Building to destroy the peace process
The only explanation for the government's approval of 240 new housing units in East Jerusalem is that it was an attempt to sabotage the efforts to renew direct peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians.
Haaretz EditorialWhy did the Israeli government see fit to approve, at this particular juncture, the construction of 240 housing units in Jerusalem neighborhoods east of the Green Line? The only explanation is an attempt to sabotage the efforts to renew direct negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians.
Washington's angry response, that this announcement was "contrary to our efforts to resume direct negotiations between the parties," and the subsequent cancelation of a scheduled meeting between Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in France, both attest to the fact that the attempted sabotage succeeded. The boost given to Abbas' argument that Israel is at fault for the failure of the direct talks, and the simmering tensions in the East Jerusalem neighborhood of Silwan, demonstrate the extent of Israel's political recklessness.
Israel has offered three rationales for its decision to approve the housing. Firstly, it notified the United States in advance that it intended to build in these areas; secondly, there is a housing shortage in Jerusalem; and finally, under no circumstances should Israel "condition" the Palestinians to treat Jerusalem as just another settlement.
The early notice is certainly consistent with the government's pledge that it would not surprise Washington - as it did during Vice President Joe Biden's visit to the region in March, resulting in a diplomatic crisis between the two countries. But giving early notice on an unacceptable decision does not legitimize it.
And while there is indeed a housing shortage in Jerusalem, the solution to this problem cannot be to construct in areas whose status is in dispute.
On the issue of whether the Palestinians view Jerusalem as a settlement, they are not the only ones who hold this position. The United States also regards the territories that have been annexed and incorporated into Jerusalem as settlements, whose final status must be agreed upon in talks between the two sides.
Expanding construction beyond the Green Line puts Jerusalem at the center of international discussion. It also contradicts the government's goal of postponing any talks on the future of the city to as great an extent as possible. This construction is an inseparable part of our disagreement with both the Palestinians and the United States, and it would behoove Israel to recognize this. The government must stop pulling the wool over our eyes and cease taking such unilateral steps, which not only lessen our chances of reaching a deal with the Palestinians, but also cause considerable diplomatic damage.
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Oh Really? What valid excuses had Muhammed Bin Abdulmuttalib to destroy the three Jewish tribes in Medina? What valid excuses had Muslim to extend their rule from Morocco to Indonesia? What valid excuses had Muslim to take Constantinople in 1453? What valid excuses have to marry 4 wives? Ah to destroy other religions because Allah 's religion is only Islam. And who can say Allah is wrong? Allah send Mohammed a verse saying: " Mohammed go and slaughter the Jews in Madina, take their gold from them and decorate your wives that will stop them feeling envious. Great is the will of Allah. Mohammed obeyed. Istaslama to Allah's wish. And every wish of Mohammed was fulfilled.
Terrorism does.
All that exists is a nonsense orchestrated by Obama. In another 2 years, that idiot will be gone and his republican replacement will hopefully permit our Gov't to increase the building.
and you realize that all israel's illegal antics are possible only by the permission of the US
The American administration has got to stop walking on eggshells here, and acknowledge that the Israeli government does not want the peace process to succeed. These announcements of settlement expansion are calculated to make the Palestinian Authority give up in exasperation, so Netanyahu can shift the blame from himself. We can help only by permanently ceasing all military aid to Israel and stopping "Christian Zionist" money from reaching Jewish zealots in the illegal settlements. If we're serious, that is.
the late '60s. Halof the Jewish population of Jerusalem lives across the defunct "Green Line". The only thing new about all this is American opposition, which has sparked and encouraged Palestinian opposition. The US shut up for 40 years; let it shut itsw big mouth now too.
so you want them to keep sending free money to israel, no strings attached, but if they criticize illegal and immoral actions israel takes, then suddenly they're overstepping their bounds? people like you are why the phrase "wanting to have your cake and eat it too" was invented
are you sure you want to give it to the Arabs?
that adding another few hundres illegal houses, to already built illegal houses makes any of them kosher... they were all conceived in sin... only giving the Pals a chunk of sovreign Israel in return, might kosher the original treif building on Pal territory...
Since when can a government decide it will build houses on its neighbor's territory?
The Lebanese atrocities toward the Palestinians have been tolerated by the international community, not only by the media. Today, while some Israeli military commanders have to think twice, in fear of legal consequences, before they visit London or Brussels, well-known Lebanese leaders who had directly participated in mass killings of Palestinian civilians, during and after the Lebanese civil war, are becoming world-respected political figures – Nabih Berri, for example, the leader of Amal Shi’ite militia who enforced a multi-year siege on Palestinian camps, cutting water access and food supplies to them. The Palestinians underBerri’s siege were reported to be consuming rats and dogs to survive. Nonetheless, he has been the undisputed speaker of the Lebanese parliament for a long time. He travels frequently to Europe and criticizes Israel for its “crimes against the Palestinians” on every occasion. MANY OTHER Arab countries are no different than Lebanon in their ill-treatment and discrimination against the Palestinians. Why do the media choose to ignore those and focus only on Israel? While the security wall being built by Israel has become a symbol of “apartheid” in the global media, they almost never address the actual walls and separation barriers that have been isolating Palestinian refugee camps in Arab countries for decades. While Palestinians targeted by the IDF are mostly fighters pledging war on Israel, the world swiftly overlooked the Sabra and Shatila massacre in which Lebanese Christian and Shi’ite militiamen butchered thousands of Palestinian women and children. Unsurprisingly, the international media accused Israel of being responsible for the massacre, despite the fact that live testimonies aired by Al-Jazeera satellite television a few years ago show massacre survivors confirming that IDF commanders and soldiers had nothing to do with the killing. The demonization of Israel by the global media has greatly harmed the Palestinians’ interests for decades and covered up Arab atrocities against them. Furthermore, demonizing Israel has been well-exploited by several Arab dictatorships to direct citizens’ rage against Israel instead of their regimes and also to justify any atrocities they commit in the name of protecting their nations from “the evil Zionists.” This game has served some of the most notorious Arab dictatorships, and still does today, as any opposition is immediately labelled “a Zionist plot.” This model had served Gamal Abdel Nasser in ruling Egypt with an iron fist until he died, and was the main line for Saddam Hussein, who was promoting that “Iraq and Palestine are one identical case” in his last years in power. The global media must be fair in addressing the Palestinians’ suffering in Arab countries and must stop demonizing Israel. It should start focusing on the broader conditions of the Palestinians in the Middle East region.
The ball is in Israel's court. If you want to continue building in E Jslm, you need to put your counter offer of what part of E Jslm you want to be part of Israel on paper. Submit the Israeli peace map where the homes you are constructing are inside of Israeli peace borders. Otherwise stop building if you don't have the balls to put your map on paper.
the rightist government of Israel will not cease taking such unilateral steps, nor using every means at their disposal to lessen the chances of reaching a deal with Palestinians, nor causing diplomatic damage where it can. There will be no peace till Bibi, Lieberman, and Eli Yishai, at the very least, are replaced.
Haaretz could it make public its criteria for selection of comments? The choices often seem quite arbitrary. Is there freedom of expression in Israel or the left has also sunk in religious intolerance against views she does not want to hear?
Netanyahu was on the right track when highlight ing the sorts of issues where the Palestinians remain unreasonable even in the eyes of the World. He did this last week when asking them to acknowledge what the UN Resoution said when endosring the formation of a State for the Jews back in 1947. Let's have more of this!! But to resort to petty provocations by authorising building only serves to confuse the world into believing that the issues between the Palestinians are just about settlement building. Why would any well meaning Israeli Leader want to do that???
from what i see there is no support, even the EUand the UN do not support this. so tell us exactly what you mean by the eyes of the world?
Israel can do whatever it pleases - it's its own country. But the question for everyoone else on the planet is whether or not they want to support Israels policies. As an American I fail to see why the Israelis and Palestinians shouldn't be treated equally, so I propose that the Palestinians in the West Bank be allowed to build settlements west of the Green Line, in particular in Jewish parts of Jerusalem.
#9 Edgar's comment captures just how weak U.S. intervention is and will continue to be. What is Israel's fundamental strategic relationship? Duh! What do you think Bibi and Barak's focus has been over the last two years? Whatever Obama does after the election, Bibi has a response because even if Obama were to bring pressure all that would result would be a more immediate apocalypse with many Americans openly opposing their government and Evangelicals and others sending money and missions of support to Israel. Is that so bad for the Israeli right wing? A more moderate scenario is likelier but the price of Obama pressuring Israel is too high! It is no coincidence that the issues Bibi has maneuvered the debate to be over is "Israel Jewish and Democratic" which appeals to over 95% of American Jewry (and the majority of Americans) & Jerusalem which has more opponents than the above but again makes the issue the meaning of Jewish, and not Palestinian, dignity. Obama & Biden, taking a stand on and in Jerusalem was not bright, especially if one wishes to avoid Armageddon. The symbiosis of Bibi and the Israeli and American right after the mid-term elections will only increase the polarity of right and left, only that what will be surging in the USA will be the right.
I wouldn't say that I like the content, but it sounds logical.
Because the very bottom line is that foreign policy is the president's sole domain - and I'll tell you what...once he realizes that re-election isn't likely, there's nothing to stop him from exercising his will...he's absolutely NOT reliant on congress in matters of foreign policy.
When talks failed under Clinton, Arafat was blamed. Now it will be Bibi who takes over for Arafat in being the one to blame. Bibi is the new Arafat.
Why would anyone suspect Liberman and Netanyahu intend to destroy the peace talks?
Israel is by definition the homeland of the Jews. As far as the Arabs are concerned, the fact that Israel does not want to become another Arab state is an obstacle to peace. Nothing that is Israel does or does not will change that.
"Washington's angry response..." you say? That it was "disappointed"? Some anger.
that the present Israeli Government does not really want to postpone to a great length of time the discussions and delineating the boundaries which surround the capital of Jerusalem. In other words, possibly they recognize that parts of East Jerusalem will be under Palestinian sovereignty and better include the status of Jerusalem as a core issue with the direct talks. Wow, how far we've come since the days of Jerusalem's former mayor, Teddy Kollek! I'm sure many people miss him as well.
The broadcast tonight made pretty clear that the mayor and the settlers don't want any agreement. They prefer something else. Expulsion comes to mind as the mayor was entirely unconvincing in his denials. And the drive down of the kid from last week was pretty obvious as a deliberate hit and run. 100 million Americans saw that "accident." live and in color.
I am still in shock that the footage of the "accident" made it on the air. Maybe a few Americans will seek alternative sources to find out what all the "settlement " fuss is about. Chris Hayes wrote in interesting column for the Nation and he is Rachel Maddow's friend. If Rachel ever can leave DADT and visit the Occupied Territories the tide of American opinion would move away from the blind loyalty we demand of our Congressmen.
....NOBODY watches Rachel Maddow or anyone on MSNBC. It will take much more to change America's overwhelming support of Israel.
The broadcast tonight made pretty clear that the mayor and the settlers don't want any agreement. They prefer something else. Expulsion comes to mind as the mayor was entirely unconvincing in his denials. And the drive down of the kid from last week was pretty obvious as a deliberate hit and run. 100 million Americans saw that "accident." live and in color.
Netanyahu postponed new settlements for TEN months!. TEN!! Did the PA negotiate? No. Do they have any intention of negotiations? After 10 years, it's doubtful. OR as Abba Eban said 47 years ago, the "Palestinians never miss an opportunity, to miss an opportunity." If they've not changed in 50 years, why would they change in 10 months, or 50 mos.? Build the settlements and let them stew. Because they refuse to negotiate, then let Israel move on.
... because Israel has made up its mind to maximize the invasion and appropriation of Pal land in every possible way ASAP... in any case Lieberman's Israel has already started the ball rolling in every sphere...
If you were any more right wing, you'd drop off the scale.
Did Abba Eban say (late 1973, after Yom Kippur War): "The "Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity", as frequently quoted (today by Chafeefka)? No, because at the time Israel did not recognize the existence of a Palestinian people, and the saying referred to a peace attempt with the Arab countries that fought in the recent War. Eban said: "The ARABS never miss..." Since 1973, the Arabs showed that they don't always miss good opportunities, by Egypt and Jordan making peace with Israel, and more recently the Saudi plan of peace with all Arabs. In order to keep the Eban gem relevant, the accusation was tranferred to the Palestinians. But since Abbas seems to be seriously interested in peace, I think a better "Eban" quote would be "Likudniks never miss an opportunity etc." After all, Begin objected to the Un Partition Resolution of 1947 so a state would not have been established if he were in power. In 1979 Begin made peace with Egypt (to his credit), but undermined the solution of the Palestinian problem which was also agreed to with Egypt. From then to Netanyahoo, it is one miss after the other.
We waited ten month. Nobody came to talk. That's enough.Its our country, and we build where we want. According to the self-defeating left-wing logic, if we don't build Palestinians shouldn't talk because they want more and harden their positions, and if we build then we are to blame. As usual, the left-wing attacks with hypocrisy, without clearing themselves first.
This stupid comment makes me wonder if the commentator can read and follow what is happening in this world. He probably is to stupid to realize that the Zionist had nothing to do on the West Bank or eastern Jerusalem in the first place.
Look at the negotiations to end the Viet Nam war...3-4 years in negociatiation. The orginal plan at ten months, started as woefully inadequate short time period. All of this indicates that Israelis do not want Peace...there's talk and talk but no definitive steps of action towards the peace process.
Like it or lump it.
Everything rests in Obama's hands...unfortunately. The simple truth is we are not ready for peace with the Palestinians or with anyone else. What happens now depends entirely on Obama. One alternative is for him to give up on the peace process...walk away. A second alternative, not much different from the first, is to push on...weakly, The outcome of both is predictable...Abbas will resign, the PA will disband and we march on toward one-state. The third alternative is for Obama to toughen up and to impose a very high price (VERY high) on Israel if it continues to block peace. This may be bad for Obama, but the best thing for us.
Let's face it, it was a nice little pet dream, but everyone should have known that the likelihood of Bibi undergoing such a fundamental change of view was virtually nil...especially when absolutely nothing he was actually doing was matching up to his rhetoric. The whole charade over the last 10 months has been nothing more than a series of strategic moves in a game that Bibi is playing, with the final ones yet to come. BUT...after decades, Israeli games have become predictable...so it's likely that Obama's been playing a little game of his own...
The 240 housing units per se won't put an obstacle to the rise of a Palestinian state, as they are technically in the eastern side of the holy city, not a hilltop condo. But they are a symbol. It's hard to interpret it, but the word "reckless" is well put. As a symbol it creates mistrust. Worse, it is the flesh of Palestinian mistrust. Its timing cannot be understated either. It comes when the US is desperate to have a constructive set of gestures by both sides leading to trust. And trust is the sine qua non element for peace, that is sorely lacking. If it was lacking before this permit, now it's lacking all the mores so. Not because of the units themselves, but for the message it signals. The Israeli government lost its head somewhere, some time ago. A new Israeli coalition could fix the Israeli side of the trust equation. On the Palestinian side, Abbas saying Palestine will never recognize israel as a Jewish state, is exactly what breaks the trust among Israelis. He could have declared that the timing is wrong, that placing that condition now is inadequate, but not to rule it out of hand. What an undortunate pair of childish peace-partners both parts are. And worse, Obama is childish too.
No coalition combination or outright Government has, ever.
the palestinians will never recognise israel as the national home of the jewish people. there is no substantial difference between the plo and hamas. neither will renounce the so-called right of return. that is the reason for the refusal to recognise israel as the jewish homeland. as for obama, read the article in the guardian newspaper on the formation of the new iraqi government. iran, syria, sadr and hezbollah agreed that nuri al malaqi will be prime minister. iran will be the new master in iran. the reaction of the us is quite mind bending but typical of obama.
needs to have it's property lines surveyed and clearly marked by a neutral surveyor.
Let's put ourselves inside the Palestinian narrative for a moment, and not what we understand their "never missing an opportunity to miss an opportunity" truth. They feel they have been harmed by Jews claiming our homeland to be in their turf. So any concession, from their perspective, is treason: leaving one family with the old keys and Ottoman permit in Jordan, Syria, Lebanon or Kuweit. The existance of Israel, as absolutely right, legitimate and necessary as it is, is perceived by them, as more than a concession, a betrayal. That narrative is what fuels both Hamas and Fatah. Hamas resorts to the most brutal, random terrorism known against innocent Israelis, and Fatah, after resorting to it too 2000 - 2005 (Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades) has apparently shifted its focus towards managing their areas of the West Bank so that Palestinian citizenry feels good, and raises its living standards. It has largely achieved it. Now back to the question: Is Abbas ready to "commit the treason" of truly recognizing that it's not only Arabs who have a right to the Holy Land, but Jews too, according to history, to facts, to the Origin in Judea of Jews from all the diasporas? My answer would be: He feels pissed off. He feels aggravated that all the while the bull-dozers build in the area of the state that the Israeli PM has said a Palestinian state will emerge, Israeli settlers are coming and building (sometimes destroying). A flagrant contradiction. And that anger, resentment, makes the acceptance or recognition of Israel as a Jewish state more and more difficult. It makes the "surrender" more impossible to sell. If there wasn't a sense of sell-out, Hamas wouldn't thrive. So the way to help Abbas come to recognize Israel -if he and the PLO ever will- is to mitigate the anger, lifte their pride, and make them feel that "Karameh" -honor- is in peace and recognition, not elsewhere. Israel has so far largely ignored what I am writing here, and considers it Bobe Maises. But it's not. We Jews, and Israelis, have a psyche too, have issues that are deeply emotional. When Palestinians shoot at our Kindergardens, it's not only terrorism of the worst, objective kind, it's the "Never Again" of our whole history of being butchered, gazed and cremated that boild in our blood. There is a resonance box. Palestinians not only commit a crime, they pushed Israelis further and further to the right, until they got sick from Palestinians and the very word "peace process". It's understandable too. So my point, after this long Megillah is: Build trust. Make sure your actions help trust and don't run against "Karameh" unless it's absolutely necessary for self-defense. And even so, there are nuances.