On the three lies of Hamas

Just a correction. Turkey is not an Arab country. Indeed Turkish empires (Ottoman and Mamluk) crushed the Arabs for 600 years and demoted them to second class citizens.

As Your democracy allowed you to have fanatics and right wingers in the Keneset who advocate the expulsion and deny even the existence of Palestine and the palestinians you should allow the the Palestinians to freely chose whomever they want to represent them in their own parliament.What's kosher for you shoule be also be halal for us. Please put an end to these double standards.

My how this thread has grown! My point, and it is not a joke, is that Amira is a patriotic ISRAELI. I have not met her personally, but people who have say that she cares deeply about Israel and believes it is on a road to ruin due to disasterous leadership that refuses to tell the public the truth about what is going on in the territories. She is also very proud of her Jewish heritage and sees herself as staying true to a (threatened) Jewish liberal humanist tradition .

You call Gabe a racist just because he is against the terrorists who want to subjugate Israel, Europe, the US, Australia, etc. Are you for or against terrorism?

The self-aapointed Emperor has a new set of clothes. What happened to the voice of reason for the Palestinian cause? Must have died or never was. I had you pegged a long time ago. You are nothing more than a frustrated "Arafat" who wants to shift all his inadequacies and that of his people on the shoulders of others. You have lied to your people for over 50 years. You have hammered home the notion that it is the right of the Palestinian to get it all; Gaza, West Bank, and Israel. When will you have a leader who will set the record straight as far as expectations that will not be totally realized? It's called the truth. You pretend to be adults but act like children having a tantrum when they live the "big lie". You can't even set up a legitimate government for your own people. No law, no order, and nothing resembling a functioning governmental apparatus. All you ever say is "I want, I want, I want it all". Fact: There is no legal international agreement which guarantees the Palestinians anything more than the right to negotiate final borders with Israel. You can flip it a 100 different ways but that's a fact. And, I will not debate the issue with you because it will be fruitless. How dare you set you own rules for acceptable violence! You're such a fool. Palestinians of your ilk, that call for continued violence, will set back the quest for you own state another 50 years. Is that what you want? Is that what your people want? Your solutions are nothing more than a kinder, gentler Hamas...sic sic. Your light of hope has burned out. Too bad. From now on we'll just call you the "victim" without portfolio.

If memory servers me right, I remember reading somewhere that Israel helped to organize HAMAS in the 80's as a counter-weight to PLO. If that's what is finally happening, then why are the PLO and the Isreaeli Zionist terrorists surpirsed?!!!

The first lie of Hamas is that they are followers of Mohammed. Suicide/homicide bombers are worshippers of death; and, thus, the "idolators" scathingly condemned in the Koran. They are not followers of Mohammed inasmuch as the mission of Mohammed was to achieve Peace between Jews and Christians and Jews and Arabs by teaching the "resurrection" as a Doctrine of Rebirth, as was taught by Jesus (but not Paul), in contradiction of the doctrine of a physical resurrection from the grave taught by the Jewish and Christian religious officials. The political lies of Hamas are utterly trivial in comparison. Michael http://stopthewarwithiran.blogspot.com/

So, I guess everyone agrees that suicide bombings and the whole intifada is all a money making ploy. All of it is a big factory, but instead of producing clothes or food for their people they produce suicide bombers. If they really wanted to garner sympathy from me, they should blow themselves up. Could anyone imagine if the next bomber would go to their own mosque and blow it up. Of course, shortly afterwards what if a video showed a nice and calm bomber stating that because of his "prison" conditions he could no longer see any way out other than to take his life and his loved ones with him.

Since 1948, Arabs hate Jews, and since 1967 Palestinians chidren are educated (in their schoolbooks) to the same. Are you blind?

When you scrape off all of the whining, all Palestinian strategies are rooted in the idea that Arabs have numerical superiority, which must eventually result in a Jewish defeat. "Peace" doesn't enter into their calculations.

"I`m sure they`d rather have Arafat than Hamas." You're wrong, buddy. I'm sure most hawkish Israeli strategists are rubbing their hands with pleasure at the Palestinians' umpteenth decision to shoot themselves in the foot because they thought it was a Jew. Arafat was sneaky and evasive, he successfully fooled the international community and many people in Israel into believing that he wanted peace. The scam netted concessions, donations, and an ability to engage in terrorism without consequences. Hamas doesn't try to hide their agenda and conceal their tactics. They are simply like the PLO before it got smart in 1988. As a consequence they are easier to deal with for Israel and have no legitimacy in the civilized world. Thus, if Hamas is elected as a part of PA: - The US is cutting aid. - The EU is cutting aid. - Israel stops negotiations. - Israel gets the legitimacy it needs to up the heat and wage an intensified war with disastrous consequences for the Palestinians. They consider themselves the saddest victims in the world now? Just wait till Hamas is in control. You can gloat and immaturely claim we are 'from dumbland' all you want, but, like the emperor with no clothes, you will soon realize that you've been had.

They can go seek restitution from them. It is not the Palestinians fault those Jews were allegeldy kicked out of Arab countries. They sure didn't mind living there when Europe persecuted them. Just like it was not the Palestinians fault Europe persecuted them neither. We're faulted for not wanting to be the sacrificial lambs of European and Zionist imperialism. How unfair.

The difference is that our churches still stood under Muslim rule in Palestine. Our freedom to practice our religion was respected. Our freedom of movement was an inalienable right under the so called Islamic rule. It's obviously not the same under this repulsive Zionist regime. I have never encountered problems with Muslim Palestinians. It is the Jewish Polanders or Jewish Germans who came here and stole my home because I'm a gentile. I am born a Palestinian, and I shall die one, and that's the most important thing to me. Religion is not as holy to me as is Palestine.

This is the third post to you.I have no idea why HAARETZ is not letting you read my posts. To begin with -there are 2.4 million PA ARABS in the PA.A serious research was done and found out that the PA is blowing up the numbers for many reasons. To scare Israel that so many of you will multiply to be even more of you. To get more money from the UN ,the EU and the other idiots who send you money to build your entity but you use it to finance terror. You will never have a state because you do not want one.You know what you should do in order to get a state.You are not doing it. You must stop the habit of blaming others for your sitting in the mud.You sit where you put yourself ,no one else did it. The world is tired of you and no longer buys your lies.

Gabe1 and Khoury -- you two really deserve each other. Boy, talk about the pot calling the kettle black... Agreed, Gabe1 is an ignorant racist, but your swill of history regarding the Jews... c'mon, you want to go back to the golden calf? If you're going there, well, we are the chosen people. Or no -- you prefer to quote the Koran to get an even handed picture... well Khoury, it may not take a racist to spot one, but in this case you've done a fine job. And by the way many of the Jews from Arab countries you menioned, while true they made out much better than the European ones, we're kicked out of their Arab lands.

turn off the caps lock, dude. And use paragraphs. Now I would like to know why Haaretz allows this unreadable gibberish but has censored many of my polite and informative talkbacks?

The PA ARABS have no moral cause.They were offered a state a hundred times and answered with suicide bombing. They deserve nothing .Whatever Israel gave them she gave out of the goodness of her heart and out of hope for peace not because ERETZ ISRAEL in not the land of the Jews.ALL OF IT. Your advice is sad and pathetic.You encourage violence instead of peace and quiet. No one should listen to you.NO ONE.

HELLO KIMMIE Thank you and CAHG SAMEACH to you too! Lets hope they will leave us alone to celebrate in peace but ,as we know ,they just love to hurt us during our holidays. Good to run into you ,dear.

THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENTS HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR A WAY TO ANNEX THE TERRITORIES WITHOUT MAKING THE NON JEWS CITIZENS OF ISRAEL. UNFORTUNATLY THEY DID NOT HAVE ACCESS TO THE RIGHT BRAINS AND ALSO "REAL JEWS" THAT UNDERSTAND WHAT IS RIGHTFULLY THEIRS HOW TO ACHEIVE THIS DREAM. ENTER GABE WITH THIS SCHEME TO EXCHANGE POPULATIONS. I HOPE THIS CAN BE DONE WITHOUT FORCE BECAUSE IT WILL BE HARD TO IDENTIFY NON JEWS, MOST OF THEM ARE CIRCUMCISED. SERIOUSLY GABE, BIBI AND UZI NEED PEOPLE LIKE YOU. AN ELECTION IS COMING UP AND IF LIKUD CAN MAKE IT PLATFORM PROMISING THE REMOVAL OF ALL NON JEWS FROM THE HOLY LAND, AND THAT THERE WILL BE READY HOUSING FOR ANOTHER 200,000 JEWS IN EAST JERUSALEM UNITED FOREVER THEY WILL WIN THE ELECTION. YOU COULD BE FOREIGN MINISTER OR DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER. GABE YOU CAN SAY WHATEVER YOU WANT ABOUT ARABS BUT I ASK YOU NOT TO MAKE HATEFUL COMMENTS ABOUT JEWS, IN FACT MOST JEWS. ANY JEWS THAT ABHOR RACISM, ARE LIBERAL, FIGHT FOR HUMAN RIGHTS, BELEIVE IN DEMOCRACY, WANT A JUST PEACE THAT EVERYONE CAN LIVE WITH ARE SELF HATING JEWS ACCORDING TO YOU. YOUR DEFINITION WHICH IS FINE . YOU HAVE JUST CLASSIFIED THE LARGE MAJORITY OF JEWS AS SELF HATING JEWS. THE JEWS THAT REACH THE HIGHEST POSITIONS SUCH AS THE WORLD COURT, THE SUPREME COURT OF THE USA, THE WORLD BANK ETC.ETC. ARE JUST SELF HATING JEWS. WITH YOUR COURAGE COULD YOU EXPLAIN TO EVERYONE ONE MORE TIME YOUR THREAT TO ANNEX JORDON IF THEY DO NOT ACCEPT THE NON JEWS, READ ARABS, THAT NOW LIVE IN THE WEST BANK AND JERUSALEM. IS THERE A MILITARY SCHEME TO LINK UP WITH THE US FORCES IN IRAQ? IMAGINE, THE US NOW GRATEFUL TO THE JEWS, COMRADES IN ARMS AND NOW THE US WILL NEED TO AS.. LI..K THE JEWS. WHO KNOWS OUR HERO GABE MAY BE THE NEW KING OF THE JEWS.

Hello ex halabi Truth will out.It needs to be said in all aspect of how it all came about. They seem to forget the Roman occupation and the fact that not all Jews left the Holy Land and stayed behind and it is why there Jews even then which is nigh over 2000 years ago. Some people want to oblitarate this historical fact to suit their purpose. But it will not be acceptable EVER! I read you well balanced posts always and think what you must have gone through during those dark days.Cheer up my friend,truth will told no matter how.In the end it is they who lose out.But in the end no matter what they say they cannot change history to suit them. Cheer up all's well that ends well. Regards S

You are right that Israel has a monitoring station on the Gaza-Egypt border but even someone with your interesting use of logic ought to be able to differentiate between monitoring and controlling. For example, I might set up a monitoring post keeping constant watch over my neighbour's house, however, I wouldn't control who went in and out of the front door! This is analogous with the Rafah border agreement. As for your comment about Electricity; I ask you under what moral principle is Israel obliged to provide electricity to the population of the Gaza strip? Particularly if this area is hostile territory. Why should Israel provide electrcity? So that Palestinian bomb factories can run production uninhibited? Perhaps you consider your words to represent some profound or insightful contribution to the debate, however, your previous comment about dishonourable Jews really sums up every one of your posts to date- you appear to be an unreconstructed anti-semite.

Hello Alan Re: Arafat and homosexuality.I am not often wrong,and I am almost certain that the majority of them have a proclivity toward that abominable act.They may indulge in it,but they do it very discreetly and surrepticiously too.So,no surprise there,the hypocrites! Oh well who cares.Let them be what they want I don't care. Alan Hagsameah,have a happy Chanukha S

Flower hello You are in a way correct(grin or tongue in cheek). The soonest this mess is sorted out to the advantage of Israel the better.For our innocents who have to endure the prospect of being blown off to smitherins. We'll have to wait for the government to begin and act real tough and blow the consequences.I mean,who cares for the children and their parents,brothers and sisters who get killed by these vile people. The PALS propaganda machine goes on and on.I say,enough is enough! No more consessions,no more softly sofly approach.It needs one good hard blow and let them see if they can still manufacture their weapons to use against the Israelis. Thank you for your post.We need a lot of encouragement. Regards S

Thanks Gabe! And Hanukkah Sameah to you and yours as well! I've always loved the inherent meaning of this Jewish holiday.

It is late, so I will only dismantle one falsity among the many in your post. One should be enough to acst doubt on the rest of your false assertions. You state:"Shoot, if you READ Islamic history, they also joined the pagan tribes after signing the Medina compact with Muhammad (I.E. they backstabbed him), and they sought to destroy the Islamic prophet Muhammad and his ministry to bring the Arabs back into believing into a one powerful God. Well of course they were driven out of Medina". Your sources for that propoganda piece? Here the Doyen of Islamic History tells it how it REALLY was. Bernard Lewis writes: The city of Medina, some 280 miles north of Mecca, had originally been settled by Jewish tribes from the north, especially the Banu Nadir and Banu Quraiza. The comparative richness of the town attracted an infiltration of pagan Arabs who came at first as clients of the Jews and ultimately succeeded in dominating them. Medina, or, as it was known before Islam, Yathrib, had no form of stable government at all. The town was tom by the feuds of the rival Arab tribes of Aus and Khazraj, with the Jews maintaining an uneasy balance of power. The latter, engaged mainly in agriculture and handicrafts, were economically and culturally superior to the Arabs, and were consequently disliked.... as soon as the Arabs had attained unity through the agency of Muhammad they attacked and ultimately eliminated the Jews. "Arabs in history" Now your version sounds like the same excuses used by Fascists the world over to justify slaughter of Jews throughout history. Was mohammed a fascist prototype? Hmmm.

Hamas' victory is the best thing that ever happened to us. We were finished and they've resurected us.

Even if you don't like Kuwait and the Kuwaitis because they are very, very rich that doesn't give you or anybody else the right to invade Kuwait, kill Kuwaitis and steal their belongings. If you hate the Kuwaitis, then YOU are a racist. Jesus was the King of the Jews according to the Romans. The Romans invaded the Land of Israel and not the other way around. The Romans changed the names of Judea and Samaria to Palestine in order to uproot the Jews but they failed miserably.

Every time Amira writes an article, she mentions the checkpoints. Every time she mentions the checkpoints, I feel like reminding her that the Palestinians launched an intifada.

I'm thinking of making a new movie about the Israeli Palestinian conflict and I think you could play a significant role in my production. Our casting producers will contact you shortly. Sincerely yours, MEL BROOKS.

dont forget....arafat was a homosexual. Isnt it interesting how taboo homosexuality is in muslim culture, yet many still love the guy....go figure !

The Israeli's could have opened the free passage from the West Bank to Gaza, they could have given all Palestinians free tickets to boot, and even free cable while they were at it, and it wouldn't have made much difference. Hamas' ascendency is about the corruption and internal incompetence of the PNA, and has very little to do with what Israel did or didn't do.

you really should not deny the jews' right to their land. Every good christian knows this ! If the muslims knew it, they would not have tried to slaughter the jews in 5 wars and thousands of fedayeeen raids. Defeat is a bitter pill to swallow !

Did you ever have a relative that studied in Cincinnati, Ohio?

Elias How dare you reprimand our dear Gabe. You are the lier and not him.What an imbecil you sound.With your false histories and like you uourself full of (B.S) if you don't mind my saying so. You are distorting the whole historical fact. Make up your mind,are you a christian as you profess to be or are you really an aplogist for Islam. Which is it,make up your mind! If it is the latter,you have no idea how stupid you sound with your assertions concerning the Jews at the time of that dreadful man called Muhamed.His was a false religion and he based it on OUR HOLY BIBLE.He merely plagiarazed it and pursued to do even worse.The reason that islam spread was precisely because it was always done by terror.And let's put something straight here,the various Caliphates were not of Middle East origine.When by terror and murders it spread it was through force and fear of persecution to convert people by this means. And let us leave Jesus out of this if you don't mind. Jesus was a Jew first and foremost,and let me remind you in case it slipped your mind,read the New Testament properly. You will find that Jesus abhored the gentiles.If you remember the Syrian woman who came to him for help? and what he said to her? No,you just like to read and preach what appeals to you for your propaganda and leave the rest out of the equation. He tried the Jews to follow him,of course they wouldn't because it was totally agains their beliefs.When they rejected his teachings and to join him WHAT DID HE DO? He went on a rampage of killing and murdering appropriating their valuables,treating them so badly that in the end they fled while they could. This is the teaching of wonderful peaceful Islam,which continues today without any let up. The majority of todays muslims have the same mindset,they cannot help it.It is ingrained in their psychye,in their mentality.On the other hand they are in the main a load of hypocrites.They are not supposed to drink and THEY DO.They are not supposed to gamble and THEY DO.They are not supposed to fornicate and THEY DO.Wrong their wives and THEY DO. There are some moderate muslims,but poor things dare not raise their voice frightened of the wrath it would cause them--like the stupid "Fatwas".I ask you,is this the modern mind set-up as it should be? I have said again and again. These Arabs/Muslims must come forward to the 21st century and leave behind the 7th.Instead of moving forward they are going backwards.No wonder they are in such trouble,so backward in every respect inspite of their wealth they have nothing to show the world NOTHING! Sorry for the long monologue.Think again and who knows... S

Isn't ypur name a Lebanese derivative? Why not gp back there. I am not in a teaching mood so you will have to reread your history again. Jews always live in Plestine. The Egyptians, Syrians, Iraqis and Lebanese are squatters. MOVE.

I enjoy your posts.To the point Yes Hannukah is what it says and Sameach means Happy. Happy holidays to you and yours.

Well Israel has to have some control over what goes into Gaza, otherwise Gaza would be the biggest terrorist base on the face of the planet. Infact its half way to becoming that now.

I agree with Simon David that Amira Hass is a great patriot and loves her country. I disagree with him about Amira Hass' country. She lives in Ramallah, loves it there, identifies with it, and wastes no opportunity to defame Israel. Of course Israel is not her country!

Fateh, is a secular Palestinian nationalist organization that at first was committed to establishing Palestine on the borders of the British Mandate Palestine. This was of course at the expense of Israel, which was the counter to Israel since their creation was at the expense of native indegenious Palestinians. Fateh, changed their charter which still called for Palestine from the River to the Sea but equal rights for all peoples. Fateh and the PLO in 1988 recognized Israel. Hamas still does not recognize Israel. The irony is that Israel created Hamas as a challenge to the popularity of the exiled PLO. Shame shame shame! There is a God! There is a God! How hilarious, Israel is begging for Arafat to awake from his grave. I'm sure they'd rather have Arafat than Hamas. ISRAEL IS Paying the price for its failed attempt to divide and conquer the Palestinian society. That's ok, keep disarming the Palestinian police. Keep destroying their infrastructure. This leaves Hamas as the only option for the Palestinians. Israel can't blame no one but itself for it allowed Hamas's creation.

Perhaps it is time for the Palestinians to try mass peaceful protests. Go out into the streets with their arms .. etc etc ... .. the propoganda is worth so much more than the people themselves .. sorry .. but what you wrote makes me feel sick .. your mind is warped .. Finally the world will see what you see .. Yes if you YET AGAIN create a propoganda trap for us to fall into .. JUST LIKE JENIN .. Thank you for pointing out how the "Palestinian" mind works .. you can only convince the world with lies, traps and propoganda .. BECAUSE THE TRUTH WILL NEVER PROVE YOU RIGHT (Just so you can learn .. Peaceful demonstrations do not have guns there .. when guns are present .. they are not peaceful. its called INCITEMENT .. Umm THREATENING .. DANGEROUS .. But mostly .. VERY STUPID

GABE1, how about a more pragmatic solution. Why not send most of these Russian, Polish, and British Jews back to their countries of origin. The newly arrived Brooklyn Jews who believe they also have a birthright in my ancestral homeland are free to leave as well. I have documents of numerous generations of my family even prior to the 20th century that lived in this land. How many israelis do? Wait, that starts in 1948 for you. EX HALABI, I could care less about sand eating Kuwaitis. They don't like us. Palestinians were used by Kuwaitis because like they do in most of their countries that they reside, they usually score way higher and perform much better than the average Kuwaiti of Kuwait, or average Emiraty of the UAE, etc. Just look at who leads the Jordanian academics. Surely ain't the Jordanians, it's the Palestinians. Sure, the Kuwaitis hate us because of Arafat. Was Arafat even legal to represent all Palestinians in diaspora? OF COURSE NOT, but Kuwaitis wiht their primitive mindset decided to massacre or rid the country of Palestinians. Oh well. However, I find it funny a supporter of Israel would make comedy about Palestinians being driven out of host countries, i.e. Lebanon, Jordan, Kuwait. AFTER all, this is just more proof in the pudding that the Palestinians are the New Jews of today. I mean, how many times did Jews rebel and deceive host countries they resided in throughout history? Let's see, the Roman Empire on 2 occasions. The pharoah of Egypt. They turned on Moses and followed a golden calf instead of the Lord almighty. They turned on Christ who sought to bring many of them back to God instead of corruption. Shoot, if you READ Islamic history, they also joined the pagan tribes after signing the Medina compact with Muhammad (I.E. they backstabbed him), and they sought to destroy the Islamic prophet Muhammad and his ministry to bring the Arabs back into believing into a one powerful God. Well of course they were driven out of Medina. Remember, the Jews used to get Arab pagans to fight each other in the Hijaz because they wanted to control the Arab pagans in case the Christians from Abyssinia, or Byzantine INVADED. What about backstabbing the Brits who destroyed the Arab Palestinian revolt of 1936-39 for the Zionists who used to hide behind the Brits for protection prior to the revolt. Hmm, how about the Zionist deception against the Palestinians. While your brethren was being persecuted in Europe, you had no problem living in North African Arab countries, Yemen, and Palestine. You Jews ARE ONES TO TALK! Much of your history has been about deception.

Think about it, Liz. Does israel control or not control the Gaza Strip from outside? It keeps a tight patrol of the coast. It has a fence around it on land. It has numerous military posts watching it. Its air force flies over it regularly. YOU MEAN LIKE EVERY OTHER BORDER IN THE WORLD .. TRY GOING TO AUSTRIA FROM GERMANY SWEETIE .. TAKE A PHOTO AND YOU WILL GET A WARNING SHOT .. The arguments people come up with .. AMAZING .. Next England occupies N Ireland because it has the sea and doesnt connect the countries via a bridge ..

Offtopic, but I was wondering if "Hanukkah Sameah" is "Happy Hanukkah" in Hebrew?

Keep thinking that baby .. I know what I am .. I know my strengths and weaknesses .. and I know that I am not right, but so far from wrong As for your "underdogs" .. you are totally correct .. all the weaknesses and none of the strengths .. the world has pity for underdogs it is true .. they have more patience and support .. but in the end .. the underdogs loose, no one really cares and they are the ones that suffer .. THEY ARE NOT MY SLAVES .. they do nothing for me .. so they can not be slaves .. brainwashing is a dangerous thing .. When will you lot get it .. THEY ARE NOT SO IMPORTANT TO MY LIFE .. I just want them to LEAVE ME ALONE .. They want me in the sea .. not the other way around .. With respect .. I find my patience with them outstanding .. I guess I pity them as much as evreyone else does .. I personally think pity is the worst emotion for someone to have for someone else .. It cripples them .. but again .. you do not care about them really .. you just think your a doing a good thing for your soul .. I think maybe you should take a step back and take a real good look at your motivations and your logic.

?Fatah officials were saying this week that in the general election set for the end of January, political considerations and support for a realistic two-state solution will increase among the public. Perhaps.? So Fatah admit the two-state solution is not very popular among the ?Pals?

I do agree that it is an extremely disenheartening situation and that the mojority of plaestinians want to live in peace. But please realize that the majority of Israelis also want to live in peace. There was support for Oslo, but Oslo lies in the rubble of the Dolfinarium, of Cafe Hillel, of Apple Pizza, of Bus #4, #19, etc...Our politicians on both sides, our religious factions on both sides, our extremists on both sides need to start thinking of the everyman and the children before lining their pockets and perpetuating more violence. Please remember that peace is a two way street, though. Terrorism must stop, just as dehumanization at checkpoints and illegal settlement must stop. Nonetheless, no checkpoints would be necessary if there was no terrorism. Chicken and the egg. Lets just pray that this coming year is one of mutual understanding and bridging gaps.

Is there anyone more violent and intellectually dishonest than someone who points out they are "Christian"? As a practicing one, my skin just crawls when someone posts racist trash with the almost obligatory reference that they are a "Christian." Please post your garbage, but don't try to connect it to Jesus.

?The Fatah movement and the Palestinian Authority had promised the Palestinian people precious goods over the last 12 years: an independent state on all of the West Bank and Gaza Strip? And why didn?t Arafat (may he rot in hell) accept it in Camp David? And still so the ?Pals? consider him to be a hero and love him.

I hope that we have zero intention of strengthening anyone .. It is not my business to tell them who to vote for .. I really dont care .. and I prefer not to havbe another reason for them to blame me for their stupidity. 1. The Palestininas never trusted me .. like you, they do not know me. Furthermore, you can not expect a people to trust someone that they have been implanted from birth with the idea we have horns and are the devil. 2. There is no "myth" about the Palestinians not being partners for peace .. Back to point one .. I do not expect them to be, and I do not blame them .. but TODAY .. they have access to the truth and to a better life .. I do not want them to WANT peace .. I just want them to accept that peace is a means to a better life 3. A fair deal to me is put all the "argumentative ones" in a small space and let them kill each other and the rest of us just get on with our lives .. I will not get anywhere close to a fair deal either .. but then fair is a matter of interpretation ..

The article puts the blame for the failure of the Oslo Accords on Israel ignoring that the ?Pals? didn?t meet their compromises. They didn?t recognize Israel and stop terrorism. Does the author mean Israel is to blame because the checkpoints, outposts, etc. are the causes of terrorism?

Hamas, Fatah, the differences are style not substance from a view of what they want to accomplish concerning the Jewish State. Maybe their are differences to Arabs and their sympathizers. They both in the end want to drive the Israelis, Jews and non-Islamic people elsewhere (out of all of Israel). Whoever does not see this is either ignorant or naaive or both.

There are a number of issues I disagree with you but I respect you for your moderate approach. Anyway I think the problem is a result of the failure in 1967 to solve the problem with the territories then. Now many Israelis have been born into the existing situation and this is not their fault. They would like to solve the problem, but how? The big problem is that there is a mixed population in the West Bank with some large mostly Jewish towns like Ariel and Maaleh Adumim and I do not see how it is possible to end the occupation if it means to force hundreds of thousands of Jews there to leave. No government would be able to do this.

Jag Januca Sameaj !!

I will understand whatever you would like me to understand, but understand THE CONSEQUENCES OF YOUR ACTIONS .. I may be the reason you are occupied, but you are the reason you suffer .. Hamas will only bring you more bloodshed (Not that I would like any of your choices) .. but if your choice is HAMAS .. then fine .. we will respond accordingly .. at least our occupation brought you the right to vote .. few of your arab brothers have that right .. Freedom is not an end to the occupation .. but the end of the occupation is an end to you being my problem .. Good Luck and see ya x

"how is it that you say arabs are raised to hate jews.do you say jews are raised to love arabs." I would say that Jews in Israel are definitely raised by media outlets like Haaretz to love arabs and make concessions for peace and drag jews out of their homes for peace and give away their greenhouses to the arabs for peace and so the arabs and the europeans and the canadians will love them. what are the arabs doing for peace? NOTHING.

gabe 1, i agree with you, haaretz censors 90% of my posts, they like khalid and his ilk only. they even censored totally academic posts about arabic inferiority complex toward westerners and especially jews.

GABE What is wrong with people who believed ARAFAT when he said he wants to make peace with Israel,but do not believe HAMAS who say they want all the Jews DEAD? HAMAS PROVES ON A DAILY BASIS WHAT it SAYS ! And now we find out that MOFAZ lied about a supposed agreement regarding the border with Egypt...No agreement ,only lies. Is there anyone who cares about the country? Are all the leaders crazy? Chag Sameach ,friend. At least you and I are on the same wavelength. FLOWER

And Hi to you too. You cannot slander a slandered or a Drek a like Abu Abu fira al drek. Hanukkah Sameah to you too.

how is it that you say arabs are raised to hate jews.do you say jews are raised to love arabs.i dont see to much love from the earlies writings about jews loving arabs,some some not,just like the arabs there are good and bad,or are jews better then the others.actions speak louder then propoganda.

there are no more stupid palestinians that believe you dont want complete control over them.or that you will leave them an unbroken state,so the war goes on.

I have nothing to whine about. :)

Take note of what I am writing. It doesn't matter what "accords" were signed. It doesn't matter who signed them. The fact is the piece of paper is as good as the person that signed it. Yasser Arafat liquidated the Palestinian coffers for two reasons: 1. To plump up his bank account for his wife and child and himself. 2. To force the Palestinians to continue to hate Israel and see no progress toward their betterment and blame Israel in the process. Naturally any person that sees a dim or no light at the end of the tunnel will turn to extreme measures. The few that take the matters into their own hands and launch suicide attacks and missiles are taking action that they think will cause change. Anyone that has half a brain in their head should surely know that continued attacks on both sides just causes the tit for tat to go on and on and on. Who started it first??? You said, he said, she said. Mohammed Abbas does not have the control over anyone except in a figurative way. He requires propping up by Israel and the United States and other countries. The reason: It is better to deal with the enemy you know than the enemy you cannot predict. Hamas may have loyalty amongst the average Palestinian, why not??? Fatah, Arafat and the cronies have worn out their welcome and their chances. Will Hamas take a political position and try to "negotiate"?? OR Will Hamas take its known position of wanting the destruction of Israel. Lets take a look at a simple process. If Hamas only wants the lands Israel "occupied" in 1967, then why can they not make a unilateral declaration of that fact??? Can they not make an amendment to their "charter" that they no longer want to destroy Israel?? Surely every country in the world that "involves" itself in Mideast Politics would take this as a forward step. They would surely try to insist that Israel negotiate with Hamas directly. Israel would have little choice but to deal with Hamas. HOwever, if Hamas chose to continue its dealings through terrorism then the entire Palestinian people would be held to task as they elected Hamas. It is easy to state and make suggestions, however it is obvious that what has gone on for the last 12 years has made no difference.

We all respond to reports on the conflict according to our own background of hopes and expectations, which by others is called a bias. Love her or hate her, a new article by Amira produces a cascade of responses and this is due in very large part to the forceful intelligence and lucid clarity of her writing. No one else reporting on the subject possesses the breadth of knowledge, the superb craft of English and the Olympian perspective that characterize her writings. Once again, thank you Amira!

"They should declare unequivacably their goal is to free the Palestinians from Israeli occupation, not to destroy the Jewish State." They have already declared unequivocally their goal is to destroy the entire state of Israel and establish the Islamic Palestine upon what is now Israel. No distinction to Hamas between Elon Moreh and Herzliya, they have already declared their intentions, so stop your babbling.

You have the gall to call me that H word after your relatives consorted with him. Ya Abou Khalb. And may your Camel spring a leak while you are at it.

And where did Y O U come from? Europe? USA? Your post is disgusting both in its content and choice of language You call a human being drek??? Maybe you have not yet understood that in our religion a slanderer is like a murderer and will have no part in the world to come. People like you are tainting our people.

Gina thinks Israel is trying to end terrorism...? How naive.... Israel is more interested in control and additional real estate. That is why they have a terror problem to begin with. Face it, Israel practises state terror on a grand scale. The occupation is a facist in nature. Israel should do as they did in Gaza and pull out of the West Bank. In time, this will happen. The sooner the better as you won't have to waste your time whining about terrorists.

Hamas should limit their activity to the Israeli occupation forces in the West Bank. Settlers, particularly the insidious armed settlers that terrorize Palestinian civillians are fare game. They should declare unequivacably their goal is to free the Palestinians from Israeli occupation, not to destroy the Jewish State. This means a two state solution based on the 1967 boarders. As for a strict Islamic State of Palestine, that is up to the Palestinians, not any one political party. Hamas can take the moral high ground and bring clarity to the Palestinian Cause by ending attacks within the green line and limit their militant operations to the low life settlers and IDF puke who protect them.

...how Israeli draconian security measures are considered a valid means to build peace through comprimise with the Palestinians. You simply can't cure feelings of insecurity by trampling on 3 million people.

When the Dolfinarium was struck by a suicide terrorist, Amira Haas appeared on Israel TV wearing a kaffiye - and blaming Israel's occupation for these incidents. She is has every right to be an extremist- but shame on HAARETZ ( especially its publisher, Mr. Schoken) for giving this self hating Jew the legitimacy and publicity to besmirch Israel throughout the world.

Hanukah Sameach to you and yours. You are right in what you say about Hamas. The problem is that they are universally believed except that some pseudo Jews, deluded Jews, Humanist Jews and the like want to make them into a organization that is either not representative of the ?Pal? population or on the verge of becoming a peace partner. Neither of these is even close to the truth. The fact is that they are terrorists and murderers supported by the population that want to kill, drawn, throw out all of the Jews in Israel and the sooner that ALL jews realize that and act accordingly the sooner a solution can be found to protect the Israelis.

As an Yemenite Israeli I think it is extremely important for Israelis to take a look from the Palestinian perspective for just a second. JEWS can most certainly be corrupt. We need to take a good look at what we ask of the Palestinians. We want a partner in peace yet we decide to build a JUST wall in an unjust manner. Is it really that important to cut off privately owned Palestinian lands??? What does Israel gain from this? Hatred!!! Terrorist groups like Hamas and Al-Qaieda are great at exploiting the weakness of the powerful, especially the US. Stop giving them excusses to kill more Israelis. Now, lets not have any dillusions about this... A large majority of the Arab world hates Jews and hates Israel. The terrorist organizations created within Palestine and neighboring Arab countries are for the sole purpose of spreading the Muslim faith to all, by any means necessary. My grandparents came to Israel because in Yemen, it was either become a Muslim, or die. These Muslim extremist groups are carrying out an inquisition of their own. Most of the neighboring Arab nations are contributing any and all resources at their disposal to the Hamas cause... Kill All Jews! Wipe Israel off the Map!...not to Peace. King Abdullah of Jordan is one exception and he is a good role model for other Muslim leaders. He protects the people of his nation and faith (between 60 and 90 percent Palestinian) and chooses to fight for the freedom of the Muslim faith from this virus-like disease called Wahabiism.

The Oslo accords are dead, and even your deepest desire to bring them to life will not suffice. Your friends at the Hamas inc. killed it a long time ago, when they started blowing up our babies in the street, remember? the more we gave, the more of our body parts we collected, REMEMBER?

I will say this about HAMAS- THEY DO NOT LIE.Hamas says that it is dedicated to the destruction of Israel.NO LYING. The little lies do not matter.They do not pretend to want to make peace with Israel.Only idiots think otherwise. We should believe them and do all we can to eliminate them.They are a threat to Israel that needs to be removed.

Simon You cannot be serious! Amira is a patriotic Israeli and loves her country? Having read her various articles it is very difficult to believe what you have said and seriously? Sorry,it won't wash If she chose to live among our enemies then she has no credibility as far as I am concerned. I had heard that she resides in Ramallah,for the life of me I do not understand it-unless... If you know what I mean! No more conjecturing. NUFF SAID. S

of the upcoming Palestinian elections. This week's Economist magazine's story: Wobbles all round Dec 20th 2005 | NABLUS AND JERUSALEM From The Economist print edition A split in the Palestinians' ruling party and a threat to the health of Israel's embattled prime minister could shake up Middle East politics all over again JUST a month after the prime minister, Ariel Sharon, overturned Israeli politics by quitting the ruling Likud to form his own party, Kadima (?Forward?), a similar upheaval has hit the Palestinian Authority (PA). And to confuse matters still more, Kadima's own chances of keeping Mr Sharon in power after the election due in March took a knock after he suffered a stroke, albeit a minor one, on December 18th; his new party, after all, depends massively on the charisma of its 77-year-old leader. Among Palestinians the uncertainty is just as great. After lengthy feuding over whom the PA's ruling Fatah party would field in the election for Palestine's parliament on January 25th, a crowd of ambitious politicians decided that the machinations of a few old stalwarts to lead the party list had gone too far. Primaries meant to resolve things fairly had collapsed in shooting and chaos. Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen), the Palestinian president, was said to be drawing up a list that would put unpopular old-timers above genuine vote-winners. So, at literally the eleventh hour on December 14th, with registration due to close at midnight, the Fatah ?young guard? announced its own party list, calling it Al-Mustaqbal: ?the Future?... Here's the link for the full article: http://www.economist.com/world/africa/displaystory.cfm?story_id=5327826&no_jw_tran=1&no_na_tran=1

Simon You can't be serious! Amira is a patriotic Israeli and loves her country? I need some assurance to what you have told Jane my friend.

Johanes I didn't have to read your whole post to get the gist of it. But,let me remind you of a relevant point concerning why Abbas resigned.It was because of his rift with his co-partner's intransigence Arafat(may he rot in hell). Arafat wanted to rule according to his will and Abbas just gave up! I thought I'd remind you of this small fact in case it slipped your biased mind. S

John Of course the Israelis have to control,you don't for a moment think it gives them pleasure to do so do you?They have to check what goes into the country,and you must be aware that it has already been substantiated since the border was opened there has been a great amount of illigal weaponries entering through this spots. They try to get them into the Israel for the sole purpose to infiltrate terrorists as well. What would you do,let them come in without check-points and murder our innocent civilians at will? Please don't make such inane comments in future! S S

gabe 1, roman is not jewish, maxsimum half jewish. no respected jewish parents in russia will give such name. frome his half jewishness is coming his self hatred. it is normal and tipical for not ajusted russian halfs. in any country.

the only time that the Palestinians are not "helpless victims living under a brutal occ-yoo-pay-shun" is when they are blowing up Jews in shopping malls or dancing around a car swarm.

no, he means saudi arabia, she can not enter yet but she is going to convert -lehitaslem shortly.

I agree with # 67 and 68 as the Palestinians must take responsibility for their own destiny. Their savage behaviour is so beyond acceptable, a full generation must pass before any real progress can be made. That will not happen as Hamas will most certainly take over for Abbas in 2006. So sad, but a reality that we all must live with and accept. Israel must finish construction of the security wall, improve relations with other Arab neighbors and increase education and business and commerce...maybe that will be enough of a role model for thisw primitive society that is now known as the PA.

FinaceDoc My idea is very good for Amira.We'll get her a good job in AL-JAZEERA.Ha'aretz seems too tame for her.So,let us help her get the position and live happily ever after.They will welcome her with open arms and it will be up her street doesn't everyone agree,eh? I know I feel like giving her a shove! S

in this way russia is controlled baltic states, or germany controls danemark. be responsable for once.

"That suicide bombers are considered by many posters here as a valid form of "resistance"" And then those Palestinians blame the "US Zionist Lobby" for the fact that the majority of US citizens support Israel's right to defend itself, instead of looking internally and realizing its the Palestinians' chosen value system which has shattered most US support for the Palestinian people. I've yet to see one Palestinian post denouncing their terrorist groups.

"The US and EU will end all aid to the PA when that occurs and since the Arab nations do not care about fellow Arabs, guess what? No more aid coming in, darn they may not be able to afford more weapons." This is Amira's primary fear. She knows that as soon as Israel has finished its unilateral disengagement from the Palestinians and their honored terrorists, and as soon as the Security Fence is completed, life will go on.... Israelis will continue to flourish.... and the Palestinians, still blaming Israel (now looking even more silly doing so), will reap the stagnation and the savagery from their armed thugs and terrorists which they have cheered and supported. At some point the Palestinians must repudiate terrorism to save their souls and to save their children. I doubt this will occur with the current generation.

I must admit that I haven't read the article (usually just the mention of the name Amira Hass is enough to begin the regurgitation of my breakfast, luckily today I was too busy to eat)Just judging by the title though I must charge the authoress w/ dereliction of duty in regard to investigative journalism. Even the most casual of observers of this terrorist group cum political party would be able to come up w/ more than 3 lies ??? maybe the next articlwe could be titled "on the 3 reasons Amira Hass panders to the extreme left and the terrorists" ( even though there are probably more than 3 reasons for this sad truth too)

"israel will - does - bomb Gaza, and send its troops in, whenever it feels like it. This is called `control`." Any guesses as to why this would happen? Ask the Palestinians terrorist trash to launch a few quassams towards Los Angeles. How do you believe the US would respond?

Mr Abu Firas the secular, please answer this question: if Pals see Israelis in a very bad light how do you think that Kuwaitis see the Pals? Do they see them as "cruel, aggressive, heartless and have no grain of humanity" ? "What did the Kuwaitis get in return for being nice to the Pals"? I am waiting for your answer.

Amira Hass Amira a catchy title is it not eh? You certainly know the tricks of your trade! Oh well it was expected,we know where your loyalties lie. No point in further discussions and a long response at least from me,not a chance you are not worthy at all. Remember though,YOU FOOL US ONCE,SHAME ON YOU, YOU DO IT TWICE AND YOU KNOW WHAT! On another occasion I suggested,PLEASE,PLEASE CONVERT AND BE DONE WITH IT ONCE AND FOR ALL. S

"israel has a monitoring station in which it can keep an eye on the border crossing between Gaza and Egypt. " To keep Israel apprised of the murderers and terrorists that seek to enter the Palestinian communities.

"I see one of the four Haaretz articles currently seeking our comments is "idf may cut off electricity to Gazans"." "You see what I mean when I say that israel controls Gaza from outside??? How can it be more obvious????" OR -- the Palestinians could grow up, act civilized, and begin to arrest and imprison the terrorists in their midst. Jordan does this. Saudia Arabis does this. There are consequences to embracing terrorism. Don't expect rewards.

"Perhaps it is time for the Palestinians to try mass peaceful protests." The Palestinians would regain sympathy in the US -- all of which was utterly lost -- after the Palestinians gleefully supported those heinous individuals who bombed restaurants and malls.

"It has a fence around it on land." Which has saved lives. I don't think any suicide bombers have penetrated from Gaza.

You may be a prince but you don't represent any royal family except your very own. The State of Israel represents only Israelis whether they be Jew, Arab, Christian, Buddhist or Agnostic, only they must have Israeli citizenship. Jews live in almost every country of the globe and they usually have the citizenship of the respective country they live in. Most people learn this in high school and it's not difficult to grasp.

roman, you're living in lalaland. Israelis visiting West Bank are putting themselves in a harm's way. One of my uncles' friends went over to meet his Palestinian Arab business partners when he was caught by terrorists and executed in front of his friends/business partners. Guess you've been brainwashed by the ISM nutties.

If you've been checking the news, Israel complained that there's no monitoring done at all and that a bunch of hamas-terrorists freely got into Gaza.

Bravo The Doc! Such a profound understanding of what going on gives a hope to anyone who would like Arab Fascists of any color, or shape to be defeated.

It is funny to see how people wedded to a certain ideology can distort reality in service of this ideology. Amira supports a nonviolent, Oslo-type peace process. Therefore, Amira will support Abbas, the willing negotiator, over Hamas - the relentless fighter. Amira, the important thing to do is to accept reality, evaluate it, and plan how to pursue your goals in that enviroment. Don't worry so much about Hamas. If they become a minority party in Parliament, then the majority will "rule". (Parliament does not have much power in the PA system.) In any case, the Persident, Abbas, is interested in negotiations and his will carries the most weight. If Hamas gains a majority, they will have to function as the government and, of necessity, will moderate their ideology or split apart (like Likud). Peace negotiations will take place when Israel comes further down to earth.(According to recent rumors, Sharon will give back 90% of the West Bank and divide Jerusalem.) Similar position to Barak's as he went to Camp David, after which he was willing to yield more. The phony "lies" Amira detects: 1.Gaza is "liberated" in some sense. The settlements and the IDF are out, no road blocks, etc. There is some Israeli control of commers and goers. "Liberated" fits a practical definition, if not a fully legal definition. 2. Of course Hamas was the main cause for Israeli withdrawl. Can you imagine a withdrawl without the Hamas resistance? From a Palestinian point of view, what worked in Gaza can work in the West Bank. Their next step will be to develop their WB activities. If Sharon evacuates the West Bank behind the fence, this will be a step like the Gaza withdrawl, and for similar causes. The world now is more sympathetic to Israel. It was also sympathetic after Oslo. Hamas thinks longer term. More struggle means less sympathy for Israel in the long run. 3.Legalistic hair splitting. The present PA and elections are children of Oslo. But people can claim Olso is dead and participate in a "non-Oslo process".

Liz - Check your facts. Israel has accepted that under International Law it is the Occupying Power- in Gaza. This should be obvious as Israel still controlls all goods entering Gaza by sea also its airspace.

Is this anything more than the so-called Prince's personal wensite?

"if the state of israel represents Jews, as it would claim to do, then I would have to say that Jews are a dishonorable lot." prince, you are in a good company - president of iran, entire hamas movement, I'd even say most of the modern day anti-semits are with you

I guess you are one of those Jews that identifies with all of the Jewish enemies. You probably even acted as a shield for Arafat (may he rot in hell) So I guess that does not say much for you as an icon of Jewish values)

I saw your post. Many thanks to you. Jag Januca Sameaj !!

This is not called "control", it called a war. When Hitler bombed London did he "control" the UK, when UK bombed Berlin at the same time was it "controlling Germany"? When Hamas fires Qassams at Askelon does it "control" southern Israel? When the UN installed monitoring cameras at the Uranium enrichment plant in Istafan - like Israel has at the border crossing - is it "occupying" Iran? Exactly why should Israel provide electricity to a group fighting Israel. Does Syria or the gulf arabs provide Israel with cheap oil? Are they "occupying Israel"? We are out of there, no settlements, no IDF bases. The Palestinians appear to be demanding we carrying on giving the benefits of the occupation - ie Customs union, electricity from Israel or we are still "ocupying" them. Maybe this is simply an excuse.....

Only Amira Hass could make Israel Hamas' willing partner. Her journalistic riff on the failings of Oslo to give Palestinians what she claims they wanted (of course they never wanted, and still don't want, the whole country, free of Jews according to Ms. Hass) should be made into an opera, or at least be accompanyied by violins.The Palestinians have had free will throughout the process commenced by Oslo Ms. Hass, and deliberatly chose war. The facts are the facts are the facts, and no determined bias will change that Ms. Hass. Balance and objectivity will set you free Amira !

Patriotism of her country you say. Pity. You mean Palestine? as in Ramallah you mean?

May I suggest a way for your people to be happy. But first you must tell me whether you are of the Egyptian, Syrian or Iraqi stream of ?Pals?. But here goes: Jordan has a large empty expanse of land (78% of Palestine) available with a sparce population of which 67% is ?pals?. Another 2-3-4-5-6 million Arabs would hardly make a dent. If the UN were to kick in $2 billion and the EU another $2 billion Ditto for The USA, Israel and Saudi Arabia Jordan could become self sufficient in no time. You could continue with Hamas, Jihad etc. take over Jordan and have multiple Intifadas going and have suicide bombings to your hearts content and meet all those virgins ar will with no one trying to stop you. You could also make Jordan into a de-facto one large refugee camp and continue to collect UNWRA money. See everyone would be happy. But especiall your people. They would have it all.

I think that the title of this article is wrong. it should be titled "Why the Oslo peace accord, the camp david meetings, taba, and all the informal negotiations failed,how the Gaza strip was converted into terrorists playground, when Anarchy and choas became rampant in the west bank and where did all the billions of aid money given to the PLO go...and how to blame it all on Israel" Its a bit long but it covers a lot of ground

and are more and more seen as collaborators in the Israeli annexation, expansion and confiscation of Palestinian land envisoned for a state in both OSLO 1&2 as well as the Road Map. The first time Abu Mazen resigned it was due to the reluctancy of the occupiers to award him anything for advocating the diplomatic path and the second time coming will be for the very same reasons, but then on the other hand what would be the reason to negotiate with a PNA that doesn't have the support of the people or the mandate to speak for them. It is obvious that the PNA is losing the grip of being the sole policy setter for the Palestinians. Fatah will have a role to play in the future, but they have f-cked up so completly by appeasing the occupiers that they have lost most of the support they once had. The problem being that they have NOTHING to show for "their way" of going about it and that is the clear and stated policy by Israel:"Give them nothing", because Israel fears nothing more than people willing to talk to them about "an end to the occupation that started in 1967", this because Israel have NO intentions what-so-ever to "end the occupation that started in 1967", so the "Militant era" is back but in another shape and form. The Hamas has done just what the Americans have encouraged all Arab states to do, 'bring the militants into the democratic process'and now the Arab states look to Washington to see what would happen in their countries, if indeed they adhere to this American policy wish and they also look to Palestine to see if they could lose their power by allowing this to happen, even if Palestine is a rather different case, however..... they observe.

...err...Jane...Amira does live in Ramallah Palestinians like and respect her ( I think they enjoy the novelty of coming into contact with a Jew who's not pointing a gun at them ) Actually on a serious note people who have met her are impressed above all with her deep patriotism and love of her country

I am not sure where the anger stems from but as a past Psych student I can attribute it either to the fact that she has been DUMPED by a Jewish boyfriend or that on the rebound has acquired a Muslim boyfriend (husband)and happens to be a masochist. It could also stem from having to go into journalism because of a brain dysfunction and being shunned by all the other newspapers in Israel. Or it could be that old simple displeasure of being born a Jewess and wanting to lash out at the Jews and in short being that all familiar Self Loathing Jewess. In any case it is now 10:44 AM in Toronto and you already have 34 posts? Why do any Jews need to reply to that dribble. Let the Arabs have a field day amongst themselves. Haaretz will get the message.

to the author of 'Amira Haas - The Tali Fahima of Journalists': you are completely ignorant, you are indoctrinated by lies no less than some of the worst islamic extrimists. Maybe you need to visit west bank and see for yourself, and talk to palestinians instead of sitting in Palm Beach and spreading lies about one of the few israeli journalists who actually lives in west bank/gaza. Oh, and by the way, myself as well as hundreds if not thousands of other Jews visited and lived with Palestinian and none of them was killed or murdered. So, keep your ignorant opinions to yourself.

From postings of today and yesterday it would seem that I have misjudged you. I must therefore apologize for my uncalled for outburst to you of a few days ago. Hanukah Sameach to you and yours. Gabe

"Israel controls Gaza" Just like the U.S. controls Mexico. Because there are border patrols and yes, a wall is being constructed in New Mexico and Arizona. As for the Israelis cutting off power to Gaza, the power facility is located in Ashkelon. They don't have to provide power to Gaza. The Saudis who care so much about their oppressed Arab brethren can build Gaza their own power generating facility.

"Go out into the streets with their arms in the air and let the iaf shoot them dead. The iaf would have to stop at some point, but how many innocent and defenceless Palestinians would they shoot dead before they did stop?" The answer is ZERO. The IAF has never attacked a car swarm or a Hamas parade of armed men waving AK47's and missile launchers shouting "KILL THE JEWS" so there is no reason to believe they would open fire on a group of people holding hands and singing "give peace a chance."

The fence around Gaza is a security fence Prince, to stop terrorist bombers from simply walking into Israel. If the Navy didnt patrol the Gaza coast - who would? There would be all kinds of weaponry flowing into Gaza by sea as well as by land if the Israeli Navy wasn't there. To have an occupation you have to have troops on the ground, there are no Israelis left in Gaza, therefore there is no occupation.

I agree with Amira; whose knowledge of Palestinains society is second to none amongst Israeli hacks. As a secular person who likes very much to see a separation between religion and politics, I am neither a supporter of Hamas as a political force nor for what it stands for as an ideology. However, I must add that the problem does not lie with Hamas or its ideology. The Palestinian society is not pro Hamas by default but is sick and tired of both the PA and the Israeli occupation. The PA is very much seen as a failure. People like Abu Mazen have failed to deliver in terms of ending the occupation and improving every day life of ordinary Palestinians. Most Palestinians would like to know what Abbas says to George Bush when he goes to the White House! Why doesn't his friendly relations with the US president resulted in the easing of Israeli stranglehold on the lives of Palestinains? What has he got in return for being nice and 'moderate'? Palestinians are also extremly sceptical of the Israeli intentions for the reasons mentioned by Amira. Most Palestinians dont trust the Israelis nor they believe that Israel wants peace. In brief Hamas does not represent an alternative but rather a protest vote. The people are fed up and feel they have had enough of Israel, the PA, the donors, the US, the Arabs and everyone else. They just want to live an ordinary life and bring up their kids by having some normality in their life. They are sick and tired of seeing their kids suffer everyone morning when they have to wake them up at 5 a.m so they could be at school by 8 even if the school is only a coupel of miles down the road. The humiliation they face on Israeli checkpoints is nothing short of pure sadism. Smug Israeli teenagers wearing army uniform playign soldiers take great delight in delaying and insuting people of all ages. Most Israelis have not got a clue what its like to live under military occupation. The Israelis are seen as cruel, aggressive, heartless and have no grain of humanity. It would take a miracle to bring peace to this richid land and even if it does happen, I doubt it very much that it would happen in our life time.

People ask me 'Amira, what makes you an Israeli?" The answer is that I love a people that is too broadminded to take its own side. A nation that pursues goodness so obsessively that it gives up its own national, civil and even human rights to make others feel better. Like me. An idealism that is more Christian than the Christians, more Buddhist than the Buddhists, more Gandhian than Gandhi. Like me. A country so starved for universal acceptance it allows external mmanipulation and interference contrary to its own vital interests. Like me. A society that allows me to make a living projecting my own dysfunctional masochism and fawning adulation of any dictatorial fascistic evil thugs and savages that exhibit the starength I wish I had for myself. Like me. Or if not, at least allows me to nag them about it. That's why I like Israel. Because it's just like me.

I can't understand why Amira Haas stays in Israel. She would be able to damage Israel more if she joined her soul-mates in Ramallah or Jenine. Could it be that she is worried that they would murder her like they do any Jews they get their hands on?

They are threatening to cut the electricity off PRINCE because the terrorists inside Gaza wont stop firing rockets into Israel. And regardless of how you phrase it, according to the rules of the game Israel is no longer occupying Gaza. Get over it.

What a bunch of crap. The writer is a Terrorist supporter. Nothing more.

hamas, islamic jehad, al aqsa brigade, the hizbollah....all came into existance post 1982,as concequences of short sighted israeli policies,none of which have changed. prehaps these policies have only got worse, and more self defeating. as can be gauged from these columns many israelis continue to believe they can force a "peace" deal down the palestinian throat. what happened to the vaunted jewish wisdom? israel is behaving just like apartheid south africa before de klerk saw the light.wheres the israeli de klerk? its not about whose right or wrong, its about not hiding from reality.

Hamas really doesn't want to rule ... only strogly influence ... at this time. The Palestinian street, admiring Hamas for many reasons, would still prefer Abu Mazen's diplomatic approach to the currently escolating war ... but Fatah failed. If I were allowed to vote ... I think I would vote for the constituant candidate of my choice and one of the Fatah lists. The young guard's list is propbably going to win anyway.

That suicide bombers are considered by many posters here as a valid form of "resistance"

No matter how this turns out the PA it finished. Abbas has played the 'weak' card so long that now he truly is weak, as well as stupid. Hamas has done nothing but lie. The PA has refused to fulfill any of the most basic of obligations. A call to end their violence. Now the people are sick and tired of their lies and will vote for Hamas. The US and EU will end all aid to the PA when that occurs and since the Arab nations do not care about fellow Arabs, guess what? No more aid coming in, darn they may not be able to afford more weapons. As for Israel turning off the power, where is that power generated? We are paying for it, so it's too bad. They better hope that Egypt will be willing and able to pick up the slack.

Anyone familiar with Amira Hass knows that she is one of the most radical anti-Israeli writers on staff at Ha'aretz. For those still unfamiliar with her "work", this article must be headlined with an ambiguous enough lead to draw in readers who support Israel, thus "On the three lies of Hamas". Of course, when one enters Amira's hall of mirrors, one encounters the usual distorted reality ("villages that have been transformed into prisons"), the hyperbole ("monstrous checkpoints"), and the banal sloganeering ("imperialist America"). Nowhere to be found in this editorial -- one that would make Mahmoud Ahmadinejad proud -- is any recognition of the raison d'etre of Hamas as explicitly stated in their charter: the eradication of Israel, or mention of the 10,000 Palestinian terrorist attacks and attempts over the last five years. For Hass and her ilk, anything Israel does -- short of rolling up and airlifting her Jewish population out of the Middle East -- is a violation of Palestinian "rights" and thus reflects a failure to honour the (long-discredited) Oslo accords.

To Ms. Hass: Thank you for reading this. Without connection to this or any other particular article of yours, I am wondering - and I really mean this, not in a cynical way, but in a truly curious and open-minded way - if you could write an article on "The Three things I admire about Israel" [or some such similar title], and what those things might be. Could you do this? Thank you, and Happy Chanukkah.

So if Syria occupies shabaa farms than Lebanese has a right to violently resist that occupation too? IF no, why not?

Imagine if HAMAS wins in January - It would be the first democratic change of government in the history of the Arab world. but it would probably also bring about the end of the peace process and therefore the end of the country in which the election took place how ironic

From elsewhere in this same edition of Haaretz: "Agriculture Minister Israel Katz (Likud) told israel radio on Wednesday that israel should bomb the Gaza Strip, forcing some of its residents to flee to the Sinai desert." israel will - does - bomb Gaza, and send its troops in, whenever it feels like it. This is called 'control'.

israel has a monitoring station in which it can keep an eye on the border crossing between Gaza and Egypt. And look for my other post about cutting Gaza's electricity.

I see one of the four Haaretz articles currently seeking our comments is "idf may cut off electricity to Gazans". You see what I mean when I say that israel controls Gaza from outside??? How can it be more obvious????

Prince, Gaza shares a border with Egypt. Israeli forces are no longer manning that border. Pls check your facts before commenting.

Perhaps it is time for the Palestinians to try mass peaceful protests. Go out into the streets with their arms in the air and let the iaf shoot them dead. The iaf would have to stop at some point, but how many innocent and defenceless Palestinians would they shoot dead before they did stop? The world might finally come to realise the brutality that is the state of israel.

israel was not forced out of Gaza by anything any Palestinian faction did or did not do. israel withdrew as part of its giant fraud that the Gaza withdrawal represents some sort of concession that might be followed by more concessions; the fraud that this represents a move to peace. In return for its withdrawal (and keep in mind that israel still CONTROLS Gaza from outside) the US - that other beacon of light, freedom and democracy to other nations - magnanimously ceded to israel the Palestinian lands occupied by israel's vast settlement blocs in the West Bank. Under the smoke and haze of the lies surrounding the Gaza withdrawal, israel continues to build its apartheid wall. it continues to expropriate Palestinian land in the West Bank. Plenty of Western governments are only too ready to swallow the lie. There is a parallel between the Gaza withdrawal and the withdrawal from southern Lebanon in May 2000. israel needed to get out - it wasn't force out - because it was about to relaunch its war of dispossession against the Palestinians four months later in September 2000. It was not a god idea, as the military strategists keep saying, to be fighting on two fronts simultaneously. israel could have easily remained in Gaza and kept on accepting the costs and the steady loss of life, as it had done for years. A few Jewish lives here and there are nothing to the junta that runs israel.

Every letter, every word and every sentence in the letter written by Yasser Arafat to Yitchak Rabin immediatley before the Oslo Accords were signed in 1993.

There are many honorable Jews; perhaps more honorable Jews than dishonorable; probably the proportion of honorable Jews to dishonorable Jews is no different to hon./dishon. Catholics or Muslims; but if the state of israel represents Jews, as it would claim to do, then I would have to say that Jews are a dishonorable lot.

Liz gives a definition of 'occupation': 'control of a nation or territory by foreign armed forces'. Think about it, Liz. Does israel control or not control the Gaza Strip from outside? It keeps a tight patrol of the coast. It has a fence around it on land. It has numerous military posts watching it. Its air force flies over it regularly. I think you will have to come up with a definition from an israeli dictionary. That might suit your purposes better.

The relationship betwwen Israel and Palestine is that of "a very mean master and an increasingly rebelious slave". Arabs know this. The rest of the world is waking up to this reality. HAMAS as the underdog and sharp edge of Palestinian rebellion attracts sympathy and admiration. There's not much that Israelis can do about that other than taking a good look at themselves in the mirror once in a while. Amira is probably a mirror to start with.

History Lesson - long forgotten by everyone: The new Jewish State in 1948/9, under more painful and difficult circumstances with no offers of international help, sorted its own 'house' out. The Jews are honourable. Abbas didn't want to do anything - now it's backfired on him, bye bye Abbas.

Hamas lying?? I'm flabberghasted, but what else may I ask did you expect from a terrorist group as cold-blooded as Al Qaeda. And its also a big surprise to see Khalid defending a terror group and blaming Israel for everything...oh wait, no its not!! If the moon suddenly broke apart Khalid would blame Israel for it. And incidentally, Gaza is no longer "occupied", the definition of "occupied in the dictionary is "control of a nation or territory by foreign armed forces" Israel no longer has feet on the ground in the territory, therefore it is not occupying the Gaza Strip despite the nonsense that Khalid and his like continue to post.

Khalid and Amira, your arguments are vicious and fallacious. Palestinians will ever and ever criticize Israel and make it responsible for all the palestinian sins. Israel is responsible for the internal disorders in Gaza and Bethlehem, for the suicide bombers, etc.., etc... Will Palestinians be satisfied only if Israel is wiped out from the map? Palestinians will never have this satisfaction, they will never be satisfied. Is the reason that they have been educated to hate Jews and Israel?

The "precious goods" promised "over the last 12 years" could all have been delivered by now (all in the last year!) and Fatah would be the heroes of the day, had they seen fit to disarm Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the terrorists spawned from Fatah itself, the Al Aqsa Martyr Brigades. Had Abbas done anything this year, he could have won it all for the Palestinian people. What, is he paralyzed or something? Or just mentally retarded? Amira Hass' argument sounds reasonable, since she clarifies to Khalid and others here that terrorism wins you nothing. I'm shocked, I really thought she was as guilty as Fahima.

Forget about any specific article Amira Hass writes. The major point to notice is her total emotional and sympathetic, also political identification with the Palestinian Arabs. Note that even when she chides them as in this piece, the ultimate culprit is made to be Israel. She displays an old - fashioned human characteristic which used to be called 'prejudice' or 'bias' Once upon a time a reliable reporters was expected to be without this trait.

Yes. The simple fact that the Palestinians are voting for Hamas implies that they don't trust Israel anymore. They know they will never get anything close to a fair deal with Israel. And probably the best thing for Israel would be to strengthen the PA and make a deal along the lines of the Geneva Accords, before it is too late. However, Hamas as a representative of the Palestinians will only have as a consequence a growing expansion of the myth that the Palestinians are no partner for peace. This will only perpetuate the endless conflict.

The establishment of a Palestinian State alongside a Jewish State is a still a possibility if pursued without violence. Does Hamas leadership have the goods (without the bombs) to deliver? Depends if there can be found amongst them a leader who really loves his children and would one day like to take them over to his Israeli neighbor's kids to play.

Hamas,P.L.O. Fatah,P.A. Abu dis and Abu dat. They are all the same. Their only reason for occupying and residing in Israel is to kill and maim as many Jews as possible no matter how long it takes or what means to use. It is time for Israel to respond to this implacable enemy by the only means left- Voluntary transfer of all hostile Arabs

There are no more stupid Israelis that believe that you want Peace. There NEVER was an Oslo (as the world meant it) - it was merely the first step inthe "multi-stage" plan to destruction of Israel. We're lucky we finally caught on with it. We will deal with Hamas and with Fatah as we always did - don;t worry about THAT. End your dream of destroying Israel and if you do not like us here, on OUR ancestral lands, you should go back you your own ancestral lands - Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Turkey, Jordan and Saudi Arabia.

She is right about the disingenuous nature of the Israeli commitment to peace, beacause a true peace seeker doesn't build up an extensive infrastructure of apartheid that would perpetuate a inherently criminal occupation. But she is wrong on the fact that Oslo remains alive. It is actually dead. It died a long time ago, and the killer of Oslo is Israel, not the PA or Hamas. What we have to day is the post-Oslo ugliness and deformity. The Palestinians are not holding elections because they believe peace is around the corner. They know that true peace needs many many years. But we need the elections to put our house in order, to enhance our ability to withstand the evilness of the occupation, to be in a better position and better prepared to extricate our rights from Israel's parsimonious hands. Yes, Gaza is not liberated. It is controlled by Israel. But isn't this what justifies the continuation of the resistance there?

Amira, as any other perfect "liberal journalist" indulges in the same sin: stating "facts" out of context just to make them fit her own agenda. 1. Oslo accord was all about a just peace in the ME. Peace that was hijaked by countless wars that the neighboring Arab states had waged against Israel. Same "peace" has been hijaked by the Muslim terror. And for some obscure reason the onus was on Israel to cede lands that Arabs lost in their foolish wars. In exchange for this, Arabs were expected to offer one thing - Peace. 2. The Arab drem was not peace WITH Israel but Peace WITHOUT Israel. Don't forget that Israeli gave the PA weapons that later were used againmst Israeli soldiers in the joint Palestitnian-Israeli patrols and later against Israeli civilians. TWICE Israel was ready to go for a final arrangement - including a Palestinain State - only to be met by more Palestinian Terror. 3. After the Oslo accord the Palestinain "education" system continued and even accellerated the process of anti-Israel and anti-Jewish indoctrination in kindergartens and schools, breeding new generations of terrorists. Same thing went on in PA "Police" camps where the primitive terrorists were traind in modern combat techniques, to be used against Israel. Quite a "peace", don't you think? 4. Palestinian agitators tried to create an intifadah within Israeli borders in 2000 by poisoning Israeli Arabs' minds with empty promises and blatant lies. No - peace with israel was NEVER on Palestinian's agenda - on the contrary. They NEVER hid their real agenda of wiping Israel off the map. No, not like Iran's Top Nut would like to, but by following a "multi-staged" plan made public by their "great leader" Arafat. These are only small examples of facts that so conveniently Amira "forgets" to mention. Small examples with great significance to the current situation of the Palestinians. There is not one sane Israeli today who believes one single word the Palestinian "leadership" says. We rather believe that the terrorists' leaders say the truth - the truth that so foolishly "escapes" the Israeli Left - the fact that unless we take measures to proactively protect ourselves, there is no amount of appeasing, restraint and land that will stop the Arab quest for removing each and every Jew out of these lands, dead or alive. This also includes you - Amira!

There are no more old PLO and FATAH. There are no more OSLO. Deal with HAMAS and the New FATAH. End the occupation.