Men's honor

Sol-- If you REALLY read my posts, you would have realized...that in no way did I minimize the seriousness/senselessness of honor killings...I AM A WOMAN! I have good Arab & Muslim friends (male & female) & I leave them with no doubt about my position on this issue--& others. However-- I also did what needed to be done here. ...Address the inherent hypocrisy in this article [that is no similar push/mention of the problems among the Ultra Orthodox, etc. (also in Israel & elsewhere) as though there is none]. I also put things in the larger context of the many types of violence/mistreatment/ abuse...still being committed against women...IN MANY AREAS OF THE WORLD (In Many Different Religions/Countries, Etc.). I specifically said (in similar words)...that IT MUST ALL STOP! And-- I said it takes MEN & WOMEN in the world to do so. Call My Approach What You Will-- Doesn't mean that I'm going to change the way I do things. Context, generally, is always best!

Sol-- If you REALLY read my posts, you would have realized...that in no way did I minimize the seriousness/senselessness of honor killings...I AM A WOMAN! I have good Arab & Muslim friends (male & female) & I leave them with no doubt about my position on this issue--& others. However-- I also did what needed to be done here. ...Address the inherent hypocrisy in this article [that is no similar push/mention of the problems among the Ultra Orthodox, etc. (also in Israel & elsewhere) as though there is none]. I also put things in the larger context of the many types of violence/mistreatment/ abuse...still being committed against women...IN MANY AREAS OF THE WORLD (In Many Different Religions/Countries, Etc.). I specifically said (in similar words)...that IT MUST ALL STOP! And-- I said it takes MEN & WOMEN in the world to do so. Call My Approach Sick If You Will-- Doesn't mean that I'm going to change the way I do things. Context, generally, is always best!

Questions: 1. The west does not in any way accept "honor killing"- there is no symetry between the two- perhaps a man can get off the death sentence or jail term bny claiming a "passion" killing but there's no way brothers and fathers or family combine. Inaccuracy. 2.Police are inadequate everywhere not only in arab quaters. But is it possible they prefer to stay out of arab quarters for obvious reasons. 3. Are you blaming us again because we can't change arab society, because they don't take us as their leadrs?? The only possible thing would be to have battered women's shelters open to women in this situation too.

I have read your posts and I have no idea why you feel compeled to minimize or deflect the criticizm or characterize it as racist? There is no honor in an honor killing - it is a vile crime. And there is no place for violence against women in any society. Why divide them Marilyn - because honor killings in Israel are a phenomena of the Arab population. And that, Proud Pal, is different then the problem of Orthodox divorce - if you see an equivalence then you are sick. And Sami, I say "honor killing" is worse than any form of violence against women - care to name a worse form of vilence against women? This article was not an us vs. them piece, this is a very real problem and needs to be dealt with - by all men and women of goodwill.

I hope that men would understand that it is quite OK to be just a human being; meaning feeling insecure, weak at times, not having all the answers to everything, not needing to be the one in control of everything at all times. It must be very exhausting to be a man and to live up to the expectations of the man's role day in and day out; running the "show"! It is time for the men to accept their own humaneness...it is desirable for the men to step out of their macho role and I wish they knew that it is perfectly safe for the men to be their own selves with us women. Once men become capable to confront their human factors in themselves, they will realize that such a concept as "honour" is only an illusion, which denies one's own humaneness and deprives it from others too. Men and women are meant to share the burdens together NOT for the man to prevail over the women! IT IS OK TO BE HUMAN!

Very important editorial. Thank you.

Sami sami sami More women are killed in traditional societies then in modern societies and it is usually because of family honour. One thing I agree with you - it is not just a problem in traditional Arab societies - in India they have the same problem. Anyway may they burn for ever in hell those who commit these barbaric acts.

Many men responding to this editorial apparently can't read -- it is saying that the murder of a woman by a husband for her independent behavior is NOT different than the murder of a woman by her father or brother for the same cause. Far from singling out Muslims, it is saying the identical underlying belief system exists in Western cultures -- it is just framed differently, AND has become less tolerated in the West over the past few decades because women spoke up, as they must in Arab communities. Here are men- both Western and Arab -minimizing violence towards women while loudly 'protecting' their religion/ culture from a newspaper article they didn't even understand. It is a perfect example of how imaginary 'honor' can take precedence over human life. All patriarchal cultures, Arab or Jew or Christian, left or right, put male pride ahead of women's lives.

Generalization and essencialization: "While in Western society women are murdered by their husbands for infidelity and divorce, in the Arab family the task of killing is given to brothers, fathers and cousins. " Claiming to understand the problem of the orient, better than the orientals do: "In Arab society prevention is even more difficult since even the closest relatives do not protect the woman from murder." Paternalism: "In the Arab sector this is a struggle that requires courage, and every assistance must be offered." Besides who said that "honor killing" is worse than any form of violence against women? Violence is violence and is rejected as a matter of principle

Brake should be break. And-- Mistreatment in should be mistreatment against. Also-- Men who defend women/prevent & stand up against the abuse of women...are to be commended...& should be proud of themselves. It's A Coward's/A Weak Man's (Person's) Way-- To mistreat women. ...To abuse those who are less in strength...than you are. Being "A Real Man"-- IS NOT DEFINED by how much a man mistreats/abuses women (nor controls a woman)...NOR IS IT RESPECTED! The Above-- Is meant FOR ALL MEN who believe (or are taught) that the mistreatment, abuse & killing of women for honor, etc....is their duty, right, responsibility...OR...is an anyway acceptable. No Matter-- Who you are...your position, your religion, your family...your society/country...etc. All Humans-- Deserve certain types of treatment! Being a Man or a Woman...DOESN'T CHANGE THIS!

I think that the honor killings have nothing to do with Islam and have everything to do with cultures that value some brainless "honor" higher that human lives. An European example. An Italian movie (a 1970ies or 1960ies movie) about a Sardonic village where people had similar code of honor. A man stole a secret visit to his wife, and succeeded in making her pregnant with a baby. The villagers put so much pressure on him to kill his wife that he did so, and was recognized as a "man of honor" once more. A French 1960ies movie about Corsica where a police chief was totally disrespected because he did not obey the code of honor but laws. Everything changed when his aunts took the matter in their hands, and started to kill his enemies.

This is an excellent editorial. It doesn't say that all Arabs are misogynists, nor that all Jewish women are safe from domestic violence. Twisting words only diverts attention from this acute, heartbreaking and appalling social problem in the State of Israel, this is to say: a problem in our society that we cannot ignore, as citizens or as human beings. To be fair, Friday's front-page article in Haaretz indicated one reason that this plague has continued for so long, why the police have not curbed it: the conspiracy of silence by men and women alike. Now that the wall of silence has broken we can hope to see an end to this ghastly "tradition".

"First Arab woman parliamentarian in Israel was not from an Arab party. Why?" Because she's allowed to choose the party she wishes to belong to. Not only that, any party is allowed to choose her. It's a start and she is proving herself to her peers who should be proud of her. A better question would be "why are there single-issue parties at all?"

Paul Harris, keep your pants on and don't take off on an idiotic "Islamic" thing; your ignorance has no limits. Honor killings should be condemned by Arabs for what they are, horrible crimes committed under the false excuse of honor. This idiotic practice stems from the dominance of men over women and by men who cannot tolerate not being obeyed by a woman, even if the woman was the sister, this is where the honor idiocy starts and finishes. Haaretz is to be commended for discussing this subject openly to help put a stop to this criminal practice; 12 murders a year is not a small number.

Mistreatment Of Women Is Still ALL AROUND US-- Not just in the Arab/Muslim world. ...But is a reality on ALL continents & in most countries/among MOST groups of people. Jewish Society/ISRAEL-- Issues such as a woman recently being beaten in Israel for not moving to the back of the bus...still ring until this day. Follow this up with the routine concerns of abuse in the Ultra Orthodox community. Let's also talk about women having difficulty getting divorces at times as well. Israel-- Is also known as a center for trafficking women. In The U.S.-- Women are still exploited (watch our videos, etc.)...& many times earn less than men do. In Other Areas-- Prostitute Trafficking is heavy. ...And young girls are used as prostitutes. Bottom Line-- ALL have work to do! It Takes-- MEN & WOMEN to brake cycles of violence against women! It Takes ALL (MEN & WOMEN)-- To break cycles of injustice/mistreatment in against ALL PEOPLE in our world!

FROM ALL THOSE ANTI - SEMITES WHO IGNORE APARTHEID BY GENDER AND RELIGION !

Where in the editorial was the whole of Arab society labeled "women killers"? Nowhere. And nowhere was the claim made that there is a special duty on Arab men to kill women. Just relax, and re-read the article. Being able to see the faults in one's own society and well as the good is a sign of maturity, you know.

Where did the article say all Arabs do that? That's nonsense. If you want good racist lies why not look in the OFFICIAL Arab media about Jews,All Jews.

What stupidity is this? Surely they are all just women with the same rights? Why divide them into Jewish and arab as if one is different to the other?

Essentializing Arab society as if it is all about killing women, or as if there is a special duty on all men in Arab family to kill women is utter racism, spread by this newspaper. This is not to deny that such a problem exists, but to label a whole society that they "women killers" is just akin to labeling all Jews as "occupiers and war criminals". Violence against women is not an Arab phenomenon. It is universal. It is widespread in the east and the west and among all nations.

First Arab woman parliamentarian in Israel was not from an Arab party. Why?