Let's play 'what if'

Actually 95% of the french tolerated the german occupation and while french soldiers were in german prisons there were many fratenizations. after the nazis idiotically invaded russia with utter brutality french resistance was stronger

I would suggest you check out the German descriptions of the resistance in France and Poland - it was pretty much describer the same way. When you invade a country, you can't expect the locals not to react that way. Give the locals the same rights Jews have in the US, and you will see a change in their attitude.

If they teach it is all occupation, they are not alone.

The author of this article (and Zionists generally) must realize that a parent's primary interest, when it comes to their children, is not political. Building a decent society has a first step, and that step is not nationalism. Before you presume to fantasize what Palestinians should offer their children tomorrow, ask them what they want for their children today. Jewish Israelis give their own (Jewish) children any luxury available, but go to great lengths to avoid allowing the basic needs of their non Jewish neighbors' children to be met. It is a perverse Judaism.

Why in the world should any people be expected to recognize Israel as the "Jewish" State of Israel. Israel doesn't call itself that. Israel can call itself anything it wants, but it declared statehood on 14 May 1948 as the "State of Israel." It was recognized as a member of the UN as the State of Israel. Israel has diplomatic relations with 162 nations, all of whom recognize Israel as the State of Israel, because that's what Israel said its name is. But for Israel now to claim that Palestinians must recognize Israel as the "Jewish" State of Israel is nothing more than another arrogant attempt to forestall peace talks. In 2002 and again in 2007 the Arab League offered a comprehensive peace plan to the "State of Israel." If Israel wants to be called the "Jewish" State of Israel, change the name of the country. But it's silly. More than 20% of Israel is not Jewish. It would be like the UK deciding it is now to be called Great Anglican Britain.

Your comments were highly significant. Thank you for your contribution.

...have got your head in the sand. You can deny it all you want, but the world knows the truth.

bostonreview.net/BR26.6/karsh.html Begins on a false premise and builds a straw man on that false premise. There was NO Jewish right to statehood until 1947 and UNGA Res 181. http://talknic.wordpress.com/sovereignty-state-non-state-entity/ The other material is decades old.

We justify our hatred through theirs and they justify theirs through ours, and we document each others' atrocities to give a holy aura to our sacred hate. And both sides remain crippled and delegitimitized, and that's why the Center-Left went to sleep in the this winter of never ending hate. Palestinian indoctrination receives a never ending infusion of the worst and most vile antisemetism from many Arab quarters, governmental and non-governmental, and radical settler ideology is so racist and facist towards Palestinians, and so lethal towards Jews that question their tactics and motives, that it alienates people of conscience everywhere. Goldstone is no monster. He loves this country and he dared criticize it. His report was flawed, but instead of arousing a sense of deep introspection which is NOT self hatred, it incurred the wrath of our government's self-righteous hatred. Had he been Arab, Hamas would have had him slaughtered. So here we are back again in our mutual dance of death.

we have to realize peace, one way or another. Esther is right. You are at home in Australien or anywhere else. Almost the whole world is open to all.

The Israeli government is guilty of criminal negligence for allowing this kind of demonization of Jews in the PA/Gaza media, schools and religious institutions. They could have acted appropriately long, long ago but they chose to do nothing. It's amazing how Israeli leaders cry out in indignation whenever a German or a Ukranian makes an anti-Semitic comment, but they remain indifferent at the constant stream of incitement going on in the PA/Gaza media and educational and religious institutions. They scrutinize speeches and statements made in the west, but they appear completely blind to what's happening right in their own backyard. Go figure!

Israel? So that Hamas and Fatah can do what they claim in Arabic.

Keeping it quite simple, the Palestinians promised to stop teaching their children hatred and incitement as part of the Oslo Accords. As with every single agreement ever signed by the Palestinians, they have not honored their promise. In addition to the future harm caused by indoctrinatig kids, it also means that any "peace" agreement with the Palestinians is just as likley to be honored as their past broken promises. I like the idea of five years of real peace FIRST and THEN peace talks. If they can't do it now ,they won't be able to do it later.

Talk about incitment of children? Read Rabbi Yitzak Shapira's new Halachic commentary, "The King's Torah." It's guide to killing gentiles (aka, Arabs). A few quotes will suffice: "It is permitted to kill gentile children if they are going to grow up to be trained to harm Jews." "It is permissible to kill gentiles who harm Jews." "It is permissible to kill gentiles who have harmed Jews in the past and may harm them in the future, even if at the time they are killed, they are not harming Jews." And yes, this book has been embraced by many prominent Rabbis and is not a "fringe" movement. It is now traught in many West Bank Yeshivas. For an excellent report on the role religious incitment (both Moslem and Jewish) is playing in the conflict, see this link. Yes, its Al Jazeera, but watch it anyway. http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/insidestory/2009/11/20091111141817912970.html

inplaces like Janes and CIA factbook Iam not goint to print it all out for you. 2 Faisal Husseini Boston Review: A Trojan Horse?And the prominent Palestinian "moderate," Faisal al-Husseini, was far more explicit, describing the Oslo process as a "Trojan Horse" designed to promote the ... bostonreview.net/BR26.6/karsh.html - Similar 3.Arabs have been using chemical weapons since the Egypt/Saudi proxy war in Yemen at least Guile, Gas and Germs: Syria's Ultimate Weapons :: Middle East ...Chemical weapons, he argued, could only be eliminated in the context of a total elimination of all WMD.[5] Syria pressed other Arab states and the Arab ... www.meforum.org/.../guile-gas-and-germs-syrias-ultimate-weapons - Cached - Similar Book results for Arab weapons of mass destruction Terrorism Asymmetric Warfare and Weapons of ... - Anthony H Cordesman, ... - 470 pages The New Terrorism: Fanaticism and the Arms of ... - Walter Laqueur - 326 pages

Spot on Peter ! Street names, villages, round abouts, stamps, road maps etc have been changed after 48. Palestinian memory has been erased from history and this was part of israel's policy and propaganda. Even israelis themselves have no clue that palestinians used to live on that land. Too bad ! Palestinians do have a memory and that's what matters. It's time Education gets its way in Israel and things will change.

That is a culture of death of killers that they honor. This isnt about resistence, its about murder and honoring murderers. This is not a sign of people who want peace. This is not normal for behavior of anyone around the world under any circumstances.

occupation. The maximalist demands were there all along.

Any talk about Palestinian stadiums named after terrorists rings very empty so long as entire towns are named after David Raziel - a leader of Irgun who killed hundreds of innocent Arabs by bombing market places and trains. Want them to stop? Start by cleaning your own house.

What about Israeli maps that do not demarcate the west bank, gaza or the golan heights as occupied territories? Or what about roads named for Menachem Begin and Shamir (wanted terrorists during the mandate period)? Shamir killed Count Bernadotte and planted the bomb in the king david hotel... Rabin took part in the worst (atrocious) battles during 48 in Lydda and Ramleh and expelled the Latroun area villages in 67 as well. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

There is a street between Evanston and Skokie, Illinois - it's called Crawford Avenue. Just to the south, in Chicago, it is renamed Pulaski Blvd. Pulaski was labeled as a terrorist by the Brits during the first American war of Independence. He helped teach American farmboys to kill Brit soldiers. Marion County is also the most common name for a county in the USA. Yet the British newspapers insisted as late as 2000, that the man it was named for was a terrorist. Most teachers in the US don't know or ignore these facts.

Jews and especialy Israelis t5hat they belong to the land of Palestine while others do not.But now , they want the Pals to think like Jews and undertsnad that they are not occupied , that their plight is a conspiracy based on evil not truth , that they should change the way they think and accomodate the Zuionist principles. It will never happen . dream on Zionism or Israel......

For every Palestinian child whose mind is "poisoned," there is a Jewish settler child mind that is poisoned. I have talked with Jewish settler children and have been told that the Arabs have no place in the West Bank. They should all move to Jordan. I have talked with settler parents that have reinforced those statements with more emotion. I have seen Jewish settler children attack Palestinian children on their way to school. The Jewish settler children say and act with hostility towards Palestinian children. They are doing more damage to the Palestinian children than any Palestinian parents could ever do. Poisoning of minds comes more from how people are treated than than from any indoctrination.

Get real...When Israel starts treating Pals in the territories as human beings with some basic civil rights, then and only then, will attitudes change. Israel is not the victim here.

"Ever since 1974 the pals have only wanted one state..." Late starters, Israel was way ahead in only wanting one state.. : http://wp.me/pDB7k-l5 And that is what it has doggedly worked towards, for the last 60 years, against all UNSC resolutions, against it's obligation to the UN Charter, International Law, Geneva Conventions, even the Declaration of a Jewish State. "The way they educate their children proves it.." According to PMW. Memri, Camera who are propaganda outfits. " and is the main reason why they won?t accept Israel as being a Jewish state..." The main objection was THEY HAD NO CHOICE IN THE MATTER.

So you want us to teach our kids that Israel's policies of murder and occupation can and should be understood and respected? How insolent!!

the illegal raids, the human rights abuse, the destruction of their property, the attacks on their farms that go unpunished, shall i go on...

Ever since 1974 the pals have only wanted one state... The way they educate their children proves it, and is the main reason why they won?t accept Israel as being a Jewish state... It is amusing that the pals say they have made "historic concessions" about the recognition of Israel and its right to exist but alas they still teach their children the contrary... But on the bright side atleast The PA is not as bad as Hamas... Just look at the so called cartoon shows that are made by them...

Children having to pass through the Wall to reach their schools should be taught that there is no Occupation? That there is no ill-treatment at checkpoints? That Arab residents in Jeruslame are hated for being Arab, having no right to fix their houses not to talk about building a new one on their owned lands...? About massacres committed in the past few decades? Children are taught truth, everyone in Palestine wishes were those facts different. You may reject my view, but do so for Israeli soldiers as posted in JPost http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Article.aspx?id=167766 This behavior, legalized by State, is the cause of hate.

It would be convenient for Israel if the Palestinians programmed their children to prepare for a life of crumbs falling from Israels table. Better to forget that the table is stolen and the Israelis are invaders. Don't worry, be happy. So many ways that Israel can solve their "Palestinian" problem. All of them involve having the Palestinians learning to be happy with what they have and serving as a permanent underclass to Israel. Israel would not adopt this sort of demeaning silliness if they were the victims and it is an ugly idea that they think that anyone else should.

and you do not have to be a psychologist to realise that " the humiliated ones hate and those pushed to the corner will attack some day..." It is rather difficult for those who have lost their homes, their children or other familymembers to try to tell to their children only positive side of Israel or Israeli ones. Also one of the basic advice could be:" Treat the others like you would like them to treat you".

Incitement against Israel is an overlooked violation of the Roadmap. That's if Roadmap even matters anymore?

Speaking of evading... Who cares about the Palestine National Council Charter ? As Israel can hardly define its own borders how on earth could the palestinians do that ???? The issue comes from the occupation of the land the palestinians have agreed to accept as their own State in 88 (i.e the WB + East Jerusalem + Gaza). Capito ?

"MICHAEL Assymetric warfare does not need jets." PETE, you're right. I feel sorry for the IDF. They have to face stone throwers and guys armed with home-made rockets, AKs and sandals. And what have they got to face that huge threat with? Useless tanks, F16s, half tonne bombs, helicopters, missiles etc. etc. You're right PETE, it's totally unfair on the IDF. So, to be fair, let's swap. Let's give the Pals all the weapons and leave the IDF with just a few rifles. That'll show the Pals!

When children are harassed on their way to school by settlers (google 'Al-Tuwani' for a severe case of this), when the IDF invades their homes in the middle of the night, when their fathers are prevented from working, when their mothers are humiliated at checkpoints and when they witness us Israelis elect to the highest offices in the land men with the blood of many Palestinian and Lebanese civilians on their hands (e.g. Begin, Shamir, Sharon, Peres, etc) I think it is fair to expect that they will see Israel as an illegitimate nation not remotely interested in peace. This article is barefaced hypocrisy.

ester what do you know about the feelings of the diaspora jews. what do you know about palestine , about the history and who is really the owner of this land. if i forget you oh jerusalem..... if the turks had built a mosque on top of the acropolis,they would be the lords of athens?

Palestinian National Covenant (Charter) (Al-Mihaq Al-Watani Al-Filastini) Adopted by the Palestine National Council in 1964, revised in 1968* Text of the Charter: Article 1: Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the Arab homeland, and the Palestinian people are an integral part of the Arab nation. Article 2: Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.

"Sorrounding Arabs/Iran have many more jets and total military than Israel and they have WMD`s" Uh huh. What WMDs would they be? "Faisal Husseini an intellectual "moderate leader"" Sources for these alleged quotes....thx

"Ooops, when was Palestine ever free of Jews? " Never, actually.

you now have me confused.

And again what was the jewish population in this area during thta time ? Nothing compared to the 750 000 palestinians who lost everything.

Have you ever experienced the military occupation of your land ? of your country ? I suggest those who don't know, don't speak.

The daily actions of the Israeli army, invading homes of innocent people like Jamal Juma in the middle of the night in front of their children,arresting ordinary citizens for the sole reason of intimidation, humiliating and frightening families and students at checkpoints are the education all Palestinian children unfortunately receive. In Gaza last year, the education was drastic.

... according to your analogy, why are we clamoring to stuff them all into Israel, which in any case is ancestral Pal territory...

... only reveal how insular and cut-off settler existence really is...

nothing has changed since before or after 67 or after so called peace accords.

Sorrounding Arabs/Iran have many more jets and total military than Israel and they have WMD's,why do you people always ignore that? Trojan horse is the term Pals used to describe their negotiations. Faisal Husseini an intellectual "moderate leader" of the Palestinians said the war on israel would be conducted in stages.he noted Israel was a divided society and the palestinians he said would take advantage of that fact. 1 november 12 1992 speech to the arab youth organisiation in amman (al rai jordan)he detailed the above views. 2 two years after the signing of oslo on july 22 1995 he repeated these views at the university of jordan."our borders are from the river to the sea"etc etc 3 again in cairo he told the al arabi on june 24 2001 that the palestinians had a plan of stages that first used the comparison of oslo to the trojan horse. Easy on the hype Pals never ruled Palestine and they exist in large numbers both in Israel and in Jordan and WB and Gaza!

... who mowed down Moslem worshippers at prayer in Hebron's holy of holiest... ... a public shrine for Baruch Goldstein in his memory and "honor", a heinous murderer, was set up... this too is "education"...

The consequences of occupation are the same everywhere and not only amongst palestinians. History is there to tell. What did the French think about the Germans when they occupied half of the country in WW2 ? what about the Dutch ? and the rest of Europe ? how were colaborators treated during that time ? they were hung ! Now Occidentals (and israelis) are shocked by the way palestinians react ? they want to teach them how to be civilized under occupation ? come on ! losing memory is a bad habit.

... our pernicious militant religious right-wing vies very "successfuly" and consistently... moreover, the settler hate-machine on hilltops and other venues, is not falling far behind...

Under the 2003 Road Map, the Pals "at the outset of Phase 1" must first comply with the following: "All official Palestinian institutions end incitement against Israel." Hasn't happened. The instances cited in this article are only the tip of the iceberg.

"Ooooops - Israel is IN Palestine...no? " Ooops, when was Palestine ever free of Jews? Particularly in the West Bank and East Jerusalem? Only from 1948-67, wasn't it?

Hardman says it is by his citing the obsolete Mandate treaty... OR The Israeli Government claims illegally acquired and illegally annexed "territories occupied" IN Palestine ("territories occupied" and never withdrawn from, outside it's Internationally 'acknowleged' Sovereign boundaries [res 242]) PMW is a propaganda outfit. Have you corroborated their translations? (other than by Memri or Camera, who're also propaganda outfits)

The Pals are so weak that they can only dream of a Palestine that stretches from Jordan to the Mediterranean. They all know it's a dream and that they will have to live with Israel. A bit of minor fantasy education is nothing against F16s, tanks, bombs, guns, white phosphprous and all the Pals know it. Sure terrorism is wrong but this is to the Pals, as Next Year In Jerusalem was to 16th century Jews in Poland. By contrast what do Jewish teachers in Jews-only schools teach Jewish Israeli kids? Sure they maybe mention the Naqba, though I bet religious schools don't, but still the message they get is basically that Zionism was good, even though it meant the destruction of Palestinian society, that Jews from abroad have more rights to live in Israel than Pals expelled 60 years ago, and that the West Bank is a 'disputed territory' instead of the occupied territory the rest of the world thinks. If you want to educate for peace Karni, better start with the occupiers not the occupied

Come on, we do exactly the same thing with our kids. How many maps of Israel have the green line marked on them? (answer: almost none). What language do we use to talk about settlements in the West Bank? How many Rechov Lechi's are there in the country?