Children of war

Very nicely said,Kath,to the condescending,patronizing female Johnboy,otherwise known as Dana,and I'm sure she has a few other aliases. Fairly sickening for sure.

Long post,empty and cynically expressed. How dare you say:But of course numbers are only good when it serves the interests of Israel. So, your assuption is that Israel kills children.You seem to forget the children killed are the ones their parents send them as "jihadis" and glorify in death by showering sweets after the event.Hey there Marlene,wake up and smell the coffee.Israel does not go around killing innocent children and Israelis/Jews love children and do not use them as "cannon fodder" to gain their objective. You had better turn it up side down and admit the Arabs/Palis just love DEATH and Israel/Jews LOVE LIFE.Don't presume too much by twisting to prove with empty words which are just simply stupid rhetoric. You do not gain any credence, but sound ludicrous too.Give it up before you make a bigger fool of yourself,struth!!!!

In the scheme of things dana? We don't know anything about your background.A well kept secret and wonder why? Are you perhaps an Arab/Muslim or an outer space pod/cone? I put you in the role of a clown,whereby we can attach a ?cone? on your head,make you stand up in the corner of the ?classroom? and make you recite ad-nauseum the usual long blather you put out here-albeit loquaciously time and again. Methinks what pleasure you derive from this? Unless you are so terribly committed a being thus: ?A Humanist?.A humanist? How methinks a person be one when presentation is in the singular and NOT on a par, or conducive to the general norm. Anyway dana once in that corner we will enjoy your discomfiture(for your sins). What is more we deserve the laughter after having to dodge your twisted diatribes treating us as some ?dummkopfs? .Not very nice don?t you think hmmm? I for one am never impressed by your pronouncements, and think you are too single minded for my taste. We have deep concerns and need not furtherance from you. Be it ?pod? or ?cone? okay? Why waste your time and the effort. When Canada Peter called you NADA,I concurred,sorry. Better luck next time with ChanahS,WWACD,and the rest of our crew you enumerated,bless them all. Remember, good thoughts no matter how altruistic make not ?logical person?

In the scheme of things dana? We don't know anything about your background.A well kept secret and wonder why? Are you perhaps an Arab/Muslim or an outer space pod/cone? I put you in the role of a clown,whereby we can attach a ?cone? on your head,make you stand up in the corner of the ?classroom? and make you recite ad-nauseum the usual long blather you put out here-albeit loquaciously time and again. Methinks what pleasure you derive from this? Unless you are so terribly committed a being thus: ?A Humanist?.A humanist? How methinks a person be one when presentation is in the singular and NOT on a par, or conducive to the general norm. Anyway dana once in that corner we will enjoy your discomfiture(for your sins). What is more we deserve the laughter after having to dodge your twisted diatribes treating us as some ?dummkopfs? .Not very nice don?t you think hmmm? I for one am never impressed by your pronouncements, and think you are too single minded for my taste. We have deep concerns and need not furtherance from you. Be it ?pod? or ?cone? okay? Why waste your time and the effort. When Canada Peter called you NADA,I concurred,sorry. Better luck next time with ChanahS,WWACD,and the rest of our crew you enumerated,bless them all. Remember, good thoughts no matter how altruistic make not ?logical person?

http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=jsgegecab.0.rrwegecab.iqnuv6bab.31880&ts=S0276&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.informationclearinghouse.info%2Farticle18303.htm can you feel some sadness for these children?

Sorry, Angela. Forgot to add your late entry to the Pod people, but not to worry ~ you are now in the `arabs are all disgusting category`, with the following two great nominees: `How dare you suggest that a Muslim Army would behave with morals` (angela 1) Because, by definition, only Israeli armies have morals ~ I do believe they honestly try not to murder children under the age of 8. After that, it may be too late because those cartoon watching, brain washed Arab children are already terrorists. Worse yet ~ they might even grow up to resist the occupation, or entertain radical, disgusting thoughts of breaking out of Gaza jail, making alliances and what not. `Teaching children hate and teaching them how to become suicide bombers- is this taking the `moral high ground`?` (angela 2) Good one. Israeli soldiers -~some children themselves ~ are only taught – from infancy – that it`s OK to despise and terrorize the civilian palestinian population (what occupation?) but without quite killing them ~ or themselves ~ especially if cameras are around. They even learn that bombing from the air is best – no chance of dying in the process – so no self~sacrifice issues or other embarrassing connection to the victims. Later we can talk about the POW shalit (or is he a political prisoner – like the hamas and fatah soldiers languishing in Israel`s jail?)

The children are always the ones who suffer from war. What I read is sickening. Have people no sense of decency anymore? This is totally unexceptable and to say the very least, sad, disheartning, and disgusting.

NICK FERRIMAN Again with your ETHNIC CLEANSING stuff, At first you say I am right, the casualty figures do not yet of themselves indicate that genocide has occurred, and then you go on with that old stuff on ETHNIC CLEANSING! Guess what nick catch up with us in a 120 years from now and we won?t get to the figures you are so eager to hear of that would indicate some genocide or ETHNIC CLEANSING! Nick I have no intention in showing no remorse or objection to the process of ethnic cleansing, because by definition ETHNIC CLEANSING does not exist in the Israeli Arab conflict (not that the Arabs didn?t try it in 1948 they just didn?t succeed)! NICK we Israelis are at war, in which the two sides are participating and trying to wear out each other! Yes people are dying but on both sides, when will you as a bystander acknowledge that? or are you really a bystander?

Silvienne WHAT A POOR EXCUSE are you giving, by saying: We are not discussing Rwanda or Darfur. We are discussing Israel and the Palestinians. Therefore, their statistics don`t enter into this debate Well Silvienne we are talking about all fellow people, it doesn?t matter if he comes from Rwanda, Darfur, or former Yugoslavia which you forgot to mention (and for a good reason too, because it frightens you to see how a western civilization got mad and frantic), those countries which you dismiss are equally reliable for their actions as people living in Israel, Germany, UK, and the US of A, they are judged the same and for that reason they get an equal stand in the United Nations! Silvienne their would be times I would be ashamed to be an American, there would be times I would be ashamed to be an European, so don?t you come lecture me with that line of, who Israel has to line itself to!

Marilyn make your anlogy to Iraq and Sadam By the way we are not booming them for what they elected but for their Hotspa to boom us after we withdrew from Gaza, farther more for they are astablishing a scond Lebanon on our South end of our country

The people of Gaza are being starved to death while the IDF murder the children and the world yawns. It is a shameful disgrace and some of the responders here are surely not even remotely able to be called human. You are talking about little kids already trapped in the world's largest concentration camp because their parents dared to elect a government Israel didn't want. Well damn it all the rest of the world don't want Olmert but we are not bombing Israel and killing her children.

they are not ALL terrorists, they are alleged terrorists, meaning they are accused of but no proof, like i can accuse YOU of being a moron, but in my case, i have proof, and 212 as opposed to 7, wow, thats pretty impressive yes? disproportinate force and apartheid rears it's ugly head yet again.

first ilya, the topic here is not aborigines, and as i have stated before i do things here to support there rights, which they have more than us, secondly, this is a typical zionist reaction which by you all scream " look at your situation first", some do and some don't, i DO, but again, the topic here is children of war, we don't do what israel does to the same extent, so don't go accusing us of exactly the same treatement, cause we do alot more good than bad.

Close your eyes to pity. Harden your hearts. Nits make lice. Oh wait, we've heard that before. Somewhere...

I think Mr. Levi with the entire HAARETZ team should move to Sderot and sign up there for the whole year throuh. It'll cost them small change because nobody wants to rent there any property. Mr. Levi is too rich to use buses like simple people do, so he doesn't know what is the feeling to get into the bus every morning in Israel. That is the only way to prove your sicerity, Mr. Levi. Otherwise it's cheap talk. Everybody understands that journalist writes a big article for biger money.

How can you judge a nation's reaction to an incident simply by the responses on a website? I, as an Israeli, can tell you that I am deeply saddened whenever children are hurt or killed. It doesn't matter to me whether they are Jewish or Arab - to me they are just children. The IDF doesn't target children. The Palestinians admitted that they had deliberately targeted the school.

I seriously believe that she suffers from sociopathological psychosis. Think about it, she's never said a single word that even remotely invoking any thought process. AND this is the only way her psychosis is able to manifest, being a muslim woman of third worldist mentality and surrounding. She makes an excellent subject for a bored psychologist. I can imagine her psychotic laughters after reading the reactions to her posts!

How dare you suggest that a Muslim Army would behave with morals. How dare you take the moral high ground after what happend in the Lebanese refugee camp recently and in the Gaza Strip. How dare you take this line after we saw such terrible scenes of Arabs killing Arabs in the Gaza Strip. Only yesterday someone from Khan Youis wrote on 'Talkback' pleading for help against Hamas for the citizens of Gaza. Teaching children hate and teaching them how to become suicide bombers- is this taking the 'moral high ground'?

Interesting, I am not opposed to disagreement--not at all but somethings are as plain as daylight. The settle- ments and settlers are in violation of the law. There is nothing to really disagree with. Dutch P.S. A historical connection maybe nice and fine. However, it isn't the basis for a proper legal claim.

Lakshmi, Greeting to you too! Thank you for speaking out and filling me on some added details. The idea of an International Tribunal is long overdue. Those soldiers must be held to account for their war crimes. They can't roam free while their counterparts are locked up. What horrible double standards! In my own writings, I will to emphasize how the Israeli rmy is failing repeatedly to hold its soldiers accountable for their HR abuses and failing to abide by international standards of injury. On this count alone their military aid should be withheld. Dutch P.S. Between you and me I don't feel those soldiers are taught proper law enforcement or proper terms of engagement either. I wonder whose is charge of this? ( If anyone is .)

So we should always agree with U.S. Supreme Court decisions as well I suppose because the authority of the insitution is such that it brooks no disagreement? In a democractic society such as the U.S. do you often hear people argue that a number of Supreme Court justices agree and that's enough for me? Certainly not among those who have developed the critical faculties necessary for living in a democracy. But it is enough for those with the inclination to rely excessively on authority in making their judgment, as you do.

Chaim, Fourteen justices on the panel of the International Court said you are in violation of International law & must be removed. Now that's enough for me and the rest of the world. Not even the enabler of the occupation former Chief Justice Barak could argue with this. Still, who needs a chief justice to understand the terms of the 4th Geneva Convention when they are so direct? "The occupying shall not deport or transfer part of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies." And as Dr. David Kretzmer explains in his scholarly column Israel cannot give the settlers land it doesn't own. Dutch http://www.occupationalhazard.org/article.php?IDD=673

I don't know about the Israelis being punished, but it's punishment enough for the rest of us to read your posts, which are the work of a vindictive and massively limited mind.

Hello Gideon Levy, Isn't it ironic while many Israelis remain in- different to the suffering of the Palestinian people others I know have become increasily indifferent towards them. Hence they will pay a price for their indiffer-ence among others and far more than they can possibly imagine as the American scholar and philosopher Ralph Waldo Emerson noted in 1844 "It is a doctrine alike of the oldest and of the newest philosophy, that man is one, and that you cannot injure any member, without a sympathetic injury to all the members." Dutch

Best-in-Show - selected Nominations: `If someone is launching missiles at Israel, or even just hanging around playing the role of human shield, then their life is forfeit and it does not matter whether they are two or two hundred years old’ (Efox, US) ‘Fortunately, Israeli society holds its children precious and valuable, not as shields like the Gazans do with their kids.’ (Gina) `if you are killed by a 10 year old or a 20 year old, you are dead either way, so why in the world would it be wrong to kill the 10 year old before he kills you?’ (vik, NY) `Some advise to the Palestinian children: Next time run away in the 5 minutes you have got, like the terrorists that shoot those rockets and ran!’ (Gil, Israel) `Our security is more important to me than their security. So stop this self-flagellating guilt and stop crying for our enemies. If they had the means, they would kill every one of us including you.`(David Stoler)

Congratulations to today`s All Pod Stars (snatched in both body and mind) who submitted their entries. We are delighted to inform our TB audience that we have reached a new high (No. entries) for our Lowest morals Category. So far over 70 posters were deemed eligible from the Levy hate crowd and counting. Especially well represented among the most insensitive are Anglos from: US (see Jon Feigenbaum and J. J. Doring from Florida, Daniel Friedman of NY) Israel (Yishai Kohen, Nerys and WWACD, among others) Canada (check out Peter and Frank) UK (Briton, Steven A) Noteworthy entries were also received from the always-reliable Australian Pod PETER SM, Crooning Irish drone Victor Hardman, passionate Scandinavian Pod~Duo Absolute Sweden (SW) and N. Orsman (Norway), and token Latin Pod~Masters albert (AG) and Enrique (Costa Rica). Not to mention our countryless/homeless/nameless Pods and Drones such as gina, ken jurist, ChannahS, Richard, Nemesis, and one Dr, David I Gross. We do encourage our Cones to turn in their entries too – there will be a special category for them (cipora and Margie? Jeff Northridge?). Nominations are now solicited for best~in~show categories such as: Most callous, Blood-Thirstiest and Best self-righteous Gentile. We hope to also present a lifetime achievement award to the most mindless in the `Good Arab is a dead Arab` category (Arabs may include children ~ no lower age limit).

no doubt you can explain arab passivity when occupied by the otommans, british , jordan and egypt but comes to the boil only when israel is involved ! your wit is like a lead balloon !

CONTINUATION.There has been so far over 260 comments.Everybody is fighting everybody,and the result? NOTHING! Forget about Gideo Levy and Amira Hess. They are the " poison of Israel " as to Karl Marx's "Poison of mankind".If by a concentrated effort, will power or miracle, we collectively stopped reading them,the Haaretz will have no other choice but to print the love letters exchanged between Gideon and Amir.

Simple facts?.Palis/muslim mothers are only too PROUD to offer their little one as martyrs.The VENERABLE Khomemeni sent untold kids to be butchered (1000's?)on the mine fields of the Iraq/Iran war,and the country was PROUD. Hamas PROUDLY showing little kids in uniform,training with guns,belts (the killers of tomorrow).Little girls are fed standard "muslim poetry";how many jews are you going to kill?.Pregnant arab/muslim mothers are PROUD to strap on their bellies TNT and kill as many jews as possible.So much for the care, love,education of their "loved one" REPLY to Chandigarth from Punjad:The Palis,party of god,islamic jihad,"et all"are a reflection of muslim/arab society as a whole....It's actions mirror that of muslim/arab society,etc,etc,etc. REPLY to justice 4 all--Palestine: YES,Israeli child is worth more than Palis child--simply put,he is no taught to hate,mame,kill by his parents and teachers;instead,love and care is instilled in early chilhood. SEE NEXT

VH: "consider that if qassams are not fired into israel daily there would be no israeli response !!!!!!" A comment that is contradicted by the very article he is writing his talkback post under: Levy: "Anyone who takes an honest look at the progression of events during the past two months will discover that the Qassams have a context: They are almost always fired after an IDF assassination operation, and there have been many of these." The QASSAMS are the response, not the Israeli attacks on Palestinians i.e. you have it backwards. Still, that radical concept is never likely to penetrate your skull, is it victor?

You talk about children of war? Who has been initiating all killings in the Middle East since 60 years ago? Remember Maalot?

Peter, before you continue spreading little untruths about people, here is what Whodey said about Kuntar on the same thread mentioned above: "Steph, I have to agree with you on Samir kuntar. According to everything I have read, he committed a brutal crime and I don't see what excuse anyone can bring for the murder of innocent people, specially children. I can understand the reluctance or refusal to release kuntar. I would even go as far as to say " lock his cell door and throw away the key." Peter, You should be ashamed of yourself for the stuff you are spreading.

please let us know which sovereign country is occupied?

Victor Hardman, your advice to William should have said that if it wasn't for the Israeli occupation, there would be no qasams. I guess as a settler yourself in occupied Northern Ireland, you must sympathize with your fellow squatters in the occupied Palestinian territories.

They same people that embushed and executed Tali Hatuel and four daughters at close range (may-2004)Are now using their own children as human shields. The gunmen with AK-47 shot and forced her car off the road, then a blank point shot repeatedly and the children while still in their car seats. Since she was six months pregnant, they shot her tummy; right at her womb, at blank point... let's don't forget this. This is the kind of people were are dealing with, they are no jews in gaza anymore, and still they want more blood,

And that's what it is. At any rate if it makes the Arabs happy, that's all that matters and its money in your pocket. Never mind the Israelis [what you are] they will survive and so will you.

The IDF cares about the survival of the State of Israel and of its 7,000,000 inhabitants. The IDF does not use children to fight its wars. That is a specialty of the other side.

william you display total igfnorance of history and cause and effect! consider that if qassams are not fired into israel daily there would be no israeli response !!!!!!

Joe, it is unfortunate as you said but the unlearned lesson you mentioned is really about the evils of occupation. Until that horrible occupation ends, the violence will not stop and the continued killing in vain that you are forcing on your young lads will come back to haunt them and you as did the Vietnam war for the Americans. You guys have to realize that you cannot kill 5 million people so why continue the agony of the occupation and land thefts?

Richard Silverstein, thank you for your positive thoughts on the subject. I'm an avid reader of your thoughts on your Tikun Olam blog and have quoted from your writings at shalom-salaam.net I wish more Jews would speak up for fair play as you do.

My rational for the NEED by the Jewish people for a country to be their save heaven was base don hystory: 2000 yeras of persecution by Rome, its decendent the Cristian Church ( Inquisition, God killers libel, etc etc) Russian Progroms, Arab progroms and presections, and their dihimi status under the Arab empires, and then the Holocoust. About 40 yeras ago one would have thought that the World had changed: Europe was still in schock for what they had done, and had allowed to happen, and the World had meade the commitment ?NEVER AGAIN?. Since then we have seen in Cambodia and Rwanda, and in much smaller scale in Bosnia that ? Never Again? means nothing at all! And more recently the emergence of the Lakshamis Paulos Lebras, and their ilk, show clearly that Europe has find a new form to go back to its old ways. We, the Jews NEED Israel more than ever? This time they will not take us by surprise.. we'll fight them to death! When the time comes count me IN. in the meanwhile many of us in the GOLA will keep making our humble contribution by sending a check to the IDF.

Some of us think that the Jewish Homeland would be different - a shining beacon that enlightens us all in the ME - "BANKRUPT ISLAMIC SOCIETY" as you labelled it. Shooting children may be justified from the IDF's perspective. But this general "couldn't-care-less" attitude among Jews dims the beacon somewhat. What's the difference then between hauling Jewish children off to the ovens and just shooting them? Some of us may have to re-look the way we look up to Israel. Many of you have inadvertently helped us to take a long hard look at Israel, the Jewish State. Definitely no more automatically coming to the defence of Israeli actions against her neighbouring people.

Peter, you know very well of my feelings on Kuntar and other child killers from having read them often enough on shalom-salaam to know that I have no use for this man. You should be ashamed of using cheap sensationalist tricks to attract sympathy. I disagree with Israel on a lot of things but Kuntar is not one of them. You were still with the forum on April 26th when I said to ODP: "ODP, kidding aside, neither Maral nor Karim would condone what kuntar did. This guy should remain the guest there and the key thrown away." in post 34745: http://shalom-salaam.net/forum/index.php?t=msg&goto=34745&&srch=Kuntar#msg_34745

running over landmines in return for martyrdom and paradise. The Pals send their children to fetch missile launchers confront troops and carry out martyrdom missions. Which interpretation of the Q'uran allows that?

The IDF must go after the Israel's enemies even if they use children as human shields. According to the international laws, the blame is with those who deliberately expose children.

Judea and Samaria belong to Israel by virtue of 6,000 years of history, the fact that it was part of the Jewish Homeland Mandate and the fact we won Judea & Samaria in a defensive. The victor in a defensive war never "pays the price of peace". We will have peace when our enemies stop shooting at us. It couldn't be simpler. There are no Jewish "illegal settlers" in Israel. It is impossible to be an "illegal settler" in one's Homeland.

Repeat a lie many times and it will become as if it were the truth, there are no lenghts that Mr. Levy will not go to delegitimize Israel and the Jews, Israels enemies do not have to write anything, they only have to reproduce Haaretz, the hate shown to Israel and the Jewish people through the talkbacks that are posted in Haaretz are beyond understanding. It is unbelibable that Jews and a Jewish website are spreading this torrent of hate against Israel and the Jewish people

but a recent article in JP comparing accident/death rates of Jewish/Arab children finally gave me a clue. Think Fate/Karma/Allahs Will....some do not believe a child can have an accident before the age of 2. If I've got it right, this means that unfortunate occurances are G-ds will and therefore one must submit, and most certainly not try to prevent. In one of her early Books Shirley MacLaine told the story of a child who was left to drown because "it was her karma." Interfering by saving her was not the thing to do; religion before survival. The National (Israeli) Center for Child Safety & Health contributed stats, so if JPost doesn't have it archieved maybe you can find it there.

Israel should indeed be more carefull when it comes to palestinian children. There has got to be another way to stop the kassans than shooting and killing 10 years old kids. That should be a question of principle. Israel should refuse to kill children of such young age.

Likewise.

I will give the site another shot. Just because you worked to suggest it. :)

These "people" have been killing members of my family for over 60 years. - War after war- tried to KILL "the Jews", and drive into the sea the Jews that were left THEIR WORDS. Suicide bombers in cafes, bus stops, schools, shopping malls blown up year after year. If yhere is anyone who is LUCKY - it is after ALL they have TRIED (and still are) to do to the Jewish people, they weren't driven out of the land completely. NOW =when there is violence JEWS hit back HARD. When you rocket Jews Jews hit back HARD, Violence will stop as SOON as yours does- YHAY SIMPLE....REALLY , Mr, not woth a clingon on my anus.

Peter, you know very well of my feelings on Kuntar and other child killers from having read them often enough on shalom-salaam to know that I have no use for this man. You are using cheap sensationalist tricks to attract sympathy and a wrong way to kick off your olivebranch forum with Margie. I have many disagreemnts with Israel but Kuntar is not one of them.

The IDF is responsible for the defense of israeli citizens. IDF would be derelict in its duty if if failed to defend the children of Sderot simply because Hamas refuses to live up to its responsibility for protecting the children of gaza. It's a sad situation that the poor pathetic gazans are suffering because of their foolish support of Hamas.

"If you fire missiles at random into any city in the world, including an Israeli city, you should not complain when the army of that country, in this case Israel, fires back at you" If you conduct a military occupation of any country in the world, you should not complain when the citizens of that country fight back. Yes, it is simple, isn't it?

"THERE ARE CLOSE TO 20 MILLION ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS IN YOUR COUNTRY" (Paul Harris's caps) Yes, we know that, Paul. Perhaps the solution would be for America to build a wall just like the one weaving in and out of the West Bank, complete with electric sensors, guard towers, and soldiers with shoot-to-kill orders. On second thoughts, Paul, we'll leave that sort of thing to Israel.

We are not discussing Rwanda or Darfur. We are discussing Israel and the Palestinians. Therefore, their statistics don't enter into this debate. Do you really want Israel to line herself up with countries like Rwanda and Darfur, rather than Europe and America? I would think Israel would be ashamed to do so.

"Would you feel better if there were more dead Israelis then Palestinians?" No, I would not. I do not want anyone to have to die there. But the amount of Palestinians dead compared to the amount of Israeli dead shows something about proportionality. You say war is not proportional. Don't forget that one side is armed with the best weaponry my country can provide, and the other side has homemade rockets, AK47s and stones.

Dutch is the name the poster you are addressing uses. Not "Doris M. Cadigan". The next time you post her name on an Internet forum, let's see you post your own name right next to it. Fair is fair, now isn't it?

I wonder if the DEA in USA would be able to justify murdering children who were involved in delivering drugs? Drugs kill don't they? Therefore killing children who deliver drugs is a legitimate action, correct? See, I understand logic too. If children are collecting pieces of metal, the kassam launchers, then they are targets. Children world-wide are targets when they play with fire, they get fired upon. Its a sick and cruel world.

"ferriman can you give the ratio for iraq?" No, because we aren't debating Iraq. We are talking about Israel and Palestine. Why do you want to go off topic?

My Dear Sister Indrjaya, You are an embarasment to our faith! How a muslim person can be so stupid to ignore a long list of suicide bombings in cafes, pizzarias and buses, where innocent young mothers with their babies fell victims to religious fanatics?! You should shame yourself! You should be stoned for embarassing our faith!

If terrorists use their neighbords as shields; if they fire qassans from populated areas and let children pick up the launchers while they "run" away; if terrorists use their relatives as cover, they will be responsabible for the deaths of innocents, including children Now if parents are aware of the movements "qassan squads" in the area, and don't supervise their children, and let their children help as dispatchers or bystand or "play tag" near the launching site and if they as parents-citizens don't prevent or secure their area from "rocket launcher squads", they will be responsable. Remember some rockets even land into their backyards When civilians allow terrorists to use them, then civilians become legitimate targets.

Continuing with massacres by Arabs against Jews during the first Arab-Israeli War: the ambush of a Jewish convoy travelling to Hadassah Hospital, under the protecting colors of the Red Cross. Seventy-seven Jewish doctors, nurses, teachers, and students were killed in the attack. (Tessler, A History of the Palestinian-Israeli Conflict, Indiana University Press, 1994, p. 300). Also, the massacre of prisoners a month later at Kfar Etzion, a Jewish community east of Jerusalem, with Jewish "prisoners, both men and women being lined up and shot in cold blood." (Ibid.) I have no problem at all saying there have been sins of violence on both sides in this long conflict between Arabs and Jews. I do have a problem with the pathologically one-sided and biased account of this conflict in your post.

I've been here a little less than a year, so have no idea about the other Cat around here. But I can reassure you that I am a genuine Persian who spares her meows and hiss' quite sporatically. Lynn is a fave, so she gets special treatment and you got the meow and the puurr cus you're just...well...cool!

What do we expect from the guy? he reveres Samir Kuntar. his glorious leader plays on the strings of a POW who hasn't had a sign of life in 30 years. his hero holds men hostage whom he doesn't have the decency of allowing for any signs of life. This is a country that has men like walid puffing out their chests in glory and then trade the bodies of dead soldiers for hordes of live thugs. I expect nothing from walid other than selective hollow moral outrage, it can't be helped given the society he's from. It takes a man to rise above it all, that's more than we could expect from him.

You wrote of "the attempt to erase a civilization from the face of the earth" by Zionists. Sorry to inform you, that attempt to erase a civilization off the face of the earth has come from the other side against Israel. Leading up to the first Arab-Israel War (which you may not have heard the Arabs launched against Israel) the Secretary-General of the Arab League stated: "This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre." (Hamilton, God, Guns and Israel, Sutton, 2004, p. 248). No doubt it would have been had they won. Mass Arab violence against Jews in Palestine began in 1920 with Arabs attacking Jews and shouting "kill the Jews" and "the Jews are our dogs." (Morris, Righteous Victims, 2001, p. 94). This was unprovoked by violence from Jews. You mention massacres but forget to mention massacres by Arabs in the first Arab-Israeli War. Tessler writes that "there were atrocities committed by Arabs even before the Deir Yassin episode." (Pal. Israeli Conflict, 300).

Gideon Levy and Amira Hass remind us (and we do need reminding) that Israel is perhaps not a completely lost cause after all.

NO ONE can stop the Palis from using their children as cannon fodder- ialk to them about it.

Read herzel and Jabotinsky (Der Zudenstat and the Iron wall at least) before you make allegations.

"The pious sense of entitlement, the bigoted goal of domination, and the nonsensical reliance on comical religious text make the killing of the children of others an inevitable outcome." Sir, This year Pulitzer is yours. "comical religious text" is your best.

An obvious Jew hater goes not warrant a response, I only respond to humans. You don't qualify.

"the callous indifference of the Israeli public to the promiscuous rules of engagement of the IDF" Sir, Really sophisticated poetry, Thank you

denying that the young man was beaten to death? 176Stan A.it has always been 'historic Palestine' and in 1947 the UN Res.181 partitioned it into an Arab state & a jewish state,in 1988 PLO declared a state and has standing at the UN(observer status as Palestine).17,I thought we were talking about the'light unto nations' ! or is it 'blight unto nations'.If it is the past,there is plenty of stuff in the OT.Check the first book of Kings,none other than David,the old king and a young girl!Plenty of polygamy and interesting stuff.Aisha was not a child.Not much is known about her exact age,probably in her mid teens,certainly not a child! 193 Gil,Walid's stats are more accurate.Rwanda & Yugoslavia were brought to the ICT.israel's turn next.

The pious sense of entitlement, the bigoted goal of domination, and the nonsensical reliance on comical religious text make the killing of the children of others an inevitable outcome.

Are you sure of these numbers?. I see you have no foot notes to statement. Why should we believe it. If a woman has an aportion it is between here and her G_D. It is not up to you to judge. I dont see you making any statements about the Pal parents that have children omly to make them killers

Dear Gil, You are right. The casualty figures do not yet of themselves indicate that genocide has occurred. What is cause for great concern however is the multiple and systematic violations of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights by Israel. This document, born of the Holocaust, is an early warning system of genocide. And it appears that this is the route that Israel has consciously chosen to head down. Where is the evidence? The very thrust of Israeli policies is to push the Palestinians into a smaller and smaller enclave. The World Bank, under the tutelage of Paul Wolfowitz, reported in June that the Palestinians now no longer have access to at least 50% of the West Bank. This is de facto ethnic cleansing. Ordinary Israelis support their government in inflicting squalor and misery on the Palestinians as a way to humiliate them into submission. Ordinary Israelis are also content with the settlement expansion on Palestinian land by their own fundamentalists, who can attack and abuse local Palestinians at will. This is also de facto ethnic cleansing. You only have to spend a short time on this website to hear many express the desire for a Greater Israel, free of Palestinians. The final destination is clearly signposted. Another pointer is the callous indifference of the Israeli public to the promiscuous rules of engagement of the IDF, which is what this thread is about. These rules have killed thousands of non-combatants and your dismissal of that fact is also cause for concern. It is indicative of the Israeli mind-set. Israelis are using lethal fire power to intimidate the Palestinians into submission, or to leave, permanently. Nothing could encourage a people better to leave their ancestral lands than by deliberately targeting their children. Nothing in your post shows the slightest objection to the process of ethnic cleansing now underway. Rather, you lash out at those who have the gall to point out the direction you are heading. Regards.

Cont. Sorry, Ran out of space. In any event, some of the respondents here actually believe the Pal BS. Utterly stunning. But over the course of time, I've learned to simply glance at some of their responses then moveon to the next. Either these people are beyond help or are simply trying to hide their Jewish loathing through polemical discourse. Thus I occasionally read Haaretz for the humour but little else. When I want facts I read the JPost. Israel's most dangerous enemies are not the terrorist (and supporters!) but rather left wing radicals such as GideonL and its disconnected elitist politicians i.e. Olmert/Livni/Peres who care nothing for the hard working Israeli masses trying to survive in the middle of terrorist chaos. Until - ALL - Pals want peace there will be none, no matter how much Israeli "land for peace" is given away. Land is NOT a reason but rather an excuse to kill Israelis. Want a home? Then STOP - TRYING - to slaughter, innocent Israeli women and children.

You remind me of another catwoman that used to post here a year or so ago..forget the name,but she also used to purr and meow when scratched behind the ears..also seem to recall that the claws could come out as well..sound familiar?

He thinks the problems started in 2000. Perhaps the returning 4 1/2 million Palestinian refugees will explain it to you. Be sure to open up your home and welcome them back.

Dear Victor, You say, quote, ?I perceive very little rationale in takbacks which count numbers of dead?. How very convenient for you. With one phrase, you can ignore all the Palestinian casualties. You do not have to account for the murder of innocents by the IDF, or call for a change in their promiscuous rules of engagement. It allows you to equate the suffering on either side as some how being the same, and to ignore the misery and squalor the Israelis have inflicted. It allows you to call for the ?terrorists in gaza [to] stop firing qassams into Israel? whilst not having to acknowledge the death and destruction visited on the Palestinians in their homes and on the streets every day by the IDF. Again, how very convenient. For your information, historians are concerned with body counts, as are human rights organizations too. Understanding conflict and how to resolve it is dependent in part on knowing the extent of the human tragedy. That you and many others attempt to sideline the extent of the Palestinian fatalities is indicative of the indifference and callousness of the Israeli position. Regards.

Man,this sounds like a dangerous place to be..I might have to go look for my old flak jacket..been a while since I've visited here,recognize a few names..I see Dutch is still spewing out her garbage and the arab apologists are still having difficuly distinguishing fact from fiction..when in doubt,just make it up,right guys? I should probably bide my time,get a feel for the ground before I jump in and get slammed.

Here we go again! Such petulant nonsense! For your information, I have ben at metings with at least four Israeli citizens in Australia. Ted Lapkin of AIJAC, Tanya Reinhart, Uri Davis and former citizens of Israel who have emigrated to Australia. Read your own history - preferably what Herzel and others have written about their plans for colonising Palestine, Moshe Sharrat's dairies, Orde Wingate's training of Zionist terror, massacres such as Deir Yesin and expulsion of people from their villages and towns and the attempt to erase a civilisation from the face of the earth - before you make childish cahrges against critics of Israel, who incidentally are not necessarily fans of Fatah or Hamas.

Sorry Peter, Learn some history, not self-serving government propoganda. Palestine was a inhabited country before the Zionists colonised it - on the pretext that an imaginary God is in fact a real estate salesperson -. It was Herzel, Jabotinsky and their followers that began the massacre of Palestinians. That the victims resort, at times, to the same means as the coloniser is undeniable. But remember Orde Wingate and the night squads, Deir Yesin, Lyddah, Tantura, Qibya, Budrus, Sabra, Shatilla, Jenin and buldozers, Gaza etc and you begin to see the basis of the violence.

I know he was addressing Lakshmi, I just wanted to be clear what 'the kind' meant! Meow right back at ya! And puurrr!

Ahh...well, you're asking the wrong person. I happen to take pride of my heritage of millennia-age friendship with the Jewish people - well, cept for the last 28 years, but I assure you the current Iranian regime's stance is against humanity so it includes all of us, you, me,....and the rest! And incidentally, I happen to be in a loving relationship with an American Jew, not to mention that I listen to Hasidic reggae music -- shhhhhhh!

Hello - ChanahS, Check the Facts, Jacques, Steven, Dagma, et. al. I think that it is clear that we all deplore the deaths of children... ANY, children. But, as we all know, when Israel bends over backwards to avoid the possibility, yet makes a mistake, it is crucified by the frothed-mouthed radical left here on the responses. Shame. How quickly they seem to forget the children of Maalot (along with many other children, later) who were forced into one small class room, then systematically slaughtered by Pal terrorists. Where was the radical left's outrage then? But, I will never forget the drama unfolding during the event, nor its result... NEVER. Thus, we should remember, all the space cadets espousing anti-Israeli rhetoric here actually believe the terrorist propaganda or are in need of some serious mental therapy... just such as Peres/Olmert/Livni. But, a few are simply beyond help and can only be quietly laughed at with their absurdities i.e. Indrayaya, Lakshmi, NickF

Is he on the pay roll of the oil countries.? IS he getting as much as Dutch and her friends.? Bet this doesnt get printed

Persian Kitty STOP JOKING AROUND You know perfectly well what Steven A. means by your kind when referring to Lakshmi, She thinks Hammas is some sort of saint, Would close her aye when her Green Hamas murdered in cold blood hundreds of its own people to get control over Gaza! Steven A. is right in pointing the finger at a person how shouts genocide at every opportunity she gets; with out even understanding what is a genocide to start with! So when Steven A. says your kind to Lakshmi he means exactly Lakshmis kind, the Green Hamas with red spots kind!

The youth of Gaza are malnourished, under educated with little chance of progress. Their future is bleak and another generation is jaded and destroyed. The youth of Israel are forced to dehumanize and kill the arab youth of Gaza and Lebanon. Duty on the West Bank and Golan (Syrian Heights) has corrupted the youth of Israel; another generation is jaded and destroyed.

wHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO PROTECT THE Children of your country. Many of these children work in horrible conditioms and are very young. Shall we talk about child prostition that is wide spread in your country. Again I ask what have you done to protect children of your country

4 million clusters dropped in Lebanon,of which 1 million are still unexploded and kill & maim civilians,mainly children!The General Assembly can put together an International Criminal Tribunal(as for Rwanda&Yugoslavia)by a simple majority vote pursuant to its powers to establish "subsidiary organs" under UN Charter article 22.Also the ICJ for slow genocide since 1948 under the 1948 Genocide Convention Art II. I agree that the idf's crimes are outrageous and perhaps putting some of them against the wall,is the only way to prevent such heinous acts as dropping a 1000 kilo bomb on an apartment building!

No worries my friend.....let's keep our furies in check for taking out the regime in Tehran! :o)

None of my business,Kitty Cat,but I think Steven A. was talking to Lakshmi.. Meow:)

When I wrote "by your kind", I wasn't referring to a particular race, I meant liberals, lefties and do-gooders, who would rather support terrorists than the real victims (Israelis). Israel is the victim of an International conspiracy against it, to convince it that it has no right to exist, feeding it the long-told lie that it is "occupying" someone else's land. That is the real crime, and most people are just to ignorant to see it. I would really like to know just what it is about the Jews that the world doesn't like. For the hate to last 2,000 years!

to answer your questions. the rockets were there because the palestinians in gaza basically live in a giant ghetto. they have been forced into aparteid. THEY ARE FIGHTING FOR FREEDOM. The Children are not "allowed" near the rocket launchers. they are forced near them because they have no where else to go. Rocket launchers are in such close proximity to civilians because civilians are eveywhere. when you cage people they have no where else to go. to conclude, mr. levy is "investigating how to deal with an enemy that shows NO morality and NO ethics" and that enemy is the idf. for every isreali killed by a rocket or suicide bomb there are 5 that are killed by the idf. how can you be so disgusted by the palestinians small amount of killings when the isreali army is killing many many more. i guess the only explanation is that you value the lives of jews above all others. and that is a dangerous way to think.

G-D protect the Pal children from their parents. THese are the parents that got paid when their children killed Jews and then killed. Daadies ran so fast in Lebanon they left their children behind to become human shields. THe children have been taught hate and how to kill from the day they are born.Proof of their training are the Disny copy cartoons. The children have been used as weapons. The worse thing for a parent is to bury child. Not acording to the Arabs. G-D please protect the living children from the greed and stupiduty of their parents Take those that have been murdered by their parents into your arms and protect them from more harm

I'm interested to know what you meant by: "No one has the right to tell Israel to stop defending itself thank you very much, especially not your kind." in your post 176? More particularly, what you mean by "especially not your kind"......

why do jews have to give explanations? it is obvious that if someone attacks you from a neighbouring country, they will receive the proper shot. Hamas and all the shitty terrorists can attack us freely, but we have to give explanations? Stop excusing please, go on with the job until they are finished.

IDF go on your mission..... if they do not want kids killed, let them stop the attacks. No mercy, whoever it is, if they are near the dangerous site, fuck them all

I hope to God you're being sarcastic in your posts - alas, perhaps that's a tall order?

are you a Hamas in disguise? how can you dare write these silly things, and what kind of Newspaper Haaretz is to publish them?

Hi. I know I've grown increasingly impatient with expressions of self-righteousness on Talkback and if I mistakenly imputed that to you with too little evidence I apologize (it was in response to something you said in first post). I agree with you about extremist ideologies on both sides poisoning discourse.

Dear Maimon, I think you and I are essentially saying the same thing. The laws in place in Europe are there because Europe (especially Western E) is more xenophobic than it is pleased to admit to. I have traveled extensively and nowhere else have I found such gross and shameless xenophobia than western europe. I am neither muslim nor Jewish and I grew up next to those as well as Christians, etc in Iran. Not once any of us thought "oh, s/he's jew, or muslim or christian or zoroastrian or bahai or whatever" in our day to day interactions - we all ate off of eachothers' tables, danced together at parties (even in khomeini's time). People are people everywhere. The answer to one extreme ideology isn't the rise of another or else we'll get caught up in the endless cycle that has shaped human history. Regards....

Israel kills 50000 of its own children yearly thru abortion. I beleive the site is friendsofefrat.org. Why would they care about others children?

Becky, someone wrote yesterday on Burston I think, that 90 or 92% of all Palestinians killed were on their own property when they were assassinated and not out on some mission. In other words, they were at home. Israelis complain about Palestinians being brainwashed to become terrorists upon growing up but fail to see that Israelis themselves have been trained by their own parents and leaders to consider Palestinians as sub-human therefore no remorse is ever shown towards any killing of Palestinians whether intended or accidental. Look at your own reaction assuming that the parents would be possibly out at a Hamas rally while their kids fooled around rocket launchers. You have been brainwashed just as bad as the Palestinians and you are both sick with hate and need attention.

Lakshmi As usual Lakshmi is shouting GENOCIDE, GENOCIDE, And comparing Israel to Rwanda and former Yugoslavia, with out even a single clue how big the horror was in those two countries she so eagerly compeers us to! As I told SILVIENNE, Israel killings are just a drop in a lake of water compared to those countries where thousands were killed in a per day, even if you will mount the 60 years of conflict, it will stay a drop in a lake of water! Lakshmi if Israel is to be on trial for a genocide as you suggest, according to WALIDS STATISTICS (of a ratio of 1:4) your Palestinian friends should be on trial for a mini-genocide! Apparently the real ratio between those killed by Israel (4254) and those killed by Palestinians (1615) in the past 7 years is 2.6. It is a pity that Palestinians kill their own Palestinian brothers (538 killed in the past 7 years)! So stop your ranting that the IDF is a bloody Murderer, your So-Called Palestinians are far from being a saint too!

Neither does Israel, you've swallowed the same lie that most of the world has swallowed ever since 1948. But then, the famous saying comes to mind; "Say a lie long enough and people will start believing it". In this case, the lie is the so-called "occupation". There is no occupation in Israel. Oh and by the way, give Kashmir back to Pakistan. Ooops.

Where did I say that I possess "admirable human qualities that other Americans lack"? I did not understand a hoot of what you wrote! I just pointed to the hypocracy of most of the posters...just read through them: post after post in justification of some extreme ideology -- to me it doesn't matter if it's pro this or anti that (you should get what I'm referring to since you're an umm American!!!) Thanks and Shalom.

If you fire missiles at random into any city in the world, including an Israeli city, you should not complain when the army of that country, in this case Israel, fires back at you. Why is it so difficult for you to understand something so obvious?

Gina, I'm against the use of children in war as much as I'm against the IDF killing them. I'm against the brainwashing of Palestinian kids to grow up hating Jews as much as I'm against Jews teaching (by example) their own kids to be insensitive to the plight of the Palestinians. It's ugly on both sides, not just on one and I'm not blind to the ugly one from the Palestinian side and I wish you would do likewise with the Jewish one. I don't blame the young lads of the IDF for what they are doing but I do blame their superiors who have made them think that it's ok top kill Palestinians since there will always be the excuse ready to save the soldiers.

Lynn, of course the one with the biggest stick ends up winning but does there have to be a fight? If Israel would end the occupation, all these fights would not be happening. Levy said it that Qasam rockets always happen after an assassination of one of theirs. It's an automatic reflex with these guys that I wish would stop and that they would try something other less violent in nature. Israel's military machine does not want this to stop and to make it worse, neither does the Hamas people because if it did ever stop, both would be out of business. I hope you read my message to you on Burston concerning the titles.

It took you two posts in response to my one to make your point but it is actually not at all clear what your point is other than that you like to talk discursively toward no end whatever and that you view yourself as possessing admirable human qualities that other Americans lack. I'd prefer not to see on Talkback comments (this one from a regular Talkback poster whom other critics of Israel on Talkback actually embrace rather than condemn) in which she speaks of "diluted, mongrelized zionists through Khazar, aka ashkenazim blood" (15/07/07). This is pure racism, with its aspersions of impure Jewish ("ashkenazim") blood. I see this type of thing here day after day from this one poster alone.

Sir/Madame, Could you please remind me how old was Aisha when Mohammad deflorated her? Thank you

They want you dead, Israel wants to survive,t here is no middle ground and nothing to negotiate on. If someone is launching missiles at Israel, or even just hanging around playing the role of human shield, then their life is forfeit and it does not matter whether they are two or two hundred years old. Don't like it, then you can act like a Palestinian and get killed too, in any country in the world, acting like that would mean you're dead.

One way of looking at it Walid is that those children won't grow up to be terrorists. The IDF targeted suspicious figures around a rocket launcher, there was a 90% chance they were terrorists. It was bad luck! And anyway, where the hell were their parents? Attending another Hamas rally I suppose!

"No one has the right to tell Israel to stop defending itself thank you very much, especially not your kind" What kind would that be? Racism is in your blood. We Indians live with dignity. We do NOT occupy anybody else's land.

Jacob, it's a shame this is what your hard-earned money is financing these days. Between the military establishments and the military arms providers having a field day, no peace will be coming any time soon. It's all about money. Just look at how fellow Jews are reacting here to the Jewish author because he is showing compassion. There is something wrong in their values.

Sir, Do you mean the pervert Abu Bakr? Do you mean 6 years old Aisha? Do you mean the child molester Mohammad? You are in the know since you are their follower. Wanna talk morals?

Peter, go sit under an olive tree with Margie and together contemplate the IDF's bravery in killing kids to make Israel a safe place; it will do you a lot of good, either that or a good enema because you are full of it.

Article 48 (prot. 1) of the Geneva Conventions clearly states: "The Parties to the conflict shall at all times distinguish between the civilian population and combatants and between civilian objects and military objectives and accordingly shall direct their operations only against military objectives." Article 50 dictates that "The presence within the civilian population of individuals who do not come within the definition of civilians does not deprive the population of its civilian character." Should tell you something.

Aram, you don't hear about Palestinian children getting killed because of the demonization and dehumanizing of the Palestinian people by the Israeli authorities that render the people insensitive to these deaths. Just look at the sampling of comments here and how many are berating the author that is saying that the Palestinians are human beings which is a no-no in Israel and he is being branded an Israeli hater.

Other than the video of them adjusting the rocket launchers. The problem is THE WORLD IGNORES THE ARABS USE OF CHILDREN TO CONDUCT TERROR OPERATIONS Then they blame ISRAEL for defending itself. PLAACE THE BLAME WHEWRE IT BELONGS - WITH THE ARAB HATE MONGERS WHO USE THESE CHILDREN TO CARRY OUT THEIR ACTS OF MURDER

First of all, there is no such place as "Palestine", so please stop calling it that. The country you are referring to is ISRAEL. And second, a biased International Tribunal has no jurisdiction in Israel and should be told to take a running jump. No one has the right to tell Israel to stop defending itself thank you very much, especially not your kind.

Jacques, there were no women in Bint Jbeil or Aitaroun and a dozen other villages where the Hizbullah fighters took on the mighty children killers in face to face fighting and sent them running back to the safety of the border. Your other valiant warriors that were rocketing civilian buildings from the safety of 50,000 feet were not any better, nor were your valiant sailors on the Saar 5 that shelled the civilian homes in the suburbs of Beirut from 5 miles out until a Hizbullah missile had it get towed back to Haifa. It's one thing to fight the men of Hizbullah and another to kill children playing tag in a field. What great bravery to have killed 952 Palestinian children. I'm not particularly proud of the Palestinians either to have killed 118 Israeli kids. Israelis and Palestinians should both be ashamed of themselves.

Dutch ILLEGAL SETTLERS what a poor excuses is that No illegal settlers in Gaza so stop pointing your finger in the wrong direction! Start pointing you finger at the Palestinians for a change! WB and Gaza are separate entities as from the day Hamas threw Fatach from the rooftops, so you have no excuse to point your finger at imaginary illegal settlers.

Palestinian people...get your children away from danger. It is a simple thing to do. If not and you allow your children to be in harm's way then you are just sick people who adore martyrism.

DORIS THER ARE CLOSE TO 20 MILLION ILLEGAL IMMMIGRANTS IN YOUR COUNTRY DO YOU THINK THEY WILL LEAVE BY THEMSELVES ?? THE DIFFRENCE IN ISRAEL IS THAT THERE ARE NO ILLEGAL SETTLERS SO THEY DONT HAVE TO LEAVE ANYWHERE !!

The only "illegal settlers" in the Middle East are the Muslims who are occupying Jewish biblical land (Judea & Samaria). You choose to ignore historical fact and support terrorists, that's fine, its a free world after all. But don't try to force your way of thinking on the rest of us. If you do this, you are no better than the terrorists.

SILVIENNE TALKING OF SHOCKING STATISTICS, Way don?t you check the statistics in Rwanda, Darfor in Sudan, and even what has been in former Yugoslavia, look at those countries and speak of SHOCKING STATISTICS. Israel killings are just a drop in a lake of water compared to those countries with were thousands were killed in a per day, even if you will mount the 60 years of conflict, it will stay a drop in a lake of water! So please stop with your statistics. And only brought to make accusations towards the IDF, as if the Palestinians are sitting ducks that are brought as sheep to the slaughter, no Silvienne Israel is at war were the two sides are participating and trying to wear out each other! Yes people are dying but on both sides! I know what you are going to say O Israel is killing more, well bad luck for the Palestinians! P.S. Some advise to the Palestinian children Next time run away in the 5 minutes you have got, like the terrorists that shoot those rockets and ran!

Israel is not looking for territorial expansion. The Covenant of the Palestinians and, in fact ALL MUSLIM COUNTRIES, is 'The Destruction of Israel'. You should know this by now and Israel's only policy today is to fight for her very survival.

Janice.....It is clear that you are not made aware of the true facts pertaining to the starting of the Second Intafada in 2000. Yasser Arafat and his close circle had already secretly PLANNED this uprising beforehand and were only waiting for the right opportunity which would trigger it. True enough, the opportinity came with Sharon's visit to the Temple Mount and all went as planned. This was no secret finally.

Only one of those was a soldier killed in combat, the rest were civilians, including three in a suicide bombing in Eilat in January, and two in Qassam rocket attacks. The other fatality was found stabbed to death in Judea & Samaria. So anyone who claims that "no Israelis have been killed this year) obviously doesn't know what they are talking about. And according to my own detailed notes, 212 Palestinians have been killed by the IDF this year, most of them terrorists. Plus dozens more killed during in-fighting between Hamas and Fatah.

i perceive very little rationale in takbacks which count numbers of dead ? how many children were killed in canada in avoidable road accidents this week? how many young women were killed in honour killings by muslims. what is avoidable is that terrorists in gaza stop firing qassams into israel ! yet no anti semite makes thta propsal !!

The real enemies of the state are the illegal settlers. All this violence and killing is perpetrated in their name. Can Israelis afford to keep them anymore? I should think, otherwise , they will have to leave themselves. Dutch t

Yes, the children of both sides do deserve better. Glad to know there are others who are on the same page.

..Well, there are historical reasons for Antisemtism to be illegal in Europe, but so are also other racist instigation, for example against muslims. As you may have noticed however, neither is the case on Haaretz talkbacks, especially they lovingly let through Indrayayas mideval antisemitic blood libels and Clickschmucks more updated ones...

Israel's actions are making it lose its legitimacy. No wonder it is rated as the most hated state. NO! Don't cry anti semitism, because even that word has lost its meaning.

1) This is a terrible tragedy, and I can not help feeling that these latest IDF shootings is a result of a lacking moral compass. It is morally unacceptable to simply shoot at anything that moves. 2) Gideon Levy never had a moral compass and it is sickening to read this piece from him. If the dead children had been Jewish infants killed by Pali snipers and 100 % on purpose, his atricle would have been about how this calls for apeasement of Hamas and how this is a reuslt of YESHA. And all of you who do not see the horror of mistakenly killing 5 children out of nonchalance and incompetence disgust me as much as Gideon Levy and Indrayaya.

IsraelI cities today and those little Palestinian childrens' lives have therefore been saved! People cannot forget the bloodshed and carnage, the mutilation and massacre of the innocent, many of them being Israeli children and babies as victims of Suicide-bombers. Because the Barrier stands at the borders tall and defiant, it bars many Palestinian 'children at war' wearing explosive belts round their little waists or even those actng as couriers carrying dangerous materials from entering.... or have we forgotten that fifteen year old Palestinians boy who was caught only a few days ago attempting to become a 'human bomb' near an Israeli Army Camp.....? 'Palstinian Children at War' is a Shame. not to the Arabs. We tend to forget sometimes, but because of the Barrier, Israelis and their children and babies are safer than ever today, and even Gideon Levy can board a bus in Tel Aviv without fearing a would-be bomber sitting beside him. But alas, in Sderot itis different.

when I asked you if you would send your own childen out to retrieve rocket launchers? "the number of Palestinians that have been killed which certainly outweighs those of Jews." So? You don't get to launch a terrorist war and then complain if you get yourself killed in the process. If you care about dead Palestinians instead of supporting their terror was against Israel, encourage them to accept the next peace proposal.

Hi Lynn, for what I hear, the regime is cracking down on the men who are advocating the One Million Signature Campaign - they have imprisoned several men so far. Here's a link to the women's movement campaign: http://www.wechange.info/english/spip.php?article139&var_mode=calcul Enjoy! Puuurrrr

towards the Arabs who refuse to make security measures to protect their children, who consider their children disposable as shields, launcher retrievers, rock throwers, "martyrs", suicide bombers, bomb transports, etc. Is it because you know your rants would fall on deaf ears. You realize protecting children is low of the priority list of the Palestinians in Gaza and elsewhere in their communities where their terrorists have this mythical heroic, protected status? Are there any arabs at all who condemn the disposable use of Arab children by terrorist lovin' Arabs?

"I didn`t ever say it was permissible to launch rockets at Israeli cities (Sderot). It isn`t." I simply repeated your own comment back to you from your first post, exchanging the presumption of guilt. "But no Israelis have been killed in terrorist attacks this year at al" Due to Israeli security measures. Fortunately, Israeli society holds its children precious and valuable, not as shields like the Gazans do with their kids.

something needs to be done!details in my post137(to Dutch).

Christ! How do you even remember? That was a while ago. Here, this one is for you Peace Through Superior Firepower

Anyway, besides a handful of posters, all are fervent emotional rants, and at the end of the day it doesn't really matter if it pro this or anti that; if it's void of humanity, the result is the same. Only through tolerance, dialogue and understanding are we able to defeat the ugly ideologies that are breeding more and more hatred giving way to the beast that will soon consume us all. And this isn't such a fairytale proposition, it has been done before. PS- NYT is hardly a credible source to be repeated.

Back in 1999, I was working for one of the top 3 global consulting firms in our nation's capital. In a casual gathering, one of my colleagues, Ed, casually made a comment that went something like this: We should just nuke middle east and yaddy yadda. A couple of coleagues started to smooth the situation and I quoted:"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." And that's the beauty of living in the best democracy on Earth. Between the two of us, someone had to be the human and I chose it to be me. Just like he failed to choose so. Bear in mind this was before 9/11. Now back to posters here: the majority of these people talk from supposed democracies where freedom of speech is a major tenet, yet if you say anything antisemitic it is punishable by prison term (13 countries in EU). Dont get me wrong, antisemitism offend my sensibilites immensely, but I know uprooting the ideology is not going to be achieved by silencing the tongue that speaks it.

Gideon Levy sounds like a Norwegian gentleman to me.Nobody likes to see children killed.Nobody should like to see anyone killed.Hamas have chosen to use children in their murderous campaign against Israel so when they die Hamas will find that it,s agents make pr for them.

Gideon,I salute you and raise my hat to your humanity.Your article is excellent and very rational.I dont say that because I am an arab and you are a jew but because I feel you and I share the same humanity.This dirty enmity must come to an end and blood shed must stop.How can anyone agree of holding 1.5 million people as hostages in a tiny enclave with no simplest means of life?Why to have the people of Sderot and Ashkelon and other places under fear of a sudden fall of a Qassam on the roof of their homes? who is benefitting of this?no one.I always call for co-existence,live and let others live.Our children,s life is dear,let them enjoy it with love and no fear.They have the right to impose on us a peaceful future.

"Again children. Five children killed in Gaza in eight days. The public indifference to their killing - the last three, for example, were accorded only a short item on the margins of page 11 in Yedioth Ahronoth, a sickening matter in itself" While there have been a few expressions of sympathy for the murder of these children in these Talkbacks (very few indeed!) the prevailing tone has been justification of the IDF murders. Until now I had always assumed that the indifference to the murder of Palestinian children was limited to the wacko right-wing of the Zionists, but Mr. Levy's observation raises a very serious question - are the majority of Israeli Jews in favour of the indiscriminate murder of Palestinians? If that is the case, then the State of Israel has lost the moral balance that is expected of a civilized country. If there is a 'silent majority' in Israel that finds these acts despicable, then SPEAK OUT!!

the killing of the 5 year old you mentioned.... your justification for that murder, makes you a sicko in my book. nothing personal, i dont even know you, but i do feel sorry for what you and your country have become.

They (the Palestinians) started the was in 2000, you say. No, Mr. Stoler, the spark that lit the flames of the Second Intifada was the appearance of Mr. Settlement Builder Ariel Sharon and 1000 Israeli policeman at the Temple Mount/Done of the Rock. When Palestinians predictablly demonstrated against this deliberate provocation, the IDF responded with gun fire killing several Palestinians. Before even one Israeli was killed by the Palestinians, 84 Palestinians had been killed by the IDF. All of this came after Israel with its rapid settlement expansion showed clearly that it had no wish for a just peace with the Palestinians, that it had no intention of giving up the stolen lands and water resources. It should by now be completely clear that the Israeli government values the acquistion of more land than it values its own security. It should be clear that they are not in the least interested in any peace which will leave a significant number of Palestinians in the West Bank.

Personally,I liked your previous signing off statement..Peace through superior fire power.

Couldn't have said it better. When do you think the Iranian women are going to revolt? From what I have read they are getting major aggravated.

If IDF had any morality or purity of arms they would put the soldiers who killed the 5 kids up against the wall and execute them on live television. Jews can be murderers. Yigal Amir for example. Soldiers can be murderers look at General Dan Halutz who committed a crime against humanity when he ordered the dropping of a 1000 kilo bomb on a crowded apt. building in Gaza killing 14 kids and then laughed about it and said he slept well at night. Had Gen. Halutz went up against the walland been executed for the Gaza killings, we would not have had his incompetence and costly blunders in the 2nd Lebanon war because he was too busy playing stockbrokr. If Israel doesn't start prosecuting its own war criminals, the world is going to do it for them. Neither Halutz nor any other general suffered a scratch in the intafada or the 2nd Lebanon war because they stayed safely in Israel.

Gideon Levy would rather Sderot kids be killed in classrooms than Gaza kids get dirty while collecting rocket launchers. At least then he could relax, knowing that Israel turned the other cheek and acted in a good Christian way. I expect that if God forbid that happened, he would call on the bereaved parents to send their kids toys to the children of incarcerated palestinian terrorists. Futher, he would probably call on the education ministry to reimburse Islamic Jihad for cruelly and undemocratically placing a school in the way of their rockets thereby damaging their home made projectiles.

The "We are at war" explanation cannot justify everything. Not everything is permissible even in war. Palestinian suicide bombings and firing rockets at Israeli civilian areas are crimes; they are forbidden and condemned worldwide, as indeed they should be. But such crimes do not jusitfy Israeli air bombardments and shooting at Palestinian civilians; these are crimes too. The figures of the victims on both sides in the past seven years are: 1,100 Israelis killed of whom some 700 civilians and including 100 children - and in the same period 4,500 Palestinians killed, of whom more than 2,000 civilians and including 800 children. Crimes are crimes, even in war - that is why they are called war crimes. International tribunals are judging war criminals, years after the events. Let us hope an international tribunal will one day also judge war criminals - on both sides - of this war. Justice should not be selective, it should simply be justice.

The best way to fight Kassams is to turn the other cheek and give away Jerusalem, Samaria and Judea! That's what leftist traitors are planning. Leftist ideology hasn't succeeded in any country and ultimately it will be rejected by the israeli people too! It will happen in the not distant future; self hating - self destructive jews will have to live in Cuba or Venezuela. The same fate is awaiting this disgusting leftist newspaper and its staff talking, writing about "appartheid state"! Shame on you all, you leftist criminals!

Thank goodness the numbers aren't higher on both sides. Would you feel better if there were more dead Israelis then Palestinians? War is not proportional nor is the deaths caused by wars. There is no keeping it even. Hamas fires Qassams, Israelis respond, people die. If Hamas was right, don't you think the Saudis or Egypt would say something? Qatar tried to introduce a bill at the UN concerning this problem, PA stopped them.

I wish you were right Kitty but the ME doesn't work that way. Peace Through Victory

taken a step further.The General Assembly can set up a an International Criminal Tribunal for Palestine(as was done for former Yugoslavia,Rwanda etc.).It can be done by a simple majority(no need for SC approval)pursuant to its powers to establish "subsidiarly organs" under UN Charter art.22.And since the genocide has been going on for the last 60 years israel should be taken to the ICJ for genocide.ArtII of the 1948 Genocide Convention.See my post to Walid(98) about the condition of children in israeli prisons,some 400 plus.I have given the citation.Physical,psychological and even sexual abuse.Also the website gives info. about the adult prisoners.

I find it truly hysterical your name is from an American elite squad for the Dept. of Transportation and Safety. Cracks me up!

when faced with questions, most of the anti-semites can't come up with answers.

Absolutely catzo they kill cildren instead

The Gazan Border Conflict is turning into a war of attrition comparable to a small festering sore that somebody has learned to live with because it won't go away and can't be healed. A few are killed here, a few injured there. The Palestinians fire rockets the IDF retaliates with more sophisticated weapons. The young soldiers on the ground in the sweltering summer heat are bored,edgy and ready to kill.Some will take the violence home with them. Some of those who die are children. As long as the terrorists operate amongst civil populations more children will die. The longer this border war lasts the less we will care each time small coffins are buried. This kind of war will brutalise, desensitise and diminish an entire society. The politicians must push to end this situation even if it requires harsh measures to stop the terrorists.

A very well written post, thank you. Its about time someone told Haaretz just what harm they are doing to the country. False and biased reporting can do more harm than a Qassam rocket.

Get your facts right Silvienne, there have been seven Israelis killed so far this year, only one of them was a soldier. So before you come on spouting your pro-terrorist diarrhea, check your statistics. And the only reason the death toll among Israel isn't much higher is because of the security wall and the actions of the security forces and intelligence services. Bravo IDF! And as for your 300 Palestinians killed, the majority of those that have been killed were terrorists, or those protecting them (one in the same).

He who has the biggest stick usually wins the fight. I don't understand why you think one side won't always have more casualties then the other. It's the way it happens in war. There are no proportional victims, just victims on both sides.

Don't you mean "Justice for everyone except Jews"? Hamas, Islamic Jihad = cold blooded murderers with all the morals of a praying mantis. Well, actually a praying mantis is much more moral than Hamas is, and much prettier too! AM YISRAEL CHAI!!

No lakshmi, Gideon Levy is an Israel bashing, self-hating imbecile whose articles should not be allowed to get published in any paper. Bu then given Haaretz's pro-Muslim stance, I'm not surprised.

to undo any good of peace talks. The left is the most damned aggravating bunch of warmongers there ever was.

You've got it wrong my friend -- it shouldn't be "Peace through Victory"....but Victory through Peace.

"It is not a cease fire in Gaza that is missing. We have gone through this stage and there was no end to Qassams."-tosefta another day and once again stumbling on a truth but the hangers-on aren't buying it.

Quite correct spaghetti head thay kill children.

of the Palestinian kids killed by Hamas and Fatah either. Three killed a couple of weeks ago by Qassam fire which fell in their village, Beit Hanoun. Infighting killed more in crossfire when gunfights broke out. Please tell me where all the outrage was then? Sick bunch of people picking and choosing what should be exposed for everyone to see.

I can see that you are one of multiple military experts on these talk back with no single year spent in military service trying to enrich us simple mortals with your expertise. Should we conclude that with all the intelligence and technologies US deliberately bombed Canadians in Afghanistan and Brits in Iraq? What about all these wedding parties bombed in both countries? They are also no mistakes right? Finally one should defiantly remember that when NATO was bombing civilian targets in Serbia (hi way, bridges, power stations etc with no protest on your part) they hit Chinese embassy and couple of ambulances which was of course no mistake by you since they have all the intelligence and technologies.

America is at war with Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. In the crushing battle to defeat these menacing entities, civilians including children die in large numbers. A "journalist" of the Gideon Levy mode constantly carps about civilians and children inadvertently killed by Allies bombing and military operations. Would the U.S. have tolerated a Gideon Levy during WW II? Of course not. Israel is also in the midst of a huge war with forces who are determined to destroy her. Why should Israel tolerate the likes of Gideon Levy? Freedom of speech is one thing. Aiding and comforting the enemy ie. treason is another thing altogether. It's way past time Jews stopped tolerating treason.

Gideon levy reminds me of the German Jews in the 30's that said that this nazi thing will pass and then went on to blame other Jews for fanning the flame. Get a life Gideon. They use children for publicity regardless of the cost. No wonder talkback is populated by the clicks and indrajaya of he world.

These children murdered by the IDF were not an active terrorist cell trying to murder Israeli children. They were kids playing a game of Tag. You are just as bad as a member of Al qaeda saying civilian deaths are justified because we can do it.

As an American Jew, I have never personally experienced any anti-Semitism, or any discrimination as a Jew, in the country where I live. Yet I look on Haaretz's Talkback and see little else but anti-Semitism in the hate-filled posts of those who distort and make up "facts," make biased accusations with no factual basis whatever, ignore every sin of Israel's enemies and magnify every Israeli sin. But since they don't use the exact words "I hate Jews" they think there is no problem in denying that they are anti-Semites. I would love to have a forum where I could discuss differences with those who have a different view of Israel from my own. Instead, Haaretz, what you have given us is a sewer of anti-Israel and anti-Jewish extremists with whom it is impossible to discuss anything in a spirit of mutual openness. I can think of many ways in which Talkback could have been spared this fate if Haaretz cared one bit about making it live up to its potential for real dialogue.

qassam launchers one purpose and that is to try to kill israeli within israel proper. terrorists that used children to collect launchers or have children actually launch the rockets are responible for their deaths. even more so the parents of those children are responsible for their deaths. if you are killed by a 10 year old or a 20 year old, you are dead either way, so why in the world would it be wrong to kill the 10 year old before he kills you??? how many images have we seen of children in gaza carrying weapons? each one of those will use that weapon on IDF and IDF will have no choice but to kill them. arresting them or wounding them simply delays the inevidable, so death is the only answer for these chidren.

If you really have such vivid imagination as you claim why then every time you find yourself exclusively in Palestinian shoes and never in Israeli? Why do not you help your aborigines with some resistance against white rule or in this case you do not know what you would do if you were in their predicament?

Why do Jewish schools, cultural centres and synagogues need to be protected worldwide? Because the islamists want to punish 'the Jews' collectively for Israel's actions or even existence. And if the IDF would really have a policy to go after the soft targets, which I do not believe, they learned it from their opponents. Who started killing school children, innocent women and men, passers by when a suicide bomber or car bomb went off? Quite!

HRW is wrong more often than you might think -- http://jordantimes.com/?news=1816

"400 plus Palestinian children incarcerated...In one case the child Motaz Qaba was 5 years!He was throwing stones at an army hummer" It's a shame it wasn't a Molotov Cocktail: Then IDF rules of engagement would have permitted his termination. If the idiot parents think, JUST THINK that there may be a chance of their children getting shot or arrested then maybe they should consider KEEPING THEM AT HOME! Peace Through Victory

There is no war, there is a brutal, insane occupation. Borders were established in 1948, new borders in 1967. The IDF is an occupation force. Every child the IDF murders reduces the standing of Israel and Israelis in the USA and beyond. This is now in negative territory with no chance for reconciliation with the people of the USA. The argument that Israeli children are killed cannot be disputed but the numbers tell the truth. The lopsided child murder rates are your undoing. The days of blind support are numbered. This will not stand. Israeli people, you have the policies of your leaders and military to thank for the complete loss of support in America. When we have control of our government squarely back in OUR hands, you will find yourselves all alone, with millions of people seeking reparation. We will not bail you out again.

of Jordan and Egypt. Why Jews are so strange? Because Jews don't want their own chieldren to be murdered. Keep it in mind, dursons, indrajayas, and other jew haters.

do you publicize such nonsence? In name of democracy? In the the name of hightening the intelectual level of your newspaper? Or are you suicidal?

Hello Marlene , You are right Israeli society as a whole doesn't seem to reflect ethical considerations with its ongoing use of force and violence towards the Palestinian people with 21st century warfare. Human Rights Watch have been telling the IDF for years they need to clean up their act and they haven't changed a damn thing -yet every day Israeli soldiers murder more Palestinians. How atrocious! ( http://hrw.org/reports/2005/iopt0605/ ) Then their officials have the gall to blame the victims and show little or no remorse for their suffering and losses. In addition, as you pointed out the society as a whole hasn't ex- presses any remorse for the events of 1948 and many Israelis seem preoccupied with their own desire for greater Israel and don't give a damn how their aspirations infringe on the Pale- stinians human rights and sovereign rights. How self centered! They don't reflect American values anymore. Dutch

"Yes, the children of Gaza gather around the Qassams. It is practically the only diversion they have in their lives. It is their amusement park." If the security of Jewish children interferes with the entertainment of Arab children, the Jewish children should grin and bear it. Hell, if they are really bored, they should be handed guns so they could play "shoot the infidel" Gideon, do you even read what you write before you submit it to your quisling masters or is it does it suffice that the piece traduces Israel? Peace Through Victory

This is exactly how this story read under the headline, and just 2 sentences with the Israeli excuse. Nothing more. That's what it rates in the American press. Gaza: Israeli Gunfire Kills 3 Children By ISABEL KERSHNER Published: August 30, 2007 A 10-year-old Palestinian girl and two boys, 10 and 12, were killed by Israeli fire in northern Gaza. In a statement, the Israeli Army said that it had fired at rocket launchers in the area. Separately, the Israeli deputy prime minister, Haim Ramon, said that Israel had offered several months ago to release 450 Palestinian prisoners in exchange for Cpl. Gilad Shalit, the Israeli soldier seized in June 2006 during a Hamas-led raid inside Israel but that the Egyptian-brokered talks broke down because of disagreement over which prisoners would be released. At an event for Corporal Shalit?s 21st birthday on Monday, his father, Noam, accused Israeli leaders of ?a clear and utter failure of the system? in his son?s case.

Slavo, you're being a hypocrite: "Many of us have seen the pictures of these fun loving "children" dressing up as "warriors" in suicide uniforms and carrying rifles. If theyre sent into Kassam launching areas with the full knowledge of their sickminded parents, then its no fault of the IDF. Want someone to blame? Blame their leaders and parents." -SLAVO You must be really really old as you have completely forgotten what it is like to be a child. I remember VERY VIVIDLY a photo of little Israeli girls signing rockets to be sent to Lebanon in their parents' presence. Just google "little Israeli girls signing rockets" and you shall see. Children are UNIVERSALLY sacred and innocent, which can't be said about you and me. Shame, shame, shame.....

Dear ChanahS, You make a number of provocative and baseless accusations again, but it will not disguise the moral vacuum in which Israel and its apologists operate. You attempt repeatedly to deflect attention from Israel?s absolutely appalling human rights record, by telling us we must respond to the atrocities committed by Hamas. First of all this is an Israeli website dealing with Israeli issues, so the primary concern is with Israeli actions. Second, Israel is a signatory to both the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the International covenants. It has a legal and moral duty to abide by these. You have never anything to say on the systematic and multiple violations by Israel. Why not? Only nation states can sign these documents, and when Palestine becomes one, it too will be under pressure to sign them, and abide by them. Third, the violations by Hamas are disgraceful, but they are not of the order of magnitude of those of Israel. You attempt to finesse this last point by denigrating body counts. How convenient. It means you can sweep under the carpet the thousands of dead bodies of Palestinians, and should any one want to metaphorically lift up a corner to see the devastation and carnage hidden underneath, and report on it, they can be castigated as voyeurs and perverts. Good try, but it is not going to work. Fortunately for us, we have B?Tselem, who research methodically the numbers of bodies under the carpet. We know from their statistics that the Israelis have killed 850 Palestinian children. This contrasts with the deaths of around 120 Israeli children killed by the Palestinians. B?tselem, unlike yourself, knows it is critical to conflict resolution to determine the number of deaths and how and when these occurred. No story of a conflict is complete without that information. It is shameful that you want this to go unreported. The final point on where your morality is suspect is you lay the blame the deaths of Palestinian children on their parents. In one fell swoop you have released the Wehrmacht from their culpability for all the deaths of civilians in WW2 by assuring them it was the fault of the parents of the victims, not them. I think even they would be surprised by that. Good grief! NB. I also noticed that, bar one or two, none of the apologists responded to the initial report on the deaths of the three children when it first came out on Ha?aretz on Thursday. Here, take a look and see for yourself: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/899175.html

in Haaretz(Aug 11,2007)'A Questionable Death' reprinted in imeu.net It details the beating death of a youngster by idf while he was waiting for a bus to take him to register at the Open University,near Bethlehem.

These IDF and IAF people are just plain murderers and killers.They know exactly what they are doing when they are bombing these children.They have all the intelligence and technologies,how could they continually keep killing these children, and Jews will sit back and call them terrorist or say they must have been planning something. Israel, again thank God for the good ole USA, they support your every criminal act and apartheid ways. As usual Mr Levy,great article.

These IDF and IAF people are just plain murderers and killers.They know exactly what they are doing when they are bombing these children.They have all the intelligence and technologies,how could they continually keep killing these children, and Jews will sit back and call them terrorist or say they must have been planning something. Israel, again thank God for the good ole USA, they support your every criminal act and apartheid ways.

Dutch # 64 agrees with you and starts her nonsense.

pd: virgins only for Muslims.Love

"Israel is at war, and Corporal Shalit and any other military personnel held by Palestinians are NOT abductees, but prisoners-of-war!" Then they should be treated as such and given access to the Red cross. But we both know they ae not POWs, don't we? They were not captured in battle, but in cross-border attacks (in which other soldiers were killed) while patrolling Israel's borders. That's abduction by all accounts.

400 plus Palestinian children incarcerated in israeli prisons for throwing stones at military vehicles:. . " where they are often subjected to various forms of physical,psychological & sexual abuse at the hands of their captors."(Defense for Children International,Palestine section)In one case the child Motaz Qaba was 5 years!He was throwing stones at an army hummer.See Free Marwan Barghouti.org(entry 1 Campaign to Free Marwan Barghouti)The section on Prisoners(Child Prisoners).

Russians and Americans should have "stopped attacking" immedialy after Germans had made use of children. No wonder Gideon's German-speaking father disliked Israel so much. It seems family Levy's heart is there forever ,in the Deutche Vaterland .

israeli casualties are far less almost entirely due to the fact that the israeli army is one of the strongest best-equipped in the entire globe... Qassams are, from a military point of wiew, like glorified catapults... There is no political statement intended here, so I ask people to refrain from automatically responding: "filthy lefty" or the ilk. Facts are facts, and this is almost as crystal-clear as the basic laws of physics...

Civilians caught up in crossfire is hell. But as general Grant said, "War is hell." The question a nation faces is: Whose civilians? Their's or our's? If morons like Levy want to commit suicide, that is his problem. But don't enable the enemy to kill us!

IDF=terrorist in uniforms.

Reminds me about the famous picture from the Warsaw Ghetto...this little jewish boy...even the Germans were more generous in letting this child live. Even as everybody knew that Jews and Poles used children as soldiers and messengers and terrorists in their fight against the german oppressors! Shame on you Israel!

One life is ONE too many (especially when we speak of children) FYI over 1000 Palestinian Children have been murdered by IDF since 2000.

Where have all the postings gone? Long time passing Where have all the postings gone? Long time ago Where have all the postings gone? Slowman ate them every one When will he ever quit? When will he ever quit? Where have all the censors gone? Long time passing Where have all the censors gone? Long time ago Where have all the censors gone? Gone to party every one When will they ever work? When will they ever work?

a)"the palestinians" b)"the israelis" c)"the jews" d)"the terrorists".......the list goes on and on.... Am I schizophrenic'loony or do people not realise the intricacies and complexities of human societies? Know specifically who you refer to if you want your voice to be heard and taken seriously by people who are willing to enter the mudpits and actually study situations.... this is a childish hate-fest, apart from a very few noteworthy comments

Having been a registered nurse for 20 years, why don't you volunteer your services to your beloved palestinians? You can tend to their wounded while lambasting the IDF for their indiscriminate shooting of women and children (the same ones who want the absolute eradication of Israel!), who are being used by their husbands, brothers and fathers as human shields! Your redundant rhetoric is nauseating!

The Pals use the kids for propaganda purposes by allowing them around the launch sites. They don't care ifthey're killed or not..they will be child martyrs and great propaganda for sleaze bags like you to write about.

Krikey, the generalisations and the grand, all-encompassing sweeping statements and declarations abound in these responses... How many references to: A)"

I seemed to have missed Gideon's articles on how immoral the Palestinian terrorists are for killing Israeli women and children. I also missed his articles lamenting the Palestinian deaths in the Gaza civil war a few months ago. Even if the IDF deserved to be criticized (which they don't because they have a right to defend themselves), Gideon's criticism is unbelievably disproportianate.

He states that the IDF launches first and Hamas responds. Hamas is sworn to Israels destruction, which tells me something. Not to mention after several "work accidents", that took the lives of Arabs and Arab children, where Israelis were not involved have resulted in Hamas blaming Israel anyhow, and the rockets fall-all rockets are aimed at civilians. But, with an artical like this it is not the bent truth but Gideon Levy himself. I never expect a good word about Israel from Gideon Levy and he never dissappoints.

Typical. All we see on CNN, FOX, and MSNBC are Arabic suicide bombers killing the "poor, innocent, Jews.". Why? It would be "anti-semitic" to show the truth. That truth being Jews murdering Arabs. If people knew the truth they might actually do something like demand the U.S. stop sending billions of dollars to Israel each year, and maybe even stop fighting the Jews' wars for them!! Better to be politically-correct than to be historically-accurate, huh?

"Anyone who truly seeks to stop the firing of Qassams should reach a cease-fire agreement with the current government in Gaza" This comment shows how naive Gideon Levy is. Amongst the Palestinians there are so many splinter groups. Remember not the lessons of Lebanon. The Palestinians ruined Lebanon and their was so many different Palestinian groups within Beirut (far from Jerusalem), power struggles, political factions, and manifestos. Has Gideon Levy read the manifesto of Hamas? What does he think of it's aims? Does he understand their Islamic way of thinking? I appreciate his empathy with those who suffer but I do not think he understands the complexities. Also, the IDF is not waging a war against children, totally wrong. Children do get hurt but does he think it is so deliberate??? No, children should be at home or school and certainly not playing next to rockets - indeed their should be no rockets in residential neighbourhoods,no gunmen.

You wrote: "The Palestinian children killed by IDF don't get written about in the US papers either." In my earlier response to your post, I should have quoted the first sentence of the New York Times article to which I made reference as well as the headline. First sentence: "A 10-year-old Palestinian girl and two boys, 10 and 12, were killed by Israeli fire in northern Gaza."

You live in California right? How many MILLIONS of Native Americans did your WHITE GOVERNMENT kill before developing the city of LA? Having accepted these events by living in California you have no right to criticize anything Israel has ever done since it is nothing by comparison to the crimes committed for your sake. Go back to Europe and then you might not be a hypocrit. Oh wait, all bleeding-heart Europeans are hypocrits too.

It is so simply for Mr Levy to say so but it not true. What does Mr Levy expect the IDF to do when kids play next to rocket launchers??? When parents allow their kids to play next to rocket launchers. When those who launch rockets into Israel do not make sure that children and bystanders are not near? The children of war, a very sad war, whoe's life is worth more? If war was fair we would have no dead soldiers, no dead children, and no innocent bystanders, no Jews or Arabs dead, and only those that use a gun would risk their lives. Mr Levy always blames the IDF, it is not so clear cut.

THat's why I believe a strong moral force, like a Muslim Army, is the only resource to make Jews stop their attrocities against Palestinians. They dont respect even children and have lost all moral limitations in face of what they all a divine mission.

In this week's smear, Mr. Levy implies that Israeli commanders and troops take special delight in targeting the children of Gaza. What utter nonsense. Using a clever trick, tying the Qassam launchings to targeted assassinations, Mr Levy is again faulting Israel for the death of the children. As alway with Mr. Levy, blame the Jew.

Anyone who thows stones at military vehicles and soldiers should be shot on the spot. Anyone who helps terrorist with launchers should be shot. Chilren who play near rocket launchers should be aware there is a good chance they will die..Finally .. what is the definition of 1. a civilian ? and 2. a child in Gaza ? Israel is at war. When the trash people who murder in the name of God put down their arms it will be over and finished and ended.

As the world can see in Iraq, Arabs seem to have no control over their instinct to murder each other and anyone else they can. Thus, the IDF's first responsibility must be to keep Israelis safe. It is very unfortunate that children also get hurt and sometimes killed. The way to prevent this from happening is for the Arabs to change their murderous ways.

It is quite obvious the children of the Islamic radicals are bening taught and trained to be terrorists at a very early age. These children are taught in their school rooms to hate the Jewish people. To become a suicide bomber, or to shoot Jews makes them heros. Their parents condone this, and willingly send their children off to killed. When Isreali forces stop them, before they can kill anyone, the Isrealis' are blamed. This is just an excuse to blame Isrealis for the homicidal teachings of their parents and teachers.

Your posts read like a badly-written propaganda story Dutch, it really is quite amusing. Now its time you woke up from your delirious day-dream and faced reality. The Arabs are intent on slaughtering every last Jew in the Promised Land (which has been occupied for hundreds of years by Muslims). Its only Israel's strength that has prevented it thus far. If you want to talk about "human rights" abuses and "crimes against humanity", you only have to look as far as Hamas and Islamic Jihad et cetera, blowing up buses, cafes, malls and nightclubs full of innocent people is not the behaviour of your beloved "resistance groups". They are the actions of evil, cold-blooded murderers with nothing else on their minds. So stop spouting verbal diarrhea, because no one with half a brain is listening to your lies.

"Anyone who truly seeks to stop the firing of Qassams should reach a cease-fire agreement with the current government in Gaza. That is the only way and it is possible." - G. Levy It is not a cease fire in Gaza that is missing. We have gone through this stage and there was no end to Qassams. What is missing is a global cease fire, including the West Bank. When the IDF raids a ceity in the WB, there are Qassams from Gaza. Why Gaza? Because that's where the Qassams are. Very simple. And when too many Palestinian civilians are killed, there are again Qassams from Gaza. I can't understand why Israel refuses to have a cease fire in the West Bank. The terror groups asked for it; they have a disadvantage there because the IDF can find them anywhere. The IDF, for this very reason, does not agree. But what about Gaza, dummies? This is also part of the equation!

You wrote: "The Palestinian chilodren killed by IDF don't get written about in US papers either." Headline for New York Times article of 30 August 2007: "Israeli Gunfire Kills 3 Children."

If given the CHANCE the numbers would be quite the opposite. The Arabs have attacked Isreal numerous times . The intent? To drive the Jews into the sea. Wll, they lost. In spite of this , they continue to send rockets into Isreal, attack and Kidnap Isreali soldiers, and if the wall and checkpoints were not in place, the number of dead Jews would be much higher. EXCUSE US for killing them before they kill us. It is NOT for lack of trying on their part. People attack you? YOU RESPOND. To NOT do so would be INSANE. Don't want your kids killed, don't send them into situations where they could get killed. WHERE"S your "outrage" that the Islamists would PUT their children into this position? It's "the Jews" fault, right?

a few weeks ago. Their behavior is the problem. Where is the column on all the kids killed by Hamas and Fatah in the infighting? Who will protest that? Ma'an? Al Jazeera? Arab News? Not one has to date. UN should go in to Gaza and remove every child there. PERIOD

You would think that with all the money the US gives to Israel, these IDF forces would have the devices in place to be able to distinguish between someone who is ready to send a rocket launcher or children playing tag. No, the IDF does not give horse manure about Palestinian children. This much is very obvious and has been proven time and time again. Every time I read the statement made by the IDF after the fact it makes me want to vomit!

First of all, even if these killed children were playing tag, we can be sure that they were send on the battlefield by some repulsive hamasniks wanting to make anti-Israeli PR by presenting Israel as a child killer. Moreover, Arabs are not sending rockets as a retaliation against non existant Israeli attacks. These shellings are part of a war of attrition war and their purpose is to turn Southern Israel towns into ghost towns. Gideon Levy is not only a brainwashed Leftist, he is also a major coward. He is afraid to fight anti-Israeli propaganda and he has not the guts to admit that its beloved "peace" policies are a major failure and a path to Israel destruction. Cowards are unable to use they brain and are just led by the desire to escape to the cause of their fear.

The Palestinian children killed by IDF didn't get written about in the US papers either. What do Palestinians have to do to prove they are human beings and not the animals everyone thinks they are? Dogs get more attention in US papers than Palestinian children do. What a truly despicable and pathetic world we live in! It is most unfortunate that we don't have enough Gideon Levy's out there writing and speaking the truth!

You said: "The IDF...cannot fight real men as it proved last July." Are we talking of the same 'real' men that hid behind innocents?! If it weren't for that fact, 90 percent of the Lebanese civilians casualties could have been prevented. Are you a 'real' man? You don't have to answer.

sO... Because Isreal has taken a number of security measures which hinder suicide bombers inside Isreal from blowing more Jews up, and does all it can to prevent the rocketing of Isreali towns , WHAT? Because of Isreals' defensive measures more Pal children get killed the Isreali children, it is ISREALS fault more Pal children get killed then Isreali children? It's NOT like they are not TRYING -a rocket hit a Kindergarten the other day. WHY NOT blame the sub human act of having your own CHILDREN and women in combat zones, on the Islmofacists? MUCH eadier to blame Isreal, right?