Human rights for security

http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/testimony_en.asp?full=413 Read ex soilders real experiences and confessions and one ask oneself about what innocent words of "protecting security" means in practice... /B

Israel has every right to protect itself by any and all means available. They have suffered for so long so they deserve to be strong now. No nation should ever try to stand in their way. It would be a mistake. It doesn't matter if others have to suffer because the bible says it's ok. We must believe that. We are the chosen ones. So we must not face it or think about it. Whatever it takes to keep us going.

Sorry Jeff it is not commentary when you force civilians from their homes and lands under the barrel of a machine gun

A state must protect its members from being murdered, blown apart maimed and that is the basic right due its people! All else is commentary!! Let the parents watch their children from jumping the fence.

So Daniel you say that since the Jews have a long time connection with Israel, I am sure that you wouldn't mind if as many Mexican people came to the United States, especially to the states of Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and California. After all, the Mexican people had a long connection to those lands that were stolen by the U.S. in the 1845 Mexican War, a war of aggression by the U.S. In fact, if everyone went back from where they came it would be quite a different world and many European Jews might just find out that their ancestors did not come from the Palestine of 2000 years ago.

Good thing we will not depend on you racists, with a superiority complex like no others for our Human Rights. That is why the world must isolate, divest and boycott the rogue state, just like in racist South Afrika!

To anyone with half a brain it should be obvious that the wall is not only meant for security. It is a massive land grab of Palestinian lands. If Israel was interested only in security, the wall would have been constructed on the Green Line. As now constructed, the Apartheid Wall snakes through Palestinian lands separating farmers from their lands, families from each other. To build this vile wall tens of thousands of Palestinian olive and fruit trees have been uprooted impacting heavily on the livellihood of Palestinians. From Day One of the occupation, Israel planned to colonize the West Bank and Gaza, control the water and grab as much land as they could with as few Palestinians as possible in the land. During the years of the Oslo negotiations when former housing minister Sharon announced the building of many new settlements saying, "we are creating facts on the ground," I knew that it was all over and that there would be no chance for peace for either Israel or Palestine.

THE PROBLERM REMAINS THAT COMMENTS ARE MADE THAT LEAVE OUT ALL HISTORICAL FACTS . YOURS ARE OF THAT VARIETY. I SUGGEST YOU STOP TALKING TOTAL TRIPE AND START YOUR HISTORY LESSONS IN 1920! ARAB TERRORISM STEMS FROM THAT YEAR AND HAS CONTINUED UNABATED EVER SINCE . THE ONLY SOLUTION IS TO MOVE ALL ARABS INTO JORDAN SYRIA AND EGYPT . PALESTINIANS IS A MEDIA AND ARAFAT INVENTION!!

Israels first and only duty is to protect its people-THE JEWISH PEOPLE. Their only policy goal should be pushing the Palestinians away from the settlements and out of the West Bank (they arabs have 45% of it already!). Naturally the IDF and Israeli people dont have a care about the deaths of Palestinian Children and civilians.

...by the fence to the risk to Israeli children without it! This argument is absurd! Why don't you try preaching to the Palestinians to become more moderate and peaceful so there is no need for the fence in the first place? Ever think that if they stopped the murder, something concrete may get solved? Ever consider they may not want a real 'peace', just want your whole country?

Security for Israel is number one for sure. Next comes human rights. But then thats the same for virtually the whole world. The defence of democracy is the most important thing,that allows security (its acceptable to be undemocratic in saving the democracy) and of course naturally Human rights would follow when democracy is assured.

While your platitudes sound nice they are over looking a few....... minor facts. 1: hamas does not recognise Isreals right to exist. 2: yassar arafat in 2004 (or was it 2003) attended the Cairo confrence and there he demamded more money and weapons from the arab states so that he could drive the Isreali's into te sea. Which kinda throws the whole "PA accepts Isreals right to exist" into doubt. 3: The Isrealis have left Gaza (bad move) and contrary to expected belief terror attacks launched from Gaza actually increased. So much for "land for peace". So then if the pals in action and intent do not want Isreal to exist why should Isreal be any different???

the most important right and liberty of any human being on earth is LIFE. In order to preserve life in israel, we need to assure a good security system, one that can protect our fellow citizens against any threat. Therefore, security its the most important issue in Israel. By not placing "security" as the most important priority, we are simply braking all human ethics and we are violating the human rights of the citizens of the state of israel.

Actually you are completely wrong. The other side may have had a total larger number of troops, but Israel had internal lines of communication and had more troops where the actual fighting was. It doesn't matter how many troops you have - it's how many actually get involved where the fighting is.

uggh. What a confusing excuse for logic is this A Eldar's article. Presumably she is not a science teacher. israelis' security is more important than Israelis' rights. Similarly palestinians' security is more important than Palestinian rights. (theres no benefit to rights if one is dead). However, Israelis' security weighed against Palestinian rights? Apples and oranges to you A. Eldar. (How many apples does it take to be comparable in taste with an orange? etc)

i have been redding this place for monts now and i dont agree with palestinans.they cause the problems and conplan to all that it is fault of jew.they must stop violenc and learn to live with the jew for peace

Before the 67 war- before 1948 - before Israel existed - ARABS WERE MURDERING JEWS 9 Remember Chevron). Jews have the right to live in peace free from the fear of arab terrorism. If the U.S. can station TRROPS on the Mexican border-and build a wall - WHY CANT ISRAEL WHO FACES A GREATER THREAT DO THE SAME

Actually I'm from Britain, itself one of the main violators of "human rights" in history. And I'm sick of the politically correct world that we live in today, bring back the days of Queen Victoria when criminals were actually punished and executed for their crimes (murder, rape) rather than given a nice cosy cell with a TV and a computer. Today's world makes me sick!! And what's the sickest thing in it?....the International Community telling Israel that it can't have its land because the Muslims claim that its theirs - which it is NOT!!

You are just one who has bought into the Arab lie that the Jews have stolen so-called "Palestinian" land. They have not, all the land of Israel including Judea and Samaria rightfully belongs to the Jews, it even says so in the Bible. Christian and Muslim occupiers cannot call the land theirs just because they stole it from the Jews.

Yes but Benjamin Franklin was obviously a cretin with a serious mental problem. Life is the most important things, at least the "Palestinians" are alive, regardless of their economic situation.

The "combined Arab armies" in '48 were out-numbered by Israel's. Not only that, Transjordan was not about to invade Israel for a minute--they only entered the international zone and partitioned Palestine. Syria conquered Mishmar Hayarden, a border settlement, still had it at the end of the war, and gave it back to Israel after the armistice. It became part of the DMZ. Egypt had the whole Negev throughout the war and didn't attempt to cleanse or commit genocide against the Jewish population there. Many settlements were not even attacked by the Egyptians. Many would bring up East Jerusalem at this point, but it's the only time in the war when Jewish civilians were systematically expelled. Hundreds of East Jerusalems all throughout Palestine were committed by Israel. IMO, if the Arabs "won" the 1948 war, at most, Israel would have lost the Negev and part of Galilee. And there wouldn't be a Palestinian refugee problem. What would happen later is another discussion.

Jails of burkha,veil,black islamic dress prescribed for your females. As soon as an Iranian woman leaves your country on a plane,voila,the black shmates are discarded in the plane's loo and she proudly goes back to her seat displaying some French chic dress.

"It was a disgrace that the world came together to criticise the anti-terror barrier." Give_Me_A break. 1. The barrier leaves 200,000 Palestinians on Israel's side. 2. There's a barrier around Gaza and Israel was never internationally criticized for that. There was no ICJ ruling and it's been up since 1994. Why? Because the fence doesn't seal any of Gaza into Israel. You can conquer land or you can have security. But not both.

I can't for the lfe of me understand how a nation of such bright people can not see were this situation is heading. For over 50 years now policy has generally remained the same toward Palestinians all this has gained for Israel is greif? Even if all Palestinians were to be forced out and all the lands fell into Israel's hands there would be such a high price to pay for this and no longer would they be facing poorly equiped resistance fighters now it would be hostile nations on her doorstep. The only future for Israel is to engage in dialog under a banner of respect and flexiblity the nations surrounding her, I know this will not happen, however, it does not change the fact that this is Israel's only hope.

Akiva Elder, you seem so worried about these small school girls & boys, trying to make their way to school. Sorry, but I'm much more worried about what they learn at school. I'm deeply disturbed by the massive hate and all the lies you find in the schoolbooks of the Filistine people.

`Human Rights group` is just another name for an anarchist group, a bunch of trouble causers. Oh I find anarchism not too terrible. Some of my pupils are quite anarchist. Sometimes it sounds like trouble making, but it might be only a kind of manifestation of oneself: "I want to be me, but I am punished for what I am. This cannot be my fault, it must be the ruling culture's fault." And from my point of view they are not far from reality. Look, my mother doesn't dare to speak the dialect she learned from her parents even when I ask her to speak it, because it has always been condemned. Her mother was left-handed and she was forced to hold fork and knife like everybody else. That the ruling culture punishes you for what you are, just for what YOU ARE, this is what I also condemn. You are from north america, aren't you? There you are probably not much punished for being Jewish. In Germany some so-called "trouble makers" had this song: "Sog nit kejnmol as du gejst dem letstn wejg...

Forcing people to live in camps, depriving them of their most basic human rights, and killing them is immoral and criminal. PERIOD! It doesn't matter if the oppressed are jews, Palestinians, Africans,.. It doesn't matter if the justifications is for "preserving the superior race", upholding "democracy!!!' or fighing "terrorism". If everybody is consistant in their value and respect for human rights we will never see another holocaust of ANY kind. Let's work for that!

Due to certain Israeli's continuosly acting as if no international law applies to them disscussing human rights issues is a mute point. I have almost completed my study into what Israel does with her abundant nuclear waste the ramifications of this report might be quite significant and relevant to the notion that this state feels Goyim are beneath the Jew hence their laws are not to be taken seriously.

Yaaqub Suleyman Do you know when will be the right of return for Pals to Israel? When the Arabs weeps us from the map. Right is POWER. Aby

Israel is still under emergency laws. Everyone wishes this was not so, but as Olmert said in his address to Congress, Israel has had not one day without terror since 1948. Like it or not, we are in this for the long haul. Now, over 50% of the Arabs in the territories have stated that they want out, so if the writer is sickened by the security situation than he should help these Arabs find so other country with jobs and better conditions. Israel is here to Syay.

China Singapore Cuba And counter that with Sudan Somolia Security is a human right. As for peace in the region, try these conflicts on for size. Darfur Algeria Morocco Yemen Saudi Arabia Afghanistan Kashmir Lebanon Turkey and the Kurds Egypt and the Copts Egypt and its southern neighbors over water. No X-tian Solider, there is plenty of violence going on in the Middle East and beyond, that has nothing to do with Israel, whatsoever.

Israel was outnumbered in all the wars waged against it and won is that ok then we rightfully won the land in defensive wars against people with more military power so everything is ok then.

The balance of the scale, between what's right for some vs. what's right for others. During the 1980's and early 1990's, the annual homicide toll was between 1,500 and 2,000 people killed. That's per year, for over 15 years. At its peak, close to 2,500 New Yorker's lost their lives in a year. Add to that, the Crown Heights riots under Mayor Dinkins, and the lesser violence in the wake of the Rodney King verdict. New Yorker's demanded a change. Out went Dinkins, and in came Rudy. Following a number of changes, the murder rate began to drop. While there are several competing theories as to why, the results are stark, the homicide rate has fallen below 600, and continues to drop, to levels not seen since the 1960's and earlier. However, there remains a cost, borne mainly by New York's ethnic minorities, with several noted cases, such as Amadu Diallo, and Abner Louima. The $64,000 question is, was it worth it?

The second intifada was planned many years before. In the 80's the Palestinians already said there would be three intifada's one with stones, one with guns and the last with missiles. This has all happened. Arafat began planning the second intifada at the Oslo Accord and even admited after with many other Pal leaders that it was nothing to do with Sharon on the temple mount. You should look at it the way it is. Sharon went on the temple mount and at the time was portrayed as the hero of Israel who will fight terrorism so he gets elected when the intifada starts. He lies about his intentions, and does exactly what his rivals platform was. Frees hundreds of terrorists, gives away gaza, and opens the border with egypt for them to prepare the last intifada.

Do you see the stats on how many attacks are prevented weekly because of the army and its actions. before this intifada there were no checkpoints all over the place and much of the land had been given to the Palestinians to control themselves. Israel has one of the most powerful armies in the world and could wipe out all the palestinians within a few days if it wanted to. So Israel is logistically capable of wiping out the palestinian people.

"And to deny a return of Palestinians, " There is no way that Israel can or will absorb millions of hostile Arabs -- those same Arabs who believe that murdered Israeli children is the highest of virtues -- into their society. The sooner the Palestinians alter their demands for finanical compensation, the sooner they will see their state. What is the point of dragging this on for another 60 years? What is the point of allowing their Palestinian brothers in the Arab Islamic world to rot for another few decades? Encourage the Palestinians to accept peace, give these children of Arab wars $$, then accept a state called "Palestine", and make a productive use of it, something other besides manufacturing suicide belts.

Tim: Sadly, I shamefully admit I served in both Military Intelligence and other Israeli Intelligence. I knew Yehuda Gil who was a blustering idiot. How anybody could have believed him still startles me. He taught at the Intelligence Academies. The man could lie like a rug. Sadly most of our intelligence still comes from Yehuda Gil types for he recruited the type of people like himself. Therefore all the intelligence Israel has on Iran, Iraq, Libya, & Syria is all false and made up. Sold by ficticious Arab informants to Israeli intelligence operatives for millions of shekels and dollars which they pocketed. Israel called him a liar but Victor Ostrovsky named all the crooks in the IDF intelligence agency by their real names in his book-By Way of Deception.

"Unfortunately Hamas does not recognize any international agreements with Israel, nor any agreements the PLO has made on the Palestinian peoples behalf. Therefore why should Israel negotiate with an intransigent government??? Did you absorb any of this Dutch????" Has Israel ever respected any agreements? Look no further than the settlement expansion! You make me sick! You think your soo smart, Gaza settlements had 8000 jews living on 1/3 the land drinking 85%of the water!85%! 1.2 MILLION arabs in the rest of Gaza, why would any palestinian or activist agree to this? Fine israel dismantled the settlement and got world outcry, cnn covered it for weeks, did cnn ever speak about the west bank settlement expansion that happened instantly after the gaza pullout? LOOK no further than the settlements actually being illegal, if israel was law abiding nation, would they not have dismantled all settlements? Your arguments are outrageous and one sided, lacky any consideration.

The surrounding araba countries are judenrein and Khalid wants Israel to be judenrein too. Nu Khalid, had the combined arab armies succeeded when they attacked in '48, would the middle-east have been judenrein? what would have happened to occupied Israel?

...your definition of a terrorist. "In the Oslo accords the Palestine Liberation Organization (a terrorist group).." Amazing how the double standards seem to never end. What do you call begin shamir and sharon?

"Chana and those apologists like her say to hell with international law when it does not abide what we are doing. Who are these anti-Semite to tell us how to run our country. We are on our own and we will run our country as we oursleves will it to be." Yet when international laws say one thing and the international community has special clauses for the Jews, people like you claim that is the law. It isn't, but that has not stopped morons from preverting those same laws and claim that they say things that they do not. There is no international law that says we have to accept the PA's demands including the entry of anybody. You can spout your nonsense to the ignorant, but that doesn't make it factual. It's for us to decide just like America, England, and every other country in world. There is no Israel only exception. And yes us we do say to hell with the rest of the world we won't do it.

"case Egypt would have put that on the table in negotations with Israel. Why did King Hussein of Jordan make peace with Israel and not ask for the return of the West Bank under his kingdoms control, as it was prior to 1967??" I guess you want an answere since you put 2 question marks, considering an educated person should know one would do the trick. Jordanian Kings are all Israeli puppets. Bottom line they do what Israel wants them to do .

"Calling our people "enemy population" If you celebrate the deaths of Israel's children when your martry trash blows up malls and restaurants, then that qualifies as "enemy". If your society worships the murderers and allows them to roam free and hide among women and children, instead of imprisoning them, then your society is an enemy society and must be separated from Israeli civilians.

Nice little summary of the conflict, do you not think it is alittle biased though? "The Jewish homeland was meant to rescue Jews from Europe," So you believe millions can be expelled from their homes and thousands can be slaughtered because a guy in Germany discriminated against jews? Dont kid yourself, that is exactly what happened, no way around it, thousands slaughtered and millions expelled. Do you ever ask yourself what did the palestinians living their have anything to do with jewish problems in Europe?

The overiding priority of any state is to protect her citizens. As I understand it before targetted assasinations evidence is gathered and presented as it would be in a court of law, the decision is then made. We will never know how many were refused because of the nature of the process. I do have a problem with that, but I refer you to my first sentence. However, the killing of bystanders cannot be condoned as collateral damage. The whys and wherefores do not always justify the actions taken. When a terrorist becomes a terrorist he loses the automatic rights and privileges given by a state in peacetime. A civilian on the other hand whether in occupied territories or not does not lose their Human Rights. That does not mean that those arrested, charged, tried and convicted lose the right to be treated humanely.

Has the downside to the acid you took finally been effecting you? "The world has shown many times that Israeli lives are not worth more than Palestinian inconvenience." A comment like that makes me wonder if you have a brain at all.

Chana and those apologists like her say to hell with international law when it does not abide what we are doing. Who are these anti-Semite to tell us how to run our country. We are on our own and we will run our country as we oursleves will it to be. If you are referring to the law of return of the displaced and expelled palestinians, your argument is pointless only becuase Israel has never recognised that their is a problem nor that they are in any way responsible for creating it. A full return of every refugee is a starting point not a final position. And to deny a return of Palestinians, whom the early Israeli government drove out, while claiming a full return of every single Jew in the world to the ancestral homeland is the height of zionist arrogance. Palestinians feel the same way about allowing millions of enemies to flood into their coutry and take it from under them. Your argument fits their claims, you just are blind to it.

The revisionism goes on and on, soon they'll be calling for a nazi memorial day for all the nazis that the jews killed. Do you know when the first nakba commemoration was held.....? was there one in 1949? 1959?1969? was there a 25th anniversary nakba celebration in 1973? It won't be long till they say Israel belongs to the palestinians because they are the REAL jews.

The Palestinians are not "enemy population." They are the owners and proprietors of the land and country which you arrogated from them at gunpoint. YOu should be ashamed for living in homes that belong to the Palestinians, built on land that belong to them. Your theft of their land shall never ever be legal, let alone legitimate. You will always be thieves and robbers, though on a very large scale. Calling our people "enemy population" is like calling Jews during WWII.."enemy population" and we know what fate awaits enemy population. It is lamentable that your argument is an identical carbon copy of arguments made more than sixty five years ago in the European mainland...when jews were the underdogs...

Interesting proposal again, perhaps we are ready to redraw the entire map of the world then and go back to.....which date do you want? Go start giving land back and Israel when her time comes, she doesn't need to be the leader of this pack. What would have happened to occupied Israel had the combined arab armies won when they attacked in '48?

"Israel was artificially created in 1948" Only someone who is totally ignorant or extremely anti-semitic would utter such a stupidity. Israel's history goes way back before 1948. As Chana pointed out and you so conviently ignored, the Jewish people have a connection to Israel going back thousands of years. Every inch of the land of Israel is saturated with thousands of years of Jewish history. The only thing that happened in 1948 was that the world begrudgingly and only half way formally accepted that the Jewish people could take back what had been stolen from them thousands of years ago.

Shamus, Thanks a bunch for all the information you shared with me. I will answer some of the points you made later and get back to you. I just didn't want you to think I had forgotten you --I certainly haven't But I am doing some spring planting and I want to catch the sunlight hours (1500 hrs here) Be in touch later in the day. Cheerio for now, Dutch

No country can be forced to allow millions of an enemies' population to flood in. It will never happen. Zionism has been a longterm rescue mission for the Jewish people. Israel will not be forced to allow millions of livid anti-Semites into the country as citizens.

Shimon, Although many people claim the war of 1967 was a defensive war some of those who were directly involved with it say that wasn't so. They say there was no threat of destruction. Now if that doesn't sound like another WMD ? Nevertheless, the commander of the Air Force at the time General Ezer Weitzman said there was "no threat of destruction" and Menachem Begin admitted in the 1980s: "In June 1967 , we again had a choice. The Egyptian Amy concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack them". The late Yitzhak Rabin's admission also seems to confirm this: "I do not think Nasser wanted a war. The two divisions he sent to The Sinai would not have been sufficient to launch a defensive war." But the great irony of the 1967 war is found in the position made by John Quigley, professor of law at Ohio State University in his book (A Challenge to Justice) who says it is unlawful to keep land gained by war even in a self defense case: "Under the UN Charter there can lawful be no territorial gains from war, even by a state acting in self-defense. The response of other states to Israel's occupation showsa virtually unanimous opinion that even if Israel's action was defensive, its retention of the West Bank and Gaza Strip was not. The (UN) General Assembly characterized Israel's occupation of the West Bank and Gaza as a denial of self determination and hence a 'serious and increasing threat to International peace and security"". Thus the Israelis have no right to any part of the West Bank as you seem to think. They must negotiate to get out of all territories and out of Palestinian life and work out a deal for the return of the refugees to "their home" in Israel as stated in UN Resolution 194. I hope you get this, Dutch

"and so says the International Court of Justice," The ICJ has no jurisdiction in Israel. It and its rulings are as worthless as the one - state proposals. The Palestinians have two choices -- continue to fight and remain stateless. Accept a peace treaty, repudiate terrorism, relinquish right of return, and be rewarded with a state and the opportunity to express enlightened societal Palestinian / Arab human rights to the international community. I personally cannot wait to witness what the Palestinians can educate the world in the realms of human rights, children's rights, and women's rights.

I like your posting Yossi, please let us on on a bit more inside. Tim

that Sharon`s visit to the Temple Mount in September 2000 was really the trip-hammer and the chief provocation for increased "terrorism." Sharon and his henchmen knew exactly what they were doing, and the firestorm of resentment and predictable retaliation such a visit would trigger. It gave him the same kind of excuse that FDR needed to enter the War against Germany after the attack on Pearl Harbor. We know now that the U.S. had been monitoring the movements of the Japanese fleet as it made its way from the Sea of Japan towards Hawaii. The US had broken all of the Japanese military and civilian secret codes. Roosevelt wanted the attack to occur. In the same way, Sharon wanted Palestinians to rise up, so that superior Israeli forces could deliberately attack and eliminate them, (albeit gradually). Sharon needed the "terrorist threat" pretext as justification for Israeli aggression.

No one is condemning or criticizing Israel if it wants to build a 1000 feet wall, however, the condemnation comes from building it on Palestinian occupied territory, and destroying their lives, their lands and dividing thier families, and so says the International Court of Justice, which is the main judicial organ of the United Nations. Israel has no right to build it there..that is the bottom line.

My advice to Dutch is to pay great attention to what you're saying..if she believes in Santa Claus.

What would you have israel do? At this point, its a matter of national security. If israel gives the palestinaisn free movement, the reuslt will only be an increase in terrorism which has been proven to be the case time and time again. Every time israel does anything to better the lives of the arabs, they use it simply to kill people. That doesnt seem like they care too much about civil rights, does it??

"They won by defending themselves and have every right to land won that way." So power comes only from the barrel of a gun? Should Israel ever be defeated (and before you laugh may I mention the Roman empire,Ghengis Kahn,Alexander the great The British Empire on which the sun never set,Germany in the 30's) should I ignore the plight of Israeli citizens and leave them to their fate saying it was all done fair and square. I wouldn,t and neither would many on here from outside Isreal who are disgusted by the way you currently behave because we believe in the basic dignity of human rights and civil liberties.

Anyone who cares to can look up terrorist attacks within Israel in the period from 1995 to Sharon's visit to the Temple Mount in September 2000, compare the rate in that interval to the rate since, and draw the obvious conclusion about the relationship between Israeli 'security measures' and terrorism. Assuming the goal is actually to stop terrorism, your 'security measures' are spectacularly counterproductive -- and that's putting it mildly. There was virtually no terrorism; you then started baiting the Palestinians and managed to elicit 'terrorism.' By labelling the proviocations 'security measures' you manage to convince yourselves you are somehow morally in the right -- but the truth is pretty obvious to any who care to look. You are not content, nor do you want, a harmonious relation with your immediate neighbors. You want victims you can oppress. You want to be able to grind your boot in their face -- and to be able to just grind it harder if they squirm.

Mr. Eldar, what of the rights of Israeli citizens? Sometimes strong preventive and/or defensive measures are needed to fight a brutal enemy. Their rights are (and should be) less important than the citizens of Israel. The primary concern is for us first, not the Palestinians.

Dutch, i see what is wrong with your opinion. You are basing everything on that the west bank is "an illegal" area for israel which you are basing on the false premiss that israel took it forcefully and kicked people out. I cannot blame you for learnign your history incorrectly, but dont worry, i can clear this all up for you. Israel was attacked both in 48 AND in 67 and in both of those times, the large majority of "refugees" left by their own free will to make it easier to kill the israelis. The bottom line is that Israel didnt forcefully take anything. They won by defending themselves and have every right to land won that way. you said "Remember, safety doesn`t come from the military or a wall but when two people agree to accept and respect one another`s rights.". i agree. But in the absense of any arabs actually aring about peace, the wall will have to do. How do i know they dont want peace? Because every time we offer anything, they use it to bomb us. does that seem peaceful???

All bastions of democratic institutions within Israel. THIS is fantastic and should be looked at too when the acadamics,the negative pundits and the world in general asseses Israel. Viva Demnocracy and Israel's Democracy in particular!

when one group denies human rights to another, it will have no security since the oppressed group will fight back to regain its rights. every single colonial power has discovered that denial of rights to others translates into terror, violence and lack of security. those who don't learn from history always get punished. it's amazing that the israelis believe that by denying the pals human rights they increase their security, when the exact opposite is true.another point, every colonial power in history has denied it is a colonial power, and every colonial power that failed to commit genocide, has failed. since israel is logistically incapable of wiping out the palestinian people, it's a matter of time before she loses her colonies, but like many other colonial powers, israel can't face reality.

The only people who have difficulty understanding thet security comes first is the terrorist and the terrorist sympathiser. The regular people who's lives are disrupted because of the terrorists, understand and don't have a problem with it. Why should I have my bag opened and snooped through all the time, why do I need to open the trunk of my car when shpping, why should I get pulled over and show my papers? I do it with a smile because I know the boys and girls are doing their job. You people are mad that they are doing their job, because it makes it more difficult for you to achieve your goals, and that is to kill jews.

Easy for you Mr Murray to decide 2000 miles away from the conflict what should come first human rights or security. Also your assumption that Israel slaughters the Palestinians at will is ludicrous. Senseless slaughter of people is what Hamas, Islamic Jihad do. While the deaths of both Jews and Palestinian is tragic, the circumstances are totally opposite. Until you have lived in Israel's shoes, or know the true history of the conflict I would suggest to keep your opinions to yourself.

Shimon, Of course, I care about innocent people on buses and those eating in restaurants but I also care about people who are being railroaded out of their land and rights by Israel. Now where is your concern for them too? Israel has become a push over state and it has robbed the Palestinian people right and left of their land. Instead of having 55% from the partition of Palestine today it has 78% and now it has already built over 200 settlements on the other 22% of Palestinian land. Indeed, Israel has become the biggest theft in modern history and it is not going to get away with it anymore. Now you don't seem to get what all this mean for those innocent people on the bus. Yes, I hear you that Israel gave up Gaza -- big deal! With 8,000 Jewish settlers occupying 1/3 of the land area and forcing 1.2 million Palestinian to live in the other 2/3 what a moral disgrace. But the only reason Israel moved out of Gaza was cost. And of course it never fails but to grab more suit- suitable quarters in the West Bank. Now if you expect the Palestinians to be satisfied with just this piece of land in Gaza jump into the sea now--don't wait until you are pushed! Hence the bottom is Israel must pull back to the 1967 Green Line and give the Palestinian people a half decent chance of having their own state. Otherwise, your innocent people on the bus will never be safe. That's the real bottom line. Dutch P. S. Remember, safety doesn't come from the military or a wall but when two people (or groups or nations) agree to accept and respect one another's rights.

There were 130 terrorist attacks by the PLO in the 30 months between their formation in 1964 and the June '67 war. The PLO charter, established in 1964 calls for armed struggle as the only way to establish their goals.

Israel has the right to exist but has not right to make the life hell for hundreds of thousands of people in order to satisfy a bunch of radical jews, the settlers and their zionist supporters. Nothing on earth is more important than human rights and it is universal, you can not kill the Palestinians to satisfy the Israelis, and vice versa for the Palestinians. Invading the Palestinian land is against human rights and I do not care all those zionist mambo jambo like the promised land etc etc, cut it short !!

Everybody remembers how former Mossadnik Yehuda Gil deliberately lied for over 20 years about the Syria threat in returns for millions of his intelligence agencys shekels. Every Israeli remembers all the lies the IDF generals have told about defeating Hizbullah in S. Lebanon and defeating Hamas in Gaza only to be driven out by the enemy. Our army and intelligence service wouldn't know a security problem if it walked up and belted them in the mouth. Their poor, worn, tired old excuse of national security is an excuse for their incompetence so they can keep their jobs and get Knesset seats.

I think that few would argue that the primary cause of conflict in the world today is the existence of the Jewish state. This is symptomatic of the use of borders throughout the world. Much controversy is made by the border issue here between the US and Mexico. I favor the abolition of all borders. When people ask me about the costs to the US of illegal immigration, I reply that the prosperity of the US rests firmly on illegal expropriation and abuse of Mexico, and the "illegal immigrants" are really a justice based mechanism of wealth redistribution. Similarly, Israel must tear down its wall and allow the right of return. Some say that this will end the Jewish state. If the elimination of Israel is what is needed to spur humanity to eliminate borders in general, than that is a small sacrifice. Similarly, if Jews get blown up in the proces, that is a small price to pay for economic justice worldwide

It gives Hamas the latitude to change their positions from day to day so they can add more conditions to their negotiations at a moments notice. The Arab League has endorsed a plan to have Israel return all lands captured in the 1967 war in return for peace. Should Israel return the West Bank to the Palestinians then there should be peace. Plain and simple. A statement to this effect would further along the opportunities for peace and changes. However it is clear that Hamas wants much much more, or they would rapidly execute on this statement or policy. By doing this they would insure that sanctions or the suspension of funding would cease. Unfortunately Hamas does not recognize any international agreements with Israel, nor any agreements the PLO has made on the Palestinian peoples behalf. Therefore why should Israel negotiate with an intransigent government??? Did you absorb any of this Dutch????

These realities notwithstanding, what can be the real solution to peace and security for both Palestinians and Israelis??? In the Oslo accords the Palestine Liberation Organization (a terrorist group) recognized Israels right to exist and to peace and security for both sides. Why is such a simple and clear statement difficult for the newly founded Hamas government to achieve such a statement. Naturally this would require them to renounce violence or the armed portion of their struggle. However it would certainly benefit them on the world stage to dismantle these rogue groups and operations against the State of Israel. Having complete and total control over these groups would insure that should Israel not negotiate in good faith or execute on their commitments, the armed struggle could be re-activated. Expecting Israel to return lands first and accept a "long term" ceasefire is clearly a negotiating ploy. It is a conditional response and one which gives them the latitude to change.

Their plight over the past 2,000 years is not a reason for occupation, nor a justification. Obviously, this tactic has not assured the Israeli people peace and security. It has strained resources, caused much death on both sides, and deviated much needed monies from other more worthwhile projects. However, as intelligent individuals we need to see the real scope of the Middle East. The creation of the State of Israel by the U.N. 181 resolution, and the unwillingness of the Arab world to abide by it has plunged the region into this situation. Why did the Arabs not recognize Israel prior to 1967?? Why did the Arabs attack Israel prior to 1967, and in 1973?? Surely they didn't want to engage in a war for the Palestinians. If that were the case Egypt would have put that on the table in negotations with Israel. Why did King Hussein of Jordan make peace with Israel and not ask for the return of the West Bank under his kingdoms control, as it was prior to 1967?? These realities notwithstandin

I read several web based news journals daily as a retired political science professor. There is no situation in the entire world that strikes me as more one sided than the Israeli - Palestinian crisis. I do indeed feel sad for the Palestinian people having to endure checkpoints, searches, raids and a sense of ongoing uncertainty. However I also recognize that the State of Israel has and wants to make peace with its Arab neighbours. Israel at great sacrifice, after several wars in which thousands of soldiers lost their lives returned the Sinai to Egypt in return for peace. This was indisputably a solid buffer zone against Egyptian attack, however Israel negotiated a peace in return for land. They had someone to deal with!!! You didn't see marauding gangs driving through the streets of Cairo holding the people at bay and terrorizing them!! Please look at both sides very clearly and recognize that throughout history the Jews have been persecuted, almost obliterated after World War II. P2

If security violates human rights, then there is no security. Israel knows this but is blinded by religious and zionist (secular, as its founders) ideology. Just like Iran, I really believe that Iran is willing to Martyr itself for the sake of the Uma by nuking Israel with 20 nukes while martyring itself in the prossess..then their will be human rights and peace in the region.

does anybody remember any suicide bombing before the colonists were allowed to set up their colonies ? terror meant infrequent attacks on border settlements which caused very few israeli casualties, miniscule compared to the infamous road carnage on israeli roads. the more colonies were built, the more humiliating the road blocks and the more massive the land appropriation and colonies expansion became, the more violent the palstinian terror became. the whole world, exluding israel, understood the connection.

#30 Adama : "Human Rights should NEVER come before security, its better for "Palestinians" to live without some amenities than for Israelis to be slaughtered by suicide terrorists" Security should NEVER be used as an excuse to deliberately deny Palestinian human rights. It is better for Israelis to live in Tel Aviv without land stolen from Palestinians than for Palestinians to be slaughtered (in far greater numbers) by the IDF.

What other nations did, do, or would do under the same circmstances? We are no different then the rest of the world. Lets behave accordingly! Maybe they we leave us alone, to our own troubles!

1. The establishment of a Palestinian State must removed from the international agenda. 2. However, removing the issue of a Palestinian state from the international agenda will not eliminate the humanitarian predicament of Palestinians residing in Israeli-administered areas. 3. This is clearly an issue that must be addressed and resolved. But it must be addressed not in political terms but in humanitarian ones. 4. Thus, to successfully resolve the Palestinian problem, the Political Paradigm must be replaced by a Humanitarian Paradigm. This, however can only be done if the current Palestinian narrative, which fuels the Political Paradigm, is de-legitimized. 5. Thus, the de-legitimization of the Palestinian narrative becomes a vital prerequisite to any comprehensive resolution of the Palestinian issue.

14. A survey conducted among the Palestinians in Nov. 2004 indicates that only about 15% of the Palestinian population resident in Israeli administered areas would reject such an offer outright. By contrast, over 70% would accept some form of material compensation as an inducement to emigrate permanently from the areas currently under Israeli administration (see http://www.jerusalemsummit.org/eng/news.php?news=102)

Umm Nidal: "Ever since [my son] Muhammad was a little boy, he carried and used a weapon. This was natural for him. It is not that he all of a sudden took up a weapon, carried out operations, and so on. This was a gradual process for him, ever since he was little. "There was an operation that was about to take place - the same operation that he eventually carried out. [My eldest son] Nidal, may he rest in peace, said to me: 'I want to give this operation to my brother Muhammad.' He insisted on this because he loved Muhammad very much. He chose him. He chose him for the operation over the rest of the guys. Some of the guys were even a little mad at him for not considering them for this operation, but he said: 'By Allah, this operation leads to Paradise, and I will choose nobody but my brother.'" "Allah be praised, we have thousands of young men. They all yearn for martyrdom for the sake of Allah. Some of them even cry when they do not get the chance to commit martyrdom.

Way before the occupation, Israelis were exposed to Palestinian terror. Violation of human rights is obsence, but to think that full respect of those rights would eliminate security probles is naive - the goal of teh Palestinians has always been the destruction of Israel.

than innocent lives of people on busses and shopping in malls. Dispicable.

Dutch, all i hear from you is baised and racist critisim of israel, but you never offer a solution. your solution CANNOT be to take down checkpoints and pull back, because reguardless of israels legitimacy in the west bank, it will cause nothing but terrorism against israel. YOU man not care about innocent lives, but most people do. To do what you want is nothing short of suicide for israel. How do i know this?? Because every time a roadblcok comes donw, arabs try to kil Jews. Israel left ALL of gaza, and all the arabs have done is fire rockets and try to sneak TNT into gaza!! So i ask you again if you have a solution that doesnt give terrorism the upper hand?

Adama, since you claimed that "Human Rights should NEVER come before security", you might be willing to chew on those words from Benjamin Franklin: "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Yours, M.

Shimon, What you don't seem to understand is that Israel's own extremism is also very self destructive. Israel cannot continue to banish the Palestinian people behind checkpoints and a wall and expect to be safe. It won't happen. Israel must do the right thing and get out of Palestinian territories and withdraw its forces to the 1967 Green Line -- then and only then will there be a chance for a real peace and security. So stop the denial and work with the Palestinian people--they are not going away. Dutch

Professor Yeshayahu Leibowitz, a scrupulously observant Jew, saw from the start what the occupation would do to Israel and the Jewish People. His warnings went unheeded. When he was nominated for the Israel Prize, loud crys went up against the appointment, hoping to keep him off the national stage of honour. The Supreme Court, Chesin or Barak, were as much a part of Leibowitz's warnings then the other branches of Israeli government. Today the chickens are coming home to roost, the thorns are springing up from a planting now almost 40 yrs old.

God Bless you Akiva Eldar for being a man of conscience and for caring about the Human Rights of the Arab people. I agree with you Justice Barak seems to have made many unfair rulings that have created terrible hardships for the Palestinian people. In our fair and just societies it is wrong to place the rights of one group of people over another. I know this was the principle used by the International Court of Justice used to determine the fence the illegality of the fence and thus that it should be dismantled. Thus it seem Justices Barak hasn't always necessarily followed this principle in his rulings and they have been lopsided. You mentioned how an entire Palestinian population are kept under siege daily for the actions of a few and that seems terribly wrong. Daily throughtout the world security officials are able to manage complex security concerns without interfer- ring with the rights of others and that's how it should be in Israel. In addition, I feel Palestinians should be no more subject to arrest and detention than Israelis but from the complaints I have heard I know this isn't so. That's unjust. Lastly, I feel Justice Barak shouldn't have allowed the militaryto carry out harmful offensives such Operation Rainbow and other against the Palestinian people as they involved a great loss of live and the uprooting of many innocent people. Thus I feel Justice Barak in his efforts to ensure the rights of the Israelis have short changed the Palestinian people and that seems unconscionable to me. He should review and rectify these inequalities in the law right away. Thank you , Dutch

You are right Chana, I couldn't believe the lies that Tony Price posted earlier. I'll back you up.

The settlements in Judea, Samaria and Gaza did NOT replace Arab residents. Photographs taken in the mid-1970s show Ariel Sharon in a wide area of land with blueprint diagrams and bulldozers. The land he was settling was indeed EMPTY! Much of Judea and Samaria is still empty to this day. The settlements in Gaza were literally built on sand. You're assuming that the Holy Land is wall to wall people on every square centimeter. You're wrong. The community in Hevron is a special situation because Jews had lived there for hundreds of years before a vicious attack in 1929 where 70 young Jews (students) were murdered. Britain forced the rest of the Jews to leave land that their families had owned for many generations. Arabs moved onto this land which was later recovered by Jews again. The rest of the settlements were built on vacant land. You may not have been to Judea and Samaria but I have. It isn't filled with people on every square centimeter. Others, pls back me up on this. Tnx!

AND ALLOWS THE STRANGERS TO LIVE AT PEACE WITH ISRAEL AND THE JEWISH PEOPLE UNDER THEIR SOVEREIGNTY -- THEN LIFE CAN RETURN TO NORMAL . AT PRESENT IN A STATE OF WAR " QUOTE HAMAS " NORMAL HUMAN RIGHTS ARE NOT POSSIBLE .

#9 IS IT TRUE that the British government granted visas to 300 rabbis and their families to the Colony of Mauritius, with passage for the evacuees through Turkey. The "Jewish Agency" leaders sabotaged this plan with the observation that the plan was disloyal to Palestine, and the 300 rabbis and their families should be gassed. #10 IS IT TRUE that during the course of the negotiations mentioned above, Chaim Weitzman, the first "Jewish statesman" stated: "The most valuable part of the Jewish nation is already in Palestine, and those Jews living outside Palestine are not too important". Weitzman's cohort, Greenbaum, amplified this statement with the observation "One cow in Palestine is worth more than all the Jews in Europe".

Human Rights should NEVER come before security, its better for "Palestinians" to live without some amenities than for Israelis to be slaughtered by suicide terrorists. But of course...you won't agree with that since you support the terrorists.

#5 S IT TRUE that in 1944, at the time of the Hungarian deportations, a similar offer was made, whereby all Hungarian Jewry could be saved. #6 IS IT TRUE that the same Zionist hierarchy again refused this offer (after the gas chambers had already taken a toll of millions). #7 IS IT TRUE that during the height of the killings in the war, 270 Members of the British Parliament proposed to evacuate 500,000 Jews from Europe, and resettle them in British colonies, as a part of diplomatic negotiations with Germany. #8 IS IT TRUE that this offer was rejected by the Zionist leaders with the observation "Only to Palestine!"

# S IT TRUE that the Zionist leaders in Switzerland and Turkey received this offer with the clear understanding that the exclusion of Palestine as a destination for the deportees was based on an agreement between the Gestapo and the Mufti. # IS IT TRUE that the answer of the Zionist leaders was negative, with the following comments: a) ONLY Palestine would be considered as a destination for the deportees. b) The European Jews must accede to suffering and death greater in measure than the other nations, in order that the victorious allies agree to a "Jewish State" at the end of the war. c) No ransom will be paid # IS IT TRUE that this response to the Gestapo's offer was made with the full knowledge that the alternative to this offer was the gas chamber.

...THEY RESORTED TO TERRORSIM!!! THEY HAVE NOBODY TO BLAME FOR THEIR SITUATION BUT THEMSELVES!!

What came first, terrorism or "the occupation"? Terrorism or "the wall"? Terrorism or roadblocks?? The answer to all of the above is terrorism. WAYYYY before any occupation and any excuse the arabs had to kill Jews, they were still killing Jews. Aarbs had free movement and tons of liberty until they resortred to terrorism. They have nobody to blame but themselves

"Zionism was meant to rescue Jews there, too." Ten questions to the Zionists by Rabbi Michael Dov Weissmandl ZT"L Dean of Nitra Yeshiva 1. IS IT TRUE that in 1941 and again in 1942, the German Gestapo offered all European Jews transit to Spain, if they would relinquish all their property in Germany and Occupied France; on condition that: a) none of the deportees travel from Spain to Palestine; and b) all the deportees be transported from Spain to the USA or British colonies, and there to remain; with entry visas to be arranged by the Jews living there; and c) $1000.00 ransom for each family to be furnished by the Agency, payable upon the arrival of the family at the Spanish border at the rate of 1000 families daily. 2. IS IT TRUE that the Zionist leaders in Switzerland and Turkey received this offer with the clear understanding http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/Rabbis&Organizations.htm

To take down the wall will do one thing, bring a flkow of terrorism into israel. Every time a roadblock comes down, terrorism comes full force. Imagine the terrorism involved in moving anentire security barrier?!?!

A little girl squeezing through a wall on the way to school, or a girl being able to ride a bus to school without the imminent threat of being blown up?!?!?

In any situation where the local inhabitants are displaced to expand the nation, then that nation is colonising, by definition. Israel was artificially created in 1948, but has since expanded its borders by colonising land formerly occupied by Arabs, to settle immigrants from other countries - exactly the process used by other colonial powers. Prior to 1948, neither Jewish not Arab areas were specifically defined, but they were defined in 1948, and Jewish expansion outside those borders as decided by international agreement is, as the article above outlines, in contravention of international law. Ergo, my points remain valid. I am now going to bed, as it is late over here. Don't ignore history, or International law, because you are trying to use your own version of the former to bolster your argument, and Jews are using International law to recover property taken by force by the Nazis. Good night.

Alex, Do you want freedom and end of Occupation. Its very easy. The moment they'll fulfill the following conditions peace will come. 1) lay down your arms 2) End the violance 3) No right of return. Aby

Israel isn't Europe. Israel is a very, very tiny nation in a region of the world where Jews are an indigenous people. The Jewish people have been an indigenous people of the Middle East for almost 4000 years. Israel is no colony. Israel is a homeland. If you think Israel has formed some sort of huge Empire on a tiny strip of land that is only 50 miles across (between the River and the Sea), then you must live on the smallest desert island on the planet. The "colonial" arguments don't work against Israel.

History is against you. Every colonial power, from the Romans 2000 years ago have "rightfully won" land from people less militarily powerful, but then starts many years of opposition, and the more ruthless the oppression, the more determined and ruthless the opposition. Think of all the African territories, Indo-China, and add in Chechnya, the Basques, Kurds, etc, and you'll get the picture. There are three ways of dealing with the original inhabitants. Kill most of them so that there can be no meaningful opposition; leave; or enter into a treaty with them to divide the land, or share it, in a mutually accepttable manner. Only when Israel starts to respect the rights of the Palestinians do you have any chance of peace. Until then, you have a horrendously expensive and crippling "war" ahead of you - as the Romans, British, French, Portuguese, and every other colonial power has discovered.

His murderer certainly felt justified. His murderer wants the Netherlands to fall. You guys must have wrecked human rights in your country, I guess, eh? If a murderer believes that you denied him human rights, then I guess he must be right (in your view.) Clean your own house before you start criticizing another country that's fighting terror. Unless you think Theo Van Gogh deserved to die.

"Under the mantle of "national security", which has caused a mess elsewhere as well, it allows Jewish terror, military or civilian, against the Palestinians` basic right to life." What a load of crap. The police have shown that at the slightest excuse or Arab claim of any violence to side with the Arabs and arrest Israelis. How about the electrician that was arrested and convicted of defending himself in Gaza last year after 50 people attacked him. He fired once in the air, but the Arabs claimed that he was mowing down the crowd and all of them identified a person that wasn't there, but still the 'fair Israeli courts' convicted him. So don't give us this garbage. The Arabs do not fear us for good reason. "The clincher is that the Arabs` right to life is not considered basic, but rather as a magnanimous gift of the Jews. Less equal, slightly less than human." Grow up, if we acted as countries like the United States and England then you might have some claim.

If human rights are denied for short term security then it simply defeats the purpose. Denial of Palestinian human rights delgitimises Israel as a democracy which is a far greater threat to Israeli security. Security for an Apartheid regime is not something that will be regarded as important for anyone but the oppressor. Denial of Palestinian human rights simply legitimises the Palestinian resistance.

An representative of an indigenious and opressed population of S.America,President H.Chaves obviously doesn't like people like Wolosky. If somebody like him came to power in Mexico,Sr.Wolosky might seek refuge,,where Sr.Wolosky,in Argentina? They've never managed to put to justice bombers of a Jewish Community Center in Buenos Aires,you're a pestilence to them too. So bend your hunched back even more ,maybe you'd succed in eel-wriggling yorself through your servile life .

Theodor Hertzl was a college student when the term "anti-Semitism" was invented to provide a "scientific" rationale for hating Jews. It meant that Jews couldn't convert out of Judaism to escape persecution anymore. The Jewish "sin" wasn't religion anymore. It was in our blood, supposedly. The Jewish homeland was meant to rescue Jews from Europe, primarily. Jews were also subjugated in the Arab world. Zionism was meant to rescue Jews there, too. The Jewish homeland progressed, but Britain stopped Jewish immigration to the Jewish Homeland shortly before WWII. Thus, Britain trapped millions of Jews in Europe where they were murdered. Later, Britain tried to keep the Holocaust survivors from being rescued by the Jewish Homeland, too. In the few years after 1948 - 900,000 Jews from the Arab nations fled their homes. Israel took in 600,000 of these Jews. Others went to America, etc. Israel has been fighting for Jewish independence for over 100 years in the Holy Land.

Mischael Cheshin's "if then measured" must teach us all about the Law. The Law is after all the fundamental building block of any democracy. When tampered with, we are all on shaky ground. The Basic Law of Israel, that is to make up for the lack of a Constitution, is after all the responsibility of the Supreme Court to uphold. How far haven't Israel travelled since the declaration:will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel; it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture; it will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions; and it will be faithful to the principles of the Charter of the United Nations.

If the "setttlements" are the main problem, then why did the Arabs attack Israel in wars PRIOR to the existence of these settlements (in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973?) The settlements started building up in the mid- to late-1970s. Why all the wars earlier? The answer is that the Arabs don't just want the land Israel won in the Six Day War. They've been killing Jews for over 100 years in the Holy Land because they didn't want a Jewish population living there (especially a FREE Jewish population.) This whole conflict has been the Jewish fight for independence. The Hamas Charter says that the Jews must be subjugated or killed. Do you really think they intend to stop going after Israel even if Israel gave them the land that Israel rightfully won in 1967? Jews in Israel don't intend to be subjugated under Muslim rule again.

It should be obvious that the occupation is the main reason why Israelis are "blown up." Want to put an end tu suicide bombings in Israel? End the occupation. That will do it. On Palestinain rights, if israelis and Jews dont dare to look at themselves in the mirror, then they are violating the most elementary moral truisms of judaism. Free Palestine!

Eldar, not a single security recommendation of your own? It would seem u believe that security for Israeli citizens can only be pursued by acceeding to Palestinian political demands. Do u believe UNRWA clients have a right to decide for themselves whether or not to settle and acquire automatic Israeli citizenship inside the 67 armistice lines? Do u believe the PA appointed Waqf trustees deserve sole jurisdiction over sites holy to Jews, Muslims and Christians in the Old City? Eldar, would u settle for something other than a 2-state solution? Eldar, do u remember the Gush Emunim? Do you think they were invented in the Knesset? Eldar, is it immoral to demand of Palestinian politicians that they also abide by International Law pertaining to human & civilian rights? Or are u not familiar with the Hague and Geneva conventions? Eldar, is it fair to argue that terrorists and criminals can't be apprehended and tried in an independent criminal justice system because it might trigger civil war?

The real most basic right in Israel is burial. In return for the bodies of Israelis who were already dead, the state willingly released convicted terrorists. Some of them, like violent suspects on house arrest, took advantage of their freedom to attack again. Jewish burial is more important than security, not to speak of normal family life, especially when it's "them".

It isn't a serious question, Israel's security comes first and foremost before anything else. 'Human Rights group' is just another name for an anarchist group, a bunch of trouble causers. Anti-semitic trouble causers at that.

In the usual "heads I win, tails you lose" equation, the Jews' basic right to life is pitted against Arab terror. Under the mantle of "national security", which has caused a mess elsewhere as well, it allows Jewish terror, military or civilian, against the Palestinians' basic right to life. The clincher is that the Arabs' right to life is not considered basic, but rather as a magnanimous gift of the Jews. Less equal, slightly less than human.

Well, I'd call this guy a self-hater except that I'm sure he loves himself. He hates Jews.

He wants to make sure there're no more Akivas anywhere.Let them be replaced by Alis and Abus. He doesn't believe it his garbage himself thpough.Had he believed,he'd have relinguished his position to some pal journalists. They write approximately the same as him and have an "universal human right to emplyment" as self-deafetingly written by good old Akiva.

Akiva Eldar's article does contain some importan emotional precepts. But just as Justice Cheshin might tour the separation fence and learn about the hardships it is afflicting, maybe Mr Eldar might tour all the hospitals that contain many little children, siblings severely wounded and disabled by many a murderous suicide bomber...There will always be two sides to every coin.

israels security is being totally ignored by IDIOT POLITICIANS who think HARSH WORDS AND APPEASEMENT WILL CARRY THE DAY! IT IS CLEAR THAT THE SUPREME COURT HAS FAILED TOTALLY IN MATTERS OF LAW AND SECURITY TOGETHER WITH TREATY RIGHTS TO THE LAND OF ISRAEL.

The world has shown many times that Israeli lives are not worth more than Palestinian inconvenience. It was a disgrace that the world came together to criticise the anti-terror barrier. It might not be perfect, but let the onus be on the perpetrators of terror and not their victims.

The most basic right is life. Followed closely by the right to dwell safe and secure in your home. All other rights, while importat, are secondary to this. Human Rights advocates almost invariably overlook this simple right when assessing difficult situations and thus fail their own test when they advocate against it in favor of lesser rights. Probably because they find this most basic of rights politically inconvenient.