Comment / Why has the left in Israel vanished?

"they still feel that time and numbers are on their side, so that they do not need to compromise." (Sam) Absolutely true. If only for this once. How refreshing, especially when coming from you. Not that we haven't been warned. "Time is against us. Demographically, it works for the Palestinians, and politically, in favor of Hamas and the settlers. [...] Among the Palestinians, the weight of the Islamists is growing, and also that of the intellectuals who long favored the idea of two states, but now are saying 'since the Israelis will never evacuate the settlements, well, eventually there will be a binational state." Ami Ayalon, former head of the Shin Bet, December 22, 2001. www.fmep.org/analysis/analysis/former-israeli-shin- bet-head-speaks-up-for-peace 42 years have passed, and most of the Israelis are still giving their votes to fools who dream to see, one day, an unquestioned Jewish rule on all Eretz-Israel, and a foreign and stateless population consenting to stay forever our silent and obedient subjects.

After the Gaza war Israel has been on a defensive mode. The left and the peace movement can relax and watch the challeges facing Israel. There are too many forces putting pressure on Israel to come to term with their neighbors. The left doesn't have to criticize Israel. Israel is being criticized even by U.S and U.N.

To a certain extent you are right, Common Sense. However, the disaster for Israel lies in the fact that they do not realize that time is running out. In 2-5 years there will be nothing to talk about (too many settlements, too little territories even for Bantustan states)and nobody to talk to - Israel is pushing every Palestinian to Hamas and worse. And what's then. A disaster! The world will not just stand by, and I doubt that we will have a Nelson Mandela within the Palestinian camp!

They are outside the tent pi**ing in. Not contributing to peace just getting people's backs up with their new history etc

commentary. I sent three well written posts, that deserve to see the light of day.

The problem in Israel is that every second person is an expert on what the government should or should not do. If you are so clever, run for the parliament and participate formally and contribute.

The main cause is Haaretz journal existence.

The left died because everyone who is not insane realizes that the Islamic fundamentalists in Arab countries and the social and political leaders of the Palestinians don't want peace alongside Israel, they want to erase Israel. They don't want peace with a Jewish state. So, sane members of the left moved to the middle. Only the radical, extreme, unreasonable, insane left, like Gideon Levy, still remains.

I have seen enough houses built in the middle of Samaria or the northern west bank for Jewish settlers who then need military protection, special roads, private security, etc. As a major donor to Israel I realized that the money I send for Israel to defend itself on the Lebanese border, the Syrian border and further afield is being used to pay for the aforementioned settlements which have absolutely no military value. I am not subsidizing this settler lifestyle any more. And those friends of mine who listen to my advice will hear the same from me.

Hezbollah to the north, Hamas to the south, and another Iranian proxy army waiting to seize control the moment the IDF leaves Judea and Samaria. The Sea will become our only peaceful border. European democratic nations struggling with their own disenfranchised and disillusioned Muslim minorities take the Arab position and seek to deprive us of the right of self-defense. The US arbitrates in an even-handed fashion between terrorists and defenders from terrorism. Sadly, that is our situation in the Mid-East. If elections were held today, the Israeli left would disappear. Laor doesn't understand why. He just clings to his ship-wrecked ideology hoping the sharks have eaten enough.

There were other nations that suffered occupation, but once they discovered that killing the occupier no longer works. The Macedonians were "the Palestinians" of the Balkans--they assassinated a king, for God's sake. Eventually, they became part of a Yugoslavian Republic. After forty odd years, they became the Former Yugoslavian Republic of Macedonia. During the "Yugoslavian" years the Macedonians developed a civil society. Heck, they even have problems with Albanians crossing the border illegally looking for a better life. The bottom line is stop complaining, stop . . . If the Macedonians could do it by building their own institutions with what they didn't have, so can you!

"I choose to side with MLK, Gandhi ... " (Jane) Thank you for letting me know with whom you are siding. Too bad you have not answered my point: It is not by using Gandhi's methods that we got ride of the British occupier. "The only way to settle the problem is around a negotiation table." (Jane) Did I say I am against negotiations? You are a dreamer with a sense of history, you said. Good for you. A sense of history is always helpful: Think Vietnam and Algeria, for instance. It took them much violence to bring an occupier to the negotiation table. We have now an Israeli PM declaring to be prepared to share the Land with a people whose very existence, up to Oslo, no Israeli leader would have acknowledged. I suggest you mull over it.

states that the common ground must be true. So Occams Razor would be this? The Universal Declaration of Human Rights http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr Neither Israelis nor Palestinians have those rights. You deny them each other.

... of Ben Gurion that empowered him to seek equality for all Jews worldwide, particularly the persecuted and disenfranchized... pacifism was by no means the gist of his ideology...

It only leads to more violence, innocent victims, deep seeded anger and resentment. The only way to settle the problem is around a negotiation table. I choose to side with MLK, Ghandi and other heroes throughout history who have brought their people to statehood by lifting hope and rising above thuggery and the power of the gun. Sorry, I am a dreamer but with a sense of history.

But it certainly hasn't vanished in total in Israel.Pacifism has alway's been the chief ingredient for all past left cultures. That being said,say's it all.

By looking at Israel's recent history I can see that the left tends to revive when: a) The public realizes that the rightist government can't deliver its promises and loses the public's support (e.g. Shamir when Bush I forced him to go to the Madrid Conference in 1991), or its coalition collapses (e.g. Bibi when he had to sign Hebron Protocol and Wye River Accords); b) The government fights a traumatic war, for Israelis (e.g. Begin and the 1982 Lebanon War, maybe the Four Mother's Movement too); c) When a prominent hawk becomes relatively moderate (e.g. Sharon's turn to the center-left with the disengagement). In all of these cases, the right must end up worn out and that takes time. Maybe the Americans will cause this by pressuring the current government, but it's going to be harder because Obama isn't popular in Israel. At last, Israel's chronic political instability means short governments (That's a bigger obstacle for peace than settlements in my opinion).

Yes, I agree with you, but I'm so pessimistic right now that I think that having extremists making things worse for some time is, sadly, part of the process. I think that while Bibi is putting obstacles to negotiations by not freezing settlement building, I think that the biggest obstacle right now is the Palestinian Civil War (that's what it is), which is something that Israel can't control without launching another war in Gaza. It's up to the Palestinians to get to a deal and reach a political solution to that. I think things will remain under a tense calm for some time, but maybe like you said in 2-5 years from now there could be a resurgence of terrorism and/or another war, I don't know. But, I think that you should wait until the right starts losing appeal. (will continue)

The claim of being vanished is exagerated. The Left simply disappeared, temporarily, into the Center and the Right. When Hamas will change their crazy politics, and aggression, into something normal and civilized, and start building houses and infrastructure instead of rockets and tunnels, the Israeli Left will re-appear very fast! I guarantee you that. But until then, forget the Left. Under the present circumstances we are all CONSERVATIVE about Israel!

"The left and right wings can only partner with a non-violent Palestinian independence movement." (Jane) You better stop dreaming. No "non-violent independence movement" can emerge from a stateless population occupied for 42 years, whose land is slowly eaten away by the occupier's settlements. When WE were occupied by the British army, no one among us was so foolish as to preach for non-violence as a way to gain our independence.

" ... if there was a corresponding left wing in the Palestinian population." (GD) Tell me. wise guy, have you ever heard of a Jewish peace camp preaching for peace with the British when WE were occupied, before May 14, 1948? "The Pals intentions are perfectly clear." (GD) Unless you start calling things by their real names you will never understand what is going on here. In the context you are using it, the term "the Palestinians" is completely senseless, now more than ever, divided as they are into two opposing camps, each sworn enemy of the other, approximately equal in numbers, and unable to reconciliate. As for the Palestinian "peace camp", here it is, for your much needed education: "Yesterday, in my speech to the United Nations, I said that you're a man of peace who believes in a two-state solution. And after our conversation today, you once again confirmed that. [...] I fully understand that in order to achieve this vision, there must be leaders willing to speak out and act on behalf of people who yearn for peace, and you are such a leader, Mr. President." Pres. Bush to Chairman Abbas, Sep 20, 2006. www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/bush092006.html

"The Palestinians, for their part, did not always help..." You've just answered your own question.

An important question is why you dont see as much leftist movements (or more specifically peace and progressive movements) from the Palestinians. People in these forums seem to forget that Palestinians have been under a brutal occupation for decades. That does something to you. Israelis are subject to homemade rockets and fear but the Palestinians had many high-tech bombs hit them, agriculture uprooted, houses demolished, road blocks, check points...etc basically worse than terror and the denial of all kinds of rights. I'm not saying killing civilians is justified but ultimately if you live in that environment with the sense of hopelessness and neglect, you naturally develop a will to resist the occupation, not to embrace the perpetrators and give them peaceful hugs and kisses. I know many of you will reject this and will counter it with your side. I am only trying to make you understand what life under occupation does to you psychologically. Responses are welcome

The peace camp understood that while in Israel they fight for a Palestinian state, there were no Palestinanian organisations that tried to explain to the Palestinian public the rights of the Israeli people. Finaly they understood that 2 states for 2 people is only possible if the Palestinians also recognizes the Israeli rights.

But you can't fool all of the people all of the time. Over the years most of the left's supporters woke up.

The problem s outsider - that the right will controll the dialogue for the next 2 - 5 years. In that time you can reasonably expect more harsh sanctions on Gaza equaling more Hamas militancy & rocket terror attacks, more "Fear Up" on the Iranian threat and Hizbollah, more settlements, more demolitions, growing west bank militancy from lack of progress. The truth is, like giving up smoking, there is no ideal time for action. If anything, now is the time for the left to reappear, when you finally have a US president who is engaged. I agree completely with your views on peace, but while the Pal and Israeli left is inactive, the extremists on both sides make ground.

The leftist Jewish belief that the "downtrodden" Palestinians will surely accept a Jewish state if the Palestinians are appeased enough is brushed off by the Palestinians.The Palestinians don't want a Jewish state and they still feel that time and numbers are on their side so that they do not need to compromise.

Unilateral declaration of sta tehood is in direct violation of then Oslo accords.What I find interesting is that the same commentators on the left who are in favor of unilateral statehood declaration regularly condemn Israel for violating these same accords. By the way the left has died because the Israeli people aren't stupid. It is clear to anyone with eyes that what interests the Palestinians is not having a state but rather in the Jews not having a state.

Now that the Left has dropped much of its emphasis on Social issues, Shas and the National Religious sector has taken up the gauntlet. The result is that when the abuses of "Wisconsin" reached the press, it was Shas that pressed for the changes. When the remittances to the Single Parents and others whose benefits were being cut, Shas and the religious sector threatened to leave the coalition. Did you hear the Secular Left say anything? It's too bad that a movement that touted the idea of Progress for the Working People have become post-Zionists that no longer represents the lower precentiles.

....for the continued occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem. Saying all the right things, writing all the right words, but with a few exceptions (B'etselem, Women in Black etc.) doing absolutely nothing, no big street demonstra- tions, no campaign of civil disobedience, nope, absolutely nothing at all. Don't get me wrong, I would not have expected such a ("solidarity") effort during the height of the Intifada, but one surely could have expected it during the past couple of years....

"The Palestinians, for their part, did not always help, at least not during the first two decades of the occupation." That's one way to describe launching terror wars that kill thousands of people - "not helping."

The Left wing in Israel committed suicide because instead of being social democrats, they became a one-issue amalgamation of politics and activists: peace with the Palestinians by withdrawal from the territories. There was almost no talk about social platforms, economic platforms, environment, trade, jobs. Nothing except peace at the price of land. Then, Ariel Sharon did the unthinkable and the presumed impossible: he forcibly removed all the Israeli settlers from Gaza and closed each and every settlement down. The result was chaos in Gaza and thousands of rockets fired at Israeli civilians. Yet the Left went into the last elections insisting that land-for-peace was the ONLY issue. The Israeli electorate, therefore, abandoned the Left and their false dreams. That's why they are vanishing. Too bad, because the parties that pre-date Meretz used to do lots of good.

The Israeli left wing would have more power if there was a corresponding left wing in the Palestinian population. Since we have never seen left wing palestinians looking for peace then what is the point in supporting left wing Israelis. The Pals intentions are perfectly clear - why should Israelis be the suckers!

The simplest reasons probably are: A failed peace process, a failed disengagement (more exactly, a failed "post-disengagement"), terrorism, war. Maybe Israel will turn to the left in a 2-5 years from now, but when you had Meretz supporting a military action in Gaza last Decemeber to stop the rockets launched by Hamas and others, How can you talk about peace? How can you expect the Israeli left to have any strength the doves call for war? How can you ask people to vote for doves when they are implicitly admitting hawks were right? I strongly support the two-state solution based on 1967 borders and dividing Jerusalem, but it's hard to speak for that kind of common sense in this context. So, when the context changes, probably the left will suddenly reappear. And that could perfectly take some 2-5 years from now.

I have read many articles/commentaries on this conflict and Laor's stands out; it is sharp, concise, truthful.... almost poetic, as the occupier joins the occupied. I commend Israel (and Haaretz) for its free and independent press.

It sounds like an old rerun movie late at night, the same song, just a bad soundtrack, their apology for Palestinian inability to come to terms with Israels reality, existence, makes the left completely irrelevant

freedom of speech is the most important human right. the much maligned zionist state has given yitzhak laor and many others the right to criticise the zionist state even under conditions of war. all of us are waiting for even one iota of this freedom of speech to be allowed in palestinian society. what we witness instead is the heavy hand of palestinian authorities denying their people freedom of expression. we are waiting for hamas to allow criticism of its conduct since coming to power in gaza. rather, we know that opponents are killed or intimidated. fatah and the pa are hardly more accepting of criticism. it is of course right that we expect the jewish state to be an example in human rights. however, such expectations should not ignore the reality that the state has been able to build a strong, if imperfect, democracy under conditions that few other states face. sabras are not fully aware of these blessings. they never had to fight for freedom of speech.

The one glaring ommission in Mr. Laor's op-ed is this - Israelis left and right are not blind, deaf and dumb and witnessed years of terrorist attacks within Israel. When the attacks stop for a reasonable period of time, people will start to have hope again and maybe then the left will rise again. When Israel is under attack we are all right everywhere in the world. Afterwards we rip ourselves apart and the world joyfully joins in. The left and right wings can only partner with a non-violent Palestinian independence movement. It is what it is.

In the second paragraph, the author lays out "the simple explanations." The Occam's Razor principle (although officially more nuanced) states that "the 'simplest explanations' tend to be the right ones." (Of course, there is that pesky qualifier, "tends to be"....)

i think this editorial ignores the actual dangers posed by hamas, but more importantly, the dangers posed by declaring a palestinian state that is fractured. Which half of this independent palestinian state would you have this left support? would we have two states? one run by a terrorist organization and one by and inept government whose head is quitting soon? i think there needs to be peace, but Israel has shown in the past their willingness to give up land for peace, and have gotten lasting peace out of it (even though i feel that any land won in war is your's to have) it seems the only thing they really wan to keep hold of is jerusalem, and the palestinians won't have that. Well though crap. They have no bargaining chips, and if their lives are as terrible as the media and they claim, they should be more than happy to give up one concession for peace. But they refuse to even come to the table to talk. In fact, they won't even recognize Israel's right to exist

The left is vanishing because it has begun to realize that the conflict with the Arabs is existential. The reality is that if the Arabs win - Israel loses and will disappear. The mere presence of a Jewish country (Israel) is an anathma to most Arabs. The Arabs are wiser than the Jewish left. A weaker Israel is to their advantage. They will work to that end. Hopefully Israelis are coming to their senses and abandoning the naivity of the ideological left. This item by Yitzhak Laor and most articles appearing in Haaretz should be read critically for they reflect outdated beliefs that undermine the country.

Growing up in Iran I was brain-washed with anti-Israeli propaganda. It is when I read writing like this coming out of Israel that I am reminded of the humanity of Israelis.

can move most normal people to the right