An Israeli without hyphens

prime minister of Rome, maybe. She will be a great counterweight ot an ex- nazi pope. But jerusalem does not need a woman who taught her grandchildren to murder for kicks!

TERRIFIC ARTICLE!!! Shulamit Aloni should be premier. For peace, justice and prosperity of the State.

I am an English solicitor and for over a year, I have been trying with a pilot project in Israel to show Israeli lawyers generally it is possible to be more accessible, more user-friendly and more affordable to the Israeli public. I should be grateful if you would let me have the e-mail address of Shulamit Aloni, so that I may seek her opinion in relation to my project, particularly after reading her response on AB Yehoshua's speech in America.

Actually I, as a Canadian Jew (we don't use hyphens) feel cheated--it should be Canadian Israeli since I am descended as all non-converted Jews are from the patriarch Jacob(ISRAEL)--in that TRIBAL sense I am an Israeli even though I'm not a citizen of Israel, though I have a perpetual "Right to Return"...since non-descendants of Jacob (ISRAEL) who are residents in Israel may demand equal "citizen" rights there like they might apply for in any other democratic country,they might get those citizenship rights eventually--HOWEVER they will never be UN-HYPHENATED ISRAELIS even then--that priviledge can only go logically to a descendant of Jacob or to one who marries such a descendant of Jacob's...in this logical fashion their MUST ALWAYS be ISRAELI-ARABS or ISRAELI-DRUZE or ISRAELI-whatever, except that the ONLY un-hyphenated "ISRAELIS" have to be decscended from ISRAEL (Jacob) ...so in that sense whether an Israel "citizen" or not,the ONLY un-hyphenated ISRAELIS on the planet are Jews.

Perhaps you missed reading of the fact that the female in question is no harmless old grandmother, but the grandmother of a convicted murderer who killed an innocent taxi-driver,Derek roth, just for thrills. Given Shula's vicious, ugly attacks on anyone she ever disagreed with, from fellow party- members to political opponents, this comes as no surprise to any of her victims. The rotten apple fell from a rotten tree.

Those on the left hate to admit how violent their kids are. Aloni's grandson, the murderer, probably also thinks anyone who disagrees with him is a "fascist" The knee jerk parroting of antiquated slogans and insults is as much a product of Aloni's teachings and rantings as is the mindless, meaningless violence

Those on the left hate to admit how violent their kids are. Aloni's grandson, the murderer, probably also thinks anyone who disagrees with him is a "fascist" The knee jerk parroting of antiquated slogans and insults is as much a product of Aloni's teachings and rantings as is the mindless, meaningless violence

typically ridiculous non religious comments. while patting herself on the back for living in a place where we pray for rain in the right season and when we need it and celebrate the holidays and learn the bible in its original form, she goes on to say that she is an atheist!!!! so exactly to whom do atheists pray??!! what is so good about reading the bible in its original language and even at all - i mean who wrote it anyway??!! and what on earth are these middle aged practices of observing weird inexplicable holidays??!! how pathetic! the only things you can praise yourself with are ones you hate with a passion and probably don't even practice (yeh you study the bible and pray for rain - right!!)

OK by us if you nominate her for president of Holland or even Queen. Anything to be rid of her from here

Sorry but no self respecting jew can identify with at least one thing:- her grandson the murderer. Unfortunatly this is symptomatic of the family and its values, which the woman in question certainly shaped. Preaching amorality has a price- And an innocent taxi- driver paid with his life for ms Aloni's balony

The Derek Roth case is a matter of public record even if it was hushed up for a few years by a gag order. Sorry but it is you who is either stubbornly shutting your eyes or simply does not know the facts about the "lady" and her brats.

the taxi driver murdered by shulamit Aloni's grandson stands as an accusation: You have no right to preach anything about morality or tolerance to anyone. Did you murder and also inherit?

If only there were more Shulamits! I am not an Israeli, nor am I too familiar w/ the Israeli political landscape, but as far this article goes, what this woman is saying is so good in every respect, that I consider anyone like her a token of hope & promise. I'm always surprised when someone like that speaks on an issue (here on ethnicity, & specifically on the Jewish one), & there is nothing you can think of adding to it. There is so much confusion on this issue out there. She's saying it all better than anyone else. Pity that those who unlike her claim that they are believers & not atheists (/agnostics) seldom posses as much insight & clarity on this issue.

If only there were more Shulamits! I am not an Israeli, nor am I too familiar w/ the Israeli political landscape, but as far this article goes, what this woman is saying is so good in every respect, that I consider anyone like her a token of hope & promise. I'm always surprised when someone like that speaks on an issue (here on ethnicity, & specifically on the Jewish one), & there is nothing you can think of adding to it. There is so much confusion on this issue out there. She's saying it all better than anyone else. Pity that those who unlike her claim that they are believers & not atheists (/agnostics) seldom posses as much insight & clarity on this issue.

I read the article and many of the talkbacks and although I've never cared for Aloni I was starting to think that she made some sense and that some of her attackers were going overboard as claimed by her defenders. But then I googled her and read some of what she has written in the international left wing press over the last few years (e.g., 3/7/03 in CounterPunch) and I realized that we are dealing here with someone who routinely accuses Israel and virtually all of its leaders as well as its soldiers and citizens of being racist monsters if not genocidal maniacs because it has chosen to defend itself instead of succumbing to terror. She also uses the word racist as virtually synonymous with religious or zionist or even Israeli. If Israel's international enemies need any "Jewish" support, Aloni has given them enough ammunition to last for years. I have no doubt that if an international tribunal were ever set up to "try" Israeli leaders for war crimes, her writings will be exhibit A

Repeating falsehoods do not make truth.Better be sure before throwing mud to someone you dont like,or dont agree with.

Oustanding article. Kol hakavod lach.

Meir, Your response to my "live and let live" statement was certainly a "stretch", thinking I might condone genocide as part of my outlook on life. Aside from holocaust survivors and their descendants, I doubt if there is anyone who feels more sickened by those atrocities than I! Roosevelt in refusing to allow the ship's passengers to disembark was just the beginning of the failures of the US Government and the Cuban Government's "change of heart" was almost as disgusting. Meir, I've often wondered in a "what if": Say when the Palestinian Country is formed, how many Jews would stay in their homes and communities if they were promised equal rights as the Arabs, I imagine there are Arabs & Jews who have had good relationships? The ones who uproot/steal trees and set fires to abandoned mosques would likely not want to live in New Palestine. You seem to be an enlightened and learned man, what do you think? Jim A

Shulamit Aloni is correct and praiseworthy in all she says in her article, and yet she dodges the key question posed by Yehoshua, I believe, and which we each answer for ourselves. Is there a moral and/or Jewish superiority for any Jew to live in Israel rather than in the USA? Is living in Israel a superior form of self-fulfillment for the Jew? The answer will depend on many variables, but Yehoshua seems to answer with a yes Aloni replies that we in Israel have many moral failings, including many not found among non-Israeli Jewish communities. I offer that there is a Jewish self-fulfillment possible only through living in Israel. jesse

While not the Vatican per se, even our time honoured mitzvah decrees that jews must face towards jerusalem for prayer. our center and focus is there and we should be a light unto our scattered people and an inspiration for other nations of the world.

If mrs aloni had succeeded with her own kids, instead of having a grandchild in prison for random murder for kicks we might accept her as an advocate of tolerance. But her intolerance of others was accepted by her family. The poor taxi driver who paid with his life for what she teaches is the best comment on her unadulterated hate, masquerading as tolerance.

Just remember, it's Aloni's personal opinion on being Israeli. And having stated it, it's now history. Everyone has their "own" valid story to tell. "Picking a narrative out of history is like choosing a path through the woods. To decide on any one route between trees means abandoning all others, to tell one story is to leave all others untold." quote is from book "Yiddish Civilisation, the Rise and Fall of a Forgotten Nation" by Paul Kriwaczek.

I think we can live a moral life in Israel. I still have a card from my taxi driver in Israel. The man is a Bedoin Arab that was in the IDF. I asked him what he thought about the fence and the dissengagement and what he said was very insightful. He said let the Arabs of Gaza and the terrirtories kill themselves. He has no desire to have a "Palestine" and has respect for a Jewish government. There is a war going om in Israel and it is hard to stay calm. I have met other Arabs in Israel and we had laughs and drinks but there are many other Arabs that despice us as Jews and thank G-d the IDF is on guard. When I led the JDL in Canada I had many freinds in Habonoim and I had their cooperation on security issues in Toronto.

This was a fine, convincing piece -- but perhaps a bit simplistic. After all, Jewish identity is intimately tied to a conciousness of virtually eternal, hopeless exile. Well, what if the exile ends? According to some in this debate, then one either heads home or ceases to be a 'real' Jew. i'd be inclined to argue for just the opposite -- that Jews have been in exile for so long that their identity is dependent upon the status. Either way, it's an interesting topic. I don't think one can just set down a pat answer.

I don't beleive in live and let live. Maybe is I lived in Los Vegas I would think otherwise but my father was a surviver of the Holocaust and all my young adult life I have fought for justice to have Nazi War Criminals stripped of their rights to freedom like you and I enjoy. And I felt the same determination for justice when it comes to neo-nazis and PLO Jew haters. Live and let live at what cost?

i agree we should respect each other. i would not do anything that is offensive to another person. i would not eat pork in front of an observant jew, or an observant muslim. if aloni did this it is wrong because what was it suppoed to prove? however i would take issue with anyone who is racist. the fact that most germans did not want jews in europe did not make it correct. so if most israelis do not want arabs in their country the religous leaders should take a stand. if judiasm is not against racism what type of religion is that? btw i was brought up in habonin where we were taught not be be racist ans was promised that we could live a moral life in israel.

Shulamit - just to remind you and Yehushua you don't speak for me or most of the people that leave and the State of Israel. Remeber, you are left with only 5 seats in the Kneset. So, please don't speak on our behalf.

Kol ha --kavod Shulamit I agree with you on almost everything - I wish your common sense to be shared by as many Jews as possible; AB Yehoshua finds a roomful with engaged Israeli supporters (ideology+time not only money) and he tells them in other words 'you are not serious about your commitment to Judaism' I do not agree that you call yourself without hyphens - yes, you are an Israeli-atheistic-humanist with some obvious missing dimensions - and there are too many dimensions of our people and as you say, we all have to value and respect each other for what we are. I learned a lot from you seeing on TV while in Israel and I really enjoyed the article we are talking about.

As I didn't have time to read all the praises and attacks, perhaps I should remain silent, however being that I am don't believe in ANY god[just think of god watching the ovens of the germans and lightening strikes on religious buildings] and I found Aloni's article "right on", for my feelings about life: "Live and let live", "We all should share the same equal rights" and most of all "Empathy for our fellow persons" I, having many years and likely soon to die, can see "Aloni" is a very thoughtful person and ALL OF her "ATTACKERS" should respect her opinion even tho they may disagree! It appears to me the oft used "aggressive" response to an idea which we dislike is quite prevalent here: "hit & hit hard", "overpower", typical of New York area. Always, I get pleasure to read empathetic words concerning our relationship with others, even if we "CAN"T stand the person, respect their opinion as you would like it in reverse! Jim Anderson Las Vegas

alone is all sense and wisdom.

never listen to leftwingers.....they talk textbook and they are hypocrites, what they recommend on the national level they would never ever recommend on the private level or for their children. the older i get the more i detest them for the problems they cause

Given the unberable stupidity of most of the comments on this forum, please Haaretz just shut this damn talkback down. I mean, who cares what some shmuck in Kentucky thinks about Shulamit Aloni? Your paper is a sane voice in a degraded, violent land, enough of people calling humanist secularists self-hating Jews, enough of this rubbish. There is enough of it around already.

My main point is that people like Aloni are not tolerant of others that choose to be religoius or more nationalist. I have no problem with Jews that identify with the left. The issue is tolerance and respect. I grew up to observant and made my choice after high school to learn in a yeshiva, it opened my eyes to a world that I knew little about. At the same time I did see Jews that are observant and lack respect and tolerance for others. Those ones stick out like a sore thumb but they do not represent the majority. The same goes for the Neturia Karta that look chisidic and dance with the killers of Jews. They are imposters and do not represent observant Jews. Remember, Aloni and her followers would gather on Yom Kippur and have public pig barbecues and boast about it. I am glad that she and the ones she represents are out of power. This type of behavior does not happen in the Jewish community in Toronto.

Shulamit Aloni has dedicated her entire career, which has lasted more years than I have been alive, to the goal of opposing, eradicating, abolishing, annihilating, erasing, and rendering null and void the Jewish religion. For the last several years, she has been doing the same for the cause of Zionism. And now she is bragging about what an excellent Jew she is? I think I am going to throw up.

I had to take a tranquilizer in order to read Aloni's article because the very mention of her name evokes the rise in my blood pressure. The article did not impress me...as usual she has to let us know her views about how we are hurting the Palestinians but does she care about her own.NO. She is a perfect example of the type of people who are destroying Israel and a perfect example of the present government (which is a disgrace to say the least) Is there ever going to be and end to Peres? Has he never heard of the word RETIRE and does he not have any self esteem? People despise him and he does not get it. To conclude this is a perfect example of the inmates taking over the asylum. How can they be so wrong and not understand?

When she speaks about the Palestinians I can agree that that some Palestinians receive as a a resulto non-seurity considerations like humiliationnot directly related to security but sadism for sadism's sake is reprehensible. The right of any Jew tobe whatever kind of Jew he wants to be in the diapora is correct because there isno coercive power. Hoever that is also true, in the private sphere. However in the public sphere although it has been eroded in the last ten years or so athere should be more respect for traditional norms other wise we wil lose our integrety as a people

In post number 10 I said that I agree with 90% of Aloni wrote. well maybe it's a little less. I of course don't agree with her basic credo because she is an atheist and I am a believer. When she says that any Jew is free to come to Israel or remain in the diaspora she is right . Mashiach didn't come yet. When she says that anyone living in the diaspora has to be loyal to his state Well the raw deal that Pollard got doesn't leave any other option. Our connection to the diaspora is a religious and ethnic connection. Her distinction between 'peoplehood and nation by her definition is correct.The Jews in the diaspora Jews were full partners in bringing Jews from USSR and Ethiopia. The Jews of the diaspora preserve Jewish traditions by choice.Here we live a sovereign life as Jews speaking our own language.and the Jewish holidays vare national holidays. Even as an atheist sheisproud that the rythm of her life is determined by Shabbat and Jewish holidays.

This means they have no argument and they just want to fool the people with their propaganda. A jihad supporter calling the people for freedom fascists. This is an old trick already used in the Soviet Union by ?democrat? Stalin and his cronies.

thanks for your polite response. it is more people's behavoir that counts, not their religous beliefs. however when their behavoir becomes unacceptable, for example leiberman, who is likely secular, advocates violence and the expulsion of israeli citizens, then i have a problem. when so called religous people want to impose their beliefs on others i have a problem and i consider them in the same light irrespective of whether they are jewish, muslim or christian. my experience from with so called religous people is they are not tolerant of other peoples views or beliefs and they are extremely dangerous when they believe they know, rather than believe they know, the word of god or allah,(same guy/gal) if you just think that you understand the word of god then my appologies to comparing you to the taliban who claim they know the word of allah. the genius of the jews is ONE god, that means for everyone including gentiles. so called religous jews often drift from this basic JEWISH concept

I do not understand how you can think that Palesinians in the territories should have the same rights as Israeli minorities, such as the Druze. First, Israel and the Palestinians are at war, and no amount of discourse can mask this fact. Second, in no country do foreigners have the exact same rights as citizens do. It would be much more productive if people concentrated on de facto discrimination against those who are minorities within Israel proper, rather than extending rights to enemies who are neither entitled to them, nor necessarily grateful for them. Concentrate on securing the country, and on conditions within the country. We are not responsible for the mistakes of the Palestinians. It is their resposibility to make peace and to build a country.

Aloni is right about a Jew being whatever he wants to be, and American Jewries' relation to Israel. However, she can't resist the temptation to digress and denigrate the forces that protect Israel from the Arab "sea" surrounding it. Shulamit, try to control yourself and stick to your main topic.

What is there to say. Aloni has always analyzed situations in a straight no nonsense manner and this one is no exception.

Shula is trying to tell us that there is another way. That we don't have to go to "MASSADA" and commit collective suicide, as order by a contemporary Eleazar Ben Yair... Would they listen?

The facts do not support your statement. Most Jews do not identify with Aloni. Lets be honest, Aloni is anti religoius. This is not the case with most Jews. In Israel, about 80% of Jews lite shabbat candles and over 95% fast on Yom Kippur. Aloni and her kind and special pig barbacues on Yom Kippur and that kind of practice is now looked upon with disdain by most Jews. Also most Jews in Israel want the Arabs out and are proud of the IDF. In short, most Jews are for a Jewish State. For the first time in the Merezt Party, an orthodox women is one of their leaders. This marks a change. And finally, most 'secular' Jews indentify more with Yossi Beilin than Aloni. She is from the past and we are moving forward to the future. Show me a grain of evidence that anything that I write has anything do to with the cruel and backward Taliban.

If you are a real Jew, you need no one to explain to you what being a Jew means; if you need an explanation of what it means to be a real Jew, you are not one to begin with.

Why does the author feels guilty of living in her own country?

if aloni is basing her atheism on what she sees others do, that say they are religious, its not hard to understand her unbelief, because you can search till your exhausted trying to find the one true religion that follows (all) the teachings of the scriptures and you will not find it.they all pervert the truth to one degree or another.aloni-just stick to reading the scriptures and ignore the religious nuts and you will give up your atheism.

Lovely shades of grey. Do you ask the same question of the new Afghan or Iraqi governments? What do you make of the recent attempt in Malaysia to force circumcission on the 40% non-Muslim population?

Even though I agree with only parts of Ms Aloni's opinion on being Jewish here or there, she still makes more sense to me than almost any other Israeli politician. I voted for her in my first Israeli election as an olah hadasha and I would have a hard time not voting for her again even though I lean to the right these days. Bravo Shulamit. It's great to hear your voice and your sane take on a a difficult topic.

Should Israel give the same rights to its citizens and to the foreigners, who attack them? I cannot understand how the rights for Israelis are connected to the treatment to the pals. The pals should be recognized rights by their authorities, not by Israel. As for the ?harsh? treatment Israel gives to the pals, what can you do with a neighbor who just wants to murder and destroy you? It is not against human rights for Israel to defend its citizens from terror.

i enjoyed the article because of her stand on religion , and how freedom of choice must prevail in Irsalei society , (and israelis dont need american or anyone else to be told how jewish they need to be) however i did not see her words as an attack on the decency nor the legitimacy of TSAHAL. the destcruction or collective punishment of palestinians is a decision the political establishmenmt has to deal with. as thier record as a whole , i do disagree with mrs Aloni , i think she underestimated our foes. i do think though that some improvements are necessary as far as dealing with arabs/druze,or palestinians. as far as Tsahal as a whole , we owe them our praise.

Although talmudic judaism requires a person to be a humanist , it also requires a person to obey jewish dogmas . unfortunately what seems to be transpiring of today's judaism is a greater attachment to the latter (jewish dogma)then jewish as an humanism. ther are many historical reasons for that movement of judaism , one of them is the relentless persecussion jews have suffered and as a defense mechanism ,jewish tradition has given a great importance to jewsih dogmas. Shulamit though is correct in saying that coersion is definitely not a jewish way of life , we, if anything pride ourselves in freedom of choice.

"To sum up, everyone has the right to determine what kind of Jew he wants to be: religious, secular, Reform, Conservative, Orthodox, enlightened and humanist, or arrogant hater of the gentiles and the others." You say this, yet you spend all article bashing all those who concider themselves religious, and i bet you are very biased against ultra-orthodox Jews as well. Your hypocritical nonsense in nausiating. "We the Israelis must build a more moral society here in accordance with the values of which we boast unjustly. " We boast nothingg unjustly. We ARE the most moral country, but when surrounded by animals, sometimes you have to fight them. If Israel saw thingsyour way, we wouldnt exist and you would be dead for a long time already at the hands of the mosters and murderers you support so dearly.

there are so many lies and settler bashing and making things up, i feel like i am reading a PA sponsored text book!! There are Jewish values that state 100% that we have the right to defend outselves. How dispicable and blind are you that you can look at people who were caught TWICE IN ONE WEEK smuggling weapons and call them the victims and call the IDF who went out of their way to kill a terrorist murderer that the arabs refuse to hunt down, thereby saving innocent lives, the bad people. Your values are incredibly backwards and it actually is painful to see people are so stupid.

She is just a coward that change her description from communist to "socialist" when the world change and the USSR exploded in her face. The world became more aware of the "socialism dream". Stalin was not a popular guy anymore and for Debra in USA the heat of the situation became to difficult to defend. She decided to call herself "socialist" to continue living the good life and feel good at the same time. In some years she will find another definition for her way of trying to feel she is a good person when she actually is a self centered pure blah blah egoist while enjoying a nice life of luxuries.

And why not? All the European democracies are ethnically oriented. You might well continue - you cannot be French and democratic, Italian and democratic, Irish and democratic... Do you believe that us and Canada are the only democracies in the world? What a stupid concept about incompatibility of ethnicity and democracy, which is, after all, based on representation. 10 Arabs are in the Israeli Parliament, more than I can say for France...

THe arrogant, loathing Aloni strikes again with her endless lies and libel of the Jewish people and Israel. "destroy greenhouses" Really, so when misguided American Jews like James Wolfesohn went out of his way to purchase tens of millions of dollars of greenhouses for the Palestinians "inheriting" the Gaza settlements from the expelled Jews (in theory so they would have an economic base from which to rebuild Gaza) and then the Palestinians within minutes of the removal of IDF troops DESTROYED EVERY SQUARE INCH OF GREENHOUSE.....but I guess that was the Isralis fault Shulamit..... Thankfully, Aloni and her ilk will not be in power for long. The traditional community in America is growing immensly in size, strengthening their identity and are going to be the foremost policy-makers on American-Israeli relations in the future.

As someone who was exposed to the usual lefty BS growing up, I see a tremendous similarity between the Israeli left (an intellectually dishonest bunch without a tiny bit of gratitude to those who are Israel's friends/defenders)and the U.S. Jewish left (the Schlemielbergs): a self-righteous phoniness/silliness that is hard to stomach. For example,Aloni had to include her usual pap about the IDF's collective punishment of the Palestinians-yeah,right. Aloni is just lucky she has not been blown up by a homicide bomber-that is true collective punishment,and one endorsed by the overwhelming majority of Palestinians. If idiots-like Aloni,Gal-On, Beilin,etc. had their way,Israel would have lost the war of terror and demographics being waged against it a long time ago.

"We the Israelis must build a more moral society here in accordance with the values of which we boast unjustly. It is worth investing the effort, the anger and the love in building our society and our country, in which Jews are sovereign, in an enlightened democratic and moral Jewish spirit." - Shulamit Aloni While I can appreciate and agree with most of Aloni's sentiments, her mention of Jewish sovereignty in a democratic context reveals a particularism that essentially marginalizes the 20% non-Jewish minority and negates the very idea of the democratic society that she is championing. You can't have it both way, Shulamit.

most jews, i think 80% are secular or not fundemntalists, and would agree with aloni. pity that you have a problem with most jews. i have much respect for this woman of the 21st century. israel and the world would be a much better place with leaders like her. you probably have more in common with the taliban/muslim fundamentalists that her. what a pity.

...and Israeli leaders, but not to exploit and oppress the ordinary Palestinians and Israelis. Michael Green is right. It is a suicide to ignore the terror, the existential threath against Israel. It is just not good to have an open ended war. The conflict is generating Victims. Shulamit's decency should be an inspiration for finishing the conflict. The Palestinians can hope that a future Israeli leader will feel equal responsibility for both nations to end the hostility. Like handing over Gaza to the residents but not without a mutual rehabilitation project. In that case, returning Israeli settlers would be even gladly absorbed by the Gazans there. No such plan was adopted. Gaza was abandoned to a clique of misguided anti-Palestinian leaders. Like Roosevelt gave Eastern Europe to Russia.

A succinct, articulate defining statement, a persuasive clarification.

Zionist, diaspora and religious. But one people able to be together in 'their' national homeland, if and as they choose. In the same way that the homeland of Irish people is Ireland (and there is right of return to Ireland migration). Aloni's denial of the word nationality, is in the modern sense of self determination nation states, not in the historic meaning of "ethnic peoples being nationalities" often under the over-rule of empires. This is a given, as so many Jews are of the ethnic people, but not of the national homeland state. ?With respect to observing "Jewish values" - such as human dignity and freedom; no discrimination on the basis of religion, race or sex; mutual aid and assistance for the subjects of discrimination; and making peace - it is very doubtful that we are more "Jewish" than the Jews of other countries. There they have proven themselves more than we have. Here there is scorn and ridicule for the "other," including the immigrant whose mother is not Jewish. Here rights are not applied equally, and there are many racist elements, both in practice and in law.? End the sexism of matriarchal descent, via a Jewish grandmother parental status to father and mother compromise with religious Jews lest the state of Israel - civil marriages for all, etc etc etc. The Knesset has bargaining power.

Humanists like Shulamit Aloni should rule the world. Things would run better.

A JEWISH state would not have elected an Ehud Olmert! Still, one can hope.

I'm fairly sure Aloni was BORN Jewish, but in what way other than biological IS she Jewish?

By all means, enjoy your Roumanian Hora, and your East European and Arabic food, and speak as much Hebrew as you like. None of those makes a Jew.

Congratulations. There seems to be a consensus that has been stimulated by A.B Yehoshua's speech. Let's all move forward on these fundamental points of agreement towards achieveing the prophetic future long awaited.

We Jews have been around a lot longer than "Israelis," and we'll still be here when they (those Jews who self-identify only as "Israelis") are long gone.

By all means. Of the Netherlands!!!!!

Aloni has fought tooth and nail against anything truly Jewish/Judaic in Israel. In what ways does she identify with Judaism? ("inquiring minds want to know") In what ways, Isaac, do you, if you can agree with 90% of what she says?

The FOREMOST reason for not making Aliyah is still ECONOMIC! Ideology, especially that which urges pity and sympathiy for the "poor Arabs" who are trying to KILL Jews(!) either doesn't rate AT ALL as a reason, or is WAAAAAY down at the bottom of the list, and then only for Jews who don't know who or what they (themselves) are.

I am a Jew who now (as of September 28, 2005) lives in Israel, and is a citizen of both Israel and the USA. Many people here have taken great pains to create an entity called an "Israeli" (unhyphenated as Ms. Aloni says), consciously divorced from any identification as a Jew, possibly to avoid the association with European Jewry (after all, the State of Israel was founded mainly by secularist European Jews), who were seen as antiquated and weak, but WHAT IS AN "ISRAELI?" I'd be willing to bet that the Arab residents of the State of Israel self-identify among themselves as "palestinian," a convenient political fiction that Arabs invented and that the largely Jew-hating Western world bought. Who does that leave to be called "Israeli?" In the Torah, the word "Yisraeli" was synonymous with "Jew." Does it mean anything POSITIVE in the State of Israel, or does it rather mean an ignorant or self-hating Jew? GOOD that one of your children became a ba'al teshuvah, Ms. Aloni!!!

I am a Jew who now (as of September 28, 2005) lives in Israel, and is a citizen of both Israel and the USA. Many people here have taken great pains to create an entity called an "Israeli" (unhyphenated as Ms. Aloni says), consciously divorced from any identification as a Jew, possibly to avoid the association with European Jewry (after all, the State of Israel was founded mainly by secularist European Jews), who were seen as antiquated and weak, but WHAT IS AN "ISRAELI?" I'd be willing to bet that the Arab residents of the State of Israel self-identify among themselves as "palestinian," a convenient political fiction that Arabs invented and that the largely Jew-hating Western world bought. Who does that leave to be called "Israeli?" In the Torah, the word "Yisraeli" was synonymous with "Jew." Does it mean anything POSITIVE in the State of Israel, or does it rather mean an ignorant or self-hating Jew? GOOD that one of your children became a ba'al teshuvah, Ms. Aloni!!!

Thank G-d that Aloni is no longer in a position of power. She behaves like a dictator. But, she is of the past. Jewish awareness has taken root and there are winds of change. Israel is becoming what it should be, A JEWISH STATE.

Bravo Ms. Aloni for your humanistic and sensitive comments on being Jewish. Bravo!!

As a secular Israeli Jew, I agree with most points made by Aloni -- except for the following, which I find totally blind to the existential realities faced by the Jewish state: "The destruction, the killing, the robbery and the humiliation we impose on the Palestinian population as a collective are contrary to international covenants and the 'Jewish values' of which we boast." Firstly, Israel is imposing nothing on the Arabs. The Arabs have been imposing on Israel a 100-year genocidal war in the Jewish homeland, aimed at our national destruction. Israel has been just defending itself - in the most humane possible way - against this Arab Imperialist assault (which also distorts the religion of Islam to serve its aims). Secondly, since Israel is under assault by such an enemy, everything Israel does is 'defensive' in nature and cannot be construed as contradicting either 'international covenants' or 'Jewish values'. Arguing the opposite would be advocating national suicide!

Although it reads more like a lecture than an article, it reminds me of the good old days when Shulamit was my hero, fighting for one cause or another that needed to be addressed. She's right but...for a radical change in Jewish Israeli attitudes, behavior and policy, the educational system must be revolutionized and brought up to Western standards-not on the academic level, but on the social level

shame on haeretz for publishing such an outrageus article using such statements of facts like"the destruction,the killing,the robbery and humiliation etc" it reminds me of streichers volkisher beobachter,

I can subscribe 95% of what Shula sais, basically she doesn't tell anybody what to do, and this is my kind of thing. And to ABY I say: Lama, mi ata? Inyaki.

If you consider yourself as a human being worthy of the name... JOIN THE BOYCOTT You risk nothing--No rubber-coated bullets--No CS gas--no escalations. The act demands little civil courage, but can be effective in reducing the illegal settlements on Palestinian land to zilch. The list is found in: http://www.gush-shalom.org/Docs/boycott_eng.rtf

Thanks for putting most of them so well Ms Aloni. I wish this line were true though!: "We are living a sovereign life as Jews not through voluntary organizations..."

I was also surprised. It is a sad commentary that American Jews see America as their homeland and Yiddish as the language of their forefathers and we in Israel an illiberal racist apartheid country "out there". We might as well be living in Birobaijan. Thereligiousandtraditional Jews identify with us more because of their religiosity they are more alienated to the U.S. and to contemporary amoral American norms.

I am a Yerushalmi, was involved since 1965 with Israel. My parents rest there in their graves. You speak some very good truth. I served with Druze, was invited to their homes in Daliat HaCarmel. Saw the humiliation of Black Jews who in spite of their hardships maintained their dignity & belief (I am married to a Lemba who went through a conversion because the Rabbinate did not accept her. She is certainly more Jewish in belief than I). It is time we recognised that in fact we are not the "chosen people" but a shining example of a nation which even prior to 1948, we had a dream or image of a home. In spite of persecution & horrors of the past we maintained our morals and our dreams. With the advent of a Jewish State, we found a focus. I still remember the number of mitnavdim sitting in London to get a flight to Israel during the 6 day war. I was a youngster then, but each & every one I met was willing to lay down their life for Israel. THAT IS IDENTITY!

Shulamit Aloni for President!

When Argentinian people were on a big economic crisis and people was left without work and almost in the street, it was terrible for us listen the "good" new in Israel, because in Israel thought it would be a good chance to promote the immigration of argentinian jews. I could not believe how such disgrace would be of some benefit for Israel. Argentinian people came here broken, in all ways. He could even adapt to the new situation without a lot of suffering and misunderstanding. Of course, a lot of them return back even if there was anything for them in the country where they were born and grew up. Is it so difficult to understand that a jew like anyother man is related to the place where he was borned and that place is at the first place his country. Israel think that it is easy to transplate a person. Even the plants can not be removed in a brutal way.

Great article. Thank you.

I was surprised when I found that I agree with 90% of the views expressed by Shulamit Aloni in this article. I was even more surprised when I read that she identifies with Judaism

I was surprised when I found that I agree with 90% of the views expressed by Shulamit Aloni in this article. I was even more surprised when I read that she identifies with Judaism

She's an apologist for Arab terror. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_report/story/408666p-345933c.html Palestinian's sorry - that he only killed 66 Israeli civilians. 4/14/06 A Palestinian terror mastermind imprisoned for the deaths of 66 people in Israel, including two New Yorkers, says in a TV interview that he regrets the bombings he was behind didn't kill more.

A lot of good points by Aloni, suggesting firmly that Israeli Jews who live in human rights glass houses should not throw stones at Diaspora Jews. Jews living abroad do wish Israelis well, as Aloni suggests, but there are lots of good reasons for not making aliyah -- the foremost, in my mind, being the rejection of violence against Paletinians and discrimination against Israeli Arabs. (Yesterday's supreme court ruling are especially appalling.)

The arrogance of Aloni is startling, whereas most other opinion pieces have the wording "it is my belief that..." or "i think that...". No, Aloni presents her ideas, hopes and opinions as expressed facts. I thoroughly enjoy reading article by people who don't shar my opinions because we can all learn something. However, taking a subject matter that could have millions of different connotations and opinions and expressing them as established fact is entirely beyond the pale and shows the indignity of the writer.