As the Hamas team laughs

"Why should israel feed her enemy.They want the jobs.Let Iran and Hamas and other arab nations provide for their jobs.Gideon never mantion that times the palestinian used to have freedom without any checkpoint they could travel all part of israel for jobs and entertainment and there was no`t povrity in w.b and gaza.And what brought them to this situation.I remind to you.Second intifadah and of waves suicide bombers in to israel.and lasted of thousands innocence poeples by support of all terrorism groups.Enough is enough." You are dumb and should probably not post on websites. Furthermore, The Palestinian Authority is a puppet government, basically given the duties of an occupuying nation: infrastructure and whatnot. Israel are occupuying Palestine, passing the buck on to the Palestinians and calling it self government. They don't even controll their own roads. Thats like: Here! have your house back that we stole. But you can't travel from room to room. And we have to check your mail.

if we germans tells something against israel(idf,establihsment,politics,stolen land,crimes on civilians,women and children etc.) NOT AGAINST JEWS !!! immediately we get a blow with the big club HOLOCOUST,NEO-NAZI, ANTI-Semite. your leaders are monsters!! such excessiv inhumanity !!! not enough dead CHILDREN????? your water-authority is a gang!! if a had a bank-account of HAMAS i will send my last EURO to them !!! and your naive peple ask: why we are dislike by nearly the whole world??????????????? we want PEACE!!

I have no partisanship to either side. I'm neither Arab or Jewish. I am sickened by the attitude of the Israeli government and a sizeable portion of the Israeli population that looks the other way to this. Hate Hamas...Hate suicide terrorists...hate Israeli occupation troops...but don't make the regular Israeli and Palestinian people suffer. There is no moral defense to being so cruel and apathetic to the suffering of others. In this instance, it's the Israeli government that's wrong, and these actions will play right into the hands of Hamas.

I am not sure which side you were coming from, but in the year 2000 Israel and the Pals economy were better than ever before, then the intifada began and the Pals ruined everything including hurting themselves and their children. Why are people so horrified that unelected israelis apparently (Many mistakes in this newspaper) made these comments. While Pals can call for killing all Israelis and that is ok.

To the "moral" gang, even if Dov Weissglas joke was in poor taste, it has to be noted that what Hamas and the Palestinias want is TO DESTROY ISRAEL and KILL THE JEWS. How about writing about that Mr Levy

Between the third quarter of 2000 and 2004, unemployment in the Occupied Territories jumped from 10%-26%. According to World Bank estimates, poverty in Palestinian populations has tripled over the last three years. Around 47% of Palestinians live below poverty thresholds and 600,000 cannot afford to meet their basic needs. In 2002, USAID published preliminary findings of its survey of food availability, household consumption and nutritional levels, in the West Bank and Gaza. Follow up surveys were conducted in a variety of areas at fortnightly intervals until March 2003. This research demonstrated a consistent high rate of financial hardship and consequential nutritional deprivation with no sign of improvement in household consumption of foods rich in protein, micronutrients and essential fatty acids. Around 65% of households consistently reported buying less protein rich foods such as meat, fish and chicken, while around 20-30% reported that they were also buying less staples, including bread, rice and potatoes. Throughout the period of the study, households reporting decreased purchase of foods rich in protein did not fall below 50%. Food assistance from aid agencies provides a form of temporary survival for the most needy but has little effect on long-term health problems associated with deficiencies in protein, essentially fatty acids and micronutrients affecting all ages in the West Bank and Gaza. Unborn babies are particularly vulnerable to this kind of mal-nutrition, particularly when it begins at conception and accelerates during infancy and childhood. In the latest demographic and health survey of the Occupied Territories, the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics (PCBS) has reported growing evidence of chronic malnourishment in children under five. In 2004, 9.4% of this age group had stunted growth; 25.3% higher than 2000: 4.0% were underweight; 60.6% higher than 2000 while 1.9% showed evidence of wasting; 35.7% higher than 2000. These trends indicate that there has been a dramatic rise in under-nutrition beginning in the womb and accelerating in the first five years of life. On the basis of current research findings on malnutrition, the long term physical and psychological effects on unborn Palestinian babies are likely to be devastating.

amazing all what i can read in this post. people joking about if in gaza there are fat people and its why they are not hungry. what are you talking about? does the kids of africa have somthing in their stomach cuz its big? ya allah. until here your cinism. i cant go on readoing all these posts. u think that stoping the aids to palestinians we will solve something? i remember u that lots of people, inside our "perfect" society is dying of hunger also. maybe we should spend some of our army and wall kesef in this.

Durban is a city that suits you well!!!!!!!! Heard about Antisemitic acts during the forum organized there???? Were you then denouncing verbal attacks against Jews? For it was really too bad for the "image" of your city. You see the mote in the Jews' eye but not the beam in your own

Very poor taste!! Wake up you people you are doing a lot of harm to your country's image. This is the equivalent of white South Africans joking about the Blacks during the apartheid years.

HEIL KARL! Not only do I strongly oppose your opinions (I don't want to lose time answering to such stpid arguments as yours) but above all I don't appreciate your tone and the quotation marks you put on the name of the person you replied to: "BUHADANA" Hope YOU can sleep well by night...

Lindsay, you are right on. The real problem is that most Palestinians, and especially Hamas who now "rules", do not consider Jews to be human beings at all, whereas Israelis do respect Palestinians but fear being killed by them. It may sometimes appear that Israel is vicious in it's tactics, but I think it is simply being extremely defensive. If Hamas simply "recognized" Israel's right to exist, they probably really would have 90% of the West Bank in a week. Before you consider Israel to be inhumane, racist, etc. consider this: 1) Israel is the only nation on earth to ever take blacks out of Africa for the purpose of their freedom instead of their enslavement (the ancient Ethiopean community). Not too racist to me. 2) Israel ALLOWED an election in which leaders committed to it's destruction won. Who else would do that? If a European nation freely elected a neo-Nazi government, I don't think their neighbors would sit by and do nothing eithe

they have sown. Their country has become a den of weapons merchants, drug dealers, blood money launderers, and sex slave pimps. Now they sit in their cabinet meetings laughing about starving Palestian children! They are no better than Himmler. Shame be onto you israel! Unless your change one day even innocent jews will pay for the transgression of the criminal elements within your society. Your war god yahweh will not protect you. Your money changers and international financiers will not save you. The usa will not protect you. Your weapons of mass destruction will not shelter you from the kharma you have willed upon yourselves. And no one will shed a tear when it happens.

[Thanks for many eye-opening articles in Haaretz] The whole idea to impose economic siege - reminds most of all of the tormentors method to hold the victims head under the water just until drowning - to let him die is against the plan. To freeze al economic support even on international level. No, not totally all. That would cause desperation and chaos, so the US advisors say. A bit more, a bit less... Just enough to keep people still hope they can survive if they 'do not share'; if they fight each other. And more control with the Gaza boarder? ... and with the different surrounded towns in the West Bank? ... Tell me how far we are from future camps of extermination ... Even Condoleezza Rice would not be tempted to laugh.

Thank for an inspiring article by Gideon Levy on Haaretz on 02/19/2006. I guess there is still hope for 2 people to live in peace and harmony. Peace

Your comments reflect an enlightened mind we usually associate with traditional Jewish values. Unfortunately Israel has lost its ethical and moral values by undertaking the radical policy of occupation. Can it ever regain its moral authority or will the Jewish communities outside Israel become the guardians of Jewish values?

Just a quick glance and I see that the Israelis and their supporters are hateful and racists. We have in Texass the Christian zionists who are more vile and hatefull. They give bad name to Christianity

www.somethingjewish.co.uk

this says A LOT about you too.

Lindsey, What does exactly victory mean to you?? Putting people in misery so they have more incentives to blow themselves up? Well that surely is going to make things more "tolerable" for everybody...

I read your post with interest...You have to believe that Palestianins and Arabs want to live in peace and no one wants to elect anyone who wants to destroy the Jews or israelis. What are you afraid of when you have nuclear warheads and F-15s? Hamas will have to change its attitude and accept a two-state solution so that we could all dream of a lasting peace. Palestinians voted for Hamas because the previous PA could not deliver and people have limits when it comes to living under OCCUPATION, and this is the root cause my friend. It does not need an Einstein to figure this out!

I am also shocked at this perverted remark but, excuse me, less shocked than read about the Protocols of Zion in the Hamas protocol. We are unless you didnt know it, a very frightened people. Close to 50per cent of Israeli are first second or third generation holocaust survivors ( the one that didnt happen). We didnt come here for the diamonds or the oil or to subjugate another people. In the worlds insane nationalim or religous fanaticism we need to scratch a tiny peace of land for ourselves, at least for the time being. The only hope for the Palestinian is making peace with us and join us in the high tech world! Instead they voted in a bunch of guys who want me dead. Like my family who were brutally murdered in Lithuania.I dont see the Palestians as cousins but as brothers. I do believe and want them to have properous with a future for all. Just one small request - never compare anything with the holocaust- if you do, your ideas are inconsequencial and try, honestly, to learn.

The extreme cruelty of Israeli establishment created extreme reaction in Hamas.Medrate people like Gideon Levy are the solution and not the Weissglases.

How can we be part of a world were the leader of the UN on the day the state of Israel was created celebrated palestinian solidarity day with the palestinians and the picture shows the UN flag and the Pals flag with a map of Israel in the middle. The problem with this picture is Israel is not on the map. Will we ever be accepted by the world that is the question. OUR SECURITY COMES BEFORE WORLD ACCEPTANCE.

I would love Israel to become a member of the larger international community, but this will never happen when anti-Israel lobbies have a foothold on the UN. We re the only non-permanent member of the UN and are the only temporary member with no demographic group to be part of because the arab countries continously say no. The double standards in the world against us are already exagerated. Israel is the only country in the world that is not eligible to sit on the Security Council, the principal policy making body of the U.N. This situation violates the principle of the "sovereign equality of all member states" of the U.N. under Article 2 of the U.N. Charter. The U.N. has repeatedly held "Emergency Special Sessions" focusing solely on Israel. Originally conceived in 1950 for emergencies like the Korean War, over the past 15 years they have only focused on Israel. No Emergency Special Sessions were convened to examine the genocide in Rwanda, ethnic cleansing in the former Yogoslavia etc

...which such a model...why you dont have a State? ...which such a model...why Gaza no clean?

I do appreciate very much the time and trouble that both of you have taken to respond to me with clear, true and objective facts. Despite the good picture there still is a nutrition and a health problem, 60 % poverty rate, 50% cply depending on food aid , 22% children undernourished, 15% children with anaemia, etc. and my point is that Israel mustn't worsen this situation, for ethical and political reasons. Political and humanitarian problems must be handled separately. I think Israel must stop collective punishment and not fight against the helpless civilian population which does not participate in the conflict. As I said the target must be to ensure the long term survival of Israel in prosperity and a safe peace and this cannot be enforced by any form of violence. (It cannot be reached by brainless appeasement either, the truth is in the middle). Thank you again.

Apparently heartlessness towards non-Jews is one of the essences of zionism, and it is something not just for the Israeli higher echelons. And these people still ask for charity on behalf of hungry Israeli children, while spending billions on illegal settlements, fences and colonists? Israel really needs to lose some weight, around the belt. It's proper figure resembles more the land within the green line, without the ugly bulge of the West Bank.

Mr. Weissglas has the right to joke about whatever subject he chooses. What he does not have is the right to collectively punish the Palestinian people for their choice in elections. Furthermore, if the likes of him did not weaken Fatah, Hamas would have lost. If the big idea is "Hamas does not recognize Israel as a state", his predecessors, Golda and others, for decades, did not even recognize that there is such thing as a "Palestinian people". Use of force has gotten Israel no security for the last 58 years. Does it hurt to attempt truthfully the road of peace? Nachum Goldman (x-president of the World Zionist Org, and one of the creators of the state of Israel) pushed for such a route. Sadly, even he was ignored and belittled by his Zionist brethren, such as Begin, who would not attend his funeral.

Great article, if only every Israeli could read it!

ISRAEL IS REPEATING THE SAME OLD MISTAKE. DONT FORGET THAT A BIG PERCENTAGE OF THE SUCCESS OF HAMAS IN THE ELECTIONS WAS DUE TO THE FREEZING OF PEACE PROCESS ,, ISRAELIS DO NOT DO IT AGAIN , TRY TO FIND A SOLUTION WITHOUT HARMING THE NORMAL PEOPLE. THE HUMILATION STARTED AGAIN , YESTERDAY IT TOOK ME ONE HOUR TO LEAVE JERICHO ,,, THE QUESTION WHY ,,,, HAMAS DIDNT WIN IN JERICH???? WHY PUNISHING THE CITY ..... PLEASE THINK AGAIN AND TRY TO FIND A SOLUTION TO PLEASE BOTH SIDES ...

IF you really love the palestinians so much and want to be "MOral", why dont you move out there with Hamas, who for sure are "going to change" and get involved in assisting needy, destitute starving Palestinians? ...Or, are you afraid that the very people you pity would laugh at you and murder you satanically before you would even take a step past that border? Why dont you back up your so called truth with actions? Or, do you really not believe it yourself?

Wow. Until reading this article, I had no idea how messed up the left really is. A. Israel is not cutting off Humanitarian funds. The joke, wasnt to be taken literally in terms of actual hunger! But as a metaphor for a political financial situation. B. Palestinian poverty is definately not caused or even related to Israel. Their government is completely messed up.. They recieved $600 million just last year alone from the European Union, but their leaders are corrupt and squander it. C. If you call it Immoral of Israel to sit by as a neighboring country or people sits in poverty, I think its more immoral of Israel to ignore the poverty going on right here in Israel itself.. D. And I dont believe you for a second that you believe Hamas will change, unless you are completely demented, or have no education in History, put together with no intelligence.

Hello, Gabe1. Yesterday I got a bit frustrated. A good number of my posts weren't published. I'll try today. Wish me luck.

There are more than enough articles (some true some not) about the Palestinian suffering. Israel is not the one that is making that people suffer. Their corrupt government and their manipulative brothers are making millions with their suffering. When are you going to write about that, Mr Humanity?

Les, my friend, listen here, I love reading the Old Testament, and I have always wondered, maybe you could help out here, the Israelites, led by Jacob, son of Isaac, son of Abraham, left Canaan during the famine for the fleshpots of Egypt. When they got kicked out, they went back to Canaan, in the meantime, those hard-working Canaanites, who had stuck out the famine, had made a land of "milk and honey," as reported by the spies. So then God says that his people, after getting commandments not to steal, kill, covet neighbor's goods, are to take "cities which you have not built...wells which you have not dug...vineyards and olive groves that you have not planted..." AND KILL EVERY LIVING BEING...all those women and babies! Spare only the whore Rahab and her family because she betrayed her own people to a horrible massacare! What gives? Someone explain! I am losing my faith in the Bible. HELP!

a voice of reason; a ray of light onto darkness. It is people like Gideon that makes the world a decent place.

Salve, Tulip, here I am, the naughty unbeliever! But I do agree heartily on the honour killing problem. It is a result of the grossest ignorance and male insecurity. Over 5000 women and girls are killed each year, mostly in Yemen, Jordan, Lebanon, West Bank, etc., Turkey, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Uganda, Brazil, Peru, Ecuador. Education is the answer! Islam does not condone honour killing. There is an excellent course on the Quran at a local university, taught by a PhD Lebanese lady, daughter of an imam, who is very modern and wears Western clothes, and she really gives it to the misinterpreters and old fashioned crazies. Le crime passionnel was not outlawed in Italy until the 1960's (remember Mastroianni in "Divorce Italian Style?"). Back in the early 60's, when I was at univesrity, there was a white Southern girl on campus who was living with four black men. Her father came up and shot all of them. Ignorance must be wiped out. Il faut ecraser l'infame!

A close observer and sympathizer of the Palestinians, such as Gideon Levy, should use his talents for more serious endevours, such as analyzing the effects of Hamas gaining power (which makes an independent Palestine a more remote possibility) instead of wasting them, and the newspaper's space, by writing a whole article about a stupid tasteless "joke". His obsession and lack of proportion is making him pathetic. Gideon Levy himself is becoming a sad joke.

There is no other word, pure racism. Amazing that those who suffered most from racism in history are now behaving in the most bestial racism ever seen. The world should know that Palestine has officially become a concentration/extermination camp.

i dont take you seriosly man nobody does.it will be good that you will be in school tomorrow.for your own well being, during recess keep from insulting other people it may get you detention.

Gideon Levy says "We stopped talking about morality a long time ago" Becoming moral is a personal struggle. Whether you are a Muslim, a Christian or a Jew, it is YOU, Gideon, who must strive and become moral. If morality is what you want, why can't you exert to become more moral by becoming a better Israeli? Why one has to embrace a dark faith such as Islam that resembles a cult of terror (Majority of Pales are Muslim) in order to become moral ? The only thing Islam/Palestinians/Hamas has is FEAR. Islam frightens its followers with the imagery of a dreadful hell. Do we really need that stick to do the right thing and be moral?

Meir Weisnstein is a Kahanist who call for the expulsion of Arabs fromIsrael and the PA.If you think that can be excused for some reason have a good time.I like many other Jews care about Israel as much as he doesand come torather different conclusions.His beliefs are abnormal Ronnie.

That Vickery is a real wierdo,he is a crank dont let him get under your skin buddy.

You are talking about expelling millions ofpeople from their ancestral homes.What is the matter with you?How would that be done?What if they dont agree?Do we kill them?Burn their villages?Drive women and children like cattle before the whip?How dowedo this ??Tell me.

NOMADIC AND ARAB PEOPLE DO BELEIVE IN FORCE. THE JEWS DO NOT ACCEPT THIS VIEW. WE HAVE RETURNED TO ISRAEL, THE LAND OF THE BIBLE. THAT SAME BIBLE THAT THE WORLD RECOGNIZES. AND THERE WERE JEWISH KINGS AND A TWO TEMPLES AND MANY JEWISH PROPHETS AND EVEN THE JEW JESUS LIVED IN ISRAEL AND WENT TO THE TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM. AND SO JEWS ARE BACK IN ISRAEL JUST LIKE THE BIBLE SAID AND WE JEWS WILL DEFEND OUR RIGHT TO LIVE. AND WE BELEIVE THAT NO ONE ELSE WILL FIGHT FOR OUR RIGHT TO LIVE. THE WORLD DID NOTHING WHILE THE NAZIS OF EUROPE MURDERED JEWS BY THE MILLIONS. SO IF WE OFFEND THE ARAB DESIRE FOR CONQUEST, WELL THAT IS JUST THE WAY IT IS.

International borders are a relatively recent and often arbitrary phenomenon, seldom recognised by nomadic people who would have had free passage for centuries. Israel has been demarkated for less than 60 years, so your argument against a Palestinian state is not valid. Hamas grew out of an Islamic group which Menachem Begin encouraged, in the 70s to counter the influence of Fatah. Blame a former Israeli Prime Minister for the current situation.

Ey'ze Shtoyut... Boaz Sharon

YOU EITHER DO NOT UNDERSTAND HISTORY OR JUST HATE JEWS. THE FACT IS THAT AFTER THE ROMANS, THERE HAS ALWAYS BEEN JEWISH COMMUNITIES IN ISRAEL FOR THE PAST 2,000 YEARS. SOME YEARS THE COMMUNITIES HAVE BEEN SMALL AND SOME YEARS LARGE. THE OTHER FACT IS THAT THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A PALESTINIAN GOVERNMENT IN ISRAEL IN ANY OF THOSE YEARS. TO THE SYRIANS, PALESTINE IS SOUTHERN SYRIA. DO YOU THINK JORDAN HAS BEEN AROUND FOR 2,OOO YEARS OR CLOSE, WELL GUESS AGAIN. NO, THE ARABS SEE IT AS AN INSULT TO HAVE JEWS RULE AT ALL IN THE MIDDLE EAST. AND HUMAN RIGHTS DO NOT EXIST IN ARAB COUNTRIES. BUT, I COME FROM A SMALL PEOPLE, 14 MIILION OF US IN THE WORLD COMPARED TO 1.4 BILLION MUSLIMS. WE JEWS JUST WANT TO HAVE SOME STABILITY IN OUR TINY LITTLE COUNTRY CALLED ISRAEL.

YOU JUST DO NOT GET IT. ISRAEL MADE A BLUNDER IN 1967. THE ARABS WERE RUNNING TO JORDAN AND MOSHE DAYAN STOPPED THEM AND THOUGHT WE CAN ALL GET ALONG. AND SO ISRAEL MADE IMPROVEMENTS IN THEIR LIVES. ISRAEL BELEIVED IN COEXISTANCE. THAT WAS THE POLICY. AND THE POLICY CENTERED AROUND THE ALON PLAN. ABBA EBAN CALLED THE 67 BORDERS THE HOLOCAUST BORDERS. AND THE SETTLEMENTS ALSO WERE BUILT IN THE SPIRIT OF COEXISTANCE. THIS POLICY WAS A FAILURE. THE 2 STATE SOLUTION HAPPENED IN 1948 AND THE ARABS WENT TO WAR. NOW WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE DISSENGAGEMENT PLAN AGAIN ALONG THE LINES OF THE ALON PLAN. THE FACT IS MANY OF THE ARABS OF TODAY ARE IMPOSTURE PALESTINIANS. AND THERE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN COMMUNITIES OF JEWS IN ISRAEL EVEN AFTER THE ROMAN EXPULSION. THERE HAS NEVER BEEN AN ARAB PALESTIAN GOVERNMENT IN ISRAEL EVER. BUT THERE HAVE BEEN JEWISH KINGS AND PROPHETS THAT LIVED IN THE LAND THAT MASSES OF JEWS HAVE RETURNED TO. SO WHAT IF HAMAS HAS BEEN ELECTED. ISRAEL WILL WIN, WIN

Congratulations Gideon Levy on proving that there remains in Israel at least one human being capable of empathy and compassion. And no, not a word in there about suicide bombing..just bewilderment that Israel -of all countries in the world - believes the path to peace is prejudice, brutality and dehumanization of an occupied people. Israel's achievement in forging a modern democratic state in less than 60 years cannot but be blighted by its parallel elevation to the unenviable position of 'pariah state of the western world'.

Gideon, did the economic circumstances you complain of exist in 1990, or before the start of the first intifada? Can these circumstances be the byproduct of Palestinians simply acting against their own interests by engaging in terrorism? Do the Palestinians have any self-responsibility?

and make equal nonsense.. From Haaretz today: The U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern Affairs, C. David Welch, will visit Palestine and the Israeli Authority over the weekend, in the first visit of a high-ranking American envoy since Hamas won the Israeli parliamentary elections last month. (Israel and Palestine substituted for each other in the article...) As the late great Abba Ebban would say: Not everyone`s fluent in nonsense.

Les, I,m G-d. and I'm telling you to get yourself a good doctor

You DO NOT know me, I DO NOT know you...even tho you live in the same country as I...I would not have the time of day for you... ...you need a little diversity training to learn how to get along with us minorities in this great country of Canada... ...your clearly in need of some tolerance towards minorities.... (btw: ``Is this some fantasy you wank to`` #323..thats disgusting...Homophobic too? Did you learn this from yr Fundy friends?...diversity training is sorely needed...Jews and Gays are in Toronto to stay)

From Haaretz article: "The exhibit examines the relationship between the state and the citizens," said exhibit director Judit Molnar. "It shows how Palestinians were first deprived of their basic rights, and over the years of their possessions, freedom, human dignity and, finally, their lives." "Palestinian" substituted for "Jew" in the article.

When General Eitan thought that Palestinians sould be kept in bottles like drugged cockroaches it further added to the whole picture and it is not a pretty one in the least. Hitler (Netanyahu's pre-occupation) did not hate the Jews. He just thought of them as vermin or (his favorite) bacilli. At best they were untermentchen. Even if you do not plan on extrminating them at the least they deserve to be starved even further, perhaps finding out (a research project) what the minimum caloric intake is required to keep them barely alive. There appears to be a prevailing leitmotif from the first days of colonization to these very days. Olmert is the epitomy of the grey, visionless political aparatchik surrounded by likeminded functionaries. And you never know of what such beaurocrats are capable to come up with.

He said it again.. ``I said long ago that Palestinian young men could beat Israeli young men of a comparable age in hand to hand fighting with no weapons involved. Palestinans are generally more fit and agile and fearles`` ` And from an `adult` man... Ha Ha Ha ha Ha ha ha Ha,,mmmffgghhhhh... PRICELESS

Go to Mecca! Here is a Peace Plan: Why don't the Saudi's let the so-called Palestinians come live with them? They can afford to share their wealth. Perhaps the Saudi's could give each so-called Paestinian $100,000 to begin with. Then all that live in Saudi Arabia could equally share the profits from the oil revenue from then on! G-d gave a small potion of this big planet to his chosen people FOREVER. This was all decided by G-d, not by man. Man has no power to change this. Of course the disobedient Israelites were temporarily removed from the land for a while due to their sins. The Word of the L-RD: And the L-RD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward: For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed FOREVER.

Let them get money from Arab states. The palestinians did it to themselves. They didnt accept a state offered over decades. They prefer to kills Jews than feed their families (not all, but the vocal ones). Voting for Hamas which calls for murdering Jews is the final nail in the call for separation. Give the PA/Palestinians nothing beyond humanitarian help, afterall as Jews we strive to do good deeds, unlike the terrorists. The quicker the separation the better. Cut the electricity, stop all contact until they are ready for peace, which is not coming anytime soon. Do not appease evil any longer.

Jews and Israelis do not hate the Palestinians! Worse. They disdain and disrespect them. Ahad Ha'am following a visit to Palestine wrote in 1893 that the Zinosist colonists "behave towards the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, tresspass without justification, beat them shamefully without sufficient cause and then boast about it" (quoted in Righteous Victims). When in 1956 military commanders told the O.C Central Command Col. Y.Shadmi that the farmers of Kafr Kassem who were in the fields could not know of an impending closure imposed on Arab villages just before the Sinai campaign was launched his answer was "Allah Yirchamu" -God shall have mercy on them! 56 civilians were mowed down as they returned from work! The daily shameful treatment of Palestinian civilians at checkpoints is a matter of record.

disagree. The one thing I like about him is he comes at you straight. He is honest. His heart is in the right place.He knows the pain that the jews have had and he wants to protect his beloved Israel. I admire that. I see the bigger picture and how we are relative to the rest of the world.To ignore it is narrow.But some people cannot trust the rest of the world after what Israel has been through. I am not one of those people. Nevertheless I do respect Meirs honesty and pragmatism. Meir doesnt ridicule people that dont agree with him and is not arrogant.He ideas are based on the strictest of defence of Israel.With that we are not that far apart.

"`hunky muscular throbbing palestinian boys would beat Jewish wimpy boys of the same age ,wrestling,if the Jewish wimps had no guns``" That's what you said. Is this some fantasy you wank to? I said long ago that Palestinian young men could beat Israeli young men of a comparable age in hand to hand fighting with no weapons involved. Palestinans are generally more fit and agile and fearless. And this is what I still believe. No sexual component, unlike someone else I know.

Just when I think you have reformed you regress. That is the true nature of a Troglodyte. If you read my posts and ate your Spinach like I asked you to, you would have known that based on Land laws that are in existence throughout the known universe the Arabs have no rights in Judea and Samaria. But how could a follower of BG the plegarizer know any better.If you are going to insult anyone have your facts straight and know the law. Your ignorance of both is telling. It is very common for people with low intelligence to lash out when confronted by reality but it is also common to assign other causes for that condition but being a lowly scientist I would not know the cure I therefore suggest seeking professional help.

When the Zionist movement embarked on settling Palestine it was as unilateral an endeavor as the Zionist leadership intended it to be- totally oblivious to the facts on the ground and as if the Palestinians did not exist or did not matter. They insisted on pure Jewish work force while Palestinian peasants were disenfrenchised and forced to move to the cities to find work. This set the tone for the future. The Jewish leadership never cared about what happens on the 'otherside' unless the Palestinians attacked Jewish settlers and enterprises. There never has been any keen interest to talk to the Palestinians and reach an accomodation because at the core the ultimate goal has been to displace the Palestinians and settle the whole land west of the Jordan. Jews and Israelis never truly hated the Palestinians! Worse. They have ignored them and treated them with utter disdain and disrespect.

Am I to assume that you are abandoning Taba? If that is the case I might reconsider Danite.

Meir,lets all be honest,if jews had a problem with the Romans they should have taken it up with the Romans.It isn't right to take it up with the people now living in the area 2000 years later.Paletsinians didn't cause the jews trouble 2000 years ago.Apologise,and give the land back.

Toda Raba veh slicha al "ha dibour" Lehit!

To think that 3000 years of Jewsih civilisation has produced some one like makesme think of "systems collapse".Do you not understand that things would not remain in statis for 2000 years between the time of Rome and the return? You dont get that point? That another people has lived there now for millenia? Who cannot just be moved out,the Palestinians have every right to live where they are.We need a two state solution for Jews like you to crawl out of your cave and smell the air of reality.You are a Troglydite.

At this point their is nothing to do Pablo.Israel should have negotiated with Abbas before the election, the govt chose not to which was an act of gross folly.The Palestinians had their reasons for voting in Hamas but that too has consequences.Both peoples have made very bad choices.You might as well ask Hamas not to keep putting the right wing in power in israel.Whats done is done Pablo.Israel cannot give money to a hamas govt that will surely use some of it for their military gangs.Another war is coming and Israel cannot arm Hamas.We are all back to square one here Pablo.We will have to watch this stupidity grind on and on and on and on while we wait and wait and wait,for them to pummel each other other in a gelatenous mass who will have no choice but to get real.Regards

I think Israelhas no choice but to cut the money off.It is obvious Hamas will divert some of the money to their gangs.Not even Hamas expects Israel to give it money,now that would be a joke!! Regards The Palestinains made their choice of Hamas and will have deal with the results.Israelis will choose Kadima and they will have to deal with results.It is however intresting to see the primitve reductionism here.How the situation has reverted to a 1948 situation again.Incredible how the "cave" is sopresent in the back of the minds ofso many.I guess some people find it easier todealwith dungeons and dragons than with reality and life.

I LIKE PEOPLE TO BE STRAIGHT FORWARD. I KNOW WHAT YOU WANT. YOU SAY, YES ARAFAT WAS A CROOK AND THE PA WAS CORRUPT BUT THE JEWS TOOK MY LAND. I RESPECT WHAT YOU SAY. I DON'T AGREE AT ALL THAT THE JEWS STOLE YOUR LAND BUT I UNDERSTAND YOU. AND THAT IS WHY I KNOW THAT ANY RETREAT OF LAND WILL NOT BE SUFFICIENT TO YOU. AND THAT IS ANOTHER REASON WHY ARABS SHOULD LEAVE THE JEWISH LAND OF ISRAEL. I BELEIVE THE JEWS HAVE RETURNED TO ISRAEL AFTER BEING PUT IN EXILE BY THE ROMANS. WE HAVE SURVIVED THE EXILE AND RETURNED. OUR DREAM OF RETURN IS YOUR NIGHTMARE. YOU DO NOT RESPECT THAT, YOU HATE THAT. WELL, I AM HONEST TOO.

Lats not forget the little problem of Arafats connivance with Hamas suicide bombing during the negotiations.Barak warned arafat over and over again that he would not negotiate in those circumstances.Arafat thought he could play the carrot and stick with Barak and lost.Then those sorry assed losers ran after Barak saying come back come back we came so close.How pathetic is pathetic already? Regards

This is what passes for leadership in Israel.These are the people that Israelis will vote to form the new govt,this will complete the nexus of stupidity with Hamas as both peoples implode back to 1948.I guess some people feel safer inside primitvness and reductionsim.Have a good time and send me a postcard.

Howdy al; Assuming that you don't want to actually kill the cat outright and be done with it, the first thing to try is some food and sweet-talk like "here, kitty-kitty" and a lot of patience. If that fails, then you need the proper equipment like heavy gloves, ear plugs, a net, a bag, and a muzzle. With respect to Hamas, Israel has already tried the first approach, and now we're down to the second method. Don't worry--the international community won't let the Palestinian people go hungry, we are mainly concerned about our financial aid winding up in the coffers of a terrorist organization.

Now the Clinton parameters are okay for you? I thought clinton was a stooge of the zionists who tried to help Barak foist occupation by other means on the Arafat also a zionist stooge.I thought you hated the whole Oslo camp david thing.I guess now that you think you can blame Israel for its failure with confidence all of sudden Clinton is #1?You guys amaze me.In 1948 you had the partition lines , you lost those so you demanded Israel return to them in 49.Then you had the 67 borders you lost those and now demand Israel goes back to them.You had Taba and the clinton parameters you lost those and now wnat them back.Tell me what part of yes dont you understand?Do you guys all have clocks set on "miss the boat"Dont you see the absurdities you go for?

SOMEWHERE IN THE TORAH, THERE MUST BE A PROABITION AGAINST BEING A NERD. A NERD IS A PERSON THAT JUST NOT A VERY WITH IT PERSON. YOU ARE JUST NOT WITH IT IF YOU CAN NOT FEEL THE PAIN OF YOUR OWN FAMILY AND LACK SELF RESPECT. A JEWISH NERD SEEKS TO EMULATE A LEMMING. JUST WAITING TO KILL HIMSELF FOR OTHER ETHNICS SEEKING THEIR 'LOVE'. THE FACT THAT THERE IS 1.4 BILLION MUSLIMS IN THE WORLD WITH INCREDIBLE WEATH. AND THESE RICH MUSLIMS DO NOT CARE ABOUT THESE 'HUNGRY PALESTINIONS'. THE MUSLIM GOAL IS THE DESTRUCTION OF ISRAEL. 1 OUT OF EVERY 4 JEWS IN ISRAEL LIVES BELOW THE POVERTY LINE. 1 OUT OF EVERY 4 JEWISH ELDERLY IN ISRAEL IS BELOW THE POVERTY LINE AND ABUSED. THE DISABLED HAVE IT HARD IN ISRAEL. MOST JEWS IN ISRAEL ARE NOT RICH AND DO NOT OWN A BUSSINESS. LETS NOT PLAY GAMES AND CONTINUE TO WORRY ABOUT THE PLIGHT OF OUR ENEMIES. THE POWER HUNGRY ARAB DICTATORS WILL ALWAYS HAVE A LARGE POOR CLASS AND KEEP THEM UNEDUCATED AND RECRUIT THEM TO HATE JEWS. WE CAN'T STOP IT

Some observations: On $2.00 a day it would seem a lot of people can afford computers. I guess computers have not yet been outlawed? Instead of buying that computer why don't you help your brothers? Now the main points. You elected Hamas by a large margin so how much symphathy can they get. You got aid with Abbas and no aid with Hamas. The lesson is simple live without terror and prosper or with terror and wither. Yes Hamas is Evil but they are your EVIL. You elected them now deal with them.

"First Israel does everything it can do to campaign for Hamas. Now Israel does everything it can do to make sure Hamas stays in office and gains power." - Pablo B. Weird isn't it? "Pals didn`t even give Hamas a majority of votes, but Israel starts off their new diplomacy by punishing the majority of Pals who didn`t vote for Hamas in the first place." - Pablo I guess you and I were the only ones to investigate the demographics of the vote. Fatah had idiotically pretended it was still a one party nation and ran multiple candidates for the same positions. That split enough Fatah votes as to give Hamas a majority. Now the governments of Israel and the US seem determined to ensure that Hamas will win bigger next time. "Meanwhile Israel uses up all of it`s diplomatic and economic tools before Hamas even does anything." - Pablo Seems to me that the wise thing to do would be wait and see, and hope Hamas did something to justify taking action.

Would that not be a kick in the ass if all the annual $22 million payments were stopped by Hamas. Watch the sparks fly. Splendid.

Looks like you missed the message and the boat. Is that the reason you are not posting?

I find it offensive that you don't comment on the legal status but only say that it is unimportant. These other semites have 22 states and a different religion and social outlook. Israel was in the works in the 1920's with the Legue of Nations giving the British a mandate to "Create a Jewish Homeland in Palestine" So cut that nonsense that you are spouting and get a grip on reality. I am probably more from that area than you are so forgive me if I think that your statement on behalf of the Arabs is not allowed to stand.

I guess I missed that one..that pretty well sums it up..Thanks!

You live a dxecent life, right ? You can travel wherever you want and don't worry about what to eat tomorrow. Mmmhhh, OK,.....

What happened to you being an Indian oops an Aboriginal Person. Shnabi.

Very nice poem and I really enjoyed it. After spending considerable time in London and environs I had the impression that the British did not have a sence of humour. You have disproved that. Congrats.

Well done Gideon, it?s about time people woke up and realise that the more you try and repress a people the more they will fight back. There are thousand's of examples for instance the conflict in Ireland went on for hundreds of years until the pompous English realised that they weren't the empire that they used to be and what about the battles that the Irgun and other similar groups waged against the English before the state of Israel was formed. It's about time that we try and find a humane solution to this problem beginning with the Arabs and Druse living amongst us.

You have your conspirancy theory -fine. Maybe it's useful to remind you that the creation of the State of Israel was supported by the whole world community through what some year later . became the UN Since then, for some reasons, Israel has never recognized the UN, even (as you) seen them as 'enemies of Israel' !! Not recognizing any resolutions signed by 150+ nations of the entire planet etc. So Israel is the new 'herrenfolk' or...?

Now Ronnie these would be Identity theft because it is your real name and you would be upset for a reason. But don't worry this is demo only and i have no intention of using that name again. I would not want to be confused with your babbling about NON positions that are beyond anyones comprehension past a grade 6 education. Should you bug me about that Bg name again then i may decide it is time to use your name and post some silly post myself. So drop it and lets get on with life.

Howdy un-educated; We get all kinds of posts here. Some from whom did not get past the sixth grade and some for whom English is a second or third language. The only thing that is important is that the rest of us idiots can figure out what is being said. Shoot, I make spelling and grammatical mistakes all the time, but I try to keep it at a low roar. At least you got published today which is better than I did. All three of my previously submitted posts today went into the trash can at the Haaretz censor editor's desk. I'm just about ready to give up on this topic because I'm not allowed to get in a word even edge-wise.

I DARE YOU TO REVELA YOU NAME. IN FACT I DOUBLE DARE YOU. BUT I KNOEW THAT IT IS NOT YOU jEROME SEGAL PLEGARIZER BECAUSE IF IT WAS YOU: YOU WOULD NOT BE SO BOLD. UNDER YOUR OWN NAME YOU WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO PUT 3 WORDS TOGETHER SO THAT THEY WOULD MAKE SENSE, tra la la...must run.

I forget the details, it has been a long time, but at one point Muhammad's tribe was put under sanctions intended to starve them out of their faith. Great suffering, people, children, starving to death. It was a great early crisis in the faith. Seems to me that at some point decent people could not stand it anymore and put an end to the sanctions. I think it might be wise to consider this before pursuing a course of action intended to drastically worsen the situation of the Palestinian people. The effect will probably be to drive them towards Hamas instead of turning them against Hamas.

I would have thought that at your age you learned something. but I guess not.Hamas, Jihad,Aqsa and other Muslims learned that they are destined to be masters in life and even in death will get 72 Virgins in the service of Allah. The crushing backwardness and poverty in most of the Arab world is easy prey to the Oil sheiks. It works - the masses will riot in a pub is opened, honour killings, subjugating women, cartoons but NEVER for peace or democracy-WHY? You Oh Wise one knows their agenda-What is it ? Revenge? For What? The agenda is as plain as the nose on your face. Listen and Watch. Hamas is Jihad is Aqsa.Hamas may moderate on paper only and even if they change the charter all it will be is Muhammads Hudna. WAKE UP- You have no clue as to what is going on.You KILL THE RATS not coddle them.

what exactly did i say that you found so condescending? did you read all of my posts today? you dont know anything about me, and youre totally ignorant of what kind of life I lead and what I deal with on a day to day basis. dont you think there is some arrogance and self-righteousness involved in your totally uninformed assumptions and judgements of me? how dare you!!

June 2005:Three workers, two Palestinian and one Chinese, were killed and five other Palestinian workers were injured Tuesday when a Qassam rocket slammed into a greenhouse in the Gush Katif settlement of Ganai Tal. July 2005:The air strikes follow the death of Dana Gelkovitch, 22, who was killed in a Qassam rocket attack Thursday afternoon on Netiv Ha?asara, north of Gaza?s Erez crossing. Terrorists had fired four rockets at the community September 2005:Hamas officially claimed responsibility for the kidnapping and murder of Sasson Nuriel, 55, from Pisgat Ze?ev, whose body was found Monday southwest of Ramallah etc etc etc

What I'm trying to say, is that you're so 'out in the blue' if you - beside the apalling arabic suicide attacks - don't recognize that Israel execute exterminations as well. Targetted killings, sometimes by unmanned flying vehicles. Take care

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?c=JPArticle&cid=1136361020700&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Ronnie.. you will be surprise, and yes, we will go after all the money stolen by the late Arafat and will go after all the money taken by his wife and all the money stolen by all the crooks that formed the PLO, PA and Fatah... and we will also go after all the properties stolen and take over by Jews in Israel. The Jews are our best model and they have shown us the way to get what was stolen. We have excellent models, the Jewish Agency,and the American Jewish Congress.

First Israel does everything it can do to campaign for Hamas. Now Israel does everything it can do to make sure Hamas stays in office and gains power. Pals didn't even give Hamas a majority of votes, but Israel starts off their new diplomacy by punishing the majority of Pals who didn't vote for Hamas in the first place. I wish I could run for office with help like that! Israel and all the extreemists here on this board aren't happy with all the power they have already given Hamas, they must keep giving them more. Meanwhile Israel uses up all of it's diplomatic and economic tools before Hamas even does anything. What will Israel have left to punish Hamas with if they actually DO something once they are comfortably in power? Can Isreal really affort to ratchet up their diet plan until death rates really do reach third-world proportions? Will a "Greater Israel" edition of "Save The Children" telethon do anything except entrench Hamas deeper into power?

How's Palm Beach today ?Too dusty ?

the `man`s` not to be taken seriously ,previous posts of his here included my personal favourite.. `hunky muscular throbbing palestinian boys would beat Jewish wimpy boys of the same age ,wrestling,if the Jewish wimps had no guns``

I just received my laugh for the day,shylock reffered to my prejudices.a black pot perhaps?

the same as majority of germans did support murder of the jews majority of pals is criminal and should be punished. germans were not punished enough for murders.

The so called 'honor killings' are an anomaly in any democratic society. I even denounce using the term 'honor killings' - it has much more to do with power. Where's the honor in killing someone to 'restore' your family name ? I agree with you that this is awful, but still hope it won't be used as a weapon in the 'East-West war'. Because it simply won't work. The second biggest Muslim city in Europe is in Germany. The second biggest religion in Sweden is Islam etc. 'Honor killings' are based on ignorance, power-struggles among MEN and has nothing to do with religion - the same goes for female genital mutilation

How do you know what it's policies will be.? The policies of Hamas are clear. Are you saying the 3rd intifada will be due to Hamas policy.?

OK, so all this - according to you - adds up to that Israel, the youngest nation in the world established with the goodwill of the Western world, are entitled to spit on and disregard whatever resolutions and international agreed conventions and treaties ?! Do you really want to become a member of the larger international community, or is it enough to have the US`as a lover ?

Is this a prelude to a Palestinian "final solution"?

Blabla bla. Even if you find someone to say you're right - so what ?! Is it really relevant 'who came first' or if the land was called 'Palestine' or something else ?! Come on, shape up ! You're both there - make the best of it !

what seems also very probable, since internet is open for everybody. You want to FOOL us!!!! Sorry, you cannot FOOL ME!

The average daily income of a Gazan is $2.00 per day. Israel's self proclaimed comedian Mr. Weissglas believes that it is funny to starve a nation that is already on the brink of distaster because of policies he helps mold. Aside from the racist and moral implication of his statement, the joke is just not funny regardles of which way you look at it.

of course you don`t have any Palestinian friend, nor an Arab. No chance, Gaza boy. Europe knows(as you live in UK, you should know this). They just don`t dare.

What nonesense you are talking there,' millions of innocents Palestinians'. Almost 70% of the Palestinians voted for a party that calls for KILLING MR GIDEON LEVY!!! HIS RELATIVES, HIS FRIENDS AND EVERYBODY HE KNOWS IN ISRAEL. YOU GOT THAT.READ IT AGAIN? YES AGAIN. You must be living in kookooland.

shlomo ben ami is an idiot, norman filkenstein is a criminal. israel officially accepted clinton parameters, but of course, they are out now. pals will never get anyting closer. ben ami and other criminals like him will never rule israel un the future, pals lost as usual, they are born loosers.

Arabs have just taken control of six(6) American ports!!!How stupid is that?? They're blowing up the world ,yet the USA gives them free access to bring boatloads of fanatical Muslims to the shores of the Land of the Free and the incredibly stupid and naive. I give up.Self destruction,is what it is.

You know what, 'Bouhadana' ? I know of no project from the Israeli side to support humanitarian needs in the 'Palestinian Territories'. Isareli occupying authorities impose more and more restrictions on Palestinians, but need the international organisations to keep all Palestinians alive. Hope you can sleep well.

i can understand your closeness to the murderers of hamas, they would like to finish work of your great leader.

I don't care if Zionists leaders or Jews persey--much less anyone else--make funny jokes about the sad plight of Palestinians--including jokes about hunger. While I don't think that's particularly funny, it's not something that leaves me worried in the slightest. We know certain people have sick humor sometimes. We have all heard starving Ethiopian jokes or references to them. The joke is not the issue. What is the issue, the person making the jokes IS A PERSON IN POWER WHO HAS NOT ONLY JOKED ABOUT THESE MATTERS BUT MADE THEM INTO A REALITY!! This sadistic brute--who seems to crack jokes at Palesitnian sufferring--is the issue. This madman, who seems to think starving Palestinian people is a joking matter, IS THE ISSUE!! We joke around as well and surely have our share of sick jokesters, but WE DIDN'T CAUSE JEWISH POVERTY OR THE HOLOCAUST but the Jews can't say that about the plight of Palesitnians!!

for you, surely yes. But everybody being on war etc thinks the same of his victimizer. There are many other-forgotten-wars. Let`s stay on topic. yes, I agree at the moment it is very similar to other times.

any other nation would exterminate you decades ego. we didn't. you are criminal nation and should be transferred.

Meaning that they won't be able to aford M-16 any more and will have to get away with less precise kalashnikovs.

...hatred and fear are the faces of a same coin. You hatred,you fear,you run. you love your land,you fight...you die...and get a state...the STATE OF ISRAEL(22 arab states vs...)

It was the forerunner to the Jerusalem Post, and was a jewish newspaper. Everything that had Palestine in it's name was jewish or british. Every division of land, map, referred to jewish and arab land/population. There was never any people called palestinians, never any nation state with that name.Golda's question was correct and should be re-visited.

Haaretz apparently lost a message of mine, here is is re-submitted "So dig, honey, dig." OK I dug Here are the results taken from official Palestinian and Egyptian sites. Palestinian link is http://www.moh.gov.ps/index.asp?deptid=3&pranchid=39&action=details&serial=791 (I found statistics only for 2004). Egyption link is http://www.sis.gov.eg/En/Publications/343/344/397/398.htm (I found statistics only for 2001/2002) Palestinian infant mortality 20.5 per 1,000 live births. Egyptian IMR 26,4 per 1000. Palestinian life expectancy male - 71.1, female 74.1 Egyptian male - 65.3, female - 67.4 Compare Palestinian statistics to that of a place where people really starve: Kenya Life expectancy at birth 47.99 male - 47.87, female - 47.09

this says it all

1949 armistice lines are beyond the partition lines because Israel somehow managed to win when she was attacked. The arabs keep attacking and losing ground, and each time we call the lost ground 'disputed'. I don't see what the dispute is, you attack and lose, deal with it, move on. You want to keep trying...and clearly you do, go for it, but stop crying after each successive loss.

Vickery..I really wish you wouldn't include Canada as your country when you make your naive statements. It embarrasses me..big time..Why don't you just say"David James Vickery ..Iran or Saudi Arabia"?

I attribute the lull in Hamas initiated attacks to the targeted killing of their operatives, and increased vigilance by the IDF not to the so-called Hudna.When and if Hamas renounces their intention to destroy the Jewish State and they decide to renounce terrorism against us then we can consider a truce. Until that happens we are at war with them.

maybe you can run a cource for us uneducated to improve our grammar,then we can be your, oops, never your equal but at least a faithfull servant.to have been so blessed with your grammar and then to be able to be so humble.a true gift.

On the other hand..how would you like it if a bunch of martyr seeking arabs disturbed your home and sleep..by blowing up your kids,wife and house. Very easy to spout off from the safety of Canada,isn't it?

Levy writes: "The man who was involved up to his neck in the Annex Research affair - the shell company for channeling huge contributions to the prime minister..." Oh! So in addition to being a joker, Weissglas is also a crook. One wonders if a propensity for corruption must not always be included in the resumes of all Israeli officials applying for a government job.

I would like to see the likes of yourself wondering if every day you got on a bus would it be your last, if every night your child went to a cafe would it be her last, if every day you went to the grocery store would it be your last. Maybe only then you would lose your attitude and relate to the position Israelis are in. Israelis are human beings with the same qualities as you

Its disputed because res 242 calls for pulling back to defenciable borders. This means the border is not decided yet so part of it is disputed still. Also west bank was won from Jordan and the Pals gave up their right over it by not telling Jordan that is it rightfully theirs.

It is funny when you think that palestinians will surrender under hunger or will become more moderate, YOU are simply increasing anger and hatred in pals. the sooner you understand that the better for you and for us. Hamas is evil, but this is the very wrong way of facing it, I get the impression that israel is not interested at all in facing Hamas.

Palestinian Arabs living in the Israeli controlled West Bank and Gaza Strip have fared better in terms of life expectancy, adjusted real income, and educational attainment than many fellow Arabs, according to the United Nations. The U.N.'s 2005 Human Development Report, ranks the Arabs of what it calls Occupied Palestinian Territories at 102 out of 177 countries. Higher than Algerians (103), Syrians (106), Egyptians (119), Moroccans (124) and Yemeni (151). Based on data for 2003 ? a period of frequent Israeli counter-terrorism responses to the "al-Aqsa intifada" the Arabs of the West Bank and Gaza Strip also were not far behind Tunisians (89) and Jordanians (90). Of course, prior to the Intifada, there was a far more pronounced difference in favour of the Territories than in these figures. with per-capita GNP expanding tenfold between 1968 and 1991 from $165 to $1,715 (compared with Jordan's $1,050, Egypt's $600, Turkey's $1,630, and Tunisia's $1,440). By 1999, Palestinian per-capita income was nearly double Syria's, more than four times Yemen's, and 10 percent higher than Jordan's (one of the better off Arab states). Only the oil-rich Gulf states and Lebanon were more affluent. Under Israeli rule, the Palestinians also made vast progress in social welfare. Perhaps most significantly, mortality rates in the West Bank and Gaza fell by more than two-thirds between 1970 and 1990, while life expectancy rose from 48 years in 1967 to 72 in 2000 (compared with an average of 68 years for all the countries of the Middle East and North Africa). Israeli medical programs reduced the infant-mortality rate of 60 per 1,000 live births in 1968 to 15 per 1,000 in 2000 (in Iraq the rate is 64, in Egypt 40, in Jordan 23, in Syria 22). The more recent figures are from the 2005 Human Development Report. The earlier figures are from Prof. Efraim Karsh. Head Mediterranean Studies Programme, Kings College, University of London

Looks like the fake BGs missed your message.

Boris, You are right this is a sick policy . How can they think about harming people like this. Where's the world is their humanity? Dutch

How do you qualify, for instance, that "Palestinians are poor" ? And those who might be, how come it has nothing to do with Israel's unlawful occupation of their country ? True, the level of corruption within the palestinian authorities is, or has been, extreme. But even you, Juliusz, realize that the main restraint to the Palestinian economy is of course the Israeli Occupation regime. If you don't realize that, I propose you put 200 spann i manaden and get a satellite account and keep updated on the news. God natt !

One might have the freedom of exprsession but with the current religious and political senitivity.... it is a good idea that folks on both sides use self restraint in these areas for the safety and well being of everyone.let us all avoid getting caught up in the political baiting that is designed to incite mas riots. having said that I fully believe that everyone should have the freedom to express Ideas and concerns as long as it is responsibly done.

David, Jewish people like you earn my respect. the opposit goes to kim up the wall.

I am a big supporter of Israel and its people, but I think we need more Gideon Levys to save face. Israel can't establish itself as a democratic and open society if it looses the moral supremacy in its plight for survival. Relativism is too comfortable, comparing with arab standards too... As long as Palestinians are locked inside a huge concentration camp, Israel is tainted with shame, because it deceives the noble principles that it fought for

It is funny how the Israelis seem to sue people for denying the holocaust while they are sitting themselves laughing about starving and oppressing the Palestinians. I would say this slowly but surely a palestinian holocaust. History will tell.

"Palestinian resistance is totally legitamte. Even the UN, which Israel always cites as one of the sources for its legitamacy, recognized the rights of the people under occupation to resist occupation. If Israel comes to the Palestinian peopl with tanks and M-16s, do not expect the Palestinians to come to Israel carrying flowers and roses" Mazen -- Excellent point! Dutch

OK, let's start with agreeing that the agency in question is UNRWA. Maybe you're not aware of it, but they have ambitious programs both in Gaza, Jordan and Lebanon employing refugee camp citizens to upgrade their own environment.

I believe the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is 'a bit' more complex than the win-lose situation (the so called victories) that lindsey was talking about. I doubt it is in the interest of Israeli citizens to pursue such a tactic of war. Yes it is true that Hamas is propagating evil anti Israeli slogans. But does this really justify Israel in taking the same heartless line? I am not blaming Israel for all of the Palestinian problems. But there is a very clear link between their suffering and Israeli terror casualties. I think Israel should use the fact this is an assymetric conflict to its favour and try to work toward a solution that will lead towards a better future for its citizens. I understand the need for pragmatism, but I completely disagree with this decision to starve the citizens and empower the Hamas!!! leaders.

Idealism is beautiful, and the mark of those who believe that the future inavitably will be better than the past; and that the way to the future is through good deads. Nothing is easier for anyone with the least moral fiber than to empathize with small children. Unfortunately, those very same children have absolutely no say in their future. If their leaders want to brainwash them to grow up to be terrorists, who is to stop them? If their leaders want to steal aid money given to the children who is to stop them? Who is to stop the parents, the teachers, the "thyroid" specialist, the political leaders, the militry leaders, from using the children, their future, for their own nefarious purposes? This is the bitter pill of reality. Since the Jewish people have moral standards that go back millenia, and since they are required to do mitzvotim, I say feed the children, but boycott the parents. The Torah requires us to be kind to the poor, but prohibits us from commiting suicide.

you are euoropean;no?

Does anyone else see the irony?I can imagine the German high command making the same joke about jews confined to the Warsaw ghetto.Jews have you gone mad? Rise up against your leaders.This is outrageous.

Howdy David; For your information, humiliation is not a life-threatening condition whereas starvation is. The entire Islamic world has been humiliated by the West ever since the Battle of Lepanto in 1571. The Palestinians are certainly human beings, but they aren't civilized yet and as such must be kept out of civilized areas. There are many historical precidents for this including the Great Wall of China and Hadrian's Wall in Great Britain which both severed their purpose well in keeping the barbarians out for centuries until they could mellow out a little.

if they can make so many things heroic so why Gaza no clean?...(50%unemployed)

Amazing to see so many people outside of the area discussing this issue. Anyway, maybe you have to take into consideration that Israel (a nation more or less 'constructed' by the guilty world community some 60 years ago)is just precisely that - a creation. Listen, they haven't even decided on a constitution ! And in an odd way, that makes sense. To pretend that 'Jews owned this land since 1000s of years back' is simply ignorant. You're all Semites, folks, and you've always been around ! Don't make a fuss around it.

I don't care if Zionists leaders or Jews persey--much less anyone else--make funny jokes about the sad plight of Palestinians--including jokes about hunger. While I don't think that's particularly funny, it's not something that leaves me worried in the slightest. We know certain people have sick humor sometimes. We have all heard starving Ethiopian jokes or references to them. The joke is not the issue. What is the issue, the person making the jokes IS A PERSON IN POWER WHO HAS NOT ONLY JOKED ABOUT THESE MATTERS BUT MADE THEM INTO A REALITY!! This sadistic brute--who seems to crack jokes at Palesitnian sufferring--is the issue. This madman, who seems to think starving Palestinian people is a joking matter, IS THE ISSUE!! We joke around as well and surely have our share of sick jokesters, but WE DIDN'T CAUSE JEWISH POVERTY OR THE HOLOCAUST but the Jews can't say that about the plight of Palesitnians!!

Dahlan, Rajoub, Erekat won't suffer any decline in their standards of living. Don't worry.

Compare Palestinian statistics to that of a place where people really starve: Kenya Life expectancy at birth 47.99 male - 47.87, female - 47.09

And you know what ? Israel is so pissed off that 'democracy' didn't work their way in Palestine, they're prepared to cut off most money flows to the PA. But then they sit in our knee - they depend heavily on international organisations to keep 'Palestinians alive'

Hamas has maintained a hudna for a year now. There have been absolutely ZERO attacks committed against Israel by Hamas, even though the IDF continues to invade Palestinian villages and cities on a regular basis. How would you like it if you were awakened from your peaceful sleep by a sound bomb, and then have your home invaded by a swarm of violent soldiers turning everything upside- down? It would be sure to ahake you up, and maybe alter your outlook.

I get Gideon's point, but gags are gags, and honestly I have heard much worse . I do think however that the funds they are withholding will strenthen Hamas support. You take 100,000 people's wages and stop them feeding their families and spending that money in the occupied territories and all your doing is increasing the hatred and disgust of Israels'. Israel (for PR reasons) say they won't stop humanitarean funds, but what on earth do they think will be the result if you starve another 100,000 people and stop them spending their money in pal society? This move will cause mass pal suffering (Which incendetally is illegal), which will make Hamas stronger in the pal public, will increase hatred and the amount of people prepared to go strap a bomb to themselves.Israel is in a tuff position at times, but spreading misery will simply make Israel look like a bunch of heartless bullying thugs. If nothing else, take the $50 million p/m and rebuild the Palestinan schools and hosptials etc.

Back in the 1990s, Bibi and Clinton agreed to an end of US welfare for Israel, except for the military aid that runs about $3 billion a year (tied to the Egyptian and Jordan peace deals). This year, 2006, is the year that the other aid ends. This is also a year where Israel may decide on borders or at least the general principles of where its borders should be. Bearing the full costs will hopefully make for a decision. Despite its foreign policy pronouncements, I hope the Legislative Council will succeed in bringing some sense of law and order to the few Palestinian controlled areas, especially Gaza. This should be their first priority. Ultimately, Hamas will have to abandon its one-state philosophy. I hope it's sooner than later.

I guess you were not closely involved in the negotiations in 2000. And maybe that was for the best.....

"So dig, honey, dig." OK I dug Here are the results taken from the official Palestinian and Egyptian sites. Palestinian link is http://www.moh.gov.ps/index.asp?deptid=3&pranchid=39&action=details&serial=791 (I found statistics for 2004). Egyption link is http://www.sis.gov.eg/En/Publications/343/344/397/398.htm (I found statistics only for 2001/2002) Palestinian infant mortality 20.5 per 1,000 live births. Egyptian IMR 26,4 per 1000. Palestinian life expectancy male - 71.1, female 74.1 Egyptian male - 65.3, female - 67.4

Howdy me; The winner is he who can cause the maximum amount of chaos in the Palestinian Territories. The main contenders for the title are Hamas, Fatah, Israel, the U.S., and the E.U. The later three will use financial strangulation of the PA, but will continue to provide humanitarian assistance to the Palestinian people via other channels. Hamas and Fatah hate each other's guts and in typical Arab fashion resolve their their disputes with more direct means like violence. The cracks have already started to appear. There have already been several firefights between Hamas and Fatah gunmen in the Gaza Strip and there have been angry demonstrations by armed Palestinian policemen over the fact that they haven't been paid for two months. If the Palestinians are inclined to fight amongst themselves, it is in Israel's best interests to encourage that because the Palestinians will not be able to effectively attack her nor to present a united front. "Divide and conquer" is the maxim.

The Gaza Strip is the most densed populated area in the world. You're still not worried ??

Israel has repeatedly proud itself of being 'the only democracy in the Middle East'. Well, I'm hesitant, because with 'being a democracy' comes to engage in and abide by international agreements, such as the UN charter and resolutions, which still waits to be proved. Of course it's 'honey' for Israel to have close business ties with the EU - one of the world's fastest growing markets outside China, but when they find out that most of the agricultural products in fact comes from occupied territory - then you're in deep shit. Because this is of course countrary to all claims of being a 'democratic state' - looks more like an Apartheid regime, colonization in the 3rd Millenium - imagine !

tbuMany of the more thick headed Jews do not understand the depth of Palestinian toughness and willingness to carry on.These Jewish dumbells and liars continue to preach their false doctrine of victory and imposing solutions on the Palestinians.I hope they read you post and understand that the only thing for Israel to do is to negotiate a viable two state solution.Of course the situation in Palestine is that of a failed state, but not matter really.An agreement in principle with Abbas will allow Israel to act unilateraly in internationaly appoved ways to extricate itself from this morass.You are right El Birawi and I for one believe you.There is no military solution to this issue. Your people will not be defeated.Your people though not very wise or smart sometimes are tough as nails and willing to go the distance.One day we will be free of each other El Birawi, and hopfully in the far future we can learn to be free with each other.There is no military solution either way.

And, this man calls himself a jew. has he never read the torah? he who laughs first will surely laugh last. And, Condoleeza Rice is no friend of Israel or the Jewish people.

it is elected.? Whereas the Hamas constitution is clear. Talk about one eyed prejudice!!

the touble with history is that it skews the truth,my history book tells me colonist custer was a hero and geronimo was a savage.am i to believe that at face value or do i find the truth.and thats tought in schools, what a sham you see.custer is a hero to some and a theif and murderer to others.

Let us not forget that at the time of Taba Hamas was having suicide bombing field days.Barak repeatedly warned Arafat that he would not negotiate under fire and that Arafat had better do something quick.But Arafat at this time was in thick with Hamas using them as a pressure point on Israel.It backfired and Barak did what he threatened he would do.He walked out on Taba and righty so, and once again the sorry asses Palestinians were left in the dust of history with their d...s flapping in the wind.In typical fashion after they blew it they ran after Barak saying "we came so close come back"I wonder if the Palestinians think they can foist their nonsense on everybody all the time.Remember Barak beat Netanyahu hands down because the Israelis felt Bibi was wasting a good chance for peace and elected Barak on the most radical platform ever.Well here is thr fruit of that failure.The rank and gross stupidity shown in this conflict ranks in history.Now the Israeli right is completing the dumbell scenario by throwing Abbas in the trash can the way the Palestians threw Barak and Clinton there.Will this ever end?

Were it not for Israelis' sense of morals and ethics, the economic war Dov proposes could easily degenerate itto a Biafra-like situation. My point is that in living up to its obligations, Israel should not ask that taxpayers of other countries bear the burden of this Israeli government decision. Israel should rather rely on its own resources and on donations from those private individuals who support the decision.

Absolutely 'relative' reality is ok too but we have to start somewhere. This situation in Israel is interwined with much irrationality on both sides and even here you can hear the words that go round and round of myopia on both sides. We have to try to undo what goes for reality (I would start with fundamentalism,thats a good one or good old racism,thats another)as we try and democratize (the best we can that is) the area. And as we are really using the words of democracy as something of a benchmark here on Haaretz rather than bombs,I would think democracy would be a place to start. Haaretz mirrors western papers as its standard and quite frankly while Israel is most definately not an apartheid state those papers are not anti semitic either.Its all to do with per-cep-tion. My reality is one of yes relative democracy based on western values but there are many Jews and Arabs who see themselves as the keeper of the keys exclusively.The Israel supreme court has a better handle on it

God have mercy on those that joke on the hunger of Israeli Jews and non Jews, Palestinians, Indians, South Americans, Haitians, to sum it up on ANY hungry starving human being in our planet for it's time we all learn that..... "There by the grace of God go I"

I agree wholeheartdly with your declaration that telling the truth is a principle that distinguishes democracy from any other political system, so far know to man. At the same time, another principle of that important system is not to inherently hinder or injure the existence of the people involved. It does not allow mass suicide, nor does it preclude from telling the truth the whole truth but nothing but the truth: and here is the relativity (Thank You Mr. Einstein). You do not want Haaretz to be another Guardian, who unashmedly call Israel an Apartheid with reasons that have nothing to do with the truth on the ground. Yes, to intellectualise your assertion:democracy needs the truth so that justice can be rendered, which in turn will save the system out of any trouble. Except the neighbourhood is playing with a "relative" reality that is part of their metaphysical existence. The truth has to be said with caution to the context in which it saw the day. Each one of us has different truth, thus it is only fair to balance a view , distancing oneself from IDEOLOGY.

Gaby, Truth is a rare coomodity and it takes a lot of time and trouble to dig it up. So dig, honey, dig. I try to research my statements thoroughly before I post them. Positive side effect: I am learning a lot of new things. And I had to correct a lot of my previous opinions. Again: the issue is not to be be pro or anti either side. The issue is to find the true facts and to form a solid opinion on what's really best for all parties to the conflict and for Israel in particular. Oppression and "eternal war" are not the right answers.

While you made a valiant effort, your poem still needs more work. I suggest adding a verse about spinach (my favorite food). Also, if you can incorporate the following terms, with rhyme if possible, "non-thinkers," and "shallow" and "illogical," and sprinkle in some "narrow-minded," and "dumbya." Finally, I suggest you end the poem with my slogan: "Not to worry about Hamas Just negotiate with Abbas"

You really have the nerve to say that the Palestinians "were offered a state" - a state stealen from them and occupied ever since ?! Wake up...

My disturbing discovery that Israel did indeed reject the Clinton Parameters leading up to the failed Taba discusions, comes from Shlomo Ben Ami?.Ibrahim#173. I just read with interest the discussion between Ben-Ami and Finkelstein. I am convinced that you should read it again so as to better understand it. Below I quote from the discussion relating to the taba talks and the reasons for their failure. SHLOMO BEN-AMI: We tried to fine tune them in Taba. We made some progress. But eventually, because of a number of reasons, among them the political qualitative time that was missing, both for the Americans and for the Israelis, and because of the consideration of Arafat that he really believed that he can get a better deal. I think that he will not get a better deal. The conditions are not there. I don't see that happening in the foreseeable future. So he lost the opportunity of having a deal that is imperfect, inevitably imperfect, will always be imperfect, because this is the way peace processes are done all over, and he sent his nation into the wilderness of war and back in the time machine to the core of the conflict. This is what we face today. On the finish at Taba: We could not go any longer. So, to say that we ? now the whole thing collapsed because we put a helicopter at the disposal of the Palestinians to go and see if we can rubricate some basic peace parameters on the basis of our negotiations, that they didn't want it, Arafat didn't want it. Regarding Israels non acceptance of the Clinton parameters. Again you need to re-examine the text of the discussion. Finkelstein maintains the Israel presented a 10 page dossier detailing reasons for non acceptance of Clinton parameters. Shlomo Ben-Ami responds: You see, as somebody who was a part of those who prepared the Israeli document that was submitted to President Clinton, I can say that the bulk of the document was an expression of our, the comparison that we made between our initial positions and what was reflected in the Clinton parameters. It was not a series of reservations. It was basically a mention of the difference, the way that we have gone. This was an attempt to impress the President, more than an attempt to say that these are reservations, sine qua nons. There were no real reservations in our document, whereas in the Palestinian document, there were plenty of them, with the refugees, with the Haram al-Sharif, with what have you. I mean, it was full of reservations from beginning to end. Ibrahim. You are presenting confused conclusions to people who can read and write quite well. I suggest you read again and reappraise. Regards Ezreal.

For the record Lindsey, I would like to see the likes of yourself humiliated to the degree that Palestinians are on a daily basis. Maybe only then you will lose your attitude of assumed superiority and begin to relate to the suffering of others. Palestinians are human beings with the same qualities as you, my dear.

it's happening as we speak,silent intention is as deadly as spoken intention.if you cant see the obvious for the trees,your wood stove needs filling.bush mans proverb.

the reason america doesnt know or do anything about it, is because it would be political suicide.cnn,fox new-york times,washington post would never have a balanced view,and never discussed in an open forum.as long as it is politcaly advantageous to support zionism it will prevail.its not about who is suffering it is about the vote and what the press tells us to think and who to root for.when aipac hijacked congress it meant that there would never be a humane gesture towards the middle east.just look at the mess.its become a world war, judaism against islam,hagar versus sara.are we not told hagar the lesser of the people will always be against the chosen.so pick a side, there is no middle ground to be found,only force against force.who controls the press controls the war.

Fritz, I do not have data (and I do not have time to dig for it today). But from what I know, the Palestinians are NOT HUNGRY. The quality of life in the PA, before they started the aggression against Israel, was higher than in 3 neighbouring Arab countries: Jordan, Syria, and Egypt. Now, the quality of life is still higher than in Syria. The vital statistics of the Palestinian population (longevity, infant mortality etc.) is still better than that in most Arab countries, including the above 3 neighbouring countries.

sorry jef but take it from me-gideon is far from being the 'true' representative of the Jewish people...thank God!!

I am so happy people like Mr.Levy still exist in Israel. As that nation(and indeed much of the west) push further to the xenophopic right I offer this food for thought, the Palestinian territorys are third world and suffer from third world problems like corruption,violence,and poor leadership. Holding them to first world standards is just not fair.

i did not laugh so loud and good for a long time when i heard this great remark of Weisglas. I do not like him but this one was great. The palestinians are for long the most ungrateful victims that exist in human history. They kicked out the europeans after some great cartoons were published in the world. When Muslims cannot laugh at their own religion they have a problem. Jews and christians are quite capable of laughing at jesus or moses why not at mohammed? he was human after all or not? g-d said you cannot make a picture of mohammed? palestinians have for years been forgotten by their muslim brothers who do not give them citizenship or decent jobs or even any financial aid so why does gideon the jewish selfhater always blame israel for the misfortune of the palestinians? i think because he has spend too much time with them. let the palestinians finally get their own house in order and take responsability for their own mistakes. a good diet will help them with that

Kim: Palestinians do not blow-up homes, civilian cars, ambulances, hospitals, and schools with F-16a, Apaches, and latest american made missiles either....

As a jew (american) who also served in the IDF, i couldn't agree with you more. Israel has applied an ultra-racist, draconian and brutal occupation regime that rivals any regime of its kind through modern history. Israel has become a white supremacist society, treating others with brutality and considering less than human. Every word of yours is backed up by facts on the ground.

Gaby, let's assume Ziegler and other UN staff became or were biased against Israel right from the outset or as a consequence of their work. This would be really bad but does not change the FACT that there IS a crisis which may deteriorate further. Such a crisis affects the majority of the population who are not terrorists and this is unethical collective punishment, unworthy of a civilized country like Israel and not in line with the principles of Judaism either.

The terrorist organization in government has says the cutting of funds doesn't scare them. Mr Levy will be glad to know it, I guess.

To all the Ben Gurions we've loved before There were 16 and maybe more Some of them had views, some of them were jews some were rich and some were poor To all the Ben Gurions we've loved before inc the scientist that LEFT for more Some they read the news some even came in twos the BG's that went before Have you heard the one about the attack of the Ben Gurions before we heard the news but we werent quite sure we looked over the hill it looked like there were a mill.. the millionth Ben Gurion and then some more

AND DO THE WEALTHY ARABS ALSO TELL JOKES ABOUT THE POOR ARABS? OR DO WE BELEIVE THAT ALL JEWS ARE RICH? TO GIDEON LEVY, THE JEWS ARE TO BLAME FOR ALMOST EVERYTHING. HIS STANDARDS FOR JEWS ARE EXTREMELY HIGH AND YET, THE STANDARDS FOR ARABS DO NOT EXIST.

Gideon has gone overboard in his love for the poor victims who have elected Hamas. The joke that he complains about is not as funny as the joke his Hamas suicide homicide pals like to play

while weissglas used a wrong analogy gideon is straight wrong and offers nothing usefull.

Shlomo, You mean discrimination, deprivation of rights, expulsion, isolation, starvation etc. of minorities. This is Germany's past and Israel's presence but certainly not Europe's future. WE HAVE LEARNT OUR LESSON. I wish you would, too.

No need for you to be embarressed,just need a history lesson. There has never been such a thing as a Palestianian state. There were a few Arabs living on the land in '48, but they were given a homeland. It was named Jordan,but the King had to throw out what was left after he massacred many thousands because they tried to overthrow his throne. They just need to go home to their country of origin...small problem...their country of origin doesn't want them either,so they go on massive propaganda campaign to get Isreal to give them some land and how oppressed they are...Please...

nor did they want to destroy Germany.

But I read Guardian and Independent from the UK. They are 100 percent anti-Israel and pro-Islamist. I also heard some things about German media, but since I do not remember where, I will not argue. I also know that in France Enderline is still in power after defaming Israel with his Mohamed al-dura fake reporting.

Thank you Gideon for your article. Finally somebody who is, I hope, a true representative of the Jewish people and what the Jewish people think. It is almost election time in Israel. Let the Gideon's of Israel stand up and get a majority.

Don't complain when somebody gets hurt. Crocodile tears!

sounds like the owner of a texas ranch.

Here is on how Kofi Anan celebrated Palestine day next to a map without Israel on it. http://www.danielpipes.org/article/3197

exhilirating then to be shot at with little effect. i expect islamic jihad and hamas to work hand in hand because it makes sense. hamas needs european funds so it would need to shield its bloodthirsty nature although it would find it impossible.it would make sense for it to operate through islamic jihad.

You have to be blind and incapacitated to write an article that sounds like Palestinian and Muslim propaganda, and not mention why Israel has had to take such measures, if Palestinians by a huge margin chose Hamas to rule them, and if you are not brain dead, you underestand the charter that calls for eliminating Israel, for all purposes, that is an open declaration of war, and as such Israel should act. When and if Hamas, as the chosen leader of the Palestinias, decides that it wants to deal with Israel in ways to find real peace, and openly declares that Israel is a reality, it is the state of the Jews, not to be destroyed, and ceases all terror, then the Palestinian people and it"s goverment can and will be considered not as enemies AND IN A STATE OF WAR, but as neighbors to be considered. Until then, the Palestinians have openly declared war on Israel and that is a reality

What do you think Palestinians will get now that was not offered by Israel/Clinton at Camp David? It's always best to think rationally, Ibrahim, instead of engaging in propaganda and/or wishful thinking.

his father was. what difference does that make?both clinton(who is not jewish) and dennis ross(who is jewish)thought that barak made an excellent offer. it is not the facts that are important john its your prejudices.

we had seen great nations during history govern the world. when justice prevails they will continue to rule and reign. when imjustice prevails and the rulers start joking at the suffering of millions of people then these nations deteriorate from within.

The previous section described how many of the Commission's thematic experts single out Israel for unfair treatment. None is more unrelenting than Jean Ziegler, a former Swiss radical politician. ... Finally, UN Watch alerted the media to the need for the UN to condemn Ziegler's demonization of Israelis. The impact was immediate. On the same day, 7 July, the UN Watch press release was cited by a reporter at the daily press conference of Annan's spokesman in New York. Consequently, the spokesman soon issued a statement denouncing Ziegler for his remarks. The next day the spokesman for Arbour did the same, followed later by an even stronger statement by Arbour herself in a letter to UN Watch.28 Canada then sent Ziegler a formal complaint letter.29 Finally, some seventy members of the U.S. Congress wrote to Annan and the Commission Chair seeking Ziegler's resignation.

http://www.unwatch.org/site/apps/nl/content2.asp?c=bdKKISNqEmG&b=1314451&ct=1766305 search for section:2. The UN Disowns Jean Ziegler's Anti-Semitism Excerpts: In the summer of 2005, Ziegler depicted Israel in Nazi terms. He told a crowd of pro-Palestinian demonstrators in Geneva that the Gaza Strip was "an immense concentration camp," Since being appointed rapporteur in 2000, Ziegler has devoted much of his time to accusing Israel of starving Palestinians, and labeling Israel's leaders as "state terrorists."22 Ziegler was nominated for the post by Fidel Castro and Muammar Kadhafi, and his history of close ties to tyrants is well known. In 2002, Ziegler was awarded -- together with Holocaust denier Roger Garaudy -- the Muammar Kadhafi Human Rights Prize, an award Ziegler himself helped establish in 1989.

Arafats wifes money...

Gaby, German media are all 100% pro-Israeli. They only report very sparsely, mostly not at all, on IDF raids and attacks, they shun the humanitarian crisis in the OPT etc. This is how I came to use the internet to get the real picture. As I said on another occasion: those who support Israel's present policy are false friends. Israel needs to be criticised strongly and pressed to change course to achieve peace; peace being the only chance for the nation's short term prosperity and long term survival. Today Israel is militarily invincible; in the long run the defence budget will deplete all resources and as soon as the US support stops this will be the beginning of the end. All this should not come to happen.

do the jews not remember what happened to them ...... was that funny .... I wonder what the world would think if the jews were the ones being brought to hunger again.... this is taistless humor only a jew could enjoy

You may exiles us, but we will return, you may jail us, but we will be free, you may destroy out homes and farms, but we will rebuild again, you may set up thoudands of checkpoints but we will bypass it. You may rob us of our money, but we will will get it back. You may steal and rob and take over the property of hundreds of thousands, but we will one day get it back. You may starve us, but we will be fit and will not die. You may have dealts with some corrupt, incompetent and no so intelligent and smart leadership but will will rebuild. Israel and Zionist can up with the most innovotive and cruel behavior of any nation or people, but that will never, ever break out spirit and determination to achieve justice. Of all the people of the world, Jews should know that injustice will Never prevail. Someone shoould tell these silent Jewish intellectuals who made Jewish suffering a big business.

It IS democracies aim to first REASON with people even if it IS your enemies and when that fails then do the physical. It is with that I say that the media have to keep the doors open.Its not antisemetic for Haaretz to show another side of the problem. It wasnt anti American for CNN to keep in line with Saddam Hussein enough to report from Baghdad while the bombs were coming down. Openness is a big part of democracy (not always because sometimes other measures have to be taken to defend it) Haaretz displays that and is loyal to the truth,the whole truth much more so than any arab newspaper and probably any Jewish newspaper. In that way it holds democracy to be stronger than loyalty to the flag.Most of the time it goes hand in hand but only sometimes it cant.

The "Pals" celebrate the murder of Israelis by "Pal" terrorists and also the massacres in the US and Europe. Do you like this joke more?

Instead of quoting Bill Clinton (slick Willy as he's known and who has a wife who happens who happens to be a Senator from NY State) - perhaps you should refer to your own leaders. My disturbing discovery that Israel did indeed reject the Clinton Parameters leading up to the failed Taba discusions, comes from Shlomo Ben Ami. Please check out his debate on Democracy Now . Com with Norman Finklesteing. Ben Ami says he would have rejected Camp David if he were Palestinian and that Israel couldn't accept the Clinton Parameters... I know, it is very troublesom for future peace prospects if Israel remains belligerent on these points.

...we just don`t want innocent people to suffer." Ask their leaders to stop corrupton. 700 million dollars have desapeared from PA money last month only. "we are not anti-semitic !" let me laugh. Europe comes back to its terrible past.

If true,a disgusting display of arrogance. Remember that the plight of the palestinians is not in some tactless joke,but by the endless arrogance of the Palestinian ruling classes,corruption,mindless violence and the need to keep the Palestinian population in poverty to fight their unjust terror war against Israel. The so called Arab nation and this includes all Islamic countries,want Israel's distruction. So please stop blaming Israel for the plight of the Palestinians,they have only themselves to blame,you are only helping Israel's enemies. The Islamic world is on the verge of exploding,Mr Levy your type of article will bring that moment earlier.

"Facts, data and numbers published by the World Bank and the UN aid organisations seem to be more objective." Hi Fritz, There was time when I thought like that too. I started digging and found out that Israeli and American data is considerably more objective than the one that comes from the Palestinian side and the UN. The reason supposedly "neutral" European media outlets, NGOs and UN are so pro-palestinian is that there are so many more Muslims and Arabs who support the Palestinian cause unconditionally than Jews. As a result, it is much easier to be anti-Israel than pro-Israel. Being anti-Israel makes journalists and people who work for you safer. You get access to some interesting islamists and terrorists who otherwise would be out of reach. Also your business ties in the muslim and Arab world would improve. So, it is pure convinience, desire to do and to keep a good job (not anti-semitism) that drive media outlets (including Haaretz), states and UN to have anti-Israel tilt.

Jane, In early 2005 Hamas killed a total of 29 Israelis. Since the truce they declared afterwards they have observed it and stopped the violence. As a result the IDF has since then not encountered and killed any Hamas members but mostly Al-Aksa and Jihad fighters. Yet Israqel boycotts Hamas to avoid the need of negotiations and enable unilateral annexions.

If Hamas is now in power, it is because a wide majority of "Pals" voted for the terrorist organization.

The Jews are a civilized people, indeed. What do you think about the Muslims blowing themselves up on Israeli school buses and Indonesia, in Europe, and behading people? And what do you think of the people who say that the Jews massively murdered in the Holocaust by your nazi buddies deserved it?

but different. I also think Our Ben Gurion said hes away today

Shlomo, unfortunately, or - from your point of view, fortunately - MOST pals lack the money to buy the food. And then: people with opinions deviating from yours are still peolple and not wolves. We are not anti-semitic, we just don't want innocent people to suffer.

"The recommendation for a "diet," along with the edicts Israel is poised to impose on the Palestinian people, should have aroused a hue and cry among Israeli society." But, apparently, it didn't. So, except for a relatively few enlightened and compassionate Jews who post here, I have to believe that Israeli society in general, including the Zionist droolers on this site, would laugh right along with Weissglas.

Thanks for the tip, Gaby. But to get a true picture I prefer other sources than US/Israeli sponsored websites because they are partial, to say the least. Facts, data and numbers published by the World Bank and the UN aid organisations seem to be more objective.

The Islamic Jihad has always honored the ceacefire. Only when Israel killed Palestinian civilians did IJ respond with revenge. I think the same formula will hold now. If Israel continues the brutality in the occupied WB and Jerusalem, then IJ will respond accordingly. What do you expect?

You say that we are not giving HAMAS a chance to change its ways. That's ridiculous.

"On our present course, Israel will cease to exist and G-d will scatter us once more around the world." Inshallah!

Another tragic failure on Israel's part to learn the lessons of the past.

He's afraid to write under his real name. Well, I'll continue publishing under my real name, Ben Gurion of Sde Boker, no matter who tries to copy me. I have nothing to fear from revealing my true identity. Thanks for your support.

?What was the sin of the 4,000 lucky people from Gaza whom Israel still allowed to work within its borders, and to whom it is now closing the gates?? Those Arabs should be glad that Israel gave them jobs, while their authorities were stealing money. If Israel closes them the gates, who?s to blame but the ?Pal? terror government?

And as usually all the wolves from Europe and Canada are crying at the misery of their palestinian brothers.

Although the Palestinians have made their statement of attention regarding Israel clear as crystal by electing Hamas to power with a mandate to destroy the Jewish State, I do not advocate "extermination" of Palestinian civilians. The terrorist gang Hamas on the other hand does murder innocent civilians whenever they have the chance.I do advocate going to war against the PA unless all terrorist attack attempts are halted and Hamas revokes it's pledge to destroy Israel. Extermination is Hamas's style not Israel's.

Robert Malley ,who is jewish,was clinton's special assistant at camp david.Malley has spoken and written about the fallacy of the so called "offer"at camp david.search robert malley

Surely if Hamas is Jihad and you know it therefore they all know it so whats the point? The target is not the 10 people they kill.Its the fear they create in the minds of the Israeli public that they terrorize. Without taking responsibility there is no point. It forces the people to change their views. This is terrorism. Its not simply random killing.They are rallying around a viewpoint and using terror to change the oppositions viewpoint. Maybe they do use each other occasionally on specific situations. It is very much mirrored by politics itself. The Palestinians will say that Likud,Labour and Kadima are all the same. It suits a block way of thinking.

"which I should add, were largely rejected by Israel and largey accepted by Arafat et al." Really! Which history book you reading from? "You are a great man," Arafat said. "The hell I am," Clinton said he responded. "I'm a colossal failure, and you made me one." Clinton said he told Arafat that by turning down the best peace deal he was ever going to get, the one offered by Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak and brokered by Clinton, the Palestinian leader was only guaranteeing the election of the hawkish Ariel Sharon. He described Arafat as an aging leader who relishes his own sense of victimhood and seems incapable of making a final peace deal. "He could only get to step five, and he needed to get to step 10," the former president said. Clinton also revealed that, contrary to most conventional wisdom after Camp David ended on July 25, 2000, the key issue that torpedoed the talks in their final stages was not the division of East Jerusalem between Palestinians and Israelis, but the Palestinian demand for a "right of return" of refugees to Israel proper. On Jerusalem, he said, the two sides were down to dickering over final language on who would get sovereignty over which part of the Western Wall. But Arafat continued to demand that large numbers of Palestinian refugees, mainly from the 1967 and 1948 wars, be allowed to return, numbers that Clinton said both of them knew were unacceptable to the Israelis. Ibrahim. Don't cook the books. That was Arafat's speciality! Regards Ezreal

Did he ever meet a terrorist that he did not like? Want to negotiate with? If the so called palestinian's wanted freedom or an economic recovery all they have to do is swear off violence and stop the rockets. No deal to be had. Hamas was popularly elected and wants it war to continue. The arabs did not need Olmert to make a joke just look at the headlines from the cartoons. But, Gideon Levy these are your friends and neighbors.

Disputed territory ? That is not the issue. The issue is that it is occupied territory - or are you denying that ? By the same token, you would be rejecting the Green Line : before the 1949 Armistice, Israel took far more than UN Resolution 181 had assigned to a Jewish state. Quite a sizable piece of Israel, situated to the West of the Green Line, would also be "disputed territory", then. Or doesn't it work both ways ?

Why does Israel need hungry and angry people at the border? Ether appease them - and kill yourself in the process, or make them go away - and solve the problem for good.

see http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=3&x_outlet=167&x_article=855 www.pmw.org.il memritv.org

"If Weissglas tells the joke to his friend Condoleezza Rice, she would surely laugh too"? Gideon the striking Levy, you don't call that journalism, don't you? I call it cheap propaganda, disappointed once again. Shavoa tov, you clown!

Making false statements does not change the facts. Kindly consult the UN reports made by Bertini and Jean Ziegler on the humanitarian situation in the OPT. Poverty in Israel admittedly is high but it is a different subject. You may ask one of the 18 families that take 32% of the nation's revenue to spend more on charity or use more of the annual 1.5 billion $ private donations from US Jewry to be used against Israeli poverty.