Lieberman for prime minister
With Lieberman as prime minister, extremism would no longer need to hide. The right would be a genuine right - fascist, racist, supporting the transfer of Arabs and giving the peace process no chance.
By Zvi Bar'el
As long as Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas did not agree to hold direct talks with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Israel's situation was excellent. The refusenik was on the other side, as usual. The fact that Israel has refused to commit to the 1967 borders and agree to extend the freeze on settlement construction, while continuing to build in East Jerusalem, did not change Abbas' status as a refusenik.
But Abbas is not refusing to hold direct talks, he is only refusing to accept what Netanyahu told Spanish Foreign Minister Miguel Angel Moratinos: Continuing the settlement freeze after September 26 is impossible from a political point of view and will break up the government, as will Abbas' other demands, which Netanyahu described as "unrealistic." So with whom exactly does Netanyahu want Abbas to hold direct talks? With a phantom prime minister? With the man afraid of his own coalition's shadow?
On Thursday the Arab League's Monitoring Committee decided to "permit" Abbas to hold direct negotiations. Everything, of course, based on terms Abbas has set. Nothing has changed in principle - neither the position of the Arab League nor of Abbas. What has changed is the commitment that Abbas received from Washington, the kind that will let the Arab League give a green light to direct negotiations.
The result is that the negotiations with the Palestinians are being conducted over Netanyahu's head, on the Washington-Ramallah-Cairo-Riyadh axis. While Netanyahu is promising not to extend the settlement freeze as he approves the continued "Judaization" of Jerusalem, someone is holding genuine negotiations. While Netanyahu is dealing with the details of the show - direct or indirect negotiations - Washington and its allies are dealing with the content.
When the prime minister finds it hard to comprehend the change in the position of Abbas and the Arab League, when he says he can't meet the conditions because of coalition problems, we can question why this government should continue. Why not go to elections and try to establish a new Israeli leadership that can really lead?
The answer so oft repeated is that elections will produce an extreme right-wing government and halt the peace process. Really? And what kind of government is currently in power? Is it really the coalition that is threatening to bring down the government if its head makes a move toward the Palestinians? Isn't it the people furthest to the right, the more nationalist, who are setting this government's character and policy?
Anyone who believes in Netanyahu's good intentions cannot ignore that he has become a front - not to say a cartoon - that the extreme right is hiding behind. This impressive man, who speaks English so well, is at the receiving end of blows, not the real warmongers. Anyone who does not believe Netanyahu believes that it's a show and that there is no difference between Lieberman's right-wing and Bibi's right-wing. In both cases, this prime minister cannot achieve peace and will not advance the negotiations, and because of him relations between Israel and the United States may collapse.
And what if Lieberman wins the elections? First of all we will be rid of his bluffing, and that's nothing to sneeze at. With Lieberman as prime minister, the process could turn out faster. Pressure from the United States would be less hesitant, and the public response less ambivalent. With Lieberman as prime minister, extremism would no longer need to hide. The right would be a genuine right - fascist, racist, supporting the transfer of Arabs and giving the peace process no chance.
But then the left will somehow be able to revive, because anyone who is not from Habayit Hayehudi or Yisrael Beiteinu will be able to set up his own hostel and not be a guest at the shack set up by the right. People today in the center will not be shy about embracing their leftist leanings.
Anyone who fears elections wants to continue living a lie in which the extreme right does not dictate policy, in which Abbas, Haim Ramon or Shimon Peres are the enemies of peace, and in which salvation is possible only with direct talks. Idiocy. Until we have leaders who understand how dangerous the slope is on which Israel is racing, the slope will not disappear. Sometimes, when it's impossible to stop the fall, it's best to speed it up.
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Zvi Bar'el the court's jester ! Your love affiar with the Palestinians will never end and so your hatred towards the Israeli Government.
For what it's worth, Lieberman's plan does NOT involve moving a SINGLE ARAB out of a SINGLE HOUSE. Rather, he wants to change the BORDERS, so that Arabs could live in their beloved Palestine and Jews in their beloved Israel. The end result would be that large chunks of Arabs would still be living in Israel but. Not sure if Jews would be allowed to live in Palestine, though...
Without Lieberman a temporary settlement freeze in exchange for nothing would not have been possible. Unrest by settlers would be far worse, those that believe that final status can be achieved without Lieberman's endorsement do not understand the situation the government faces among settlers. He is a settler and they trust him to represent their interests. He also was one of the first to support an inquiry into the flotilla incident, if Hamas do not accept PA forces back in Gaza Strip the disengagement policy will go ahead, only one way to stop it reconciliation under the Egypt policy.
have two practical governments on both sides that would make it or break it.
I'm no lieberman fan, but the criticism here completely varies from honest portrayal. Lieberman has never advocated transferring people but transferring borders to include Israeli citizens who would rather be Palestinian ones.
His idea is of two states for two people; ie/ transfer the israeli arabs to the new palestinian state and transfer the settelers into Israel. Big time population transfer.
Israel does not need any more bad press. Yet Lieberman will provide an abundance of it. If Israelis want the image of a rogue state, they should continue supporting Lieberman, Netanyahu and the Ultra-Orthodox coalition.
Anytime you are losing an argument on legal grounds or popularity, first and foremost,you must attack the person and not the issue. because you are only a vocal minority of Israeli opinion. Then accuse him of racism . Right out of the Marxist manifesto.
The man is an ideology... as it happens sometimes in History. No need to be marxist to question this man's strategy and ideology.
1921. Venezelos and Ataturk, great statesmen and patriots of their respective nations split the Agaean Sea up to the border between themselves and Bulgaria and "transferred Turkish nationals within a line that was designated as Turkey, and Greeks moved across that line in terrritory that became the Kingdom of Greece. That transfer never made a nobel prize, but for some reason, except for the Cyprus thing, there have been no wars between the two countries. Ben-Gurion toyed with the idea, Jabotinsky, too, but it never left the idea stage in the Zionist movement. The Turkish-Greek transfer has stabilized the relations between those to old rivals, yet to suggest the same for the Israel-Palestinian conflict is regarded as racist, fascist, and all the other pejoratives that the Boutique Leftists can pour onto the conflict. Maybe Lieberman's position has some merit, it worked a "few years ago' didn't it. Could it be that there are some vested interests in the State of Israel and the Palestinian Arab elites that would rather keep the pot boiling for the same of increase profits?
about 25 % of the total population. They reside in the heart of the country, it is not couple villages near the expected border as it was in the example you mentioned.
Actually half live right along the border in the triangle and in Wada Ara. It would actually be very simple to do. They however are not willing to live under Palestinian rule.
an exellent analysis of the real truth from bad to worse
Even if you hate what he stands for he doesn't need a finger in the wind to say what he thinks. Netanyahu is as bad as Arafat was in his lying. He lies to the American people proclaiming his desire for a two state solution and they eat it up. Israelies know the real Netanyahu and yearn for the Greater Isreal he really wants. I want truth. Only a very few politicians let you know where they stand. Reagan, Churchill, Castro, Khruschev, Hitler, and Ahmadminejad. A government led by Lieberman would take the stalling and bs out of the negotiations.
problem is, nobody will talk to them. If you think there is tension between the US, the EU. the rest of the world with Israel today this will look the golden days than.
Livni is comparable to Abbas. Lieberman is comparable to Hamas.
excuse me, but you are an idiot. Lieberman is neither a fascist nor a racist, even if I am not a big fan of his. You should have learned already: it doesn't matter who speaks for them or for us, they will always find a reason not to make peace. There are not enough conditions we would have to fulfill to before they would accept a Jewish state of Israel. BTW - why is it fascist and racist to give Um-el-Fahm to Palestine in exchange for a Jewish town in Judea or Samaria? Why is it racist to wish to have less Arabs in Israel, but fully kosher, when the Palestinians don't want to keep any Jew in Palestine ?
There is no chance whatsoever a left-wing government will be able to sell any peace agreement to Israeli public.
Some form of a building freeze in the West Bank is absolutely elementary. You can't negotiate the division of a pizza when one side keeps eating it. This basic truth was understood even by Dumbya Bush, which is why it was put in phase 1 of his Roadmap, and why Sharon committed to it. (Both were businessmen.) If Netanyahu cannot get his coalition colleagues to accept this easy step, then his government will never accept the really painful steps that go with a real peace agreement. Netanyahu is wasting everybody's time when presenting his government as going for peace. It will never happen with this coalition. Netanyahu can get a majority for peace, in a coalition between Likud, Kadima, Labor (68 MKs), supported from the outside by 14 more of Meretz and the Arabs. Even the Haredim (16 MKs) will agree to peace if a good part of Jerusalem will be kept. (They are not interested in the West Bank.) Netanyahu is stuck in his coalition because of some political fears of Lieberman. The man is a political coward, the like of whom never before appeared on the Israeli scene.
Lieberman is the only one who speaks the truth. The Arabs in Israel view themselves more as Palestinians than Israelis and hundreds of them have actively helped terrorists. What is wrong with making the Arab villages on the Israeli side of the Israel Palestine border part of Palestine. They will retain their land and houses and will no longer have to be ruled by the Jews, and we will lose a minority who supports our enemies.
Oh,of course. Everything is fine with 'Refuseniks' the Arabs. The only spoiler of the game is Israel............................................. Some people deliberately write to get applause,without they themselves really believing what they write.Others write because they believe with conviction that what they write or say ,is the only truth in town,no matter that the indications show the contrary of his beliefs.He says to himself,"I have said what I have said & that's it" You don't have to go far,some of the articles are the same as they were a year ago five years ago or ten years ago.They get into a rut,& to hell with the changing worlds . "I'm sticking to my guns"
Take a long hard look around you, Teach - with both eyes - and you'll see that it's YOU who clings to draconian ideals and ignores the changing world around you. The world becomes MORE enlightened with time - NOT less - it's you, and others like you, who are stuck in the rut with your minds closed and only one eye open. So stick by your guns all you want, but don't expect the world to yield to your obstinance - you will be overwhelmed and left to lick your wounds in obscurity.
Hello there ! Did you understand my post at all ?..... We the posters don't write articles in the first place. The articles are written by newspapermen of all shapes & colours. We write short posts on Talkbacks. I specifically had in mind someone like Y. Sarid.. It doesn't do any harm to think things out.for yourself. Read before you dive headlong into shallow waters .. .
Granted Joerg Haeger was a nasty man, a bigot, anti-semite, and racist. But that didn't make Austria fascist. Poor Ha'aretz, losing our minds are we now.
And yet his rise reflected deeply unpleasant, fascistic, anti-semitic sentiment within Austria...
Doesn't Haaretz share the Arab view that Jews have no connection whatsoever to the place?
so that's all "judaization" entails, acknowledging some connection between jews and israel? please, we're not all that stupid
on settlement building in the heart of the the Land of Israel. If this was a real right-wing government, Labor would be out, and the National Union would be in. This is a centrist government - with Likud and Labor and Shas and HaBayit Hayehudi and Aguda - that's the only thing it can be.
Perhaps with Lieberman as prime minister the Arabs would finally realize that we have had enough of their terror and war and it is time for them to accept the hard fact that we are here to stay and we shall survive on our terms. Maybe it's a good thing that the world is a bit frightened of Lieberman. Thirty years of left wing givts never made peace, accepted the partition of our homeland and was willing to surrender more of our patrimony. It's time for a Zionist govt in Israel and maybe Lieberman can provide it.
is not frightened of Lieberman, the world is frightened of the Israeli Society, electing those guys...
Settlers running around stealing more internationally recognized Palestinian land every single day, with the IOF (Israeli Occupational Forces) protecting them. Illegal attacks on sovereign Turkish vessels. War crimes aplenty in Gaza and Lebanon. Every single act was/is a terrorist act, and yet we still protect you. No wonder the Arabs hate us so much. I can't say that I blame them.
because he will destroy any credibilty (if any) israel had, like when bibi said 9/11 was the best thing that ever happened for israel.
Haaretz again has a lot to write against any Israel actions Yhis proarb paper will find fault in all deals .WHAT DOES THE HAARETZ WANT??? answer give Israel to the arabs. Let the cowardly groveling backstabbing barak and the arabs wipe out he jews . Start another HOLOCAST!!!
The Palestinians will know there is a leader who won't be pushed around and won't make concessions for concessions sake.
Our key allies (US, UK, Germany, France, Egypt, Jordan, and for the time being, Turkey) feel they should cosy up to Netanyahu, even when they disagree with them. Would there be the slightest problem for a US President in condemning the latest racist comment from Lieberman?
With Lieberman as PM, the Pals would know that they would be wasting their time in negotiating with the new government. Lieberman has already proven himself thousands of times that he is both a racist and a terrorist. Why would anyone want to negotiate with such vermin, when they clearly care nothing of peace?
give gog and magog free rein
just imagine what one real step in the Palestinians direction would do. If that really is the case, Lieberman as PM seems likely. i have always felt Lieberman is the best thing for the Palestinians and the best way to resurrect the left in Israel.
Will never resurrect itself.This in not the proverbial Phoenix !
What Ziv Bar'el and others are evidently missing is that if Lieberman becomes our next Prime Minister it will be because we, the people, will have elected him. In my opinion, what that would indicate concerning the Israeli electorate is more distressing than anything our gutless politicians might do. If we are to suffer a fascist regime it will only because our neighbors and acquaintances wish it.
It is a very old trick which became a zionist dream.
"But then the left will somehow be able to revive", wishful thinking; they are done, actually have done themselves in for a long long time. No alternative but another right government, no matter how much Zvi Barel hates himself
With Lieberman as Prime Minister Israel will be showing its true face at last ! Hail Avigdor ! Hail Zion ! Hail Jerusalem !
Who is advising Obama regarding the two-state solution in Israel? Is it the Saudis or the yeshiva-educated Rahm Emanuel? Obama's dhimmi bow before the Saudi king during the G20 meeting indicates that he will submit to their demands. Rahm Emanuel is the architect of all Obama's moves. That does not bode well for Israel. This being the case, Israel needs more of leaders like Lieberman and also Katzaleh. If Israeli politicians and media need to be reformed, it should start with the educational system in Israel. The education system of the US is ruining the students' perspective about their own nation. It must be the same in Israel. The teachers of the 60s generation take the side of the enemy & blame their own nation for the woes brought about by the enemy. Revamp the educational system and get more people like Lieberman.
You, and other like you, keep screaming that Hamas is a terrorist organization. Fair enough, but what about former Kach members, such as Lieberman? Do you recognize them as being terrorists? What of Likud members? After all, Likud is descended from a terrorist organization, and still holds many of the same terrorist "values." On the flip side, if you choose to elect a terrorist like Lieberman, then we can finally say with certainty that Israel doesn't now, nor hasn't anytime in recent history, care about "peace" with the Palestinians. We can then stop funding you, and drop our decades long policy of Israel apologism in the UN. You will finally be all alone, and you would have brought it on yourself.
what utter rubbish, what drivel. this self-hatred is doing far more harm to Israel than anything Avigdor Lieberman could possibly imagine. the real denial is from the Peres-Beilin faction refusing to accept that the Arabs truly believe that time is on their side, that they can continue to hold out by setting impossible demands, because eventually the rest of the world especially the Americans will get fed up with us bloody stubborn Jews and will abandon us, and that this time they can finish us off.
Time is actually on their side, as the oil reserves in region will eventually dwindle, and then what geo-political reason is there to prop up a crusader like garrison state in the middle east?
but Lieberman actually has done things not in Israel's best long term interests. Aside from Lieberman's own rhetoric about the Arabs, he has embarrassed Israel by his ACTIONS on more than one occasion. A good many of these actions were completely avoidable, and he went out of his way to satisfy his own ego without giving consideration to Israel's best interests.
and the reason for that is because the policies of the extreme right will ultimately lead to the downfall of the Zionist state.
Oil will dwindle and USA's relative economic power is also lessening. I'd check with USA's bankers, the Chinese regarding Israel's being propped up in the future. Time is not on the side of the Zionist enterprise.
...time now that Mr. Lieberman has been patiently-- adroitly, even--positioning himself for elections which will eventually come (that's what elections do, right?)--although I might not be as all-fired sure of what Mr. Lieberman's courses of action would be as prime minister--as the author seems to be.
It's all on YB website in their political charter.
yes, he did get some smarter suits made, and even reduced a few kilo... but does that hoodwink anyone...?
He must have read my very prediction a few weeks back. I also predicted Bibi and Sharon winning when others told me it would never happen.
Lieberman as a prime minister will bring Israeli politics to its illogical conclusion. Netanyahu in this role, tries intentionally, to deceive his public, the Palestinians and the American administration. Right now only the wizened up Palestinians do not buy one word of his. Lieberman will set the record straight with the other two. Life will be simple.
yes, as they say in the lingo: "in-drerd"...
There are many things to do for peace and stability but Israeli PM is the slave of keeping the balance in his government. If it does not work, why do u keep it? If u keep it, what will u negotiate with PA? Let s see. I also wonder.
As a matter of fact, it's actually more prudent to jump when you feel youself falling - to better pick a landing spot that will limit the damage you receive. So if Bibi honestly had any intention of negotiating peace and the borders of a Palestinian state, he'd come to terms with Kadima, and let his current "coalition partners" fly where they will. But he doesn't - and he won't - because despite his facade of appeasement for the United States, his goals are essentially the same as the little man and Yisrael Beiteinu.