If Netanyahu wants peace, he must lose Lieberman

See where this ideology of "no one to talk to", of "Better Sharm-el-Sheikh without peace ..." of "Netzarim as vital to us as Tel-Aviv", has brought us. To Kippour '73, and to Gaza as an islamist enclave we now cannot live with, nor defeat. "The Israelis wanted to destroy Hamas in the war [in Dec, 2008] and make Abu Mazen strong in the West Bank. Actually they weakened Abu Mazen and made Hamas stronger. Now they wanted to destroy Hamas. But what is the substitute for Hamas? It is Al Qaeda, ... " " ... the only thing that can protect Israel is peace, nothing else. No amount of airplanes or weapons could protect Israel, so they have to forget about that." From "Direct Quotes: Bashar Assad", by Seymour M. Hersh, The New Yorker, February 3, 2010 Is that what makes him, in your eyes, "not ready for peace"? Telling us that only peace can really protect Israel?

See where this ideology of "no one to talk to", of "Better Sharm-el-Sheikh without peace ..." of "Netzarim as vital to us as Tel-Aviv", has brought us. To Kippour '73, and to Gaza as an islamist enclave we now cannot live with, nor defeat. "The Israelis wanted to destroy Hamas in the war [in Dec, 2008] and make Abu Mazen strong in the West Bank. Actually they weakened Abu Mazen and made Hamas stronger. Now they wanted to destroy Hamas. But what is the substitute for Hamas? It is Al Qaeda, ... " " ... the only thing that can protect Israel is peace, nothing else. No amount of airplanes or weapons could protect Israel, so they have to forget about that." From "Direct Quotes: Bashar Assad", by Seymour M. Hersh, The New Yorker, February 3, 2010 Is that what makes him, in your eyes, "not ready for peace"? Telling us that only peace can really protect Israel?

Israel lives in a cruel and tough neighborhood. If you are strong you survive and when you are weak you die. Leiberman statements are reality not fiction. Even democratic countries that are not yet threatened from that region should take notice and follow his honest and blunt comments.

You're right about what comes from the heart being the most important thing. But from my perspective, the heart I was responding to is not necessarily a good one. It lacks empathy for its fellow man, Saul. It judges the many by a few, it's biased, racist, and it cheers the injustice, mistreatement, oppression and displacement of it's fellows human beings for the benefit of its own; without ever once stopping to look beyond religion and lineage to see that they are brothers. It's not what was said or how it was written, Saul. It was the values that were being reflected, and even praised; and the attack on those who DO possess human empathy, and who DO believe in justice, and the God given rights of their fellow man. Our own history is filled with hardship, oppression, and genocide, Saul. Since when is it Our right to inflict on others what we have suffered? My post was not made to a good heart.

first of all i have to correct you when you speak of "you" - i'm not israeli. second: israel has made a first step by leaving gaza (land that doesn't belong to israel, as you would define it) and leaving it to the palestinians. however, instead of going the way of peace, the palestinians built a terrorist base in gaza. and they don't even allow their own brothers and sisters to have a decent living in gaza (not to mention israelis in sderot and surroundings). however, i don't hear your "bashing" in view of this fact. third: it doesn't help when only israel accepts a "fair compromise" on the 3 core issues. also the palestinians have to do so. but the problem of reaching a fair compromise starts already with the palestinian demand of the "right of return". up to now, there's no will to accept a compensation by israel. you see,there's already much to complain about the arabs. if you want peace you should leave your blinkered attitude. peace is built on fairness, not on bashing only israel.

Well, if Mr. netanyahu really wants peace, and Mr. Lieberman does not, then the thesis and the antithesis must resolve into a synthesis. He will not get rid of Mr.Lieberman and will continue to exist together in the mode of oppsites. Assuming of course, Mr. Netanyahu does want peace.

with all due respect to your feeling for us in Israel, your distance cripples your logic and understanding of our lives here. After giving Gaza back to the 'recent' natives, they elected a power whose charter calls for our destruction and they have the power and 'mandate' to try and succeed.What can we expect by vacating the west bank. a lovefest for Israel.Our neighbors are controlled by obsessive Jew haters &they do not care that their own people will suffer due to their hope we will somehow, someday succumb to world pressure and of course war. Plus, they are controlled & supported by other arab neighbors who are even more adamantly opposed to Israel's existence. It is a great game and strategy that prevents us from giving anything else back until we see some form of honest peace brokers.Idiots we are not, although some of our 1 sided concessions were idiotic. Sorry,we can't take any more chances in risking our collective survival. If you lived here, you'd agree!

there it has nothing to do with lieberman

first of all i have to correct you when you speak of "you" - i'm not israeli. second: israel has made a first step by leaving gaza (land that doesn't belong to israel, as you would define it) and leaving it to the palestinians. however, instead of going the way of peace, the palestinians built a terrorist base in gaza. and they don't even allow their own brothers and sisters to have a decent living in gaza (not to mention israelis in sderot and surroundings). however, i don't hear your "bashing" in view of this fact. third: it doesn't help when only israel accepts a "fair compromise" on the 3 core issues. also the palestinians have to do so. but the problem of reaching a fair compromise starts already with the palestinian demand of the "right of return". up to now, there's no will to accept a compensation by israel. you see,there's already much to complain about the arabs. if you want peace you should leave your blinkered attitude. peace is built on fairness, not on bashing only israel.

you sound like the u.s. president. see how far his ideology of we talk to enemies has brought him. as for assad, i suggest you read the interview he gave to hirsch in the new yorker. as i said, he and syria are not ready for peace. syria is not egypt, and assad is not sadat.

The fact that Israel has 250 UN resolutions against it yet has done nothing to comply with international law makes it just another third-world rogue state on a par with Iran or N Korea. Its oppressive occupation and ethnic settlement of the WB is similarly seen as too similar to extremist Serbs' conduct in the Balkans. Then Lieberman proceeds to lecture Turkey and Sweden and Syria and Germany and anyone else about being anti-Israeli! He is a comedian! He is even speaking today about Israel being 'a world power'!!! You must see that, from the outside, he appears simply ridiculous. You ask: 'The question is: why is the world so much against them? is the world against peace in middle east?' The world is against racists, extremists and bigots. They fit that bill. The rest of the planet does not believe Israel cares a shekel about peace, only free land. Netanyahu is simply not believed or trusted. The bombastic, overtly racist Lieberman is simply neither credible nor acceptable.

The difference between leaders like Begin and Sharon in the past and Netanyahu and Lieberman today is considerable, in two respects. In Begin and even in Sharon's time, Israel was still seen as a valiant little democratic nation fighting for its existence. But even then, the more educated observers - in government, universities, media, law etc - had started to change their views quite sharply, due to Israel's conduct, occupation and intransigence. Today, that view has mushroomed. There is a widespread perception that Israel is a racist country, a bully, a land of ethno-religious extremists hell-bent on stealing Arab land and perfectly happy to bomb Arab civilians to kingdom come to demonstrate military and racial superiority. Netanyahu and Lieberman, among many others from the right, epitomise all that is unpleasant and objectionable to the outsider. They are not seen as honest. Nobody believes they want peace, it is clear they principally want free land./...

What makes you think Netanyahu wants peace?

....disprove a single one of the points I made, but rather had to hide behind subliminal personal allegations. Maybe because what I said about Mr. Netanyahu was absolutely correct...??? P.S. The reason why I decided to take on a bit more the Israeli side, than the Arabs, is the simple fact, that it's currently Israel, which is occupying (according to pretty much the whole International community, including Israels best friends) Palestinian/Arab land, and not the other way around. Get out of the land, that is not yours, and allow the people there a decent living, and I will find plenty of time to "bash" the Arabs, should they then not leave Israel in peace. But first you accept a fair compromise on ALL the 3 core issues of the Israeli-Arab conflict (borders, Jerusalem, refugees), and move out of most parts of the West Bank, and then you can complain about the Arabs, Jimmy Carters and Swiss-Dinos of this world....

Penetrating analysis in this article.Who can forget the Arab love and friendship for Jews before that bad man Lieberman appeared on the scene?

you are too realist in your analogies to be right. The ME was too diffirent and passive during Olmert and Livny years. The iran issue brought arab states and israel closer;hamas gave sings that they might recognize israel once it withdraws to 67 borders. Israel and Syria were seriously negotiating and one step closer to significant developments. Furthermore Obama administration took power preferring talking/diplomacy over war/bullying. while all these positive developments were going on your glorified dogs (netanyahu and liberman) won the elections and turn everything upside down. now here we are on the verge of another ME war. It is my belief that the israeli public had made a terrible choice and will pay for it as long as dogs like liberman and netanhayu remain in power. I personaly dont care much as I am neither Israeli nor iranian, but I believe in humans' potantial to live in peace side by side.will that ever happen? I dunno

it's always interesting to see how you see the negatives only on the israeli side, and first of all only on the israeli right-wing politicians. i hardly know somebody else who lacks so much of grasping the complexity of the middle east conflict and of seeing the whole picture as you lack. as almost everybody knows: it needs two to have a dispute and it needs two to have peace. and yet you always blame only israelis, first of all right-wing israelis. what about the mistakes of the israeli left? what about the mistakes of mr. abbas? have you never been busy to analyse his mistakes of the last years? if not, why not? if yes, why don't you mention it? why do you always wear blinkers? you have an obsession of being occupied only with the mistakes of israel's right-wing. i wonder what's the reason for this obsession....

So Bibi is for "Two-States". Never going to happen. To cede Judea for an Arab handshake will only lead to civil war in Israel not peace. The Arabs are naming streets and squares after terrorists. Peace with Jewkillers? Never.

Well,that's rather easy,saul,Mr. Netanyahu has spent the past 20 years of his political career with thwarting any kind of attempts to bring more trust and better relations between Israelis and Palestinians. And he did so to an extent,that he became even too radical for solid right-winger Ariel Sharon,which left Sharon with no other choice but to leave the Likud party. Even now he made it clear,that the ordered settlement freeze would only be a temporary one,and after 10 months,Israel would start buliding again in the West Bank like before. Sorry,but that is certainly not the language of a trustworthy man,who means it honest with his peaceful intentions. Not even to mention Netanyahus (pretty miserable) role in the build up to the assasination of then PM Rabin,where he lead the campaign of hatred and incitement against the later slain PM. Once in a while, people may change from Saulus into Paulus,but honestly,I see absolutely no indication for that here...

have you heard about the brits who have urged elton john not to give a concert in tel aviv? they are all academics. for sure their english grammar is brilliant. and yet they are stupid enough to urge a boycott although everybody (with more or less good english) knows that by such a boycott also arabs in israel are hit since not only jewish israelis but also arab israelis will be deprived of good music. so, i can only repeat myself: main thing the heart is good.

you forgot to mention at least two names: menachem begin and ariel sharon. about those two were said similar things, first of all abroad, as there are said about mr. lieberman. and yet, at the end, it was mr. begin who made peace with egypt. and it was mr. sharon who tried to offer gaza to the palestinians. (it was not his fault that the palestinians didn't accept the offer but prefered to turn gaza into a terrorist base.) the past decades show that the world doesn't like right-wing israeli politicians who don't speak out in a politically correct way, although exactly those politicians are often the brave ones when it comes to making concessions in favour of peace. the question is: why is the world so much against them? is the world against peace in middle east?

more intolerable

and after a court assigned damages that ruined him and his family, he would think many times before calling a minister 'thug' again. But then Israel is no normal democracy..

because philosophically, he is no different!

education does not prevent from stupidity. look for example at the islamist terrorists. how many of them were educated. how many of them had visited universities. and yet they did not respect life, neither their own one nor the ones of others. so, please stop blaming people when their english isn't as good as yours. main thing is that the heart is good. the grammar isn't this important.

"syria is not ready for peace ... " (CJK) Right! Offering us to negotiate is not enough. Who would be so naive as to talk peace with an enemy? If Assad Jr. really wants his Golan back, let him first behave not as as an enemy but, at the very least, as if he couldn't care less. Too bad he hasn't grasped yet that we only make peace with friends. We would then gladly hand him back the Golan - to the last inch. And then, we "shall dwell each under his vine and under his fig tree ... " Micah 4.

It is not possible to make peace with people who want you dead. What does Assad gain from making peace with Israel? He will only alienate his puppet masters in Iran. He weakens himself in the eyes of Hizbalah. Arab leaders cannot afford to make peace with Israel and hope to remain in Power. Livni was given an opportunity to join the Netanyahu government and rejected the offer. Are we so quick to forget the dismal record of Olmert and Kadima? We already have a two state solution, Israel and Jordan. Why not reach an agreement with the Jordanians to the east and the Egyptians to the west. Neither Egypt or Jordan wants anything to do with the Palestinians. So how can we expect to live in peace with a group of people who are rejected by their fellow Arabs? What makes anyone think the Palestinians will keep any agreement we make? The last 60 plus years and the 1400 years before prove you can't make peace with a people whose Religion teaches them not to be ruled by infidels

Absolute agree,Yoel. But who knows what Netanyahu wants ??

Like chamberleins of the world, defeatist, dhimis.

please explain, give some proof for your words.

citizens of Moroccan descent. No way Jose

Its now the time to revisit some premises that created the kind of given as to the affinities Israel espouses in diplomacy. Liberman comes from a cultural bacground, well defined by Tolstoy's styories about the Cosaks, that with the "Orient", you have to show POWER, in talks and behaviour: that's what they understand. That's exactly the irony of history: Ben Gurion's worst nightmare was that Israel will turn to LEVANTISATION. Those sleepless nights were brought to Ben Gurion when Goldman from Geneva annouced to him and Golda that he Goldman has enough resources to help the hundred of thousands Moroccan Jews to finally realise their dreams and immigrate to the Land of their forfathers. Now, Ben Gurion was freightened by the possibility that those Jews will be able to sally the blood of the Ashkenazes, and might destroy the Yeshuv's WHITE's content. But mostly he, Ben Gurion was afraid of the levantisation of Israel culture and diplomacy.Well, I don't know what happened,but the IRONY

Racist, nationalist, loud mouthed populists always attract a certain thrilled audience, generally among the less well educated. Whether it's Mussolini or Milosevic, Lindbergh or Lieberman, they all come on the same big way - and end up in the same discredited way not long afterwards. It is always surprising to hear Israelis praise him, then of course he offers simplistic, feel-good bombast for the simpler souls in the room. The fact that just about every foreign government avoids him like the plague and he cannot do his job as FM matters not to them. They love his repressive policies for Israeli Arabs and threats to neighbouring countries and allies, makes them feel tall and important for a day. Outside Israel, he is widely seen as a buffoon who lacks the education, skill, training, temperament or common sense to be a government spokesman, let alone a minister, least of all a Foreign Minister. His value to Israel is wholly negative, indeed embarrassing.

The only reason Lieberman's statement seem to stick out is that he is the only member of the government who behaves normally. While the rest of our officials grovel like pathetic dolts at the feet of anyone who will listen (a method of statecraft that is peculiar to Israel alone), Lieberman behaves like his country's honor is actually worth something.

A barking dog do not bite!!! Only it can harm his owner's interests

This is what Lieberman is doing? Promote our nation? You must be joking. And about the broken record of the Oslo accords not having brought peace, Neither Israel nor the palestinians respected them from the start. The accords didn't change a thing except give arguments to demagogic leaders.

The next election is not due for several years. The way things are looking now the racist Arab parties will lose votes while Kadima struggles to hold on to what it has got. Yisrael Beiteinu will do well as usual. Quality of life issues will be very important and the security situation will probably be a lot better than it is now. It is almost certain that there will be a lot of new immigrants from all parts of the Jewish world.

refued to join a coalition. Where did you get "you ALL love" from? Cant wait for the source of your survey. You wouldnt be confabulating now would you.?

If you have to start firing ministers because you think they will vote against you everytime you want to pass policies be it peace talks or anything else your giving up democracy and creating a system where the leader personally appoints yes men who are going to say thats a wonderful idea to every proposal he puts forward. Liberman is 1 man who happens to have different view to the mainstream. Does Yoel Marcus want us remove anybody thats not pro peace process? If he does he wants a pro peace process dictaitorship. Although he might not be the most popular minister to some people he has been a breath of fresh air for Israeli politics. He hasn't been afraid to propose whats not politically correct or mainstream therefore creating new thinking. You don't have to like him or his ideas but a healthy democracy is one where there are other points of view put forward and sometimes adopted. Generally the coalition system has made Israeli politics stale so Liberman is good for politics.

so far in 62 years it is the arabs /muslims who have refused any kind of peace !

Israel will no doubt use an American attack on Iran as a convenient excuse to attack Lebanon and Syria.

you talk about refugees with a certain blindness! Out of all the massive arab states, tiny Israel has no obligation to absorb the socalled refugees.they are UN and arab quaranteened populations that instead of being absorbed by their loathing brothers, are kept in not so bad 'camps' which are actually no so bad cities. The UN benefits by having staff and billions flowing into these developed semi-independent towns and kept alive only for the purposes of destroying Israel...some day. sorry to inform you, but the millions of Jews kicked out of arab lands with confiscated wealth and property and successfully absorbed by Israel are the tradeoffs for the not so poor duped arab refugees who still think they will have free ride back into Israel. they lost the war and wars and return ticket. truth be told, arabs have no respect for fellow arabs- the only common goals they share is Israel's destruction. read: Jean Peters- From Time Immorial. Why not visit Israel to see the reality!

He wants the status quo. Therefore, he keeps Lieberman.

....because we all know, that Mr. Netanyahu is interested in EVERYTHING BUT a fair peace agreement between Israelis and Palestinians.

I don't get it, you all love Lieberman because 'he speak the truth' and he 'says it like it is' yet i did not recall this region descending into a war mood so quickly based on so few words. Any person (from any country) who speaks like this nowadays would and should immediately be compared to the WWII era statements made by the bad guys and sacked or arrested. Inciting racial hatred is easy, inciting peace isn't so it just shows who is lazy in the region.

It wasn't Lieberman that uttered that rightiest slant, it was Mr Yoel Marcus himself.

it should be clear that we ALL enjoy reading it BECAUSE of the perspective it provides. some of us for the opportunity it offers to read objective reporting of news and events, and others, like yourself, for the opportunity it offers to rant, rave, and curse at those you consider traitors for reporting the truth. what is it with that anyway? why does the truth intimidate you so? but anyway, that's beside the point. point IS, we each enjoy haaretz for what it offers, don't we jeff?

a national emergency government is one that i have advocated for since the last elections. syria is not ready for peace no matter how much some would like to see such peace accomplished. any attack by syria or hezbollah on israel should be considered an existentila threat and responded to accordingly. it is doubtful that the u.s. will launch an attack on iran. however, should the u.s. decide to launch an attack on iran, israel will not sit on the sidelines as she did in 1991.

i think the three no's of khartoum still play a big role in the present stalemate since these three no's led to the ongoing israeli "occupation". mr. lieberman may be the neighbourhood bully. however, mr. abbas doesn't behave much better by his ongoing stubbornness. i wonder whether any israeli foreign minister will be able to stop this stubbornness of mr. abbas. as we know, mrs. livni wasn't able to do so during her time as foreign minister. i think if peace shall be reached, the palestinian attitude vis-à-vis israel has to be changed towards a more positive one. what means: the palestinian hate-education has to be stopped.

I have to agree with #5, Jasper and not with Yoel Marcus. To follow up on your dog analogy having a large scary watch dog serves us better than a yappy lap dog.

I cannot believe that the Jewish people and their leaders did not learn anything from the last 2000 years of persecution. Don't you get it? No one of your neighbors want peace.You will never have peace from the people that want to exterminate you. The only thing you have is that piece of land. It is no need to apologias to no one for your right to have it and I agree with Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman no land for peace. How much peace have got by giving up all the land so far? The sad reality is that if you do not fight for your land you will end up living at your enemies discretion. Please wake up, leave Lieberman alone, he is right diplomacy does not work with these people.

There are no hypotheticals here. Actions speak volumes. The fact that Lieberman single handedly scuttled the political apparatus of the Israeli government and succeeded in turning Israel into a quasi-pariah state whithin the span of one year without Netanyahu putting any brakes on him is proof positive the latter approves of Lieberman. Ergo- Netenyahu is not interested in peace agreement with the Palestinians. There is no way to parse this conclusion. Any notions on his part that the only peace agreement he will accept and dictate to the Palestinians is Pax Israeliana are purely delusional and merit no further attention. He will always find a substitute to lieberman that has the same worldview. Only the US couls pour cold water on his head, but alas, it is still looking for a bucket.

Grammar and spelling is so much better than it is among the Right. Is this by any chance an indication of the prevailing aptitude among Rightwingers like yourself? And doesn't this also suggest the possibility that the Rightwing movement in Israel is one that consists largely of the uneducated?

Pure radical right? Seems like anyone who disagrees with the Labor/Meretz agenda is labeled as such. Lame. Maybe the folks who spit this poison should look themselves in the mirror. Try removing the name-calling (including radical, right, left, extreme, thugs, etc) and sticking with the facts and there's nothing left. The author omits that Lieberman said that if Mubarak refuses to come to Israel he can go to hell.. and he's right! Why should Israel be treated like a disease. He also said that if Syria starts a war, it won't just lose but its leaders will lose power. Again he's right. Why is the author so upset? It's about time Israel had a leader that stood up for his country instead of inviting more abuse. It'd be nice if folks like the author spent even a fraction of the time and energy they spend on demonizing Lieberman and a significant portion of their country to finding ways to help protect, improve, and promote their nation.

The problem is that the Israeli public elected a group of parties that in coalition cannot even discuss anything that might lead to peace. Israel's current coalition would collapse if serious discussions started. Shas walks if Jerusalem is even discussed. Get rid of Lieberman and his part of the coalition walks. Israel has a coalition that cannot stay in power if peace is seriously discussed. And if Jasper is correct, Obama's problem is that he hasn't threatened both Israel and the Palestinians with annihilation if they don't come to the table and agree to his own planned peace proposal. And then encouraged Emanuel to rip off Bibi's head and sh*# down his neck. That is Lieberman's idea of diplomacy, like an American football coach getting the team up for the kick off.

Vicious Attacks of the Israeli Left Undermine Israel's Foreign Policy Israeli Left has completely alienated the "Russians" in Israel with their persistent persecution of the Russian Jews since the alia started in 1968. Their attacks on Lieberman greatly strengthen his respect among the immigrants. Israeli police is using all legal and illegal means to persecute Lieberman and the rich Russian Jews , even cooperating with the KGB. The Left has no appreciation that the Russian Jews saved Israel, made the country a technological miracle, and removed any doubts about Israel's survival. Lieberman hadn't learned from Ariel Sharon how to turn his reputation around. Foreign ministers do not say what they think even if they state obvious facts.

I would think this veteran Haaretz journalist knows what he's saying and the uncertainty about this present government's policies and public relations with its Arab neighbours in quite unsettling. It's really shameful that the continual negativity espoused by these officials is contributing to Israel's deteriorating status around the world. In fact, I dare PM Benjamin Netanyahu give Yoel Marcus an interview as PM Ariel Sharon gave an interview regarding his objectives for the country.

I'd venture to guess that Marcus is part of the crowd accusing the political right of demonizing the NIF. Yet examine this quote from Marcus, " Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman acts like the neighborhood bully; his style and statements suit the extreme right's worst thugs" What self righteous hypocrisy. It's time the readers of this newspaper speak out against it, and begin to engage in a serious dialog about how to best defend Israel against the international campaign against it.

Livni is, and was as FM a polished professional with European instincts and outlook. And what did it get her? She was seen by Arab eyes as weak which led both Meshaal and Nazarella to test things in summer of 2006. Arab diplomacy is much more akin to dominance displays of dogs than anyone would like to admit. A dog owner will understand this immediately. If you don't snarl back when snarled at, you will be tested further. Lieberman doesn't make the rules of the ME, but he plays by them. Keep in mind that peace is simply the absence of shooting. A desired state, but not at ANY price.

Current Israeli government is perfect example of a government not speaking in one voice,which could be the result of confusion or inability to make deceisions.

No matter who is in the coalition government, Jerusalem is off the negotiation table. Not to mention the refugee issue which Israeli leaders pretend that it is a forgotten issue. On the other hand, no Palestinian leader will sign a deal without a solution to these issues. The only hope is for the UN to force a peace agreement that both will hate, so leaders on both side will not be blamed for.

Right wing left wing its all the same mess

Mr.Yoel Marcus; he is best minister Israel ever get. he speak of the fact. no one in israel ask the opinion of leftist like you all you leftist are destictive and i am afraid you and your friend destroy israel and one more time we will be home less. josi belin still trying as hard as any one of you, for god sack stop.