The Hebron tactic

Charlene, that's all we need from you. Another "why don't they all just get along...". I think we need action and involvement from the US of A to get something to happen and not just some cosy reflections on a 5-week holiday from the comfort of an armchair on the porch. You might want to "note" that this conflict has been going on for more than 40 years. Salam/Shalom

When I was in Israel for 5 weeks this year I noted that there is hatred and disrespect on both sides,Arab and Jew.How can tolerance and respect of one another be taught?Without this there is no piece.

"It was a Saturday morning. There were eight of us in the vehicle going to visit a relative in hospital. We didn't know about the Israeli plane overhead looking for Ahmed Dahduh [from the Islamic Jihad]. "We were talking and then suddenly something hit us. I didn't know at first what it was. "My mother, Hannan, died. My wife, Naima, and my eldest son, Muhanned, died. My youngest son Mo'men, who just turned four last week, got shrapnel wounds and so did I. My uncle died a month and 10 days later from his wounds. "My daughter Maria was thrown out of the window. She became paralysed from the neck down from the injuries to her brain and spinal cord. "She can only breathe through a ventilator hooked up to her wheelchair. She controls the chair with her chin. "Her injuries are forever, for the rest of her life." Q. The last Israeli death at the hand of a Palestinian, was, when???

I read this in a response to the article by Amira Hass with the title 'Why did you parents not hightail it to Australia' - "they would have done Israel a big favour, as you would hopefully be writing in support of aborigines, who have a legitimate claim against their white foreign occupiers." As an Australian citizen, this is offensive to me on two grounds. 1. The confiscation of Aboriginal land was mostly done before the time I was born. The continuing attempted degradations of already legally recognised land rights (such as the recently concocted child safety 'emergency') are opposed by very many Australians. 2. The tactics of harrassment as described by Amira Hass were very similar to those used by white settlers against the indigenous population anyway.

"THE LAND YOU REFER TO IS PART OF THE 1922 MANDATE THIS ALLOWS JEWS TO SETTLE ANYWHERE IN THAT TERRITORY ! THE MANDATE WAS NEVER REVOKED AND ISRAEL IS A SUCCESSOR" So then, the Palestinians are on their land illegally? If that is true when can we expect your country to evict every last Palestinian? With your massive military (with weapons supplied by my country) it should not be too much problem at all. Two thousand pound bombs and helicopter gunships are pretty good intimidation mechanisms.

"Can you understand the call for peace in the Hamas charter,The Palestinian and Fateh covenants?" They are just words as opposed to actions on the Israeli side. If Israel really wanted peace and knew that it would eventually have to negotiate over land why not halt settlement construction? Maybe you could explain it to us all.

I guess your right in a VERY unfortunate way that Clearly shows the VERY worst that democracy can bring. Just as prisoners have elections to choose a representative to the warden and have FAIR elections and can choose a murdering rapist to represent the jailmates, SO TOO can the Palestinian people elect a gov't ruled by a person who believes with the UNSHAKEABLE FAITH of 1400 years that murdering an innocent Jew in the name of Islam pleases Allah very much and even earns 70 virgins. I'd personally vote for the murdering Rapist who MAY change his ways WHEREAS Haniyeh and Hamas won't change their religous views for another 1400 years.

Mike, Palestinian society doesn't have to be carbon copy of our western democracies. The Palestinian people have their own culture and tradition and I support that their society be a reflect of them as I am pretty sure Amira does. I feel it is a grave misconception of Israelis and their apolog- ists in the West to think democracy is a one size that should fit all. There are many variations of democracy such as a democracy with a constitutional monarchy, a democracy with a federal re- public and a democracy with parliamentary systems. Today, in the Middle East there are great changing taking place among the different structures of governments there too and people need our support not our criticism and interference to develop and evolve into expressions of themselves. Dutch

/ #2 By the way no we couldn?t get a state in the 30?s the British had a clear agenda against the Jews in Palestine Israel with their white books that were all restrictions against the Jews, and their attempt to renounce the Balfor declaration! The holocaust must have juggled some screws in the British perception

Tosefta My point is that after the holocaust if Ben-Gorion would get half he got from the British mandate and the UN (with all the promises to the Jews got by the Balfor declaration that was declared twice) he would have agreed to it! It is very nice of you (you silly girl) to look at things after they happen and say O no other disaster was expected, well the no disaster is expected it is just speculated and since millions of people died in the camps and non of them could get to Israel because of the pure generosity of the British who returned those how survived the holocaust to Germany, or later on to Cyprus, they had good reason to speculate and understand that without a Jewish state no matter how big it is Jews won?t be safe! Tosefta I hope you get off your elitist tree, on this issue at least! Continued # 2

BE KIND ENOUGH AND PUT IT OUT.. THANKS

1. "You advise us to recall that according to the 1947 UN partition Resolution Israel agreed Hebron was to be the Arab state, Well Tosfata in the year 1929 their has been a massacre of the Jews in Hebron do you remember it" - Gil Gil, I hope you can develop some ability to make sense. I will try to help you today, but after that please discuss things with Logician, a poster also from Haifa. Spend some time with him or some other teacher, and try to upgrade your ability. You are telling me the story of the Hebron massacre. Suppose I never heard of it. Do you think that the people who supported the 1947 Partition Resolution remember it, or not? Of course they did, and with even more vivid colors than you do. Some may have known the victims personally. So don't bring me some "news" that were known then, come up with Yediot Acharonot. 2. "Tosfata you know very well that after the holocaust the leadership of the state that hasn?t been born yet, had one thing on their mind, and it is to get a state that Jews can live in, as fast as possible.. We had no time for negotiations" - Gil Gil, you are faking it. After the Holocaust, there was time to negotiate because no other disaster was expected for a long time. In the 30's there was no time, and people knew it, but couldn't get the state then. I am not saying that after the Holocaust the time was not opportune, but you are looking at the wrong aspect. Please develop a little more, come back when you are ready, and then we will talk.

So are you on Amira?s side or what? :)

I count Gabe as an Arab-basher and you will notice that such people are specifically excluded from the invitation. I don't respond to his diatribes because I consider them irrelevant and I don't want to get into correspondence with him on talkback. We have a more important task here.

Source: Maan News. Settlers keep out of Hebron. The Arab population will make sure you stay away. They have rotten eggs and rotten tomatoes piled up to throw at you as soon as they see your Jewish faces. They have started adding explosives among the fruit so things stay lively.

The Tosefta phenomenon depends on people reading his stuff and responding to it. I don't bother.

I had read previous words by you and been impressed that you are intelligent and well balanced and someone to talk to but you have disappointed me here. "houses are indeed being demolished, ... because these houses were constructed by badly-needing non-Jews simply because they are non-Jews." Omar you are too intelligent to believe this. Or it could simply be that I was mistaken. If so, it wouldn't be the first time.

So, in response to your "facts". Everybody just naturally BELIEVES the "determinations" of the Israeli Army investigators, don't they? I for one, believed it when they declared that the IDF soldier who put a full-clip into a 12 year old little girl, did so because she posed a threat to the continued existence of Israel. Same with the family, blown to bits on the beach in Gaza - another "threat" Then the two kids playing with their kites on the beach in Gaza - yet another "threat" eliminated by the brave IDF. AND, of course, ALL the kids who seem to be "shot between the eyes" by IDF snipers...BY ACCIDENT. Shall I go on? BTW, when was the last Israeli killed by Palestinians?

But I am not Jewish. So I may have different values.

Doesn't it bother you, Amirah that besides your shared hatred of every democratically elected government in the state of Israel you share ABSOLUTELY NO other common cause with the Palestinians or their Muslim supporters. They are further from your leftist worldview than even the MOST RIGHT-WING settler. In their stae there will be NO democracy, NO gay rights, NO minority rights, NO Jews, NO free (unintimidated)press etc. nothing you believe in EXcept for the Judenrein part.

True HannaH. Truly false or falsely true? Whichever way you read it, bum notes.

When Arabs had controll of Jewish holy sites they trashed them and locked out the Jews. Josephs tomb was desecrated by the Arabs as soon as they got the chance,that points the way,enough said.

It is unbelievable how these settlers are allowed to harass and create problems for TRUE Israelis. It is increasingly unaccepable to see how the authorities of our country look away again and again when the settlers are acting as ignorant agressive hooligans with no other purpose than making life missarable for honest people who actually try to make a positive difference for this nation. Shame on them and on them who support their black deeds.

Right-those nasty "heebs" bullying the defenseless arabs-do you think that there will come a day when Jews in Israel look at this crap and give it the attention it deserves? Or will they beat their breasts and say al cheyt with great guilt? When are the Israelis going to grow up?

You help protect our reputation from the filth that comes out of that unclean mouth. You are perceptive enough to spot the difference between a true Hannah and a defiler of the truth.

THE LAND YOU REFER TO IS PART OF THE 1922 MANDATE THIS ALLOWS JEWS TO SETTLE ANYWHERE IN THAT TERRITORY ! THE MANDATE WAS NEVER REVOKED AND ISRAEL IS A SUCCESSOR! THE WORD ILLEGAL IS AN INVENTION OF THE MEDIA AND THERE IS NO SUCH THING APPLICABLE TO JEWISH SETTLEMENTS !

The lady's opinions contain no Jewish sympathies, you're right. My late night allusiveness was unsuccessful.

I'm only repsonsible for post # 55. Tks.

Strategy of Israel is harass these people so much that they will leave Israel for good or Die. what a waste. Israel learned nothing from Nazi past. Or is it now their time to take revenge? As some Jewish people says Jews never had this good for last 2000 years.

One may ask what the hell Abbas, Fayad and their friends are doing? Why they do not spend the time denouncing these practices instead of talking about nonsenses with the occupiers? Why they do not publish to the world, every day, the suffering of the Palestinians? Do you think that they would be elected if elections take place soon? Abe

Let's look between the lines? "The older one blocked the vehicle, ...., and finally lay back on the windshield and played with the wipers, taking them apart. The driver progressed slowly down the track, and the man leaned back on the windshield with force, until it broke and shards went into the driver's eyes." A settler is on guard duty to make sure that Palestinian terrorists don't slaughter the settlers. He stands in front of the Vehicle (a relatively passive act) requesting it to stop to ask for ID, but instead of simply stopping the driver with suitable leftist journalists inside decides to make a issue out of nothing. The settle demands the vehicle stops and provides ID, after the drivers refusal the settle takes issue. The settler lies top of the vehicle to block the drivers vision, he accelerates, the settle hangs on to the wipers, the driver breaks forcefully and of course the settler's body hits the windscreen,journalist exaggerates the 'shards of glass' smell a beat up?

thank you very much amira for the article. it's proof how some jews DON'T want peace.

can't you understand? Can you understand the call for peace in the Hamas charter,The Palestinian and Fateh covenants? They are there for ALL to see.

My sources for the others are just what I stated Maan News from Hebron.

Ever since Israel and the PLO signed the Declaration of Principles in 1993, Israel has done everything to create facts on the ground to ensure that the final status issues would be permanently compromised. Dramatic increases in illegal settlement activity occurred particularly between January 2003 and June 2006 when tens of thousands of housing tenders were issued for new housing units in the West Bank illegal settlements. Most of these have occurred around Ramallah, Bethlehem, Salfit and Jerusalem. In January of this year the Jerusalem Post reported that settlement activity had increased three times the natural growth rate during the previous year. Last December Israel announced plans for a new illegal settlement in the Jordan Valley which will house 30 families who originally inhabited the illegal settlement of Gush Katif in the Gaza Strip. Whatever the case, all these illegal settlements have stripped the Palestinian of their land. Did someone say something about peace?

Unfortunately, the irrational hatred that some individuals harbor toward Israel is not going to diminish after six months. But make no mistake, the hatred is irrational.

Excellent point, Lynn. I couldn't have said it better myself.

Good messages from you, Roxana, and do keep posting. In the meantime, pay little attention to the Ha'aretz House Harpies (such as Lynn): they are concurrently quite mindless and quite harmless. Best regards, Hannah.

State your sources, Lynn: otherwise you will be suspected of being a middle-aged, histrionic zionista, spittle in the corners of your mouth in your eagerness to convince Pettari with your bits and pieces of the zionist false narrative. Sources, please!

Good point, which I'm also in agreement with. Myself, I call it 'so-called Israel'. Regards, Hannah. PS. There is an interesting article in today's World View (wvns@yahoogroups.com) today called "Revisiting 'Anti-Semitism'" by Joachim Martillo.

You are absolutely right, John. There MUST be a clear distinction made between Jews and Zionists; anti-semitism and anti-zionism. However, the zionists like the linguistic confusion that they cause by speaking for 'all Jews', creating a so-called 'home for all Jews', etc., etc. Anti-semitism in Europe, North American or elsewhere is in the interests of zionism, as they expect to gain more 'settlers' to steal even more Palestinian land, plus they can whine about it and hope to gain political sympathy. We decent and fair-minded people must support in every way that we can the decent Jews everywhere who want no part of this evil done in their name. Regards.

This is the same Amira Hass,who lived in Gaza(and of course no one slit her throat,and you would have to wonder why not). In June 2001,the Jerusalem District Court ordered Haaretz and Hass to pay 250,000 shakels for slandering the Jewish community of Hebron. Hass had reported on an incident in which Israeli Border Police killed a wanted Palestinian terrorist,Shaber Hassouna al-Husseini.Amira Hass reported that Jews from Hebron kicked,spat and danced around the dead body. Followin an investagion,the Israeli Army determined that the accusations were false.

Thank you.IF ONLY SOMEONE can collect all yjese misdeeds that are going on in THE TERRITORIES against the unfortunates Palestinians, it will be like a 4 VOLUMES BOOKS. Amira,I do know that it isn't easy to write them truths, especially under the constant insults of "few" of the Right, but nevertheless your conscience will not allow you to stay SILENT, knowing about the sufferings of these people without informing us, the outsiders to have a peep of the reality. Your and other good Reporters of HAARETZ's reporting have certainly put a break to the daily abuses. GOD is watching and one day all of you GOOD PEOPLE will earn your rewards from GOD THE ALMIGHTY.Be Patient.

/#2 Tosfata you know very well that after the holocaust the leadership of the state that hasn?t been born yet, had one thing on their mind, and it is to get a state that Jews can live in, as fast as possible and as small as one will offer, the partition Resolution was the firs operative solution and we agreed! We had no time for negotiations, of the sort (we want this, and we want that, and we deserve this and that, stuff) we had no time for it! So get the story straight!

Truly, the only decent path is to name the extremist greedy selfish misguided unwise leaders of the Hebron junta - Gush Emunin, and Kach, shame them to the dirt and rehabilitate the rest of Beth Hadassah, Tel Rumeida, Kasba, Kiryat Arba etc to decent respectable productive peaceful society. And a good and wise Iranian should perform the same operation on the crazy murderous Iran-Qom Junta. Shame them to decency and moderate them into a justice rule - civilization. So Amira can continue to expose the great injustice in Hebron, while Iranians slip into modernity without the Shia Mullahs. What a bright future is waiting for all of us.

Tosefta You advise us to recall that according to the 1947 UN partition Resolution Israel agreed Hebron was to be the Arab state, Well Tosfata in the year 1929 their has been a massacre of the Jews in Hebron do you remember it, that is the year when Hebron Jews left the city like the Kesler family a deep rotted family how have lived in Gaza from the year 1492, and have moved to Hebron after the conquest of Napoleon in the year 1799 one of the members of their family died in the massacre of 1929 the rest left the city for it wasn?t safe, in 1931 they tried to return to the city but in 1936 they were forced to leave again. So you understand that at the year 1947 there hasn?t been a Jew in Hebron till 1967 so what are you talking about the partition plan of 1947! is this your way of distorting history, telling half the truth? Continued #2

Because LillyElizabeth dana is an Arabist and no matter what is in front of her very eyes,Israel is the biggest monster in the whole wide world! No point in giving examples of the various countries you mentioned.An by golly there are so many horried ones it would take reams to put them out here. They do not either compare,or are relevant to our dear dana.Simple as that. Just a blinkered attitude,and nothing you say will alter her mind or even give it any credence whatever.Wasted breath whether she be an intelligent and an educated woman.A leopard cannot change its spots and that in a nutshell is our dana....

Truth should be the byword as you say. So, in that spirit I suggest you read Maan News, written by Pal journalists. In the Maan today, there was an article about Pals in Hebron throwing homemade bombs at settlers. I always like to find out both sides of any story. Amira forgot to mention this goes on. I thought in the spirit of your post I would. :)

I suggest that the Russian and other immigrants leave and be replaced by JEWS! "When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the lord your God." ? Torah Leviticus 19:33-34

Margie, Have you obtained permission from your boss? You know who I mean of course,don't you? I noticed yesterday(was it?)that she warned you not to consort with people who live outside Israel.Who does she think she is! Does she think she owns Israel?How dare she? But then if you want to continue to act as her "poodle"your problem.I thought it was rather patronizing to yourself to be quite honest,and you did not object to her censure.Oh well it takes all sorts I suppose.Your problem not ours. I would not have mentioned it,if it wasn't reading this post of yours just now. Buona Fortuna

being thrown at the settlers in Hebron. A small fact Maan News does mention and headline. Shame on you Amira Hass.

Wow! I go away for six months and you are still at it. The depth of your anti-Israel hatred is pretty amazing.

Pals are throwing homemade bombs at the settlers. That would make me a little angry too. No wonder they wanted to see IDs. Damn!!

Linette H I sent a response to Gill,saying perhaps Amira realized her mistake in her previous article and she is coming "clean" having read our responses before and is making amends for her error now.Of course that does not justify the her stance on the matter.Because she now admits she was in the car with the U.N personell. I have had my doubts on the veracity of the force that could not have happened in view of the difficulty of smashing a windscreen unless one terribly strong and has a heavy hammer to achieve the destruction of the windshield. Okay Amira dear,nevermind,fool us once,fine but we will not be fooled forever. Amira best regards to you,but!plea I do not ant to comment on her behaviour toward her own people versus the Palis. We have said enough about that,and since she'll never change,let "sleeping dogs"lie I say How can one change a person like Amira after all these years unless some miracle happens. Hope remains eternal I say....

by Palestinians. Jeez, no wonder the settlers harass them. Lakshmi for got to mention this part, reported by his favorite news net.

In post #73 I demostrated something well-known to biblical scholars; Rachel's grave used to be near Ramah (near today's Ramallah) but now it is "believed" to be near Bethlehem. Tradition, with the help of the Torah which was redacted relatively late (perhaps 5th Cent. BC), just changed the story a bit. In post #163 I showed how the bible "places" graves of the ancestors in the old capital city. This explains why the Torah arranged to have Abraham buried in Hebron, even though he lived his years in Beer-Sheva (where he was probably buried). Now Yishai tells me: Abraham was buried in Hebron BECAUSE THE TORAH SAYS SO. Ok, does the Torah say that YISHAI should live in Hebron? No. Oh I forgot, Adam and Eve are also buried in Hebron. How do we know that their bodies were moved from the Gan Eden area (Iraq) to Hebron? The Talmud says so. But even the Talmud does not say that Yishai should live in Hebron. "Vanity of vanities, said the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity."-Eccl. 1:2

You talk abouto the "indiginities of the Palestinians." Was this before or after they began targeting Israeli civilians with suicide bombs? If they behave like humans, maybe they'll be treated as such.

Any one wishing to discuss the Middle East and Israel can write me @ HANEM52003@Yahoo.ca Without the shrill appeasement of the Leftist Humanist Crowd. Just plain brainstorming about how to achieve a real and durable peace without CENSORSHIP!!!!!! PS Leftists welcome without their agendas even Arabists.

Thanks for your informative posts. I agree 100% with what you write. These people, who perhaps have never met a Palestinian face to face, let alone visited Palestine, paint a distorted image of Palestine and her people. This is what happens if you rely on the sometimes hysterical propaganda put out by Itamar Marcus and his Palestinian Media Watch, designed to undermine and delegitimise the just struggle of the Palestinian people at every junction. Take the Palestinian schoolbooks for instance. EU members, funding Palestinian education, as well as independent studies carried out by Israeli and Palestinian academics found that the allegations about anti-Semitism or anti-Jewish incitement in Palestinian schoolbooks were proven unfounded. But in spite of this the propagandists keep on putting out their garbage in the hope that by persisting long enough in their lies it will be taken as truth. We should never stop challenging them. Regards.

The argument about Israeli Ethnic cleansing is very impressive - you are obviously a very intelligent person. However, the foundation of your thesis is misapplied in this instance. If ethnic cleansing is your problem, why not name Chechniya, Sudan, Kashmir S.E.Asia, the former Yugoslavia, etc. all of which have an appalling record on human rights. Israel, despite being victimized by vicious propaganda financed by Arab oil money for which we are all paying, is a fully democratic country. If you doubt it, why don't you go and see for yourself?

YISHAI I THINK THIS IS A SIGNAL TO HAARETZ BY TOSEFTA! ON THE SUBJECT OF AMIRA,WHEN I CAME I THOUGHT I WAS ON ANOTHER OLD FORUM FOR A MOMENT.UNTIL I READ GILL'S COMMENTS.COULDN'T BELIEVE AMIRA IS ATILL PURSUING WITH THE SAME SUBJECT. THEN I THOUGHT YES!SHE IS COMING CLEANABOUT HER INITIAL MISTAKES AND PUTTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT,BY SAYING SHE WAS ONE OF THE PASSENGERS IN THE CAR... HAVE A NICE EVENING/DAY EVERYBODY

Stone cars and people,Lynch people,throw stones and molotov cocktails at 19 year old soldiers,do you realise their is an immense side of hatred on both sides you crazy woman???Arabs can hate,but when Jews start hating you join the Orchestra of Israel Bashers crying bloody murder????come to think about it Israel bashers actually love Jews cause they have such high expectations of them...................LOL

Gee what would happen to A Jew if he walked around Gaza???? No Guessing needed.

otherwise the peace process will be buried alongside Abraham. If indeed he really is interred there. His many children deserve better.

GIDEON :))) LEVY IS MY MAITRE A PANSE. I trust this Narcissus unreservedly.

No, you are trying to claim them by using the Hidden Imam syndrome. Imadinnerjacket talks to him every day. He is building a road for him to walk upon. Talk about a crazy group of people.

David hello Very convenient for somethings to be brushed under the carpet.Including the massacre of the Armenians...

Jews were ethnically cleansed from Arab States. Jordanians receive the death penalty if they sell property to a Jew. Talk about cleansing!! Both sides have a story to tell, not just one side. About three months ago a Palestinian sold land to settlers. He was found out, put in jail and will be killed for this transgression. So, who is cleansing whom?

Are you sure she?s purely kosher? I thought she might be purely halal.

Behind every disabled man, there are always able men. Never do anything standing that you can do sitting, or anything sitting that you can do lying down. Be not afraid of going slowly, be afraid only of standing still. Going too slow is losing a cow for the sake of a turtle. A job of a thousand posts begins with a single line.

I notice that the Norwegian foreign minister has denied Peres' claims that Norway will no longer contribute to Hamas. Good.

Thanks for your thoughtful post. I also read Meir's contribution from the Bronx and he is spot on. Many regards to both of you!

Labhras The only people who put up Mosques and plonk them right in the middle of any towns/cities all over Europe and elsewhere are the Muslims. You deny this,then you must the biggest lier there is.They are there for all to see. No Synagogues as you assume.Just show me one and I'll give you 1.000.000 sterling pounds! Surely you have them in Ireland as we already see them all over the place in the U.K.Otherwise you must blind...

From post #165 on this thread by Hannah: "And now the zionists wonder why they are considered hyenas by the rest of humanity." By what possible lapse in judgment do the Haaretz screeners allow this product of a sick and disturbed mind to be posted here? Why do they continue to do so day after day? Do they check their consciences at the door when they come to work? Hannah is obviously mentally ill. What's your excuse, Haaretz?

Dear Gill We are neither blind or unable to read.Of course we rached the same conclusion.She didn't hide it you know,and it was there for all to see.Most probably sow her mistake after reading our posts and decided the best policy was to come clean and prove that she was there in the automobile and she was one of the passengers/communicators travelling with the U.N personell after all. What I noticed though was:Why repeat the same article?Is she perhaps low on finances and needs more "lolly"? Nevetheless it is now all in the open and we can judge it accordingly. Regards to you Gill...

The kind of ' honesty ' you are talking about can only be that of Amira Hass based on fantasies and lies. ' meharesayich oumaharibayich mimech yetseou ' ,as we read in the Haftarah of last Shabbat (Isaiah XLIX 14 : 17)

I'm relatively new to Haaretz and I'm muslim and just wanted to see what Israel has to say about what's going on in Israel and Abroad. I really like Haaretz but I have been quite suprised at how much hate and racism exists in Israel (or rather Jews outside of Israel) against Arabs. If I didn't know these were jews, I'd have thought it was some crazy Arabs saying these things. By the way, I really like the diff points of view Haaretz publishes as well as different comments. Thank you

You purport,sorry.It was mere juvenile macho language and nothing else.You of course do exaggerate it into a big brawl.Nothing of the sort from what I sow.And I am the sort of person that hates lying.Straight to the point that is me... Finally,I think I can call you A CREEP! You as well as with lakshmi follow like little poodles at the coattails of Tosefta and lakshmi and now dana. SORRY BUT I CANNOT HELP BY CALLING YOU A CREEP P/S I am off to read the Irish Times now...

For a start, look at the credibility problem of Ms. Hass documented in post #1 of this thread.

There's no story here - only Amira Hass' ongoing hatred of anything religious, right-wing, pro-Israel, Zionist. This is the old dog bites man, man bites dog story...and clearly, Hass is the dog (female, of course).

Hey dana Grow up and don't obfuscate the issue. There's two sides to every story.But you as usual deny it,and clap,clap and do the "sinle shuffle"dancing,which a subtle/or not so subtle way to denigrate the so-called settlers. No matter how you embelish your responses they always come out the same.A one sided affair.Hey,are you perchance a Muslim in disguize?Makes one think you may be...

He loves to harass and bully , all the time, especially if they are jews or our friends.Like an apostate of oldin front of his new masters of the Inquistion , he quotes the talmud ,hip and thigh, to use the powers that be as the instrument by which he hopes to "teach us a lesson in humility" that he claims even Hitler tried to do but failed.Wierd stuff I tell you, really wierd stuff.Can anybody here explain the Tosefta phenomena???

To all that do not see or not will listen to what is happening in Hebron. It is holy to all of us but that doesn't say that we have to treat people-human beeings-without respect. That is what is happening every day. If you don't give respect how can you get it? I support Amira Hass that has the courage to tell everybody what is happening in that town.

Okay - looked at the site. Thanks for providing it. There are only a few cartoons from the actual textbooks, not any text, but that's fine. Much of the 'objectionable' cartoons reflect daily life. Almost every Palestinian family has a member or two in Israeli prison (often with charges pending). There are also cartoons of Palestinians building houses but then the "occupation" destroying them. I fail to see these as incitement, since whether or not such pictures are in textbooks does not negate the fact that houses are indeed being demolished, rarely because the fact that a suicide bomber came from there (without the family's beforehand knowledge) but more usually because these houses were constructed by badly-needing non-Jews simply because they are non-Jews. If we take the pictures out, will the bulldozing stop? Why I think not. It's almost interesting to me to compare Israeli books with the same level of scrutiny. Remember the recent green-line outcry?

In post #73 I demostrated something well-known to biblical scholars; Rachel's grave used to be near Ramah (near today's Ramallah) but now it is "believed" to be near Bethlehem. Tradition, with the help of the Torah which was redacted relatively late (perhaps 5th Cent. BC), just changed the story a bit. In post #163 I showed how the bible "places" graves of the ancestors in the old capital city. This explains why the Torah arranged to have Abraham buried in Hebron, even though he lived his years in Beer-Sheva (where he was probably buried). Now Yishai tells me: Abraham was buried in Hebron BECAUSE THE TORAH SAYS SO. Ok, does the Torah say that YISHAI should live in Hebron? No. Oh I forgot, Adam and Eve are also buried in Hebron. How do we know that their bodies were moved from the Gan Eden area (Iraq) to Hebron? The Talmud says so. But even the Talmud does not say that Yishai should live in Hebron. "Vanity of vanities, said the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity."-Eccl. 1:2

And that is your best and only response to the article above which brings shame upon all Jews everywhere? How do you rationalize this in terms of Judaic values? Shame on you!

DO NOT SPEAK IN MY NAME!!!!! She believes that she controls the "rest of the world". To compare you, hannibal hannah to a hyena, as you did the Israelis,would be an insult to the hyena. She also told us that she visited D'Israeli's grave in Morocco. I would not want her on meds, as it might lengthen her pathetic life.

We can move the Western Wall to Minsk as well. Then, al Quds will not be holy to us, and the Muslims can take care of it. It is fortunate that the Muslims revere al Quds, because I certainly dont. It doesnt have quality seafood restaurants. But Jewish tourists can still come from abroad and frequent the night life on Mugniyeh street (the old Sheinkin street), now named after Imad Mugniyeh

We can move the Western Wall to Minsk as well. Then, al Quds will not be holy to us, and the Muslims can take care of it. It is fortunate that the Muslims revere al Quds, because I certainly dont. It doesnt have quality seafood restaurants. But Jewish tourists can still come from abroad and frequent the night life on Mugniyeh street (the old Sheinkin street), now named after Imad Mugniyeh

The real bottom line is that aside from a few true believers like yourself, nobody accepts that the fact that some of your ancestors lived in a town three thousand years ago has any relevance on who should live there now. You might want to check the world's reaction when Serbs tried to take over Kosovo and expel its inhabitants on the basis that their ancestors lived there hundreds of years ago and the place has great religious significance to them.

And that is your best and only response to the article above which brings shame upon all Jews everywhere? How do you rationalize this in terms of Judaic values? Shame on you!

Great post, Omar. Your analysis of the systematic and collective mental illness of evil zionism is right on target. We see symptoms of that illness in most of the tedious and brain-washed zionist posts on these threads each and every day. My best regards to you and yours. al-Fatiha.

? Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.[2] ? The passage originally appeared in the ?Dialogue Held With A Certain Persian, the Worthy Mouterizes, in Anakara of Galatia?[3], written in 1391 as an expression of the views of the Byzantine emperor Manuel II Paleologus, one of the last Christian rulers before the Fall of Constantinople to the Muslim Ottoman Empire, on such issues as forced conversion, holy war, and the relationship between faith and reason

As it is written in the Jewish Bible, "The first one to plead his cause seems right, until his neighbor comes and examines him." (Proverbs 18:17)

The truth hurts these bullies - unfortunately they are proteted by our clergy who are allowed to promote Jewish mythology as supported by a significant minority of brainwashed moronic ``believers``

And that is your best and only response to the article above which brings shame upon all Jews everywhere? How do you rationalize this in terms of Judaic values? Shame on you!

Call it what it is: a European colony run by zionist extremist.

It appears that Allah is not merciful with Indrajaya and his Islamists in Indonesia. They must be doing something wrong to deserve this retribution like bashing day and night God's chosen people. Hundreds of thousands of Muslims died in other earthquakes and tsunami events in recent years in Indonesia, Pakistan, Iran, Turkey but no such thing in Israel. Some food for thought Indrajaya? Maybe changing your ways to be forgiven and given the virgins by Allah will help?

And that is your best and only response to the article above which brings shame upon all Jews everywhere? How do you rationalize this in terms of Judaic values? Shame on you!

And that is your best and only response to the article above which brings shame upon all Jews everywhere? How do you rationalize this in terms of Judaic values? Shame on you!

And that is your best and only response to the article above which brings shame upon all Jews everywhere? How do you rationalize this in terms of Judaic values? Shame on you!

It is an anti-semitic thing to call such people Jews. It is like referring to Nazi's as "Germans", referring to Taliban as "Islamic people" or referring to conquistadores as "Catholics". Call them what they are: zionist extremists.

And that is your best and only response to the article above which brings shame upon all Jews everywhere? How do you rationalize this in terms of Judaic values? Shame on you!

My only hope is that many people followed the thread and read every word that I wrote to you and every word that you wrote back. I had no doubts before we started and thanks to your every response my suspicions were confirmed beyond all doubt. Ps. I hope you got at least a fleeting moment of joy from your one-liner about "not being able to make peace with people like me" because it won't help your children or grandchildren ONE SINGLE IOTA when you can't follow the simple logic of an Israeli like me who is willing to make MASSIVE MASSIVE concessions for true peace.

And that is your best and only response to the article above which brings shame upon all Jews everywhere? How do you rationalize this in terms of Judaic values? Shame on you!

And that is your best and only response to the article above which brings shame upon all Jews everywhere? How do you rationalize this in terms of Judaic values? Shame on you!

And that is your best and only response to the article above which brings shame upon all Jews everywhere? How do you rationalize this in terms of Judaic values? Shame on you!

/#2 Tosfata you know very well that after the holocaust the leadership of the state that hasn?t been born yet, had one thing on their mind, and it is to get a state that Jews can live in, as fast as possible and as small as one will offer, the partition Resolution was the firs operative solution and we agreed! We had no time for negotiations, of the sort (we want this and we want that, and we deserve this and that, stuff)! So get the story straight!

Tosefta You advise us to recall that according to the 1947 UN partition Resolution Israel agreed Hebron was to be the Arab state, Well Tosfata in the year 1929 their has been a massacre of the Jews in Hebron do you remember it, that is the year when Hebron Jews left the city like the Kesler family a deep rotted family how have lived in Gaza from the year 1492, and have moved to Hebron after the conquest of Napoleon in the year 1799 one of the members of their family died in the massacre of 1929 the rest left the city for it wasn?t safe, in 1931 they tried to return to the city but in 1936 they were forced to leave again. So you understand that at that time there hasn?t been a Jew in Hebron till 1967 so what are you talking about the partition plan of 1947! This is your way of distorting history!!! Tosfata you know very well that after the holocaust the leadership of the state that hasn?t been born yet, had one thing on their mind, and it is continued #2

"most or all videos are provided by the palestinian media watch." i.e. Itamar Marcus' group which I told you I didn't need to see, as they are well known among Palestinians to dub over actual speeches in Arabic and then provide subtitles of the dubbed-over (fake) Arabic in English. Some of their videos are surprisingly only ever found on their website, even though they claim they got it from a purported Hamas site. Maybe you can help locate the originals? What did you not understand about "show me actual scans of Palestinian textbooks" I wonder? You said there are plenty of pages with the ACTUAL scans in Arabic. You have failed to provide any, but just shown me examples of everything I told you not to. It's very simple: all I ask if for you to provide what YOU said is readily available: xeroxed images of actual Palestinian textbook like the ones I have here so I can compare. Thanks.

If anyone who has the interests of the area at heart wishes to discuss them without the annoying filter of Haaretz deciding what is and isn't relevant please write to me at margieintelaviv@yahoo.co.uk. Please note that we're not interested in propaganda and Israel bashers or Arab bashers.

Try as you might, nothing you say changes the fact that Hebron is Judaism's 2nd holiest city after Jerusalem, that Hebron is where Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Sarah, Rivka, and Leah, in addition to Adam and Eve, are buried, where King David ruled until he was able to acquire Jerusalem, and where Jews lived almost uninterruptedly for THOUSANDS of years. As to your odd theory about where Abraham is buried, see Genesis 25:9-10. You can't get clearer than that. Bottom line- We won't trade our birthright for pottage. Hebron belongs to the nation of Israel and thus it shall remain.

Well I posted a link to a page featuring actual xerox copies of pages of palestinian school books, either it was not okayed for this forum, which I have no problem with at all, I am glad we can post at all. However, my point is that I did post such a link. Regarding Omars post #136. Maybe the post shows up?

Now you write: "I still haven`t heard if you voted Hamas or not in the last election. If you don`t respond voiciferously in the negative I`ll assume you did, and I`ll KNOW exactly where you stand." Again, you don't get it. I don't owe you any explanation or answer. The tone of your question naturally precludes my giving you an answer because I have no interest in appeasing fundamentalists or racists who erroneously believe they have moral superiority in this conflict. If your question was well intentioned, I would gladly answer it. I'm sure you will call me a coward (again), but there you have it. You are not morally qualified to ask me such a question. Oh - and thanks for the very relevant British born (Pakistani) Muslim stats. Very relevant. Don't forget to bring me stats from Zimbabwe-born Zoroastrians about their views on violence against Kangaroos while you're at it.

And that is your best and only response to the article above which brings shame upon all Jews everywhere? How do you rationalize this in terms of Judaic values? Shame on you!

..errors are doomed to repeat them...

And that is your best and only response to the article above which brings shame upon all Jews everywhere? How do you rationalize this in terms of Judaic values? Shame on you!

Amira, you are great thanks. this is something we never hear in the Pro-Israel one sided US media.

Great post, Refugee: I feel exactly the same way about Amira Hass and her truthful journalism. Post more often. Regards, Hannah.

To quote cliches: The kettle calling the pot black an old Jesus' refrain of those who cast the first stone being the worst of sinners..sure dump on Israel in their role of occupiers/conquerors harassing the "natives" --but come on -historically Israel has be saintly in comparison to other war winners throughout history --but worse than your aspersions--have the PALs not themselves behaved VERY BADLY? Defending Farfur are you? Or how about the Muslim Arab PALS "taking over" Bethleham from the Christian Arabs? That shows real love for their fellows,doesn't it-or maybe just the "normal" Muslim historical "takeover" somebody else's towns,cities,lands... LOOK AT HISTORY --their is enough sinning by Arabs and Muslims to not just single out any exaggerated Jewish malpractices GIVEN THE REALITIES. Im sure if FARFUR had indoctrinated Jewish kids to kill Arabs instead of the other way around you would be the first to raise your voice in protest. Want to BLAME--BLAME both sides AMIRA.

Here is an excerpt from a previous article by Gideon Levy on Hebron. www.haaretz.com/hasen/objects/pages/PrintArticleEn.jhtml? itemNo=623227 Every day the settlers torment their neighbors here. Every walk to school for a Palestinian child has become a journey of harassment and fear. Every shopping outing by a housewife is a journey of humiliation. Settler children kicking old women carrying baskets, settlers siccing their dogs on the elderly, garbage and feces thrown from the settlers` balconies into the courtyards of Palestinian homes, junk metal blocking the entrances of their houses, rocks thrown at any Palestinian passerby - this is the routine of life in the city. Hundreds of soldiers, border policemen and cops witness these actions and stand by idly. They occasionally exchange jokes with the rioters, and almost never stand in their way. Residents` attempts to file complaints with the police are rejected outright under various and sundry pretexts. Even when there are mass pogroms with hundreds of settlers participating - as was the case about four months ago when hundreds of settlers entered the home of Dr. Tayser Zahadi in Tel Rumeida and destroyed everything they could lay their hands on - the security forces stood on the sidelines without intervening. The rioting was documented on videotape, but no one thought to broadcast it on Israeli television. In the Tel Rumeida neighborhood, where only about a 10th of the Palestinian residents remain - 50 out of 500 families - this reality takes on monstrous proportions: The residents walk hunched over in their back yards, keeping close to the walls, whispering for fear of being heard. Children sprint home in a mad dash and neighbors move from house to house on rickety ladders. It is a haunted ghetto life - all because of a handful of rioters who live above them at the top of the neighborhood.

And that is your best and only response to the article above which brings shame upon all Jews everywhere? How do you rationalize this in terms of Judaic values? Shame on you!

its amazing that this woman with no idea of jewry tells me what jewish behaviour is ! one thing is certain labarse there is no going back to the ghetto mind ! my jewish ancestors go back 3000 years and this poster knows more than i do !! thats the laugh of the year

And that is your best and only response to the article above which shames each and every Jew? Shame on you!

Unfortunately, all of the lies are on the side of the zionists. Try to pull yourself away from your false tribal narrative long enough to clearly see and understand that you have been lied to, and you continue that zionist tradition by lying to others. However, honesty is honesty, truth is truth, facts are facts; and zionist lies are zionist lies. Sheker ayn lo raglayim!

You rhetorically ask why Amira Hass is not helping her brothers and sisters? Her brothers and sisters are the brain-washed zionists and, of course, by writing articles such as the one above, she is doing her best to remove the scales from the their eyes. Perhaps you should reread this article, and ask yourself if there is anything in your heart that can support what the zionists are doing in the name of all Jews. If you answer is 'no', then you should join with Amira Hass, and do your best to undo the zionist brainwashing which teaches that wrong is right and down is up.

Tosefta What are you talking about the CEMETERY in Hebron? As if the so-called Palestinians haven?t desecrated and smashed that cemetery before! Go check you recourses! why not, lets go and negotiate the cemetery issue it with the Palestinians, See how good is their word!!! A new experiment by Tosefta!

Great post, Dana: that is exactly how the zionists do and have operated in Palestine (cf: the Boer apartheid regime in South Africa). And now the zionists wonder why they are considered hyenas by the rest of humanity? What's wrong with their bloated image of themselves? Are they no longer selling mirrors in so-called Israel?

Here is a site which has a page called "Palestinian promotion of child martyrdom". That page contains a few links to youtube videos showing hamas etc. indoctrination / hate videos where children are used and/or is the target audience. Most or all videos are provided by the palestinian media watch. http://www.jerusalemsummit.org/eng/pmw.php?pmw=67

There is a biblical pattern related to capital cities. The old capital is a burial place, while the new capital is being used. Both the old and the new "are bought" (according to myth), or at least part is bought, by the ancestors. We know the pattern from the "history" of Judea. The old capital was Hebron, and the new capital - Jerusalem. Abraham bought a burial site in Hebron (Gen. 23), and his family was buried there. In the new capital, David bought the location of the future Temple from Arauna the Jebusite (2Sam. 24:24). The same pattern also applies to the other kingdom, of Israel. The first capital city was Shechem, and the permanent capital Samaria. Jacob bought a field in Shechem (Gen. 33:19) where Joseph was later buried, and King Omri bought the location of Samaria from Shemer (1Kings 16:24), after whom it is named. Is Abraham really buried in Hebron? Unlikely. In his days nobody knew that the city would become the old capital of Judah. He was probably had to be buried in Beer-Sheva where he lived at the time. But the (later) pattern had to be respected. Too bad. People should stick to facts. See how much we suffer today from such changes.

Many have most likely already seen this site, well if not here is the link: http://www.teachkidspeace.org/ They have a summary pdf on the bad/false teachings in the "new schoolbooks" issued 2001 by PA, one can browse to it from that site, or click it directly: www.teachkidspeace.org/reports/PalText2001.pdf.

That's suicide bombing within the UK. When it comes to suicide bombing of innocent Israeli's the number jumps. That's BRITISH BORN MUSLIMS. What do you think the HONEST stats for GAZA born Palestinians would be? Less? Yeah!Right! You are definitely a minority or dishonest. I still haven't heard if you voted Hamas or not in the last election. If you don't respond voiciferously in the negative I'll assume you did, and I'll KNOW exactly where you stand.

Amira is purely kosher. She'd never mix your pro-Israel fact with her hrrrrm (you finish the sentence yourself). :)

Sigh - let's get a few things straight: 1- Anyone who votes for - or supports - or does not condemn - an Israeli government that maintains the Israeli occupation (including a government that seeks to hold on to all of Palestine, or just to maintain the Jewish-only colonies and seeks to hold on to as much land as possible with as few Palestinians as possible, which is what current and past governments have done) is NOT morally qualified to pass judgement on Hamas. That includes you and Mike in Toronto. 2- I asked for direct scans of actual textbook pages, not the filth produced by propagandists and reproduced all over the web. You provided exactly the opposite of what I asked for. Actual Arabic scans of textbooks, please, with the questionable material. Not your Itamar Marcus-propagated garbage. 3- I reiterate: If most Israelis or their supporters consist of the likes of you, then don't pretend to be looking for peace from Palestinians when you don't want it.

Judging by the reaction of this forum, so far, to this article by Amira it seems quite evident that the lady does not seem to realise that she is making a fool of herself in continuing to give us her same all trash, as in each and every article of hers.Her hatred of Israel has affected her sanity, it seems quite obvious. I feel sorry for the lady

First, you smear the reporter (thereby avoiding addressing the issue at hand.) Then you present the bullies as the victims. Then - if the second step doesn't have a positive effect - you use God as the real estate agent of choice. Needles to say - if the Palestinians get pissed off and react aggressively - you accuse them of being "islamo-fascists." Don't forget the zionists slogans: 1. All is not enough. 2. Pay attention to what we say - NOT what we do. 3. Mine is mine - yours is negotiable (at the point of a Merkeeva tank!)

disinformation from?Canada does have some fairly decent papers like The Globe & Mail,unless they have all been overcome by the Canadian version of AIPAC.The Palestinians voted Hamas in because they were an incorrupt party,unlike the fatah.Hamas did very well in honouring their committments,joined the Unity Government & agreed to the Mecca Summit & have gone out of their way to recognise the Arab Initiative.Times have changed since right wing papers talked about 'terrorists' in the same way they talked about Nelson Mandela & the ANC.Hamas is doing an excellent job in maintaing law & order,after cleaning out the garbage first.There is a piece in Washington Post(June 28,2007)by Haniyeh's advisor Ahmed Yusuf 'Engage with Hamas'.They want self determination,evolution of civil society,economic development,free markets etc.If you want a more recent account there is one in Time magazine,'A Sort of Peace in Gaza'(Aug.6.2007).All visitors to Gaza have testified to the law and order situation.

hehe still busy wading in the dung are you and showing all of us how light-headed you are. 500 Jews living in Hevron manage to make life miserable for 120,000 Arabs oh my, alas, oy vay, those 500 surround the 120,000 and box them in, gritting their teeth and pulling oh so tight...man there isn't just ONE SUPER SETTLER there's more of them...oh noooo. Ahh the Zoopencleaner talks about the "Jewish Sector" where there were "only" THIRTY THOUSAND Arabs and wait for it...yes yes...FIVE HUNDRED Jews and....here he comes SUPER SETTLER who all by himself flew about and frightened THIRTY THOUSAND Arabs in the "Jewish sector". hehe keep on sniffing your dung. yeah yeah yeah do the occupation shuffle

There are usually two sides to a story. Miss Hass conveniently forgets that Palestinian education routinely fosters hate, killing and more hate - all the infidels must be destroyed. Perhaps ms Hass does not go to the West Bank is because she too might become a victim of a Palestinian Arab suicide bomber (as collatoral damage!)

The West Bank is an integral part of the Land of Israel, the Homeland of the Jewish people.There are no such a thing as ' illegal settlements ' in Eretz Yisrael and there has never been an independent Palestinian state as such. The Arab leaders rejected the 1947 UN Partition Plan for a state of their own- why ?because they were not and are not interested in a Palestinian state - it is the destruction of the Sovereign State of Israel they are still dreaming to achieve, as the President of Iran keeps on reminding the whole world.So, if they have to wait another 30 years or 300 years for a state ,so what ? is Hamas a capable government to govern their own state ? look what is happening in Gaza, they are killing each other and how can any country live in peace with gangs of terrorists ?

Natalie, Yes, Amira speaks the truth and so did all the previous American presidents dating back to Eisenhower when they told Israeli officials to stop creating facts on the ground-and still those foolish leaders went on and now the human horror they have created threatens their palece in the Middle East today. Israelis better put their foot down before they won't have one themselves. Dutch

You are why i love Iranian women - beatiful and smart. lets meet for subzi.

Amirah, you are ONE light to the nations amidst the blight to the nations that is this chillul haShem squatting in Hebron ! Keep shining ! David

Quite simply put Big-OT, Jewish behaviour is the opposite to all that you do and think. Regards

Do you take us all for fools? It's as clear as day, and a sunny one at that. Even the UN and EU who treat Israel differently than they treat ANY OTHER COUNTRY on Earth, have an active file on Palestinian Textbooks and their unending harm.

There are only two words that should be used to describe these Hebron settlers - scum or terrorists or both. Take your choice. I already have. They are both and must be removed, by force if necessary.

"And even if Abraham did move to Beersheva, obviously he never intended to jettison his connection with Hebron. That`s why he bought the Ma`arat Hamachpela, buried his wife Sarah there (NOT his conciubines like Hagar, Ishmael`s mother), and passed on Hebron`s importance to his son Isaac, who did the same, and he did to his son, Jacob- who also did the same.. Even when we are forced to leave for one reason or another, we ALWAYS return." - Yishai Kohen We can uphold the Hebron pattern. We will die elsewhere and then have our remains shipped to and buried in Hebron. All those ancients buried there died ELSEWHERE. I don't think that the Palestinians will object to kepping an expanded cemetery reserved for dead Jews. P.S. As a Kohen I don't know if you can enter the cave, but you can certaily get buried in the local cemetery.

Your response to Mike in Toronto is lame and cowardly. What do you have to say to me who agrees and repeats what he asked you? DID YOU VOTE HAMAS IN THE LAST ELECTION If you did Shame on you and you have no right to preach to anyone because you are part of the problem. If you didn`t, good for you, but you`ve got to go out and preach peace so a fanatic evil Hamas stops ruining the future of the Palestinian people. I can`t blame you if you don`t though Hamas would probably slaughter you within 48 hours of your publicly condeming them.

You keep successfully showing how unreasonable the radicals are who post here.

The endless patronizing hypocracy of the Left is amazing. If the situation had been reversed, and it was Palestinians abusing Jews(as is more typical)their appologists would excuse their behaviour as the product of "opression" or "occupation." Has itever occurred to these useful idiots that Jews feel oppressed by endless Arab violence and land theft and thus react (Hebron has been owned by Jews for 5oo years)?

He must have hidden the uprooted olive tree somewhere because he had to break the windshield with his fingers.

I look here and I look there and I read Atilla everywhere! Glib is his flirt as he gleans girls. The sparks of love hurl throughout the Earth, when Atilla dear is "on air". I thought I was "the one", but now I see, my hopes are gone! If you want to know what mends a broken heart, then send me some chocolate and I will be done with my blue....and you! Sigh!

You wrote "If all Palestinians were like you maybe there would have been peace EVEN before the excuse of Occupied territories which is realtively NEW." Actually, most Palestinians are like me - but even if they are not, I can tell you that if 100% of Palestinians were like me there still wouldn't be peace because, unfortunatly, most Israelis are very much like you!!

Hello, Margie. I hadnt realized that she uses the information given by the contributors I hope she can see my posts about the pal children killed yesterday in Gaza, the qassam that fell on the Israeli school and the checkpoints and roadblocks deployed by the pals. :) Regards

You wrote: "If you did (vote for Hamas) Shame on you and you have no right to preach to anyone because you are part of the problem." Well Mike, as somebody in Canada, you have absolutely no right to preach to anyone because you are NOT part of the problem. If you had been living in Palestine or Israel and had intimate knowledge of what BOTH peoples have to live through, that's something else. But pontificating from Toronto is quite arrogant I'm sorry to say, and you actually don't get any right to tell an actual Palestinian in Palestine what he may or may not preach. You take care of yourself in Canada and don't pretend to know about who gets slaughtered more in Palestine and by whom (hint: it's not by Hamas).

Yes, Johnny in Sweden (hint, that's not anywhere near Palestine). I would like you to show my those web pages - the actual xerox copies you are talking about. I don't want to see pages 'about' the textbooks, or alleged 'translations' of the textbooks. I want to see the actual Arabic textbooks (and I assume you are fluent in Arabic because you seem sure of what you are talking about). So again, send me these alleged scans of the actual pages and then I can respond. Don't send me any unsupported crap from Itamar Marcus' group or other such invented garbage. If you cannot produce an actual Palestinian (note: PALESTINIAN) textbook copy, then just refrain from addressing my posts in the future).

"Furthermore, the lady does not realise how silly she is in trying to sabotage all the genuine efforts for peace on the part of Israel" Genuine peace efforts by Israel is an oximoron. Already the re-tread ex-General now Defense Minister Ehud Barak is saying that there may be a 3 to 5 year delay in turning over the West Bank because Israel needs a anti-missile put in place. 3 to 5 years should be plenty of time to expand the illegal settlements even further.

Dear Amira has a little trick up her sleeve. (Look no cards) She reads the comments from the first column and cunningly incorporates all the additional bits of information and smoooooths out all the cracks we noticed the first time. So her number two version is so much smoother and more believeable than the first one. She is certain we are all so dim brained that we won't remember we saw exactly the same column yesterday with tiny little bits of different details that make all the difference. This is called playing to one's audience.

In Israel we would never have a zoo-keeper who abused poor bunnies as this one attempts to abuse our dear Peter Rabbit. As if abusing bunnies weren't bad enough, here he is misusing the word 'pogrom' known to every reader of Russian-Jewish sagas as meaning killing and looting and rape. Dear zookeeper it's time for you to find a new profession. (Shocked) Animal Rights Activist

Thank goodness for Amira Hass. One if the few Israeli journalists who provide a wider perspective of what is happening in the occupied areas. The duplicity of the Israeli government is made clear and the political power of the settlers is shown to be a major obstacle to peace.

As you can see us the Jews are always ready to discuss our issues, accept our mistakes and apologize. However in the Islamic world including Turkey self criticism and apology is none existent. All mistakes and the wrongs of Islam are always to be blamed on Israel and USA. After 90 years Turkey still did not apologize to the Armenians who were uprooted from their homes, the none Muslims whose properties were taken from them in 1941 varlik vergisi were never returned. I know you will be angry to hear these but this is what differs Israel from Turkey. We can openly discuss our deeds good or bad.

"without shame they continue to claim that ONE HUNDRED families living in the midst of ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY THOUSAND Arabs are able to terrorize and bring them to their knees." -Peter Rabbit Peter Rabbit, you mind is all mixed up. Have you eaten today? Better come back home to the zoo! What 120,000 Arabs? This is the Arab sector (H1), dumb rabbit. In the "Jewish" sector there were only 30,000 Arabs, and most of them have left. There were not only armed settlers there but also military people protecting them, imposing extended curfews for their benefit, closing down stores, and other types of intolerable hardships. And then the settlers with their stone throwing and pogroms. Peter Rabbit, you are not yet fit for debate. Come back, get fed, develop your brain some more, and then go back to the wild.

Tosefta, Just as Hebron is an INTRINSIC part of our past, SO IT IS AN INTRINSIC part of our present AND future. David moved our capital to Jerusalem not because Hebron isn't holy, but because Jerusalem is HOLIER. And even if Abraham did move to Beersheva, obviously he never intended to jettison his connection with Hebron. That's why he bought the Ma'arat Hamachpela, buried his wife Sarah there (NOT his conciubines like Hagar, Ishmael's mother), and passed on Hebron's importance to his son Isaac, who did the same, and he did to his son, Jacob- who also did the same. Why do you think that there has been aJewish presence in Hebron for THOUSANDS of years? Even when we are forced to leave for one reason or another, we ALWAYS return. THIS is the pattern to observe. If the Arabs can't live with Jews, then THEY have to leave our land- not us.

They should have published photos or a video of the incident.

IF ONLY (again) IF ONLY the Palestinians would treat the jews in Israel as badly as the settlers in Hebron treat the Arabs. Unfortunately the acts of the Palestinians don't even fit on the same scale as the "evil" Jewish Hebronites. Stop focussing on the Israeli's Pinky hangnail, and deal with the multi-organ cancer of Islamic Fascist Terror.

Another tactic consists of publishing the same article more than once to make the readers believe these incidents are frequent and that the so-called settlers are jumping on all the UN cars and breaking their windshields. This article has been published twice in a row.

Even when the guy just said to the other: ?Go back to where you came from?. Pal terrorists never say to you ?Go back to where you came from? but kill you, which does not terrorize Amira.

Yes mrs. Hass, this time you ar porbably right. Hebon is equivalent with fanatism, extremism. On the other hand do not forget that for thousands of yours Jewish people have lived in Hebron.

Mr. Kohne, if one wishes to speak of aliyot l'Yerushalim, then one had to leave hebron which is higher in elevation. Besides, the winter weather in Hebron is even more severe than Jerusalem, so people decided to leave for the south or coastal plain. Climate, mr k,ohen, climate. These squatters have no rights to be where they are and must be expelled. All they have brought is ill will, dissention and hatred. They must be returned to where ever they came from. They are criminals in the present asnd a dishonour and disgrace to the past.

is it reminiscent of the east european ghettos 100 years ago ?

Israel will only survive if there are more like Amira and far less like the lowlifes who barred their way.

If you did Shame on you and you have no right to preach to anyone because you are part of the problem. If you didn't, good for you, but you've got to go out and preach peace so a fanatic evil Hamas stops ruining the future of the Palestinian people. I can't blame you if you don't though Hamas would probably slaughter you within 48 hours of your publicly condeming them.

Omar you wrote: "..am Palestinian, and was never "indocrinated" as you claim. I can attest that my kids aren`t either, nor are any of their friends" Well maybe that is true. It can also be the case that you never went to school. Your kids could also have been depribved of school teachings. That would explain it. See we - people from the west who are not muslim apologetics - can easily check what you learn in your schools. There are web-sites showing what your schoolboooks contain. Not just quotations, but actual full xerox copies of pages. And the picture is very clear, you are getting indoctrinated in your schools. Maybe some aren't but most are. You don't know that of course, that is what indoctrination does.

Antis must try always to be extrema antis, so there will be no confusion: every one remains in his place. The revolutionary wants everything to be on its place.

He's right! your present is empty so you attempt to re-create a past! History! History! what a nonesense! Persian empire was a vast and poweful one, but we're not trying to claim those lands by force and by demolishing houses and farms just because our ancestors lived there many years ago!

Israel has nothing to gain from negotiating with you and your 30 percent who have a "secular" outlook" regarding the murder of innocent jews and infidels. You know that 7 out of 10 Immams in the Middle East do NOT believe that murdering an infidel is WRONG in the eyes of Allah. If all Palestinians were like you maybe there would have been peace EVEN before the excuse of Occupied territories which is realtively NEW. What are you going to do about your neighbours kids, so that your children won't suffer?!? Israel has every right to defend itself and stop making sacrifices and concessions to all the palestinian UNLIKE you, who couldn't care less if ALL the jews in Israel lived in one Kibbutz on 30 SQUARE KM. They'd still terrorize and be supported by the GREAT MAJORITY OF THE PALESTINIAN IN THE STREET. To compare any gov't in the history of Israel to the PEOPLE VOTED MURDEROUS HAMAS is a completely invalid comparison by ANY STANDARD.

"I vote for this idea. May mollify the settlers." - Tosefta Nice try. Nothing will satisfy them until Israel rules from the Nile to the Euphrates and all of the untermench within it's boundaries have been expelled or expunged.

"There was an opportunity to evacuate Hebron right after the Baruch Goldstein massacre when the Israeli public was stunned, but Rabin failed to seize the opportunity." - Tosefta For which the religious fanatics repaid Rabin with bullets. That is why Olmert will never do anything more than a bit of window-dressing in Hebron. A well publicized police action will be followed by more acquiescence. The chances that there could be some settlement based upon the satisfaction of the demand by the US and Israel that the PA overthrow the Hamas government has just about passed. One can only wonder, based upon the ever so measured baby-steps of the Olmert government whether there was a 'chance' or in fact that as far as the government was concerned the "mission" had been "accomplished" with the semi-failed coup against Hamas.

"Hebron is where our forefathers lived, Hebron is where King David first ruled, Hebron is where Jews lived almost uninterruptedly for THOUSANDS of years, and where we will continue to live in the future." - Yishai K Mr. Kohen, I was claiming that Hebron represents the PAST. It was true even in biblical days. David LEFT Hebron, and moved on to Jerusalem. We know almost nothing about Hebron as his early capital city, but we know a lot about Jerusalem. Abraham spent his early years in Canaan near Hebron, but then LEFT it and moved on to Beer-Sheva. Why do you think living people kept LEAVING Hebron and moving on? I don't have the answer myself (although I speculate). But this is the pattern. There is no need to erase Jewish history. Israel spent time in Egypt, but we don't go back. Jews spent time and shed their blood in Europe, but we don't need to live there. The fact that Jews lived in Hebron, and some are buried there, does not mean that WE need to live there. If some people prefer to be buried there, a nice Jewish cemetery can probably be negotiated with the Palestinians.

It's in a frame on the wall How could I forget? eat an icecream with chocolate sauce wear a flower behind your ear Enjoy your day Margie

Goodness Ken, what a story about Amira Hass! Well it seems it did no harm to her job with Haaretz because they still accept her posts without question. This particular story was silly and dubious and neither was it anywhere near being a terrifying incident....about two young men up to some pranks, no more no less.

guys :) this is last joke. you know how much smart I am :) I never need talk serious to give my messages out. I borned with three jew brains :) thats the reason All Jews love me to see me as a next PM of Israel. serious. this is no joke. wote for me, than be happy. Atilla liman Karagözoğlu Prime Minister of Israel (Look great)

I expect Don C to cry out WE ARE SPARTANS at any moment, oh but that was 300 not 500, my bad. It is not an enviable job these arabist apologists have, forced into a situation where without shame they continue to claim that ONE HUNDRED families living in the midst of ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY THOUSAND Arabs are able to terrorize and bring them to their knees. Oh I get it, here he comes.....it's SUPER SETTLER on the rampage....single handedly leaping olive trees, leaping markets, leaping UN vehicles, traipsing on the heads of ISM yes yes it's....SUPER SETTLER tzitzit and payot flying in the wind, his 18 clips holding his kipah in place, yes yes there he is...amira found him, Don C saw him, really really it's true, it's true. Five Hundred Jews living amongst One Hundred and Twenty Thousand Arabs, frightful isn't it.

You write "The fact that Palestinian toddlers like many other Arabs in the Middle-East are indoctrinated ..." 1- It's funny that you are talking about Palestinian children being indocrinated when you are faced with facts in this article above about messianic British and American Jews who suffer from no less worse "indocrination" from what you describe. 2- I am Palestinian, and was never "indocrinated" as you claim. I can attest that my kids aren't either, nor are any of their friends. Believe what you want to believe (I'm sure you will), but don't dare pretend to know about us more than we know about ourselves. You're not qualified. 3- In the 1995 election for 'president' of the PA, Mustafa Barghouti (former communist and known atheist, not to be confused with Marwan) got 19% of the national vote (second to Abbas) and 50% of the vote here in Ramallah. So don't talk to me about religious fundamentalism, just address your own faults. Okay? You Israelis clearly know nothing about us.

Search in YouTube for "rumeida" or "Hebron" and "settlers" and you'll find many examples of their shameful unJewish behaviour

Hannah, Clickfool, please, you know my style, my stance.. dont trust these fake Indrajaya disturb our unity.. we are a diminute group of people against a sea of zionists... let's stay togheter now...

This story somehow remind me of all the bullying in East Timor. The difference is that we could not afford free press to reflect our indignity. Although my hate for Israel, I have to praise the democratic values of Eretz Ysrael.

Look Margie ! that was a joke. I only ask you to merry me ! but not now ! later ? just dont forget me, please :) Atilla Liman Karagözoğlu

Give me a break. If she is so fond of the truth, why does he never inform about pal and Israeli children murdered by the pals?

Margie Barbie :) You know her, right ! most beautifull poster of all univerce news sites ! too much love from Istanbul to Tel Aviv. Atilla Karagözoğlu Note : haaretz ! I love you more than anything in this world :)

Stop printing articles written by Amira Hass. This biased garbage belongs in Aljazeera, not here.

Dear Natallie Durson, having recently studied Mideast Ancient and Modern History, the conclusion reached is that there can never be real peace in the region while these two peoples Arab and Jew live 'side by side'. The hatred and animosity is far beyond anything anyone can imagine and in fact, especially on the Arab side when Palestinian children learn to sing songs or recite poems with that very theme in mind. Why can not Arab Leaders see this and in fact, if they REALLY wanted to see peace for their people and a Jewish Homeland existing for the Jewish people, they would surely make a little space in their vast territory to build another 'Dubai' for those, their very own people who emerged from their very own land? They have the money, the means and the Oil.

they are both residents of cloud cuckoo land ! i bet neither could boil an egg ?

Which tactics do they use? Their jihadist authorities are terrists and their goal is to occupy al the Jews? land. Many pals use the same tactics as their authorities. Why is this right for pals whereas it is wrong for jews to break an olive tree, in the case it is not the pals themselves who do it?

Most incoherent post I ever saw.Do you suggest giving Jewish property pre-1947 to the murderers of Jews and their descendants?

My Loveeeeee this only true in my life .... (I dont remember this part) my first love you are every breath that I take you areeee every step I makeeeee.... ohhhh ohhh..yess you will always be MY ENDLESS LOVE :) Performed By Brook Shields in the movie called "endless love" Love ?

Another tactic consists of publishing the same article more than once to make the readers believe these incidents are frequent and that the so-called settlers are jumping on all the UN cars and breaking their windshields. This article has been published twice in a row.

Did the settler have an uprooted Olive tree in his hand?

Somehow I don't think the police would buy it if I told them Arabs deliberately slammed themselves through my windshield.

everyone already knows it

Good question. No, not the proposal, silly The other one Greetings and salutations Margie

Damn ! I give best reports :) Amira Atilla Karagözoğlu

Israel treats it's occupied ACTIVE enemy with kinder hands than any other nation has treated its AGGRESIVE OFFENSIVE enemy in the LAST 5000 YEARS OF RECORDED HISTORY. If you disagree with this than you are ignorant of world history and the history of land demarcation and the history of warfare. The fact that Palestinian toddlers like many other Arabs in the Middle-East are indoctrinated with the Wholehearted belief (without a single ounce of religous scepticism) that murdering an Israeli Jew Even a woman or child eating pizza, pleases Allah and earns reward in heaven. That is 99% of the problem if not 99.9%. Amira Haas and her supporters totally focus on the 1% of the problem which is Israel's DEFENSIVE RESPONE to the results of the Faithbased indoctrination of arab children. This is why there was Palestinian terror LONG LONG LONG before the 1967 war and the "occupied territories. The ones who will suffer most from ignoring the REAL cause, IS THE PALESTINIAN CHILDREN THEMSELVES.

damn ! its cool :) Atilla Karagözoğlu

Hello Amira, The Palestinian people have my uttermost sympathy dealing with such deplorable people who show a lack a common decency and respect for their neighbors rights. What a soulless center the civil administration has become too. You would think they would know better and put a stop to this injustice. Where is their good conscience? More directly--do they have any? ( I am sorry -- it just looks like that.) Dutch

It isn't just about moving graves: Hebron is where our forefathers lived, Hebron is where King David first ruled, Hebron is where Jews lived almost uninterruptedly for THOUSANDS of years, and where we will continue to live in the future. Your attempts to erase our history- as well as our present and future, will come to naught. But if moving things is that simple for you, then we can always move the Dome of the Rock and al-Aqsa to Mecca where they belong; for the sake of peace.

Please. Amira for PM of Israel.

posters ! look what you did to me ! Amira ! just one thing I need to understand ! are you a Jew or an Arab ? Atilla Karagözoğlu

"The Jews are also very kind. We let Christians build a church plonk in the middle of the Jewish town Tiberias." -- good grief. let them eat cake...

good subject words, right :) Atilla Karagözoğlu

They speak about human right problems in Australia etc like that would make the settlers behaviour right /understandable in Jerusalem and in West Bank. What if Hitler would have said that it is OK what we do because it has been done before elsewhere? If Jews as a religion and race take the right to approve ethnic cleansing when they themselves do that, they must also approve the same behaviour when Jews are the target.

YOU ARE ALL AMIRAS :) GUYS ! I see you are all wasting your time. Stop it please. DONT DISCOVER AMERICA AGAIN ! Atilla Karagözoğlu

I will call police if you dont stop that. Atilla Karagözoğlu

there will be a genuine border and such incidents (real, imaginary or exaggerated) will be a thing of the past. Amira will presumably be redundant by then because the truly bad treatment the Philistine population will be receiving will be coming from their own brutal thug leadership (whether corrupt secular power-seekers, Arab Nationalists or Jihadists), all of whom are seemingly above Amira's criticism.

Ken Jurist , I would take Amira's word any day over the one sided Israeli court and it is possible the camera man failed to pick up the events Amira witnessed and reported. I have read numerous reports from the territiories over the years and heard from eye witness and victims about such treated at the hands of the Israeli settlers. In addition, it seems the early settlers were prone to such behavior as Ahad Ha"Am noted in his Truth from Palestine pamphlet in 1891: "The Jewish settlers treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, trespass unjustly, beat them shamelessly for no sufficient reason, and even take pride in doing so." Dutch

Isn't it the truth that in 1948 that's exactly what happened? with a larger scale and more unspeakable, loathsome and gruesome actions, by gangs like the Hagana? Isn't it the truth that since this Israeli state was built, it brought nothing but distruction and it showed nothing but misconduct? Isn't it the truth that Palestinians pay by their blood for the mistakes of others? " Holocaust" Isn't it the truth that terror raises terror? Isn't it the truth that suicide bombings and rockets lauchers are nothing but an Israeli deed? Isn't it the truth that all the palestinian factions ask for the rights Israel agreed to years ago, but doesn't agree to anymore, because of the Israeli greed and the --I got that, why not get this--attitude? Isn't the truth that Hamas is the perfect opponent, with the perfect idiology for a state with such disposition?

jumbled and inoonclusive. The car was being driven away with the Britisher sitting by the shattering window shield when 'suddenly a younger man appeared...." ! from where? One was a Briton, known as a troublemaker from a previous incident. So, let's taKe a look at the recent shocking new documentary which appeared on British television recently entitled " The War on Britain's Jews" which makes it 'Open Season on the Jews'. So let's have a free bash at them! say they. Just think for a moment and ask. is the Muslim Minority in Britain today not leadng the way? I would not blame these two young men. A little 'tit for tat' does no harm sometimes, olive trees or no olive trees.

For those who are constantly churning up 1929 as if it were the only yr in the history of Hebron, they should realise that those Jews massacred there were balanced out by the 29 Muslims murdered by Goldstein. For tose caught up in the revenge game, the slate is clean. Noew it is time for the Israeli government to do what it should have yrs ago and that is to move out all of those colonists from the old city of Hebron. of course Jews should be allowed in Hebron, but only those who wish to live as neighbours.

If Jews have to leave Hebron, they can still move the Cave of the Patriarchs with them, so who needs Hebron? Sounds strange? But this is what happened to Rachel`s grave, already in biblical times (moved, perhaps after the exile). According to the biblical story, which appears to lack ideological undertones, Rachel`s grave was on the border between the tribes Benjamin and Ephraim (see 1Sam. 10:2). This even makes sense because Rachel was the mother of Joseph (father of Ephraim) and Benjamin. The place was in today`s Ramallah, as we learn from Jeremiah 31:15 "A voice is heard in Ramah, mourning and great weeping, Rachel weeping for her children and refusing to be comforted, because her children are no more." The town of Ramah is near Ramallah and that is were Rachel`s weeping was heard, because she was buried nearby. Today, and already in the Torah (redacted late, perhaps 5th Cent. BC), the grave is near Bethlehem, in the tribal area of Judah. What business does Rachel have in Judah; she was not his mother! Apparently, once Judah took over, or perhaps after the exile of the ten tribes, the Judeans "stole" the grave, i.e., they changed the story to have Rachel buried in their area. We can do the same today. Abraham`s main station was in Beer-Sheva, so this must be where he buried his wife, etc. No doubt, there will be some old Arabic structure that could serve as some indicator of an old grave. I vote for this idea. May mollify the settlers.

It is first good to recall that according to the 1947 UN Partition Resolution which Israel agreed too, Hebron was to be part of the Arab state, unlike Jerusalem which was to be an international city. The Zionist Jews actually agreed to give up on Hebron (as well as on the Etzion block, for that matter). What is the importance of Hebron for the Jews? Hebron was the capital city of the tribe of Judah. King David was crowned there as King of United Israel, but then captured and moved to Jerusalem, which remained the capital of the Jews since then. So why is Hebron important? Well, according to the Biblical account, Abraham and the other Patriarchs and wives are buried there. This is a value of the "past" type, not the "future". Are Braslav Hasidim distressed that Uman is in the Ukraine? They come to visit for the High-Holidays and then return home to their countries. And what about the Messiah buried in New York City? After the ressurection of the dead he will move to Israel. We are lucky that Muslims revere Abraham. They did, and will, take good care of his resting place. And they will be interested in Jewish tourists that will come to pray and pay their respects. We should move onward to the future.

You wrote----"The Jews are also very kind. We let Christians build a church plonk in the middle of the Jewish town Tiberias." I am confused. I thought Being a Jew is an ethnic claim but you dispute that by your statement, that Jewish kindness allowed a "Christian" Church Plonk in the middle of a Jewish town. Can you clarify. Some food for thought for you. Kind people all over the world allow Synagogues "plonk"in the middle of their respective cities.Do you consider that "Kindness". Thought not.

Hebron, Kiryat Arba, and neighborhood house the most fanatical settlers, including the chief meshugga Rabbi Levinger. They should be the first to get evacuated because when they get broken, the other settlers will lose some heart. There was an opportunity to evacuate Hebron right after the Baruch Goldstein massacre when the Israeli public was stunned, but Rabin failed to seize the opportunity. If some other crazy thing happens with them, don't miss the chance.

I wonder why Amira Hass considers terror what those people did and must not consider terror what the pals do to the Israelis. I suppose she does not consider terror the suicide bombers and the qassams, since I have never seen her criticize these actions.

Why is it that Zionists won't accept any claim of maltreatment against them as being legitimate, while any false claim of Palestinian resistance is overblown and misrepresented? It is true that Israel's atrociious treatment of the Palestinians will only lead to its destruction. You can slow this down by resenting it, rather than denying it. These tactics are not Jewish in nature. Are Jews the only humans worthy of decency in this world? I think not. We are equal like the teeth of a comb. Lets act that way. Great reporting Amira, keep it up!

Many on this talkback page are claiming that the systematic and barbaric methods of these settlers are somehow justified because, after all, what they do is nothing compared to what the Palestinians allegedly "wish" to do to them. The problems with this theory are: 1- The settlers have the support and might of the Israeli military behind them. They can get away with murdering Palestinians (and many have), while a Palestinian child who throws a rock at them can land many years in Israeli prisons. It is faceless and arrogant to ignore this imbalance of power. 2- This is classic dehumanization: Justify the discrimination and barbaric treatment of the other by claiming that the other is out to get you. This is classic pre-genocidal propaganda. 3- Most importantly: You can call these settlers "pioneers", "rightful owners", "gifts from God" or whatever you wish, but don't insult Judaism by referring to them as "Jews".

Like in 1929, when the arabs obeyed orders from mufti Husseini?

When he called the other guy a traitor he had a point. The UN is always against Israel, condemning its hunting down of terrorists whereas it does not condemn terrorism.

Tabari VIII:40 "Allah's Apostle commanded that furrows should be dug in the ground for the Qurayza. Then he sat down. Ali and Zubayr began cutting off their heads in his presence." Have a nice day.