Israel is lying to itself about 'united Jerusalem'

"Try some balance, Gideon." (Johnny) Why should he? Gideon Levy has chosen to function as a mirror, not as a judge to establish each side's responsibility. It is his legitimate right. Everyone needs a mirror. A mirror can only show you how you really look like. Don't expect it to tell you there are others as ugly as you. That's for you to judge.

Good Olde Jerusalem is the city that keeping all Political Parties UNITED. On the Israelis side, especially the right wings, the religious parties do have a strong plateform to cement a good coalition to keep the Goverment going. On the Palestinians side, the Fatah, and the Hamas,fighting each other as to show which one is the most able defender of the faith. Then again why not return the Olde City (as intended during partition) an INTERNATIONAL CITY,and WHY NOT too turning it as a sort of NEW UNITED NATION HEAD QUARTER ??? which will be more centre to every Nation. Nearest to ME,Eu,Africa,Americas and even to the AUSTRALESIA and the N/S POLES.

If we had more freedom to manipulate the city, well... the Third Temple would be there. Reunification of the Abrahamic religions (more that half of the world's population), what else would you want? Besides, that's why the city sucks: -Mainly, too many unbuilt areas. Requires more taxes on those. -Old pre-1967 buildings need mandatory renovation, like in Paris and other capitals. -Huge part left to the WAQF, which makes Jerusalem its garbage. -Needs architecture guidelines for all mayors to come, not personal tastes. And really, Tel-Aviv city center is not much better.

Gideon has a point that the emotional baggage spewed by everyone about the sanctity of Jerusalem in our hearts has no actual bearing on the constantly shifting "borders" of the real city. If the Knesset votes again to add more new distant neighborhoods to the city limits, do those neighborhoods now become "Holy Jerusalem"? Can't we question that without being called self-hating? Gideon does us all a disservice, however, by always forcing the Jews to face their mishegos but never expecting the Arabs to do the same. He's so ready to concede everything despite the fact that the Arabs manufactured their deep emotional commitment to "Holy Jerusalem" out of cloth starting in 1948. Shouldn't they be expected to look in the mirror, too? Wouldn't mutual self-analysis go a longer way to finding compromise? Try some balance, Gideon. You'll persuade more people that way.

- the Zionist national consciousness raising program must be nearly 20 years older. But this is by the by - you haven't even attempted to answer my question.

"Problem for them and you is they lost." Not a problem for me personally. Of course Israel has a right to defend itself against that kind of aggression. But for the last 25 years at least Israel has not been defending itself against that kind of aggression. On the contrary it is Israel who is overtaking the role of aggressor, and greedily using its might to gobble up as much land as possible so that when the parties do finally reach the negotiating table it will be able to pull out a map and and say "Well look, there's nothing to be done these are irreversible facts on the ground." What's a problem for me is that I actually would like to extend my support to Israel, but am finding it more and more impossible. The "Pals" as you call them are not a new people - as an indigenous people many of them have descended from people inhabiting the area for many hundreds of years more than most Israeli's ascendants. They may be new in the sense of their consciousness as a national entity -

I reiterate that when Jordan annexed the West Bank and East Jerusalem, the only country that supported this was Great Britain, although there are rumors that Pakistan joined in the fun. And no, the world did not go crazy, as I stated. As for Israel annexing the West Bank, the majority of Israelis may not support this. Nor do I wish to annex the West Bank. At the same time, I do not see the "green line" as a border etched in stone. It was a failure in the past, so why repeat past failures. Now is a time to seek creative paths to finding peace, if it can exist. I myself still believe the issue here is honor and humiliation and sadly the idea of a jewish state existing in the center of the Islamic Umma or shall we call it empire, is like a bone stuck in their throat. I suggest you read "Stories of Dogs" by Nathan Weinstock, author of "Zionism, False Messiah". He changed his tune back in 2004. Google it. The current path will not lead to peace.

"Why are we treating [the Green Line] as a border?" (FOX) We are not, dummy. You don't know what you are speaking about. Borders are between states. A border is the line which marks where "your" territory ends and where "their" territory begins. (Thanks to Johnboy from Sydney) The Green Line NOT being a border is at the very core of our leaders' refusal to admit they are violating Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention. "Israel argues that the international conventions relating to occupied land do not apply to the Palestinian territories because they were not under the legitimate sovereignty of any state in the first place." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1682640.stm

CJ what law are you referring to as it sounds like Sharia law ,which doesn,t figure in the Jewish state ,so it must be a fashion this law you talk about,yes?

"Gazans and west bankers should be relocated to Jordan." (sfg) What are we waiting for? Time is getting short. Let us do it NOW, before it is too late. "Battle of the numbers: Jewish minority by 2020", Jerusalem Post, Oct 25, 2007. by Professor Sergio Dellapergola, of the Harman Institute of Contemporary Jewry, the Hebrew U in Jerusalem. Senior Fellow at the Jewish People Policy Planning Institute. http://www.jpppi.org.il/ (News & Events -- From the press) "We must either have a Palestinian state in our neighborhood, or we will become a Palestinian state." Yehoshafat Harkabi (1921-1994), head of Military Intelligence (1955-1959), then professor and director of the Institute of International Relations and Middle East Studies at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. "Harkabi was the only commander of military intelligence to have had a good command of Arabic, in addition to genuinely professional knowledge of Arab civilization and history, and of Islam." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yehoshafat_Harkabi

Absurd. If Israel, having failed to separate in time from the Palestinians, ends up as a binational state extending from the sea to the river, it will not be because of Gideon Levy. When I say to someone "If you keep driving this way, don't be surprised one day to awake in an emergency room," I am not manipulating him to be involved in a crash.

"It was not unilateral." (CJ) Actually it was. "Jordan's claim was never recognized by the international community, with the exception of the United Kingdom." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Bank

Hey Colin I believe you have things backwards. You speak of brute force as if the Israeli army in 1948 and 67 was brutish, as in far stronger than the combined Arab armies that they faced, even you know that this was not the case. it is true that force usually does win the day. And even the average Arab will accept that this was the means with which they conquered and occupied half the planet. As well they are well aware that the war of 48 was fought with the intention of wiping out the Jewish state. Problem for them and you is they lost. Holding onto all the West Bank would be problematic for the four reasons you stated, thus I do not personally call for that, but the green line is but an armistice line and is not an actual border. This will have to be discussed, with whomever is pulling the strings on the Pal side. But I do not see the green line as carved in stone, nor can I tell you what a Pal state will look like, the Pals are a very new people.

"Jordan annexed the West Bank and this did not cause a hail of outbursts from the maddening crowd." (FOX) Think - If you know how to. Then do enlight me: What has hold our leaders back, till now, for 42 years, from annexing the West Bank too, adding 2,461,267 Arabs (according to the CIA World Factbook) to our 23.6% non-Jewish citizens (2004) ? What Jordan could, why can't we too? Any idea? See under www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/we.html "Countries rarely base their societies on what other societies think." (FOX) That was true in the past. Not anymore. Think apartheid South Africa, and Milosevic's Serbia. Wake up, its 2009.

CJ murmured, "The Law is not a fashion and it hasn`t changed." Laws often change due to fashion, for example the legalization of sodomy, although taboo for thousands of years, has now become acceptable, fashion? yes. Marijuana laws are changing, fashion? yes. CJ wrote, concerning the "green line". "It`s only an armistice line." Yes it is, so why are we treating it as a border, fashion? yes. As for the acceptance of the green line by the Palestinians, CJ comments, "They're (the pals) very generous actually" And so is Israel for inventing the Pal people and going along with the charade. As for Jerusalem, there is no law restricting Israel from annexing property taken from the Jordanians. Yes jerusalem was Jordanian until '67, that you have fallen for the rubbish that it is the third holiest site in Islam just shows how guilible you are.

#93 cont -ment, and knows the other three options would permanently alienate the rest of the world, so the policy has become eternal procrastination coupled with creeping annexation. Even though this is the second least abominable of the available solutions it is still a disgusting way for a modern superpower to behave. Gideon Levy is quite right - Israel has talked itself into the delusion that this can go on while the rest of the world turns a blind eye.

"Gazans and west bankers should be relocated to Jordan. It is clear that "Palestinians" don`t wish to live alongside Israel. A fund should be set up to pay the "Palestinians" to voluntarily relocate to a Muslim state. The EU, UN and US could fund the relocation." You want ethnic cleansing and you want us to pay for it as well????????????

"levy manipulating for a 'one state solution'" you are most probably right.

"Countries rarely base their societies on what other societies think." Read the Declaration of a Jewish State. "Gideon claims that Israel is lying to itself because the "world community" does not accept Jerusalem as Israel`s capital." Unilateral annexation is not valid. "But the world is a fickle place and fashions change" The Law is not a fashion and it hasn't changed. "Yadda... did not accept the "green line" as an official border for Israel and her neighbors" It's only an armistice line. "At the same time Jordan had annexed the West Bank and this did not cause a hail of outbursts from the maddening crowd." It was not unilateral. "Today even the Pals state that they accept the green line (67 borders) as carved in stone, how did this happen?" They're very generous actually. "As long as the world sees that Israel is sticking to its principle of a united Jerusalem they will come to accept it" And if it doesn't and decides Israel should abide by the law?????

FOX #83 "Today even the Pals state that they accept the green line (67 borders) as carved in stone, how did this happen?" Well no question about that - brute force by a superior military power. So the really pertinent question is "Why doesn't Israel - having extracted this concession - seize the opportunity to sue for peace on precisely those terms?". To the outside world the answer to that question seems more and more inescapably obvious: having discovered that brute force can achieve things negotiation finds nearly impossible to achieve, Israel then asks itself "Why not continue to use brute force to take much more than what you originally would have settled for? Take what you want - nobody has the power to stop you." Israel would of course take the whole West Bank but for one niggling little problem. The native inhabitants. Israel would then be faced with the choice of expulsion, enfranchisement, apartheid or genocide. Israel is terrified by the foreseen consequences of enfranchise

The Hague, Den Haag in Dutch, is the capital of The Netherlands. Good to remember that when scoffing. "The Arabs of jerusalem enjoy their rights as citizens of Israel, and one day hopefully they will have to admit it." Foxy sentence. Hope we never have to admit, in Den Haag, that even those who are citizens of Israel don't have the rights you and I have and that many are not citizens of Israel at all.

Jerusalem's "borders" are a construct without any historical or logical significance. Israeli Jews are, in fact, legally barred from entering Kfar Aqab or Shufat Refugee Camp, both neighborhoods within Israel's "eternal capital"--and yet we hear the rightists (and their allies in the U.S., who are worse because they take extreme views without taking the responsibility of IDF service) harp on about "undivided Jewish Jerusalem." Why don't you go to Kalandiya checkpoint sometime, and demand your right to visit part of your eternal capital on the other side, and see what they say? Just redraw the lines in Jerusalem to keep the Jewish neighborhoods and the Kotel, and stop pretending there's some deep religious or national connection to Pisgat Zeev, Har Homa, or the rotting Atarot "industrial area" or airport.

"The fact is that Israel has been doing crazy things for the last 42 odd years" You may call it crazy, but they're still there after 42 years. Sometimes you gotta be crazy to survive.

"Freedom of worship? It's a sad joke. In no other city is access to holy places restricted according to the believer's age, as Muslims who seek to pray at the Al-Aqsa Mosque are restricted." [Levy] I know of no other city in the world where young men with rocks attack other persons at a place of worship. Removing the young men seems to provide a solution in this case. More efficient than removing the rocks.

Bravo Mr. Sobel. Imagine speaking of Jerusalem as though it were to be measured by the criteria of an amusement park! In the metric of "truth" one has only to read the Torah. Whatever Jerusalem is deemed to be, it is ours, only ours. Whatever is the current state of Jerusalem must be seen in relation to that one and only truth.

interesting point and am impressed that the arabs have made you their spokesperson. the next step could be a referendum amonst the arabs in east jerusalem. if they prefer to be part of israel that would take away all the crticism of a united jerusalem. i hope israelis will be gracious and welcoming to their 200,000 new arab citizens.

"In no other city is access to holy places restricted according to the believer's age, as Muslims who seek to pray at the Al-Aqsa Mosque are restricted." Gee what Jew or Christian can even visit the top of the mount - at all? Do you know why younger Palestinians are restricted from visiting there? If they weren't such a security threat they wouldn't be restricted. Why are Jews not allowed on the mount? Did Jordanian leaders respect Jewish religion when it barred Jews from the site?

Your post gave me the chills. Truth is hard to come by today and my soul simply trembled upon reading your comment. I'm sure Gideon Levy is eating his words!

Why are people like mr Levy an mr Goldstone called self hating Jews for telling the truth? If truthful jews are self haters does that say ? Jews need to lie through the teeth to care for themselfs? Why do other jews tell lies about honest men and call them self haters or worse anti semites?....Mr levy for PM !

Numerous definitions to "Sovereignty" 1. the quality or state of being sovereign. 2. the status, dominion, power, or authority of a sovereign; royalty. 3. supreme and independent power or authority in government as possessed or claimed by a state or community. 4. rightful status, independence, or prerogative. 5. a sovereign state, community, or political unit. The State of Israel, the Jewish State, has full sovereignty over both East and West Jerusalem. The Kingdom of Israel and the Kingdom of Judah had sovereignty over Jerusalem for 450 years, until the Babylonians conquered Jerusalem in 587 BC. Sovereignty is not dependent on recognition but rather dominion, power or authority in government as possessed or claimed by a state or community. Palestinian Law or authority does not reign over Jerusalem. Israeli law and authority reigns over Jerusalem. You're welcome

Mr. Levy, you're a writer who does not believe in the power of words and ideas. Yes, Jerusalem is some of the things that you describe: often dirty, chaotic, and neglected by all too many Israelis whose notion of Israel are the bright lights of Tel Aviv. What exactly was the state of Jerusalem when Theodore Herzl ignited the fire in the hearts of millions of Jews when he challenged them with "If you will it, it will become true."? Well, sir, you have obviously missed the point of that call. Jerusalem, not Tel Aviv, binds all Jews to Israel and the fact that numerous Israeli governments have neglected to invest In Jerusalem testifies to a general malaise in current Israeli culture. The religious amongst us have no such doubts about the centrality But that's no reason to surrender to our enemies by enlisting in their camapaign to delegitimize the Jewish state. To say that Jerusalem languishes "under the burden of occupation" is to reveal, Mr. Levy' own alienation from Jewish history

mr. levy is right that israeli leaders, journalist etc. are talking to themselves, but they too negotiate with u.s. peace with u.s. is very important, but talks with u.s. about israeli steps in the occupied territories makes the u.s. an un fair broker. abbas is right not accepting the phoney '' (hebrew ke'ilu)'' freezing'', which does not include the occupied east jerusalem , most of it annexed from the west- bank.

well said!

the population of Jerusalem is 763,800 whilst as you point out the population of Ottawa is 800,000 approximately. You are correct that I had stated that Ottawa has a smaller pop than Jerusalem, I was mistaken, I had not provided for the inclusion of almost all of Ottawa valley in the latest census. Excuse me. But the jist of my post, was to point out that the capital city of any country does not have to be, and often is not the cultural center of the country nor its center of fun and finance. Ottawa is certainly none of the two, although a midnight skate on the Rideau is a wonderful thing to do. Washington DC is a great place to visit, but it too is not the cultural or financial center of the United States. As for Ankara, allow me to yawn. In the case of Jerusalem it is the spiritual and historical center of the Jews, and is a wonderful & interesting place to visit and to live.

excellent, true, honest and competently written article. NO DOUBT, Israel is lying to itself about 'united Jerusalem'. to be honest with you: I felt better in and about Jerusalem, when it was divided. ISRAELI MEGALOMANIC MENTALITY HAS DESTROYED THE UNIQUE CHARACTER OF JERUSALEM; ONE OF THE CORE MISTAKES WAS THE DESTRUCTION OF THE OLD ENVIRONMENT IN FRONT OF THE WAILING WALL; THUS MAKING PLACE FOR THE NEW RACE OF BELIEVERS. The intimacy, holiness and uniqueness of the site has disappeared once and for all. This was the first step towards a selfrighteous and arrogant ruling over millions of palestinians and loss of Israeli respect of Rule of Law, International Law and HUMAN RIGHTS.

"When you are remembering that siege, do you afford sufficient blame to the idiots who started that war? It was quite obvious to anyone who gave thought that the Romans would beat them" Would you also call the Palestinians who start intifada's stupid. People like you just want those who are oppressed to just sit back and take it, or to blow away. But people have a right to fight for their freedom

At one time, "truth" was a straightforward term. Today you have completeds the truths's conversion to complete and absolute relativism. What "truth" is there to your observation that (Jerusalem) : "It's a relatively marginal city, certainly when compared to Tel Aviv"... secular Israelis don't exactly flock to for a good time. Washinton DC is not exactly the American capital of "good times", however even Americans still believe that our relatively recent past commencing in the mid 1770's, which highlighted the moral compass epitomized by George Washington and his progeny, should eternally symbolize the values of America. Certainly New Orleans or Manhattan epitomizes the" good times" that you and the waning Israeli Secular Israeli seem to gravitate toward and in a most peculiar way set that as your standard for a capital. Obvioulsy a city where hedonism is epitomized in your mind and the Secular mind is most appropriate for a Capital City. In that case, why not make Sodom our capital...certainly you and your secular progeny would feel "comfortable' there, no?

"Countries rarely base their societies on what other societies think." They do when they Declare Sovereignty. Read the Declaration of a Jewish State. "But the world is a fickle place and fashions change" The law hasn't. " the "green line" as an official border for Israel and her neighbors" Because it's only an armistice line. Not a border. "At the same time Jordan had annexed the West Bank and this did not cause a hail of outbursts from the maddening crowd." Annexed as a temporary trustee in agreement with the Palestinians. LEGALLY! "Today even the Pals state that they accept the green line (67 borders) as carved in stone, how did this happen?" They're quite generous... "In fact the world doesn`t really care about Jerusalem.." Oh? How come NOT ONE COUNTRY IN THE WORLD recognizes it as Israel's? You're proving the premise of the article...

Otherwise how would he have had parnasa?

Gideon Levy shows no understanding of Jewish history(2000 years Jews prayed for coming back to Jerusalem, not to Tel-Aviv), no vision, and has a total miopia to the wishes and dreams of Jews today.For Mr.Levy it's enough that Tel-Aviv in its' urban boundaries should be the Jewish State and all of Israel's enemies here shout Amen!

1967' Wrong, Richard from Tel Aviv. Can you remember what the territory was called under the British mandate from 1922? "PALESTINE'. That's right and its people were called and continue to be so.. PALESTINIANS And the capital of Palestine from 1922 was.... guess where? JERUSALEM. This tale that 'there are no Palestinians' is just false propaganda by the right to try to justify an ethnic landgrab. The crazies never tire of repeating it though, in the hope that some gullible passers-by might buy into the myth.

As much as a step in the dark ? Jews-Israeli must ask themselves the most serious question in the Jewish History : Haven't we witnessed worse than the Arabs in our long and most eventful days in the diaspora ! The world against us ! Yes ! When the world was with us ? We have been always 'the minority' ... Haven't we ? Never the majority in any country in the world to the time when we returned to our home Israel The world takes advantage of us being a very small minority (not long ago living all of us in one street) and made the rules for us ! Many times these rules included our destruction; yet we are still existing. That is the big price the world thinks to themselves . Iran, Palestinians & giving our our Capital City !!! Is that how much we have to pay for "Peace Now" ? That doesn't worth a 'step in the dark' ! Those who don't believe me, let them ask their Children !

"I can`t understand why advisors aren`t telling him this? Dutch" Maybe because they are somewhat better informed and more intelligent than you?

Mr. Levy should go to Haddassa hospitals and see how the Arab residence of East Jerusalem enjoy the facilities afforded to them. Speak to them or to the Taxi drivers and you see that they do not want divisionn of Jerusalem. They claim that as far as they are concerned there is peace between them and the Jews. it is, they claim, the leaders who need wars for their survival...... However unfortunately Mr. Levy only hears what he wants to hear not the real Arab man's thinking. Esther

Countries rarely base their societies on what other societies think. If this were true, then Saudi Arabia would be a democracy. Gideon claims that Israel is lying to itself because the "world community" does not accept Jerusalem as Israel's capital. Wonderful. But the world is a fickle place and fashions change. Even Mr. Levy remembers when not one Arab country or their third world "non-alligned" friends, did not accept the "green line" as an official border for Israel and her neighbors. At the same time Jordan had annexed the West Bank and this did not cause a hail of outbursts from the maddening crowd. Today even the Pals state that they accept the green line (67 borders) as carved in stone, how did this happen? As long as the world sees that Israel is sticking to its principle of a united Jerusalem they will come to accept it. In fact the world doesn't really care about Jerusalem, so why all the fuss?

This writer needs to refrain from calling people crazy who espouse differing views from his own stupid and misguided lefty approach. Let's keep it civil. You diminish your credibility by going ad hominem, you ignoramus.

Ottawa is a city of 800,000 people after unifyimg all the suburbs of greater Ottawa as one municipla unit.That took place during the governace of Ontario Premier Mike Harris. Other Cities like Toronto,Ontario and Montreal, Quebec were also merged with suburbs (In Quebec under Parti Quebecois government) Population of Ottawa is 812,000.Had it not be for the fact that City of Hull,just accross the Ottawa R.is in Quebec Province,Hull woulb also bepart of Ottawa.That would require a constitutional ammendement to change boundries of Quebec and Ontario.No Canadian Government would dare to risk the wrath of Quebeckers and reignite separatist anger. The Prime Ministers stay live in mansion on Essex street.The leader of the opposition also lives in Ottawa in the official residence on Rideau Canal. Ottawa is a vibrant metropolis with many museums,Concert Hall just accross the ParlamentItzchak Zukerman has been the Conductor of Philharmonic for many Years.Each Year a Tulip Festival(Dutch Gift)

Gideon Levy, I imagine it's all part of Israeli fiction on the ground which fourteen justices at the International Court of Justice in the Hague in 2004 said no Palestinian should accept. How right they were! And if I may, the two phrases on American streets about US support for Israel today is "embarrassing and shameful". Obama looks like he is from another planet pledging support for such people today. It adds to the shame and embarrassment too. I can't understand why advisors aren't telling him this? Dutch

Pal Arabs are intent on making Jerusalem their capital. That is too risky. No other nation would be so stupid to allow it if faced with similar circumstances.

certainly fewer than their jewish neighbors. Less right to civic services less rights to building permits less rights to education and other social services.

Ottawa is the capital of Canada, it has a smaller population than Jerusalem, and is rarely home to the Prime Minister on weekends. Ankara, happens to be the motley capital of Turkey, anybody ever go there? Washington DC, filled with some of the most impoverished folks in America, and the present president can rarely be found spending anytime there, whether it be the weekends or work days. Jerusalem is far more vibrant and prettier than many capital cities. the moment the Arab population realizes that decisions are not going to be made in Helsinki and Islamabad, then they will be able to make peace with themselves. The Arabs of jerusalem enjoy their rights as citizens of Israel, and one day hopefully they will have to admit it.

Guess you've never uttered the words, "Next year in Jerusalem!!! Oh no, Jerusalem is of no significance to the Jews. Why must you ALWAYS take the side that is opposed to the vast majority of Israelis and Jews worldwide? I suppose you know that you are providing comfort to the enemy.

"Only Israel determines its capital, not the rest of the world, so it doesnt really matter what the rest of the world thinks." Of course, any country can determine its capital - so long as it's within its own borders. However, Jerusalem has never been recognised internationally as part of Israel. This was not part of the original UN plan.

Israelis don't like Jerusalem and don't like to live in it.. This includes all of the politicians who proclaim continuously that Jerusalem is the undivided eternal capital of Israel. Very few of the Israeli politicians and cabinet ministers live there, most of them commute to their work there, when their party is in power. Some of them even have operational offices in Tel Aviv. Israelis who are interested in living in Jerusalem face a real estate market inflated by the influx of capital of well-to-do foreign Jews who purchase houses and apartments which they use only a few times a year during Jewish holidays and which leave the central West Jerusalem City like a ghost town during most of the year.

The "filthy" Jerusalem Levy speaks of is not the Jerusalem I know and love. Granted, the ultra-orthodox have moved in droves to the city but they too are Jews with a right to live there. I also believe Jerusalemites of all religions as well as pligrims should all have the opportunity to enjoy the unique spiritual city. I hoe one day Jerusalem will be shared among all without violence. Anyone who has lived there could not help grasp how special it is to all of us equally. A truly united Jerusalem would be a beautiful thing.

The Palestinians are missing a golden opportunity by not electing Gideon Levy as their president.

Delusion is it's own reward.

"The boundaries of Jerusalem have changed many times over the years, not only under Israeli sovereignty" NEVER been under Israeli Sovereignty. No such thing as sovereignty 3,000 years ago. And it isn't under Israeli Sovereignty now. It is inadmissible to acquire territory by war and the illegal annexation isn't recognized. " Jerusalem is the largest city in Israel" It ISN'T in Israel. LOGIC tells us it's in Palestine. http://wp.me/pDB7k-il Nati Hans is not being honest it seems.

... but a Khazar. However, comparing Uman to Yerushalaim, just proved that you are, indeed, a Turk.

There is just one problem with Gideon Levy's logic. Jerusalem has never been an Arab capital or even a Moslem capital. For 1350 years whenever the Ottomans, the Mamluks, Uthman and the early Caliphs rules Jerusalem, their capitals were always outside what was then known as Palestine (except for a short period of 20 years when it was the newly built city of Ramleh (not to be confucsed with Ramalah). On the other hand whenever Jews have held power in what Judah or later Israel, Jerusalem has been their Capital City. Jerusalem was not even holy to Arabs until one caliph found that too many of his subjects were making the pilgimage to Mecca where his rival caliph held sway.

It's get me wondering if this wrighter is not one of those people "that talk out loud when they walk the streets". There has to be a logical explanation on why he would spread this hateful article that by the way is full of lies, that i'm not going even to start numbering because there are just to many. I'll give him the benifit of the doubt, Maybe he was just sexualy molested as a boy.

Thank you Mr. Gideon Levy.- Your articles are the voice of truth, reason, common sense and courage -- the much-needed contrapart to the hateful, spiteful, hysterical, offensive and dangerous columns of Caroline Glick in the Jerusalem Post.-

Why don't they elect a man like Gideon Levy to be their prime minister instead of that mulish Netanyahu? Levy sees things clearly; he understands justice and injustice and knows right from wrong and sense from nonsense. Can you remember how affectionately the world once looked upon Israel--and compare that to what Israel has done to its reputation.

Jews have more freedom in the US than in Israel: there are no restrictions on marriages, they can work on the Sabbath and drive cars and park them -- you Israelis know this better than we Americans. In the US the ADL fights alleged "anti-Semitism" with denunciations of websites whereas in Israel IDF and Shin Bet fight very genuine dangers of bombs. Look at Jews living in the rich suburbs of major American cities and those living in the squalor of Jerusalem as described by Gideon Lewy. Where should the Jewish future be? What's the sense in fighting over a garbage dump when you can live in a palace? Let the Arabs have Jerusalem -- even all of it !!!

When you are remembering that siege, do you afford sufficient blame to the idiots who started that war? It was quite obvious to anyone who gave thought that the Romans would beat them, but because of them and their stupidity the Temple was destroyed and most of the Jewish population was killed or driven into slavery.

ir·re·den·tist n. One who advocates the recovery of territory culturally or historically related to one's nation but now subject to a foreign government. We used to blame this on Mussolini, and perhaps he gave us this word, but it's been a plague for 2000 years, it seems. The cause of so many wars and so much misfortune in the world. What's next? Give Manhattan back to the Indians?

Is when you talk just to yourself you will always be right. This is what Israel has done for years but for an amazing and impressive lobby in dc, sanctions would have been imposed years and years ago. There is no justification for a what Israel is doing in jeruselem. But Israel has convinced only itself that they are entitled to east jeruselem.

1) We witnessed what happened during a divided Jerusalem. Synagogues in Eastern Jerusalem were blown up and the holiest site to Judaism used as a latrine. 2) Mr Gideon Levy forgets that Jerusalem is at the center of Zionism, be it secular or religious. "Eretz Tzion v Yerushalaim" are the words in the anthem of the Jewish State of Israel. These were the words before 1967 and before 1947. 3) Mr Gideon Levy forgets that even under the UN censor of Jerusalem for the year 1947, the census included Bethlehem and surrounding Arab villages. 1947 Jews: 100,000 Total: 205,000 United Nations (1983) (Includes Bethlehem and surrounding Arab villages). The boundaries of Jerusalem have changed many times over the years, not only under Israeli sovereignty. 4) Jerusalem is the largest city in Israel, home to 10 percent of the Israeli population. Jews in Jerusalem: 488,832 Jews in Tel Aviv: 356,083 Jews in Haifa: 218,366 There are nearly as many Jews in E. Jerusalem as there are in Haifa.

Of course Gideon Levy is right. And Israel is not only lying to itself with regard to Jerusalem. Zionists constantly create their own image of reality in order not to see a simple truth: one cannot work to make Palestine more and more Jewish and less and less Arab, while at the same time acting according to universal moral values. ' Zionism is trying it, but it's just impossible; Zionists believe that they have succeeded (e.g. in 1948) to achieve a Jewish Israel in a moral way. However in order to be able to believe this they had to create their own image of reality.

MANY outside of Israel acknowledge Jerusalem as the place where the ALMIGHTY has placed His name. Whether the Nations or even Israelis acknowledge this is beside the reality. National Israel has embraced a roller-coaster relationship with HaShem, but there is always a remnant of those who steadfastly love HIM. A divided Jerusalem, a 2-State Holy Land is NOT part of HaShem's plan. There are Israelis who are NOT Israel, they side with the logic of men. Tehillim 118:26 / Melakhim alef 8:29 Wake-up Haaretz, get with The Almighty's plan/will !!

Also this time Gideon says the truth

Gideon, whose Biblical ancestor whould disown him (!) compares the attachment of Jews to Jerusalem's Old City's Jewish sacred site(s)--the Temple Mount-- to a rabbi's grave in a Ukrainian village. How absurd! But this is to be totally expected from a Jewish ignoramus. True Jews have proclaimed for thousands of years: If I forget you O Jerusalem, let my right arm wither; let my tongue cling to my cheek if I forget thee! A reader correctly asks in one of the earlier posts, Gideon, why do you not leave Israel?

What a totally stupid and bad article. J-town is beautiful for anyone who has been there...

could have been Holy at one point, but now it's just people living side by side waiting for the day the walls come down so they can start killing each other. nothing holy there.

The whole world / UN are hypocrites by calling a united Jerusalem illegal, as you wrote. The first UN resolution (1947) about Jerusalem requires a referendum by its inhabitants to establish final status. So why not finally execute this resolution, and let the inhabitants decide? Because of the Jewish / Israëli majority, no doubt Jerusalem will be chosen as Israëls united capital. And then it will be completely legal! So today's 'illegality' is not because '67, but because of Arabs refusal to cooperate with the '47 resolution.

Your repeated assertions that "nobody accepts our claim that blah blah blah..." are rooted in the misconception that morality is determined by consensus or majority vote. If morality or "right" were determined this way, we should all become Christians, Buddhists, or Moslems, since Jews are a very tiny portion of the population and "nobody accepts our religion". The truth, of course, is that morality is not determined by vote. If an entire country votes to expropriate the private property of one man, their decision remains immoral. Similarly, if the entire world votes that Jerusalem doesn't belong to the Jews, that doesn't change morality. Of course, that's not even the case. Most of the "leaders" involved in your "consensus" are dictators who represent no one but themselves. The rest are liberals who believe in rewarding the Arab belligerence of 1967 with territory. Moral people don't believe violence and belligerence should be rewarded.

I don't care if he neighborhoods revert to the PA or new PA state. Arabs should live in the Arab state. I vary rarely agree with Gideon Levy on anything, but the more Arabs that Jewish Israel can rid itself of the better and if that includes a few Arab neighborhoods, so be it.

like always, happy to read the voice of reason here

capitals are the business of a sovereign country only. foreign opinion is of no consequence !

From 1948 to 1967, Jordan denied the Jewish people access to the Western Wall in violation of its Armistice Agreement with Israel; over fifty synagogues in the Old City's Jewish Quarter were destroyed or desecrated; its Jewish residents were expelled. The Christian population of Jordanian Jerusalem fell from 25,000 to 11,000, as restrictive laws were imposed on Christian institutions. Furthermore, Jordan's position in Jerusalem had resulted from its 1948 invasion of the city, while Israel's capture of Jerusalem in 1967 resulted from a war of self-defense.

I'm a foreigner and I just can't belive that people in Israel can have that attitude - do you think that "new Berlin wall" in the middle of "Holy City" would be a great idea? If not - there is just no other option: either the Jerusalem will be Israel or it's gonna be palestinian teritory. So you people should reconsider theese two solutions...Want to give it to the Arab government?

1:Telling the Israelis Jerusalem will remain the united capital of Israel. 2: Promising Abbas that East Jerusalem will be given to the Palestinians. You cant decieve two people, no matter how good your intentions are. Like Hannania that American-Palestinian comedian said, "share the old city"the wastern party of J-lem remains Israeli, the eastern part can be Palestinian. overall the main obstacle even to the biggest lefties in Israel is giving up the Western wall,why not jointly administer the old city, Arabs control Al Aqsa and the Muslim quarter etc, Israel controls the Kottel and the Jewish quarter.

If all Israelis were just a little bit like Mr. G. Levy, they would have already reached peace in the region and would not be ostracised abroad and could enjoy being the most developped country in the region! But,unfortunately, Israelis persist in seeing live and conflits in black & white, and therefore the situation might go on "ad infinitum"...until "doomsday"...

You da man Gideon. The truth hurts. Pointing fingers and not following law seems to be all Israel does. Oh wait, self-delusion seems to belong on that. You are a brave man for speaking the truth Mr.Levy.

We salute your courage, honesty and integrity. You are the only and only rational and logical voice in the Israel. The history will give you your place sooner or later.

Everybody knows that there has never in history been any nation with Jerusalem in its captial except for ancient Palestine (the land of the Jews)" Then they'd have been Palestinian Jews, no? "and modern Israel" Jerusalem is not IN modern Israel Israel accepted as being neutral wehn Israel Declared SOvereoignty and was recognized by the majority of the International Community fo States, over riding the Arab Sttaes objctions. "There was never a Palestinian people before 1967 either" You just said there were... "Gideon can continue to fool himself and his readers all he wants, it won`t change the fact that Jersualem was, is and shall be the captical of Israel, in its entirety, and including all of the old city." Gonna MOVE it to Israel...'cause at the moment, it's in Palestine. http://wp.me/pDB7k-il

I wonder? You talk about restrictions on holy sites. Why are the Jewish people restricted from praying at the holiest Jewish site in the world? The whole area of the Temple mount is considered our holy site, yet we have access to a very small section of one of the outer walls. We cannot pray at kever Yosef, we have restricted access to Maarat Hamachpelah...in our own land...???

Why do you feel the importance to expend so much energy arguing about why you want to give away your own land?

Maybe you should start a new religion, too, while you are about it. Call it the Alaska promised land and you can appoint yourself the Chief Priest. If you are a Jew and you accept the Torah, then you know that Israel - all of it - from the Jordan to the sea - is the promised land and Jerusalem is its capital. And forget about rewriting the bible. Levy, you are still wondering in the desert. Come home brother!

... but it doesn't have to be. Get on the right side of the Hebrew prophets whose unfolding prophecies should be a comfort and not a concern to you.

Do we casre whast the world thinks? Mr levy must have an IQ of 70. J-m is the capital of Israel period!!! Whoever does not accept that is either dumb or ignorant. Which nation in the world lets the rest of the world decide what is it's capital? If Israel does that using mr levy's moronic logic, the holocaust of 70 years ago will be a joke compared to what will be in store for us.

To be leftist is not mean to be a self-hatred & enemy of its own state. Millions of jews did not make a aliyah becouse of Tel-Aviv has a beautiful beachs.They came here to the Jerusalem capital of whole Jewish Nation.

...the reunification of Jerusalem is against the international law and the Un resolution. That's why all the embassies are in Tel Aviv and to the celebrations of the unification 95 % of the ambassadors have refused to participate (f.e all the EU countries, also US) because they do not want to celebrate something which is illegal.So Gideon Levy tells only what the rest of the world consider to be legal.

gideon your one of the few people who tell it like it is, and i commend you for that, its not easy with such extremities existing in israel, you remain non-biased which i really respect, as an irish man having lived in jerusalem i was astounded by the level of complexities and often times ignorances there, but i totally agree with your article, well done

... nobody can really conquer it or define it... it lives a life of its own...

Everybody knows that there has never in history been any nation with Jerusalem in its captial except for ancient Palestine (the land of the Jews), and modern Israel. There was never a Palestinian people before 1967 either, a fact he doesn't want to face. And the only reason to split Jersualem is to make the world feel better about itself. Jordan didn't give a darn about Jerusalem when it was under its control, and neither did the palestinians. Gideon can continue to fool himself and his readers all he wants, it won't change the fact that Jersualem was, is and shall be the captical of Israel, in its entirety, and including all of the old city.

gideon,*Do you keep kosher??

And the former mainstream media are the perfect venue to allow him to do so.

I particularly enjoyed the amusing analogy to the "crazies of our childhood". I often said that if Israel were a person, it would have long ago been institutionalized for its own safety. The fact is that Israel has been doing crazy things for the last 42 odd years, and with AIPAC's help has managed to take over the asylum. I truly hope Dr. Obama will get the patients back into group therapy!

Jerusalem frightens me as well. So many people with beliefs and convictions. Put them together side by side = you`ll see immaediately they can`t all be true. It`s just a city like any other. Myths are only myths and should be recocgnized as such.

... you've done better that this... but guess you are sick-and-tired of it all, like so many of us...

Indeed, I don't understand you, Mr Levy. Are you suggesting that Jerusalem be handed over to Hamas and Fatah thugs and murderers? Don't you remember what the Palestinians did to my country Lebanon? I mean, when will you wake up? Please? (Thanks Olivia)

Gideon articles exemplifies a distorted view of Jewish History. Through the Jewish Diaspora, everyday thrice Jews prayed "Velrushalayim eercha" eercha means our spiritual connection point to G-d. There never has been a Palestinian nation to date. Ooman only has a grave of a rabbi and is visited once a year. The treatment of the Arabs religious places is because they have repeeatedly (from their Koran) shown a desire to "kill the infidels". That is the porblem and nothing else!

It's time to come together for peace!

Have you visited other capitals, like Washington DC, Paris, London, Amman? They too are "filthy and in parts frightfully ugly, stricken by poverty and ignorance". Jerusalem is the same as any other city..don't take readers for fools. As for acceptance of our capital, its fools like you that propogate that ignorance and bias against us. If you need to blame, blame yourself and your silly writings.

China? Japan? The USA? Nothing at all to do with the Palestinians whose territory Israel has usurped daily for 61 years

me too!

Yes, Gideon, explain them also why is the large area on the west side of the river Jordan is called "West Bank" and the large area on the east side of the same river called "Jordan". Remind them also that a river bank is a narrow band of earth, adjacent to the body of water. Remind them also that the term "West Bank" was used by the illegal racist Jordanian authorities in their administrative books. Also, explain them why you call "palestinians" those who always called themselves Moslems and Arabs. Go ahead, Gideon, you good at it.

Josephus was a priest who blamed the Zealots for killing other Jews and for bringing about the destruction of the Temple. Rabbi Yochanan ben Zakkai also blamed the Zealots for preventing a peaceful settlement of the situation. Like the article says, the Zealots were crazy, scared other people, and "sacrificed" a lot of things that didn't necessarily belong to them in the first place.

"Jerusalem's borders are also deceptive." ..."So why not extend Jerusalem's municipal boundaries to Hebron, the Dead Sea, Ramallah and Ramle?" - Gideon Levy There is always next week and next month. Give it time. If needed to extinguish any hope of peace, the city limits can grow.

Gideon; for the 100 times why do not you leave Israel?

recognized Jerusalem as Israel's capital BEFORE 1967? The problem with Levy's logic is that it actually undermines his otherwise valid arguments.

A arab state instead of Israel and free of jews ? G.Levy says quote " Gilo and Har Homa...are within Jerusalem's current municipal borders ." His colleagues the radical dhimmedias left share (?) G.Levy opinion (?) but they want it apparently thru the "2 states solution" : radical dhimmedias left falsely portray Gilo and Har Homa as settlements in the west bank . The "occupied Jerusalem suburb of Gilo." - The Economist The "Gilo settlement in Jerusalem." - Reuters A "Jewish settlement in East Jerusalem." - BBC A "controversial settlement on the outskirts of east Jerusalem." - The Guardian A "settlement in East Jerusalem." - The Daily Telegraph "one of a dozen Israeli settlements in mostly Arab east Jerusalem." - AFP A "part of Jerusalem claimed by Palestinians." - LA Times

I am afraid that for all practical purposes Gideon is right. He would also be right if he said that most of the people in the world would be happy if there would be no Israel , So what should we do ??? lie down and die to please the world.Gideon believes that the muslim world will accept us somehow. They will not, even in a size of Shderot. They convinced me. I want my Grand children to live. Sorry Gideon.

"When not a single Jew was allowed to visit the Western Wall for 19 years.." No ISRAELIS were admitted, regardless of their religious beliefs.

Jordan's western boundary is the Jordan River. Jordan is the "Palestinian" state. Gazans and west bankers should be relocated to Jordan. It is clear that "Palestinians" don't wish to live alongside Israel. A fund should be set up to pay the "Palestinians" to voluntarily relocate to a Muslim state. The EU, UN and US could fund the relocation.

While we eat our breakfast, let us remember the times past when Titus and four Roman Legions laid seige to Jerusalem. The bravery of the Jewish defenders was described by Josephus in the Jewish War. "They massacred indiscriminately all whom they met, and burnt the houses with all who had taken refuge within. Often in the course of their raids, on entering the house for loot, they would find whole families dead and the rooms filled with the victims of the famine..."

Gideon, a compass and protractor on a map. Next question: the Arabs deny the connection between Jewish Jerusalem, the Western Wall, and the Temple Mount. Oh, and these are in "East Jerusalem". Oh, they deny the connection to Tel Aviv too.

Its time that we had the courage to un-do the vestiges of Arab colonialism.

Gideon Levy says what everyone else is afraid to say ... the truth. He is the only moral compass in Israel. Keep it up, Gideon, regardless of what those "crazies" say on the right!!

Only Israel determines its capital, not the rest of the world, so it doesnt really matter what the rest of the world thinks. Jerusalem has always been capital of Israel. This will never change. The prospect of another Arab palestinian state other than Jordan Palestine though is likely to disappear and the world is lying to itself to think anyone needs to create another one. In time, Jordan Palestine will include the Arabs in Judea and Samaria. Its inevitable. The world is lying about the future.

Excellent article. I am an American Jew--a Levite--excellent yichus. Jerusalem should be a capital to both Arabs and Jews. Better yet: international city as the Jews accepted in 1948. Arabs were fools then to reject it. Make the same offer again, coupled with pull out from every inch of the West Bank.

When not a single Jew was allowed to visit the Western Wall for 19 years, and Jordanian Legionairs were sniping into the Jewish neighborhoods of Jerusalem.