Getting killed for an illusion

you don't like the message. Geez guys, you didn't even finish gnawing on Carter for saying something you didn't wanna hear and here now we have calls to harrass this poor woman, a Jewish woman, because her message to her people doesn't fit the party line. It's getting pretty ridiculous, don't you think. I guess the party line is to kill any person, Jew or Gentile, who comes out with something you don't like. Will you ever get by the kill the messenger syndrome and address the issues as one of your own lays out to you? Sad state of affairs, yessiree, it is.

Give credit to the poster, I don't remember his name, that posted that on the Carter blog; simple, short and to the point. I adopted it which is why I put it in quotes. As for Nevada, we have many blogs, however, this is the HAARETZ blog dealing with Israeli issues and to discuss Nevada would not be responsive to the issues raised by the posts. Anyway, regards. PS Nevada is still beautiful.

Henderson Nevada! Must be a very lonely place for you to take up polishing turds. And failing, no less. I previously told you to take up rattlesnake wrestling. Cheers. PS Personal note: Henderson was beautiful country. I understand it is all built up now. I used to pass through there on my way to Vegas from Phoenix. Regards.

Hypocrisy is a strange animal. 'Cow will always need its tail more than once to fan flies'. There are a lot of overlooked points. This overlooked point is made exceedingly clear by you. Best regards.

idea that half the world supports Israeli bad behavior. The last survey done by the US gov't around the world voted US/Israel as the two most dangerous countries on the planet; we hired Karen Hughes to try to fix that notion without much success I am afraid. The last resolution against Israel vetoed by US, Palau and micro somebody; Europe didn't even vote. I believe your premise is quite an overstatement. If you have better polls, please send them to Bush's Fox News since they were the ones who were whining about the bad results and made them known.

Israeli bad behavior, not one on Australia. I presume they have their own to deal with whatever problems they have here. Why exactly do the rah rah bad behavior Israeli supporters always point to some other mess in the world as a reason why the world should not focus on the "only democracy in the ME" which at the present time is functioning as a rogue pariah state untouched by int'l law.

yet the posters are at it again today with Spic n Span, Oxy Clean; it just won't shine, nosiree it won't.

Dana is right about you maam. I read your posts on several Haaretz forums and you are a hatchet momma. Justice always does come around and you my lady will be first in line to get your just punishment for your evil spoutings about other humans. Count of it.

"She also advocated the IDF stroll into Gaza and use force to stop the Muslim hysteria. Would you condemn that? Of course you would." No, I would not. The IDF is the Occupying Power, and it has obligations as the Occupying Power. Including the obligation to maintain law and order. The IDF "withdrawal" was a sham, designed specifically to leave behind an overcrowded ghetto. This is the result. It is the result of an Occupying Power abrogating its responsibilities under the 4th GC. The IDF has to go back in and maintain order, and if that proves costly for the IDF and proves unpopular with the Israeli piublic, well, tough, because Israel should never have undertaken a UNILATERAL withdrawal. You misread me because you have a typical zionist mindset; what *we* want is what is important, and if decisions have to be made then we'll do it by talking *among* *ourselves*. You can't pretend that your obligations doesn't exist simply because they are onerous.

Good on you Amira for consistently standing up and speaking the truth. I really enjoyed your piece, great writing and very informative. Whoever says 'don't blame Israel' is totally kidding him/herself. Why has the US only backed Israel and Mahmoud Abbas in this current crisis so far? Why the economic embargo against the Hamas-led government? The Palestinians are being punished for electing a Hamas government, just like the Venezuelans for electing Hugo Chavez. To say Hamas gets money from Iran and therefore should be stopped is double-standards. So much for self-government and all that...

Hello Joe, Thank you for another great analysis and commentary! You always seem to hit the nail on the head and reveal the hypocrisy of the Zionist Regime and its rotten army & illegal settlements/settlers in the Palestinian territories. It seems there's no end to the propaganda and illusions they try to create about their presence & activities there. Yes, Amira always peels off a few more layers too and I am grateful to her and to Jimmy Carter for his book. But as the author Jonathan Cooke explains in his column Carter doesn't tell half. You may want to read at it: http://www.counterpunch.org/cook01192007.html Thanks again, Dutch

Hello Ballistic, Yes, it is time the Zionist enterprise was chastised and although I believe in divine intervention this time I feel that God is leaving the job to his people. After all, Moses gave his people the Ten Commandments and according to Exodus 20: 16 :17, Israel has violated many of God's laws with their propaganda against their neighbors and their daily murder of them by the Israeli Army. "You shall not give false evidence against Your neighbor ." "You shall not set your heart on your neighbor's house ... or any of your neighbor's possessions" and Exodus 20: 13 "You shall not kill" which the IDF has violated for the last five years with its murder of 4,000 Palestinians. Thus it is clear to me and people of conscience we have a moral responsibility to hold Israeli officials accountable for their behavior as many of the commandments also mirror our human rights laws and of course international law. Especially, the Fourth Geneva Convention which prohibits the settlements and settlers in the territories and UNSC 242 which prohibits the Army presence there. Plus the Palestinian peoples' Right to Life Law (below) which the Israeli Military Court & Israeli Supreme Court has failed to uphold. See URLs. ( http://www.kibush.co.il/show_file.asp?num=18356 http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/801781.html ) Lastly, when the ICJ in the Hague deemed the Israeli wall in violation of international law (14-1 vote ), it said member states have a right to sanction and boycott Israel if it did not comply with the law. So the law is on our side this time! Thanks again, keep calling for equal justice not one sided. Dutch P.S. According to the International Human Right to Life Law, article 6 : "Every human being has an inherent right to life. This will be protected by law. No one shall arbitrarily deprived of his right to life " The comment made in the General Comment 14 of the UN Rights Commission explains the importance of this right and it emphasizes that no derogation is not per- mitted either: "...the right to life enunciated in the first paragraph of article 6 of the international Covenant on Civil and Political Rights is the supreme right from which no derogation is permitted even in times of public emergency." Dutch

though they may not be known, the existence of some of the lamed vav in any generation can be surmised by people of insight. haven't some rabbis been able to discern a few here and there over the generations? And the point I made took into account the spirit of the torah, as you refer to it, which in the end is not only about being a really good person, in the passive sense but also about affecting change in the interest of justice, even if by the smallest of measures. The post 279 by Colin mentioned a couple of the necessary qualities, to which I would add courage to do and/or say the right things - a rather uncommon trait. By the way, I was surprised by your milder than usual rebuke. What's happening? nothing to do with global warming I trust?

"but Occupation is OVER in Gaza, or we don`t have the same definition of occupation." No, you don't. She is taking the definition that is codified in the 4th Geneva Convention, and you are taking the say-so of Arial Sharon. It's quite simple; the 4th GC codified what the Occupying Power can and can not do within the land that it occupies, and also codifies the steps it must take before it ceases being the Occupying Power. Simply taking all the soldiers who used to patrol *inside* the occupited territory and getting them to patrol around the *edge* of the occupied territory is simply not enough - the good people of Geneva were well aware of *that* trick, even back in 1949. The OP has to hand over ALL of its responsibilities to the authority that "replaces" it, and it must ensure that this authority *is* able to carry out all those tasks. If it doesn't then the responsibility continues to lie with them, and they remain the Occupying Power. As the IDF remains

with just the right dose of sarcasm (just the way I like it). No less true for it falling on deaf ears, at least on those who need most to listen in these forums.

Can't be such a bad society, where someone like Amira Hass is able to write on a regular basis in one of the leading newspapers, regardless of what your attitude towards her opinion is. Coming back from my first visit to the region, I still try to process the unbelievable amount of frustration, hate and fear but also of hospitaliy I encountered in the souks of Nablus and Hebron, in bars at Ramallah, Jerusalem (East and West) and Tel Aviv. I never made a more impressing visit in my life, apart from my visit to Auschwitz two years ago. Happy we, who live in a City/Country, where a Wall come down and no armed people are roaming the streets. Thank you, Amira, for your book and your articles, which gave me a first insight of the complexity of the problem. Keep up the good word. I will come back soon, this time Eilat, Haifa and Naharija will be on the program, as well as Tukarem, Jericho and Jenin... Best wishes to everbody in Israel and Palestine. Stay alive. Don't kill. Michael

Stop Pamela Kates using up all the exclamation points please. I want some for my own use.

Typical Zionist losers. Can't beat'em them with shouts of anti-semetism and chanting of "self-hating jew" then just smear'em till they do shut up. Didn't you try this method with Jimmy Carter too? It wouldn't surprise me if your brothers and sisters here haven't already beat you to the punch and not only tried the firing tack but sent a death threat or two for good measure.

Self-delusion will solve none of the problems of the ME.

None of the Lamed Vav Tzadikim can be known by anyone, including themselves. What is certain is that they must lead their lives according to the spirit of Tora. I seriously doubt that Amira does so.

David, if I would live in Gaza, I sure might applaud to your plan, but if I would be an inhabitant of the West Bank, my enthusiasm would be quite limited, I'm afraid. So as a Swiss my judgement of your plan would be the following: If your thoughts are going into the direction, to give the people in Gaza an honest chance to make something out of it and be a role model for the West Bank, in order to offer them the same possibility after a few months, I would give you the green light. But if your intentions are never ever to leave from the West Bank things would look very different. In general, I'm rather a friend of big solutions than small steps, because small steps haven't always proved to be efficient enough. By the way with big solutions, I don't mean only big concessions by Israel, but also a big reward for Israel which should be in the end a "warm" peace with her neighbours, not a "cold" one like todays with Egypt and Jordan....

Amira, Another article to blame Israel. You seem to be on the same wavelength with those who blame Israel for everything. Why should Israel go into Gaza and look for the armed militiamen? If they did you would accuse Israel the next day for another attack on innocent Palestinians. Enough with empty statements! Why don't YOU go and mediate between Fatah and Hamas? By now you should command some influence in Gaza. So occupation causes the infight.. Why do islamists kill Phillipinos in the Phillipines? Because Israel once had occupied Gaza? and Indonesians in Aceh? What's wrong with you? Maybe a visit to a psychiatrist could help you open your eyes and head. It's time you got off your high moral ground and learnt a few facts. These guys kill each other because....they go to paradise!!!!

It would be nice if the world was cut out like Zionist propaganda, a few slogans to explain away 60 years of opression, exile, and warfare but the reality in Gaza is much more complicated. Amira peeled a few layers off the top and gave an accurate penetrating insight of life behind the Gaza prison wall. It's an illusion there is a "PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY" or "government" when there is NO PALESTINIAN STATE. It's a BIG illusion Israel ever left Gaza to begin with. The walls, sniper towers, checkpoints and the same vile racist trigger happy IDF, who still consider Gaza as a target practise field, remain part of the daily reality for Gazans. West Bank residents can't visit the prisoners of Gaza. It's an illusion Gaza prisoners ever were given PAROLE or somehow their life sententences were reduced as Zionist proclaim. Having said that, Palestinians should under no circumstance turn guns on each other. Palestinians killing Palestinians is unthinkable and my thoughts on who to blame go beyond what this forum allows in space but Amira touched on the NUANCED dynamic at play regarding hamulas and I totally agree with the danger here. She is right and the fear is, while there won't be a civil war, one shouldn't underestimate the tribal factors--at times overriding nationalist objectives--and that is unforgivable.

Responding to the next article with asking for Haaretz to get rid of her, and nothing more of content? If she didn't bring all these talkbacks, she won't be as valuable. If you are serious, about having meaningful jouralistic input into this problem, go for it with me.

'She is an example of one of unfortunate Jewish features - self-hate. ' You're right about her being Jewish, but that's probably about it. I see nil evidence that she hates herself. Indeed, inasmuch as she chooses to live in Israel, it's improbable that she hates Jews in general. On the other hand, I have to admit that she does display some outdated, unfashionable Jewish traits. She places justice before self-interest. She manages to sympathize with the plight of others. She thinks moral principles should be taken seriously. Perhaps these are only general human virtues. But I certainly agree -- there's no place for them in the NEW JEW, that wonderful new creature who is building the glorious state that Israel is fast becoming. So out with Amira Hass. You don't want types like her. Not in your Israel. Come to think of it, I don't either.

one of the Lamed Vav Tzadikim walking among you. As is always the case, the bad guys (that's you two) can't see her good deeds, as absorbed as they are in their self-righteous hatred of all things arab (look at your own posts if you don't believe me). Wasn't there a situation with abraham who had to find a single just person in sedom and gemoreah and he couldn't? luckily for you, there is one in Israel. Her name is amira hass (OK, there are many more, I'll admit that...). It is thanks to people like her that those of your zealot camp have not turned to stone yet. Or maybe you have - at least to creatures with hearts of stone, sometimes mistaken for humans. Wow, this bible stuff seems to be growing on me...must be virulent! I should be taking a much needed break from trying to twick your programming.

The US at least has spent a good year encouraging Fatah to ignore the results of the election, to be intransigent, to finally go over to open conflict. A few weeks ago we even engineered an arms shipment to them. After all, they were probably worried they wouldn't win. Here in California, there was a scandal in a maximum security prison for chronically violent offenders. The guards were letting two inmates from rival gangs into a closed exercise yard and then betting on the outcome. Those down in the yard weren't the only villians present. I have no doubt that if, having insisted on the election in the first place, we had even encouraged Fatah to honor the outcome, we wouldn't be looking at this situation today.

Amira, I respect what you do because you do things to make things change, even if it does not please me, but Occupation is OVER in Gaza, or we don't have the same definition of occupation.And not a single thing changed in the palestinian mentality of radicals to recognize ISrael. As long as this "Refusal policy" or denial of reality of Hamas continues, Israel does not have to justify a minute to exist. If Israel has to be as charitable as you, you can be sure a minority will abuse this you can be sure. Let's not "tempt the devil" but rather fight it. AS Stefan Sweig wrote, there is a "dangerous pity". You are free to choose, and human bombs (kamikaze) too...Palestinians (their unique government) need to really get it together...

It would be nice if the world was cut out like Zionist propaganda, a few slogans to explain away 60 years of opression, exile, and warfare but the reality in Gaza is much more complicated. Amira peeled a few layers off the top and gave an accurate penetrating insight of life behind the Gaza prison wall. It's an illusion there is a "PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY" or "government" when there is NO PALESTINIAN STATE. It's a BIG illusion Israel ever left Gaza to begin with. The walls, sniper towers, checkpoints and the same vile racist trigger happy IDF, who still consider Gaza as a target practise field, remain part of the daily reality for Gazans. West Bank residents can't visit the prisoners of Gaza. It's an illusion Gaza prisoners ever were given PAROLE or somehow their life sententences were reduced as Zionist proclaim. Having said that, Palestinians should under no circumstance turn guns on each other. Palestinians killing Palestinians is unthinkable and my thoughts on who to blame go beyond what this forum allows in space but Amira touched on the NUANCED dynamic at play regarding hamulas and I totally agree with the danger here. She is right and the fear is, while there won't be a civil war, one shouldn't underestimate the tribal factors--at times overriding nationalist objectives--and that is unforgivable.

I am not one of the most ubiquitous posters here. I pick one or two topics at most. This week alone, I also did not comment on Ramon harassment, on the moving of ther fence to encircle and dispossess more palestinians, or on Olmert indictment for corruption. In the same vein as the suicide bomber in Eilat, I did not pick the arab resistance fighters killed (without suicide!) by israeli shooters, or the collateral damage caused to others. If I was to comment on one, I would comment on all. The daily killings in the west bank, of teens trying to crawl under gaza concentration camp fence to get some work, of fishermen blown out of the water, etc. are every bit as grievous as killing people at random in Eilat. In the USA we have school yard shootings by misfits who were bullied too long. In Israel and Palestine you have random victims killed for a conflct that should have been resolved ages asgo. The only commonality is the magnitude of the rage felt by perpetrators and victims' kin.

They way she puts together the words is beyond beautiful. She lays it down like it is, blaming those who are to blame. I love reading most people on here strike at Amira without even reading or considering the article. "The armed security organs of Fatah and Hamas were sent to fight, to kill and to endanger the welfare of the entire public in order to uphold the illusion of self-government under a foreign occupier, disguised as a concerned neighbor." -Haas

seems her tears aren't the only ones of convenience...

It would be nice if the world was cut out like Zionist propaganda, a few slogans to explain away 60 years of opression, exile, and warfare but the reality in Gaza is much more complicated. Amira peeled a few layers off the top and gave an accurate penetrating insight of life behind the Gaza prison wall. It's an illusion there is a "PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY" or "government" when there is NO PALESTINIAN STATE. It's a BIG illusion Israel ever left Gaza to begin with. The walls, sniper towers, checkpoints and the same vile racist trigger happy IDF, who still consider Gaza as a target practise field, remain part of the daily reality for Gazans. West Bank residents can't visit the prisoners of Gaza. It's an illusion Gaza prisoners ever were given PAROLE or somehow their life sententences were reduced as Zionist proclaim. Having said that, Palestinians should under no circumstance turn guns on each other. Palestinians killing Palestinians is unthinkable and my thoughts on who to blame go beyond what this forum allows in space but Amira touched on the NUANCED dynamic at play regarding hamulas and I totally agree with the danger here. She is right and the fear is, while there won't be a civil war, one shouldn't underestimate the tribal factors--at times overriding nationalist objectives--and that is unforgivable.

But that is what Hass is saying - both Hamas and Fatah are fighting over a hollow husk of an empty "authority" - one that does not exist to act as a GOVERNMENT of an independent STATE. Instead they are fighting over something that was designed as an instrument of repression of the Palestinian people, and that repression was to occur at the behest of the State of Israel through the efforts of Palestinian collaborators. Why *do* you think the most commonly voiced criticism of Arafat after 2000 was that he made no "attempt to control" his own population? To "combat the terrorists in his midst"? It's code: it means that they were disappointed that Arafat did not repress his people hard enough, and did not provoke civil war between Fatah (who were pencilled in for the role of collaborators) and all the other factions (who were not).

1. Are GAZANS FREE to build an AIRPORT, SEAPORT, CAN THEY GO FISHING,????????????????????? - GAZANS are digging tunnels to smuggle weapon. With AIRPORT, SEAPORT, free FISHING they would smuggle weapons. 2. Is GAZA'S AIRSPACE free from DRONES, F16. can they trade with the outside world ????????? - GAZANS are launching QASSAMS. They should be observed and punished. Trade with outside word would increase import of explosives and weapons. 3. Can GAZANS import FOODS, MEDICINES to come in ?????????????????????????????????????? - GAZANS import WEAPONS, EXPLOSIVES. Under these circumstances FOODS, MEDICINES should be under strict control. 4. WHO WOULD LIKE from the right Wings to live there and share their miseries.?????????????????????????????????? - GAZANS kidnapped those who liked to live there and share their miseries. You would kidnap even Amira Hass and Gideon Levy. By that reason non-Arabs don't live in GAZA.

"Where exactly did I say equal #`s." "What exactly do I have to back up?" You have to back up this statement: "why don`t you include the endless Soviet vetoes for the Arabs?" Care to explain to me what "endless" means in this context, PETER SM? I can't see how it means anything other than veto after veto in numbers without end. Which is quote a BOLD statement to make, when there have been a grand total of 9 USSR/Russian vetos over the course of 60 years of UN SC Resolutions dealing with the Arabs - the last one, incidently, on February 29 1984.

stop israeli terror!!

Amira Hass is a prime example of what fraternizing or maybe sleeping with the enemy can do to a persons ability to think clearly. She is a brain washed stooge for arab/palestinian propaganda and it would be fine with me if she stayed in Ramallah (or wherever she lives) forever and never puts her filthy foot on Jewish soil.

Then the racist fascist libels and lies in the OFFICIAL Arab media for the last 60 years then top it off with the Hamas charter The "peace loving" lefty /Islamist/neo nazi alliance is starting to sound very hollow. Try to get it into your head.When Arabs or anybody else shoot at each other the protagonists are at fault.

Marilyn, you don't have to defy them to live it. They did, and they didn't like it one bit. Just ask the British soldiers they killed in the King David Hotel, and the British soldiers they hung in retaliation for arresting members of their own group of terrorists Stern/Hagannah gangs. They did the same exact things the palestinians did when their own freedoms were limited...Nothing different.

Marilyn, you don't have to defy them to live it. They did, and they didn't like it one bit. Just ask the British soldiers they killed in the King David Hotel, and the British soldiers they hung in retaliation for arresting members of their own group of terrorists Stern/Hagannah gangs. They did the same exact things the palestinians did when their own freedoms were limited...Nothing different.

Where exactly did I say equal #'s.Where Johnboy? What exactly do I have to back up? Your comment is as irrelevant as Guy from NY's red herring. By the way Dershowitz was a critic of the Carter BOOK Johnboy,the BOOK and he said just that at the end of the meeting at Brandeis when Carter admitted there were inaccuracies in the BOOK Johnboy. Dershowitz said he had no problems with Carter's peace aspirations etc.etc. just the BOOK Johnboy just the BOOK.

Yonatan Netser, well said, and shalom.

about Moses and his people found worshipping the golden calf on this blog. I was just on the long one and said the same thing. Boy the hypocrits are really on the blog with the fence and what they were saying was very sad; clearly they have taken off their mask and revealed their true selves; I do believe God is gonna intervene; yessiree, and I am not a religious person. Time for divine chastisement, not from Iran, for those black hearted people as I saw on that post, talk about the "little satan". I don't know what is in the Israeli water today, but the aggressors are completely unmasked. Appreciated your post. Keep blogging. No point in attempting to reach these hard hearted posters; no siree there isn't!

That paragraph has no meaning, makes no sense. I've tried reading it several time and have no clue what she means. Who were they sent by? Who gave the orders and instructions? If it were Israel, what do you think would make them obey? The logic eludes me and I'd appreciate your take on what it means?

"Arafat`s counter offer at Camp David was very simple: A return to the 1967 borders." Actually, Barak's offer offered almost all of the West Bank, Gaza and even part of Jerusalem. I remember reading about this AS IT WAS HAPPENING in publications like the Chicago Tribune, the Washington Post, even in an editorial, in all places, the Guardian. Arafat rejected it and then instigated the second intifada. Sharon visited THE TEMPLE MOUNT, which is also a holy site to Jews. I remember reading about this account on CNN.com. I guess Jews don't have the same rights to visit their holy sites as do Muslims, right? How about you giving me some honesty. The Palestinians have spent decades killing Jews in Israel and now they're killing each other. Is this all Arabs can achieve, endless murder and bloodshed? You even happily kill each other. I guess it doesn't matter whose blood it is, as long as it's blood you spill.

I don't really care what a ghostdog is. You chose the name, that's your problem. The Israelis stole nobody's land, my brainless little arabist. If the Palestinians want peace and a state of their own, then they should stop committing violence against Israelis. The Palestinians could have had a peace agreement and a pathway towards statehood long ago, if they had continued with the negotiation process with Barak. Funny how people like you find reasons to justify the second intifada, a second round of Palestinian violence against Israelis, but don't acknowledge that it was the Palestinians who gave up on peace--and statehood--in 2000 because they saw they couldn't grab all of Israel, after all. Freedom of movement for the Palestinians comes when they have earned it, not when their nutcases go into Israel to kill Israelis at bus stops and markets. If the Palestinians were to act civilized, they would earn civilized treatment. It's that simple, even for someone as simple as you.

It is snowing here and I just expect to see that it is the fault of the occupation--We have an expression =She is cuckoo for coco puffs. I finally found where it really fits

Simple Math: Add those who lived in British Mandate 60 years ago (1947), and their descendants, with those from Arab/Moslem countries. And MORE Jews were driven out from their Middle-East/Moslem-Land Homes then Palestinians, anyway you count. And the Tit-for-Tat was started by Palestinians, 60 years ago; and many times since, breaking unilaterally every one of their agreements to stop it.

"If you want to talk about vetoing UN and UNSCR resolutions why don`t you include the endless Soviet vetoes for the Arabs?" Really? Have a quick look here: http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/membship/veto/vetosubj.htm Between September 10 1972 and now the USA has applied its veto in support of Israel on 40 occasions Between February 16 1946 and now the USSR (or Russia) has used its veto in support of an Arab country on 9 occasions. 9 versus 40, and that 9 applied over almost exactly twice the period of time. Note that Russia has *not* produced anything like the Negroponte Doctrine of 2002, where the USA has stated that it will *automatically* apply its veto whenever there is a resl against Israel that does not ALSO include a condemnation of terrorist groups. Automatic. No matter what Israel's actions - security related or NOT - if there is no condemnation of terrorism then out comes the veto. Pathetic - the actions of a toady state, not a superpower.

I am not trying to blame Palestinians for their conditions, neither am I trying to say that Israel is to blame. I am doing my best to stay way from the blame game and try to focus on what is there today and how that can be solved. There are some things that the Israelis need to do and some things that Palestinians need to do to improve their own conditions. And either one of them blaming other for the problems they face, is not going to help them. I just want to encourage each side to empower themselves with the power of choice and responsibility. My post was aimed at Palestinians cause the article was about them. Amira, sorry I did not know that you were Jewish. I think it shows how hard you are trying to have the voice of Palestinians be heard. You are doing a good job, but I think you can do a better job for the state of Palestinians if you help them realize that they are not completely powerless. They need to unite and stand up to Israel in a non-violent, educated, matured way.

GAZA is FREE is an Illusion . These People are not allowed (THAT'S FREEDOM) build an AIRPORT, a SEAPORT, their air space is full of drones, helicopters ,F16. their intern.waters are occupied by Isr.Vessels They cannot import export anything. If they travel outside , they may see themselves kept out for weeks if not months, before allowed to come back to their families. WHAT A FREE COUNTRY, I'm Sure ARIZONA IS NOT LIKE THAT ? OH! Ilike that"What are we occuping Then"

What occupation?Israel left gazz more than a year ago!!!!!!! The dogs are fighting over bones Each side wants the moneys from the sucker donnor States...They don't care about the pal people...would the pals have a little brain,gaza could be made into a heaven for tourists...all they know is to blame Israel,and to be cannon fodder for their corrupt and murderous leaders...

All well and good. So, what were the shortcomings of the suicide/homicide bomber in Eilat(sp? And what of his misdeeds? Was he an Israeli with problems? That has been a topic in Haaretz. Unless you ONLY comment on what you perceive are Jewish failures. Capish?

Perhaps you would prefer a return to the status quo ante of 1948-67 when Gaza belonged to Egypt and the excellent Egyptians kept your beloved Palestinians under dusk to dawn curfew for every day of those 19 years. Of course the Egyptian decision to push the Jews into the sea in 1967 backfired and they left Gaza. You well know that the Egyptian border with Gaza is wide open and everything from carnations to rifles and cannons are coming in daily. The only screw-up since Israel left Gaza is the idiocy of the Palestinian decision to use it as a rocket and terror base instead of a basis for developing a sane, forward-looking economy and a trusted country. If you redirected the energy of just a third of your anger against Jews to help your Palestinian heroes create something of value, you might get some real satisfaction. Otherwise, it seems, the only satisfaction you may be getting is in the knowledge that your close to the top of the list of bleaters who make noise but accomplish nothing.

Hey Duch, "You would do well" to inform yourself before writing nonsense! "It is far more noble" to shut up when you don't know!

Are they FREE to build an AIRPORT, SEAPORT, CAN THEY GO FISHING,????????????????????? Is Their AIRSPACE free from DRONES, F16. can they trade with the outside world ????????? Can they import FOODS, MEDICINES to come in ?????????????????????????????????????? WHO WOULD LIKE from the right Wings to live there and share their miseries.??????????????????????????????????

She also advocated the IDF stroll into Gaza and use force to stop the Muslim hysteria. Would you condemn that? Of course you would.

Thank you Dutch

Jane, I do not doubt your seriousness for a second. Please immagine Jews like Amira, sadly far too many Jews for my understanding & comfort, quiet few that do not mind Israel `folding the tent`. I met & talked to many in my lifetime, I call them `Jews on paper`. Because they are something else first & Jews second, with something else so far in front practically from childhood & brainwashing, so blinding & deafing, all of the `Jew` that is left is nothing but the heritage. That is why I always laugh when I talk to or see someone like that, beating his/her chest in proud `but I am a Jew` criticism & explanation.

We all KNOW that Amira HASS suffered a lot during WW11; she is now suffering to the same degree to witness the sufferings of the PALESTINIANS. This LADY deserves respects not insults from some illinformed individuals. If only we could be bless with some more of her calibre, this HOLY LAND will be a perfect place to live.GOD BLESS YOU my friend.

With the issue at hand?. If you want to talk about vetoing UN and UNSCR resolutions why don't you include the endless Soviet vetoes for the Arabs? Blaming shifting leads to nowhere and dutifully parroting blame shifting helps nobody. There are those who chose to pull themselves up by their bootlaces and then there are others.

I never fail to read your posts, you are really fantastic against these people from the cuccoo lands.

"When two Palestinian children are killed by Palestinians it`s an assassination, and all Israelis weep for them. When dozens of Palestinian children are killed by Israelis the children are to blame, and Israelis rejoice in their deaths while pointing out that `it was an accident.` Utterly vile." That's stated as well as can be - illustrated the problem better than my response to kaludia etc. ever could. It's all about the point of view, right? they (right-wingers) want to concentrate on every misdeed of palestinians by way of excusing all israeli misdeeds. Won't cut it, though, at least as long as some of us see through their ploys.

"The armed security organs of Fatah and Hamas were sent to fight, to kill and to endanger the welfare of the entire public in order to uphold the illusion of self-government under a foreign occupier, disguised as a concerned neighbor. " So very, very right. And yet not one zionist here in this talkback will even consider this point. Just pure venom directed at Amira Hass, who has more courage than all of you warmongering, hate-filled, racist zionists put together and rolled into one ugly, ugly mass.

Our beef is not with the facts but with which side's atrocities and/or conscience gets highlighted. You obviously prefer to draw attention to all things evil about muslims and/or arabs. You accuse me of ignoring their bad deeds. Fair enough, I indeed do not comment here in haartez about muslim injustices and failings because this newspaper is about israel not jordan or bangladesh or whatever. You people on the right (and I believe I am correct in bundling you with them) like to point an accusing finger at "leftists" like me, accusing us of only criticizing Israel. My response to that is always the same - it's a strawman argument. For all you know, I may post similarly in Tehelka or some muslem copuntry's paper about THEIR problems. And you do know by now that I am NOT a friend of religion, surely. Any religion. But this is a jewish paper and Israel and its many errors and misdeeds is what the topics here are. That we focus on that is not a lie, merely on topic. Capish?

If providing aid to the Palestiians means more kids blowing up other people's kids then I say no more aid. If aid is used to buy more weapons to kill one another then no more aid. Irresponsible governing should not be rewarded by other countries in the form of aid.

your intersting reporting on the Palstinians miseries, without people like you and few others, we would have been staying in the dark. The right wingers may pretend that they dislike your factual reporting but nevertheless , they show that they ALWAYS read your articles. judging by their many POSTS. Keep it going.

That says it for me too. Thanks for the words.

Swiss never fails to apologize for the Pals. What a condescending, rascist attitude. They elected Fatah, they elected Hamas and both groups remain popular. This is their way, the way of gang thugs. Or did you forget, there is no occupation in Gaza. And if they behaved like civilized people, there would be open borders, commerce, prosperity, etc. But they don't.

So tell me with so many disregarded UN resolutions and as many Security resolutions having been vetoed by our Country (The USA) WHAT RESPONSIBILITIES HAS ISRAEL ACCEPTED? I can tell you Mr. Democratic American....ZILCH I bet you are the type to blame slavery on the black people just because there were several dishonest chiefs that sold them into slavery too.

The Jews are responsible if they invade Gaza, and according to Amira, responsible if they don't. The Jews withdrew from Gaza and then caused Arab rocket attacks on the Negev by doing so. The Jews cuased the Egyptians to pen in their brethren in Gaza from 1948 until 1967, and the Jews prevented Arab "education" from flourishing. The Jews occupy Tel Aviv and continue the Arabs pain so they are incapable of preventing Arab armed gangs from shooting Arab women and children. The Jews prevent the Gazans from building societal institutions just by breathing. Who are these Jews? They are our common misfortune. No wonder the Gazans prefer Ahmadinejad over peace. How can the Arabs prosper if the Jews are around? And if the Jews are dead, who will there be to blame? Like in Poland.... Amira, love ya, write often. Shalom!

You say to Amira "Israel occupies your land." Apparently you do not know that Amira Hass is the Jewish child of Holocaust survivors. She is not a Palestinian. I wonder what her parents would think? I wonder if she so hates her own heritage that she must take on the cloak of another.

I agree with every word and believe that the Palestinians are in large part slaves to their own drama and can't find a way out of their internal problem due to complete lack of self-reliance. That is in part due to the occupation but also in part because of consistently following the wrong leaders. First Arafat who brought them nothing and now Hamas that is bringing them less than nothing. All who want peace are praying that they break out of the pattern of utter failure and find a path to success and statehood.Where is their John Kennedy their FDR who could show them that there is a better way? Israel will never have peace as long as the Palestinians stay stuck where they have been for 60 years. Three generations of waste...it's too sad.Absolutely pitiful.

And the bottom line is that Amira Haas is wraped up in her own perspective that is so against Israel that no matter what it does, or in this case doesn't do, it is wrong.I wonder if she believes Israel should exist at all or if all the Jews should just pack up and leave.I mean that with all seriousness.To me it is unimaginable to think that there are Jews who think like that.I wonder where the Haas family would go.Would my family go back to Yugoslavia?Oh right, there is no Yugoslavia.....It's mind boggling.

My firs thought was immediately about reatliation, without reading a single respond. Now that I have read yours, I can explain my though & my feelings on how way more so than usual such articles `damage` the writer`s image in the intelligent eye. No matter how strong the ability of self control is, either birth given or from professional training & obligations, there are moments in everyone`s life when in strong state of enragement, disappointment, guilt, even in the drunken & `last huray & obsolvement` state as we have witnessed, the natural feelings `spill out` even if for the short time & explained. What `humanist` fighting for the cause is upset at military force not retaliating, suddenly disregarding how many civilian lives the humanist is so vigorously `protecting` may have been lost during heavy offensive? Only the one who clearly realizes & greatly upset at blown `victimhood` excuse greatly damaging the ultimate higher up goal of `convicting & punishing `Israel at any cost.

Exactly right! Instead of taking their kids to commando camp, take them to school and give them something to live for, not die for. After 60 years of crap, the rest of us are getting tired of babysitting adults. Pride and Honor are not in suicide or homicide. That is just a way of running away from life.

they need to join the 21st century and get out of the 11th. Culture has remained unchanged for too long. It isn't about religion, it's about living with the rest of us in peace. Not screaming fatwa every time they don't like what someone says or does. Everyone says 1.2 billion Muslims on the planet. Well, what about the 5.3 billion that are not Muslims? We count too.

Amira, I know that what I am about to say will sound like hollow words because they come from someone who can only imagine how hard it must be to be under an occupation. But what I am about to say applies to all humans who face diffcult situations in life. When we start blaming one issue in our lives for the rest of the problems we have or we create, then it means that we let the one issue get to our soul. Israel occupies your land and Palestinians have allowed it to occupy their hearts, minds, and souls by blaming Israel for every problem that they have. Until Palestinians learn to take responsibility for their own conditions, they will be occupied. Even if Israel leaves your lands today, you will still be occupied in your hearts, minds, and souls. The first step to ending this occupation is to free your hearts, minds, and souls and empower yourself with the power to choose. Power to take responsibility. Every human being has the power to choose every day of their lives.

after 911 too. Handing out candy and dancing in the street. I don't want my gov to give them aid.

00:06 Hamas, Fatah exchange fire in Gaza, no injuries reported (Haaretz) Amira, where are you? We need to blame Israel!

Israel is a very small part of the Middle East. If the Muslims country wanted peace it would have hapined a long time ago. THey hate and dont trust the Pal. THey dont want them intergreated into their society. THE ARABS WILL FIGHT TILL THE LAST PAL IS DEAD

this woman is deranged & is probably a partner to iran's holocaust denials!

Pl.ace the blame on the right people.Its all the Jews fault. What right did thedy have leaving Gaza and a working economy How dare them reduce the suicude bombings. THe parents cant dance in the street. Blame the Jews LOL LOL

That so many insist on the charade of a Free Gaza is not merely fantastic, it verges on diabolical. The reality is that Gaza resembles more a sealed open air prision where Israel has every means to control the unfortunate inhabitants. This is reflected in the current siege with its punishing economic sancions, an extention of the general punishments upon Palestinians for making the wrong choice in their democratic elections. And what of the devestating military destruction wroth upon Gaza during last fall's Operation Summer Rain? Let's see that was in response to those evil Gazan's who abducted a Israeli soldier, right? Indeed, and if Israel hadn't been doing everything in it's power to provoke such an action... mock air raids, Gazans wounded and killed by gunboats shelling public beaches, towns shelled by artillery and IAF attacks, etc... then this might actually be so simple. The Pariah State fools only itself. http://electronicintifada.net/bytopic/442.shtml

Next time you should write what you mean.

Instead of focusing on the West Bank where all the argueing is going on between Palistinians and Isralies we focus on what we can agree on. Namely the Gaza strip. Why not put the West Bank on hold and work on making a Palestinian nation in Gaza first? Israel will give gaza full atonomus rights and recognise its status as an independant state. In return the citizens of Gaza will agree to a peace agreement with Israel. From there we can move on to issues like border security, status of air space and water and electricity. How dose this sound?

Marcus... Read what you wrote, there is so much hatered. Read, accept, understand, think and then reply. Don't call people names, be decent.

you palestinians have blamed Israel for invading Gaza and now again accusing Israel for not invading Gaza , this is palestinian hypocricy..

British counterterrorism police arrested nine men in an alleged kidnapping plot Wednesday - a plan that involved torturing and beheading a British Muslim soldier and broadcasting the act on the Internet, according to news reports. "People don't trust their own children any more," said Shabir Hussain, chairman of the nearby Ludlow Road Mosque in Birmingham. "You feel like you should challenge your son or daughter: 'Where are you going at night? What are you watching on TV? What are you doing on the Internet?' Source: Jerusalem Post, today's Internet edition It's happaning in England. Now. Today. Do you also blame the Jews, sorry, the Israelis, Ms. Haas?

Hello Michelle Joking aside I sent her a post telling her she is running out of ideas. And went further. You can read it further down. I am angry with myself because I had no intention ever again to read her spin. But since it was a short missive I thought I?d remind her of a few incidents. If you expected Amira to mention the murders in Eilat you can wait forever. She never does and never will. She has an agenda,but it doesn?t seem to help the Arabs over there. About having an Arab boy friend or no,or if she may have to wear a ?burqa? how funny and ridiculous. No,she doesn?t suffer from amnesia,nor any other health impediments. Her an another like Gideon Levy have an undying love for terrorists,and cannot live without their presense. Michelle,sorry for the hilarity,but what can anyone else say?

Youre "big Mouth " is admirable not because I agree with most of what you Say but why you say it.I can admire anyone who defends their beliefs if they do it with dignity and respect for those they oppose. Here I find mostly mindless and repititious off the point one liners seasoned with the usual dash of insults.

You arguments are pathetically simple and highly dishonest (or perhaps based on "ignorance by choice"). "Arafat couldn`t even offer Barak a counter-offer in negotiations, but deliberately turned to violence against INNOCENT ISRAELI CIVILIANS." Arafat's counter offer at Camp David was very simple: A return to the 1967 borders. The Israelis and Dennis Ross said take this offer or else...ie, they weren't taking counter offers. Please refer to NYTIMES. When Israel finally decided to return to further talks (at Taba), the offer at Camp David was exposed as garbage. (please compare the offers). The second intifaddeh started when Sharon visited the Al Aksa compound with 100's of police and attack copters flying overhead. Very stupid. Then, the proceeded to slaugher 18 unarmed worshippers who chose to protest Sharon's visit. Please plot the number of deaths Israel inflicted over time vs. that of Arafat.... Honesty would be greatly appreciated.

" Why "silence" you when you can keep making a fool of yourself?"- Then gimme another chance to keep it up! Hehehe... First, tell me what is a ghostdog. Here's a hint: the context is in ancient Japan...now show us u culture. U aslo wrote: "What is the agenda of the state of Israel? The same it has always been: to live in peace and security with its Arab neighbors, including the Palestinians"- My little brainless zionist, UN resolution stipulate that u must get out of the territories, so I have news for u: The Pals know it as well as everybody else, so to live in peace with them u have to stop stealing land behind the green line, simple enough no? Second- To get out of Gaza is not what is beeing asked of Israel- To stop the occupation is what is beeing ask: That means- freedom of movement, independance, self rule,ect... Anything less won't cut it. If u want peace, stop stealing land. Then the onus of peace will be on the Pals and any criticism to them will be welcomed.

Long time no talk Kimmy My thoughts precisely.The other day Cipora opined how full of weapons they are.I also reminding her that obviously much dosh for armalites and therefore certainly not starving as some people had in the past trying to trick us into believing the total nonsense. Indeed yes,their main purpose is to kill as many Jews as possible,and this coming from the President no less--to aim thier guns at Israel rather than each other.Can you credit it? This is the man that President G.W. says he can do business with.Utter hog wash. Buenas Noches soon...

What don't you understand. They muredered before the occupation, they murder all over the world. So muslims in Mogadishu, Iraq, Lebannon kill each other because Israel occupies them? In Bali? You are really a moron.

This occupation of GAZA is the collective MADNESS of the mind from a people doing nothing to better themselves for 60 years except generating hatred for everyone on the planet. Seems like all the tens of billions the world has given to the palestinians have gone into weaponry, and the salaries of those carrying weapons. Every common palestinian is at or below the poverty line because of the failed and corrupt policies of their crooks, thugs and murderers in charge. No jobs=no hope=no future=blame the jews. FAILED, VIOLENTand CORRUPT LEADERSHIP + SHEEP...blame the jews. fatah kills hamas...blame the jews. Time for the Pals to accept their collective failure

Who knows, Avi, maybe you are correct with your suspicion about the hidden Arab thoughts. But you know what, if there is calm and a cease fire in place for a few years, many of them, especially if they have a family, will start thinking twice whether its worth to give it all away again. It's just the way human beings work.

ODP, actually I think there were several polls taken both in the territories and in the surrounding Arab states over the past years. Of course the numbers change each time (as they do in Israel, by the way), but I am quite convinced that my guess is not too wrong. The historical thinking problem in Israel is the crazy belief that you have to be nasty with your (Arab) neighbours in order to gain respect. I never understood that. You know, usually if you are trying to be nice with people, the answer will be similar, maybe not immediately, but after a while yes. Maybe Israel never had enough patience.

Amira, please remember that since Israel left Gaza, there has been nothing but rockets and shootings. Abbas has done nothing to curb violence. Such irresponsible behavior by PA can only be translated into hostile actions by Israel in order to legitimatly protect it's citizens. There can be no excuses for terrorist acts that are actually hurting palestinians more than israelis. That's the point of view most americans share. Am I wrong? if so, please explain yourself!

Yes I'm aware of what happened before Israel was re-born; the Arab riots, the Mufti's connections with the Nazis, the British bias in favor of the Arabs, etc. I studied it in school, I just didn't want to make my post more complicated and I thought I made my point when I said Arabs attacked us the day Israel was created. Thank you anyway.

I completely agree. The biggest racists are those that defend the Palestinians regardless and manage to deflect any responsibility from them. The Palestinians want to achieve statehood, but how can they attain independence of territory when they neglect nurturing the kind of personal autonomy that enables them to determine right from wrong, and to choose one and be accountable for it. The Palestinian supporters, in their benign form of racism, are nothing more than patronizing and do the Palestinians a disservice in the end.

"When two Palestinian children are killed by Palestinians it`s an assassination, and all Israelis weep for them. When dozens of Palestinian children are killed by Israelis the children are to blame, and Israelis rejoice in their deaths while pointing out that `it was an accident.` Utterly vile." You are so right H50. They will blame it on the UN,UNWRA,Lebanon,Egypt,Jordan,Iraq,Iran,Syria,Peace Now, they will blame everyone else but themselves. Just as with Jimmy Carters book you can tell when a person is right, they all start bleating or whining the same ole garbage in unison. These idiots think like its still pre-1990 and that Israel still has control over what we can see and hear coming out of Palestine and that people only see Israel's side of the story. They need to realize the worlds eyes have been uncovered since then.

Until the last days, we can consider Mme Haas to be an enrolled journalist, more enrolled in the Palestinian cause than a free-newsperson. But commiting the attrocity of helping the assasins of innocent Palestinian children, make it the difference. Instead of protect with her voice those innocent children killed by Hamas &Fatah, she preferes to blame Israel (even no IDF nor Israelis are inside Gaza!!!!!) quote from Mme Haas "The armed security organs of Fatah and Hamas were sent to fight, to kill and to endanger the welfare of the entire public in order to uphold the illusion of self-government under a foreign occupier, disguised as a concerned neighbor. " quote me Stop this BULLSHIT!

Hass there is no Gaza occupation, or perhaps you should re read an interview you did with Hinayh (sp) http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=6&x_article=1077

The fact is all these internal conflicts in these countries have been created and financed by external powers in order to prevent these arab countries to develop and become a force that counts and could defend the interest of their region and countries

So I guess you are saying that Palestinians are not responsible for anything they do then? I agree that Israelis ARE responsible for what they do as human beings. So are Palestinians NOT human? Your response was rediculous beyond belief.

All these people here that say they support Palestinians are really racist towards them even more than Israel - never do they attribute any responsibility towards Palestinians. They are instead an "indigenous people", i.e. a people too "primitive" to make decisions for themselves. All human beings are capable of making decisions. Just like Israel decided to take all its settlers out of Gaza (by referendum), Palestinians can decide to stop firing Qassams and carrying out "Martyrdom Operations" (know as suicide bombings by the recipients). Amira Hass is part of this group - of those that idealize the less fortunate. Doing so will only lead towards more reckless acting and shirking of responsibility by the Palestinians.

?Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed.? M L King

I thought of Amira`s `usual` next step, thought that as a full pledged Pal plight & state bearer, there was no way she had anything intelligently argumentive to present or say for a while. But I never though Pal infighting could `get on her nerves` in such a degree & spoil her `occupation blindfolds & shield`, that in order to continue her `Israeli finger pointing` she will resort to & have the audacity to blame the IDF for not retaliating & invading Gaza, of all things. Not to mention all the other `blah, blah` for Israeli so & so, that in line with the IJ reasons looks especially ridiculous. Does the `hamula tradition` desperation sets in or what? Usually she momentarily angers me but not this time. As a matter of fact I can not wait for the next Mr. Levy `charade` also.

Amira I don't know how old you are,but if it is the "occupation" why is it that these Arabs never complained when they were occupied by Egypt and Jordan(illigally I may add)unlike Israel,that lost thousands of its young men and women to save themselves from armies that attacked it? Israel finally won the wars and thus are now in the so-called occupied places you accuse them of occupation?You and your "proteges" who complain now,but did not then?Odd that is it not dear Amira? I will remind you that neither of the aforementioned countries would countenance the thought of having to return to these places! Heavens no!They treated their Arabs with contempt and disgracefully.They would shudder at the thought.REMEMBER BLACK SEPTEMBER??Just a thought.Still you continue with your spin. Why don't you remind them what it was like at the time hmmm? I'll bet you'd be hung by your nails if you do,I'll wager...

Amira Hass keeps on with her stupid articles and I am sure at the end of the day Amira herself doesn't believe a word of the garbage we usually get from that woman

Your nickname lends itself to ridicule. Don't pretend that "being called names" is something you have to rise above, when you chose your name yourself. What is the agenda of the state of Israel? The same it has always been: to live in peace and security with its Arab neighbors, including the Palestinians. To this end, Israel has made peace with Jordan and has given back the Sinai to the Egyptians for peace with them. Name me the number of peace agreements the Palestinians have made over the decades. How do you count to zero? Arafat couldn't even offer Barak a counter-offer in negotiations, but deliberately turned to violence against INNOCENT ISRAELI CIVILIANS. Occupation? Is Gaza being occupied right now? No, Israel gave it back to the Palestinians and now they are killing each other there. Won't they ever get it together? Yes, I agree about your big mouth, but all your accusations are injustices to Israel. Why "silence" you when you can keep making a fool of yourself?

It is plain the rulers are not starving and still they have Money for weaponry. I rather nobody gave them money either. They prefer to have their own people starving because their main interest is to kill Jews.

yesterdays mutterings from a yesterdays journalist. Running out of puff. Stale breath for "news"

It's Israel's fault that arabs act out revenge against each other? Occupation or not, Israel is not the cause of arab savagery and violence. Arab DNA is.

Amira, you are almost arab, the word responsability is unknown...

I really despise what Palestinians are doing to each other. I truly am not enjoying the show. With all the world attention they have been getting for 60 years, it's like a babysitting assignment that never ends for anyone.

Seems Isreal just cant win no matter what. Get involved and crack down, oh no, dont do that, something will go wrong and they will be murderous occuppiers, better to stay out of it and let them solve their problems. Oh wait, why isnt Isreal coming in and helping us, they dont care about anyone but themselves. This is an obvious no win situation

Like I said in other posts; beeing called names by less than honorable mischief makers and their apologists doesn't take away any sleep from me. Now to the matter at hand, you wrote: "She might rejoice in the deaths of Palestinian or Hezbollah terrorists, but considering their agenda can you blame her? Such murderers are hardly innocent." And what is the agenda of the Israeli state? Sending settler beyound the green line with the full protection (belligerence) of the IDF and the full approbation of the zealots is not much of a more glorifying agenda. Because everybody knows what actions will have to be applied to the innocent civilians of the territories in order to protect that ilk. Every body knows it will resort to killing of innocent Pals, CHGODMK. Tryind to silence that fact doesn't make you more innocent then them. By the way,I don't have a lot of money but I have a very big mouth: I try to use to cry out the injustices, in Canada and abroad...

Ms. Hass, you are an invaluable asset to your readers. Thank you for insights and observations that could only come from a resident of Gaza. An illuminating article. Keep up the good work.

"Avi, today is not yesterday." You asked the hen or the egg didn't you? And I don't suppose you've got something to back your theory about the Arab countries do you? As for the WB and Gaza, the majority elected Hamas which basically says "death to the Jews and Israel". No 67 boarders, no nothing. One Palestine from Jordan to the sea. You won't convince me the Palestinian majority wants peace with Israel. They may wish for a ceasefire and get a state in WB and Gaza, but it will still be a cease fire until they think they're in a better position.

And long before Israel were independent, the Arabs were massacring Jews and mufti Husseini suggested Hitler apply the ?final solution? in Palestine. Husseini, who spent the war in Europe, was close friends with Eichmann and played an important part in the Shoah.

No wonder none of the Haters responded to your comments. I hope that you will make your voice heard.

My wife Pompeia had the reputation of being a whore, which is why I divorced her.

Throughout history, many people have been in less than enviable situations. Jews have lived in ghettos for centuries and dont resort to the kind of violence Arabs in gaza do. The reason for their violence is the constant incitement to violence in their education, culture, religion. There is enough annecdotal evidence throughout history to prove this correct.

A good start would be repairing the greenhouses they wrecked. If they got busy building, they would be too tired to fight. Send Carter there, he can help with the building. Does Habitat for Humanity have a branch in the ME?

I was starting to wonder if I had my info all wrong. I was sure we were all out of GAZA too. What are we occuping then?

Your assumption of the statistics is misleading if not false. Even some of the "moderates" would demand an ROR. And a good chunk of the hardliners won't accept Israels existence.

Shalom Freedman, The Palestinian people have every right to reclaim their historic name as Israelis do. After all, they have lived in the region since the Jews were kicked out of Rome and have lived and farmed in the region since. You would do well to remember the Palestinian people didn't need a take a plane, or boat or train to get to Palestine. They were already there and the world re- cognizes them as the indigenous people of Palestine. Israelis are a new invention since 1948 and I might add the intruders and aggressors in the Middle East today. Although --I don't approve of suicide bombing I feel it is far more noble to fight and die for one's country than it is to steal and occupy another peoples' land and claim its your biblical right. How atrocious. Thus the world is much more sympathetic to the Palestinian mother's loss than the theft of your pioneer settlers. Dutch

What were the excuses when Arabs began massacring Jews in the region in 1920-21? 1929? 1936-39? What were the excuses for kicking every single Jew out of Gaza, the West Bank, and East Jerusalem when Egypt and Jordan captured those territories? Was an absence of Jews from 1948-67 some sort of magical event with enough power to turn the territories into exclusive Arab land? Today, why are there Arabs living in Israel, while a bunch of anti-Israeli yahoos have the audacity to call a complete removal of Jews from the 1948 ceasefire lines? On what grounds are these lands, exclusively "Arab lands" in the minds of these moronic anti-Israelis? Attack Jews for 28 years, kick them out of lands, attack them again, then complain when Jews move back in? What a bunch of racist nut-jobs.

The woman has proven once and for all she is a fraud. Palestinians kill their own people and their own children and this woman blames Israel. Earth to Amira, read the charters of Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Fateh. The Palestinians want death and destruction. This is why they fire missles at Sderot. Here is the Palestinian strategy. (a) fire from behind civilians. (b) use ambulances to shuttle terrorists and weapons (c) blow up civilian buses and kids disco lines (d) kidnapping (weakest of all) (e) cry like whimps when hit back Golda Meier had it so right when she said that there would never be peace until Arabs loved their children as much as Israelis loved theirs

I would prefer my government would not give any money to them until they stop. and I think if the government wants to act like thugs, they should be treated like thugs. Haniyeh doesn't look as if he is starving. why doesn't he spend some of the millions he receives for food instead of weapons?

for the last week I felt like a lone wolf or Fox, there I was alone on the forum attempting to add the role of the Family, Clan or Hamoola into the stew. It is far too easy to view the world the way the media does. it relies on it's well worked lines of communication usually with political parties or well oiled PR elements. In the case of the middle east , the power of families in every element of society has to be discussed. Family honor leads to female victims of brutality, and the revenge killings now ravaging Gaza. But honor is not always found in only the grand causes as Amira implies, for example, As Dr. Ahamd Saba a doctor from Beit hanoun was quoted, 'The Kararneh's previous dispute, with Beit Hanoun's rival Nasri Clan, "started after a minor collision between a car and donkey cart ended up claiming eight lives."'

People have selective memory. They only hear and remember the information which suits their cause or their goal. If I lived in Israel, I would surely not want suicide/homicide bombers in my country either. Can't say I blame the situation on them (Israelis). I do however feel compassion for those in Gaza who do not participate in the ugliness of murder. You have to do what is best for your own country and not what is best for those who want to destroy it.

Mr. Hass--you are making an unproven assumption: a) that economic factors in Gaza are frameworks totally and ELECTIVELY determined by Israel b) that, if not sufficient, economic constraint is necessary for the present internecine squabbling One could state that economic constraint is neither primarily responsible for the cult of violence and that it is this cult of violence that compells Israeli responses which, in turn, negatively impact Palestinian society. Young men fascinated with machismo are a large and unproducive cohort in Gaza.

Couldn't agree with you more, Jim. Make a concrete offer and give the Palestinians a few weeks time to think and argue about it. That's all I could and would expect from Israel.

You seem to excuse the palestinians killing palestinian children, like the 2 killed last week end.

"They need to stop hating and engaging in endless blood revenge for the sake of honor, for the sake of pride. Only Palestinians can change Palestinians" Cipora, You amaze me--you can can't seem to see your own hypocrisy and hate even though it's right in front of your face. How short sighted you are! Numbers don't lie and they should tell you something. Who do you think murdered nearly 700 Palestinians last year and over 1,100 Lebanese civilians? What a sick society the Israeli Army represents--killing civilians with their 21st warfare. Do you know Israel is one of the sickest societies in the Middle East today? Grant it the Arabs are no saints and many are tyrants and corrupt as you say but I fail to see how they are as evil as Israeli leaders who occupy their neighbors land daily and kill them at will like the Fascists and sacrifice their own innocent people for land daily. Please take off your blinders and get the full range. Dutch

Sam, You are a pessimist! Can't you think of anything more positive to say? OK. US$ out of your pocket and mine. But Arab occupation? Of what? Where? Surely you are not talking about Palestine or Israel! Jim

Boris instead of posting, learn what an erev rav is. She is an egyptian that latched on to the Jewish people after the plagues. Deal with reality.

No palestinian "innocent" was INTENTIONALLY killed by IDF. Do you remember this fact some month ago when palestinian women came to a place to serve as human shields for a wanted terrorist ? They came there because they knew that IDF don't kills intentionally innocent people . This can not be said of those who blow themselve up in a Israeli cafe , restaurant , bus , etc ...And also not of this one who posed a bomb in the Parisian metro some years ago .

Yes! Dino, a bold offer that opens the way to a peaceful settlement, and a good future for Palestine! It is time that Israel laid such an offer on the table. But without sacrificing any of her rights as a people to exist and live alongside and in harmony with Palestine. All she can do is make the offer, open the door. It is then up to the Palestinians to accept it or reject it. Away with all these apologetic stands! I say make it a positive, standing offer! That is one thing that Israel can do without compromising her integrity. And the best of it is that it does not depend upon military might to become a reality. Are we approaching a turning point? An end to this stalemate? I hope so with all my heart.

I believe the occupation of large populations of Palestinians is destructive to Israel as well as the Palestinians and I understand what Amira Haas is saying but I can't believe she is blaming Israel for not going into Gaza to crack down on the infighting between Fatah and Hamas.If Israel was to go in she would be screaming to high heaven about their brutality. She should be telling her friends in Gaza and elsewhere to lay down their weapons and stop murdering each other. It takes away from her anti-occupation argument to turn around a blame Israel for everything including the Palestinians internal violence.

Avi, today is not yesterday. Make a secret polling in the Arab countries today and you will find that 70 % of people would accept Israel in the borders of more or less 67. Within the Palestinian territories it would probably be 60 %.

What'occupation ' ? ? The IDF withdrew from Gaza but only to be invited back by Hamas & co in order to put their house in order, after the daily rocket attacks, kidnapping & suicide bombings etc. Surely even that woman cannot deny this .As to the West Bank & other territories Amira Hass should know and must know that all the territories are an integral part of the Land of Israel, the only homeland of Jewish people with Yerushalayim as the eternal undivided Capital of Eretz Yisrael. This is a historical fact whether or not Amira Hass agrees with it.

Cipora, The problem isn't where is Amira's heart and soul --the problem is where is Israeli hearts and souls? This also disturbed Desmond Tutu and he wrote about it in his column after his visited the holy land a few years ago : "My heart aches. I say why are our memories so short. Have our Jewish sisters and brothers forgotten their humiliation? Have they forgotten the collective punishment, the home demolitions, in their own history so soon? Have they turned their backs on their profound and noble religious traditions? Have they forgotten that God cares deeply about the down- trodden?" (Use the URL to read the full column.) Dutch http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/comment/0,10551,706911,00.html

I have always thought that Haass was a pathological liar and hater. Now after reading this article, I am not so sure. Her argument and logic are so far from reality that they border on the psychotic. I hope that Haaretz has a helth insurance policy that will enable her to get the psychiatric help she needs.

Gaza belongs to the palestinians now.Yet Hess continues to blame Israel.Have you no shame!Haaretz is this reality?

How are you? I hope all is well. Are you enjoying the forum site? Yes, it's obvious they just love death. First, they were joined in their vow to annihilate Israel and kill Jews, now the Palestinians are killing each other. I guess as long as blood is shed, it doesn't matter whose blood it is.

Your picture of the ME reminds us all that the Israel/Palestine conflict is but one small part of an overall problem. I admire your comprehensive analysis. There may yet be a lot that Israel can do; but I think that as long as she is seen as the enemy, the best thing she can do is stand aside while the people of Palestine solve their internal problems. Everytime she - or anyone else - has intervened it has just made the problem worse and she has been demonized and criticized. But whatever the Palestinians do, Israel must guard her own existance. Salaam

The reason that so many americans, like myself, who are non-jewish and have no particular love for Israel, nonetheless support Israel is simply that palestinian people have always been anti-american, they have always supported leaders like Arafat, who killed americans and supported our Soviet enemies or like Hamas that remains part and parcel of the international islamic terrorist organization dedicated to the killing of americans like myself. To remind me, I keep a series of photos showing the palestinians out in the streets celebrating the killing of americans on 9/11. The US did not push for partition of palestine, only reluctantly recognized the state of Israel, opposed Israel and her British/French allies in 1956, and only started supporting Israel after her enemies (Nasser and his palestinian supporters) clearly aligned themselves with the Soviet enemies of the US. Nothing has happened since that would give me any reason to believe that the palestinian people are not my enemies.

Funny, but I know KUTW and I watch for her posts and I have never seen her glorify in the death of innocent Palestinian children. She might rejoice in the deaths of Palestinian or Hezbollah terrorists, but considering their agenda can you blame her? Such murderers are hardly innocent. My money and my mouth are both fine. Everytime I see news footage of people glorifying in the deaths of innocents OR CALLING FOR THE DEATHS of innocents, it's the Palestinians or some Arab or Muslim group. I remember the Palestinians and the Muslims jumping for joy after 9/11. I saw the news footage. Do you remember that--or were you out to lunch at that time? Put your money where your mouth is!

I can say with all honesty that Amira Hass is the person to be blamed for all the chaos and problems Israel is facing in Gaza, due to her provoking and silly articles we get from her

They never accepted Israel. The day it was formed we were attacked. Gaza and WB were Jordan and Egyptian territories btw.

The Gaza occupation is a myth, the Jews left nearly 2 years ago, and still people forget that. Gaza is not occupied it is locked down, and the reason that the Isreali's have locked it down is beacuse the pals cant control themselves. If the pals want open access into Isreal then they have to keep the quassams and mass murder bombers in. Yet the pals make the insane decision to do the opposite. Gaza was only locked down in 2005 once the pals showed that they had no intention of stopping terror attacks.

Amira Hass is one of the most intelligent, outstanding, credible and sound journalists in the world. Her criticism stems from the pain in noticing what is happening to her own people, to how Israelis develop their country into an apartheid creating nation. She knows that her people will not see a day of peace as long as they continue their strategy of occupying Palestinian land, their policy of closure (as of 1991 and all through Oslo) and apartheid. Being so aware of the atrocities done to her people in the past, this hurts Amira Hass more than she can express in her words. Amira Hass has a great insight. If only there were more people like her on both sides ? able to look past their prejudices and see things in the context of a human dimension and equality. That?s terribly hard. But she does it. And for that, she deserves to be heard, respected and taken seriously by all of us. To put it briefly: Amira Hass is a true hero.

of all evils. The World over is waiting for its end. It is sad that some Israelis cannot see that the longer it is prolonging the more unsympathetic the public are against them. Really the OCCUPATION is damn stupid. Amira as usual it is a pleasure to read your factual reporting.

Is it not healthy for a Democracy to have different views?Why is Amira Haas being shunned for speaking against the occupation?Palestinians are human like Israelis and have the same likes and dislikes as Israelis.Palestinian women pray for the day their children can go to school in a Palestinian state and have careers like their Israeli counterparts.Palestinian men aspire to build a peaceful nation and have a healthy economy like Israel. Amira Haas's message is clear to me.Israelis will not have peace as long as their neighbours are occupied and bullied into submission like the White South Africans did to the Black majority.Where are the architects of Apartheid?Where is Apartheid being practised?If not in Palestinian territories,where else? Amira Haas is exposing the worst excesses of the Israeli occupation.

Why don't you write about the families of the Eilat victims, eh Amira? Did you forget what happened at Camp David, when Barak offered the Palestinians everything? Or have you forgotten the Disengagement from Gaza in 2005, followed by increased Qassam rockets hitting farther into Israel than ever before? Perhaps you do have amnesia, Amira, because your reporting shows it. Your lousy reporting aids the Palestinian terrorist factions in using violence without cause, when Israel has been ready to sit & talk all along. YOU'RE ON THE SIDE OF VIOLENCE, AMIRA. AND EVERYONE KNOWS IT. you should have been in jail for the last few years, you probably have an Islamic Jihad boyfriend too.

"And all the mother hens in the world can cry their hearts out and drip all the crocodile tears they want if they expect Israel to sacrifice her safety for their benefit." Well, Jim, that's exactly the mother of the problems. I understand, that with the history of the Jewish people it is a hard one to sell, but Israel is not in any danger to be destroied by the Arabs. Israel has by far the best army in the Middle East, it has probably nukes to wipe out the whole region, and it has with the U.S. still the (military) world super-power on her side. Irans nuclear ambitions may be another question, but that's not the topic of this article. You know, that I would teach the Palestinians a totally different way to go, but unfortunately I don't have (like the Israelis) too much influence over them. Therefore the only way for Israel to break the status quo is to take fully the initiative and surprise the extremists on the Palestinian side with a bold offer.

So u have never witness any jews and Israelis rejoice to the death of innocent Pal children? Maybe u were out to lunch, then? I, for one, remember the "best whishes" of Israeli children written on bombs for delivery to Lebanon. I, for one, remember the likes of Harzion, Joseph E., Paul Harris, KUTW, bimmer, flashman and more beeing delighted at the murder of innocent Pals claiming that they also support the terror... Put your money where your mouth is!

so besmirched that a little more dirt won't make any difference

Helllo again CHGODMK, Good to know you are still among the living! Twist facts and history. Yeah. And glory in death - anyone's death. Reminds me of the banzai charges of the Samurai in WWII. Pointless except to die killing others.

Thanks for your answer Klaudia which makes a great deal of sense to me. However the blood chills at the thought of a mother celebrating the death of her child ,however 'indoctrinated' the mother. As for Mr. Murray your hatred of Israel is only exceeded by your ignorance. 'Palestine'is a Roman invention and 'Palestinian nationalism' is very much a reaction to the Jewish return to Eretz Yisrael. Your putting 'suicide- bombers on the same level with people whose only aim is to live in the historical homeland of their forefathers shows how skewed your moral sense is. I would kindly ask you to try to think of the tens of thousands of innocent victims of Palestinian terror from day one of this conflict. Perhaps they deserve a bit of your concern and empathy.

They are their worst enemies.

Never have I heard Jews or pro-Israelists on this site glorify in the deaths of innocents, including Palestinian children. However, I have seen, time and again on TV, Palestinians rejoicing in the streets when Israelis are killed. The latest such case I remember vividly was when Hezbollah was bombarding Israeli civilian centers in last summer's war, and Palestinians were partying in the streets. One thing is certain on this talkback, and that is that the Arabs and their supporters never fail to twist facts and history.

Cipora, Would be nice if you would quote me correctly next time. I said: "Paul, thank God the Palestinians don't have better PR-advisors". Means, you Paul should thank God, which again means,the right-wing in Israel should thank God that the Palestinians don't have better PR-advisors and leaders. Believe me, Swiss-Dino and others would teach them a very different way to go, and I'm afraid the result would not be to the benefit of the right in Israel, but surely to the benefit of the state of Israel in general.

It must be above all suspicion!

Bounce, If we are to play the blame game (which is what Talkback has become) then I would add to your list of the blameworthy the outside agitators who have led the naive of Palestine with their empty promises of vengeance and glorious victory with armed might - and such people as the madmanofiran and his adored Ayatollah who stand to profit from Palestinian anarchy. With this addition, I can only agree with your analysis 100 percent.

When two Palestinian children are killed by Palestinians it's an assassination, and all Israelis weep for them. When dozens of Palestinian children are killed by Israelis the children are to blame, and Israelis rejoice in their deaths while pointing out that 'it was an accident.' Utterly vile.

Well, Kim, the Palestinians would probably say, we can not accept Israel as long as there is occupation of territory that we consider to be ours. So what was first, the hen or the egg...??

The Zionists disgrace the great Jewish principles of justice, and trying to live as God has instructed them. Thou shalt LOVE thy neighbour...,etc. The Gazans live in terrible conditions brought on by occupation, poverty,and countless refugees. They have suffered through Iraeli assasinations, imprisonment and constant humiliation.

Amira, you are actually saying that the IDF should reenter Gaza to catch and chase away the murderous militants (quotation below)!!! This is unbelievable!!! Had the IDF done so you would be the first one to cry against such a move. Isnt this exactly what you are preaching against all the time? Let the Palestinians solve their own problems. Instead of the salad of armed organizations/gangs with no clear command structure they should have had one disciplined armed force long ago. That way they could at least enforce order in their streets. No one is preventing them from that. But now maybe its too late. If they are a nation - let them behave like one! quotation: "after the terror attack in Eilat, residents of Gaza were hoping that the Israel Defense Forces would invade the Strip and detain some of the armed men and chase others out of the streets. The clear signals that the IDF does not intend to do so are additional proof for them that Israel wants this internal war to continue."

They have a border with EGYPT and from there can go and be fine citizens of their Arabian brothers. Saudi Arabia just offered 1.5 million work visas.

Israel has made all the concessions toward peace that are necessary. The path to peace lies open, It is now up to the Palestinians to respond. And all the mother-hens in the world can cry their hearts out and drip all the crocodile tears they want if they expect Israel to sacrifice her safety for their benefit. It is perfectly clear that the hard-headed Islamic fundamentalists who have the Palestinian people in tow do not want peace. Do you want peace? Then start putting pressure on Islamic Jihad, et. al, to get the hell out of Palestine and leave the determination of their destiny to the Palestinian people.

What about innocent Palestinian civilians killed by the IDF ? Shall we excuse the murderers ?

If israel opened gasza completley, do you think there wont be thousands of dead inncent israelis like the ones from a few days ago?!? You would be foolish to think there wouldnt be. Israel has no choice, when arabs prove their only goal is terrorism, but to treat them as terroristsz

the palestinians have had gaza for more than a year. Time for them to shut up about an occupation and get to work and develop something that will give their people some pride and that is called work. With all the handouts to the pals from "sym-pathetic" nations, they do nothing with this money except pay for law and disorder...How about infrastructure...schools...roads...hospitals...greenhouses. Get moving and stop complaining

Israel gave the Pals Gaza. The Jews had made it bloom and have greenhouses that provided jobs for 10 thousands pals. Once the Jews left, the pals destroyed the hothouses and the synagogues. The pals want to steal all the Jews land through jihad. http://www.acpr.org.il/resources/hamascharter.html

Palestinian misery will end when the militants and pal people and surrounding arab countries accept israel and end their violence. Then the pals can elect leaders who will lead their people out of the cesspool they have lived in as a result of their violent and failed policies for 60 years. But none of them are smart enough to change direction for their people. Then they would really have to govern and be responsible. Blaming anyone other than the pal people for their misery is blindly looking at the problem

I rest my case KUTW - Israel did not give Palestine the Gaza strip, the destroyed it and put the citizens in a cage where not even a bunch of carnations can go in or out without permission. I would defy you to live in such conditions.

Amira says: "The armed security organs of Fatah and Hamas were sent to fight, to kill and to endanger the welfare of the entire public [True] in order to uphold the illusion of self-government [True] under a foreign occupier, disguised as a concerned neighbor [Not True or at least No Longer True]" Haven't you heard, Amira? Israel pulled out of Gaza. There is no longer an occupier (unless you want to think of Islamic Jihad, et.al, as agents of a foreign government, hence occupiers)! Israel is no longer accepting responsibility for what Palestinians do to each other. THAT is Palestine's problem, not Israel's. And Hamas can let their jaws hang out and polish their boots with their chin beards for all the world cares anymore.

Dino offering himself as advisor to the Palestinians. He thanks God they do not have better public relations people. As if, this depended on public relations; as if they were not supported by half the world; as if they were not getting all the right advice from Egypt, Saudi Arabia and other gulf countries. What they need, Dino, is a change in attitude. They need to stop hating and engaging in endless blood revenge for the sake of honor, for the sake of pride. Only Palestinians can change Palestinians.

Media spin and control if you get my drift.I wouldn,t blame it all on the Americans. I lived there for 27 years and it took me a while to see through the lies and bs.

of Palestinians land." Question: Having much experience as an Australian in the systematic theft of Aboriginal lands, could you possibly see your way to teach us the "proper" way to steal Palestinan lands?

Whose theft? Israel has given the pals Gaza but the pals want to rob the Jews of their land.

Amira, Not only is the foreigner occupier pretending to be a concerned neighbor but he claims to be the children of the light and those he occupies the children of the dark. Isn't that just plain sinful? I reckon almost as sinful as worshipping the Golden Calf? You may recall how Moses broke the tablets of laws when he saw this spectacle of sinfulness. Ex. 32:30. I imagine, Moses would have thrown them out of the territories today--if he were around. Dutch P.S. Amira, I believe there are two illusion occuring here: self government by the Palestinians and lawful ownership by the Israelis. Only the truth can set them free.

thank you for your comment. I understand that you accuse Amira Hass for being one sided. Obviously she reflects the perspective of the Palestinians (do you know that the zelots were the people suppressed by the Spartans in Greece who had now rights?) and doesn't take in consideration the perspective of the majority of the Israelites. For all I have read from her it seems to be largely true. But does that mean that she is not balanced, but without restraint? This would be the case if she argued for the cause of the Palestinians and considered every other perspective as unjustified and wrong. For exemple if she would denounce the impoverishment of the people from Gaza and would write at the same time that the suicidebombings in Israel are good. But she never says that and we have absolutely no reason to think that she could be indifferent towards these atrocities.

The Palestinians could not be more romantic, more imbued with with mystic and sexuality, if they had written the play themselves. They have it all: "The jokes and the rumors, the talent for self-mockery, the power of endurance and fatality, the frankness, the generosity the ability to be both emotional and tough at once." They cannot be blamed for any of the violence gripping their societies since they "are right in placing overall blame...on the occupation." Indeed, the occupation is to be blamed even for the centuries old tradition of hamula, "including such acts as blood revenge." If only the Israelis were the salt of the earth, rather than the Palestinians, maybe they would be the heroes of the play. But for that, they would need an Amira, and Amira's heart is taken and her soul belongs elsewhere.

She is now a well deserved ponching bag for every normal thinking person. LETS GIVE HER A FINAL KNOKOUT!!! Or maybe, just ignore that pathetic, ignorant so called "jornalist"

Israel does exist so there is not a skerrick of point in whinging on and on about whether or not Israel has the right to exist. That is not and never has been the f..g problem. The problem is the systematic theft of Palestinians land in spite of being told in resolution after resolution by the entire world to give it back. What part of that is so hard for the cretins to understand? Now, while you lock people into cages and destroy them systematically they will react and fight back. Just as many of the Jews did.

Amira has a very short memory! Just two days ago, a terrorist came from gaza, a place with NO OCCUPATION and killed people. But in the eyes of amira, it is israel at fault?! That is some backwards logic

Amira Hass who has lived among the Palestinians for many years is uniquely qualified to inform the outside world on what transpires when multitude of impoverished people live in an open air cage under inhumane conditions. I have personally spoken to Americans who had visited the occupied territories including Gaza for on reason or another and their stories mirror Hass'. Most if not all the responder have not and are in no position whatever to comment on the verasity of her narratives. Obviously they do not like to be constantly reminded that the occupation is the mother of all ills and a war crime to boot.

It makes me glad that the children of Israel have tanks, Apache helicopters, etc. Otherwise, the jihadists will have wiped them out a long time ago. Sure the Jews would not pray for their children to blow themselves up to pieces.

DENNIS 67 YEARS AGO NOT ONE INTELLECT OF BASIC JUDAISM SAVED ONE SOUL FROM THE NAZIS. THERE WIULL BE NO FURTHER HOLOCAUST BECAUSE ISRAEL EXISTS AND FUNCTIONS ;AND THE KILLERS ARE KEPT OUTSIDE THE GATES . YOUR LACK OF HISTORY AND EXPERIENCE SHINE THROUGH YOUR INTELLECTUAL BUNKUM

Amira Hass' standard logic: If it's bad - Jews are responsible If it's good - Arabs are responsible. Simple and self explanatory.

It is wrong to deny her her roots. She is an example of one of unfortunate Jewish features - self-hate. Her reports are so obvious and hatefull, that she is actually helping eradicate such behaviour. Think of her as Borat of Left Journalism.

DORIS SOUNDS LIKE THE PROPHETS !!! "THEIR DAYS ARE NUMBERED "" DORIS WHEN WILL THE MUSLIM EQUIVALENT OF AMIRA COME TO PASS??? WITH YOUR LACK OF SUPPOET NEVER !!!

at the school gate. The three siblings were between 3 and 9 years old. Pal gunmen shot them dead. Amira Hass made no comment on the killing.

The economic strangulation is the consequence of the hamas government, which refuses to recognize Israel.

This is what they have demonstrated whenever they were offered a state. And, after Israel left Gaza, they claim they are launching qassams because Israel withdrew.

Me, When we know Amira is soooo right --we know-- we must do everything we can to kick the Israeli outlaws out of the territories along with their pioneer settlers. Dutch P.S. Amira, trust me when I tell you their days are numbered and they are living an illusion.

Two things leap out more than several others. 1. Residents of Gaza were waiting for the IDF to come in and bring law and order to the strip. 2. The isolation of the residents of Gaza is due to the occupation. For the IDF to go in would be the height of stupidity. As soon as they entered, the two sides would stop fighting each other to strike at the Israelis and then resume their conflict. If I remember correctly, under Egyptian occupation the Strip was isolated, no attempts were made to improve the living condition of all of the inhabitants. It was Egyptian policy to keep them sealed within the refugee camps. If you look throughout the area one sees the conflict of Arab against Arab and Moslem against Moslem far away from any Israeli occupation.

?The clear signals that the IDF does not intend to do so are additional proof for them that Israel wants this internal war to continue? If that is so, the Israeli government is acting in Israel?s interest. It is better the terrorists kill one another among themselves than they murder Israelis.

Israel will be to blame for the peace that shall surely come about when the new movement "******" shall rise from its underground presence, with massive collaboration and support from the Mosad. Only when Fattah and Hamas are out of the picture and powerless can the voices of Palestinians desiring peace be heard. 2015 is the goal!!!

By their own admission, they were praying for their son to be successful in blowing himself up to pieces murdering Israelis.

psychoanalysts.she comes to us with all her fiendish fantasies.is it right for haaretz to impose on us in this unfair manner.haaretz please deal with her problems yourself.

Following Amira Hass? logic, the three victims of the terrorist bomb that exploded in a bakery are to blame for the poor terrorist blowing himself up.

Shalom Freedman : Who is more inhumane, a fanatical settler claiming he has a mandate from God to occupy the land of Palestine or a journalist who points out his fabrication and the suffering of those he has dispossessed as a result? Dutch

Israel is not in Gaza, yet the terrorists are killing one another and attacking Israel.

Perpectives such as this are the reason I come back the Haaretz site every day, despite having to wade through the din of closed minds and bigots who clamor from their keyboards endless variations of the word NO; couched in solopsistic skewed arguments that boil down to: The Jews did it... The Arabs are beyond hope... get off my land/kibbutz/cloud. Every so often the sedaka, the tikkun olam, the basic moral decency and intellectual awareness of Judaism illuminates these conversations. Cold hearts being melted one by one, whilst the mobs face off and claim their pyrrhic victories. Whether you agree with her point of view or not, the fact that she can speak so clearly of how she sees it is a breath of fresh air from the usual intractable propaganda. The ME is filled with enough jerks of all persuasions to never reach an agreement on anything. So whaddya gonna do about it? Hold your breath and turn blue? Remember, the status quo has been very good to certain parties on both sides.

Guys, A self hating Jew is nothing new. It caused the destruction of both temples. The mere fact that a Jew can question the right of the existance of Israel is in itself a phenominum and something that traits to Jews alone. No other Afghan, Iraqi,even exiled Iranian etc no matter how they dislike their own goverment has ever questioned its own existance. Yet here we have a lady who will publicly debate this on a podium. What happended to " Um Yisroel Chai" ? let me know..jf12321@hotmail.com

If Israel is so eager to take land away from the Palestinians, how do you explain the fact that: 1. Israel has left the Gaza Strip and left the entire land there in the hands of the Palestinians, and 2. Israel has offered to leave the West Bank, and the present government was voted into office based on this offer (which was rejected by the Hamas government of course, through the continuation of acts of terror)? But these questions require some reasoning, and yours it appears is non-existent as you are so emotionally involved in the call to eliminate the state of Israel. Does, Marilyn, Israel have the right to exist?

I do enjoy your postings Amira. You pose the hard questions and take the heat. I acknowledge your courage. As you suggest, Gaza may well implode. The Occupation is the major culprit, but the US and the EU are also to blame. Their actions in supporting the blockade are immoral, unjust and illegal. These states, by their blockade and starvation of the Palestinians, are breaching not only the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, but also the basis on which their own so-called democracies are based. John Locke made it clear that individual property rights are central to the foundation of a modern secular democracy, and these rights include the right to subsistence. To oppress a man by denying him the means to make a living, food and water to drink, and a roof over his head, is illegitimate. It is grounds for rebellion. It is not only the divine right of kings that must be challenged but also the Divine Right of nation states to oppress. And according to John Locke, when they oppress they become automatically illegitimate, no longer fit to govern.

of course israel is responsible for palestinians killing each other, just as it is responsible for iraq, the balck plague and toenail fungus. can the extreme left ever see things for what they are? the palestinians are fighting for power, pure and simple.

Let's mot blame Haaretz for Amira Haas, they sometimes print articles from those on the far right that are as hopeless as Amira Haas.

since their school days, sit together in the evening and openly discuss the seriousness of the situation." Question: Does this mean that were it not for the "Zionist entity" holding back on the marshmallows and hot dogs, both groups would be open to a kumzitz replete with kumbayah and campfire?

The true ignorance Amira is among those on this forum who believe the Israeli propaganda. I have read about 12 books in recent times written by Jews from the archives and by Jimmy Carter and it is clear that not once has Israel ever bothered to try and broker any kind of peace while there is a skerrick of land left to steal and a Palestinian left to torment. It is outrageous that the sight of men with guns has reactions as deranged as shoot them all when the bloody IDF thugs drive around in tanks and bulldozers, fly their fighter jets over the Gaza and slaughter people at will. Israel murdered a little Israeli ID card holder last week and still the ignorant cretins who write their spite and bile to this forum blamed the little girl. No wonder Israel is out of favour. It is not just the Palestinians who are ignorant of reality.

Now Israel is to blame for NOT intervening?!

I sent in an almost identical response early on, as I couldn't believe that incredulous statement by Amira. It wasn't posted because I added that Haaretz only posts this stupid bainwashed so-called journalist because it enjoys the noteriety.

Amira - Exactly how many years ago were they in their country and what was the name of that country??

Here we have a Turk that you can interrogate about his country's attempted genocide of its Armenian population, but you are conveniently missing from this Talkback. Is the only time you care about the Turkish genocide of the Armenian people is when you can blame Israel and the Jews?

Gazan Arabs have only their corruption and violence to blame for their situation. Sinse they have expressed their moral bankrupcy in electing an openly terrorist "government", their steadily deteriorating circumstances have brought them to this low point despite being the highest internationally subsidized people on earth. This article's glamorized fantacies about their mafia society will do the Gazan Arabs no favours. These are the exact illusions for which people, Jew and Arab alike, are now being killed. Amira Hass and her fellow travellers are the Jessie-James propagandists who endeavour to keep the killers in business. Shame on you, Amira!

Hass is not Jewish at all. Hass is the decendant of the Egyptians who fled Egypt with Moses after the plagues. Hass is only a "poseur". Sadly this poseur belongs to the Jewish people until Moshiach. When Moshiach comes, the Erev Rov will cease to exist. Their blind hatred to Jews will be no more. A word with out blind Hate such as Hass will be beautiful. Sadly you can feel bad about the Palestinian plight. However, you must admit, the Palestinians are their own worse enemy. They just have to kill, even when it is hard for them to kill Jews, they kill themselves. Sickos like Hass blame us for that.

No people will take to occupation and oppression with a happy face. When Jews were disinfranchised and rounded up into ghettos, deprived of the ability to provide for life and liberty, they threw rocks at their tormentors, and when they could get their hands on a little petrol they produced homemade bombs to throw at German tanks. If a foreign government rolled tanks down the streets of NY, blasting my city to smithereens, killing my family and friends, I'd be fighting back with whatever I could muster. Israel has become an embarrassment to many American Jews. I am ashamed of her behavior, her lack of decency, her total depravement. For a so called moral people we are disgusting the world with our immoral behavior. God save Israel from herself.

Shalom-Salaam is a bunch of Jew-haters. They oppose Israel's existence. Beware!

It very well could have been Rwanda. How do you feel about Turkey's attempted genocide of its Armenian population in the early 20th century?

Because Everyone Knows Your A Self Hating Jew (or are you something else)

You know, maybe the real name of this warped 'journalist' is 'Hiss' and not 'Hass'? She never finds any fault with her precious Gazans, only with Israel. Yet she lives and enjoys the benefits of this country. Emira Hiss/Hass - why don't you go and live in Gaza, among people who are obviously much more to your taste. Stop being a traitor to your own people!

...you miss the fact that The State of Palestine exist...and it is a nightmare. That State was officially founded in the summer of 2005, when Israel removed its military forces and civilian population get the first wholly independent Palestine state in their history...

U must be kidding if u think u are being cute or twee or sharp or smart. It is clear even to u dana that in the hair-trigger nerves that are the ME, the enemy of my enemny becomes my friend. Even u can work that out. And yes,Klaudia is quite right in condemning Hass for falling silent on the murderous excesses of the gazans against women and children over the past few days. How can u take seriously the word of someone so biased? But then what might u know of our part of the world sitting as u do in new york? And, out of curiosity, the "we" u use: is that like in a royal "we"? Or is it "We" as in your family and you? Or are you simply speaking for the state of new york when u say "we"? Get a life.