Aluf Benn / Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why?

Radical salafism may be a threat, but it is a political threat separate from the qassams. To counter a qassam laucher the military commander in the field has to answer only the question whether the value of the qassam(s) is worth the anticipated civilian deaths ? how many civilian deaths are equal to the value of a qassam ? What is the military value of a qassam ? Very little indeed, since it only caused a few deaths. Hamas' strategy was brilliant. On top of that, Israeli military officials ADMITTED that they wanted to strike hard, admitting that the underlying rationale was punitive and therefore disproportional to the specific objective military value of the qassams.

qassam rockets are low value targets, their capacity to inflict physical/military harm is negligible, therefore, it is against the laws of war to mount a specific counter attack which puts civilians at disproportionate risk. In other words, you cannot drop a bomb on a neighborhood to attack a qassam launcher. Hamas has gained the strategic upper hand by tricking Israel into engaging in a war to subdue a laughable rocket. Of course, the civilians are pawns in this game, pawns on both sides. Even if some civilians lost immunity by aiding the qassam launchers, nevertheless the principle of proportionality is valid. Proprotionality means that the value of the enemy target MUST BE proportional to the anticipated collateral damage. What the hell is the value of one (or many) qassam(s) ? They are primitive, and Hamas is laughing in their fist to see how easily we were manipulated.

And what Israel would do if was occupied? Nothing?

The fact is the war was stopped for Obama's sake, that is to say the Inauguration of the President of the U.S.A., Israel's friend and "patron" (Dare I say?) So, in that sense, he did earn that Nobel prize, even before actually becoming president. Before that, Olmert refused to release the prisoners that Hamas was and still is demanding in exchange for Gilad Shalit, let alone open the crossings. And people like Islamic Jihad continued to send rockets into Sderot and the surrounding open desert. The Israeli government wanted them to stop once and for all. And stop they did, at the cost of the lives of their own women and children, while the Hamas leadership cowered in underground bunkers located strategically under the main hospital. You can guess why. Certainly the IDF did not want to risk the life of ONE Israeli soldier, after the fiasco of the 2nd Lebanon war. So in went the IDF w/its version of "Shock and Awe." Shocking for some of the soldiers who protested when they came out...

it's called : "obession; radical islam and the war against the west" israel is not the issue, nor are settlements. The PLO was founded in 1964, 3 whole yrs PRIOR to any so called "occupation"...the arabs bring their misery on their own heads...they always have...if in 1967 they recognized israel's right to exists, they would have had back the land that was formerly jordans and egypts...and there would be no settlements... I disagree with the crazy settlers, but to revise history serves no purpose other than to try to delegitimize israel's historical rights to the land. In terms of israel, 1948 is the true discussion. In terms of the world at large and islam, you need to go back to the dark ages and into the crusades era...islam is not a peaceful religion if it has to share our earth with other religions...

"the arabs do not want peace. they want to subjugate israel and her jewish population..." Oh, but you have that just exactly backwards... What you meant to say was that Israel does not want peace and wants to continue to subjugate Palestinians as they've been doing for the last forty years...

Goldstone gave Israel an out (i.e. investigate yourself)in order to stop the matter from going further. By investigating Cast Lead, Israel can move forward without the UN putting pressure on Israel, but most importantly, Israel as an open society needs to understand what its leadership has done & why. Then the people in Israel need to decide what it wishes to do about Gaza & the West Bank; otherwise, Israel will be stuck in neutral as it has been.

I think that Israel should conduct its own investigation but not for the reasons that Benn & the other readers give. Israel needs to decide what it wants to do with Gaza & the West Bank. Face facts, Israel does not have a partner in peace because if it did a two state solution would have been accepted by now. Israel has a choice, give Gaza to Egypt & except for the land it wishes to keep, give the West Bank to Jordan. Let Jordan & Egypt deal with the NGO's & the UN. If they want, let them make a separate state, but they have treaties with Israel & will be responsible for the actions of the people in the West Bank & Gaza. The only alternative, since Abbas won't even talk to Israel, is to absorb the land & make the people citizens of Israel, which I don't think that Israel wants. An investigation into Cast Lead should be done because Israel for its own sake needs to understand what happened & why & not repeat the same mistake; moreover, the matter will only exaserbate in the UN.

"As you implicitely acknowledge, the fight between israel and the palestinians is a religious war." (CJK) Neither is that true. I acknowledged nothing of that sort, implicitely or not. I am not mistaking, as you do, the part for the whole, and Hamas for the Palestinian people. You wouldn't mistake the Yesha Council, or those lunatics who were calling for the elimination of Rabin, for the Jewish people - would you? "The reason for the original refusal of partition was a religious one." (CJK) Nonsense. No clear minded person would say, of the autocrats who, in 1948, were ruling our neighbours - that they were religiously motivated to reject the Partition. Certainly not the egyptian king Farouk nor the Iraqi Faisal II, nor the syrian baathist 'what's-his-name'. As for Abdallah I of Jordan, even some ignorants know that Ben Gurion had previously came to an understanding with him, through Golda Meir, whereby the king would annex the Palestinian areas designated by the UN for the Palestinian state. It does help to think, and also to know a little bit of history.

"the problem is not with the will of god, but with the will of hamas." (CJK) I just told you (#81) it is one and the same thing. As Hamas understands it - I think I made that clear enough. As for "the impotence of the left", the Left can only be as potent as the public wants it to be. As in every other democracie, the people gets what it deserves - in our case, a leadership accused of war crimes. Don't blame the Left for it. "You fail to acknowledge that regardless of what Israel does, she is blamed." (CJK) That's not true at all. No one, in the civilized world, ever blamed us for our stunning June '67 victory. True, we weren't yet the last and only democratic country on earth to allow its nationals to settle on a land outside its sovereignty, in the midst of a foreign stateless people. If that shows me as lacking "moral clarity", then we don't give the same meaning to the same words. "[The Arabs] want to subjugate Israel and her jewish population." God Lord, Let us hope it is not true, for if it is, then our only ally is, for the second time in a row, either a moron or a swindler planning to sell us to our enemies. In both cases Israel is doomed, and Zionism to be soon spoken of as the most tragic and costly mistake of the Jewish people in modern times. You may think of Herzl and Ben Gurion as mere charlatans, I don't. " ... the vision that so many Palestinians long for, and that is a society in which they can raise their children in peace and hope." in "President Bush meets with President Abbas", September 20, 2006. "President Bush meets with President Abbas", Sep 20, 2006. www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/bush092006.html

"I wouldn't think twice about wiping out his parents, siblings, and the family dog." (Cheryl M) You would find yourself in jail for the rest of your life - in the best of cases. This is what they do to your uncivilized ilk in all the civilized countries. You better think twice.

PSM: "By being legally determined a 'foreign entity,' the Gaza Strip is no longer Israel`s responsibility." Which means that **any** occupier could make that same declaration (heck! they could do it on the very day they first occupy that territory!!) and by so doing shrug off the responsibility of an occupying power. How easy is that, heh? PETER, it is rather axiomatic that when you "occupy" you have come into possession of territory *from* a "hostile entity". Therefore by your - and the Knesset's - "logic" no occupier *ever* bears *any* responsibility for occupied territory. BTW, Sharon made that same claim when he first presented the Disengagement Plan to the Knesset, so I guess MK's must have an attention deficit disorder. You know, seeing as how the same claim keeps having to be repeated.....

Richard Pearce Wow school buses stolen, What have we to do with school buses? Land stolen, Sorry we have left Gaza how are we going to do that? Social services closed, Sorry we have left Gaza how are we going to do that? Mosques raided Where in Gaza? Sorry I don`t remember us being there! 6 dead in July 2008 Really Well according to Betselem your favorite organization there was only ONE killed in Gaza He has been killed when trying to cross the border in order to infiltrate into ISRAEL P/S By the way, Did you know that Gaza and WB are two different places, whit no connection with one another? The Party controlling Gaza (Hamas), despises the Party (government) that controlling WB and Vise Versa? Your answer clearly indicates, Not!

Richard Pearce Wow school buses stolen, What have we to do with school buses? Land stolen, Sorry we have left Gaza how are we going to do that? Social services closed, Sorry we have left Gaza how are we going to do that? Mosques raided Where in Gaza? Sorry I don`t remember us being there! 6 dead in July 2008 Really Well according to Betselem your favorite organization there was only ONE killed in Gaza He has been killed when trying to cross the border in order to infiltrate into ISRAEL P/S By the way, Did you know that Gaza and WB are two different places, whit no connection with one another? The Party controlling Gaza (Hamas), despises the Party (government) that controlling WB and Vise Versa? Your answer clearly indicates, Not!

http://tabulagaza.blogspot.com/2007/07/gaza-foreign-entity.html A Knesset session held July 11th caught little media attention. On Wednesday Ariel Sharon's disengagement strategy came to completion. By being legally determined a "foreign entity," the Gaza Strip is no longer Israel's responsibility. The passed bill reads as follows, "Today, when Israeli communities cease to exist in the Gaza area, any Israeli activity in this area is a defensive activity in every sense of the word. In that case, there is no room for damage lawsuits from people who are residents of an entity which is not the State of Israel, all the more so from residents of an entity which sponsors actions against the State of Israel."

Quore: "...the arabs do not want peace. they want to subjugate israel and her jewish population..." Arabs, Pals want to be treated as equals, from the human point of view... not with the cruel condescention, and worse, that you and you colleagues on the right advocate... It's a comfortable stance into which you have barricaded yourself... accross-the-board-condescention... it will get us exactly nowhere...

There was truly a recklessness about the Gaza invasion. The massiveness, types of weapons and the civilian deaths all point to the absence of due caution and effective planning. Perhaps that is part of the reason for failing to cooperate with the Goldstone inquiry.

definitely take into account how politicians' decision-making shaped the war, and how the media and public figures fanned the flames with their own fiery rhetoric. Well done Aluf Benn.

The arabs decided to go to war by shooting 10000 missiles on civilian population. The real question is, who was too much of a coward to go to war much earlier.

The war on Gaza was not only a political move on the Israeli side, but it aimed to kill as many innocent civilians as possible. Why did Israel deem it necessary to make this a ground offensive? Inhibiting basic food, water, a medical services to reach those wounded? How do these efforts achieve anything? Israels main focus and main reason for entering war with the Palestinians is to wipe out as many as they can. So Israel can be fully Jewish state. What a shame it is to the extent hatred, greed, ethnocentrism leads people to do. No one is better than anyone and if the world doesn't wake up and realize all the wrong doing done by Israel... then the world is corrupt, just like them.

especially with implications drawn by barak and ashkenazi's adamant and overwrought opposition to it. AND...the israeli government is finding out more and more that 1) not cooperating with goldstone was a mistake, and; 2) refusing to conduct its own "independent" investigation is not only incriminating, but is likely to be extremely damaging in the long run. netanyahu is eventually going to yield to pressure. there WILL be an israeli investigation into the reports findings; it's just a matter of time.

please do not confuse anti likud with anti israel. i believe the crime is from the politicians not the idf. the crime was to use the idf to gain political advantage before the last election. the planners of cast iron were not stupid. they knew they would not get shalit back, they new they would not destroy or weaken hamas. the knew that the diplomatic outfall that israel expreriences would happen. but they were more interested in winning an election. what did barak achieve? there are still missiles comming into israel? please do not think that the right are only jews who are concerned about israel's survival. not one rightist has had the courage to tell the world what they intend to do with the 3.5 million non israeli arabs in the territories.if you feel goldstone was biased, which is possible, i did not read the report, let an israeli judges investigate. barak does not have the courage to do this, or israeli judges also anti israel.

"Hamas reduced the firing of rocket..the ceasefire was broken by the IDF in early Nov" Even mark ADMITS there have been ROCKET and MORTAR ATTACKS on Israel during Jun-Oct. And yet he does NOT count these ATTACKS as BREAKING the CEASEFIRE even though hamas SAYS the TRUCE was between ALL the groups in gaza and Israel. And when Israel FINALLY responded to ANOTHER violation - tunneling works from gaza INTO Israel - mark BITES onto this as Israel's FAULT and REFUSES to let go even in the FACE of his OWN admission. How TYPICAL of mark and the LIKES of him.

"Besides using wikipedia for the fire into Israel, you should use http://pchrgaza.org/files/W_report/English/2007/weekly2007.html to find out what was going the other way." Sigh. The "clam" was between HAMAS-controlled GAZA and Israel. WB is NOT part of the deal. flyingdoc57 is CORRECT that Israel did NOT respond to REPEATED VIOLATIONS of the calm by hamas & its affiliates till early Nov.

Benn seems to forget the years of rockets on Israel with no response from his party. He forgets about the kidnappings of Israeli citizens. I want to know why his party never responds to attacks and kidnappings. Benn remembers "palestinian" lives but jewish life is cheap and unmemorable to Benn. One kidnapping and one rocket should bring a reign of havoc on Gaza. Israel cannot afford a proportionate war with terrorists and the supporters who elected them. Like Amira Haas Benn thinks that jewish life is cheap and should be bartered in diplomacy and hostage taking rather than ended with force.

Who kept ignoring Qassams on Israeli civillians for years but immediately cried war crimes when Israel retaliated? Who were warned repeatedly of the consequences of their Qassams? Who decided to ensure civillians casualties by providing shelter for Hamas bosses only,while putting their civillians in extreme danger by firing from amongst them without uniforms? Those questions that need to be answered.

The Native Americans have no reason to pick a fight with the US government, because, unlike Palestinians they are not an occupied group. They are US CITIZENS just like everyone else in the US. If Israel wants to follow the US model, then they should officially annex all the land between the Med Sea and the Jordan River and make EVERYONE a full Israeli CITIZEN. I am all for Israel being a secular nation with both Muslim and Jewish citizens able to live and work ANYWHERE in the country.

that any political leader in Israel has the guts to take because the only way to actually stop this almost 100 years war is for Israel to give up lots of land, water and cash. This would mean the political leaders would have to use deadly force to clear the WB of all Israelis since many have vowed to not leave there alive. Since there is no leader in Israel with the guts and military power to take the actions that are needed to end the war by creating two states, the war will continue indefinitely (or until the US is neutered enough).

"November 2008....193. Israel response...NOTHING" "December 2008....602. Israel response..Cast Lead" Hmmmm, it's always easy to play the blame-game when you insist on starting in the middle. As in: 2) I threw a punch at you. 3) You did not retaliate. 4) You are therefore much more moral than me. Except...... whatever happened to (1)? Oh, Yeah! Sorry! 1) You threw the first punch. There was a dramatic escalation in rocket fire between Oct and Nov 2008 (from 2 to 193), but what you didn't mention is that those rockets were THEMSELVES the "Hamas response" to the Nov 4th Israel airstrikes and ground incursions that killed 6 Hamas men. The escalation therefore began because Little Ehud insisted on taking a stick and shoving it into a Hornet's nest. He must have know what the result would be, and so the only conclusion you can make is that this was the result he was aiming for.

acquisition by war? Any other normal country - sticks to it's sovereign borders rather than taking it's neighbours territory by war and illegal settlement.

Mark, Israel knows that military targets exist, in the West Bank and Gaza that live with "civilians." The hope was that people who did not consider themselves terrorists would go to a different part of Gaza. Only terrorists would stick around an area that they knew would be bombed. When German and Japanese soldiers in WW2 did not surrender but insisted on hiding among civilians and in churches, we blasted those areas with artillery and aerial bombardment. We figured that innocents would not hide with soldiers. Civilians were killed by the hundreds of thousands. Hamas members are soldiers of the Palestinian state. Palestine is at war with Israel. I remember Gazans breached the wall into Egypt quite easily when they wanted to. They could have done it again if they were opposed to Hamas. The Palestinians support Hamas. Hamas is a terrorist organization. Palestinians support Fatah. Fatah is a terrorist organization. Where is the Palestinian peace group?

When will people, like Mark Lewiston, realize that for Israel to give in to the Palestinians means the destruction of Israel? Why should Israel allow people who are sworn to destroy the Jews to be members of Israeli society? These pro-Palestinian posters have no understanding of history. No fact should ever stand in the way of what they feel. Do you all believe that the US was right to fight back against the Japanese after the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor? Yes or no. How many "innocent" Germans and Japanese died during WW2 because of what their leaders did? Israel has been attacked more than the US and fights to win without killing civilians, as much as possible. If Israel wanted to exterminate everyone in Gaza they could have done it easily. They could have conducted an aerial bombing campaign that would have killed everything in Gaza, with conventional weapons. Israel sent in ground troops to minimize Palestinian casualties at the risk of incurring Israeli casualties.

years.Israel showed restraint for a long time and the Israeli government allowed Hamas,voted in by the gazans to threaten the lives of their children for too long.So aluf, I ask you why are you not addressing the group that terrorizes Pals and Israeli's and the country, Iran behind them.Why are you addressing the victims in this, the Israeli's who failed to stop the rockets.Why not condemn Hamas? This one sided lacking partiality arguement is not going to solve anything and don't forget the Pals and arabs suffer the most from Hamas and the Islamists.

They target Hamas and Fatah for criticism, their detailed list of the Palestinian casualties of Cast Lead not only pretty much matches everyone (well, except Israel's unpublished list) in count, and when you compare the civilian/military ratios, you can tell whether the other people used definitions where all police were civilians, or all police were military. In their list, (which includes professions and civilian/military status) you'll find police officers in both categories. No anti-Semitism (unless you consider listing human rights violations anti-Semitic), except for referring to the occupying armed forces as an occupying armed force. BTW, do you happen to know the background of al-Jazeera's (english) managing director?

"The Goldstone report found that civilians could not reasonably have been expected to respond effectively to many of the warnings, especially since at some point it became known that designated. . ." - POA "The Mission examined how Israeli forces discharged their obligation to take feasible precautions to protect the civilian population of Gaza, including particularly the obligation to give effective advance warning of attacks (Chapter IX). The Mission acknowledges the significant efforts made by Israel to issue warnings through telephone calls, leaflets and radio broadcasts and accepts that in some cases, particularly when the warnings were sufficiently specific, they encouraged residents to leave an area and get out of harms way. However, the Mission also notes factors that significantly undermined the effectiveness of the warnings issued. These include the lack of specificity and thus credibility of many pre-recorded phone messages and leaflets" - Goldstone Still Israel tried.

"Either they were targeted, or Israel`s weapons systems and pilots are sufficiently imprecise or their information so unreliable as to render the policy indiscriminate." - Pssd Off American on Dense Inert Metal Explosive injuries. Given the small but high Pk nature of DIME bombs I would put my money on targeting/pilot error. The fact that modern Precision Guided Munitions are much more likely to hit a wrongly selected target is no consolation even if the affected area is smaller. "The reports that bombing sorties were terminated to protect civilians are ultimately sourced to the IAF, as far as I am aware." - POA There were numerous real-time reports in the world press traceable to Palestinian sources. A matter of pride in individuals standing up to the IAF. I never depend upon any single source when possible. I always try to gather as much information in real time to be able to weigh and weight it. Goldstone held no surprises for me.

why doesn't hamas etc send rockets into egyptian territory...they have a border, they control what goes in....why the emphasis on israel's border closure ?

israel does not need any of the gas found off gaza shores. she has her own deposits off of her own shores. Apparently not enough. Read http://www.jcpa.org/JCPA/Templates/ShowPage.asp?DBID=1&LNGID=1&TMID=111&FID=283&PID=1845&IID=1896 Quote: For Israel, the need for BG's gas may have already taken a toll. It is possible that the prospect of an Israeli gas purchase may have played a role in influencing the Olmert cabinet to avoid ordering a major IDF ground operation in Gaza, despite at least 1,000 rocket and mortar attacks against southern Israel since the Hamas takeover of Gaza in June 2007. Clearly, Israel needs additional natural gas sources, while the Palestinian people sorely need new sources of revenue. However, with Gaza currently a radical Islamic stronghold, and the West Bank in danger of becoming the next one, Israel's funneling a billion dollars into local or international bank accounts on behalf of the Palestinian Authority would be tantamount to Israel's bankrolling terror against itself. Therefore, an urgent review is required of the far-reaching security implications of an Israeli decision to purchase Gaza gas. Quote:

As former deputy director of the Medical-Surgical ICU at Rehovot's Kaplan Hospital, I have done more for critically ill Arabs from Gaza than you have with all of your pompous pious platitudes "for peace"!

An outcome of Gaza-War that nobody should underestimate is: If you win a Nobel Price you will be in the media for two days ? before that you will have to do successful scientific research for decades. If you win a F-1 race you will be in the media for three days - before that it takes millions of dollars for research, construction and advertising. If you launch a film about Michael Jackson you will be in the media for one week ? it needs a man who is known worldwide, it needs its fate and millions of dollars. If you launch a war and kill 1400 palestinians you will remain on the frontpages of international media for another 24 months. WAR SELLS (Anti-semitic? No, just bound to reality.)

The old joke amongst pilots is that the most dangerous thing in the sky is a doctor flying an airplane. They are very high accident rate pilots. The most common cause is flying into instrument conditions they are unqualified to handle. The usual impact follows loss of control and a tight, power-on spin. The human factor which causes the accidents is arrogance and hubris. p.s. When doctors go on strike, the death rate goes down. Go figure.

"No more rockets=Cast Lead success." - Schutze Staffel There twice as many rockets launched against israel this month than in October 2008. That shows that ultimately Cast Lead did nothing.

Cipora, the 'threat' from Iran is not existential. And existential threat only exist when the existence of a nation is in question. The threat from Iran is via proxy and while not trivial, is nothing like life threatening. Neither Israel or Iran can mount a significant attack against the other. Israel would become an international pariah if it were to launch a nuclear attack against Iran and even if Iran had nukes it would be destroyed by retaliation if it used them. People who terrify themselves make poor decisions. Such self-panicking behavior is the only existential threat to Israel, and then only because Israel is endangered by it's paranoia.

"maybe you didnt realize but GAZA is no more under occupation" - Dave Sorry Dave, the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the UN disagree with you. Israel has never surrendered it's rights as the Legal Occupying Power. It is unfortunate that there are so many mental defectives who cannot grasp that simple point, despite Israel NEVER having claimed that the Occupation had been ended. When Israel announces it has given up it's status as the Legal Occupying Power the Israeli Foreign Ministry will let everyone know. I promise.

damage from routine air attacks against rockets and tunnels, not to mention the blockade, which has its own quiet death toll. I confess to minimizing Israeli suffering in the south in an earlier post. I intended to make a point through hyperbole, but the post was cruel nonetheless. To label rocket attacks as a "crime against humanity", though, renders the term almost meaningless. Cast Lead is sufficiently outrageous as to deserve to be in an entirely separate category from the rocket attacks. To do otherwise is to demean the relative value of a Palestinian life. Numbers matter, and the shock of this large a toll cannot be blunted by the purported intent of either side. The false balance of terminology is an unfortunate shortcoming of the Goldstone Report, although I think the investigation was valuable, and the document is an asset to the furtherance of human rights for all involved.

evacuation areas and routes were in the vicinity of earlier bombing, if they had not been bombed outright. Such areas were predictably and justifiably perceived not to be safe. Such warnings cannot be said to be made in good faith. But aside from niggling over facts and evidence, why are you measuring civilian casualties relative to expended ordinance? That is not the standard used by international law and indeed most of global civil society to judge military brutality. The standard is relative to _military_ objectives. You seem to agree that the objectives were not military at all, but political (at best) or just good ol' fashion collective punishment. In any case, how are we to compare the putative military objective of stopping rocket fire, on the one hand, to a civilian death toll on the other? I submit that a reasonable standard is the level of threat to civilian life on the Israeli side, and that Israel had already gone far beyond saturating that standard with collateral

Hamas reduced the firing of rockets, primarily by Islamic Jihad, during September 2008, in October 2008 there was only 1 rocket launched against Israel. This continued until the ceasefire was broken by the IDF in early November a month or so AFTER Israel had determined the date it would attack Gaza. November and December saw an escalation of tit-for-tat attacks by both sides and finally the Lead was Cast. Since the end of Cast Lead Hamas has been suppressing rocket fire and Islamic Jihad complaining about it. No, the information about rocket fire into Israel is still pretty easy to find.

ilians showed DIME's distinctive wound pattern is all the more damning. Either they were targeted, or Israel's weapons systems and pilots are sufficiently imprecise or their information so unreliable as to render the policy indiscriminate. The Goldstone report found no evidence that Hamas fighters used civilian human shields. The reports that bombing sorties were terminated to protect civilians are ultimately sourced to the IAF, as far as I am aware. I can only treat such reports with severe skepticism, as I treat all military PR activity. The way to corroborate these claims is through independent investigation of the IAF, through Palestinian testimonials, or through Aljazeera (being the only network actually in Gaza to witness to the bombing). I'd be happy to check out your best source. The Goldstone report found that civilians could not reasonably have been expected to respond effectively to many of the warnings, especially since at some point it became known that designated

Thanks for your detailed replies. At the risk of accomplishing even less today, let me respond: I never claimed that killing the maximum number of civilians was the prime mission objective. Only that killing a large but politically manageable number of civilians was among the objectives, which was attained through specific policies regarding targeting, munitions, and rules of engagement. The allegation coming from Breaking the Silence is that there was a widespread undercutting of the rules of engagement by the command structure. To confirm this requires a credible investigation of the IDF, as enlisted men would not have a bird's eye view. My understanding is that DIME weapons are not well suited to destroying buildings, but rather vehicles and personnel. Thus targeting civilian areas with DIME weapons appears to be intended to maim and kill, and Israel should have to show that it was indeed targeting combatants. If the blast radius is so small, then the fact that so many civ

is there one country in the whole wide world whose country is bombarded by rockets daily for years,that would not go out and wage a war against that enemy?so Aluf,what kind of idiotic question is this? any other normal country would not only have waged war on Gaza,but would have completely annihilated and destroyed it israel should have done to gaza what the allies did to Dresden and Hiroshima. this article proves once again that,leftism is nothing but an extreme mental disease,that should be eradicated before it spreads and kills us all

the so called cease fire hamas offered was nothing but a ruse to give it time to build more terror infrastucture and dig in deeper with more weapons...a 10 yr 'hudna' I believe it was...in return for what? listing the siege that hamas brought on themselves? and now they want a ceasefire? COWARDS! LIARS! So israel should accept a 10 yr ceasefire which really is just a chance to keep arming and planning for the day they attack.... god there are some feeble minded anti semites on this site....

all of those establishments you speak of are known parts of the terror infrustructure...sure, hide in mosques, store weapons in mosques and schools, use kindergartens to launch rockets...what else...hmmm...hospitals to hide criminals,ambulances to run arms.... maybe you should go live in sderot?

Your argument is DOA and you're losing altitude fast. Quick, you must eject from the aircraft, or in this case, from the argument. Hit the eject button, AKA, call the other party anti-semitic, and slowly back away from the wreckage left in the wake of your flawed reasoning.

You have the chutzpah to use the Palestinian Center for Human Rights as source? Are you kidding me? What's the matter, was the Al-Jazeera website too busy? What other little gems have you obtained from that website,Mr.Pearce. Let me guess: There was no holocaust. Jews never stepped foot in present day Israel prior to 1967. The people of West Bank and Gaza are all starving. Jews drink the blood of Arab babies as delicacy. The only people killed in Cast Lead were women and children. All the world's problems, all wars, all disease, all weather disasters...They're all because of the JEWS. 500 civilians were killed by suicide bombers in Iraq, Afhanistan and Pakistan during the past THREE DAYS ALONE, mostly women and children. I'm gonna take a shot at who was REALLY to blame....DA JEWS!! Am I right, Mr. Pearce? Isn't that what your Palestinian Center for Human Rights will say? It's always us pesky, filthy, war-mongering, land-thieving JEWS who are making life miserable for the world

But is in fact more all encompassing. Goldstone did not even consider whether Israel was justified in launching their blitzkrieg. Whether they deliberately sabotaged the ceasefire with the US and Israeli elections clearly in mind. That the meticulous planning from early 2008 had its natural denouement at the end of the year, so the ceasefire HAD to be trashed when it was. The biggest crime of all that Israel ignored Hamas offer to extend the ceasefire longer term, in return for a lifting of the *economic* siege. This is par for the course. Israel also contrived to destroy calm in 1982 on the northern front so as to provide a pretext to invade Lebanon. To those who wish to inquire honestly, Israel is an open book.

(1) Israel never should have waited so long to respond to rocket attacks from Gaza. (2) Gush Katif should never have been forced from Gaza by the Israeli government. (3) Israel shouldn't have left Gaza until Hamas is destroyed. (4) Third intifadah - time to go back into Gaza - this time, for keeps. Chazak v'amatz!!

I pray that all the innocents that lost their lives RIP, on both sides.

I think you're deluded. Israel broke the ceasefire, the UN reached that same conclusion, though as usual, Israels sycophants in the US media never gave that fact much traction - that's the thing about the news you obviously rely on - IT'S NOT BASED WHATSOEVER ON REALITY, and therefore, your contribution to this forum is just boilerplate, never getting at the heart of the matter, which goes back some 60 years to the day that will live in infamy for not just Palestinians, but for the world at large, who will one day look back at the failed state of Israel and wish they had left Israel to its own destruction much sooner.

You wrote Hamas rockets/motars in: July 2008.........12. Israel response...NOTHING I guess 6 dead, 56 wounded, Mosques raided,social services closed, businesses closed, TV station raided, medical centers raided, school raided, school buses stolen, housing destroyed (by shelling or demolition team) (official actions) 1 wounded, land stolen (with IDF support to prevent objection), crops burned (unofficial actions) is NOTHING to you. Of course, it would make your whole argument a little hard to take seriously if you didn't ignore things like this. Besides using wikipedia for the fire into Israel, you should use http://pchrgaza.org/files/W_report/English/2007/weekly2007.html to find out what was going the other way.

...apparently, THAT had nothing to do with the war.

Did you just compare Israel bombarding Gaza in response to a few rather pathetic rockets, (a ceasefire which Israel broke about a month before by the way) to arguably the most decisive defensive battle of World War II? Statements like this really reveal the state of psychotic dementia and complete irrationality that so much of the Israel public has completely fallen into.

hypothetically, if the native north american indians held a grand elder tribal council and they decided to start to indoctrinate, train and then send their kids into your US cities from the sanctuaries of their reservations(like gaza), and they demanded that all irish, scottish, italian, french, german, and british and other immigrant americans go back to their original countries or else face rockets and suicide bombs, what would you do? what would you demand of your govt? only difference is, the land of israel was always historically for the jewish people whereas your land you live on was really stolen... so? what would you do? leave? next question; if all jews in the world were killed by muslims, and there were no more jews on the planet, do you think the muslims and specifically the arab muslims would finally be peaceful? answer honestly....or is that too problematic for you....

The November rockets were a respond to the bombing of the tunnel, no? So why the escalation? That is the point of the article. Everything is timing.

The number of casualities was accurately meassured, why else make an operation, if the intention is not to sow fear and desperation, and that has been sufficiently accomplished.

the facts do not lie...only those anti semites you listed lie... it's as plain as day...the world is a mess not because of israel, for israel always existed and is a wonderful example of a brilliant, moral humane hard working family oriented civilization where things like art and education matter more than sucide vests and rockets...No, the world is a mess because of arab intolerance, arab incompetence, arab backwardness, arab jealousy, arab immaturity, arab racism, and on and on... spin a globe and stop it randomly with one finger and you will almost surely find a spot on this earth beset by arab/muslim violence.

After Israel withdrew unilaterally from Gaza in 2005 Hamas won the parliamentary elections and demonstrated that it could hold the cease fire, even in the face of countless Israeli provocations like the hundreds of targeted assassinations. Those who fired Qassam missiles were mostly non-Hamas parties. The cease-fire between June 2008 and November 2008 again was properly adhered to by Hamas, even when Israel's siege of the Gaza Strip became more ruthless. Israel could have obtained quiet for Sderot by engaging with Hamas, but its policy has always been to destroy Hamas politically and engage in colonial divide et impera policies to be able to justify ongoing colonisation of the Westbank.

first, that 'territory' was given back in 2005 and the rockets only advanced.. second, that territory, which was in 1967 under egyptian control,was used to launch a war intended to annihilate all of israel, and so that territory as you like to say was legally won in a war..and was offerd back many times in return for full recognition of israel's right to exits...but you failed to go back to 1967 to understand how that territory became "occupied"... cooper, it seems like you really are lacking in your understanding of history...go figure, I guess it's too painful for you to look in the mirror at how you brits really screwed up the middle east...

Your mantra of "self defense" rings hollow - it has for some time now. The reason Hamas was ELECTED into power was because they could no longer trust their plight being in the hands of quislings like Abbas, who, as we have just seen, torpedoed the chance of the Goldstone report resulting in Israel being held accountable for its premediated murder of 1500 Gazans last December. You do know that Operation Cast Lead had been planned well in advance, don't you? Every time it's the same Israeli whine - they're firing rockets...yada yada yada. Snore.

that is why israel will not leave the west bank any time in the near future. israel does not need any of the gas found off gaza shores. she has her own deposits off of her own shores.

Hamas rockets/motars in: July 2008.........12. Israel response...NOTHING August 2008.......11. Israel response...NOTHING September 2008.....4. Israel response...NOTHING October 2008.......2. Israel response...NOTHING November 2008....193. Israel response...NOTHING December 2008....602. Israel response..Cast Lead If you, Mark Lincoln, Chris Linthwaite, Swiss Dino, BSNews, Roo, CJ, Sullivan, Durson, Maureen Ann, and the other dozen Israel-bashers here don't see the justification of Cast Lead, that's too bad. Cast Lead was completely necessary, and has resulted in a dramatic (~95%) reduction in the numbers of rocket/mortars from Gaza. Indeed, it was successful beyond Israel's own expectations. If you don't like the fact that the rockets have all but stopped, that's too bad. YOU do not live in Sderot. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2008

i much prefer a diplomatic solution. however, i do not see any possiblity of a diplomatic solution at any time in the near future. there are too many impediments in the way, including iran, hamas and the ill-conceived and awkward obama initiatives. it is quite obvious that since abas did not accept the most far reaching deal ever offered by olmert, the chances of reaching peace with the palestinians are essentially nil.

isr didnt go in to an other peoples land occupied it. it was a defensive move than jordan Egypt rejected truce didn't want land back that s all! no palestinian state liberation mentioned or existed before 67!

I cannot see any Difference between "the savagery happening all over the muslim World" and the settlers against the Idf, and others at this moment, wait until they matured later TOMY. Now imagingine if this Muslim Savagery happening here .

Cipora, does it not seem to you that these type of wars such as Cast Lead and the Second Lebanon War are temporary respite without solving the problem through a diplomatic concession of creating a fair agreement of two-states side by side as originally planned? To suggest that they enhance a form of deterrence continually decade upon decade hasn't really worked for Israel. I don't know about you, but I'm interested in an end of conflict and if this means achieving it through what the majority of moderates would like to see, that is, two states side by side negotiated by the parties (who ever represents those parties) then that's the process of reaching resolution to a region of conflict.

i am referring to the threat from iran. that is what the israeli leadership is preparing for.

If hamass beat Israel in Gaza Cast Lead would there be ANY Israeli inictments... of course not...nor any Hamass accusers of war crimes...besides Cast Lead was NOT a war...it was an ISRAELI POLICE ACTION (well deserved and very late in coming!by the way) to go after "the brutal loose cannon factions" ...of course not related to the regular brutal criminals in Hamass.

maybe you didnt realize but GAZA is no more under occupation and even without the occupation they attacked israel with suicide bombs and rockets and they get the blocade as an answer... the blockade is not the cause of the attacks its the attacks who caused the blockade! everyone saw how hamas sees a gesture from israel to make peace its an opportunity for them to attack take over divide and dominate the pals u can defend pals ill join u but if u defend hamas you re not defending the people u defend the other oppressor its like france who kicked out the king and get the emperor instead they re not different at all!

fire from others one must not OCCUPIED other people's territory.That SIMPLE,

battered by IAF , and they were in precess of rearming with much more potent weapons as it showed during the operation . They did not have those long range missiles before . Try to be a little objective and understand the nature of that society . Or just read the newspapers every day to see the savagery happening all over Muslim world . True , those are not all Arabs , but they use the same manual .

Yes Israel had to pummel them to get the message across. Israel certainly should have a right to protect itself and respond to attacks. Unfortunately, the existence of a Jewish homeland is a very complicated subject. Some don't think it should be, but it is, and they will have to accept it. The Jewish people are vastly outnumbered & still only tolerated around the world. Jewish survival through the millenia is largely attributed to, YES Jewish determination to survive - but sadly, it is also attributed to the generosity of the larger world religions. It is hard to accept that. The "New Israel" is still young and still testing the waters. How much freedom does it have as an independant country? The global response to the Gaza retaliation has answered that. Around the world, anti Zionist sentiment has been quickly spread: by word of mouth & global media. The Jewish homeland must exist in global harmony or the globe will turn against it much quicker than it would against any other country

Barely a day has gone by during the past few months without at least one post from you claiming that Cast Lead was a total failure. For the past week, you have been spouting figures from OCtober 2008 and October 2009, wherein only one or two rockets were fired during each of those months. Your (fake) conclusion is basically this...'See, Cast Lead was a total failure'. How about recognizing the following facts. During 2008, Hamas fired 2,903 rockets and mortars into Israel, representing dramatic increase in numbers from 2007 and 2006. Since the end of cast lead 9 months ago, Hamas has fired some 250 rockets/mortars. Why don't you compare THOSE figures? Kind of blows your whole show, doesn't it. Why don't you compare the numbers of rockets from January through June of 2008 to the numbers from January through June of 2009? You won't do THAT, will you? Why point to October of 2008 in the first place? Israel didn't attack Hamas in October of 2008. Israel attacked in December of 2008!

you live it texas, right? so, hypothetically, if the native north american indians held a grand elder tribal council and they decided to start to indoctrinate, train and then send their kids into your cities from the sanctuaries of their reservations(like gaza), and they demanded that all irish, scottish, italian, french, german, and british and other immigrant americans go back to their original countries or else face rockets and suicide bombs, what would you do? what would you demand of your govt? only difference is, the land of israel was always historically for the jewish people whereas your land you live on was really stolen... so? what would you do? leave? next question; if all jews in the world were killed by muslims, and there were no more jews on the planet, do you think the muslims and specifically the arab muslims would finally be peaceful? answer honestly....or is that too problematic for you....

Europe is open minded overall , but suffers from Ero Tunnel Vision , you mention , only when it comes to Israel . I would like to see what Swiss and likes would say if Sderot would be a Swiss city under fire , and he could not finish peeing in 15 seconds because the alarm sounds continuously for eight years .

"you can be sure and certain that netanyahu, ashkenazi, barak and dagan are all thinking of the next move." - Cipora Those guys have not had a new move in 20 years, and for 20 years the old moves have failed miserably to improve the situation. Netanyahu and Barak are both failed Prime Ministers who continue to repeat failure because they have not got a clue what to do.

"WHY the HAMAS bombed southern Israel continuously for some 8 years?" - ask? Because of the warm, benevolent and merciful occupation by Israel? "Also why AB and OTHERS did not ask the Israeli Govt. to undertake steps against Hamas earlier?" - ask? Is it uncomfortable being a mushroom in a cave? It's nice and quiet, the dark is restful, and the food nutritious, but one gets so little information. Too bad you were prevented from reading Haaretz and Aluf Benn for the last couple of decades.

"it is not possible to "crush hamas and destroy its ability to rule in gaza." - Cipora Wrong, Israel does not want to pay the cost of doing so. IT would require massive amounts of manpower and a huge financial drain on the economy. Sharon realized that the cost of suppression was too expensive and decided to try Occupation Lite. "it would require the conquest of gaza, at the risk of huge casualties among the civilian population and aming the idf." - CJK Yup. That is the cost of remaining the Legal Occupying Authority. Get used to it. The other alternative is also unthinkable to Israel. So both sides will just go on bleeding. Not my choice, but I don't have to make the choice. Israel has, and as with any who sow the wind, they reap the whirlwind. No use whining about it. The ONLY solution which allows Israel to take all of Judea and Samaria and have peace with Occupation of Gaza, is a final solution. And that too is a price Israel will not pay. So be it.

RIGHT QUESTION, needs answering. Per IDF's own website, Hamas had brought rockets to almost zero in the months before Israel's attack on Gaza. Hamas was effectively clamping down on spinster groups. Yet I bet those missile charts are NOW hard to find. There was no reason for escalation, except to derail peace efforts.

"Compare the 1995 Israel-Palestine Liberation Organisation Interim Agreement with Sharons the unilateral disengagement and you will see that it was the disengagement that made this war possible." - Traud Sharon's UNILATERAL, (i.e. disallowing any influence by the PLO) plan was published in April 2004. The actual disengagement went down between August and September 2005. Rocket attacks from Gaza started in April 2001, three years before Sharon proposed disengagement, and over four years before the disengagement happened. You will have to find a better excuse than disengagement for the rockets Traude.

amazing that people still don't get it. why would the palestinians fire these rockets into israel? what is the reason? are they honestly stupid enough to think that these rockets will ultimately destroy israel? of course not. this is a continuation of what has been going on since 2001 - an attempt to lure israel into using force, creating 'massacres' (saeb erekat on CNN after operation defensive shield "its a massacre! its a massacre!"), and then create a climate for international intervention (ie Kosovo, Yugoslavia) to force israel to do things israel doesn't want. Stop and think! terror can be stopped by other means than sending 10,000 soldiers to kill 1000 palestinians! israel must be more creative and rely on less overt force, because this is exactly the kind of confrontation the palestinians want. Israel is exactly in the position the serbs were in before they became a complete international pariah and lost kosovo. THINK!

you can be sure and certain that netanyahu, ashkenazi, barak and dagan are all thinking of the next move. they all know that the existential threat to israel comes from iran and her proxies. the only one who is clueless is the left, including the newly minted nobel winner.

"Unfortunately, we rarely here from the "moderates" because if they exist beyond a handful, there is not an environment that permits this kind of free speech. " - ankhfnkhonsu I think you are wrong. Reliable polls show the majority of Israelis and Palestinians are agreeable to a peaceful two-State solution. Those moderates receive little coverage in the western and especially the Israeli press. This I feel is more a matter of cultural bias and national politics than anything else. Unless one regularly monitors the 'Arab' (and other) press one is given the impression there are few if any 'moderates'. Again this is untrue, but due to a lack of coverage in the West and Israel unappreciated. There are plenty of Israelis who were less than happy with the way Cast Lead was promoted and sold. Just as there are many Arabs appalled by the loss of life due to terrorism. Just don't expect to see it on Fox.

WHY the HAMAS bombed southern Israel continuously for some 8 years? Also why AB and OTHERS did not ask the Israeli Govt. to undertake steps against Hamas earlier?

israel's remnant left, in its zeal to discredit the netanyahu government, takes positions that in fact undermine the entire state. we all know, except for the remnant left, that operation cast lead, was necessary to put a stop to the reign of terror coming from gaza and destroying the lives of the civilian population in the south. we all know that hamas had, by the time of the operation, acquired from iran and syria long range grad missiles which reached ashdod and ashkelon. the purpose of the operation was to restore deterrence and to achieve calm for as long as possible. the operation also had for goal to send a clear message to hezbollah, syria and iran. there is no doubt that regardless of the goldstone report, israel will respond with overwhelming force to any attempt to wage a war against her from either lebanon or syria.

War is seldom a black/white thing. Especially a war that is essentially 60 years old and a very hot war for the last 20. There are many who wish to see only that one side is pure, the other utter evil. To them the fact that SOME Palestinians commit war crimes and that SOME Israelis commit war crimes is proof that 'they all do it.' Not so. Occupation inevitably coarsens and brutalizes both sides, occupied and occupier. The nature of combat ensures a few war crimes will happen no matter how honorable or compassionate the combatants. The Goldstone report is not a blanket accusation against Israel, nor does it exculpate Palestinians. Cast Lead was a top-down Goat Rope. It was a disaster for BOTH sides. The damage to Gaza was prompt, and Israel's continued blockade has prevented the evidence from being hidden by new. For Israel it is a disaster of immense proportion, growing daily, and not yet near it's full scope. Worst of all, the situation today differs little from a year ago.

The question that you ask is like this one: "A guy sets a building on fire, and the fire dept. responds but can't save the building. Who is responsible for the building burning down? the firefighter's who couldn't figure out how to save it, or the people that elected the mayor who didn't make sure the firefighters could put out any blaze?" The answer, of course, is the guy who set the building on fire. But he isn't part of your multiple choice. Euro-tunnel vision?

it is not possible to "crush hamas and destroy its ability to rule in gaza." such a goal would require total victory of the kind only achieved by the allies in wwii. it would require the conquest of gaza, at the risk of huge casualties among the civilian population and aming the idf. israel would never have the political support necessary for such a war. furthermore, israel has enemies on her north which are stronger and just as ruthless as hamas. israel, therefore, has to manage her wars with due caution. she cannot risk diverting too many troops to her southern border. iran has just bought mini subs from north korea and given them to syria and hezbollah. quite obviously, the major threat to israel comes from iran and its proxies. barak and ashkenazi know what they are doing.

"4. The fact that Israel could have killed more civilians does not mean that sincere efforts were made to protect them." - POed American The basis of my opinion is upon what WAS done, what WAS targeted, when, and how. That the amount of fire power used resulted in so few deaths amongst civilians could not have been accidental. The casualties were well below what would have been expected, and there is substantial evidence that Israel for the most part avoided deliberately killing civilians. "I suggest to you that a goal of the operation was to cause as much death, destruction, and suffering as this political cover would allow." - POA Destruction and suffering? Certainly. The patterns of attack show that. Death? No, the low casualties for expended firepower over time show that was not a prime goal. The IDF proceeded slowly with intent to allow evacuation of not only civilians, but terrorists in order to limit IDF casualties as well as Palestinian.

There was no alternative, for the ultimate goal is not to stop the rockets but to get control of the extensive gas reserves off the Gaza coastline discovered in 2000. Compare the 1995 Israel-Palestine Liberation Organisation Interim Agreement with Sharons the unilateral disengagement and you will see that it was the disengagement that made this war possible. Do some google search and some maths and you will see I'm correct.

It seem that it is you that are confuse. Palestinian terror existed prior to 1967,and there was no occupation then(unless like Hamas you consider Tel-Aviv to be occupied territory). If you would have stop the terror like magic you'll have a state,and stop whining to the world.The subjagation of the Palestinian by Jordan,only resolted in terror against the israelis.stop finding excuses for Palestinians terror in Israel and other places(Lebanon,Europe and the US)and you may gain the respect of non Muslims.

"Deputy Defense Minister Matan Vilnai`s promise in 2008 to bring a "shoah" to Gaza; publications distributed by the IDF rabbinate instructing soldiers to "show no mercy"; testimony collected by Breaking the Silence that soldiers were widely instructed by their officers to shoot indiscriminately, or in some cases to simply "kill Arabs" outright." - Pssd Off American No question these accounts are true. They were reported in the israeli press. I never said that there were not some commands and commanders who engaged in war crimes. I never said that there were no Israeli war crimes. Overall, I do not see a pervasive effort to murder civilians, rather a massive effort to destroy civilian infrastructure.

What an incisive analysis. You forget though that the IDF while having the means to deal with hamas, was and has been kept on a tight leash for years.. why was that Michael? Oh yeah the eu and others were pissed at ISrael for killing palis never mind these same palis were blowing up bar mitzvahs pizza parlours loaded with people. No war crimes were committed by Israel. If Israel committed any war crimes, then the US, UK, France germany all are equally as guilty for their crimes in Iraq, Afghanistan etc. But i forgot people only want ISrael to be convicted why because like you Michael, they are anti semetic jew haters. Being in canada clearly clouds your mind with the NDP type of soft thinking get out in the real world michael

"2. There is substantial evidence that phone calls were not "sincere" warnings, but served mainly to harass and terrorize, sometimes causing multiple needless evacuations of a. . ." - POed American So said Goldstone, and this is probably true. There were also far more examples of civilians evacuating to see their homes destroyed. There were also well reported instances of civilians standing on their roofs and the IAF not striking the target, which might account for some of the examples you cite. I ANY CIRCUMSTANCE if Israel had intended to maximize the kill of Civilians the strikes would have gone down in the wee hours of the morning with catastrophic results.

"hamas' only purpose is to fulfil the 'will of god'" the problem is not with the will of god, but with the will of hamas. no one knows the will of god. hamas, like all fanatics, wants what their rigid ideology dictates. your constant whining about the gaza disengagement only shows the impotence of the left. you want israel to take responsibility not only for her own actions, but also for the actions of her enemies. people like you lack moral clarity. you fail to acknowledge that regardless of what israel does, she is blamed. the arabs do not want peace. they want to subjugate israel and her jewish population. there is not a single arab state where religious minorities are accepted. as you implicitely acknowledge, the fight between israel and the palestinians is a religious war. the reason for the original refusal of partition was a religious one. the idea of a jewish state in the heart of muslim middle east has never been accepted by the arabs.

Middle East. Unfortunately, everybody gets on this stuff, including all those who don't demand the same standards as the other countries and organizations in the region. Of course, its a bit like the debate over muslim moderates and muslim extremists. Unfortunately, we rarely here from the "moderates" because if they exist beyond a handful, there is not an environment that permits this kind of free speech. In fact even in the West, any kind of like-minded analysis by a muslim elicits a death threat. This is rather ironic.

"Israel actually went to some pains to avoid killing civilians." - ML "Really?" - Pssd Off American Really. I watched with intense interest, and monitored MANY news sources as well as doing my own photo analysis. There are MANY apartment buildings still standing in Gaza because the residents did not leave and instead stood on their roof tops. IAF bombing sorties were terminated rater than kill innocents just to destroy their homes. "1. Israel caused civilian deaths at a level that was entirely predictable and indeed inevitable based on the methods used." - POA Nope, Israel could have easily killed ten or twenty times as many people with little more effort if killing civilians had been a prime objective. You need to find out about the Probability of Kill P sub k of weapons systems. Systems such as the M270 are capable of shredding every soft target in a wide area. Dense Inert Metal Explosives give an intense PK over a small radius. Guess which was used most?

First, the Gazan Arabs voted for Hamas because of Fatah's corruption along with Hamas being involved in projects helping the locals out. It was not a message for pro-terrorism or pro-fundamentalist Islam. Second, you both seem to ignore Hamas' attempts at a cease-fire before Israel's invasion. One does not have to be on crack to know this.

This is going live on for another yeaar or two. Affecting diplomatic efforts and running the country. The IDF will go through many self-reflections and analysis in the months to come. For me, the timing is increbily suspicious -- in Bush's "exiting time", when the world's econommy melted down; and before Obama's arrival. It's like teen-age kids doing stuff, when the parents aren't looking.

Mr. Aluf Benn is asking the important questions that should have been asked before and during Cast Lead. The question he does not ask, and was most frustrating during Cast Lead is "Who decided that Cast Lead would avoid paying the price necessary to crush Hamas and destroy it's ability to rule in Gaza"? The same mistake was made during most of the Second Lebanon War. The infrastructure of Lebanon was targeted, but the fast driven hard fighting on the ground was avoided until the last days of the war. When the necessary was finally done, the cost was high, but many Hisbollah rocket launchers and weapons dumps were overrun and put out of business. Until then the rockets fell with savage effects. If Hamas is the problem, and it certainly is a problem, why was it not subject to the kind of attack necessary to decimate it's capabilities? The answer is clear, in both cases the government attempted to wage war without engaging the enemy effectively. War on the cheap is war that fails.

See: "Olmert: we won't just defend against Gaza terror, we'll attack' - Haaretz 9/12/2008 "Barak: Israel will act in Gaza when time and place are right" - Haaretz 11/12/2008 "ANALYSIS / Israeli deterrence against Hamas is weakening" - Haaretz 8/12/2008 ('Vice Premier Haim Ramon contends that the Hamas government in Gaza must be brought down, and that . .") There were many statements published in the US and Israeli press during the fall of 2008 which expressed the determination of Olmert, Barak, Livni et al to bring down the Hamas government and destroy the ability of the organization to wage war. Sorry if your convenient post-Cast Lead amnesia prevents recollection. Much as folks forget that the stated objectives in Lebanon were to turn the Lebanese against Hisbollah.

"Why did Hamas continue to fire missiles into Israel's population centers after Israel's total disengagement from Gaza?" Because, CJK, Hamas' only purpose is to fulfill "the Will of God", - the same as our own Yesha Council - and ending the plight and suffering of their people is the very least of their concern. Only an Israeli PM who did not know all that could have abandoned Gaza behind him, while publicly humiliating the man elected Chairman six months earlier, calling him 'a featherless chick' and an 'irrelevant partner'. This is where, inter alia, we, you and I, differ. It is now clearer than ever that, of Sharon's mental capacities in summer 2005, your opinion is much poorer than mine.

"Whether you are always right or wrong in your actions is subjective and so is irrelevant." (Jason) This is what Slobodan Milosevic believed too. We all know where it led him to. You surely sound quite anxious to see an Israeli PM dragged to the same place, for all the antisemites to claim "See the true face of Zionism."

Israel gave ample notice to the world of what it intended. Most of the world thought Israel was justified, and I still do. How long should Hamas' illegal war crimes have been tolerated? Not many countries would have had the patience of Israel. The crimes lie with the Arab Muslims in positions of authority who did nothing. When are Muslims going to wake up to the fact that their lives mean nothing to these demented leaders? The next time women, children and the elderly will be allowed to exit into Egypt, even if Israel has to make new "gates" to let them out. The Mohammed cartoon are back in the news. Too bad if they make Muslims mad. The truth makes Muslims mad. The one I liked best shows Mohammed in heaven peering down from a cloud with the caption "It's hard to be loved by idiots."

Once again the far left apologists for the terrorists are attempting to protect the wrong people. Shame on the Israeli government for waiting so long to initiate the Cast Lead offensive. Shame on the leftists who would rather the people of Israel die than to fight back against death worshipping madmen. Aluf, the inquiry that the government should be conducting should deal with the question of why did it take so long to end the terror. You cry for Arabs who voted for terrorists. My question is why do you care so much for the safety and property of the enemy than you do for your own people?

"Proportionality", David M? It would have been proportional to bomb Gaza for the same length of time that Gaza has been launching rockets into southern Israel. Proportional would be for Israeli soldiers to deliberately target elementary schools and gymnasiums where athletes work out. Proportional would be killing the next Palestinian Olympics team. If a petty crook robs my store, I kick him upside the head. If he kills a member of my family, I wouldn't think twice about wiping out his parents, siblings, and the family dog. (Well, maybe not the dog.)

It was matter of IOF (Israeli Occupation Forces) being under big pressure of loosing the War against Hezbollah.

It must be asked. By far the simplest was to open the Gaza crossings and let supplies in, thereby continuing the ceasefire and beginning a political dialogue with Hamas. If that was too imaginative, the right military response to rockets was to occupy Gaza city and N Gaza district, thereby denying the launch sites and reducing their offensive range. Rather like the Canadians and Brits did against the German V rockets on the Channel coast. It would have needed about 14,000 troops to secure the area, so not impossible. Not sure it could have been done in time, or with the minimal casualties, required to fit the election requirement, but Israel did have several years to think about it. Or they could have pulled civilians back out of target range while going after the rockets, not much point leaving Sederot in the firing line year after year. Cast Lead was the worst of all options, a deliberate attack to punish civilians and, through that, Hamas. It hasn't even stopped the rockets.

Why Israel decided to go to war in Gaza?. For the same reason that the US and UK went to war in Afghanistan.The Muslims will never have peace unless they will cauterize the cancer in their midst.Be it in Iraq or Afghanistan. Pakistan or Gaza.The fact that some of Haaretz posters"legalize" their countries killings of civilians,and demanding Israel to stop their war against terror change nothing.If one choose terror,one should expect to be hit.One terror act(9/11)is the reason for NATO forces invading a sovereign country,and killing of hundred of thousands civilians.THAT WHY!

building and later destroying it without warning. 3. You seem to ignore ample evidence that the IDF command specifically chose to harm civilians: Deputy Defense Minister Matan Vilnai's promise in 2008 to bring a "shoah" to Gaza; publications distributed by the IDF rabbinate instructing soldiers to "show no mercy"; testimony collected by Breaking the Silence that soldiers were widely instructed by their officers to shoot indiscriminately, or in some cases to simply "kill Arabs" outright. 4. The fact that Israel could have killed more civilians does not mean that sincere efforts were made to protect them. The Israeli leadership may misjudge the limits of US and European diplomatic largesse, but it knows they are there. I suggest to you that a goal of the operation was to cause as much death, destruction, and suffering as this political cover would allow.

I typically find your posts to be reasoned, critical, and informed, but this time I am really appalled by your characterization of Israel's policy. "Israel actually went to some pains to avoid killing civilians." Really? 1. Israel caused civilian deaths at a level that was entirely predictable and indeed inevitable based on the methods used. In such a case, distinctions based on "intent" are meaningless. The decision to use bombs in the heart of Gaza's population centers with blast effects over 100s of yards (rendering the whole notion of "targeting" meaningless) indicates the intent to kill indiscriminately. So does the destruction of hospitals, as the reduction in Gaza's health care capacity inevitably leads to excess deaths among the old, sick, and wounded, both during and long after the assault. 2. There is substantial evidence that phone calls were not "sincere" warnings, but served mainly to harass and terrorize, sometimes causing multiple needless evacuations of a

Not everyone may agree, but self-respect and others respect comes from strength. The strength that comes not just from conviction, but the physical capability and willingness to use it against a foe. Whether you are always right or wrong in your actions is subjective and so is irrelevant. As Teddy Roosevelt said: "Walk softly and carry a big stick." But I would say that occasionally it is ok to swagger. Protect

of course. He questions Aluf's right to pose questions and suggests he backs off before he gets himself in hot water. "This is non of your business, leave it to the appropriate personnel". Listen Corporal, in democracies people have every right, indeed a civic duty, to ask difficult questions of their government. It's called 'free speech' and is generally encouraged in enlightened nations. It becomes doubly important where alleged war crimes and a government cover-up are involved, surely? Your attitude would be more at home in Iran on N Korea, they tend to shoot people who speak out or, heaven forbid, question the fuhrerprinzip. Silencing critics within Israel would achieve nothing anyway, the questions AB is posing are exactly those being asked all round the world by governments, people, the UN and no doubt the ICC.

Why are you all so obsessed with the war in Gaza which was started with good reason. 100s of people have been killed in the past few days in Iraq and Packistan yet no one says anything against the arabs waging war on themselves. I guess no Jews are involved so there is nothing to complain about.

If Philip Weiss is right that "Cast Lead" refers to a Hanukkah poem, then the timing of the beginning of the operation -- not only during Hanukkah, but also during the interregnum between the U.S. election and the inauguration of the new U.S. President -- was decided at the time the operation was given its name. When was it given that name?

Israel went into war because the thugs on the left thought they would win the elections by doing so.

What none of you seems able to grasp is the total lack of proportionality of the Cast Lead response. If a petty crook robs your store, do you go out and machine gun his entire family?

if it wasnt for hamas sending thousands of rockets into Israel, there would not have been the need for Operation cast Lead Now there's a thought !

"What other country would put up for years with thousands of missiles being fired into its civilian population?" (S. Holmes) What other democratic country is disputing its land to a foreign and stateless population? Name only one other country, whose democratically elected leadership is still trying, after 42 years of unending failures, to acquire territory by force of arms? Do face reality, even if it is painful. It is right before your eyes. When we took control, in June '67, of this stateless population, we, misled by deluded leaders, were denying is very existence as a distinct people. After 42 years have passed, we are now challenged by a tiny Palestinian islamist enclave we cannot live with, nor defeat -- after we had to hear from a US Secretary of State, "The Palestinians deserve to live under better conditions than they are subjected to, and be free of the humiliation of occupation, in a state of their own." Condoleezza Rice, Haaretz Oct 12, 2006. "Reality is merely an illusion, although a very persistent one." Albert Einstein.

"What other country would put up for years with thousands of missiles being fired into its civilian population? How much restraint can one govt display? " If the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza lived free from Israeli subjagation, had a country of their own, and didn't have to fear more and more Israeli settlements encroaching on their lives....then, perhaps your question would have validity. Unfortunately, Israel has treated the Palestinians very poorly the last 40 years....so please, let's deal with that and then, like magic, you will have security and can stop whining to the world...

The last Israeli whose word was worth anything with regard to seeking peace, was Rabin. And he was killed for it. Even Mubarak came to Israel for his funeral.The same man who refuses to speak to Lieberman and his ilk.

Hamas continued to fire rockets at Israel after the disengagment because Israel continued and in fact tightened a comprehensive seige on Gaza....dah? I am sorry, it is the Jewish State's right to lay seige on Gaza, I forgot. Why did Hamas do the border raid where they captured Gilad Shalit (not kidnapped, captured)??? Dah, are you ignorant. They did this as a way to put pressure on the Jewish state to free thousands of Palestinians rotting in Israeli jails with no trial or charge. Cipora, are you really that confused to not already know the answer to these questions?

I support every word! The public has a right to know the answers to those questions.

The qassam rockets launched by Hamas that killed Israeli children such as Dorit Benisian and Yuval Abebeh are to be the first to blame. Secondarily the people who are close to Hamas such as teh Syrian Leadership, Iranian leadership and even Turkish PM Erdogan who considers Khaleed Meshaal his friend are also responsible because they could have used their friendship and influence to stop Hamas from launching these rockets to Israel but they did not do it, therefore they have some responsibility too. And finally the ordinary people around the world who stay silent to Hamas atrocities but raise their voice when Israel defends herself such as Swiss (Dino) also have some small responsibility in it.

by Israel's ruling political elite of the time to improve their standing in the elections to be held in Israel a month later. The fact that Cast Lead was extended numerous time by the politicians as they saw their approval ratings rise with each dead Palestinians is what has caused Israel to be where it is now. Caught between a rock and The Hague. But the only people who can be blamed for this are the Israeli politicians that made it happen and the Israeli citizen who enabled it.

'Aluf Benn', what position do you hold that you seem to demand answers to your very sensitive questions. If your designation is not of a high authority in the government or the IDF, just back off before you get yourself in hot water. This is non of your business, leave it to the appropriate personnel. Dont stir the pot.

since everyone has questions i have one for swiss dino: how much re u payed for daily writing here and bashing israel cuz i'm searching for a job can i join you of caurse on the opposite side. if u re not payed can u name the jew who kicked ur ass in ur school maybe i can meet him and be friends... if ure not kicked by a jew in school can you tell me about ur nazi family who run away to switzerland? im writing an article as school project maybe i can use the info if ur family was not nazi germans can you send me ur blood samples i hava an other science project maybe i can find ur antisemite allel and win the nobel prize? or if none of it is true just tell me what is ur motivation to daily write here and bash every move of the state of isr? just curious really ur story should be interesting. see u Swiss dino if u re really in switzerland we can even meet and talk im just in france next to the geneva border lets meet in geneva what say you??

Real courage is not a man with a gun in his hand, real courage is when you stand up for what is right no matter what the cost, real courage is when you know you are licked before you begin but you begin anyway. Aluf Benn shows real courage when he stands up against the majority opinion in Israel. The free world is on Aluf Benn's side. Solution is to let all the the human beings in Palestine-Israel Vote, 2 states, 1 country.

if hamas wanted to lift the siege on gaza they could have stopped very easily the suicide attacks they were waging in to israel, they could have agreed to agree with israel by not violating the ceasefire and any supply would flaw in to gaza! WB there is no attacs from there WB is richer than ever now! its hamas responsibility now cuz its not a terror org only its apary in the ''gov'' who has responsibilities for its people its hamas who failed to be a government! Israel is no more the occupier in the gaza therefore has no obligation to supply there or leave an open border! 2ndly isr has any right to control its border gaza border is the line before 67 so a legitimate border! isr can decide to let it open or not! the only illegitimate and undecided border of gaza is with egypt! hamas like any other gov should agree instead of firing rockets to keep its borders open! they cant agree with egypt which they call brother and when it comes to not agreeing with isr its israels fault?

What a pathetic artcile! Aluf Benn forgot daily rockets from Gaza into Israeli cities. When allies bombed Germany at the end of WWII, did they consider there would be hundreds of thousands civilian casualties? Did they a choice though? Did Israel has a choice?

first of all, benn is a traitor. he should be arrested and banished to gaza as punishment. as for elections, I say good if hamas wins in WB and gaza..then at least he truth will come forward, and this whole charade can be dispensed with ...personally, I think israel was far too soft in cast lead and should have pushed all the way in...having said that, the rockets have stopped, so yes, it was a success..also, seeing hamas cower, their leaders hiding while their so called civilians faced the music, well, that was priceless. what cowards ... the simple truth is, the liberal left in israel is no longer precisely because the arabs continue to betray them..PLO ESTABLISHED in 1964, and there you have it....so tell me, what exactly is "occupied"? as for liberals in america, suuuure, they can afford to be eh? ha!

Who decided to go to war in Gaza? People of the Israel. why? Because life in the South of Israel became impossible under everyday rocket rain from Gaza. Who is responsible for this situation? Aluf Ben personally promising peace and advising to leave Gaza. Now he advises again.

True , the Olmert government and all previous Israeli governments have to be investigated aggressively , because WE want to know why did they let the whole South of Israel be terrorized for such a long time , why did not they started the Operation Cast Lead years before , and especially after gangsters of Hamas took charge of Gaza , as a potent deterrent to Arab terror . We want to know exactly what kind of political reasons , political infighting's , were holding back Israeli army , whose duty is to protect , the purposely targeted , civilian population . And WE do not care about Goldstein or Aluf , their questions designed to sidetrack the real issues and pervert justice . WE want answers to our legitimate questions now !

Why do Hamas attack Israel. What is the reason? Are they genuinely evil and enjoy killing people? or is there soemthing else driving them. Why do Israel kill hundreds of women and children in Gaza? Are they genuinely evil and enjoy killing people? or is there soemthing else driving them.

It's in the aftermath of such wars that we see the great costs when the political and diplomatic arena are not utilized to the fullest potential and perhaps neglecting to counter the habitual response of military use. Because this is the Israeli way, no? Supposedly the terror of launching Qassams unto southern Israel was continuing in response to activities in the West Bank - essentially not stopping construction of settlements and resuming negotiations, indirectly with Hamas via the PA. The cease-fire could have been extended. The mere fact that Hamas participated in a cease-fire meant agreeing to negotiations. Hamas went about showing that they were a force to contend with by their "force", smuggling weapons through tunnels, etc. and that this was the way Israel would surrender to their forces of terror. But Israel never has so this was Hamas's mistake. Such cyclical ongoings for decades are expected when a lack of a violent response would not be interpreted as being brave.

It will show that in every case, the hudnas were broken by Israel, or Israel carreid out a provocative military action that caused Hamas to respond. Israel has never responded to any overtures from Hamas declaring them a terrorist organisation with whom no talks would be permitted. Of course, they said the same thing about the PLO but then did enter into negotiations.

And what did they get? That Hamas will win the next election in Gaza, WB etc with a landslide.

At the time Israel broke the ceasefire, Hamas rockets had dwindled to a handful. The big question is why Israel decided not to renew the ceasefire, the paltry price of which was opening the crossings, and instead launched an air attack, thus guaranteeing that hostilities and rockets on Sederot would resume in earnest. There is no plausible military or diplomatic reason. The only possible explanation is a political one: Olmert, Barak and crew wanted a public relations victory that restored their damaged prestige after Lebanon 2 and showed the smack of firm leadership for the election. The heavy-handed methods used to achieve it were militarily worse than useless, as few insurgents were killed or Hamas control weakened, all we saw was a punitive attack on buildings and infrastructure that resulted in shockingly high civilian casualties. The political and military leaders sure have some questions to answer. That's why they will do everything to block and subvert an independent inquiry.

An excellent outline for a book I would hope to see as a best seller. Please get to work on it !

According to Goldstone, there need to be investigations into the IDF and Hamas. Which impartial and independent judiciary is going to fully investigate allegations of war crimes by Hamas? Aluf Benn [ any connection to Tony Benn?]seems quiet on this point. Having Hamas HQ under the main hospital in Gaza might look suspiciously like using human shields. Firing missiles from schools and civilian apartment buildings might look suspiciously like endangering non-combattants. Storing arms and missiles in mosques and schools might violate the Geneva conventions. Who is going to run the parallel judicial investigation into Hamas ?

IF terrorists fired missiles into Russia or America, how long would it take to respond? Days? Hours? Not seven years! If missiles were fired, after how many would Russia or America respond? One? Two? Five? Not 7,000! How long can civilians be expected to live in and out of air raid shelters without being traumatized?

I don't know who, but I can tell you why Israel embarked in such a bloody quest: to plunge Gazans into desperation so they would force Hamas out of power, as well as to reduce Hamas' influence in Palestinian politics. Hamas was seen as too a strong, uncorrupted and popular resistance group to let it lead the "peace process". Of course, getting votes also had weight in Livni's and Barak's decision.

A few more questions please. What other country would put up for years with thousands of missiles being fired into its civilian population? How much restraint can one govt display? Could Israel have an Iranian backed base in Gaza any more than the USA could have a Rusian backed base in Cuba? How much did the UN do to stop missile attacks on Israel?

Who is to blame for the (never ending ??) political "mess" in Israel....??? The incapable politicians, or the Israeli voter, who keeps on electing the same old incapable politicians again and again, and again and again...???? I assume most folks would agree with me, that it's probably rather the latter one....

Before there are a few commission which need more critical answers first - The list is too long so but oslo will be a good start - Given the devastating effects of Oslo - why was negotiations done against a stand anding Knesset law, what assessment was done re brining terrorist into the country and arming them, why was PA incitement for hatred not foreseen and if foreseen not handled in the accord, why was it done with no referendum, why did they not put in place mechanism to control PA financing terror infrastructure, etc ,etc many Why - if a commission was set up when terror occurred at the early days of post Oslo perhaps Gaza would not have occurred at all.

"Are Israeli liberals up to making that kind of deal and keeping to it?" - MoL Israeli liberals made Barak the head of the Labor party. They never have recovered from losing power and as far as anyone can tell are all nematodes and other spineless creatures.

WHO DECIDD TO GO TO WAR IN GAZA? Do these ring a bell.... Hamas, Fatah, Plo, Moslem brotherhood, Arab states, Iran and all moslem/Islam nations, Arafart, Abd-El-khader Al-Husseini and those that follow the same charters and ideology, we could go all the way back to Muhamad himself... AND HERE IS THE, WHY? They HATE Israel.... Hope that answered your question Benn...

But not to the Israeli politicians and defense-establishment. And since they are the ones in power we can forget about it.

... the situation... it really does not matter what your professional credentials are... ... you will invariably reach the narrow conclusion of a confirmed and 'proud nationalist'.

Aluf Benn wants to know "if those who gave orders to the IDF assumed that hundreds of Palestinian civilians would be killed, and how they tried to prevent this." I asked something similar yesterday in a post re Jim Jones: "Were recent events foreseen when settlement freezing was refused? Are the recent events - ... the handling of Gaza war (beyond the first few days when Barak wanted to stop),..." unexpected ...?" Indeed, this is fundamental for the future of Israel. Anyone thinking of the next moves?

Actually they called the houses of terrorists themselves warning their families to get out as well as the civilians living inside the buildings. Israel wasn't targeting the civilian infrastructure, but the terrorists who lived in it, and their weapons. They didn't call civilians so that they could destroy their houses for the fun of it, but to kill Hamas members, who had been sending in rockets to S. Israel for 8 years

ML:"Before the operation the world, and Israel, was told the objective was to be the destruction of Hamas." Really? I don't remember anything of the sort. Please supply your reference.

... that we don't tout around... ... they don't necessarily back-up or legitimize what you have to say...

Hey Colin - you wrote "When one indiscriminately shells densely populated areas, herds civilians into buildings and then blows them up, and shoots down women and children at point-blank range, it`s pretty clear what one is up to." That's the Palestinians you're talking about, right? Certainly sounds like them. They are the ones who fired thousands of rockets indiscriminately at civilians. (If you were in artillery or the air force, you'd know that these days there's no such thing as "indiscriminate shelling" since you have to pick a target, document it, and account for it). I thought you were talking about both Hamas and Fatah, who are on record for killing mothers and their children at point blank range in cold blood, then making hero posters of the killers. It's pretty clear that all those Palestinian war crimes (remember, Goldstone is the one who concluded they were war crimes, not me) were legally just cause for an Israeli defensive attack. If you don't like it, blame Hamas.

Before the operation the world, and Israel, was told the objective was to be the destruction of Hamas. Hamas was not only not destroyed, it was hardly harmed. To take on Hamas would have meant BIG casualties and the government did not want to face elections in a month with BIG casualties. Instead the IDF sought to destroy as much infrastructure in Gaza with minimal casualties. Thus Hamas survived and has prospered. It is firmly in control of Gaza and TWICE as many rockets were fired at Israel in October 2009 than October 2008. If destroying Hamas was the goal, Cast Lead was a failure. If rockets were the cause, then Cast Lead was a failure. Cast Lead did give the Israeli public a Shock and Awe Light Show for the elections. But it was a miserable failure by the standards of the results stated before the war. It didn't even save Kadima from losing the elections.

As Jon said, what about the rockets?.It seems that revisionism is at play here.All these do gooders who are now so enlightened should have lived in Sderot for the past 5 years and perhaps they would have a different slant on it.Goldstone's report has done immense damage and a monumental injustice to Israel and these type of after the fact questions that Mr.Ben is raising helps only our enemies.

As I recall, Mr. Benn was very supportive of Cast Lead at the time and non of these questions was raised by him prior to, during, or immediately after the operation. Mr. Benn had plenty of time to consider these questions since and particularly after the Goldstone report came out in favor of commission of inquiry. Mr. Benn shhould inform the readers why now, what caused him a change of heart? Is it conscience or expediency?

"You assume that killing civilians was not the purpose of the operation, and was not seen as a good thing." - Colin Wright It was not. The destruction of their homes, businesses, the means of supporting life, schools hospitals and public utilities was. Israel actually went to some pains to avoid killing civilians. For example many people were phoned to warn them that their apartment buildings were to be hit. This required some forethought as one needed to acquire their phone numbers. And that indicates that the IDF was aware no terrorists were present, otherwise they would not have been warned. Thus Israel's efforts to avoid civilian casualties - sincere efforts - also prove that the targets were known to NOT BE MILITARY TARGETS. Thus those efforts to avoid civilian casualties are unequivocal PROOF that Israel committed war crimes and crimes against humanity. You are wrong Colin Wright, had Israel wanted to kill civilians far more would have died.

And putting these questions you know already the answer of it,the truth about what happened.And of course Olmert bears the first responsibility.It is time that once for ever Israel will stop with her deterrence (terror) policy based on the shameless theory:"The master became crazy".And the question of the today situation in Gaza:It is possible to put a population of 1,5 millions in a sever shortage of food,oil,drugs?Cant this receive any justification.And is not clear even in this moment that a government which can take these kind "of security measures" is able to make any damage to the Palestinian people including any massacre .

The real question that should be asked is Why does Israel always pull back before achieving military victory in all of her encounters. All that has been achieved is a temporary quiet until her enemies become strong enough to provoke her and start another round of attacks.

You want answers to these questions, you need a different Knesset. You won't get them from the Cheney-clone body you elected. Somehow Israeli liberals have to team with the Israeli Arab sector and make a deal promising real reform and real de facto equality if the Arabs turn out and vote in proportion to their population. With 20% of the cabinet as their prize. You'll also probably have to promise an open housing law with teeth. Only with an entirely and wholly new government with some real differences will you have a chance of getting the information. And you'll have to hope the files aren't destroyed during the transition. Are Israeli liberals up to making that kind of deal and keeping to it? I'm skeptical.

Hamas wanted the war, promised victory and Israel's Stalingrad. Thousands of rockets over 8 years and of course Shalit. Mr. Benn, you have the wrong address, try Hamas and ask their leadership and or the Gaza street what they expected. They expected victory. But, the only thing for certain is that even if Sdrodt were evacuated, or if a school took a direct hit it would not matter. There would be the the UN condenming Israel, Haaretz would not be out done in the vitriolic blame of Israel, and there would be no Goldstone, that is the only certainty.

why did hamas continue to fire missiles into israel's population centers after israel's total disengagement from gaza? why did hamas decide on the provocative and illegal cross border raid into israel and kidnap gilad shalit rather than get down to the business of governing and improving the lives of gazans? is hamas sadistic? why was the so-called international community, including the un, its member states and the hrc, totally silent in the face of this terror aggression by a listed terror group against a sovereign member state of the united states? what did the so-called international community expect israel to do in th face of such aggression when even the resident building of avi dichter was bombed? when the leaders of european countries came to israel during operation cast lead to show their support, were they honest? or were they dishonest and bending under the pressure of arab petro-dollars. will iran, the state sponsor of terror entities be allowed to have nukes

Israel has never had a chance in the UN and if not for the US Veto we would of be overwhelmed by the Arab attacks on us. Did you know Israel is the only UN member state who cannot sit on the Security council,,,, even in the world community the jew will be singled out... quit trying to please these jew-haters and stand strong for who we are.

The reason why is obvious...The only question is why did it take so long to go to war? After Israel's stupid unilateral decision to leave Gaza (without accords or guaranties)the first Arab aggression, the first kassam should have been answered by military operations. If Kassam had for instange a range of 5km. we should have created a buffer zone of 5km. If 10km. a 10km. buffer-zone etc..Inaction from the start lead to fullscale war!

... towards the requirements of the Gladstone commission, somebody in the IDF always cuts it off before it becomes effective... ... it would be a great day for Bibi if he were not to succumb to the belligerent/self-protective attitude of the IDF brass...

Israel went to war b/c it was attacked. Sure its great to minimize enemy casualties, but any states' responsibility is to protect its citizens - full stop. Everything else is secondary. Enough with this obsession with the Gaza war - Israel didn't start it, did its very very best to warn civilians, and frankly the outcome, in terms of civilian casualties, was pretty damn impressive.

'...I want to know if those who gave orders to the Israel Defense Forces assumed that hundreds of Palestinian civilians would be killed, and how they tried to prevent this...' You assume that killing civilians was not the purpose of the operation, and was not seen as a good thing. Considering that the operation opened with an air strike on a graduation ceremony for traffic cops and went on from there, that assumption seems unwarranted. When one indiscriminately shells densely populated areas, herds civilians into buildings and then blows them up, and shoots down women and children at point-blank range, it's pretty clear what one is up to. Isn't it?

the decisions made by israeli politicians, particularly barak, omert and the chief of staff need to be investigated becuase this is where the crime originated. they jepordised israel's credibility and standing not for security but for internal political gain. they were very aware of the diplomatic damage this would do to israel, but they were more interested in their own political careers.the idf is very smart and could have dealt with the security issues at different time and probably in a much more surgical operation. the ignoring of cease fires from hamas is very interesting.

Now HAMAS knows that the consequencies of QASSAMS will follow. Where was Aluf Benn, Haaretz Correspondent, during the sleepless nights of Sderot children?

rockets....you left out rockets... for 8 yrs. and before that it was buses, and before that, airplane hijackings....how curious that you don't touch on any of that, nor on hiding behind and in between so called 'civilians'...can you say human shield? and what if those so called 'civilians' were a willing party to it? Hmmm, is that possible? I wonder.... damn, I hate when you guys put out all the facts and context! seems like you and 'goldstoned' think alike....incredible the lengths to which you will go to justify your guilt. Maybe ask hamas, your friends, what territory they mean when they say "occupied"....start there...or you can start with 1964, the year the PLO was founded, curiously, 3 yrs prior to israel occupying gaza or west bank...what do you say about that? just what exactly IS occupied...come on aluf...ANSWER!

And questions like Mr. Benn asks don't.

I must point out that these same questions were proffered to Haaretz talkback forums during the period from November 2008 to January 2009 and in many if not most cases were suppressed. This was not by accident. Either Haaretz, or others, did not want these questions asked, especially before the war when a disaster for both Israel and Palestine might have been prevented by serious questions as to whom wanted what and why.

The New York Times was once the most respected and trusted newspaper in the world. Then it chose to be a facilitator, an active participant, a willing pimp for the Bush Junta in promoting the lies used to justify the Iraq War. Haaretz, and the rest of the Israeli press served - and debased itself in the same fashion - the same part in Cast Lead. While it is not possible at this time to save honor, it is still possible to save a shred of reputation. This article by Mr. Aluf Benn, might, but probably isn't, a beginning to that end. We will know by what replies are censored and what are allowed. If only the most rabidly anti-Israel posts are allowed, while rational support for Benn is suppressed; yet ANY post denouncing him is printed, then the truth will be out. If that is the case then Haaretz will have made an effort to save face, while substantially proving itself feckless.

You are an anti-Israel, Anti-Semite Mr. Benn. Your questions come too late. When it was revealed long ago that the decision to mount the attack on Gaza to coincide with the police academy graduation in October, BEFORE Israel ended the cease fire your questions should have been asked. When a war was forced BEFORE the Israeli elections and a new US government was to take office, your questions should have been asked. "Who decided to bomb the flour mill and sewage treatment center in Gaza, and why?" - Aluf Benn Let me guess, Khalid Meschal? "Did Olmert weigh the expected damage to Israel at the United Nations when he rejected the Security Council's call for an immediate cease-fire?- ibid Of course not, other wise UN shelters, warehouses and offices wouldn't have been targeted either. "Where did Olmert disappear to on January 13 when Barak and Livni could not find him in an effort to offer a cease-fire? " - ibid Where did Haaretz go as Olmert, Barak and Livni created a war?

Ehud Barak correctly said the political fallout would be enormous. He knew this because it woud engender a massacre of innocent men, women, and children. He knew that atrocities would occur, they always do when the killing starts. Yes, Israel is guilty of these war crimes. The question remains. Why do this? Can it be that only the most criminal behavior can bring about the lance that punctures the pus bag? Was there no other solution? Israeli politicians, terrorists and zionists are in for a very violent payback. World-wide. The sooner the better. Salaam/Shalom

shouldn't fire rockets. Those who elected Hamas to represent them are solely responsible for both the Israeli and Arab civilian casualties. Physician scientist and proud IDF officer.

I want to know if you happened to be like me and 120000 other in ashkelon and i want to be what the hell is mater with you after so meny roket fly in my city to ask a stupied question like this this operation is giving me and many a night sleep now they start in north i want to know when all haaretz like you gideon amira and rest of you stop writing

answers to some of your other questions b) cease-fire? There never was one c) 8 years of katyushas, still waiting for a diplomatic solution? Is opening borders for a terrorist entity really an option? d)political question, who the heck cares e)restoring deterence is secondary to protecting Israeli civilians, period. f)its war, civilians are killed. I agree that rhetoric proposing the purposeful targeting of civilians would be a problem here.

But don't hold your breath waiting for any answers.... Any independent investigation that asks your questions will kill of the careers of Barak and Ashkenazi, and they know it. And since Bibi will not hold such an inquiry against their wishes then it simply ain't gonna happen.

The Gazan Arabs decided to go to war when they voted Hamas into power. Hamas decided to go to war With 8,000 rockets. Israel did not decide to go to war. Israel decided to assert its right of self defense and its obligation to protect its citizens.

Your questions won't get answers. It ain't gonna happen. But, may the Force be with you!