It's wrong to suggest Israel was direct result of Holocaust

The article isn't about whether Israel would have come into existence without WWII, but without the Holocaust. Saying that without WWII, Britain would have survived as an imperial power has nothing to do with this topic and is about as significant as arguing what impact the Franco-Prussian war had on Israel's formation. To repeat:Prior to WWII, Polish Jews were desperate to leave. Britain received (and consigned to the ovens) over 500,000 requests for exit visas from Poland alone. Had they survived the war, it is unlikely they'd have been inclined to stay...

Re-writing history is a common practice for Israel and Jews in general, as they good writer, reader, politicians, bankers, film director... they produced for all the un-educated masses ... everyday.

Had the Holocaust not occurred and had there been no Anti-Semitism in Europe, not so many Jews would have immigrated to Palestine, why should they? They would have been living happily in Europe... Anti-Semitism was in Europe before the Holocaust, and it was one of the major driving factors for Jewish immigration.

An excellent point - the extermination of the jews was motivated by preventing a genuine Israel - this anti-jewish doctrine is still very much the guiding principle of much european and greater germanic holy roman dialogue with Israel - even when being concilliatory or councilling `good` advice it is essential to suspect ulterior motives - anti-jewishism is so innate to the Catholic/Islamic blasphamous version of religion that it is possible for them to preach anti-semitism without the slightest guilt about their persecutory behaviour and whims. Peace is a difficult goal, but it can not be won by appeasement. Perhaps it can indeed never be won because of intransient conditions - but the sad truth is that germanic and arab/islamic nations understand well the power of persecution and systemic violence to break peoples faiths. Solomons song is part of the jewish heritage, as are rules against blasphemy and homosexuality. Beta Israel is a eugenics slave history ?

The destruction of the greatest share of European Jews, in itself perhaps the most evil deed in all of human history, also seriously impinged on the future development of the Jewish state. Haters of Israel deny this as they deny the whole development of the Yishuv prior to the Shoah- and as they also deny the fundamental historical connection of the Jewish people to the land of Israel. It is to be hoped that in the course of his term in office President Obama will learn the true history of the Jewish state, and not the Rashid Khalidi version.

Good day, vhardman. I am very puzzled by your citing of the Balfour Declaration as proof for the existence of the state of Israel. Nowhere does it imply that there was to be a Jewish state separate from Arab Palestine, Jews were about 9% of the population. Moreover, note the famous clause: "nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine." The Palestinian Arabs were not consulted, their rights hence prejudiced. Nor did Palestinians take part in the San Remo treaty drafting. What business did Britain, France, Italy and Japan have in deciding the demographics of Palestine? The Muslims and Christians, kept protesting, but no one paid heed. There were riots, strikes, massacres (Hebron--59 Jews, mostly European immigrants, i.e., Zionists, perished horribly). Jews in return formed terrorist groups, assassinating the British. Finally the British left the whole damned bloody mess and pulled out. A pox on them.

Masada means different things to different people. It does seem ominous that the IDF used to (and maybe still does) have its little boys and girls contemplate that symbolism early in their military adventures. It would be an interesting psychological study to look for echos of Masada, deliberate or accidental, in Zionism and the IDF. Some historical events seem "made to avoid" while others seem "inspiring". Masada is a sort of sweet poison mixture.

Israel was direct result of Holocaust. The true direct result was the pre Holocaust Zionist movement to return the Jews to their historic lands. The sheer evel of Holocaust may have played the role in expediting the creation of Israel, as its atrocities, in large directed at the Jews, had greatly outweighted, negated & silenced whatever remnants of the oposition in creating Israel there would have been. Which notion does or does not bode well in certain circles: return to the (accent) Jewish historic lands or the wrong was righted by purging the innocents who had nothing to do with that wrong into their own `Holocaust` (& does have to be righted by now removing or greatly usurping Israel). When even the gross propaganda or lie is repeated long enough (especially over so many, many years), the original events distance in time or ease out from the memories & generations change, eventually any mantra becomes nothing out of ordinary thought, idea or solution. Even in the highest of rows.

I recommend this book for anyone who wants to learn the true role of colonialism and great power rivalry combined with cultural and linguistic misunderstandings in creating this mess and how many missed opportunities there were for the world to have come out a better place. It truly shows how the contours of most of the world's problems originate with the WWI period rather than the WWII period or the Holocaust. The forgotten history of how things all fell apart in the early 20's is particularly instructive for today's world. Here's a good summary: http://www.garretwilson.com/books/peaceendallpeace.html

ccb - You have a valid point but you're overlooking the fact that half the Israeli population now consists of refugees from within the boundaries of the old Ottoman empire who lived in the Middle East since antiquity. Second, you don't understand the depth of hatred towards Jews in Europe. The Holocaust was not a singular event but the culmination of 1900 years of hatred, persecution, and smaller massacres. One of the horrors of the Holocaust is that Germany was one of the least likely places for it to have happened. Russia, Poland, etc...had a long history of massacring Jews and were the most likely perpetrators if Hitler had never existed. Even France was revealed as anti-Semetic during the Dreyfuss affair and their Vichy regime was complicit in the rounding up of Jewish victims. A Jewish state in Europe would be in worse peril than it is its current location, and that is is the true original cause of Zionism.

Modern Israel as a nation existed long before the UN put its limited stamp on it. If Israel was formed before the Holocaust, perhaps millions of Jews would have survived but instead they were murdered. The white paper of Britain killed millions of Jews.

The more you go on the more obvious it is you never studied history very much at all. Your posts do not reflect the history, merely your perversion of it. 600,000 is not 3-4 million(your absentia holocaust assumption). Much closer to a few hundred thousands. Then again Jewish virtual library says you exaggerate by over fifty thousand. Yes less than 550,000 in Israel in 1946. Must try harder Jordan. Why the lecture about economics and WW2. Is comprehension with you the same as arithmetic? Without the war which entailed the holocaust, Great Britain remained Great for another couple of decades at least which meant no Israel, effectively. I said that once already but you could not assimilate? "Without the intervening war AND all that it entailed " #104 Do you understand. No holocaust without WWII, they came as an inseparable package. It is facile in the extreme to imagine a war against the Nazis without a holocaust. This is another reminder to read before posting the same silly statements twice. "Most would be emigres from Europe wanted to go anywhere but Israel". #104 Without the war AND the inevitable holocaust GB would never have let them in to Israel in any case, in anything but the tiny numbers already proposed in the White Paper. Your posts just go to show all the reading in the world is useless without basic comprehension skills generally picked up in primary education.

The more you go on the more obvious it is you never studied history very much at all. Your posts do not reflect the history, merely your perversion of it. 600,000 is not 3-4 million(your absentia holocaust assumption). Much closer to a few hundred thousands. Then again Jewish virtual library says you exaggerate by over fifty thousand. Yes less than 550,000 in Israel in 1946. Must try harder Jordan. Why the lecture about economics and WW2. Is comprehension with you the same as arithmetic? Without the war which entailed the holocaust, Great Britain remained Great for another couple of decades at least which meant no Israel, effectively. I said that once already but you could not assimilate? "Without the intervening war AND all that it entailed " #104 Do you understand. No holocaust without WWII, they came as an inseparable package. It is facile in the extreme to imagine a war against the Nazis without a holocaust. This is another reminder to read before posting the same silly statements twice. "Most would be emigres from Europe wanted to go anywhere but Israel". #104 Without the war AND the inevitable holocaust GB would never have let them in to Israel in any case, in anything but the tiny numbers already proposed in the White Paper. Your assumptions are your fantasies. Learn to separate the two.

Arabs & their uncompromising attitude to the idea of a jewish state in a muslim region They started war after war in the hope it would get rid of Israel and each time they damaged their own cause. They rejected Balfour which wasn't even going to give jews a full state. It was going to be an arab majority state where jews would have the right to call a homeland and emigrate to and probably not many of them would have done. They rejected partition in 1947 which would have given the 49% of Palestine & no refugee situation arabs who were left in Israels borders would get Israeli citizenship. Today they are fighting for the remaining 22% of Palestine the rest occupied by Israel and there will never be a refugee return. We gave them Gaza instead of turning it into a terrorist entity now had to fight wars & is now under seige Also we must thank the good Ernest Bevan for his not being willing to compromise on accepting jewish refugees into Palestine led to Roosevelt support a jewish state

The Balfour Decleration didn't even offer the jews a binational state it was more of a right to go settle there and the jews loved it but the arabs didn't even though at that time zionism had not developed into a religious ideal. Most the zionists were pretty much a bunch of secular jews who had come from eastern Europe to escape the pogroms just looking for a safe haven to escape persecution. If the arabs had accepted Balfour zionism probably would have never developed into much. Right up until the 1930s the jews were more than satisfied with a binational one but then arab hostility grew and thinking changed and now nothing short of a jewish state would ever be acceptable. What the zionists of the late 19th century & early 20th century wanted is not acceptable today & never will be again. Liberman doesn't have Obamas gift for speech making but he is a patriot & some of his ideas are good ones Israel needs like demanding loyalty from arabs living here.

Google it. The Palestine Committee set up by the Foreign Office recommended that the reference to 'the claim' be omitted. The Allies had already noted the historical connection in the Treaty of Sèvres, but they had recognized no legal claim. They felt that whatever might be done for the Jewish people was based entirely on sentimental grounds. Further, they felt that all that was necessary was to make room for Zionists in Palestine, not that they should turn 'it', that is the whole country, into their home. Lord Balfour suggested an alternative which was accepted. Whereas recognition has thereby [i.e. by the Treaty of Sèvres] been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine, and to the [sentimental] grounds for reconstituting their National Home in that country ...[38]

A Jewish "State". It referred to a "Jewsish Homeland". And it specifically stated that the Indigenous inhabitants were not to be affected by this "Jewish Homeland" or was this Jewsish homeland to take over "All" of the territory. In any event, Britain as the state responibile for administering the Mandate changed the Borders as was their right to do. Moshe Arens is economical with the truth. No surprise there. Defending the indefensible is a tough road to hoe.

If Holocaust hadn't happened, most European Jews would have stayed comfortably in their homelands, instead of risking getting killed while colonizing and ethic-cleansing some faraway land. Only desperation pushed most European Jews. Zionist leaders were well aware of that, and profited from it as much as they could. Without Shoah, in Palestine there would only be a small minority of religious Jews concentrated in Jerusalem, and the tragic conflict that remains unsolved until our days would have never existed.

The British say the Mandate of palestine nothing more than a buffer zone between the Suez canal and the French who were stationed in Lebanon and Syria. When the french withdrew there last soldier from the region in 1947 then the British went on and left the mandate

Absent the Holocaust, the conditions never would have arisen that permitted the creation of a viable Jewish state. You could no more have had modern Israel without Hitler than you could have had it without Zionism.

Zionists always write as if the rest of the world are morons who cannot see thru the crap or are too lazy to read. But we are not so stupid and lazy goyim anymore. While it is true that historically massive propaganda succeeded in deceiving us for centuries, now, with the internet and global literacy, a new day truly has come. Now the old rules have changed. Now, the more nonsense hasbara the Zionists put out there, the more fed up everyone is, and the more justified backlash mounts, so that even Jews are getting tired of the embarrassment. Zionism is dragging down 3000 years of Jewish self-respect and achievement, and there is nothing that can stop it because insane people do not spontaneously stop being crazy.

disguise find so many pejorative things to say. I tell you that between 1890 and the 1920's families like mine ,flew, usually steerage, out of Russia and Poland to the US. The Holocaust clearly ended migration and so did antisemitism in the 1930's re the denial of entry of Jewish refugees all over the world, including the US.

We let it happen by turning a blind eye because of the holocaust, if you tried today you would be stopped. Thats why the world now would like to see Isreal treat the palestinian people right. Did we make a mistake in 1948 by thinking you would remember what it was like not to have a home land. Why don't you join forces, then you might be able to say we did it and not you.

Here in its entirety is everything Obama said about Israel and the Holocaust: "America's strong bonds with Israel are well known. This bond is unbreakable. It is based upon cultural and historical ties, and the recognition that the aspiration for a Jewish homeland is rooted in a tragic history that cannot be denied. Around the world, the Jewish people were persecuted for centuries, and anti-Semitism in Europe culminated in an unprecedented Holocaust. Tomorrow, I will visit Buchenwald, which was part of a network of camps where Jews were enslaved, tortured, shot and gassed to death by the Third Reich. Six million Jews were killed - more than the entire Jewish population of Israel today. Denying that fact is baseless, ignorant, and hateful. Threatening Israel with destruction - or repeating vile stereotypes about Jews - is deeply wrong, and only serves to evoke in the minds of Israelis this most painful of memories."

In the first place, by the UN's estimate there were not "a few hundred thousand" Jews living under the British Mandate in 46, but over 600,000 in 1945. Second, the collapse of the British mandate had really nothing to do with the Shoah, and everything to do with their fragile economy post WWII(or do you believe that they quit the Raj as well because of Treblinka) so it is fantasy to imagine that the Empire could have held on the in the Mid East "for many more years." Lastly, my figure of 3-4 million is based on a pretty straight forward calculation. The 3 million Jews in Poland tried desperately to leave emigrate even before the Nazi invasion -- including to the Mandate -- but were denied access. Likewise, Soviet Jews were also trying to emigrate with the same results. Since no one would take them before the Shoah (or likewise) absent the Shoah, it is reasonable to assume they would have gone to the one place that would have had them, Israel.

But for the British appeasing the Moslems (supposedly, so as not to inflame the Moslems of India)the state of Israel would have been created much ealier,probably by 1937, thus precluding Israel as a place of refuge during Shoah. Many Jews were murdered simply because they could not obtain a visa. In addition, the British kept Jews imprisoned in Cyprus until AFTER the War of Independence, out of fear that the additonal Jews might tip the balance of the war against the Arabs. Only when the British realized that they were about to lose India anyway, THEN they decided to give up the Mandate (one side of the Suez Canal). But for the Holocaust and the British, Israel would now have probably double the population.

...the holocaust helped it alot. Many Europeans & Americans believe it (Israel) was formed as a result of Germany's treatments of jews.

'no shoah, 3-4 million self governing Jews living between the Jordan and the Sea' Only a few hundred thousands were living there in 1946. Your assumption that without the Nazi persecution/WWII a few million would have been there is once again, wild. Most would be emigres from Europe wanted to go anywhere but Israel. Prior to the war, the 1939 White Paper stated that an independent Arab state would be created within 10 years, and that Jewish immigration was to be limited to 75,000 in sum for the next five years, after which it was to cease altogether. So your 3-4 million is a fantasy figure plucked out of who knows where. You are also showing some ignorance as to the state of play regarding Jewish immigration to Palestine so perhaps it is you who should read a little more history? Then came the shoah and international will for a sovereign state of Israel. Without the intervening war and all that it entailed, the British would have likely remained dominant in the Mid East for many more years rather than a radically weakened colonial power and they were not inclined toward a Jewish state prior to the war

Remember, the Czech arms purchases in ;48 weren't tanks or heavy artillery, but almost exclusively infantry weapons (planes were purchased, but most arrived later, and there were no militarily significant air operations during '48). As pointed out before, one would be hard pressed to find any group with cash in the second half of the 20th century, who couldn't find someone to sell them guns. Assuming that the Jewish state would have been the lone exception (especially when the world was awash in munitions post-WWII) is fanciful at best.

"I guess Israel experienced the same kind of difficulties after its creation, so Czech arms deal should be considered help, even if paid in hard cash." Precisely.

Does Japan "aid" the US by letting up buy cars they produce? Does the US "aid" the world by selling them ipods? The Jews of the mandate purchased arms before the Shoah and would almost certainly have been able to purchase them in their absence. Consider for a moment: how many groups with hard currency have ever wanted for someone to sell them guns? As for wild assumptions, the world over in the post colonial period, pretty much every defacto state received dejre recognition. The "wild assumption" is to assume that the Jewish state would have been the exception to this near universal rule. Again, no shoah, 3-4 million self governing Jews living between the Jordan and the Sea -- pretty hard to imagine how that goes "unrecognized."

Arms paid in hard cash can be a help. Israel itself helped Estonia in 1990ies. Everybody agreed that Estonia did need an army but no one wanted to sell real arms - they were afraid to annoy Russia. Then Israel agreed to sell arms to Estonia, of course because of hard currency and not beautiful blue Nordic eyes. Next day after disclosing the deal every country - even Russia said, "So you needed arms? Which ones, when, and how many?! Why didn't you just say so?!" But Estonia already had all rifles, machine guns and ammunition for the next decade. I guess Israel experienced the same kind of difficulties after its creation, so Czech arms deal should be considered help, even if paid in hard cash.

as obtuse.'aid' as in help, Jordan. Armaments to a sovereign state as opposed to a 'guerilla group'. Please don't stoop to pedantism. As for Israel receiving post facto recognition. Thatr is a wild assumption on your part. More likely, due to the vehement opposition of those Arabs who lived in Palestine and the surrounding region would have been armamants supplied to Arabs, after all-prior to the holocaust Jews received little help or sympathy from the west.Hence the whole substance of my first post.

The idea of a state for the Jews was conceived by Herzl - but would never have come to fruition if not for the horrors of the Holocaust and the masses of destitute survivors with nowhere to go nor wanted by anyone. This not withstanding the Balfour recommendation, which in any event only called for a "homeland". David

Did the Holocaust Play a Role in the Establishment of the State of Israel? http://www.history.ucsb.edu/projects/holocaust/Research/Proseminar/tomerkleinman.htm

The Czech arms were not "aid" but were paid for with hard currency. You really should check your facts. As for your notion that Israel would have been a "unilaterally declared entity," that would have pretty much made Israel the same as every other post colonial state in the period, nearly all of which received recognition after they came into defacto existence.

in the context of this article, then yes, ancient history does matter...IT IS the central point of this article. jerusalem in ancient or modern times is always thought of as the jewish land..the jewish capital. PERIOD. As for all this other fluff and banter, if israel was RE-created in part because of the holocaust, notice that all world powers chose the land of israel precisely where it is today to put this state..not ethiopia, not alaska, not greenland...why did they choose this place? because it was ALWAYS known as the jewish homeland. as for walter in anchorage, what a waste of a life you obviously are leading...you are a shameless jew hater...your posts are pure drivel...it's quite obvious you are a skinhead neo nazi punk. The land of Israel will ALWAYS be jewish walter...ALWAYS. But the land YOU HYPOCRITICALLY LIVE ON was never yours to begin with....so why dont you move your fat neo nazi ass back to germany or austria...you'll be more welcome there...

Walid Khalidi (not Rashid Khalidi, whom I cited in an earlier post) agrees with Morris that during the period of the forties I mentioned, the Mufti was "unquestionably the paramount Palestinian leader" (quoted in Kimmerling and Migdal, Palestinians, 1993, p. 136).

I am always wary of folks who suggest one 'reads more history'. It's as if they really mean, read 'my' type of history. That France supported Israel is not in dispute. That this proves your thesis, it clearly does not. The aid I am referring to is arms and munitions and much of it came from the Czechs.In any case, France was suporting a legitimate sovereign state, not a unilaterally declared entity. Without the holocaust, that (it is my contention) is all Israel would likely have been, if even that.

the borders of israel were FURTHER defined by the mandatory power. who then stole 78% for the kingdom of transjordan who are not mentioned atall san remo ! NO OTHER DEFINITION HAS EVER BEEN LEGALLY PPRODUCED ! the article 181 has no legal effect whatsoever !

"He had an extremely important role as a Palestinian leader in the forties, as I stated earlier." DZweifler No this was what you said earlier:- "The Mufti was the Palestinian national movement`s leader in the 1920s, 1930s, and 1940s" Sloppy and false. Haj Amin al-Husseini was removed from office in 1939.

Trying to convince Israelis and Americans that history is not all about them is rather difficult but I will try. The result of WWI was the dissolution of the multinational empires into nation states. However these nation states were themselves heterogeneous, e.g. Romania had substantial Hungarian and German minorities. The result of WWII was the homogenisation of these nation states either by 'ethnic cleansing' (the Holocaust) or population transfers. Since Jews were a minority in every country, the obvious solution was to create a country for them. Rather than doing so at the expense of any of the European states, it was done in the Middle East since the Arabs didn't have any say in the matter. I realise that this does not accord with the founding myths of Israel but then the Puritans in Massachusetts were religious bigots who burned dissenters at the stake.

The League of Nations declarations are available to read online. They do not state more than "the establishment of a Jewish homeland". Nothing about borders nor precise location. Certainly nothing about "both sides of the Jordan River". The borders of that homeland were only specified in UN resolution 181 of 1947.

The Arab Higher Committee was the Mufti's "handmaiden" (Kimmerling and Migdal, Palestinians, 1993, p. 143), and in the 1940s that committee under his leadership engaged in planning and coordination of Palestinian Arabs during the 1948 War and otherwise (ibid., and Kramer, History of Palestine, 2008, p. 310). He had an extremely important role as a Palestinian leader in the forties, as I stated earlier.

Please read "The Holocaust Is Over" by Avraham Burg, former speaker of the Knesset. An excellent examination of the negative impact the fascination with the Holocaust has on Israeli society.

Zionism destabilized the Middle East beginning after WWI. Unfortunately the UK promised the same land to both Jews and Arabs. However there was a rational process of acquisition where Arabs were paid for land. After WWII, the large influx of death camp survivors intensified pressures. The UN, out of empathy for what the Jews had endured in Europe, gave them a country in an Arab land. This would not have happened except for the guilt of the USA, UK and other western nations for having neglected the Jews plight under Nazi Germany.

Ibsen's claim that absent the Shoah Israel would have been denied "crucial foriegn aid" again represents a faulty understanding of history. The arms Israel used during the '48 war were paid for with hard currency. French support for Israel after '48 was based on strategic considerations and certainly had nothing to do with anything regarding the Shoah (or the French wouldn't have abandoned Israel in its moment of need in '67). The only aid Israel received were the reparations from Germany, which didn't begin until 1952, and paled before the value of the human capital lost in the Shoah.

"We have pulled the Shoah out of its historical context," he writes, "and turned it into a plea and generator for every deed. All is compared to the Shoah, dwarfed by the Shoah and therefore all is allowed – be it fences , sieges ... curfews, food and water deprivation or unexplained killings. All is permitted because we have been through the Shoah and you will not tell us how to behave." By Avrum Burg, orthodox Jew, former lieutenant in the paratroops, former Speaker of the Knesset (Labor), son of Yosef Burg, founder of Israel's National Religious Party. http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/avraham-burg-israels-new-prophet-979732.html

...my friend, we are not living in 900 bc or 1200 ad, we are living now. Now, Jerusalem is part Arab city and they have their rights to their mosque and have their capital in the Eastern quarter. History doesn't count in this case.

But its also wrong to keep being victims of the Holocaust and victimisers of the Palestinians. Its wrong to keep using the experience of the Holocaust as a justification for settler occupation, breaking our laws and persisting in accountability - even to ourselves. We have abused the Holocaust to the point where the memory of its victims and survivors have become perverted and cheapened.

Somthing bad things happen to people,but good things also come. Israel is the result of Holocaust no one can deny!.

If Arabs had friends at that time says Durson Jews would be still in the sea. The problem however, is that they did have friends, but, were the bad guys. And so they do now. Palestinians are in the "terrorist side" of the equation and that is not going to change now. The palestinians friends are the Iranians ( the new Nazis) and its proxies ( Hizabalah). Even Obama has already decided who the enemies of the United States are???? And those are not Israel..... Isn't that true Miss Durson? Are you frustrated about that???? We are glad then.

The world would never have accepted the birth of this state of Israel without the Holocaust. I even doubt that the state of Israel would have the same attraction without the holocaust.

all this back and forth about modern history..what about ancient history? fact is, obama messed up..and the question has to be asked, why? was it by design, or ignorance? I'm guessing it's the narrative he learned from men like khalidi, said and wright. when people in the year 900 BC OR 500 BC thought of jerusalem, or in the year 300 AD thought of jerusalem, or in the year 1200 AD thought of jerusalem....they thought of the land of the jews. someone turn off the lights now, were done.

He made no 'Jewish' decisions only 'colonial' ones? Fine, but he WAS Jewish and he appointed the Mufti and he was a dedicated ZIONIST. In 1915 he submitted a memorandum suggesting that Palestine become a home for the Jewish people. "He had been raised in an Orthodox Jewish home, and although he subsequently ceased practicing, he remained intensely interested in Jewish communal problems" Jewish Virtual Library.

Reference your comments on Ben Gurion: The highest body of MAPAI, at the time the leading party among the Jewish population in Palestine, convened a congress in Zurich of its supporters from Palestine and other countries from July 29 to August 7, 1937. At that congress the expulsion of the Palestinians, under the euphemism of "transfer," became MAPAI's policy, planned and supported by most of its highest-ranking leaders and opposed on moral grounds by none. In the proceedings of the congress, edited by David Ben Gurion and published in Tel Aviv in 1938, Ben Gurion commented: "It seems to me unnecessary to explain the fundamental and deep difference between expulsion and transfer." David Ben Gurion, ed., Darkhei Mediniuteinu (The Ways of our Policy: A Full Report about the World Convention of Yehud Po'alei Zion, C.S..) (Tel Aviv: Federation of Po'alei Zion Publication, 1938), as quoted by Israel Shahak, "A History of the Concept of 'Transfer' in Zionism," Journal of Palestine Studies, volume 18, No. 3, Spring 1989, issue 71, pp. 23-24. That expulsion and transfer were identical terms is shown by David Ben Gurion's private remarks in a letter he wrote in the same year, 1937, to his son, in which he remarked that when a Jewish state was created, "We will expel the Arabs and take their places." Shabtai Teveth, Ben Gurion and the Palestinians, p. 189, as quoted by Michael Palumbo, The Palestinian Catastrophe (London: Quartet Books, 1987), p. 32. Ten years later, in his diary entry for December 19, 1947, David Ben Gurion wrote even more crudely: "In each attack, a decisive blow should be struck, resulting in the destruction of homes and the expulsion of the population." Ben Gurion's Diary, volume 1, December 19, 1947, as quoted by Michael Palumbo, The Palestinian Catastrophe, p. 40. Again, on April 4, 1948, Ben Gurion told a delegation from his MAPAI party: "We shall enter the vacated villages and settle in them," Ben Gurion's Archives (Sde Boker), Mapai Protocols, 4 April, 1948, as quoted by Palumbo, p. 143. After the Declaration of Independence of Israel on May 14, 1948, Ben Gurion implemented design of expelling the Palestinian Arabs and stated: "We must do everything in our power to ensure that they never return." Who's Who in Israel 1972, (Tel Aviv: Bronfman & Cohen Publishers, 1972), p. 51.

he bent over backwards to become " a decent chap" and all of his decisions were colonial office and not jewish!

"The Mufti was the Palestinian national movement`s leader in the 1920s, 1930s, and 1940s" Haj Amin al-Husseini was booted out of office in 1939. When he met Hitler, in 1941 he wasn't actually an official representative of the Palestinian people. So your assertion that he was so in the 1940's is false. As an interesting aside, the Mufti was appointed by a Jewish chap, one Herbert Samuel, who also created the Supreme Muslim Council.

Of course it doesn't matter now because Israel is a really-exisiting state with a populations of 5 million Jews and 2 million Palestinians . Bit if Arens isa going to start up with this again, then let's be accurate.

Theodore Hertzl predicted that the state of Israel would be created within 50 years at the first Zionist congress in Basel in 1898. His prediction was recorded 40 years before the holocaust. Arabs were a non-issue back in those days as oil was not an important commodity yet.

The most that can be claimed is that the Holocaust accelerated the creation of Israel. Jewish Palestinians had already created the fundamentals of a Jewish State and were ready to do so when the situation forced them to act. Far more important than the Holocaust per se was WWII which so bankrupted Britain that it could not afford to hold on to Palestine. WWII also created a humanitarian crisis in Europe, of which the Holocaust was just a part, which led to massive emigration. Palestine was one of MANY regions and nations which absorbed this emigration. WW II, not the Holocaust, forced the creation of Israel before the Zionist leadership in Palestine would have chosen, not the Holocaust. Mr. Arens has addressed the situation well.

But we did NOT WAIT 2000 years just to go to Uganda! That is the point

Oh yea Mickey what about the billions of dollars the US has given them as well as the EU ( which Britain) is part of. I think the Palestinians have an easier time than the Jews. Lets not mention a seat at the UN, the Jews of Palestine did not have that.

"Ben Gurion said he had aspirations for the West Bank but did NOT say he wanted to take any of it by force in fact he said Arab farmers should NOT be moved.He opposed settlements even where Jews had lived for millenia and had been ethnically cleansed and murdered. He reportedly said give it back or it will corrupt you. Rather a perceptive gentleman." I totally agree. In answer to your other question, you have never called me an anti-semite and you have always been polite and rational, which is why hope I have always been polite and rational with you. However, I, like a lot of other people on here who are critical of Israel, have repeatedly been called an anti-semite by people without your standards. Just yesterday 17 told me that 99.9% of criticisms of Israel were motivated by anti-semitism or greed for Arab money! His post will still be online somewhere. I think it's reasonable to assume he doesn't class me in his 0.1% and he's never accused me of taking Arab money!

Have you been to South Africa lately? It is quickly falling into the abyss as other African nations.

Moshe Arens does not seem to understand that Obama applies a completely amoral functional approach to Isreal and the Jewish people. According to him, history and current affairs are one continuum of relative "usefulness" in his foreign policy application. Thus he can group the murderous Hamas organization with the right wing Likud members who do not agree with him, as he did last week. The US has never had such an "immoral" president. Given the past traditional committment to liberty and human rights that has been a cornerstone in US foreign policy, it is shameful and a disgrace to see this development. The last leader of a major western democracy to adopt this approach was Neville Chamberlain in the late 1930's.

all Palestine included large parts of Jordan no matter when it was given away. Jabotinsky died in 1940 in NY hardly the spokesman for 48.Israeli aspirations Ben Gurion said he had aspirations for the West Bank but did NOT say he wanted to take any of it by force in fact he said Arab farmers should NOT be moved.He opposed settlements even where Jews had lived for millenia and had been ethnically cleansed and murdered. He reportedly said give it back or it will corrupt you. Rather a perceptive gentleman. Dershowitz is an authority on law, his arguments in law are not dismissed in law just derrided by those those interest it is to do so but cannot come up with the legal arguments. Ahmadinejad is an authority on what he wants to achieve.Despite the studious evasions by some,he has been at war with Israel by proxy for years at little risk to Iran and his intentions go beyond Israel,his major hurdle. PS. In all our exchanges how many times have I called you an antisemite?

Israel was noyt established by Zuionist Jews. It was established as a legal entity among the nations of teh world by the United Nations. Clearly the UN created Israel when it did as a refuge for survivors of the Holocaust. Yes, there were other factors that led to the establishment of a Jewish state in the middle east but the Holocaust cemented the endeavor.

This is a brilliant treatise by Arens. It is a Must Read by Obama, his administration, the EU and the rest of the world. It is time to confront and sweep away the tide of Jihadism and AntiSemitism.

Dershowitz already showed his cards with the 'traitor to the Jewish people' jibe. He should not be taken seriously.He should be dismissed or ignored. Goldstone did however debate Dore Gold who is at least less prone to resorting to personal insults than Dershowitz. He should not be expected to debate every loudmouth apologist for Israel or else he would never have time for anything else. Dershowitz merely re iterates IDF bullet points and has no special insight on these matters. Dershowitz is not even an international jurist so has little pedigree where International Law is concerned.

1 I said "Zionism`s plan of taking over Palestine for the Jewish people" That's right isn't it? Here's Jabotinsky helpfully poitning out that he wanted both sides of the Jordan, and by that time Trans-Jordan was separate from Palestine. 2 Sure the Arab league wanted to wipe Israel out in 1948, but that doesn't make them responsible for the Holocaust. 3 I said, that both Derwhowizt and Ahmedinejad may make some valid points and if I hear Ahmedninejad make threats that sound real, as opposed ot hot air, I will listen. However, frankly I don't value the opinion of either of them on Israel. I'm surprised an intelligent guylike you does.

vast majority. 2.The Mufti was not the only one advocating genocide.The Arab League announced their own war of annihilation comparable to the actions of the Mongol hordes. PS Ahmadinejad as ruler of Iran needs to be listened to.When he says whoever rules the ME rules the world,Sunnis on the ground understand,accademics divorced from reality do not. Deshowitz as a law professor needs to be disproved not dismissed out of hand,a cheap cop out.

vast majority. 2.The Mufti was not the only one advocating genocide.The Arab League announced their own war of annihilation comparable to the actions of the Mongol hordes. PS Ahmadinejad as ruler of Iran needs to be listened to.When he says whoever rules the ME rules the world,Sunnis on the ground understand,accademics divorced from reality do not. Deshowitz as a law professor needs to be disproved not dismissed out of hand,a cheap cop out.

Arens is right that the Zionist movement preceeded the Holocaust and was in some respects independent of it, but he ignores two critical facts: 1) until the Holocaust, Zionism was a decidedly minority position among Diaspora Jews and 2) without the Holocaust, support among the international community for the establishment of the state of Israel would have been considerably less.

Perhaps you need to read the posts, including your own, on Haaretz, which has provided perhaps an unprecedented opportunity for criticism of the "host" nation by a major, mainstream newspaper, 24/7. Yet you make an issue of DIFFICULTY in criticizing Israel? How about incredible ease amd regularity in criticizing? How many posts do you have on this thread alone with just the click of a mouse? Did I call you an antisemite? Have you been deluged with such accusations here for your criticisms? Yet you claim it happens every time someone criticizes Israel. Earth to Michael.

After WW1 Britain and France took unto themselves the right to determine the fate of the non-Turkish parts of the defunct Ottoman Empire. The Brits had promised independence to various Arabs in return for their assistance against the Turks but then reneged on the deal. Balfour et al had no moral right to offer a Jewish homeland in Palestine.

the Holocaust as the driving cause for Israel,thats the Arab/Obama line. Herzl did not mention it.People leave comfortable existences in the West TODAY and move to Israel.Pogroms in Arab countries also made people leave. In September 1941, the Nazis began using gassing vans--trucks loaded with groups of people who were locked in and asphyxiated by carbon monoxide. These vans were used until the completion of the first death camp, Chelmno, which began operations in late 1941. Killing started well before the deportations from the Umshlagplatz began with the Gross-aktion Warschau, part of the countrywide Operation Reinhard. Between Tisha B'Av (July 23) and Yom Kippur (September 21) of 1942, about 254,000 Ghetto residents (or at least 300,000 by different accounts)[4] were sent to Treblinka and murdered there.[5] The Warsaw ghetto was NOT the first place where Jews were congregated to be executed.

"Why have you failed to provide evidence that every criticism of Israel brings the antisemitic "tag," as you claimed?" Do you actually read the posts on Haaretz?! It's standard operating practice to accuse critics of Israel of being anti-semitic. Often the whole of Europe is accused of being anti-semitic because it's not sufficiently pro-Zionist, and of ocurse, now even the Israeli government is in on the act. Swedes and Turks have recently been accused of being anti-semitic because of a stupid newspaper story and criticism of Cast Lead. Recently Obama was accused of being anti-semitic. Even Bibi was accsue of being anti-semitic becaise of the settlement freeze!

You studied history? Maybe, maybe not. Between 1922 and 1948 I spot a glaring weakness!!!

All of your posts cry out for some basic familiarity with historical fact. The Mufti was the Palestinian national movement's leader in the 1920s, 1930s, and 1940s (Morris, One State, Two States, 2009, p. 105; 1948: First Arab Israeli War, 2008, p. 408). Is it a blood libel to point this out? Why have you failed to provide evidence that every criticism of Israel brings the antisemitic "tag," as you claimed? Your accusation is the libel unsupported by evidence.

Why do Israeli politicians refer to the Holocaust at every opportunity to justify the existence of Israel?

That's precisely the point I'm making. You can't use one rogue Arab leader's involvemen with Hitler to say that the Arabs were heavily involved in the Holocaust and imply that Arab resistance to Zionism's plan of taking over Palestine for the Jewish people is akin to genocidal Nazism.

The jews invented many ideas practical and theoretical and its time for israel to be recognized in secure and strong borders by all nations . Two billion islamic people can relieve the gaza congestion and the west bank is booming economically.The danger of a descent into a area of radioactive mush must be averted.

ny suggestion otherwise is an expression of the desire to change world history to fit the Zionist dream of Eretz Israel.

Do you want to provide evidence of "using it ["the anti-semitism tag"] every time someone criticises Israel"? Remember, Michael, it is a tag applied "every time"; or is that just a libel you are comfortable with? As to YOUR claim of blood libel increasingly used: Were the U.S. and Soviet Union in on the blood libel, and way back in 1947? "Both looked with disfavor on the Palestinians because of the Mufti's years in Berlin" (Khalidi, Iron Cage, 2007, p. 128).

look up 1922 mandate for a jewish state ! no holocaust no un !!!

From Wikipedia: "In 1937, Eichmann was sent to the British Mandate of Palestine with his superior Herbert Hagen to assess the possibilities of massive Jewish emigration from Germany to Palestine. They landed in Haifa but could obtain only a transit visa so they went on to Cairo. There, they met Feival Polkes, an agent of the Haganah, who discussed with them the plans of the Zionists and tried to enlist their assistance in facilitating Jewish emigration from Europe." Obviously I'm not saying the Holocaust should be blamed on Zionism. The Nazis are responsible for the Holocaust. However, Zionists who try to suggest Arabs played a significant role in the Holocaust are playing a potentially dangerous game because people could probably argue that Zionism, on some level, promoted the idea of separating European Jews from non-Jews.

michael, the balfour declaration is here to stay whether you or your muslims affectionates understand and accept it ! as a fact it predates the holocaust by many years ! this gave the jewiste about 1% of the ottoman empire and the rest to arabs they will have to be content with 99%!!!

For thousands of years Jews yearned for a homeland in their biblical lands. While the zionist movement started long before Nazis came to power, the post-war mass immigration into Palestine, the fact that the UN partition came just 2ys after WW2 ended and that Israel unilaterally declared independence the following year is clearly a causal link between the war and Israel. The holocaust was the catalyst that made Israel happen, the opportunity that was seized the fulfill the Jewish dream. It seems silly to say otherwise.

Israel could have tried to establish a state by force of arms anyway, but such a state would have struggled to survive without essential foreign aid, aid probably denied without the UN legitimacy. Certainly Arens is not even considering this in his calculations. Even after the holocaust most Jews from the camps wished to settle anywhere but Palestine, but many were denied that choice.

"one morning you will wake up and accept the balfour declaration !" Er, Vicky, my post wasn't anything to do with the Balfour declaration. It was about smearing Pals over the Holocaust. Also, somehow I don't think the world and history is waiting with bated breath to see if I Michael, accept the Balfour Declaration. It happened. It's led to huge conflict and maybe wasn't such a great idea, but I have absolutely nothing against Jews living in the Holy Land, and I accept Israel within its pre-1967 borders. I know that's not enough for you bercause you want to ethnically cleanse Arabs and kick them out across the Jordan. Well, Vicky you know where you can stick that - right up your San Remo!

In my native Romania Jews were greeted everywhere in the streets,shops and other public places with "Jidanii la Palestina" "Jews go to Palestine".In some places they were forced to wear the yellow star of David on their clothing so that they could be easily identified.They ended up loosing their jobs,businesses,homes and many their lives.Some attempted to flee to Palestine but were stopped and sent back by the Brits and ended up being killed by the nazis and their allies.Fact is:if Israel would have existed then most Jews could have been saved.Also it's unlikely that Israel would have existed today without the Holocaust.Most Jews would have assimilated in their host countries if left to their own devices.Those countries though hated,discriminated against them,deported and killed them and now they wonder why they want to have their own country

that is the people who lived there, Muslim, Christian and most of the Jews.

First uprising was probably in Yugoslavia in 1941. There were already partisan divisions in 1944. 13. SS Hanjar division was formed of Bosnian muslims and SS Skenderbeg division of Albanians from Kosovo.

one morning you will wake up and accept the balfour declaration ! until then keep posting why the world doesnt run according to michaels anti israel stance |

Nearly all the Moslems in the SS were from India.

They would never have gone to Palestine if Ben Gurion & Co. had not forced the US NOT to issue visas to the European Jews.

I very much doubt the state of Israel would have arisen as quickly as it did without the Holocaust. Ofcourse most nations of the world were shocked and guilt-ridden after the Holocaust and it helped desintegrate Brittain's rule very quickly which in effect led to Israel's independence. Also, after WW2 remaining European Jews understandably did not want to stay on that continent and seeked soulace in Israel.

As much as you would love to, you cannot blame the Holocaust on the Palestinians. Yes the Mufti was a Nazi-sympathizer. But that doesn't mean every Palestinian was. If you do some research you'd find that the zionists already in Israel were not that keen on helping out their fellow European Jews in need. And it's not like Israel has caused no Palestinian casualties or damage to Palestinian territory.

The anti-semitism tag has been so worn out, by using it every time someone criticises Israel that Zionists are incerasingly using blood libel instead. So Goldstone and critics of Cast Lead were accused of a blood libel. Yet Israel's fans are perfectly happy to smear other people. A tiny number of Palestinians played an equally tiny role in Hitler's war machine, yet to read some of the comments here, you'd think the SS was full of Pals running concentration camps: "The Palestinians should be forced to pay reparations for their not insignificant role in the the perpetration of the Holocaust." "These facts and the Mufti`s push for the White Paper immigration restrictions proves that one of the biggest root causes of the Israel-Palestinian conflict is due to the Palestinian leadership`s horrific role in the Holocaust."

the extermination camps were set up and functioning by 1941-42, before the warsaw ghetto uprising. since six million jews were annihilated, they most certainly could not make immigration to israel.

your article is correct in all respects. however, you will not convince any of the usual jew haters whatever their background might be.

Several claims made here are simply false. Jews in Poland, even before the Nazi invasion wanted OUT. The same became true of the Jews in Hungary and had been true of Jews in the USSR for some time. The problem was that no one would accept them. Had there been a Jewish state, they would indeed have fled Europe (just as they had wished to before the war) and would have ended up in the new Jewish state. Sorry, Jews didn't want to remain even before the Shoah, it just left fewer of them to leave...

Palestinian villages and wiped them from history in 48 with no intention of letting the civilian refugees return, when are you going to realise there are two sides to this conflict? Israel needs to recognise it's history as well....

Instead of welcoming the Jews with open arms like the Ottoman Sultan in 1492 into a so-called "one-state Palestine", the Mufti decided to collaborate with the Nazis, set up a Bosnian SS unit, and discuss a future extermination camp in Nablus. These facts and the Mufti's push for the White Paper immigration restrictions proves that one of the biggest root causes of the Israel-Palestinian conflict is due to the Palestinian leadership's horrific role in the Holocaust.

During that time, many Jews were not even Zionists. World War II forced many Jews to flee. Israel wouldn't have had a huge influx of Jews if Jews didn't feel insecure in Europe at that time. Otherwise, more would have stayed in Europe. Christians didn't really want to stay in Europe let alone Jews. People were fleeing. Immigration by Jews increased with the holocaust.

The Warsaw Ghetto is significant in history because it was the starting point for Nazi plans to exterminate the Jews not because it was a symbol of freedom. That is pure reflections from today onto the past and not the other way around. Turning a catastrophic defeat into a victory takes a colossal sense of delusion, the type of delusion many religious people suffer from. Also the claim that the Holocaust had nothing to do with the founding of Israel is facile. Without the Holocaust most European Jewry would not have been inspired to leave their homes for the Middle East. This is the truth. Why would they? The Holocaust and persecution drove them to the Levant. But if Israelis insist on their alternate theory then they can no longer cling to the Holocaust for justification for the State of Israel and for many things besides. You can't have it both ways.

The Palestinians should be forced to pay reparations for their not insignificant role in the the perpetration of the Holocaust. Not to mention the staggering amount of terror perpetrated against innocent Israelis and Jews abroad (not including the wars started by Arab nations over 5 times the population of tiny Israel). Not to mention the numerous pogroms throughout the Middle East which was a direct result of Arab/Palestinian hostility to Jewish nationalism. Not to mention the Jewish refugees from Arab lands (outnumbering Palestinian "refugees" - forced to move 20 miles east). Oh, and how can we forget over a millenia of living in dhimmitude as second-class citizens...

Absent the shoah, there would have been more Jews living under the mandate when the British evacuated, not fewer. The dejure recognition of the State was fine, but it was its defacto victory in '48 that ensured its continued existence. That victory would have been more likely absent the Shoah, not less. In other words, no Shoah, the state has 3-4 million Jews at its inception, instead of 800,000. Israel is stronger with its murdered brethren, and still wins in '48.

Moshe Arens has got it exactly right. It is quite surprising how little people actually know and understand about the issue. The 1947 partition plan was suggested in a smaller format already before the war by the Peel Commission. The Peel Commission already knew that the Arabs will never accept Jewish presence and partition was inevitable. It was the Palestinian Jews who fought the Independence war and the Holocaust survivors were able to participate only after the declaration of independence. The western world (including US) actually put an arms embargo in place, which was detrimental to Israel, not the Arabs. Trans-Jordania was in fact armed and led by the British directly against the Jewish state. The State of Israel came to existence only because the Jews won the war. The UN partition resolution had only one effect. It caused the British to leave. First 4 talkbacks: Israel will exist beyond many western European countries (turned to Moslem countries).

Your comparison to South Africa is accurate in a lot of ways, but it comes with a warning. When the settlers gave up control of South Africa, they did it with an abundance of malice. Many whites left and said "if we can't have a perfect white utopia, we are going to leave a grievously flawed black hell for those who forced us out". It is not a question of whether Israel's rabid wing will yield. The question is how much blood, and whose, it will take to shake some land from their frothy teeth.

-the Faisal-Weizmann Agreement amongst many others. -The Jews who live continuously there for millenia despite your pogroms. The Germans wanted to get rid of the Jews To appease your brothers the Brits severly limited Jewish immigration to Palestine( White Paper). When the Nazis saw they could not get rid of the Jews by emigration they used the concentration camps and roving SS death squads. The Brits got their reward. Moslem SS divisions raised by the Mufti of Jerusalem.

and their brothers. The last time being when Arafat the Egyptian rejected the Clinton plan. Did you read that?

The foundations for the state of Israel were laid well before the Holocaust and the British debated partitioning a partition of the territory during the 1930s. All the major functioning institutions of the future Israeli state were in place by the late 1930s, including the political, military, and labor organizational structures. The map of Jewish settlement at that time tracks closely to the map of the future state, although some Jewish areas were lost in the War of Independence (parts of Jerusalem, Gush Etzion, etc), and other areas ended up in the state. In short, it would have happened with or without the Holocaust. The reality that the Zionists had essentially established the working framework of a functional state inside the British mandate can provide a useful lesson to those Palestinians who are interested in establishing such a state in the West Bank and Gaza.

The Jews needed an unprecedented amount of western support to gain a toe hold in Palestine. This would not have been forthcoming without the holocaust. America and other nations were only partially motivated by sympathy. The larger reason is that they did not want these thousands of displaced Jews and they refused to alter immigration quotas to let them in. Giving them what many wanted, the beginnings of Israel, seemed like a fine solution for everybody, except the Palestinians. The Palestinians had no international supporters at that time, as they do now. If they had, the European Jews would likely still be at sea.

THIS MAN IS A REAL HERO OF THE HISTORY OF THE JEWISH STATE.G-D BLESS YOU

It was the dream of the commanders of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising that Jews and Arabs should live in peace in a Palestine where both communities had equal rights. Mordechai Anielewicz supported a bi-national state. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashomer_Hatzair Edelman supported Palestinian armed resistance to the Israelis. http://www2.jewishsolidarity.info/files/Marek%20Edelman_Letter.doc Their heroism is the true legacy of Jewish humanism and righteousness. They were truly a light unto nations. To mention their names in the same breadth as Netanyahu or Avigdor Leiberman is to besmirch their example.

independent India, Israel, and many other nations, way into 1960s and 1970s, a few as democracies, but most as dictatorships.

The jews of Europe received no help from Washington, London or the Vatican, and they were left to fend for themselves. Deja vu, the Palestinians are receiving no help from Washington, London and the Vatican.

The STATE of Israel was created by Harry Truman and was a product of American Hubris.... Domestic Politics...and Holocaust Guilt... and it was a monstrous crime against the people of Palistine...and there will not be peace in the area or the world until it a secular state with one man and one vote...just like South Africa.

" the symbol of man's spirit that cannot be suppressed, whose essence is the fight for freedom, for the right to live, and the right to exist." This is how every palestinian feels about himself.

of European Jewry and the plans by the Zionist movement was as a result that at that time, Palestine, would be the only sanctuary from Anti-Semitism experienced more overtly in the late 1800's to end of WWII on that continent. And indeed, the Holocaust was to prevent this development of returning for refuge to the Holy Land - irrelevant whether it was west and east of the Jordan river. Like Arens simply states, " The reservoir of Jewish immigrants to Palestine was decimated". The Mufti allied with the Nazis to prevent any majority. Unrest in regions where Jews lived in Arab countries also surfaced. Thus it's important to commemorate the Holocaust on that date of liberation. However, the current Palestinian-Israeli territorial dispute is separate from this sad narrative and requires a fair resolution to two-states side by side as intended in 1947 with the Balfour Declaration, which the Israeli leadership agreed.

It was just a naive notion that all the Arabs needed was a little public respect and things would get going. Obama did not understand ME politics. Hardly anybody does. Complex and primitive at once. He is learning. He realizes he did more damage than good. A mistake he will not make again.

Just as bad: while in Cairo talking about "Arab tolerance" he never mentioned the 80,000 Egyptian Jewish refugees, nor the other Jews forced to flee Islamic countries.

I am suprised to find it on Ha'aretz.

scared of the truth

Theodor Herzl (1860-1904), the founder of modern Zionism, recognized that anti-Semitism would further his cause, the creation of a separate state for Jews. To solve the Jewish Question, he maintained ?we must, above all, make it an international political issue.?[1]Herzl wrote that Zionism offered the world a welcome ?final solution of the Jewish question.?[2]In his ?Diaries?, page 19, Herzl stated ?Anti-Semites will become our surest friends, anti-Semitic countries our allies.? The Transfer Agreement (which promoted the emigration of German Jews to Palestine) implemented in 1933 and abandoned at the beginning of WWII is an important example of the cooperation between Hitler?s Germany and international Zionism. [11] Through this agreement, Hitler?s Third Reich did more than any other government during the 1930?s to support Jewish development in Palestine and further the Zionist goals. Hitler and the Zionists had a common goal: to create a world Jewish Ghetto as a solution to the Jewish Question.

Zionism was supported by the German SS and Gestapo.[3] [4] [5] [6] Hitler himself personally supported Zionism.[7] [8] During the 1930?s, in cooperation with the German authorities, Zionist groups organized a network of some 40 camps throughout Germany where prospective settlers were trained for their new lives in Palestine. As late as 1942 Zionists operated at least one of these officially authorized ?Kibbutz? training camps[9] over which flew the blue and white banner which would one day be adopted as the national flag of ?Israel?.[10]

If history is generous it will see Israel as a sort of retirement home for the survivors. If Zionists are smart, they will accept the generosity of history. If Palestinians are patient, the entire land of Israel will be available to them without restrictions. If Jews are careless, Zionism will force history to be less than generous.