An anti-Semitic atmosphere

So that means they got us coming and going. We can't win-and whose fault is it,by your own admission??

Stalin killed plenty of people, too, so don't think Hitler played genocide all by himself.

Yes Samantha, EVERYBODY IS CREATED EQUALE, please spread the word in the Arabo-Muslim World, I'll be olease to discuss firther with you. You are, a priori, well aware of the STATUS OF WOMEN int thatculture, Kindly, understand that the more than half of Israel population is there because it was kiked out from there countries of birth, i.e. Muslim countries. Check again your given, you might find that after all you are not being fair to your intellect.

I suppose the author of this article would also claim that the people who isolated supporters of Apartheid South Africa back in its heyday were rabid anti-Europeans or anti-Christians. Bollocks. Colonialism is no longer in fashion. Israel and its supporters simply have to deal with the fact that enlightened people nowadays subscribe to the principle that all men are created equal, not that the people with more guns can take whatever they want. Good on the universities in America for not tolerating racist, colonialist mindsets and the lies they propagate. Hooray for international law and for the rights of all people to equal treatment and due process.

You're a grown man Khalid, do one better than the swastica. If you believe the Nazi atrocities to be equal in scale, intensity, and intent to the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories, you are displaying a serious lack of credibility. Furthermore, the swastica wasn;t a milliennial defining symbol of a people and their religion - it was a 12 year symbol adopted by a short-lived ideology, which in its entire short life had solely done wrong. Now, if I was a man whose anger and bigotry had made him immature, I would perhaps make comments similar to yours regarding the cross and the Islamic crescent. They are millennial symbols of people and religions which terrorized and repressed the Jewish people for hundreds of years, to a much greater extent than anything that ever happened to the Palestinians. Yet, unlike some men, I do not choose to swim in a pool of my own bile, seeing evil in defining symbols of other religions and nations. And yes, the fact that the Star of David symbolizes evil to you unequivocally makes you an anti-Semite.

Avi Becker, There was nothing hostile about Edward Said at Columbia University. Indeed, I felt Edward Said was an utter gentlement in his criticism of Israel. In addition, I recall Edward Said saying how he felt discourse should always be civil in nature. As a result, he had many friends and admirers on both sides of the aisle. Thus I feel your claim is unjust and a distortion of the real causes for the rise in anti-Semtism which I attribute to the unlawful aggression by radical Zionists and their dreadful disrespect and disregard for the lawful and just rights of the Palestinian people to their ancestral land. Dutch

Avi Becker, There was nothing hostile about Edward Said 's approach to Israel at columbia. Indeed, I thought Said was an utter gentlement with his criticism of Israel. Thus your claim is unjust and a distortion of the real reasons for the rise in anti-Semtism. Indeed, it's the unlawful aggression of the Zionists "to inherit the land" and their shocking disregard for the lawful rights of the Palestinian people to their ancestral land. Dutch

Sholom Freedman, The problem is not the radical left but the radical Zionists and their desire to "inherit the land". It's their intrusion into Palestinian life and assault of Palestinian land which is the root cause of anti-Semitism today. It's their infringment on Palestinian rights and land that you ought to teach Jewish students to oppose. That's how to curb ant-Semtism. Dutch

It is curious that mentioning reasons why one disagrees with Israeli policies automatically has nothing to do with the reality of the situation, but everything to do with ones attitude toward the religion of is majority population. It is similar to saying that antipathy toward South African policies was because of hostility toward whites. As a person of the 20th century who has spent his life subjected to agitprop, I must say this is one of the clumsier formulations. As to the claim that Israel was founded as a payment for past injustices to Jews (not retribution, by the way), this is one of the principal justifications given for the country's existence. Designated Victims always claim that the fact that someone else somewhere else at another time did bad things to members of my group gives my group exemption from the rules. I submit that if it is wrong for a gentile majority country to designate Jews for inferior treatment, it is wrong for a Jewish majority country to do so to gentiles. As to wanting Israel to disappear, I simply suggest that Israel take the same steps as South Africa and make everyone equal before the law. When South Africa claimed its unjust policies were necessary for the maintaining the existence of their national homeland, the world's general reaction was that maintaining your group's national homeland is not a justification for mistreating the rest of the poplulation. I hold the same position for Israel.

yea i was thinking about that. it was pretty harsh. but thats the nature of things. i was referring to Arab politics, really, not every arab i see. i actually know a few that i do care about, and its not like i wish every arab i see harm. but what i said was true. i had more political sympathy for Arabs before i started to talk to them, and its pretty much evaporated after all these discussions ive had over the years. and still i think they deserve the same rights as everyone else, but its really in spite of them and because of my liberalism, not because i admire thier politics. if they want to live under dictatorships , fine, let them kill each other. just dont involve me in it. what i said about anti-colonialist rhetoric i still believe. check out my other posts here, especially with khalid (247, 248, and before) to see what im getting at. i think youd notice in my other posts that i try harder to actually dialogue with people here than most, especially with arabs. im desperately looking for someone to prove me wrong about them. so far, not much success.

Mark Lincoln said that Saddam`s regime was not "Hitlerian", that the Baath party was socialist, and the entire regime of Saddam had far more in common with Stalinism than Nazism. Tell that to the Iraki Jews they used to hang for fun in the streets of Baghdad!

It's not just white racism that drives anti-Jewish ideology. Some may see the behavior of the Jewish State as a reflection on all Jews, which is wrong. Given this fact, If I were a member of the Tribe, I'd work to modify the behavior of Israel. Plus, I think that there will always be hate in the world; it's not specific to Jews. Mankind seems to have a nack for deliniating along all kinds of lines.

Isn't it possible that the people in the Zionist movement whose behavior toward Palestinians is reprehensible also helped to create that atmosphere?

when i was a professor in texas tech. in 80s, some local pals and their friends organized exibition about pals history and central part of it was the bible. i did protest and was silenced because of free speech. after such incidents and many others i have NO RESPECT WHATSOEVER to any pals -arabs- complains.

YOu don't care about Arabs at all? That seems a bit harsh; I wonder If you're overstating your true feelings.

Jeff, Stop fabricating Israel's legal rights which are non existant. Since Israel hasn't fulfilled the terms of the decree that created it as a member state in 1947 according to UN 181 & 194 --Israel has no legal rights. Indeed, Israel has about as many legal rights as Sitting Bull right now! Dutch

The claim of the Jews to part of the Land of Israel is based in my opinion on three foundations.First and foremost the Jewsih People through their devotion maintained an inalianable right on part of the Land of Israel and never became "strangers to it"Secondly the Jews had the right to excersise their right of National self determination for the Jews never ceased to be a nation, and it was a clear exigency for us.Thirdly we earned our right to the Land.We came not as colonialists but as Redeemers and Builders and Lovers, it is obvious the Land of Israel felt reunited with her true soul mate as look how she flowered back intothe beautiful young maiden she was, as we knew her when she was young.The Jews and the Land of Israel is a very old love story , we always carried a torch for each other.We each had other husbands and wives but the connection of ones first true love isnever really broken is it? Regards danite

No one is saying that discrimination against Latinos, African Americans, etc., should not be addressed. But academic anti-semitism threatens the integrity of the academic enterprise. This is not about promoting the expression of pro-Israel views or anti-Israel/pro-Arab views. As I said in an earlier post, the mission of academia is to foster education. That includes promoting critical inquiry, responsible scholarship, and creating an atmosphere in which students can engage in the open exchange and debate of ideas without fear of intimidation. Just because this is discrimination involving a group you don't like shouldn't stop people from being concerned about this.

"THE TRUTH IS THAT THE ARAB AMERICAN IS MORE PERSECUTED AND A VICTIM OF A HATE CRIME THAN A JEWISH AMERICAN!" - Irish Sensation Perhaps. In the weeks after 9-11 my journey to my shop took me past a Mosque every morning just before sunrise, and noted how dramatically congestion on the street, and people walking to prayer, had diminished. I understood, and felt for, their fear. But it only took a month or so before all was as before. (Much to my discomfort as I once again had to beware pedestrians and parked cars.) We had a few, VERY few, instances of anti-Muslim acts here in Houston at that time of immense tension, fear and - yes - hatred. I live just north of Meyerland, a traditionally Jewish part of town. (It was founded when deed restrictions still kept Jews from buying homes in many places.) We have the occasional incident of anti-Semitism, but they are very infrequent and are almost universally condemned. I don't think EITHER a Muslim or a Jew has much to fear here in Houston. If the current administration has sought every excuse to bring politically well timed charges against Muslims, it should also be pointed out that American Juries have very often found that those charges were not credible. I would be lying if I asserted there were no religious bigots in America. There are religious bigots everywhere, and of every religion. But I will assert that you overstate the danger that a Muslim faces in the United States.

Once again, I find that the representation of what is going on at American campuses vis-a-vis the state of Israel to be blown out of proportion in the media. The University of California, Berkeley, where I am a student, is often cited as having endemic problems in this respect, always by people who have absolutely no experience with campus activism. At Berkeley, when anti-occupation protests take place, a very, very large number of the protesters turn out to be Israelis or Palestinians, who have themselves seen what is going on in the Occupied Territories and want to make known their first-person perspectives. In contrast, pro-Israeli demonstrators tend to be close to 100% American Jews who have no connection to what is going on there and regularly lie about conditions, which the Israelis present on the other side are quick to refute from their own experiences growing up in Israel and serving in the IDF. I have never heard anti-Semitic rhetoric from Palestinians or Israelis; indeed it is taken for granted that such rhetoric is harmful, hateful, and irrelevant, as some of the most passionate supporters of the anti-occupation movements are Jewish. Nobody in such a protest calls for the destruction of Israel, except the very occasional WASP, whose attitudes are quickly publicly renounced and shunned by both the Palestinians and the Israelis. "Deligitimization of the Israeli state," as the author calls it, is rather a critique of the ruling regime and its ideology, much as one might see in protests against the Iraq war and subsequent occupation, or as one saw in past protests against the French colonial presence in North Africa or the American military presence in Vietnam. There are absolutely no grounds for pulling an anti-Semitism card here, whether one looks at the rhetoric of the overwhelming majority of the protesters (especially those from Israel and Palestine), or, perhaps more tellingly, their ethnic, national, and religious identities.

Here we go again. Anyone who dares criticize Israel for its apartheid policies against its Arab citizens and for its ethnic cleansing policies against Palestinians is immediately branded anti-semitic. To be anti-zionist is far from being anti-semitic. Every single one of my many Jewish friends in the US is anti-zionist. The only hate speeches heard on US campuses come from zionists who rant against Muslims and against anyone who doesn't kiss up to Israel. As anti-semitism has dwindled to almost nothing, panicked zionists are desperate to continue the victimhood propaganda. Give it up. Get a new fiddle and a new tune.

"That Land has only blossomed under the loving hands of the Jews while the Arabs and ottomans turned into a dump over the millenia, . . " - Danite That used to be one of the most often heard justifications for Jewish occupation of Israel when I was young. "We came, we built, we enriched." Now, oddly, the orthodox sorts who 50 or 70 years ago would disparage the idea of a political Israel, established by the sweat of the brow, should exist; have ideological ancestors who claim ancient heritage as the source of right. I my self was always far more comfortable with the assertion - the historical reality understood - that Israel was built under great adversity and with incredible dedication and effort, and thus had the right to exist than the claim of some johnny-come-lately that, I might have arrived after the work was done, but God gave it to me.

Yes I undesrtand your feelings and thoughts,most would rather hack at each others sensationalist ignorance than get into any real discussion.I was at 'the rabble" for a while before they threw me off as I blew my top at the stiffling poilitical correctness and PC wonks all over that place.Any how, as for the Liberals.To tell you the truth I dont know what they discuss behind closed doors but obviously their policy shift re Israel is most welcome.As I said canada state to state with Israel has always benn very positive and friendly I guees they towed the Euro line to both passively "differentiate" canada from the US and in that oh so typical canadian way, remain pathologicaly within "the consensus"There was alot odf push and pull between Canadian Muslimand jewsih groups ove r that I am glad it went the right way.I guess it can be written off to electioniring although we dont "occupy" Ottawa as much as we do washington,but the fact is Canadian jews are well established and have a good reputation in canada and are well viewed by most Canadians, not that the Canadian Muslims dont make their contributions but Jews are much more well established and have shed their blood for this country in two world wars and so maybe greater consideration was givin to jewsih sensibilites on the subject.Thats about as far as I can specualte on that buddy.Would love tyo hear your thoughts.Regards as Usual Danite

Hi Kim You began rather late today.I suppose one has to attend other day to day matters eh? I hope that this comes out,not that I have contributed much but I wanted to say hiya! Glad you enumerated all he ills of their thinking.Very apropos! In case I don't see you here before Christmas I Wish you a very Merry Cristmas and a Happy New Year. Also Happy Chanukha to Ha'aretz Editors and Staff in advance (before I forget). Also to my Jewish brethren all on the forums. Ashamed to say since I cannot get a calendar here where I live I don't know exactly on which day Chanuka falls.I know it is at almost the same time as Christmas. Regards S p/s Khalid es muncho amargo,No?

Danite, Saddam's regime was not "Hitlerian". The Baath party was socialist, and the entire regime of Saddam had far more in common with Stalinism than Nazism. I know I piss everyone off by pointing out that their favorite hate object may not be exactly like their favorite villain, but I think it is important that the modes of totalitarianism be distinguished with sufficient clarity to both avoid discrediting oneself, and confusing reality when people see totalitarianism arising. While, for example, I am no fan of the Bush regime, it is clear that it is not 'fascist." A fascist regime would actively regulate the economy to benefit capitalists, whereas the Bush regime does not. It might believe government should hold the public down while the corporations rape it, but that is NOT the same as the idea that the government should control the economy. Saddam was a despot. He was a dictator. He was ruthless and willing to commit mass murder for personal, family and political gain. One can say the same of Hitler. But Hitler was far much more in terms of the scope of his dreams for society, the degree which he was willing to go to in remaking the world, and the specific uses he made of fascist ideology. Essentially, Saddam had no ideology, and no plan beyond personal, family and political enrichment. As for Stalin, Lenin once described him as "the soul of an oriental despot."

I totally agree with you. On my campus I see a lot of students wearing kippahs without an occasion and they seem quite comfortable about it. On the other hand, try getting an Arab male to wear a kuffiyeh... Not a chance with the current hate and descrimination against Arabs and Muslims. Muslim females are already being descriminated against because of their hijab (headscarf) since it makes them easy identifiable targets...

When Israelis prevent critically ill people and women in childbirth from crossing borders to get urgent medical care in hospitals, anti-semitism is only a step away. One has to really struggle to have sympathy for the Israelis these days and its becoming less worthwhile.

Nor did any Jewish servicemen blow up their officers in Kuwait.Nor do American Jews call for the downfall of the USA or annmounce that they want to convert all of the USA. Thats why people feel threatened!! PS.You have not replied as to where and when "your boys and girls died for Israel.

and importantly, El-birawi was telling me today not to ask him to believe any Jewish religious claims about the land. So why should I have to believe in Muhammed or the Quran? Im not obligated to recognize any so-called revelation, am I? And what do you mean by respect the Prophet Muhammed and the Quran? What am I supposed to do? hes just another guy to me. frankly, if i want to draw a picture of him as a pig then I will, although the only reason I could think of to want to would be to spite anyone who tried to force me to "respect" him. do you think im supposed to bow down before him? do you believe in this dhimmi stuff? do you believe that this is justice for me? does this sound like something you would consider a dignified life if you had to live as one? i think if muslims want to believe the Quran is the latest installment of "the book" then by all means go ahead and do it. if you, or christians, want to believe you are new and improved versions of the Jews then go right ahead. just dont expect me to believe in it too. are you saying that in order to be considered the political equal to a Muslim I have to actually be a Muslim? is this something you actually believe in? i didnt hear this about Jews being the richest in Islam, but I'll keep an eye out for it in my reading. Also, I read Yisrael Shahak and was disgusted by him. The Judaism he was talking about was totally unrecognizable to me as the religion I knew and was studying. If Bernard Lewis seems like a propagandist to you, I literally thought Shahaks book was neo-nazi propaganda until i saw Chomsky endorse it on the back.

Khalid, I never said I was a scholar on anything Islamic. In fact, I said the opposite. I also am very aware when I read someone like Lewis that hes neither Arab nor Muslim, at least as far as I know, so I dont take him as the last word. I wanted to confirm what Id heard from someone who couldnt possible be accused of having an anti-Islamic agenda, like yourself. the image i get of life for Jews in Muslim-controlled lands was that it was generally much better then under Christianity, and that at times it was even quite good. But also that there was very little ambiguity about the fact that Jews were considered a subjugated population who had to submit to Islamic rule, and to many restrictions and customs, which varied to some degree depending on the circumstances, and which were often humiliating and oppressive. Even if things were quite good at times, the Islamic rulers considered it thier right to assert thier dominance over Jews at any moment. Im aware of Maimonides and other Jews who became prominent in Arab governments and societies, but this doesnt mean that the political relationship was one of equality. In fact, it makes it sound like Jews are supposed to be like the family milk cow: managed, protected, even loved, but ultimately domesticated for consumption and not considered an equal. I occasionally encounter Muslims in person or in literature, who have this attitude, seemingly innocent and well-intentioned, that everything will be alright if only Muslims are in control. That Muslims are the natural rulers and we should all be grateful to live under thier rule. Im reading something by Imam Khomeini and hes saying similar things. Well I dont want to be anyones dhimmi, not even under the "best" circumstances. As far as this people of the book thing, it seems to be like its not based on any genuine tolerance of someone elses beliefs. Ive heard Muslims profess great respect for Jesus, and say basically what youre saying, that Islam respects all of the prophets and therefore all of the religions. but then a second later they are ridiculing the belief in Jesus as the son of God, God, etc... essentially ridiculing Christianity itself. In other words, its not really about respecting someone elses beliefs, as much as it is imposing a Muslim version of those beliefs.

Well, this text sounds better. And we could add much more details, or initiatives, or new structures via the internet that are helping. But its clearly too late to prevent something in this case and the conflict in Israel will not end soon. So, we will see another 5 years or more of figthing against mass-waves of antisemitic-speeches and actions. On the other hand, as I told you already, the problem itself can only be solved if the US/The West is ready to take the next step into a equal society. The more equal the society is, the less extremisms, xenophobics, racists can gain ground. The daily state of the equality-example: "In a 2003 Supreme Court decision upholding affirmative action, Justice Sandra Day O'Connor said that because of America's history of racial bias it would take 25 years more, and Professor Ferguson thinks maybe longer." http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/14/education/14education.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1134602182-Plne0l9Z77ys88D62VbdaQ America, the normal country with normal problems and not free of society deseases.

I'm not sure what more is to be accomplished on this talkback. Sometimes there are informative posts and sometimes there are interesting speculations about possible policy moves, but too much of the time is spent merely rebutting ridiculous claims, name-calling and employing the tactic of substituting harsh and offensive, but unsubstantiated assertions for argument and rational inquiry. Regarding an earlier post of yours, I sincerely hope most NDPers don't consider Svend the epitome of realism. But I'm still curious about what goes down inside the Liberal discussion groups when it comes to Israel & Palestine. Any guesses?

... In France in 1936, the prime minister was jew. 7 years later, France was collaborating and deporting with zeal its jews ... Poto, looks like you don't really read what i wrote. The jews as victims of history and humanity is a fact, not my desire. And you'll notice that i'm not particularly bent on keeping the victim status as i consider the victim's automatic privilege as undue. One has to look at a situation as a whole to assess it, not just finding out who's the underdog and who's not. The answer i wrote for Berdugo Amiel goes this way. I don't expect people to read all the 250 replies to this article and so i have to be specific on that again. Don't be fooled by the way Israel was created after the Shoah as some sort of retribution for the victims. It's been created voluntarily on a precarious basis, in a volatile and hostile environment to put it to the test of natural selection. And so far, Israel has won its right not to be created there by the UN and historical heritage but to STAY THERE by its pure will to. Now i'm not sure why you don't reply more specifically on the examples i brought up, maybe YOU don't find justifications for your position but it's also a fact that life for arabs in Israel is better than it is in any arab country, certainly not perfect but much better. The bias toward jews in Israel is the least Israel can do. Asking Israel not to be the jewish homeland comes down to the same as wanting it to disappear. To fulfill its role as a ultimate refuge and legitimate homeland of a specific people, Israel has to be ... SPECIFIC, yes ! And this specificity is not the way they drive or the color of running water, it's in this very case the religion of the majority. You're trying to hide antijudaism behind antizionism behind antiracism behind anticulture of the majority behind universalism. Peek a boo !

I'm a non believer because I believe in science and Engineering, and yes I'm the one who said "People its just a book" or "BOOKS" and it is a fairy tale. But in one post you quote the bible then you call it fairy tells. By the way if you want to hear thousands of Israeli Jews working midnight tune to Galleyzahal after 8 PM ET. Most of the people I know started to work at a very early age, eleven years old in my case, I can assure you my friend Jews are not laizy , we have our small share but not different then any other people. Humans are Humans they are all the same,only religion makes them different, as a nonbeliever you should know that.

Howdy Yosef; You said, "Israel has a need to tie itself to semitism. It also needs to forge an absurd definition of semitism that includes jews and not arabs to legitimize the existance of the state." What? Israel has no need to tie herself to any particular ethnic group, but rather, to a religion namely, Judaism. There are Jews from every race on the planet although I must admit that there are very Jews of African or Asian descent. Unlike the Druze, anybody is free to convert to Judaism if they like. Being a member of a Semitic ethnic group is not a prerequisite for being a Jew. The term "anti-Semite" has come to mean anti-Jew through common usage, but it has no racial content to it anymore. Israel couldn't care less how the rest of the world defines the word "Semitism" and (insofar as I'm aware) has no designs to forge a new definition of the word. The legitimacy of the State of Israel does not rest upon definitions of words, but rather, upon the facts that 1) she exists, 2) she is recognized as a sovereign country by most of the international community, and 3) she is most capable of defending herself.

There unfortunately is so much ingorance, especially here in the south, that I've myself seen the police who got a call on an elderly male Arab walking down the streets and being stopped by an officer who advised him that he was called because someone stated there was a suspicious person in the neighborhood. Give me a break! How many people who never talk to mideasterners feel comfortable standing next to a male wearing a kuffiyeh? Exactly, no need to sugar coat this. THE TRUTH IS THAT THE ARAB AMERICAN IS MORE PERSECUTED AND A VICTIM OF A HATE CRIME THAN A JEWISH AMERICAN!

Academic freedom is not about telling lies and inciting hatred. On the contrary, Universities should teach the true.

When they were airing Arafat's funeral and all the Palestinians were by the compound, Imus stated the Palestinians were cockroaches and all should be bombed and killed! Hmm, he's still employed and has his morning shows. What would have happened if he said that about Jews? YUP EXACTLY, proof in the pudding the Palestinian is hated, and victim of racism, not Jews.

Dr. Arian, criticized Israel's policies all the time. He did not make any remark about the Jewish faith. Second off, yes even here in America making comments about Muslim Americans once in a great while will be so publicized that the one making such comment will get canned. They will not get jailed. Second off, Muslims are the ones who are hated, and victims of hate crimes way more than Jewish Americans. The Jews cannot hold the title of the "persecuted" forever. There's a new victim nowadays, and how saddening that the persecuted is being walked all over by the previous victim, now oppressor (meaning how the Zionist lobbies with the assitance of right wing evangelicals use tons of hate speech against Islam and Muslims).

You have the opportunity to go join your people in the PA and build a new society but you insist on remaining in Israel because you know you have better medical services, better social services and a much better life altogether. Your poor cousins from the West Bank despise you because they consider you a hypocrite and a traitor. If you go to Egypt, Sinai specifically, locals regard you as a terrorist. The only people that like you is the Israeli left and probably the editors of Haaretz that published all the rubbish that you wrote but will probably censor my letter.

Are you sure you dont mean Arabs were you write Israelites?In all the time the Arabs have been ruining Israel they built only one city Ramle thats it one.Who are you calling lazy?That Land has only blossomed under the loving hands of the Jews while the Arabs and ottomans turned into a dump over the millenia, thank G-d the Jews saved it from your destruction and stagnation.And you no doubt are some kind of Arab intellectual are you?

Thank you for revealing the fundamental reason behind anti-semitism in your distorted reveiw of Jewish history: JEALOUSY. As you rightly point out, Jews have been around since the beginning of recorded time, almost always as a badly outnumbered minority. But Jews have survived the odds time and time again. The reason the mighty canaanites need you, Mustapha, to speak for them is because they took their surprisingly strong and resourceful Jewish enemies for granted and paid a major price. Because of sheer determination and dedication, Israel has emerged as a regional powerhouse militarily, economically, politically...generations ahead of its neighbours on all these fronts. It is therefore quite predictable that the academic left would discriminate against Israel. Historically, our enemies kicked us when we were down, dramatically outnumbered and overpowered. Today, during a period of relative peace and strength, new enemies emerge, jealous of our progress. But make no mistake: we outwitted and outlasted the former type and will surely do the same with respect to the current enemy.

i dont believe two wrongs make a right. i believe we will all be accountable for what we do someday. Im a Zionist, and I'm willing to be held accountable, and I think I will come out at least as well as most, and better then some. Clearly, though, I'll never measure up to the Armenians, or you, for that matter. Maybe you could offer some of your patronizing advice to the Palestinians about how to move on and adjust to life in the diaspora?

The difference is the Palestinians must use guns while the Israelis use the ballot.

Khalid Are you that uninformed about the symbol of the "swastika".How dare you taunt Ilaya about it. Are you so backward apart from continuous discussions concerning Israel bashing? The Swastika was used by the Nazis in an odious manner. But surely you know the real meaning of it and from where it originated and what its true meaning is? NO? Okay I'll tell you just in case it slipped your mind being a bit too full of cobwebs. It is from the Upanishads of India and derives from "Sanskrit" meaning WELL BEING. The dreadful nazis at the time had to find an unusual symbol for their new party. Unfortunately it was not very appropriate now was it? There is also a reason perhaps because the "Indians like Persians" are not semites BUT ARYANS and are members of the Indo-European laguages etc,etc. Well now,why didn't you think of that I'd like to know. Here's a joundiced view by the Germans,at the time though.Can you imagine hitler joining a brotherhood with blackish looking people eh? Here ends my bit of information to you or whoever writes your posts. Goodby S

Hey Mustafa, as a citizen of Israel you can say out loud that the Quran and the Torah (and what about the New Testament?) are fairy tales, and nobody will hurt or kill you for saying so. Go stand on a soapbox in Nablus or Ramallah and try saying the same thing.

Close, but no cigar... ah it was much more fun to use that line when Clinton was in office... I do appreciate your response. It's more than what we get out of many other posters. Although, to this point, I have found that MONA also is courteous enough to reply when directly questioned. Not sure there is a way to solve this one, but Arafat's birth certificate shows he was born in Cairo. He then emmigrated to France to die, but that's another story Barak was born in Israel (Kibbutz Mishmar Hasharon). I wouldn't deny that it was the European Jews who buckled down and created a modern political state of Israel out of lands that were up for grabs. However, the control of a white only political establishment is long gone. i forgot to add Pertez, current Labor leader, to the list. He is from.. shoot I don't remember where, but white he is not.

The media has been for ages very Pro Israeli and anti Palestinian. Go to Europe and the news is more balanced. Of course all the ardinent Pro Israelis will say that's because Europe is anti semetic, or misinformed. Bull! Schools conduct constant research, and it pisses off the Israelis that by academic research more people see that Israel has plenty of faults. Of course most of the institutions are also showing how the PA has messed up on Palestinian domestic politics. Hence, you cannot deny freedom in academics. As long as there is nothing of hate presented, then as an academic counter a professor who states Israel's occupation is the current cause of the conflict. That's why educational institutions are here. This is a great balance vs the media which nearly everyone seems to believe because of the laziness of opening up a book. Tough luck, deal with it. What's next, is the Zionist lobby going to start getting funds cut to institutions that voice out support for oppressed Palestinians?

Arafat was born in Egypt im afraid. I am trying to find who was the palestinian leader before Arafat....can you tell me please.

Jews-haters' excuses: -they killed Jesus -they killed children -the wanted to control the worl -they were the main problem for Europe There wasn't "occupation" then. Now it is the "occupation". And what do the American, French Jews, etc. have to do with it? What are they occupying?

Said didn't introduce Derrida or Foucault to North America. He did however borrow especially from Foucault. He didn't borrow much from Derrida because had he done so: first, he would have been obligated to deconstruct his own narrative, which he was unprepared to do and anyways is impossible for a polemicist, and second, few would have been able to understand what he was talking about.

Kramer isn't affiliated with Campus Watch.

You asked for a clarifacation of my contention that Saddams regime was Hitlerian.Did you see it last night and if so what do you think.Regards

And to make it worse so many Arab academics are so purile and mediocre, just repeating hackneyed phrases and slogans, not even bothering to do the work themselves.I wonder what they would have done without edward said to wave around.Of course the Jewsih students have to sit through this modern version of the medieval demonisation sessions the priests would deliver every sunday, it just goes to show you the real nature of arabic politcal culture which is intolerant paranoid power hungry ego centric and anti intellectualism masquerading as scholarship.They arent even good or interesting at what they do, it is the level of kindergarden stories.Regards

Yes the Concordia student union under the sway of arab fascist students and their flake canadian acolytes tried to ban Hillel because they handed out forms for people to volonteer for the IDF doing logisticalsupport type things.They tried but failed ad found themselves the target of a law suit over the damages they caused at their temper tantrum demonstration against Netanyahu in which they smashed up the university.Imagine they come to Quebec with the lowest tuitions in North America and they trash the university, if it were up to me they would have been on the first plane out of canada.Regards

Name calling is so Said. No critical engagement just name calling. Until you can make a cogent argument against Ibn Warraq's, Malcolm Kerr's, or Martin Kramer's critiques of Said's Orientalism, I'll stick with scholarly essayists. And as far as Ibn Warraq being anti-Muslim, prove it. Ibn Warraq isn't anti-Muslim; arguing for secularisation isn't anti-Muslim. Tell me Bainem, is Islam the solution?

So you mean that the terrorists are right.

It is not Israel. The American Jews are being attacked. Besides, what do the 1967 borders have to do with it? Israel is being attacked by terrorists who want it to disappear.

re:Arabs are Semites too, by Eva: I'd love to see a white Ashkenazi Jew esp from the West (or Israel) admit that he shares an ethnic/racial link to Arabs. Even, for that matter, to the Sephardim, who are routinely referred to as 'black' or non-white Jews and discriminated against all the time. Sephardim are the only Semitic Jews in the world, and the Ashkenazis' admission and actions bear out that truth. You can't have your white cheesecake in the West and your Semitic pie in Israel: you have chosen which race you identify with.

Critizising that Israel kills terrorists is anti-Semitism.

Frum Boy - You are absolutely right. Just try wearing a kippah at some of the pro-Palestinian tribal rituals on campus! It is anti-Semitic because their focus is so selective. Of all the nations in the world, these groups single out one and only one country -- not for criticism (which is legitimate) but for villification. They ignore the human rights violations of all the Islamic countries...name one which guarantees basic human rights to Jews, Christians, gays, or women. Instead they pick on Israel.

Ehud Barak: Kibbutz Mishmar Hasharon http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/barak.html http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/bar0bio-1 Moshe Katsav: Iran (correct) Shalom: Tunisia (correct) Sharon: Israel (correct) Arafat: Cairo http://nobelprize.org/peace/laureates/1994/arafat-bio.html

One of the ways that it becomes obvious that it is anti-Semitism rather than anti-zionism on campus, is the treatment recieved by those who wear a kippah. Ignore the adopted rhetoric of anti-colonialism. Its the same old Jew hatred with new vocabulary.

The day you figure out that being "Pro-Palestinian" is not neccessarily "Anti-Israeli" will be a day which brings forth hope. Until then, your cries of "Free Palestine" will echo as a threat to which peace loving people will not cater.

Haaretz join to Pipes and Kramer in their ant-Academic freedom campaign?

"New York, NY, November 18, 2005 ? In a written submission to the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights briefing on campus anti-Semitism, the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) described a number of disturbing recent incidents of anti-Semitism, vandalism, and distribution of hate literature at colleges and universities across the country. While the ADL noted that institutional anti-Semitism, discrimination, and quotas against Jewish students and faculty are "largely a thing of the past," the League outlined a series of incidents in which stridently anti-Israel activism on campus had crossed the line into anti-Semitic intimidation and harassment." http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASUS_12/4829_12.htm

As an American whose political views fall to the left of the Democrats, I can safely say that nothing undermines the credibility of the American left more than the irrationality with which they approach the Israeli/Palestinian issue. I agree with the article (and some of the posters here) that Israel has fallen into a position where it is now viewed as a bunch of white Europeans oppressing a bunch of dark natives. This is, as any truely objective observer would agree, an over simplification that only obscures the actual history and current realities. With the wholesale adoption of the Palestinian's narrative (and a simultaneous complete rejection of the Israeli narrative), the academic left in America, regularly supports positions that fail any sort of test for truthfullness and balanced coherency. Appropriately, the Palestinian narrative is a revolutionary one in which passion outweighs rational thought and historical accuracy. Unfortunately, When combined with the essentially rational approach to academia that one finds in America, confusion abounds. Many students of today believe, for example, that a massacre involving hundreds of dead civilians occured in Jenin a few years ago. Most American students have no idea that 50% of Israel's Jewish population came from other ME countries and never had any relatives in Europe. Throughout my college career at UC Berkeley, I regularly had friends who came to school knowing nothing about the ME. After a class or two in the "Peace and Conflict Studies" Dept., they would say things like "No country in the world is as interested in starting wars as Israel" and "The Jews are European and have a manufactured mythical history in the land of Israel" and "1967 was a war of Israeli agression". I heard, from otherwise rational people, that "All Jews are ardent right wing Zionists and consequently take pleasure in the dispossetion of the Palestinians" that "Israel's true aim is to establish a state reaching from Iran to Libia". I realize, as I write this, that some folks out there are shaking their heads in agreement, but those folks are suffering from delusions. I also realize that UC Berkeley is considered on the "left" of American Institutions (something for which I am usually grateful), but no one on this forum should doubt that to be openly Jewish on an American campus is to invite invection from ignorant students and faculty alike; all of whom seem to have grasped the Palestinian plight as a central part of the liberal vouge. It has been said (and I think somewhat correctly) that Zionism is the only successful revolution of the 20th century. For the price of success, it must now bear bitter resentment from all those who support less sucessful attempts (lost attempts) to change the status-quo. The communists, the greens, the fascists, the islamists, etc... they all distrust Israel simply because it continues to exist.

-"5. Determines that all measures taken by Israel to change the physical character, demographic composition, institutional structure or status of the Palestinian and other Arab territories occupied since 1967, including Jerusalem, or any part thereof, have no legal validity and that Israel's policy and practices of settling parts of its population and new immigrants in those territories constitute a flagrant violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War and also constitute a serious obstruction to achieving a comprehensive, just and lasting peace in the Middle East"-

So you think that being anti-Israel is not anti-semitic? that's ridiculous. Wait a minute. You strongly oppose Israeli Jews. So you are being anti-semitic. It's simple. You are full of double standards. For you, it's okay to hate Israelis Jews, while "love" American Jews. Sorry, you have offended most Jews.

The piece begins by citing the Harvad President's caution against branding all criticism of Israel anti-semitism. What's interesting is that virtually all of the succeeding examples of 'anti-semitism' are actually examples of admittedly especially virulent attacks on Israel. Not one example of anti-semitism per se is cited. To use that metaphor so abhorrent to Israelis, it's like accusing anyone vehemently opposed to Naziism of being anti-German. I'm cheerfully, vehemently opposed to Israel. Does it follow that I'm anti-semitic? If it does, then 'anti-semitism' has become nothing more than a loaded term for describing opposition to Israel. The fact of the matter is that it is possible to find the existence of Israel in its present utterly outrageous without reference to who it is who is committing this outrage. Therefore, to equate attacks on Israel -- however vehement or scurrilous -- with antisemitism is logically untenable. It merely cheapens the word 'antisemitism' and robs it of meaning.

So, how exactly do you define "Free Palestine" and "Pro-peace"? Do you mean a two-state solution, with both an Israel and a Palesine both living in peace and security? Would this also call for an end to suicide bombings against Israeli civilians, as you would call for an end to many of Israel's current policies concerning the Palestinians? Are you willing to call both the repulsive destruction of innocent human life? Wouldn't condemning both be the appropriate response of a pro-peace activist? And what exactly makes you anti-Israel? Do you just oppose "the occupation" and current Israeli policies towards Palestinians, or is your solution to the problem total opposition to the very existence of Israel?

Daniel, my good man: Most residents of Um Al Fahm want to be part of S. Lebanon, not Palestine.

You should respect the dignity of this forum. When you insist that the IDF or IOF as we call it, only targets "building used by combatants" you are degrading the level of this conversation. I expect you to have the honesty of an intellectual, which you obviously don't. Everybody knows that the IDF has destroyed entire neighborhoods in Gaza, Rafah, Jenin, Khan Younis. This newspape, Ha'aretz, wrote about this fact extensively, and people, including many Israelis, know this fact very well. So, you have to choose between acting like an IDF larynx or mouthpiece, or an independent and serious interlocuter. Have a good night.

Well fortunately your fellow Jewish students that are hardcore pro-Palestinian don't reflect the majority of Jews around the world. These Jewish students belong in pro-Israeli groups, I don't know how they were brainwashed. By the way, how can you be pro-peace if you think that IJ and Hamas are legitimate groups? Peace=end of suicide bombings and isolation.

However much I agree with you, we'll still have mostly name calling and very little debating. One, the subject is very personal for many people who participate in the talkback and two, egos get hurt every so often and that's how they assuage themselves.

Perhaps you won't agree because if you did you would have to renounce your self-image as a Victim. Without invoking their status of Designated Victims most supporters of a religiously biased Israel would have very little justification for their position. In the USA the status of Jews has reached the place where the fear you maintain is ridiculous. You only have to look at Jews' positions in our society. Looking at our government, one of our two major political parties ran a Jewish candidate for vice-president (who, if the president dies, becomes head of state). Two of our nine Supreme Court justices (the people who to a large extent define our country's laws) are Jews. Jews represesnt a much higher percnetage of the membereship of our Congress than the Jewish percent of our population. I could go on at exhaustive length, but suffice it to say that Jews are not in danger here.

Israel has a need to tie itself to semitism. It also needs to forge an absurd definition of semitism that includes jews and not arabs to legitimize the existance of the state. The reason this all falls apart at institutions of higher education is because many see the sheer hipocrasy in it all. A state fleeing from racsim founds itself on racism. Perhaps in the controlled bubbles of Zionist propoganda this can make sense. Yet when people are exposed to the realities of history they are likewise exposed to the injustice which is the cornerstone of the state of Israel. Zionism is often touted as a success yet what has is succeeded in doing? The goal was to establish a safe place for Jewish people to live yet the State of Israel has not seen a day of saftey in its existance and will never see that as long is it continues to stick by the racist principles upon which it was founded and fails to critically analyze itself. Does it not bother the Israelis that a society was uprooted so that this state would have a place to be? 1 million Jews came to israel in 1949. Only 700,000 where there before. This is a unheard of birthrate that no country, not even a well founded country could accommodate. Yet some how there where enough houses there was a existing and recently cleansed infrastructure available. So long as the foundation of the state of Israel is fear the people will always be afraid and incapable of understanding themselves let alone understanding others.

Jake: The Torah & the Koran are both fairy tales. Nice stories but very little truth. You believe the Adam & Eve pie in the sky story. Come on Jake, you're a grown man. Next thing you will be telling me you believe in Santa Claus, the tooth fairy and Little David & Goliath parable.

Ehud Barak: Lithuania Katsav: Iran Shalom Tunisia Sharon: Israel but Russian origin Arafat: Jerusalem not Cairo:)

Hey gang, I read your posting and it was simply stupid. Here are some inane examples of what some college students. "I definitely do not think that Israel is as bad as Nazi Germany, but if parallels are foundnts have come up with." First of all if you are writing representing more than one person, the sentence should begin with me. Ahhh, the state of education today. Yes I agree if the Jewish state were to parallel Nazi Germany, then yes you should make the comparison. But in this case it does not emulate nor parrallel Nazi Germany. when we go about rounding up whole villages of its citizens, round them up onto trains and send them to their mass deaths in concentration camps, I too will join the shrill cry. but until that day comes, to draw parallels is a load of shit, and dangerous. the students or student then wrote; "Earlier this year, a Jewish student was walking back to his Jewish fraternity when he was savagely brutalized by Neo-Nazis (not UT students). THAT is real anti-Semitism, and it is despicable. As one poster stated below, calling any criticism of Israel anti-Semitic trivializes this kind of sick behavior." As a Jew it does not really interest me if the attackers are neo-nazis or a fanatic group of Democrats. whether you appreaciate it or not, the mob mentality of your mindset which criticizes Israel and draws parallels between the Jewish state and the Nazis helps to create an atmosphere which allows the Neo-nazis and other people of hate to act freely. Please wake up and realize the reprecussions of your over-reactions to Israel and its predicament. Now go study or drink.

Observing the comments and retorts made on these discussion boards shows you just how unlikely peace in the Middle East really is. Look at the accusations and how one group simply refuses to give credence to anything the other has said, and you see that people on both sides just want a fight. It is that simple.

Ilaya, I don't care if you believe it or not. I will not strive to satisfy you or convince you of anything. If you think I hate Jews, you are free to do so, I couldn't care less about what you think. I won't suppress your freedom of speech. Besides, this is not a popularity contest..this is an act of rape that must end. As to the star of David, it is a military symbol engraved on Israeli bulldozers that demolish poor peple's homes, and Israeli warplaens that drop 1-ton bombs on apartment buildings in the middle of the night...It is also engraved on the helments of Isreli occupation soldiers who routinely and daily murder, brutalize, and humiliate Palestinian civilians. People don't love their tormentors, nor their symbols. Do Jews love the Swastika, which is originally a religious symbols as well?

Ibn Waraq is famous for being stupid, hainous, and anti-muslim.. I don't even see how he could have written his ludicrous venom with such an untalented mind. I think haaretz didn't take your 3 msg because they were stupid, not because of any reason imagined by your mind. and please, do not compare the man who introduced Foucault & Derrida to the US to an freak like Ibn Waraq.

For you Arab posters I would say, don't get your hopes up when you read how elite american universities facilitate anti-Israel sentiments. Most of the extreme left students here only care until they graduate, and then become raging careerists, who are more interested in the whales than the Palestinians. You need to worry more about the common american student. The common american student does not distinguish between arab countries or level of religious belief. No, most look at you as being Mohammad Attah's immediate relatives, and having weird and alien religious ideas and positions on things like women's rights. Is some of it racist? Yes, and wrong too. But if you think you are going to win the hearts and minds of generation Y and beyond, no way. Given 9-11 and concerns about terrorism here I think it is a good bet to try and negotiate with Israel now because the future leaders and voters of America do not care about you or already think you are their enemy.

According to you, the Egyptians threw out the Israelites because they were lazy. That's funny because according to the story I know, the Israelites were in Egypt as slaves building cities like Raamses and Pithom, and also pyramids, and Joseph was already lord of Egypt when his family entered. The Israelites you are talking about are probably the ones who built Umm el Fahem using money from selling coal. Once the Arab armies of Omar and Khalid ibn al Walid occupied the area, they were too lazy to work to pay the 'jizya' tax, so they adopted the Arab and Islamic identity instead. You would be recommended to read properly the Bible before quoting it, otherwise you run the risk of making the same mistake as Saddam Hussein. He proclaimed himself the new Nebuchadnezzar that would invade Jerusalem, without reading the part about how Nebuchadnezzar was utterly defeated a few years later by the Persians, and the Babylonians were utterly erased from history while the Jews returned to and rebuilt Jerusalem.

Former Prime minister Ehud Barak was born where? To parents that came from where? Current President Moshe Katsav was born where? MK Silvan Shalom was born where? Current Prime Minister Ariel Sharon was born where? And just so we're clear; Yassir Arafat was born where?

Hey I know, because I was there. Before 1988 it was difficult to get anyone to pay attention to the terrible Iron Fist Israeli Occupation. Everyone thought Israel was simply fighting for her existence against Arab hatred and rage. Then came the first Intifaddeh. What a glorious event. Israel could have responded by making peace, but instead we got Rabin declaring a policy of breaking the bones of any Palestinian youth who dared throw a Holy Stone at an Israel soldier. Israel's standing fell to the gutter because of her own actions. All you accusers of anti-Semitism - look in the mirror.

israel can solve all this by withdrawing to 67 borders. give back palestinains all west bank, east jerusalem and link them to gaza. This is what majority of palestinians want and are willing to fight any palestinian group that tries to stop that from happening. You israelis can stop all this anti-semitism that you claim is occuring in US universities. NO MORE OCCUPATION AND SUBJIGATION OF ENTIRE PEOPLE CAN BE ALLOWED, THE ALTERNATIVE IS TERRORISM.

I'm a proud on campus supporter of Palestinian rights and in our many groups are Jewish students, Africans, Asians...you name them, they're Pro-Palestinian. All because we're pro-Palestinian and pro-Peace, doesnt make us Anti-Semitic. Pointing fingers at anti-Israel groups and calling them Anti-Semitic is a bunch of BS made by Israel and it's supporters. Anways, what does it matter what we do on our campuses? We're just the next generation of leaders of the world. FREE PALESTINE!!!!!!

This sais it alll.. to me this as good an argument as it gets to meka sure to put Um Al Fahm into the palestinian State and Outside the boundaries of Isarel

The strongest argument against Zionism per se, is implicitly made by the majority of the world's Jews, who choose to not live in a Jewish state. To argue against Israeli policies, without being anti-semitic, one would have to proceed from the assumptions that 1)Israel exists (the term "right to exist is meaninless. Does Mongolia have a "right to exist?"),and 2)that Israelis can express their own societal worries and problems, without Arabs (or Norman Finkelstein) putting any words in their mouths. Such concerns must be respected as such. All of the rest is anti-semitism.

Nah, i don't agree with your restriction to my assertion. Who could have thought in 1932 that jews were going to be exterminated in Europe 10 years later without any possibility to stand up a fight ? No one could have and those who had enough vision (or paranoia) to see it were not listened to. So even if not everyone on Earth hates jews, they can one day, especially in our troubled times in which some poll among europeans puts Israel as the #1 danger for world's safety. I understand that it's a "second degree" danger but if, as i suspect, people get too scared, they might back down and sell Israel's security in the false belief that it'll spare them. There's no place on Earth where anyone is perfectly safe, of course, not even Israel to jews but if people migrate there from France in spite of bombing threats, it's just because if you can't have 100% security, at least you want the possibility to fight back. That's what Israel is about and what would make antijudaic to forfeit this right. This said, the factual inferiority by opposition to legal almost egality in Israel of arabs is justifiable in the current situation. I remember 2 israelis caught in the territories and put in a jail there being stoned and beaten to death, then thrown out the window by an angry palestinian mob. Would 2 other israelis get lost today, the same thing would happen. So please don't ask for something arabs from the territories can't and won't provide. You're better off being an arab in Israel than in any arab country. The day the reciprocity will be true, we'll discuss the matter of egality. I'm not going to respect very high standards not even respected in France (hidden racism toward anything non-white) or western countries just to win your approval. There may be a dust in my eye but there is dust all over the place and some even have straws up to the brain !

"I am against Judeophobia. I am against hating Jews for being Jews. This is a mental morbidity, which is disgusting, odious and repulsive. Khalid, are you really against Judeophobia? How then, do you explain the plethora of anti-Semitic statements you have made in the past, including the following, which you made in an autobiographical article posted at http://www.p4pd.org/lifestories1.html : "That Star of David, which we are told is originally a religious symbol, symbolized hate and evil. Even today, I couldn't imagine a more hateful sign."

Jane, why do you resort to calling Andy Murray names? Because he defends a position you disagree with? You are the perfect example of the whole debate here: People who use names and labels instead of debating with facts. If you can't form an argument, stay out of the debate. Don't resort to name-calling out of anger and frustration.

Howdy Khalid; I'm afraid that your figures have been grossly inflated. There have not been ten thousand homes destroyed by the IDF. Only buildings that have been used by enemy combatants to further their hostile actions have been destroyed which is legitimate under the rules of war. If you don't like it, then go to Geneva and try to get the rest of the world to agree to change the laws. Two million trees? I think that the true figure is in the tens of thousands. Israel does have a legal right to requisition land (with compensation to the owners) out of military necessity during a period of armed conflict. Your argument is based on exaggeration, emotion, and morality. Sorry, but that doesn't wash legally. The organizations that you mention are all strictly anti-war peaceniks and have been crying wolf about war crimes ever since Vietnam.

What is it about North American leftist activists who are simultaneously (a) anti-Israel (b) anti-Semitic and (b) silent about the lack of rights for women and ethnic/cultural/religious minorities in Islamic countries? What accounts for this package of sentiments? Why, moreover, are they so resistent to logic, debate, reason or history?

I wonder if we'd see peace between jews and arabs if their respective religions never existed? I bet history students would see a lot fewer wars and other bad things happening to people. It's just an argument about who bloodied who's nose first, and who's right and who's wrong. Who cares?! How many people are helped by a gang of arrogant, stuck up zealots--on both sides--each claiming that they're victims of the others' oppression?

Now that the mainstream of American academia is aware of the problem the fundraisers will do the hard work of influencing the debate about Israel. It has already started with major donors objecting to anti-Semitic teaching and anti-Israel bias in the classroom and they are withholding millions in donations. Look at Columbia U. and even Harvard. On the positive side they are funding chairs that will replace the chairs currently being funded by the Saudis and the Emerates. Students who support Israel are also less afraid to speak out and have begun to organize themselves with the help of organizations such as the David Project and Campus Watch. It might have taken time but it is not too late to turn this around.

Are you one of the "shout a headline and duck for cover heroes"?

"Take the example of the late Professor Edward Said, a brilliant scholar and analyst of the plight of the Palestinians". Read Danites post117 for a good example of mendatious. Then read these accurate critiques of his shoddy so called masterpeace. urls as posted by Left but not anti zionist. http://www.geocities.com/orientalismorg/Kerr.htm http://www.secularislam.org/articles/debunking.htm I wasted good money on that junk. Hes no more than an apologist for all things Arab, and quiet frankly, whatever you say about Pipes at least he tries to be accurate. Stick to Bernard Lewis if you want a serious insight into the middle east by a genuine expert. Said is just expert at propaganda

whenever anything is said about any other people then it is investigated than action is taken..but when it is against jewish people or israel than its just talked about than swept under the rug we should stand up as ONE people and not allow this to go on and don't count on other non-jews to defend us.. it is G-D and our people who jewish people should count on..

explain to me your basis for calling the "occupation" illegal. I cant wait for you to justify your lies. B"H

Lindsey, your problem is that you take your informations from Propagandistic sources that have a clearly anti-Islamic agenda. Jews are not allowed to marry Muslim women because they don't recognize the essence of Islam. They don't recognize the validity of any revelation subsequent to that of Moses.And they don't respect the Prophet Muhammed and the Quran. However, Muslims consider the Israelites' traditions as an integral part of our own traditions. The message of Moses is part of Islam, but Islam is never part of Judaism. When a Muslim utters the name of Moses, the Prophet, he or she says "May peace be upon him." I don't know what Jews say when they utter the name of Muhammed, or the Prophet Jesus, may peace be on them both. But I understand that some Jews have caricatured the Prophet of Islam as a pig writing the Quran. As for Jizya, it is a poll tax, which is far less than taxes paid by Muslims. Do you know what the word Dhimma or Dhimmi means? How can you pretend to be a scholar on the status of ahlu al Kitab in Islam when you don't know the basics? Do you know that Jews were the riches sgments of the population under the Islamic states of the past? as for Jews were not allowed to ride horses, this is nonsense. It is certainly not part of the Sharia. Maybe some crazy local ruler did it one time, but it can't be generalized. If Jews were not allowed to ride horses, then how come sallahuddin (salladin) adopted Moshe Ben Maymon as his personal doctor? And how come the Muslim state in Southern Spain had Jewish ministers and high-ranking officials? How come the King of Morroco is having a top Jewish advisor? How come Jews excelled in many fields in Iraq and Egypt and North Africa? Do you remember Laila Murad, Daoud Husni...?

Please stop already with this damn penny book psychologising. It is soooo tired and overwrought. If you want to know what a sensible response is to my posting then look to RJ on #160. Now that is cogent and to the point. But lets lay off this big strong man whose ready to response with a kick in the mouth to silence those you feel are weak. It's so reflexive and irrational

"Jabob Blues, you are not behaving on this forum as honest and serious people should. You spread disinformation, indulge in name-calling, feature canards, half-truths, and outright falsehoods"...WHAT A CHUTZPAH. 1. Your weekly assertions that ashkenazis are khazaris,despite all reputable scholars dismissing this slander as pure fabrication and despite all tha genetics research which provides incontrovertable proof that ashkenazis are of semitic origin.Is that not an outright falsehood? 2. Your regular libels against orthodox jews and Talmud with such pearls as"jews regard gentiles as wood hewers and water carriers" or "the talmud says a Gentile is no better than sub-human"... Is that not mendatious? Are you Judeophobic? 3. Your habit of quoting Israel Shahak, as a reputable source for your vile insults.Despite him being one of the most anti-semitic and disreputble commentators you could find. Nothing rational, nothing logical... you are simply not serious. By the way, have you read Massouds(of Nablus) comments #9 Today(What to do with Ahmadinejad forum) on your behaviour. He says you are an extremist and you distort the truth.He's right.

Larry, you are speaking to your victims as if talking to some naive Americans who would shake at the very idea of criticzing Israel and her brutal treatment of the Palestinian people. You are lumping a lot of things (suicide bombers, Netanyahu, the holocaust, anti-Semitism, etc.) because you are not mentally prepared or willing to face the brutal ugliness of Israeli crimes. The holocaust and anti-Semtisim and all the pogroms in the world don't give the Jews the right to torment, hmiliate, savage, and murder Palestinians and steal their homeland. We will not accept the unacceptable even if you screen all these movies and "documentaries" a million times. Israel is an aggressor, and aggression is wrong. Aggression doesn't become right just because the aggressor had been attacked and oppressed by a third party. If you want to avenge the holocaust, go to Germany, not to Hebron, Nablus and Gaza where your soldiers are playing cowboys and Indians with our school children. As to anti-Semitism, I've already made my position crystal clear. I am against Judeophobia. I am against hating Jews for being Jews. This is a mental morbidity, which is disgusting, odious and repulsive. However, Israel and her supportes should think twice before evoking anti-Semitism to justify Israeli crimes in Palestine or ward off criticisms of the nefarious occupation of my country and my people. finally, as to the suicide bombers, I believe it was Israel who was first and foremost responsible for pushing the Palestinians to do these crazy things. Israel can't push us to the edge of Auschwitz adn then shout, like stupid kids, Hamas! terror! Suicide bombings!! I wonder, after 59 years of oppression that transcends reality, who wouldn't become a suicide bomber. Israel has succeeded in making all Palestinians potential suicide bombers. Blame yourself, don't blame us. Besides, don't you Jew glorify Samson, probably the first suicide bomber? Larry, remember this American verses: I and the public know, what all school children learn, those to whom evil is done, do evil in return. You started the whole thing, and we had to defend ourselves, We shall never ever walk meekly into your slaughter house. Leave our country, leave us alone, stop your racist crimes against our people, and there will be no violence, no suicide bombing... there will be peace.

Larry, you are speaking to your victims as if talking to some naive Americans who would shake at the very idea of criticzing Israel and her brutal treatment of the Palestinian people. You are lumping a lot of things (suicide bombers, Netanyahu, the holocaust, anti-Semitism, etc.) because you are not mentally prepared or willing to face the brutal ugliness of Israeli crimes. The holocaust and anti-Semtisim and all the pogroms in the world don't give the Jews the right to torment, hmiliate, savage, and murder Palestinians and steal their homeland. We will not accept the unacceptable even if you screen all these movies and "documentaries" a million times. Israel is an aggressor, and aggression is wrong. Aggression doesn't become right just because the aggressor had been attacked and oppressed by a third party. If you want to avenge the holocaust, go to Germany, not to Hebron, Nablus and Gaza where your soldiers are playing cowboys and Indians with our school children. As to anti-Semitism, I've already made my position crystal clear. I am against Judeophobia. I am against hating Jews for being Jews. This is a mental morbidity, which is disgusting, odious and repulsive. However, Israel and her supportes should think twice before evoking anti-Semitism to justify Israeli crimes in Palestine or ward off criticisms of the nefarious occupation of my country and my people. finally, as to the suicide bombers, I believe it was Israel who was first and foremost responsible for pushing the Palestinians to do these crazy things. Israel can't push us to the edge of Auschwitz adn then shout, like stupid kids, Hamas! terror! Suicide bombings!! I wonder, after 59 years of oppression that transcends reality, who wouldn't become a suicide bomber. Israel has succeeded in making all Palestinians potential suicide bombers. Blame yourself, don't blame us. Besides, don't you Jew glorify Samson, probably the first suicide bomber? Larry, remember this American verses: I and the public know, what all school children learn, those to whom evil is done, do evil in return. You started the whole thing, and we had to defend ourselves, We shall never ever walk meekly into your slaughter house. Leave our country, leave us alone, stop your racist crimes against our people, and there will be no violence, no suicide bombing... there will be peace.

I appreciate your reply to what you addressed as my post. No, I have never used the word reparations (we know what we left behind in a hurry). My intent is never to try to outdo the demands from the Arabs. I was answering the very insiduous insuniation that Israel is a remnant of a colonial times. The impression for this sentiment rests on the fact that the Israeli "Kova Tumbel" (Ephraim Kishon Prototype of Israeli, is a freakled young boy with roumd face and bleu eyes- not that I don't have bleue eyes- and looks like a French kid)representing the whole of Israel population. Now, by quoting Jean Genet, I eant to try and extend the perameters of the debate and it includes telling the narrative of over half of the population whose origines is in places other than the Western civilisation. My insistence in transparency lay on the fact that by being too intellectual, you become too inarticulate, and in this case thruth has to be told as who makes up the Israel Nation. I hope, I don't sound anti, which is never my position, I don't want to come up with strategies that have no sure effect at the end of the road. The Article is talking, amoung other things, the Israel is a colonial power, and as such it could be compared to Britain, Spain, Protugal South Africa9 before0, and obviously France. My answer is to look around and see the great contribution that the Sefarads-Mizrahis to Israeli vision and life, and especially in the light of the recent political events (upheaval?!) that will transfer totally the way the "intellectual and leftist world" will consider Israel. That was my intent.

Andy Murray and his brother Stephen Murray are representatives of "Israel Watch" an anti-Semitic hate-site. They are professional anti-Jewish agitators who visit Haaretz daily to influence the debates on Israel.

Although anti-Semitism was always part of US society, especially out of big metropolitan areas, now, due to 'kommunization' of American society this burp of 'proletariat' oriented lib. culture created perfect condition for development of this fungus. Enough to take a look on what is happening in Duke University, where it?s notoriously anti-Semitic President promoting palestinian propaganda by means of seminars and conferences with anti Israeli agenda. Under cover of freedom of speech propaganda of anti-Semitic ideas is alive today through American fascists. Unfortunately here is nothing to do with it. Once gins had mutated they will stay aberrated forever.

Lindsey to help you sleep at night. Answer to your question, why do I accept Israel? Certainly not because G-d/God/Allah asked me to or command me to do. I accept us as a reality, beside, you had a very tough time in Christian Europe. Answer to your second question as to what I mean? Of course if Arab countries were democracies we will not have such stupid, incompetent and failed leadership that allowed Israel to come into being in the first place and second, it was Arab failure that made Israel win the 67 war. If the Arab world was or is a democracy, Israel will not get away with murder. I hope this answered your question. Don't worry, we are not out to throw you into the sea and we are here to stay, with you or without you. It is your choice.

Before writing this post i thought about arguing with you, but then changed my mind and here is why: i feel sorry for you and people of your ilk because you were trained to respond to a certain stimulus. When you hear such words as Jews, Israel etc.. mentioned somewhere your attack mode kicks in and there is nothing, in your view of the world, that the Jewish people can do right. However, when it comes to anybody else (except the Jews of course) a tremendous transformation takes place: there is a new docile, slavishly looking for any kind of hint from the rest of the world, breed that knows no bounds in rolling over and doing everything in his power to make them love you. Your whole appearance says: kick me, kill me, or any Jew for that matter, if that's going to help you love me. I, on the other hand, don't want the world to love me -i'm sick and tired of that kind of "love" - all i want is respect and you won't get any if you don't respect yourself. Like i said, i pity the dwarfs barking at elephants.

The term 'Anti-Semitismus' originated in Germany in the 19th century, and was designed to give a scientific racial basis to Jew-hatred, which was called 'Judenhass' and sounded too pejorative to the 'enlightened' ear of that day. Nowadays, Arabs dodge the accusation of being 'anti-Semitic' by claiming to be the true Semites, which is a ficticious ethnic or racial grouping and non-existent historically. The term 'anti-Semitism' should be replaced with terms like 'Jew-hatred', 'anti-Jewishness', or 'Judeophobia'. The term 'anti-Semitic' should be replaced with 'anti-Jewish', and 'anti-Semite' should be replaced with 'Jew-hater'. It's time to call a spade a spade, and have done with this bogus 'Semitic' milarkey.

Andy Murray on the Jewish State "Zionists want Israel to remain a state with a Jewish majority at any cost. As long as the Arabs have a higher birth rate than the Jews, they will be viewed by many Zionists as a `demographic threat` regardless of what they do. Security is used as an excuse to cover up the racist nature of this goal of `Jewish majority at any cost`.

I came to Israel for my Master's degree in Middle East History to avoid what I would call an unbalanced education offered on the subject in American institutions. You may be interested to note that Tel Aviv University's program is quite balanced and not a hot-bed of irrational zealots. You are correct to point out that in the US, the Jewish Studies Department is seperate from the ME History department. To a degree, I feel this is counter-productive for Jews who seek balance in ME studies in America as they can hide behind their own narrative, taught by their own professors. You write that, "since the Middle East is overwhelmingly Arab and Muslim, that is the general focus of study and the Israel/Palestine conflict plays a prominent role in contemporary Middle Eastern history in so far as this is a central issue to the history of the region." This is problematic. The proportion of time spent at American institutions discussing the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is far too large. Modern Middle Eastern history began in 1798; the new Zionists arrived on the scene in 20th century. Many topics seem to go missing as a result of this myopic concentration. A few examples: The institutions that Arab states created in the wake of their independence has little to do with Israel. Syrian involvement in Lebanon from 1975 had little to do with Israel. The Iranian Revolution(s) had nothing to do with Israel. The inter-Arab system has something to do with Israel, however, the way the system works is not a result of Israel's existence. There are many good historians (Sela, Maddy-Weitzman, Seale) who explore inter-Arab relations. The job of the historian is to have a continuous dialogue with the available sources and to explain what happened. The findings must also be put into historical context. That means, for example, when reading about the 1948 war, one should read the Israeli establishment historians (Kimche, Lorch, etc.) along with the new revisionists (Shlaim, Morris, etc.) along with the Palestinian accounts (Sayigh; Ahmed, Walid, and Rashid Khalidi; Muslih, Fawaz Turki). That is how one can truly explain what happened. Unfortunately, this does not occur at American institutions. My undergraduate course in the Arab-Israeli conflict consisted of only Palestinian accounts and Israeli revisionist historians. There was no balance and it was void of context. You mention, "the late Professor Edward Said, a brilliant scholar and analyst of the plight of the Palestinians." It's true he was brilliant, but he is not a historian. There is a difference between political activists and propagandists on the one hand, and serious historians on the other. There are many brilliant Palestinian historians; Edward Said's "The Question of Palestine" is not a serious historical work. Rashid Khalidi has made tremendous contributions to the field of ME history (Origins of Arab Nationalism, Palestinian Identity), however when he takes that hat off and comes to the university I attended in the States to give a speech about how "Israelis are ethnically cleansing the Palestinians;" and how "Israel is an apartheid state building an apartheid wall;" and that "Zionists are racists;" he loses the shiny luster of the historian engaged in explaining what happened, and instead becomes a propagandist. This is all the more problematic when he is elevated to such a level at Columbia. As for "a concerted effort to see that the Palestinian narrative is identified as anti-Semitic and illegitimate," rest assured it is not working. But this effort does not absolve American universities from pursuing balance and context in their studies.

Yeah, the Middle Eastern courses may be biased and anti-Israel. But who cares what these mislead students think? they will not change anything. The people that live in Israel/Palestine only know the real situation and can change the conflict. At the end of the day, the U.S. government decides on it's relations and policies in Middle East and Israel. The haters can say what they want, but they'll be ignored.

Larry: It is my opinion that when the Israelis came to Israel, they sat around, didn't dig cisterns & wells, relying on free-running springs. When the drought came they were unprepared, so they abandoned Israel and sought food & free-board in Egypt. The hardworking Canaanite people entered Israel as the Israelis left for Egypt. They dug wells & cisterns. If you have been to Israel, you can still see many of them. The Canaanites made Israel flow as a land of milk and honey as later the spies reported to Jonah. In Egypt, once again shiftless Israelis sat around, didn't want to work but wanted to eat & chase the Egyptian girls who were semites not Arabs in those days. Finally the Pharoah put them to work to earn their bread and they whined and moaned constantly because they didn't like to work. By the time of the Exodus, the Egyptian people, not army, were glad to see the Israelis go. They cross the sea, get into the wildnerness, Moses goes up to the mountain, and once again these shiftless people make a golden calf/bull, get drunk & break all the 10 Commandments before Moses even brought them to the children of Israel. After their God tells Moses,he can't enter into Israel for this, Joshua becomes leader. When the spies came back reporting the new wealth of Israel created by the Canaanites hard work, the lazy Israelis were furious. Thus the killing of all Canaanites-men, women, children & babies; the killing of all their livestock and the burning of all their dwellings began. Not because their God told them to. All Gods be they Islamic, Jewish or Christian don't hear and don't care. No, the genocide by Joshuas army was due to their anger that the Canaanites made Israel bloom and years before their laziness made them leave Israel. If the Canaanites were alive today, Larry, should they have built a Canaanite holocaust memorial and make every foreign dignitary who came understand that Joshua & his Jews slaughtered all the Canaanites and this is the reason for the Canaanite holocaust memorial. On Purim, Jews celberate Book of Esther and make Na'ahman ears cookies with poppy seeds. These are some of the reasons why Jews are disliked throughout time, Larry.

This past year I was enroled at a Canadian University where my mid east politics professor (who carried a Hizbollah key chain & kept telling his students that Hizbollah "get things done") sent out lecture notes describing Israel as an "expansionist colonialist settler state"; argued that locating and destroying tunnels used for delivering weapons to militants was propaganda, (he said that if he were the IDF commander he would simply fire the idiots in the IDF who couldn't stop the tunnels); subscribed to the biblical and archaeological minimalist claims of luminaries like Whiteham et al; argued that Norman Finkelstein made valid points about Jews' exploiting the Shoah; held up a copy of Saint Said's 'Orientalism' in class and said: "this is what most academics believe" and then, ostensibly to present the other point of view, held up a copy of a Raphael Israeli book from the late sixties and told the class that it was "ethnocentric and racist"; refused to discuss Islamism in class, as that was religious territory not appropriate for political science, but spent a lecture discussing Islamophobia; pontificated about Hamas merely being a social movement like environmentalism or feminism; told me that: "You Jews have the luxury of adopting a national argument when it suits you, but when you are challenged on national claims (presumably by antizionist minimalist Biblical scholars), you conveniently jump to a faith based argument, whereas Arabs and Muslims can't avail themselves of such a tactical (and presumably inauthentc) luxury"; and finally, claimed that he wasn't biased at all. This is the kind of "unbiased" education about the ME dispensed at Canadian, UK, French, Italian & US universities these days.

Middle Eastern courses try to demonize Israel and make it seem like the Arab states are the poor little victims. In reality, the Arab states have been U.S.'s enemies for decades and Israel has been U.S's ally. The anti-Israel haters are obsessed, and ignore real problems in their own country. Let them speak about Iraq and many other problems around the Arab world. You guys will always disapprove of Israel, nothing will satisfy you. Get a life.

It is isn't the Israelis that are running the slave trade in sub-Sahara Africa or killing the non-Muslim population in the Sudan or running the pirate trade off the coast of Somalia. How come no criticism of those atrocities in the Arab press?

Around Houston about the only "activist" students are Young Republicans and the religious right. And the religious right is not antiSemitic, they just hope that Israel will bring on the second coming by being in a nuclear war.

Peter Should we be surprised at this juncture about the Saudis'as benefactors to promote their agendas? Very obvious what their intentions are and have been always. S

The whole mess will be settled in 2047 when most of the oil reserves in the Middle East will be exhausted and after a series of conflicts. There should be a focus on the less than humane treatment of refugees in camps in Lebanon, Jordan, some of the Gulf states. Many of the refugees want citizenship in their so-called host countries where they can at least share in oil wealth and for a passport. No, they just fester and the few fortunates who can get an education manage to migrate to the West. The Israelis aren't the only malfactors in the region. Iran hasn't made life easier for anybody by its chest beating barbarisms in Holocaust denial.

Instead of arrogantly provoking people, try getting a dictionary yourself. These are some definitions of SEMITIC people from different sources... Just google it! SEMITE: A member of a group of Semitic-speaking peoples of the Near East and northern Africa, including the Arabs, Arameans, Babylonians, Carthaginians, Ethiopians, Hebrews, and Phoenicians. -a member of a group of Semitic-speaking peoples of the Middle East and northern Africa -The word "Semitic" is an adjective derived from Shem, one of the three sons of Noah in the Bible (Genesis 5.32, 6.10, 10.21)... In Genesis 10:21-31 Shem is described as the father of Aram, Asshur, and others: the Biblical ancestors of the Aramaeans, Assyrians, Babylonians, Chaldeans, Sabaeans, and Hebrews, etc., all of whose languages are closely related; the language family containing them was therefore named Semitic by linguists. However, the Canaanites and Amorites also spoke a language belonging to this family, and are therefore also termed Semitic in linguistics.

Mr.Freedman You are quite right.Also,ethnicity,religion or anything else has no room in the Academic System.It is not an ideal situation, and should not have to merge at all.It must be purely independent from these bsurdities. S

Ever hear the saying "two wrongs dont make a right?" There's also another saying that rings true here: "Those to whom evil is done often do evil in return." Think about that for a while, then think of the first genocide of the century what the Armenians suffered from for starting in late 1800's. When they ended up in lebanon by the hundreds of thousand starving and peniless, they integrated into Lebanese society and became a positive influenece with in. They didnt plant their flag and declare it the new armenia, they didnt form gangs and brutalized the lebanese driving them from their homes. Palestine gave you refuge, you should have been gratefull. Heres another saying: You give them an inch they take a mile. Im sure ur familiar with that one....

Yaakov, what are you talking about?!? When did I ever suggest banning anyone from a university for anything? Why would I think someone anti-semitic for supporting a two state solution when I support it myself? Can you point to something I wrote that suggested these things? What are you thinking?? Why are you characterizing me this way???

Lindsey You have amplified the situation quite correctly.You agree with "their likes" fine,when it comes to the obvious truth the situations are reversed. Therefore, actions must be taken to rid the prevailing state of affairs that continue in the academic circles whether in the US or here in the UK. S

I must protest. I go to the University of Texas at Austin, formerly the largest college in the US and made up of a Democratic majority. I have compared Israel to Nazi Germany. So what? I compare the USA to Nazi Germany all the time. Does that make me, by default, anti-Christian? Of course not, but one could argue that's because the US is not a Christian state. I can't help it if Israel is a Jewish state, if it was a Christian state I would still compare it to Nazi Germany and expect to be called anti-Christian for doing so. I definitely do not think that Israel is as bad as Nazi Germany, but if parallels are found, they should be exposed. Even if you agree that Becker's Columbia University example displays true anti-semitism (I don't), it's one example. Earlier this year, a Jewish student was walking back to his Jewish fraternity when he was savagely brutalized by Neo-Nazis (not UT students). THAT is real anti-Semitism, and it is despicable. As one poster stated below, calling any criticism of Israel anti-Semitic trivializes this kind of sick behavior.

I've heard this claim made before, too, and it's an incorrect assessment of what academia is about. Higher education's mission is not to serve partisan agendas--left or right, pro-Israel or anti-Israel/pro-Arab. Academia, first and foremost, is a place for education. Its mission is to promote critical inquiry, responsible scholarship, and the open exchange and debate of ideas. It should not be used to counter the prevailing ideology with an ideology of its own.

I get it now. We should all be scared, very, very scared. Gangs of palestinians and pro-palestinians roam through the halls of American universities, intimidating Jewish students and preventing the expression of pro-Israeli views. What a ton of nonsense! You know, there are some groups in America that have suffered some serious discrimination here--African Americans, Native Americans, etc. This silly little conversation gets in the way of any real examination of the groups who are really oppressed in the U.S.

Howdy Johanes; By what law is the Israeli "occupation" illegal? If you try to use UNSCR 242 as your basis, I will point out that Israel is not required to withdraw to the Green Line, that the West Bank is "disputed" territory not "occupied" territory until such time as a mutually agreed upon border can be determined, and that the condition "Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;" must be met prior to any Israeli partial withdrawl from the West Bank. Perhaps Israel is "occupying" an as-yet-to-be-determined portion of the West Bank, but so far, there is nothing illegal about it.

Thorough investigations by international human rights groups, includign Israel's own B'tselem, have concluded that the Israeli army has been indulging in war crimes and crimes against humanity in Palestine. There are a million testimonies to that effect. The Israeli army destroyed more than 10 thosuand homes in Gaza and the West Bank and destroyed over two million trees...This widespread destruction prompted Shulamit Aloni, a former education minister, to say in a Ma'ariv article two years ago that "we Israelis have become a Barbarian people." This criminality also prompted Jerald Kaufman, a Jewish British MP, to remark that "Ariel Sharon has made the star of David look like the Swastica of Hitler." Jeff, you are talking from America I suppose. You have no right to spread lies and canards about things happenning in our neighborhoods. Ok, you support Israel, I don't care. But don't lie by claiming that Israel only targets hostile buildings...Israel target civilians, homes, trees, roads, farms, boarding schools..Israel has been launching classical war on civilians...don't try to deny the obvious...and don't tell me that you are right and Btselem, Amnesty, Human Rights Watch, Gedeon Levy, Amira Hass, Akiva Aldar, Dani Robenstein, Ha'aretz, Guardian, CNN, are wrong...

Coming from you, who distorts history, fabricates "facts" of his own to support his claims, and never backs up his assertions with documentation. You are the last person to accuse anyone of spreading disinformation. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Your premise is only true if everyone is opposed to there being a state of Israel. You will find if you bother to read the comments posted on this board that many of us are quite willing to accept there being a state of Israel, but not willing to accept it if there being a state of Israel entails gentiles being designated as inferior. We will be quite happy to accept an Israel in which gentiles have the same legal status Jews have in the USA.

Mustapha you are indeed correct. The people that have an unchangeable unwavering determination to blame Islam and Judaism for the evils in the world will never switch their opinions. However, I don't think that when Muslim women in North America wearing head scarves are pelted with eggs people should just stand around and watch. I don't think that we as a society should allow this behaviour to become acceptable just because "Muslims and Arabs have learned to live with it". In Toronto after 9/11 there were countless instances of Muslims being harassed as though they supported and funded the terrorists. They were innocent. Therefore why is it that all Jews need to pay the price because the State of Israel "occupies" "Palestinian lands". That is what Anti Semitism is, not justifiable because of a political belief but that all through time immortal Jews have been targeted and hated. Long before Israel was created, long before there was a United States of America, long before there was a Jesus Christ!!!! Can you explain that to me???

Franzen. The more you write the more I find it difficult to believe that you are who you say you are. Nevertheless you are free to "spew" the same rhetoric over and over and over again for all of us to read. I don't know why you get the same airtime to just repeat your constantly unchanging unwavering opinion. You naver acknowledge the problems or how to deal with them. You just offer your simplistic approach to a "two State" solution but never how to get there. Why don't you spell out the steps that should take place to get to this "end result"?? As for speaking out about the "illegal occupation" it seems to be a one sided situation. Whenever there is an opportunity for serious debate in the University crowd, the Palestinian viewpoints are always enforced by a large crowd of people prepared to use violence to be heard. Yet when Pro Israeli groups wish to take the podium they are pelted with eggs and rocks?? How is that an intellectual way to negotiate and conduct useful discussions on the subject to sway world opinion in favour of a two state solution??

I have mixed feelings toward bringing up that part of the story of sefaradim drove out of their countries (as happened to my family) because it would be again conceding to the rhetoric of the poor victim. In a way, I'm thinking that i won't complain, nor demand vain outrage from goodie-goodies and material reparations for what happened to my family. That way i'll be in a better position to say to arabs from the territories : "hey, it happened to me too and i'm not complaining so do the same, get over it, you've got enough sq.meters as it is and very little accomplishment on them". More generally, I have a double goal here : have things my way on the matter of acceptation of Israel and its safety but also discredit the underdog support reflex. This second cause i'm fighting for is essential if the world wants to adress future crisis with serenity and efficiency. It's a medium to long-term investment, likely to be challenged i'm sure, but who'll bring very profitable results for humanity.

Campuses have become a balance to the US political scene where everyone is afraid to criticize Israel for fear of being labeled anti-semitic. US politicians quake in their boots at the thought of crossing AIPAC and the Jews. The American-Israeli machine will attack any politician who dares to criticize Israel. Of course, the result is that the criticism goes on behind closed doors where it grows and festers. Jews seem blind to this.

Jabob Blues, you are not behaving on this forum as honest and serious people should. You spread disinformation, indulge in name-calling, feature canards, half-truths, and outright falsehoods. You calim that Muslims raise Jewish orphans as Muslims? When was that? Aren't there Jewish institutions to claim these orphans? Besides, if we suppose that it happened once, how should the child be raised? Should an adopting Muslim family bring in a special Rabbi to teach the child Judaism? Also, don't Israeli Jewish couples "purchase" kids from South America and elsewhere and raise them as Jews? Don't Christians do the same? Are you Islamophobic? If, so we don't care..., for you shall be consumed by your own hatred...Fire consumes itself if it has nothing to consume. Listen, I will from now on refrain from responding to your screeds, as I had done with a few persons on this forum. You are simply not serious, What comes out of you is nothing but mendacious defensive reflexes...nothing rational, nothing logical...

In those American universities Middle East Studies departments are seperate from Jewish Studies departments. Typically, since the Middle East is overwhlemingly Arab and Muslim, that is the general focus of study and the Israel/Palestine conflict plays a prominant role in contemporary Middle Eastern history in so far as this is a central issue to the history of the region. Within Middle East Studies departments one will find a high percentage of Arab professors who have a definite point of view on the Israel?Palestine issue. In the Jewish Studies departments or in those few which have an Israeli Studies department one will find mostly Jewish professors with a different view of Zionism and the history of the conflict. But my experience has shown that most faculty are open to other views, critical, but open and they urge their students to view a question from all perspectives even when their own views are clearly identified with a certain narrative. This charge of anti-semitism as a pervasive force on American campuses is overblown. Take the example of the late Professor Edward Said, a brilliant scholar and analyst of the plight of the Palestinians. To charge that this man was an anti-semite or that he tolerated anti-semitic sentiments in his classroom is nothing short of slander. He worked ceaselessly for the cause of Palestinians (he himslef was from a Jerusalem family)but also against racism of any sort, including anti-semitism. His collaborative work with Daniel Barenboim in developing musical talent among Israeli and palestinian youth is well known. Zionist organisations in the US are concerned with the growing identification with the palestinian narrative because university campuses are one of the few places where it can be aired and heard openly. As for attempts to attack the other side, I think it is quite the reverse of what is reported in this half baked article. One needs only to take the film "Columbia Unbecoming, produced by a Zionist activist group out of Boston, The David Project. The film was a scurillous attack on faculty from Columbia's Middle East Studies department, alleging intimidation of Jewish students in the classroom, outrageous comments made by faculty. An ad hoc committee set up to investigate the charges found most of them baseless and the one example that was seen to be problematic was in the grey area. Campus Watch and other zionist groups have been documented as having sent in agents provacateurs into the classroom, without the permission of the professor, to disrupt the class or video the professor. The moment one criticises Israel one is attacked-anti-semite, anti-semite. Voices are heard and complaints are registererd, careers are threatened. This is what is happening across American universities today- a concerted effort to see that the Palestinian narrative is identified as anti-semitic and illegitimate.

Franzen on the Gaza evacuation Johanes Franzen, Stockholm: "Drag them out by their curlies and prosecute those that break the law."

"Miss Muslima", Jew haters come in all shapes sizes colours and denominations. The Cathoic Church was the largest proponent of Jew hating by teaching their students that the Jews killed Jesus. People like Mel Gibson just come along and reinforce lies with a well paid for movie. Who blames Muslims for hating Jews anyway?? I thought that Muslims just hate Zionists, not all Jews??? Or am I incorrect in that assumption??

I will get back to you later, Regards Danite

I love the hyperbolic, fatuous nature of your commentary. Let me see if I understand this correctly: 1 You agree that Anti Semitism does exist and condemn it. 3 Cheers for that!! 2 You believe that Israel and its supporters are "blowing" the serious degree to which Anti Semitism has risen to a non existent level 3 Judeophobia does not exist in the English language....Nice try!!! 4 Yes you hate all that is being done to the Palestinians every single day...Naturally, otherwise you wouldn't be writing your crap on this website every day. 5 We don't hate Jews for being Jews. Anti Semites hate Jews for being Jews. Anti Semites are people that Zionists hate for criticizing Israel. HIghly intelligent illogical commentary. That is a paradox, intelligent and illogical at the same time??? That can't be possible. So we are to understand that Anti Semites just hate Jews plain and simple. They can sit in a boat doing nothing all day long but fish, and they would be considered Jews that are hated by Anti Semites. Zionists hate Anti Semites for criticizing Israel. Peace loving Jews on the other hand are "our friends, neighbours and natural partners for peace". So KHalid my wise poster...How do your Qassam missiles, suicide bombers and other "wonderfully helpless KILLERS" differentiate between a "peace loving Jew that is your neighbour and partner in peace" and one that is a "Zionist that hates Anti Semistes for criticizing Israel". CAn you once and for all answer a very difficult and probably impossible question with some reason and logic rather than more rambling and dictionary words??? Can you counter an intelligent argument with facts and without hiding in a cave and hoping the challenge will go away?? Your very comments have dug you deep this time!!! You have formally come out on this website once and for all and stated that you like peace loving Jews as your friends, neighbours and partners for peace. I am a peace loving Jew!!! I am the product of two parents that survived the "Non Existant and Totally Blown out of Proportion Holocaust". My father didn't wake up every night screaming while he watched his entire family get gassed and shot. He didn't have a number on his forearem like a piece of cattle. He just woke up one day and made it all up!!! RIGHT KHALID!!!!???? The fact that I went to a school that had Jews and non Jews and had the Catholics waiting for me after school to pick on me because they somehow knew I was Jewish??? They had a complete dossier on my political aspirations at the age of 8, and that I wanted Israel (which in those days was only 18 years young, to kill Palestinians. By the way if you do the math you will see that it was prior to the Six day war, which the Arabs of course won. That is why the State of Israel ended up with Gaza and the West Bank. So Khalid I know first hand what Anti Semitism is all about. The name calling, the focus on ones appearance as being stereotypical, all Jews are rich, all Jews own the world, my dad doesn't have a job because of the Jews. I have heard it all Khalid!!! And I have heard it long before your Arab money poisoned the world by placing students in the midst of universities that foment more hateful garbage on a daily basis. Just look at how powerless Canadian authorities were to stop a violent protest at Concordia University by pro Palestinian factions when Netanyahu came there to speak. Had the Jewish students done this with Yasser Arafat, the king of all terrorists, the Jews would be condemned as supressing his right to free speech. But when the shoe is on the other foot and an Israeli official comes to speak in civilzed country like Canada a riot breaks out?? So you are going to tell me that this is also a figment of my imagination??? I think not, I know not.

This is not true. In fact, in my experience, there is a very thin line between anti-Israel sentiment and anti-semitism. This is especially the case when criticism of Israel is not restricted to specific policies but leads to questions about Israel's very right to exist. When postcolonialist language is used, it is not just to critique particular Israeli policies, but to delegitimize Israel as another manifestation of Western colonialism. And when anti-semitic references are used in protests against Israeli policies, then the line between valid criticism of Israeli policy and anti-semitism blur quite easily. It's a very thin line, and one that is not observed as often as you might like to think. This has been my experience, at any rate.

May God bless Israel and what it does to people under its control.

hey, can you answer my questions in #41? i genuinely want to know.

Xenophobia is a socio-cultural problem, the infected persons are out of the system and it does not matter how they paint themselves "political". The progressive scene was overrun by fascistioid elements not because of a "direct result" of world-events [11/09, IntifadaII, Iraq-war]. The desease uses these events to grow in any direction. The game of "good poor conservatives vs bad antisemitic leftists" is the athmosphere the deseases wants. Not bad arabs buyed them, they were culturally infected already, as much as the american conservatives were infected with their anti-black/arab/latino. Look at the "New-Orleans-complex". Yesterday the former rear admiral and red cross leading conservative resigned. Larry Summers [representing the american uni-system and education in general and the unleading conservatives] is not only too late, he is responsible. He has done nothing against xenophiabia for years and now the problem turns to the bad side [for him]. The americans did nothing and now they behave as predicted. But you can not solve the problem with a witch-hunt. The article here is important, because you must know what happens. But its too late for it. I can remember very well when the problem started and that only private individuals worked against it. Now the institution finally detected it! December 2005. Wow! One example: When Mr. Foxman himself appeared here for Q&A last year, I wanted a comment from him. About the thousand of antisemitic hate-crimes in the progressive scene. About the mass wave in the internet created on US-soil. About the pre-election influence. And what he wants to do against it. The answer was... nothing. He even was so nice to americans to speak about a decrease of antisemitic incidents. Thank you for that help. All parties, orgs and alomst all leaders of the US did not use the peaceful times of the 90ties after the breakdown of the big enemy USSR to do their homework. Homework like rebuilding the educational system. And need that if you want to beat xenophobia. Its the first step. Another first step would be the resigning of Summers. Because he failed to figth xenophobia in the houses he is responsible for.

Getting rid of the fear would help in a lot of other ways too. For example, Israeli Arabs aren't out to kill you. They don't like Israel very much, because they are Palestinians and also because they can't get good jobs, and they can't get permits to build a house, and their schools are lousy, etc. Even with that they basically stick to having a protest every now and then. If they wanted to attack they would have done it already. Also, stop thinking that when some Arab woman gets pregnant it's a big conspiracy to undermine Israel. The whole idea of a demographic threat is disgusting. You might like Israel better with fewer Arabs-- OK, fine. But what are you going to do about it? Once you take action to reduce the numbers of one race, you're starting down a very dark road. Besides, if you really want to lower the Arab birthrate, educate the girls. In every country on earth, the birthrate drops when women's education increases. So if Arab girls have good schools to go to, and good jobs waiting for them when they graduate, their birthrate will drop. This has already been happening for years in Israel, even with lousy Arab schools. Even the right of return can be solved. Khalil Shikaki is a Palestinian researcher who found that only 1% of refugees want to live in Israel with Israeli citizenship. The rest will take compensation and live somewhere else. (He got beaten up for saying this.) So you're talking about maybe 50,000 people or so. This is not enough people to overwhelm Israel like everyone's afraid of. (Here's a link to a Shikaki interview-- http://www.npr.org/programs/atc/transcripts/2003/jul/030714.shikaki.html I think you're absolutely right that everyone need to understand all the terrible things that have happened to Jews. My point is that, if you let fear dictate what you do, and answer every perceived threat with panic and a gun, you end up in more trouble. Again, there's nothing unique about Israel here; Americans were so freaked out by the World Trade Center attack that we let a complete idiot talk us into a no-win quagmire in Iraq that will hurt us for the next 50 years. That brutal dispossession of the Palestinians that you talk about has caused Israel trouble for almost 60 years now. 1948 is done, but you can change what happens over the next 50 years.

Lindsey, that was a good post. No one seems to want to respond; I think most people come here to fight. One problem in the region (only one?the Palestinians have their own problems) is that Jewish history is so bad, everyone thinks they have to be always on guard. This gets you in trouble, because you treat people so badly they become what you fear. Right now Israel's doing two things in the territories. One is the settlements, which are totally unjustifiable. The military rationale for the settlements never made sense; if you need to hold onto the hilltops, why not just build army bases? Why move a bunch of civilians into a war zone? Plus Israel's army is so strong now that you don't have to worry about invasions. All the settlements do is take land that's not yours and guarantee that some of the victims will fight back. Some of them may even become suicide bombers. That doesn't mean the bombers are right, just that it will happen. The second thing going on in the territories is the fight against terror, which is legitimate. However, Israel reached a point long ago where the IDF is part of the problem. Someone in a refugee camp is planning something, so you shoot your way through town and maybe even get your man, but you've made 5 enemies in the process. There's nothing unique to Israel about this; America experienced this in Vietnam and is experiencing it now in Iraq. Perfectly good soldiers enter a situation where they can't tell who the enemy is, and they shoot too many people just to be safe, which creates more enemies. There's no way to win this war. What's keeping Israel in is fear and revenge (and fanaticism by the settlers). It would be better to withdraw and build a fence ON YOUR BORDER (if you're scared of Arabs, cutting hundreds of thousands of them off from their jobs and leaving them on your side of the wall isn't a good idea).

We also know the conservatism of Jews when it comes to marriage... Jewish women and their families prefer (if not insist) to marry Jewish partners and not any other. Muslims are no different. American and European born Jews are less stiff about it and so are Muslims. It's a matter of culture.

It's too bad that your university doesn't include English. Try a dictionary and you might learn what the term anti-semite means. And yes Palestinians are anti-semites as well as the rest of the Arab world.

khalid: im amazed you actually mentioned that Muslim men can marry Jewish women, presumably with a straight face, no less. i read about that at the same time i read that Jewish men, under Islamic rule, are NOT allowed to marry Muslim women. I also read that much of the time Jews in Muslim lands were not allowed to carry weapons, had to pay a "protection" tax that included ritual humiliation, among other special taxes, that Jews were not allowed to ride horses, had to clear the way for a Muslim, that our testimony didnt carry equal weight in court, etc etc... hey, if im wrong about this just let me know. i dont claim to be an expert on islam or Arabs. reading bernard lewis or other western academics is one thing, but hearing it from you is another. dont you realize how horrible that sounds to us? should we be grateful for this, that Muslim men can take Jewish brides, but not vice versa? do you think this makes Islam seem more appealing to us? incidentally, the talmud often expresses respect for Islam as a monotheistic religion, even more so than Christianity which seemed to flirt with polytheism. but this "people of the book" thing, its never really about truly respecting other peoples beliefs, its about the muslim versions of those beliefs and how muslims are supposed to be the fulfillment of those religions. ive seen muslims talk about how they revere Jesus as a prophet, and then a second later scoff at the belief that he was God, or the son of God. this isnt really respecting Christian beliefs. its always about your versions of the prophets, not really about our religion, or our right to believe in our own religion. so what do i care about your phrase "people of the book"? to me, it just means the Muslims see themselves as our natural rulers. ask el-birawi, he doesnt want me ask him to believe in my divine right to the land. so why should i give two cents about your so called divine rights? even though you built the al-aqsa mosque right where our temple was, precisely because our temple was there, precisely because we were the people of the book and islam wanted to claim that heritage from us. im sorry, but thats how it looks to me. if im wrong about Islam just let me know. we can exchange sources or whatever. i would love to hear a Muslim account for some of these things ive read. what is a dhimmi? what is the jizya? what rights do Jews, and other non-Muslims, have under Muslim rule? im trying to figure out if these things ive read are actually true. if you want to yell at me in private, or even respond nicely: strengthofcharacter@gmail.com

Hi Franzy, talk to me of what is going on in Norway this days,Hey Franzy?!!!!!!

The term anti Semitic has been cheapened and down graded thanks to the barks of zealots Zionists who have embarked on a process of bullying and intimidating anyone who dares to criticize the policy of the Israeli government. It does not sound as bad as it used to since it has become synonymous with supporting Israel. If opposing the Israeli policy in the occupied territories qualifies one as anti Semite then I Am the first to ask to join the club.

Were you at Concordia when the student council disbanded Hillel? (it was at Concordia wasn't it?) If so, please share your thoughts and reactions.

Good you bring up Edward Said, he was one of the biggest liers and Orwellian double speakers in history.I remeber according to him all the Arabs who had immigrated into the Mandate of Palestine in the 20s and 30sleft the Mandate in 1938.ALL of them, Vanished! Gone! Just like that!!He was a snake in the grass that one.As for the NDP one of the main reasons I dont vote for them is because I know many are totaly canadian anglo style flakes when it comes to Israel and the US.I applaud the new realism of layton and his willingness to join and work within the system and get into serious policy issues and their nitty gritty and I like the way he keeps the Liberals really Liberal.But as I said their views in the main on the US and Israel are out of step with the european social democrates, and if Svend Robinson is an example of the 'realists" then the rest of them must be floating around in that song "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds"Where plastercine porters have looking glass eyes, some speaks and you answer quite slowly , the girl with kaleidescope eyes".So yes I will be voting Liberal and in Quebec it is either the Bloc or Liberals and have the concern that this seperatist thing is not over(what a bordello if they would actually do that).I am also happy about the change in Canadain voting patterns at the UN which untill now was slavishly and passivly following the EU line, although Canada has always had a very friendly and postive relationship with Israel state to state.As long as those ghoulish conservatives dont form a minority govt and try to turn us into their version of Neo Con Canada that is already a major job done.Regards Dude and keep those good posts rolling ! LIke wheat before the sword of Joshua the enemies of Israel fall before your mighty pen!!!Reagrds Danite

Yes, Muslim men can marry Jewish women, but should a Jewish man try to marry a Muslim woman, we all know the outcome. What Khalid also tries to obscure is the practice by Muslims of taking Jewish orphans and raising them as Muslims.

If defending freedom is anti semitism, then yes I'm. If going after these people who kill, humilate, steal, bomb, and destroy civilian palestinian with thier homes is anti semitism, then yes I'm. plz end your damn prutal occupation and stop stealing our land, water, and the control of our people and thier future. and for god sake stop dumping your trash on palestinian land. keep it to your self

Howdy None; Most claims of war crimes committed by Israel simply evaporate upon close inspection. Curfews, checkpoints, searches, and building demolitions (provided that the building was used to advantage by the enemy) are perfectly legitimate under the Fourth Geneva Convention. Claims of transfering settlers to the "occupied" territories only applies to the Golan Heights but not to the West Bank as yet because the exact border between Israel and the West Bank has not been mutually agreed to. During a period of armed conflict, it is inevitable that a certain amount of "collateral damage" will take place. That is not a war crime if it was not deliberately intended to kill protected persons. This is not to say that there haven't been war crimes committed by both sides, but you need to back up the claim with the exact law being violated, show deliberate intent to target non-combatants, and get the facts of the event straight. The truth of the matter is that the IDF has committed far fewer war crimes than has the Palestinian militant groups.

What has happened is that the ME conflict has become a stage for anti-Semites. There are two results of this: 1) What starts as valid criticism of Israel becomes irrational, as we have seen many times on this forum. It becomes impossible to differentiate between criticism which is coming from anti-Semitism and criticim which comes from those who don't agree with Israel's behavior. 2) Many who support Israel see criticism of Israel as coming from anti-Semitism and therefore don't take it seriously. And the two sides move even further apart.

"I saw guns and sharp swords in the hands of young children" University students look for causes, they are "supposed" to look for causes.Of course they dont have the nerve to attack their own country anymore, are too bourgeoise to go for the marxist analysis of the class nature of their privileges and how using them re-enforces those privileges, no! gone are the guts of yesteryear! Now their is a safe way to be radical and chic and releveant, bash Israel.No problems with your own govt, no police record, no rushing to do social work and helping the poor for a year or two,no risk at all.Much of the 60s student stuff might seem naive and even laughable in parts with hindsight but they did have the courage of their convictions, they would punch it out with cops and often get their heads cracked and criminal records , they did take risks, but these ones? The sneering paasive aggressive narcisists playing at being radical, are a good reflection of the values they claim to hate.It is the Jewsih students who earn medals for bravery these days, in Quebec at Concordia a few years ago ,walking through its halls felt like being in some 70s sci -fi type scenario with walls plastered with condemnations of Professors who dared disagree with the students council soviet. Anti Israel filth posted all over the place,and once during a class I was taking( for my own interest)I hadthe nerve to call thestudent councli a "cult like Soviet of petty narcisistic dictators" Well good thing Danite is a strapping fellow!!!At Concordia the charge was led by some of the Arab students and I am sure they are doing the same elsehwere, remeber that guy realistic who is university student who thought the protocols of the elders of zion where real.Those Arab students and their dummy buddies would have been called "reactionary racists" not too long ago.

I'll tell you what's disturbing. What's disturbing and sad is that the Solidarity for Palestinian Human Rights (SPHR) group was sanctioned in my university for being accused of anti-semitism and attacking Israeli students. Guess what the whole fuss was about? The SPHR has set up a mock wall (representing the Israeli 'fence') and put images on it of Palestinian people suffering partly because of that wall and the hardships and economic impacts of this wall on Palestinian people. This wall was set up on Nov. 29th (international day for solidarity with Palestinian human rights). The SPHR was attacked vigrously upon setting up this wall and branded as "anti-semitic"! Just because they discuss a harsh truth, a reality... Anything that goes against Israel is now anti-semitic! I personally believe what happened on our campus is ANTI-PALESTINIAN and not anti-Israel. Nevertheless, Palestinians are infact SEMITES. Therefore when we say "anti-semitic" that could include discriminatory behavior against Palestinians... But since people dont realize that I will just call what happened in my university as a rotten example of anti-Palestinianism.

Speaking out against the illegal, RUTHLESS AND BRUTAL OCCUPATION is a duty for students all over the world and a guarantee for the future not to have leaders that simply ignores the issue and play footsie with the occupiers. How would it look if students didn't speak out? What future would that bring us? The higher the cost for the illegal occupation, the more willing Israel will become to end it. That isn't exactly rocket science. The two state scenario should be endorsed and vision of two democratic states living side by side in peace tought. If the two state scenario is rendered impossible by Israeli "facts on the ground" then equal rights should be fought for. What campus in this entire world would not teach equal rights as a basic fundamental right? It is refreshing to read about the new awakening on North American campuses for the Justice so long denied the Palestinian Nation.

I hear a considerable amount of anti-Israeli sentiment not only among academic circles but also in many professional circles. However, these opinions seem to be almost exclusively critical of the Israeli government's actions regarding land seizures, mass imprisonments and the Palestinians' lack of civil rights and citizenship. I rarely, if ever, hear anyone seriously criticizing Jews in general even though, like all other ethnic groups, a fair number of jokes are directed at Jewish traits both real and imagined.

Anti semitism on U.S. campuses? Really? Let's get serious here. It diminishes actual anti semitism to make such baseless claims. This is a silly conversation.

Hi Max I'm a little confused here. Your posting was titled 'Josh Goldman, you are misinformed'. My original posting mentioned the situation in US universities. Your response refered only to Canadian universities. Are you suggesting that the two countries are the same? If not, how am I misinformed? I made no claims about Concordia or any other uni. in Canada.

I have worked in higher education for over ten years, not including the time I used to complete a graduate degree, and I can tell you that anti-semitism, while not rampant in post-secondary education, is a real problem in academia. The solution, however, cannot be resolved by infringing upon free speech. Rather, any fight against anti-semitism in academia must come from solid knowledge of the intellectual background that informs it and how to use this knowledge appropriately. Going the other route, through commissions and top governing bodies, leaves you open to charges of censorship and makes you the bad guy. It says that you want to limit free speech and debate because you simply don't like what's being said--that you can't stand "the truth" and that you have something to hide. That's just how it works, especially in a place like academia, where free speech and critical inquiry go hand-in-hand. Objectivity and fairness, unfortunately, are completely different matters here.

Of all the academic disciplines, political science and regional and ethnic studies are rampant with biased instruction. Under the protection of free speech, a professor can feed his/her students a skewed version of the subject by emphasizing some facts and omitting others. If some history professor tried something like that by consistently siding with the French during the Napolianic Wars, he would be drummed out of the profession by his collegues. Since the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is ongoing, any debate on the issue will quickly degenerate into a name-calling contest without any evidence to back it up. Tempers are short and reason goes out the window. Debates on the subject should be held on college compuses but not in the classroom. They should be extra-curricular events with plenty of security guards to carry away the hecklers. Presenting maps to students which do not show the State of Israel on them is ridiculus and unprofessional. Crying "anti-Semite" because someone has a valid criticism of Israel is also uncalled for. A professor should present both sides of an issue and let the students decide which way they feel about it. Anything less is academic incompetence.

I currently attend the University of Michigan, an extremely liberal school with a high concentration of both Jews and Arabs. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is consistently at the top of the list of debates. Yes, of course there is anti-Semitism at the University. It is widespread. But here is the more shocking truth: it hardly changes anything in American society. Israelis and Palestinians overestimate the importance of academics as a whole, in terms of their power of persuasion. Do you think American politics, business, military, etc. are even remotely affected by academics? Of course not - these people are not as respected in America as in the rest of the world. If you want proof, ask any American to list a few recent Nobel prize winners. Even if he's intelligent, he'll look at you like you just asked him to estimate the size of outer space. Or ask our president what he thinks of academics.

Did the holocaust happen? Yes, there is no question it happened. Will there always be people who hate Arabs? Of course, the Arab people have learned to live with it. Will there always be people who hate Jews? Of course learn to accept it and live with it. Why waste time and effort trying to open a closed mind.

El-Birawi: If you read my prior direct response to you, you will see that what you have written is not what I was/am saying. You cannot make hate-filled speech in the US as a public official and get away with it. It doesn't matter if it about blacks, gays, Catholics, Jews, or Muslims, you cannot say (on tape - which he didn't deny) the types of things about ANY group and keep your job in a public (state) university. It had nothing to do with the fact that his hate speech was directed against Jews. I can assure you that if he made similar comments about another group, he would have lost his job as well. As for the trial part, OJ was convicted in another trial. It is much more difficult to get a criminal conviction than a civil conviction. The same will happen to actor Robert Blake who was acquited on murder but will most likely face a different story in civil court. Everything isn't about race .... I have the same feelings ab out Robert Blake that I do about OJ and Professor Arian. That is just how our system works ... the same for whites, blacks ,,,,,,, and Arabs.

Yes, you have a good point, and the perameters of what is essentially reasonal size of the debate is lay down in France, thanks to the Riots of the past Nov. I think the moment the reality ovetakes the "intellectual mastubartion" (Jean Genet)of the elite, then outcry for actions ensued. Unfortunately the anti-semitism that is propageting around the world (it is not only the Western civilisation that is guilty of such a disease nowadays..)Asea, Near and Mideast and Africa (South Africa especially) are infected as well. In my previous post I suggested that the NARRATIVE of Israel should change and to increase the PERAMETERS of the debaate to include the MILLIONS of Israel of Sefarad-Mizrahi descent. How could you overlook such a weapon in the contest of Left that is espousing the "poor" Palistinian belonging to the Brown races, while Israel belongs to the "White" races. The debate as to be as transparent from Israel side, rebranding its whole ENTITY. It is the Sefarad-Mizrahi that were chased from the lands where they contribited for the elevation of the culture and civilisation of their host countries, and were rewarded by forcing them out, and where out to but to their Ancestral Land together with their brethren the Europen Jews. That is the true narrative that has to win the battle in the Campuses of the Western world, and with the new configuration of India and China, the East will define the new reality.

can you manage to balme every single thing on israel?? You make up events and blame zionists, you blame zionists for attacks by arab terrorists, you blame zionists if it rains outside, and now u blame zionists for this. Does it end anywhere?? And by the way, dont make me laugh by saying that you are against anti-semitism

Arabs have ignited the new wave of hate that heats up the West...after the slight veil of shame that covered its deep rooted anti-Semitism following the atrocities committed during the Second World War...the overrated plight of Palestinians has been thoroughly used and recycled so as to create a climate that allows, once more, to judge Jews and their rights and wishes and dreams by laws separate from those used to judge other peoples, religions and nations. One night in Cairo, with its police, its misery, its depraved lack of freedom and humane treatment of humans and beasts is worse than 50 years of Israeli occupation. The fact that so many people in American and Canadian academic institutions are not Jewish, as anti semites have always claimed, is clearly shown by these evil turn of events. America is the next Germany, and the Arabs are going to be its executioner.

The problem of anti-Semitism has grown on US university campuses over the past years as a direct result of biased leftest academia supporting only those who represent anti-Israel agendas, and significant Wahabbi funds donated to buy chairs in departments of Middle East studies. Alternative views of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict are not allowed to be voiced either in the classroom or in university publications. Additionally, scholars who do not tow the left's views are simply not hired. The classroom has become a free-for-all of a one sided presentation in most cases the most radical anti-Jewish rhetoric. When confronted, many colleges accuse the Jewish community of trying to silence them misusing terms like "McCarthyism" when conservative speakers attempt to counter their institutionalized anti-Jewish programs. Summers is doing the right thing by speaking out but I fear the universities are so infested with this virulent hatred that he has an uphill battle to wage from the start. Change will only come when the campus once again is allowed to voice all views equally and donations are not accepted from radical Jew haters in Saudi Arabia and other Wahabbi interests.

To me, there's a thing that i take as incontestable : - Being against the existence of Israel is being anti-jew. It's so because not wanting Israel in the place where it's the most sensible to recreate it amounts to wanting jews forever foreigners among the other established nations, always in a precarious position, susceptible to genocide because you just can't defend yourself if you're a guest among a majority. History showed this many times already. This established, it's quite easy to recognize antijudaism in statements that would appeal for a one state solution or no Israel at all. As for the question of antijudaism disguised as antizionism, well, go ahead, keep on doing that. And we'll keep on fighting it through denunciation and argumentation. I hope you don't expect to be antizionist without an opposition cause that would be indeed denying the other side the right to debate. Now, if fighting this "sanitization scheme" requires public outcries, lobbying, demonstrations, creations of middle-east studies institute fairer to Israel or things similar, so be it ! The antizionist/antijudaic clique got success through this kind of manoeuvers at a time when defenders of Israel were either paralyzed by self doubt or simply aslept, let's just wake up and defend our beliefs with the old ways and the ones used by our adversaries. We've showed much much comprehension and understanding for our opponents who in return showed nothing but a will to annihilate us physically or intellectually, it's not longer time for self incrimination and self doubt. Let's wake up, be merciless and be it until our adversaries give back some of the understanding we granted as a reaching out hand.

In Canada for example, there is an arrogant and aggressive intimidation by Pro-Palestinian groups on campuses to silence the debate about Israeli Palestinian conflict. Universities are treatened with violence of they allow any pro Israeli speaker. In Concordia University in Montreal there was violence when nathanyahu was to deliver a speech.Riot police was called in, front door windows were smashed by mainly moslem students. Concordia University administrators were so intimidated that they also banned Ehud barak from speaking on their campus. in particular, Prof Lowy, a Jew himself was afraid af violance and accusations that as a Jew he allowed "war criminals" like Barak and Natanyahu to express their thoughts about the solution to the conflict. The main lobby of Concordia's downtown campus had weeklly exibits by students mainly of Arab Canadian and Moslem communities. I remeber vividly that there was an exibit in Concordia lobby with tombstones of Arab children names. I was looking at them. They asked me to sign a petition against Israeli "murderers" of palestinian children. I asked to include the namse of murdered Jewish children on the tomstones. I was treatened physicaly and had to be gurded by the security men untill I left theorugh the mane door of the Campus on the Maisouneve Blvd. Likewise Prof. Pipes had to have a police escort to deliver a lecture at York Universty in Toronto, ON. This behaviour is like the antisemitic storm troupers in Naiz germany and IronCross in Hungary. The current envoy from Canadian Islamic Congress, Ehab Lotayef, to Iraq to make contact with the kidnappers of the Christian Aid missionaries,was my coworker at a company in Montreal before he left for a position of IT Engineer at ECE McGill. I hired his older son for his first summer job. After years of professing frienship, he asked me to sign a one sided condemnation of the "murder' of Palestinian children by IDF. When i declined He responded by stopping communications with me. He also published a letter to th Montreal gazzette on Dec 8,2000 claiming the Irvin Cotler, the Memeber of Parlament for Mount Royal riding, where Lotayef resided, as "not representing" the non jewish people in that riding. This anti jewish bias, by employee of McGill University, active in Canadian Islamic Congress is another example of the covert anti jewish currents within Canadian universities. It is suffice to conclude that wherever Professors of Moslem and particularly Arab extraction are in position of power jews and Christian students are excluded for research. take the case of Prof. Mahmoud El Masri at University of Waterloo. You can verify it on the website (www.waterloo.ca/ece). Although El Masri was got his PhD in 1971 from Univ of Ottawa once he become a professor at Univ. of Waterloo, 99 percent of his graduate students were poeple with Arab names. As if there are were no christian or jewish students, since 1980, interested in VLSI. El Masri is also the head of the Canadian Islamic Congress. It is docummented that El Masri justified killing Israeli over the age of 18 by Palestinian suicide bombers.( On Michael Coren TVO Show). El Masri protested the hiring of jewish advisors to FM Pettigrew and Vice PM McClelland on the ground that they are Jewish!!! As Jews they are suspect to CIC to be Israeli sympathizers. There are many professors of Arab and Moslem countries origin in canadian universities. Check the websites. Where they are in a position of power Jewish students are excluded. In 50, 60 and 70 there were many canadian and American Jewish professors. You never had such level of bias against Christian, Moslem, Hindu Buddist as is observed by the current crop of Moslem American and Moslem Canadian professors. Antisemitism is indeed a very significant phenomena in North American universities. It was smuggled in under the pro palestinian solidarity movement.

so he can learn how to co exist with us minorities in Toronto...

Do you want a PA president who will accept anythings you ask from him? Do you want a soft guy who never reject you an offer?

Not any more now, you are divided and gap is getting wider and bigger because many of you don't know what you want exactly, so confused.

I remember my days on campus. I remember the many Marxist tables set up. Maoists, Trotskyites, Stalinists, Shining Path, Ho Chi Minh, Leninists, Marxist-Leninists, Castroites, Cze Geuvera t-shirts and posters. books upon shiny books. Well stocked and reasonably priced. Leaflets, leaflets and buttons. It was a veritable super-market of Marxist perifanelia. I considered myself leftist at the time. but never could get that cult-of the-personality thing down. I couldn't find it within me to worship one of the many idols and gods of Marxist thought and revolution. since none of these people actually were providers of capital, it soon became obvious where the funds were coming from. I had a relation who was seriously involved in the attempt to breed revolution in the Great White North. Capital of course was provided by the soviets and after the horrible loss in 73, and the turn to oil as a weapon, from the mighty gulf states. It was all very nice a thick succulent broth of anti-zionists and Jews haters. The crap they have been spewing for three decades at least is the same stuff that came off of the soviet Union's presses. The Left in american today differs very little from the Soviet propoganda machine of the fifties and sixties. The Left in the west which sided with Israel, even after 67, took a about-face and along with the Soviets came to regard Israel as number one on their hit-list along with South Africa. It is important to remember at the time that the Soviet empire was calling occupation bad, they themselves occupied Poland, Czecholslovakia, Romania, Yugoslavia, Hungary, East Germany, Bulgaria, all the Stans and parts of the British government and it's elites. America for much of the sixties and seventies stood alone against the Russians. The French had voted in a Communist government and the rest of Europe had it's head in the sand. Today's Western Leftists, hate America, this was true in the seventies when I travelled Europe with a Canadian flag on my backpack. If you want to get elected in much of Europe it is well worth your while to play the "Hate America" card. Shroeder used this twice quite successfully, in both cases winning the first reelection and coming close in the second. the Canadians are darn good at this as well. Witness the Liberal prime-minister who attacked Bush at the latest Global Warming conference in Montreal. Goodness knows the Canadians are no better at fighting polution than the Yanks, but if you want to win an election you have to play the anti-American card, always works. Along with this comes the anti-israel card. An easy card to play, because Jews is News. the Jews have always tapped into the shadow of the non-Jewish world. We have always been the scapegoat for much of the world's problems. Back in 1937 a Thai prince, educated in Switzerland came back to Thailand and wrote "The chinese of the Jews of South-east asia." He simply rubbed out Jews from some Nazi literature and inserted chinese in their place. Nice, easy and always seems to be a crowd pleaser. Same goes for the Arab world. Play the Israel, play the Jews card. Keeps the people happy and mis-places their anger from the governing thugs and places it on the Jews. Simple.

Art, I am not so surprised about your views of our laws and our legal system. To you all Arabs and Blacks are guilty even if a jury aquite them of charges. This is what you are saying. With that views, you should be sitting on the US Supereme Court. There is still a vacancy now on the court. Would you say the same if the person acquited by a jury is a Jew? I doubt it. So much for your understanding of our legal system. You see our courts and laws do not defferintiate between Jews and non-Jews as is the case in Israel. In the US even Arabs are innocent until proven guilty and when acquited by a jury they are innocent, since the jury rule on the issues of facts that are the basis for valid conviction. I know in Israel facts have no value in the legal system, but in the US it does matter.

How could Israel blame the so-called anti-colonialism, as the evidence of the Israel narrative for the past almost 58 years, the narrative, minimises the part that the Sefarad-Mizrahi component of the population is minimised.? What happened to the millions of "Brown" (mind you with blue eyes) SEfarads that have been building Israel for the past 2000 years. Who has read about the cities and towns such as Tsfat, Hebron, Gaza and Tiberias,amoung others, that were strictly Jewish for centuries, and fell into destitute and poverty for lack of Jewish infrastructures, and the lack of support from Europe, as the enterprise was basically Sefarad-Mizrahi. THe story of the Sefarad-Mizrahi components in the region has almost been overlooked, and now it is time to change the narrative and make good the historical truth of Israel. I think it is actually the time to build such an environment, not only to to right the wrong for those generations of Sefarads-Mizrahis that contributed in the building of the Nation that is Irael, but also to show the world at large how the Israeli Jews are part and partial of the surrounding for thousands of years, and the continuum of the Jews for the whole of the diaspora epopee. Sure, there are stories to tell about the Jews in the Arab-Muslim world, that have contributed in the advancement of their respective lands of birth, and were rewarded by mistreatement and make their lives so diffecult that the Jews were forced to leave all their millinium ancestral properties and civilisation, to find refuge in their ancestral Land of Israel. It is unfortunate that the narrative such as this has been overlooked and allowed the Lefwing people to charge Israel as the last bastion of colonialism, while in fact the Arab-Muslim world (RE: Sudan, Chad, Eriteria..)that is still holding on to colonies.

El-Birawi - in the USA, hate speech and incitement to commit hate crimes are illegal, not just against Jews, but against anyone including religious, racial and sexual orientation and in fact Muslims. Anyone in a public position would stand a good chance of losing their job for making similar statements against ANY group. If the "good professor" Al Arian doesn't like operating under this system, perhaps he should go to teach in some other country where he would find a system that tolerates the type of speech and activity in which he would be comfortable.

The problem with antisemitism here arises from the fact that we blame jews for the crimes against humanity committed by Isarelis. All jews are thus paying for the crimes of a few. The wave of antisemitsism we witness in the USA and EU is not only indirectly directed to jews. The culprid is what Israel is doing in Palestine. I am at a US university and when I see this kind of antsemitism I make it a point to point out that the anger should be properly directed at Israel, not the jews in general. Unfortunately people do not get it. All jews are thus paying for the sins of a few.

Lindsey is one of those who would advocate drumming out of any university department one who supported a binational solution to the Israel/Palestine conflict. To her, apparently, that is anti=semitic and to discuss such a possibility is verboten in the classroom. I guess some of these neocons arguing for a break up of the Iraqi state into ethno/religious entities should also be banned or at least monitored, as are Middle East Studies department professors by groups such as Campus Watch under the hack Daniel Pipes. They will often send in non-students into the classroom to disturb class lectures or video the professor. The wwe should ask Lindsey if it would be permissible to have pro-zionist advocates discussing the vialbility of transfer of Arabs out of Israel in order to achieve a demographic reality that would assure that Israel is more "Jewish" in its character but less democratic.

http://www.unitedjerusalem.org/index2.asp?id=244565 I'm not sure if this is the piece of the news of the words of the A'rt's Imam', but here the Imam Damara is referring ( from videotape ) to the sons of monkeys and pigs:, the Jews According to a report in the Cleveland Jewish News (CJN), video footage of one of the conferences sponsored by ICP and obtained by CJN shows Al-Arian telling the audience, "Jihad is our path. Victory to Islam. Death to Israel." In another conference, one of the speakers, Imam Fawaz Damra, spiritual leader of the Islamic Center of Cleveland and a regular guest at ICP's conferences, stated that ICP is "the active arm of the Islamic Jihad Movement in Palestine, and we like to call it the Islamic Committee for Palestine here for security reasons." Damara is also on tape, stating at an ICP conference, "terrorism and terrorism alone is the way to liberation."Sharing the podium with Al-Arian, he also called for "directing all the rifles at the first and last enemy of the Islamic nation and that is the sons of monkeys and pigs, the Jews." (the webpage is recommended only for educational purposes :)

Khalid, you are very sophisticated and using clever phrases so as to sound both reasonable to Jews and not sound like supporting Israel's right to exist with any Jewish identity to the Arab audience. Perhaps when speaking in Arabic Khalid will use far harsher terms against Israeli and the Jews. Khalid, you can prove I am wrong by responding to my queries: Is any part of Israel not "seized from Palestinian land" ? Do you posses any literature on holocaus denial? Do you agree that the late Mufti Haj amin El Husseini was a Nazi sympathiser and a hater of Jews ? Hoping for an honest answer... You may ask me any questions in return.

Khalid writes: "The government and media had indicted Profs. al Arian, calling him a terrorist. Then last week, he was acquitted of terrorism charges. The fact that someone was or wasn't acquitted under our system does not prove guilt or innocence ..... just that he wasn't convicted ..... if you do not believe that look at the O.J. Simpson Trial ..... that acquittal had more to do with the timing of the laws being enacted rather than the actions themselves, as I believe that Prof. Al Arian committed the provable portion of his acts prior to the laws against that beahvior were enacted, although he may have been the cause for which the laws were enacted in the first place.

"Last year there were over 180 attacks on Jewish students on campuses accross the UK all of which were from the far left and moslems." "124 showed clear anti-Zionist motivation, compared to 84 that were motivated by far right sentiment or ideology ... Motivation for the remaining 324 remains unknown." http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw2004/uk.htm

Khalid writes: "However, in order to know all the truth, I will have to hear his story as well. You know, one can`t be sure of anything anymore in the US. .................................................... So, Maybe you are not telling the truth, maybe the man didn`t say what you said he said. Khalid, he certainly never said this to me personally, but it was reported in the Cleveland Plain Dealer and Damara has spoken on National Public Radio. If you want to determine if this is true, try Googling for the information on your own and see what you get.

Exactly Yaron... At my university, Palestinian activists used to hold "presentations" and would make up all kinds of crazy stories about how Israeli Government pumps anti-fertility chemicals and LSD into their water supply (apparently not enough) and muslims couldn't go to the beach in Tel Aviv because it was forbidden by law. All sorts of monstrous lies and then they would bring these supposed "Jews" with them (usually from France and didn't speak much English) that would sit there and say, "Yes sir". So when you would tell people there that Arabs were welcome anywhere on Tel Aviv beaches, they would say "No...it's not true" and the "Jewish" guy would back them up. So instead of having a debate on true aspects of the conflict, you would wind up defending the most outrageous claims. It was literally, a smear campaign of the most outrageous sort. Then, people who came there with an open mind would leave completely confused or thinking that Arabs weren't allowed on Tel Aviv beaches and Jews pump LSD into their watter supply, because, after all, some "Jewish" guy said so. Regards, Michael S.

Thanks Ezreal. I have had a look at the article by David Aronovitch. Interesting article. I find it very sad when a Jew denies his own heritage. I really dont know how those they are able to look at themselves in the mirror.

find it on the books, my friend. or in practice where in my university, where i go shopping, in the hospitals, on the roads I encounter arabs everyday who would disagree with you. even if it is true, that doesn't negate the jews right to exist in israel. sorry, that doesn't cut it.

'Lindsey, the WORLD could do without a Jewish state. How can anyone, with a straight face, justify the brutal dispossession of one people so that another can have their own state?'Prince Prince, you have no right whatsoever to suggest that the world could do without a Jewish state. Why don't you take a look at your own country? The Aborigines are the true people of Australia, not you and your ancestors. How do you justify what happened to the rightful people of Australia? How do you justify the fact that they are still second class citizens in their own country? Judge yourself before judging others you hypocrite. By the way, the world agreed that Israel should be created in 1948 so read and weep.

"The Guardian is not a reference regarding Israel, as they are not objective." -Shlomo As I predicted in my post #48, the response to the reporting of the ethnic cleansing taking place in Hebron is to shoot the messenger! In Shlomo's view of "objectivity", the Guardian is not objective, Haaretz is not objective and the UN is not objective. Only the messianic settlers are objective! "In recent years, more than half of the 2,500 Palestinians who lived in Hebron`s old city have been driven out and many hundreds more have been forced out on the edge of the settlements. Palestinians are now barred from the main commercial road, Shuhada street, where shops are boarded up. Elsewhere they are permitted only to walk and not drive. The UN has counted 101 military roadblocks and checkpoints controlling the movement of Palestinians in central Hebron." http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1663419,00.html

"..Later Mr Lapid said his comments were misunderstood: "I'm not referring to the Germans. I'm not referring to the Holocaust. When you see an old woman, you think of your grandmother," he said. http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1223100,00.html Prince, Please don't exaggerate, its not the the truth you are telling. Anti semites around the world used Lapids words on their purposes, it became a lie. Lapid did not compare the house demolitions to Auschwitz. I heard Lapid's voice crying: No, no, don't misunderstand me! in the wireless in Finland (radio mundo), when inteviewed by a British journalist.

Here is a very good article written in the Times June2005 by David Aaronavitch, a former communist party member and now left wing columnist. He often writes op-eds for the Guardian,Observer and Independant and a man of great intellect and moderate persuasion.URL: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22369-1671715,00.html Title :How did the far Left manage to slip into bed with the Jew-hating Right? Please read it, then you may understand why Nicole states Left as opposed to Right.

Unfortunately as defined on this board a Jewish state entails every other group being defined as second-class citizens. I personallly would have no problems at all with there being a state of Israel if it gave the same legal status to gentiles that my country gives to Jews. Certainly everyone would agree that it would be an act of extreme bigotry for the USA to declare itself as a Christian state and treat Jews as Israel treats gentiles.

Art wrote "Sorry Khalid, not true. In Ohio, there is a Palestinian Imam named Damara who is about to be deported. He is quoted (and admits to saying) that "Jews are dogs and monkeys and should be killed." Not Zionists, not Israelis, but Jews. Dear Art, if the "imam" said what you said he said, then he should be deported. Ignorant people shouldn't be allowed to poison the minds of otehr people. However, in order to know all the truth, I will have to hear his story as well. You know, one can't be sure of anything anymore in the US. The government and media had indicted Profs. al Arian, calling him a terrorist. Then last week, he was acquitted of terrorism charges. So, Maybe you are not telling the truth, maybe the man didn't say what you said he said. We can't try people on the internet. I trust you understand my point. By the way, Jews are recognized in Islam as people of the book, and Musilms are allowed to marry Jewish women....If they were dogs, this would mean Musilms are allowed to marry the daughter of dogs!!!! A strange and illogical thing.

I can speak only of my personal experience: Anti zionism just provide a legitimate reason to express the previously present antisemitic feelings, making it politically correct. Do you think it is normal that the kindergarden, the school, highschool, I went to when I was a kid, was build like fortress just because fear of attacks from terrorists . Just because it was a jewish school in Belgium. Do you it is normal that so much security is necessary in front of synagogues just because it is a jewish temple? Do you have so much security outside of churches, mosques. When living in Montreal/Canada, repeatedly jewish students with jarmukes were beaten up or offenced by their muslim co-students and without asking their opinion about israel. But just because they are jewish. I don t go beat up muslim students just because some muslim fundamentalists bomb people in Madrid, in bali, in new york, london,... I don t go outside of mosques searching for trouble, I don't go beat up Imans. And if I were to do it, it would have been more than justified to call me, racist, islamophobic and not somehow justify it because of the islamic terrorism in the world.

i haven't really read any specific remarks about the article, but coming as a leftist jew to a canadian university I was not expecting the blanket anti-semitism that has nothing to do with politics. Denying the jews right to have a state is not criticizing israel, it is anti-semitic. we can criticize israel without denying the right for the jewish people to exist in a national homeland in historic israel. israel's existence is not mutually exclusive of a palestinian state, and on campuses that is not clear at all. at demonstartions where death to the jews is screamed on loudspeakers in arabic it is pretty obvious that this is not political, but racial hatred.

if we are to look at the deliberate activities of Jewish and Zionist organizations to silence freedom of speech, we only need to go the case of the recently acquited Professor Sami Al-Arian, the former professor at the University of South Florida who was chased out of the university by Jewish organizations for supporting the Palestinians( He was acquited of the terrorism charges, even with the presence of 100's of Israeli witnesses and over 20,000 hours of phone tapping and hundreds of hours of video taping by Jewish organizations. Tampa Tribune promoted by local and national Jewish organizations led the charge making sure that Professor Sami loses his job. In fact, the central issue in the US Senate race in Florida between Repulican Mel Martinez and Democrat Betty Castor ( Martinez won) was the failure of Castor who was the president of the university to fire Professor Al-Arian. If we need to talk about intimidation, let us call a spade a spade and cut the crab.

Though natioalists in Europe are often antisemitic, the islamists LOVE to lift on their wings.

In the past Arab nationalism poisened by religious extremism generated antisemitism. Now, it is still generating it.

Zionism argues that the Jews need a Jewish state, with a Jewish army and Jewish police defend them against Christian and Muslim "religious" violence. Israel is the obvious location for the Jewish natinal home, because of the longtime and universal Jewish attachment to the place. One who argues against these propositions, may be arguing against Zionism. All of the rest is anti-semitism: innocent Arabs, Khazaria, AIPAC, Talmud, Jesus, Mohammed, etc etc. All of these arguments reduce to the same thing: that Jews do not have the same innate human rights as do Christians or Muslims.

you got that right saudi money in place of jewish money, that is free speech in america. works for me

it seems that you are the one who wants to limit debate. Try telling americans what they can and cannot say and you will see israels greatest enemy yet, a pissed off america. read what you write before hitting the send button

Its definitely the far left.

"Anti-semitic attacks in Europe are not the result of the growing influence of Islam, as some like to assume. The white supremacists, neo-nazi-s and their bretheren are the instigators".Says Miss Muslima (with tongue firmly in cheek) Anti-Semitism in Europe was for nearly two millennia a Christian phenomenon; now it is basically a Muslim one. That is the basic message of an officially-commissioned study by the European Union (EU) which became notorious when the EU itself quashed the 104-page draft version. The Financial Times, which broke this story, reported that it did so "because the study concluded Muslims and pro-Palestinian groups were behind many of the incidents it examined." This focus on Muslim and pro-Palestinian perpetrators, the Financial Times went on, "was judged inflammatory." One person familiar with the draft study concluded that "The decision not to publish was a political decision." The problem includes violent attacks: Physical attacks on Jews and the desecration and destruction of synagogues were acts often committed by young Muslim perpetrators in the monitoring period. Many of these attacks occurred either during or after pro-Palestinian demonstrations, which were also used by radical Islamists for hurling verbal abuse. In addition, radical Islamist circles were responsible for placing anti-Semitic propaganda on the Internet and in Arab-language media. Observers point to an increasingly blatant anti-Semitic Arab and Muslim media including audiotapes and sermons, in which the call is not only made to join the struggle against Israel but also against Jews across the world. Miss Muslima, you seem like a nice girl. so why the need to engage in "Khalid like" deceptions?

Lots of it here in the USA on campuses. If it is phrased as opposition to Israel's policies, anti-semetism is considered " kosher". Israelis portrayed as Palestinian "baby-killers", etc., Protocols of the Elders of Zion, type of stuff. ThAT should be even more accepted now that the money-hungry hypocrites that run universities, who always claim academic freedom of speech for vile anti-semetic comments, are accepting Saudi money.

"Sorry Miss Muslima, you are definitely wrong. 20 years ago in the UK all anti semetic attacks were from the far right but for the past 5 years 95% of anti semetic attacks have been from Moslems. Last year there were over 180 attacks on Jewish students on campuses accross the UK all of which were from the far left and moslems." The rise in the Muslim attacks co-incided with Israel's offensive in the West Bank. ie. there was a reason, however misguided. The far left? I don't think so, it's the far right!

The dangerous alliance of seeming opposites, the Islamofascists and the Extreme Politically Correct Chomsky Left work to silence pro- Israel voices. Jewish education towards political action on campus is one vital corrective. But the problem is not Jewish alone but rather the takeover of the Campus, the stifling of debate by anti- democratic forces from within the Campus and without.

Khalid says: "Anti-Semites used to be those who hate Jews for being Jews. Now, Anti-Semites are mostly those whom ZIonists hate for criticizng Israel." Sorry Khalid, not true. In Ohio, there is a Palestinian Imam named Damara who is about to be deported. He is quoted (and admits to saying) that "Jews are dogs and monkeys and should be killed." Not Zionists, not Israelis, but Jews. When this became public, the leaders of the mosque (the largest in Ohio) tried to have Damara removed as Imam, but the members demanded that he remain. One can assume that indicates support for his statement.

When we sing the Hatikva and make a toast to the State of Israel at every Jewish wedding, we always make the toast to the President and not to the Prime Minister. Therefore the most important person in Israel is the President. The same as in the UK the queen is more important than the prime minister even though she is just the figurehead.

It is always the PM who hold power. It's the PM who decide in Israel what should be happend and what should not be happen. It's the PM who always travel and meet with the world top people.

they think they are in Lebanon this is Australia not Lebanon, they hit an Australian guards, they hit drunk persons, there is law here and you can't blame a drunk but inspite of all this the arab wants to fight they think they are having fun in their own Middle Eastern countries by destroying the shops and houses instead of going to the Police and make complain. Poor Australian people who let the gates open and accepted so many arab emigrants, my heart with Australian people and any Arab is causing troubles send him back to his country it will be a good lesson never forget.

Lindsey. You raised some very interesting questions. For that you will need to enroll in my course Israel/Palestine 101. I think it will do lots of good on both side,if we both try to understand each other, and know the facts and historical background that led to the creation of Israel, the exile of the Palestinians and its aftermath. Keeping in mind that you are not perfect and holy and we are also not perfect and holy, and please leave God/Allah out of this, because I never buy the bibilical argument as denying my rights and granting it to you.

The Guardian is not a reference regarding Israel, as they are not objective. Ethnic cleansing is what your ancestors did to the native Indians of North America.

Not that I really think that Bainem or any other of the Said acolytes will have the courage to read substantive critiques of Said, but WTF, here are some links about Said's Orientalism that deserve critical engagement even if that is difficult to do for the true believers of Saint Said. 1. Debunking Edward Said by Ibn Warraq: http://www.secularislam.org/articles/debunking.htm 2. Edward Said's Orientalism reviewed by Malcolm Kerr: http://www.geocities.com/orientalismorg/Kerr.htm 3. Said's Splash by Martin Kramer: http://www.geocities.com/martinkramerorg/SaidSplash.htm Finally, this is about the 4th time I've tried to post about Said to Ha'aretz talkback. What's the problem? Is Ha'aretz afraid of anyone reading substantive critiques of Saint Said?

The Islamic studies centers do release huge amounts of material. The theme is often how Islam would never harm anybody,the religion of peace. If you have a problem with the rest just let me know which part is wrong.

Yes Shlomo, you are right.

No you are wrong again. The President of the State of Israel is Moshe Katzav. He was born in Iran.

Hi Michael Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm not the 'Josh Goldman' you refer to. Now, how about dealing with the substance of my posting? Or do you, like so many others on here, only seek to discredit the people who post views you dislike?

I find it truly amazing that so many Zionists vehemently refuse to acknowledge the link between Israeli policies and the anti-Israel sentiment around the world. When policies of ethnic cleansing, for example, are exposed (as in the article from the Guardian quoted below) many Zionists are too quick to shoot the messenger and conclude that the reporter is anti-Semitic or that the response should be better spin etc. What they don't realise is that the story is real and no amount of spin can hide the truth in today's world. Ending the occupation or giving Palestinians equal citizenship rights is the best (and only) solution to the anti-Israel sentiment on campuses and elsewhere. "In recent years, more than half of the 2,500 Palestinians who lived in Hebron's old city have been driven out and many hundreds more have been forced out on the edge of the settlements. Palestinians are now barred from the main commercial road, Shuhada street, where shops are boarded up. Elsewhere they are permitted only to walk and not drive. The UN has counted 101 military roadblocks and checkpoints controlling the movement of Palestinians in central Hebron." http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1663419,00.html

I posted a short time back how much anti semitic feeling there was in america and was told this was fals by many here on this board. The problem is that people here dont hate jews so much as they hate the state of israel. By creating a situation where you have a people/state seen as the same thing and many here defend that situation you cant dislike the actions of one without the other. There are always going to be those who hate no matter who it is they choose to hate, but the conflict with the palestinians has done israel more damage and as a result the jews more harm than anything i know of in recent history That the world see's israel as the new nazi's is a terriable twist of fate. . In one other post someone said that living in israel you dont see the hate from the outside world, and i gotta tell you those are very true words. You can't stop freedom of speech as this will also backfire on the jewsish peoples. There are always three sides to a truth yours,mine andthe truth.

"Saudi Arabia gives another $20 million for Islamic apology centers They own huge chunks of the USA media. Major shareholdings in major corporations. The oil weapon is never far below the surface." Silly me I misread your post for a moment there. The accusations you level against Muslims is almost a word by word copy of what anti-Semites have been saying about Jews forever. Sorry Peter but that makes you as bad as any anti-Semite. You've proved beyond reasonable doubt that your opinions on anti-Semitism are worthless.

It refers to Jews,not other Semites.

Being critical of Israel does not make one an "anti-Semite." The Jews, with the help of the British, engaged in colonialism. One cannot equate criticism of Israeli policies with a blanket "anti-Semitism." Even many Jews know this.

they are more than 10% in all Nobel prizes, and more than 25% in the scientific ones, so don't worry, even if this is probably one of the reasons of this anti-semitism.

to make derogatory comments about Australia. The Lebanese gangs in Australia openly call themselves Lebanese and also make derogatory remarks about Australia. The gangs refer to Australian girls as "sluts" and frequently harrass women.

OK, Im listening. but my question is: Why do you accept Israel as a middle east state? and also, what do you mean by "your presence as occupying power in the West Bank and Gaza will not have happened if there were democracies and freedoms in the Arab and Muslim world"? Im trying to understand.

Never from Maroc, yemen, india or even Latin.

It works in reverse too. Walk into any Bank Discount and you will rarely see a white Israeli.

Sorry Miss Muslima, you are definitely wrong. 20 years ago in the UK all anti semetic attacks were from the far right but for the past 5 years 95% of anti semetic attacks have been from Moslems. Last year there were over 180 attacks on Jewish students on campuses accross the UK all of which were from the far left and moslems.

To be honest Prince, and Im writing this with a straight face, I would justify "the brutal dispossession of one people so that another can have thier own state". We could argue about the circumstances under which Arabs became refugees, or what the intent of the Zionist govt. was around that time, blah blah, and I would trust certain Israeli historians before I would trust a lot of Arab historians on these matters, but the fact is that if you asked me if the Jews would have been justified in carrying out expulsions if it was necessary to create a Jewish state at that time, I would say yes, and I think that if I was around at the time I would have done it myself, and this is a fundamental part of my Zionism. I wouldnt ask you for one second not to hate me for it, if, say, I expelled you from your house. It is also clearly in violation of the spirit of all of the international laws and bodies which were being formed around that time to protect civilians from the ravages of war and aggression, embodied by the UN, the UN charter, etc... But before I'm able to beg for forgiveness I have to ask one thing of you: to really understand where we are/were coming from before you judge us. Not to forget about your anger, but to really try to understand us. I think this is the crux of the conflict, that the Jewish historical/existential situation is incredibly difficult to understand, but that this is the only way to understand us, and not by throwing around words which are only vaguely descriptive (racists, etc..) or by interpreting us through other people (Nazis, S. Africans, etc...), you have to understand OUR history and what we have seen. Its a kind of oppression what Im asking, yes? That you have to make the effort to learn about us in order to live in peace? I think so. But its what we've been doing for centuries living in other peoples countries, living under other peoples rule. Its not fair that we should have to adapt to others and never anyone to us, to learn other languages and cultures, and never anyone else ours. Didnt Muhammed say everyone will carry his own load? A just world isnt based on the strong dominating the weak, whether its muslims and jews one day, or jews and muslims the next. its when we find other ways of relating to each other that arent based on domination, and to do that we all need to renounce history, to some degree, and all of the gains that have been made through war and domination throughout time. at least thats what i think. hate me or whatever. but im here for peace, believe it or not. i just cant afford to be a martyr to everyone elses nationalism, while forgoing my own, like Mr Goldman. And I dont think you understand just how bad it was for us, even before WW2. really, from your comments, i dont. im not trying to be combative, im trying to talk.

There are enough moslems in the world to worry about themselves ....cant you left wingers see that. Jews are less than 0.001% of world population and we should all stick together. Living in Israel as I have, you dont see the hatred of the outside world towards us. Perhaps you need six months in London. That would certainly give you a different view and most certainly take you away from this "do gooding and richeous stance you left wingers have".

Is an ethnic cleansing going on in Australia with the recents riots by white Australians against Muslims and Lebanese immigrated population ? You better deal with your own racism and not focuse your antisemtism on Israel.

Another lame attempt by diaspora Rightwing apologists to legitimize Israel's occupation and suppress legitimate anti-occupation criticism. The fact that this criticism often comes from University campus' reflects the reality of American public discourse on the matter, extremely limited. Ironically, Tobin's snide comment on the 'hostile' nature of Said and his legacy is an explicit anti-Arabism. This kind of thinking might account for the 'drastic' rise in Israeli ethno-religious discrimination vis a vie the Palestinians, exemplified by the uprooting of olive trees, comments sprayed on walls, store windows being smashed, poisoning of oil wells, etc.

Josh Goldman (assuming it's the one I know of) is a Pro-Palestinian Jew who has lobbied very hard against Israel. In fact, he's married to a Palestinian Arab woman and is famous for meeting with Yassir Arafat during the 2000 intifada. He's famous simply because of his status as a Jew, operating for the "other side" as it were. Many Jews brand him as a sort of a puppet or Uncle Tom. I'll keep my opinion to myself. Regards, Michael S.

Too much about Islam and the Arabs is being forced down our throats now in the UK. You get on with your lives and we will get on with ours.