2 Jews were stabbed last night in Jerusalems Old City. One died within an hour. I'm wondering if Ms. Hass will have any comments on the murder in her next posting.

Azzam, I fear you are so determined to fight you do no think first. Orquest made one of the major points of the entire Middle East struggle - that the only thing truly binding Arab countries together is a mutual hatred of Israel because Jews are non-Islamic "infidels." Perhaps you are disappointed that it does not go further, and that Palestinians have been otherwise systematically rejected by their surrounding brothers. Now, if you want to jump on the ethnicity bandwagon - though it had nothing to do with Orquest's statment - sorry but yes, you are all the same - modern Palestinians are a mix of Syrian, Jordanian, Egyptian, and Saudi immigrants, and not so unique or "idigenous" as you like to claim. And guess what - plenty of Israeli Jews share some of that ethnicity, too.

Its not an injustice to live on land promised to you by G-d while being attacked by a fictional race of 'people'.

I am writing to hopefully encourage a lot of you who, no doubt, care enough about this painful conflict to try to leave your comfortable, dark prison that you were taught to apreciate and spend some time in the ever challenging and bright light of truth that lies at the center of your being. Then you will surely see that the source of all our pain and confusion comes from being afraid, and there is always someone around us beating the drum of fear.Thus we built a world where hate is taught instead of love; where racisim is fed to children like milk in a bottle; where religion divides men from each other and condone violence. How else can we explain the divisions that seperate us at all levels. Our true reality is that we are all One. One Specie among thousands born and made of this beautiful earth. This simple truth is still a foreign concept to many of us. We are truly the lost sheep of this universe, locked in an illusionary and dark world built by fearful and paranoid men and are unable to break away and see the light. Genetically, as has been known to us for many years, Palestinians and Israelis were actually brothers in the recent past. One family. That sadly tell us that blood relations are no cure for our fears and have not stop us from being cruel to our own brother. So fear dosen't differentiate between people, no matter how close or far they are. Now, how do we learn to turn our fears into creative energies that will bring sophisticated solutions to our problems and concerns. If a minority of Israelis and Palestinians were able to shed their fears and suspisions and learn to love and respect one another, why can't the majority do it too? How can you and I help them to get there? Would we be able to help with our current belief system? Can we light someone's path if our own light is dim or has been extinguished? To answer this question, we would have to answer the first question, which is: Is my light shinning or is it dim and no one can see it? I hope your light is shinning and if dim do what it takes to make it shine brighter and brighter every day. When you make the world a better place for all, you make it better for the ones you love.

How can anyone blame those innocent Israeli's who first had to fight for their right to live in peace. In the 1960's when Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and the Arab nations were planing to attack Israel and drive all the inhabitants into the sea, Israel had but one choice, to fight to save their lives. They won and now they have been trying for years to make peace with us. First they make peace with egypt and give them lands, conquered trying to defend themselves, then they gave back lebanon, to make peace with them. We can not blame them for defending themselves. It is time to have peace and only peace can be brought by disarming Hammas and others, as Abbas said, there can only be one secruity forces in the PA. We all want peace, we must disarm hammas, islamic jihad and al aqusa brigades and this time do the right thing. I want to live in peace with my israeli brothers, i am tired of all this violence from hammas rockets and all this big talking with bias against isreal. I want peace. No more fighting.

Amy, where have you been? In LA this whole time? Well in the real Israel - the one with three dimensions - there are plenty of opinions and perspectives, and much compassion. What other country has offered to systematically air-lift Ethiopians out of their starvation, invite the non-Jewish poor of other countries to receive welfare benefits? I lived in your world for decades, and I can tell you that the way LA has treated its own disenfranchised would make any Israeli cry. Different circumstances, you say? Isn't that always the argument...

Last night I saw a program (kind of in the middle, don't know the name) on the History channel about Mohammed the prophet. It was really fascinating. He was way ahead of his time in the arena of human rights, womens rights, etc., and was incredibly enlightened. What the hell happened? I read the Torah and am amazed at the beauty of God and His instructions for the Hebrews to be a Light to the Nations. What the hell happened? In the Torah, ALL people are His. Really, its true!! No one is more special than the other, we all come short of glory, WE are ALL poor in spirit, we all can do more, be more. I've said it before, but love is the only key. The human family is totally screwed up, but we either work to keep peace within our gates, our we destroy each other.

Seeing what is still happening in the west bank and east Jerusalem, you are absolutely right. Sharon and Israel keep asking for it...

Israel and embarrassment to the Jews? As opposed to what? Most Arab nations to Muslims? I think the latter have plenty to be embarrassed about, and more so that Israel. For Jews to get special attention on this account shows at best a higher standard set for us, and at worst, hypocrisy in its worst form.

Chafeeca.. Israel is behaving like a pariah statge...it is not a light upon mankind

Jane. You're a breath of fresh air. Thank you for writing and taking the flak. Mary

i truely find it amazing when bleeding heart liberals always seem to find such compassion for israel's sworn enemies.they will never learn.

"A giant prison" is the latest cartoon.

Hi Ibrahim, First I would like to thank u for your reply a few days ago about saddam's "preemptive" war against Iran (even though preemption does not justify usage of WMD). Few things: 1) I am anti-arab and not against all Muslims...the reason I'm anti-arab is simply the behavior of arabs both against me personally in London and what they have done to Iran and the way they disrespect our Persian heritage, in addition to their hypocrisy (I'm not saying that there are no hypocritical Persians after all the Islamofascist regime in Iran is headed by Khamenei the biggest hypocrite in the world). 2) I did not attack Amira Haas in my message number 21; I simply said the arabs must follow suit, and I never said Palestinians did not suffer from this conflict since 1948. 3) Why do you shoulder the entire blame on Israel? It's hard to argue that case especially when Mohammed Dahlan owns a five-star resort in Gaza loaded with prostitutes and drug-dealers. The PA leaders are horrifically corrupt, and while Hamas and Jihad may not be as corrupt, there's no question that they are authoritarian and racist against seculars and non-Muslims (just like an Orthodox Jew might be against non-Jews). BOTTOM LINE, IBRAHIM: IT IS A TWO-WAY STREET, AND HAD HASS ACKNOWLEDGED THAT SHE WOULD'VE RECEIVED MY COMPLETE SUPPORT. Regards, Omid.

You don't know all that much about Zionism. Despite all the recent hooplah about Herzl, he died just in time to avoid being rejected by the World Zionist Congress. Landau, Herzl's close associate and co-believer, had to resign from the WZO shortly thereafter. Most of the leading Zionists of the past were very clear that the Jews should not displace the Arabs or limit their civil rights or their autonomy. Try reading Achad Ha'Am or A.D. Gordon. There are very many benefits that can be had if a Palestinian State and Israel were to work together. The only route to this future is through earnest negotiations toward a two-state peace with international enforcement of agreements reached.

One can see that just from reading the titles of the posts. Isn`t it about time Jews admit what a moral embarrassment Israel has become?" One more voice of disapproval at Israel's existense too bad that makes us even stronger to be here and not even be more flexible with the kinds like yourself supporting terror you should look at your state full of illegal aliens begging on the streets of LA in the Rich America you have beggars!!!!

Nina, get serious... stop living in a dream world...already Sharon accepted to disengage from Gaza and it already took place and you still consider there is no Palestinian people??? Right...and who did they leave Gaza to?? The Zimbabweans??? get serious.... Palestinians exist, they have always existed and they'll start prosper! With or without your help... ha!

I will dedicate this quotation to "Princes" Amira of Ramallah. ESCALATE TERROR INSIDE ISRAEL TO A POINT WHERE NO ISRAELI FEELS FREE O SAFE. MAKE THEM FEAR GOING TO MALLS OR COFEE SHOPS, TAKING BUSES OR TRYING TO LIVE A NORMAL LIFE. BRING WAR ONTO THE DOORSTEP OF ISRALI SOCIETY... MAKE THEM FEEL THAT THIS IS AN UNDESIRABLE PLACE TO LIVE..." ZIAD ABU ZAYYAD MAY 2001 (EXPLAINING THE STRATEGY TO A CANADIAN PARLAMENTARIAN

Let me post this info for the 100th time for those of you zionists who start having vision trouble when the facts don`t go your way: http://www.btselem.org/English/Firearms/ From the beginning of the intifada, on 29 September 2000, until 30 June 2005, 3,185 Palestinians have been killed in the Occupied Territories, among them 645 minors (under the age of 18). At least 1,722 of those killed were not participating in fighting at the time. Thousands more have been wounded."" too bad palestinians started the intifada, Barghouthi even admitted that Arik's walk had nothing to do with it the intifada was planned as yasser arafat could not get a response he was seeking re barak's from arab states. he needed their approval when none came, the mess started. Your kids were exposed to fire rather than being sheltered at home and to add more harm to kids they participated with adult approval throwing stones at IDF. Some demented here would really see that as a heroic act but btzelem never viewed this sort of thing as child abuse. When you are at war civilian casualties happen and it could have been avoided if you had the guts to stand up to your corrupt leaders and speak up, but you seem to wallow in enjoyment getting all the sympathies to further your cause but, people today arent as gullible as they were a year ago. so Righteous Palestinian Azzam, come up with a better excuse for y our victimhood

If the Palestinian Arabs would accept responsibility for their future and work for their own benefit instead of seeking to eliminate Israel, thy might be able to improve their lot. Why isn't there an "A.N.F." to work for their future to copy what the Jews did with their "J.N.F"? Where has all the money gone that was sent to the Palestinian Arabs? Why did Egypt who controled the Gaza strip from 1948-1967 keep the Palestinian Arabs in such horrible conditions? The Israelis ( who just a few years before had been PALESTINIAN JEWS) took in their fellow Jews who had to flee from Arab nations where many traced their ancestors back hundreds if not over a thousand years. Although many suffered discrimination they were eventually absorbed into mainstream Israel. Many civilian causualties suffered by the Arabs were as a result of combatants setting up "shop" in civilian areas. Beit Jala, a Christian Arab villiage was used as a staging area to fire into Gilo (where a high wall was built to prevent sniping into the apartments. You all should read U.N.242 and the newspaper articles printed at the time about it. It states that withdrawl FROM TERRITORIES captured in the 67 war hould be returned AFTER NEGOTIATION BETWEEN THE PARTIES. It says TERRITORIES not THE TERRITORIES, meaning Israel was neither expected or required to return to the pre67 borders. ENGLISH was the OFFICIAL language of the resolution. News reports at the time emphasized this point.

You have alot of nerve. You talk about discrimination ...a Jew can't step foot in Saudi Arabia (of course who would want to go there)and they are not welcome in the other 21 Arab countries. In case you don't remember Arabs have been attacking Jews since 1929 in what was then the made up name "Palestine".Do you remember Gaza before 1967 when Egypt controlled the area? The people lived under the strict control of the Egyptians and a curfew was in place..there own people treated them like animals. If the Palestinians who live in Israel don't like it they can move anywhere..no-one is holding them back but I don't see them leaving. When people find conditions unbearable they leave so I guess it's better in Israel than in an Arab country. The Palestinians are represented in the Government, they are free to practice whatever religion they choose,they go to school and then to university and I might add free to blow up and maim Jews at their leisure. As for the water I would hate to see what would happen to the Jews if the shoe was on the other foot.

It's so wonderful to know that some Israelis recognize the injustice that has been committed against the Palestinians. Amira gives me hope that the world isn't completely blind to the reality of circumstances surrounding the bitter conflict.

One can see that just from reading the titles of the posts. Isn't it about time Jews admit what a moral embarrassment Israel has become?

the truth is different to all people and enjoy jordan i know it very well - which district of amman are you living in? bm

3rd time when was the last time you visited ramallah or hevron or nablus or jenin or jerualem bm

dear franzi excellent news eh waht!

It is those who worship an exclusive monotheistic 'God' who do not accept other monotheistic 'Gods'. In the heydays of polytheism all gods tolerated each other, in fact they were the same gods but with different names in different cultures and countries and religion was never a cause for war. A plague on monotheism.

Almost each of the respondents has a piece of the truth. A completely correct summary is possible. As a result of the hostilities, which began at least as long ago as 1920, both Israelis and Palestinians have suffered death, disabling wounds, economic disaster and betrayal by their leaders. It is also true that neither side has much reason to trust each other. No unilateral action by either party will be trusted by the other. The only solution lies in earnest negotiations with international enforcement of agreements reached. Any leadership that resists negotiations is simply stalling so that they can inflict greater harm on their opponents.

Ms. Hass, you say it is the settlers' fault that palestinians have miserable lives. indeed, it is the fault of the palestinian extremists, had they not tried to infiltrate the settlements or shoot at settlers' cars driving from Kissufim to Neve Dekalim there would be no need to divide gaza in three. there would be no need to destroy homes to create lines of defense. the settlers only wanted to live in a land that belonged to no one (thats right, gush katif was just empty sand dunes forty years ago, b/c the Palestinian leadership wouldn't let refugees move out of their homes, contrary to the request of the israelis to give them better lives.) so the settlers just expressed their right to live on a land that they believe they have a right to. that didnt harm lives of gazans, the terrror that gazans brought did. if no terror came out of gaza, no army would be there, no house demolitions, and no casualities or deaths of palestinian gazans.

"nor would anybody desire to be a suicice bomber. We could just work at living.Imagine that." Chris Imagin that in Canada, the French Canadians will stop hating the Anglo Canadians... That in Lebanon, The Muslims will stop hating and killing the christians... That in Iraq The Sunis will stop hating everybody else...and so on. If you can imagin all of that, perhaps you can play God or better yet, go see a good Therapist...

Thank you for the kind words and taking my criticism (the other day) in good spirits and in the manner it was meant. On a more serious note, don't think for a second that Katyn did not cross my mind when I wrote my response, but I could imagine the chorus of criticism. The comparison is not valid and should not be made at all even if the concept was/is there. The havoc caused by the Israeli actions stand on their own merit and are critically serious and have ominous repercussions.

The wealthy jews were able to get out of egypt in '48 - they had money and foreign passports. those of us whose families lived there for centuries (the poor ones) had to rescued by israel or we would have been massacred to death. There were thousands of us and our lives, history, culture were destroyed - but we got on with our lives because the jews of the world choose to survive, to live. I've been back to egypt to visit and i have no ill feelings towards the people. I read the responses on this site and can't believe what people believe about israel and jews - that we hate non jews, that israel was "created" for eastern european jews etc... As a native arabic speaker i have met israeli arabs and palestinians who came here from egypt and yemen - they're not all native. And for those who feel we should create one big happy country - well, it would be nice but the people in my native egypt can't do it, Iraq and Lebanon are a mess and even the Czechs and the Slovaks (enlightened europeans) chose to divorce. Despite what you all think we here in israel are open tolerant and democratic - if we see it from the palestinians then we call all prosper and have open borders etc...don't think i'll see it in my lifetime.

Jees buddy, I worked hard on that last post. Why don't u put it up???

"Just make sure that before you call someone "anti-Israel" that they are really guilty of any some or or all of these transgressions as worded. I would be very careful." Gee Dorothy are you trying to warn me of something here for any particular reason? Pray tell what? I know that the so-called "transgressions" I listed in my 'Why people are anti-Israel' post are standard fare in anti-zionist arguments because I am exposed to those arguments in much of myI reading about the conflict. I accused no single person in my post because frankly I read their charges whenever I visit these boards and there are too many to name. If any of these so-called "transgressions" I listed strike you as unfounded you can post your reaction. Because you didn't and instead vaguely warn/threaten me to be careful, I get the sense that you're not very well read on the conflict. Nothing wrong with that if you're not, and there's much to learn for anyone pursuing such a study, but I get the sense from your posts that as far as reading respected and scholarly books about the conflict goes, you're just at the beginning stages. Am I wrong? Or are you actually frightened by something I wrote? Is Oz in jeopardy? Did I accidentally burn the strawman and cause the wicked witch of the west to want to avenge me for the crime? Let's all be "very careful", OK Dorothy? BTW, speaking of being very careful, do you still claim to love your country because of the charming demeanor of Americans like the anti-zionist, Tom Dilberger who every day comes to these boards to tell us that Israel will have to be obliterated for him to get any relief from the humidity in his hovel in Belmar, NJ? Is making nicey nice with Tom Dilberger your way of being very careful Dorothy?

Like, duh.

"The Jewish State of Israel welcomes non Jews and I never heard of any restrictions put on Non-Jewish population in Israel as long as I live." Chafeeka, You are aware that your government poisoned the crops of some Bedouin tribes in the Negev in order to get them to move? These people are Israeli citizens and look what your government did. This is kind of like what Saddam Hussein did to the marsh dwellers in Iraq. Please spare us all your righteous indignation.

bravo to Haaretz for employing and publishing Amira. it's too bad we as humans cannot leave behind our ancestor's needs for magical fluttering gods that in modern days give us reasons to kill and discriminate against each other. If we could make our gods irrelevent then we wouldn't need a Jewish state nor would anybody desire to be a suicice bomber. We could just work at living. Imagine that.

"The final word of the "worker" that Ms Haas quotes about how Gaza remains a prison nevertheless is telling. This "prison" will only be opened by eliminatinng the State of Israel." isn't it sad how zionists have put themselvs in a corner whereby they belive that to go down the path of liberty and equality and freedom for non-jews means the destruction of israel. My question to Tim, based on your remark, and to israelis: are you so bad that the only way you can come to terms with freedom and equality with those who are not like you is to either self-destruct internally or be destroyed? Are you saying that a fair and just israel is a non-existant israel? sort of like aparthied South Africa? or Nazi Germany or Imperial japan?

"If Israel were not in the Middle East but in a peaceful region all these questions would be very logical and human." So that's why there was Aparthied south africa , because they felt thretened? and that's why italy was facist, because there were threteaned? from what I know about you, zionism, and herzel I don't think you came to the mideast to spread peace and justice and stability, you came to replace non-jews with jews. That Zionism required, as its basis, the complete and total removal of the indigenous population was never in doubt among the principal leadership of the movement. As far back as 1895, Herzl himself posited the following position: "We must expropriate gently..We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our country."

the palestinians are not living in Gaza misery because of 8000 israeli settlers - they are there because of 5 million israelis. Their leaders can stick to their dreams of destroying the 5 million or get on with the business of building a viable peaceful state next to them - that would be a step beneficial to all and who knows what wonderful things can come from that. As for those who draw conclusions such as Tom (right to the point)you need a history lesson...and perhaps let us know who is to blame for the situation of the poor and wretched in whichever nameless locale you call home.

"It is very easy to do the things Israeli`s are FORCED to do in order to protect their citizens and to survive. In answer to your questions they had and have bombs coming through their roofs and into their markets and buses and cafes." Did you even try to read any of the posts before you added your 2 cents? Your killing and repression of non-jews gaza and west bank started long before there were any attacks on israel. Second, what's israel's security has to do with more-water-for-jews laws and jews-only towns? And what's israel security has to do with discrimination againt palestinains who live in israel?

"Pals and Syrians didn`t make such distinctions in 48, 67, and 73, when they attacked Israel." the same way the allies did not make a distinction when they had to defeat the enemy in WWII. But are you trying to create a world to suit your silly arguments? do black and asian people look all the same to you? Do all french-speaking peopel belong to the same ethnic group, as far as you are concerned?

Even King and Mandela recognized the limitations of non-violent protest. It took Black Americans 190 years after the founding of the U.S. before they got equal rights. Maybe the Palestinians don't want to wait 190 years. And I think that if they hadn?t resorted to violence, their cause would not even be on the geopolitical map. Even Ghandi admitted that nonviolent protest won't work in any society after living in South Africa. Here is what Mandela said in his defense at his 1964 terrorism trial in which he admitted that he was plotting to blow up passenger train: 'At the beginning of June 1961, after a long and anxious assessment of the South African situation, I, and some colleagues, came to the conclusion that as violence in this country was inevitable, it would be unrealistic and wrong for African leaders to continue preaching peace and non-violence at a time when the Government met our peaceful demands with force. This conclusion was not easily arrived at. It was only when all else had failed, when all channels of peaceful protest had been barred to us, that the decision was made to embark on violent forms of political struggle, and to form Umkhonto we Sizwe. We did so not because we desired such a course, but solely because the Government had left us with no other choice. In the Manifesto of Umkhonto published on 16 December 1961, which is Exhibit AD, we said: "The time comes in the life of any nation when there remain only two choices - submit or fight. That time has now come to South Africa. We shall not submit and we have no choice but to hit back by all means in our power in defence of our people, our future, and our freedom". This was our feeling in June of 1961 when we decided to press for a change in the policy of the National Liberation Movement. I can only say that I felt morally obliged to do what I did.' And here is what Martin Luther King had to say after the bombing of the Sixteenth Street Baptist Church: "Now the real problem that we face is this. The Negro community is about to reach a breaking point. There is a great deal of frustration and despair and confusion in the Negro community, and there is a feeling of being alone and not being protected. If you walk the street, you aren?t safe. If you stay at home, you aren?t safe: there is a danger of a bomb. If you?re in church now, it isn?t safe. So that the Negro feels that everywhere he goes, if he remains stationary, he?s in danger of some physical violence. Now this presents a real problem for those of us who find ourselves in leadership positions because we are preaching at every moment the philosophy and the method of nonviolence. And I think that I can say without fear of successful contradiction, that we have been consistent in standing up for nonviolence at every point and even with Sunday?s and Monday?s developments, we continue to be firm at this point. But more and more, we are facing a problem of our people saying ?What?s the use?? And we find it a little more difficult to get over nonviolence. And I am convinced that if something isn?t done to give the Negro a new sense of hope and a sense of protection, there is a danger that we will face and that will lead to the worst race rioting we?ve ever seen in this country. I think it?s just at that point."

measure the miles from algeria to pakistan and tell me who is goliath: the muslims or the jews? compare the 22 arab nations to the soon to be 9-mile wide jewish state and tell me who is the real 0.5% you're too busy drinking lattes and acting european to realize that it is ILLEGAL TO BE JEWISH in a certain part of the world, once again. mazel tov. the enemy is impressed.

As long as war continues there will inevitably be injustice. That is because the innocent are caught up with the guilty. This is true in all wars. The disease is war, injustice is the symptom. There is no point in either side trying to hold the moral high ground, because the very nature of warfare itself tends to corrupt. That is the nature of the beast. -Bloomfield-

"While Israelis deny their neighbor`s right to exist they claim they have every right to exist." - Most Israelis agree to a Palestinian own state even Jew-free. Including Israely PM. "While Israelis steal their neighbors land they claim they can do no wrong." - Most of Israelis don't deny wrongdoing. Most Arabs don't see any wrongdoing on their part including at least two Holocaust attempts and stealing of Jewish property and expelling Jews from Arab countries. "While Israelis watch their soldiers destroy their neighbors property they build up their own." - When Israelis watch their soldiers destroy their property they leave. When PA politicians watch that Israely soldiers destroy terrorist's property they do nothing to stop terror. "While Israelis claim they want peace they are ready for war and glorify in their might." - When a single Jewish terrorists got killed. Goverment levels his grave in order to prevent piligrimage to it. When multiple Arab terrorists kill Israely women and children and then got killed their pictures decorate city buildings. "While Israelis say they are victims of violence they are perpetrators of violence." - Not a chicken vs. egg situation. Arabs started it in 2000 and don't want to finish it at all. "While Israelis ought to respect and obey the laws --they dismiss and reject them." - Wich laws? Dutch laws or German Nurenberg laws or Saudy laws? You probably mean UN General Assembly recomendations but they are not laws. "While Israelis should be kind and caring neighbors they are unkind and uncaring neighbors..." - It is hard to be caring to those who want to destroy you and does not recognise your very right to live. Bruce

"I couldn`t agree more fully with you. There is no shared blame. Palestinians are terrorists and intentional ruthless killers of innocent murderers of women and children" Let me post this info for the 100th time for those of you zionists who start having vision trouble when the facts don't go your way: http://www.btselem.org/English/Firearms/ From the beginning of the intifada, on 29 September 2000, until 30 June 2005, 3,185 Palestinians have been killed in the Occupied Territories, among them 645 minors (under the age of 18). At least 1,722 of those killed were not participating in fighting at the time. Thousands more have been wounded.

"As controversial as her statements may be the fact that Amira Hass can publish an article like this is evidence of a democratic liberal Israel as opposed to the its medieval authocratic Arab neighbours." You put liberal democracies to shame. Sweden or Germany are liberal democracies. They are not in violation of any security council resolution, they don't kill civilians because they are not chrsitian, they don't have laws to bar non-chrstians from living in certain areas, and they don't deny peopel votig eights based on their religion. SO STOP COMPARING YOURSELF WITH LIBERAL DEMOCRACIESD. Second, why would the palestinains have dozens of reporters like Amira. we all condemn occupation, jewish supremacy, a[arthied, ...So what'd the big deal? Unless you mean Palestinains should have a reporter who supports jewish settlements, invasion and occupation, assisinations, ... Would be the equivelenat to Amira Hass?

Amira's problem is that she accepts fully the notion of Palestinian victimhood and will not hear of any possibility that the conflict is partially or wholly the result of generations of Arab hatred of first the Palestinian Jews and then after 1948 of the Israelis. She decontextualises the situation whereby the entire Israeli existence for five decades plus has been under threat of violence and annihilation (even if the threat has diminished over time). When you take her approach it's easy to play the blame game against people whose defence against constant threats, attacks and intimidation is falsely characterised as "oppression". She is the ultimate spinmeister for a cause that is anti peace and perpetuates occupation, hatred and war.

It is very easy to do the things Israeli's are FORCED to do in order to protect their citizens and to survive. In answer to your questions they had and have bombs coming through their roofs and into their markets and buses and cafes..have had their homes destroyed and their land stolen..they have been herded into camps..starved--gassed==burned and experimented upon==had their land and money stolen-been tortured and forced to convert to catholisism during the Spanish Inquisition and suffered through countless pograms and if the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem had had his way and Hitler would have prevailed their would have been gas chambers in Jerusalem. Jews who lived in Arab lands lost their property and money and were beaten and murdered...so don't cry to me about the poor Palestinians. They brought this situation on themselves by being so greedy when they thought they would get all of the Jews land after the 1948 war. Their so called Arab brothers let them live in cesspools for years and now you want people to feel sorry for them. Their leadership stinks, the people are steeped in hatred and they are mired in adoraton of Hamas and the rest of the masked fools. Wake up Faith and read some history books not the ones that the Arab world prints and by the way how come it doesn't bother you when these people mutilate and slice up young children as they have been known to do?

My 1st and more comprehensive response to Andy Murray's post didn't make it through the Haaretz screen (who knows why) but for now I only want to focus on one of Andy Murray's complaints. Namely, Andy Murray says that to both his amusement and sadness he finds zionists predictably hypocritical because in his words: "[Zionists] use the atrocities committed against First Nations in the past, as justification for silencing any North Americans who dare criticize their atrocities and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians." Notwithstanding that my post #217 (to which he was responding), never mentioned Palestinians, nor inferred in any way that I was attempting to make any linkage between them and aboriginals, Mr. Murray's charge that it is a zionist trope to make a linkage between aboriginals and Palestinians deserves a bit of an airing. What I mean by this is that both Palestinians and their camp of unflinching and uncritical activists abroad claim for themselves to be an indigenous people. But are all Palestinian Arabs an indigenous people? Truth is that a substantial porportion of today's Palestinian Arab population are descendents of immigrants who arrived in Palestine over the last 150 years, just like Jewish immigrants to Palestine, while the remainder likely had a longer established residence (again like the Jews). So if Palestinian Arabs are not exclusively an indigenous people why do they always tell us they are when decrying that the zionists are the sole cause of all their suffering? I'm wondering if the misuse of the term indigenous to refer only to Arabs but not to Jews in Palestine, has more to do with the useful purpose it serves in establishing a linkage with indigenous peoples of the Americas and elsewhere? Aboriginals in the Americas after all were the subjects of Christian colonial practices and are peoples for whom the Christian world today feels somewhat guilty for the actions of their Christian colonial ancestors. So when Mr. A. Murray from Toronto (who also made other shameful comments like trying to cover up Canada's ongoing dispossession of First Nation lands, or charging Israel with "ethnic cleansing" while keeping mute about the repeated Arab and Palestinian instigations to "ethnically cleanse" Jews, or claiming that anti-zionists have no venues to express themselves -- I got a chuckle out of that one), claims that zionists are the ones to make linkages between the Palestinians and the indigenous peoples of the world... ask yourself whether in fact it is the Solidarity with Palestinians camp that repeatedly tries to capitalize on such a linkage. Don't the Solidarity with Palestine activists resist the fact and extent of Arab immigration into Palestine from abroad over the last 100 to 200 years? Don't they disingenuously claim that all of their people are indigenous to Palestine? Even to the point of absurdity: eg. Palestinian Arabs are claimed to be descendents of first the Philistines and now the Canaanites, as opposed to being Arabs who if indigenous to anywhere are indigenous to Arabia. Is this done in order to play on Christian and Western guilt and thus be rendered as sympathetic victims of oppression in the eyes of the Western Christian world? Was this claim that Arab Palestinians are always to be referred to as an exclusively indigenous people like the indigenous of the Americas and Australia for example, an idea hashed out with Soviet communications advisors in the 60's and 70's eager to stress the supposed "colonialism" of the zionists against the supposed aboriginality of the Arabs?

I am happy that there still are some Israelis with Amiras chutzpah - it is very important and difficult to go against the mainstream- Beeing so many years at war has ruined many Israelis minds

Amira Hass: Should a Jew ask me these questions in public, I would answer him: "If you had lived here, I am not sure that you would have reacted differently than the Israelis". If Israel were not in the Middle East but in a peaceful region all these questions would be very logical and human. Unfortunately you have to blame the Arab leaders who kept their people in poverty and in refugee camps, while the Jewish refugees from Europe and from the Arab countries were taken care of by their brothers or by themselves. Today, over sixty years after the war, you don't find any Jewish refugee from that time who is under the care of the UN. They are spread all over the world peacefully and lead productive lives. They are not a burden to any state, the opposite is true: they contribute to the economy, to the arts, to the sciences etc, etc wherever they settled. I have myself been a refugee after World War II and I know for a fact that war doesn't advance humanity. I believe from my heart that every human being, of whatever religion or race he or she my be, have deep in their heart the love for their fellow human beings. The first priority in any given war is to protect their fellow citizen. In today's world it is hard to distinguish between an innocent person and a terrorist. 9/11 tought us this rule. I am convinced that you agree with me. Now I find it hard to belive that you, who are from South America belittle the number of 8000 Jewish refugees who are "moving house". If you are moving house you choose and you know where you are moving to. These poor people from the settlements did neither choose to nor did they want to move. Do you know what that means to be forced to move, whether it is your own government or another power that compels you to do so? I don't see the difference. Please stop blaming the Israelis but rather blame the Arab kings and monarchs who represent less than the percentage you mentioned, and who are sitting on a huge part of the worlds assets and do nothing for their fellow Palestinian Arabs .

Amira, I applaud you for your courage and keen insight to tell it like it is. How can a people elevate themselves above another as the Israelis have over the Palestineans. So much of the world is in the dark about the realities of Israel and Palestine. Help me to help you to spread the truth about this situation. Please, stay in contact and share info with me so i may share it with others. It will have a great impact coming from the mouth of one who knows. A JEW!!! Thanks in advance, i look forward to hearing from you. Jamaal

Is Princess Amira unaware of the brutal murder of Tali Hatuel and that her four little girls were shot to death at a point blank range, and that one of the Palestinians also shot the swollen belly of the eight months pregnant mother at blank range!!! ...an that the Arabs celebrated the killings as "heroic"'' May her memory live forever an innocent being killed. Haaretz and Amira included do not mention people like Tali since she is a "settler" and they have pure hatred for these people I think their priorities are skewed as Jews or maybe they are not Jews anymore just live here and take advantage of bashing Israel in the name of the Jews as a cover

"`The baiting of Hamas and Islamic Jihad"? poor them how they must feel set upon by those Zionists!" I'm sure they do feel put upon right now Danite. The dangling of Gaza and now the targetted killings and attacks by the IDF. What is your explanation. Are not the settlers out of Gaza? "If only those Zionists would stop provoking them they could go back to being the peace loving social democrates they always wanted to be. Do you really think like that?" I am not that naive. Neither are you. You know what I am talking about and it isn't to bash Israelis, but to call spade the truth of the disengagement. What is it but another occupation minus the settlers - at least any we are told of. Are Gazans in control or is Israel?

Chafeeka, If you don?t want to give the Palestinians of the West Bank equal citizenship (and based on your posts I dont think this is due to security as much as the ?chosen people? and ?Jewish majority? mentality) , "" how good of you to respond all the way from Toronto. A big distance between us, and a bigger distance in the way we think. As an Israeli Arab, we do not identify with the Palestinians over "there" they dont identify with Israeli Arabs either. I am in no position to grant them citizenship because that would immediately open up a rat hole called One State which I am NOT willing to do and neither any right minded human being living in Israel. just today a Palestinian stabbed to death a man walking in the old city. Kitchen knife wielding around is the Palestinian favourite past time it seems.. which I want nothing to do with. Your blind hatred and scron for the State of Israel being a Jewish State is very revealing and I really feel sorry for you to carry the burden that is illogical and biased. I wont trade my life in Israel for anything in the world. Ontario isnt perfect either!! If that's how folks think in Ontario I 'll make sure I never come to visit and waste my money in your country.

Amira does this piece help pay you student loans off? Did you write it for its shock value or slock value? You piled your sentences, like a layer cake,honoring your sisters before you, with names like Tokyo Rose, Hanoi Jane Fonda.

Is Princess Amira unaware of the brutal murder of Tali Hatuel and that her four little girls were shot to death at a point blank range, and that one of the Palestinians also shot the swollen belly of the eight months pregnant mother at blank range!!! ...an that the Arabs celebrated the killings as "heroic"

'The baiting of Hamas and Islamic Jihad"? poor them how they must feel set upon by those Zionists! If only those Zionists would stop provoking them they could go back to being the peace loving social democrates they always wanted to be. Do you really think like that? You are dangerously blind sarah.

Just make sure that before you call someone "anti-Israel" that they are really guilty of any some or or all of these transgressions as worded. I would be very careful.

"You have what you need having fought, stolen and plundered it and now you change the rules to prevent anyone else from gaining anything? That`s called hypocracy and it`s the lowest form of self-righteous judgmentalism." You are saying you want to immulate the US, and the big four? Only you want to be colonist? Its another century and colonist are not faring well. You haven't noticed the problems for the US in Iraq? That big sucking sound calls ill winds to the US both economically and politically. But you are free to follow the US down that bramble ridden path if you choose.

GREAT RESPONSE! A great deal of posters feel that if you are a zionist then you are racist! ISRAEL HAS A RIGHT TO EXISTY AS A JEWISH STATE MR ANTI SEMITE DUTCH!!!!!!!!!

Look how our Swedish Anti-semite & racist franzen chooses not to notice the stabbing of an Israeli Yeshiva student, but the "Duvdevan assassins" do attrack his attention.

The final word of the "worker" that Ms Haas quotes about how Gaza remains a prison nevertheless is telling. This "prison" will only be opened by eliminatinng the State of Israel. Pretty good idea eh! Amira

I see by all your postings that you Yaakov feel that the state of Israel was ceated in sin and that the fault of the violence in the middle east is all because of Israel. You never blame the Palestinians and blame everything on the Jews. You don't even believe in Israels moral right to exist. Infact you would be so happy if Israel disappeared and became a binational state. You say that you served in the Israel Army then so did Israel Shamir the famous anti semite who also advocates a binational state. By your postings you hate the state of Israel and have no feelings for it. Even if there was Palestinian State you still would want a binational state. Your opinions are those of Gush Shalom who reluctantly accept a Jewish state. Your opinions are close to Dutch. SHAME ON YOU MR SULLIVAN

The Arab P.R. machine has turned the whole world against us, in venomous hatred. But Amira, Gidon and Akiva and the whole Haaretz team think they still need help and indeed, are doing a skilful job in advancing the tide of totalitarian barbarism. Mr Dahlen who bombed a schoolbus, blowing the legs off the the three Cohen children and murdered the teacher Miriam Amitai,is still the chief of security and he is proud of you Amira and he should be.

Howdy Dutch; You claim that the Palestinians have rights, but that they are completely absolved from any responsibilities that go along with those rights. Sorry, if the Palestinians wish to have a state of their own, then they will first have to come to a permanent peace agreement with Israel. It is not the other way around. During a period of armed conflict, military necessity takes precedence over humanitarian concerns. That's just a fact of life. Therefore, there is nothing wrong with building the security fence because it will keep the Palestinian terrorists out of Israel and at the same time help to define the border between Israel and the West Bank. During a war, the civilian population always takes it in the shorts and it is naive to start claiming that the war should end or that one side should surrender to the demands of the other just because some non-combatants are being inconvenienced by it. That's not the way reality works.

"And so it goes in the land that supposedly hungers for peace and who claims they have no partner with whom to negotiate." If the expansionist Israeli's admit to a peace partner, they have no excuse left. Hass removes the mantel of respectability and thus is more feared than any crazed settler or assassin. Just as we saw the kid gloves used on the settlers, we already see the baiting of Hamas and Islamic Jihad. Peace, not in Israel's plans I'm afraid.

Your views smell of hatred, racism and an ugly feeling of national supremacy. You have so much to learn from Jane from Philadelphia. Let me simplify this for you. North American societies started out with settlers, displacing the indigenous peoples, much like Israel did. We have a rather ugly history. Heck, the American south even fought a civil war, in part, to preserve slavery. However, since then these societies have evolved to accept universal values of equal citizenship. While we still have racists (unfortunately too many of them), their views are generally not part of the main stream. Reading messages on this forum, and some of the articles in Israeli papers, though, there seems to be a racist supremacist undercurrent in Israel that is part of the main stream. This is mixed with a weird and sick propensity to attempt to look like victims- I say weird and sick because after all Israel has nuclear weapons and one of the strongest armies in the world, and in the confrontation with the miserable occupied Palestinians, the majority of whom you have turned into refugees, you have killed far more of them that the suicide bombers ever managed to kill of you. Wake up ? You cannot silence people in North America by shaming them because of their past treatment of Native Peoples. Yes, it is something many of us are ashamed of, and while we havent addressed past wrong, at least Natives are now full and equal citizens and are not being displaced anymore. Chafeeka, If you don?t want to give the Palestinians of the West Bank equal citizenship (and based on your posts I dont think this is due to security as much as the ?chosen people? and ?Jewish majority? mentality) , then at least withdraw from the entire territory including E. Jerusalem. And stop trying to steal more of their land and water and confine them to big (and sometimes not so big) prisons. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

The damage done by the holocaust cannot be undone. And all people should know that it was one of the most horrible attacks on a single group of people in history. Thankfully, today Israelis don't need to depened on others, they have their own country. Using the holocaust as an excuse rarely gets them something! It only got Jews national recognition of their own state! Jews built Israel mostly themselves!

Yaakov-- Fox's idea of getting along and being friends with the Arabs is still upholding his Right to dominate them. I have been through this discussion with him in the past. I think you have already picked up on this as he tries in a very unconvincing way to reassure you: "I do not hate the Arab Israeli". This hypocrisy reminds of the example Alexander Yakobson noted in his column in his Haarezt`s column (9/12/05) Crimes, not infractions about an army chief of staff: "Once there was a chief of staff who sent the following educational message --which, of course, was never explicitly stated, but was well understood -to the IDF soldiers: he was strict about matters of disciple, and took very seriously all violations except for one, the premeditated murder of an Arab. When it comes to this offense, he was full of consideration and leniency. This message was effectively communicated in a series of pardons granted by that chief of staff to soldiers who murdered Arabs." I feel this problem can be traced directly to the Israeli Occupation Forces shocking mortality in Gaza during the last four years which Amira notes: Based on figures from the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics, of those killed, 379 were children under the age of 18; 236 were younger than 16; 96 were women; and 102 were the objectives of targeted liquidation's during the course of which the Israel Defense Forces also killed another 95 individuals who, according to the military too, were "innocent bystanders." Some 9,000 Gaza residents were injured; 2,704 homes to some 20,000 people were razed by the IDF's bulldozers and assault helicopters; 2,187 were partially destroyed. Some 31,650 dunams of agricultural land were left scorched. As the Human Rights Watch in New York, Sarah Leah Whitson recently said in a Haaretz's report: "Most of Israel's investigations of civilian causalities have been a sham...The government's failure to investigate the deaths of innocent civilians has created an atmosphere that encourages soldiers to think they can literally get away with murder." (Human Rights Watch: IDF probe into Palestinian deaths a "sham," 22/6/05.) Dutch P.S. Incidentally, Human Right Watch also pointed out of the total number of deaths that occurred in the territories since 2000, only 5% were investigated. If that does sound like the example of the IDF chief's record too as Alexander Yakobson pointed out also in his column.

Well it was not just flattery I meant it. I also lived in Israel 79-79 84-90 94-96 and I miss it very much too. I also like your post about "Empire Day" I was laughing like crazy I can just imagine it.Good to have a frind and an ally as you said I dont know what other sites are like this is the only one I deal with but it gets hot under the collar around here.It is good to have another principled but pro Israeli( the Israel we love and know is there) poster. Thanks for putting up that great post. I see our brief Canadian summer is winding down good grief it is too short! Regards to you Danite

You say "humanity was created to compete.anyone who tells us he is not part of this turbulence that is mankind is a liar." I take it from that that you mean that because people have behaved in a vile and degenerate fashion towards each other in the past that they should continue to do so in the future. Further I would infer from your comment that that you believe the human race is incapable of modifying dysfunctional behavior patterns based upon trial and error experimentation. People like you serve to perpetuate needless suffering. We need more Amiras in this world and fewer Richards.

Alex, I agree that the intifaddeh was a useless waste of human life on both sides. But you imply that the intifaddeh somehow the blame of the Palestinians? This I find regretful. It shows you are another one of the legions of Jews who aren't able to take any responsibility for the the current situation. It's pathelgoical self rightiousness. Most of the others, who accept responsibility prefer to focus on why aren't other injustices in the spotlight... If one wants to be objective, they can review newspapers and other sources DAILY from the moment Sharon walked on the Temple Mount in 2000 to the present to see that the Intifaddeh was a cycle of violence between two parties with a tremendous power imbalance. Israel sparked it all by killing 18 Palestinians who protested Sharon's ill fated visit and shortly after killed 13 of their own Israeli Arabs. (I can hear you now....the Arabs had it all planned out....yeah right) Israel responded to the popular protests with a heavy hand. I think in first month, the death count was about 100 to 5? The situation rapidly deteriorated. When Israel announced its policy of killing Hamas leaders, Hamas began the suicide bombings. I am sure you are reading this, nice and snug, thinking how can you find moral equivalency between killing Hamas leaders (and regretting the civillians that die on accident) vs. suicide bombings. If that's your only angle and it helps you sleep snugly, then God help you. One player, the Palestinians suffered an extreme power imbalance. The other player, Israel, enjoyed a monopoly on power and used it, pretty enthusiastically. Israelis have this attitude: How dare the Palestinians protest our domination over this land!!!! Occupation Corruption Syndrome. Suicide bombings made impotent fighters feel potent and the ugly phenomenon begins...Israel is as much to blame for all the senseless death as anyone. When are you people going to get simply get off your self righteous trip, come back to the negotiating table, return to the 1967 borders, and live friggin happily ever after? You should think more about that than the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem in 1945 for heaven's sake. Israeli leaders were snug with a few ex Nazi South African leaders.... And now the wall....I doubt the LEFT wanted to snake it through Arab Villages and main street Ram, provacatively telling the Palestinians WE DO WHAT WE WANT AND YOU CAN'T STOP US... If Hamas gave up their arms tomorrow or declared a 10 year hudna, Israel would not stop the wall...They will need to be pressured to do so. And we'll work with all our friends and supporters you claim we have to apply this pressure. Alex, it seems you are even bitter about the fact that Palestinians have friends in the world...? I guess I would simply ask you to pare me the self righousness, accept your half of the responsibility, and get your people to make PEACE.

You say Americans and Canadians have learned from their horrible mistakes of the past. Since preeminent among those "horrible mistakes" is the genocide of the native inhabitants, the Indians are , sadly unable to learn from those mistakes, being as they are mainly dead. Israeli Arabs have citizenship rights as do Native Americans in US and Canada. But non-Israeli Arabs ALSO have 22 sovereign Arab states, comprising over 99% of the Middle East . How many Indian provinces are there in Canada? You surely wouldn't object to giving the Indians just one province, would you? Maybe Ontario? US and Canada have no declared policy of "white" majority, true enough. That was dealt with in North America in a different way: "If they're all dead, we can't discriminate against them!" I wouldn't be too impressed with myself if I were you.

As controversial as her statements may be the fact that Amira Hass can publish an article like this is evidence of a democratic liberal Israel as opposed to the its medieval authocratic Arab neighbours. When Arabs and their supporters world wide will acknowledge and debate the crimes and wrongs perpetrated against the Jews including the daily diet of antisemitic incitement in their media and the terrorist attacks against innocent civilians peace and reconciliation will be within reach

I thought you'd want more info about First Nations in Canada. I mean it's not like it's a topic that warrants any attention in the International media. In Canada, access to information about ongoing dispossession of First Nation lands, especially in BC are also not regularly reported nationally. For example, there is not even a single Aboriginal columnist or reporter in any of the national newspapers or in the leading BC newspapers. I wonder why?

And if the Black man would only behave, maybe Whites wouldn`t be forced to treat them so badly. It`s like the rapist blaming the rape victim for kicking, biting and scratching him. Hamas was founded in 1987. Hizbullah was founded in 1982. Palestinian Islamic Jihad was founded in 1979. Prior to 1967 there were no suicide bombers blowing up buses, restaurants and discos in Tel Aviv."" You got that right! prior to '67 we were faced with "fedayeen" from Gaza and Jordan and Syria Lebanon. maybe it was before you were born. if you want to dig more into history haj amin husseini was the arab brother of Hitler wanna go further in history? I sure liked New Orleans when I toured US after college graduation. but you must not equate the blacks of US to arab palestinian /Israeli conflict. They have nothing in common...

Amazing article! Words that us Jews dont want to accept, but theyre very true. Thank you for having the courage explain reality to everybody.

Many Americans, myself included, grew up as zionists, believing that after the holocaust, the establishment of Israel was essential and desirable. But we also grew up with an appreciation for the rights and circumstances of others who are not quite like us. We were taught thiis by jews and blacks during our civil right struggles in the 1960s. For us, it is entirely possible to be both pro-Israel and pro-Palestinian. We just want to see a fair and just peace, AGREED TO BY BOTH SIDES. Occationally, after reading articles by Amira Hess or a story of an IDF action where large numbers of civilians are injured or killed or learn of the impact of the occupation on innocent Palestinians, we express outrage. This is because we see Israelis acting exactly contrary to the norms we were taught, mostly by jews. And then we get hammered by Rich and others like him, mostly from England, who accuse us of being genocidal settlers and colonists living on stolen land. They set up this straw man to divert attention rather than discuss the issues at hand. However, it must be remembered: The English introduced germ warfare against indians into the Americas in the 1700s. The English forceably relocated 4 million Irish to the Americas. If a quarter of their 40 million republican decendents came back to Belfast, how would it feel? The English were responsible for Balfour. The Mandate was drafted and ignored by the English. People who live in glass housed should refrain from throwing stones. Many like me remain adamant in our support for Israel's right to exist within secure borders. We also remain adamant in our belief in UNIVERSAL human rights. That includes Israelis and Palestinians.

I sent you a long response to your post as to "how are you feeling today" but they did not post it I dont know why.To be brief the answer is Asabi Awi!!! In brief I have had enough of the way the human rights narrative is used as club on Israel by those who either think they are just fine or thats for others not them. I decided to turn the spotlight on them and look under every single rock and if i find anything not absolutely perfect then I will start with the charges of WAR CRIMES!!! APARTHEID!!! GENOCIGE!!!RACISM!!! As they do with Israel. I alos mentioned that discussing with a nuanced and sophisticated man of the world like you I can also be a nuanced sophisticated man of the world which I prefer, but I will start giving like to like because they are gross hypocrites of the first order.How unfortunate it is that you are not in postion of power in the PA (or maybe for you its best that you are not) I am sure if you went on a speaking tour of Israel you would change many minds with your good will your honesty and honorable intentions. At least you are willing to listen and consider in an intelligent fashion what other people have to say. You are for sure a cut way above the usual stuff that comes around here. Do I have a problem debating you accepting your views even when I think you are totaly wrong? Not at all as you are very tolerant of some of my views which you dont share. this to me is what it it is all about! Allah maak Ya Zalame!

People are anti-Israel because they refuse to read what doesn`t conform to uncritical solidarity with the Palestinian Arab nationalist, pan-Arab nationalist and pan-Islamic cause; because they have been led to believe that all or most Arabs in Israel are indigenous peoples and that most Jews are rich and powerful colonialist invaders (In other words, an Arab who came to Israel from Bosnia, or Egypt is indigenous, but a Jew who came from Bessarabia, or Egypt is not); because they have been led to believe that Jews weren`t persecuted, but content to live as dhimmi; because they have been led to believe that Jews in Israel made no efforts to consult with and cooperate with Arabs; because they see the al-Husseini clan`s Nazi funded movement as understandable and care not a whit for what the al-Husseinis did to the Nashishibis or Jews; because they see the 1947-48 Arab siege of Jerusalem (a city with a Jewish majority) as moral and understandable, but the Haganah`s struggle to free Jerusalem from that siege as an unwarranted and immoral tactic to dispossess Arabs of their land; because they think Nasser`s self-aggrandizement and his brutal war in Yemen, his endless threats to destroy Israel by force and his support for endless fedayeen low intensity warfare from Gaza (while not giving Gazans citizenship or equal rights) as the mark of a progressive statesman with a social conscience; because they have never heard of Syria`s 20 year long artillery bombardment of northern Israel from the Golan heights because it never came up at the UN; because they believe that Fatah, the PLO, the PFLP etc., unanimously agree that Israel can live in security behind the 67 armistice lines and that the PLO Charter and Arafat`s phased plan have been summarily and unequivocably revoked. Because they believe that a binational state run by a Muslim Arab majority will not make Shari`ah the basic law of the land and instead choose to govern over a secular democratic state with equal rights for all regardless of ethnicity or religion or lack thereof; because they believe that Arafat and Abbas negotiated in good faith, but Rabin and Barak were intransigent; because they believe that Arabs had a better chance to lead healthy and prosperous lives with high infant mortality rates, without electricity, health care, agricultural assistance, running water or universities under Jordan and Egypt than they have since 67; because they see 1977 Sadat as a traitor and 1973 Sadat as a hero; because they believe that it is impermissable to take anything at face value from a Jewish zionist source because it`s a Jewish zionist source; because they think that Christian majority states in the world don`t inculcate their religion through educational and political institutions, but Israel is an ethnocratic state; because they are at once frustrated and exhausted by the mutually opposed narratives offered by zionists and Arabs but also are preversely titillated by it even though thye have no real stake in the conflict; because they disapprove of their tax dollars being sent to Israel in the form of loans, but don`t mind if their country`s debt is owned by other foreigners. There`s so much more, but that`s enough for now.

and if Haaretz Editorial staff has any sense of decency left, should do same as CNN did to Peter. But then, all the hoopla Haaretz seeks from some of the demented who permanently post dribble will be terribly missed by those who count how many hits this website took to compare with other news media

What kind of a Palestinian state will it be when they ask that no Jews are allowed to live in their territory while there are over a million Arabs living in Israel? Perfect example of the Arabs practicing ethnic cleansing. Also, why do Arabs describe where they live in Gaza and the West Bank as "refugee camps"? How can someone be a refugee in their own country? I think the Palestinians are more interested in destroying Israel than building a country for themselves. That would mean they would have to work.

Yes Danite I was flattered by your compliments to my post of yesterday and am glad to have you as a friend and ally. I will send that post again today to the board. Yes I was born in Canada and outside of a couple of years doing high school in the galil elyon, have lived here most of my life -- but I miss Israel very much as well.

How about all your colonies. How many non-jews live in Mali Adumem? yet few yards away, non-jews wollow in miserable conditions brought upon by Israel`s crushing economic embargo and severe limitations to freedom of movement of goods and persons."" Azzam, There is one thing I learnt real fast those folks who call the settlements by the right word and others who refer to them as "colonies" as if we are in S Africa. That is a clear give away that YOU are no peace partner since you equate falsely apartheid to our situation which doesnt apply. If you want to play the game of how many here and how many there .. I shall play your game as ask you too how many Jews live in Saudi Arabia, UAE, in Syria maybe 200 elderly too weak to move out. in Jordan? ARe Jews welcome in ARab States with EQUAL RIGHTS AS MUSLIMS? Why the double standard for Israel? its time to stop coddling the "poor Palestinians" you are not poor or wretched stop pretending already. if a person is poor he will seek employment - any employment - your guys choose to roam the streets with guns they have money for that right?? Freedom of Movement we discussed that upteenth time. If you kept your suicide bombers in your pocket zippered tight - youd have freedom of movement. Nobody wants to be your prey .. dear.. you need to take responsibility for being a lousy peace partner. the Arab-Israeli water dispute, which has dragged on in part because of mutual suspicions and recriminations. The outline for resolving the issue was set out already in 1953-56 by Eric Johnston's U.S.-sponsored missions to establish a division of waters among Israel, Jordan, and Syria. The plan he proposed closely anticipated the water treaty Israel and Jordan signed in 1995. At the time, however, neither side was prepared to sign on to the Johnston plan, as Miriam Lowri, previously at the Department of Near Eastern Studies of Princeton University, explains in her excellent account. Instead, each side went ahead with its independent plans, leading to disputes in 1964-67 about Jordanian irrigation, Israel's national water carrier, and the Arab plan to divert the headwaters of the Jordan. When Egypt supported Syria in these disputes in the spring of 1967, a spiral began that led to the Six-Day War in June 1967.

Do you ever read my posts? Like ones I have been posting for the past three months attacking the Greater Israel idea and the Likud , supporting a seetlement freeze and a two state solution. Do you see how this Zionist newspaper allows you and others to post the most anti zionist rhetoric imaginable? Their are many jews and israelis who consider this occupationa total nightmare and would like nothing more for you to have a state as soon as possible! This sight is full of Jews who are critical of Israel (for the right reasons). No one claims the Jews are the perfect people!!!! Here! I am a Jew and I say JEWS ARE NOT PERFECT PEOPLE! Okay? However when any discussion comes up about the Palestinian society using exactly the SAME STANDARDS by which they jump all over Israel with, then it is denial denial denial, "its the fault of the occupation" etc etc etc etc etc. All I am saying is if you wish to use the human rights narrative apply it to yourselves as well, it was not meant to be club to hit others over the head with. Thats my point!

Sorry, no sympathy here. This was Arafat's war. He started a war when he mistakenly rejected the greatest peace offer the Palestinians will ever receive. In war, civilians die...on both sides. The Arabs have always misjudged history and opportunities with leaders that have never had the welfare of the masses as a priority. The author is an unrealistic bleeding heart.

There are some wonderful brilliant and witty people on this board. Some really funny people, some really wise people. I chose to completely ignore the others. Isn't it amazing that 21st technology such as televisions and computers bring into our living rooms, people that we would not have to our house?

"It`s so cruel and upsetting for all of us." How terrible for you. :-| "Now I am sorry the UN ever created the State of Israel. The Israelis have been nothing but trouble for the people in the Middle East and one nightmare after another for the Palestinian people. I cannot support this dreadful state anymore...I feel it has no consideration for others." I am surprised to hear that there was a time you were happy that they State of Israel was founded, or that you had ever supported it. Funny how none of that joy and support ever seemed to have crept into your posts. And states don't "have consideration for others" - people do. States have interests. Israel has arguably not always acted in its own best interests, but that's hardly something unique in the region.

Oh, the gunmen killed in Tulkarm. Silly me, I thought you meant the yeshiva boy stabbed to death in the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem...

Why Jews keep accepting this Arab lie is beyond me!

Finally Mr. Murray, though I did not bring up the subject of comparing Palestinians to Aboriginals in Canada, I will say this much. First Palestinians and their supporters claim that all Palestinians are indigenous just like First Nations are in the western hemisphere even though this claim is itself unsubstantiable. So who here is making a suspect linkage between Palestinian Arabs and indigenous Aboriginals Mr. Murray? Second, you are damned lucky that Aboriginals do not yet resort to Palestinian tactics (i.e. perpetual armed struggle interspersed with temporary hudnas) but prefer the costly and time consuming process of going through the Canadian courts - the latter which have more recently been more sympathetic to First Nations - but whose rulings, forest and mining multinational corporations, Provincial and local governments attempt to sidestep at every juncture. Your arguments are a disgrace both because you try to cover up Canadian injustice to First Nations for the people reading this board -- and also for demonizing Israel for being both Jewish and democratic, when you know damn well that Canadian educational and political institutions privilege Christian customs, symbols, history, literature, and subsidies over all non-Christian belief systems because of the power and traditional ethnocentricity of the Christian majority. Doesn't Ontario still only subsidize Catholic schools by fiat, Mr. Murray? Is the Crown that owns so much of the land and resources and which is the source for laws in Canada no longer an exclusive Anglican institution, Mr.Murray?

As an American Jew watching on tv the attacks by the settlers on the police and idf my co-workers ask how I feel about Jew against Jew. It was a horror that I hoped would never happen again since the killing of Rabin. If we must give up the land G-d gave us to survive on a smaller amount then we must do so with honor and respect for all those who sacrificed so much for Israel to exist in the first place.My children have dual citizenship since there Aba is an Israeli and I try to explain to them what is happening. I have radical cousins who are settlers ,who are not Israeli born nor have the same mind set as an Israeli and it is these people who bring disgrace to our people by acting in such a vulgar and hostile way.I pray for peace that would bring us as a people respect,honor and the continued existence of the Jewish people in the land that is ours by the hand of G-d. Hoppefully the world will finally see that we are doing these painful things so that we as a nation will survive.

To Andy Murray First of all, no where in my post #217 did I mention Palestinians. Personally, as someone who is intellectually confident that it is hypocritical to be either an unflinching pro Palestinian solidarity activist, or an uncritical supporter of every policy Israel has adopted, I find it all too telling and historically disingenuous that you react with outrage about the fate of some of the Arab refugees of the Arab instigated war of 48 (the term you used was: "ethnic cleansing"), but can't express any outrage whatsoever for the fate of the Jews who were "ethnically cleansed" by Arab irregular and armed forces in 1920, 1921, 1933-36 and 1948, 1967 and 1973. Not to mention the rest of the ethnic cleansing that Arab forces committed against Jews and Christians (see Lebanon for massacres of Christians) since: eg. the Egyptian sponsored fedayeen, the myriad of Palestinian guerilla organizations like Fatah, PFLP, PLO, Black September, Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, Tanzim, Force 17, Hizbollah, Hamas and Islamic Jihad -- and this list is incomplete. Since you either have never read about Arab "ethnic cleansing" or overlook it entirely to suit an unflinching solidarity with every Palestinian claim, one may surely ask whether you have any credibility when you scream about hypocricy. Next as a Canadian, you should be deeply ashamed for perpetuating a convenient myth that First Nations are no longer being displaced from their land. Remember Oka Mr. Murray? When the Surrete de Quebec and the Canadian Armed forces defended the rights of non-aboriginal mayor and council to bulldoze Mohawk burial grounds for a golf course? Remember Ipperwash, Ontario Mr. Murray? Didn't your then premier of Ontario, Mike "common sense" Harris order the use of force which led to the killing of unarmed Dudley George? What about Gustafson Lake, BC where the provincial Attorney-General Ujjal Dossanjh (now the Canadian Minister for Health) sent in RCMP swat teams and his police commissioner lied to the media about non-armed Aboriginal protestors being armed in their stand against a disputed land title Mr. Murray? Or what about Canadian Olympic hero Nancy Green's dispossession of Aboriginal land at Sun Peaks for a ski resort against all protestations from First Nations? Even where I live, Mr. Murray, private developers are at this moment -with the blessing of local non-aboriginal governments- buying up huge tracts of land that land poor First Nations, claim in as yet unresolved treaty negotiations with the provincial and federal governments.

Yes, I think you are correct that we are worlds apart if you compare the IDF to Bin Laden. Maybe the IDF is Bin Laden to you and that makes me very sad to think how angry you are. I am a lifelong Zionist and I do believe in the necessity of a Jewish state. I also believe in the 2 state solution with each country having defensible borders and living as good neighbors. I pray that one day we will all have peace, security and equality Azzam, you included.

i just love your name..... are you as beautiful a person as your name ?

"...justification for silencing any North Americans who dare criticize their atrocities and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians." --ethnic cleansing? come on. not only is the ethnic part highly contentious (i.e. a Palestinian peoples perhaps but no Palestinian ethnic group), but the cleansing is simply untrue and downright offensive. Your incendiary language wins you no points here. moving on. "Americans and Canadians made horrible mistakes in the past. They learned from them and now the Native Peoples have equal citizenship rights and they are no longer being displaced from their land." --right. Now the lucky ones have casinos. You might be able to fool those overseas but I live in the same part of the world as you. Reservations are not happy places and there is most certainly displacement still carried out. "The U.S. and Canada have no declared policy of "white" majority similar to Israeli`s declared "Jewish" majority objectives. " --you're right, there's no declared policy in our countries, but that doesn't mean it's not there. I won't go down that road, though. Instead, I would draw your attention to the OCEAN on either side of our nations and the general cultural and socio/economic compatibility of inhabitants. If all the Canadians poured into the US (which they do on work days, come to think of it) it would just make our country a little cleaner, more polite and perhaps boring; were the opposite to happen, well, we'd probably make your Canada louder and more cool but also less clean and beautiful. Still, I doubt there would be drastic upheaval either way, provided we explained to you how to work the nukes. Now we could argue about who's to blame for this but Israel's relationship with her neighbors isn't exactly analogous to the US/Canada one, eh? You've seen Sesame Street, right? Which one of these things is not like the others? If you said Israel you're right. Not only in terms of government but also national religion. Unfortunatley, in order to preserve democracy (and keep the weapons in the right hands...or at least out of the wrong ones), offering citizenship to the West Bank refugees is not an option....How aboot Saskatchewan?

u really dont like it when you are forced to look in the mirror so you gave the natives some of their own land did you.... you golden boy andy...what a lovely boy you are...the answer to any girls dreams sorry matey.... you are living on stolen land...aint no amount of clever talk gonna change that fact ... you are a settler ... go tell the aboriginals ...what exactly do you call them..... natives perhaps..... which implies that they are perhaps INDIGENOUS which also implies that those who are not natives are FOREIGNERS ie invading settlers.

sorry Grif....actually i love usa but cant stand people who live in a pure 100% unambiguous colonialist entity where land has been stolen from its true owners the indians ....and then have the gall to criticise Jews who wish to live in Judea/Samaria and Gaza.... it is perverse...... it is so obvious that jews have far more rights to be anywhere in the M.E than white invaders in the usa.

Claude -- You need to catch some fresh air yourself. You moral complacency is disturbing. Amira is right--there are many crimes being committed against innocent Palestinians in Gaza every day that many Israelis are either unaware or remain morally indifferent to. How dreadful. Also, what about your pioneering settlers--who couldn't care less about their poor neighbors down the road. I like the way Stephen Murray described their indifference recently on this forum: "How does the author have the nerve to say that when it was blatantly obvious to each and every settler (8500 of them) and their supporters that while they lived in isolated splendor on 35% of Gaza landscape protected by the army (many of whom died protecting them) that 1,200,000 Palestinians (many refugees) lived in poverty and despair, trapped in the world`s largest jail with little to no freedom of movement, packed like sardines in the remaining 65%." Then you have the audacity to attack the messengers like Amira and Haaretz's for relating the details of their crimes and their call for moral action. Shame on you Claude for not demanding no moral accountability for crimes against humanity. Dutch

I don't think Azzam is an uneducated person. I do however think he is grossly miseducated and misinformed: "I think it`s very arrogant of you to suggest that there is a shared responsiblility. You are a colonialist, we are not. You are a supremacist, we are not. You are an invader, we are not." The above is clearly what he has been taught - no self reflection involved at all. Israel is neither colonialistiv, supremacist nor invaders. It did not wake up one morning and decide to invade its neighbours. The opposite is true. Jordan attacked Israel in 1967 (despite Israel's message to King Husseing to keep out of the fighting which had commenced with Egypt). Both Jordan and Syria jumped onto the bandwagon, thinking that this time they would together get rid of Israel once and for all. In fact you are the invaders. The West Bank was conquered by Israel in a War of defence and there is not a hope in hell to deny or refute this fact.

Ever since Lebanon, I have wondered how Jews could do the things Israelis have. They bomb civilians indiscriminatly and express horror over suicide bombers. How would they like bombs coming through their roofs? How would they like their homes destroyed, their land expropriated? How would they like the checkpoints and humiliations Palestinians endure? How would they like the second-hand citizen treatment - and worse - of Israeli Arabs? I am a Jew. Jews have ethics and consciences. Supporters of Israeli expansionism are different kinds of Jews.

When I saw the title I assumed the article would be about the 99.5% of Jewish settlers still illegally living in the West Bank and Gaza. I have never once on this paper or anywhere else seen an Israeli voice concern for the millions of Palestinian refugees. So naturally I assumed that the 99.5% referred to the settlers. I think Israel's soul searching over the Gaza disengagement should be short. The remaining 99.5% of the settlers\squatters in the West Bank (including East Jerusalem) and how to get them out of their illegal homes should be the immediate priority. If it's Gaza first and Gaza last the intifada will reignite. Israel needs to prove to the world that it cares about peace and justice. Unless they disengage from the West Bank and East Jerusalem then the world needs to face up to the fact that the Palestinians have no partner for peace and act accordingly ie sanctions against Israel.

Does your defininition of ocupation include Tel Aviv? Or perhaps you Rigth of Return for Arabs and judenrein Palestine. Arab balance

"Don`t forget to go after the Vikings and the vandals while you are it. And if I were you, I would settle scores with the Germans, now that you have the nukes. So what if it`s the 21st century." And tell me Azzam, how are behaving Arabs in the XXI Century? In Sudan, New York, India and specially Saudi Arabia? So different from Vandals? But perhaps you mean that Arabs are not really in the XXI Century. Of course, the blame is for somebody else.

Israelis' indiffernece to its neighbors While Israelis deny their neighbor's right to exist they claim they have every right to exist. While Israelis steal their neighbors land they claim they can do no wrong. While Israelis watch their soldiers destroy their neighbors property they build up their own. While Israelis claim they want peace they are ready for war and glorify in their might. While Israelis say they are victims of violence they are perpetrators of violence. While Israelis ought to respect and obey the laws --they dismiss and reject them. While Israelis should be kind and caring neighbors they are unkind and uncaring neighbors... Dutch

I couldn't agree more fully with you. There is no shared blame. Palestinians are terrorists and intentional ruthless killers of innocent murderers of women and children. Jews, with very few exceptions, are moral to a fault in their activities, risking lives of soldiers to avoid civilian casualties (for example when Hamas leaders were not bombed with a powerful 1 ton bomb but rather a 1/4 ton bomb when they were meeting in the basement of a house in order to avoid killing civilians in neighboring houses - the hamas killers all survived unscathed). There is a great tendency of the liberal press (Haaretz included) to find moral equivilency and to find if there two purported sides to a conflict that there must be fault on both sides. As you have stated, here it is not the case. The Palestinians have a singular and unattainable goal of pushing the Jews into the sea and are the cause of coninued bloodshed. They never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity and do not meet Israelis half-way. Where is the Palestinian concessional equivilent of the Gaza withdrawal. Israel has time and time again stopped those who will not compromise (now in Gaza and earlier when the Altalena was attacked to prevent renegade Jews from continuing the war in '48 and not accepting peace and a single army of th IDF). When will the Palestinians have their Altalena and will moderates (if there are any) rise up against Hamas and Islamic Jihad and accept a peaceful solution to the conflict?

Some of the right wingers on this site remind me so much of the White segregationists of the American South 40 years ago. The thing that they both have in common is that they blame the victim. Their standard line was that the lynchings, bombings and oppression of the Black man was all his own fault. And if the Black man would only behave, maybe Whites wouldn't be forced to treat them so badly. It's like the rapist blaming the rape victim for kicking, biting and scratching him. Hamas was founded in 1987. Hizbullah was founded in 1982. Palestinian Islamic Jihad was founded in 1979. Prior to 1967 there were no suicide bombers blowing up buses, restaurants and discos in Tel Aviv. Settler families weren't being gunned down in their cars because there were no settlers. Shlomo Ben-Ami summed it up when he said, "Accusations made by a well-established society about how a people it is oppressing is breaking rules to attain its rights do not have much credence." UN Resolution 2649, which is an acknowledgment of this principle, "Affirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples under colonial and alien domination recognized as being entitled to the right of self-determination to restore to themselves that right BY ANY MEANS AT THEIR DISPOSAL". It really boggles my mind that in a nation whose founding fathers had hands that were drenched in blood (Dier Yassin, Qibya, Edward Lord Moyne, U.N. mediator Count Bernadotte, King David Hotel) there be people who would show such moral indignation when others use the same tactics they used. Do they think that violence is a Jewish privilege?

Ibrahim-- You are right -- Jacob is a hypocrite. While demanding that Palestinians observe Israelis rights he refuses to acknowledge and accept Palestinian's right. Indeed, it is unconscionable to run a wall through people villages and main streets. The Israelis should have coordinated this wall at least with the Palestinians. Instead of creating all this hardship for the Palestinian people. It's so cruel and upsetting for all of us. Little wonder 150 countries voted again this war. You could say that's a wall against the world. I cannot support this inconsiderate state anymore.... Dutch

The U.S. and Canada have no declared policy of "white" majority similar to Israeli`s declared "Jewish" majority objectives. Stop this hypocrisy and racism and give the Palestinians of the West Bank equal citizenship rights."" US and Canada comparisons to the Middle East is no brainer comparison and I wont even waste my time pointing out the differences... The West Bank is under Palestinian control or was. With the encouragement of the leader yasser the west bank turned into one home for suicide bombers. I certainly would not grant citizenship to such a nation neither would US or Canada besides both of these countries didnt have preachers holler on loudspeakers to kill americans and canadians you must be really young and inexperienced and fed the Palestinian propaganda formula at birth to think the way you do. Giving West Bank arabs Israeli citizenship ? not on your life habibi regards

Maybe the Jewish people don't think 24/7 about the holocaust, but they ensure to make the entire world feel guilty by invoking the holocaust when things don't go their way, in other words, they still blackmail all the European countries (not just Germany, who still pays off Israel for what Hitler did). As horrible as it was, the holocaust today is used as an instrument for the Jewish people (Israel) to get what they want. Nor yourself nor anyone else can deny this fact. Quit using the anti-Semitism and the holocaust as crutches. Learn from it but don't use it and abuse it?enough..

Your article follows the same twisted logic that was used in the 40 and 50 by the Communist propaganda. So while we had very little food to eat , mainly potatoes, kasha, chicken and horse meet the papers were full of pictures of Harlem slums in NY and a palces of " the Rich" in Beverly Hills. And the rethoric question was how can the "capitalist people" next to the griding poverty of the masses. Another one was that Americans were butchering the freedom fighting Koreans while. So Americans were the nurderous fascist. At the same time millions were dying in Siberia Gulag Camps and Communist Chinese invaded Tibet and butchered 100 of thousands Tibetans. You are a Zdanov style propaganda mouthpiece. Israel is not the root cause of palestinian poverty. Had ther be no Israel a totalitarian palestine would have been in existance. The Mufti would have been the "Ayatollah Like " Head of theocartic Palestine. Extrapolating how all the neighboring Arab state evolved, be it Saudi Arabia, Syria, Jordan, Egypt such a Palestine stae would be one black whole of peverty. It may have even be in a state of continious war with Jordan to expand Palestine to a "Greater Palestine. The Secular Arafat and his entourage in PLO and PA enriched themselve by stealing the aid money. Wasn't it the PA Minister Fayed, who was brought in from the West and declared that Arafts sifined off in excess of 1 billion dollars. In what of shore bank is the money hidden. Does his wife Ruha needs such large sunms while she leaves with her Lebanese companion , an ex- Falanga officer who was involved in Sabra and Shatilla massacre. Other billions were given by Arafat to his corrupt PA colleagues. This is the root of Palestinian Gazan and West Bank population. When Oslo was still perceived as the future the unemployment among the Palestinians went down to around 10%. But then, He asked barghuti to lit the match and launch the Intifada. The economy in the territories collapsed. Arafat and his cronies did not want a palestinian State. The intifada was disctracting the population from seing the "robbery" carried out By Arafta and his cronies. In an independent Palestine, poeple would have asked "Where is the money?" Amira, don't blame the Israelis.Wake up lady and smell the coffee.

Right on, I agree entirely. Those in the US who dare to criticize Israel are quickly attacked as anti-semites and crypto-nazis. Many of our finest elected officials have been driven from public office for just that. It has come to the point that whenever Sharon says "frog" Congress jumps. It is a shame and a disgrace, particularly as only 40 percent of Americans support Israel at all. Israel's hold over the US Congress, to my mind, is the single greatest obstacle to peace in the region.

Under the cover of the Gaza disengagement, the city of Jerusalem has just approved a plan to build Jewish homes in the center of the Muslim Quarter of the city. This area houses 10 times more people than in any other place in Jerusalem. For the last several years, American Jew Irving Moskowitz has poured millions of dollars into building a Jewish settlement in Arab East Jerusalem. The residents of these homes live under heavy security, with machine gun-wielding guards overlooking the neighbors below. This arrangement has already caused tension with Palestinian neighbors. The new plan to build homes and a synagogue for 150 Jews in the Muslim Quarter of the Old City of Jerusalem is different --- it`s not privately funded. Instead, it`s funded by the Israeli government, with US taxpayer support. Saeb Erekat said about the plan, "This is pouring fuel on the fire. We ask that the international community intervene immediately to stop such actions." Sorry Saeb the international community was only interested in the charade that happened last week...the press vultures are on their way home again. Nobody can believe that the lives of the Palestinians will get better just because Ariel choose to kick some settlers of the stolen land. No,he is just behaving as always: a liar, a occupier, a corrupt manipulator and no partner for peace. Sorry Abu Mazen you have no partner for peace! Same old, same old...

come on Andy, get real. the native peoples of Canada have received handsome amounts of land in areas that few Canadians would dream of living in. trust me buddy, the shit would hit the fan if they layed claim to Toronto and Montreal, and began blowing up TTC busses. the it would be seven bullets to the head. I remember the conflagaration in OKA. Out of sight out of mind, it works in a huge country. Here the Palestinians want jerusalem and Tel Aviv, this is real stuff. So don't give me your pompous and superfulous garbage about the wonderful treatment of Native Peoples.

Rich, What are you talking about? Actually, the US press has referenced many times the crimes committed by our settlers against Native Americans, Blacks, and Mexicans, etc. -- for there are no powerful lobbying groups determined to stop them from doing so, on the contrary what lobbying there is on those issues is all in favor of such reporting. Israel, however, is another question altogether. The American mainbstream media rarely reports the Palestinian side of the issue, and nearly all reportage follows faithfully the Likud line. In this regard the Israeli press is far more open and free.

Assassins of the Duvdevan unit, executed three Palestinians in Tulkarm this evening.

thanks for the info.... thanks for highlighting how the abuse of the natives still continues albeit in different forms

Although I agree with Amira, I do not agree with believing your side blindly and insitently. My family came to Israel, from Egypt, because they hostilities against them were intense, because they feared for their lives, because adults threw stones at my father (he was 4 years old). It is true that the Jews of Israel have acted immorally; it is also true that Arabs of various places have acted immorally. There is no 'right' side here, only 2 wrong sides.

I sent three posts hours ago responding to other posts addressed to me. The last post was that to El Birawi which has appeared but where are the other ones? They are no different than any of the those I write and you post. I would appreciate you posting them,They took me sometime to write them. Thank you Danite

Miko Stated ?Who would deny that racism exists in England? But does this justify racism elsewhere. ? I?m sorry, but it was you who put forth the argument that ?I have been anywhere where it is so acceptable to be openly racist?. Were you referring to England or Israel. I suggest that before you place Israel at the bottom of the racism barrel you take a good look at England before making your stand. The fact that you attempt to excuse this behaviour in England by stating that the anti-Irish prejudice was rife due to bombs going off in London, perhaps you should revisit your original hypothesis. In clarification, you appear to have missed the reference used by the French ambassador TOWARDS Israel, when describing that ?sh*tty little country?. So as London, so to do you find a significant mix of ethnicities in Israel. Perhaps too if Israeli?s were not under constant threat for the past 50 years, they too would behave in such an overtly genteel manner. Then again, I saw what the citizens of Manchester had to say over the purchase of Man. U and seem to remember that it was British football fans that were banned from the Continent. Perhaps your slice of life in London is a bit different. The point is there is indeed racism everywhere. I think its more of a level playing field than you like to think rather than take pot shots at Israelis.

Dont avoid the issue with nonsense of course I know the differnece between Syria and palestine though I wonder at your use of a Bangladeshi as an example of a "even a dumbell would know that" type of thing. Okay then lets forget Syria. Have you every publicly condemed 'Honour Killings" which occur in Palestine? If not are you not then complicite in the murders of women? Do you consider it murder? Do you condem the anti semitic statments of hamas? Or are you complicite in their attempts to ethnicaly cleanse the Jews out of Palestine? Is that close enough to home for you? Lets talk about the status of Palestinian women hnour killings and what you know about it! Even a Bangladeshi would get the point! I have asked three times about Palestinian women, you have ignored the question. can you answer? I bet you wont

What a great, revealing article that I wish American mainstream papers and radio would have the courage, because that's what it takes to tell the truth in the US about what goes on in Israeli occupied territories, to speak out about injustices which we have supported by our silence and monetary largesse.

"Palestine is not Syria. How come I am stuck with folks on this forum who did not finish school and don`t know the difference between the countries." Pals and Syrians didn't make such distinctions in 48, 67, and 73, when they attacked Israel.

Amira Haas is saying- 1. How can one have sympathy for the settlers in their villas and green lawns if these self same settlers wwre so impervious to the misery of their Palestinian neighbors? 2. How can we have sympathy for the settlers when their settlments took away land from the Palestinians, who are already overcrowded, and whose settlements have carved the Gaza strip into three " prisons"? 3. What talents does it take to live in a villa ? I would like to respond with the following: 1.Suffering ius suffering. Ignoring suffering- even that of your enemy- is not commendable. If there are settlers who are insensitive, then I have no excuses for them. But I can still have pain in my heart when I see people who have lived three generations in homes and communities being forcibly evicted. Where does it say that one can not have sympathy or empathy for people unless they are sensitive to their enemies' pain? What is Amira Haas' excuse? 2. a. Most of the land the settlers took, except for one of the settlements ( I beleive it was Morag) was on land that was uninhabited. They were sand dunes which no farmer would think of touching. b. Haas reports the occupation out of context. Israel invaded the Gaza strip after Egypt's Nasser ammassed hundreds of tanks on the border ( after kicking out U.N. forces) and blocking the Straits of Tiran in 1967. Israelis at that time believed that they were facing an existential threat. This out of context analysis is unforgivable for any knowledgeable journalist. c. Let's say that Israel should have legft the Gaza strip on its own YEARS AGO, so as not to occupy a foreign people. When and how should they have done it? Before the peace deal with Egypt? Just give up all the hard won battles without getting any security in return and reinvite your enemy back to your backyard? THAT WOULD BE LUNACY! What about after thge peace deal with Egypt? Could that have been before Oslo and before the PLO recognized Isreal's right to exist? Then it would mean that Arafat would have created a terrorist state with the intent of destroying the Jewish sovereignty of Israel proper. Would that have been rthe prudent thing to do after suffering 5 wars with Arab states? c. So we are left with the time after the PLO "recognized" Israel ( but never ammended its Charter!). During the OSLO years, more Isrealis dies from terror attacks than the years preceding it. The PA did little to crack down on terrorists. If Israel would not police GAZA, then there would have been many more innocent casualties. 3. Haas asks, what kind of talent does it take to live in a villa, while the refugees are living in squalor? Again, I can't understand her: a. The villas were not located in southern Florida, but in a war zone where the residents were bombarded by over 5,000 rockets, bombs and RPG's. b. Families were cut apart when loved ones were blown away, when children became crippled for life and/or orphaned. If communities still stayed put, would you call that kind of perseverence a talent? c. There are arabs in Gaza who live in villas. Not all Arab GAZANS ARE REFUGEES. Is it wrong for them to do so if their fellow Arabs live in squalor? d. The settlements were built where they were to buffer those places where Israel was most vulnerable to attack, and to prevent the creation of a Palestinian terror infrastructure. e. The hothouses were built against the advise of agronomists. They succeeded in the way they did because of the talent, vision and perseverance of the settlers. There are a few questions I wish Amira Haas would respond to, but I know that she won't - such as : 1. Does Israel have a right to exist? Not because the U,N, said so - I am talking about a moral right. After all, 600,000 arab refugees were created because of it. 2. Do the Palestinians have a right of return? What do you say, Ms. Haas?

Well Mr. sullivan the school year is about to begin. My son is again enrolled at "Bridge across the Wadi". The mixed jewish-Arab school. My hope is that the Jewish and Arab communities living in Israel will get along, and become friends. This is not just a dream it is slowly becoming a reality. I do not hate the Arab Israelis, by no means. Yet I feel it is important to see the situation for what it is, and face the realities. To pretend otherwise and paint the situation in black and white as the far left and far right are guilty of does not help anyone. Still awaiting your visit, you once wrote that you wanted to visit the school. I am in the book, give me a call when if ever you arrive.

Ibrahim-- You are right -- Jacob is a hypocrite. While demanding that Palestinians observe Israelis rights he refuses to acknowledge and accept Palestinian's right. Indeed, it is unconscionable to run a wall through people villages and main streets. The Israelis should have coordinated this wall at least with the Palestinians. Instead of creating all this hardship for the Palestinian people. It's so cruel and upsetting for all of us. Little wonder 150 countries voted again this war. You could say that's a wall against the world. Now I am sorry the UN ever created the State of Israel. The Israelis have been nothing but trouble for the people in the Middle East and one nightmare after another for the Palestinian people. I cannot support this dreadful state anymore...I feel it has no consideration for others. Dutch

Amira has her self-rightwous viewpoint, yet her premise is rediculous. Most of the Israeli population has served in the Israeli Defence forces. which means they have been to the territories and seen with their own eyes what is going on there. Most Israeli have seen the wall, have visited the West Bank and since this is a literate society have read heaps of literature pertaining to the situation. We are not morons, as Amira would like her readers to believe. As long as the war goes on, and as long as the Palestinians choose the most disgusting means possibleto fight it, do not expect compassion and love from us. Just as many of you do no expect the Palestinians to love us. Context, context and context again. Nothing exists in a vaccum. I am certain that if peace ever sees the light of day, the Israelis will make wonderful neighbours. but this will ot happen until the Palestinians give up their dream of a Greater Palestine incompassing Tel Aviv. I do not expect much from Amira. She is drenched in ideology, which leaves her somewhat suspect when it comes to her conclusions.

Danite. we know by now you are the perfect people. You commit no crimes, and you commit no harms and you commit no murder and you commit no theft of land and water. It may help once in a while to admit that you are less than perfect, that you continue to occupy others, and you continue to steal other's land. Yes, we know the Arab and Palestinians are not perfect and we talk about our shortcoming. I only wish that you and other perfect Zionist will admit you have done something, something wrong.

Seven bullets to the head. An English policeman kills an innocent man. Terror breeds reaction. No clear army, no clear target, just abject fear. Terror breeds fear. War for fifty years with an enemy that claims Jews are evil drinkers of non-Jewish blood. They publish the Protocols of Zion, produce telvision serials based on anti-semitic blood libels. Am I supposed to love these guys? British and American planes bombed the living crap out of Germany during the second world war, killing hundreds of thousands of German soldiers and civilians. the russians after Stalingrad rolled across Europe taking absolutely no pity on the retreating Wermacht. the Yanks after experiencing the insanity of the Kamakazees, realizing that the defeat of Japan would mean to deaths of over a million american boys, dropped the big one, war over, peace onto all mankind. Nations hav a habit of not showing a great amount of sympathy for those that attack them. Iraw attacked Iran twnety years ago, the Iranians retalliated by bombing Bagdad, over five hundred Iranians "martyrs" lost their lives, as well as hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, soldiers and innocents. Amira tells us that we are blind to what has been going on, rubbish at best. The problem is that we still see the Palestinians and their crazies as the enemy, war sucks.

Amira is an angel,israel needs more people like amira haas,how are you israelis, too blind to see the horror you are causing around you?the time has come that you open your eyes. thank you amira for your courage.

I'm disturbed by that quote that ends off the article -- "now, we will live in one big prison." It makes me want to scream, sometimes. Let me spell it out, for those Palestinians who are unable to understand this point: The day you take your responsibilities as a neighboring nation seriously -- specifically, the duty to prevent attacks by your citizens against neighboring nations -- the Israelis will quite happily open up the Philadelphi route, the airspace, and the waters of Gaza. While you bleat in revolutionary hysteria about driving out the occupiers through force of arms, you will be treated like you are an enemy to be neutralized wherever possible. Any five year old child among you should be able to understand that Israel's security is yours. If you don't want to live in a prison, why don't you try taking the prison and turning it into a refuge when the prison guards offer it to you, rather than threatening to convert it into a terror base?

"Do the Arabs show any mercy to thier adversaries? Is the genocide of Jewish Saudi tribes by Mohammad justice, or a cruel vengeance?" Don't forget to go after the Vikings and the vandals while you are it. And if I were you, I would settle scores with the Germans, now that you have the nukes. So what if it's the 21st century.

I find the hypocrisy of some Zionists somewhat amusing, though a bit sad, when they predictably use the atrocities committed against First Nations in the past, as justification for silencing any North Americans who dare criticize their atrocities and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. Americans and Canadians made horrible mistakes in the past. They learned from them and now the Native Peoples have equal citizenship rights and they are no longer being displaced from their land. The U.S. and Canada have no declared policy of "white" majority similar to Israeli's declared "Jewish" majority objectives. Stop this hypocrisy and racism and give the Palestinians of the West Bank equal citizenship rights.

I must say that as a Jew who grew up in Europe (Germany & Italy) and who lived for several years in Israel, I've been shocked and dismayed by the Settlers' pathetic crocodile tears and mesianic violence on display during the Disengagement. It makes me ashamed to be a Jew when my fellow Israeli Jews act in such an uncivilized and undignified way in front of the world. I once thought the differences between "us" and "them" were vast but now I'm worried that we (or more exactly the israelis) are becoming "them."

I suspect they are,but money ill-gotten by them from the EU weights more.

Ibrahim, if Israeli press is not free, than what is your definition of the free press ? It's certainly more free than our press here in the US, which is a lot more uniform and centrist. Also,only in Israel, Knesset (Parliament) members can hug and kiss leaders of the terrorist groups (Hizbulla's head for instance) and completely get away with that. Imagine if one of our senators or congressmen went to Afganistan and hugged and kissed Osama Bin Ladin. Israelis are freely aware what awaits them if they dare to visit their Palestinian neighbors or drive near Palestinian town They'd get maimed or killed. In any case, Palestinians should thank no one but their careless leadership for decimating Israel's left and bringing most Israelis to the right. The harsh reality is that a few years of endless murder of this latest stupid Intifada was a pure waste of human life and made no sense. I just hope to hear this more often from "the other side".

See what your own human rights group says about your humanity to non-jews in Hebron. http://www.btselem.org/english/Publications/Summaries/200507_South_Hebron.asp "Means of Expulsion: Violence, Harassment and Lawlessness Toward Palestinians in the Southern Hebron Hills In the southernmost West Bank , some one thousand Palestinians have maintained the way of life of their ancestors: living in caves and earning a living from farming and livestock. In the 1970s, the Israeli military commander declared the area a "closed military area," and for the past five years, Israel has been trying to expel them from the area. "

The atrocities of the holocaust and the alleged Palestinian abuse by Israelis are not comparable! Jews quickly recovered and moved past the holocaust and established their own country. The Palestinians wait around for international sympathizers to do all the work! Jews don't sit around and mourn the holocaust 24/7. They try to enjoy their life! The PA's fight for their goals with terrorism!

:)) Fadi, are you living in a lala land ? What else are you going to blame on the Zionism ?

what are you whining about, Gaza is evacuated, no more settlers, meaning the Arabs got what they want even though they dont deserve anything. now let me ask you this what would you like to see, seeing that you think you know alot and have an ego.

The "good Jews" refers to those who will accept facts and change the subject when it they have nothing to contribute to it. As to Israel getting what it deserves, I stand by this statement. And please, quite referring to the Palestinians as the Arabs, or are you scared even to admit that they do exist??? Israel is occupying other people's land, and until they leave those lands, Israel deserves what it gets from those people who want to live in a secure, safe and productive environment (AN ENVIRONMENT NO DIFFERENT THAN YOURS OR THE ISRAELIS. The Palestinians have every right to defend themselves from the Israeli armies anyway they can, until they get what is rightly theirs, their freedom. They don't have the luxury of living in a place so peaceful like Rhode Island, where no one stops from getting to wherever you want to go or encase you in high wall. Have a nice day.

You say: "It would be a pleasure to see Haaretz take a stand and do what CNN did to Peter Arnett remember him reporting from Iraq during the Gulf War?" But Amira is closer to journalists who supported the civil rights moevement, and as such she should be given a medle of recognition for courage.

chafeeka, had you wanted to know, you would have searched Yahoo for answers before embarassing yourself. But you are so selfish and so insensitive you build a shell around yourself, like most zionists, and you go thru life convonceing yourself what others think of you is just jew-hating and not a result of anything terrible you do to others. I will let you do your research on the more-water-for-jews laws on the web because I am tired of having to post the same information to every ignorant zionist who asks the question for the 100th time. "Name one town that has that [jewish residents-only] law?" How about all your colonies. How many non-jews live in Mali Adumem? yet few yards away, non-jews wollow in miserable conditions brought upon by Israel's crushing economic embargo and severe limitations to freedom of movement of goods and persons. See this link http://www.btselem.org/English/Publications/Summaries/199505_Policy_of_Discrimination.asp http://www.twnside.org.sg/title/twe296d.htm http://www.adl.org/presrele/IslME_62/4126_62.asp

To JS: Not only do you sound snipy and obnoxious in your reply, but BenAmi is right and you are wrong. Jewess is a derogatory term in English. Period. Yes, Hebrew is a gendered language and English is not, but her article had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that she was a female jew and the speaker was a male jew; their sexual gender does not seem to affect their discussion in any way. And you don't know that this article was originally written in Hebrew. In fact, a newspaper like Haaretz, which prides itself on it's intellectual content, should have no problem finding a competent translator for the articles it DOES need transferred to English. A competent translator would know that using the word "Jewess" is as derogatory as kike, raghead, or nigger. The article is supposed to be about the different viewpoints between one Jew and another Jew. This point would have been conveyed equally well, and without offense to 50% of the planet's Jewish population with the opener: "I want to ask you as one Jew to another Jew".

Oh, I can hear it now..all those years under oppressing occupation ;that's why we don't or can't develope a civilised society, schools, hospitals, towns etc. It will be blamed still on the evil Israelis who interestingly were fleeing oppression, dealth after WWII yet managed to develope beautiful, sophisticated society. But, the palestinians are only best at their being a victim. When will the complaining stop and the planning for growth begin? Why are there no articles about how wonderful they will make GAZA? Maybe they can find the money arafat stole and use it to feed and educate their people. Or is Israel supposed to do that for them too? Surely their rich arab brothers have not stepped up to the plate yet. I thought it was a muslim basis to help the less fortunate. Where is all that oil money from their muslim brothers?

"And dont defile histoy to make it sound like there were no Jews in israel before the 1900s.....we were there longer than you and continuously....so stop the lies and try to say one honest thing, will ya?" There is no you and me. You defile science and history when you say that. If you put your hateful ideology aside and read the study below (even though you are incapable of comeing to terms with it like many before you): The ancestry of the Palestinians http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian " Palestinian, and Sephardic populations to be particularly closely related ; a third study [12], looking at Human leukocyte antigen differences among a broad range of populations, found Palestinians to be particularly closely related to Ashkenazi and non-Ashkenazi Jews "

"The ONLY reason their is a "body count" as you mentioned is becuase arabs began an intifada!!! Thats it!! There were no targetted killings, and no checkpoint problems before your buddies decided to strap bombs to their chests!!!" You seem to only document your pain but you forget the pain you inflict on others. Selfesh of you, but that's what makes you you. As a matter of fact, since the birth of Israel, you have assasinated palestinains intellectuals who had never touched a gun or saw one except on an israeli solder. Scores of Palestinains figuers such as Bassam Sha'ka who lost both his feet to a mossad bombing. Many more were assiasinated by Israeli hit squads for being outspoken about their palestinains identity. you don't know that part about your history because you chose not to know. But the history of israeli violence against palestinains non-combatants goes wat before hamas or jihad ever existed. You just need to come to terms with your inhumanity, diffcult as it may be, since you have been raised to act and talk and walk like a victim even as you sent bombs to terminate the lives of many palestinins civilians. Just ask yourself why so many around the world including your traditional allies don't like you. Is it a conspiricy agianst you or have you gone a way too far with your inhuman ways.

"Or that it is to protect them from the seemingly uncontrolable lusts of Arab men are you? Why is the Kurdish language illegal in Syria?" Palestine is not Syria. How come I am stuck with folks on this forum who did not finish school and don't know the difference between the countries. Why do I get the ALL-BLACKS-ARE-THE-SAME type of people on this forum? THis is seems to be an israeli phenomena for even an illitirate Bengladishi farmer knows the difference between syrian and palestinains.

"There are some who hide behind a perverted idea of it and claim to be Zionists but they are similar to radical Islamists. The Kahannas and the Bin Ladens can not be allowed to claim either Zionism or Islam" I am afraid I don't agree with you. I see IDF as equivelant to Bin Laden and Talibans. Both kill to advance and protect an exclusionist ideology, and in that persuit, Alqaeda killed over 4000 people and the IDF has killed 10 times over this number. "Radicals will be defeated if we are solidly behind a just society for all people and that includes Arabs and Jews and everyone else for that matter." I agree. Are you for a one state for all its citizens jews and non-jews from dead sea to mid sea? If not, we are worlds apart because there will not be another Oslo fxup.

"There is still slavery in the Arab world" Yep, there sure is. Also in Asia. Also in the United States. And in Europe, and Latin America. And Australia. And Africa. Oh, yeah - also in Israel. www.iabolish.org

It looks like most of the good conversations are being taken over once again by the crazy hate mongers who visit Haaretz just to bash someone. I want to thank the good people who discussed this important article here today and hope that we will have a better future together minus the crazy people! Keep faith alive and speak up for peace and reconcilliation. We only loose if we are silent. Be shalom, salam to you all and thanks for the feedback.

One good thing about the Arab world is that you done need a free press to report on the abuses that take place in front of your eyes everyday. Why no response about the condition of women in the Muslim world? Are you complicite by your silence with their oppression? Or maybe they are not oppressed is that it? Please spare your Nurenburg drama, you are silent about the gross human rights violations everyday int Arab world who do you think you are to judge? Are suicide bombing legitmate? if not by your silence I find you guilty of complicity in mass murder and war crimes. Get of your high horse you are in postion to judge Israel or the Jewish people. Who do you think you are?

"One thing Niv, was able to do, that you cannot is realize fault lies on both sides." Mona, it's a misnonmer to suggest that just because there are two sides to a conflict, the truth is in middle. I think it's very arrogant of you to suggest that there is a shared responsiblility. You are a colonialist, we are not. You are a supremacist, we are not. You are an invader, we are not. One must accept that there are grear conflicts in history where the blame is not shared. Do you share the blame for what the romans, spaniards, germans, russians did to you? Give me a break and stop pretending that this is some sort of an argument between equals. You espouse a supremacist, racist, violent ideology and you have executed the plan as envivioned by Herzer flawlessly.

..... because once there is peace there will be no more money or support to North American Jews. Is this what they taught you in school? What else do they teach you? Who is giving money to support North American Jews? I think American Jews work for their money. They don't rely on others to support them. What do you think?

Tity, I've got quite a few friends here in NYC, both Christian and Muslim Arabs from places like Kuwait, Lebanon and Egypt - we all here get along just fine. Problem in the ME I think(not in Israel) is that those who are for coexistance and peace on the Arab side cannot be so vocal about it as it's often dangerous and is against the "Arab Street". Sepharadi ? Interesting. Btw, I'm part Ashkenazi part Sephardic.

I hope you had a chance to read my response to your excellent post of last night, and was hoping you could repost it if possible today in prime time. I see that you are canadian so am I.Must be soemthing about our air that leads to clear thinking! Well Regards and I enjoy your posts!

Please learn a little history!!! When the League of Nations created Lebanon, Syria, Iran, Iraq, and Saudia Arabia after conquering the Ottoman Empire in World War One they also created a "jewish Homeland" on both sides of the Jordan River. In 1924 Great Britain took away the portion east of the Jordan and gave it to the Arabs. In 1947, the United Nations voted to create two countries in what was left of the League Mandate in the area West of the Jordan. The Jews accepted this further "Land for Peace" deal. The arabs did not. In the ensuing war and its aftermath, Israel defeated six Arab armies, hundreds of thousands Arabs fled to Jordan, Lebanon and Gaza. Hundreds of thousands of Jews fled Arab countries and came to Israel. (This sounds like the post-partition of India with an excange of populations) But! the Arabs kept the Palestinian Arabs in squalid refugee camps rather than integrating them into their host countries. During the next 18 years, Jordan ruled the "West Bank" and Egypt ruled Gaza. No call was heard for self rule for the Palestinian Arbs living in those territories. The PLO was founded in 1964, and received billions fo dollars from the Oil rich Arab states. Non of this money was used to help the palestinians in The regugee camps. In 1967, israel was attacked by the Arabs yet again. She captured the "West Bank" and Gaza in that defensive war and, therefore by international law is not an occupier fo this territories. Un resolution 242 setting the terms for settling the conflict stated that Israel should give the Palestinians land that they captured in that war - all of the land, not some of the land, just land. And it is not a matter of giving back land, because the Palestinian Arabs never ruled the West Bank or Gaza. To give it back would mean to give it to Jordan or Egypt. The plight of the Arabs in the reugee camps is the the fault of their leaders who have stolen the money given to them and who have refused to increase their standard of living when thay had the means to do so. The control of the Israelis over the movement of the Palestinian Arabs is a reaction to Arab terror.

Lying, Azzam, lying. In Hebron there was only one murder - of the Jewish residents by the Palestinian Arab mob. To be honest, there were some brave souls among the Palestinian residents, some of whom managed to protect their Jewish neighbors. Herzl, Azzam (where did you get your education anyway ?) never talked about expelling anyone. Once again, you employ Goebbels' tactics, when you say "all the massacres,mass expulsions, repression, invasion". No facts listed but a bunch of words. The truth stays the same - 14,000 Israelis killed during the Independence War, a huge proportion of the population. School children murdered in Maalot. Pregnant women and children bombed by fanatic animals commiting suicide & waiting to see virgins. Children waiting to get into the discotheque are blown up to pieces - how more despicable things can get than that ? Palestinian Arabs flee (quite a few stayed by the way)following the call of their leadership, Jerusalem's Jewish population is forced out by Jordanian Arab Legion (Jews are not allowed to visit their shrines until 1967 War), Jewish inhabitants of the Arab states are forced out penniless and repressed; many murdered. Palestinians routinely attack civilians - no wonder Hamas and Islamic Jihad are declared terrorist organizations by both US and EU. Azzam, unlike people like Ibrahim and others who while being "on the other side" do, however seek peace, you seek continuation of war and further distruction. If your hope is Israel's destruction, then I can only add one thing - dream on.

I just sent a letter to Amira Hass, it was personal not for publication,I did not know how to reach her. I am new to the internet so please just send it to her. Later I might have something to send to your letters to the editor properly prepared, I certainly do not want my name and address in the paper. Shirley Benyamin

Okay back to buisness. The historians you quote are the ones which support the conclusions you have already reached about zionism, that of course is your right but it is wrong. Just the fact that that so called historian uses the terms, "the prey were helpless and the predator relentless" is a degre of editorialising that is usually considered inappropriate in academic circles. You quote their sources? Sources can be chosen and ignored cut and splices at will as you know full well. Just say it Yakov you yearn for a post zionist as its called future for Israel which you see as having reached the point of no return due to the forces inherent in Zionism. Of course all the ills of Palestinian society are purely the result of the occupation and of course the occupation is a result of the inherent greediness of zionists and their love of militarised nationalism. I am fully aware of the pathologies involved in the need for denial in order to shelter ones self serving constructs from scrutiny. I Have often said this conflict is more about psychology than politics.You have the right of free speech as everyone else does but I wish you and your fellow travelers would use it for the benfits it was intended for and not just a club on the head of Israel.

And who do you propagandise for, ronit? You are in denial. Apparently you need to be in that state to assuage whatever conscience you have left. Living in a society that has been carrying out an occupation for almost 40 years will do that. Further, I suggest you read the comments of Standish, just above, for an analysis of yourself.

Thank you for all your articles, which we have read avidly since Haaretz began its English edition. We send them to friends all over the world, and in Israel to try to oppose the"keep our eyes closed" "we know - there is nothing we can do" attitude of "liberal, educated?" friends. For thirty years we were avacado farmers on 4 dunams in Karkur with many friends along Wadi Ara, teaching English in Um el Fahm (accepted by the HS studemts and the teachers) then asked not to come by the pricipal (I think he might have been correct, we were giving the kids a sample of non typical Israeli Jews) Now in a retirement home in Jerusalem we only do small things like selling olive oil for the RHR to people in the house (you are not allowed to talk politics) They will buy cheap olive oil, or eat the tomatoes that friends bring us from Jericho) We would like to meet you if you ever have the time.. maybe here in Nofim or at the American Colony. 02 642 8692 evenings. Recently I was given a tour of the occupied territories by E Jerusalem friends and have some photos that other tourists took, would like to discuss them with youl Any way, thanks for your wonderful work, and tell Gideon levy we appreciate his work too. Not very wise about the internet, I just learned from Beate of Gush Shalom how to "talkback" Gratefully Shirley Benyamin

yaakov, put your hand on your heart and tell me what you would do with your time if the haaretz forum did not exist???

I could not bring myself to read all post. The venom and the total disregard of empathy for the other side is just too much. Go attack Amira for telling the truth. Brainwash yourself in thinking she's wrong and that the arabs have ONLY themselves to blame. Makes it so much easier doesn't it? I think with an attitude like that there will never ever be peace in the Middle East. Just a whole lot more bloodshed and injustice done to the ordinary folks on both sides of the fence

Ibrahim, It's funny how you stick "arrogance" to building of this wall. As you may know, Israeli Left had originally advocated building this wall as a way to stop the suicide bombers from penetrating Israel. It's very easy - stop suicide bombers and control your extremists and Israelis won't build any wall. Come one, what cooperation are you talking about ? For the cooperation one can get called "collaborator" and then get killed. When you talk about the "early Zionists", don't forget to mention that Mufti of Jerusalem had collaborated with the Nazis during WW2 and even helped set up Muslim Nazi Brigades to fight Allies. That, Ibrahim was even before 1948. In the Arab world THERE is constant Anti-Israel whining. Israel is blamed for all. I mean, even September 11 was blamed on Mossad and there was this stupid story about Israelis being warned beforehand. Check out Al-Jazeera - they have constant focus on Palestine/Israel In Egypt and Jordan, playwrights and actors, professionals are routinely ostracized for having any contact with Israelis. And that's countries that have diplomatic relations with Israel. Most importantly - the injustice you are talking about is the complete responsibility of Palestinian Arabs and their leaders. All the mess the world is dealing in ME has to do with the fact that in 1948 and later, Palestinian Arabs with the active help of their Arab brethen chose the path of war. Ibrahim, you seem to be living in a lala land. Did you ever know about the expulsion of Germans from Chechoslovakia, Prussia (now Poland and Russia), Crimean Tatars, Chechens and countless other people ? Palestinians, unlike so many other people in the world got a very disproportionate international help and attention, no doubt helped by their use of spectacular violence and international terrorism. Had the Kurds done the same (and if they would have powerful allies with the oil reserves) maybe they would have their own state by now. Ibrahim, there have barely been any brave people on the Palestinian side that would openly say that Palestinians had some horrible leaders, beginning with that Nazi lunatic Mufti and ending with a thief and a murderer Arafat. Are there any Palestinians or Arabs that would openly say that the 1948 War was a huge mistake ? Is there even such a thing as Arab "leftists" ?

I actually dont agree. I think that Israel needs an alternative voice,and Haaretz offers that. CNN is not an alternative media company,it is one of the foremost mainstream media companies in the United States. There are other outlets like Public Television that offer a alternative view. Israel and Jews should be proud of its democarcy,not stifle it.That is if democracy is your thing. Be Proud.Be Democratic and Free.

Go back before that everything was cool and there were no troubles between Arab Jews, Arab, Muslim and Arab Christian.

*Arab terrorism towards Jews occured WAY *before any "occupation" or even the state of *israel!!! *Arabs murdered over 65 Jews in Hebron in 1929 *for absolutely no reason!! Yes and jewish terrorism was going on before the state of Israel as well, Irgun, Stern Gang, King David Hotel etc etc. Some Jewish extremists were shooting the British in the back while the war against Hitler was still going on. *Israel becomes a state and is attacked by *EVERY arab country around them!!! That sounds *a lot like being a terrorist to me. Yes and you won created a state you could be proud of. *Israel was also attacked in 56 and 67,...all *before any so called "occupation" 1956 Bullshit, you attacked Egypt, '67 OK you got in first but they were going to attack you. The difference is after 67 you kept the land and the people. What would have happened if it had been the other way round if in 67 an Arab state had been set up which had said to the Jewish people can stay, but can not vote, no more can enter the country, etc etc would it have really have taken till the 1980's before there would have been a Jewish equivalent of the Intifada. Israel is now a powerful country, you have been at peace with Egypt for 25 years, what is left is a dispute over the land between the river and the sea, and you either have to accept you are going to keep it all in which case the palestinian residents need to become Israeli citizens or you need to get out of part of it and leave room for a viable state.

Ronit wrote "At the beginning of the Oslo "peace process", the PLO officially renounced terror and swore to resolve all conflict with Israel through peaceful negotiation" Ronit, in the meantime Israel continued to build Jewish-only colonies and settlements in the West Bank...thus blowing up the entire Oslo Accords. A country that builds settlements on occupied land doesn't want peace. Honest Jew

If blacks lived in an all white neighborhood and were being attacked by their white neighbors, would the progressive Ms. Hass evacutate the blacks so the whites could live "unoppressed" by their black neighbors? I would hope she believes that people have individual rights to live anywhere they choose, even in the "wrong" neighborhood, and the law enforcement forces would defend them from attack. The fact is that the Arabs hate the Jews and cant even tolerate a tiny one half of one percent of their population being Jewish, and did everything in their power to terrorize them to leave, until even the power vested with the supreme obligation to defend them had to give up. Our withdrawal is nothing but caving into terrorism, and has nothing whatsoever to do with giving the Arabs their rights. It is impossible to see how the eviction of the one half of one percent of the population will improve the lives of the Arabs in Gaza. Anything they do now to improve their lives could have been done with those Jews living in their midst. The Jews would have welcomed these efforts and could have helped them enormously in creating jobs and improving their standard of living. The Jews in Gaza were not at all anti-Arab, they just didnt like Kassams falling on their heads.

It would be a pleasure to see Haaretz take a stand and do what CNN did to Peter Arnett remember him reporting from Iraq during the Gulf War? all that Arnett did was appear on TV and condemn his own country and openly, publicly support the enemy in time of war. That is all! Amira Hass or Tokyo Rose is doing same!!! You see , Haaretz journalists and editors find this so troubling to understand because, for decades, their main function has been to denounce their own country and openly support the enemy in time of war. Their mantra is effectively: "The Enemy of Our Country, Right or Wrong!" Their role model has long been Lord Haw-Haw of England during the 1940s, who broadcast pro-German propaganda into Britain from Nazi Germany. They see their mission in life as serving as public relations officers for the PLO and the rest of the Arab world.

Actually Rich, First Nations in BC (British Columbia) were not as much murdered as thrown in jail (it was an indictable crime in BC for an Aboriginal to even meet to discuss land claims from 1913-1949), were deprived of the vote (until 1960), and had their children coercively removed from their homes and sent to "residential schools" run on behalf of the state by the RC Church, the United Church (mainline Protestant, similar to the US Episcopalians) and the Anglican Church who all taught/enforced a curriculum that degraded First Nation languages, culture and religion as heresy, while exalting Christianity and Empire and allowed Priests, Ministers and Nuns to not only exact corporal and inhumane punishment on any child who didn't bend to their will, but also tortured many of these children with pedophilic sexual abuse. The residential school system lasted into the 1970's and to date both the churches and the Canadian government blame each other for the situation but resist paying compensation to the adult survivors. Of course this all too brief synopsis doesn't document even half of the crimes perpetrated by Canadians Brits and Americans who flooded into BC during the goldrush against indigenous peoples. To this day, some non-aboriginal cities in BC annually celebrate: Empire Days, replete with marching bands, parades and Union Jacks. Aboriginals have to stand on the sidewalk and stare increduously at these spectacles.

Dear Jack. Off-ten times, when I read a post I don't agree with I, like all of us, get a little frustrated. Then I remember and take solace in the fact that, through forums such as these, people of all beliefs, leanings and creeds, from all corners of the world, are free to express ourselves and air our differing viewpoints. Same goes for Hass at the end of the day--I might not agree with her politics, but I respect her strength and willingness to speak out (however one-sidedly)....So, I just wanted to thank you for your comments: "...normal people are not willing to support a hateful ideology, a melange of racism, fascism, xenophobia, and ethnic particularism." ...and clarify one point: you did say you live in Europe, right? I live in Europe (okay, the UK) and last I looked, all of the above are as healthy as ever around here. Anyhow, thanks again for standing up for Europe...and normal people.

Alex, thanks for correcting me but you see Greek is my mother tongue, not English (although i think im quite capable in it) and in Greek we say Sepharadi, thats why i was confused...but thanks for the correction..its always appreciated! This is your case of the relationship between Arabs and Jews and im sorry for it, but others (many others got loads to say about how well they communicate...especially in mixed cities in Israel.

Dear settlers, thoses evacuated and those who remain, Now that you know the true nature of zionism; an uprooting ideology, - first for the Palestinian refugees - second for the Jewish comunities which lived for more than 2000 years and uprooted in less than 20 years! - third to the Jews in Gaza encouraged to settle and then forced to leave, Isn't the time to uproot the zionist ideology? Be sure, the pullout from Gaza, even if followed by pullout from West-Bank and Jerusalem or Tel-Aviv, will not lead to peace. Only justice can lead to peace, through the creation of one democratic state with equal rights for all, regardless of their religion. PEACE WILL BE THE FRUIT OF JUSTICE (Isaiah 32:17).

The Jews were uprooted by Zionism, not by the Arabs

Because Israeli citizens feel so superior to Arabs, and everyone else for that matter, and because they have a well-developed sense of denial, which is necessary to believe they are the "chosen people," they are indeed unaware of the injustice they cause. They will also deny the obvious truth reflected in Amira's writings. And also in my comment.

A funny thing happened on the way to respond to this article............ Most of the responders refute Amira's right to reprt this, or they justify this by saying how much worse it could be, or AT BEST by saying that these events are brought on the Palestinians by themselves ir thier leaders. Amira's point of this article is not only the conditions in the strip for the majority of Palestinians, but also the ignorance of the majority of Israeli' in thier responsibility to it. The responses here prove her point!! Thank you (again) Amira!!

You wrote, 90% of israelis 17 or 18 are trained to kill non jews. Are they? Are you sure, you mean there not trained to protect the state of Israel, and it's citizens from terrorists.(Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah). While doing everything possible to avoid harm to any innocent civilians. I'm pretty sure it's not a question of whether it's a jew or non jew , but whether the person is a terrorist or not a terrorist. I know writing sensational statements like "90% of israelis 17 or 18 are trained to kill non jews" is an attempt to turn one into a villian in order to dehumanize them, and make them appear less human. While in reality 99% of those serving in the israeli army are decent people who would never intentionally harm an innocent person. One thing Niv, was able to do, that you cannot is realize fault lies on both sides.

we certainly are aware of it! for many years Palestinians proved they cant be trusted as Western mind understands Trust. not doublespeak! At the beginning of the Oslo "peace process", the PLO officially renounced terror and swore to resolve all conflict with Israel through peaceful negotiation. In exchange, the entire world followed the leadership of the Israeli Left and legitimized the PLO, rescuing it from its pariah status and its exile in Tunisia, while Israel allowed the PLO to manage and govern the bulk of the Palestinian population in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. By the mid-1990s, some 95% of West Bank and Gaza Palestinians were "liberated" from Israeli "occupation" and were ruled by the oppressive Palestinian Authority. As a result of Israel's offering to allow the PLO control over the West Bank and Gaza, and Israel's willingness to acquiesce in Palestinian statehood in the medium run, the PLO and its affiliates have murdered 1300 Israelis, most of them civilians and many of them children, since foreswearing the use of violence. Proportionate to population, this is like 22 September 11ths for the United States. The world has grown so accustomed to the daily news reports of Palestinian barbarism that most have lost their shock value. the "Hamas" and "Islamic Jihad" terrorists do not really differ much from the PLO terrorists. Like the Viet Cong, the terrorists switch identities throughout the day, and "joint" PLO-Hamas atrocities have been perpetrated. When the "Black September" organization was set up and controlled directly by the PLO in the 1970s, similar disingenuous claims about the PLO's supposed lack of involvement in the plane hijackings were heard (www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/2587/black.html). In recent months, Palestinians have employed mothers of small children as suicide bombing murderers. Palestinians teenagers were last week apprehended on their way to carry out a bombing and mass murder (www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ ShowFull&cid=1078027572006&p=1006688055060). Parents of Palestinian suicide bombers routinely proclaim their pride in the atrocities carried out by their offspring (see for example http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2050414.stm ), and Israel has been too cowardly to execute or even expel these family members as deterrent to future murderers. Arafat himself (http://www.israel-wat.com/idris_eng.htm#a4) and the rest of the PLO openly celebrate the bombers, suicide murderers, and other terrorists (http://www.pmw.org.il/new/murderF.htm ). Palestinian children as young as toddlers are marched about in pride with explosives belts attached to their waists. PLO-run TV and radio each day broadcast blood-curdling nazi-like propaganda that demonizes Jews and openly exhort Palestinians to murder Jewish civilians. so to answer your post majority do not feel very sympathetic to Palesitnian plight and i must say neither are all the Arab Neighbouring countries!!

From my observations over the years, I have concluded that many Israeli Jews are extremely ingorant of the harsh reality of their occupation on Palestinian life. The Israeli Government and their "free" press has done a very good job of insulating them from these realities. Hiding the reality became much harder after 1987, when the Palestinians finally rose up and started resisting. But nonetheless, many Israelis are either completely ignorant of their actions or in deep denial.

the secret of shlaim is that he suffered a percieved snub at the hands of western jews in the state. the rest of his wretched history follows from there.his views on the palestinians are beside the point.

"if you were jewish then you would see israel or the west bank or even gaza through different eyes" I would hope and like to believe that I would not. Although for a long time I did believe the myth and was very sympathetic to Israel. Only when I moved to the ME (from the US) and saw with my own eyes did I change my mind. I can understand the reasons and the desire of the Jewish people for a homeland. But I cannot accept as "right" the way this goal was achieved. The well-being and freedom of one population should not never be achieved at the expense and suffering of another. "if as you claim you are a jordanian then freedom of the press is an experience for you and you should express what ever you believe to be true and correct" I have never claimed to be Jordanian. As I see, from the simple information that I was writing from Jordan, you jumped to that conclusion. There are many people living in Jordan who are not Jordanians. I for one am an American and all my ancestors came from Europe, not the Middle East. I fell in love with Jordan and the hospitality and kindness of its people during a visit and moved here 5 years ago. That gave me the opportunity to visit Israel, the WB and Gaza several times. "i have to say that the word truth is a huge word and we all have different truths" Again, I respectfully disagree. The truth is the truth. We may have different interpretations, colored by our experiences and environment, but truth is absolute. And the truth is that whoever created humanity ( and I believe in God, but consider all religions as ideologies that have created nothing but hatred and trouble) created all of us, not only the Jews or Arabs or whoever.... And if some of us were "chosen", it was to spread a message of love and understanding, nothing else. In my opinion, all "religions" are failures, as evidenced by their respective intolerance for those who do not follow their teachings. The truth is that each human life has equal value and that we should share the world and its resources, not try to "dominate" each other.

Have the Arabs treated non-Arab minorities with justice? Is Dhimmi second class status for Jews justice? Do the Arabs show any mercy to thier adversaries? Is the genocide of Jewish Saudi tribes by Mohammad justice, or a cruel vengeance? Does Hamas or Al Qaeda avoid targeting women or children? Are Sunni Arab insurgents in Iraq showing mercy toward Shiite and Kurdish civilians? Are Sudanese Arabs just toward Blacks? Algerian Arabs merciful to Berbers? Amira - as you defend these cruel vengeaful Arabs, a Hamas assassin is laughing at you while sharpening his dagger to extinguish yet another Jewish life.

HA...sure....dreams are free of charge!

Congratulations!

Marsham from Judenrien Jordan writes: "..the Israeli government that forbids Jews from going into the WB and Gaza." Sadly, it's so they are not killed as so many who unfortunately wondered into the West Bank in the last 5 years. Israelis were lynched, stabbed and burned alive each time with barbaric Palestinians later celebrating in the streets. As for Amira Hass who in Palestinian circles is known as their Jewish Spokeswoman has special status in the West Bank and is afforded PA protection there.

There is not one...except terrorism, honor killings, persecution, corruption...etc...