Hamas still wants to liberate 'all of Palestine'

Israel can be a very constructive partner and member of a wider Middle East. A Middle East Economic Community that will bring prosperty to all. Arabs have lots to learn and benefit from Israelis and visa versa.

as long as the arab menatlity points to one country named palestine, this is a dead end. Israel should not sucumb to their demands because they dont have any legal basis to try to impose any demands.Also #21 is not ocupied palestine, that group of people are living in ocupied Israel

"So under which of these left PMs the Palestinian land was not dwindling daily by passing to the possession of the IDF buffer zones and then to that of the State of Israel?" The "dwindling" would have ended had the Palestinians accepted any number of peace deals -- particularly the deals which restricted the Israelis to building on existing footprints, but not beyond. How many offers of a nation have the Palestinians rejected? As soon as they accept one -- again, there will be no dwindling at all.

"israel has a significant peace camp. where is the palestinian peace camp? israel had a ben gurion, israel had a rabin, israel has a peres, israel has a barak." CJK So under which of these left PMs the Palestinian land was not dwindling daily by passing to the possession of the IDF buffer zones and then to that of the State of Israel? Right, there was one. Ben Gurion, who ended his term before the WB settlement activity had started. And if you think that Israeli peace camp is what separates Hamas from Israel government, then why won't you quit the Hamas-like Israeli camp and join the Israeli peacenicks right after your morning coffee tomorrow?

The UN, which sanctioned the establishment of the State of Israel, has made it abundantly clear that the settlements are illegal. They are illegal because they are on land that is OCCUPIED by Israel.

HAMAS, HEZBOLLAH, AYATOLLAHS, MULLAHS, IMAMS, AL-QAIDAS, ONE BILLION MUSLIMS, WANT TO LIBERATE ALL OF PALESTINE. Awake, Israel from your delusion and ignorance. Only if you rebuild your founding Jerusalem Temple (on its authentic site, downstream from the Haram), will you begin to be respected by the disciples of Muhammad, "Seal of the Prophets" (who prayed in direction of the Jewish Temple during the twelve first years of his Predication).

Aside from Fatah, the PLO/PA has welched on its many promises to delete the destruction-of-Israel clauses. The Covenant has still not been amended.

have you ever wondered?

How many times do we have to remind people that NO such people called palestinians: There was NEVER a country called Arab palestine,nor was the Land of Israel ever an Arab country. The Jewish people have lived continually in the Land of Israel.Therefore,the whole debate is redundant.What harzion took out of my mouth,will repeat it:You can take a horse to the trough but you cannot make him drink.Which applies to the Arab/Muslims.Be,it Abass,or any other Arab/Muslim so-called palestinian. In any case Abass is no different than ratifat was.Only the garb.One wore a kafiyeh(rattifat) Abass wears a suit. Also the terrorist entity haniyeh is like the hassan the hizb,loud mouthed THUGS.They both think will destroy Israel in one big swoop calling it "palestine"?Not even in his dreams...more like in his NIGHTMARES.

that, by 'Palestine', Hamas means 1923 Palestine (i.e. including this state of Israel). It is equally possible of course that they mean POST-1948 Palestine. Israelis never read between the lines and never let facts get in the way a priori ethnic prejudice. But think about the pressures on Hamas, rather than this tunnel vision about Israel all the time. The Arab league says it will recognise the Green Line border. Is Hamas going to stand alone against the Arab World? The EU says the Green Line is the border and they are Gaza's largest paymaster. Is Hamas going to decline the funds because of the political terms attached? Hamas has said it will respect the decision on negotiated borders, subject to approval by a Pal referendum. Are they thengoing to then tell 8 million Pals they lied? It is pretty obvious that Hamas will amend its charter WHEN a fair two-state deal is done. Of course that's the last thing the Zios want to hear, it knocks their rationale to bits!

Arik promulgates a peculiarly Israeli view of thelaw. Alas it is inaccurate. A: The Geneva convention prohibits countries to transport by force its own population to conquered land of other country. Yes, it is illegal to settle one's own population on Occupied Territory. A. Israel does not force settlers to settle anywhere The GOI has the master plan for settlements, provides financial inducements and services, approves ALL illegal building and facilitates the whole enterprise. It is thus totally breaking international law - it is an Occupied Territory, under military control, not part of sovereign Israel. A: ... and the West bank does not belong to any other country. It is a disputed land and never was part of a Palestinian state. Wrong. It has legally been Palestine since 1923. The UN decided to make it an Arab state. So what the heck are the Jews doing crawling all over it demanding land and concessions at rifle point? IT ISN'T ISRAELI TERRITORY - Gettit???

The Geneva convention prohibites countries to transport by force its own population to conquered land of other counry. Obviously that was minded to prevent the Nazi experience of enforcing population to be resettled in concentration camps in a conquered Poland. Israel does not force settlers to settle anywhere and the West bank land does not belong to any other country. The West Bank is a disputed land and never was part of a Palestinian state land. Settlements may be a wrong startegy to achieve peace, but by any accounts you can advocate their case in International law.

Only fools try to legitimate our settlements built in the midst of a foreign stateless population, on a land outside our sovereignty - by our June '67 victory. Only fools believe that Israel can teach the entire world, including our only ally, what international law says on this subject.

So Israelis and Israeli firster are now to define who we can or cannot talk to then?

"Why are settlements legitimate?" Because every single Jew was kicked out of Gaza, East Jerusalem (particularly the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem), and the West Bank by Egypt and Jordan when they captured the territories in 1948. They declared war on Israel 19 years later and lost control over the territories. Oops! Jews got to reclaim their properties. Simple answer. Don't believe it?

"All the usual suspects are marching to the tune: Don`t trust those Pals! Don`t trust them! They have a Secret Plan!" The varying charters of the Palestinian organizations are not a secret at all. You don't believe what they state? Schmuck.

"The only correct solution is what [...] was suggested by Zeev Jabotinsky: A Jewish Homeland on all of Mandatory Palestine and resettlement of Arabs back in their own countries." (Vladimir) Think - if you only know how to. Jabotinsky left this world in 1940. He knew nothing about a future International Criminal Tribunal in The Hague. Anyone trying today to apply Jabotinsky's solution would soon find himself dragged to the same chair of infamy on which former President Slobadan Milosevic was last seen, for all the antisemites to claim, "Here is the true face of Zionism!" You are dreaming. Wake up, it is almost 2010. By the way, what is Mahmoud Abbas's - born in Safed [Safat, in arabic] - "own country" ?

"Where is the palestinian peace camp?" (CJK) Silly question. Think: There was no Jewish peace camp when WE were a stateless population occupied by a foreign occupation army. When nobody in Westminster Hall was demanding that Palestine, "Our fathers' legacy", should be declared British possession. It helps to know a little bit of history of the ME conflict.

Hamas will liberate what deserve to be liberated, what belong to palestine, all palestine.

The question is whether or not you believe that Hamas will live peacefully side by side with Israel. Most people in Israel appear not to believe in Hamas. A lot of people who do not live near Hamas are inclined to trust Hamas. Hamas is internationally recognized as a terrorist organization. Some posters here believe that Hamas is ok, despite their charter, because "Palestinians" voted for them. I would like to remind every one that Hitler also was voted into office. Hitler also always wanted just a bit more land, land on which "suffering" Germans lived. Suffering because they weren't ruled by a greater German state. My opinion is that the Muslim extremists are the new NAZI's who want to conquer the world and impose their own "New Order." It is an order in which the opinions of all Haaretz posters would be death sentences.

"so whats the difference, other than israel has military means to do so?" Oh, THAT! LOL Any would Israel have lasted 60 years (or 60 seconds) if the reverse were true? Be honest, now.

There is the person you address... and then there is the wider audience... as evidenced by your response to me. And when CJ gives legitimacy to Haniyeh's claims over "Greater Palestine" his credibility as an "honest broker" is shot to pieces. I want to make sure no-one missed it.

This is just one of many delusions.....Israel is the landowner. Always has been. Palestinian's are lucky the Israeli's are even considering giving them their land. Why are the Palestinians willing to negotiate with a country that doesn't exist????Hello! Because they know the land is Israel's. Unfortunately/fortunately for the whole world,depending on your perspective God has the last word and will reclaim His land. Soon, and very soon! Hellelujiah!

If CJ has zero credibility. Why do you bother replying to his posts?

so whats the difference, other than israel has military means to do so?

It is already too late for a Two States solution. If you don?t believe it, wait and you will see. There is no way that Israel will let the Palestinians establish a viable country after 61 years. So the only solution is one country for all, where everyone is treated equal under the law. Good models to follow; South Africa, United States of America, etc. No discrimination based on religion. All Jews, Christians, and even Muslims can finally live in peace and make Isrestine the Mecca of the world. All can compete with each other fairly, given they all have the same rights and freedom. You can?t deny that the Palestinian are very well educated and have so much potential if just Israel give them a chance and start treating them like human beings. Palestinians just like Israeli people have hopes, aspirations, and will not give up until they get their freedom.

It has always been thus. Even though the "Palestinians" are the descendants of migrants in recent historic times (i.e. Cesarea was re-founded by Bosnian Moslems in 1882) as Moslems, they arrogantly claim ALL previous Moslem conquests as their patrimony, and assert that as Moslems, they thus have superior rights to ALL of "Palestine (and yes, they include Jordan) as an Islamic Wakf or trust. In Arafat's '74 Phased Plan, any land conceded by Israel was to be accepted as a base to take the rest. However,his most revealing statement was the Palestinian "need to divide the Jewish people into two camps, pyschologically", this indicates the true roots of the "Peace camp." Its a ruse.

No, I am not surprised at all, after all, all of Palestine is THEIRS. Of course it is "ours" too, but it is thiers at least as much.

There are no POWs in Israeli prisons- they are all terrorists arrested for harming or trying to harm Israeli citizens.

WHere is this written is any official Israel government charter? When has any Israeli government ever proclaimed the wish to "liberate all of Palestine"?

"the occupation brutalises us," so what else is new esther.parents of soldiers would not keep quiet were they were presented with a more peaceful alternative. you esther are willfully trying to prove your liberal credentials.you are one of millions.your narrative is not based on extraordinary righteousness.

The only correct solution is what long time ago was suggested by Ze'ev Zabotinsky: Jewish Homelan on all of Mandatory Palestine and resettlement of Arabs back in their own countries. Israel must implement it for the sake of peace in the ME. Hamas and other moslem fanatics have to be destroyed, it is inevitable.

The secular Zionists with their 'Biltmore Program', the religious Zionists with God on their side aimed to transform the whole of Palestine into a "Jewish commonwealth" (Ben Gurion). They did/are doing exactly that what they accuse their victims of dreaming about. To my ears the Palestinian vow to reclaim their homeland from which they were dispossessed by invaders sounds pretty legitimate, more so than the Zionist pseudo claim of 'redeeming the ancient homeland'. Shavit's accusation reflects a subliminal unease about the legitimacy of the Zionist project and about the ethnic cleansing that accompanied the creation of the "Jewish" state. This is only exacerbated by Israel's continued obstinacy and its refusal to seek peace with justice for the Palestinian people.

the land was never theirs. it was jewish..ask the romans...ask the vatican. ask the bible. look at archeology, carbon dating, scrolls, etc...that's PROOF...you offer fluff..I'll take proof over fluff thank you very much. palestinians don't exist. people like you and r scummings are so transparent...you dont even want to look at history, past or present, because you would have no rationale argument..your only argument is one of hate for the jews..if you really were hoping for peace, you would be able to evenhandedly look at both sides...each side has it's rights and each side has its faults..having said that, the so called pals have never ever chosen the path to statehood that even approaches civility much less responsiblity...your whitewashing of these facts is plain to see...ergo, you have zero legitimacy on this forum to really offer solutions. shame on haaretz for giving you a voice..a true disgrace.

... which said quite clearly: "The truth is harsh. The occupation is destroying Israel. It is undermining Israel`s ethical, democratic and diplomatic foundations..."

...It is advisable for the Palestinians to want the same. After all, it is their land to begin with.

Johnboy, if you're referring to my post about the phased plan, then you clearly didn't look at the link I posted. There's nothing secret about it. In fact, you can read the document on the United Nations site. Do check out the link. I'll post it again. youtube.com/watch?v=WSyQgyaxbFk

I wonder... would that include all of Jordan as well?

what exactly are you trying to say johnboy.please quit the drama.

... fail to pay any attention at all to Shavit's equally important addendum: "The truth is harsh. The occupation is destroying Israel. It is undermining Israel's ethical, democratic and diplomatic foundations..."

it is absolutely true that hamas wants all of palestine ari , and that is nothing new . but its not true that fatah and abu-mazen also want to liberate all of the hystoric greater palestine!!!!!!!!! if that would be the case than i dont think it would be so difficult for both fatah and hamas to unite and make peace with themselves. it is because they both have different political-lines why there will never be any kind of unity between them. we in the west-bank have realy enough of all this crazy game!!!!!!! make a real peace with abu-mazen in the west-bank israel. you know that it is possible if you are serious enough. let us once and for all live a normal life here in our homes in the west-bank. plz be serious once and for all israel

All the usual suspects are marching to the tune: Don't trust those Pals! Don't trust them! They have a Secret Plan! Hard to miss that all the zionist commentators are marching up 'n' down the street to that particular beat. But why now? Why should the bandleader call for this particular ditty NOW? Can I suggest that they have heard some disquieting news i.e. someone is about to trust the Pals. Nooooooo! Don't trust those Pals! Don't trust them! They have a Secret Plan! A Secret Plannnnnnnnnnnnnnn! Dare I suggest that they aren't the only ones, and rumours of that has now got the Hasbarah Hacks running around like headless chickens?

What is it that you see wrong with Hamas wanting All of Palestine?!!!!! If Israel keep at the Palestinians as it is doing, it is just a matter of time till they are capable of overcoming the power imbalance. Time is not on Israel side, no it is not.

later." that is wishful thinking.more likely it is total rubbish.

The issue of Palestinian refugees cannot be discussed without the issue of Jewish refugees. The Jewish refugees were driven out of Muslim countries, stripped of their possessions. They have never been compensated nor is any Muslim country willing to discuss this. Why on the other hand should then Israel be willing to discuss the Palestinian Refugees? And additionally, why is that Palestinian refugees are the only refugees in the world who remain refugees even in the 3rd or 4th generation? Any other refugee in the world will be considered legitimate citizen of the host country after 2nd or 3rd generation latest. Why not Palestinians? Or do you think, that the Americans with Irish ancestry are still Irish refugees with a right to return to Ireland and/or get compensation from the Irish/ British government? I guess not. So why for the Palestinians?

the hamas and fatah charters are true. no one will tell the palestinians they cannot return.there is no strong leader among the palestinians to tell them them the truth.there is no return.

All comments show the state of the world: Jew-hating. Christians, Muslims hate Jews. There's nothing to negotiate with them, their goal will never be peace, neither with Israel nor with the individual Jews. But even if there are Palestians, not hating Jews - which I'm quite confident - there still is a fundamental dilemma for them. Their economy is depending on war against Israel. Palestinians get hundreds of Millions $ per year from Europe, US and various Muslim states. Why? This money is paid to have the Palestians continue their war against Israel. If in the future a peace agreement with Israel would be signed, the Palestinians would loose all these benefits. Economically they cannot afford to make peace. On the other hand, they cannot afford to win the war, because then the surrounding Arab states would invade and seige Palestine. Would-be supporters for Palestinians should consider this. But those supporters only hate Israel and the Jews, but do not love Palestinians.

peace! Everybody promptly reaches for their Hamas and Fatah charters to repeat the same old weary stuff - but never for the Likud one, which is just as frightful with its expansionist claim to all of Palestine. The Pal extremists and Likud extremists are just two sides of the same unpleasant coin. Does Hamas still hold to its charter really? The Speaker says not, it is now a pipe-dream. Does Fatah? - it keeps offering to settle for the Green Liner border, same as the Arab League. Even Hamas has repeatedly said it will accept that border IF it is approved in a Palestinian referendum. Charters get out of date and they get changed sooner or later. The obvious REAL hurdles for both Pal parties are (a) they can't swop too much of Palestine's land, nor should they (b) they have to solve the refugee problem, otherwise no agreement will get through a PLO vote. Olmert's map needs to be reined in, Pal refugees need to be properly compensated, Likud manifesto needs torn up. End of problem.

Everyone knows this article is true. The only people who will argue against it are anti-semites, or neo-nazis, or other people whose sole mission in life is to demonize Israel and blame Israel for everything, in every discussion, on every topic.

"Haniyeh did not say so outright, but his words are clear"--- I hope someone's words are clear, because that sentence is definitely not. It may be the first pretzel-shaped sentence in history. M.C. Escher would be proud.

No 1) Palestine was robbed by the jews. Craps no 2) It is impossible to make peace with zionists. Craps No 3) Zionist were agressors. Nonsense Palestinians had no more rights that Jews in this land. Palestinians did not accept partition and Arab countries declared war against Israel. Israel had a morallegitimate right to defend itself by punching the Arab armies even before they enter Israel soverign territory. That was the right thing to do, totally legal, and totally moral. The same criteria was adopted in the 6 days war. Israel's war of defense ended with Israel territorial expansion. Israel has returned most of the territory ocupied in the 6 days war. In other words, it fulfills to the word the SC 242 decision. The 242 is the frame for Pals-Israel peace talks. Territories ( not all territories, but echancge of territories ) will be exchanged for full recognition and full peace. No hudna no "pudna", and no refugees in Israel. Israel position is right and is moral.

Well that's all a bit rich coming from an Australian, isn't it? Have you seen the mortality rates of indigenous Australians compared to non-indigenous ones? Truly shocking.

the average israeli has more time and patience for our muslim cousins then your people. remember your racist election campaigns.also your attempt to limit the freedom of worship for the 400000 muslims in switzerland.

they have lived with us for deades.they seee beyond the hatred and animosity you feel for us.

the waters but cannot force him or her to drink. mr shavit has been as clear as possible but esther is not thirsty.

we are not represented nearly as well by any other journalist at the newspaper.

What Ari you do not read my post? Do you not listen to what Hamas says and nearly what all Arabs world wide for sixty years have said. No to Israel. Not now not ever All of Israel is Palestine You might have seen the obvious but do not make it like some startling discovery has been made by your intrepid reporting. Are you now going to retract all the wrong things you have written all of these years???

Not only Hamas but all of the PLO are out to destroy Israel, including its stupid left-wing voters and their fave journo loonies. Why did you believe the lies of your enemies? Do you have too much lead in your brain?

I got to say 2 things: (1) Regardless of what Hamas says, the logic says if Israelis consider historical Palestine as the land of Israel, then Palestinians should consider all historical Palestine as Palestine. (2) I personally don't believe in a Palestinian state as small as the vagina of an ant. So, one state solution with equal rights for all is the solution. After that, call it whatever you want, Israel, Palestine, Isra-tine, I don't care.

if you ask someone who knows ITS ALL ISRAEL !!

and of course the release of all POWs held by The Zionist State.

The world is full of fools! Go and read these Muslims "holy book" transmitted by the great prophet???? Its full of hate and disgust for Jews and Christians because they refused to bend to his own prophecy that is full of errors and changes as soon as things did not suit him. And G-d forbid you dare question anything in Islam, then you have your head chopped off, or you get stoned to death. The "great Prophet" never stepped foot in the land of Israel (he traveled there in spirit, i mean please)!. Prior to 1948 Mecca was and is there Holly city, they never ever tried to establish any government in palestine prior to 1948, there was no economy, anthem, government or any thing for that matter. but then when the Jews come and get their land back and make it a total success, all of a sudden its their holy land that they cannot live without!! Perspective people! The great prophet changed rules and laws to suit his needs, now his people do the same thing. How come they pray towards Mecca?

The difference between Hamas and Fatah is that Hamas believes only war will get them all of Israel and the West Bank while Fatah believes either war or diplomacy can put an end to a Jewish Israel.Hamas wants Fatah to stop wasting time doing it the diplomatic way.Fatah mistakes the Western belief and sympathy that it is only fair that Palestinians have a state too with the belief that they can get the West to sanction and boycott Israel to death.Those Jews who are not happy settling biblical Israel can always dream.However,They should know the difference between dreams and reality and not be willing to make stupid concessions for dreams.The Palestinians will tell us clearly if they ever truly want peace.

might as well wish for the moon, loon. He has about as much chance as a snowball in hell. The pals have failed to make any peace a reality, they can't stop fighting among themselves. They don't recognize one another who represents the pals? Like a two headed snake. There will NOT be two states the pals have painted themselves into a corner.

Who started all those wars? Wars whose aim was to "push Jews into the sea" and claim all of Israel for themselves. They declared war, they lost and now they moaning like little children that its not fair they lost and lost land at the same time. Had they won and took all the land Im sure there would be no complaint from your side!!!!! Cause if its against the Jews than its ok Hey!!!

but we all know that. As long as there are two entities claiming to be palestinian, neither can represent the pals. Marvelous.

but we all know that. As long as there are two entities claiming to be palestinian, neither can represent the pals. Marvelous.

the arabs have never accepted the very existence of israel. the muslim thirst for the destruction of israel is the only cause for the continuation of the conflict. israel had accepted the partition, and did not start wars of annhilation. israel has a significant peace camp. where is the palestinian peace camp? israel had a ben gurion, israel had a rabin, israel has a peres, israel has a barak. the palestinians had arafat, have haniyah, meshal, and the liar abbas.

....so what's the difference, Ari...??? P.S. Right-wing Israel = The current Israeli governement

Israel is not suffering so much with the so called occupation, and its diplomacy is passing through some difficulties, nontheless nothing very serious. The world and Obama has more important things to deal with and one of them is the new Vietnam in Afghanistan. Europe is "trapped" with its "national identity" problems and the aussies such as CJ are the only ones problematized with Israel. Indeed they sit in their saloon,the aborigen slave brings them cofee and they could philosophy about Israel sovereignty. Nothing to worry too much about. The real problem is that the palestinians will get nothing out of this. They cannot materialize their presumed rights precisely because of what Shavit said. They cannot accept any rational solution, and believe the UN will give them back their non existent "rights"

'The truth is harsh. The occupation is destroying Israel. It is undermining Israel's ethical, democratic and diplomatic foundations. But both Hamas and Fatah are making it very difficult to end the occupation'. Well, if the first two sentences are true, and occupation is indeed destroying Israel, why do you start the following sentence with 'But...'? The logically correct link would be 'That is why'! Why on earth should Israel's sworn enemies oppose what leads to its destruction? Since occupation serves their purpose, they have been doing their damndest to prolong it till Israel collapses under the burden. So much for the Israeli mantra about 'the Arabs never missing a chance to miss a chance' - they have been following their above-described strategy consistently for these four decades. The greatest fools are those who take their enemies for fools.

Amb. Oren has it right. The Gaza withdrawl worked. Cast Lead achieved its goal, ending the stream of rockets into the south (yes there are still occasional attacks, but nothing like it was). Israel should follow the same path in the West Bank. Abbas will dither forever and is incapable of taking Yes for an answer. Determine a border, declare it, withdraw. To any rockets that come over, fire back ten.

Even if it is true, isn't it exactly the same Israel wants? So where's the difference?

... guilty-until-proven-otherwise... ... well, the truth is that you could say exactly that about 'greater-Israel' too... ... so I reckon we're just about quits on that score...

The only difference between the terrorists is that Hamas says what they mean, while Fatah tries to veil it in diplomacy: "Atwan: Arafat Signed Oslo Accords Hoping Jews Would Flee" (November 20, 2004) Yasser Arafat agreed to sign the Oslo Accords because he expected that the agreements would lead thousands of Jews to flee Israel. Abdel Bari Atwan, editor of the London-based daily al-Quds al-Arabi, said Arafat said so when they met in Tunis, days before he returned to the Gaza Strip. "The man told me, 'Listen, Abdel Bari, I know that you are opposed to the Oslo Accords, but you must always remember what I'm going to tell you. The day will come when you will see thousands of Jews fleeing Palestine. I will not live to see this, but you will definitely see it in your lifetime. The Oslo Accords will help bring this about.'"... http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Diplomacy/4426.htm There is no such thing as "Palestine" and there never will be- not here in OUR land, the land of Israel.

website for the final statement on the decisions of the sixth Fatah convention: http://www.e-fateh.org/paper_full_3.aspx Goals: Article (12) - total liberation of Palestine and the liquidation of the Zionist state economically and politically, militarily and culturally. Article (13) - the establishment of independent democratic Palestinian state with full sovereignty over all Palestinian territories There is no two state solution anywhere in the goals of Fatah. Abbas is the head of Fatah. The truth is out there. You simply have to plug the URL into the Google Arabic-English translator.

According to Avi Shlaim, Zionist leaders would publicly remark before the State of Israel was founded that their aim was to achieve sovereign control over the totality of Palestine.

Time for a little education. Everyone needs to look up the PLO's "phased plan." You can start with this... youtube.com/watch?v=WSyQgyaxbFk

You're in here arguing the case for the Palestinians every day on the basis that Israel is occupying territory (you believe) it shouldn't be in. Any pretence that you are a fair player is long gone after that last post of yours. You to support the argument of a terrorist who is calling for the end of Israel and you think that's "reasonable"? CJ:" Quite reasonable to want to see them gone." Nothing reasonable about it CJ.... or you for that matter. You're no better than Haniyeh.

Article was fairly substantive and I respect you, Mr. Shavit. However, only ignorance and blind advocacy of the quixotic Israeli Post-Zionists can explain your lack of realization regarding Hamas's principle tenets. Fact is, Hamas has been unabashedly honest about their desires to liberate all of "Palestine" always, dating back to their Charter, which I am sure you've read. Now, even if one wants to pretend that the Charter has no influence anymore and is merely a political platform is completely naive to the reality that Hamas is a terrorist organization who wishes to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, period. Thank god they have only primitive means of doing so.

Who'd want a neighbour who for 61 years has illegally acquired one's territory? By war. By illegal annexation. By illegal settlements. Who refuses to recognize your rights and who keeps offering the spare tyre in order to keep the rest of the stolen car for themselves? Quite reasonable to want to see them gone.

The transformation of Shaul Mofaz from a tough-tougher-toughest general into the proponent of a quite daring and sound idea, is amazing, to say the least. But it seems that the answer isn't too far from what he is saying.

Ari! What? You never read the Hamas Charter? Whoaa! You need to do better research. Lives are at risk here!

Hamas has this idea that they will liberate Palestine. So what? Israel. You guys liberate them from their Radicalism using psychology and Hamas will not be a threat. Nuff said.

Those who did not learn anything from the pullout from Gaza, propably would never learn anything. The alternative to endless and useless "negotiations" is not another disengagement. The real alternative is to finally say- the entire historical land of Israel belongs to Israel. Arabs have 22 states- Israel has one and she is not going to give up an inch of it. Don't like this-- tough!

The recent years of declarations and negotiations, particularly since 2002 with the Arab League declaration and the PA's acceptance of the Road Map proposal, it's clear that the aim for the Fatah movement is coexistence with Israel based on the 1967 border and exchanging land Israel will retain. The advancements made between PM Olmert and President Abbas suggest that the PA was intent on reaching a final status agreement and then bringing the resolution to a referendum vote. We still don't have a clarified Israeli version of what constitutes the borders between the two states either. It's not definitive as to what exactly Hamas intends for the Palestinians because on the one hand they claim to accept the 1967 borders but only offer a long-term hudna. Well no agreement can be signed with them along these lines because Israel can only sign with "end to conflict" clause. And most importantly, they need to know that the Holy Land did not arise with the Arab Islamic conquest in the 7th c

The only question that I have, is what is the Hamas/Fatah split? Was the videos of people being thrown off roof tops just to convince the West that there was a schism to be played off? Could it all be part of the theater?

stupid article....get your facts rigth.

There is no security purpose. They lead to less security if anything. The land is not disputed and if it is--all of it's residents come with it--not just Jews in settlements. Agree the land does not belong to Israel and progress can be made.