Divorce the Chief Rabbinate

Maybe one day we will follow Rabbis who follow Torah and Talmud before Rabbis who make up what they like. Hedyotos can do conversions, and no conversion can be revoked, at least I never read in the Torah or Talmud where one was, the Shulchan Aruch too. No we don't poskim from the Talmud but we can't rule against it! Sorry. If the CR can change Torah/Talmud laws on conversion it's time to lay off the conservative and reform for not accepting the Talmud as eternally binding. You can't have it both ways.

stop talking as if you care, when your entire attitude stinks of " beat up the Rabbis". If you have not learned enough top respect the Rabbis, please shup up. your attitude of "holier than the pope" stinks. So does the garbage you spout.

Refused to accept heter mechira. Over 130 years ago the first agricultural settlements, Petach Tikva , Rishon Letzion, were set up based on decisions of Rabbi Shmuel Salant, By his students. These pioneers were the first opponents of heter Mechira, and by no means the last. Most Halachic authorities cannot find any validity to the proccess whereby the mechira is supposed to work.It simply does not meet halachic standards or sources.

Otzar beit din is an Innovation from way back when, About 3000 years ago when Jews lived here before the exiles.If you do not know, please be quiet.

they understand distinctions you do not. Please learn that it is better to keep quiet and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. Someone has filled your head with nonsense, and you think that nonsense is Halacha. actually it is not.

The ones who will suffer the most are the poor charedim who once tried to make a living of 200$ per month, and not with the same budget has to buy vegetables for three times the price. Who is acctually winning here? Charedim won't afford the food. Jewish farmers will go bankrupt. We are donating money to Gaza and their rockets. Jewish stronghold of the contry gets weaker. Some rabbeis showed their power and competes in being machmirim. R' Ovadia Yosef accepted heiter mechira, why can't the others?

Otzar beis din is also that a rabinical trick to avoid "true rest of the land". However since we live in the computer area and very few people acctually grow the land, this is a solution the rabbeis found to provide the people in the cities with food. But again taking the public in to concideration, heiter mechira should be allowed because the people don't know how to treat the kedusha shevit.

sure, must, must, must... but hardly anyone in israel does know how, if they at all they know what shmita is. And it is a rabinical principle not to constitute halacha that the public can't (is not expected) to hold.

Sorry but you have obviously only learned from those who take so many shortcuts they lost sight of where they are going why not try to learn the real thing from those committed to keeping it even when it is a challenge actually it is more fun that way...

then Arab produce would not need to be an option.But if the farmers export, then somehow the shortfall needs to be made up.Of course Otzar Beit Din is best, but those who brainwashed you refuse to be a part of that.

Sorry but otzar haaretz since gush katif is more than a bit of a bluff, the real farmers who keep shmitta and there are thousands, are employed by Otzar Batei Din and yes the consumers must learn and keep the laws of kedushat Sheviit. For the last hundred or more years, this arrangement does work.

P.s. It was an interview on the radio the other day with an arab farmer from Gaza. He was asked about his opinion about the end of Bank Hapoalim's transactions to Gaza strip. With no connection to our discussion, he said how hard it's gonna hit him and his friends, and how everybody was looking forward to especially this year, since it is "shmita for all of your datim".

I am not ignorant to torah nor people. I do take in consideration though: 1) The publics knowledge of shmetia laws, 2) Jewish farmers. The main argument against the mechira,as you might know, is the selling of land of Erez Israel to goyim. The purpose of that prohibition is to strengthen the jewish presence and stronghold of the land of Israel. Ironically though, by allowing heiter mechira, jewish farmers and thus jewish control of the land is strengthen. Moreover by not allowing heiter mechira, we are not only blocking the income to jewish farmers but we are also pouring money over arabs in Gaza or shooting rockets over families in Sderot and surroundings. Is that good?!

To signature "A jew": The only farmers who keep shmita are the ones working with a beis din under the "Ozar haaretz" project. They are very few farmers and their produce constitue a serious halachic problem since the wide public don't know how to treat the fruits and vegetables of the shmita and their s'gula.

You obviously know nothing about the laws of Shemita. It's like saying everyone is allowed to drive on shabbat because sick people can drive to the hospital. How dare the Chareidim take the 'Chumra' approach to driving on Shabbat when "we just wanna have fun."

And they do so because they see who did better last Shmitta, and the facts on the ground are that the Farmers who do keep Shmitta do better.Go ask farmers, not lobbyists.

If the secular majority is going to decide what will you do when the secularists become a minority, in about ten - twenty years, if that long.

that is why they have followings, of hundreds of thousands of intelligent Jews.

Anti religious fanatics like you are decreasing all the time in this country.Soon the Jews who are proud of their heritage will look at you as archaisms.Some of us do so already. you sound like you escaped from the eighteen hundreds.

wherever you live must be a hate- filled place.You have zero tolerance for others and a big mouth spouting hate, enough to make any neighbors you have sick. then again perhaps you live in a cave.

It is true that keeping shmita is not an issue of Pikuach Nefesh (life and death problematics) today... for most of us. That is for charedim not working it really doesn't matter from where the fruits and vegs comes from, but for the jewish farmer its a death blow. They will go bankrupt if heiter mechira is not allowed. And this is my point: What a chutzpa of charedim, who hasn't sweat a drip over working the land, to take upon the people chumra! It is easy to be machmir when it only hurts others.

To be jewish is to belong to a people, not to a religion. Some jews are religious some are not. The religious want to live according to outdated concepts? so be it! But then dont interfere with the non religious. If you want to ruin your economy, ruin it. It is your right. If non religious want to eat pork and sell it it is their right. And if the state needs solders then everybody goes to the army. Some leftists and some rightistes disagree with the goverment policies? I respect both but they should go to prison if they dont follow orders. The army is not a parlament. tho orders are bad? vote against those who give them but in the meantime follow them or assume!

This is quite stupid article. I am secular but I got no problem with the Rabbis as a group. If the problem is a group of individuals inside a very very big institution then why not deal with those specific people? Its like you say I dont like the government, so lets just cut the whole thing out and govern ourselves

It seems that Israel spends much of the time cleaning up the "mess" created after these gentlemen create a mess---just look at the latest incident involving the Succoth parade. These rabbis should guide and recommend, not mandate, as if they were sitting in Islamabad guiding unquestioning masses.

people like 14 living in israel understand my point of view, 19 you don't mention where you live, but as to what I am justifying, its an issue of advocating curbing power of Rabbinute so as to be a reflection of a modern democratic nation state. #19 I am a big believer in freedom of religion but certainly hope Israel does not become a theocracy or semi-theocracy. see posting 13 for further information.

Arrest the chief rabbinate- and send them to where they belong: AFGHANISTAN

The Chief Rabinate is not a reformist body designed to folow a Humanist Liberalist agenda. The Chief Rabbinate is empowered to uphold Halacha in the most traditionalist manner.

is separation of religion and state. Let only those who care about halacha support the rabbinate, the ritual baths, the kashrut inspectors, the yeshivas and the ritual baths (mikvehs) with their contributions and "Let my people go".

Let the ChiefRabbinate mark "heter Mechira produce "Mutar le Ochalei Heter Mechira Bilvad" (Permitted for those only who eat 'heter mechira')This is comparable to those Sefardic and Oriental Jews who eat legumes during Passover ("mutar le ochalei qitniot bilvad!) This way the others know not to uy this product or in this store or eat tat this celebration.

obviously you do not give a fig for kashrut, nor are you willing to learn anything Jewish.This leads you to insult anyone who does. Then you blame it all on them. circular reasoning. Sounds like you are spinning your wheels and going in ever decreasing circles.

Guess what. for the first time the Chief Rabbis were chosen by the rabbis who the people voted as their leaders. Rav Elyashiv certainly has the following of anyone loyal to halacha and has had it for over forty years.He chose the chief Rabbis and they do listen to him... then again he was always the one everyone else asked to deal with the really tough cases, for decades.

you sound like you are justifying something. whether your own hatred or your hate actions, your reciting long lists of imaginary "crimes" sounds like excuses to me.

If the entire population would accept to lower its standard of living by 15% in order to respect the Shmittah, then Shmittah would be observed. Period. In this respect, it is like Shabat. You cannot observe Shabat without planning during the week. Now, even if only the religious population of Israel would collectively agree to this step (without the State Rabbinate), that would probably be sufficient to subsidize the religious farmers. This is just food for thought for religious people (there are other proposals put forth by Rabbanim). This implies only will and not any "religious coercition". Note that once your recognize this, Haaretz loses its main argument... and the editorial becomes void. So one cannot say today that Shmitta is impossible for purely economic reasons and heter mechira is "the" solution. Too easy a way out. The conditions today are far different from Rav Abraham Kook's.

First, the editorial mixes two different issues: the purely halakhic issue of shviit and shmittah and the purely political issue of the official State Rabbinate. As I have explained several times elsewhere, the two issues are completely distinct. As the official State Rabbinate is completely manipulated by politics who maintain the religious statu quo they please, from a purely religious viewpoint, it is clear that the State Rabbinate is irrelevant. Secondly, regarding Shmitta itself, Ben and Not a Rabbi (posts #7, #8) are right. The editorial presupposes that it is impossible to observe Shmittah. We don't accept that assumption.

I couldn't agree with you more . The very fact that these orthodox people feel free to direct everything in the lives of people that they don't give a fig about , but are willing and eager to recieve all that they can from the very people that they put down . Many of the Jewish laws should be up-dated and many of those old grey-beards should stop telling us how to live . Too bad that they make me hate my religion .

The jewish people survived 2000 yrs without a Chief Rabbinate. It was the Chief Rabbinate 2000 yrs ago which split and betrayed the people and and caused our exile. What we need is not a corrupt Chief Rabbinate or Rabbies but Rabbinical leaders chosen by the people not by the corrupt Rabbies them selves. If we need to have a Chief Rabbinate let us the people vote on who gets the jobb.Like we have done the last 2000 yrs.

See God's faithfulness. Grace = unmeritted favor. God's Grace is not earned; it is His choosing for His purposes. Greatful I am to receive His Grace. Merciful is our God!!!

What about allow the LAND to rest don't you understand? Permitting others (literally) to ignore the Word of God for your benefit is deplorable and will not escape consequences for those "permitted" or those permitting. Seek out other lands on different rotation to meet the needs of the people. Work with your allies who will be happy to help.

and jews themselves that they had no right to exits. I suggest the Rabbinute has convinced Jews themselves that they can't exist without the Rabbinute to guide (e.g Ruin)Israel. They have too much power, they keep people from converting, keep divorced women in limbo, have women in back of bus, have list of those who should not marry like a backward caste system, threaten to ruin businesses over shmita rule, as they collect wellfare off the back off hard working israelis. Don't serve in the army even in volunteer capacity. If any of you saw the famous political commercial, an israeli walking along, dragging on his right leg a long chain of haredi men on after the other.....draining the system, exploiting it. Haaretz editorial, how they screw people over is worse than the shmita land issue.

KEEP THE LAW OF MOSES AND LET THE LAND REST. It doesn't matter who owns the land, the land is required to rest. All this cheter Mechira and other illegal circumventiona are an abomination!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rabbi Kook said, 'He is giving a "one time" heter! (to sell part of the country and have arabs only do the work.)It was based on the premise that it was "pikuach nefesh"-Life saving as the farmers had NO OTHER way ofgetting food to eat. In his second shmitta Rabbi Kook did not want to renew it and in the end did so, In todays day where the batsheva dance group gets more money than what is needed to support the farmers who "need" the heter, perhaps its "OUR" values that are messed up not the charedi rabbis

he ignorance of every haaretz article involving halacha both saddens me and angers me. If the author would investigate and learn exactly what the 'Heter Mechira' is he would find that if not for ULTRA-ORTHODOX CHAREIDI rabbi's in Europe the heter never would have existed. It is not found ANYWHERE in 3000 years of halchic evolution from the mishna to the talmud to Rambam to Vilna Gaon. IT'S NEW and was created temporarily. If one would even read RAV KOOK's input into the topic they would find thta there is NO WAY that he would use the "HETER in todays situation. STOP YOUR IGNORANT FOOLISH INPUT INTO MATTERS THAT YOU COULDN'T CARE LESS ABOUT EVEN UNDERSTANDING. WOULD YOU TELL EINSTEIN TO VIEW PHYSICS YOUR WAY?? THERE IS AN OCEAN OF HALACHIC DISCOURSE REGARDING SHEMITA THAT SPANS THOUSANDS OF YEARS. YOUR IGNORANCE IS AN EMBARRASEMENT TO YOUR OWN HISTORY.

The only people who are likely to recognise this Hecsher are those who don't care about one.

Did I miss something? when did Am-Haaretz marry?

A better headline.and more accurate.

if you dont want to keep kosher, stop telling those who do what is kosher. Anti - religious coercion is outdated and died out with the generation of Stalin and the Maabarot. Stop trying to resucitate it, it rotted away together with Marxist socialism.

Haaretz's proposal would work only if the secularists were married to halacha. They are not.they are not even adulterous, They reject halacha entirely, at least in public.Of course in private, they want to enjoy Judaism more than they ever admit in print. Actually secularists' arguments have all the vehemence of family squabbles, They are our brothers, even when they resent our being alive. So no divorce is possible. we, the Hareidim, cannot divorce them, and they cannot divorce us. we are stuck having to put up with each other. It would help if they would be polite, but then that would be asking them to keep something jewish, which is what the argument began with.

Rabbis with no willingness to keep halacha, who advise girls in sherut leumi to stay in situations that could lead to sexual harrasment, are not representative of anything but their own arrogant selves.