Don't call the Israeli Left anti-Zionist

No amount of Palestinian or far-left rhetoric is going to threaten Israel's existence. Neither do Palestinian suicide bombers, soldiers, and rockets approach the capability to destroy Israel. It is Israel itself, through internal divisions and stupid policies that is a threat to its own existence.

Oh please like the israeli left are going to save the palestinians. Yeah just like the West is going to save the Palestinians. The palestinians are going to liberate themselves. Just sit back and watch, it's only question of time.

We might take you seriously. But your earlier comments claiming the Armenians had "a chip on their shoulders" simply because millions were massacred by Trukey makes any of your commentary specious at best.

The palestinians are openly against the right of Israel to exist. They are openly for murder of Jews. They are openly for terrorism. One cannot support them and still be pro Israel. No stories of how they suffer or how bad they have it can justify their agenda, and no Jew can be for Israel and support their agenda.

They weaken Israel's sovereignty by inviting foreign nations to interfere every time they lose elections. They spend more time fighting for those trying to destroy Israel than they do defending their own nation. They import a terror leader from Tunisia and make him a dictator in neighboring territories. They change Israel's message from national freedom to failed attempts for peace, and they try to make support of Israel contingent on a false "peace" process. They sign Israel on to one-sided agreements that stop Israel from defending itself. They also betray the trust (and lives) of allies in the region with a cowardly betrayal and withdrawal and they ruin every military victory by pushing and signing on to a diplomatic defeat. If the Israeli left isn't anti-Zionist, it's just really counterproductive to us living as a free people in our own land.

I once proudly marched in Peace Now rallies down the streets of Tel Aviv, in search for a peaceful alternative with my Arab neighbors. It took a few good years to come to terms with a bitter realization - the Palestinian camp never had, and still does not have a peace movement (bar a few brave individuals). When Oslo was in full force, that was the belated chance for the Palestinian peace movement to rear its head. It never materialized. It never existed. That is the bottom line. We are only left with a "moderate" Palestinian leadership which does not accept that the character of a future Israel can be defined as being Jewish, and whose constitution still calls for Israel's destruction. Many in the Palestinian street considers this "moderate" leadership as traitorous. Stop sweeping these blaring realities under the carpet Mr. Sarid. and wake up to the reality. Peace will come to this region, ONLY after a peace movement of critical mass arises from within the Palestinian camp.

Sarid and other extremists on the left suffer from cognitive dissonance due to the impossibility of reconciling devotion to an ideology (Zionism) that ultimately proves that DEMOcracy only works when speaking of one DEMOS, one people. Because the far leftists try to make it work for two peoples, they live with profound contradictions that force them to take untenable positions. It is this dissonance which makes it so difficult to write a coherent statement about their own beliefs.

Zioists want to live in the land of Israel. No more no less. The land of biblical Israel is this tiny bit of land. In comparison the Islamic Caliphate wants to encompass all of the MiddleEast, all of West Asia, all of Africa,all of Europe. Then when they have the power they will work on the Americas. The Far Eastern Asian countries are off the radar...for the time being.

It is remarkable that the party which established the State of Israel, and its institutions, and was able to control the trouble-making of the Right, is today on the verge of disappearing. What are the causes? The decline starts with Shimon Peres, Chairman from 1977 to 1992. Peres did not make an effort to attract the Sephardi Jews. Moreover, people could smell his ideological insincerity from a distance and he kept losing elections. Eventually he quit the party right after losing the chairmanship to a Sephardi (!), and stated that he was never a socialist (!). The party was also given over to generals, Rabin and Barak. Generals have little concern with social issues, and Barak himself is a capitalist. Add the effect of Soviet Jews (right-wingerism built-in), and you have your causes. Incidentally, Meretz was not better on the Sephardi front. Strangely, it was easier for them to attract Arabs than Sephardis.

" we shall get to the root of the original sin from 1948, which was a necessity not to be condemned but now needs to be mended as much as possible. " Necessity???? How can you claim that it was a necessity to chase out 90% of the Palestinians. It was indeed a sin and it should be mended but to call it a "necessity"? It was and still is a crime against humanity. Innocent people were chased of their land just to make room for Jews. To claim it was a necessity is incredible. You are no better than the current government, you just do not have that much appetite.

Pres.Mandela once equated Zionism to Racism. Nowadays the word Zionism is equated as Apartheid,narrow mindedness,far right settler movements, land grabbing and just about every bad word in the Dictionary. The liberal minded folk,the leftists or the moderates are somewhat astonished to find themselves mixed into a Zionist Maelstrom of which they themselves cannot understand. For Zionism goes back to the early 1900·s. It was a dream, for a homeland lost for thousands of years. So they came from all corners of the earth, draining swamplands, fighting malaria, diseases,fedayeen,hunger,blood and sweat and slowly built up a country. Those that survived the horrors of the Nazi Camps, were soon enough engulfed in the War of Independence. Those were the Zionists. Those were my parents,uncles, aunts, cousins. Today,they must all be turning in their graves. Good day from Snowy Swiss Alps.

... that is why they failed and their time is over ! No one can fight the rules of nature as simple as that !

or the dispossessed peoples in tibet !

I made a mistake in my original posting. The flags that were condemned were 'Peace Now' flags. On YNet Haggai Segal describes the retreat of the Zionist Left who have not reached the level of cowardice and self- effacement as to not dare to wave an Israeli flag while surrounded by the Palestinian Green and Communist Red. As to the humanitarian aspect of the situation in 'Sheik Jarrah'. Surely with good will and humanitarian feeling it should be possible to provide the evacuated families good housing. One more point. I do not respect anonymous posters on the Web. If one cares enough for a cause one should be courageous enough to post one's own name.

the one thing that is shared in israel by the left,right,zionist and anti-zionist is intolerance. this is why i left israel after over 3 years there.

There won't be security for Israel for a very long time. If you want to settle in a land populated by other people and even found your own state there, no matter how much you believe you have a right to do so you have to get the approval of those affected by this. Otherwise they will fight you, plain and simple. While a two-state solution does reflect approval on the surface, there would still be three generations of Pals who have grown up distrusting and hating Jews, aside from that percentage of crazy lunatics you have in every people. Thus, even if there is a Pal state, if there is official peace with Syria, maybe even Iran, there will nevertheless be attacks until new generations take over who truly see Israel and the Jews as valuable neighbours, even friends. Peace is a project that will take decades to complete! The truth the Left needs to tell: this is simply the prize to pay. Further delay will only increase the installments.

I have recently watched a documentary where Palestinians were asked for their opinions on the Israeli left-right divide. They said that the Left was better in manipulating international opinion but stole their land nevertheless. It would be great to get a reply of a leftist Israeli on this.

Yosi Sarid's Zionism is the Zionism of the Prophets....founded on justice, humility, solidarity, and compassion. This is not represented by the Labor Party. The other Zionism is that of the Zealots.....founded on land, blood, ethno=centricity, war and exceptionalism. The Jewish people in the Land of Israel must choose which Zionism they prefer. But they must choose wisely. The last time they chose the path of the Zealots, they were exiled for two thousand years!

Yossi ,do you also support the return of the refugees to pre 1967 Israel.Please come clean and say so.If you do ,can you still call yourself a Zionist.If you dont ,can you have peace with your proposal.You know well it would be rejected by the palestinians.The problem with the left is that they are fantasisers and not realists.

I cannot speak about Leftists in Israel but I can about Canada. Those most critical of Israel including a call for a single binational State are usually from the left-trade unions like the Canadian Union of Public Employees, the NDP the most left wing party in Canada and Marxists many of them Jews. So a leftist zionist in Canada is about as common as a dinosaur on the Canadian Rockies. It was never so-Ben Gurion, Golda Meir, Abba Eban etc were all from the Labor party. My father, may he rest in Peace, was a Bitar supporter but both the Left and the Right were zionists in those days. I wish for its' return,

I have an uncle who in the 80s lived in Israel after marrying an Israeli he jokingly reminds me how he had to wait 2 years for a phone & I got mine straight away. It wasn't until companies like HOT came along & Bezeq faced competition things started changing before then Bezeq employees used to get paid every month even if they didn't do the job they were paid for properly. There was a time when it was thought internet would never take off in Israel and it would be for the computer geeks who would get their own sattelitte dishes to pick up the signals. Cellphones took off because at the time they came along Bezeq was still running the show & doing a bad job but the cellphone gave everybody a a personal phone without the waiting list. Yossi Sarid & the rest of the left who dream of a return to the socialism of the old days have a romantic idea of how things were so wonderful back then, nobody remembers things like the failed state owned companies & how competition made things better.

Socialism is amongst many things about eliminating nation states. Its flag is just plain red symbolizing the blood of those who have suffered under the thumb of in justice. And its anthem is the Internationale. It's a simple as that.

Either that or senile dementia. But when I finished reading this article, I couldn't remember what I'd just read. (Which is one heck of a way to kick off the day.)

The right could easily get 3000+ to attend a rally calling for more building so the turnout of a single protest by the left means nothing. Yossi should also understand that a flag & anthems represent a countries identity. Hatikvah is about a return to zion ( Jerusalem ), the Magen David is a jewish symbol that says what Israel stands for - A JEWISH STATE As for zionism its has always had different branches of zionism with have different ideals & different versions have been dominent at different times. Why should Israel give away land just because the arabs demand it? Today they want the 1967 border ( 22% of Palestine ), tommorow when they demand the 49% of Palestine offered by the UN in 1947 do we give them that? when they demand a single binational state do we create it? We should put Israels interests first not our enemies If Yossi wants Israel to be a success economically he will accept that the kind of socialism he wants is from another time & embrace capitalism & free market

if i remember, the bible says love thee neighbor. it seems to me that the israeli right has change this to love thee neighbor as long as he is jewish

"I'm not a big fan of flags"unless they are on fire. "The same goes for national anthems"unless it is the chanting"allahu Akbar". "We have not given up on Israel as a democratic country"but we support the authoritarian regimes elsewhere. "and the socialists among us(all of you)have not given upon their beliefs"We still work for Stalinism,and Leninism(don't deny it,we have been there)."And i have not forgone the Bible" you mean the Carl Marx manifesto. "It is essential that Israel recognize the injustice"and allow the"justful" terrorist do their"justified" terror in peace.

It is like in the rest of the western world. The left is in retreat.The people are fed up with their rethoric,and the time for revolutionism is over.The leftist are the reason for the rise of Geert Wilder,and BNP.In The EU parlaiment the right won big,and look at Austria,even the in the "paradise"of Scandinavia the right is on the rise.It is sad that the silent majority(center)that is fed up with the appeasement and sumissin policy is leaving the "stage" for those wings,but i guess people prefer HOT WINGS.

I appreciate you taking an interest in internal Israeli politics, but it is painfully obivious that you have never encountered the divisions personally. Thus your post read like some Tolkien fantasy. I was part of the Labor Zionists, a few decades ago. I am aware that this state was founded not just by the Labor Zionists but by the right-wing parties as well. Most of their reasons very personal & notpart of your imagined grand design. For example an old jazz musician from Germany, who under the Labor gov't could not find employment nor record in gov't controlled recording studios. The music was considered unfit for building a nation. Back in 1977, many voted out the socialists because they were tired of the inefficiency of the gov't run phone company. This is stuff I do not expect you to know nor fully understand. One must remember that it was the Labor gov't that fought the war of 1948, 1956 and 1967! It was Labor that took control of the W. Bank & Gaza, Mark.

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, you're looking at a duck! Leftists are Anti Zionists...

LEFT AND NATIONALISM IS AN OXIMORON

The Israeli left is one of the few things that make me hopeful for the future of Israel, but, as the poll yesterday indicated, it's got a mountain to climb and making Zionism your fetish isn't the way ahead. Zionism ultimately is just nationalism. And socialism and nationalism are mutually incomaptible and if they are ever are mixed, the results can be bad. Whatever happened to those National Socialists?

In place of the Israeli flag's magen David, the word shalom was written in Hebrew. Wake up and understand exactly what the problem is. What is going on in Sheikh Jarrah is unconscionable. Families, already refugees, already twice "transferred", first by Israel and then by Jordan, have just been transferred for a third time, into the street, where they live in tents. Whether right, centre, left, Zionist, anti-Zionist or the mysterious post-Zionist, the battle should unite all factions who can tell right from wrong, never mind right from left, no longer important. The Israelis who moved in there are not the Israelis who had to leave in 1948 and they came from homes that are secure, inside an internationally recognized state called Israel, to turn stateless, disenfranchised people out from under the shelter they were awarded onto the sidewalks of a city with no morals that they call the united city of Jerusalem, eternal capital of a country in denial, Israel.

The kibbutzim in Israel were founded on communist ideals. The extreme Left in Israel has its grass roots supporters and leaders from the kibbutz movement. Their influence on town folk Israelis who see themselves as not being part of the Jewish experience is highly significant. Unknowingly, many on the extreme Left are moving closer to the communist Left, and we all know just how successful communism is. Of course many will deny this. They must not be allowed to set the agenda of the day but it may be too late. I am not sure Zionism and Communism can fit together. Those Israelis demonstrating with Palestinians in Jerusalem are communists who know nothing about Zionism. Sorry Yossi, you need to dig a little deeper and learn from history, and call a spade a spade.

#2 - I agree with you but that you live in Montreal. Why not move to Eretz Israel and live within your ideals rather than just writing about them? (I'm assuming much of course, for which I apologize if I'm disrespectful at all.)

Explain to me please, how my family's (Ghawi) eviction from Jaffa in 1948 is not the same as the more recent Ghawi family's eviction from sheikh Jarrah. Local families making a decision between getting killed and being uprooted and sent elsewhere to figure out their lives. Now, as in then, the families have the absolute right to return, regardless of the inconvenience of doing so.

....again within the "Zionist movement", and today, you and your liberal/left wing friends are a small, small minority. And as long as you decide to remain in the Zio- nist boat, you will have to accept, that people will judge your movement on the conduct of the big majority, and not on the one of the small (though well meaning) minority. Fair or not, but that's just the way things work in this world....

Yossi Sarid seems to assume that all readers know what he is talking about. What happened is that when a Palestinian spokesman spoke to the pro- Palestinian rally at Sheik Jarrah he called for the taking down of the few Israeli flags which were waving along the sea of Green and Red. The old- timers Yossi Sarid and friends did not particularly like that suggestion. It should wake them up to who they have allied themselves with. They have allied themselves with the same Palestinian Arabs and radical Leftist Jews that deny the right of the Jewish state to exist. They have allied themselves with Israel's enemies. All the apologetics and gratuitous attacks on others will not help Mr. Sarid here.

All religions are based on historic falsehoods including the Jewish Faith. There was never a Moishe who produced 10 commandments and 613 crutches: in itself it is telling Gd you did a bad job we made 613 rules you forgot... Human pompous arrogance of ignorance...Suggest instead of running around like headless chickens, why not take a look at the values we impose on our children...it IS Child abuse. Israel a religious Free Country after those who placed it on the map in 1948. They weren't religious but secular humanists. In history there never as a "Jewish" Israel!!! Instead of Israel making a living by promoting religions, yes plural, as it has the Bahai headquarters sitting on its soil of which it collects a royal income not to mention a list of other religions. To promote "Israel as a Religious Free-Zone" would be a true gift for generations to come and lasting peace for all.

If you compare the ideal of Zionism 50 year back in time and how it is interpreted today you will find that it has become more aggressive and more dominant. How come? Has the ideal traveled from left to right on the political scale and from non religious to extreme religious interoperation?

As long as deep in the heart, The soul of a Jew yearns, And forward to the East To Zion, an eye looks Our hope will not be lost, The hope of two thousand years, To be a free nation in our land, The land of Zion and Jerusalem. We can not be free as long as we are preventing the freedom of others. We need strong, well defined borders with our neighbors. Having our children and our spouses walking Arab streets with assault rifles and participating in breaking into peoples homes to arrest people that the soldiers participating have no Idea of their crime are examples of activities that confuse Israelis when they return to their homes and is too frequently an element of the breakdown of Israeli society. The Extreme elements of the Left and the right need to be battled and defeated in the political arena. By not differentiating and denouncing the Strong Zionist elements of the rational Left and right, we are destroying the fabric of the only democracy in the region.

The Labor Zionists? The people who created Israel DESPITE the actions of the Revisionist? Of course the are Anti-Semitic. Were they not they would be of the Revisionists that took over Israel thirty years after the Labor Zionists founded it. The Revisionists thought that the Labor Zionists were no better than British sucking traitors in the 1930s and 40s. The Revisionists hated the Labor Zionists because they considered building a nation more important than killing Britons and Arabs. Revisionists hated - and still hate - Labor Zionists because building and peace is more important to Labor Zionists than destroying and killing. But then what became of Labor Zionism. Ehud Barak. A man happy to sell his whole legacy, the whole goal of those who created Israel, out to the Revisionist for a bit of power. So, perhaps, the Revisionists are correct. Perhaps the dreams and achievements of the Labor Zionists should be denied because there is nothing left of Labor Zionism.

its about like saying nazism had a left wing peace movement in the nice peace loving jew loving georing....BS...you never did anything but talk while your co conspirators stole more land...which is what zionism really is about...its not politics its crime

According to Sarid, the creation of Israel was a "sin," and he is ready to heal the open wound that it created, presumably by joining in some Israel-bashing with his poor downtrodden Arab brothers. All the Arabs want is peace, right Sarid? They don't reject Israel and want to destroy it, right? They don't honour the terrorist killers of Jewish women and children, or publish antsemitic screeds, or incite hatred, right? You and the rest of your leftist ilk are lost, totally lost. Your dreams of being in the Arab league are shot, and rather than recognize your errors, you just blindly continue to adhere to your discredited and deadly ideology.

Leftists are the true Zionists because we are the ones who wish to see a Jewish majority in Israel within the next 30-40 years for our children and grandchildren to live in.