Not Sparta - and just as well

Fr Tim, I am a Catholic too. Have you studied the revelations of Mohammad and the manner of it and what he did after it ? If gabriele Amorth study the manner, he would call it perfect diabolical possession. I believe pope John Paul II reached a conclusion without studying the Koran and how it came about. Mohammad was more like a temple oracle of Diana than anything else. You will be shocked by the truth. Belief in "one god" does npt mean true God, you know. Even the Satanists believe in "one god"

This is really crazy what you Born again evangelicals believe, I even heard that you say that Catholics are going to hell so you people are just intolerant. God Bless, Father Tim

This may come as a surprise to you but, in Jewish thinking, people who seek to convert us have generally been considered to be MORE dangerous than people who seek to kill us. That may be why your comments about the theology of Islam and the Bible are not producing the effects you may have anticipated.

Ancient Sparta had nothing to do with Marxism. Sparta, during classical times when it was militant and following the notorious Agogi system, was ruled by oligarchs who were supported by men of property. I don't think the ancient world produced anything resembling Marxism. However, IMO, one of the best statements in favor of ownership by, and collective power of, the people above kings is the prophet Samuel's powerful diatribe against the appointment of King Saul.

Maria, I'm not convinced that Allah is a Moon god, but if he is, it does not offend me as a Jew. Indeed, if he married the Sun goddess as you suggest - I assume you mean the goddess Shapash - it connects the people of Arabia with Israel, as it can be argued that YHWH has solar attributes or at least that he was thought to be solar by the people of ancient Judah (but not Ephraim).

Bill, Like the culture of ancient Sparta, the planet and star based religions of the ANE are often misunderstood. Allusions and metaphors in the Tanak connecting Yaakov to the Sun and Rachel to the Moon go far beyond Yosef's dream. In Tehilim, for instance, Yaakov is called the face of the Sun, and of course he has 12 sons, 12 being a solar number. What is often not appreciated, and what the hahamim of the Talmud certainly could not have known, is that many of the celestial-oriented people of ancient Israel and the neighboring countries were NOT idolotors. Thousands of inscriptions have been unearthed in the last couple of centuries, revealing that they did not worship the idols or the Sun, the Moon, or stars AS GODS. Rather, they saw them as reminders of the gods' presence as divine spirits. You can debate whether there are many spirits, just one, or none. But it is wrong to portray non-Yahwists as servants of the material; the midrash of Avraham smashing the idols is wrong.

In a remarkable discovery US supplied Hezbollah with hight tech intelligence gathering equipment. Nobody is talking who trained Hezbollah to use it and taught computer engineers to desig software to operate the systems. Most importantly what Operating System was used to devise system operational. Open Source? any comment? In the light of this article the words "Israel has the right to defend itself" take a very ominous tenor. At the same time I whish Mr. Olmert the wisdom and the courage to resume pull out from West Bank territories. The grave reality is we are not able to defend our citizens in those places. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/08/20/MNGK9KLVH41.DTL

Where does Hollingsworth get those false notions about Jewish theology?

In the 20th century the West listened to the cries of European Jews, especially after the Holocaust (which should never be allowed to happen again to any human group.) They gave them Israel (but not Palestine!) with the interest of the West in mind. They wanted to establish a foothold in an area that was too foreign for them and felt they could rely on the Jews much better closer to oil. This is modern Imperialism; imperialism by proxy. Not sure they calculated extremism will breed extremism. As a consequence, Jews and Arabs both suffer. There is still time to change things regardless how ugly them may appear. Hold on to optimism. If thrown out the window, what?s left may well lead to another Holocaust for all. Remember Israel lead the nuclear race in the region. How about leading nuclear disarmament first?

Israel is sore that will never heal. All ethnic based territories are sores that will never heal. When the UN passed 242 the leaders of Israel should have said, 'Hold on, lets make this a ethnically diverse and inclusive country', but they didn’t. They chose the path of ethnic cleansing and persecution. Zionism is no better than American Manifest Destiny or German Nazism. There will be a one state solution. It is just a matter of time before Jews are out numbered in their own Jewish state. I hope that the Arabs are kinder to you, at that point, than you have been to them for the past 50 years.

Is Nararallah not Arab himself? And surely their military "exploits" since about 800 AD would support they the theory that in military terms they are worthless? Look at Egypt woth it's 70 million people and Suadi with it billions; that pair confirm every negative perception of Arab fighing spirit ever made!

"Remember, Israel admission to the UN was based on:... Thus Israel has no choice as it is legally bound and it has no proper legal status until it does. Hence, other states can refuse to recognize its legitimacy." Dutch, I don't know where you get this stuff. U.N. membership does not preclude the legal rights of a state. The Vatican City and Taiwan are not UN members. Switzerland didn't join until 2002. Were nations of the world free to "refuse to recognize the legitimacy of" Switzerland pre-2002? Palestine is not a member. Should we consider any notion of legal rights for the entity of Palestine to be moot? The U.N.'s own rules don't require that all nation-states be U.N. members. For those countries that aren't, the U.N. still considers them to be real.

Hi Mr.Doron, I would just like to make a few comments on what u wote.do u know that throughout the Islami History i.e around 14 centuries (minusthe last last 60 years) the Muslims have been the potectors of the jews, the same way u now consider USA to be your real protector!! Now the big powers are using israel fo thei own end and iam sure in not too distant future maybe 100, 200 or 300 years, they will lose their interest in Israel and what would u people then do?? by the time you people realise who your firneds are/were i am afraid it woud be oalready too late iam sure u people know your history in europe. how after a few decades there use to be persecution of jews in european countries. it almost followed a time table!! now because of the holocaust and the guilt of the europeans isreal was planted in the heart of mideast. because of that the the almost 1300 year old excellent relationship betwen jes and muslims came to an end.now u people have no real friends l

Why Israel today has a cultural stigma that cannot be resolve by its own citizens.... Read on.. To all of you guys who are contemplating more war and more destruction: In today?s geopolitical map, the facts on the ground are more realistic than fiction. MENA, i.e. Middle East and North Africa, surrounds Israel. Since 1948, Israel has been on I.V. Life Support for much of the time since its inception. Today, MENA is calling it the Seventh War in Middle-East. Yesterday, ISRAEL claimed that it could send her women on Bikes to overtake all of Lebanon. Today, the facts are already being written into the history books as we speak. But what about Tomorrow? Well, here is a good scenario for ya'alls entertainment: MENA is growing in number and determination to reclaim the past. ISL is still on I.V. life support and will be for the foreseeable future. When earthlings go to Mars, they have to wear life supporting articles and be supplied with Oxygen in order to survive. In MENA, that?s the same story with Israel. As long as ISL is on I.V., it will not be part of MENA. Israel has to come off this I.V. support and blend with MENA culture and Not the other way round. That?s History-101 for you-all. Today, Islam is the fastest growing religion on earth... facts on the ground already and undisputed even in the white house. But Islam has been hijacked by the few as we know it today. But still, Social Islam is growing everywhere and it represents the ideal of what MENA believes. The current crisis is Middle-East is creating more radicals and more extremist out of Islam. This is a very crucial fact that Israel has to take into consideration now. Play it safe and stop this fool-hearted arrogance and be a team player in Middle East. Israel, you have to stop ?breaking the arms? of the people around you. Its a dead-end game.. can't you see that. More and more radicals are regrouping and sprouting every where; and it can only get worse as we all know today. Nobody wants this. Stop this poisonous philosophy of yours, its only making more enemies against you... can't you see this..oh Israel... don't be blind.. Now, the real issue is that the culture will grow on its own turf in MENA and that will include the state of Israel. The Language of the culture is called," Arabic" and the culture is referred to as Purely Semitic Middle Eastern culture. It?s up to Israelis to realize the inevitable. Whether they have Drones, F16 or Nukes, the culture is much stronger and by far the most sophisticated tool that the earth history have ever experienced. I can easily envision that the settlers loose their European accent and heritage and blend with MENA culture and most importantly, come off this I.V. artificial life support and play a positive role in Middle East Meaning, they have to really breath the air and really drink the water and absorb the beautiful Arabic culture and be dusted off once in a while with the same dust that our prophets Abraham, Moses Jesus and Mohammad had the honor of going through. Let?s Baptize you-all with a dish of Humus and Falafel as a starter and then we'll talk about the music of MENA. Welcome to Middle East, the land that does not forget. Amir AL-Safir

Bill from NZ says it is " The god of Islam verses the G-D of Israel". I wish to point out that a keen student of Islam should also know that muslims claim that their God is the God of Abraham. Further in every prayer it is mandatory to intercede to Allah not just for Muhammed but also Abraham. So let us leave God out of it,

Daniel Pipes does not know Scripture. He is not an authority. Also, no sound, orthodox Christian authority ever claimed that the god of Islam to be the same as Jehovah. Only liberal, critical so-called scholars would ever go there. Muslims might think they are the same, but that is because they do not read or understand the Bible. This is why you have all the problems! There is only ONE True God. READ Isaiah 44:6-8!!

to find out all about christianity...read the bible.

God of Israel and allah are different.don't you know that islam in arabic means peace? do they? researh the bible, not the ordinary book.

you're wrong. God of Israel and allah are different. allah means moon god...he married the sun goddess.

i'm a christian from the philippines.thank you for your post. My family and I support jacob(israel)

Amen to that.

Who ever wrote this message had never been in Israel. Israel has a lively, happy and prosperous society where people are happy and for the most part feel much safer compare to many Europian cities.Take into account many Christians living and also visiting Israel in ever increasing numbers.Immigration to Israel is non-stop and Israeli people are quiet comfortable living there. I know many American Israelis who still prefer life in Israel to life in America. People like John are saturated with misinformation that is forcefully propagated by all muslim countries and if you ad to it a little antisemitic strick than you will see wishful thinking on John's and likes like him part....

As one can see in the following verse in the Koran, muslims don't worship a "moon" god as much as jews don't worship a "star" god because the Jews have the star of david to represent them. This logic held by some christians and jews simply is ludicrous! [41:37] "And among His signs are the night and the day and the sun and the moon; do not prostrate to the sun nor to the moon, but make prostration to Allah Who created them, if Him it is that you serve."

DANIEL PIPES A NEO-CONSERVATIVE JEWISH ZIONIST SAYS MUSLIM DO WORSHIP SAME GOD AS JEWS AND CHRISTIANS: http://www.danielpipes.org/article/2714 Asked if Muslims worship the same Almighty as Jews and Christians, President Bush replied some months ago, "I believe we worship the same God." The Islamic deity, known as Allah, in other words, is the same Supreme Being to whom Jews and Christians pray. CONTINUED ON THE

Now that you've sat on the eggs basket you pretend that the not choicen clean your behind. You really must think that the rest of the world is populated by fools

Dear Proud Defender: Remember, Israel admission to the UN was based on: (1) Accepting a full fledged Palestinian sovereign state (UN resolution 181 ) and (2) accepting the return of the refugees to "their home" as in UN resolution 194. Thus Israel has no choice as it is legally bound and it has no proper legal status until it does. Hence, other states can refuse to recognize its legitimacy. Thanks, Dutch

We Europeans just have no business fighting against Islam. This is just not our war.

Exactly. What happens to Israel when US support fades away ? Better not to rely too much on the "empire". Or just become the 51st state...

I too am distrustful of any state that is a professed religious state. To me, a Jewish state is no better than an Islamic state.

You have a good idea : why not move the Israelis to Canada ? There is still plenty of space, much more than in Palestine. Then the Middle East can return to normal. Refugees can finally come back. And there will be peace.

There should be no war against Islam. What is needed is a war against injustice, occupation, oppression, and indifference. When the US, Israel and the UK understand it, it will be the end of terrorism and peace will prevail.

We sure dont want Israel in NATO !

The U.S.,Britain,and Israel seem to be fighting the war against Islam while the cowardly Europeans stand around trying to appear neutral. The U.S. needs to act now against Iran and their stooge,Syria. I don't mean more talk. Semper Fi

One simple question, which is knocking my head every time and then: Why does israel bind its fate with the fate of the U.S.A in particular on all political, military, economic, educational and even social levels. Your wise men, i am sure, should have known that super powers could never stay super for ever, whatever they have been given power, strength and pride. World is changeable in decades or so.

My friend, somehow you missed the point of what we were saying. Of course, as Christians we believe in the Trinity. All of Scripture clearly defines this. It that God--the One True God--who demands our respect, love, and worship. Elias & I (along with a few others on this post) are just making a simple point that there is BUT ONE GOD! All others are inventions from the minds of men or messengers of Satan. The generic "god" is the one the devil loves to offer unrgenerate mankind--Muslims included. There should be no argument over the Trinity. It is a cardinal doctrine of THE Faith! Blessings! Shalom!

Dino The israelis have a history of choosing the wrong place, did they not wander through the desert for forty years and then settled the only place without oil???

Smart guy

As an American taxpayer, you better believe that israel is the spearhead against global islam. After all of the money and arms we give you? Do you really expect us to get our hands dirty? We have been your friend, ally, banker, and arms supplier for all of these years. we have repeatedly voted against anything that condemns you at the UN. So, when we say "jump", you say "how high". we know you might be thinking that after all of these years of having the mightiest super power on the planet as your close allies, you aren't able to live in peace and prosper like you wanted. Well, maybe one day, but for now, we have a "new middles east" to construct so stop your whining and hop into those nice f-16's we gave you and get on with the business of spreading freedom and democracy!

it is no secret Iran is getting ready for her nuke attack on Israel. As soon as the N. Koreans are done with their underground nuke weapons testing. All is one package deal, paid for by Iran. They had already witnessed the missile tests this summer, and the missiles are ready. The warheads are ready too, only military prudence calls for test before actual use. Therefore, the warning by Hezbollah's leader Nasrallah, on August 9, for the Israeli Arabs to leave Haifa, may apply in the larger context as a warning to all Arabs within the land mass of British West Palestine. Leave ahead of the nuclear bombs. If they don't, the Iranians would be glad to call them all "martyrs". No big deal. Arabs were the scum of the earth in the eyes of the Turkish Empire, they still are the same in the eyes of the up and coming Iranian empire. Blessed may be Allah and Nasrallah his messenger: "I have a special message to the Arabs of Haifa, to your martyrs and to your wounded.I call you to leave this city."

Dear Mr Rosenblum; As you mentioned, the last war proved that Israel does not have a monopoly on prowess at wars with its neighbors. In the same vein, do not think that love of life, culture and creativity are traits that are exclusive to the Israeli society, and not the palestinians, lebanese, etc... Trying to depict arabs as war mongers, life-hating people, no matter how tactful a writer is with his/her words, is flagrantly myopic at the least and outright racist at the most. Maybe you ought to make friends with a refugee in gaza or Ein el-helweh and see how they live life, despite of it all.

The writer claims Israel is not Sparta, but there are striking similarities. Lore has it that Sparta was founded by the Spartiates, who invaded Laconia and subdued the local population, and treated them as second-class citizens. Most Jews in Israel in 1948 were immigrants. The Arab population of Israel is still looked upon as second-class citizens, with contempt and distrust. Then Sparta looked at its neighbours and conquered the Messenes. They were only to be oppressed by force and a couple of Messene wars were fought to subdue their resilience. Look at the occupied territories. Only Spartiates served in the army, and served a long time under harsh conditions. We now see that the conditions of the IDF - at least in the battlefield - is even worse than spartan. 3 years of service is also quite long in international comparison. The Spartan kings were supreme commander. Look what happens in Israel with a PM who for change is not an ex-general. Sparta's "elite" country eventually could not uphold the military needs. It did beat Athens in the Peloponesian war, which started with continual provocative border skirmishes, but left Sparta exhausted. Its hegemony was soon after replaced by that of Thebes and then Macedonia. Where does this leave Israel nowadays?

... those politicians and article-writers, Jews and others, who are clicking their tongues in disappointment at our performance on the battlefield ...... Keep in mind the above people exist and have self respect as Jews, because Israel exits In one way or another the IDF is fighting for the digninty of all the Jews of the World, not just Israeli land and security

in sudan. nice slaughter, applause

You give the example of a tiny state. Anyway, the Marxist-Leninists came to power through a coup and established closed ties with the Soviet Union, Cuba and all the other communist countries, which, as everybody knows, are beacons of democracy. then there was a struggle between members of the government and some people were killed people's revolutionary army. I believe the US did a favor to the people of Grenada.

An eye for an eye, right? Next time the "Lebanon treatment" will be given to Israel, everything will be bombed, and it will no longer be such a nice place to live.

"Could you tell me of a communist or socialist state which is not totalitarian and militaristic?" - KUTW What about Grenada? Why else would Reagan have to invade it?

I think we should all live in peace. maybe if you circulated your email around syria, iran, n. korea, afganistan, iraq, and pretty much the rest of the mid east, then the terrorists will see the light, they won't destroy building in NY, and they'll stop bombing israel, and attacking embassies, and the olympics, and trains in spain, and mailing anthranx, etc. and then we could live in peace. good luck with that bro. tell me what the Iranian Hitler says about your proposal.

You must be high on something. I would trade Canada for Israel in a heartbeat. At least we would have an ally nearby. Israel has been continuosly attacked for years and years. they deal with homicide bombers on a regular basis, and still negotiate with the people trying to kill them. the israelis are peace loving. U say think twice before bombing, well i think there has been several hundred homicide bombers attack israel since 2000. how many times would u let your neighbor bomb u before u did something? i know that if that crap happened here, as long as Jimmy Carter isn't president, americans would not be tolerant. i don't know many countries that would (probably France would tolerate it, but they haven't had a backbone since Napolean left office).

one more thing, dear Indrajaya: certainly you managed to manipulate EU media, or a sizable part of it against IL. there is antisemitism and you knew how to enhance it-not very difficult. BUT even those in the west who hate jews and are happy when attacks are carried out DO NOT RESPECT MUSLIMS. to them, you are useful idiots, good enough to blow yourselves up to kill a couple of jews. ok, there are some loony left wingers that genuinely sympathize with islam for some romantic reasons,poor gainst rich or whatever. but there aren't many. most people that dislike IL and have no problem or even sneer at us being killed here and there do not talk nicely about your faith either. acually, in the everyday life, they prefer us by far to your company. it's just the idea of world jewry they hate. the muslims, they dislike them for real, in the everyday life. NO RESPECT NOWHERE BABY! NEXT TIME PERHAPS...

its nice to hear someone who is from the US or Israel actually say something nice about us. We are the bad guys. Clearly the US and Israel were responsible for the 9-11 attacks, because the radical muslims wished Death to America and Israel, and we didn't die or kill ourselves. So we had it coming. I am so tired of screwing around with these mad-hatters. we have been victimized by them for 30 plus years. enough. i truly pray that we totally destroy them. Truman knew how to end WWII. Bush should a-bomb iran. then see if they'll be in a position to fund Hezbollah. Peace.

Wow, I don't think a person could write a more historically inaccurrate letter. Throughout history the strongest armies have just about always won. You cited the Greeks, Romans, Germans, (and the US-maybe). The Greeks and Romans were defeated because they let themselves get weak. The Romans spread their armies everywhere to conquer, and it bankrupted them. At the time of their demise, they were defeated by stronger foes. And the Nazis, it took the whole world and 6 years to defeat them, b/c they were the most powerful. Had Hitler not gone into Russia, WWII could have ended very differently. And your role model for survival- Switzerland? HA! Hitler owned them. they were RESCUED by the US, UK and USSR. in fact, i don't think one shot was fired by the Swiss to save their own country. Weakness and endless negotiations won't stop the terror states. Read some history.

I agree with you - that is the true essense of Islam, as I see it. It's depressing to see so-called religious leaders who take passages from the Quraan or the Tanach out of context. In my view they are truly corrupt, hypocrites who endanger the spiritual essense of our religion. Unfortunately many people listen to them.

Jeroen, you claim that America and Israeli's power and time is on the decline. First, thats crap. The US and Israel could have won their respective wars (Iraq, Lebenon) in days if our leaders acted with proper and massive force. Why? because we civilized, and don't want to accidently blow up a Mosque. The Mosques are where they store their weapons. Bomb them to ash. We'll never win a war against barbarians, unless we get barbarick too. By the way, you better pray that US and Israel aren't on their last days; because your country would surrender after 1 homicide bomber, like France did in WWII. You better believe the US might keeps you free. The EU certainly doesn't have a backbone. Peace.

"I couldn`t less whether or not the Jewish god is real either because what matters is what you do, not what you believe." Pastor Phil, as a Christian, must have a God to believe in. Cosmos, as a modern Judaic, does not need a G_d to believe in. Pastor Phil does not understand that Judaism does not require the numinous. It does not seek the transcendent. Modern Judaism is here and now, flourishing and surviving only in a kind of cultural ethos, for which the here and now is the only reality. Pastor Phil hopes against hope that some day the Christian God and the Judaistic G-d can get together. But they never will because One is above all creation; the other is the product of creation.

Why does it seem that so many people - from all groups - get more of a thrill out of fighting and warmongering, than seeking peace? Indeed, seem afraid of peace. Is it something in the human condition? Are we just afraid that if true peace comes, things will just get too boring? Or maybe they are too boring now?

I whish there was a rational way to solve our troubles. Indeed, it is always a pleasure to socialize with people then kill them. Unfortunately you confuse a pleasure with needs. Nasrallah and the likes carefully calculate ahead their dead children, and use their plight to influence those who are weak. I very much want to comfort you in your sadness. I whish the unprovoked aggression from Hezbollah was last and world had peace for 1000 years. But let us not forget that our whishes and reality need to balance out. You are calling on Jewish nation to yield to aggressor whose aim is to end our existence. An agressor who does not mind using its infant children to earn points in the world of war combat. It is somewhat poisonous position of yours, I shell point out.

?It was not communist, or even socialist. It was totalitarian and militaristic.? Could you tell me of a communist or socialist state which is not totalitarian and militaristic?

PhiloEvraios, Sparta was not "Marxist." It was not communist, or even socialist. It was totalitarian and militaristic. But then I should have recognized that you didn't have a clue when I saw you used all caps. People who post in all caps are either too stupid to know about the caps lock key, or out of their mind.

when you were a lad?

Now to the "M" in Elohim. "M" indicates the plural of the word, and plural could indicate one of the following: a- plural of respect. b- plural of plurality of Gods despite the belief in one God, the people of Israel continued to worship several gods. They worshiped the golden calf (Exodus 32:4), the Baal and Ashtaroth (Judges 2:13). c- Plurality of the persons. The Lord appeared in the form of three men/angels and Abram addressed them as a singular.(Gen 18). We Christians know that God is one in three persons through the revelation of Jesus Christ the Son of God. Since the Bible is a revelation, then we have the knowledge of the person of God even through the layers of the Old Testament. I hope next time, when you post, you actually use correct theological terms. Ignorance at this level is no excuse. Poosh BaShlomo, Yuannon

Israil is a spoilt child of the west and trying to get revenge of Hitler but from a wrong people. If muslims get stronger they will get revenge on African peaple. Again not from Germans. Wrong .wrong wrong....

Geoff, why are you so aggressive? Think twice, before you bomb! Respect the other like you want to be respected by others. And think about why nobody in the world wants to be a neighbor of today's Israel.

AND CERTAINLY WE WHO LOVE ISRAEL ALTHOUGH WE ARE NOT JEWISH DO NOT WANT ISRAEL TO BECOME LIKE THE ANCIENT SPARTA. HOWEVER, A VERY LARGE NUMBER OF JEWS INSIDE AND OUTSIDE ISRAEL ARE NOW AND HAVE BEEN ALWAYS VERY "LIBERAL" WHICH IS A POLITICALLY CORRECT WAY OF SAYING THEY ARE MARXISTS IN THE TRUE SENSE OF THE TERM. EVEN HAARETZ CLAIMS TO BE "LIBERAL IN A BROAD SENSE"..... SO, PLEASE ISRAELIS WATCH OUT ! YOU CAN NOT BE JEWISH-ISRAELI AND SIMULTANEOUSLY BE "LIBERAL"! YOU MAY END UP BEING AGNOSTIC JEWS LIKE LARRY KING OF CNN WHO IS BETRAYING EACH DAY HIS JEWISHNESS IN HIS INTERVIEW PROGRAMS COVERING THE RECENT WAR.

Rod, whose Aboriginal land are you living on? There is far more justice in Israel's position than for many countries, including Australia, and our treatment of Aborigines. As the joke goes, "yes I gave the Jews milk and honey, Nobel prize winners, performers, scientists, but look at the neighbours I gave them." Why don't you spend a bit of time trying to convince Israel's neighbours to love their children more than they hate the Jews.

last prophet, said who and what proof?

With Bush's encouragement, who is convinced that God speaks to him, Israel has become an instrument for Christian fundamentalists and their vision of the Apocalypse.

You're absolutely right. If they were no Islam, they will be almost no wars. It's precisely the reason why I'm so proud to be a Muslim. We're the last chance in this damned soul world to resist to the evil force which has terrorized the world since five centuries. Colonizing, murdering, raping, stealing, mocking and humiliating. Yes, I'm talking mainly about the West and now their new ally the Zionnists. The party is now finished. Everyone has to go back home and keep quite or the worst is to come for you. No more "discovering" America.... where millions of Native lived. No more invading and killing indiscriminatly the Aborigines and taking their land. No more stealing the wealth of African countries like during the time of the blessed colonies. Brave men are fighting throughout the world to reestablish values like justice, honesty, respect and sharing. If you don't change your stance toward the South, Islam will undoutedly FORCE you first to shrink and second to capitulate.

It's Time For Both Peoples-- To wake up...deal with your own personal ills/self-deceptions...and stop letting yourselves be used as pawns...by others. It's Time-- To seek a fair end to this conflict (based on what has already been requested and/or reasonable other)...and not just pursue unrealistic dreams/personal agendas. It's time for peace people! Those Other People (Your So-Called Supporters)-- Won't say it. ...But--I will. Remember-- These people...sit in their living rooms/comfortable houses every day and every night...in peace. And While They Do So-- They happily tell YOU to keep fighting...and "happily" keep watching YOUR deaths...on TV. Peace-- Is possible. ...And--it's possible...NOW!

Israel is still to some degree...a part of a Western pawn scheme? How can you tell? Israel's Actions Go Beyond Common Sense/Obvious Need For Self-Preservation-- The West has deceived/allowed Israel & Israelis to deceive themselves about what they could accomplish in the Middle East. ...Oh sure, you can pursue Eretz Israel. Sure, you can keep settlements. Oh sure, you don't have to divide Jerusalem. Sure...you can have it all with military might/our backing. Etc. Israel-- Needs to draw lines with ITS supporters who encourage it to go beyond the boundaries of common sense...& self-preservation. These Countries/People-- Are willing to let you be in conflict for the rest of your lives (because it serves their purpose)...& will do it to the death of every Israeli...if required. Israel-- First--wake up yourselves! Then--YOU TOO...must tell YOUR supporters thank you for your support...but NOT at a price of everlasting conflict/the death of every Israeli!

So very well put. Why do so few people view this in the same - and in my view absolutely correct - way? My additional argument is that there are still so many peoples who 'deserve' their own lands and do not have them, but this does not permit them to take others by force. Well articulated, cj.

"The Price To Have/Get These Things From Them-- Is to allow yourselves to suffer/be killed..& be pawns in their conflicts with others...when they feel like it...AND even when if it`s time/there are opportunities...for peace." But what to do if Hezbollah's people see and realize different? Look at the Lebanon: those people coming back to the south are proud now of Hezbollah and the millions coming from her only to restore their houses for the next round and have them as victims or shields again for PR reason for Hezbollah's "case".

As you should! Bottom Line-- ACTIONS speak louder than gifts, resistance/fighting & nice/solidarity words. Where's the progress? Let Us See-- How you are moving us forward toward OUR goals (not yours/theirs). ...Why do you keep asking us to die and suffer...are you sure there hasn't been an opportunity for peace yet? Etc. Iran & Syria-- Have their own countries. ...WHERE IS YOURS? Some Things-- You learn in childhood actually DON'T change. Always question people's/a person's reasons for giving you so many gifts. ...What do they want...what are they asking from you in return for them? Even If-- They are RELIGIOUS, more disciplined, etc. ...Plenty of bad things have been done BEHIND THE COVER OF RELIGION, etc. Now To Israel-- Israel had/has its own agenda...& it's often been as much a part of the problem...as they say the Palestinians/Arabs are. But--

God of Muslims is the same GOD of Prophet Abraham. The Creator of the UNIVERSE: neither A FATHER OF A CHILD nor A CHILD OF ANY "FATHER". I don't know whether HE is the GOD of JEWS or Christians. But He is the same God of PROPHET MOSES, PROPHET JESUS AND PROPHET MOHAMMED. The rest of it is only the concept of man about GOD.

D.Rosenblum's analysis is immensely insightful. But why is Israel so afraid of its neighbors? In reality nobody desires to eradicate it. Even Iran has accepted that the Israeli entity exists, for good. The dispute is about its borders, its endless attacks and neo-colonial wars, its acceptance to act as a US garrison. Sometimes a big mess is better than a victory, because it liberates from the prejudice that Israel cannot live in peace with its neighbors. Not if it constantly tries to expand and chase others out of their land. But inside the 1948 borders, it can live in peace. Nobody will prevent Israelis from going to live in neighboring countries like Arabs live in Israel. Now is the time to revise the approach. Everybody wants peace, with Israel as a good neighbor, not an ennemy. Mutual acceptance. There is nothing more democratic than that. There will be more glory in that retreat than in any new war, and more capacity for expansion of minds and genuine achievement.

...is to find out the creator of all in all. Nature isn't made by different Gods. How could it be? This truth which can't be experienced only but by itself lays hidden in all great religious traditions and they all say it's in you. If you read carefully your own scriptures. And you my Muslim friends, children of the only God, isn't one of Allah's attributes LIGHT? Did someone of your religious guides today ever ponder upon that or is experienced? Or do you and your spiritual leaders think more of the lightning of a Muslim bomb to make your God the greatest? As far as I have understood here in all the threads the latter solely and all of you think this comes from God. You are working hard on the fullfillment of your prophecy of the last days as described in your scripture, the Qoran. Go ahead and do it soon. Man does learn only by trial and error and endless suffering. But it's you folks who will suffer not those misguiding you in the name of your God.

Recently I saw a program in Fox News where a Othodox Rabbi spoke about the promised land. He said the God expelled jews from the land and therefore it is not allowed for them to have a separate country or government whatsoever and they must live among other people like Christians and Muslims. He said it is as per TORAH. As per islamic Quran if the Jews gather is one place that mean the disaster and end of the world and this is what hapenning now.

sadly enough, you have fallen into the same mistake as the Israeli ruling elite you are critisizing. Whereas they were pompous in the military field thinking they are Army Almighty, you believe others are subhuman when compared to Israelis. this stincking concept of others being culturally lower and more primitive compared to life-loving Israelis is repulsive and most importantly- FALSE. Believe me virgins in heaven are the least important of a resistant's concern. your description of motives to resist occupation is borrowed from sick conceited Western propaganda, a stupid simplification and under evaluation of motived that lie behind human desire for freedom and dignity.

you are not beieeng fear for posting selectively over here! freedom of speach right? this is very dissapointing!

Nothing could be farther from the truth. It is absurd to reach so far back into the mists of history to argue about who should have Palestine today, and I apologise for it. Yet the Jews do this, and I must reply to their "historic claim." I wonder if the world has ever seen a stranger sight than a group of people seriously pretending to claim a land because their ancestors lived there some 2,000 years ago! If you suggest that I am biased, I invite you to read any sound history of the period and verify the facts. Such fragmentary records as we have indicate that the Jews were wandering nomads from Iraq who moved to southern Turkey, came south to Palestine, stayed there a short time, and then passed to Egypt, where they remained about 400 years. About 1300 BC (according to your calendar) they left Egypt and gradually conquered most?but not all?of the inhabitants of Palestine. It is significant that the Philistines?not the Jews?gave their name to the country: "Palestine" is merely the Greek form of "Philistia." Only once, during the empire of David and Solomon, did the Jews ever control nearly?but not all?the land which is today Palestine. This empire lasted only 70 years, ending in 926 BC. Only 250 years later the Kingdom of Judah had shrunk to a small province around Jerusalem, barely a quarter of modern Palestine. In 63 BC the Jews were conquered by Roman Pompey, and never again had even the vestige of independence. The Roman Emperor Hadrian finally wiped them out about 135 AD. He utterly destroyed Jerusalem, rebuilt under another name, and for hundreds of years no Jew was permitted to enter it. A handful of Jews remained in Palestine but the vast majority were killed or scattered to other countries, in the Diaspora, or the Great Dispersion. From that time Palestine ceased to be a Jewish country, in any conceivable sense. This was 1,815 years ago, and yet the Jews solemnly pretend they still own Palestine! If such fantasy were allowed, how the map of the world would dance about! Italians might claim England, which the Romans held so long. England might claim France, "homeland" of the conquering Normans. And the French Normans might claim Norway, where their ancestors originated. And incidentally, we Arabs might claim Spain, which we held for 700 years. Many Mexicans might claim Spain, "homeland" of their forefathers. They might even claim Texas, which was Mexican until 100 years ago. And suppose the American Indians claimed the "homeland" of which they were the sole, native, and ancient occupants until only some 450 years ago! I am not being facetious. All these claims are just as valid?or just as fantastic?as the Jewish "historic connection" with Palestine. Most are more valid.

Nothing could be farther from the truth. It is absurd to reach so far back into the mists of history to argue about who should have Palestine today, and I apologise for it. Yet the Jews do this, and I must reply to their "historic claim." I wonder if the world has ever seen a stranger sight than a group of people seriously pretending to claim a land because their ancestors lived there some 2,000 years ago! If you suggest that I am biased, I invite you to read any sound history of the period and verify the facts. Such fragmentary records as we have indicate that the Jews were wandering nomads from Iraq who moved to southern Turkey, came south to Palestine, stayed there a short time, and then passed to Egypt, where they remained about 400 years. About 1300 BC (according to your calendar) they left Egypt and gradually conquered most?but not all?of the inhabitants of Palestine. It is significant that the Philistines?not the Jews?gave their name to the country: "Palestine" is merely the Greek form of "Philistia." Only once, during the empire of David and Solomon, did the Jews ever control nearly?but not all?the land which is today Palestine. This empire lasted only 70 years, ending in 926 BC. Only 250 years later the Kingdom of Judah had shrunk to a small province around Jerusalem, barely a quarter of modern Palestine. In 63 BC the Jews were conquered by Roman Pompey, and never again had even the vestige of independence. The Roman Emperor Hadrian finally wiped them out about 135 AD. He utterly destroyed Jerusalem, rebuilt under another name, and for hundreds of years no Jew was permitted to enter it. A handful of Jews remained in Palestine but the vast majority were killed or scattered to other countries, in the Diaspora, or the Great Dispersion. From that time Palestine ceased to be a Jewish country, in any conceivable sense. This was 1,815 years ago, and yet the Jews solemnly pretend they still own Palestine! If such fantasy were allowed, how the map of the world would dance about! Italians might claim England, which the Romans held so long. England might claim France, "homeland" of the conquering Normans. And the French Normans might claim Norway, where their ancestors originated. And incidentally, we Arabs might claim Spain, which we held for 700 years. Many Mexicans might claim Spain, "homeland" of their forefathers. They might even claim Texas, which was Mexican until 100 years ago. And suppose the American Indians claimed the "homeland" of which they were the sole, native, and ancient occupants until only some 450 years ago! I am not being facetious. All these claims are just as valid?or just as fantastic?as the Jewish "historic connection" with Palestine. Most are more valid.

Some Lines Have To Be Drawn-- Palestinians, Lebanese etc. have to draw some lines with people, supporters & fighters. Support/Social Programs/Schools, Etc.-- SHOULD NOT come at the cost of you NOT achieving YOUR OWN goals (a state, peace, etc.)...not come at the cost of continuing your deaths/suffering in general...AND when there are opportunities for peace. NO MATTER WHAT THEY GIVE YOU! This applies to ANYONE! ...Arab, Muslim, Christian, RELIGIOUS person, Eastern person, Western person, etc. Palestinians, Lebanese, Etc.-- Should be using this sentence often: "Thanks for your support, but know that giving something to us...DOES NOT MEAN that we/our people, our country & our goals...are for sale. See-- If they will continue to help you/help you as much...AFTER you say this. See-- If they will continue to help you work towards YOUR OWN goals. If You Do This-- Then YOU will know what they are up to...& have more control over your own situation.

You sound so mean these days, Click. Anyway, after global Islam lances the boil of Israel, is it then the plan to extend the new caliphate from Spain to Kuwait, or was Zawhiri just funnin' us? Will global Islam then come to London (oops!forgot they're already there!)to lance your English arse, so to speak? Better start dressing your women in chadors and getting those knees in shape for alot of bending (five time a day), and how's your Arabic, 'cause you said in your last post that you "discovered" recently that you're Protestant Irish. Was that true? Or are you changing your ID on us? Anyway, I hope this Post finds you feeling better. Shalom!

As This Commentator Said-- They are willing to fight/continue conflict with Israel, etc....even if it takes the death of every Palestinian (& Lebanese) to do so. I Always Tell Arab/Muslim Supporters Of Groups Such As Hamas/Hezbollah, Etc.-- If they didn't have agendas (internally & externally), would they still be doing their charity work...handing out payments, building schools, etc.? ...Will they still be supporting & fighting for the people of your country to have rights, freedom, vote, justice, etc.? No! ...Look at Them. The Price To Have/Get These Things From Them-- Is to allow yourselves to suffer/be killed..& be pawns in their conflicts with others...when they feel like it...AND even when if it's time/there are opportunities...for peace. Israel-- Is wrong in its' creation of facts on the ground/other non-peace policies--I agree. But will firing rockets from a liberated Gaza make anything better, move any/a peace process forward? No!

In a way--both Palestinians & Israelis are being used as pawns in either the bigger Western agenda or Eastern agenda. ...With Israel not being the innocent pawn in the agendas...however. On an acclaimed tv news program I regularly watch, a guest Arab commentator recently talked about external forces (Iran & Syria) being willing to fight their battles/pursue conflict & their agendas...to the death of every Palestinian...& this is also the case in some ways regarding Israel when it comes to the West. This is how it's structured: Iran & Syria, Etc.-- Support certain factions in Palestine, etc. (Hamas, etc.)...& because they feel like it or have issues they want to solve...they prompt those they finance to do things/perform attacks...often contrary to their (Palestinians & Lebanese) own interests. Clearly-- It's a little about support...but in the bigger picture...Iran & Syria...don't give a damn about Palestinian & Lebanese aspirations/goals...or their suffering.

I find this very interesting...& very ironic. Israel, Jews & Israel Supporters-- Often link what's going on in Israel to the rest of the world/the West...the so-called "Global War On Terror"...& to some the "Global War On Islam"...when it's not. Often One Hears-- "Our war is the same as your war." ..."Your war is the same as our war." ...From Israel, Jews & Israel supporters. Israel-- Has tried every tactic to not make peace...or to pursue unilateral action...to accomplish their agenda. And--they've often been aided & abetted in the pursuit of their non-peace agendas. Now-- The latest PR (public relations)/rhetoric/ propaganda campaigns aren't working. ...And--the latest political tactics aren't either. The So-Called War Against Terror/Islam-- Isn't working...because these conflicts at their roots...AREN'T about either one of these things. They are about injustice & occupation. IT'S TIME FOR PEACE, not unrealistic agendas & continued stupidity!

indrajaya, Actually, the people the Israelis need to bring into modernation are themselves. Consider how they exaggerate the impact of Qassam missiles--you swear they were talking about scud missiles instead of Fourth of July type rockets. Or consider how they compared Sharon to King David when the man had no more interested in justice than the man in the moon. Sure, he was a warlord all his life. Or consider their oversized bulldozers, and oversized settlements and oversized wall. It all reflects back. There's no modernation. Of course, they must do everything on their own as there is no one to talk to either. Yet there are 3.5 Palestinians 15-20 minutes away. I don't know how they are ever going to join the normal world. Perhaps they ought to wall themselves in--just as long as they let the Palestinians out! Then, I wouldn't care what they did. Dutch

how come muslims tell us all the time (besides going away or just dying) we should make "peace" and "not use force". MAN ISRAEL JUST TRIED THAT AND PULLED OUT OF GAZA AND PREPARED MORE PULLOUT. but diverse pigs in the middle east don't want that. they want to try out if they can induce war and anti-west sentiments in the arab world and enhance jew-hatred in the eu. with utterly primitive means, they achieve both. Israel has to hold out until arabs find new ways to amplify their self-confidence. look at the arabs: one mohammed cartoon (pretty harmless) and they scream from algeria to malaysia without even having seen the cartoons. says everything about arab state of mind. until arabs are like that IL might become more militaristic, with all disadvantages that go with it. still better than getting killed and pushed around by goym. making peace, yes - one day, when it's worthwile, like with egypt. not now, after unnecessary pullout.

it is ridiculous one isn't even allowed to use the term "islamic fascism" when 1. muslims kill 100.000 christians in sudan in the last 3 years 2. hezbollah chief wants to kill all jews (all of them shall gather in Israel so he can kill ALL of us) 3. iran wants to wipe IL off the map isn't all of that a bit intolerant? or just "resistance"?

The billions of dollars have made Israel a beggar in a land of plenty. Israel has become such a dependant that it annoys the one who brought them there in the first place. You cant live on borrowing, what will happen when they stop giving. What do you have in your hand, an inheritance, a rich inheritance. This time Israel got its flogging with its pants down, thank God that He spanks hardest the son He loves most. America has a poor history of acclimatizing its kids into the real world, evidence everywhere from Libya down to Lebanon suggests that although America ultimately is for good worldwide they lack the expertise to deal with certain sensitive global issues that require teamwork. Was God crazy to give to Abraham?s decedents the land of Israel in the midst of their enemies? And are Arabs enemies after all. I don?t think there is anybody who is as sweet as a real Arab, talk to those who visit Dubai. Does it matter whether we are Arabs or Jews anyway as it does whether we love God and emulate Him, then we love our neighbor and settle down to what is important to us.

you wrote: Shame on you. Is this what Christianity teaches you to do , to ridicule one of the greatest, if not the greatest, human being to have ever walked on this earth. ridicule???? your being to sensitive ...... that the problem with you people...... your kind of people are saying more harsh things about other religons ..... he's just stating the facts

God bless the both of you for speaking the truth!

that eretz israel lost the war against hizballah. 1 hizballah had to make way for the lebanese army.before the war they vehemently rejected this request. 2 they have been forced to accept "less visibility." 3 their leader now hides like hamas leaders.he is targeted by israel. 4 they have let israel into south lebanon yet again.a real boon for military intelligence gathering. 5 the destruction of lebanon has shamed hizballah.the result is payment of vast sums of dollars to the population. 6 would hizballah provoke israel's wrath yet again?i think not.the destruction of lebanon has cost billions. 7 israel has in short reinstated its deterrence.if hizballah misbehaves then all is to do again. 8 israel now knows of the abundance of anti tank missiles with the insurgents.thatwould surely be taken into account in future fighting. 9 finally look at the casualties.israel lost fewer then 150 killed while the insurgents lost as many as 600 dead.

Sarifice? Okay, you want your state of Israel back with a jewish majority. How do you plan on ensuring that when at the time of its recreation, there were more arabs? Fine, you made some immoral sacrifices to attain it and continue to do so. And the Jews that lived in relative peace in the middle east for thousands of years paid a price, as muslims made some immoral choices when Israel was created. Good, you have your state now. Decide on a FAIR border already. And make the last border you Europeans decide to draw in the middle east. Remember, unlike Europeans who think in borders and nations, arabs and muslims think in people. A palestinian has a right to their land, not because some European drew a border there and called it palestine, but because he lived there. Get out of your European mindset if you want to stay peacefully in the middle east.

could it be because his fellow irishmen in the usa either run bars or are corrupt policemen? while the people he hates are professors at harvard or scientists with nobel prizes?

with a bit of luck mi5 will soon be on to this frequenter of horse races.is he part of the cell that tried to kill mrs thatcher in brighton? clickfool i have it on good authority that the irish were plagued with boils because of nutrition problems.too many potatoes?

Well what exactly do people expect? A nation that's been at war since Day #1 of her existence, constantly battered by terror, more wars, intifadas, threats - almost every one of her people somehow scarred by violence - for heavens sake! If people want Israel to stop waving swords around, stop killing her people and threatening to exterminate them and making promises to destroy her! So simple! Meanwhile, still the stupid conspiracy theories in almost every feedback thread - AIPAC controls Washington etc. Give us a break. If you guys want Israel to be sweet and peaceful, stop telling lies about Jews and stop trying to kill us. Period.

There's always a lot of hate on these forums, so I normally don't post. But who knows, maybe there are reasonable people reading this, so I'm just going to post this once. Why do many Muslims/arab view Israel as a colonial state? It was created when the British took control of palestine and the palestinians were promised their own state there. Furthermore,the Jews that created Israel were Europeans, and they brought all that European racial superiority with them. They hadn't lived in the Middle East for centuries. Sounds like foreign colonialists to me. Who attacked whom? Israelis always compain that the arabs attacked them first? Put aside your notion of a god given right to the land for a petit second. Imagine foreign people coming into a country and declaring it theirs. Would that not be a declaration of war?

That is why it irks me so much, how in hell Israel could not have prepared for Hezbollah in six years, knowing what they are there for & that the confrontation was going to be inevitable. What worries me most, is Israel determined now to correct all aspects & ranks of the IDF, ready to handle proxies properly, & get ready for the possible confrontation with Syria/Iran, beginning immediately, & with the world political picture, her real friends & enemies in mind. And what losers and specific nations going down are you talking about? Other than mainly human behavior, history can not repeat itself because with gigantic evolution & progress, the exect situations never will. That is pure rhetoric and speculations. Bush & Olmert, you know what they say- `here today, gone tomorrow`.

Muslims need to realize something very simple and clear: we Jews have no interest in harming you. We simply want to live our lives. I realize that the world is saturated with evil stereotypes and myths about Jewish people and about Israel. Please try to see that this is nothing but lies and propaganda. It's too bad that the simple idea "live and let live" hasn't sunk in yet. But really, that's all we ask.

Thanks for your reply, Mark. Your part beginning with `Olmert screwed up` on down I totally understand & agree with. I have heard some news first hand now that just got `my blood boil` if you know what I mean, the picture is not pretty at all, although not as totally disastrous as some media makes it to be. But the main idea is totally true; the enemy on the battlefield is not fought by politicians from the `underground` rooms. Especially, uninformed, inexperienced & unskilled in military discipline politicians. On the other hand I totally failed to understand you first part. Failed at one war, start another-who started it? And technically a war yes, but in reality-Iranian first stage check; begun with HAMAS & will bounce right back to HAMAS now, with all the `axis parts` constantly interchangeable. Everything pretty much announced in the open, all conducted in `broad day light`.

Good morning, Mark! I think you're wrong about the Bush camp being more determined to attack Iran. The consequences of a US air attack on Iran are so cataclysmic in terms of a cut-off of Gulf oil, the destabilisation of Iraq and direct long-range missile attacks on Israel that I am totally certain they have been seen by Pentagon war-gamers. The smallest amount of thought shows that the only way Iran's stranglehold on Western oil supplies could finally be lifted would be an all-out land invasion by America, and this simply isn't on the agenda. America is stretched too thin, and the public will for all-out war with Iran simply isn't there. A US attack on Iran simply won't happen.

Good morning, David! "The world can live in peace with Israel", you tell us. Sadly, it always seems to be peace on Israel's terms - when it has stolen all the prime real estate and associated water resources in the region it wants, and consigned the people involved to third class residential status. Sure, any thief is prepared to live at peace, if he's allowed to keep his ill-gotten gains.

This is new "war word", has "Islamo-Fascist" some reasonable usefull content? I had to laugh to read German intellectuals praising Israels love for "international law and democracy", which is the same in other words. Maybe Israel knows it better, allready beyond democracy, and is above it all? IMHO even in Iran there are elections, people did vote for the "Fascist" president. Palestinians voted for Hamas MPs, that are now in prison. Well, democracies can be in war with each other too. Israel may be the most developped democracy in that region, but less education, less democratic tradition, a less developped "state" -- in the case of Palestine, where other countries are openly supporting revolution (against Hamas) -- etc does not make the others "Fascists".

Israel by it's nature is a Jewish state, and although more democratic and tolerant of other religion practices than any of the extremist Islamic states (Saudi Arabia and Iran, for example), there is still an interesting commonality between Israel and any country that defines itself as Islamic. Not that there is necessarily anything wrong with this, although it is totally foreign to the American concept of total separation of church and state. After all, even the New Iraq, which is mostly an american invention, has a constitution which defines Iraq as an Islamic state. I suspect that many Israeli Haaretz readers could provide list of Israel government practices and laws that would sound almost as "medieval" to the many americans as some of Iran's Islamic religious laws and regulations. So y'all ought to remember that, as professed religious states, you have something in common that is alien to those of us from countries which are legally secular.

Cosmos , With all due respect The fact that in Yosef's dream Yaakov represented the sun , Rahel the moon and his brothers the stars is a symbolic interpretation of the dream showing all of Yosef's family bowing down to him . A prophetic dream . It does not mean that we should worship the creation instead of the Creator of the universe . The Tenach is very clear that this is forbidden . Our G-D is a Jealous G-D , We are to worship no other god's or the creation . The result of idoltry , worship of baal and ashterah ; the queen of heaven and the creation - Rebellion against G-D and His WORD - was us as a people being scattered to the four corners of the world . Islam and the gentiles will also receive judgement for their rebellion against G-D and His WORD . Shalom Aleichem .

Elias is still correct. There is but ONE God! Read Isaiah! Try Isaiah 44:6-8!!

You show your ignorance of your heritage! You are the people of the Book. It calls you not only to do, but to BELIEVE! That's why many perished in the desert after leaving Egypt--"they did not believe" [Psalm 78:22, 32]. "Abraham believed the Lord and it was credited to him as righteousness" [Gen 15:6]. Your "doing" means little, without belief in the One who calls you to do it. You are trying run a race on one leg. Better get youself back into YOUR Book! Your "culture" will not save you--only your God. Turn back to Him, and you will have hope. Shalom!

When israel invaded lebanon in 1982 there was no hezbollah at all.it didnt exist.the arogance of the israeli mentality and their treatement of other human beings as inferior and not worthy of living a decent life have encouraged the oppressed citizens of the south of lebanon by israel 2 rebell and start their resistance. israelies should understand this well because they started their own resistance after what they say happenend 2 them at the hands of the germans in world war2. if israelies keep this BY FORCE mentality up they will creat new resistance like hizbollah in more neighbouring countries like syria,egypt,jordan etc...etc.. what will be the fate of israel and the whole middle east then ???????

On july 31rst I sent Haaretz an e-mail criticizing the reaction of Israel face to Hezbollah's ambush and the abduction of two soldiers. It was "automaticaly disclassified", and I understand because I used very hard terms. Nevertheless,I consider my criticism pertinent, quite different in form but not so different in content from Doron Rosenblum's "Not Sparta - and just as well". Who lost the war? I think Lebanon's and Israel"s people. Why such a destruction, so many deads, crippled and wounded? My "disclassified" e-mail's last words were "A peacefull Israel,representative of Jewish culture, as a center of progress for all middle-east region would certainly deserve the support and sympathy of most people. Not as a bastion of militarism, imperialism and corporativism". Who knows if Condolezza Rice was right when she said:"What we are seeing is the birth pangs of a new Middle East. This is a different Middle East. It's a new Middle East. It's hard. We are going through a very violent time".

If Israel can only treat those under its control as humans worthy of equal rights regardless of ones religion and ethnic background, this would be a great step forward. The present Israeli policy of imprisoning native peoples into segregated ghettos surrounded by barbed wire and concrete walls will not bring peace to Israel, Palestine, or the surrounding region. Its time the Israeli people demanded their government stop its racist policies that serve as an incubator for terrorism.

1. Hezbollah 2. Israel 3. Bush & Condi 4. Iran 5. 2&3 6. 1&4

A country cannot continue and go on lying to itself!. Israel cannot continue to deny that at the least it contributed to the Nakba. The erasure of 300+ Palestinian villages cannot erase them from the collective Palestinian memory. Israel cannot justify the occupation of one inch of land not hers. Israel cannot justify its refusal to sit down in earnest and negotiate with the duely elected representatives of the Palestinian people. Only by securing a peace treaty can Israel to live within secure boundaries. Israel is not Sparta nor is it Massada! I doubt it can be Athens because its monotheistic underpinnings preclude it from becoming one. If it can become first among equals in the neighborhood it will be an accomplishment.

Most notoriously Meir Rosennee, Dore Gold Yuval Steinitz and others have misleadingly argued that UN242 call for Israel to withdraw to secure borders when in fact 242 first and foremost insists on accepting the principle that no land can be acquired in an act of war.It calls for Israel to withdraw from territories acquired in the recent conflict and it recognizes the right of ALL states to live within secure boundaries implying the Palestinians deserve the same. When reading the texts of the deliberations prior to voting on the draft resolution it is clear that 2/3 of the members of the security council meant for Israel to withdraw from ALL territories!

may god blees doron rosenblum

Bill, I don't have a problem with people worshipping the Moon. In fact, if you go by the remez in the Torah, the character Rahel, represents the Moon, she being the daughter of Lavan, whose name literally is the Moon. Thus in Yosef's dream, his mother, Rahel, is the Moon, his father, Yaakov, the Sun. Worship of Sun and Moon is very Jewish.

Pastor Phil, Your post #138 suggests to me that you don't understand our culture. As a Jew, I couldn't care less whether or not the Moslems worship a real god or not. I couldn't less whether or not the Jewish god is real either because what matters is what you do, not what you believe. First of all, I just don't want them to kill us. Second, Jews, even religious ones, do not ask that non-Jews follow Jewish law. Third, your comments about the Bible come off as patronizing. Although it may be well-intended, sometimes Christians like yourself can make a bad situation worse.

124# "you are wrong.." Mark Lincoln Mr Lincoln knows of so many mistakes ! Mistakes are not mistake unless you give a different answer.. Answers are not 'judgements'. 'Judgements' are 'verdicts'. 'Verdicts' are unacceptable without 'briefing'. Justice can not be seen done otherwise. Akram Zekaria. P.S Mark Lincoln is a very intelligent man.

exactly correct just like in 1937, the entire free world is paralyzed by politics and fear - only after many more 9.11s will we nuke Iran, N Korea and perhaps Syria, round up all the Islamo nazis in Dearbornistan and send them to Guantonomo - only after 10 x the casualties of pearl harbor are experienced - because Bush and our leadership are weak and bending to the liberal loonies and criminal media outlets - the case is no different in israel i suspect

Israel is not a subject.Israel is an emotional subject.Unlike many posting from contributors to Talkback, discussing Israel like as a subject with problems (Mr Lincoln is one of them)the contributions of 19#Dino & 34# Margie both highlighted the emotional quality os Israel as a subject. "19#Dino-what a tragic ..of history (the jewish people ) have chosen exactly the most unsuitable place". 35#Margie "There would not have been a Jewish people if it had not been for this place" How it could have been otherwise ? The very existence of the Jews was made to one purpose. The return to their ancestral land. The fact that the perscution of Jews through out their history was not the reason and not even the main reason for them to fullfill the purprose of their existence of going back to Sion. The land of Sion was and remain their home for the entire over 2000 years they were away from it. All other countries in the Globe were only time spending in the Wilderness.

History is full of losers TonyL. One common feature of many is their unwillingness to question the results of their own actions. Arrested for drunk driving? Daddy can fix it. No need to stop drinking. Fail at one war? Start another. Nations have gone down the tubes following fools like Olmert and Bush. Anyone who responds repeatedly with inappropriate means to counter a misapprehended enemy, will eventually suffer the consequences. The US is rich and was powerful. Israel is neither except in the regional sense. Olmert screwed up totally in Lebanon. Israel neither won the battle or the war. Worse, it sent EXACTLY the opposite message to the enemy as intended. A few thousand men beat the IDF. Not that the IDF could not have - at great expense beat them - but rather the men who started the war decided the war wasn't worth the cost of winning. Well they should have thought of the cost of winning before they started the war.

Elias is writing the truth . The arab desert dwellers at the time of muhammed worshipped 365 gods , one for each day of the year . After muhammed received his vision he chose one god , the moon god for worship every day of the year . This moon god is the creation not the creator of the heavens and the earth , the G-D of the universe , the Holy One of Israel . YHWH and His WORD the BIBLE . The Koran and Hadith command the destruction of Israel and the rest of the world . The G-D of the universe commands the FULL RESTORATION OF THE CHIDREN OF ISRAEL AND THE LAND ISRAEL THEIR ETERNAL G-D GIVEN INHERITANCE. This command is sealed by G-D Himself with an everlasting unconditional Covenant . See B'Resheet ( Genesis ) Chapter 15 . We will see who is the truth - the creation ( the moon ) or the Creator of the universe . YHWH .

my dear, in response to your commment....The MORE islam hits the west and ISRAEL..the harder it will hit back!! if you want it to stop "give israel and the west your love"....think about.

...Among every four humans in the world, one of them is Muslim. Muslims have increased by over 235 percent in the last fifty years up to nearly 1.6 billion. By comparison, Christians have increased by only 47 percent, Hinduism, 117 percent, and Buddhism by 63 percent... My dear friend, It may be true but firstly you are forgetting the fact that outside of Israel and the Jews, they hate each other more than anything. Does Iran-Iraq war indicate anything to you? Secondly, despite certain security situations when it has to be detailed and known who is who, nobody is set to fight all Muslims. Israeli Arabs, with many openly desplaying anti-Israeli feelings, are not generally `fought` with. It is only radical Islam that is on the agenda. Coincidentally (even for many Muslims) what was originally proimoted as the Israeli tormenting tool, spread through Arab media and education, and brainwashed young generations into the `monster` that affects much and many it was not suppose to effect.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMEN BUDDY!

I find the Jews to be very nice people, good and with a sense of humor. Unlike the Muslims, I have never heard them a joke, an ironic statement or anything similar, and they are always whining about what the others owe to them and never finish paying. I love the Jews, really.

In the beginning of 2006 Syria made a deal with Russia. It comprised the installation of an air-defense system and the right for two naval settelements on the Mediterranean. I guess Syris doesn't like to have Damascus bombed in the same way as Beirout. First they will be sure that they can destroy the Israeli airforce within days and no US replenishment will bring relief. That being done, the take Of Golan is a piece of cake. Israel resistance will be broken with a small number of missiles on TA.

DO YOU MEAN THE (13th tribe) ??????

John don't pick and choose history. Between 1937 and now Israel did so many things that earned it the hatreate of its neighbors. They don't hate because of what you are, they hate you because you stole their land. Even David Ben Gorion said that and I quote " We have come and stolen their country. Why should they accept us?" Stop insulting our intelligence with such empty comparisons and if you have anty respects for the victims of the Holocaust you should not use them in such a cheap way.

If Israel wasn't created as a spearhead against Islam it has eagerly assumed that role. More precisely, it has been a spear in the side of the Arab world from the time independence was declared. That wound will continue to fester until real efforts are made to heal it, including debriding the edges until it takes a shape similar to that proposed by the UN in 1947. The subsequent changes to the map have been gained by violence, maintained by violence, are the cause of ongoing violence and, unless a peaceful negotiation happens, will eventually be regained by violence. Having achieved this, do you think your enemies will stop there? Israel has much work to do. It needs brave soldiers but needs brave thinkers even more.

What can they think when the pals want to destroy Israel and kill the Jews? You quote a verse but there are many verses which call for the killing of Christians and Jews. These verses were written afterwards and so they are valid. Besides the clerics and the other jihadists are calling for the killing of people based on the Qu'ram. I am glad to see you are not one of those. But I also tell you that I have not seen any massive demo (I have seen none, massive or small, to tell the truth) protesting that what the jihadists say is not the true Islam. You say there are rabbis who also preach hate. However, I dont know of any Jew who has blown himself up on a bus or who has beheaded infidels. I dont know either that the Jews are on holy war to submit all the other people to judaism or kill them if they dont submit.

if it keeps messing around. You wont expect the other people negotiate how to be killed, will you?

It is questionable if there is such thing as a Palestinian because before 1964 such a thing did not exist. During the British Mandate for Palestine, both Jews and Arabs were British subjects, carried British passports, and had British Protected Person status outside Mandate Palestine. The British recognized 'Jewish' and 'Arab' as distinct nationalities, not 'Palestinian'. Indeed, a slogan of Gandhi was 'Palestine for the Arabs'. Transjordan was part of the mandate from 1920, but after 1922 was closed to Jewish settlement and placed under Hashemite autonomy, which was charged with administering Transjordan from Amman on behalf of the Palestine High Commissioner in Jerusalem. In 1948, The Jews and Arabs inside the borders of Israel became Israeli citizens, while the Arabs of West Bank became citizens of Transjordan, which therefore changed its name to Jordan because it now included both East and West Bank.

You always sound as if you are enforcing your image that Bush & Olmert believe they are on white horse entering Iraq, Afghanistan & Lebanon respectively. All they do is while using the word victory, understand the agendas they set to accomplish & what was accomplished up to date. It does not mean there are huge blunders along the way or `twisting around & misquoting` to say the least. At the end of the day only the people of those respective countries will have to sincerely want to & act accordingly to `win those wars`. With Lebanon the war is a non starter at all had the Lebanese disarmed Hezbollah (why this simple but most important prerequisite has no room in many discussions & arguments). But certain element in the millions blindly staring & at best pretending & fantasizing about radical Islam, when it is so blatantly in the open and strait forward with what they say is coming & do, is very puzzling to me. Add blunders & Arab world propaganda to `blank stares` & watch it slowly gro

EVERYONE SEEMS TO KNOW THE KORAN MORE THAN MOSLEMS THEMSELVES.AM CURIOUS TO KNOW FROM WHICH PUBLISHER DOES THE ONE YOU READ COMES FROM. ALSO STRANGE HOW JEWS ARE BLAMING THEMSELVES THROUGH MOSLEMS,JUDAISM IS HIDING MORE HATRED,HOSTILITY,HUMILIATION,RACISM THAN ANY OTHER RELIGION & BROUGHT JEWS TO MASOCHISM,SCHISOPHRENY,PATHETIC.

This reality of the the God of the Jews and the god of the Muslims is not a matter of rhetoric. The history of Islam, thru Mohammed, is one of the rejection of both Judaism & Christianity. Mohammed's god is one of Arabic origin. The God of the Old Testament always existed. As a matter of fact, it was He who rejected the descendants of Ishmael and those of Esau. You will not find the Law or Prophets accepted or used by Muslims, and their concept of Jesus as a only prophet shows complete misunderstanding & rejection of what the N.T. states so clearly. There ARE the two gods--that's why you find two books. However, only one leads to Truth and understanding, because only one of them has come to us the the Spirit of God. You need to READ the Bible!!

In 1937 the world appeased a very visable extremist movement in Germany. The world watched as nazi Germany began its death march across Europe.It was appeasment that empowered them to expand there dream of domination and controll, alog with the final solution to the Jewish population in Europe. Sound Familiar? Replace Nazi with "Jihadi" or Hezbollah, replace Germany with Iran, and Europe with the Mid East. Who needs a time machine,welcome to 1937. I am only 23 years old. why cant the schollars and leaders of the world realize this. Again history will say to the free people of the world..." shame on you! you let the enemy choose when,where,and how to fight you. You waited untill you had no choice but to fight back,and many many people died."

Their Arab neighbors have left them no other way.

Israelis speak of peace but in their hearts truly believe that we are evil. Maybe it is all the propoganda that you have been fed. I am from Gaza, so you probably think I am lying in order to hurt you as well...so let me quote from the Quran directly... Verse 2:62 VERILY, those who have attained to faith [in this divine writ], as well as those who follow the Jewish faith, and the Christians, and the Sabians [49] -all who believe in God and the Last Day and do righteous deeds-shall have their reward with their Sustainer; and no fear need they have, and neither shall they grieve. [50] I admit there are many muslim clerics that preach hate but there are many rabbis that do the same...find out for yourselves thru research and stop buying into the propoganda.. Shalom Aleikhem/ Salam Alaikum

Among every four humans in the world, one of them is Muslim. Muslims have increased by over 235 percent in the last fifty years up to nearly 1.6 billion. By comparison, Christians have increased by only 47 percent, Hinduism, 117 percent, and Buddhism by 63 percent. Islam is the second largest religious group in France, Great Britain and USA (Muslims in USA are 10 millions and Jews are 6 millions). :) if u think u can beat this..u are mistaken.one good advice : negociate :)

In the eyes of the Muslim fanatics it has become the bridgehead of Western Civilization in the Middle East. Just as the Crusader States were looked at nine centuries ago. At that time the Catholic Church had to liberate Jerusalem, where Jesus, a jew, died on the Crucifix. From the Arab's point of view the only difference now is that the new "Invader" considers itself the Jewish State whereas in the 11th Century a.D. the Cruzaders considered themselves the Christian State.

Lets face it, there have never been a palestianian nation, never, not before 1948 either, lets face it, the palestians are arabs, the arabs have LOTS of land and lots of money(oil), they could easily " adopt" the palestinian refugee in their countries, like 2 million in saudi arabis and the rest in other arab countries, then the palestian refugee problem are solved and they can live decent lifes.

What on earth are you talking about: "Muslims and Jews have a different God". Jesus called God "Allah" -- hence, the word "hALLAluja" (meaning "Glory to God"). "Allah" in both Jesus' language and Mohammed's language means "God". Why not do a bit of research before you make such sweeping and incorrect statements?

Very good article, I guess you need some kind of comfort...but put your "vitality, culture and creativity" on someone elses land, otherwise history will not judge you by your creativity but by the inhuman way you supported the state of Israel in Palestine.

To begin with,it's questionable wether there is any "Palestinian" nation.But let's admit there is one.The "land of the Palestinians" was under Egyptian and Jordanian control from 1948 to 1967;why didn't the Palestinians claim this land from them? And if the Palestinians say that they want the destruction of Israel,why isn't it right for Israel to block their economy so as to prevent it from buying weapons to achieve this target? As for the "imprisonment in their homes of more than a million of people",I've never seen such a thing.The Palestinians even have their own police in their territories.... And besides,all the "elctrical plants, water pumping facilities, agricultural lands, roads" that the Palestinians have were constructed and created by Israel;what infrastructure have the Palestinians created by themselves?

In the laissez-faire of Lebanon, a free play of gone four weeks, Israel repeatedly bombarded and destroyed any thing and every thing that she could think off. But barraging of flaunt full Israeli might and its deterrence went peak to bust in the face of miraculous Hezbollah?s resilience. With no victory at hand,---- to suck all this off and reclaim the lost deterrence, Israel along with her US masters will not let this war fog settle. They are bound to extend this to a second phase. To turn the clock back, they can go to any extent to commit further atrocities in Middle East. In this case Iran is a ready target. Without any hesitation and soon after, the all planed UNO sanctions on her nuclear issue go through; come September; and American daisy cutter and smart bombs will start raining down in Iran. Sorry Iran, you seem to be in our way;

Elias writes: "The GOD of the Jews is the ALMIGTHY GOD JEHOVA...Allah is the name that Muhammand gave to the god of the religion that he invented..." Actually, Allah is simply the Arabic pronounciation for the god, El, or El Elyon. While it is true that historically El and YHWH (Jehova, Yahweh) were names used for different gods, BOTH of these gods were served by ancient Israelites, which makes your comments somewhat misleading.

"A US attack on Iran is now totally off the agenda" - Clickfool You are wrong, the Bushiz have been reinvigorated and are hot to attack Iran. A few months ago, they were dissuaded by the defense professionals, but this war has their blood lust up and they are profoundly concerned that if they don't get moving, the will never get the chance again. The Bushiz are convinced that a few days of shock and awe will cause the overthrow of the Iranian regime. Remember, these people are convinced we are winning in Iraq, Afghanistan and Israel won in Lebanon.

Worth trying, but I don't see warmth and love in the eyes of Hezbollah and Syrian Hamas.

"(Israel) was not established in order to be a spearhead against global Islam, or in order to serve as an alert squad for the Western world." Quite subtly, Rosenblum attempts to change our perception. Formerly, many of us saw,(and still see,) Israel shaping the foreign policy of western nations, particularly the U.S., to help Israelis protect themselves from the threat posed by Islamic nations, and to eventually gain hegemony over them. Now we are being asked to believe that it's the other way around. Rosenblum wants us to see Israel as the reluctant "Sparta," protecting and shielding the West from "global Islam."

...The Lebanese are certainly angry that Syria didn`t make use of Lebanon War II to do so. The fact that Syria didn`t says a great deal... I am sure there are many `amateurs` that felt disapointed with Syria. I may be mistaken but this is what it specifically told me: Assad Jr. is certainly not his father and maybe Iraq did have some affect or whatever, but at this stage he practically `can not tie his shoelaces` without Iranian say so. I am sure Syrian intrusion was contemplated, but the original plan was to implement stage one first-`soften` Israel with proxies, and stage two to have Syria engage Israel under Golan pretext and have Iran to come to her `defense`. I believe Iran is not fully ready, and the stage one is not completed. It is what Israel and the rest of the free world are prepared to do about it I am not so sure about, given that it is always `foregone conclusion` Israel is on the forefront of this `battle`, and reitorated over & over with all the Arab propaganda.

Fact# 1- old history Israel is and has always been the Jewsish homeland. Long before Islam came about. Fact# 2- modern history Arabs have killed Jewish residents in Israel/Palestine every chance they had. Fact# 3- more modern history The Middle East has been carved up many times. Only when Israel was RE-established this time was the carving process not accepted by the Moslem/Arab countries. Their non- neighbourly reaction- to attack in 1947 has brought us to this point. Since then they the Moslems have been the agressors. Where is their Islamic - love ?????for thy neighbour.

Again and again. Israel has stole no pals? land because an Arab pal state has never existed in history. The true Palestinians are the Jews, because ?Palestina? is the name the Romans gave to the Jews? country. You build your claim on a fallacy, which gives away there is no reason for that claim. As for your picture of the pals living conditions, you know full well this is not true but just propaganda. And you also know that the pals spread that propaganda in order to rob the Jews of their land.

But definitely being used as one for the US NeoCons. The IAF workover of Lebanon is probably a shakedown drill for the same thing to be attempted over Iran. What a transformation - from Kibbutzniks to a garrison society.

Let?s not forget that it has been always the Arabs who attack first. You say the only solution is dialogue. How can you dialogue with those who want to kill you no matter what you do? Being a Lebanese, you should know that Hizbollah?s goals are the destruction of Israel, the killing of Jews everywhere, to spread the Iranian revolution all around the ME and then in Europe.

Don't gloat over what you have that you have also denied to others through violence and terror. Israel has taken not only the land from the Palenstinian people; it has also taken away all material things that make life comfortable and agreeable. Enforced economic blockades, the imprisonment in their homes of more than a million of people in the West Bank and Gaza Strip; the targeted destruction of the means of subsistence--elctrical plants, water pumping facilities, agricultural lands, roads, mass killings, etc. When you deny the material and cultural necessities of life to an entire people, is it any wonder that they begin to value most highly what they know you can't take away from them--their sense of dignity and their willingness to resist your oppression at any cost to themselves?

Realistic is right. During the 1948 war Transjordan annexed 80% of what should have been the other Arab state (in Cisjordan).

Your response is logical, however, who is there to make peace with for Israel. Look at the responses in this forum! For somebody living in the West, it is hard to comprehend intense and monolithic hatred like the one the Arabs and Iran have for Israel. Israel could definitely provide many benefits for its neighbors if they would stop trying to destroy it. Unfortunately, the Arab people want peace less than their dictatorial leaders. I guarantee you that.

I agree that Israel and the Arab nations should be at peace and work together for a peaceful middle east. The problem is the amount of extremist there are amongst the arab population and the fear of everyone to rid of these terrorists that give every muslim and arab a bad name. I'm a jewish woman with nothing against arabs and muslims. I feel bad for those who have to live with the stigmas placed against them because of these terrorists. I am against those who want to rid the world of all Jews and all nations that are not muslim.

How can we respect our neighbours when they are killing and kidnapping our soldiers? That is why this unfortunate war started. When our neighbours hate us for our religios beliefs and way of life?

By ?state terrorism? you mean Hizbollah, the PA and the other pal factions, dont you?

The Lebanese government should have protected the Lebanese people, in the first place by disarming Hizbollah so the terrorist organization would not have been able to attack Israel.

Have you ever read the Bible or history for that matter? The Israel is and will always be the homeland of the Jewish People. We have been here for the last 5766 years and we will be there till the end of time. Many ancient people have come an gone but we are still here. Still worshiping the same G-D and traditions of our ancestors while our Arabs neighbors are still sacrificing their children to Baal and worshiping the Book of the dead!

You are one hundred per cent correct. The proper evaluation of the enemy and the threat it poses must come before all else. It is not possible to make peace with countries that want to destroy you and whose paradigm is hatred of the Jew.

As far as the jihadists are concerned, Israel is a proxy of the West. This is the reason why they are always attacking it. Israel has to defend itself but, by doing so, it is also defending the West. As a contributor above says, Europe comes after Israel in the jihadists? agenda.

It is more likely for Hizbollah to start a new war against Israel, since the terrorist organization goal is to destroy Israel and murder all the Jews. Nasrallah said that they are committed to killing the Jews wherever they happen to be. 5. indrajaya: TO BRING ISLAM INTO MODERATION ?IF YOU WANT TO BRING ISLAM INTO MODERATION, GIVE MUSLIMS YOUR LOVES AND COMPASSIONS. You`ll be surprised!? Then why did the jihadists murdered about 3,000 people in the US? Were all those people at the World Trade Center Muslim haters? What about the people murdered in Europe? As for the Jews, here you have http://www.phyllis-chesler.com/db_video.html

Israel doesnt have the homegrown problem England does with Muslims and Arabs. YOu better be careful before Londonistan starts taking orders from Pakistan or Saudi Arabia. Israel was there before the Arabs and will be there long after they are gone. World can live in peace with Israel, but not with Islamofacists. Will you be a dhimmi or a free man?

And leave the territories, back to 1967 borders, let's have a peacefull Israel. Am Israel Hai!

What history books are you reading? What maps are you looking at? For several centuries, both sides of the Jordan, and parts of Syria and Lebanon, depending on the maps you use were part of "historic Palestine". The ONLY time the land west of the Jordan was called Palestine alone, was 1922 through 47, thats it As for the Hashemites, they are from Arabia and were put into power in Jordan Palestine over the majority Arabs there and kicked out the native Jews there. I'd love to know what history books you are reading. Please tell me so I can check your resources.

The Word of GOD (JEHOVA)is over all men's opinions. HE (GOD) gave the land of CANAAN to one man (ABRAM) to whom HE (GOD)changed the name for the name of ABRAHAM: "Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country..." (Abraham lived at that time in which is now Kuwait). "...unto the land I will shew thee: And I will make of thee a great nation..." (ISRAEL). "...and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing..." "...And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee..." (IF FOR THAT ALL PEOPLE THAT SPEAK BAD AGAINST ISRAEL WILL BE CURSED BY GOD). "...and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed" (THROUGH THE MESSIAH, EVEN THE ARABS PEOPLES WILL BE BLESSED) "And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land..." (THE SEED OF ABRAHAM IS ISRAEL, NOT ISMAHEL)

Islam is as diverse as Christianity. So the concept of "global islam" is equally naive. For example, Saudi Arabia has poor relations with Iran, Afghanistan is bickering with Pakistan and has good relations with Pakistan's rival India. Hezbollah is a direct result of Israeli policy formed by Lebanese Shia to protect them. It is allied with Syria, a secular Baathist regime founded by a Christian. Let's please stay away from worldwide "conspiracies" Jewish or Islamic and try to solve real problems. There are enough of those.

It is more likely for Hizbollah to start a new war against Israel, since the terrorist organization goal is to destroy Israel and murder all the Jews. Nasrallah said that they are committed to killing the Jews wherever they happen to be.

If by ?occupied territories? you mean Gaza and Judea and Samaria, why did the Arabs declare war on Israel in 1948 and 1967? There was no ?occupation? at that time. You said: ?Besides making it hard if not impossible for Jews to live in Israel and keep a clear conscience at the same time, Israeli actions and words make it harder and harder for Jews outside of Israel as well.? What a funny manner of seeing things. If life is hard for Jews in and outside Israel, the cause is others? bigotry. If jihadists are always attacking Israel and trying to destroy it, the blame is on the jihadists. If life becomes harder for the Jews outside Israel, the blame is on those who attack the Jews as well. From what you say, it is right for Hizbollah, Iran and the pal terrorists to attack Israel, and it is right for the Muslim who murdered a Jewish woman in Seattle to do it. Following your logic, the Muslims in the US and Europe should be attacked, harassed and murdered because Muslims are murdering people in the US and in Europe.

Yes, it is "unlike some of its enemies", and yes "Israel has a far more means of existential solace - in vitality, culture and in creativity - than the planting of a flag of victory among the ruins". But, if the Israeli gov. decided to plant the flag but stipulated that it will not be planted among ruins, then I wonder if the exercise was worth the effort. Particularly in lives lost. And one day in the future the half-baked decisions and reluctance to follow through will make ruins of "vitality, culture and in creativity" with someone's else flag planted on them.

"We shall proudly bear our weaknesses as fragile, vulnerable human beings. Israel is not Sparta, and this is a good thing." does this paid writer also work as an agony aunt for a womens' magazine? what utter crap. spartan mentality, imagine, focused, cool, simple. as you will... rosenblum is a cock crowing on the dunghill of his own sophistry.

Sorry, but I don t understand what are you writing about. As far as I know, muslims and arabs are killing the innocent people all over the world: Remember. China, Kashmir,Afganistan, Pakistan,Iraq, Russia. Indonesia. Thailand, Spain, England,Israel. Sudan / more then 2 mil. dead/.Nigeria, Algeria, etc. Don t you know about it?

Shame on you. Is this what Christianity teaches you to do , to ridicule one of the greatest, if not the greatest, human being to have ever walked on this earth.

you wrote: "your people don`t deserve to live in peace and Israel should disapear from the map." you are promoting genocide. and you talk about a bunch of killers! this is a good way to encourage peace...

Certainly!! The GOD of the Jews is the ALMIGTHY GOD JEHOVA. THE CREATOR OF ALL THAT EXISTS. Allah is the name that Muhammand gave to the god of the religion that he invented 600 YEARS AFTER JESUS CHRIST. At that time the BIBLE (OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT) WAS ALREADY WRITTEN. What do you think about that?

I see some comments here that Israel needs to "embrace" its arab neighbours and start to love Islam in order to be safe with hundreds of millions of arabs around them. Sorry, but I cant understand that, to me Islam seems to be a religion of hatred and violence towards anything and anyone that are not-islamic. you see that all over the world, wherever there is war and bloodshed islam is involved.unfortunatly. I think this comes from the moslims see that the western world are so much more developed in every ways, that the moslems feel bad about this and they cannot accept it. what have the arabs been without oil?...and they even need western technological help to be able to use their oilriches.

The time is near when GOD will make JERUSALEM "a burdensome stone for all people..." (Zech. 12:3). When this time arrive: "all that burden themselves with it shall be cuts in pieces" (Zech.12:3). "though all the peuple of the earth be gathered together against it" (Zech.12:3). What GOD says: "And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all nations that come against Jerusalem" (Zech.12:9)

So I read IAF is engaging in overflights over the Bekka Valley (and maybe bombing). Israel looks stupider and stupider.

eckedin, your answers are all concise and true, so simple to understand, yet there are those who are not indigenous to Palestine who insist on telling you, the Palestinian natives, who they are or are not, where they came from, where they belong. And so many naive, uninformed, delusional persons take the absolute lies and nonsense as the gospel truth. You, a nineteen-year old law student, are the future of Palestine. The others can keep forcing the stereotype of the masked, fanatical, suicidal, weapon-wielding terrorist upon the world, but you are the true hope of your beleagured land.

Israel now faces the certainty that all its scheming and lying to get its catspaw, the USA, to whack Iran on its behalf has been in vain. The Pentagon planners must be shuddering at the mauling that the IDF received at the hands of Iranian-supplied Hezbollah. Perhaps the one good thing to have come from all this slaughter and mayhem, in the Lebanon and in Iraq, is the puncturing of Israeli and American arrogance. Both have been shown to be paper tigers.

Better check out your history, Doron. Israel was called to be a light unto the Gentiles. The nations covered would include Islam. Where is your Light???

The one and only justification for Israel to exist, has to be God's promise to Abraham. No people have such a complete written historical record as the people of Israel. That Holy record reveals again and again, that when they cry to God, He fights for them. When they desert Him, He chastises them using an enemy,whom He would later punish. Please return to God and He will return to you.

Israel has to rethink all of its tactics and politics in order to be able to counter these efforts to destroy it.Part of it may be negotiations with certain interested countries but part of it must be better self defense and redesigned military plans specifically designed to counter today's threats.And believe me this will be plan B. It's obvious that like the US effort it's going to peter out soon because as I said the American people don't have the stomach for doing what needs to be done to defeat them. Now Israel is suffering the same from its people. Most would rather be attacked than do anything that affects our freedoms. The worst part is that the terrorists know this and it's their most powerful weapon against us.

Israel will have to realize that the US money will not always be there for them to call up at will. Only a true peace and embracing its Arab neighbours (not the regimes the people) will bring it peace. The removal of the colonies in the West Bank and a positive approach with the PA. Israel can protect itself much better by aiding its Arab neighbours instead of fighting bloody war after bloody war. Cause remember when the US finally becomes unwilling to provide the billions in military hardware, Israel a population of 5 million will face off against an Arab population of 300 million. Only by working with the Arabs, not their ridiculous totalitarian regimes, but the democracies can Israel ensure its survival. Israel's best ally is the Arab masses, many of them dont like their regimes. But with a spectre of the 'evil' Israel over their heads they are unwilling to do anything.

If it doesn't change its policies towards the Palestinians and its neighbours, Israel looks more like a boil that will be lanced by global Islam.

I really can't compare them but today's Egypt and Jordan are not radical Islamists. Neither is Syria but they seem to have thrown their lot in with Iran that is the hornets nest of radical Islam.What worries me and most other Israelis at the moment is Iran because they have that crazy Ahmadinejad who keeps threatening to "wipe Israel off the map".You can't hear that as a Jew and do nothing for reasons you already know-let's not go there. I know that Israel is more threatenend today then at any time in my lifetime because the enemy is much better armed and more motivated and Israel has lost its infallable reputation and it's deterrence is now blown to hell by this adventure in Lebanon.Let's face it,Israel's enemies have succeeded in eroding Israel's standing in the world by eating away at it through the UN,through manipulating world media,and by using tactics such as human shields and civilian buildings for their attacks and weapons stores.No one cares that they only target civilians..

Nr 1, Realist, Jordan has never been, is not, and will never be a part of Palestine. They don't share the same culture, or heritage, or even history. Jordan is the hashemite kingdom. Their origins are hashemitie, not Canaanite, as the Palestinians. Nr 2, Justine, yes, I live in Sweden and have done so my entire life, and my life is very good, thank God for that. I can enjoy freedom of speech, freedom of opinion, and freedom overall. Something which the people of my origins can not. And I will not rest, nor stop, even for a second, until the day where the people of Palestine enjoy the same amount of freedom in Palestine, as I do in Sweden. Nr 3, Jane, Israel will never become a normal country, or remotly assimilated to any normal countries, as long as it is an occupational force. Israel is occupying another people, illegaly, and inhumanly. No matter what illusions it brings to itself, it simply will not be normal. Keep that in mind. Yours, 19 year old law student from Sweden.

Nope, Israel was created as a force of instability in an area holding the worlds most precious commodity. That is why it keeps getting nurtured and looked after by the worlds greatest oil consumer. Once that Oil runs out, so will Israels` time. The current generation of Israelis born there do not choose this upon themselves, but it is the truth of the matter, equitable peace is the only way out.

Looks like they are the only alternatives. Israel, backed by U.S, can all the time inflict mass destruction on civillian areas. Israel can even, if not already has, own nukes. Israel fights for existence, Arabs so do. When things will get all mad, there shall be many sources from which Arabs will manage get ready-made nukes. Then, destruction will be for all..Everybody will suffer..Everybody will be tormented..Israeli people, what, to you, Seems rather logical? Live among your door-to-door neighbors and have your good relationships with them be the only safeguard of Israel's Security? Or count forever on a remote ally such as the U.S bearing in mind the dramatic changes in political priorities that govern ties between nations? whatever your alternatives is, you know what you should do.

Quite the contrary. Of all the major religions, Islam is the most all-encompassing. It is as acceptive of the G-D of the Jews as Christianity is. And, unlike the Jews, reveres Jesus as a prophet. If there is one religion that the Jews should not only tolerate but accept as friend, it is Islam. Is it possible this intolerance is fostered by the Christian religious fundamentalists, who not only envision the "Rapture" as coming in their lifetimes but also are willing to help it on its way? You do know, of course, that when the Rapture comes, according to them, less than 150,000 Jews will be saved (literally)?

Obviously I agree with most of your views. However, a Syrian attack on the Golan Heights would be to regain their own territory, just as, I would say, the Egyptians and Syrians attacked in 1973 to regain territory. In neither case was/is Israel's existence at risk.

You mean it was part of the Ottoman or Turkish Empire - an enclave is a country or part of a country lying wholly within the boundaries of another. Palestine was populated by Christians and Muslims, the majority, and a few Jews. It seems an odd place to go to avoid Christian and Muslim persecution. But of course their intention was to take it over and rule over the indigenous population.

While I do give you ample credit for the "democracy" shown by your site, where you really find all sorts of opinion, I am perplexed for the failure to see posted some of my comments, where I'm left wondering the mysterious reason cause of censure. Ciao, Mario Fiorito

criminals that is what we call the Israel governement and followers. All they want to do is war and they think they are the good ones. You attack on others territories and you take their lands and then you say we are defending ourselves? How come your citizens are so cruel and unhumain. If you want me to respect a zionist, you should respect other nations freedom and sovernity. But you are not, and that's why your people don't deserve to live in peace and Israel should disapear from the map. When your people begin to open their minds a bit and respect other nations, well than you deserve to have a country and live in peace with others. Israelis, you should begin to make peace and fight against your governement to make peace with your neighbours.

I sent you 2 parts posting in resoonse to Rosenblums superb op-ed. Where is it???

This is pure mythology - that Islam and the Jews are in some sort of eternal battle or competition with each other. It's true that many groups in Arabia fellt threaten by Muhammad and the early Muslims, but it is obvious that when the Quraan speaks of Jews, Christians and polytheists you have to put it in the right historical context. The battle with the local Jews etc., the Old Testament and the stories of disobedience and obedience of the Israelites (the interaction between the human kind and the Almighty). The off-spring of pegs and dogs (connects to the story of the golden calf after the exodus) is spiritual and exists among Jews, Chistians and Muslims alike, in other words hypocrites. If not it would mean that Solomon/Suleiman and the latter Israelite and Jewish prophets where all the off-spring of pegs and dogs. Indeed that would be a corrupt way to read the Quraan.

#43:Lebanese in Canada writes: "Israel was established to serve the colonial West`s oil interests." Israel was established to become a home for Jewish People. Jews deserve their own home, and ancient Israel really was a State at time when Arabs didn't exist as a nation.

You are right, Israel was born in desperate circumstances, and has lived with fear for almost 60 years. The last war where Israel's existence was at stake was the Yom Kippur War. It did not settle everything, but eventually it led to peace with Egypt, and correct if not cordial relations since. Israel also has similar relations with Jordan. The last Israel-Jordanian war was the Six Day War. Perhaps - and I am not suggesting disarmament or dropping the guard - war is not the answer to they type of security problems Israel has now? Right now the only nation which poses an immediate threat is Syria. The Syrian army could attack the Golan and perhaps win it. The Lebanese are certainly angry that Syria didn't make use of Lebanon War II to do so. The fact that Syria didn't says a great deal. Time to deal.

It is well know that past glories do usually result in present ones. Many nations dwell on their past victories and lose out in the present. Past performances are not indicative of futuret ones since things change over time. With regards to the past airforce strength, it can be seen that unmanned missiles and rockets are today's new military air strength. Thus, Israel must change and adapt to this new reality. Also, Israel exists only for the sake of Judaism and not for secularism, materialism, capitalism, socialism, communism, militarism, sectarianism, nationalism, racism, egoism, etc.

9. Oh! Muslims (submissives), give up JIHAD... snif...snif...because the "martyrs" of JIHAD are not in Paradise "surrounded by virgins of chaste look, that before them nobody deflower them", as I make it believe you; it is the opposite way; "martyrs" are here, in the suffering ot the hell with me.

8. Oh! Muslims (submissives)...snif...snif... follows the peace with JEWS (the chosen people) ...snif...snif... IS TO THEM THAT JEHOVA (THE REAL GOD)HAS GIVEN THE LAND OF CANAAN. Get out from their land, or live you among them in peace...

I think you need to read up on your Jewish history if you want to telk about the Jews not being persecuted anymore. The Holocaust was horrible, but it was also only one of the many attempts over time to wipe out the Jewish people. You also have to keep in mind that the Holocaust ended only a little more than 60 years ago. Don't tell me that something like that can happen, and then 60 years later everything is fine. Anti-semitism is still rampant, and it is there for the sole reason that many people hate Jews for being Jewish. The Islamic radical terrorist organizations that are trying to destroy israel are not just after the country, they want to kill all of the Jews as well, so don't tell me that there is no persecution against the Jews, because there is always someone trying to destroy them for no reason.

All the symptoms of a self destructive self obsessed teenager : - obsession with newfound physical strength (until someone lands a punch on you) - desire to be independant of Mummy and Daddy (as long as they keep paying the bills) - lack of respect for the rules ("look what I can get away with") - extreme defensiveness when above antisocial beahviour is questioned It's exacerbated when the parent refuses to read the signs and continues subsidising the disease. But don't worry one day the teenager grows up. Or gets arrested. Or overdoses.

the Jews are not stupid, the eqivelant of thier powerfull lobby in Washington has opened a chapter in Brussels, where they believe the power will be after the collapse of the American empire, they call themselves the Trans Atlantic Institute..very soon they will FORCE you to eat Kosher meal my friend!! Or like in Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York and other States, the Rabbis extract what is LEGALLY called Kosher Tax on 90% of consumer products even children Pampers!!!! If you don't believe me INVESTIGATE.

You wrote: "Hezbullah was wrong to do what it did, not that it didn`t have cause, you know what Israel has been doing, but because we should be thinking of how to maintain peace" No, you're wrong, Marie. It didn't have cause. Israel withdrew fully from Lebanon in 2000, as certified by the UN. All Hezbollah's "resistance" attacks on Israeli sovereign territory after that date are offensive military actions against another state. Lebanese claims to Syrian territory held by Israel (Shebaa Farms) or the three--count 'em, three--prisoners who were held by Israel (for good reason) could easily, easily have been resolved thru negotiation. Hezbollah doesn't think about "maintaining peace" Marie, because that's not what they're about. Take a look at their flag, which are ubiquitous in southern Lebanon and you will see the word Allah hoisting up a Kalashnikov machine gun. This sums up what they stand for and what their "cause" is.

Israel was there first. Jews are the native population. Arabs have 99+% of the land and created almost 1 million Jewish refugees. Jews are home and more are coming home. What I want to know is why all of these made up Arab states exist? Jordan is Arab Palestine. Rename it and give the rest of the arab citizens in Judea and samaria Jordan Palestine citizenship. Why is it still ruled by a minority Hashemites? Syria is also ruled by a Minority? Why is Iraq one country when it should be 3? I know it would creat problems with Turkey, but it should be 3. Why cant the world fix the problems it created from making up all these arab countries that dont belong? Israel belongs, was there first and will be there long after arab states go away. Fix the real problem.

This is a regional semi low intesity conflict, not a battle against islam. Different wars and differnt terrain require different measures. Michael Oren on the 6th day war, cautioned that the IDF had lost its edge because of the demorializaation of the day by day conflicts in the west bank and gaza. The miliatry acted more like a police force under limited rules of engagement. To a point Lebanon II as to use of ground forces demonstrated that. Think in terms of low intensity conflict and air power- Use reciprocal and small team-missle tactics on the ground in the south.

The clear reality is that Israel has a virtual border with Iran, and both the Palestinians ad the Iranians want to destroy Israel. However, Doron , as always, avoids the obvious, and constructs a phony straw-man scenario to deconstruct. Earth to Doron : Israeli self-delusion MUST END NOW, or Israel will not survive.

War can lead to peace...sometime you have to go 3 steps backwards to go 5 steps forward. Example Japan and germany WWII. War is a last resort but when it occurs it humbles those involved, and the loser has become humbled to such a point that Peace becomes much desired to the effects and situations that is war. Aristotle wrote"we make war so that we may live in Peace." But i'm sure you're wiser then Aristotle

You wrote "No amount of assimilation by jews will save them from a world that hates them for centuries" The Jews were never persecuted because they were Jews, except at Hitlers hand( although I suspect the exaggerated number)Jews were persecuted against through out the centuriws because of their own siege menatlity, they have alligned themselves with the powerful( to get protection)exactly as they are doing now with thier alliance with the USA( and this is SLOWLY begining to shift to Europe, u have a chapter of AIPAC washington Jewish lobby already in Brussels for the last 6 years!!). This alliance with the powerfull regimes(kingdoms of the past)for protection worked against them.How? Because when these kingdoms were overtaken by other faction, the new faction wanted blood..but the ruling class escaped and nothing was there but the Jews to take thier revenge against them. a good book" Jewish History" by Israel Shahak, a holocaust survivor and Professor at Hebrew Universi PROVES this.

What a brilliant statement. I'm sure the early Zionists in the 1880's had oil on their minds when they sought a homeland in the Turkish enclave known as Palestine where Jews would not be persecuted as they were by most Christian and Muslim in the world for over 2000 tears.

Most Jews in Israel today have come from somewhere mostly Western countries, it would be very REALISTIC and EASY for this TRIBE to assimilate in these wonderful,what is the word that George uses? oh,DEMOCRACIES!! I mean, look, the whole Arab World( what you "democracies" call the Middle East)has been in wars for the last century because some British anti-semite jerk (Balfour)in London, started believing in what an Austrian NUT journalist(Hertzel) said 20 years earlier, that the Jews need a home and he offered Palestine.one party that offers something taht doesn't belong to him to a third party who doesn't deserve it!! All of a sudden, a religion that was kept alive for thousands of years becomes nationalistic by a bunch, NOT JEWS, but aethiests Marxist communists!!! and YOU talk down the Iranians...what is the frigin difference between your stupidity and thiers? I say, pack and assimilate in TEXAS

Israel was established on stolen Palestinian land. There will be no peace until this basic injustice is resolved. If you have stolen your neighbors' homes, what then could be just restitution? It begins with returning ALL of the stolen property. Zionists, both those in so-called Israel and those who support them world-wide, must begin to think about this fundamental problem. Your latest military loss in Lebanon should indicate to you that a military option is no longer viable. It's time to start packing, before you are considered totally unacceptable as immigrants to other nations.

You think that "victory" = "peace". So you will never have peace with your neighbours because they will never accept that "defeat" = "peace".

I wish you guys would read your Bibles. No matter where Jews lived Islam would have to hunt them down either to destroy them or subjugate them. Why, because they are God's people and Islam cannot subscribe to that if it is to be believed by its followers. That applies to the wider world as well for until the Messiah comes to restore all things under God Israel remains the carriers of God's oracles and include children of the promise as well. Islam stems from Hagar and Ishmael the ones denied these things and that is why Israel must be beaten and even if that was the case Islam would still have Almighty Jehovah to deal with. It is claimed that Jehovah and Allah are the same God but believe the Scriptures, they are not. So cut out the smart-alex comments and learn something beyond what you think you know.

Proprtionate responses don't win wars, the whole point in war is to meet objectives with as little force necessary but at the same time with enough to reach it. As we can see Israel force was disproportionate in that it wasn't strong enough. Hezbollah is still there, soldiers are still kidnapped and Hezbollah looks like it won't be disarmed. The moral relativism that has led to a paradigm where a democracy is put on the same level of Islamo-fascist terrorists speaks volumes to depravity and decadence of western culture. There is still evil in the world after Hitler and there exists rights and wrongs. that means there still such a thing as just wars, which is precisely what Israel is fighting against the islamo-facsists that seek its destruction. Israel will fight and be victorious, for without victory there is no survival.

I fully agreewith you amanda.

Oh Margie.. you and all the Jews have to grow up. We all know that your roots lie in Palestine but so does the roots of Christians as well. Do you see them fighting to go and live where Jesus lived? Do you see the Moslims all gathering in Saudi Arabia and living in Mecca and Jedda? If all the religions were to follow your path by reclaiming the lands of their prophets, the whole world would live in the Middle East!!! And what a great place that would be!!!

Nr 1, Realist, Jordan has never been, is not, and will never be a part of Palestine. They don't share the same culture, or heritage, or even history. Jordan is the hashemite kingdom. Their origins are hashemitie, not Canaanite, as the Palestinians. Nr 2, Justine, yes, I live in Sweden and have done so my entire life, and my life is very good, thank God for that. I can enjoy freedom of speech, freedom of opinion, and freedom overall. Something which the people of my origins can not. And I will not rest, nor stop, even for a second, until the day where the people of Palestine enjoy the same amount of freedom in Palestine, as I do in Sweden. Nr 3, Jane, Israel will never become a normal country, or remotly assimilated to any normal countries, as long as it is an occupational force. Israel is occupying another people, illegaly, and inhumanly. No matter what illusions it brings to itself, it simply will not be normal. Keep that in mind. Yours, 19 year old law student from Sweden.

Nr 1, Realist, Jordan has never been, is not, and will never be a part of Palestine. They don't share the same culture, or heritage, or even history. Jordan is the hashemite kingdom. Their origins are hashemitie, not Canaanite, as the Palestinians. Nr 2, Justine, yes, I live in Sweden and have done so my entire life, and my life is very good, thank God for that. I can enjoy freedom of speech, freedom of opinion, and freedom overall. Something which the people of my origins can not. And I will not rest, nor stop, even for a second, until the day where the people of Palestine enjoy the same amount of freedom in Palestine, as I do in Sweden. Nr 3, Jane, Israel will never become a normal country, or remotly assimilated to any normal countries, as long as it is an occupational force. Israel is occupying another people, illegaly, and inhumanly. No matter what illusions it brings to itself, it simply will not be normal. Keep that in mind. Yours, 19 year old law student from Sweden.

Nr 1, Realist, Jordan has never been, is not, and will never be a part of Palestine. They don't share the same culture, or heritage, or even history. Jordan is the hashemite kingdom. Their origins are hashemitie, not Canaanite, as the Palestinians. Nr 2, Justine, yes, I live in Sweden and have done so my entire life, and my life is very good, thank God for that. I can enjoy freedom of speech, freedom of opinion, and freedom overall. Something which the people of my origins can not. And I will not rest, nor stop, even for a second, until the day where the people of Palestine enjoy the same amount of freedom in Palestine, as I do in Sweden. Nr 3, Jane, Israel will never become a normal country, or remotly assimilated to any normal countries, as long as it is an occupational force. Israel is occupying another people, illegaly, and inhumanly. No matter what illusions it brings to itself, it simply will not be normal. Keep that in mind. Yours, 19 year old law student from Sweden.

ISRAEL THIS IS APPARENTLY YOUR NEW ROLE IN THE WORLD! YOU ARE TO PROBE WITH YOUR ARMED FORCES ALL THE SUSPECTED ROTTEN SPOTS IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND PERHAPS THE WORLD. AND WHEN YOU FIND SUCH SPOTS AND YOU RE READY TO STRIKE TO REMOVE THE ROT, THE USA WILL TELL YOU TO RESTRAIN YOURSELF TO AVOID COLLATERAL CASUALTIES. THIS HAS BEEN GEORGE W. BUSH's GIFT TO YOU FOR BEING SUCH GOOD FRIENDS OF OURS THROUGH THE DECADEES. PLEASE NOTE THAT IN 2008 WHEN THE DEMOCRATS WIN THE ELECTIONS IN THE USA THIS SITUATION WILL NOT CHANGE BECAUSE THEY ARE JUST AS COWARDLY AS THE REPUBLICAN POLITICIANS. PERHAPS THE NOW SENATOR JOE LIEBERMAN WILL FORM A NEW INDEPENDANT POLITICAL PARTY TO GIVE US SOME HOPE. THIS IS THE ONLY NON-SARCASTIC STATEMENT OF MINE IN THIS BLOG!

Nr 1, Realist, Jordan has never been, is not, and will never be a part of Palestine. They don't share the same culture, or heritage, or even history. Jordan is the hashemite kingdom. Their origins are hashemitie, not Canaanite, as the Palestinians. Nr 2, Justine, yes, I live in Sweden and have done so my entire life, and my life is very good, thank God for that. I can enjoy freedom of speech, freedom of opinion, and freedom overall. Something which the people of my origins can not. And I will not rest, nor stop, even for a second, until the day where the people of Palestine enjoy the same amount of freedom in Palestine, as I do in Sweden. Nr 3, Jane, Israel will never become a normal country, or remotly assimilated to any normal countries, as long as it is an occupational force. Israel is occupying another people, illegaly, and inhumanly. No matter what illusions it brings to itself, it simply will not be normal. Keep that in mind. Yours, 19 year old law student from Sweden.

"Yes, it is always the next war - the redeeming, corrective war that restores our "honor" and defines us until the war thereafter." - Roron Rosenblum War lovers can never understand why so many of the rest of us can see that war is sometimes necessary, but never good.

Hi Doron, perhaps you need to brush up on your Herzel. Didn't he say, We will be the outpost of civilization to the barbarians?

Dino, Jewish people have always been in what the Roman's called Palestine for governmental purposes but even to them that land was the Land of Israel and had been all the way back to the time of Joshua. Since King David Jerusalem has been the capital of that state and still is despite all the invasions that have taken place. Just imagine if no Islam existed there would be no or at least almost no wars on this planet. Further imagine if the Palestinians were all sent to Uganda how peaceful Israel might become. Most of what are called Palestinians never belonged to that land at all. Dino, read your Bible and listen no more to stupid tales or religous prejudice.

For Israel to plow ahead with its 'Grand Design' it had to engage in self delusion and mental gymnastics. For starters 'there were no Palestinians', 'there was no refugee problem' and 'the UM (U.N) was shmum). The ultimate in self delusion is the Israeli attitude to resolution 242. The Israeli interpretation of the text just does not hold water. The assertion that the resolution does not call for withdrawal of ALL forces from ALL occupied territories is bogus. The preamble specifically says that the acquisition of territories by war is inadmisible!. And nowhere does the resolution say Israel should withdraw to defensible borders!. It says that all nations in the region are entitled to live within secure boundaries!. That includes the Palestinians as well. Boundaries are most secure when there is peace and peace is secured thru negotiations carried out in good faith. This is the only way out.

"Unlike some of its enemies, Israel has a far more means of existential solace - in vitality, culture and in creativity - than the planting of a flag of victory among the ruins." This is a load of bull! I read into this that Israel is "unlike" its enemies; that it is existentially in every way far superior to them, more civilized and less corrupt than they are; that its "culture and creativity" transcend the primitive motives of war, conquest and the subjugation of people perceived as inferior; that Israel is forced unwillingly, (chiefly by the U.S.), into playing a role for which it was never designed. Listen, Israel was born out of blood, war, and destruction. Israel's "demesne" was wrenched violently and unjustly from the native Palestinian population. Israel is every bit as barbarous, ruthless and corrupt as its enemies. Rosenblum is in total denial. His imagination creates a transcendent race which, in fact, does not exist.

Perhaps the writer should know that Israel was chosen because she was a small insignificant people by God not to glorify them rather to glorify Himself through them. The world does not hate Jews because they are Jews but because they are God's people and the world hates God. Indeed that is why Islam had to be invented so that the children of Ishmael, who was caste out, may by the evil that we see today, overturn and crush that which God decreed all those centuries ago. Israel is the type and figure for God's elect and for that she endures the wrath of a Godless world. Even if Islam, which is the anti-type, became the only faction throughout the world and stood against Israel, Islam would fail because whatever it is, it is not God's. Another god yes, but Almighty Jehovah, never. In all Scripture God always uses the small or the weak to break the large and powerful so the writer should know what Israel is for without having to ask the question.

First of all, drop the "Israel Lobby" crap that the European far left loves to use. This is just a rehashed "the Jews control America" argument of paranoid anti-semites. The fact is that the American people overwhelmingly support Israel, and this is shown in every survey on the subject. Secondly, the simplistic "just leave the occupied territories" is a lame argument. What was the Arabs excuse for wanting to exterminate Israel BEFORE 1967 (which is what caused the 6 Day War)?? It's the same deal in Lebanon. Israel withdrew in 2000, with the UN certifying that they were completely out of Lebanon. Did that stop Hizballah?? The European left needs to realize the simple fact: Israel is NOT dealing with reasonable people who you can sit down and negotiate with(i.e., Hamas, Hizballah).

I have enjoyed reading Rosenblum's articles for years. They are on many occasions sarcastic but only to make a point (or two) which are and should be taken well. Evry point he raises in this op-ed is correct and should be seriously considered. He however does not dwell on THE root causes for the various debacles and does not offer concrete solutions. I believe that the essence of Israel's troubles was summarised by Ben Gurion's arrogant quip that "it is not important what the Goyim say but what the Jews do". First of all the history of the Jews had always been dictated by what the 'Goyim' did. Even today Israel's fate is wholy dependent on if when and what 'They' do. The settlers in Palestine were totally self absorbed and did not relate to the concerns of the indeginous populace. After the war for independence, Israel did not internalise the meaning of the Nakba. Erasing 300+ Arab villages from the face of the earth did not erase their memory... to be continued

Nr 1, Realist, Jordan has never been, is not, and will never be a part of Palestine. They don't share the same culture, or heritage, or even history. Jordan is the hashemite kingdom. Their origins are hashemitie, not Canaanite, as the Palestinians. Nr 2, Justine, yes, I live in Sweden and have done so my entire life, and my life is very good, thank God for that. I can enjoy freedom of speech, freedom of opinion, and freedom overall. Something which the people of my origins can not. And I will not rest, nor stop, even for a second, until the day where the people of Palestine enjoy the same amount of freedom in Palestine, as I do in Sweden. Nr 3, Jane, Israel will never become a normal country, or remotly assimilated to any normal countries, as long as it is an occupational force. Israel is occupying another people, illegaly, and inhumanly. No matter what illusions it brings to itself, it simply will not be normal. Keep that in mind. Yours, 19 year old law student from Sweden.

the socalled pallestinian arab refugees ought to come to terms with the fact that they have not been absorbed into the host countries like east african asians, vietnamese boat people, cubans, and countless others have been absorbed for his reason. THEIR ARAB BROTHERS HATE THEM AND CALL THEM FELLAHIN(PEASANTS) AND WANT TO USE THEM AS POLITICAL PAWNS FOR THEIR OWN PURPOSES.

You are disinformed. According to the Qran, Jews and Christians enjoy freedom of religion and preferential status in Muslim societies as compared with other non-islamic people. Before the foundation of Israel Jews have always found asylum and were tolerated (some made remarkable careers) in Muslim countries. Without the protection Islamic countries gave the Jews against the Christian persecution for some 1.000 years there would hardly be any Jews left nowadays. The present hostility of Muslims against Jews is solely based on the behaviour of Israel in the Middle East conflict and is otherwise unprecedented in history.

You say "the harder you hit Islam the stronger it gets". This expression fits Judaism much more than Islam. Judaism, 5000+ years old, precedes Islam and, throughout history has been attacked by nations and religions, many of which no longer exist, while Judaism survives and gets stronger. Get wise!