Enough political correctness

Very good article indeed! Why state Flemish as second language, while it's the language of the majority?

Howdy Barry; Intense physical pain has long been recognized as a valid path to spiritual enlightenment. Some Hindus lie on beds of nails. Some Christians have themselves nailed to crosses. Some Muslims self-flagellate themselves. 99.99% of the time it doesn't work, but it is no worse than any other method. The biggest failure of the Avatars of the past (including Moses, Buddha, Jesus, and Mohammed) has been their inability to communicate their knowledge of God to their followers. Shoot, if I want to solve a differential equation, there are proceedures that I can follow that will lead me to an answer even if it as an infinite series. When it comes to knowledge of God, however, every religion has been an abysmal failure. There simply is no formula that one can follow that guarantees enlightenment--just some hints that might help--maybe. Why are we here anyway? I was under the impression that we are here for sole purpose of knowing God. What's your reason?

A reasonable post, for you, but with an incomplete history. I suppose you consider America's war on Saddam an attack against Islam. How pathetic. First we're hated for supporting dictators then we're hated for taking one down and attempting to support a Democracy. As for Israel, why is it that when Israel wins a war against the entire Arab world they are accused of attacking the Arabs, yet when Jordan defeats the Palestinians or Lebanese Christians massacre Palestinians, those incidents are forgotten or spun? In Israel Jews are constantly in a war of words with each other. In Palestine, Fatah and Hamas take turns launching attacks on Israel as a form of internal politics. i understand the historical differences responsible for these events, but you just seem to deny them. In other words, your arguments never lack passion, but sometimes I think they lack integrity.

Tell you what, Mr. Murray, as you look for your own bogeyman. Slowly (hopefully not too slowly), global warming will be addressed in the west and you'll have to look for the next capitalist bogeyman. But the west today has learned not to blow up ancient giant sculptures. We recognize the value of other cultures. Islam has a magnificent past. It is going through a horrific present. I pray that they work through this horrible time. Well, I know YOUR theme. You have no tolerance for the culture YOU come from and you believe that intolerance makes you superior. It does NOT.

You're right

I think your view is overly simplistic. The Muslim immigration into Europe is not unique. The problem with such immigrations is that as the new group becomes more powerful it demands cultural changes that are offensive to the original inhabitants. Reactions are inevitable, such things even happened to the Mormons as they traveled west across America. It really takes men of good will to prevent horrible conflict and unfortunately in the case of the cartoons a number of imams in Europe chose to be mischievous rather than decent. What we have here is more than a failure to communicate, it seems like a desire for conflict on both sides. I fear for the future of this world.

You are a fascinating study. At a time when the fires of hatred are raging all you can do in nearly every post is fan the flames higher. Jews Jews Jews Jews. Do you really think that if you wiped us all off the face of the earth you would have peace and justice? There are Jews -- Zionists, I might add -- who are the Arabs' greatest potential allies -- well, you'd rather hate us, you poor, pathetic excuse for a human being.

go ahead make a cartoon with Moses. Just leave our 6 million of dead children, women and men alone. Human beings do not mock dead people.

BLASPHAMOUS JOKE?!? That was a perfectly good golfing joke, and one that can be told in mixed company (take your pick, gender and/or religious company). In fact, I'm going to one up you on this and send it in to the "God Squad" (Msgr. Thomas Hartman and Rabbi Marc Gellman) to see what they say in terms of blasphamy. As for the Marcus Pincus Joke, well hey, you can't win them all. Remember, you asked for the details. But as for rapping? Sorry, not really me. I'm more of a Jazz and Blues type of guy. Tom Lehrer, was a 1960's political-commentator who used song and verse to get his point across (note, see Mark Lincoln's comments on the subject as well here). You can google or wikipedia Lehrer for more info. R-E-S-P-C-T, is not rap, but the title of a song by R&P legend, Aretha Franklin. And again, I'll give you my suggestion that you pick up a copy of the book "Jewish Humor, What the Best Jewish Jokes Say About the Jews" by Rabbi Joseph Telushkin.

This board is full of wrong comparisons. Israely checkpoints are compared to Nazi death camps. Deliberate killing of children by terrorists compared to collateral damage of military operations etc. Now it is a new one.

Yeah, it was when Judaism was not just a religion but the way of life like Islam today. Be just a religion, no more than that and try to accept culture and way of life of the host country.

Sorry, the muslims stance in Europe does not, in any substantial way remind me of the pre holocaust jews. There is only superficial resemblance in reference to skin and eye color. The jews of pre holocaust western europe were trying their best to integrate, to blend and assimilate. They did not try to destroy the European societies or threaten them with death and destruction. Don't forget the Madrid and London bombings. This is nothing like 1930s Europe.

Who really cares?

This is exactly what europeans used to say about the jews hundreds of years ago.

Now now young kid, if anyone should be jealous, it ought to be the Muslims. To start with: How many Nobel Price Laureates of Muslim origin do we know?! In the relation to there puny number, in comparaison, the Jews have just take it all> Boy just few millions with such contribution to humanity, and poor one billion of great human with potential, but so far nothing to show for it. Lets hope that in future, the Muslim will come up with some contribution to save this planet, but at the moment: Nadda, Zilch. The European were Jaleous of the Jews, that is why the made their life difficult, but they survive, On the other hands, the Muslims are jaleous of the European, that is why they make life for the European difficult_ Do you see the difference, now, May you have a better points of referrence in the future.

Exactly!

Poor Colin, you really should turn on the lights. What do you think has been happening in Malaysia, the Phillipines, etc. Time to quit hitting the snooze button. Islam is the fastest growing cult in the world. It is rapidly taking over the far east, by violence or vote. Saudi Arabia is actively PAYING a stipend to foreign workers from India and other non-Islamic nations who come work in Saudi Arabia to change religion and recognize Islam as their religion. You ARE the typical Californian. There ARE important events happening outside Lala Land. CA itself has had an extraordinary increase in Muslim population in the last twenty years. Soon, you may find yourself kidnapped and beheaded. Better you than me.

Moslem do not pollute.? Do away with Israel and the environment problem will be solved.? I have heard this cr-p by inuendo from the greenies,thats why they are starting to be treated like the fairies at the bottom of the garden.

How much more grovelling do the Arabs and their apologists need to make them happy.? The Anglican church boycott,selectively against Israel.The former Archbishop Clark says he is ashamed to be Anglican,but never mind,Arabs can do no wrong and it is politically incorrect think otherwise. The only politcally correct description of Arabs is "innocent victims".

Stay tuned!

Are Jews interested in seeing a fourth Reich in Europe today? reply Are fanatic Muslims interested in a World Reich without non-muslims, humanity and freedom?

Nice...I haven't seen any one answer sensibly to your questions...why is that ,I wonder..maybe because they can't!!

How do you know that Hussein gave his life with 70 family members? Because it says so? In your book? Why would anybody beat themselves with knives or razors or whatever..what's the point. You are so primitive it's pathetic. I feel sorry for anyone that believes in this crap..I think you've all been brainwashed since you were little kids and now you can't think for yourselves.Very sad!

"A war of religion is in progress. Desired and declared by a fringe of that religion, perhaps, but a war of religion nonetheless. A war which they call Jihad. Holy War. A war that might not seek to conquer our territory, but that certainly seeks to conquer our souls. That seeks the disappearance of our freedom and our civilization. That seeks to annihilate our way of living and dying, our way of praying or not praying, our way of eating and drinking and dressing and entertaining and informing ourselves. You don?t understand or don?t want to understand that if we don?t oppose them, if we don?t defend ourselves, if we don?t fight, the Jihad will win. And it will destroy the world that for better or worse we?ve managed to build, to change, to improve, to render a little more intelligent, that is to say, less bigotted--or even not bigotted at all. And with that it will destroy our culture, our art, our science, our morals, our values, our pleasures.."

Hey Bill Did we not hear about all the corruption about the Annan family.My dear fellow,they are all at it. The same apparently took place during the Gulf War.All of them! Shall I name them?why not,it was public knowledge and the persons are..............Do you know what?my mind just went blank,honestly.One of them was the successor to Mrs.Thatcher.Isn't it frustrating to forget this.I'll bet you when I leave and go to my slumber(late here in the U.K),it will come back to me.Anyway,they were all at it from the benefactors the Saudis.shshsh even storming norman,shhhh...

There are precepts in the Bible against tatoes, scarifications, cutting onself, because those were pagan practices of the neighboring Cananeans who used those to honor their deities. Remember the prophet Elie who massacred the 200 prophets of Baal. The prophets of Baal were guilty of the above. Just as many Christian and Jewish festivals have replaced some pagan festivals, keeping the outside pomp and ritual but changing the meaning and the interpretation, so this 3000 year old festival has been morphed into a Muslim ritual. But it is an unbelievably loathsome and repulsive ritual

The Egyptian newspaper Al Fagr printed the famous cartoons on October the 17th 2005. No debate or other reactions from the Egyptians, according to Denmarks ambassador in Egypt, Mr. Bjarne Soerensen. So Hamas wins the election, but as they are considered a terror group by many countries of the Western world, they need a way to get some goodwill. They use the cartoon affair, creats easily a riot all over the planet. And now they promise they will calm down the furious Muslims in the ME, and get the glory of beeing a peaceloving and peaceful, responsible organisation. It just might work.........

Hiya Barry You know I have been wanting to post some to you and when I see your name I say:Oh there's Barry! Meaning to get in touch with you again.You too are doing jolly well I see,concidering that you said you were new to this game,remember? I hope this comes out because I want you to see that I haven't forgotten our first encounter with those girls. A small problem is that you are from the different time zone come here at leisure whereas us here in the U.K are almost getting ready to drop! Regards p/s Ha'aretz Please let Barry#172 read this.Toda

Fox behave yourself,Ashura is not a happy occasion Stupid.No need to congratulate.Its amemorial day. Its the day we mourn and cry for our Beloved Hadrat Imam Hussein who gave his life along with 70 family members and relatives to uphold the sanctity of Islam.He was slayed along with nearly all of his family,very few survived.Thats a the day we cry our hearts out we lament and pray in agony. Plz do not make fun of my spiritual day,how would you feel if someone made fun of masada memorial day or day of holocaust. Plz respect us for our religious day has nothing to do with your conflict and hatred,its a sacred day for all muslims too not only shiates i would beat myself too If i could. I would beat my heart out. The sectarian violence in afghanistan,Pakistan and else is due to the political weakness and unrest and doesnot necessarily fall on sunni shiate division.

"Climate change is irreversible apparently and will kill millions in the next hundred years." Islamic radicalism is irreversible apparently and will kill millions in the next hundred years. Is it an exagerration? Islamic wars have claimed MILLIONS of lives in the couple of decades or so. Now if you had stated hundreds of millions of lives lost due to climate change, you could be onto a winner.

geeez I'd never known you can rap,Blues are you sure you're feeling ok?? First the blasphemic jokes,then came the pervert joke and now this?? God Lord,what is happening to you??Is the Zionist propaganda making you all weird?? something must be wrong with me too?I don't get your musical ability either??

It was once said when Lebanese Cristian massacred Palestinians in Sabra & Shatila- Goy vs Goy and they still blame the Jews... A plague on both their houses.

"Then we need to extend a little sincere respect to Muslims." Well Europe has been giving plenty of respect Mark. In the UK only yesterday they found guilty a fanatical Muslim cleric who had been spouting hatred and diatribes for 10 years with the full knowledge of MI5. His hate speeches were regularly reported on in the National press. The political climate has only changed very recently in the UK after the 7/7 attacks. France has a huge Muslim population, welcomed in from unstable regimes.UK has pushed the multiculturalism model and France the Integration model. Both the UK and the French have the same real worries over the radicals amongst them. The same in Holland and Belgium. Respect is one thing. But it's a two way process. In short there has been too little from the muslims. Theres a large Hindu population in the UK as well. No problems. Go figure Mark. As for the House of Saud being despised on the Arab street. I have to chuckle. I certainly despise them. Vainglorious and corrupt in equal measure. Exporters of Wahabism to the world. But the Arab street is largely wahabi! The clerics control the Arab Street and most are Wahabi/Salafist. They want Sharia initiated in an Islamic Saudi State. It was Osama's raison d'etre. So what is it you are suggesting? Pull the rug from Saudi so as to allow a fanatical regime to replace it? Stop palling up with Musharaf. So ending the support for Afghanistan. Re- enter the Taliban. Musharaf may be a dictator. But he?s a whole lot better than Saddam and you were quiet happy for the US to let Saddam be. So why not a friendly dialogue with Musharaf? What EXACTLY are you asking for?

Jews are jealous of muslims because they have made livelihoods and homes in europe happily and muslims had more sympathy of europe than jews ever had,They couldn't stand that fact, along with U.N lean towards the muslim world is also a thorn in jewish eyes,since you guys only have USA as an ally we do the cleaning up by using our veto power after Israel usually makes a mess. What will you guys do without us.Our tax payers money is going to feed israeli war machine and kill innocent lives.If you guys had any descency you'd live in peace with palestinians and not treat them inhumanly.

Why in the hell would I want to read the quoran?Especially in arabic! If the Muslims of the world have problems with their social status,then they need look no further than their fanatical leaders...that they follow like ROBOTS!!

1. Our government came out against the cartoons. 2. The radical Islamists wouldn't dare expose themselves in public for fear of being deported under the Patriot Act. If there are still sleeper cells here why would they take the chance of being exposed. BTW - I too felt there was no reason to publish such insulting cartoons. We don't like the anti-Semitic cartoons that appear in the Arab press daily so why do the same to someone else? I think the Danes took it too far and although I don't support the violence I understand how they feel. They should have used non-violent protest instead. As it is 20 people were killed (all Muslims) and that is just unnecessary.

You dare to call muslims monsters,shame on you,what would you rather I call your so very unpopular opinion. how about monstreous policies against Palestinians,their horrific state of life,Their Hurrendous future. All due to an UGLY israeli Aparthaid policy

To say that worse cartoons have emerged in muslim world than the Blasphemy against My Prophet is an outright lie. antisemetic cartoons have emerged yes I agree but then as worse muslim cartoons have emerged too in Israeli and western media. Muslims have never depicted any judeo-christian Prophet in a Lord forgive me for saying so in mockeing way. You can accuse us of many things but certainly not this.

...who is crystal clear, and who has honest and Jew loving nature. In the matter of fact, the whole UN is very lovely and useful organization. It is about as useful as Tylenol to the corps. So, Bill next time, please do not refer to Kofi as Thief, Corrupt criminal and anti - Semite. Don?t do it, because it goes without saying.

Kofi Annan is a waste of space,and the UN is totally useless.By the time they finish discussing,revueing,consulting,blah blah..whatever crisis they were discussing is usually over or so far gone that people are dead before the paperwork gets out of their "in basket". It''s beuracratic BS and a waste of an enormous amount off money. It's time the UN went the way of the League of Nations..remember that?

Have another beer,lad!

Sure, sure, but the jews were "happy" to be Europeans and did not try to change the way of living of the majority! And the arabs are not persecuted the way the jews were.

Muslims cannot and will not adapt or integrate in what is basically a christian society. Please read the kuran specially in its arabic version, the original one that is. If the Europeans want to go back again to religeous wars of the 15 & 16 centuries, that will be their decision but do not expect muslims to cast their vote on the basis of rationality : they will only vote for the candidate of their faith. Period. They will push Belgium or any other country into the third world! The muslims of the world, in an age of easier communications are angry not because of the "offensive" caricatures as much as their poor social achievements. For a while, it would be rational to review the laws that were voted in for a judeo-chistian environment and start sending back these immigrants to their respecting countries where they belong and where they can live happy muslim lives : It would not be the first time in History.

More greasing of the palms to keep the anti-semitic pot stirring ???

S..you're in rare form tonight,matey..keep it up!!!!

...western liberalism delivered monster - political correctness that during the last 20 years is ruling the western world. Due to many factors like size, surrounding by brutal terrorists, market dependency, corruption etc., Israel became victim #1 of this ugly creature and this political correctness costs Israel many Jewish lives. In my unpopular opinion - than earlier Israel wake up and kill this monster, than more chances she will have for survival. Meanwhile, I am not very optimistic, I would rather describe myself as being optipistic.

Yehchezkel ( Exekial ) Chapter 38 Describes G-D destroying a confederation of Islam on the mountains of Israel when they attack Israel and the Jewish people with the purpose of a final solution . Then , and only then , will the muslims of the earth know they have been conned and their desert moon god cannot save them . Then they will have an opportunity to turn with all their hearts to the the G-D of Abraham , Isaac , Jacob and Israel . The creator of the heavens and the earth .

"LET`S BOMB EUROPE AND THE U.S.A" - in55ane in London You going to start with London? Your suggestion would mean going to war with three nuclear nations, possessing between them over half of all nuclear weapons.

"But, Mark, whay is the "ONE STEP" you refer to??" - Ani Though they were not the sole cause, and though they did not intend to unleash the hounds of hell upon western civilization; it was the neoconservatives of the Reagan administration which recruited, trained and equipped what eventually became Al Queada. Some of the same men were responsible for the insanity in Iraq. Step one to returning some stability into the middle east and reducing terrorism is to stop those lunatic neocons from being in a position to screw up again, and again, and again.

Hello Jeff I read your post with great interest.I can understand the danger of Hydrogen powered cars.But surely sometime soon there will be an alternative form of energy to free us--perhaps not totally but to a lesser degree.We know that the polution in its present form of is certainly not condusive to clean atmosphere and nuclear power plants are one of the options.Of course further technically friendly components may still be found.I am sure as I said it here,that the scientists are not sitting on their laurels and must be not only concerned but furiously trying to accomodate us hungry car users, etc.The trouble is that oil is not only used for the mechanics of cars,it is for umpteenth other things as well.Too complicated for me to go into detail,but I'm sure you are more informed than myself. But the day will surely come when things will change.Not in my lifetime,nor perhaps in yours.Did you hear about Nigeria being one of biggest producers of oil in the world?

Jacob Blues, I almost posted a couple of lines from Lehrer's "Who's Next" the other day. "Egypt's going to get one too, Just to use on you know who. Israel's getting tense wants one in self defense. The Lord's our shepherd says the psalm. But just in case you better get a bomb." - Tom Lehrer

The inevitable result of riches in all cultures is a low birth rate. This is the ONLY hope for the world to avoid environmental and resource exhaustion.

"Climate change is irreversible apparently and will kill millions in the next hundred years." Islamic militancy is irreversible apparently and will kill millions in the next hundred years. It already killed millions in the last 30 years. Over a million in Sudan. Civil war.A million in Iraq Iran war. Listen Mr Murray, perhaps you should have said Climate change will kill hundreds of millions. Now that would have got a response.

"integration" People of other origins make and effort and integrate themselves. Those that you mention don't make the effort because they don't want to integrate.

Excellent article that should be published about 23 years ago. Well, it would be very interesting to know - how many Jewish lives would be saved in Israel, if local liberals would not spoil air with their politically correct f@rt? I did not anticipate to see this article being published on Haaretz site, that I consider as the tribune of pals

....One must remember that muslim's mostly listen to, and read thier own co-relgionist for both thier news, opinions which in turn develops thier world views. This why you see Arab TV Discs in Deaborn Michigan, while Moslem newspapers in Deaborn print distestable hooked nose Jews in cartoons etc., Thier view seens distorted for the West news, newspapes, etc.,filled with freedom of thought and expression are just another form of western "corruption". They do not for most part assimilate for they set up closed communities to show thier moral superoity. While in Detroit Inner city Blacks complain of mideastern mistreatment consistanly.

Mark. how to go about preventing the maniacs???

So tell me John, and how many Jewish citizens exist freely in Gaza and/or the other "Palestinian" territories (or for that matter, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, etc.,etc.), with full citizenship? Remind me of the Jewish parlimantarians in these various countries...

... got in common???? I think that what the world needs now is lo..no is....for the Palies and the Israelis to create the biggest Karaoke bar in the world. From the Popular Back-Up Singers for the Liberation of Karaoke in the ME Give me PBSLKME or Deaf!

Haaretz: "There are already 25 million to 30 million Muslims on Europe's soil and this becomes a threat. It's a real Trojan horse." Franz: There has always been many muslims and jews in Europe. Europe Wouldn't have developed at this pace without the jews and we've leart much from the muslims too. I don't see them as a threat to Europe but I see a hugh problem in Hamas not recognizing the right of Yisrael to exist. I hope Hamas will face the fact that they'll have to recognize Yisrael.

Fortuyn is dead, Le Pen is irrelevant, and so is Dewinter. Their parties are not terrorizing (a) people for some of there extremist countrymen to be able to hold on to some stolen territories.

What you want (hooo) baby I got it What you need (hooo) you know I got it (Hooo) all I'm asking (hooo) is for a little respect ( Just a little bit) when you come home (Just a little bit) hey baby ( Just little bit) When you come home ( Just a Little Bit) Mister I ain't gonna do you wrong while you're gone I ain't gonna do you wrong 'cause I don't wanna All I'm asking is for a little respect when you come home (Just a Little Bit) Baby ( Just a little bit ) When you come home ( Just a little Bit) Yeah I'm about to give you all my money And all I'm asking in return honey Is to give me my profits when you get home (Justa Justa Justa) Yeah baby when you get home ( Just a little Bit ) Yeah ( Just a little bit ) Hooo your kisses sweeter than honey and guess what so is my money All I want you to do for me is give it to me whn you get home ( Re re re re spect) Yeah baby whip it to me ( Just a little bit) when you get home now ( Just a little bit) R-E-S-P-E-C-T find out what it means to me R-E-S-P-E-C-T take out the TCP ohhhh (Sock it to me,etc.) A little respect oh yeah ( Just a little bit) A little respect ( Just a little Bit)

Howdy S; People are definitely looking into different sources for energy and there are several alternatives to oil available now. It's basically a matter of cost. If the price of oil goes up any higher, then other means of propelling one's chariot into town become more competative. Nuclear power plants can produce electricity which can be used to charge batteries which can be used to propel vehicles, but not very fast and not for long periods of time. Nevertheless, battery-powered cars would suffice for most people's needs. There has been a lot of talk about hydrogen-powered cars. Hydrogen can be separated from water by electrical power and then recombined explosively with oxygen to form water again. It's clean, but it sounds dangerous. Who wants to drive down the road sitting on top of a tank of compressed hydrogen? One minor accident and the whole system would go up in an explosion that would make the Hindenburg disaster look like a firecracker.

frank You have twisted the fact concerning the Mexicans and the U.S.The contrary is true.The U.S are even now going to erect a wall because of the influx of illegal workers.And when they catch them they are thrown out pronto.What I am saying is first hand knowledge.They have the security forces on constant vigil trying to stop these poor people to cross over into the U.S. So, where do you get your information from I cannot understand. When you give us the example of Europe it is true,and look what has happened to those countries.They are now reaping what they sowed are they not eh? I can understand about the population explosion etc,and the fact they allowed these immigrants to come to work on low wages,right? Fine.But they too even now are beginning to question their rights,joining the trade unions to further their living conditions. so,we are back to square one.What to do,and what to do.JUST REMEMBER THAT YOUR PREMISE ON THE U.S WAS WRONG AND ADMIT IT FRIEND

I think Schwartz specified the word "EVEN "after building up the strict adherence of the muslim religion that by the time he gets to EVEN you are so turned off by the exremety of their adherence the last thing you want is their language to be officially recognized but its because of the previous demands made by the muslim that the language now represents religiosity and i think Jordan is right religion is the real problem here.

According to Khalid, "In the 1930s, the Nazis and Hitler in his book Mein Kampf claimed that "Jews is the world`s number one problem." And the result was the holocaust. Now, you are saying that Islam is the world`s number one problem. This means that You advocate the extermination of Muslims...since they make a problem? So what can we deduce from this?" Baloney --- When someone states a problem in similar terms (Islamic attempts at coercive changes in European societies) it does not indicate that the person advocates a similar solution. Who is calling for Muslim extermination? No one. Khalid continues, "As for the real proble in this wrold, it is the Israeli occupation of Palestine." Gee, Mr. Amayreh, according to your logic you must be calling for the extermination of Israel, like your Iranian supporters. Finally, what does Israel have to do with this article? Nothing. But you will take any opportunity to slander Jews and Israel. THIS IS NOT THE WAY FORWARD!

HU55EIN, first of all, do you always use the number 5 to represent the letter s??? Secondly, You GOT bombs? And, thirdly, MORON, you're in europe. suicide seems to be a concept familiar to your sort. Now wouldn`t that be loverly ha?

No-one seems to have responded to my query about which was more dangerous for the world - Islam or Climate Change. Climate change is irreversible apparently and will kill millions in the next hundred years. Why this obsession with the danger of Islam? The Muslims will die along with the Christians and Jews and Hindus and Buddhists and Sikhs because of the weather. Climate change is a far greater threat to the world than Islam - and it is the industrialised world which is at fault.

Bush sounded 100% phony this week,...TRUE THAT!!! But, Mark, whay is the "ONE STEP" you refer to??

And isn't it amazing how people who have never ever met before can agree so completely on this issue. Wow, it must be that we are just smarter than everyone else....Great minds think alike.

Oh, the white folks hate the black folks, And the black folks hate the white folks. To hate all but the right folks Is an old established rule. But during National Brotherhood Week, National Brotherhood Week, Lena Horne and Sheriff Clarke are dancing cheek to cheek. It's fun to eulogize The people you despise, As long as you don't let 'em in your school. Oh, the poor folks hate the rich folks, And the rich folks hate the poor folks. All of my folks hate all of your folks, It's American as apple pie. But during National Brotherhood Week, National Brotherhood Week, New Yorkers love the Puerto Ricans 'cause it's very chic. Step up and shake the hand Of someone you can't stand. You can tolerate him if you try. Oh, the Protestants hate the Catholics, And the Catholics hate the Protestants, And the Hindus hate the Moslems, And everybody hates the Jews. But during National Brotherhood Week, National Brotherhood Week, It's National Everyone-smile-at-one-another-hood Week. Be nice to people who Are inferior to you. It's only for a week, so have no fear. Be grateful that it doesn't last all year!

You speak sense. want to dialogue??

The root cause of the European situation is LOW BIRTHRATE. YEurope must bring in new immigrants to do simple work because the European population is not reproducing itself, in fact diminishing in numbers. Who will take care of the old, as people get to live longer? They must import manpower. If Europe does not want to get again into the situation of racism and racist parties (which don't solve the root problem), there is one of two things they can do: 1. Make more babies, Europe. And you will enjoy it too, like the rest of us. Support policies for larger families will help. 2. Find another population group around the world which is more compatible with European values, and bring them in. For example: Central and South America can be good sources. The people are partly Spanish, of European descent, and they are Christians who want to emulate the West. It will cost more to bring these people to Europe, but less to maintain them there.

Gee, Steve, what about the time between now and the cataclysm to come????? Should we just lay down at the feet of muhammed?, ALL OF US????? Your head is in the clouds, pun intended!

"LET`S BOMB EUROPE AND THE U.S.A" "What do you all say to that.Just a thought that came to mind and would like some response to that idea." That's old hat; you've already done it - the Twin Towers, the Madrid railway stations, the London tube. Maybe you mean "Let's bomb Europe and the USA again"? Figures. Well, just be careful that such a deed isn't traced back to Gaza or anywhere else in Palestine. How muxh Mediterranean seawater would fit into the crater left by what was once Gaza after the Americans and Europeans got done bombing it?

Israel, the only democratic country in the ME. Muslim countries have totalitarian regimes. The Hamastanis should stop working in Israel. Go to your Hamas government asking for jobs.

Told you Dewinter was smart!

So Muslims shouldn't come to Europe. They should go to Muslim countries, where they can be first class citizens. (hehehe)

Thanks to the European colonists those people have infrastructures, roads, trains, etc. European colonists built. Islamist invaders always destroy.

We don't want to love those who want to murder us. Yes, I am Islamophobic.

First of all,I dont support the Hamas. I support the most Jewish of all Jewish teams (including Hapoel Tel Aviv) namely Tottenham Hatikvah Hotspur. What are you doing here on this site? There are no Jews left in the East End of London! Meanwhile I dont know if you noticed that there is a saying in the Torah... 'and it came to pass' Basically Davids passed to Defoe and he scored. Forget politics mate, Tottenham rules the world.

"To WestHamUtd, there have been many mistakes made by the US and others in foreighn relations but hindsight is always 20/20.The question is not what happened in the past but what do we do now?" - Jane The first thing we need to do is prevent the maniacs who acted so insanely in the past from acting in the future. Second, we need to stop making things worse. (Which in large part can be fixed in step one). Then we need to extend a little sincere respect to Muslims. The man in the street is not impressed when Bush sucks up to the House of Saud - which many in the Arab street despise. Nor are they impressed when he pats lackeys like Musharraf on the head and tell him he is a good boy. Bush sounded 100% phony this week as he called for tolerance. "Actions speak louder than words." - Theodore Roosevelt

We are commanded by Scripture in Psalm 97:10 to hate evil. The canadian law mentioned by Mr.Weatherdon is very anti-christian. Also in Ecclesiastes 3:8 It says 'A time to love, and a time to hate. I'm not saying it is time to hate muslims, but I am against the one sided philosophy that there is no room to hate that which God has commanded us to hate.

Extremism in any form is wrong. Jew, Muslims, Christians, whomever - you are all in the wrong. It's sickening that the best that the extremist element in the Muslim world can come up with regarding Jews is to call them Nazis. It is a tactic to put people on the defensive as well as continue the ongoing campaign to misinform those who don't know any better. I'm with Jane on this one - moderate Islam is the solution. Of course moderate Judaism and Christianity are also the answer. Lives can never be regained once lost, so I say to everyone on all sides who militantly claim that it's ok to kill anyone - you are all a bunch of hypocritical, one-sided thinkers. Get off your horses - you have gone way off course. Get back and we will find peace lurking just outside reality's perimeter. Peace starts when people put down their rocks, their guns, their bombs, and most importantly, their selfish desire to shape reality in any way that fits their views. Get real & find peace

"Your believe misses the Enlightenment!" - Otto Actually, it was Muslim science and philosophy which saved most of what we have of grecco-roman science and philosophy. And when what was saved made it's way back to Europe, it became one of the foundations of the enlightenment. You should thank Islam for it's contribution to the enlightenment. Alas, about the time Europe was beginning to see the light at the end of the Dark Ages, conservatives came to totally dominate Arabic culture and brought the golden age of Islam to an end.

Now wouldn't that be loverly ha? What do you all say to that.Just a thought that came to mind and would like some response to that idea.

Hmm one doesn't need to like Dewinter or his VB, I don't do, but I think most of you guys and gals would be more than happy, if he and not Achmadinejad was running Iran ...

"Then let`s see those arabs back to their tents in the deserts.GOOD LUCK TO ALL THE SCIENTISTS!" - S, oozing hatred And where would western science be without Algebra S? You do know what Algebra is, and who invented it don't you?

"Are Jews interested in seeing a fourth Reich in Europe today?" - Khalid Some are clearly rooting for it as long as it is Muslims and not Jews headed for the camps.

"Are we living in 1930s-Germany? " - Khalid No, but you Muslims are serving the right-wing need for hate objects quite as well as Jews did for Hilter. In fact, far better, because the riots give some substance to the conservative claims, such as Jews never gave to the claims of Hitler.

PC is a code word. It is one way of sneering while pretending you are not. It is a means of evasion. Ok, all you Jews, Christians and Muslims I have a quote from Rabbi Jesus c. 30 C.E. anyone wish to argue with it? "And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these." - Mark 12:30-31 I mean was this guy PC or what?

The only reality coming out of your posts is that your out of touch with it..Your crying out for help.. Get some help to heal this as well as some diversity training to heal your deep seated hatred of all things Jewish...NOW...

"But?.since the islamic fanatics don?t read the Bible and don?t know GOD anyways?." - from someone by way of Angel Notice the the ? in place of certain punctuation? This is a sign of cut and paste plagiarism. Cite sources Angel. btw, do you have a clue why Muslims might not read the bible? p.s. did you know Jesus is a prophet to Muslims?

" the Fanatics of Islam want to boycott Danish products and European products" - Angel No on should be forced to buy from those they feel insult and mistreat them. While we are on the subject of fanatics, how about the Bushiz who want to boycott Iran?

First to Gabe1 - the 20% I mention is world-wide percentage of radical Islamists among Muslims, not specifically in the PA, but I am sure the PA number can be researched. Muslim - thank you for agreeing with the premise I put forth and for the quote from the Quran which does express moderation in no uncertain terms.I hope that Muslims will return to that Islam and that the growing tide towards radicalism has reached its zenith and will now subside. To WestHamUtd, there have been many mistakes made by the US and others in foreighn relations but hindsight is always 20/20.The question is not what happened in the past but what do we do now? Moderates of all religions must unite (like your football team)and win the war against radical Islam."War on Terror" is a misnomer as terrorism is a technique and not the enemy.The enemy of all free people is radical Islam with its goal of subjugating the world of non-believers, infidels, and moderate Muslims alike, is what we must defeat.

I realize that few conservatives wish to remember just 3 years ago. Let me remind them that one of the opening festivities of the "Crusade" against radical Islam and Iraq, was a prayer meeting in Rumsfield's office led by the Rev. Franklin Graham. Who then proceeded to follow our troops into Iraq with a army of evangelicals intent upon witnessing to the heathen. Onward Christian Soldiers, Marching as to War. . . .

Hallo Khaled, that is your problem! You and your believers are living in the past! We are living in the presence! Your believe misses the Enlightenment!The world has changed.We are not living in the Middle Ages. The second world war is 61 years over! Accept that. By the way: What is the real interpretation of the Koran? The sura of the Koran very often are contradictory. And the result is that there are a lot of different interpretations of the Koran all over the islamic world. There is no unity in the islamic world today. So we will you accept people with other believes when you are not able to know the right interpretation of your own religion? There is no unity in the islamic world and fact is that a lot of Muslims are killing each other all over the world. In Afghanistan, Turkey, Pakistan, Chechenya, Iraq, Palestine, Sudan and so on. Wake up Khaled!

Jane, have you seen cartoon riots in the US? The situation in Europe has a cause that is part of European civilization. There is no de jure apartheid in Europe, but there is de facto apartheid. 40 years ago I outraged a teacher in NJ by suggesting that they were going to have race riots in the North. And that is where the race riots mostly occurred. The reason was that the gap in the South was de jure, enforced by law and the law could be changed, whereas in the North the races were actually physically separated. As Dick Gregory used to point out "In the South they say come as close as you want, just don't come up. But, in the North they say come up as far as you want, just don't come close."

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/680979.html. THIS A SERIOUS PROBLEM.

Populations in Europe are declining and there is no new generation to replace taxpayers to support retirees. Euoropeans have no choice but to maintain their immigrant populations. Simple economics. The United States does the same thing with Mexicans. Countries are racing to invite & compete for immigrants to survive.

MO You say our continents will not exist.I say rubbish to that! Remember those oil sheikies will starve to death without the wherewithal to exist,because they are not only dependent on the oil revenues and nothing else to maintain their lifestyles. Nothing at all.You cannot eat sand and oil now can you? Meantime,the many scientists are beavering away to find--and are nearly there by the way,a cleaner means of powering whatever we need rather than the dirty OIL YOU SO PUT YOUR FAITH IN! Everyone knows what great damage this viscose sticky substance is causing the world over,and time is on our side.Therefore,don't gloat about the need for this substance called OIL. We will prevail and it will materialize soon.Then let's see those arabs back to their tents in the deserts.GOOD LUCK TO ALL THE SCIENTISTS!

Right wing Populist demagogues always have to have a distinct group to hate. 80 years ago in the US the KKK hated blacks, Jews and Catholics in that order. Now the skin heads tend to hate blacks, Jews, Muslims and homosexuals. Even the soft-core hate groups like the Christian Coalition have had to generate a wave of hatred towards homosexuals to give their member someone to hate. Amongst most decent westerner's it is no longer acceptable to hate blacks, Jews, Catholics, Protestants and in some cases homosexuals. So, who's left? AH! Muslims!

If ever one has seen beyond the rhetoric of the west, you have. Thankyou for making things plain english.

To Netanya Mr. Dewinter has actually close reations with the Jewish community in Antwerp and can count on many Jewish votes in the next elections. Although he is exteme right, he definitely is not a socalled neo-nazi. He is too clever for that. He advocates the theory that emigrants have to adjust to local culture, laws and language. For this the Vlaams Blok was convicted as being racial by a francophone judge in Ghent after several other judges had even refused to hear this case. What the Vlaams Belang is promoting is already a fact in neighbouring countries and many integration laws are already in place, even in the Netherlands. Belgium seems te be far behind and calls those who suggest similar laws, racist and nazis. This is mainly a political matter sponsered especially by the francophone socialist party in Wallonia, the P.S. and blindly followed by the coalition parties in the government. Belgian logic? Flanders is sick of this and wants to separate from the south.

I think you are right in a way; that the muslims are not behaving like the jews pre WW2. But you are wrong in saying that we muslims want more than the jews did. We also want just to be able to live in peace. May I remind you that violent scenes of the protests were not from europe and those that did display unsuitable behaviour/ banners were outrightly condemned by most muslims. But surely we will protest otherwise do you not feel we will end up as the jews of europe. We also have learned lessons of history and cannot let it happen again. Most islam bashers seem to forget that our fathers were brought into euro legitimately to compasate for the gap in laborourers. And we are now the 4th gen living here and contributing to the economy and paying our taxes. I feel the day when a DEMOCRACY forbids any religion to keep its roots peacefully is the day its no longer one. Lets not let Europe sink back 60yrs as we are always claming arabs to be backwards. we might not no the differenc.

The problem of islam is not the problem of immigrants, what most far-right politicians say, but the islam-part of teh population in the Western countries. The solution is not limiting immigrants, but help the (mostly poor!) islamics in Western countries by sending all children to good schools. Going to school, where they think about society, about themselves, about respect. Teaching respect is the solution. Also for Danish and French cartoonists.

The Arabs behaved badly towards the influx of Jewish refugees from 1870 onwards. Why should the Europeans be any more welcoming? (Except that, they are. No Euros are calling for a mass murder, at the very least.)

As others on this forum have pointed out, before DEwinter ran Vlaams Belang, he ran Vlaams Blok, which was openly racist. One has to suspect that he is trying to hide behind a cloak of respectability with the new party.

TO ALL OF YOU I SAY THIS REGARDING THE IMMIGRANTS IN EUROPE OR U.S.A: "WHEN IN ROME DO AS THE ROMANS DO". THAT'S IT.YOU DON'T LIKE IT? THEN GO BACK WHERE YOU CAME FROM AND STOP PERSECUTING YOUR HOST COUNTRY. FULL STOP TO ALL OF THOSE MUSLIMS.AND GET A LIFE BEFORE YOU REGRET IT!

What a pity for the iranian president.

European The man have nazi tendencies,but the time has come--nay overdue,to FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE! Don't be such a ninny and accept the truth for once. If we let these barbarians go further do you think that you will be any safer? I have a feeling you must have very LEFTIST leanings and that is why you disapprove of the man.If by chance he doesn't succeed,don't worry as things are at present someone else will take the cudgels and say:ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.The sooner this takes place the better for the rest of the whole law abiding,democratic,well ballanced people of the world will be.

Stephen, you question Stephen Duke on where he gets his information regarding the Arab community in Israel from. I ask you, how did you become such an expert. Have you evr been here, have you lived in both an Arab and Israeli town to see the difference. what do you know, that does not come from some Wahabi hate site. I live in Wadi ara, my son goes to school in an Arab-Jewish mixed school. I know the parents, I have visited their homes and they have visited mine. I know what there towns look like, I know how many clans make up the village, I see their roads, their sewage and their schools. what do you know, other than the propoganda that you have succumbed to so readily.

Mikey You have put your hand right on the button! If they don't abide by the rules and regulations of the countries they decided to live in,then they can just pack their bags and go back to where they originated from.Didn't they leave those countries because of the restrictions and insuportable treatment they were under? And see the primitive lives they had.I say,send them all back! Why does Europe have to undergo their obnoxious lifestyle,imposing their 7th century dictum when they get the benefit from the said countries they decide to reside in. This is adding insult to injury,and I for one wouldn't tolerate it for one minute. Islam is a religion that is not compatible with our modern view of the world as we mow live--not way back in earlier times but are now and have been for decades,of not several centuries in the enlightened world. I AM SICK TO THE STOMACH TO READ YET AGAIN ABOUT THESE MUSLIMS,ESPECIALLY THE POLITICALLY CORRECTNESS THAT KEEPS REVERBERATING!

The Europeans got rid of their Jews. Now they have Muslims instead. There is an old addage -"be careful what you wish for you might get something else instead." I wonder if the Euorpeans wish they had their Jews back.

"There are problems in Iraq and else wehre because Muslims are a nationa under attack from the US and Israel." Israel is not involved in the Iraqi war. Not one soldier has ever step into any Arab country to star ta war. So please stop your idiotic speech about Israel casuing Muslim problems. Israel is not involved in today's bombing in Pakistain. I am sure you'll find some connection of an israeli sleeping with a muslim that was a direct result of the bombing. In addition, please read your Koran, which shows Islam is NOIT inherently civilized and moderate. You had Mohammen beheading jews, just like muslims do today. "When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield strike off their heads." (Sura 47, Verse 4) 9:123: ?Oh ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers and let them find harshness in you.? There is a LOT more passesge that show Muhammad beheading Banu Qurayza the Jewish tribe. Also Muhammad raping a jewish girl. Yea,I guess this is what you call civilized and moderate

Well said and very true.Regards

thank you Yaakov, thank you for your thirty second history of Chritianity and Islam. I came away from your p[osting just brimming with new knowledge. thanks big time. Unfortunately you are sounding like Koffi Sullivan. Sounds nice, a mix of new age relgion, sociology 101, and white-bread humanism. what you said may be correct, but you have no answers.

I suppose that 800,000 jews could move to gaza and live as 'immigrants' or 'refugees', and of course vote, have full rights etc. Of course jewish schools, kosher food, no transport on shabbat etc. The arabs of course would give way to the changing, evovling society and change with it, yeah, I can live with it.

Or stabbed in the chest etc. as Theo van Gogh was. It's the fear that Salman Rusdie experienced for publishing the Satanic Verses. It's the fear that the children of Pakistani immigrants will blow up busses and subway cars in London. Its the fear that Moroccan immigrants will blow up on the Spanish commuter rail. It's the fear that if every whim of not just ordinary Muslims, but the most extreme, are not met, than the torches will be lit and pitchforks made at the ready. Respect for culture, religion, and tradition is a two-way street, and this is something that Muslims must realize as well.

Wait a minute!!! I thought this forum was for bashing settlers !! I'm disappointed in you Haaretz. A whole article and not one mention of them. Hmmm....

Here we go. From cartoons to political silence. One must either acquiecse to Muslim demands or be listed as a Nazi. Well done Khalid. "The Muslims demanded that boys and girls study separately in schools. The Muslims also demanded that no pig products be eaten in government schools." Either give in to our demands, or we burn the place down. Indeed, to ignore this issue is accepting the above dictates. Respect is a two-way street.

the last battle in vienna was in 1683.perhaps you should be less interested in missionary positions and take up history?

To all those that support kicking Muslims out of Europe or America. If you did not import OIL from Muslim countries, YOUR CONTINENTS WILL NO LONGER EXIST AS YOU KNOW THEM. This is a fact.

Unless the majority of moderate Muslims takes the radicals to task in a public way, denounces them and isolates them in their communities, the fundi losers will continue to tar the whole community with their loserdom trip.The Canadian Muslim Congress is an excellent example.They led the fight against Sharia law being allowed for familly law matters in Ontario and Quebec.While they publicly proclaim their offense at the stupid cartoons they also warn all Canadian Muslims not to fall prey to the fundi losers who try to exploit of this and have condemned in public the exploitation of this issue by the fundi maniacs.They are responsible and honest people of principle and their words have great effect.This is the way to go.The Muslims live in others countries.It is to them to show where they stand and get off the fence.If they do it will be the most powerful weapon against these demented right wing racists, the more Muslims speak up the more they can say "shut up"

The solution for the problem of the badly integrated, poor Muslim and non-Muslim immigrant community is the state organized integration (NOT assimilation) into Europe?s society: education, education, education. Starting with teaching all immigrant the language of their new fatherland. Secondly not to accept unemployment among new immigrants: either you have a job or you skill yourself into a job. Third, criminal behavior of new immigrants (often unemployed, poor) should be dealt with effectively. This doesn?t mean harder punishment, but affordable child care, obligatory family managers (often immigrant children are left alone in the street of the big city to play, aren?t supported to do home work, often have parents who themselves don?t know how to read or write in the local language, etc) The fourth essential action is the education of the European people to stop being afraid of Muslims and immigrants, to stop the implicit and explicit racism towards new immigrants)

Your demagogery does nothing to answer questions: why muslims burned down European embassies in response to mild cartoons? Why do they come to Europe if they do not share in its liberal and democratic values? Why they stir up riots and violence and push their prohibitions and other parts of islamic law on European non-muslims? You seem to have learned the politically correct phraseology which enables you to accuse people in somethng they did not suggest ("holocaust against Muslims") in order to silence them, as you silenced Theo Van Gogh and now are trying to silence the liberal European press with the clear agenda of pushing more and more of islam on all Europians. Yes, Jews do see it and are trying to warn Europe of consequences, as failure to do in the past so did result in the Holocaust.

they call it popularly judeo-christain now. hollingsworth does the loathsome hollingsworth need "judeo-christain" lessons in grammar? we often find that the haters are quite illiterate.

Well Khalid, happy Ashura. this being the day when the shiites celbrate the death of Mohammed's grandson or uncle, by slef-flagelating before the adoring throngs. This is a day off for the women who will not be beaten that day. the men are too busy beating themselves. And if that is not civilized enough for you, on this holiday Moslems around the world have shown off their love for each other. Twnety-=two shiite self-flagelators killed by a Sunni suicide bomber. Nice. Ten shiites killed in Afghanistan, by their peace loving brothers. And Nasralalalala filled the coliseum in BEirut with his gladiators shredding their skin, in the name of what, Imam Hussein, the grandson of Mohammed? Now that is what is called carrying a grudge eh? Now the question, how is the violence of today, I forgot forty killed in Iraq, how is this violence connected to the Palestinian issue.

Don't make any mistake. Both the extreme Right and Left are implacable enemies of the Jewish people. The Nazis associated the Jews with a Bolshevik conspiracy to take over the world. The Communists associated Jews with capitalist exploiters. Karl Marx, a secular Lutheran of Jewish origin, used Judaism and capitalism synonimously. He referred to Judaism as "huckstering, money, egoism", and "money is the jealous God of Israel before which no other god may exist..His God is only the illusory bill of exchange." Marx claimed anti-Semitism is in fact anti-Capitalism. He used classical anti-Semitic diatribes against rival Jewish philosophers: "dirty-Jewish manifestation" and about the immense Jewish community in Poland "they multiplied like lice". He accused Jews of being involved in "couter-revolutionary movements" everywhere. As for the extreme Left nowadays, they make the best apologists for radical militant Islam money could ever buy.

there's no question that the islamic world hasn't dealt with islamic fundamentalism. there's no question that the islamic world needs to go through an age of enlightment. however, the janes of this world support bibi netanyahu, who has aligned himslef with israeli messianic jewish parties, which are extremely dangerous and medieval. those parties have a violent, racist, perpetual, mass population expulsion type of an agenda, and would be very deadly if allowed anywhere near political power. supporting the likud/aipac agenda and then making comments about the danger, a very clear and present one, of islamic fundamentalism is very hypocritic.

And how would you go about that? deny freedom of the press? burn cars (if you are in france), blow up statues of other religions (in Israel and the Budist statues in Pakistan)? Sullican may have ignored history, but the rest of us didnt. From the crusades thru the Ottoman Empire, Islam has been on the move - convert or be killed. Pandering to them is the Sullivan disease. Neither Israel nor the West is responsible for the Islamonazis that exist. Most arabs countries have oil and wealth (like Saudi Arabia) yet STILL produce maniacs (wahabism). Now that the arabs mobs are buring Europe - maybe Europe will wake up and realize thier mistake with dealing with Islam.

All the worlds major terrorist acts and conflicts are caused by the perversion of Islam by maniacs - ie Radical Islam. Sullivan, Dutch ect cant defend it except somehow link it to Israel. Whether its the arabs in the Sudan, in Pakistan, in the Phillipines, in Israel, in Yemen , in Bosnia, in Chechniya - its always radical Islam causing trouble. Theres no hatred here - its just truth. Come on Haaretz - I dare you to 1) print those arab cartoons - after all you arent shy about slamming Israel and religious Jews 2) do a front page story on the above mentioned conflicts and whos causing them. Of course you wont - Hass will just write another tree article and pass it off as reality. Rerality is - we Jews have been warning the world for 25+ years that Islam is the new enemy of the world (used to be communism). Its time to act!

is threatened and we have to take undemocratic steps,then so be it. The far right of any group is interested in self interest mostly they may play within the rules but when they step out the defence of democracy should stand tall. Also even allowing insensitive cartoons should get a rebuke from the democratic government according to the level of the situation. We all have to stand tall against extremes that challenge democracy and reason,for IMO it is the best system so far.

If I decided to live in a Moslem country then I would have to follow the RESTRICTIVE FREEDOM LAWS of that country. If a moslem comes to live in a non-moslem country with NON RESTRICTED FREEDOM LAWS then that person has every right to speak out and protest BUT the freedom does not allow for destruction of property that does not belong to them.

Christian Europe fought and defeated the Mulsim hoardes on several occasions. They defeated them at the great battle of Lepanto in 1572(?) while the Pope said the Rosary at St. Peters. Isabella of Spain drove them out of that country after a 700 year occupation. The Muslim armies were forced back at the gates of Vienna a century or so later. But Europe is no longer Christian. Christendom in Europe has already been defeated (temporarily) by Godless liberalsim. They call it popularly "judeo-Christian" now. The Mulsim hoardes have simply moved in to pick up the remaining dregs without a shot being fired and without a throat being slit. But, be assured, Christ the King will rule over all of Europe one day soon.

Shredding parties and burning of books and prevention of missionaries - you are thinking of Saudia Arabia and every other Muslim country; including the relatively liberal Turkey - where a priest was recently killed, who in the past has oh my god, been accused of being a missionary.

Filip Dewinter has gone out of his way to show that he is pro Belgian rather than anti-immigrant. The fact that he leads the opinions polls for Mayor of Antwerp and his party has the strongest showing of any party and yet the Muslims are not afraid to protest, as they will this weekend, shows that he is not a manic Nazi at all. In fact Dewinter is just saying what most Antwerpians think. We are slowly becoming hostages to the sensibilities of our Muslim guests and we don't like it. We did not spend generations building a tolerant and free society to have it trampled by people with different values who seem intent on forcing them down our throats. Branding everyone who complains about immigrant misbehaviour a Nazi is just as threatening to the absolute right of free speech as denying our papers the right to print some infantile cartoons because newcomers living off our social security system do not like them.

As each day passes political correctness makes way for the ONLY soltion to eternal peace in Israel (and the world). Biblical correctness!

For Europe to recognize the problem it must first remove its blinkers. The current world-wide Muslim burning and killing over a cartoon derives from Islamic intellectual fear that interfacing will surely mean having to confront many baseless claims taught in the Madrassas. If Muslims can't handle a cartoon, how can they deal with the sole documented Abrahamic religion before Mohammed - Torah? Or that deriving sharia by perverting the Torah of Jews around him demonstrates that Mohammed was a false prophet? Or that others satirize "Protocols" (http://www.netzarim.co.il/Shared/Protocols-of-Learned-Sheikhs-of-Jihad.htm)? Truth and free speech, not political correctness, must be defended. Nevertheless, cartoons can expose the terrorism endemic in Islam without incurring Muslim charges of idolatry (see www.netzarim.co.il/ConvCtr/ConvCtr.htm#Cartoon). Paqid 16, The Netzarim Israeli Orthodox Jew www.netzarim.co.il Ra'anana, Israel

The European mainstream, silenced & neutered by PC, has allowed Nazis to become defenders of Europe reeling under Islamist attacks. Islam isn't a real religion: it's a military ideology of aggressive, genocidal imperialism. We must declare a Crusade and fight it until it's vanquished; otherwise it'll drag us all into a New Dark Age.

first we had potobac andy murray and stephen murray who provided excuses for their jew hatred.that species has now morphed into something more evil the sub-species hollingsworth and john.they hate the jewish people and are out front with their disgusting hatred.

Khalid In two post you managed to name some examples of things you find objectionable. In post 51 mix up facts with fiction. Im assuming you simply are unaware of the fact that no water was ever posioned. Many trees, many houses and many peaple have died during this unfortunate confict. And "the starving of people" was commited by crimnals who stole all money set aside for alleviating that problem. In post 52 once again it possible that you are misinformed: With regards to the Talumd its discussion is beyond parameter of this form needless to say I would image you would feel the same way about the Koran. As for banning misionary work in Israel you may not be aware of the fact Jews in the past have been subject in the past to forced conversions by both Muslim and Christion missionarys. In light of that historical fact Israel has banned it. I will point out though unlike many other countries in the region Israel does not press its majority religion on its citizens. e

john i would have thought the racists were the dutch who did not think the lives of moslems in srebrinicia worth fighting for.they in fact colluded with the serbs in classifying the prisoners. indeed a week after the massacre dutch ministers were present at serb celebrations in the country.

You are flogging a dead horse. As proven in the territories of Judea, Samaria and Gaza. over 70% of the Arabs are not moderate and as the joke goes of the 30% most did not bother to vote so based on these numbers I would venture a guess that well over 85% are radical or at least their synmphatizers. I know that the left will dispute my assertions but I cannot see how they can dispute the numbers. These numbers will increase and not decrease and not just in old Palestine but also in Egypt, IRAQ and Jordan and Syria.It not nipped in the bud NOW, expect a major war in 2-3 years time.

I am inclined to agree with anyone who takes a comprehensive approach to issues, and, in so far as you do that, I am inclined to agree with your general commentary. I appreciate the fact that you raised the economic issue (scarce resources) as a significant underlying factor. And, while the strictly ideological factors are accidental - now it's the "West"("freedom") versus "radical Islam," in contrast to the Cold War that pitted capitalism versus communism - they are still important since they serve as easy agit/prop motivations by which the passions of people who "choose" to be on one or the other side of the scrimmage line are stirred up.

The historical relationship between Christian Europe and the Muslim world has been an adverserial one. Both religions for most of their history, were aligned with political power church/state, mosque/state. Christians have lived for centuries with Jews in their midst, but Jews had no political power and were completely dependent on the whims of the king and the church. Muslims did not have communities in most parts of Christian Europe until recent decades. Further, European colonialism in the Arab Muslim world deeply affected this unequal relationship. There is little precedent for developing a relationship between a post-Enlightenment Europe and a Muslim population that defines itself largely by a religion which sees itself as superiour to European secular values. A way must be found both in order to defeat Islamaphobia and Muslim isolation and fundamentalism.

...freedom of speech effectively ends. The malaise of political correctness has spread over the Western World from the US where hysterical feminists and militant pederasts had highjacked the mainstream media and influential positions thanks to the highly educated degenerate elite that dictates what is correct and what is not. The Bible has the following injuction for all of us: You shall not follow the multitude to do what is evil in your sight. And that means: if you believe you're right then behave and act accordingly.

Jane, I know its a good pitch to believe that is the motive of this 'war on terror', but unfortunately the reality and the history is different. The West (and the Soviets) encouraged dictatorships so that they fight their war by proxy and guarantee their resources...this list was headed by the US, USSR, France and England. This helped to radicalise Islam in a way that up until then it had never been. Radical Isalm, emboldend through its successes in Afganistan, then evolved into the more militant stream we have today. The US correctly identified militant, radical Isalm as a prime threat BUT the objectives of the war in Iraq and the increased attention on the region are not to moderatise Islam, rather - much as during the cold war - it is the securing of the region and its resources in the light of a new, looming realignment of the qeopolitical reality - driven primarily by the growth of China. And thus we lead ourselves down the same road that intiated the radicalisation of Isl

Meanwhile, the greatest promoters of anti-Semitism today is the Islamic world.

The writer is clearly saying to the established politicians in power that there is a growing resentment within Flanders/Belgium to the Moslem population and unless this resentment is addressed it can and will lead to the rise of a possible neo-nazis political party taking power.

Obviously, the Flemish leader is correct in his understanding of what Muslims will demand once they have more power. As the European population continues to age and decrease, and the Muslim population becomes ever younger and larger, Europeans will find that the problem will become only worse. Then, perhaps they will start imitating the Israelis, whose responses to Palestinian terrorism they always ignorantly condemned.

Khalid although you make a strong point regarding far right philosophy I think you may have missed the obvious historical differences between the jews behavior before WWII and the Muslims current behavior in Europe. Jews never demanded anything of there hosts except the right to live in peace which in almost all cases was periodically revoked. Muslims are neither demanding freedom from persecution nor begging for protection from harm. They are asking and often violently the European hosts to change their ways so as to not offend their sensibilities. In addition if anything the current wave of Islamic Funamentalism is analogous to fascism in almost every way. The movement seeks to violently spread its teachings, wipe out its enemies, control all areas where its adherents are located and most importantly do all these things in a systematically controlled way. With the end goal spreading islamic sharia throughout the globe. Respectfully, e

Talk about a Freudian slip - I meant heritage not heritic in my previous post. Now on to Dewinter et al. The crowning achievement of the Marshall Plan was its success in fostering a strong democratic base in Western Europe, and it is my opinion that this base is strong enough to withstand the mass insecurity that swept post-WWI Europe and led to the the Nazi's. However, it must be understood that there will be always be moron's like Dewinter whose insecurities will be assuaged through the attention created by such idiotic statements as those quoted. The list of radical rightwing extremists encompasses almost every democracy and religion in the world...what I am somewhat puzzled by in light of this article is the mixed messages we get from some of the more radical posters here. Is Europe Eurabia or not? Is it good that Europe (in light if its history) demilitarised or not? Is Europe inherently anti-Semitic (Arabic and Jewish) or simply anti-Immigrant?

"Israel`s Arab/muslim minority fares far better than the Arab/muslim minorities in Europe. This is backed up by all sociological data such as life expectancy, education levels, etc." Please provide your source for this statement ie what is the quantifiable difference between an Israeli Arab's life expectancy and education and a French Arab's. The reason I ask is that I have heard this excuse used in a different manner before ie "Israel's horrific abuse of all Palestinians in the Occupied territories and its racism towards the Israeli Arab minority is justified because they are better off than some other Arabs". NOw you are claiming that Israeli Arabs are better off than European Arabs. And quite frankly I want proof of these claims. So many Israelis seem incapable of accepting the racism that lies at the country's heart that I tend to be suspicious when an Israeli says "we treat Arabs decently"

Khalid's total distortion of what I wrote, his inability to respond to anyone without vicious name-calling illustrate what the world is facing in facing radical Islam i.e. serious cognitive disturbances, irrational thought. I did not and do not advocate 'exterminating' anyone. I advocate respect and consideration of others including those one intellectually opposes.

In Holland we see already the young generation of Muslims behaving in a far more integrated way: young Moroccan couples now have in average 2,5 children, almost just like young Dutch couples, whereas the previous generation of Dutch Moroccans had 5,5 children per couple. Young Moroccans are becoming successful writers, artists and politicians. Building fences, punishing harder and deporting won?t help. Despite four decades of total neglect, the integration of Mediterranean immigrants went actually quite smooth. The terrorist individuals and some of the imams are antagonizing the countries they live in only because they see their brothers and sisters becoming more European, less Muslim like they were used to. Trying to turn the clock backwards is impossible for the Muslim fundamentalists. In the end most Muslims in Europe want to have a bourgeois life with a dog and a cat and a mortgage. You cannot stop it. So let's stop focusing on the extremist fringe.

The solution for the problem of the badly integrated, poor Muslim and non-Muslim immigrant community is the state organized integration (NOT assimilation) into Europe?s society: education, education, education. Starting with teaching all immigrant the language of their new fatherland. Secondly not to accept unemployment among new immigrants: either you have a job or you skill yourself into a job. Third, criminal behavior of new immigrants (often unemployed, poor) should be dealt with effectively. This doesn?t mean harder punishment, but affordable child care, obligatory family managers (often immigrant children are left alone in the street of the big city to play, aren?t supported to do home work, often have parents who themselves don?t know how to read or write in the local language, etc) The fourth essential action is the education of the European people to stop being afraid of Muslims and immigrants, to stop the implicit and explicit racism towards new immigrants.

The European Muslims everyone's talking about did not walk in yesterday. The amount of political incorrectness that would be required to legislate to exclude naturalised citizens would also end democracy as we know it. When immigrants walk into a country not only do they have to adjust, so does the country. Complicated - no easy solutions. Both immigrant and country need to be prepared to work at it.

The issue surrounding the lack integration of immigrant communities (wherever they come from)is, in my opinion, tied to the lack of unifying vision or ideal that can be sold to all new immigrants regardless of their ethnic or religious heretic. Europe tends to think that its cultural heritage alone is enough to inspire integration, when unfortunately it is not. It might be useful to look at the US, which is as divided as Europe when you drive through towns, but still manages to sell the rag to riches - read dollar - story as a unifying concept - a concept that is believed, for the most part, despite the wealth of evidence to suggest the reality is otherwise. My point is, Islam can indeed adapt to foreign cultural environment it just needs the right incentive, and at the moment the EU is struggling to define that incentive.

This you are not gonna like: Where have been the Israelis, where are the Isaelis today that are demonstrating in the streets against the occupation? The ones that do demonstrate for the sake of a moral society are made enemies of the State, although they are the real patriots. One side always sees only the extremists on the other side because they are the loudest and cause all the balagan. By the way look at Denmark where now Muslims and Non-Muslims are closer than ever. Muslims in Denmark indeed don't understand what's happening in Libanon, Syria etc. They condemn what's happening there. But that's hard to find in the media in Israel because it doesn't fit in the picture.

"Khaled (50) How civilized are the Muslims treating each other?" Otto, we have had an election here, and no body got hurt or injured. There are problems in Iraq and else wehre because Muslims are a nationa under attack from the US and Israel. When You are under attack, you don't and when you go through tribulations, things happen. But I would like to remind you that in the past century alone, You Germans and Europeans killed a hundred million people of your own people..Was that a manifestation of Christian savagery? Islam is inherently civilized and moderate. Your problem is that you don't make a distinction between what relgion says and what some followers do? Did IRA, KKK, Gestapo, etc. represent Christiantiy?

Nazis like Hitler & crowd did tell the Germans before World War II (so from 1933 to 1938) over quite some years to boycott the jewish products. In the end, the jewish people had not even rights anymore, and they were brutally tortured, starved to death or gazed in one of the few hundred concentration camps ! In our days (2006) the Fanatics of Islam want to boycott Danish products and European products. Isn?t this a bit similar to the Hitler times ? Doesn?t this make ring a bell to the World ? Fanatics want to impose their own views, their own sharia to Europe, the rest of the World and they want to destroy Israel and the rest of the Western World. They want to dominate this World, not more and not less. But?.since the islamic fanatics don?t read the Bible and don?t know GOD anyways?.they do miss the best story, which is yet to come and which is at the point to develop further ? : the coming back of GOD himself ! So?you may dominate one day this World, you may oppress women, europeans, jews, americans and whoever, but I promise all the human beings who live on this planet one thing : when GOD will come back, he will put an end to the islamic fanatics oppression and domination ! Since they are against the house of Israel?they are as well against the house of GOD, because Israel is the country which GOD has chosen. Israelis as GOD?s chosen people and GOD will not let them down.

Well done Jordan for a sensible exposition and your clear thinking.I would sujest to all who have so far participated in these responses,to reread many times Jordans response. Too much uninformed oppinions goes around here.How true it is that ignorance can be ever so destructive!

Of course Moderate Islam is the solution just as moderate Judaism and moderate christianity and moderate nationalism are the solution. In fact Islam itself is inherently moderate. It accepts other religions. It recognizes thoughtful differences, and it calls for international brotehrhood and cooperation. "We have made you a moderate nation, so that you can be witnesses upon mankind, and so that the messenger will be a witness upon you." This is the Quran. However, many people can't be moderate under duress. Moderation needs mental equanimity. But Muslims are a nation under attack.

A mideavil religion, whose growth is exponential because the average European has 2.5 children and the Muslim 6. In a democracy the vote will prevail and the numbers are inevitable. Europe cannot survive as Europe. The solutions are unthinkable. Can one imagine a mass expulsion of millions of Muslims, probably not, but as sure as the Egyptian envoy was kidnapped in Gaza the Muslims of Europe will do the unthinkable. Islam cannot be stopped with reason. The biological imperative is counter to reason. It is the religion of naturalism threatening the religion of rationalism. A society based on God threatening a society based on 'inlightened' reasoning.

"I also think that the UK is becoming much less tolerant within educated circles." Less tolerant towards whom? I don't understand, really. Do you mean towards Jews, as in leftist circles, or towards Muslims?

Since the Dane's cartoon has brought enormous attention to the problem, perhaps Europe will now join the United States in the war.Radical Islam must be defeated as were its predecessors Nazism, Facism, and Communism and moderate Islam must flourish to put an end to their murderous rampage. Without these 2 elements working together the radicals will continue to riot, terrorize, and murder innocent citizens all over the world. They have no rules other than the ones that tell them to kill infidels and spread Sharia through violent means.That is their mandate and our mandate is to make sure they don't succeed.

"Moreover, within the past 100 years, traditionally passive Judiasm has begun to show a propensity towards violence as well (esp with the emergence of religious Zionism)." I'm not one to defend fanatic violence on the part of Orthodox Zionism, but as for an increase in Jewish violence in general, there are historical reasons for it. From the beginning of Zionist settlement in Palestine, Jews were attacked by Arabs and had to form militias for their defense. I hope you are not condemniong the brave Jews who, during the Holocaust, fought off the Germans (such as the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising or the Treblinka Death Camp Rising); or those Jews who fought the Germans as partisans. And ever since the rise of the modern State of Israel, it has been suvjected to attacks by its Arab "neighbors". so there are good reasons for most of this violence, and only small extremist groups, such as the Irgun and Stern Gang before the State, and Orthodox Zionists since 1967, have used violence unjustly

What always amazes me about the discussions on the Talkback page is the obsession on the parts of some people to claim (like the Nazi's did about the Jews) that Islam is the greastest threat to our Western civilisation. That is quite simply not the case. Climate change will destroy the earth far sooner than Islam. That's never mentioned - it's far easier to blame the Muslim bogeyman than to blame ourselves (Western Europe; NOrth America; China; India; Asia) for our addiction to Middle Eastern oil to fund our unsustainable lifestyles - lifestyles not shared by most of the world. So don't worry Israel. Your enemy is not Islam. Your enemy is the Western lifestyle ie your addiction to oil. Climate change is a far greater threat than Islam. What a pity demonisation of Islam is allowed to hide this reality.

I've seen him on Belgian TV. A smoothie business graduate type who is a lot smarter than his interviewers. The only reason he is not yet in power is the wobbly coalition that together only just outnumbers VB in Antwerp. The number of people vote for him grows at each election and the extent to which gluing dribs and drabs can keep his majority party out of Antwerp local government is limited and wearing out.

As each day passes Israel is receeding from political solution and proceeding to a Biblical solution- the only soltion to eternal peace in Eretz Yisrael (and the world) Moshiach Now!

After the Arab Muslims in Sudan got tired of slaughtering Christian and Animist blacks in the South, they turned to slaughtering Muslim blacks in Darfur. International pressure dropped. Even larger is the oft ignored Iran-Iraq war. More than a million Muslims died in that conflict. It included Iraq using WMDs. Even worse, it featured Iran using its own children in a disgusting way. It gave Iranian children passages from the Koran and then sent them, unarmed, through mine fields to clear mines for the troops. This is the way they treat their own. Why should anyone be surprised at the way they treat Jews and Christians?

To quote Daniel Pipes, "Radical Islam is the problem.Moderate Islam is the solution." This is not a question of political correctness and not one of racism or Islamophobia as some have said.It is a problem that Islam must deal with within itself. Most Muslims in Europe and everywhere else are not radical Islamists.Some say the radicals amount to no more than 20%.That 20% is doing all it can to bring the world down on themselves and all the rest.They want a confrontation with the West because they believe in the worldwide jihad to conquer the infidel and create a new caliphate.The moderate Muslims live in Islamist supporting dictatorships where despotic regimes prevent them from exercising free speech or other tools that could help them defeat the radicals among them.The West has been awakened to this threat and now must defend itself from terror attacks while encouraging the moderates to overcome the radicals.This is the essence of the war on radical Islam that the US is fighting.

The problem is that we all talk about "democratized Islam," but they don't. I, too, knew enlightened and peaceful Muslims back in the US. However, they do not speak out. Where where the European and US Muslim protests against the Taliban, suicide bombings in Israel, bombings of US embassies in Africa, and the attacks in Madrid and London? When the small group of "moderates" remains quiet so as to not anger their fundamentalist brethren, they are not acting democratically. Only when we see large numbers of Muslims peacefully demonstrating against Muslim fundamentalists can anyone reasonably discuss a supposed Muslim majority that wants change.

Dilip, You mention in one of your posts the situation of Israeli Arabs. Whilst I acknowledge there is much progress to be made, Israel's Arab/muslim minority fares far better than the Arab/muslim minorities in Europe. This is backed up by all sociological data such as life expectancy, education levels, etc. So Europeans really have no business telling Israel how to treat minorities because Europe's track record with minority groups is quite frankly appalling both absolutely and relative to Israel's record As for the article, I have to say I am troubled by parallels between anti-semitism and islamophobia. Personally, I hink the idea of Europe as some tolerant paradise is utter crap. There is no authentic tolerance of minorities- whether we are talking religious minorities or cultural minorities, rather there is a legal framework which represents the attitudes of the minority who created the law. I also think that the UK is becoming much less tolerant within educated circles.

"And yes, France is now trying precisely what you suggest-antireligious laws and restricted immigration. Wouldn`t it have been better if these immigrants had assimilated without being forced to?" Yes. It would also have been better if there were no Jews in Europe, then there would have been no Holocaust. But, reality's reality. Wishful thinking doesn't change it.

by and large, my values do not clash with those of the French. If they had, I might not have moved here. Of course people should try to adapt to their host country without being forced to by law. It is because Muslims and Africans often haven't(unlike, say,North African Jews or Asians)that there are now problems for these communities. And yes, France is now trying precisely what you suggest-antireligious laws and restricted immigration. Wouldn't it have been better if these immigrants had assimilated without being forced to?

"You missed the fine differences as expressed by the Arabic terms Dar el-Islam (House of Submission) and Dar el-Harb (Dar el-Harb)" No, i didn't. I fully understand their meaning and the Arabic etymology. "Islam is at heart a warlike religion (as it history shows), no matter how apologists try to explain away the term jihad." Basically, i agree. Of course, there are sects more inclined towards inward contemplation and so forth, but the Islam of the powerful elite has often been one of violent conquest. My point is that, until recently, the same could be said of Christianity. That's all. Moreover, within the past 100 years, traditionally passive Judiasm has begun to show a propensity towards violence as well (esp with the emergence of religious Zionism). Similar cases can be found of other religions around the globe, over various periods of time.

I want to warn about demonizing the muslims who live in Europe. A lot of them adopted rather well to society, this majority isn't a problem and therefore is not heard of that much. A prolem are the typ of people who are not willing to integrate at all. I am refering at the ironic situation last week when 200 Muslims were demonstrating in London shouting anti -Britain slogans and "We f...on the freedom of speach". The very freedom that made it possible for them to express their feelings. These people who disrespect the freedom that they enjoy in Europe should indeed pack their things and go. But again lets not forget about the big part that leaves problemetic partiachic family structures behind and indeed lives a democratic Islam.

Dear Khalid, what are you talking about? I guess you are talking about the fight between Islamic Dschihad against Fatah? Or the fight between Hamas and Fatah? Or do you mean the fight between Sunnites and Schiites? Or maybe the struggle between Alevites and Kurds? How civilized are the Muslims treating each other?

"Jordan, you say "Israelis" but what do you mean by that?" In the example i gave, i was implying the common Jewish interpretation of the word, which is usually a nationalist, Jewish liberal democrat =) I completely agree with you that different groups of course attempt to define their nationality on their own terms. "Nina is right when she says that when you live in a country you also have to bring some willingness to adopt. But there has to be also the willingness of the society to accept you. So it is the question of how to come up with a framework that fits for everybody." Precisely... im glad we agree. See my more recent posts.

"Although its terminology is less transparent, Christianity holds the same goal...That is the essence of a proselytizing religion" You missed the fine differences as expressed by the Arabic terms Dar el-Islam (House of Submission) and Dar el-Harb (Dar el-Harb). Islam consists in submission to the will of Allah, and. though this can be achieved through peaceful proselytization, it more likely than not has been achieved by war and conquest. Therefore, the non-Muslim part of the world is entitled House of War. Islam is at heart a warlike religion (as it history shows), no matter how apologists try to explain away the term jihad.

Movements historically endangering the world: 13th Century; Ghengis Khan and the Mongol hordes. 19th Century; Napoleon and the French revolutionaries. 20th Century; Hitler and the Nazis and Stalin and the Communists. 21st Century; Ahmadinejad and the Iranian revolutionaries and Islamist extremists and fellow travellers. Call a spade a spade!

First of all I would like to correct myself, I was wrong by indirectly calling Muslims an ethnic group, they are of course a religious group not an ethnic group. I am sorry for this political correctness :) Jordan, you say "Israelis" but what do you mean by that? When most jewish Israelis talk about "Israelis" they mean jewish Israelis and exclude all others who live in Israel. The problem lies in defining what is to be an Israeli, a European etc. Do you have to be jewish to be a real Israeli, can it be that you were born into Israel but you will nether be a real Israeli. Can it be that you were born into France but you will nether realy be a French? Nina is right when she says that when you live in a country you also have to bring some willingness to adopt. But there has to be also the willingness of the society to accept you. So it is the question of how to come up with a framework that fits for everybody.

Poor choice of word on my part. I meant broaching the problem in general, not a redress for any one particular side, or group. How about ... "with no official treatment" ... better?

is not a clear condemnation. The whole article does nothing to explain where VB comes from or the means it uses to incite. The principal chip on VB's shoulder is not so much Jews (then) or Moslems (now) - who just conveniently serve to bolster their ever-present sense of siege - but the until-recent French domination of Flemish culture (and pocket). Their aim is secession from Belgium, a country called Vlaanderen with a Dutch-speaking Brussels as its capital. Their means include wide distribution of repugnant Sturmer-style junk-mail, replete with - you've guessed it! - racist cartoons. The fact that no-one has burned down VB headquarters or harmed their members actually testifies to extreme restraint on the part of immigrants in Belgium, who receive it in their mailboxes regularly too.

On most counts I agree with you. There are, obviously, differences in the Jewish and Muslims cases in Europe (Islam is a proselytizing religion, and there is already a long history of mutual violence between Christian and Muslim socieites. Judaism is a closed religion, and until after the holocaust, was 'state'less, etc)... however, as we have both argued, the problem is nonetheless very much internal and, i would say, entirely human. If you are interested, please have a look at my other posts and let me know what you think.

A curiosity: you'd suppose that so-called Islamo-Fascism and a Belgian nut-job could be buddies. Now, add the Lebanese Phalange into the mix and... :-) Could Phalangists qualify as Christo-Fascists, one wonders? Ah, look what comes when labelling goes crazy. The 'debate' in Europe, such as it is, has as its focus the topic of illegal immigration. It is not entirely clear that a majority of illegal immigrants are Muslim. Perhaps Mr Schwartz would do well to worry less about blackening Europeans generally and a bit more about concentrating on Israeli attitudes about Israeli Arabs. Not to mention Israeli attitudes to Gastarbeiter. Europe today, Israel say 20 years from now. How can Israel manage the influx of non-Jews and still hope for a Jewish majority in a Jewish state? On current form, not so great, eh? Ask not for whom the bell tolls.. :-)

"If you choose to emigrate to a country, better check its values and be sure you can handle them(women`s rights,free speech,monogamy etc)before you go!" Ideally, yes. However, in many cases, emmigrants from Muslim countries feel pressured to leave their home countries for economic - or political -reasons. The choice of adopted country is often a luxury they cannot afford. Moreover, once arrived, if the immigrants are not bound by law to 'accept' their new countries cultural values, why should they do so? Would you? Since Europe NEEDS immigrants to solve its demographic/growth-model crisis, the responsibility lies with European host countries to ensure that the correct mechanisms are in place to preserve stability once the new labourers arrive. Therefore, I think it is more apt to say that "if you decide to let new immigrants in, better be sure you society is equipped to handle their different values." This can be done through immigrant screening and/or anti-religious legislation

You are making way too much sense for some of the other posters. Your next post should be accompanied by aspirin to assuage the headaches you are inflicting on them.

"Let`s defend Judeo-Christian civilization" this is hypcrisy. Israel determinedly fights Christian influence at all levels: here are some examples: Israel for 58 years has refused the Christian inhaibtants of Ikret and Bir'em from returning to their villages, despite a High Court ruling to that effect. Israel has banned missionaries, and any missionary caught preaching is arrested or deported. A few years ago, some Israeli religious parties had new-testament shredding parites. and in the religous field, the rabbinic authorities have reincorporated the Talmudic ommissions, known as Hesronot Shas, back into the Talmud. Needless to say, the text is considered the most vehemently anti-christian literature in Judaism. So Nehama, humble yourself. We are living in the 21st century..and people have access to knowledge...you can't hid the truth.

You say I am not qualified to join the "civilized world." Do I need to remind you that German 60 years ago was one of the world's most "civilized countries?" Peter, your tongue functions much more swiftly than your mind does. Besides, what is so civilized about bombing crowded streets, cutting poor people's olive trees, poisoning their water supplies, and stealing their land in boraday light? What is so civilized about tormenting an entire people and narrowing thier horizons in the name of Jewish nationalism? What is so civilized about bombing and destroying and starving other peoples and nations based on lies and canards? I certainly don't agree with you on the meaning of civility.

-"The local pub closed down and was replaced by a shwarma stand."- 'Off with their heads, off with their heads cried the queen. Alice looked on as ......"

They might be sick of using scarce resources to hunt terrorists. Apparently the French do not like their cars set alight.

As a foreign Jew living in France, the question of how much to assimilate often comes up for me. Everybody wants to keep their own culture, true, but if I immigrate to another country, then if it comes to a crunch, it is up to me to adapt, if I cannot compromise. The French didn't ask me to come. If I am completely unwilling to adapt, I should stay home. I ask for Jewish holidays off from work and volunteer for X-mas. My kids go to school the day of the X-mas party and when it's Hanukkah, bring sevivonim and jelly doughnuts"to share our holiday with our friends as they share theirs with us". When they colour X-mas cards in school, mine make chanukiot. If you choose to emigrate to a country, better check its values and be sure you can handle them(women's rights,free speech,monogamy etc)before you go!

opinions. I know you can't understand that.However it is a prerequisite to joining the civilised world,so try. Again so even YOU can understand.Anybody can publish a properly researched and documented article on the Holocaust anywhere. If you want to write garbage well there are plenty of Arab media available.Heard the one about Jews drinking Christian blood.?

Shalom Freedman is entirely correct. Fundamentalism, be it Christian, jewish or Isalmic is FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED! It precludes dialogue. It seeks only to propagate itself at any cost. It is to be less than an animal,thinking only with its blood. NO CONSCIENCE, NO HEART, NO MIND.

What you unfortunately did not mention, is that Dewinter has (as yet) no real power. Yes, his party is the largest in Flanders, but it is not a part of the current government nor of any town councils. There is a general ban on the party and few people do business with them. In any way possible, the Belgian government tries to prevent Dewinter's party from gaining any real power. He is not interviewed on TV or in the press. And a good thing too. Dewinter is not only infamous for his anti-islamic expressions, but he is also, indeed, a notorious anti-semist who has no problems to question the reality of the Shoah, or who shamelessly inhibites the rights of minorities and women. Filip Dewinter is a dangerous warmonger who sees everything in black-and-white and absolutely does not contribute to a constructive dialogue between the different religions in Belgium and Europe.

jordan, redress is offered to a victimized party, hardly the case with the islamic hoards.Is not the violence a plague?? And just from whom is it being initiated?? In the name of ALLAH, the radical is leading the DOCILE 7th century hoard to world domination. Your words about preserving instinctual preferences won't hold much ground in the flood of rage that is being unleashed in the name of a "peacefull" religion.

Dewinter is a non-Jewish Belgian and his party/views has considerable support among the non-Jewish Belgian electorate. Fortuyn was a non-Jewish Dutch citizen and his party/views has considerable support among the non-Jewish Dutch electorate. Le Pen is a non-Jewish French citizen and his party/views has considerable support among the non-Jewish French electorate. Aso., aso., aso. Instead of speculating on what Dewinter would be or do if he were Jewish, look at what a substantial number of your non-Jewish Europeans brothers & sisters have done and still actually are. Nothing to write home about.

Stop quoting this populist who uses the Belgian Jewish population to further his own goals.

In 1932 the Dutch zionist leader Frits Bernstein wrote that it was useless to refute the antisemitic accusations. He concluded that Jews were unable to influence the attitude from the majority towards them. He thought impeccable behaviour could not save the Jews, because the real cause for the discrimination was lying inside the anti-Semite himself. Today muslims are facing the same problem in Europe.

You're both horribly wrong. Most of the worlds conflicts, past, present, and future, can be traced back to the inter-relation between resource scarcity, and kinship alleigance. This applies to all groups, in all locations, not just Islamic fundamentalists, not just Palestinians, and not just 'Judeo-Christian' civilization. Prove me wrong.

It is just silly to believe that muslims can live in a democratic society and accept the rules of the democratic game, such as respect for the other minorities. Just name one really democratic countries where minorities are treated well and respect. just name one muslim country where women and sexual minorities are treated like human being. Just name one muslim countries where believers of other religions have the freedom of preaching, and practise their religions openly and without fear. Just name one muslim countries where you have freedom of speech and advanced technology and science... and it goes on and on... Islam is not a tolerante religion. This is not a peaciful religion and everywhere you have muslims and they become a majority the result is the death of freedom and liberty... I am glad that the political correctness is about to die in Europe, because if we do not expose what is real islam and their agenda, it will be the end of civilization as we know it.

The EU should pass a law throughout Europe making it illegal to have Sharia law in the EU. Sooner or later, somewhere, they will try to use Democracy against us, even if it's in a small area to start with, and this will be the only legal defense. They are already trying it here in Australia.

"Muslims want to preserve their culture and they don`t really want to mix. In these points they are not any different to other ethnic groups." Precisely. Now subsitute the word 'Muslims' with 'Europeans' or 'Israelis' and, voila, herein lies the problem. The question is how to contain this preservation instinct - which everyone has to some degree - while minimizing bloodshed. Leaving this problem to fester in Europe, with no official redress, is likely a poor strategy. Do you agree? Why or why not?

you wrote "`Islamic fundamentalism` is the world`s number one problem" In the 1930s, the Nazis and Hitler in his book Mein Kampf claimed that "Jews is the world's number one problem." And the result was the holocaust. Now, you are saying that Islam is the world's number one problem. This means that You advocate the extermination of Muslims...since they make a problem? So what can we deduce from this? As for the real proble in this wrold, it is the Israeli occupation of Palestine. This is the root cause of all trouble, it is the cause of all tension, and of all wars, and of all bloodshed. And it will continue as long as Israel doesn't return the stolen goods and give the Palestinian people their dignity and freedom.

Schwartz's article is very clear in its condemnation of Dewinter and his party. Dewinter is nobody's friend, especially not Jews or Muslims. Why are people finding it so hard to understand this article?!

No problem, apology accepted =) Unfortunately, i think you still misunderstand my argument, and are agreeing with me for the wrong reasons. I also, of course, think than pushing any belief system through violence is, ideally, to be avoided. We do agree there. My point, however, runs deeper than that. It's that in most Muslim societies, religion is still a public affair. In Europe and North America, however, (at least officially) religion is a strictly private matter. (Israel, for that matter, is floating indecisively somewhere inbetween.) However, i am also highlighting western hypocrisy by arguing that what we find offensive about 'Muslims in our midst', is that they are VISIBLE minorities. They don't dress and act 'enough like us', and we somehow find that distrubing. Europeans like multiculturalism in theory, but only so long as they remain the clear majority, and only so long as the other cultures choose to assimilate themselves into the mother-culture. Nationalism's legacy.

Free Palestine from Judeofascism.

Everytime someone says to me "zionism is not racism" I say you should see the entries in Talkback on Haaretz. Maybe zionism isn't racism, but some (a lot of) zionists certainly are.

Schwartz is quoting a neo-nazi for half a page before even explaining (only halfhearted) that this guy is actually dangerous. The title "Enough political correctness" is the opinion of Schwartzer as of Dewinter. From the arguements it wouldn't be hard to draw a ligne to the 30's were an ethnic entity in Europe just didn't really fit into society. Muslims want to preserve their culture and they don't really want to mix. In these points they are not any different to other ethnic groups. Saying that growing numbers of muslims living in Europe cause a threat to European society is like saying in retrospective that Jews used to be a threat to European society. The truth is that societies change constantly, trying to preserve a status quo in culture is unnatural and leads to unhuman solutions. In Israel it is very in to talk about the demographic problem, if there wouldn't be this political correctness we would have deportations again soon. Think about it!

Getting to fire salvos from both port and starboard here... Post#10 is exactly the sort of nonsense that needs to stop. Some facts. Read the Koran: damned little in there about the great global conquest plan. Look at history. Most Islamic expansion was over by 900 a.d. Outside of Africa, I can't think of any significant Islamic conquest since about the sixteenth century. In short, you might as well fear a resurgence of a conquering Spain. You're creating a bogeyman to justify your hate.

Unfortunately the Islamic world has allowed its worse elements to set the tone for its relation to the rest of humanity. This means it has become xenophobic, hate-filled to the extreme, absolutely 'intolerant' of others. The dangers to Mankind as a whole are great indeed. Radical Islam is working to make the world one big old Islamic province. They will not succeed. But their destructive power could put an end to the Western and American dominated world as we know it.

I hit the response button too fast. I then realised that what you were actually saying was that it is time for the Muslims (like Christians etc) to work for their goals using peaceful means NOT violent. The British ruled Palestine with an iron fist but certainly didn't murder like the Crusaders did a thousand years before ... You are so right - dialogue, pursuasion, rhetoric - all legitimate options to try to get the other guy to follow your point of view BUT NO BLOODSHED! ... and again Jordan, my apologies for reacting too fast! A lesson for us all there :)

To say that the piece incites hatred is misleading. The hatred is already there. People are naturally intolerant. You, personally, can strive to be tolerant, etc. To expect that humanity en masse will be tolerant simply because you think it should be is a recipe for disaster. One needs to look at people AS THEY ARE and advocate policies accordingly. To force alien immigrants upon them is just to invite a backlash. To reason otherwise is akin to abolishing the police and courts on the grounds that people should be naturally honest. Well, go for it and see what happens. Right now, we're going for a similarly inane policy -- to let in millions of utterly alien immigrants while simply insisting that historically homogeneous cultures accept them. They won't; they'll do something ugly instead. Better to stop while a relatively graceful exit is still possible. Let Europe slam the gates; a lot worse things have happened.

Khalid, You are so bigoted against Jews that all you see is a title and a "Jewish name" and you already conclude that "Jews are inciting against European Muslims". If you would actually read the article, Schwartz states that "But the solutions Dewinter proposes are extreme, and sometimes even elicit horror." Hardly encitement against European Muslims, rather a caution against extreme measures towards them. Even if the article WAS inciteful, it is equally inciteful to state that "JEWS are inciting against European Muslims" as opposed to "Schwartz is inciting against European Muslims". Several Jews have condemned the Danish cartoons including this paper's editorial.

Of course, no sane person can support extreme right wingers in Europe. Today they are against Muslims, tomorrow against Jews. No sane person can support suppression of freedom of religion, such as ban for hijab, or suppression of human rights on ethnic or religious ground, such as attaching electronic chips to Muslims. However, no sane person would deny, that there is tension and hostility between the West and Islam, also within Europe. It's time to admit, that immigration policies must change. It's bad for Europe, it's bad for Arab world, because the most mobile, most enterprising people move to the West, only to become second grade citizens in a foreign culture. Europe, stop the immigration. Treat those Muslims already at your soil with respect and try to integrate them. Stop stupid laws like ban for hijab. Fight terrorism and stop anti-American and anti-Israeli hysteria. And don't think there are easy solutions to difficult situations, don't be seduced by extremism and demagoguery.

Only the name of the scapegoat changed, the rethoric is the same as before worldwar 2. It has always been that way ever since Jews arrived in Europe. In his 'History of the Jews in Antwerp' Ephraim Schmitz tells us everything about it. Whenever those in power were in need for money, they invented an excuse to execute Jews and confiscate their belongings. Before christianity was the one and only true religion, today 'Western' is the only acceptable religion. Some among us silently wonder what 'western' may be.

Jordan - I didn't say that Muslims used violence. You said that. I wonder why the truth made you so defensive?

Wait a minute here! Wasn't it the great colonial powers of Europe who, in the 19th Century, attempted to impose their European values on the native populations of other "civilisations"? (In the name of progress of course).

Somewhat to my own surprise, I agree with the piece -- for just about the reasons stated. There is an extremely dangerous demonization of Islam going on -- ring a bell? Trying to shove multi-culturalism down people's throats is only going to produce a backlash. Better that Europe should be freely and frankly exclusionary now than that fifty years down the road we get a holocaust. Pun intended.

Know that the party he heads had to change it's name from Vlaams Blok to Vlaams Belang because the Blok was legally banned as a racist party. The Blok is the post-WWII incarnation of the Flemish nationalist party that collaborated with the Nazis and carried out its orders during the occupation. Although Jews who vote VB like to forget this because they feel Dewinter will protect them against Abu Jaja (who hates Jews so much that he does VB's work for it while of course being VB's sworn enemy) and his rampaging hordes, if Dewinter comes to power it's bad news for Jews and make no mistake. The only reason he hasn't yet is because of an unlikely coalition of small parties cobbled together just to keep him out. Shame on Ha'Aretz and Adi Schwarz for not explaining this to readers!

I dont think that Muslims should worry too much about becoming victims of modern day Nazis...To them the holocaust is a myth...why fear a myth?

"The primary goal of Islam is to expand the borders of Dar al-Islam at the expense of Dar al-Harb, and to create a universal Islamic community" Although its terminology is less transparent, Christianity holds the same goal, as do other religions, such as Bahaiism, and even - in principle - Buddhism (save ALL living beings from suffering, etc). That is the essence of a proselytizing religion. And the argument that only Islam uses violence to do so, is empty. (See the inquisition, the crusades, colonialism, etc.) The difference is that Christian civilization has (more or less) recently decided to relegate religion to the private sphere, and (outwardly) value scientific inquiry above blind belief. Most Muslim societies have not (yet?) made that choice. This is the difference. Also, a major issue thast is connected, but often overlooked, is that practicing Muslims are a VISible minority in Europe. They 'infringe' on the European esthetic. Superficial, but true.

Religions have different viewpoints as well as beliefs. Who is right and who is wrong (if indeed it is a matter of right and wrong) will always be subjective. But if one is going to comment, one should at least base one's comments on facts, not on one's own biased assumptions. These are the basic principles of Islam:(check any book on Islam and this will be confirmed) Dar el-Islaam ? House of Submission ? anywhere in the world where Islam reigns supreme. Dar el-Harb ? House of War ? all the rest of the world which is in the hands of the infidel. The primary goal of Islam is to expand the borders of Dar al-Islam at the expense of Dar al-Harb, and to create a universal Islamic community

Those who have thus far lambasted Schwartz are doing so for the wrong reasons. Schwartz is warning against Dewinterian fascism, not supporting it. Schwartz does go wrong, however. See if you can find where: "THE MUSLIMS demanded that boys and girls study separately in schools. THE MUSLIMS also demanded that no pig products be eaten in government schools. "the Muslim community EVEN demanded that Arabic become the fourth official language in the country" What Schwartz does is take a community of about 500,000 thousand diverse individuals, and paint them all with one brush. "The muslims..." this, "the muslims" that. Then, with the use of the word "even" in the last paragraph i quoted, Schwartz implies that asking for official recognition of one's language is somehow worse than asking for the implementation of religious law. Thats backwards, literally. If 1% of Belgians were Italian-speakers, we wouldnt care if they asked for linguistic recognition. Religion is the problem here.

The way the article is written, you make it sound like like it's become vogue in Europe to hate Muslims. Maybe it is. At least you guys suggest that ignoring the problem is not effective. The problem is dealing with it ineffectively by inciting hatred. In Canada we call it dissemination of hate literature and you can go to jail for it. How is the hate ever going to end if we don't stop hating?

Europe is Europe. We don't want foreigners who destroy our civilization. If Muslims don't like European values, they should come here. And if they do, we shouldn't allow them in. Free the West from Islamofacism.

Adi is saying that Europe must deal properly with the issue of fundamentalist Islam that threatens Western values because if it doesn't then it will lead to a rise of the far right and a return of Nazi ideology to European soil. He is not condoning Dewinter, quite the opposite, he is horrified by the prospect that his views are becoming legitimised by the extremist actions of some Muslims. Please try and stop, think, comprehend, internalise, and then and ONLY then, respond. It is this inability to analyse the subtleties of journalism in the free world that has led to this cartoon crisis in the first place.

The title ' a music to my ear ' Please add ' enough Democracy with those who choose the jungle ' Thank you very much ! Akram Zekaria. PS Plato explain all that in his Republic. Worth reading it.

You clearly didn't read the article, or at least not correctly. The author is saying that Dewinter-style fascism is even worse than ignoring the issues at hand, and warns that if the ignorance on behalf of current governments continues, the petrifying Dewinsterism will gain strength. There certainly are flaws in the argument, but you're missing them.

Hearing Khalid, a person who comes to this forum daily to demonize Jews, talk about incitement is laughable.

You should know that people don't like being told what they can and cannot do! It's human nature! Especially when it comes to kids! So now your Muslim buddies have just turned a whole new generation of European youths into an anti-Semetic bunch. But this time the Semites are the Muslims!

I don't for a second believes that any sane person buys into the theory that "Muslims are the biggest threat to Europe".Indeed 99.99% of Muslims are not a threat to anyone anywhere.The biggest threat to Europe is probably one of the South American football teams winning the world cup again.Now most Euroeans agree that is something to have a serious conversation about, andwill be talking about football long after they are about cartoons or marginal,racist politicans.

It is abundantly clear that Nazism is once again raising its ugly head in Europe. This time it has many allies, including, oddly enough, right-wing Jewish and Zionist cirlces, Christian fundamentalists and evangelicals circles and even some hard nationalists. We know what German Nazism did, do we need to wait to see what the new Nazism is capable of doing?

Islam's golden age, when it spread and ruled as an empire and flourished in the arts and sciences, was suddenly de-railed by "infidels" nonetheless who superceded it in presence and progress even though they adhered to lesser G-ds and lesser prophets. This diabolical disconnect as they see it, where the true believers in the most high G-d (Allah) and his last prophet (Mohammed) must never be subservient to followers of a lesser belief, has got to be finally rectified at any expense by militant Islam. Most high G-d to them also means most high and revered worldly position be it scientific, artistic, etc., in their minds. Their "jihad" to right this wrong does not so much involve cleansing and changing their errant ways but rather asserting their doctrines on others (violently if need be) and changing them instead. The position they now find themselves in is due more to blind allegience to their all too human and evil leadership, rather than being corrupted by the West.