Danger: Popular struggle

able togo ahead. There is 1400 internationals in town in Cairo from 42 countries who wish to march in Gaza on the 31st Dec against the seige. This has nothing to do with politics or religion, but basic human rights to clean water, food, medications, and freedom of movement. Israel is comitting a genocidal war crime against the Pals in Gaza...and the world is watching. We are all bearing witness to these crimes...and we will call Israeli criminals to account, if not today then very soon in the future. We are not afraid of Jews. The GFM will affect media and gov inall countries whether the Jews like it or not.

I wish I could believe in a popular struggle, but so few Israelis have the psychological capacity to fight the establishment and this unjust system of oppression. When Israels democracy and its leaders are so imcompetent, both blind to political developements globally and to simple justice and its people are so apathetic, change can only be forced upon the country from the outside through a policy of sticks and carrots which unfortunately will result in more transgressions and more suffering for Palestinians and Israelis alike before change will come. Those who end up in prison for believing in coexistence and in justice are brave and should be proud whatever happens to them. You are the conscience of the country, the victors of tomorrow. Long live Ahad ha'Am!

the Palestinian public is learning from its past mistakes and from the use of arms Amira hess tries to be positive, but she forgets to write that the Israelis are very humane and helpful people.when did Palestinians ever help others? or release a POW like gilad Shalit

I was in Berlin 3 weeks after the wall came down. It was a festive atmosphere with an open bazzar of people selling all kind of soviet era stuff and pieces of the wall. There was a positive buzz in the air and people on both sides of the barrier were estatic. People were ready for that wall to come. The majority of the people on both sides of the Wall/Fence will have to feel secure before any of it comes down. The arguement of whose side its built is in reality, irrelavant. For Israelis at present it is "Peace of the Wall". In time I think we all hope that we can take a "Piece of the Wall" home. May it happen in my lifetime and yours.

Let the children squabble over the interpretation, they don't have the intellect to grasp the concept!

Given the current condition of the average Palestinian family man behind the barriers, what would be an appropriate response by Palestinian citizens. Would we remain quiet and quiescent under the same conditions? I don't think so. Empathy is rarer than diamonds in the soil of the Holy Land.

How far back will you insist on going regarding who "owns" or who is owed land: to Adam and Eve? And what do you say to the millions of Americans who loved Israel and gladly gave millions of our tax dollars to help it, without a whimper, without which the "zionist enterprise" would likely not have survived? You don't even utter a whisper of a thank you. And when your friends now dare criticize your utter hubris, you cry anti-semitism. You have become so paranoid that you wouldn't know real anti-semitism if you saw it!

SDHD, you still need to justify the way this wall is built.

Those Israelis who have continued to demonstrate illegally every Friday should be striped of their rights to welfare and medical. The huge Arab world, with all their wealth, stands behind the Palestinians. They don't need a bunch of misguided Israeli's to champion their cause. The better things get in the West Bank, the less likely they will want to compromise. This was clear to me and to many others prior to the signing of Oslo.

"I have not personally been to one of the fence protests, but there are plenty all over YouTube. Every single one of them shows destruction of property, rioting, violent behavior." You have to understand... Destruction of property, rioting, violent behavior -- throwing rocks, etc. is non-violent to these people. At least they're not blowing up public places or shooting up Israelis, right?

"You still have not answered Apa,s question in #9, please try again." Read my answer over and over again until it finally clicks for you.

"Giving back?" Back to whom? J&S was Jewish land recaptured from the (British-invented Hashemite Trans-) Jordanians when they tried to wipe Israel out. Jordan doesn't want it back now. Shame, because they are capable of controlling terror and keeping peaceful borders. Perhaps you mean "giving" i.e. to a newly invented Palestinian State in addition to Jordan. That's different. There is surely room for Pal self-governance but not if the Jewish areas are to become Judenrein like in 1947-1968. 1m Arab Muslims live in Israel and would not choose to leave. The green line was merely where the fighting stopped. Stop obsessing over it. Other countries which win land in war keep it, no questions asked, whereas most Israelis would be happy to see a 2nd Pal State if it meant peace. Re anti-semitism: Jew haters are nothing new. Some people will always hate blacks, Auzzies, French etc.

Property versus people is an evil equation. The anti-fence people, are in essence saying by their actions, that a dispute about property between Jews and Palestinian is more significant then the murder of Jews by Palestinians, if the Palestinians have strong feelings about the property. The Green Line is just where the troops stopped. 19 years of illegal Jordanian occupation and successful ethnic cleansing of Jews, didn't transform the ancient Jewish heartland of Judea and Samaria into "the Palestinian Arab West Bank." The "property before Jewish lives" aspect of "Palestinianism" is un-acceptable to any moral person.

Thank you Amira for such an informative article. I am glad to learn Israel is doing such a good job of suppressing Arab terrorists and their misguided and/or vindictive supporters.

I have not personally been to one of the fence protests, but there are plenty all over YouTube. Every single one of them shows destruction of property, rioting, violent behavior. Gotta love it when all the leftists try to portray things as a bunch of nice people just holding signs, and singing peace songs.

You still have not answered Apa,s question in #9, please try again.

it is just the same bla,bla,bla,bla,bla

Almost 50% of the "Land of Israel" is Arab by population. 2.5 million Palestineans live in "Judea and Samaria" and dont get to vote in Israeli elections and are subject to IDF control , only Arab citizens of "Israel" which do not include most residents of East Jeruselem and all of "Judea and Samaria" have equal rights. So what is your point? The facts fit whatever you want them to.

nsm contrary to many posters ideas! TO MAKE A VALID POINT YOU HAVE TO KNOW WHAT YOU ARE WRITING ABOUT ! most posters score 0/10

about the suffering "innocent" people. Well, maybe I still do, slightly, but after too many incursions and violent acts by supposed innocents, topped by the Gaza adolescent who was being treated - gratis - at Soroka Hospital for facial burns suffered in a domestic accident and one day tried to clear security with explosives, declaring her intention to detonate in the most populated area of the hospital, I'm over my sympathy. Let these people care for themselves, or not. If most want peace, they have a hell of a warped way of showing it.

"There is an internal document that has not been leaked, or perhaps has not even been written," That pretty much summarizes Amira Hass's approach to journalism. She is sometimes an interesting read, but she lives in a fantasy land where things are simply as she wishes them to be. Sadly, her wishes are for an untenable situation that she can then complain about.

"Why wasn`t it build only on Israeli soil? It would have been legal." Would it have been legal to kill the Jews on the other side of it?

"Having been in the West Bank" That's nice. Have you been to a location being blown up by a bomber? "We know from Gandi and Martin Luther King that justice as the objective, peaceful resistance eventually prevails." We know from Gandhi and MLK that they never launched waves of bombers into their home countries. " It requires patience and commitment. The vast majority of the Palestinians are peaceful, and the world community is recognizing that. " The vast majority of Palestinians may be peaceful, but they have a higher rate of terrorist activity, per capita, than the world community will tolerate. Next time they have a successful bombing campaign, and thousands of them come out to pass out candy, you'll find that your statements are erroneous. There were NO homicide bombers among those who followed Gandhi's and MLK's philosophy.

"Shall we remember in 2003 when Hamas members who declared they were in favour of the "67 borders" were assassinated ? " I also remember they were conducting a very nasty terror campaign at that time.

"If the wall was to stop suicide bombers, why was it not built along the green line?" Because the suicide bombers kill Jews. Jews don't live within the green line. Jews have lived beyond the green line for thousands of years. The only time there were no Jews beyond the green line was when Egypt and Jordan ethnically cleansed them from 1948-67.

Israel's continued shift to the right resulting from Palestinian attacks against Israel.

With all the media propaganda out there, it's hard to keep the facts straight. Here are some: *Jordan has 80% Palestinian population. *In 1967, the territory commonly referred to as "West Bank", formally known as Judea and Samaria was taken from Jordan not the PLO. The act was a return for unsolicited aggression. *Arabs in Israel proper enjoy more civil rights than in any arab country. *Israel today, including Judea and Samaria, is the Biblcal land given to the Jews by God. *Jerusalem has been the capital of the Jews for almost 3 thousand years. *Palestinians as a people only came on the map in the 20th cen *Before the Jews returned to their God given homeland, it was a desease ridden swamp land. *The only problem the Muslims have with Jewish presense in Israel is that they have "infidels" living on their land. Since Jews were chosen by God and carried the banner on Allah about 1700 years longer, the Muslims have an arbitrary claim that is superceded by the original Bible

The world community and leftist Jews are completely useless at getting the Palestinians to accept Israel as a Jewish majority state so they focus all their energies at coddling the Palestinians in the hope that ever greater appeasement will do the trick. It hasn't. Palestinian demands are still for Israeli withdrawals and an unlimited flooding of Israel with Palestinians so as to overturn the Jewish majority there. Jews will continue settling their biblical territories until the world community and leftist Jews convince the Palestinians otherwise. What is colonies and occupation to Israeli critics is the Jewish biblical homeland to many Jews. Obsequious capitulation to non-Jews to curry their favour is not a trait of most Jews.

which bit is the colony sylvie ? the problem with left wing loonies is that they cannot see themselves or reality ! israel has a legal right to all of the land apportioned to it from the ottoman empire !! ITS NOT A CURATES EGG !!

r the fence is where ? READ UNSCR242/338 very intently and carefully! also treaty jordan/ israel 1995

have you read 80 cj ?? at the end of the trusteeship the terms do not change ! when israel became a member did the un decide on the sovereign borders of israel ? evidently not because the unscr242 did not recognise borders on the armistice lines!

labarse , are you saying an israeli court can change the un charter ?? funny is not the word for abog dweller brain !

2.5 million people live subject to arbitrary decisions that Israel makes--walls that grab their land, checkpoints that they must pass through to go to work--housing demolitions that just occur and they do not get to vote on any of it. What do you suggest they do--accept it? Settlers on the other hand have deep political rights and influence on all of those decisions. Who wouldn't throw rocks? What would Jews do if the tables were turned?

APA is dead right, and no one is answering his/her question: why was the wall not build on the Green Line? Answers coming backhandedly such as this or that mandate, "god" giving land, etc., will just not do. It all goes to show that Israel had and has no intention to give any land back which they either occupied or settled illegally. If Israelis want to know why there is rising anti-semitism, they need look no further than at themselves.

"the fence has been proven 100% successful in stopping suicide attacks , that is why the fence was built !" Why wasn't it build only on Israeli soil? It would have been legal.

Article 78 The trusteeship system shall not apply to territories which have become Members of the United Nations, relationship among which shall be based on respect for the principle of sovereign equality.

Having been in the West Bank, I have seen where Israel confronts peaceful demonstrators with military power. Israel arrests and detains those who speak-out loudly for justice. Israeli settlers instigate turmoil. We know from Gandi and Martin Luther King that justice as the objective, peaceful resistance eventually prevails. It requires patience and commitment. The vast majority of the Palestinians are peaceful, and the world community is recognizing that. Jews have been historically supporters of truth and justice. They have stood by those least able to help themselves. Many of us Jews are recognizing the truths of the occupation. We will continue to join with the world community in demanding justice and peace for the Palestinians.

Precisely so ! Israel's policy consisting in eliminating the palestinian moderates or those who are trying to reach a peaceful agreement. The 1st Intifada was a perfect example. This was a non-violent uprise from the palestinian population. Isrealis realised the existence of such people at that time. During the 1st Intifada hundreds of palestinians were emprisonned or killed. Shall we remember in 2003 when Hamas members who declared they were in favour of the "67 borders" were assassinated ? I totally agree with you Sylvie. Thank you so much for your honesty.

Israel, a democracy? Is that a joke?

perfectly said!

"#9 aga must learn that all the land is israel uncharter 1945 article 80 refers to 1922 mandate !" Victor harhead aka p harris The mandate was changed victoria---britain had the right to change the mandate and it did and the league of nations approved that change. The un Charter has nothing whatsoever to do with it. If you are in doubt then check case #2056/04 Beit Zourik V Israel in which the highest court in Israel--IHCJ ruled the West Bank to be held under "Belligerent Occupation" by Israel and Ergo that land cannot be sovereign Israeli territory as a sovereign cannot occupy it,s own land. But we know Paul---you dont care about laws do you. You just continue to pst legal fossils such as the 1922 mandate. It is dead ---finito----ende---forbei---asta la vista---cheerio---bye bye. Got it Victoria. BTW----THE NAME IS APA.

First of all you are reporting a fact all the way from Florida. So you found out about that from the internet, tv, radio...etc. But what about the facts that dont reach you which you therefore ignore? How about the families kicked out of their houses and their lands uprooted? How about the pregnant mother who was not allowed to pass through a check point and then miscarriages and dies herself... do those stories reach you? Because those are facts very much neglected in US media. Do more homework sweetheart

1. The green line has no significance, it is just where forces were when a cease fire was declared. It was drawn with a green pencil. 2. The topography of much of the WB is challenging, and it is impractical if not impossible to exactly follow an arbitrary route. 3. There are important Jewish cities to the east of the line.

who have been throwing rocks etc at Israeli soldiers. You support deadly force---do you????. "Does anyone not agree that these rock throwers should be met with deadly force." Jay bTW---Where are you psoting from Jay---are you ashamed of where you live????.

Long live justice!

uncharter 1945 article 80 refers to 1922 mandate !

You say that the wall was build to prevent suicide bombers. Although that is the guise and excuse of why it's there but think about it. Every wall that has ever been built for protection (Great wall of China for example) was built on one's OWN territory. Not on the OTHER side. This is the case here. This wall effectively separates the WB into small cantons in order to annex land. It penetrates into the heart of the WB and is not in Israel proper (Behind 1967 borders). Consequently, this prevents the Pals from building a sovereign/prosperous state while the Israelis can take more land and prolongs the establishment of a Palestinian state. So that when a final status is on the table The Israelis can say "oh well we have a lot going on there so we cant give it up"... this has been a pattern for years and in fact not even a secret. Remember Sharon's 'run to the hilltop' speech? Exactly.

Israeli authorities and their rightwing supporters (such as 'Victor H'. 'Peter SM' and 'Absolute Sweden') thrive on the violent actions of Palestinians. The more violent such acts the more deeply they can bury their heads in the sand, convincing themselves that the ongoing and systematic violation of Palestinians' human rights and the colonization of their land is morally justified. Non-violent popular resistance is, therefore, their worst nightmare. How to respond to this and keep up the pretence of moral superiority. That is why the authorities are so tough in dealing with the leaders of such resistance - expelling, imprisoning and threatening. They know that the success of such resistance spells the end to their dirty politics and dreams of 'Greater Israel'.

Peaceful protestors do not throw rocks at soldiers and civilians. There is an Palestinian little girl whose life was saved by an Israeli Colonel, who luckily for her was also a doctor. The peaceful protesters have doomed her to a life of paralysis, Does anyone not agree that these rock throwers should be met with deadly force.

Prisoner of conscience.

If the wall was to stop suicide bombers, why was it not built along the green line? Why build it in such a circling way to keep palestinians from their land? It is not like the fence runs the shortest easiest route - rather it takes a lot of turns.

Palestinians are seeking an end to the Jewish state and its replacement by an Arab Muslim state. That is the only dialogue they seek. That is what they want Jews to "listen to". Jewish lovers of perceived underdog causes haven't succeeded in changing any of that and the average Jews who makes up the bulk of the Israeli population will continue defending themselves notwithstanding the nudging of the far leftists.

Why not go and pass one where someone cares? KKK site better suited to you dearest. Bon Voyage

Thank you Amira. Your courage, wisdom and voice are a source of pride for the Jewish people. You help us to find our way back to true Jewish values of humanism.

Haaretz apparently hasn't reported this as yet (and may not do so in view of its political slant) but there was another attempted stabbing by an Arab of a security guard near the fence yesterday.

this woman has posted more bilge worldwide in 20 years than 10,000 ships ! the fence has been proven 100% successful in stopping suicide attacks , that is why the fence was built !

to free Shalit! Amira you are out of the jewish people.

..and any attempt to use military force against them will only quicken Israel's exit from the world stage....

The way forward for Palestinians is by effective PR-aware mass movement. Leave the suicide bombers behind, it only brought the Pal people hardship and no gain whatsoever as well as being morally reprehensible. Pals should arm themselves with cameras not guns for this struggle agains the theft of Pal land. Be prepared for more hardship. The world knows that the IDF are shooting unarmed demonatrators but more awareness of this needs to be brought out, oparticularly to the US. The stranglehold of Isreali PR control in the US must be chipped away at. Israel already has over 10,000 prisoners. How many more can thay take? Let the world see them fill their prison camps with peaceful Palestinians