Shahar Ilan / Ultra-Orthodox parties are Judaism's greatest enemies

Such a sad state

almost all of the talkbackers are confusing Haredim, who are a minority of the Orthodox in Israel, with religious Zionists. Religious Zionits, the large majority ofthe religious population, serve in the IDF, where they are the largest element in the combat units and junior officer corps. They are almost all gainfully employed and are the leaders in many Hitech industries, medical, and legal companies. The winner of a recent Nobel prize in science is a religious Zionists.

Sarahleh, Who told you that bubbemaise? The Pharasees represented the majority of the Jews of the Second Commonwealth. Whatever Jesus represented, the Romans wanted him for their reasons, even if there was an issue of being a False Messiah. If the details of the trial are correct . . . it couldn't have taken place. So much for that little fact. Were you to study the Talmud, you would discover the level of the discussion, you wouldn't reveal how little you know about Judaism. Haredim are quite within bounds Halachially, more stringent on some issues, and surprising less stringent on others. The real enemy of Judaism is ignorance, either from Halachically Observant Jews who forget the "little details", and the Ultra Secularists who don't know anything about Judaism.

It was the crazed Ultra Orthodox Jewish sect in those ancient days 2000 years ago who notoriously scandalised Jesus a highly learned Jew for his opposing ideas to modernise Judaism. It was this which led to Jesus' crucifiction by the Romans and all Jews suffered through it, Jews becoming the most hateful of all mankind among many in our society of today. Hence the much-talked of film 'The Passion' which brought much criticism when there are many Jews who today would not agree that an Opposition Leader had to be crucified for his Ideas. This Ultra Orthodox Jew is himself to blame for much of World Anti-semitism today and who after all were the 'First Christians', but the Jews and the Romans .....

I am Ultra orthodox, and nevertheless support you all the way. One just needs to look at Chabad. They are the true ultra orthodox. See how they relate to all jews,and compare to those you are writing about,who bring much shame to the Jewish people as a whole.They are for the most part ungreatful

There is no room for fanaticism in running a country, one just has to look at Iran. At the same time , far left elements also under mine the mechanics of running a country. As an outsider, I am saddened by both extremes tearing Israel apart. To think that millions died because they had nowhere to go, and noone cared, and now, one has to witness such internal bickering. It is very sad indeed.

Mr. Ilan, At the risk of overstaying my welcome. Re the Haredi spokespeople who cause your heart to burn. When the late Zevulun Hammer, likely the one of the few cabinet ministers in the history of the State of Israel whose who was the penultimate Education Minister. In his tenure Israel achieved international prominence, and he was Dati. When he was approached with the question of Secularism, he said that there were very few Secularists in Israel, people who were serious about generating a Secular Jewish culture that would offer an alternative to Traditional Halachic values. He described most of those who call themselves Secularists are in fact, Hedonists, who don't really care much for much anything for passing pleasures. Their Humanism and Free Thinking is a fig leaf, that covers their private parts, strutting around in the Emperor's New Clothes.

Mr. Shachar, I have no quarrel with Secularism, as such, but when you trash Haredim because they don't agree with you, well. Then I read the first three paragraphs. At least three of the Secular Jewish concepts that were touted to renew the national culture are dead. The Kibbutz, well, most of them are privatized. The concept of the Jewish bookshelf that Bialik promoted is somewhere in the back of the list of national priorities, and, even the Bible, which B-G tried to place as the one important document that brought us here, and it did, has become one the subjects most high school students avoid. There are more, but there isn't enough space in the talkback. The Old Yishuv did not disappear--they are called Haredim. They love the Land of Israel and unless you get a heter from your rabbi, you must remain. Second generation secular Israelis don't ask, they just go. Olmert's kids, Abba Even's son, even Rabin's son lived in North Carolina for a while. I rest my case.

CLearer thinking still - all the ultra orthodix have to do is to go back to basic Judaism - forget about 631 mitzvot and try keeping the 10 commandments - stop idol worshipping the rabbis and stop stealing from the rest of us. They can then go on to learning Kiddush for Friday night - six days thou shalt work and the seventh day is for the lord - at least the secular get it right six days a week!

Secular Judaism is an oxymoron. All secular Jews need to do to be Jewish is observe mitzvot, at least the main ones, such as kashrut and Shabbat. Secular Jews in Isarel will soon see where their secularness brings their children and grandchildren. Just look at the progeny of secular Jews in the USA and the UK, and of many Israelis, even our national icons. They are mostly non-Jewish.

Thank you, Shahar Ilan, for your right words at the right time - we can only hope, they will echo in the media and in every public place - they should be endorsed by orthodox Jews, even Haredim, who should openly declare, that they dissociate themselves from sects, who foment hate, have fashioned a private world of black and white, turning their backs on the beautiful colorful world created by G-d - even their infants lie in black baby carriages swaddled in black - Gerda (a shomeret mitzvot)

All the "Sacred Texts" were written by people with agendas and an ax to grind. They can be interpreted to justify any action, anywhere ,anytime. Clerics and wannabes, and their adherents and followers must be understood to be criminally insane before any progress in Human Affairs occurs They are embedded in all religions and, eventually, will take control, be it Islam, Judaism or Christianity.

The army dominates Israel in a way not seen in western democracies. If the IDF goes religious then so does Israel and it`s goodbye to any idea of Israel being a western democrcacy. If Ashkenazi doesn`t think the IDF can be trusted to confront the settlers, then Israel`s got real problems. No progress on finding the mosque-burners? What about those settlers who spray-painted stars of David on muslim graves? Were they ever caught?

Religion erodes democracy. Religion enflames ethnic tensions. Religion is triumphalistic. Religion encourages war. Religion is a symptom of a brain dysfunction caused by a high degree of survival anxiety. Religion is pathological. A symbolic attempt by the brain to regulate it?s own chemistry (more endorphins please?) but it tolerates all kinds of delusional behavior and rewards the most extreme acting out. This kind of nitpicking nonsense has no place in the contemporary world

Between Stockholm and Tehran, Israel of today is much closer to Tehran. From birth to death, from circumcision to funeral, from the establishment of the state to the establishment of the last of the illegal settlements and outposts in the West Bank - Israel is operating in the shadow of the commandments of religion. Israelis should be honest with themselves and admit it already: The country is too religious and its going to be like Saudi Arabia

"On Venus, We Got a Rabbi." - William Tenn

99.9% of those living in Israel ARE NOT LIKE ILAN SHAHAR. The majority love each other. the majority respect each other. the majority have an infinite appreciation for being Jewish and having a unique tradition that plants us on this holy turf. the majority fast on yom kipur and tisha b'av and understand why. the majority would never think of eating read on Pesach

Mr. Ilan, Did you read how Shas, one of the leading parties in the coalition threated to to pull out if . . . social benefits would be cut for the lower percentiles, or more recently, how MK Ravitz is promoting free dental care for all the school children of the State of Israel. In general, the Haredi parties are usually very strong on social issues, moreso than the Lists that started out with platforms that promoted the "working class". T'would seem that the Haredim are picking up that gauntlet. I wonder what would happen if the Haredim weren't there to remind the Left and erstwhile Social Conservatives who are willing to let the people who aren't doing as well to continue not doing well. They deserve to live in poverty--they are not Secularists!

The use of "secular" to describe those in Israel who are not orthodox is a mistake by the author. He also mixes up political positions of right and left with religious positions of Ultra Orthodox. Is there a serious question about what it means to be "Jew" in Israel today is clear. Do most Israelis have less knowledge of Jewish traditions and texts than their grandparents had is also true. These are the questions which should be addressed.

Who is this moron writing about? The 2000 most hard core in mea shearim and bnei brak??? I'm mizrachi and not charedi but i'm tired to death of the seculars bashing charedim. If you start leading a reasonably kosher life then maybe you will be able to get the charedim off their high horses. Then again, if you expect the Charedim to change their view without you changing yours, you are in for disapointment. As a practising orthodox and zionist Jew I'm in the middle and it's not an awsomw place to be, as I am capable of seeing both the secular and charedi view of things because of the chasm of prejudice between you.

Ilan is absolutely correct. Zionism is the heart of modern Judaism.The ultrorthodox belong in Mecca, or Qum, not in Israel.

You mention the Bilu'im as well as the other Chalutzim who weren't religious. I have news for you. Of the three thousand students who came to become Jewish peasants, as it were, half of them returned to Mother Russia after a while. What is more interesting is what the official historians forget to tell us, of the ordinary Russian Jews who reached Jaffa and Haifa in during the Second Aliya because they didn't have what to pay for the trip to America--Hovevei Zion gave them their ticket and they were on their own when they got to the Land of Israel. Those mostly Halachically Observant Jews who arrived and were responsible for the hundred thousand Jews who comprised the basis for the claim for a Jewish entity in the Land of Israel. In fact, they called for a rabbi, whose name was . . . Rabbi Abraham HaCohen Kook. The Chalutzim were a minority off in the boonies. Without the Tzibur Dati and Mesorati of the New Yishuv, the Balfour Declaration would have been a "scrap of paper".

A Jew can be either a strict believer,an atheist, or anything in between. This is one of the true beauties of being Jewish, and something that drives the orthodox crazy.

blame the people who maintain the moral fibre of a nation- sorry it does not work. typical, lost, liberal, leftist thinking condemns Torah observance, ritual and thinking. You put yourself out of the loop& expect people to accept/ lower themselves to your confused standard. Your JewIQ seems quite low making you unfit to talk about religious Jewry. Plus, your lack of facts about taxes, civic responsibility among religious Jewry shows how you know so little. Israel stands to lose ground more due to your way of thinking than anyone elses. But it seems you are the religious bigot here who can only see things from your skewed perspective. You are the victim of low Jewish intelligence and a lifestyle that will always put you on the wrong side of the jewish track- no matter where you live, no matter what taxes you pay.It's all about choices and survival.I know we will survive.You are apt to fade away unless you make some serious ajustments in life. good luck.

what you sound like. "This other group of Jews with common views and think that only they are ever right about anything is wrong because only my group with my set of views is completely right about everything." "Those other Jews who think only they know what Judaism is aren't really Jews, they don't even love their fellow Jews as they claim to" say the Jews who are the same way with a different set of views and a different label. Secular Jews, Reform Jews, Conservative Jews, Orthodox Jews, Ultra Orthodox Jews, Messianic Jews, what do these groups have in common? Judaism! The myth of ahavat yisrael? It doesn't look like Jews actually practice that, looking at the things they say. How many varieties of apples are there? Is an apple from one variety any less of an apple than one from a different variety? How is this so hard to comprehend? Don't like an outsider saying this? Why don't you see it for yourselves?

It doesn't take a Jew to see that Jews bicker and argue with eachother too much, are far too intolerant of eachother, and don't seem to pay any regard to this "loving fellow Jews" rule. This attitude of other Jews with a different set of views being enemies to Judaism, whether it be the Jews who take Judaism extremely seriously, or the Jews who don't take their Judaism seriously enough. That attitude is the biggest threat to Judaism. A house divided cannot stand? Ever heard that before? It's like Jews are intolerant of other Jews just like those who are enemies of Israel. Reading what secular Jews and ultra orthodox Jews say about eachother appears alot like what those who hate Israel say about Israel. (or atleast Jews bashing those who are secular, not necessarily ultra orthodox.) You love your fellow Jews? You sure about that? Doesn't look like it from the outside. Your division is the worst enemy to Judaism.

I beg to differ, i find it very hard to kiss the hand of the charideem when i work , pay taxes and serve in the army. I gave the best years of my life to defend this nation risking my life on a daily basis. As a gay man we have been the subject of a vicious hate campagn by the charideem resulting in violence and as we have seen lately murder. So exscuse me but while i am on reserve duty defending this country so that people like that can live their lifestyle while contributing nothing !

That is NOT what I said. Slavish devotion to the interpretations of a single "patron saint" rabbi to the exclusion of all other self-appointed sages IS idol worship, and that is exactly what each of the ultra-Orthodox cults do. Read and understand before you make comments, please.

Religion (a group) is supposed to be a starting point that ends in spirituality (an individual). Children should have religion, and adults should have spirituality. When large numbers of people fail to notice that, you have problems like this article describes. When older people try to mask their lack of spirituality by using their religion, younger ones will follow. Religious group loyalty is toxic if it is never abandoned (in favor of individual spiritual growth). A person can write complex articles about different groups, but the same thing applies to all religions. Young = religious, Old = spiritual.

"... the most undemocratic among us, flourish on democracy" [E of TA] ... look at Hamas, for example.

By virtue of its relentless land and water theft Israel makes the "two-state" solution virtually impossible, which leaves "one-state" as the only viable alternative since the world will not tolerate a long-term apartheid state. With Palestinians eventually gaining the demographic majority, would these discussions about Jewish sects have any relevance? if you don't like the prospect, think hard where the land and water theft will lead.

Many of our ultra orthodox co-religionist fail to remember that the Biluim, first aliya , second and third were composed mostly of unobservant/secular Jews and it was them that created most of the infrastructure of the Israeli State. The real problem is that the drift to the extremes, perverts the course of Judaism from the precepts of Hillel (4th Century b.c.e. "Love your neighbour ---all the rest is commentary" to an atavistic particularism which is the antithesis of "Ahavat Yisroel". For Judaism to survive and strive 'Charedism' must change.

The writer is correct, and as an orthodox Jew have no problem admitting. The so-called Haredim are a sect within Judaism, who are out only to gain power and money. We all seem to forget the West European Judaism and only see a propagandistic recreation of a never existed "shtetl" in the utter poverty (in all senses) of Poland, Rumania, etc. Unfortunately the achievements were wiped out by the 2nd World war and every memry is being erased by the Haredim and their helpers. One day reality (lack of funds) will reach the Haredim and the whole structure will crash, but it will be too late for the Jews at large.

I once heard the following true story from the rabbi involved. "Rabbi, I'm an atheist." Rabbi: Have you read the Bible from cover to cover? "No" Rabbi: Have you studied the "New" Testament? "NO" Rabbi: Have you read the Koran? "NO" Rabbi: Have you read the holy writings of the Hindus? "NO" Rabbi: "You're not an atheist, you're an idiot! Gabriel, don't be an idiot! Study our Torah before you denigrate it. Look at www.aish.com for articles, and for how to find a study partner.

No, God does not need our rituals. They are our way of staying connected to HIM. The Christians and Moslems, who together make up almost 1/2 the population of the world, also believe in the revelation at Mt. Sinai. The communists tried to run an atheist society and failed miserably. Millions were killed in cold blood, starved to death, or were oppressed. If you strip the Torah (what you call dogmatic rituals) from Judaism there is nothing inherently Jewish left. Matzo balls and borcht (traditional "Jewish" foods in Eastern Europe) are not the building blocks of "Jewish" culture. It is the Torah, and only the Torah, with its doctrines of monotheism and its ethical precepts that are the "Jewishness" of Jewish culture. Gabriel, I challenge you. Plumb the depths of the Talmud, revel in its logic. Analyze a chapter of Shulchun Aruch (the basic code of Jewish law) and you can see for yourself the beauty of Torah. How can you reject something with which you aren't entirely familiar?

Blessed are those who follow the Torah and forsake the talmud. They are the only ones who know Judaism. You and all orthodox like are a captive child. I don't blame you but you should look past that which your ancesters called the "oraL law".and see the Torah as it is. Simple, direct and beautiful. May you be blessed.

It's not about Haredi vs. Secular. It's about each understanding that religion and observance is more grey than black or white. It is too bad that the Masorti and Reform movements in Israel are so inept at exposing their ideals to Israeli society which would be very interested in learning about them. It is possible to be Jewish and somewhat observant in a modern society. This is something the Haredi cannot accept as they have separated themselves from any form of understanding of others faith and beliefs.

... there is nothing democratic either in their deeds or their preaching... ... they would impose segregated buses on all of us, if only they could...

I have a feeling the "affirmative action" that is going on with Haredim, allowing them to speak up, and even listening to them is creating a "backlash" among the Yevseks who ran the show in '50s and '60s. While the media was looking Yossele Shumaker, they were kidnapping Yemenite children, and coercing traditional Jews change their ways, to become part of a Secularist Jewish culture. Now, when Haredim are allowed to speak up, rather, they have entered the mainstream showing what they can do, they are told to get back into their ghetto. It's not enough that the statistics on educational levels in the schools and contributions to Israeli life. Granted, as they get out of their neighborhoods, they are "affected" by the same diseases the rest of the country likes to ignore. The result is that when Haredim get the illness it is an epidemic, but when Secularists are caught with dirty hands it goes by the board. Gaby, trashing Haredim is not the way to go!

The Almighty gave us the Sabbath and couldn't care less what we do with it. Remember it and keep it holy - that we do. Does anyone in the right mind really believe our creator really cares how many sets of dishes we have and what they are used for? Sure - one can never really know for sure (the orthodox catch all justification for all their ridiculous encumberances). This is not reason for me to burden my life with all this endless nonsence.

It is the height of arrogance for those who choose not to keep the laws of the Torah to demand a say in it. The secular Jews who eat pork, eat bread on Pesach, or don't observe the laws of Shabat in any way should not have a say in Jewish laws that they choose not to follow. Nor are the hareidim ruining Judaism any more than the secular, whose hatred for Torah observant Jews (both Haredi and Dati) is well known. I would say that those secular Jews who demanded pork in the Knesset, or who chaffed at a law requiring hospitals to serve Kosher food are ruining Judaism much more than the Haredim. Some secular Jews demand an end to "Mehadrin" buses that serve Hareidi neighborhoods. Where is the brotherly love that they preach? Why can't buses that service hareidim be "Mehadrin" as the hareidim request? No one is forcing the "secular" to use them. All neighborhoods that have "mehadrin" buses also have non-mehadrin buses. Why can't they live and let live?

All true except that the nagba is not "specious" - it was, alas, very real, except for historical revisionists ! David

As someone who lives in Jerusalem, and goes thru the Hareidi stronghold of Meah She'arim on an almost daily basis, I feel compelled to defend my fellow Jews. I personally know dozens of Hareidim, both men and women, who do work. Walk into the shops in the neighborhoods of Meah She'arim or Bais Yisroel, and see for yourselves. The "hardcore" Hareidim who completely disassociate themselves from the state DO NOT TAKE ANY MONEY from the state. Most of the Hareidim do vote. I personally saw many campaign posters in Hareidi neighborhoods during the campaigns leading up to the last election. They have a right to form political parties to push their agenda just as the secular do. Why is Degel Hatora (the main hareidi party) any worse than Shinui or Meretz, who openly spewed their hatred of the Hareidim?

Ilan writes: "The words Judaism and Zionism must be returned to secular discourse at all points of the political spectrum.." The appropriate question would be: "Why?" First, define 'secular.' Typically, it is understood to be, in a religious or believing arena: 'non-believers' or 'non-religious.' Secularity is simply a choice to live life 'free of any concepts that one does not feel comfortable with.' Such a lazy, self-serving idea has led to disaster...as our economies testify. Spend-crazy, overweight, 'consumerism' is typical of 'secularism.' Why must Judaism 'return' to secular discourse at all? Judaism is meant to be a religion of 'moderation' not either side of the spectrums: secular or ultra-religious. I agree that ultra-orthodoxy has strayed from Judaism and his completely hypocritical for such people to actually live in Israel and do nothing for the state. The DO, indeed, abandon much of the midos (ethics) of Judaism. But the secular are just as bad...if not worse.

... the title says: "Ultra-Orthodox PARTIES are etc..."

I fully agree with this interesting article. I'm glad in Israel there's still room for such a debate and there's still plenty of people who do realize the danger of religious extremism. Don't ever forget that Israel has been founded thanks to the dream and labour of secular Jews. And its hopes rely only on the strenght and foresight of State-lovers

... suggest you approach less-seasoned royalty...

Of course all that was already discussed in depth decades ago by Yeshayahu Leibovitz. That he choose his arguments from a religious perspective, whilst admitting they could as well be humanistic, makes them even more striking. Looking at the demographic perspectives and their socio-economic implications a strict separation between state and religion might become a necessity.

near impossible to address. makes this quote by einstein very apropo. "Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment or upbringing. most are incapable of even forming such opinions." my hope, is that the ultra are not as nutty as they appear.

Zionism is not Judaism, and Israel does not represent Judaism. Judaism is a set of core tenets of faith that have bound us together for ages under the harshest of conditions throughout the world. Within that fabric, there has been a tolerance of each other. Modern day Israel no longer represents those long cherished ideals. One segment of Judaism is committed to imposing their practices on all Jews within Israel. Another segment is blinded to historic Judaic values for the sake of taking and holding on to other peoples land. Within Israel there are exclusionary and violent reactions against Jews by Jews. The culture of Israel has many preoccupations that have been substituted for the practice of the tenets of our Judaic faith. Our striving for homogeneity and security are the true enemies of Judaism. Einstein predicted such a dilemma in 1947 when he foresaw the contradictions between Judaism and the demands of governing a nation-state.

Sahar As someone who spent his carreer at Haaretz siiting at the jail door waiting to report on any Haredi to get in trouble, your screed has come as no suprise.

It appears that you are quite unintelligible when it comes to understanding and acting out your Jewishness. don't fall into the trap of today's leftist non-thinkers who believe in themselves more than anything else. Judaism over the centuries has perpetuated itself not on your take of what is a Jew. Your ancestors would be tsking over your entire demeanor and lack of depth. When you learn how a Jew is supposed to operate in dress, food, actions, prayer, and decency to others, you will see how you are not any better than the ones you castigate- probably worse- not with bad intentions but with little proper information.

...you put it so well I don't have to. Shahar Ilan, you rock. I'm sick of being told I'm not a Zionist because I don't accept my country uncritically. I criticize the joining of church and state precisely because I love my country.

CJ... Sorry I'm puzzled... you're asking me who hijacked Zionism. Maybe if you've read the article... in particular the last two paragraphs, your question would have been answered. I'm commenting on this article... so what is it you find at fault with my comment. The fact I didn't include that Birnbaum coined the word Zionism in 1890 or are you trying to show me... how much you know. My goodness... thanks for the info. Cheers...

..all of this bickering angers American taxpayers. Listen world, the money and support from America has limitations and time limits also.

So people are pathetic if they support Livni's political views. G-d help us all!

Not enough tolerance for the opposing view point. As a Christian, I'm amazed at the petty name-calling that goes on among different jewish factions. I take it personally when the Prime Minister calls US Gov't officials "self-hating jews" the same week the US Congress voted the annual $3 billion in military aid for Isrel. Even in America any criticism of Israeli government policies is too often responded by the "buzz words" like anti-semitic or let israel defend itself etc Israel funding is a USA government program. I can criticize my government and its programs--and the Israeli funding is a good target because of the ungratefulness from Israel starting with the P.M.

to keep appologizing for thier behavior, is like saying well its ok if Iran wants to build a nuclear weapon, after all there are a law abiding government , who never threathened anyone with anihiliation. if it wasnt for the secular enlighten jews, who would have started the dream of Israel. Religious jews hitched that ride, and now want to get rid of the driver. Certainly this Jewish democracy, has made its share of mistakes and is learning, somehow though i dont think that a more religious approach will be the key to its redemoption. As we are constantly reminded by our religious brothers who apparently are the true God messengers that we would have no rights, if this becomes a religious State.

you are so sad, you have no idea where to go to hit! we don't say that livni is not jewish but a woman ready to give back territories and a woman that didn't want to seet at the same table with shas showd be the president of israel??? are you crazy!? the only think she did since the elections, she went to visit madonna!

The orthodox are quick enough to condemn "secular" Jews as not real Jews or in the words of Boruch (above) not a "true" Jew. So why can't the secular point out why they think the orthodox are mistaken. If enough people got fed up with one-way traffic - that is Israel kow-towing to the ultra orthodox wishes and viewpoints - some of us think that the state would benefit greatly.

Who says Haredim are not Zionists! Ben-Gurion considered any Jew who came to live in the Land of Israel was, by definition, a Zionist. The Old Yishuv, that dates back from the fourteeth century was populated by Jews who weren't concerned who "ruled the land" for the meantime. They were going live here no matter what. Haredim question secular values just as Secularists question Traditional Jewish values. How about a dialogue. Isn't that Zionism, albeit in a earlier day. Petach Tikvah as promoted by a Haredi journalist. Rosh Pina was promoted by the Elders of Safed, also Haredim. The Jews who rebuilt Tiberias in 1721 were Haredim. Granted the Haredi approach to Judaism is a little more "traditional". Some people disagree with aspects of Jewish tradition, but . . . that doesn't mean you have to trash them on the pages of HaAretz!

Why does someone have to be a "true" Jew. Why can't they simply be a Jew.

I Would hope that this God whom you worship , this supreme Being , doesnt have the vanity nor the jealousy and possessiveness for allegiance from one particular group of people.if he Does...does it still maek him God? more than monotheism, religious Judaism is on the verge of monolatry. Secular Judaism walking away from robotic rituals and dogmas, will be more enlightening than a fossilized form of religious doctrine.

Judaism is the religion based on the laws G-d gave Jews on Mount Sinai. Livni and others mechalel [desecrators of] Shabbat should not play offended when they are told they are not practicing Judaism.

Judaism, Christianiy, and Islam all have their nationalist sects who equate power politics with being true to their faith, It is permissable to defend your home against a thief? Yes? It is too easy to generalize this into a warmongering national policy. The problem is that this is only one step away from a nation becoming the thief instead of the homeowner. War is a game. It doesn;t matter which role you play. Take your pick: terrorist or defender. It is all the same. The only solution is to stop playing the game. Religion and politics do not mix except to create trouble for all. There is no justification for killing. Twisted religion is rationaliztion. Nations who forget this have lost their conscience.

no need for going back to the dark ages of dogmas, and robotic rituals, . although we can proud of our traditions, dogmas are for the weak minded who cannot see the naturel selection benefits in global ethics. and follow a child like image of a God creator with eiltist precepts. if there is a true God , he needs to be God of all , and not just appear 3500 years ago, to a some tribes. rather the tribe realized that paganism was backword and advnced the Idea of a supreme Being , which has been hidjacked by religious weak minds.

I don't think I have ever read a more ignorant statement: "elevates the rituals regarding the relationship between people and God to levels approaching idol worship. " So serving G-d with your heart, mind and soul is now idol worship? Hysterical, if it was not so sad to think the author actually believes this.

The article is true but doesn't go far enough. The problem is the parties, even those of the left, who give in to Haredi demands to get the Haredim into their governments.

You come along with a headline and an article that prove me wrong!!!

Zionism was coined by Nathan Birnbaum in 1890 "People forget that Zionism was a tool first used by the Kibbutzim... as an instrument of socialism in it`s purest form. Not for colonization or settlement .." Birnbaum eventually DIS-AGREED with the aims of the Zionist movement and left it. He advocated instead the importance of cultural/national SETTLEMENT in Eretz Israel for fulfilling the SPIRITUALITY of the Jewish people. Im Dienste der Verheissung

I have never agreed with anything on haaretz more than what this article says. I, as a secular but proud Jew, adhere more to the laws of God than those intolerant, rascist, uneducated haters. They sit in their ghettos brainwashing each other, spitting on people who are not like them. whats to like or respect about that? sure, tell me they are the minority. maybe, maybe not but either way, they will soon be a majority. we have already lost jerusalem to those'jews' who choose not to speak hebrew, work, serve in the army, contribute to the state or do anything worthwhile other than seek to cause the ruin of what could be the greatest country in the world. they sicken me, they make me embarrassed to be a jew. tell me I'm a coward, tell me i'm a self hater...do it and prove my point. I am the jew. God will judge us all, even the haredim who think god works for them

I kept reading to see explanation How ultra orthodox are enemy of Judaism. Seems to be author's conclusion without any factual basis/substance other than that's how the author FEELS. Interesting? Perhaps he also feels it's his inalienable right to define any word whatsoever way he chooses, regardless of how the word has always been used by the world at large?

how sad that a 200 years of haredi/hassidic/mitnagdim history split and enslaved a part of the old eastern european jews in to cult members from kiryat sanz to kiryat yoel master plans are needed to open the gates of these places, and rehabilitate the victims of schneersons, taitelbaums, and recent ovadias there is hope in the human healing....and jewish atheism is coming .... and it is the real gan eden... art, science and happiness

... originate only from the Lithuanian stream of ultra-orthodoxy?!... ... intersting, because secular Litvaks are often considered 'creme-de-la-creme' in all their undertakings...

What is exactly "secular Judaism"?... An oxymoron void of any real content. But who cares? Who needs Judaism at all?? Carpe Diem!

for those who do not work and only take,are called bloodsuckers in real life

Excellent article... the term Zionism has been highjacked, by people who know nothing of it's history. After all... Zionism was coined way, way before the 1967 war, before occupation and before expansion. Before west bank settlements and before Gaza as a distinct entity. Zionism was a right of Jewish people to self determination. Just like manifest destiny in the United States or Perestroika in the Soviet Union and the Cultural Revolution in China. People forget that Zionism was a tool first used by the Kibbutzim... as an instrument of socialism in it's purest form. Not for colonization or settlement but for economical self sufficiency and for the survival of the communal ethic. Today, the little tyrant Ahmadinejad uses the term as a euphemism for a four letter word. I'm happy to see Israeli writers and journalists debate and re-discover what Zionism really means.

The struggle between the secular and haredi elites does not concern the majority of ordinary Israelis who are traditional Jews respectful of religion while living in the modern world.

Well then with friends like you we definitely DON'T need enemies!!! Don't make me larf My tummy hurts too much!!!!

Nadav! I am currently in Australia on a Shlichut. I am a Principal of a girls school. I lived in Israel and I am very aware of the statistics. Most of my friends in Kfar Chabad served in the Army. I fought in the Six day war. My father in law fought in the War of Independance and in 1956, Sinai War. My son served in Gaza in 1997 My 2 grandchildren are in the army now, one of them in am elite unit. (I am not supposed to say in which unit). I worked all my life. So did my parents and parents in law. My children all work in various fields like computers etc. ALL my friends work and worked all their lives. All my extended family and my wifes family work and most of them served in IDF. Most of them are Chassidim, Chabad and other Polish Chassidim. We love ALL Jews. This what the Baal Shem Tov, the father of Chassidism taught us. Every Jew has a Neshama which is a spark of G-D.

My Jewish and zionist heritage is an integral part of my being. I am also a humanist. Does this mean I am not a Jew? Of course, it doesn't. Why were my relatives killed in the holocaust, why was my family involved in the founding of the state, why do so many members of my family live in Israel, why do I spend a great deal of time there, why do I go to synagogue to further identfy myself as a Jew. To be told by the haredim that I am not Jewish because I eat pork and shellfish and drive on Shabbat. What nonsense! If Judaism is to survive it must encompass all who want to be Jewish, not simply people who dress themselves in black and claim to keep the mitzvot.

If a battle is being waged over the future of Judaism and in turn Israel then the ultra-orthodox are now holding the upper hand. They are the activists, the ones that influence government, who have a clear political agenda, who are seeing their dream of living in a "greater" Israel come true. Unless the apathetic secularists work to redress the balance, ultimately Israel will revert to being a non-Jewish homeland with a few pockets of the utlra-orthodox living in enclaves. Judaism must be reclaimed by those who want it to flourish as a grouping of people who share a common heritage, who want to see a Jewish homeland of which they can be justifiably proud and a religion which all are equally welcome to practice, from the ultra-orthodox to the liberal. The values that Judaism (or any relgion) should promote are humanist in nature, it is our shared ancestry, history and culture that should bind us together. If only those who keep all the mitzvot are welcomed as Jews, there is no hope.

Shame on the author of this nonsense. Israel is in the mess its in because most secular Jews have no idea who they are. Its the orthodox that maintain Israel's Jewish identity. Its the Hesder boys and yes CHAREDI hesder boys that volunteer for COMBAT UNITS 70% of the time versus 30% for the non-dati population. ERETZ YISROEL BLE TORAH HE KAGUF BLE NESHAMA

And definitely no quotation marks needed for the term enemy in this case....

Who were not satisified with 85% of the mandate. Arab "irregulars" had already killed well over a thousand Jews even before the Arab invasion started. The Hagganah fought and put down any other militias,when are your peace loving friends going to do the same? When are they going to teach the pogroms against Jews in Arab countries? The torching of Jewish property,the confiscation of the property of a million Jews? There is no UNSC law demanding "Pals" "return" to Israel.(A just solution to the refugee problem,nowhere does it say Israel)UNGA 181 talks about those wishing to live in peace-who are you kidding? The Arab politics and apartheid that keeps them refugees at world expense is something for them to sort out.

You don't live in Israel so you may not know the statistics. The ultra orthodox (Haredim as THEY themselves refer to their community) are not a small group. They are 15% of the population, make of 60-70% of the Jewish poor. Less than 30% of Haredi men work (don't even ask if their women folk work); almost NONE serve in the military. The Haredim- both Hassidic and Mizrachi, seek only more money from the government whilst adamantly refusing to work or serve in the National/Military service. It is NOT a small percentage of them, but rather the OVERWHELMING majority. This is not slander, it is truth and they themselves admit to this refusal to participate in Israeli society and economy on religious grounds! The are the enemies of Zionism and Judaism, just as the author describes!

King David was not Hassid or Haredi. He didn't a fur hat or overcoat. His wives did not wear wigs. While Haredi and Hassidim may have developed a culture, it is more similar to the culture of the Amish in America than of biblical era Jews. In truth Jews always argued over the practice of the religion. Let us not forget that the Jews are a nation, and Judaism its religion. These are two distinct and different things. Israel makes a mistake cowtowing to the ultra orthodox - even they don't all agree on liturgy or practice of Judaism and often they chase "secular" Jews away from Torah as they develop an insular society. They can and should do more to show Jews how Torah is relevant to a modern world. It is. Black overcoats are not (unless you are in a snowstorm).

It usually is the most ignorant that criticize in 'black and white' terms that have no relevance to the actual problem. Were one to truly understand just the literal word of 'what Judaism is', they would present an altogether different assessment of the negatives of both the secularists and their opposite on the observant side. Porush and Netanyahu made very valid observations, and the secularists came back with a defensive, childlike response. A doctor that rejects medical ethics, a lawyer that rejects court procedure cannot defend themselves by saying to its critics 'you can't take away my legitimacy'. They have already taken it away from themselves. And, any Orthodox person that does not consider themselves responsible for the security and welfare of the entire Jewish nation is a fraud. We all need a major fixing.

You are right on the mark. I couldn't have said it better myself, except to add that sitting in the middle of the Pacific I find it difficult to distinguish the Haredi parties from their fellow travelers in Hamas, and Hezbollah. It is our mission to rail and oppose those who would destroy civil discourse and society.

... there are no fewer misdeamors and shocking crimes among the ultra-orthodox, but there is often a concerted and organized will to cover-up heinous crimes, and leave-it-to-the-rebbe...

and rightly deserve condemnation especially when they try to force their views on others, but hey that is what the real enemy the intellectuals are doing here daily. They have no problem inciting against their fellow Jews,they write historical garbage and run screaming headlines that often bear scant relation to the facts. All this of course is enthusiastically taken uop by Israel haters. Sound familiar?

I find the responses made me laugh. I think Haaretz is right to put such an article on-line, not because I may agree w/what is said w/everything in it. But sometimes ultra-Orthodox Judaism makes it so hard for any ordinary Jew to adhere that it actually drives Jews away from their G-d given heritage.Instead of bringing them closer to the fold, it actually serves to exclude. And Judaism, first and foremost, as in any moral culture, is an ethical tradition which has common principles w/all moral and ethical cultures.That is the broad foundation on which it stands. Of course one tries to improve on oneself ("temimout Yaakov")and it is said that the commandments are not so high that you need to reach for them in the sky,but very near to you. In the end, every ethical humanist tradition strives for one to do good and to wrestle w/one's evil inclinitaion. This is universal. Wisdom and compassion are not exclusively Orthodox principles.

'specious' ??? Certainly no need to even bother looking at what the Palestinians themselves have to say. It's well documented by the stories of the brave and noble pre-pro Israel terroristas. The records of the IDF after the terroristas became the brave Israeli military. By the Israeli politicians speeches. The Jewish Virtual Library. The British records. The UN records. By the UNSC resolutions. Actually no need to even bother with any of the above, it's summed up in one quote from one man, made in Aug 1948... " To repatriate those who had fled would be, in the words of Foreign Minister Moshe Sharett, 'suicidal folly' " He was talking BTW about ONLY a PART of the guaranteed MINORITY in Israel May 1948. So of course his words are either complete nonsense.. unless of course Israel meant to keep ( http://wp.me/pDB7k-l5 ) the territory it had captured by war by Aug 1948 and which has never been annexed, so it WASN'T and still ISN'T, Israeli. http://wp.me/pDB7k-j

...it would have died out two thousand years ago. The third generation of reformim in the US is already washed up. Secularism is a dud.

I do not consider myself as an ultra orthodox Jew. I am a Chabad Chasid. I don't like the term "ultr" nor the term "orthodox". I don't like labeling a Jew. And I agree that Judaism belongs to all Jews, including so called "secular". But your generalizing and painting all religious Jews with one brush is troubeling. There is only a small minority of religious Jews who do not believe in being gainfully employed. There is only a handful of those who do not serve in the army. And regarding honesty, I invite you to visit the prisons in Israel. Would you find there many "ultra Orthodox" thieves, murderers, rapists etc? I don't mean to say that there are not at all, but a much smaller proportions than amongst the secular Jews. A life based on Torah, does produce more honest people.

Glad you brought up Purim. I hadn't thought of that as a possible motor for this article.

The mistake was made when Israel's founding fathers brought religion into the structure of the government. Don't blame the Haredim. Take a lesson from separation of Church and State in the US and in France, or more closely in Turkey: go thou and do likewise. Remove religious influence from government, ALL religious influence and ALL religious institutions. Blaming the Haredim sounds too much like Mr. Hitler who wrote in Mein Kampf that his bad attitudes toward Judaism developed only when he encountered Ostjuden in Vienna.

This author is so consumed with sinat yisrael-hatred of jews that do not agree with his leftist views, that he totally lost it . Tzippi Livni became right of center and he became the center and the more secular you become the closer you are to Judaism.He is the example of the dictum of the Rabbi's"Hatred distorts rational thinking"

Gentlemen, the author is right. He is speaking of the ULTRA-Orthodox cults, who are now no better than a "Jewish Taliban", insisting that secular Jews like myself are "p'sulim" and only they are "true Jews". MY tax money supports their yeshivot, their welfare incomes and they participate in anti-Israel demonstrations regularly-including Ahmadinejad's Holocaust Denial Conference. They have become so wrapped up in their rituals that they have forgotten the real meaning of Judaism and spread hatred of the secular at every opportunity. They have "elevated" their patron Rabbis to a status equalling sainthood and worship their photographs - idolatry. The Rambam stated that learning Torah is a mitzva, not a parnassa, yet do not work for a living. Space here doesn't allow me to list all the ways they violate the core tenets of Judaism, yet they claim to be the only "true Jews". Learn about what you say before you say it.

Rather than spending their energy in trying to enforce unenforceable laws of dubious value, true religious leaders - as opposed to political leaders wrapped in the cloak of religion - would spend their time teaching and demonstrating the beauties of Judaism. Instead they are busy demonstrating the exact opposite. They use their political leverage to wrest vast sums of money from the government, i.e. from the pockets of the taxpayers, to support thousands who will not serve their country in the army or any other way, thereby creating hatred among the secular. They bring disrespect upon Judaism - and desecrate God's name - by sending to the Knesset those who end up in jail for flaunting the very laws of the Torah they pretend to represent

... especially for young seculars, not only those who view Big Brother... ... it is tragic that Judaisim & religion have lost their value, davka in Israel... ... governments court the Haredim for their ever-increasing monolithic vote... ... the most undemocratic among us, flourish on democracy...

To believe this, you would have to believe that Al Quaeda is the greatest enemy of Islam. When the existence of Israel was really in question, in 1948, the Ultra-Orthodox refused to fight for Israel, and actually opposed the creation of Israel. It was only when Israel supplied the Ultra-Orthodox with magnificent welfare that the Ultra-Orthodox suddenly discovered their approval of Israel. And then they decided they had to control the society that ensured their survival. At least in America our Welfare Queens don't despise the taxpayers who support their life-style.

Don't forget that the secular Jews should love and try to understand the Haredim too. That was brought up in this article, and it was suggested that the Haredim only payed lip service but didn't practice it, yet the article is written from the viewpoint that only the secular Jews are correct and it seems alot like the author was falling into the same thing they were accusing the Haredim of. Assuming that the Haredim are completely wrong and an enemy of Judaism is arrogant. Although, the author does depict a "holier than thou" complex suffered by the Haredim. How is claiming that Zionism is a term that should belong only to the secular Jews different than the Haredim doing the same thing, as the author claims? How is taking Judaism very seriously a threat to Judaism, other than the "holier than thou" thing?

Is this Haaretz purim schtick?

BH LOL. Poor secular Israelis are trying to convince everyone that "We are Jews too!" LOL. Just do the mitzvot, and you dont need anyone's approval except G-d's.

check out the headlines in this sick newspaper.