Playing two different games

mr masaoud first look up mrs Waffa Sultan to see what she had to say to all you Muslims on Al-Jazira TV what Islam is why it exists and how it exists with brain washing fear hate and genocide a man in Afghanistan is facing death because he realised the cult Islam is and turned to Christianity wake up son when will you Muslims free your countries from the dark age dictatorships and stop blaming the world for the hell Islam has created in all countries invaded by this cult in the past 1400 years

Incendiary rhetoric on the Arab side propelled them into losing wars in 1948 and 1967. Hamas and Iran are today playing at the same game. Only, there is no risk to Iran.

Alot of people in Palestine are talking very seriously about doing this - abolishing the PA and reconfirming the status of the territories as occupied. There is a perfect storm brewing - the PA runs out of money, Fatah is not interested in keeping it going as they are not in power any more, Hamas is only luke warm on the 2 state solution anyway so they don't care if it collapses. It could all be alot closer than you think.

would you have a room for me as a refugee? or would you send me packed to a Islamic prison to be raped, beated and tortured as they did in Afghanistan to their own people, or to the western kidnapped people in Irak and other places? or maybe to Sudan to one of the ISLAMIC RELIGIOUS camps WHERE CHILDREN (3 YEARS OLD!!!!) are being trained to kill, wearing tiny uniforms and carring guns bigger than themselves? So, yes, Israel is not always right, but I have seen people like you shaking and pissing in their pants in Gaza strip and other places when the palestinians got them without asking for their political positions. I am leftist, a proud jew-israeli-zionist leftist but i am not blind. We came here for good! We will reach peace someday. But we will not give up our state to satisfy people like you. Even if i will got your support after implementation of your ideas, as a jew refugee witout land, as you defend the palestinians in the wrong way you did. Another rebel without cause!

Actions speak louder than words, Bloomfield, and the Hamas cease-fire is much more of an olive branch than anything Israel has done. Hamas is not responsible for "rockets" which are fired by other groups in retaliation for violent Israeli provocations. Israel, the barbarous occupier state, has murdered and maimed many many more men, women and children than have been killed or injured by Palestinian suicide bombers. The illegal Israeli settlers should be condemned for putting their children in harms way and also for teaching them the hateful ways of occupiers. Israel's attacks kill Palestinian civilians indiscriminantly whether they are armed for self-defence or unarmed. Bloomfield, considering your nonstop sophistry is there any reason to take YOU seriously? Patrick

I'm afraid Bill has got it all wrong. His so called "facts" are totally out of context. One wished that he had understood the koran correctly before commenting on it. Nowhere in the Quran is it actually mentioned that Muslims need to eliminate the Jewish race; and besides the GOD of the Muslims is the same as that in Judeo-christianity. The concept of Moon god is absolute rubbish; only the most ignorant and the most foolish can believe this. I really don't know who fed you this worthless piece of junk?? Islam is a peace loving religion, but I agree that some fanatical muslims have arm twisted this great religion to suit their tastes and comforts. But that doesn't take away the beauty and essence of Islam. Hope one day, we see peace and happiness in Israel-Palestine, sans the Zionists and radical palestinians!

George Truti, you wrongly suggest that Israel and the Arabs have one and the same "conflict". I suspect that you have neither visited Israel nor the areas where the Arab refugees live (West Bank and Gaza). If you had, you would have seen that the utter lack of civil rights in the entire Arab world is the chief cause of their difficulties. Most Arabs deny this, however. In their situation, they are not even ready for a "federation" with each other, let alone with a non-Arab opponent such as Israel. You are deluding yourself when you refuse to see a problem for what it is!

^^You seem to ignore the basic fact that land owned by someone, lived on by someone and worked by someone cannot just be given.^^ Please educate me on the issue of the CURRENT British colonies...I need you advise on this matter. Although I fully understand that over there are not too many Jews and by this virtue we must not apply the same standards that in your mind are applicable to Israel, I still need some sort of clarification of your legal Jew-hating stand on this issue. Thank you a much in advance, moron.

that hamas, fatah and other bandits organizations are nothing else, but terrorist murderers. Although Russia, Europe and others for years know very well that it is the fact, being politically correct communists by their nature, those prostitutes will pretend that pal are just liberators, who are the victims of Israel. Look at latest court decision in Britain, in Belgium, summit in Moscow, cheering in Venezuela and other socialists countries, there is no place for objective and unbiased analysis, there is no place for calling things what they are. The World of Dutches, Mohamed^s, Yaakovs, Kiwi girls and men, no BRAINs etc. will intentionally smear the picture and protect murderers with libo-communist^s slogans and all other means of propaganda.

Bill, Maybe, it's time you picked up the Bible and read about death and destruction. You rant about Islam but it wasn't Moslems that were doing the killing, it was Christians. I don't remember Hitler being a Moslim or what about all the killing of Jews in Poland, Russia, ect. It is easy to take one part of a quote from the Koran but the same can be done from the Bible. Leave the religious nonsense out of it. Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini - Moslems?

The only true solution is for Israel and Palestine to forge a Federation, like the EU. Have two states living in peace and harmony under one Nation. Jerusalem would be the capital of the federation. The refugees could return to the Palestinian side but still enjoy the economic rewards of working in Israel. The whole region is so intertwined, I don't see any other option to end this conflict. Israel would remain a Jewish State without having to impose Aparthied style politics when Palestinans become the majority in the historical land of Palestine (Israel/Palestine). Let the hardliners on both sides step aside and allow rational people to make this bold move. The area will prosper beyond belief and all will live in comfort and security.

Zeev, You are so right. The refugees are returning to their home whether Israelis like it or not or accept it or not. It is their inalienable right and the world stands with them in demanding that Israel honors this too. Dutch

funny cease fire periods? give me a break, Hamas just allow Islamic Jihad to attack israel. Never was there 1 single period that all!!! Palestinian groups adhered to 1 single cease fire. Every time they managed to find a so-called splinter group to attack Israel. Tell me how much did the amount of Jewish people increase in 2005 in the occupied territories and is that really a threat for the Palestinians? Give me a break. Just see how much the Palestinian population increased in the territories, which would imply a relative decrease of settlers i dare to bet!! East Jerusalem was already annexed since 1967 so what is new as well as Jordan Valley remains under our control till an agreement is agreed upon. Can u see in the future? I cannot so i do not know what will be Palestine one day. However, you did not give me one single answer on my remarks which shows u agree with me. International should apply to both sides not just to Israel Jan!!!

You incorrectly suggest that the Arab refugees are "a dispossessed and brutalized people". The Arab refugees are individual persons, yes, but not A PEOPLE. Until 1948, there were Muslim, Christian AND Jewish people living under British rule. You and your friends magically eliminate the Jews out of the Palestinian narrative and thereby you falsify history!! The Arabs' continuing inability - or unwillingness - to grant civil rights to themselves and to each other in Gaza, in Saudia, in Iraq, in Syria and wherever else, is not the Jews' fault, as you seem to maliciously imply!!

...and a non-Arab and non-Islamic too, let's not forget

Typical nauseating, pseudo-vanguard jingoism from Ms. Hass... the kind that punctuates every article by Ramallah?s favorite adopted-daughter. This is why Hass has become every anti-Zionist's favorite Jewish journalist... she tells them exactly what they want to hear, spoiling them rotten with stories of Jewish wickedness, which they then immediately pass on to their campus acolytes in the USA and Europe, in addition to the myriad organizations dedicated to Israel's national assisted-suicide. Amira Hass. What a hero. Let's face it, Kevorkian was small-time in comparison to Jewish anti-Zionist "intellectuals," who apparently won't be satisfied until Israel is first hopefully vilified, and ultimately euthanized from the community of nations.

Khalid, still dreaming of making Israel Palestine. Sorry not going to happen.

"These organizations, with their suicide attacks and their Qassam rockets, painted the Palestinians as the aggressor, just as Israel's propaganda claimed." So all the innocent victims of the terrorist attcks are only "painted" or "claimed"... You are really something!!

Many thanks, Les. I have given a look to your site. I am impatient to know.

Soon or later, the refugees will return. Israel should negotiate with Hamas asking a list of all refugess indicating the villages where they come from. Then return these refugees home. In this way, there will be no refugees' problem. This is the way to make peace, not through tricks, lies, bombs and bulldozers. All these means are stupidity. PEACE WILL BE THE FRUIT OF JUSTICE (Isaiah 32:17).

All the agreements listed by Dutch or others will never lead to peace. For me, Geneva initiative is a racist and violates article 8 of the Swiss constitution which condemns any discrimination based on religion. Geneva initiative denies the Palestinians' right of return for the only crime of being non-jews. Where to put the Palestinian refugees? 80% of the Palestinian villages have been destroyed and covered by forests to hide their traces. See the case of Emmaus which became Canada Park for pic-nic. Why the people of Emmaus cannot return to their village? NO RETURN = NO PEACE PEACE WILL BE THE FRUIT OF JUSTICE (ISAIAH 32:17).

Let?s hope Europe stops making fool of itself before it?s late and doesn?t help those who want to destroy us all. Our governments should realize Israel and Europe are in the same boat. I have read calls from at least a couple of European politicians for Israel to be allowed into NATO, and also that Israel hasn?t applied.

What do you call a people who randomly shoot missles into civilian population centers, blow up buses and disco’s with suicide bombers, and threaten to drink our blood? Friends of Amira Hass

The leftist politically correct western liberals who would be flogged and even hanged in public in places like Teheran and Ryadh for their "depraved" dayly behaviour and ideas find common ground with Islamofascist Jihadists when it comes to Jews and Israel. On the other hand Jihadists in Palestine and elsewhere rely on reviving the atavic ancestral antisemitic feelings of a significant section of the European and North American public opinion who view their uncompromising "resistance" to the Jews in Israel and elswhere as a heroic struggle against the "World Jewish Conspiracy " Compromise,Peace arrangements make no sense to this people and we know what their "solution" to the problem means for the Jewish People. The Jewish Question in Europe was once "solved" in the same way:eviction and extermination but this time Jews are armed to their teeth and that drives them mad

This is an extremely puzzling artlicle because it is generally out of character for Ms. Hass to criticize the palestinian side. Yet here, she is critical of Hamas the overwhelming victor in the palestinian election. And, she is critical because they would perpetuate an unending intifada when " ... the experience of the last five years has proven that the use of arms not only worsened the Palestinians' situation, but also came at the expense of mass mobilization for a popular uprising." Although she does not say it directly, these words are code for: THE PALESTINIAN POLULATION IS TOTALLY EXHASTED BY FIVE YEARS OF INTIFADA AND CANNOT CONTINUE. THEY NEED A NEGOTIATED PEACE WHICH HAMAS' FANATICISM WILL DENY THEM.

Amira Hess again makes a deceitful analysis of Hamas intentions with statements like " these organizations, with their suicide attacks and their Qassam rockets, painted the Palestinians as the aggressor, just as Israel's propaganda claimed. Now, Hamas is deemed the one who is refusing to negotiate". This is ridiculous. Hamas has the same position that ALL Palestinian organizations have since Husseini, Mufti of Jerusalem in 1921- Jews have no right to have a state in the Middle East. Amira Hass confuses strategy with ideology. Even Hitler occasionally would tone down his antisemitic rhetoric when politically convenient, but he never veered away from his ultimate goal: destroy the Jews. Hamas (PA,PLFP,Iran,etc) have the same goal.The rest is blah,blah,blah. Hamas stopped with suicide attacks only after its leadership was decimated. They would rather remain alive down here than dead with 72 virgins up there.

Andrew, The roadmap called, for bilateral steps--thus the Israelis failed to dismantle any real settlements as the Gaza pullout was just a relocation to the West Bank. Another unlawful Israel's presence in the Palestinian territories. Please don't ask me to excuse Israel's unlawfulness --I am not accepting it amymore and neither is anyone else I know. Thus the bottom line for Israel today is ---get out of the Palestinian territories or we will force you out with our divestments & boycotts. Dutch

With this in mind, I don't choose to reduce the conflict to a mere board or table top. It may be amusing or mentally stimulating to think of openings, gambits, feints, and ultimate mate, but 24 hours ago, a father, who buried his own child, poured his emotional guts out in public, to remind people that within the past week, Palestinain parents had to bury their own babies. Such an act is a real life emotional trainwreck. The parent's didn't sacrifice a pawn. They didn't lose a child because HAMAS didn't properly castle. NO, indeed not. Israel attacked two militants because it belives that such actions will keep Israeli children from winding up dead. The cost of that action means that Palesitnian children suffer the ultimate price. No, this is not a game, its as real as it gets. Save the en-passents for the playing board. Come up with something better in the way of solutions for this harsh reality.

Are you all also away of the Hamas police giving Nazi salute in lineup? Picture was on another Israel news site!

Because its not. The implication of a game is useless to me. I don't care whether the analogy is ping pong, chess (as an explanation of diplomacy or war) or whatever. You could put in Monopoly, RISK, Stratego, Axis and Allies, Table Top war games, Role Playing Games, 1st player shooter video games, whatever. The fact of the matter is, REAL PEOPLE, PALESTINIANS, ISRAELIS, JEWS, MUSLIMS, CHRISTIANS, Young and Old, Men and Women, are suffering with this situation. The conflict between these people, including the impact of the occupation, is CAUSTIC! On individuals, families, communities, both body and soul. Trying to turn such trauma into a game demeans the sacrifices and costs faced by everyone involved in this. With this in mind, I don't choose to reduce the conflict to a mere board or table top. It may be amusing or mentally stimulating to think of openings, gambits, feints, and ultimate mate, but 24 hours ago, a father, who buried his own child, poured his gut

Which has become their real belief system. Ultra left dogma agrees with Ahmadinejad and Hamas that Israel has no right to exist. The refugee issue is the last best hope of destroying Israel over a matter of years that is why it is pushed so hard. Arafat said the Arab womans womb is their strongest weapon

It is evident that Amira has not read the genocidal charter of Hamas with its uncompromising aim of destroying Israel, or, if she has, she chose not to mention. This is similar to write about Hitler without mentioning his plan presented in Mein Kampf. Anyway, Amira must be congratulated in having written for the first time an article that (although very slightly) criticizes her beloved Pals.

Israel accepted Oslo in 1993 and the Road Map in 2003. If either had been adopted by the PA then we would have been well on the way to peace. Unfortunately, Abbas failed to carry out even the first phase of the road map - it's now clear that he is a serial offender when it comes to discharging obligations on behalf of his people. That's why there's no peace. There's very little peaceloving on your side of the divide.

I don't think, Jacob that you understand the euphemism of a chess game vs. a ping-pong game. Ping-pong means a chain of action-reaction-revenge and retalliation - this is unending. Chess game in politics means a non-violent maneuvering to attain your goal - trying to outsmart your enemy - this is legitimate. It may end in a chess mate or in a draw. The Arab-Israeli conflict may not be resolved easily, as each antagonist holds to the total truth of his position, but it can be deescalated when the arena becomes not murdering but a wise presentation of one's position. It's a great alternative to using naked force on both sides.

I don't think, Jacob that you understand the euphemism of a chess game vs. a ping-pong game. Ping-pong means a chain of action-reaction-revenge and retalliation - this is unending. Chess game in politics means a non-violent maneuvering to attain your goal - trying to outsmart your enemy - this is legitimate. It may end in a chess mate or in a draw. The Arab-Israeli conflict may not be resolved easily, as each antagonist holds to the total truth of his position, but it can be deescalated when the arena becomes not murdering but a wise presentation of one's position. It's a great alternative to using naked force on both sides.

Shalom Freedman. Despite Hamas' efforts to retain the religious roots of the Palestinian people, I can assure you people around the world know better than to connect them with International terrorism. They are and will remain a national liberation movement to remove the Zionists oppressors and tormentors from their land--at least to the 1967 Green Land for now. Dutch

Prior to the expulsion of the Jews. Why not admit the truth for once and acknowledge that in survey after survey the majority of the USA support Israel despite large portions of the USA media being owned by Arabs If you dont like Israeli influence just lobby harder bitching here does not help. You Arabs have got thousands of billions of petro dollars if it is just a question of money.

Published regularly in their controlled media. Where? Oh what a 5 star humanitarian

You keep repeating the same propaganda, day in, day out. You copy and re-copy the same nonsense endlessly. I know that you are nothing but a cheap propagandist.

"All that Israelis want is to live in peace and have a decent life. But if you refuse to negotiate, and if you make unreasonable demands, then Israel will act accordingly. Cipora, If Israel desires peace so much why has it rejected one peace proposal after another? See List below. In addition, what's reasonable about placing another people under siege and building a wall which traps people on either side to ensure your rights while denying theirs? Dutch P.S. Cipora's Myth about the Peace loving Israelis. The Rogers Plan (1969) , The Scranton Mission on behalf of President Nixon (1970) ; Sadat's land for peace, mutual recognition proposal (1971); Carter's call for a Geneva International Conference (1971); Saudi King Fahd's peace offer (1981); The Reagan Plan (1982); The Shulzt Plan (1988); The Baker Plan (1989); A continuation of the Taba negotiations (2001); The Saudi Peace proposal on behalf of the Arab League (2001); The unofficial Geneva peace initiative of November/December 2003. In 1993 Arafat signed the Oslo Accord which unraveled after Yitzhak Rabin's assassination (Nov.1995) and Likud's return to power: 22 Arab states comprehensive peace initiative, based on the 2001 Syrian Initiative (2002); Syrian peace initiative (2003); Syrian initiative to start negotiations of Nov. 2004. ( Sharon rejected the last 3 peace initiatives.) Dutch

Everything else is up for discussion.

And more importantly, what is a Jew doing advocating national suicide?

""The issue is not just Palestinian refugees returning home but also Russian and European refugees returning to their home. That is the logical conclusion of your question. You don`t want Palestinians to return home because you don`t want the new occupants pushed to their old homes--as you fear will happen. Therefore, we have a conflict based on fear and not reality"" You missed something in the equation which proves that you understand little of how the world at large works:Most Jews who migrated to Israel immediately after WW2 WERE EVICTED AND DISPLACED FROM EUROPE AND ARAB COUNTRIES. Millions of Europeans and Arab have replaced them and "stolen" their lands and posessions and will not just run away to allow Israeli Jews to come and settle back so Palestinians can come back to Israel.Domino Effect is called but don't expect the International Community to support this..The world won't commit collective suicide to accomodate your people.

Is there not a third game at stake: you have to consider why Hamas does presently not want to recognise Israel. They just want recognition of the harm and in justice done to Palestinians. The whole conflict started when in 1948 thousands of Palestinians were murdered, hundreds of villages intentionally destroyed and hundreds of thousands driven out. None of the war criminals who did this were ever prosecuted. If your opponent admits his guilt, you can come on speaking terms. Even more disturbing then the injustice itself is when your opponent just denies it. Against the (right) demand that Hamas recognises Israel should come the demand that Israel accepts responsabiliy (morally and financially) for harm done to the Palestinians during decades. Recognising this includes recognition of the right of return. That is not destroying Israel, since statistics show that hardly anybody wants to come physically. It is not about actual return. It is about recognition of injustice.

The Palestinians have basically taken an all or nothing position. Either they get almost everything they want, or the war will continue. Or will it? Are Palestinians, living in a permanent military stranglehold, really in a position to effectively wage war? It's one thing to proclaim to all and sundry that you are prepared to fight to the bitter end, but as we have seen with the surrender of the PFLP men yesterday in Jericho, saying it doesn't mean that you are actually prepared to do it! I believe that Palestinians need a negotiated solution even more than the Jews. Israel has found a workable formula for successfully prosecuting this low intensity war, and can maintain the status quo indefinitely. Palestinians on the other hand, are financially bankrupt and increasingly incapable of striking out effectively. Simply put, the Palestinians are LOSING the war. And that is why Palestinians refugees need a SIGNED final status agreement with Israel. -B-

Once again you are adopting non starter issues.Jordan wont be palestine and would not be good for Israel if it was.Population exchange? What if the Pals say no then what? A Stalinist policy directed at Arabs instead of at Tatars?? Pleas Gabe1 wake up already.The Palestinians are not going anywhere ,Jordan wont be palestine, the PA is a liability on Israel, Israel should look for ways to get the hell out and save its toes and fingers and move on life.Think about it.Your thinking is to clouded by grievance and hatred for you to see clearly.

Hi Kim, I have some wonderful news for you! So many wonderful events within the last couple days. And something wonderful that you will know is for you! Our G-d is an awesome G-d! I will explain on my website as soon as possible: www.Thunderstruck.tv

I hear what you are saying but on the other hand Olmert seems quite determined to hold onto Ariel etc which will block any progress with Abbas.However Abbas is really a lame duck president at this point.Hamas now says they wont accept even previous agreements with Israel let alone anything he would agree to.I think the whole issue of Abbas has now passed and gone.He will retire soon I think.No one in Israel will take negotiations with him seriously,Israel is ina situation of unilateral moves.I guess Labor in govt will give some important domestic gains which are very important.I guess Labor could ride this horse as far as it will go, build up credibility as you suggested make the most out of the withdrawls and then jump ship when it is time.But no doubt we are into conflict management mode for the forseable future.PS I didnt go anywhere I was just very busy these past weeks.Regards Danite

"Do you mean by peace the returning of the refugees to Israel?" This is precisely why I don't believe there will ever be such a "peace". It's because of such distorted and twisted views held by Zionists. If you view it as a sum zero game, as the question implies, then I can easily take the view the refugees in Israel should return to Russia and wherever they came from. The issue is not just Palestinian refugees returning home but also Russian and European refugees returning to their home. That is the logical conclusion of your question. You don't want Palestinians to return home because you don't want the new occupants pushed to their old homes--as you fear will happen. Therefore, we have a conflict based on fear and not reality. It's not my problem you live in fear of the day after. Noone told you steal other peoples land. The notion history stopped with the birth of Israel is more delusional thinking by your cultist tribe. True [D]emocracy is the answer;"jewish state"is not

Danite, welcome back (from where?). Not much time these days, and Haaretz keeps censoring the little I post. I actually notice some positive progression in the Hamas position, as I post in #61. They may be trying to emulate Hafez Assad in their conditions. Maybe they will turn rational one of these days. As far as post-election Israel, right now one can expect a coalition of Kadima, Labor, Meretz, and Agudah. Kadima will have to yield something, and I imagine Labor will insist on talks with Abbas. So we will have both disengagement and talks. Better than the previous policy. Israel will get some settlers out, and get the Kadimah people to expand their horizons (a very difficult task). You can save a whole Intifada this way. I think there is simply no choice for Peretz but to join. Otherwise, even the settlers will remain. From Peretz point of view, he will improve social conditions in the meantime, become more respectable, gain experience as a minister, and get ready to be PM.

Why do you need to call yourself Jewish?

Those who preach and promote the Right of return want permanent war in the Middle East. Even a brain dead retard understands that Israel is far better off with the current situation of low level warfare than having its Jewish population evicted or exterminated. Moreover if Palestinians have the right to go back to Israel so have 60 mil other refugees and their descendants namely the Germans evicted from Eastern Prussia,Silesia,Pomerania and Sudetenland,Armenians evicted from eastern Turkey,Greeks evicted from Anatolia,West Turkey and Cyprus,Serbians evicted from Croatia so on and so forth. Not to mention Jews evicted from Central&Eastern Europe and the Arab countries...

Ronnie, Haaretz keeps censoring my posts to you on the subject. One last try: "They [Hamas] are saying with their charter what they believe in." - R. Wolman Ronnie, they are saying in the charter what they believeD in when it was written (1988). Once the Charter was written down, it started being interpreted (as you Faucault and Derrida sources would tell you). Today, the understanding may be changing, perhaps. "A dropping of the Charter would have brought the situation to a different level. Israel doesnt have a second chance.Its too vulnerable to take any chance." - Ronnie What chance/risk are you talking about, discussions held with Abbas? Doesn't look like any risk to me, perhaps to Abbas' health, but he wants to take it (as per Erekat's article). A change of the charter is not going to happen any time soon. You can keep insisting, but why waste your time in the meantime? I am talking pragmatically. It is not an ideological question, only pragmatic.

Why don't you explain how the Right of return would be implemented? Where would 4 to 5 million refugees and their descendants be settled in a country populated by 5 mil Jews and 1.5 mil Arabs? What will happen to the Jews who live there now?

Is that how you interpret the recent statements of Hamas, as an olive branch? Why should Israel withdrawal from the entire West Bank if Hamas is only willing to extend a phony ceasefire, which is constantly being punctuated by intermittent rocket fire? Are the rockets being operated by the "civilians" that you refer to, against whom Israel has been retaliating? Are the suicide bombers also Palestinian "civilians"? And the women and children murdered by the "civilian" suicide bombers, I suppose these are actually Jewish "soldiers", especially the 7 year olds? You live in an Alice in Wonderland dream Patrick, where Palestinian armed militants are "civilians", and all Jews are "soldiers", whether unarmed or babes in arms. Patrick, considering your complete lack of rational judgment, is there any reason to take you seriously? -B-

There are plenty of pals who understand that what they are teaching their children is wrong but obvously they do not care enough. If it was a few thousand people then fine you can say that they are victims. But they were offered peace and their leaders turned it down. They must realise that their leaders are the ones screwing them over and if they don't then there can never be peace because they will always hate us. The EU should be doing something about it they are the ones paying for the school books and still giving money to Hamas. What it comes down to is whether it is their fault or not my life and my childrens lives come before anyone elses and if someone is threatening to kill my children i will kill them first.

*Israel has worked energetically to link the Palestinians with international Islamic terrorism and the "clash of civilizations:" enlightened versus benighted. Now, Hamas' guidelines are helping Israel as well* This just demonstrates that Israel was right.

Do you mean by peace the returning of the refugees to Israel?

I salute and support her in her endeavour and wish her all the luck that she will need. However I fear that she will be only a lone voice in the wilderness. But hope springs eternal provided that one is a realist and not a dreamer.

As i pointed out to Danite. This is a long and protracted conflict and still in its infancy. The conflict is essentially one between Islam wanting homogeny in all of the Middle east for starters. Palestine, Palestinians all buzz words with no maening to them other than Land that islam wants. Than you have the jewish people who want to live in pece on all of their land. Their Homeland since time immemmorial with their history and holy places. You can not reconcile these-Other than to create two distinct entities-One Jewish (Hebrew) and the other Arab(Islamic)and you place a barrier between them-The Jordan River and the Sinai.wth the Arab population in Jordan and Egypt and the Jews in Judea and Samaria. Kim- if Isarel loses the battle Europe will be next and God Help us All. Thanx for your unswerving support.

You continue to spout your usual dementia in the service of destroying Israel via the right of return.Israel will never agree to it.You know that, but you are suffering from the the delusion of seeking "victory" over Israel.You are a real phony Khalid.

Again with that doom and gloom scenario of yours. You say 5-10 years I say another 100 year war or even eternal war. Wall or no Wall,. Retreat or no retreat. You have in essence two claims to the same Land. The Arabs on Pan arab grounds and the Jews on Nationalistic grounds. And never the twain shall meet. The only solution is a Two State Solution. Jordan for the Arabs Judea and samaria for the Jews. And do not be so squeemish I am only advocating a population exchange between the two not a transfer.

As you see Yoram.Short and sweet...

Out the *Pa¨* squatters. They should go back to their countries, where they have their land. they should stop trying to steal the Israelis' land.

Joe(Yusuf) What happened? Did you find many restrictions in the good ole'US of A? Hmmmm???

How could you honestly request the palestinian refugees to respect agreements whICh deny their right to return home? What kind of morality is yours? The agreements you are mentioning have less value than WC paper in the eyes of the Palestinian refugees. Give them their rights, and then speak about agreements. PEACE WILL BE THE FRUIT OF JUSTICE (iSAIAH 32:17).

*From the way Hamas officials have behaved since their election, it is clear that Hamas understands that the table tennis cannot be only military. Now, it is trying to inject a new element, a political one, into the game. It wrote in the guidelines that the Palestinian cause has an Arab and Islamic dimension, and a Hamas-led government will work to mobilize Arab and Islamic support for the Palestinian people in every field. * This means the military element will remain. And they have now introduced a *political* element. Which can this new element consist of? It wrote in the guidelines that the Palestinian cause has an Arab and Islamic dimension,* This element is not new. Hamas charter says that the *Pals* are part of the Arab and Islamic nation. *and a Hamas-led government will work to mobilize Arab and Islamic support for the Palestinian people in every field* Here we have the *political* element: to mobilize the Arab and Islamic world in support of the *Pals*. Hamas charter states that what they are doing is a part of the global jihad. And this reminds me of Abbas statements to thousands of supporters who gathered to greet him when the *Pals* occupied Gaza: *The small jihad has ended. . Major Jihad has begun * *We must remember that our achievements are the result of the sacrifices of the martyrs* *The martyrs have paved the road for us.* *The sacrifices of the martyrs, the wounded and the detainees, made the occupation leave Gaza and evacuate the settlements. "This step will be followed by further withdrawals from the West Bank and Jerusalem.*

You state: "Look further back in history and you see something interesting. A time when these gangs didn`t exist, but terror still did." And since the Zionist Jews are the ones who have sought to turn back the pages of history 2000 years, let's look even further back in time. In the histories of Israel and the Jews that I have read - even ones written by historians very sympathetic to the Jews - it is acknowledged that when the Jews rose up against their Greek and Roman occupiers, they made no effort to differentiate between occupying soldiers and Greek and Roman civilians when it came to slaughtering the hated foreigners. And the Jewish Sicarii, before they holed up in Masada and sat out the last few years of the great revolt against the Romans while others went down fighting, were busily engaged in killing off other Jews with whose politics they disagreed, civilians and all History really has no convenient starting point for anyone's side.

She is a brave woman and the beginning of a rennaissance for muslims,but it will be a battle with the hardliners.

Wow. You solve the problem so easily. Stop the colonization, give up a Jewish State bring back all of the Palesttinian refugees. You are truly a brilliant strategist. Israel should commit National suicide. it's amazing how subtle the leftist anti-semites have become. Let Israel die out but allow other nations, Iran, Syria and the Sudan to exist in their present form. Your ideas are truly amazing.

Israel is obviously the most democratic and just society in the world. If Amira Hass is criticizing Hamas and the Palestinian resistance israel must be doing something great. Ms. Hass you begrudgingly give Israel credit for playing chess to Hamas's ping pong. Iguess we must be happy for small gestures. Maybe Amira you will join the ranks of the ultra nationalistic Israelis.

Anyone who thinks their will be peace with Arabs who strap bombs on their children needs to get their head examined. We know this is an issue Amira likes to avoid. But doesn't Palestinian child abuse bother her. Or does this not fit her propaganda. By the way Amira. In the last 12 years. Not one single Hamas, Islamic Jihad or Fateh leader ever sent there son or daughter to be a homicide bomber. I guess they dont believe their 72 virgins lie. www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=99839 Hamas Launches Web Site Encouraging Kids to Become 'Martyrs' March 7, 2006

Reading Ms. Hass's article reminds me of my friends who have kids. The kid drools endlessly but of course that is a sign of brilliance! And of course the kid can do nothing wrong,ever. Amira presents the standard drivel that Israel after Oslo did not "negotiate" with the Palestinians after Oslo, but "dictated" to them, which is incredibly naive. Throughout history countries in the superior position have dictated or influenced terms of settlement, especially after having been attacked or havinh had war imposed on them. After WWII the Americans did not say it was ok for the Nazis to continue to run the German government or the Japanese to continue to worship the emperor. Amira wants to ignore the key point that had the arabs accepted the partition of Palestine in 1947 none of the wars, suffering and death would have occurred. They wanted the whole country then, and they want the whole country now.And Hamas does not contradict that.

I think that without the return of the Palestinian refugees we Jews will never have peace in the region. We will just have more and more problems, not only in Israel, but also worldwide... I will continue repeating my conviction until the last moment of my life. PEACE WILL BE THE FRUIT OF JUSTICE (Isaiah 32:17).

To the contrary, it is Israel that maintains a state of war against Palestinian civilians by maintaining the violent Israeli occupation. Hamas has extended the olive branch of a cease-fire for the last year while Israel continues to make war as usual. Arafat and Fatah's lack of success in persuading Israel to end the violence of occupation through peaceful means has shown that, unfortunately, Hamas was right to reject Oslo. Arafat was played for a fool then made a scapegoat by Israel while Palestinian civilians suffered ever more cruelly under Israeli occupation.

What do you think the new element, the *political* element can be? Hamas says: "The Palestinian cause has an Arab and Islamic dimension, and a Hamas-led government government will work to mobilize Arab and Islamic support for the Palestinian people in every field. * Doesn't it reminds you of Hamas charter? And they call it *political*. I sent a long post on the matter but it has not been published yet.

That's all Amira had to say instead of giving us an analysis of the obvious. The question for Palestinians how best to get from A to B--we, including Israeli's, know where B is. The fundamental issue is the power equation that today has Israel expanding and commiting war crimes at will. Let's not kid ourselves, if Palestinians had an army like Egypt does, there would be no occupation and Israeli's would be withdrawing instead of expanding. Amira Hass is a good reporter but this conflict is not as complicated as her analysis would indicate. There is no solution to this conflict simply because Israeli's have the power to do as they pleace in the occupied territories. The minute that equation changes, is when peace for the Israeli's becomes an option. That was proven true in the Sinai, Lebanon and Gaza. Unfortunately, Zionists are playing a sum zero game and Amira is right, Israel is playing chess--THAT'S BECAUSE IT CAN--since it controls the chessboard on both sides.

Hello Ben Gurion, hope you having been keeping well these past weeks! Tell me Ben, arent we essentially talking in the wind here?The facts are no negotiations are going to get anywhere, and to me Hamas cant be taken seriously at this time.Let them agree to Taba and no right of return before negotiations and then we can talk.My point being is that dont you think we are heading for deadly gridlock? Eevn if Olmert goes into coalition with Labor, what can Labor do in that sitaution anyway? Should they even get involved and ruin their reputation with Kadima?I think it ia quite clear that Hamas is keeping cool untill after the elctions, I think one week with Olmert and Abbas will resign and the trouble will start.We are in for at least another 5-10 years of conflict dont you think?? As usual regards.Danite

Thanks for your advices. We wiil begin to implement beginning 08:00.Any similar suggestions are welcome, don't hesitate to present them to us.

I guess the Jews will just have to pass on your generous peace offering Patrick. What bothers me about your outrageous comments is that while you cheer on the Palestinians to war, they end up paying with their lives. Your clarion call would have more meaning if you were the one to stand at the front line prepared to catch a bullet, instead of posting from the comfort of your living room in New York. Are you really a friend to the Palestinians Patrick, asking them to continue a hopeless fight, which they have no chance of winning? With advice from uncompromising "friends" like you Patrick, the Palestinians will end up in the dust bin of history permanently. -B-

It's almost impossible for one individual to pose as a "thinking being" while at the same time dibursing moronic liturgy by the "deadhead" method. Zeev, you are my hero! You have singlehandedly set back rational thought to the Middle Ages. And, to my chagrin, your hand never gets tired.

becouse she lives in Gaza. Any critic of palestinians will get he killed. She will never G-d forbid critisize palestinians.

murdering Jews.

Sorry. I misunderstood your question. I thought you meant what TV. memri is a great publication. they transcribe sermons, speeches, articles, etc. in the Muslim world. ---- *Attacks on Arab-American Psychologist Wafa Sultan: Islamist Sheikh on Al-Jazeera Calls Her Heretic; Syrian Sermon Calls Her Infidel* http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=subjects&Area=reform&ID=SP110706

Boot all Israeli colonizers out of the occupied territories, end the Israeli occupation, recognize all Palestinian rights including the right of return of Palestinian refugees, make full reparations to Palestinians, take the racism out of Israel's Basic Law by making Israel a state of all it's people instead of a Jewish state, establish war-crimes tribunals to bring all Israeli war criminals to justice, and agree to nuclear disarmament. That's all it will take for Israel to find peace.

I think I did, although it was very late and I was tired.- I'll now gave it a look again.

It was in Al-Jazeera Here you have the video tapes http://switch5.castup.net/frames/20041020_MemriTV_Popup/video_480x360.asp?ai=214&ar=1050wmv&ak=null http://www.memritv.org/search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=783#

Kim Just went back and found the site where she appeared.It was at "Memri".But if you have further websites please let me know.What I want to see is the Video again. Thank you And Please Ha'aretz Let Kim help me...

Hi Kim Just sent one to Tulip telling her just what you said.I also informed her that Itried to send you the message which was not put out sorry to say.That was a few weeks ago.What I cannot remember,did i see it on Al-Jazeera,or at Arutz Sheva.And yes,we did have the subtitles in english.She was born in Syria-Alepo remember.Oh now I remember,it wasn't at Arutz Sheva but at an Arab station.When I went back a few days later to see her again,of course they had changed the programme.That's right,Al-Jazeera or another Arab station definitely... p/s Ha'aretz let Kim read this. I need an address from her. thank you.

Ok, you can call this also justice, respect, equality whatsoever-it`s what we all want-all human beings on being on earth. No superiority-only equality!Wow-rhymes!!!! That`s what we mean.

Yesturday's disasterous show of force by the IDF leads us once again to confront that the semi independance of the Palestinians is nothing but an illusion which we find convenient...it makes us feel like there is parity between the two parties and that Palestinians are responsible for this kind of military action. Occupation is a delicate balance between allowing freedoms and denying them. God forbid that Hamas and others figure this out and simply disolve the PLC with a simple statement like "we are a people under occupation and therefore this Legislative Council is a hoax perpetrated on the Palestinian People." This very simple step would return complete responsibility of the Territories to Israel and reaffirm the right of Hamas to return to their resistance...this might not be the best course for Palestine's future but it is a worst case scenario for Israel...I think it qualifies as "be careful what you wish for, you may get it."

Hi Tulip Sorry to butt in,but I sow it,and I don't remember whether it was in Al-Jazeera or at Arutz Sheva.She spoke in arabic,but we had the subtitles in english.She didn't mention anything about the PALs,just about the decline of Islam and she voiced everything I usually say here myself.It was absolutely riveting.She really argued all the points about women's indignity,about Israel and the injustices against it,etc,etc.I was wondering if Kim has seen it.I think at the time(a few weeks ago)had informed Kim,but the response was not put out! Anway Tulip,thought I'd inform you...

do you teach them to love their neighbors, the Palestinians?If you teach them to respect, I take everything back but why are they so full of hate?This is not a matter of genetics, seems they are incited.So indeed it`s not their fault, they are victim of the occupation as everybody else.

perhaps you missed the op-ed yesterday, where an Israeli father, who's son was killed by Palestinians, discussed the issue of children's deaths in this conflict. In case you hadn't realized it, this is neither chess, ping-pong, or any other game. Real lives are at stake here. The goal is to save lives, not pursue real politic and create never ending games within games.

The Charter was change in a 1996 (I think) vote taken in the presence of Bill Clinton, on the happy occasion of his visit to Gaza. Netanyahu was the one insisting on the change, and considered it legitimate. The change was made in the form of appending to the charter a letter to Clinton detailing the specific articles and clauses that were no longer valid. Gee, you live under the impression that most people are idiots. Most people know that British mandate is over, but not you. You know best. Same thing here. Sorry to wake you up. Now you can go to sleep again.

Ben its a clever strategy but it fails as you presume things will happen and if they do then maybe there will be a positive result. But if it doesnt and with Hamas holding a gun to the head of Abbas,Israel,not Ben Gurion has to take full responsibility. Fine so we have options later.But later is too late. No need to take this type of risk. Hamas was picked and has the responsibility. It is for israel to explain what a neighbour next door is with a Charter calling for its destruction. I can fault Israel big time for the inability to broadcast loud and clear what the Palestinians voted for and selling it to the world market.

The *Pals* rejected Judea and Samaria, Gaza and East Jerusalem when it was offered to them in 2000. They had been saying they wanted those territories. But when the territories were offered to them in Camp David, this made them leave the talks and start a bloody intifada. This shows that they had just been fooling the people and having fun at their expense.

Kim, I think the first video came actually from me, and then you noted to the second one. Could you give me the link again from this one? But I meant, did you read the Arutz Sheva parts 1,2,3 I posted?

BG You say that in 1988 the PLO changed its charter and recognized Israel.You are still fooled BG.That was just a big sham and you know it.Even after the big deal in the White House with that miserable Arafat no sooner he shook hands with Mr.Rabin off he went and proceded to go to Jordan(?)and renegued on all that was supposed to be understood.With his double speak,one in English for global consumption and the other in arabic.Please BG try not to get confused on this issue. The Hamas charter is the "Raison D'etre" as far as they are concerned--whichever way you term it.And do we not know that they are definitely an offshoot of the "Muslim Brotherhood" And you still hope they will abandone it? Wishful thinking.Unless you know more than you are telling us here...

Why are you not interested in the happiness of your people. Take them out from opression, degredation, occupation, racism,checkpoints etc Move to Jordan and take Hamas and these people with you. END THE OCCUPATION OF JEWISH SOVEREIGN LAND.

I believe you are right - according to the late Mr Arafat, the first Jewish suicide bomber was Samson and he was Jewish! (Samson of the Bible...... thousands of years ago) Do you know the story? Look it up I have read other comments here which answer your accusation more than they need, though I do not think you would ever be convinced whatever was said. I know the history you speak of but you missed the whole picture - those that choose that path were always in the minority and no one rejoiced in their choice. One comment - Never have jewish youth been trained to become suicide bombers targeting indiscrimately defenseless men, woman and children on a bus. Have you ever heard of it? And the glory of it - we saw you rejoice on TV. I never rejoice when I see death or violence in any nationality. It is a sad fact that today most terrorism in the world today is done in the name of Islam and most of it is the bombing and killing of innocents. Terrorism must be condemned by all.

Ronny Wolman is as assimilated as it gets. Not an educated fellow in the least. Knows no Hebrew and has never been to Israel although he hails from Britain and in close proximity to Israel. He also hates his parents for giving birth to him as a Jew (although he left it ages ago) If you do not believe me ask him. All of a sudden he has become an expert on Judaism and Israel and the Middle East.

Good for you, Amira. Your keen insight is refreshing. Unfortunately in real politique, it's not a ping pong game but a chess game that counts. It's also less bloody. A good chess game on the part of Hamas would be to accept Israeli unilatteral withdrawal not as a final peace arrangement but as a new basis for the next chess game. It does not require to change any charter, yet it's better to have more territory than less territory to negotiate. It would also take the wind out of Israeli sails that there is noone to negotiate. In reciprocity, Hamas could declare the end to terrorist attacks on civilians within the Green Line. Israel would be then hard pressed by the international community to make further concessions and both the Israeli and the Palestinian population could relax for a while from constant harrassment. But...it takes two to a good chess game.

* I doubt many members of Hamas were born in Israel + I also doubt it because Hamas is a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood, from Egypt.

Islam's Destiny will be the same as HAMAN . In Yechezkel ( Ezekial ) chapter 38 It is written that a confederation of Islamic countries will attack Israel with the intention of fulfilling the instruction of the Hadith - the destruction of Israel . G-D ( The creator of the universe Blessed be his holy NAME ) will defeat all this army of Jew haters on the mountains of Israel . His WORD proclaims the full Restoration of Israel and the Jewish people . While the Koran and Hadith command the destruction of Israel and the Jewish people . Not the same god . The god of Islam is not the G-D of Abraham , Isaac , Jacob and Israel as much as Islam would have you believe . It is the moon god , the desert god of muhammed's time and before . One of the 365 deities worshipped in the kabba stone , the stone of death , muhammed chose the moon god for muslims to worship .The creation instead of the CREATOR . Idolatry in all its ugliness , due to receive ultimate judgement . Muslims , FLEE IDOLATRY .

Hamas Charter is relevant,Ben. It states Hamas intentions. There is not point in waiting until they moderate.They are saying with their charter what they believe in. If Israel was run by fundamentalists and had Samaria and Judea as their absolute demand,I would also firmly complain but its not.We have pragmatists at the helm. These pragmatists want a secure Israel first. I agree with that. If Hamas changed from fundamentalists to pragmatists ok.But we would all have to be convinced. A dropping of the Charter would have brought the situation to a different level. Israel doesnt have a second chance.Its too vulnerable to take any chance.

The Palestinians do not need to love the Jews, but they are LEGALLY bound to accept the signed agreements of previous Palestinian governments. In particular they must also agree to obey UN Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338, which explicitly state that Israel has the RIGHT to live within "secure and recognized boundaries free from threats and acts of force". So far Hamas has insisted that Israel does not have the right to exist at all, and that they are not in any way bound by agreements signed by previous Palestinian governments. There are not two classes of signatories here Zeev, Class A and Class B, where Class B signatories, the Palestinians, can break their word whenever they feel like it! You may believe that universal love and justice is the answer, but I have lower standards and simply expect Palestinians to honor their SIGNED agreements. -B-

Hello, Tulip. Yes, I read your posts about Wafa Sultan. They had been discussed about two days ago. Did you see the video tapes. If not let me know. There are two, one of this year and the other of last year. They are worth hearing even if you don't know Arabic (there are subtitles in English): the lady is so powerful. Do you know some sheiks have declared them blasphemous and heretic?

Amira has it wrong. There's only one game in town where the Palestinians are concerned and that is best shown in the way Abbas handled the concerns of the British and the Americans over those imprisoned in Jericho. Abbas was warned in writing six days before the event of the serious situation and Abbas in his characteristic fashion did nothing. His refusal to enforce any agreement ever made with Israel means that he is no different to the fuehrers running Hamas.

Propaganda is Myopia,and Myopia is a Middle East sickness.Refugees came from all over. I am not going to argue the Palestinian/muslim case but there many issues to this story. Look for truth not just a magnified viewpoint of what suits us. In our religion we must question.

Hi Zmogus , May I suggest that you look up on line " THE HADITH " The Islamic operations manuel ( commentary on the Koran ) and you will change your mind as to the Agenda of Islam .

Hi R Harris of London , May I suggest that you Look up on the web "THE HADITH" and you may change your attitude . Read Also the Statements of all leaders of Islam and they will confirm every thing I stated .

And therefore it does not matter if Hamas would change its charter, for they will never change their stances.

no god joke, AIPAC is the new Tokio Rose !!

Still in exile in Geneva? Justice exists apparently.

"The PLO changed its charter in 1996(?), after first recognizing Israel in 1988." Did they now? Care to show us a copy of this 'changed' charter? There are only the 1964 charter which rennounces all claim to Gaza, West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Golan, and the 1968 charter where they claim everything. There is no 1996 charter it does not exist.

Jabadini Do you really expect the Palestinians to love the zionists after the destruction of 80% od their localities and their expulsion for the only crime of being non-Jews? Do you really expect the Palestinians to love the zionists after aprooting of thousands of their olive tress? Be realistic. You can ask the Palestinian to love the zionists and your similars only when you do justice to them and allow their return ot their homes and lands. Never before. PEACE WILL BE THE FRUIT OF JUSTICE (Isaiah 32:17).

Have you not seen what they teach their children which the EU pays for. I even have clips of Palestinians children on tv singing songs about jihad, suicide bombers and killing jews. this is the reason why thy hate us more now then ever education and brainwashing.

The 3 about Arutz Sheva interview with Wafa Sultan?

Amira has finally listened, and attempted to write an analytical article, but you had to ruin the day for her. You say that if Abbas has any dignity he will quit. If Abbas had any dignity, he would not have associated with Arafat who was a terrorist and a totally corrupt leader. Yet it is not for you to say what the elected president of the PA should do. Israel has no intention of arresting all Palestinians, only those that demonstrably have carried out acts of terror. Nor does Israel have any itentions of creating any concentration camps. That would be a violation of all moral standards, and would violate Israeli and Jewish ethics. Do you really think that Israel takes great pleasure in the situation that has prevailed for the past sixty years? You would be wrong to think so. All that Israelis want is to live in peace and have a decent life. But if you refuse to negotiate, and if you make unreasonable demands, then Israel will act accordingly.

So are you saying you wish Israel didn't arrest and kill Palestinian terrorists? It always amazes me just how much the FauxModerates identity with the most depraved and wicked elements of Palestinian society. Wouldn't it be better to energize and support those who have a clear moral understanding of the sanctity of human life?

The refusal of the duly elected Hamas government in the Palestinian Territories to recognize that Israel has the RIGHT to live within "secure and recognized boundaries free from threats and acts of force" is a violation of UN Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338. Palestine is now in the position of being an OUTLAW NATION. The Hamas led government must recognize ALL previous agreements signed by Palestinian governments, or Israel will have every right to declare its own obligations under those agreements as null and void. Palestinians cannot continue to obey International Law only when convenient, and violate it whenever it is not! -B-

First, Yaacov stands up and says that the Palestinians voted in HAMAS because they were against the corrupt kleptocracy developed by the 'Tunisians' brought in by Yasser Arafat. Now, he declares that it wasn't the Palestinains who decided to vote out the bastards, but really a secret plot by those "Jews", who really didn't want a moderate like Abu Mazen, which would require them to come to an agreement with the Palestinians. It's amazing that Yaacov keeps up the canard that Israel "needs more land" AFTER, it withdrew from Gaza, taking all Jews, both living and dead. His whining about the Jericho raid is more of the same. Only yesterday, Ha'Aretz published the facts that HAMAS has already been releasing members of Islamic Jihad, arrested by the so-called moderate government of Abbas. HAMAS then declared that it intended to release the six held in Jericho. But all that too, according to Yaacov, is Israel's fault.

I doubt many members of Hamas were born in Israel and they are never going to live there. It's time for them to make do with the measly 99.5% of the middle east under Muslim control.

Brian; Usually it's "Vancouver spin" on Israel & Israelis that flows from your prosaic pen. Something tells me you're not too keen on Jews either??????

you need some lessons in history!! (and tolerance)

Another thing If they were refugees, which they are not, and had the right to live in Israel, why do they want Gaza, Judea and Samaria and East Jerusalem for? Would they all move into the Green Line and leave Gaza, Judea and Samaria and East Jerusalem empty? The intention seems clear to me. It is not only what their charter says. Israel should not move an inch backwards. If they attack, Israel retaliates and they can go complain as much as they like.

"let the Israelis arrest all Palestinians and turn the Occupied Territories into concentration camps." I am sure you would like that. You would like Palestinian people to suffer so that you'll have your "case".

Amira Haas is the Tokyo Rose of the Palestinians. The only difference is that she is based in Israel and is allowed to broadcast from the country she wants to destroy. It's as if Tokyo Rose had been allowed to write for the New York Times. It's sad.

You have a lot to say about Jew using "terrorism" early on with the likes of the Stern Gang, the Irgun, etc. Look further back in history and you see something interesting. A time when these gangs didn't exist, but terror still did. I bring you to the Arabs riots of 1920, 1929, and 1936-37 brought on mostly by rumors by the friebrand Imam Husseini. The result? Civilian Palestinian Jews slaughtered in the streets in Hebron, Jerusalem, and Tzfat. Their homes seized and synagogues turned into sheep dens. Even Gush Katif, which was Jewish for hundreds of years, was vacated in order to save lives. If this isn't terrorism, I don't know what is. But it certain came before the Stern Gang existed. And the ironic point? Many Jews chose NOT to arm themselves because they TRUSTED their Arab neighbors. Hmmm. The final statement from the Arab league? "Declare a State, and your blood will run through the streets!" And they tried. I leave you now with this thought. Good night.

I can send you the videos of Al-Jazeera, where this lady demonstrates that terrorism was invented by Muhammad.

Show me one nation in the world that when offered a state on 97% of territory they claim for, prefers to turn it down, to abolish the already existing authority it has on part of the territory and prefer to continue to live under foreign rule. It must be a mental ill nation .

Ronnie, perhaps your observation that nobody is talking about the Hamas Charter should give you a clue? Clue: The Hamas charter is less important that it looks. "Written law" tends to be superceded by "oral law". It is hardest to change the written law, and easier to re-interpret it. We do not even hope to change the wording of the Torah, even though much of it fits seven century BC ideas and earlier. Remember "an eye for an eye"? Very prominent in Hamurabi's code. The rabbis changed the meaning to imply monetary compensation. Remember the Promised Land from the Nile (or Wadi el-Arish) to the Euphrates? That's only when the Messiah shows up. The PLO changed its charter in 1996(?), after first recognizing Israel in 1988. You don't start with the hardest part, Ronnie. Better start with the easy part, gain some momentum, then go for the hardest part.

From what I have read, the refugees in Gaza were also Egyptians from when Egypt occupied that territory and Egypt doesn?t now want them. When Israel took Gaza, Egypt must have been very glad to get rid of certain people. So I suppose Jordan left Jordanians in Judea and Samaria. Besides there are Syrians, as you say. Moreover, I have also read that after the 1948 war, the UN registered many people from other countries as *refugees*. So they can get more money from the international community. And also, knowing the *Pals* intentions, the more *refugees*, the more pressure on Israel. The thing reached a point where the Red Cross said it was not the matter to inscribe all the poor from Arab countries as *Pal refugees*. *Gaza is now occupied by the Arabs why are there still refugee camps same for the major Arab cities in Judea and Samaria.* That?s what I ask myself and can imagine the answer. They stay there so they can say the territory is theirs, and the *refugee problem* is perpetuated. The same for East Jerusalem. And also, as it seems, for Israel proper. Have you observed how the *Pals* call the Israeli Arabs *Israeli Palestinians?, which is also done by some Israeli Arabs? *Economics brought the squatters in* That?s what I have also read. As soon as the Jews started developing their lands, a lot of Arabs emigrated there. And they have also bitten the hand that feeds them. I now remember that when the Haifa port was being built, the Arab workers launched and uprisal and took to killing Jews.

KO,for me its to do with security for Israel and also truth. There are many sides to this story and one of them is the charter and then there are all the other issues. Amira Hass has a purpose and its good.Israel needs checks and balances but so does Amira.

Terrorism always did exist. Pals didn't invent it, just popularized it for the modern world. Let's take a look at what the Pals brought the rest of the world 1968: The first Arab-Israeli hijacking, as three members of Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) hijack an El Al plane to Rome. 1970, September: As part of the Dawson's Field hijackings, PFLP members attempt to hijack four aircraft simultaneously. The fourth attack on an El Al plane by two people including Leila Khalid is foiled by armed guards aboard. 1976: The Palestinian hijack of Air France Flight 193 airliner is brought to an end at Entebbe Airport, Uganda 1977: A Palestinian hijack of a Lufthansa airliner Landshut during its flight from Palma de Mallorca to Frankfurt is ended in Mogadishu 1985: Palestinians take over EgyptAir Flight 648 and fly it to Malta The Pal exploits opened up this method to others as a popular venue, like Sri Lankans, Lebanese Shia and Kashmiris, for instance.

"The first draft of the guidelines stated that a Hamas-led Palestinian government would be willing to seriously consider the principle of negotiations if Israel would recognize the rights of the Palestinian people and provide guarantees of a full withdrawal from the territories it occupied in 1967, including East Jerusalem." - Amira Hass First "guaranteeing" withdrawl and only then negotiating? (Notice, no actual withdrawl first.) Let us recall what happened between Rabin and Syria. Hafez Assad insisted on guaranteed withdrawl from the Golan BEFORE negotiations. Eventually, Rabin gave a "guarantee" to Clinton, not Assad, that Israel will give back the Golan (the so-called Rabin deposit). Given that we have already a very reasonable model of an agreement, the Geneva Accords, which brings Israel back to the 1967 borders up to some territorial exchange, the Hamas condition is not unprecedented nor a deal-buster. I am not saying Israel should accept it as is, but it is not way off.

The inertness described here is instructive. Arafat couldn't move to the final agreement stage, without abandoning his Pan-Arab and Pan-Islamic aliies/rivals, in the greater Arab/Muslim world. For this to happen, Palestinians will have to internalize the idea that history and geography have tied their own well-being to the well-being of the Israeli state. A Palestine in conflict with Israel will look like Gaza today. A Palestine at peace with Israel will look like Israel. There is no Palestinian leadership that can admit to these facts in public. So, insead of constructive solutions, they get corruption, vacillation, and conflict.

"You seem to ignore the basic fact that land owned by someone," And you seem to ignore that fact that it wasn't. Name one treaty or international law that says that is doesn't belong to Israel, because I have 4 that say it does and that includes the UN Charter. Try reading it and maybe you won't be so ignorant.

I'll re-state my point since it appears to have been taken wrongly. I didn't mean that Pals invented terrorism - certainly even before Israel became a State, Egyptians fundamentalists used suicide bombings against the British. The point being made was how fashionable the Pals have made it as an acceptable "resistance" tactic. 1) Because it does sow terror. We saw it work well in London and Spain already. 2) Being a common method, the world has begun to accept these type of terror tactics as "normal". Hell, when a movie about two suicide terrorists make it to the Oscars, you know the world has become complacent! Airplane hijackings? 100% Palestinian!

Actually, I never claimed to be a Quran student. I made a comment, and unlike most on this post, I admit when I get the facts wrong. So instead of the Quran calling to break deals with non-Muslims, it was really the Hadith and Sharia Law. A small mistake, but the underlining result is still there: Muslims have one law for themselves and one law for others (whom they see as below them), and the PA broke their promise yesterday which apparently the world forgives, and condemns Israel. However, you can do your own research with less than 30 minutes and see how many terror groups in the world today have Palestinians involved. The "resistance" may have started innocently enough, but now became the Pals biggest export! Japs may have started with kamikazes and boms, but Pals made it fashionable for the modern terrorist! That's the point I was making.

Most Jews like to repeat the same lies until they and others believe it. Israel was born in terrorism and its leaders are all well known international terrorists. However the US always cover for them, because the US capital is an Israeli occupied territories. I think the Palestinians should tear up all of their agreements with Israel and flush it down the toilet, this were agreements with Israel belong. And let Israel start all over without having the excuse of agreements it never did honor. If Abbas has any sense of dignity he quit and with him all of this bullshit government under occupation, and let the Israelis arrest all Palestinians and turn the Occupied Territories into concentration camps.

The refusal of the duly elected Hamas government in the Palestinian Territories to recognize that Israel has the RIGHT to live within "secure and recognized boundaries free from threats and acts of force" is a violation of UN Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338. Palestine is now in the position of being an OUTLAW NATION. The Hamas led government must recognize ALL previous agreements signed by Palestinian governments, or Israel will have every right to declare its own obligations under those agreements as null and void. Palestinians cannot continue to obey International Law only when convenient, and violate it whenever it is not! -B-

It amazes me to no end that rational people still consider any arab refugees. Refugees from where? Until 1967 Judea, Samaria and Gaza were ruled by Jordan and Egypt. So called refugees existed in both.I guess the "refugees" in Gaza were refugees from Judea and Samaria and Vise Versa. Gaza is now occupied by the Arabs why are there still refugee camps same for the major Arab cities in Judea and Samaria. I am very confused as who are the refugees. But in any case they are originally refugees from either Syria or Egypt so why do they not return there. I guess the Jews don't want them in their midst so why force themselves on the Jews. Economics brought the squatters in : Economics should drive them out.

Which Israeli aggression? Is it an aggression to arrest terrorists and keep them in jail or to kill them? . And it is not aggression to launch qassams at Israel, to stab people or to blow themselves up killing people. Funny way to see things

Just like Amira may be blind to the charter,many are blind to other issues.Its this diffusion of truth that cannot bring us further. Yes we have the status quo in our control but what about the dead babies that will ensue? I say protect ourselves from Islamic fundamentalism but know that not every Palestinian is for it,many hate Israel for the pain they suffer daily. While the answers are very limited to the problems,we must see the truth.It is the only way out of this circle of death.

Jews can spin the media any way they like but ion hte end justice will prevail and the Palestinians will disappoint the jews by getting a state that they think is the size they,not the jews,deem acceptable.The rest of the world isn't emotionally caught up in the outcome and don't fall for the jew spin doctors.

"As for taking the land, it's ours" Well this statement must be the product of years of training in law. I seem to believe that the Red Army and the GErman army applied that maxim to the many cultural artifacts they chanced upon after various populations either fled or were cowed. You seem to ignore the basic fact that land owned by someone, lived on by someone and worked by someone cannot just be given. Even in the vaguely civilised states of hte world, like the US, the tenets of law apply to purchase and sale (forgetting of course the wholesale land expropriations from the native INdians)

"Suicide bombing and highjacking of planes were not a Palestinian invention. Terror was not a Palestinian invention." Maybe you are right, but you have brought it to an unprecedented barbaric level and to a philosophy of life. It was you who began and tried to steal the land the UNO had legally granted to the entity and to exterminate its people.The terror didn't start at all by blowing the King David hotel, it started in 1929 and 1936 in Hebron, when the arabs killed their jewish neighbours in a well organized pogrom. Israel doesn't shoot at little children and we deplore every one that is killed by mistake, after your "brave" fighters are hiding and opening fire from among them. We don't make those grotesque parades as your assasins are making whenever one of your killers explodes amids a crowded bus of children.

"I am not saying that there were non, but not so many either" - what a good job, since you'd be trying to state a historical fallacy. The number is probably somewhere near a few hundred thousand displaced in 1948. Have you ever wondered why the Tapu, or land records from the Mandate Administration have not been made available by the Israeli state? Perhaps because these records would show details on the 98% of the country which was not bought by the Yishuv, but which was transferred to Jewish ownership by the state after declaring the inhabitants (both present and absent) to be "absentees"

Israel has negotiated and conceded too much in exchange for more slaughter. Even during the Oslo accords, the *Pals* were murdering Israelis while Israel was making concessions.

*These organizations, with their suicide attacks and their Qassam rockets, painted the Palestinians as the aggressor, just as Israel's propaganda claimed.* Exactly, their attacks depict them as the aggressors, which is what they are. They attack Israel and still Amira Hass calls it propaganda.

*They set conditions for Israel, or threatened to "avenge" or "act" or "respond," in precisely the arena where there is no doubt of Israel's superiority: force of arms, the ability to kill and destroy. * So Amira Hass recognizes the *Pals* are stupid fanatics. Because they should not expect Israel to stay idle when they attack it and murder Israelis.

William you are not at all correct in what you say...Japanese soldiers in WW2 strapped explosives to themselves to blow open paths through barb wire...Sri Lamka learned from the Palestinians.. P

Hamas has says it doesn?t recognize the accords signed by the PA and Israel. It has made it clear that, by them, the accords are null and void. Yet they want to fool Israel into believing they will honor new accords. Hamas has no credibility. On the other hand, while Israel has always started meeting its compromises in the accords, the *Pals* have done nothing so far. Not even to recognize Israel and stop terrorism. Besides, Israel doesn?t have the obligation to withdraw to the 1967 borders. The Arabs declared a war on Israel and it took those territories, which had been occupied by Egypt and Jordan since the war of 1948.

It will be democracy under the sharia law, which is what Hamas promised. Besides, according to Hamas clerics, democracy is a sin against Islam.

* they stress that resistance is a means, not an end* We know what they mean by this: they want to liberate the *occupied Palestine*, that is to say, the entire Israel.

It should come as no wonder that for Hamas the religious and cultural issues involved in their ideological motivations are front and centre.This is an Islamic fundamentalist party who views Jihad as integral to its raison detre.That this impedes their capacities to take a purely rational approach to Israel is no suprise.Heavy ideologies have been driving many on both sides form disaster to another and it looks like the trend will continue.

The *Pals* say they want their own state. At the same time, they claim the right of return should be given to them. If they had the right to live in Israel proper, what they want their own state for? They now have Gaza. The so-called *refugees* should go and move there.

The world increasingly sees the Palestinian cause as connected with international Islamic terrorism. In otherwise, the great Palestinian propaganda success which made the Palestinian Arab cause the first human rights cause is now fading. Wonderful. It was a lie to begin with and if Sharon- Olmert succeeded in proving this to the world then it is a real accomplishment for them.

When Rabinovitch, the owner of the whorehouse in Odessa came to his rabbi and complained about bad business, he mentioned that in order to increase efficiency he has repositioned beds in whores rooms. After consideration about Rabinovitch^s troubles, wise rabbi has suggested instead of reposition beds, change the whores. Is not is wise? Does it really matter how their murderous government will be formed. One thing is unavoidable ? it will be composed from different fractions of murderers. Similar to the composition of this tribe.

Common David, you read again. Don't make me laugh, do you find that she is criticizing harshly the Pals like the Israelis. Very mildly it can't be seen. Aby

Having tried (and been corrected) to justify your islamaphobia/racism on the basis of an inaccurate analysis of the Quran, you now further ratchet up your hate-filled propoganda! Suicide bombings were first used in Sri Lanka and the first hijacking was political and in South America. Hamas are by no means angels and will prove to be their own worst enemy. However, your attempt to brand the Palestinian issue with the 'clash of civilisation' brush is simply a way of turning a blind eye to the realities of the occupation and its legacy. The Palestinians were also never viewed as innocent freedom fighter (especially after Munich), but they are viewed as a dispossesed and brutalised people. I'm surprised that you didn't place Palestinian in quotation marks and deny them any last vestige of respect as a people.

Having tried (and been corrected) to justify your islamaphobia/racism on the basis of an inaccurate analysis of the Quran, you now further ratchet up your hate-filled propoganda! Suicide bombings were first used in Sri Lanka and the first hijacking was political and in South America. Hamas are by no means angels and will prove to be their own worst enemy. However, your attempt to brand the Palestinian issue with the 'clash of civilisation' brush is simply a way of turning a blind eye to the realities of the occupation and its legacy. The Palestinians were also never viewed as innocent freedom fighter (especially after Munich), but they are viewed as a dispossesed and brutalised people. I'm surprised that you didn't place Palestinian in quotation marks and deny them any last vestige of respect as a people.

What role did Israel play in getting Hamas elected? They got what they needed to get. They needed someone who went from the no partner status which they had conferred on the PA, to what Hass describes as a political bloc that can be associated with "international Islamic terrorism", lifting the conflict to the level of "clash of civilisation". It entrenches its occupation, claims its dictates were really a "geneerous offer" and now says it intends on setting up unilateral borders that will take yet more Palestinian land. It has come to the point where Israel does not know how to act as anything but an occupier and to keep it going, it needs more land, more unilateralism and to make sure that Hamas is driven to break its hudna. Jericho was one more brick in that road to cover over the Roadmap. With bricks and walls they can kill it.

What's a signed agreement anyway? Just because it is part of the Oslo Agreements we can ignore since it applies to the Arabs, right? Can you tell me where it says anywhere in any charter of any Israeli political party that calls for the destruction of anybody? As for taking the land, it's ours. We have 4 international laws stating that, and the Arabs? Can you produce one? Come on big mouth, no brains, must be British.

Hello Ronnie I read Amira's article and see nothing new or relevant.Go back to prior the 67? Is she mad,or just pandering to the people she lives among. The most important subject should be,and she never,once mentions in any of her articles is this disgusting phenmenon.Plus,the many deaths caused by her beloved terrorists to our civilian population of which she is supposed to be part of. And as you say,why doesn't she condem "Hamas Charter" which says time and again for the destruction of Israel,and we are all aware of.Unbelievable rhetoric from her slimy mouth! Naturally she wouldn't live to see the light of day if she deviated from her usual propaganda just to please those SCUMS.We/She knows this too well. I have given up on Amira and will in future desist from reading her article as much as I can.

Ronnie's right. The charter is important. This is not a secular organization was the PA but a extremist. Ms. Haas is a good writer but has childish concepts. In simple terms and not wihful thinking, Hamas changing is like the KKK taking Black membership. Let's get real here nad not talk in infantile terms.

Ronnie's right. The charter is important. This is not a secular organization was the PA but a extremist. Ms. Haas is a good writer but has childish concepts. In simple terms and not wihful thinking, Hamas changing is like the KKK taking Black membership. Let's get real here nad not talk in infantile terms.

William Suicide bombing and highjacking of planes were not a Palestinian invention. Terror was not a Palestinian invention. The Japanese kamikaze, the Tamil tigers, the red brigades, Eta, etc. have existed long before the Palestinians started their legitimate revolt against barbarism and an entity determined to steal their land and property, and slowly exterminate them. What was new was DIVERSIFIED STATE TERRORISM (DST), a pure invention of the zionists. DST where land grabbing, house demolitions, shooting at little children, destruction of infrastructure, targetting of places of worship, ambulances, and prisons.... all these divesified methods of state terrorism were new and unprecedented. Next time, get your facts right. Zionism and Israel are the source of global terrorism and at its core. It came with them to the region, it all started with the blowing up of the King David hotel, with the Irgun and the Haganah. Terror was imported to the ME by these criminal zionists.

"you`re living in their houses" Yeah, all Israelis are living in Palestinians houses. C'mon let's not be so dramatic and check the numbers of those who were actually drown out. I am not saying that there were non, but not so many either.

Once in another forum I heard the similar gibberish on Koran and even put in quotation marks. I had a look into the online Koran with word-search and surfed for "Jew(s)". The result: mentionned about dozen of times, half of the cases had venerable attitude, another one is moderately reproaching Jews for the deviation from "teachings". Where the heck did you dig this "Destruction of Jewish people" out ??? Now, Bill, won't you collect your copy-paste feel-good ideas from the racist b-sites and come back to quote the texts when you'll have some authentic piece of information to communicate to the world?

What a load of unmitigated drivel. What pathetic biased book did you copy that from? Do you feel better know after spouting some of those completely hateful and untrue expressions. Perhaps now you have written the Protocols of the Elders of Mekka, you can do another draft of the Elders of Zion.

Amira You have donr it again! How convenient to say-yes the kassams,suicide bombing etc,as: "Alegged" by the Israel.Excuse me?!?! Alleged? No the truth.Can you please refer to the "Hamas Charter"for once. Or are you afraid,I wouldn't blame you if you are.You chose to be among them,so tough luck.We all know that you'd be up the creek if you utter anything contrary to their acts and distorted visions.I give up on you,it is like a voice crying in the wilderness...

I know that Zeev is an Anti Semite and completely of his rocker but if you compare his solution to yours they are not that different. he suggests flooding Israel with so called refugees while you are calling for the retreat from Judea and Samaria thus making Israel smaller and more difficult to defend.Either solutions would spell the end of Israel especially with a large Arab population in Israel proper. Your Democratic Humanitarian mambo jumbo does not work. EXSISTENTIALISM MY DEAR.

For the umpteenth time. The charter is the least important part of the ME equation. It states the intention of the Arabs in general and Hamas in particular to destroy Israel. Sticks and stones...............but words .......me.You know this little ditty? If they abrogate the charter and continue with their murdering ways and their intentions : that is the real test. Get off that charter and go to the deeds and the deed must be of all Arabs not just Hamas.Proxies included.

The old canard of the Hamas charter is brought up by Mr Wolman. What about the old canard of the Likud charter... Did Likud recognise a Palestinian state and every single agreement negotiated with the Labour Government. This nonsensical game, repeated mindlessly by Wolman, about recognition being the crux of the matter is simply a good old Zionist tactic to deligitimise their opponents. They took the land, they took the land of "present absentees" or needarim nokhakhim to quote a Kafkaesque absurdity, they threw out more non-Jews, they transferred ownership without compensation, and Mr Wolman jumps up and down in surprise "they don't recognise us". Of course they recognise you - you're living in their houses. Political recognition is a two-way affair and it seems that neither Likud nor Kadima have changed their charters to include explicit recognition of a Palestinian state.

1. you mean let the refugees come back? 2. you mean eliminate them physically? Of course, i don't give the option "to expell them" since they are already refugees.

You see what happens to your brain when exposed to the cold swiss winter?! Take a big glass of Dead Sea water, you'll feel much better and it will at once stop hallucinations...

You say, if Palestinians stop violence, Israel will live up to agreements. May I remind that during the quiet of Oslo years there was enormous settlements expansion and that during all cease fire periods Israel continued military raids. Also Olmert's plan is a declaration of war against Palestinians since main lines are: - expanding main settlements - so cutting Palestinian territory into pieces - annexing East Jerusalem - keeping Jordan Valley under Israeli control All blatant violations of international law and agreements, including signed by Israel. So who has to live up to agreements?

I would take it if the aim of Amira Hass was to be fair, to both sides. The problem is her language is like that of a Palestinian spokesman. Palestinian words & actions are said to "play into the hands of Israeli propaganda" or to "give Israel a pretext or an opportunity to pursue its already illegitimate policies & intents". There's never a cunning strategy or a real wrong ascribed to what the Pals do, at worst they may be guilty of a mistake. The suicide bombings f.ex. are only "not helpful" & they "depict the Pals in a certain way". To be selective in this way as to what is real & what is a game, tactic or only a perception, is not credible.

One point that Amira did touch upon correctly was the link in the world view between Palestinians and Islamic global terror. However, it wasn't Israel that created the link for the world, it was the Palestinians themselves. Popularizing different types of terrorism not yet known before - suicide bombings, airplane hijackings - they became a model for lesser terror groups around the world. Not only do Palestinians give indirect moral support, but direct support as well. Most terror groups, statstically have the involvement of one to many Palestinians. They have taken their terror show on the road to bring the world their experience and knowledge in Jihad! Maybe as late as 2001 the Pals were known as innocent freedom fighters, today they are branding as manjor players in global terror. Who could expect less from a group that celebrates death with sweets, and teachers their kids the joy of suicide bombings?

Is it THAT unimportant? I have been accused of bringing it up a few times too many,but Amira NEVER brings it up. Is it not an important issue? I mean it calls for the destruction of the Zionist entity by Jihad. Is this not relevant?

The koran and the hadith command all muslims to join as one to destroy Israel and the Jewish people then the christians all who are called Infidels . Murder , terrorism and mayhem is their means as they use manipulation , intimidation and domination to achieve their stated Agenda - the destruction of the Jewish people . Negotiation is a waste of time because the very existance of Israel makes the Koran and hadith a lie and Muhammed a false prophet - This drives them mad . Ruthless force is the only thing they understand - anything else is regarded as weakness which empowers them to commit more murder of innocent men , women and children .

Amira, I can't understand, why don't you criticize Hamas led Palestian part as you are criticizing Israelis. Don't they do any wrong or Don't they deserve any critique from you. Do you ever remember that you critique the Pals. Criticizing Israeli part is very easy, since you are sure you won't be get harmed. I wonder if you have the courage, for once in your life time to criticize the Pals. Aby

Palestinian/Israeli/Refugees/right/left/un/europeans/just/unjust/oppressed/suppressors/apartheid/fanatics/hammas/plo/israel/15 year olds/sopranos chapter1245/again again,no insights,sighs,yawn,what now?zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

In facing the enmity of so-called Palestinians, Israel is dealing with just another segment of Arab Imperialism bent on exterminating a non-Arab national sovereignty in the Middle East. To Arab Imperialism, ALL of Palestine/Israel is occupied Arab territory that must be liberated, and every stage is a means to this end. Arab Imperialism is distorting and exploiting Islam, an Abrahamic religion, as a radical and militant ideology to serve its above nationalistic and genocidal agenda. Now Hamas, the religious arm of Arab Imperialism, is pretending to mellow up -- and just like its secular Baathist arm (Fatah) after Oslo -- showing signs that it will agree to exterminate the Jewish state in stages rather than at once. So what is there to negotiate? The number of stages in which we will be exterminated??? When you face an enemy that wants EVERYTHING, there is NOTHING to negotiate... You either have the power to unilaterally exercise what you want. Or you're dead. It's that simple.

Amira you are coming to ur senses but not totally yet. When u admit the terror attacks by the Palestinians are war crimes and should be prosecuted i will support ur analysis partially. However, for most Israeli's it is simple, stop terror and we are willing to give up most of the occupied territories but also live up to ur agreements and word. Sa'adat was not really imprisonened and this was against the deal with Israel. Live up to agreements like Jordan and Egypt and independence will be within reach. However, the Palestinians must also finally accept that they also can commit crimes with are in breach of international law and those who commit such crimes should be prosecuted like Israeli violators.

It's one of those rare occassions on which I can say that I completely agree with you. I can only add, that if by some miracle, money will become to flow to the Hamas government, it will not take too much time, and a great portion of it will found its way to the pockets of some leaders instead to be used for the welfare of the palestinian population. It can't be otherwise, it's against human nature. And when Hamas will become corrupt as Fatah, and no doubt it will be so, what will happen to the ordinary palestinian, all his dreams will be vanished, no country, no work, no future, none to believe in his promises. Poor creature!!

It's one of those rare occassions on which I can say that I completely agree with you. I can only add, that if by some miracle, money will become to flow to the Hamas government, it will not take too much time, and a great portion of it will found its way to the pockets of some leaders instead to be used for the welfare of the palestinian population. It can't be otherwise, it's against human nature. And when Hamas will become corrupt as Fatah, and no doubt it will be so, what will happen to the ordinary palestinian, all his dreams will be vanished, no country, no work, no future, none to believe in his promises. Poor creature!!

Amira Hass wrote: ".. it was Israel that refused to negotiate, and that even during the Oslo years, the negotiations consisted mainly of forceful Israeli dictates and Palestinian inertness and concessions. " How true ! I just add that the settlements activity and settlements population has NEVER been higher any time before as it did during the Oslo years. It shows the evil and wicked nature of this apartheid regime that can never be trusted.... but sadly, it also shows the sheer stupidy and incompetence of the Palestinain leadership (PA). That is why, a change even to Hamas, is more than welcome.

Has anyone asked whether, right of return would be supported by armed resistance, after any end to post 67 occupation? Not that it's relevant to the new reality. Which is that both Israel and "Palestine" are now taking control of their own destiny. One is replacing negotiations with a unilateral application of it's offer. The other is congratulating itself for the gains of any disengagement - as the fruits of resistance. Each will look at their own side of the fence as well. Israel has citizenship, secular/religious, Jewish status/civil union issues. Palestinians have corruption and bi-partisan/nuetral institution issues. Sometimes too much impasse/talk and relationship conflict is not good for getting on with ones own affairs. Disengagement is win win.

You don't like Hamas? Neither me. You like to end with Hamas? Me too. How to end with Hamas? Very easy. The great majority of Hamas members, including the coming Prime Minister are refugees expelled by Israel and whose homes have been destroyed by Israel. The great majority of Qassam launchers and bomb suiciders are refugees. As long as there will be refugees, there will be Hamas... and there will be Qassam rockets. End the refugees problem, and you will end Hamas.... and Qassam rockets. Hamas and Qassam are the product of injustice. end the injustice, and you end the product. PEACE WILL BE THE FRUIT OF JUSTICE (Isaiah 32:17).

The Palestinian politics of today are a repeat of yesterday. There is little if any difference between the PLO of the past and Hamas of today. This probably means we are going into another 30/40 year cycle of violence, bombings, murders, and retaliations on both sides. Sorry to say, everything changes, and everything remains the sam.

A game in which you stick to no agreements and resistance means blowing up school buses and disembowling pregnant women because they're Jewish. It doesn't bode well at all for the Palestinians.