I have no brother

Yes, what does the UN say in your link about the issue of Jordan as trustee? Absolutely nothing, as you well know. Nice try. I participate on Talkback because I dislike the distortions of Jewish and Zionist history by propagandists. I end up, though, having to expose you to historians like Khalidi to correct your distortions of Palestinian history, which you freely twist to serve the apologist agenda for Jordan that you have embraced. Way to go.

In the final analysis, they didn't and Jordan took on the role as trustee. Furthermore here is what the UN says.. They ARE an authoritative source http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/palestine/ch12.pdf //Jordan, for its part, moved to formalize its control of the Old City; however, Jordanian legislation indicated that this action did not prejudice the final settlement of the Palestinian issue.//

They always have been sticklers for the Law, upholding the UN Charter and it's instruments. // On 23 January 1950, Israel declared Jerusalem its capital and established government agencies in the western part of the city. Jordan, for its part, moved to formalize its control of the Old City; however, Jordanian legislation indicated that this action did not prejudice the final settlement of the Palestinian issue.// http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/palestine/ch12.pdf In the final analysis, there's no UNSC resolution condemning Jordan's annexation. Why not? Do you think they just forgot?

The Arab League Sessions records you cite in your #136 clearly state that Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, and Syria wanted to EXPEL Jordan for its "unilateral annexation"; they accepted a "compromise position" from Iraq that simply "viewed" Jordan as the trustee of the area. Yet you claim in your #186 that Jordan annexed AS trustee, knowing FULL WELL Jordan did no such thing and that only SUBSEQUENT to the annexation did the Arab League attempt to limit Jordan to trustee status. Khalidi comments that "through the newly established Arab League these states attempted to restrain Abdullah, albeit to little effect in the end" (Iron Cage, 2007, pp. 129-130).

citing what didn't eventuate is straw. Jordan annexed as a Trustee, in keeping with the UN. There's no UNSC resolution condemning the annexation because however it came about, it came about legally. Jordan built no illegal settlements, it built no separation barriers on Palestinian land, it didn't encourage Jordanians to live there. It did nothing in the end to make the territory a permanent Jordanian fixture.

Jordan in the end, was forced to annex only as a trustee, in compliance with the the UN. Which is why there is no UNSC resolution against Jordan's annexation. Likewise there is no UNSC condemnation on the Invasion of Palestine May 15th 1948. Because Israel was no longer a part of Palestine on May 15th 1948. The Arab states had a right to defend what remained of the non-state entity of Palestine from rampant Israeli aggression it inherited from Plan Dalet, starting the War of Independence.

The Knesset, whatever they said, is not an authoritative source for Palestinian history, nor is it their function to be. I suggest you do your research in works of historical scholarship instead; I find Khalidi, Tessler, and Kimmerling useful. If you have revisionist views of Palestinian history, I am sure Khalidi in particular would be eager to learn about them, given his pre-eminence in the field and what I have explained to you about his views on these issues.

"Under Jordanian control, the Jordanian authorities saw virtually any independent Palestinian organization as subversive and a threat to the unity of the kingdom ... " (Der Zweifler) And for a very good, logical and legitimate reason: After the Jordanian annexation of the West Bank - to which Ben Gurion had agreed even before the 1948 war - Jordan having granted full citizenship to the Palestinian refugees, there was no reason at all for the king to accept *independent* Palestinian political activities on Jordanian soil.

Jordan was forced, by the Arab states to comply with the UN.

Tessler, in essential agreement with Khalidi, writes that "the Jordanian monarch was bitterly opposed by the Palestinian rank and file, and also by the All-Palestine government in Gaza. These Palestinian critics accused Abdullah of treason and charged his 'land grabbing' scheme would cost them most of what little remained of Palestine. Abdullah was opposed by the leaders of virtually every other Arab state" (Tessler, 1994, p. 277).

I suggest you stop trying to rewrite Palestinian history. Khalidi explains that Abdullah organized a conference at Jericho to which he only INVITED pro-Hashemite Palestinians from the notable class who then made a "demand" for unification of the West Bank with Jordan. Khalidi recognizes the Palestinians at the conference were not representative and that it led to "ruthless" suppression of any Palestinian independent political activities, not a trusteeship in Palestinian interests as you claim. Do you read Palestinian historians like Khalidi? Jordan was in fact the only Arab government among the Arab League to refuse to recognize the All-Palestine government in Gaza.

"Not true. "Abdullah was eager to expand the borders of his country...h.." So what? In the final call, Jordan was forced to adhere to the League of Arab States and annex only as a trustee. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/legsess.html There is no UNSC resolution condemning Jordan's annexation because it was within the guidelines of the UN. Jordan annexed AT THE REQUEST OF the Palestinians. Here http://www.jcpa.org/art/knesset6.htm Take it up with the JCPA or the Knesset.

Not true. "Abdullah was eager to expand the borders of his country...his designs on Palestine were well established even before the outbreak of the 1947-48 War" (Tessler, A History of the Israeli Palestinian Conflict, 1994, p. 276). This was not a big secret. Under Jordanian control, "the Jordanian authorities saw virtually any independent Palestinian organization as subversive and a threat to the unity of the kingdom, and ruthlessly combated political activity of most kinds, making the West and East Banks of Jordan highly inhospitable for independent Palestinian political action" (Khalidi, Iron Cage, 2007, p. 136). Is this your idea of protecting Palestinian interests?

to comply with the UN notion of protecting non-state entities, by being only a trustee. Israel agreed Jordan would occupy (read the armistice) Jordan did NOT .. build illegal settlements, separation barrier, bulldoze homes. It adhered to the law as a Trustee. There is no UNSC resolution condemning Jordan's annexation. NIL! NADA! Israel's unilateral annexation was declared invalid by the UNSC. It has built illegal settlements, claimed it for it's own. It has not protected the "territories occupied" (res 242) As for territory acquired by war. Read the Peace Agreements between Israel and Jordan/Egypt. They are what Res 242 called for. Israel was required to give 'acknowlegement of' 'state' 'territories occupied' and 'withdraw from' them. It has peace with Jordan and Egypt. Israel has not fully complied in respect to the other Arab 'states' so it does not have peace. The occupier cannot change the status of 'territories occupied' (Laws of War - Art 55) http://wp.me/PDB7k-6r

some of the land." Even though you can't, you'll keep repeating the propaganda, over and over, without ever bothering to learn the truth of the matter. //"withdrawl from occupied territories" was the operative phrase// It was actually "territories occupied in the recent conflict".. Never the less one important operative word is "occupied"... Now, read the Laws of War in respect to "occupied" territories....Article 55. " let me know if you dispute this and we can go on from there" We can go from there HERE: http://wp.me/PDB7k-6r

I stated in #173: "Please show me where my post states that 'acquisition of territory in a defensive war is permissible.'" What part of that statement do you not understand? Differences concern issues such as whether unilateral withdrawal is required. By the way, with regard to your #136, Rashid Khalidi states that in Jordan's annexation "King Abdullah immediately acted to further his own nation-state interests," not those of the Palestinian people (Iron Cage, 2007, p. 135).

"[Sarid's] paranoia and detachment from his supposed religious roots ... " (Justin White) Here is, for your information, another paranoiac Jew who was detached "from his supposed religious roots." "We must either have a Palestinian state in our neighborhood, or we will become a Palestinian state." Yehoshafat Harkabi (1921-1994), head of Military Intelligence (1955-1959), then professor and director of the Institute of International Relations and Middle East Studies at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. "Harkabi was the only commander of military intelligence to have had a good command of Arabic, in addition to genuinely professional knowledge of Arab civilization and history, and of Islam." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yehoshafat_Harkabi

is inadmissible. "I stated there are different consequences depending on whether the acquisition is offensive or defensive." Not in law. It is inadmissible for a very simple reason. The civilian population might not have voted for or even been able to vote for the regime in power at the time war was waged. "The law is a subtle tool, not a mallet. I will outline the differences pending a response" ?? The 'difference' should be the same, regardless of a response... "If the prohibition against acquiring territory by conquest were applicable equally to offensive and defensive wars, it would guarantee the potential aggressor nation that any land it lost in war would be returned. That is why legal scholars like Stephen Schwebel..." ...should read the Peace Treaties between Israel & Egypt/Jordan, both of which prove him, like yourself, to be searching for justification rather than truth.

Ironically much of what Sarid writes in this article is autobiographical. His paranoia and detachment from his supposed religious roots has caused him to castigate not the settlers, but rather himself. The Anti-Self Defamation League www.tamingkorach.com

Please show me where my post states that "acquisition of territory in a defensive war is permissible." I stated there are different consequences depending on whether the acquisition is offensive or defensive. The law is a subtle tool, not a mallet. I will outline the differences pending a response.

The same as "My country, right or wrong", love for everyone is disguised assent to evil.

'occupied ' territories.. It is illegal under the Laws of War for an occupier to change the status of occupied territories. Article 55 There is nothing in res 242 about 'negotiating borders' NOT ONE WORD. All the parties were Sovereign states. Israel has yet to fully comply with the requirement, thus it has no peace agreement between itself and Lebanon or Syria. http://wp.me/pDB7k-hR

It is sad news for Mr.Sarid. Mr.Kami #141 has reminded him that W. Palestine is his , not Mr. Sarid patrimony so Mr. Sarid must get out. Now Mr.Sarid has no brothers, neither he has patrimony. It means he is a Wondering Jew. He was a Wandering Jew for 2000 yr. & he will be. He lived in Poland for 800 yr & left for Sobibor, he lived in Germany before Germany existed & they gave him visa to Auschwitcz. He lived in Ukraine & he is still there for ever, deep in Earth. He created Hungarian modern state but they could only provide him with one way ticket albeit free. He did not live in Japan but sorrry ,Japan is for Japenese.Iraq was good place but he was expelled. What is left ? USA! The problem with USA is that all of Americans are settlers. Their patrimony is in Europe & Africa while the real Americans are dead. How Americans can be his brothers? Mr.Sarid never spelled clearly who are his brothers. I believe his brother is Mr. Goldstone. I do not mean insult. It is a fact.

So many Israelis are trying to take distance from what those settlers have bee doing all this time against palestinians. Well, you can't do that, those people are the citizens of Israel.

So many Israelis are trying to take distance from what those settlers have bee doing all this time against palestinians. Well, you can't do that, those people are the citizens of Israel.

"Settlers: There are orders and laws that we won`t follow (Haaretz)"

I enjouy your wrath and it sounds almost like the prophets, but Western Palestine is also our patrimony so you must leave it as well, or else you will be confused with the settlers that you profess to hate

I enjouy your wrath and it sounds almost like the prophets, but Western Palestine is also our patrimony so you must leave it as well, or else you will be confused with the settlers that you profess to hate

As regarsa the expulsion of JEWS from Parts of Palestine please remember that the region,in fact the the entire muslim world had no history of ill treatment of jews.In fact,when the jews were being persecuted in Europe,they found safe haven in the muslim world.The hostile attitude of Arabs towards Israeili jews is a direct reaction to the creation of Israel and all that it meant for the Palestinians in future.

With a brother like you , Yossi, who needs family.

... in a defensive war is permissible. The overwhelming majority of actual international lawyers, however, disagree. This, for example, from Lung-chu Chen, "An Introduction to Contemporary International Law " (2nd ed., New Haven, 2000), p.122: "Although a minority dissents, it is increasingly conceded that contemporary international law has no scope for the acquisition of territory through conquest or subjugation. It has been asserted that the acquisition of territory resulting from self-defense against an aggressor state is still permissible, since self-defense remains permissible. That argument, however, misconceives the scope of self-defense". Or this from Martin Dixon, "Textbook on International Law" (6th ed., Oxford, 2007), p. 161: "Prior to 1945 ... the use of force was perfectly lawful and title to territory acquired through conquest was quite common ... From the moment aggressive force became unlawful it has been impossible for a state to acquire title to territory by conquest ... In similar vein, it is clear that a state that exercises force in (alleged) self-defence is under a duty to return (or retreat from) any territory of the aggressor state which it has occupied ... In such circumstances, although the initial use of force by the defending state would not have been in violation of the principles of international law embodied in the [U.N.] Charter, the subsequent retention of territory when the threat has passed would be unlawful".

nor does the body of your post. Geneva applies according to almost all jurists with any expertise on such matters. It also applies as far as Israel is concerned, as testified by their own legal authorities. As for #108 "israel is a direct successor to the 1922 mandate" Israel did not exist in 1922, and Israel is not the legal successor state to the entire Palestine Mandate. It was founded on part of it only, and the rest was designated for an Arab state, which overrode earlier designations of a Jewish state within Palestine. It is true that that Arab state never came into existence, but that does not mean that Israel magically comes into possession of the whole by default. I am not aware of any country or legal authority which accepts this idea of yours: indeed, I'm not even aware that it is a claim made officially by Israel herself. Well?

It is you who should have made no mention of Olmert's offer to Abbas, until you learned the facts. If you had, you would know that Abbas did not turn down Olmert's offer. To the contrary. In 2009, Mr Olmert offered generously to Mahmoud Abbas and it was the best offer Abbas or Arafat had ever been proffered. He did not offer return of Palestinian refugees to Israel, but he proposed a real breakthrough. The myth is that Abbas rejected the offer. In fact, Abbas said with that offer (which was 93%of the West Bank and all of Gaza) "we can have peace in 2 days." The Palestinians were ecstatic and so was the EU. The Quartet agreed, and requested Israel make the offer binding. It never did. And that was the end of it.

Whatever you think of the politics behind the settlement program or legalities etc at the end of the day the settlers are jews who see that their government is abandoning them and they may loose their homes thanks to politics. They are not politicians they are ordinary people with homes. Forget this is the arab / Israel conflict for a minute and ask yourself how would you feel if the government was going to take your homes because they wanted to make a deal with a foreign country. Look at them as INDIVIDUALS don't just brand them settlers and treat look at them as some kind of dangerous animal who should be made extinct.

... in a defensive war is permissible. The overwhelming majority of actual international lawyers, however, disagree. This, for example, from Lung-chu Chen, "An Introduction to Contemporary International Law " (2nd ed., New Haven, 2000), p.122: "Although a minority dissents, it is increasingly conceded that contemporary international law has no scope for the acquisition of territory through conquest or subjugation. It has been asserted that the acquisition of territory resulting from self-defense against an aggressor state is still permissible, since self-defense remains permissible. That argument, however, misconceives the scope of self-defense". Or this from Martin Dixon, "Textbook on International Law" (6th ed., Oxford, 2007), p. 161: "Prior to 1945 ... the use of force was perfectly lawful and title to territory acquired through conquest was quite common ... From the moment aggressive force became unlawful it has been impossible for a state to acquire title to territory by conquest ... In similar vein, it is clear that a state that exercises force in (alleged) self-defence is under a duty to return (or retreat from) any territory of the aggressor state which it has occupied ... In such circumstances, although the initial use of force by the defending state would not have been in violation of the principles of international law embodied in the [U.N.] Charter, the subsequent retention of territory when the threat has passed would be unlawful".

A Secular state, a Muslim state, and a Haredi state. Also on the topic of Cain and Abel, one of my favorites; Cain murdered his brother Abel, a blind sheperd. Then the Lord cursed Cain in that who-ever harmed him would suffer seven-fold. Then Set was born, and eventually he trapped Cain in a gilded box that couldn't open (sound familiar?) That act unleashed the curse of the biblical flood. My opinion is the "Ashkenazi" jews fit the role of Cain in the analogy, and the "Settlers" are more like Set.

in your latest attempt to distort reality. Hearsay is not the way to describe the firm opinion of Israel's very own legal counsel on the applicability of Geneva to the territories and the illegality of civilian settlements therein. Here, just for you.....!!! !

The answer would obviously be: some are and some aren't, depends mainly on what they think of the idea of peaceful coexistence.

All men are your brothers. Even those your tribe kills at the rate of one per day. The answer is to stop hating and learn to embrace your brother.

israel was to withdraw "from territories" in return for peace and quiet. that has never been on offer from the arabs. if you dispute that we can add this to our discussion.

"knowing as i did the unsatisfactory nature of the 1967 lines...." lord caradon explaning resolution 242.and his wish the 1967 lines were not to be the final borders.

"There must be someone who could lead at this critical hour,or are we heading to a civil war ?" - Self Hating Jew Many welcome a civil war, there is active sedition in the IDF and Settler organizations promoting it. "Are there no leaders in Israel? Capable of leading the so called "majority" back to the path Israel of old maintained ?" - ibid Those in the 'majority' despise the Israel of old and are leading it in the opposite direction.

he did not want israel to withdraw from all the occupied territory. "withdrawl from occupied territories" was the operative phrase. again the united nations representative lord caradon(who wrote the draft) made it amply clear he meant israel should keep some of the land.let me know if you dispute this and we can go on from there.

the principle of one territory is unarguable !! the geneva convention cannot apply ! no matter what politics are represented as argument . in fact the lot of arabs in israel is not only better than any arab country but have been benefitted by israeli rule by quantum leaps ! no de jure treaty supports any of your contentions !

It is because of people such as this, that Israelis will one day realize the fallacy of turning a blind eye to the oppressions being meted out to mostly innocent Palestinians by these settlers; and then will they unite to meet with the Palestinians and negotiate for a Peaceful compromise of the problems facing the two peoples. This is the hope of every peace loving person, Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Hindu or Atheist.

made it very clear he left out the definite article so israel could negotiate over the west bank.he left out "the" in describing the disputed land. the three "nos" in khartoum put a stop to all talks. and cj stop the drama stick to the facts.

I HAVE BEEN HEARING THE VOICES OF WISDOM FROM SOME ISRAELI THINKER S FOR 20 YEARS OR MORE ,OSLO IN MIND , NO CHANGE . REALITY ON THE LAND OF PALESTINE.IS MORE AND MORE CRUEL SEPARATION WALL ,WAR CRIMES AND KILLING WOUNDED YOUNG MEN INJURED BY GUN SHOT WOUND ,RUN AGAIN AND AGAIN ON HIS BODY.THIS IS ISRAEL YOU LIVE IN IT IS NOT NEW .THIS WAS ISRAEL SINCE THE BIRTH THERE IS NO CHANGE OF IDENTITY.IT WAS CREATED ON THE NATIVE LAND OF THE PALESTINIAN.ISRAEL IS THE SETTLER NATION,OF TODAY UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS THE SETTLER NATION OF YESTERDAY.ASK THE NATIVE AMERICANS HOW THEIR ANSCESTOR DIE .THAT IS THE REASON WHY OBAMA CAN NOT STOP THIS TRAGEDY.MAY BE YOU SARID CAN HELP IF YOU FEEL MORE RESPONSIBLE

Just like in the story of Pesach, there are 4 types of sons and like it or not, we are all brothers. It is important that we speak out when our brothers behave in evil ways. We can even disown them when they get way out of hand by putting them in prison. This is called "the law" that some of our brethren refuse to follow. They put what they think is G-d's law over that and for this they bring shame on all of us......

What is a settlement? Are Ramot and Gilo settlements? Is the Jewish quarter of the old city a settlement? Are Ramat Eshkol, the French Hill and Mount Scopus defined as settlements? Are Efrat/Gush Etzion settlements? Is Maale Adumim a settlement? Are the towns established by the labor government in the Jordan Valley defined as settlements? All of the above were established by the labor party in the 1960?s and 1970?s. When you utilize the term settlements are you referring to the same thing that the UN, The Palestinian Authority (PA), Europe, The U.S. State Department and Administration all call ?settlements?? The vast majority of the Israeli public is in favor of granting the Palestinians a state in the majority of the West Bank! In 1992 Rabin won the elections and in 1999 Barak won the elections both offering major territorial concessions to the Palestinians.

The far right, radical Jewish settlers and their financiers all over the world are Israel's most threatening problem. They will self-destruct the Jewish State before any external enemy. Perhaps Yossi Sarid and other moderate and leftist Israelis should do more than write but they prefer complaining over the hard work of campaigns and elections. The Bibi Netanyaus of the world will not life a finger against Jewish radicals so get busy!

Your claim that Iranian proxy armies have taken over Lebanon and Hamas and all threaten to destroy Israel is ridiculous. Hyperbole is not designed to be taken seriously and yours will be given no serious hearing in decision making or world opinion. Hezbollah is a Shia organization and a natural ally of Iran. But Lebanon is not. Gazans are Sunnis and Arab Sunnis hate and fear Iranian Shias more than they hate Israel. The IDF has claimed a Hamas rocket was made in Iran, but deliberately offered no evidence that it came from Iran. But Hamas will probably accept help from anyone to try to force Israel to lift the near genocidal blockade Israel has imposed on Gaza. Israel cannot attempt to starve 1.4 million people and expect that population to acquiesce. A Palestinian state in now occupied territory will be side by side and face one of the most sophisticated powerful armies in the world. And you would worry about Israeli security? Don't worry, you can all gather at Masada.

"cj uses only facts that suit his purpose" And my purpose is? I'm sure you can make something up. "the united nations resolution made it clear the west bank was to be the subject of negotiations" Cite the Article where is says 'negotiations' FACT is, it DOESN'T!! "as to the withdrawl from the territories the resolution did not use the definite article" Uh huh. So what? Israel agreed to the wording "territories OCCUPIED in the recent conflict" More? here you go .... http://wp.me/pDB7k-hR

"most of them live in legal settlements" All are illegal. Just because Antony Julius and alan Dershowitz and a handful of other say it. Almost every international legal counsel has said the opposite.Illegal! Most recently the ICJ made this perfectly clear.

the united nations resolution made it clear the west bank was to be the subject of negotiations.as to the withdrawl from the territories the resolution did not use the definite article.

annexation for two very good reasons. 1st It was annexed with the agreement of the Palestinians. Knesset document : http://www.jcpa.org/art/knesset6.htm 2nd It was annexed as a trustee. Insisted upon by the other Arab States (in order that it be in accordance with the UN Notion of protecting non-state entities). Jewish Virtual Library document : http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/legsess.html (Sessions: 12 - 12.1 - 12.11) Re Geneva Conventions. Res 242 said and Israel agreed to the wording "territories OCCUPIED in the recent conflict" http://wp.me/pDB7k-hR However the reason the GC's apply because the wars were between 'states', OVER the non-state entity of Palestine. The Arab States were the other High Contracting Parties. The armistices and peace agreements have only been between 'states', aka High Contracting Powers.

Bravo Ramiro! Superbly well said, and the kind of truth required to refute the constant drumbeat of Israeli propaganda.

Funny, Esther, but I recall that Uri Avnery was the biggest Israeli buddy Yasser Arafat had. Avnery chained himself (along with Gordon) inside the Mukata when the IDF was trying to arrest the assassins of Ze'evi. Nothing "destructive" about Avnery? Avnery supported a corrupt Arafat who instead of negotiating peace, paid his lieutenants to carry out terrorist attacks. The same Arafat who instead of building up the PA, took billions of dollars in aid money for the Pals and used it as bribes and hid a lot of it in secret foreign bank accounts. Arafat wasn't the angel savior of the Pals the left made him out to be. He was nothing more than an extremely good crook bent on total control of the Pals and neverending conflict with Israel. Avnery was his bosom buddy. I stand by what I said.

disgusts me!!! i don't consider the entire palestinian population to be terrorists just because a few of them blow up buses. it is very clear to me that most palestinians are good people who just want to live in dignity. the same goes for the settlers, who are very decent people who believe in a cause just like the pals believe in their cause. most of them live in legal settlements and live normal lives. there are a few crazies who taint their good names.

are also NOT people i identify with.

Yosi Sarid what about your 'brothers' called Palestinians who in great majority still favor suicide bombings in Israel and the majority of Israeli Arabs who think sending rockets into Israel by Hamas and Hezbollah is a correct thing to do? Yosi Sarid who are your brothers? It is a pity you continue to onesided condemn your fellow Jews without pointing to the clear wrongs of the Arabs!!! Ha'aretz would also do well to write about meet Barghouti or Hamas. Did they change indeed to peaceloving pacifists or will they soon use terror against civilians again if they consider it justified? Yosi write for once about that!! My brother.

Esther, You, and the rest of some the talkbackers forget that there ain't nuthin' ancestral about the Arab Islamic claims on the Land of Israel. Yeah, lady, they came in 634 C.E. and said it belonged to Allah. Ever since, different Arab Islamic dynasties, one after the other until the Ottoman Turks, who were not Arabs were replaced by the Brits. Once those Gentiles left it became the State of Israel, we returned to our Homeland, the land that was promised to our Forfather Abraham. Apparently that doesn't mean anything to you, but so be it, you still are my sister, and even Yossi is my brother, too.

people like you make me believe that there are still many, many good people on God's earth. may peace be with you and may God bless you always.

Proof... Israel is a Sovereign state. It was recognized by the MAJORITY of the International Community of States. Israel accepted and declared over the borders of res 181. http://tinyurl.com/y8ewves/myths-mis-conceptions-propaganda/#within-frontiers-approved-by-the-General-Assembly-of-the-United-Nations-in-its-Resolution-of-November-29-1947

unscr242/38 confirm that as do the convention at san remo 1920!" Care to cite the passages...I know you can't. Why do you continue to discredit yourself?

The Iranian proxy armies of Hezbollah and Hamas have taken over Lebanon in the north and Gaza in the south. All threaten to destroy Israel. Who will replace the IDF in Judea and Samaria? A secular, democratic and peace-seeking Palestine??! Religious and secular Jews alike recognize that we have no alternative to continued Jewish settlement west of the River Jordan. The settlement freeze is a temporary and tactical political move. Netanyahu knows that either we control Judea and Samaria or Iranian-sponsored terrorists will fill the vacumn and silence any Arab voice of moderation that dares to speak of peaceful coexistence.

"geneva convention DOES NOT APPLY(to territories) " This is not true, as can be seen if you look not only at the text of the Convention, but also at the official commentary, which makes it clear that the last paragraph is there to protect _the native population_ from having their economic and racial position worsened by having the occupiers civilians colonizing the territory around them. Not only does Theodor Meron (the legal counsel of the Israeli Foreign Ministry in September 1967) disagree with your view, but so do the vast majority of International legal jurists. Mr. Meron took note of Israel's diplomatic argument that the West Bank was not "normal" occupied territory, because the land's status was uncertain. The prewar border with Jordan had been a mere armistice line, and Jordan had annexed the West Bank unilaterally. But he rejected that argument for two reasons. The first was diplomatic: the international community would not accept it and would regard settlement as showing "intent to annex the West Bank to Israel." The second was legal, he wrote: "In truth, certain Israeli actions are inconsistent with the claim that the West Bank is not occupied territory." For instance, he noted, a military decree issued on the third day of the war in June said that military courts must apply the Geneva Conventions in the West Bank. So, Israel's own legal counsel at the time of occupation, understood full well what you appear to struggle with. Retrospective wriggle room is simply the mark of a weasel.

you talk of peace and humanity but your region is one of hell and fire.do the daily bombs and bloodbaths of baghdad kirkuk and basra concern you at all? is it only israel that is your line of fire?

My Dear Yossi, I had the privilege some years ago of meeting you and Yuval Steinitz together in his office as part of a JRF delegation from America. I learned a great deal that day and have continued my study each day since. I have realized that we are all responsible for our sisters and brothers and whether one lives in Ramallah is a member of Fatah and is thinking about his brother in Gaza, a member of Hamas or whether one lives in the beautiful hills of northern Israel and is thinking about his sister in Kiryat Arba we are all connected. Peace will only come when we find the means to allow our humanity and that of our Palestinian brothers and sisters to bind us for the better as children of one G-d.

offer to abbas end 2008.why was it refused though it included all the west bank minus 2-4%. the rest being made up of land exchange with israel.

to the problems of the west bank?do we give the palestinians an army?does the idf have a role to play in the west bank? do we just turn round and retreat?what are your suggestions?

What exactly is it that normal, law-abiding civilians in Israel proper are supposed to do against people who consider themselves above the law and are more than capable of acts of violence against their own government and military?

You have a vast number of close ,distant brothers and sisters and neighbors who admire and respect you as a man of values,culture and responsibility,a real statesman.those beyond the hills ofdarkness will dry out and fall,and may GOD blessyou.

You have millions of brothers worldwide including the palestinians. we are your brothes in humanity , in refusing occupation and racism, in refusing fanatism of all types .

israel is a direct successor to the 1922 mandate and the balfour declaration enshrined in san remo 1920 it is a treaty which allows jews to close settle in any part of that mandate the geneva convention DOES NOT APPLY ! even if the land was disputed AS IT REMAINS UP TILL TODAY ONE TERRITORY ! unscr242/338 confirms

As I stated and Haaretz removed for some reason? The Israeli government knew at the outset that it was violating the Geneva Convention by creating civilian settlements. In a secret memo dated October 15, 1968, proposing massive settlement, Defense Minister Moshe Dayan wrote, "Settling Israelis in administered territory, as is known, contravenes international conventions, but there is nothing essential new about that." You say Dayan was "no lawyer". So... Theodor Meron was legal counsel of the Israeli Foreign Ministry in September 1967. He was asked by the Prime Minister's Office for his opinion on the legality of civilian settlement in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. In a cover note to his opinion, he summarized his conclusion: "civilian settlement in the administered territories contravenes the explicit provisions of the Fourth Geneva Convention." As of September 2008, Theodor Meron is a judge of the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia and an emeritus professor at New York University.

Now try to imagine how non-Israeli Jews feel about what is being done in the West Bank and Gaza. Many do not even differentiate between Israel proper and the occupied territories. They are as alienated from Israel and Israelis as Yosi is from the settlers.

dayan was a hero, but no lawyer and no statesman either, he was writing total flim flam as the lawyers who matter in international terms confirm in number he was totally ignorant. unscr242/38 confirm that as do the convention at san remo 1920!

Ben Gurion put a stop to it with the sinking of the Altalena as soon as Israel became a sovereign country. Care to produce any pictures of the "second army" like Hezballah poncing around in Lebanon?

Why dont you look in the mirror ? There were no settlements when the Arabs announced NO PEACE No NEGOTIATIONS NO RECOGNITION of Israel after Arabs lost their war where Nasser boasted he would wipe out the Zionists. Israel has only a few kms at its narrowest point. What did you expect? Making the next Arab war easier for them?

That there were/are no recognised borders was at their insistence. Arabs had controll of the West Bank,Gaza and a significant portion of Jerusalem all ethnically cleansed of Jews. Why was there no Palestinian state that the same Arabs now claim will solve the worlds problems? PS Why dont you have the courtesy to call the Balclutha Scottish settlement of Maori land by its correct name,Iwikatea,instead of the transplanted Scottish name?

I have always had great respect to Mr Sarid.

that are not also the rights of the Jews in in the same territory. who gave the pals the right to their so called claim to land that they as individuals never ever owned. That is not to say that the Jews had rights to lands that they didn't own as individuals or as corporations. The right to land is a matter of conquest. Nobody gives their land away for nothing. it is either sold or taken away by force or by subterfuge. If the pals want land they will have to buy it or fight for it and win. Israel doesn't need to return any of their conquests unless given a significant quid pro quo. that has niothing to do with democracy, racism, separatism or any other ism. If the 'western world' insists on imposing their one -way standard upon Israel, the west must be ignored, even if it means Israel becomes a Dictatorship, a Facsist state, a Koingdom, an Oligarchy, or a Communist state or a any state other than an Islamic state ruled over by Muslims.

If Israel isn't willing to have the West Bank inhabitants as citizens then it should divest itself of the territory. Then there is the problem of inheriting a possible insurgency but that clearly does not justify either massacre or expulsion. If it did then the internment of Japanese during WWII would have been just and right. It was not. Sri Lanka is dealing with just such a problem now. Peace. Stephen

I believe you said in another post you are a lawyer. You must know, then, that rules of general applicability in law, such as prohibition against acquiring territory by conquest, are never absolute but subject to distinctions required by policy goals, etc. If the prohibition against acquiring territory by conquest were applicable equally to offensive and defensive wars, it would guarantee the potential aggressor nation that any land it lost in war would be returned. That is why legal scholars like Stephen Schwebel interpret customary international law as always having recognized different consequences depending on whether the state in possession of acquired territory was victim or aggressor.

Palestinians have never been able to declare a state because they have never had control of their sovereign borders. They have always been under occupation and under control of someone else. Israel should understand that. Israel could not declare sovereignty until it declared its borders and control of them. Israel has never legally annexed WestBank, Gaza or the Golan or East Jerusalem. It had that chance when it declared sovereignty. It never took it. 242 requires Israel to withdraw from Palestinian Territory. Israel cannot claim any Palestinian Territory as its own....it is Palestinian.

Many Jews, and others, rightfully expect Muslims to speak out against the savagery of the extremists among them. Why don't Jews do this more frequently? For every op-ed like this one, there are 100s who try to justify these policies with lies, and hundreds of racists posts from common folks. Jews have to decide if they want to be a western nation or another Sudan. These government sanctioned crimes against humanity have been going on for far too long.

While I am sick that the same DNA that runs in my body is likely similar to the DNA in the bodies of right-wing settlers I am glad that there are Israelis such as Yossi whose DNA is likely similar to mine. Yossi, I fully understand the depths of your pain. It cannot be easy to know that there are people in your country, people of your background, who have no problem oppressing another people, stealing their land and acting like the criminals that many are. You are right. They are not your brothers nor your sisters. You have compassion. You are a decent human being. You want peace between Palestinians and Israelis. They only want to be the overlords and the superior ones. They have lost their humanity. Yossi, I am your sister. I could never be a sister to a settler.

Stephen, I would rather have the land as a victor than have to fight to have it returned. If the shoe was on the other foot, Stephen, would you been just as forceful to have the land returned to Israel ?? Honestly, Stephen. If this land was so important for a Palestinian State, why were they not given their State before '67 by the Jordanians, who had possession ?? Then all of this would have been avoided, no so-called occupation, and peace and harmony would ring from the hills. This State was there for the taking, Stephen. If so, why are the Pals still stateless ?? Love to read your reply. Also, we all want peace, Stephen, not just you. However, it takes two to tango (in the Middle East, perhaps three or four). Peace. Gianni

I certainly respect them, and their immense contribution. It is they, I'm afraid, that have no decent view toward the Settlers. A huge part of the population is driven by the view of the Torah, as opposed to most residents in Left circles who view Jerusalem, for example, as JUST ANOTHER CITY. To them, they could care less if they were drinking a Latte in Israel, Paris, London, or LA. The goosebumps that I felt the first time I visited Hebron, the history, the meaning was unforgettable. To walk the same steps as Abraham and Sarah, to visit their place of burial, is beyond description. It is the Left who should respect our history of many millenia. This is one reason the Settlers want to live there. They are not demons, but heroes, sacrificing the luxuries of Tel Aviv for the experience of living where their ancestors dwelled. Imagine being in the locker room of the Yankees and gawking in wonder that, in this place, Ruth, Mantle, DiMaggio wowed the baseball world. Only 10000X more

Not to try to answer for Esther, but the general reason there are so many more Jews in Tel Aviv than in modern day Palestine is because the secular Jews who led the resettlement of ancient Israel tended to prefer to live near the coast and the truce lines of 1949 reflected that. You may not like their choices, but you should respect the historical achievement of secular, leftwing Jews who made the State of Israel possible.

Yossi Sarid - I love you, brother ! David

Gianni, That is the argument of the Russians to the Georgians regarding South Ossetia. The question remains then, if Israel were to lose a war and say the saba farms in the North would that claim by conquest be legitimate. I maintain that it would not because it is per se illegitimate to claim land by conquest in this day and age. The hundred years war and such are things of a distant and barbaric human past and hopefully shall remain so. Peace. Stephen

thank you. i try to remain human. i can only return the compliment. obviously, most of the israeli citizens who live in the west bank are decent people. in every society there are some who are not. what matters is the general culture and mores. shalom, stephen

it is not sentimentality, but a large human experience. shabbat shalom, cipora

israel will never, ever, abandon israeli citizens. nor will israel relinquish areas in the west bank without final status agreement with the palestinians.

Why, DAVKA, do you live in Tel Aviv. Why do you far'gin someone who wants to live in the land of Avraham Avinu ?? Surely, it is more important spiritually to live in Hevron than Tel Aviv. Why, DAVKA, Tel Aviv, Esther ????

Pierre, you are mistaken, 500,000 Settlers DO NOT live on stolen land. They reside on land that the Arabs LOST due to their belligerance and intransigence, even before Israel's birth. Had they not decided that attacking Israel was more important than building their State, Palestine would exist for over 40 years. BUT NO, this state is irrelevant. They'd rather destroy Israel. sorry, won't happen. The Settlers are our heroes, MY BROTHERS. And MANY in the US feel te same.

Yossi, You have more than a brother or sister. You are an essential piece of a family of thought that nothing must break. Feelings, compassion and simple sense of humanity and justice are universal.

... while you were still busy completing your education in MIT, Yossi Sarid had already devoted years of service to State of Israel, and not only as a politician... ... as for drive-by shooting, it is not exclusive to the Pals, and has been notoriously practiced by settlers, particularly in the Hebron Hills area...

I hear you, Yosi. And the other folks who commented with more or less a command of reason. I have family on both sides of the ideological line and while I follow the dove, it would only compound folly for me to cut them off. During the 1st Intifada I did my best to do lots of patrols. I was a softening influence, even if I was limited to speaking politely to Arab elders instead of barking orders. I got into more fights with fellow soldiers than with locals. But I could model love and mercy -- ahava ve'rachamim -- to both sides. To cut even the rabid fascist settlers off gives them one less reason to follow even simple rules of humanity, and increases our culpability in their subsequent actions. What's the American phrase? united we stand, divided we fall?

... as for the 'noble' pioneering instincts of the settlers, we have barren hills-and-dales galone in our Negev desert and in the Galilee, crying out for hityashvut... why davka the Palestinian's WB ancestral patrimony...?

This is so true. After living more than half my life in Israel, I realize that Orthodox establishment Judaism has unfortunately become the monopoly of right wing rabbinical bigots who are the mentors of the racist settler movements. It is a shame and a disgrace how they have estranged a large section of the Jewish People and have caused many of us to hang our heads in shame. Like Yossi Sarid, I do not see these right wing religious fanatics as my brothers. Idealogically, they are repulsive and self-rightious in their racism. They are a true danger to Israel's existance as a democratic state. They are destroying the two-state solution and replacing it with a diabolical, binational state solution which means domination of the Palestinians by continuing the occupation.

As is typical,a Leftist expresses a naive attitude and lack of understanding. The choice of the words "settler" and "settlement" are already loaded. Perhaps there have been a few young hot headed Jewish guys, but its certainly understandable after the decades of abuse by Palestinains. To these Leftists, don't Palestinians have ANY responsibility for ANYTHING? Do Jews have only obligations and Palestinans have only rights? If the Palestinans are intransigent and won't engage in meanginful dialogue,does the author now suggest that we have to be BOTH the Jews AND the Palestinians and negotiate with ourselves? And then what?

then I ask to join the Family, and if we can resist Fanaticism and Extremism from all directions, we can become one family and join the Human Race as it should be. There is no room for people who would steal and kill with impunity. I say this as a Jew, someone who loves Israel but who sees the Darkness obliterating the light. Today this column is filled with hope.

According to the last Elections...; you Mr. Sarid and the view People that share your Ideas are the ones who don't have much brothers. If i remember right; the political right, that is generally supporting the Settlement, received above 50% of the Votes, ..i am wrong ?

If the majority of jewish people had been thinking like you ,today State of Israel would not be established.We can think diffrent,we can have diffrent political views,diffrent religous opinions or diffrent cultural habitudes.Althogh all this diffrences we are all brother,we are one nation even we live in telaviv or argentina or france or hebron.Doesnt matter...Forget some of few radicals,just think people living in judea & samaria with hard conditions just to simply defend & follow jewish values while you are living in your comfortable house.I'm respecting them & they are all my brothers just like you....

FT, It seems a bit hypocritical for settlers to claim civilian status for the purposes of "terrorism" if everyone knows that they are really the "second army." Peace. Stephen

These gangs of West Bank usurpers have been committing acts for violence since they came to squat. The army does nothing. The only Israeli to confront these racist mobs has been Ezra Nawi whom Israel imprisoned so the squatters could have their way. The only response should be the utter expulsion of this entire vile population, but that is impossible since the military is part of them.

It is often said of Lawyers that we are not all bad but it is that 90% that give the rest of us a bad name. I think that is the exaggeration that we are imposing on the settlers. We imagine that 90% are of a particular ilk. I suspect that it is substantially less. Most lawyers are decent, idealistic and conscientious. I suspect that the same is true of settlers. It only takes a few with loud voices and outrageous actions to skew the perception. Though tempting we should resist the urge to over-react and pigeon hole settlers as if they were all Kahanists. Peace. Stephen

There are 500000 illegal Jewish settlers on stolen Palestinian land. The few maniacs who refuse to stop building just now are a symptom, not the cause. Don't lose focus. This crime has been tacitly supported by all PMs from Eshkol to Nethanyaou. The settlers have ruled Israel for 42 years. As #7 Australia correctly wrote: "They are israel".

Ms. Kohn, I often read your postings and have seen you to be a person of both great sympathy as well as empathy. I know you are conservative but even with regard to Arabs, I have never seen you write anything hateful or hostile. Tell this community about the settlers that do not destroy local olive groves. Tell us about the settlements that employ local Arabs; whose employers will get out of their beds in the middle of the night to rescue an acquaintance from some issue with the border guards or the IDF, help get there Arab friends to hospitals if they need transportation, etc. Generalization is the first step in bigotry. Peace. Stephen

I think that it is rarely justifiable to tar all of a category of people with the same brush. There are settlers that feel justified in extending their settlement because they do not believe that any non Jew has a right to settle there. There are also settlers who feel justified in extending their settlements because they are a vital element in the local economy for both Jews and Arabs. Many Palestinians have employment in a settlement. They are the source of much enterprise and commerce. The Golan settlers are by and large a fine example of this. Such broad generalizations are usually dangerous and always in error. Peace. Stephen

From the classic play "The Lion in Winter": Eleanor: Your sons are part of you. Henry: Like warts and goiters--and I'm having them removed. The best thing Israel could do with the settlers would be to hand both the settlements and the settlers over the the Palestinians, part and parcel. Let them become citizens of the new Palestinian State, instead of them being Israeli's. Then when they display their terrorist behavior, Israel can dismiss them as just another Palestinian terrorist sect for Abbas to handle. Begone!

Excellent. Your talkbacks are always a cut above the rest, Mark. Thank you!

exclude everyone else from being your brother. You don't make sense.

... even if it's sometimes untenable... Shabbat shalom, E.

... prevent civil war in Israel in the foreseeable future... and the settlers build on that...

... on the contrary... ... you obviously have no idea what or whom you are talking about...

Yossi Sarid is a fellow Jew, and thus he is my brother. I say this, despite the fact that I consider him to be an utter hypocrite. When secular hoodlums commit murder or rape, Sarid never writes how ashamed he is to be a secular Jew. All secular Jews are his brothers. When a leftist collaborates with active terrorists, Sarid has no problem with being a leftist. All Leftists are his brothers. But, oh, when a settler moves into a house that the Courts rule is the settler's property (as per "the rule of law"), Mr. Sarid spews hatred. Yossi Sarid thinks he is paragon of virtue, but in reality, he harbors an abhorrent and unjustified hatred of anyone who sees the beauty in Jews living freely in the parts of the Land of Israel where Sarid would like to see a new Arab Muslim state. As someone who sees and appreciates that aforementioned beauty, I know Sarid hates me. But I still consider him my brother, and I can only hope that one day he will see the error of his ways.

... if settlers were cognizant of "I and thou", there would not be unilateral appropriation of ancestral land belonging to neighbors, all the more so when there is no existential justification...

Well said. Yossi you are my brother. I hope Netanyahu reads your comment to learn something what your founding father said.

Unfortunately we live in a world where many think in terms of "us versus the enemy" like Harzion & Cipora. The 'Us versus Them' 'Good versus Evil' mentality which is indoctrinated into people's minds from an early age, when they are born in a certain environments. This applies to Jews, Muslims & Christians alike. In that mentality when the dear leader declares something then all the followers blindly tag along. If someone was to question actions by a leader or in this case the extremists, then all those followers immediately jump to the 'if you're not part of the team, then get out of the stadium' rant. & in the case of hardcore pro-Israelis, any criticism of Israel's (or settlers) actions immediately equals anti-semitism (or self-hating Jew if it was a Jew challeneging the situation). Very saddening but true. The purpose of religion in the 1st place should be self-betterment, ethics, values..etc. but all the religious extremists forget all that & end up being misguided.

One does not chose the family he/she is born into, yet life is about choices... Sometimes one has to chose not to be brothers anymore! I do have more ties with a secular democratic Palestinian than with a settler, and it drives me mad he/she occupies a country that is not his/hers and abuses its population in my name.

Yosi has solid and manly ideas that resonate with me and my brothers the Palestinians As a proud American Palestinian I am with Yosi

Sarid should know better than to lump the right-wing extremist fringe in with the central mainstream of the settlers. It's like saying all left-wingers are like Neve Gordon and Uri Avnery, and thus the left wing obviously support the self-destruction of Israel. Naive, narrow-minded op-ed today by Sarid. Disappointing.

Capable of leading the so called "majority" back to the path Israel of old maintained ?.It seems as if Israelis are lost and disorganized. There must be someone who could lead at this critical hour,or are we heading to a civil war ?

,rigtist-leftist,haredim and secular.Whether you like it or not :"Every Jew is responsible for one another".

They have made an idol out of land.

unfortunately, it is hard sometimes to get along with a brother. Sometimes, they may kick you out of your house, 10000 at a time. Sometimes, they may be so set on being viewed by the world as acceptable that they deny certain aspects of truth, like the right to fight a war of defense, of killing the enemy to protect yourself even if some civilians of the enemy may be killed. This whole article is written out of anger of someone who's values themselves are corrupted, and thus views all actions from the other side through ruby glasses.

Well said Yossi! You are my brother.

The Israeli far-left and far-right deserve each other. The Israeli-far left has learned that Jews will not give away the house for peace nor will they prostrate themselves for the enemy. The Israeli far-right has learned that they will not impose their will over the majority will through bullying. Like it or not these two groups belong to the same people and deserve each other.

There was another Zionist who was a concerned about the fate of Palestinian Arabs as Mr. Sarid, but Martin Mordechai Buber found a way to be "one" with everyone and everything with whom he came into contact. Yes, Virginia, he even supported the idea of a bi-national state where . . . That being the case, I suggest that Mr. Sarid go to his local library, or bookshop and ask for "I and Thou". That might correct his current state of confusion.

The dream has been turned into a nightmare. And unfortunately, youuseem to miss tht it was the state of Ben Gurion and Herzl from which this noxious weed has sprung. As far as they are concerned, you are not one of them. Their religious nationalism has become the all dominant tenet of their Jewish identity and they have nothing to replace it. It is a disease and the disease is terminal. Arrogance and hubris have triumphed and we know where those qualities led the Greeks. Irony of ironies!

Unfortunately we live in a world where many think in terms of "us versus the enemy" like Harzion & Cipora. The 'Us versus Them' 'Good versus Evil' mentality which is indoctrinated into people's minds from an early age, when they are born in a certain environments. This applies to Jews, Muslims & Christians alike. In that mentality when the dear leader declares something then all the followers blindly tag along. If someone was to question actions by a leader or in this case the extremists, then all those followers immediately jump to the 'if you're not part of the team, then get out of the stadium' rant. & in the case of hardcore pro-Israelis, any criticism of Israel's (or settlers) actions immediately equals anti-semitism (or self-hating Jew if it was a Jew challeneging the situation). Very saddening but true. The purpose of religion in the 1st place should be self-betterment, ethics, values..etc. but all the religious extremists forget all that & end up being misguided.

Settlers are the rotten development of the zionist doctrine: they are a real danger for the survival of israel and its relations with the neighbours and the rest of the world. Reduce their absurd request and consider them for what they are: a bunch of looneys detached from reality and full of hatred for the world.

Let's not forget that is was the Arabs relentless attacks on Israel that left Israel with few options. All Israelis could see after 1967 was Muslims preparing for the next round with the eventual hope of destroying the Jewish homeland. I believe history has shown this to be true. What about Arafat?s Salami Plan for Israel? I salute my brothers who have placed their own lives on the line for the rest of us. They are heroes. I will not sell them short. When the Arabs truly want to dump their Salami Plans and truly want to let Jews live in peace, then we can address other issues. Don?t' be so naive Sarid. Others listen to you and you lead them astray.

Unfortunately we live in a world where many think in terms of "us versus the enemy" like Harzion & Cipora. The 'Us versus Them' 'Good versus Evil' mentality which is indoctrinated into people's minds from an early age, when they are born in a certain environments. This applies to Jews, Muslims & Christians alike. In that mentality when the dear leader declares something then all the followers blindly tag along. If someone was to question actions by a leader or in this case the extremists, then all those followers immediately jump to the 'if you're not part of the team, then get out of the stadium' rant. & in the case of hardcore pro-Israelis, any criticism of Israel's (or settlers) actions immediately equals anti-semitism (or self-hating Jew if it was a Jew challeneging the situation). Very saddening but true. The purpose of religion in the 1st place should be self-betterment, ethics, values..etc. but all the religious extremists forget all that & end up being misguided.

Yossi, I agree whole-heartedly with you. I did not make aliyah to humiliate and rob another people, but to practice the values I am proud of. I have nothing in common with settlers or fanatics of any stripe. Racism, ethnic slurs and exploitation are anathema to me. The money spent by our benighted government on the settlements would be so much better spent improving education for all, reinforcing the social safety net for our poorest, comforting our elderly and making all our lives better.

'The settlers are and have been Israels second army, well known fact' says FT. Does a state need two armies??? Is the IDF not up to the job??? The idea of a second private one sounds just like the Lebanon. Instead of Hezbollah, meet Settlerbollah. You are talking insurrection there FT, dangerous talk. Democratic states don't put up with private political armies, they stamp hard on them.

I would be ashamed to have a brother like you!

close or distant neighbor " . Could Sarid's torment be diminished if Sarid move to reside in hamastan under his 'close neighbor' hamas rule .?

they come from all parts of the country, from all sections of society, from all ethnic backgrounds, from all political pursuasions, from among the charedim and religious zionists and from among the post-zionists and the new marxists, from among the faithful who would die for the country, and from among those who would sell out the country. i do not love them all, nor do i love them equally, but i know that in each and everyone i recognose a tiny bit that is me. others hate us enough and wish us ill. i can only wish the best for our entire family. i wish them, us, all peace and a sweet heart. we shall be a goy hakadosh. it will take time, but we shall be.

indeed we finance them in arab villages.

It is the settlers who are the extremists, not us.

....only has a negative touch when it comes to Israel...??? Well, some may shout "anti-Semitism", but honestly, I don't think so.... ....I'm afraid it is rather their not so exemplary conduct, which brought them (and with that also Israel) their lousy image in the world.

Political zionism may be based on oppression, expulsion, disposession and so forth and so on. But don't forget that it is the same for all kinds of nationalism. After WW2, 14 million Germans have been expelled from Eastern Europe and Germany lost 40% of it's territory. It doesn't mean that the Polls, the Soviets, the French and other nations were worst than Germany. Don't forget also that in the very few regions of Palestine kept by the Arabs in 49, the Jews who lived there have been driven out (the old city of Jerusalem for example). Except maybe for Jesus Christ, everyone was born in sin.

I agree with you 100%. Is there anything we can do to carry out your ideas and bring peace to all of us? Lets work for a peaceful solution for everybody. Our time is running out, we are leaving our children the same problems we have always had, until when...??? I am ready to contribute in any way to promote this aim (time and work).

without the west bank in our hands,mr sarid should deal with that aspect and stop writing articles advertising his righteousness. yossi you are entitled to say the following: "i am unable to fight the enemy with all that entails.so i will leave the land and live elsewhere." those of us who wish to stay and live here have do not have the luxury of behaving like saints.

workers on the towns and villages cant feed their families due to the no brainer stop work orders !

if at all. the actions of the settlers are more the reflection of their basic nature than of religion; even among those who ARE, and use it to justify their acts. i agree with you that religion, or rather its fanaticism, is the crux of much of the world's strife, oppression, and violence, both past and present. but i don't believe that you can the settlers and theirs activities on judaism, as you've implied. the settlements and the settlers can be attributed to zionism, and the acts of vandalism and violence to the human nature of those who perpetuate them.

What a beautiful article... this is something that needs to be said. I'm absolutely certain, there are many who feel this way. It's just that they're too ashamed or too disillusioned to put into words. Yeah... Yossi Sarid may not have a brother. But my fear is... that I am losing my motherland.

this is not the same country i immigrated to in 1976. our values and respect for our neighbors have disappeared, our respect for one and other has gone out the window. you too, yossi, are my brother. the settlers are not and with their behavior, never could be.

it's the one who's soldiers are godless thugs, hoods, racists and goons; shunned by israelis and despised by the world. but actually ft, give us all a break. the settlers are leeches feeding off of israel's blood, while their presence in the west bank, and their destructive and violent acts towards palestinians, present israel with perhaps the greatest threat to future security and prosperity that it faces. they represent the biggest mistake israel has ever conceived, and until it ends the settlement enterprise, they will forever remain a curse upon it. "well known fact".

and your humanity... not one who believes that being jewish allows them to abandon theirs. yossi, the brotherhood you'll find in your jewish morals, from both jew and gentile alike, will be far more true than the kindred you disown for their lack of the same.

and therefore says: "you are not longer my son." however, relatives remain relatives whether you like them or not. saying "you are not longer my brother" (or son or whatever) only shows that the one who says so, is not capable of handling disappointments. one cannot solve a problem by such statements. such statements are just an egoistic try to whitewash oneself. but whitewashing oneself does not solve the problem, it rather creates more problems (e. g. a division of the israeli society which might even lead to a civil war). instead of uttering publicly such ridiculous statements which help nobody (apart from mr. sarid's ego), mr. sarid should look after practicable solutions for the "settler problem". because, whether he likes it or not, the settlers remain his brothers and sisters.

You sound like a member of those families who sit shiva when one of their number "marries out". The bible is full of quarrels between brothers, with myriad lessons that can be drawn from such stories. You know that much better than I do. The settler is your brother, the brother you failed to see it was necessary to talk to and possibly discipline rather than dismiss as marginal, when it might still have helped.

Well Yossi, much to our dismay and discredit, the are our brothers and sisters, you know,... even in the best families. They are immune to reason and have no sense of history. They will bring us to Masada and will push us over the brink before they commit suicide once again.

They are mainly Americans indoctrinated in the Yeshivas of New York that they are the chosen people and they have a right to land that is not theirs in international law. The funny thing is by embracing them Israel is sowing the seeds of it's own destruction, and they will quitely get back on the planes and return to whence they came. Yossi you have no brother, the settlers are no friend of Israel and never have been. They are a parasite on the society of Israel both morally and financially. The very fact that they find it morally acceptable to stone children, well the Taliban do that in Afghanistan don't they?

They hold decent human beings like Mr. Sarid prisoners of the folly of Israeli politicians who empowered the settlers over the past several decades through appeasement and vote mongering. A few months ago Mr. Peres went to the Europeans and pleaded for the settlers case against freezing and removal, and bemoaned that this will be tantamount to a civil war within the Israeli society. He never had a second thought when he and his fellow politicicians repeatedly sucked up to the settlers and the far right in pursuit of those cheap votes - at the expense of the Palestinians and the decent Israelis with conscience and humanity. Last month Mr. Peres stood up in Brazil and attacked Richard Goldstone the person as being a petty and inconsequential man. Thank you Mr. Sarid. There is till hope.

... turning all our values upside-down... ... theft becomes a right... ... spitting-in-eye becomes the norm...

It's a religion, nothing more and nothing less. Like millions of others over the years you can simply say "I don't believe" and set yourself free. There is something childish and delusional about claiming you are jewish because your parents are don't you think? My own parents were raised as Methodists or Lutherans, I gave both the flick as a kid and have not considered that blasphemy but good sense. The settlers are criminals, full stop.

Like Cain was the brother of Abel, and Ismael the brother of Isaac. The same blood flows through your veins, but your ways have never been so much apart. With all your rage and spite and righteousness, what can ever bring you together again? Brotherly love. Israel, you must hold your tribes together.

Yossi Sarid is totally right. They are not his brothers. He said it himself and I agree with him totally. These fine Jewish pioneers who came to settle the Land Of Israel , who have risked their lives for the Jewish Nation and for Israel, who live in constant danger and who are the best soldiers in the Army and cling to the principles of their Jewish ancestry sacred , they are not brothers to Yossi Sarid. They are from the highly esteemed Jewish nation sons of our forefathers . Yossi Sarid is from the Erev Rav- the cursed people that Moses unfortunately took out of Egypt to live amongst the Jews and who caused all the problems within the Jewish Nation , in the many generations since then up til today. Menahem Begin refused to talk to Yossi Sarid. A person is not allowed to engage into a discussion with such a person. He is an eloquent but cynical remnat of the ereuv rav. Yossi blurted out the truth. He is not my brother.

Religious zionizm may not have any thing to do with operession but political zionizm is based on operession,ocupassion and displacement of palestinians.

Those without ideology will pass from this world. Yossi Sarid's is no ideologist. He offers very little for the long term survival of the Jewish people. The secular experience in Israel, over the past 30 years since abandoning its ideology, is failing. Many on the Left feel devoid of Jewish identify. What Sarid does not understand yet is that the goy will remind him violently that he is Jewish, whether he likes it or not. So I would advise Sarid to build rather than destroy. Find ways to talk to your brothers, especially as Israel has not yet finished the 1948 War of Independence. When this war has been won and Israel is secure both physically and spiritually, then those like Sarid would have earned the right to decide who he would like as his brother.

God has entrusted us with a searching for truth. Along the way we are equally committed to helping those least able to help themselves. Social justice has been our mantra. An ignoble wall has been constructed in Israel, but it is not the wall isolating Palestinians. The much more devastating wall to Judaism is the one the settlers have erected to separate themselves from our heritage of truth, justice and peace. Peace can be on the horizon. It can be a lasting peace if we approach it with justice. Sacrifice is also part of our heritage, and sacrifice in support of peace is noble. Our children and our children's children deserve our sacrifice for a Middle East where they can live in peace. Herzl and Ben-Gurion had a vision and sacrificed for us. Let us follow those examples.

that is a well-known opinion, not a well known fact. And a ludicrous opinion, given the hardcore settlers' well known propensity for fighting with Israel's "first" army.

The Settlers are not your brothers Yossi Sarid. Perhaps I do not understand but I seem to think the whole movement was the result of Meir Kahan and America. Am I wrong, or are the most rabid and violent of the 'settlers' not American in origin? Have not extremists from America taken charge of Israel's policy and it's future? Americans far out of the mainstream of American Jewry have taken control of Israel's foreign and domestic policy, - it's future. How did this happen? America's lunatic fringe was the weight that determined Israel's 'tipping point.' They were the minority which shifted Israel from the traditional left which founded it to the extreme right which repudiated everything the left sought to accomplish. As a nation of immigrants - something which Israel and America share - Israel has become a nation dominated by a few immigrants - which never happened to America. Israel cannot easily divorce those American Fanatics. Escaping their domination will hurt.

The current 'battle' with the settlers - on the so-called "settlement freeze" - is one for the very future of our State. A VERY small minority of our citizens (the actual number of adults among the settlers - as opposed to under-age children - is a small minority of the total) is challenging an elected government's ability to rule. If the settlers 'win' this battle, they will have overturned the rule of law in Israel, and its ability to assert law and order. Anarchy and fundamentalism will have triumphed. If that happens, then God help us all, settlers included.

I share your views

you have some very serious reality perception not to mention identity issues, although i'm technically your Jewish brother I will make sure I keep away from you... (no i'm not a "settler")

Well known fact.

what jews do does matter. And what happens to jews also matters. that is your strongest card.

Yossi. It is ironic and tragic that you spew venom against an entire population of Jewish residents of Judea and Samaria for the alleged mistakes of a very small minority. I guess this what you mean by "preach but not practice love of one's fellow Jew." Your frustrated rantings (running over the victim again and again with your verbal bulldozer) are racist and frightening. Yossi, why not try for once to acknowledge humanity in Jews with whom you disagree just as you do with nonjews.

Yossi Sarid id an authentic zionist. His values are those of the founder fathers of zionism. Unfortunately, Netanyahu and his pals are turning the zionist dream into another people's nightmare. Zionism has nothing to do with the oppression of another people but rather with the right of the Jewish people to be free. We are no longer free, we are slaves of this horrible greed of always trying to possess more land.

Jews cutting olive trees disgusts Yossi Sarid, but he can't seem to find any sympathy for the innocent Jews murdered in drive-by shooting. These brave Jewish pioneers have returned to rebuild our nation creating gardens on barren hilltops that have not seen human habitation in 2,000 years. The fact that they live under constant attack by their Arab neighbors does not disturb our enemies who consider them "legitimate targets" for murder. This would include most of the talk-backers on the Haaretz website. But for a former Israeli politician to join in the chorus to deligitimize the settlement movement, because of a small number of acts of violence committed by some settlers in the face of horrific attacks that they have suffered is callous and disgraceful. Disown your family--we will be fine without you. Reminds me of the fellow who murders his parents and asks the judge for clemency because he is an orphan.

If you do nothing then you are guilty. Just turning your face away and denying your involvement is tantamount to condoning this behavior. It is not apart from you that this behavior was born... it was through you and with your blessings. No amount of removing your attachment can really separate you from yourselves. These people are an integral part of israel and its social customs and beliefs. They are israel. And this attempt to look away is simply a way of encouraging them without having to accept responsibility. However you will have to accept responsibility, and you will be held accountable.

They are not my "brothers" either.

Bravo Yossi. We Jews need to divest ourselves of the controlling tribal mentality which no longer serves us. While Diaspora Jewry was persecuted, oppressed, and murdered we were nevertheless a righteous nation. Our cultural life florished, our spiriutal existence reached its height of wisdom and our true world contributions were delivered. As sovereign actors in a nation-state, we have degenerated to a level which would make our ancestors ashamed. Blaming it on the Arabs is ridiculous. The truth is, we Jews are just the same as the nations....only more so. We need to manifest our greatness now and find ways to be wise...not right, strong, and lost.

I agree 100% with the sentiments, going beyond: as their Rabbis are declaring those resist them as "Hitlers" (Rabin, Obama) or "Hammans," we have to declare them "Sonei Israel" Israel haters) and "Sonei Enoshut" (Humanity haters). And treat them appropriately by law.

i agree with every thing was said and to add on it my god is not the settler god

They possess ethics, morals, justice, and compassion. Israel's image is very poor but it will survive because of an inate decency. The hate-filled racists will join others of their kind in hell. Salaam/Shalom

you may be in denial, but what is happening is going on before our eyes, and no one lifts a finger to help the palestinians. all your apologetic tones wont do a thing to alleviate the horror the palestinians go through daily. CNN/FOX and the rest of the talk shows, not news, need to show what is actually happening, but we all know why thats not the case. another baby cries and no one hears.