Ramon was right

Perhaps it is time for people to take the pledge of resistance & stand against Israel's war machine and the settlements & settlers which will squand-Ier srael's place in the Middle east in the coming decade.... I can't see how your state will be worthy of uphold- ing and this must be a reality all of you will have to face based on the status quo. (Americans are already clear in their mind about this....Dutch Please see and read how Americans rose up and spoke out about the propaganda& war machine under Bush . (although things are far from being out of the woods there is a renewed national spirit to clean up government and stop the military & corporate take over of America. ) Please tell your hawks there's no way Americans will accept a strike on Iran by Israel or indeed the US joining in. They are in LA, LA, Land.... Not in our name http://www.notinourname.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=20&Itemid=5 Howard Zinn http://www.progressive.org/mag_zinn0406 Senator Edward kennedy , listen to his wisdom and truth about Bush's abuse of power http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5353270 A blizzard of Lies BY Paul Krugman http://www.truth-out.org/article/blizzard-lies

It seems to me that we are going a new pathway for peace. A significant part of israeli citizens share the same goal with the majority of palestinian people: Front against extremism; Front for just peace based upon human rights.

Negotiate or be made to negotiate by the Americans and the world community.

Henry told the North Vietnamese negotiators in Paris, according to rumors: Not to make a deal with present administration, but rather wait for the Nixon administration. Did Ramon say wait for Labor?

I disagree with those who think that direct negotiations will damage either side's position. I think the process will have no bearing on political standing of Abbas or Natanyahu. Only the failure or success of the process that will have an impact. In this case even failure will have some positive consequence, namely the dismantling of the illusion, that indeed Natanyahu means business and contrary to popular views that he is bluffing.

OK so talking's even worse than not talking. But either way Netanyahu is determined to continue with settement expansion. Either way, he's the one we've got. So what do you suggest? How can the ground be prepared for our politicians to engage in sincere negotiations?

"The traitor is the prime minister Netanyahu". Gideon Levy, August 2, 2010 If a leftist assassinates the P.M., can we please have Gideon Levy arrested for incitement? Or does that concept only apply to some, but not to others? I thought so.

Israelis should be proud that a journalist with such integrity exists in Israel. Those who appreciate his writings should show him support, as the likes of him are rare. Well done, Gideon... well done.

This is so comical it is almost not worth commenting on. The same man who calls the prime minister a traitor, suggests that critics of Ramon are part of the new "McCarthyist" element in Israel. This is so sad and reflects a fundamental misunderstanding of both U.S. history and contemporary Israeli politics. Furthermore, the author's understanding that a conversation that is private can not be a criminal act belies even the most basic understanding of any civilized criminal justics system. Was Nixon innocent because his cover up exclusively involved "private conversations?" How about spies, are they innocent? After all, theire reports are generally sent through "private channels." In fact most of the accusations against Ehud Olmert are that he engaged in a range of criminal acts during private conversations. Private conversation are not a defense to criminal activity. The vitriol with which the author writes about Bibi, and any critic of author's political point of view, shades his entire analysis and leads to a frankly laughable column.

The Israelis and the Palestinians are impossible to deal with. It's like trying to deal with your kids. 60 years of doing the same thing, Wye, Camp David, Oslo, Wye II, Camp David II, "proximity talks". It's insane! It's time to lean on the parties to submit the Middle East dilemma to Binding Arbitration. Each party picks an arbitrator; the two arbitrators pick a 3rd arbitrator; the parties argue their cases to the three arbitrators; the arbitrators render a decision; majority rules. The UN chips in some money to justly compensate those who lost property when the UN created Israel as a refuge and homeland for Jews who had been persecuted, murdered, enslaved and made homeless by the Germans. The UN gets the money from member states and benefactors. (Maybe the Germans chip in a little extra.) That's my peace plan. It's as good as anything out there!

How else can you accommodate the Arab refugees who were driven out of their homes in 1948 and 1967 and provide a fair solution?

Your hatred of BiBi is palpable, and I like to hear the tape, you say exists. Look, you seem to emotionally involved to write about this,and sound like the traitor. But hey what do I know, all your stuff is contrariness anyway, you seem to want blame your government for all that is wrong.

What the left should do is support Netanyahu, whenever he has a chance to get closer to peace. Juts like the right-wings parties supported left parliaments in case of necessity. Its sad to see ideologies being ravaged by political positions.

Netanyahu offers nothing for negotiation while Abbas has offered specific proposals. Instead Netanyahu fears the settlers and hides behind them. Abbas has the courage to lead. Obama needs to recognize Netanyahu will use this as an opportunity to propagandize and to undermine Abbas.

Mr Levy is right. But the problem is with the US. As long as the US government and Congress enable Israeli intransigence nothing will happen. Obama had good intentions but soon learned of the power of the Israeli lobby. It is a classic case of the tail wagging the dog. There will be no peace settlement. Israel needs to use up many of his out dated weapons to make room for news ones.

The same thing was said about Begin and he brought peace with Egypt,Sahron withdrew from Gaza and Netanyahu is holding a card to negotiate.What was reported in Haaretz I think was tactical and in private conversations with Obama and Mubarak things were differen Why is everyone pushing for direct negotiations even the Arab League?

Obama has become an unpopular President, very rapidly, as all the polls now show. He will lead the Dems to defeat in November and though 2012 is a long time to turn it around, Americans have woken up to the emptiness of his grand slogans and his do nothing attitude on major issues like the Gulf spill. He is an unserious President (the View) when there are very serious issues now. I would now place the odds at 50/50 he gets re-elected vs 65/35 earlier this year.

Jimmy Carter coached Arafat how to "play the game" by saying what the West and Israel wanted to hear, without changing any part of the terroristic philosphy and its ultimate aims.

The whole idea is to talk, no matter how you get there. Just get in that in room and talk, try to work things out. Now that it is about to happen again, here we have the Left crying foul already. Why? Because its not on your terms? Because it is Natanyahu? Sounds like more excuses for your own political agenda! If you really supported Israel you would support direct talks regardless of the route to those talks. Just more hypocracy from the Left.

Netnayahu has no credibility any more - with anybody. Because he proposed it, everybody suspects it. A shaky leader kept in power by a coalition of fringe parties isn't likely to inspire confidence. And why do they always have to start over from the beginning? I think it's because they know they won't get even as far as they are today and then will be able to abandon it - again - because "talks have broken down".

And he ignores the Waqf ripping apart Israels historic foundation on "the Temple Mount"....Did Abbas approve this?

Mr. Levy might think it is okay for Ramon to say in private that the talks with Bibi are bad but then Ramon does not think so. So who is Anti-Israel Ramon or Mr. Levy?

Do the number of talkacks tell us anything about the relevance of a columnist? Repeating the same mantra week after week becomes boring.Having three columnists repeating the "original sin of the occupation" only makes it exponentially boring. If there hasn't been a decline in your readership, it is because there better things to read than the three clowns.

Eavesdropping may be reliable and factual for you but most people have a little bit moore discrimination.

for the most wise, sober and accurate rendering of the Ramon dilemma...

Why is Gideon Levy calling Ramon ‘traitor’? Did Ramon betray Israel? Did he sell state secrets? Ramon denies accusation, Peres denies that he asked Ramon to persuade the Palestinians to back away from direct negotiation and Erekat refuses to reveal to the press what was actually discussed in the meeting. So we should believe Gideon Levy, because someone whispered in his ear, something that cannot be verified? Gossip does not make good journalism.

Haim Ramon now denies he ever said it and initially denied kissing anybody and Bibi said it, but is not to be believed. And the cause of it all-the corrupting occupation. This too is unbelievable!

The loony left wants everything against Bibi. Here is an actual opportunity for direct talks, and they want to torpedo it. Thanks (NOT), loony left.

what has made you so bitter, hateful and cynical about your own people? Why do you always whine? In your world, only the Jews are conniving and bloodthirsty savages, and the Palestinians are just freedom loving people striving for peace. As for Ramon, he can say whatever he wants, but one cannot imagine in any other democracy, a member of Parlaimant actively undermining his own government's efforts for peace.

Thank you Gideon Levy.Good to know that there are still a few people in your country who have a feeling for right and wrong and who have the guts to "speak out".... By the way,the story somehow sounds to me like an excerpt from Philip Roth's "Operation Shylock"....

Unless they involve public figures involving themselves in national issues which having an impact on all of us. Mr. Levy, who do you think you are kidding? If Netanyahu had privately met with Jordan to discuss transfer of Palestinians, would you say "its none of our business"? Or would you write an article in Haaretz bemoaning Israel's loss of values and decrying its racism? I think we all know which you would do. The problem with what Ramon did is that he went "behind the back" of his own people, his own Parliamentary colleagues and his fellow nationals, to advise a foreign government with which we are at war. To make things worse, he counselled them to take a course of action which will potentially lead to significant harm to Israel and its international standing. If this is not treason, Mr. Levi, then what is?

peace can be achived, but these political morons look after themselves and no one else, he is betraying his country in the pursuit for peace.

Unfortunately there are extremists of all persuasions in any society Gideon Levy and some others are prime examples. They are entitled to their opinions, but the responsibility for PUBLISHING those opinions in such a biased and unrepresentative fashion rests with the editors and owners of the newspapers in which their articles appear. Shame, shame, shame on the editors and owners who represent a 'fifth column' giving succor to Israel's enemies undermining Israel's security.

And he is not alone: the majority is against it. We did elect them, isn’t it? Wisdom is always given only to few privileged folks who are able to withstand brainwashing and are not dragged by the masses. And few means, to my profound regret, that peace is not going to be achieved around here in the foreseeable future and, even more regretfully, is not meant to.

It may well be that the optimum resolution to our sorry Near Eastern conflict may be as you say. It may well be the most ethical and moral solution. But please outline the necessary diplomatic, political, and economic steps necessary for a successful and bloodless implementation of the idea.

.....who knows exactly, that his governement will fall apart on the day he would sign a peace treaty with the West Bank Palestinians....??? Why would a man be serious about peace, who played a major role during the campaign of hatred and incitement against then PM Rabin, WHO WANTED TO MAKE PEACE, and which in the end led to his assassination.....??? (Like many Israelis), already forgotten, dear Smadar....??? Gideon Levy and Haim Ramon obviously haven't......

Nevertheless, he is still a backstabber.

Try to get this correct. I will speak slowly. The only solution that is acceptable for Israel is the one-state solution where there is only Israel without any arab non-Jewish citizens in it according to the borders of YHWH.

Nice article. Netanyahu's naive comments on the continuation of the settlement freeze bringing his government down, must rank with his gaffe on 9/11 being good for Israel. That said, if he's committed to a two state solution, then why does he allow the continued settlement expansion in the West Bank, unless he has no intention of a peace solution with the Palestinians.

The amount of talk about whether or not to go into talks, is really tantamount to becoming a summer theatrical farcical Noel Coward production! On stage and then off stage the actors say one thing and then deny it ever existed. It's becoming too ridiculous that before peace talks between the parties even has begun, there's unqualified assumptions about PM Netanyahu's Likud's capabilities to negotiate a peace agreement. How do people know? In fact, you don't know. DM Ehud Barak seems to believe that PM Netanyahu is a willing partner to the Palestinians in negotiating a comparable agreement to that of previous governments, so why not believe that once direct talks are resumed, we'll see that progress?

Let the world see the emperor has no clothes

Ramon gave a good advice a week ago. Had Abbas THEN agreed to direct talks, he would have lost face with the Palestinians, after first insisting that Israel agree to the obvious: not devouring the West Bank while negotiating over its division. Moreover, the talks have no chance of succeeding with the Netanyahu government, but its failure might have caused another intifada, just as the failure of Camp David did. Today, though, the situation has changed. The Arab League gave its blessing to direct talks, thus giving Abbas political cover for his public. Moreover, it was disclosed that Obama made new promises to Abbas and the League that he will get a state. (Expected) failure of the direct talks will bring US pressure on Israel which will help bring down the Netanyahu government, as Jim Baker brought about early retirement to Shamir. Abbas should now agree to direct talks and may see his goal of the US working for him beginning right after the Congressional elections this year.

For the first time I've read in media commentary, what my OWN perception of Bibi's intent has been - from the day of his much hyped speech regarding two states. Nothing he has done since that day indicates ANY intention of yielding to the concept of a Palestinian state - and the mechanisms for establishing 'facts on the ground' have only GROWN since that day. There's no doubt that the U.S. state department is also fully aware of this, and one can only hope that the American pressure for direct negotiations is to fill a 'required' square on the path toward an imposition of two states based on the 1967 border. An excellent commentary, Gideon!