Europe remains unwilling to walk in Israel's shoes
The arrest order issued against Livni in Britain is a symptom of a deep and long-running problem.
By Shimon Stein Tags: EU Israel news Tzipi LivniThe arrest order issued in Britain against Kadima chairwoman Tzipi Livni is nothing but one of many symptoms of a deep and long-running problem that is unlikely to be solved as long as the Israeli-Palestinian conflict continues.
The apology by British Prime Minister Gordon Brown (whose own government would be well advised to deal with the issue, of which it has long been aware) and his government's plan to tackle the problem through legislation, will not solve our troubles with the European Union.
The root of the problems lies in the fundamental disagreements between Israel and the EU regarding the manner in which the Israeli-Palestinian conflict should be resolved and our conduct vis-a-vis the Palestinians. The conclusions of the EU council of foreign ministers on the peace process, adopted last month in Brussels, and the harsh criticism of Israel voiced by the EU's new High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, Catherine Ashton, are only the most recent examples of the deep gap that has existed for years between us and Europe.
The disagreements do not stem mainly from economic considerations and interests, although their role in shaping the positions of certain EU members should not be discounted. The reasons are deeper and are linked to the lesson taken by European states from the profound trauma of World War II. The preference for multilateral frameworks, the adherence to the principles of international law, the rejection of the use of force to change political realities, the sanctification of human rights as an absolute value (that is sometimes applied in a manner that leaves behind a sense of double standards) and empathy toward those who are perceived as being weak - all these are part of the principles by which the EU states conduct themselves.
The conduct of Israel, as a state that calls itself democratic, is not perceived by the EU countries as conforming to those principles. European politicians (if we permit ourselves to speak in generalities), not to mention the public, are generally unwilling to walk in the shoes of Israel, which operates as a democracy under threat, and to demonstrate understanding for the motivations behind its conduct. And any small understanding is not reflected in the media.
The threat of terror, which has become an inseparable part of Israel's quotidian reality, and Israel's responses - which are covered obsessively - bumps up against a European reality that with the exception of a few instance has not experienced the horrors of terror.
It follows from this that Israel's responses to terror, which result in unintended harm to civilians, are not only met by a lack of understanding but represent a focus of harsh criticism.
One of the by-products of this criticism is the beginning of an open discussion among some European elites of the nature of Israel's democracy as well as the extent of its legitimacy as a Jewish state, which is of great concern.
For years the EU has expressed its dissatisfaction with Israel's political and military conduct with a policy of reward and punishment. When there are unilateral withdrawals and an active peace process, Israel receives a prize; the absence of a peace process and disproportionate military actions lead to punishments.
This pattern, which changes in accordance with the existence of the peace process or lack thereof, is based on a fundamental and mutual lack of trust.
After observing the situation for many years it is hard to escape the conclusion that Israel and the Europeans are conducting not a dialogue, but rather two monologues. A solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict could lay the foundations for a new stage in our relations with Europe. Until that happens we must get used to reality, the expressions of which we have been witness to in recent weeks.
The writer is a former Israeli ambassador to Germany.
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Good question with a simple answer...the "palestinians" would never make claims against other arab governments because the arab governments would simply squash out and kill disidents as the continually show in Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Iraq, etc. It's just that sad and that simple. The double standard illustrated here, while disgusting, has been going on against the jews for centuries.
This "lady" regularly and consistently bashes Israel with a one-sided, Jew-hating perspective. I've never heard her even attempt to deny this. If the terror would end - which it wont' because the Arabs hate Isreal and Jews more than they care about their own lives and quality of life - the miliatary response would end to. The only reason Nat doesn't consider this is she viserally hate Israel and Jews...these are the facts, and they are indesputeable.
The reason for hostility towards the state of Israel is the same reason there is a problem with terrorism - the military occupation which began in 1967 and occurred long before any suicide bombings. The author seems to allude to the unilateral disengagement from Gaza as Israel's attempt at peace - he has ignored the unrelenting theft of Palestinian land in the West Bank and the de facto occupation of Gaza which continues to this day in the form of Israel controlling coastline and all Israeli borders.
Presumably you wish us to believe that Israel can do whatever it wishes in violation of international laws, UN resolutions and articles of the 4th Geneva Convention, and if the Europeans, or anybody else for that matter, criticize those actions it is because of anti-semitism demagoguery and appeasement of Arabs, and for business reasons. And, that makes Europeans corrupted and despicable. That might be the most cynical, simplistic and illogical apologia for Israelis illegal activities I have witnessed. Do you really believe there is a continent of people without values, morals or any sense of human decency? The reason the EU is hostile to Israel is because Israel does not share those same humanistic values. Subjecting another population to 42 years of harsh humiliating occupation, attempting to starve 1.5million people in Gaza to death, and being in violation of international laws that can be considered war crimes, are not values others share with Israelis.
Presumably you wish us to believe that Israel can do whatever it wishes in violation of international laws, UN resolutions and articles of the 4th Geneva Convention, and if the Europeans, or anybody else for that matter, criticizes those actions it is because of anti-semitism demagoguery and appeasement of Arabs, and for business reasons. And, that makes Europeans corrupted and despicable. That might be the most cynical, simplistic and illogical apologia for Israelis illegal activities I have witnessed. Do you really believe there is a continent of people without values, morals or any sense of human decency? The reason the EU is hostile to Israel is because Israel does not share those same humanistic values. Subjecting another population to 42 years of harsh humiliating occupation, attempting to starve 1.5million people in Gaza to death, and being in violation of international laws that can be considered war crimes, are not values others share with Israelis.
... did not made any claim against Egypt & Jordan when these two countries occupied Gaza & the West Bank for almost 20 years ?
Europe sold out to the Arabs a long time ago: Oriana Falacci was very eloquent and incisive on those points and she was a former ardent supporter of the Palestinians who turned against them completely. In 2020 there will be 100 million muslims in Europe. By 2050 there will a muslim majority in Europe and it will cease to exist culturally as it once was. Does anyone need a picture drawn as to why the Europeans behave as they do?
Reading the talk-back columns of Haaretz one often is left with the impression that because of the WW2 regrettable misstreatment of the European Jews by the Nazis, the survivers and their descendents now appear to feel that it is OK to misstreat the hapless Palestinians, who did not cause the Jewish suffering during WW2.
One must ask himself why palestinians allowed the US to be a party in finding solution to the Israel-Palestinians conflict ? Aren't they far more partisan towards Israel than the EU is towards Palestine?
You said: `The Europeans` are becoming marginalised between a recovering US and a resurgent China, have historically engaged in the most hideous anti-Semitism, and yet continue acting as if they are still world powers, and may judge and dictate to Israel out of some newly-discovered sense of ethics. That suggests a simple solution. Maybe if you ignore them they'll go away. Since europe is insignificant, just pay no attention at all to them. Not like trade with europe is important to Israel, or european tourism, etc. So what do you care what they think? They don't matter.
Stein has done something unusual for a Isareli diplomat to actually try and understand the rationales of EU-politics and not only push the weining button that "everybody hates us"... Let's hope that he can learn his collegues at the MoFa something.
Well said!
Jews were not natives of Europe. You were interlopers, outsiders, people who moved into areas which had been communities of fairly close extended families for centuries. You brought Jewish culture, religion, values, and such, which was NOT part of the native culture. Of course you would have problems. With the frictions caused between people who had been in control of an area for generations, to have people who were not native come in, begin to prosper, begin buying land and structures which had been with a single family for ten generations, of course you are going to experience dislike. And when both sides push and push, the side with the smaller numbers is going to pay dearly. It's not right, but that is the reality. Look how Israel treats it's non-Jewish population. How would you expect the native European populations to treat those whom they considered to be outsiders?
Sorry to burst your victim bubble Laila, but it takes two to tango. Having never been a part of the historical situations between Europeans and Jews, It has been very easy for me to be objective, and if you can handle a bit of truth, keep reading. There is no denying the hatreds of the past and the results of such. But one is simply a symptom of the other- a destructive symbiosis, if you will. Many seem to feel there is this irrational hatred for Jews, simply because of being Jewish. Not true. European history is full of situations where the native populations had been genuinely swindled by a non-native Jewish minority, with the resulting action of taking retribution from ALL Jews in the area. Take ownership of your own hand in those events, and things will start to get much better, rather quickly. The Europeans have taken their responsibility seriously, it's your turn.
Arresting these criminals could very well save Israel. There are many who justly feel GW Bush should also stand trial for war crimes. Those leaders positively involved with cast lead should be held as accountable as any other scum bag criminals.
How many centuries did it take for European nations to form, develop, and take their present day stable borders? How many thousands of border skirmishes, wars, and world wars did it take for Europe to become what it is today? And how many years has Israel been a modern nation? 60? Israel is still only a baby, and it's natural that there will be some border conflicts and adjustments before it matures. What's hard to understand is Europeans' lack of comprehension for Israel's birthing pains and the threats it faces.
European people have had more than 'a few instances' of terror. You seem to have forgotten the primary battlefields of both WW1 and WW2 were Europe. The civilian populations all over Europe were terrorized for years, and they know full well what Israel is doing to the Palestinian people. It is utterly amazing to see how Israelis attempt to equate and justify atrocities to others, by completely flipping the reality of the situation, to yet again 'show the world' how you are the victims. Even when you are the blatantly obvious oppressors. You did hit the nail on the head, in regards to the issues Israel faces today are the direct results of how brutally you have treated the entire Palestinian population, your failure to end the settlements, and the callous disregard for your friends, who are TRYING to help you.
What nonsense. Israel's "terror threat" is a direct result of it's policy to push and kill off another population. Israel has no national borders, it continuously expands, unlike EU nations. It removes ethnic Arabs from their homes, and replaces those Arabs with Jews: there isn't a single EU nation currently engaging in such blatant ethnic cleansing. Your nation has bulldozed tens of thousands of Arab homes within the last 40 years, how many homes have Europeans bulldozed? The terrorism you face is of your own making; your continued policies of ethnic cleansing, economic strangulation, kidnapping, and "targeted" assassinations has brought you an endless war. Get some real borders, ones that allow the Palestinians the right to movement, commerce, and nationhood, get a constitution, stop shooting protesters, and kidnapping Arab youth, and THEN we'll talk about the "double standards".
It is obvious that there is no love lost with Europe & the Jews ! Old Europe have no happy history with their own Jews ! Present day Europe i,e the EU is no different. One must ask himself why Israel allowed Europe to be a party in finding solution to the Israel-Palestinians conflict ? Time for Israel to scale down the number of the mediators who are queuing to help themselves ! They are so many of them that made Israel voice hardly to be heard !
Shalom/Salam! I always love to Fall in Love and Marry a Israeli-Jewish Girl and settle down in life !! ...is any one listening to?? You guys,Just think - How Wicked We are With Having Religions,What It would have had been Without Having Religions ??!!?? Hatred Create More Hates, Love Levels Everything!
Europe has been settled by a huge number of Muslims who're now pressuring their governments (and threatening) to be more anti-Israel. Violent marches in the streets by Muslims in European countries makes them feel vulnerable to the hordes and thus they take it out on Israel hoping to buy safety from the 5th columnist Muslims. Not to mention the left wing have a huge part to play.
I always love to Fall in Love and Marry a Israeli-Jewish Girl and settle down in life !! ...is any one listening to?? You guys,Just think - How Wicked We are With Having Religions,What It would have had been Without Having Religions ??!!?? Hatred Create More Hates, Love Levels Everything!
#75 Sylvie is exactly right.
Any actions related to "mistrust" of Israel are just shows of bending over to appease the real criminals - who don't need any war to slaughter innocents.
Europe, led by its citizenry, no longer buys into the 'self-defense' argument being constantly pushed by Israeli politicians. They only have to look at the expanding settlements, the constant theft of Palestinians' land, the Jew-only roads and all the other manifestations of colonialism and ethnic cleansing. The hasbara machine is losing its ability to cover over these 'facts on the ground'. We have only ourselves to blame if others object to the disparity between our claims to be a democratic country and our actual behaviour.
Israel has always been an advocate for the idea of justice on an international level and quite rightly so. In this case it is the Israeli government that should face justice and as a Brit I am uncomfortable with people like Lipni being defended by our politicans. Having said that if an Israeli group were to issue a warrant for Tony Blair, Geof Hoon and their violent friends for crimes against Afghans and Iraqis I would support that also.
Your probably right, but the Occupation doesn't help. Neither does Israeli intransigence at preventing a meaningful peace with the Palestinian people ending a conflict responsible for the radicalisation of most of the Moslem Suicide bombers/flyers who have attacked the West in recent times. People don't like being able to protect their families, and when they can't they like someone to blame. Israel fulfils that role at the moment. It was America in the 1970's/1980's. It will be someone else soon don't worry about it.
first of all, the "arab world`s raging hatred and racism against jews". consider what you've said about zionist ideology being flawed, and ask yourself what prompted the arab attacks on israel. and also, much of the arab/muslim world's animosity towards israel is fueled by israeli policies towards the palestinians which have been ongoing for 60 years and showing no signs of being eased. i'm not going to say that there'd be NO animosity towards israel were those policies to end; but the fact IS that israel is largely responsible for the majority of that animosity. as for the palestinians themselves, the conflict is about land; NOT religion. israel is the one who's selling the religious angle as part of it's claim of being the "victim"... which is also reflected by your assertions. and one BIG problem is that all parties tend to stereotype the others based on actions and the rhetoric of the radicals and extremists; because it's THEIR views that are reported by the media, for the simple fact that discord, conflict, and the extraordinary make the news...not complacency, harmony, or the ordinary. unfortunately, this tendency leads to flawed judgements by people who rely on entirely on the media for their knowledge of the world. example: since after 9/11 we saw film clips of muslims celebrating, and ever since all we've heard about is the muslim threat, muslim this, and islam that...yet a gallup poll, representing 1.3 billion muslims worldwide, found that 97% condemned the attacks. 7% felt they were justified; but 0% thought so for religious reasons. http://www.america.gov/st/democracyhr-english/2009/May/20090505143038SBlebahC0.2072369.html
I think the problem is probably quite simple. Europe has too many Chamberlain's and not enough Churchill's.
We had a long history of attitude from the Europeans way before there was ever a "peace" process to blame it on.
Mr. Stein, I am shocked and appalled at your suggestion that the EU has not experienced the horrors of terror. Are you completely ignorant of the horrors unleashed upon Britain and Northern Ireland by the Irish Republican Army? The Omagh Bombing? The 2004 Madrid train bombings? The 2005 London Tube bombings? Hello?!? Or perhaps you remain willingly ignorant of these events, and unwilling to admit that terrorism is everyone's problem, not just Israel's. You are not special or unique in this regard.
Morocco doesn't claim to be a democracy based on common western values.
These continuous tirades about Europe causing the holocaust and Israe;'s right to defense avoids the point of Stein's op-ed: if Israel wants Eurpoean support, it must act less unilaterally. Perhaps it is because of Europe's experience with devastating wars and the failure of the versailles treaty that demonstrated the need to create stronger, multi-national frameworks for cooperation.I like how some did identify that Europe has economic interests in the ME, since that probably plays a factor. I do not think that anti-semetism is the force behind Europe's stance. I think the driving point is that both sides see the same issue, but their experiences lead them to see the solution through different lenses, and which one is right? Anyone who tries to state such clearly would be foolish.
No 35: Britain never forgave the Jews for throwing them out of Palestine in 1948 and did not recognise Israel, They abstained at the UN.
THe wholesale bombing of Germany by Britain is OK, killing 6 times more civikians than Germany did to BRitain. Or the bombing of Serbia. Hypocrites.
Europe: 2,000 years of persecuting, murdering, robbing and expelling Jews. How can one trust them?
Walking in Israel's shoes? Come on. More Europeans have died at the hands of terrorists, in the recent past, than Israelis. Maybe Europeans feel that in being complicit with regard to the current Israeli policy towards Palestinians they are inviting terrorism. If the US is smart they'll recognize the same. It's rather arrogant for Israeli's to think that they can kill thousands of Palestinians with impunity. As the world becomes less dependent on Middle Eastern oil, Israel will find itself alone with it's struggles.
If you want to be honest, everybody is dependent on ME oil. Only countries with their own oil supply can get along very long without it; other countries' economies would crash.
I found the article like I find much of Israeli politics - an odd combination of striking insight and staggering blind spots. He's right, in Europe the dominant consensus upon what is acceptable was shaped by WW2. However, I don't think that's making very clear what it was about WW2 that made this consensus. The Holocaust is possibly the most signifigant event in modern history. Possibly history full stop. In WW2, a dictator convinced a terrified people that their enemies were internal terrorists, and they had to be supressed to ensure the strength of the state. He convinced a terrified people that a race was inclined to being subversive. He convinced a terrified people that their borders need not to be defined. Take a long look at what you read in the papers, calling for security and strength. Take a look at the history books. It's terrifying that it comes to this.
"... Israel's responses to terror, which result in unintended harm to civilians ..." The Goldstone report makes it abundantly obvious that Mr. Shimon Stein is a liar.
'The Europeans have become a pretty rational people over the past decades, and it therefore is rather difficult for them to understand Israels totally irrational behaviour...' A. 'The Europeans' are not 'a people'. They are peoples - note the plural - who co-habit a small and rather insignificant peninsula of western Asia. B. 'The Europeans' have not been rational, either of late, nor in the more distant past. You have conveniently forgotten the late genocide in Bosnia, the dictatorship of Belarus, the mutual bombings and murdering of IRA and Ulstermen, the terrorism of Basque separatists ... all in recent decades. C. 'The Europeans' are becoming marginalised between a recovering US and a resurgent China, have historically engaged in the most hideous anti-Semitism, and yet continue acting as if they are still world powers, and may judge and dictate to Israel out of some newly-discovered sense of ethics. If *that* isn't irrational, I don't know what is! MV
People should realise that beneath the cvilised exterior lurks the millenial jew killer. They appeared to be civilised before the holocaust too. Hypocritical double standards are the hallmark of the civilised anti semite.
Terrorism? Europe? they've never see that... IRA, ETA, those oragnizations are second and third class to terroristd from th IDF!
Being inundated with muslim immigration Europe is losing control of their borders, language and their legislative system. They are hardly in position of dictating their policies to Israel as enemy from within is in. Currently they are very afraid to to make any movies or satire with regard to islam as they becoming a guests in their own country. Pretty soon Israel,China, Japan will be the safest countires on earth. Mark my word. Europe is losing their footing.
Europe is not one country and not one people. It's unfair to talk about European antisemitism as uniform. Let us remember: it was Britain that provided the Balfour Declaration; it was Denemark and Sweden who protected the Jews in their countries during the Holocaust period; and even the "Satan" of the past, Germany, is supplying Israel with material, financial and political support. Spain of today is not the Spain of Inquisition and Dutch people did save thousands of Jewish lives. The present political position towards Israel has little to do with anti-semitism, although I would not deny that there are still many anti-semites in Europe. Europe is not appeasing its Muslims, but is afraid of terrorism as Israel is. Europeans want peace in the Middle East for its own safety and some consider Israelis as sabotaging it. Israel must reach out to Europe - and other countries - and explain its need for sometime harsh responses to terrorism. Emphasize that Israel wants peace too.
With the Muslim population increasing in Europe things are going to get worse,
Thoughtful post overall, but why: "I`ll be the first to admit that Zionism is a flawed ideology..." What about it is flawed? Are Jews the only group in the world forbidden to have a national homeland? Where is it written that all of the land between Jordan River and the sea belongs to Muslim Arabs? Zionism was and still is willing to accept compromises. Have the anti-Zionists ever shown the same willingness?
eric: "like maybe you could explain to everyone exactly where israel`s occupation, settlements, and the associated oppression, injustices, and human rights violations against the palestinians, fit into the general scheme of human morality and conscience." That's a valid question. What I'd like, is to have that question reversed and posed to you: Where does the Arab world's raging hatred and racism against Jews, and their subsequent attempts over the years to try and destroy the State of Israel, and potentially commit genocide, fit into the general scheme of human morality and conscience? I'll be the first to admit that Zionism is a flawed ideology, and that the policies of the Israeli government vis a vis the Palestinians are flawed, but doesn't context matter if one is to understand a situation from both sides, and arrive at a solution? As Mark Twain one said, and I paraphrase: "the mark of true intelligence is the ability to see both sides of an argument and still function."
We all need the ability to listen and empathize with people in our daily lives as well as in international politics. I found this article interesting because in my daily life I find that many people are more interested in doing the talking (monologues) rather than listening (dialogues). Listening is the ability to understand and empathize (walk in someone's shoes).
Iran has strong trade ties with Germany and Switzerland,business is business and talk of boycott is mostly talk. Then there is the ever present threat of civil unrest and riots,best to toe the line and not have nights of rioting car burning street killing etc..
Europe has been, is and always will be anti semitic to use generalities. Therefor as Jews and I as a Dutch Jew do not care about what Europe tells us about human rights. Moreover, if they are serious about human rights and democracy in the M-E then judge the Arabs and Jews alike. Demand full rights for every body and true democratic elections in every country from Marocco to Iraq and slam sanctions on those countries who do not allow for fair and open elections. Demand respect for women rights and again slam sanctions on countries who deny the rights for women, gays, jews, christians and any body else who is a minority in the M-E. If they do not do that we as Jews in Israel can and will always claim the Europeans are biased and anti semitic. Simple but true treat us Jews equal to the Arabs and vice versa.
"It is also full of societies that have experienced the full devastation of war on their home soil." Michael/UC Sir, Nicely put. How about the truth - immoral savage societies that started TWO World Wars and killed each other - about 100 millions of humans. Not to mention other crimes against humanity...
You think European morality is low. OK, well you're German, mate, so you would think that. Two world wars and one holovaust. It's not a great record frankly. However, part of Germany's problem, of course, is that by European standards it was a young, aggressive nation, only united in the mid-19th century. It felt it had a lot to prove and the result was a string of wars and failed attempts to build empires in Europe and abroad, climaxing in terms of immorality with the Holocaust. But the good news is that Germany, we hope has learnt its lesson and calmed down a bit. The US and Israel will eventually as well.
indeed a history of antisemitic acts doesnt excuse today's antisemitic acts!
from the Arabs and the substantial minority who do not hestitate to get violent and riot when it suits them.
We will not be a democracy until we fire our thought police. If one man's festival has caused another man's misery, best to accept that instead of banning the very mention of such a possibility. Instead we are legislating for the banishment of a very real memory of banishment for 20% of our population and looking to introduce oaths of loyalty. When we've properly understood that our security depends on the peace-loving people of this region and that we can't legislate against memory, we'll have taken the first step towards getting the world to walk in Israel's shoes.
may i remind you that it were europeans (a big part of them brits) who conquered america, australia and colonized big parts of the african and asian world. so, dont look down on "self-confident" us and dont claim that europeans are "a bit more morally aware" than them. because they are not. if they were they would not make business with cruel countries (e. g. in the muslim world) which violate human rights on a daily basis. my country, for example, is one of the biggest business partners of iran - despite of the cruel iranian regime. so, leave me alone with morality. it's not morality but it's money which drives the european countries (including your country).
for the EU to blatantly take the side of Israel. Look at its attitude towards the US who has a clear bias towards Israel, even it doesn't escape criticism if it objects to some israeli policies. Unfortunately the Saudi King was right- spoiled child Israel wants to do what it wants when it wants and starts to winge anytime someone says something remotely critical. Good luck but Israel should be careful about how far it wades in these waters, at the moment, the tide is against it.
It is certainly convenient for zionists to keep on harping on the past, but the fact remains that a history of anti-semitism does not excuse acts of the present.
The idea that there is widespread anti-semetism in Europe is incorrect in my experience. Most people throughout the continent do not have enough contact with anyone that they know is Jewish to develop any feelings about them as a group. To characterize negative feelings toward Israel as anti-semetism would be the same as saying that people are anti-asian because they deplore China's oppression of Tibetan or Uighur minorities.
do you want to say by your post at 11:07 that europeans understand better the palestinian terror behaviour? do you think that this terror behaviour is more rational?
I cant speak for Europe but from a British perspective the UK historically has been very supportive of Israel. Israel was seen as the under-dog and recieved overwhelming public sympathy. Over the last ten years however the sentiment has reversed. Israel is perceived to have become a bully whilst the Palestinians have been seen to become reasonable. Actions like the wholesale bombing of Lebanon and Gaza have fed it. I think we here were glad to see Israel get a bloody nose in Lebannon the last time though we have no affinity with Hezbollah. There is a lot of ignorance here about the situation. And perhaps that is not a bad thing from Israel's perspective. If people knew the setup they would probably be more pro-palestinian. The majority of people I think dont care. Those that do are predominantly pro-peace anti settler. I agree that anti-semitism is not a large factor here. The racists here are anti-muslim, anti-paki. We dont have an AIPAC. and our Jews are split along the same line.
"Most Europeans I know don`t have enough contact with Jews to have any anti-semetism". Just try thinking about that statement, Clarity.
The author has a good understanding of what shapes European foreign policy, but is wrong about how this impacts its relations with Israel. Europeans by and large feel that Israel has created its own problems by its oppression of Arabs at home and in the occupied territories. Oppression causes hate, no matter how hard you try to soften it. Israel's "unintended harm" includes the farmers uprooted to build a wall well into occupied land, and high civilian casualties. Most Europeans I know don't have enough contact with Jews to have any anti-semetism. But the reports they see in the news makes it look like Israel pursues a ruthless policy of oppression through collective punishment.
Sir, It was so bad for the last 2K years - it can be only better. We shall overcome...
The problem with Europe didn't start with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, it started much much earlier with blaming the Jews with Jesus' death by the Catholic Church.
ITs not just Europe. Its the whole world - all except Israel and the US. For 40 years, theere have been UN votes that are 120 to 2. People scoff at the idea about Jewish power in the US, but with 40 congresspeople Jewish, and the heads of most fortune 500 companies and media, its clear that the Israeli view is presented as the American view. But this charade can only go on so long. There will be justice to pay for 60 years of occupation.
The MAIN gap is the 'oil gap, then there is the 'economic gap (exports)and than there is the NOTORIOUS 'anti Jew gap. Give the Europeans to 'walk in Israels shoes (which will not take too long with the 5th colonne inside their borders), and they will 'change their tune (out of necessity, not love).
i think that behind this european behaviour towards israel there's also still this european wish to govern and to control other nations, so to say the colonist mentality of the past, of which europe could not get rid, up to now.
I bet Stein's American originally, because he's got that US mentaility that affects too much Israeli thinking. This is based on two peculiarities of US history. 1) The US is a succesful settler society where European immigrants wiped out an indigenous society and the world has forgiven and forgotten 2) The US is used to dealing out death and destruction abroad but completely unused to having the same imposed on its own domestic territory. Europe, by contrast, is full of largely indigenous societies, many of whom have recently given up colonial empires. It is also full of societies that have experienced the full devastation of war on their home soil. I don't claim any moral superiority for Europe. We're a bunch of very old countries with some shining moments of good, but a lot of grubby, dirty moments of moral shame. But precisely because of our long dirty histories we are slowly becoming a bit more morally aware than new, self-confident nations like the US and Israe
by repeating that which apparently, really IS..."all you`ve got". actually you know, the "anti-semitic" thing IS wearing pretty thin with most people who have eyes and a mind. so why not try something new in your attempts to discount criticism of israli policies? like maybe you could explain to everyone exactly where israel's occupation, settlements, and the associated oppression, injustices, and human rights violations against the palestinians, fit into the general scheme of human morality and conscience. much more effective, than using that tired old label that's been so abused by zionists that it doesn't even raise an eyebrow anymore(unless maybe from the rolling of eyes); don't you think?
Gulf states like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and the UAE are the core money sources for political Islam. These same countries are significant sources of European capital and trade. Abu Dhabi holds, for example, the largest block of Mercedes-Benz AG shares. The second largest shareholder is Kuwait. Including the large number of shadow holdings one quickly sees that the European economy is highly addicted to Arab money. In an odd way too the European economy is also hostage to increased conflict in the ME as, through uncertainly, it drives up the price of oil and gas and provides a motor for investments and a redistribution of wealth from bottom to top. Its no coincidence that Germany's ex-chancellor Schroeder works for Gazprom and as a lobbyist for Iran. Throw in millions of heavily exploited Muslims and Mosques run by Saudi Wahhabi puppeteers and its clear what position Europe needs to take for its own survival. Ethnic conflict aside they are united in their resentment of Jews.
An example of Europe 'dealing' with terrorism: Two weeks after the July 07 bombings in London, an innocent man - Jean Charles de Mendez - was shot in the head 7 times by the Metropolitan police, simply because they feared he was a terrorist. Of course he wasn't, and no officers were held accountable for his killing. This extreme reaction came at a time of understandable fear and heightened security; but Israel is existentially threatened every day.
what amuses me is that israel has created the problem it's in,yet those zionists will say otherwise, and it's only going to get worse.
If the Europeans want to preach to Israel about the settlements, then the Europeans should first get rid of their own colonies and dependent territories.Fair is fair.It is simply sad to watch Europe go under the muslim boot: the percentage of muslims in Europe is rising constantly and will soon drown whatever is left of the European cultures. Europe is finished. The Caliphate of Eurabia is being born.How can the Europeans be taken seriously, when they show such double standards?
....over the past decades, and it therefore is rather difficult for them to understand Israels totally irrational behaviour, when it comes to things like settlements and the status of Jerusalem. Unfortunately common sense has pretty much gotten lost in Israel (and parts of the Jewish Diaspora) after 60 + years of armed conflict with the Arab world..... ....as soon as you will get that back, relations with Europe will improve dramatically.
i dont want anybody to walk in my shoes. i want respect and understanding as i try to do for my fellowmen. nobody is perfect and israel has commited mistakes,but we have to respect their right to defend their country and their people.arabs are making their people targets by using terror as their weapon.
"Before you dismiss the European point of view, it would be good to recall that Britain, France and Spain have first hand (and recent) experience with terrorism, how to deal with it, and how not to deal with it." None of them have been surrounded by enemies launching wave upon wave of terror attack. None of them frisk people upon entering movie theaters. None of them search every single woman who enters a supermarket carrying a handbag. One thing Europe DID do, is perpetrate the Holocaust upon Jews in addition to any other horrific treatments over the last 2000 years. Europe certainly did a lot to put those shoes onto Israel. Let us know when rockets rain down on your head for 7 years -- without you taking action.
Well written. It points out some realities that are often ignored, but sidesteps the arguments that Israel is not able to address honestly. Obviously this article is written by someone a cut above the typical 'journalist'.
Well said.
"There are a bunch of nutcases here screaming anti-semitism at the first chance they get. Is that all you`ve got, seriously? " How easily the simple things in life evade you. You think the continent (which wiped out 90% of its Jewish population) is finally terminated over 1500 years of anti-Semitism? What has Europe really learned since the Holocaust? Before you flap your gums with some poorly-weighed, pseudo-witty drivel, consider the disproportionate obsession with Israel, especially in Europe. But, you're too far gone to recognize the relevance of that parameter as well.
While you read this British soldiers are flying 1/2 way around the world to kill innocent Afghan civilians because of some imagined threat. Why don't the British start their 'justice' at home.
And why on earth should Europeans walk in your shoes? Go to big daddy Obama!
europe has never walked in the shoes of jews. they learned nothing from ww2. they are hypocrites who care only for their own interests and try to be nice to those who provide them with fuel or open their markets for them.lets face it. israel is too small for the european market. europe would do a big service to the people of the region , to be more objective to the arab israel conflict.
There are a bunch of nutcases here screaming anti-semitism at the first chance they get. Is that all you've got, seriously? You don't have any other way to justify Israel's actions to yourself and others than calling anyone who criticizes Israel an anti-semite? You should take a moment to think about the plausability of everyone around the world hating Israel and Jews. It is not very likely. Back in the old days Jews were "outsiders" in the countries they lived in and an easy target for extremists to incite hatred against for their own purposes. This is different from one country criticising another's actions. Of course it is very easy to insipre nationalism by tricking your fellow countrymen into believing that countries around the world hate your own country. Something of a standard tactic to justify one's own actions. In my mind mr Stein has provided a pretty good analysis that explain European criticism of Israel. Certainly much better than just calling everyone an anti-semite.
If I recall correctly, it was a British lord who promised the freshly conquered territory to inspiring immigrants against the local people's will. It was a British military occupation that the majority of Jewish immigrants flooded in making the bloody creation of Israel possible. All of this occurred against the will entire region that Palestine had been carved out of when the West divided up the Middle East. If you walked in Briton's shoes, you might see that this isn't something they really wish they hadn't done. Israel is like Briton's rather embarrassing illegitimate child.
I dont think Europe is in a position to lecture Israel or any other country considering it`s shamefull past. Europe gave us 2 world wars, the holocaust, the inquisition, the colonization and domination of many nations not to mention all the other crimes which are too many to mention.Europe`s real love affair with terrorist loving Palestinians has more to do with it`s trying to cover for it`s own shamefull anti semetic past.Europe tries to cover for it by creating a false victim (The Palestinians) and a false victimizer (Israel). Through a European reversal of reality, Europe tries to cover for it`s own shamefull past.
Before you dismiss the European point of view, it would be good to recall that Britain, France and Spain have first hand (and recent) experience with terrorism, how to deal with it, and how not to deal with it. In particular, it is now standard understanding in Europe that terrorism is a symptom, and you cannot pretend to deal with it without dealing with its causes too. You are free to ignore this, but do not expect Europe to show any understanding for stupidity on the side of a supposed ally.
europe had spawned the evils of fascism, nazism and communism. europe is not a product of democracy. the european union itself is a kafakesque bureaucratie, not a representative democracy. europe's "rejection of force" has been possible only because it has been able to rely on the united states to fight its wars and to protect it. indeed, without american intervention, the genocide in the former yugoslavia would have continued. europe's obsession with the palestinians is sheer hypocrisy. while nearly all of the palestinian groups are listed as terror organisations, and while all are deeply anti-democratic, europe will always criticise and haunt democratic israel. europe is also deeply dependent on muslim states for its energy resources, for its trade and for intelligence. europe is not in a position to be impartial.
is that Israel's leaders lack spine, they make excuses of why they need to avoid bombings to kill terrorist masterminds when civilians of an enemy state could potentially be killed. In any other war in modern and ancient history, civilians were killed in battles, yet it is specifically with Israel that everyone comes out against, even when the 'proof' is often misproven, often unsubstantiated, or is coming from biased and unreliable sources claiming civilians were targeted. When Israel's leaders show weakness and hint at the fact that they are committing crimes, then what can one expect from Israel's enemies and friends?
Dressing up a lie in diplomatic terminology does not make these statements the truth. The truth of the matter is that the in-bred antisemitism in Europe has had a resurgence due to the fear of terrorism and the leverage of Arab oil. Moreover, the current behavior fits the same pattern of European behavior that instigated the start of World War II. It is weakness, appeasement and the unwillingness to stand up to tyrants that is the cause. Yes, Israel is in a different situation. Israel must face reality, and, the Europeans choose deny reality. There is the real difference.
Well, let's just hope the Europeans experience a little terrorism, so then they will be more understanding and willing to walk in our shoes!
EU a load of....What are the EU, the holier then Thou countries like Briton, doing in Iraq? Pakistan or Afghanistan? It is time to call the baby its rightful name: Same ugly antisemitism that manifested itself in the most horrid way only 70 some years ago is a live and well. No matter what Israel will do short of vanish will not be to their liking, then they will turn their foul attention to the Jewish people. History has repeated itself time and again yet the Israelis and the Jewish people refuse to learn from the best teacher the past.
This article is the usual sort of muck that denies Israels responsibility for its own action. The thousands of civilians killed by Israel are "unintended". That's a comfort. Some Israelis consider Israel faultless and no action, however extreme is every cricized. This in itself is a red flag, even if someone knew nothing of the facts.
EU has no specific reason to be hostile to Israel. The real question is why are they showing so much hostility to Israel? The answer is very simple: they are using anti-Semite demagoguery as a way to appease Arabs and for business reasons. Europeans are corrupted and despicable.