A clear stand vis-a-vis Hamas

In the spirit of your criticism, how did polar bears get to be such experts on international affairs?

Talking to Hamas reminds me the way we talked in Concentration camp to some of our German guardians, they knew well that one day they will murder us but in the mean time there were reasons to consider us for the exchange of cigarets or whatever else they wanted on a personal level.What is there to tolk? They say quite openly that the final talk will be with the gun.

Of course Terrorists can run in democratic elections. Sharon did. Bagin did.

The full text of Said's quote: "In my opinion, their ideas about an Islamic state are completely inchoate, unconvincing to anybody who lives there. Nobody takes that aspect of their programme seriously. When you question them, as I have, both on the West Bank and elsewhere: 'What are your economic policies? What are your ideas about power stations, or housing?', they reply: 'Oh, we're thinking about that.' There is no social programme that could be labelled 'Islamic'. I see them as creatures of the moment, for whom Islam is an opportunity to protest against the current stalemate, the mediocrity and bankruptcy of the ruling party. The Palestinian Authority is now hopelessly damaged and lacking in credibility?like the Saudis and Egyptians, a client state for the US". We lose a great deal by not considering the argument that HAMAS are "creatures of the moment." That is, they thrive on the PA's weakness and corruption and the occupation's brutality. How to get beyond HAMAS? Not by a weak and corrupt PA that is trying to isolate them; not by more occupation.

The adage: "when the cat is away the mice will play" fits the Zionists' bandwagon. Look dear Israeli peaceniks! Jews are in a state of exile and are under a sacred pledge with their G-d, Yahweh, not to create a stae by force ahead of the arrival of Messiah. Ask the Rabbis, "Is it true?" If it is, can Israelis be tricked by Sharon and his ilk in playing hide and seek with Yahweh? An eminent Jewish writer, Chaim Bermant has summed up the inherent Jewish apprehensions in his bestseller Book: "The Jews", thus: "If we take world Jewry as a whole, it can be said with fair honesty that they've never had it so good. They know it, which is the source of their apprehensions. Can it last? There is no reason why it should not , other than that it has not in the past. And it is Jewish history, rather than immediate threats, which is the source of apprehension. To which one must add that any apprehensions about the future of American Jewry are not half as deep or as widespread as apprehensions about the future of America itself..." Chaim Bermant also sounded a caveat: "Jews were rarely in control of their destinies and where they impinged on history it was because they were in trouble or troublesome." A 'profane' and illegitimate state of Israel needs forgiveness through repentance to Yahweh. As for"Hamas", Israel itself had created it to divide the Palestinians. But real threat to Israel lies not from Hamas but from Yahweh. Hamas can still be turned around as a peacemaker, but what about Israelis themselves? Chaim Bermant comes in again with a comment: Judaism is essentially wholesome and benign, as long as it is distant from power. If there should ever be peace between Jew and Arab, there will be one almighty settling of accounts between Jew and Jew." I am pursuing, in my individual capacity as a lay man, with convincing arguments for Palestinians to voluntarily vacate the WestBank for the peacenik Israelis and the Rabbis, in a peace truce as a goodwill gesture. Palestine is too small for a "Two States" formula. Even "one is too many" there. Furthermore, Jews are not known to live together and get along. And as for the "Al Quds Al Sharif" it is marked for the battlefield of "Armageddon". The key to the future course of history lies with the Arabs. They have a golden opportunity to turn the Jewish community into the proverbial "Goose that lays the Golden Egg" as did the Turkish Sultan Bayzid when he threw a welcome mat to the fleeing Jews from Spainish "inquisition". Strange, indeed, are the twists and turns of history! I highly admire the Jews, especially for their genius. Sher Mohammad.

Now all of a sudden it is facious? What happened in that street was real and you refuse to acknowledge that Khalid. Like you twist other things from history.

At the risk of being very unpopular ... The radical Likud is more extreme than Hamas. Hamas has for some time displayed a willingness to consider the value and wisdom of outside secular ideas. The radical Likud will not. Hamas, at least since February, has not carried out any attacks unless provoked. Even when attacked, Hamas has shown remarkable selfcontrol in the name of the Palestinian people they want to represent. The radical Likud has been ordering and approving all sorts of raids, incursions and assassinations under the guise of "suspected militants." Hamas is considering a consolidation plan that, in effect, would disband all independant militias. Likud is considering a consolidation plan that would make permenent most all of the West Bank settlement colonies. Hamas knows that its charter is becomeing more and more irrelevent and has talked of modifying it. Likud refuses to let go of their platform forbiding any soveriegnty except Israeli betwen the river and the sea.

Whatever you say so.

Tulip, other Israel right-or-wrong supporters: My time is too valuable to be spent answering or responding to unserious questions or facetious remarks.

Khalid, you are simply wrong in the most fundamental way. I'm no fan of Likud, but to call the Likud more extremist than Hamas is an exercise in Orwellian doublethink of the highest order. Khalid, you need some kind of mental reset.

In all that I have read about hamas , I would not ever want him for a friend and I don't think anyone should trust him or believe anything that he says

Stephen Murray -- As you know the problem with Israel is that it is always trying to change the "facts on the ground" like the \the indigenous peple of Palestine. Yet it has the audacity to ask the world to recognize their "new realities on the ground." What hypocrisy! Dutch

CAMERA is a propagandist organ of the extreme. A couple of years back CAMERA ran full-page ads in many major US newspapers. Only the most simple of minds couldn't see that they used doctored photos to promote outright lies ... way beyond hasbara. Unless, of course, Israeli TV regularly uses English subtitles to translate Arabic verse.

Cop may be indicted in Mt. Scopus case http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1131367057195&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull What's your point?

I am curious because this is more or less the same question I ask you on topic nr. 3

According to Khalid, Islam existed in Adam and Eve's times.

Colin. Stick to surfing. Your perspective and opinions are so biased and untrue and unreal. When your two Twin towers were destroyed by Osama and Company, Americans would have gone all over the world to kill and maim in revenge. Think about that. Afghanistan, Iraq, Panama, Grenada. You Americans are very good at manipulating the entire world to do your dirty work and have things your way. Don't throw sand unless you are wearing goggles.

"Straw men" assassinated by the IDF? You wish. Clearly a major frustration of the terrorist enemies of Israel is the former's inability to match the latter's investigatory and tracking abilities. The result? Overcompensation by slaughtering innocents COMPLETELY uninvolved in the disagreement. There is no way to ever make that OK, no matter what the struggle.

Khalid, You wrote, "A Hamas-free election would be a false and sham election. It would be like barring a the Republican Party in America from running in the elections in the US." This is an incorrect analogy. Republicans and Democrats differ strictly in terms of ideas. Barring Hamas from participating in Palestinian elections would be the equivalent of the existing ban on felons in participating in American elections.

Hamas will never come to power; not through peaceful elections. Israel will see to that. If it does look like Hamas is going to win, Israel will carry out enough provocations to create enough bombings and ambushes in response to justify Panzer Israel swinging back into action. Gee, no elections -- and 'no viable negotiating partner.' Where have we seen this before?

Abdullah in Nablus, stop spreading more lies. It does not help! Your quotes are ficticious and you know it!!! These quotes have already been proven to be false! Read what "CAMERA" says about this: "Did Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon vow to burn Palestinian children and rape Arabic girls? Did former Israeli leader Menachem Begin refer to Palestinians as ?two-legged beasts,? and did another Israeli leader declare that all Arabs must be killed unless they are willing to live as slaves? No, but given the number of Web sites repeating these allegations, it is easy to see how this nonsense has gained credence. Indeed, the attribution of invidious statements to Israel?s leaders has become a popular stratagem among Israel?s enemies. Many are fabricated, taken out of context or otherwise manipulated to present a distorted, negative view of Zionist intentions and actions. Propagated on the internet, some of these misquotes eventually make their way into opinion columns in campus newspapers and even, on occasion, the mainstream press." Read the research at: http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_article=766&x_context=2

No hairs split Stephen. The accords were suspended in part because of the IRA demand to retain its arms depots. It was also found to have been spying on the legislature in Northern Ireland. For the record, though talks went on, no agreement was reached until the violence stopped. HAMAS isn?t even holding out for retaining its weapons. It actively attacks Israeli civilians. Moreover, the IRA never called for the total destruction of Great Britain. HAMAS and Islamic Jihad do. Peace requires obligations on both sides, not just seeing Palestinian rights and Israeli obligations. Show me where the Palestinians have met even the most basic obligation.

Khalid, You wrote, "Hamas never ever said it wanted to kill Jews or eradicate Jews." The Hamas Covenant declares, "The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him." You also wrote, "No body under the sun, certainly no Muslim, would be willing to come to terms with racism and apartheid." In the meantime, Article 32 of the Hamas Charter states of the Jewish people, "...Their plan is embodied in the 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion', and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying." The "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" is one of the most notorious anti-Semitic works ever published. In effect, Hamas draws upon this hateful work to build a case for its destructive and deadly ambitions. Hence, Hamas, to use your language, not only "comes to terms" with racism and hate but also embraces it. Finally, you wrote of an embrace of racism, etc., "This doesn`t lead to peace, it leads to moral suicide." Not surprisingly, Hamas has built a literal "cult" of murder-suicide in which killers who commit suicide in the process of attacking unarmed and innocent civilians are glorified when in reality they should be condemned for their crimes against humanity. In the end, if Israel is to meet Palestinians' need for land by giving the Palestinians most of the West Bank (in addition to the Gaza Strip), Palestinians should be expected to meet Israel's basic need for security. That means, rather than providing mere promises for land, Palestinians should dismantle Hamas and its infrastructure through which its hateful designs are advanced.

Never said he was a true seeker of peace Yaacov (whatever that?s supposed to mean). But reality is reality. Sharon did withdraw from Gaza. Facts on the ground, as they say. Reality also is this, the so-called ?rejectionists? of HAMAS and Islamic Jihad that you coddle, do indeed continue to wage war. The emptying of the arms depots in Sinai was real. The firing of Qassams is real. The call to walk away from its self professed ceasefire is also real, as is its numerous calls to continue its war for the whole of Israel as soon as the organization is able. All real Yaacov. So as for the calm, I haven?t seen any. I have seen the suicide bombs, shooting attacks, and rockets into Sderot. I have seen 1 year after Arafat?s death that Abu Mazen has yet to even begin to stop the violence. But he has made sure to voice his inability to do so without sufficient Israeli payments. It?s a two way street Yaacov. One of obligations on both sides as well as rights. Unfortunately for people like you, you seem to see only Palestinian rights and Israeli obligations. Apparently, you who thrill at the likes of Edward Said, find only condemnation for Sharon. So better the settlers should have stayed in Gaza? Better Sharon should have what? Gone in with guns blazing and level Gush Khatif? Is that what you truly hoped for? Some Jew on Jew blood-letting? One has to ask just what happened to you in Israel that was so gut wrenching that you can softball groups like HAMAS and Islamic Jihad, while placing a monicker of fanatic on the settlers.

there is only one responce worthy of hamas. Targated assainations. think of the rockets fared at hamas as chemotherapy

1. Yassir Arafat's letter to Yitzchak Rabin signed before the Oslo accords ... 15. Suicide bombing - Afula 1984 ... 12,587 Palestine Authority signs on to the International Community's Road Map to Peace in the Middle East (June 2003) "without reservations"... 13,756 Abu Mazen repudiates Phase 1 of the International Community's Road Map to Peace in the Middle East (July 2003) forgetting that he originally boasted that the PA had no "reservations" to the plan... 22,548 Official PA television broadcasts a sermon from Sheik Ibrahim Mudairis, a Gaza preacher who describes Jews as a "cancer spreading around the world." Yet another violation of Phase 1 of the above repudiated Road Map. 23,512 Quasam rockets fired at Israeli towns as Israel disengages from Gaza ... 23,876 Abu Mazen says the PA might get around to disarming the terrorists some day soon, efsher maybe say after the elections in Janury 2006. 23,877 In the meantime, another suicide bombing, more incitement from supporters of the Palestinians and they keep on wondering why Israelis continue to defend their citizens and the "occupation" isn't getting nearer to ending.

how bout instead of dismissing truth as lies, why not try and aswer some of those questions?!?!? Is it becuase you cant? Thats my assumtion. You cant answer them becuase its truth and you never saw truth before. Give it a try though, your answers are bound to be entertaining

do you want me to give you a list of zionist lies? How about a land without a people for a people without a land? How about "we didn't expel them"...they just left? How about "what the Palestinians"? How about we don't kill civilians deliberately? How about Arabs don't love their children..they let them in crossfire? How about "the Arabs attacked Israel, Israel only defended itself." How about "Israel won't be the first country to introduce nuclear weapons to the MIddle East?" How about the Arabs want to throw us into the sea? How about "Israel wants peace..if only the Arabs agree to negotiate with Israel." David..in your literature...even an old son's birthright is obtained by deception.

My dear friend, Israel is in violation of roadmap to peace? They may very well be in violation of steps 2, 3 and 4, however many steps there are. Palestinians are in abusive violation of step 1. The most important step, the genuine peace step. Until they remain in violation of this step, Israel better be in ?violation? of all other steps for their well being. Also please do not confuse the economic growth of Israeli proper on the west side of the fence with settlement expulsion in the future Palestinian state territories. This is today?s REALITY, which suggests that the list of violations is nothing but a debatable piece of paper.

Mustafa, How about if Israel gives Um El Fahm to the PA? Would that make you happy?

There was a massacre in Jenin; the Israelis are using doped bubblegum to sterilize our girls; Israelis instructed Jews to leave WTC before its destruction; there never was a Jewish Temple on the temple mount; Palestinians are descended from Canaanites; the IDF is using a metal detector to give Palestinians cancer; the IDF bombed the Hamas rally; the Holocaust was exaggerated, etc. etc. Lies and historical revisionism are the modus operandi of Arab and Islamic supremacism, a la Al-Ghazzali (1059-1111), who advocated the use of lies and falsehood, where more convenient than the truth, in the fight against infidels. Keep the tradition alive, Khalid.

The Palestinians policies to-wards the Israelis is no different in 2005 than it was in 1935 or 1945 when there was no Israel ,nor one single Arab refugee . It was no different in 1955 or 1965 when there was no occupation. Why don't you be honest Mr.Khalid & say thay you agree with Hamas's policy of destroying Israel. Then we can stop answering your ridiculous statements.

Hamas should exist forever because of the following quotations said by Israeli leaders: "If only it would sink into the sea". *Israeli Prime Minister Yitzak Rabin* referring to Gaza, just before signing the Oslo Accords. ?I don't know something called International Principles. I vow that I'll burn every Palestinian child (that) will be born in this area. The Palestinian woman and child is more dangerous than the man, because the Palestinian child's existence infers that generations will go on, but the man causes limited danger. I vow that if I was just an Israeli civilian and I met a Palestinian I would burn him and I would make him suffer before killing him. With one hit I've killed 750 Palestinians (in Rafah in 1956). I wanted to encourage my soldiers by raping Arabic girls as the Palestinian women is a slave for Jews, and we do whatever we want to her and nobody tells us what we shall do but we tell others what they shall do." / *Ariel Sharon, current Prime Minister*, in an interview with General Ouze Merham, 1956 "We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." /*David Ben-Gurion*, May 1948, to the General Staff.

weiner is a respected journalist and you are a failed actor.

edward sarid lied to the bbc and to others about where he was born.that is the point. weiner made mincemeat of edward said.your blustering will change nothing.edward said was shown to be a liar. your idolatory of edward said is all of a one with your sympathy with anyone who hates israel.

"what is wrong with fight rapists, thieves, oppressors " See...after reading this, i could have only assumed you were talking about whats wrong with killing arab terrorists that you seem to have a problem with. But then you went ahead and made no sense again. "Shimon, Jewish occupation and Jewish oppression are as bad and as evil as Nazi Occupation and oppression." You should be aware that as an arab, you have no right to ever use that world. One of your favorite people, the grand mufti of jerusalem helped hitler come up wiht a final solution and how to implement it. Basically, palestinians HELPED the Nazis. So no, if anyone has ties to nazis, it would be terrorists. And terrorists ARE the same thing. They kill for no reason innocent people!!!! Thats what terrorists do and thats what hamas and jihad and their supporters are!! THAT is nazi behavior, not trying to protect your civilains form them by killing terrorists. I dont understand what you expect. You expect Israel allow these murderers to kill Innocent Jews and NOT try to kill these terrorists before they strike?!?!? Would any country in the world do that!?! Palestinains are nothing but terrorists and terrorist supporters and dont deserve the land they have let alone what they want.

I suggestyou read his response in full to Weiner, a hack jpournalist and quasi scholar hired by the felon Milken to destroy Said's character. Read it in full and then get back to us about your claim of his birthplace and when he attended St. George School in occupied East Jerusalem. Back up your lies or check your facts, something you dont like to do.

Levy wrote "Yeah, the Palestinians have some democracy, with terrorist groups like Hamas participating. " Yeah, the Israelis have some democracy, with terrorist groups like Kach, National Union, and Gush Emunim participating. what kind of a democracy is that which allow Terrorists like Baruch Marzel and Noam Fedderman to run in an election?

Shimon, what is wrong with fight rapists, thieves, oppressors and occupiers and foreign invaders. A nation that doesn't shoulder its duty doesn't deserve freedom. Shimon, Jewish occupation and Jewish oppression are as bad and as evil as Nazi Occupation and oppression. You understand!

It's well known what Hamas is all about. Destruction of Israel and waging terror. It's in their charter. Their ideology is the same as the Nazis. Both believe in genocide of their opponents. It doesn't look like Hamas will ever change their view. The problem with Hamas begins with their hateful charter, which leads to terror. They will only drop their terrorist label when they change their charter and tactics.

are you trying to prove my point more?!?! u want me to say "yay you are right! arabs are ok because not only do they kill hcildren on purpose, they kill soldiers too, so its ok"??!?!?!

he wrote and told various people and in a bbc interview that he was born in jerusalem.that was shown to be an outright lie. to make matters worse he embellished his story with various facts about jerusalem.but he was caught in a lie.he was an egyptian born in egypt. what else he did or not do does not change this big lie he told for his own purpose. after the story of his lie came out he disappeared for a long time and then he came out with his book.a book full of red herrings. he hated israel.no point in making him a saint.

Yeah, the Palestinians have some democracy, with terrorist groups like Hamas participating. Whatever, let them participate. Let them win. If they continue their terror tactics, then Israel will be justified to use harsher force against them. After all, Hamas will then be considered a "legitimate" government.

The truth of the matter is Sharon is not interested in peace, but in getting "quiet" (in Israel but not necessarily in the Palestinian areas) while Israel accelerates the process of colonization of the West Bank and the creation of facts on the ground, in violation of international law and the roadmap to peace (http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1594745,00.html). That is why he has undermined Abbas at every chance and keeps on finding excuses to avoid negotiating peace with the Palestinians. Let's hope a rejuvenated labour party can provide an alternative to Sharon's policy of reckless violence and land theft which brings security to no one.

In an effort to stifle any French kind of rioting starting in Israel, the police made a speedy investigation on the matter of the police shooting to death a "Car thief" trying to run over a police officer. The conclusion was that the police lied through their teeth and had shoot the man in the back, the man wasn't even in a car at the time he was murdered. I wish more investigation would take place when the police and army go on their shooting sprees.

pace306 has really given us quite a diatribe here. The least he could have done is seperated it into paragraphs. The first part of the diatribe is a racist, tribal attack that comes out of the Kahane Manual or his website shitlist. Enough on that but it should provide some idea of where this pace gets his ideas and how irresponsibly he throws around baseless accusations. As for your solutions, they are incomprehensible. The only thing they convey in any coherent way is your all consuming anger and hatred.

The Arabs have always trying to destroy Israel. They declare themselves that's the reason why they murder Israelis. "However, it is obvious that Israel is first and foremost responsible for making these crimes enivitable. " Yeah, I know the reason for "Pal" terrorism is Israel's existance. This iss what you call "occupation".

Their is a thin line in occupied palestine between zionist civilians and military targets, the resistance to this brutal wicked cowardly occupation should focus it's operations towards military targets.

You do understand that most of the people you've engaged here see things through orange-colored glasses? How does one break a mentality that says all Palestinians are Arab. All Arabs are terrorist. Therefore it's ok to pre-emtively kill all Palestinians. Palestinian should stop fighting so that Israel can take and do what it wants. You know all this is about the Land ... all the land from the river to the sea. And when a scosh of logic confronts them ... they call you names. God be with you my friend.

Palestinians and Israelis who knowingly and deliberately murder innocent People are terrorists. However, it is obvious that Israel is first and foremost responsible for making these crimes enivitable. There is not occupation without violence...and violence by Israel leads to counter resistance. It is a boomerang effect. Let us end the occupation, and the violence will end by itself. Violence and terror are symptoms, not causes. The rootcaue is this evil and satanic occupation, which is an act of rape

Theres nothing worse then a self hating Jew, the a stupid self hating Jew but Sullivan takes the cake. What kind of Jew are you? You claim the bible is false - not even your friends the arabs claim that - neither do the christians. You claim Jews have no right to live in Israel, and any land they use/take isnt thiers - so now you ignore history books too. Hamas not any different then any other terrorist group. That Sharon wants to or doesnt want to talk to them is irrelvant. Sharon was bitten by the bug of wanting to be king - he wants to create borders. If we are all lucky it will NEVER happen. That YOU care little for your people and thier heritage, means nothing to REAL jews - jews of all spectrums - right/left/religious/irreligious. The right wants piece MORE then the left - we just wont destroy our country to give it to the arabs. After 1000+ years of opression - we are taking what is ours. Dont like it? become Christian or Muslim - then you wont have to deal with history, god or country. Theres not reason to split Jerusalem - NO country splits thier capitol - why should Isreal? As for your Gaza idea - Sharon took a gamble - he "got rid of the emallest problem first". He went against his own people - he turned his back on his lifes worth - all so that the arabs can once again show they care little for peace - just PIECE. No prime minister will give up Jerusalem - and as its been proven 100 times - no mater what you give the arabs - they want MORE. Sharon doesnt have to prop up Abbas. IF Abbas cant handle the job - resign. Theres no game here - except in YOUR mind. Why shouldnt Abbas be held responsible for "every bullet" is he in charge or NOT ? What kind of "partner" should Sharon have? One like Chaimberlin and Hitler ? The Mufti went to Hitler to ask him of he could kill Jews - you cant fool us TWICE. If Israel is at war - lets finnish off the arabs once and for all - that we dont trade camels with Yemen means nothing. If we are at peace with the arab hordes - then why are we giving up territory? Ask the French about their new arab buddies - they took em in - then they complain and revolt - they should be sent back to Algeria - let then count the desert sand instead of burning paris and smoking weed.

so they are terrorists. You yourself admitted so a few minutes ago. And, however, you support them.

Hamas plan is Arab plan for 2 states, Arab state on land, Jew state under water. Khalid you will live in Palestine one day if you survive your own society. Jordan is already Palestine demographically. Islamic terror will destabilize hashemite Jordan as it has Gaza, Iraq, and all Arab lands where corrupt dictators hang on to the last vestiges of power. It will be politically easy for Israel to move the Arab population from Judea to (Jordan)Palestine then, the tides are building with each sickening atrocity. EU and UN are powerless and will do nothing to help you, in fact France is beginning 'deportations'. The US will just shrug our shoulders and say 'Israel tried everything else already.' Whether you like it or not, America will remain the most powerful country on earth and in space for the forseeable future, in part thanks to our integration of Jews. The terror supporting hamas, jihad islami and the rest will go the way of the taliban, hiding in caves, target practice for US marines, or just meat for American allied Arabs. Non-violent Palestinians will cross from the east bank to find work, medical care, and halul hamburgers in a bustling 21st century Israel. Get on the right side Khalil, nobody cares what happens to the losers. Either you help us rid the world of groups like that or you are toast.

You accuse me of being hypocritical, but you are actually lying. you say Pal. fighters only attack Jewish civilians. In fact, as many as 400 Israeli soldiers were killed in addition to hundreds of paramilitary soldiers...This is according to the IDF. So you are lying.

The fact is that this Justus Weiner in three years gathering information for his book, never interviewed Edward Said himself as to his childhood or upbringing. Weiner claims to have spoken to Said's assistant who claims that he never did. Further, Weiner misappropriates and falsifies a galley of Said's memoir, since published by Knopf, "Out of Place" in which Said carefull records the facts of his early life spent between Cairo, Jerusalem and Lebanon. He claims that being a member of a priviledged family he was spared the worst rravages of the naqba. Said never claim ato have been made a refugee himself but rather that his extended family, all of it, uncles, aunts, cousins, grandparetns, were. By spring 1948 not a single relative of his large family was left in Palestine. Weiner claims that Said's family business, Palestine Education Company with branches in Jerusalem and Haifa, of which his father was 50% owner, was gutted in 1947, when in fact it was intact until the spring of 1948 when it was captured by zionist forces. Weiner says the family never tried for reparations when in fact they did. His father tried to sue the Israeli government for reparations and Said's cousin Yousif registered another claim in 1996. But as is well documented, by 1950 the Israeli law of absentee property had unilaterally converted all Palestinian property into Israeli property. These are just some of the distortions in Weiners book and the kind of thing fagin defends as facutal.

you arent for the killing of innocent people but you are for continued fighting...hmmm....well, since the only fighiting and shooting the palestinians are diong is towards innocetn people on the roads, i am pretty sure that fighting and killing innocent people are the same to you. You do not need to remind me of history. Israelis were being hung for no reason before 48 and tortured by both the british AND the arabs. Do I need to remind you of history?? The difference is obvious. Israel was fighting a defensive war against the british, and they didnt kill civilains. They killed army soliders who tortured them. The arabs are aiming at women and children and people driving on roads, something israelis never did. BIG difference. And you are still hypoicritical.

The IRA wanted autonomy, but was not willing to destroy England. Hamas will (refer to its charter) is not only to get back the West Bank now, but all of Israel.

Perhaps you don't know how the PA accounts the "Pals" dead in the intifada. They count as such the terrorists who explode themselves, the "Pals" killed or murdered by other "Pals", the "Pals" executed for cooperating against terrorism, etc.

Shimon, you are arguing like a kid. Resistance doesn't mean killing innocent civilians. Resistance means that you make it difficult for the occupiers to remain in your land, lording over you and stealing your land and resources. Yes, we are for peace, but we shall never ever give up our duty to fight our tormentors. Didn't you fight the British before 1948? Didn't you kill civilians? Weren't your leaders like Begin and Shamir arrested and sought for terror..? Do I have to remind you of history?

Fagin, your argument is meaningless. Aren't you aware of the fact that Millions of Israelis were born in Eastern Europe and Western Europe and the Americas? So, don't make a big issue out of where said was born? You only invite ridicule by clinging to this.

I have now been designated a spokesman for Islamic Jihad. I've been moved up from spokesman for Hamas. Oh, dear, this one is really in need of medication. Someone should give him a holiday in the south of France.

"My concept applies on Arab terrorist groups who combine their religious ideology with military conflicts, something which makes any political measure useless" What is the difference between an Arab terrorist group and a Catholic terrorist group? As far as I can make out you are suggesting that one is worse than the other ie that terrorism in NOrthern Ireland was somehow less destructive. I hope you are not suggesting that as I think you'd have a hard time trying to convince victims of IRA and UVF terrorism. Religious ideology played a part in Northern Ireland politics as well (not as big as in Israel but it was a substantial element). However I think you are confusing Hamas with Islamic Jihad. Hamas is a far more practical organisation than Jihad and despite their hardline talk if they can be meaningfully involved in politics that gets results ie Israeli withdrawal from West Bank then it will be in their interest to engage more in politics. If Isrsel wants peace then they need to accept the "facts on the ground" - namely Hamas are a valid political grouping who represent many Palestinians. By ignoring and sidelining Hamas, Israel is giving them a legitimacy in the eyes of Palestinians. Get them into politics and peace is more of a prospect.

"Hamas never ever said it wanted to kill Jews or eradicate Jews. " HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Tahts all they ever say!!! I knew you were blind but are you deaf too?!?!?!

the IDF sitna terrorist organization. They are an army. someone as blind as you cant tel the difference, but if you notice, the army targets terrorists, hamas kills only innocent people. The IDF and Israle in general has NEVER called for all arabs to be pushed into the sea and murdered, hamas has. No Israali soldier has ever gotten awawy with purposely killing innocent arabs. They are sanctioned and arrested. Hamas is praised. See the difference yet?? They are endless. You can go support your terrorist cowards, but dont expect peace if you do.

But tell your guys to stop their suicide bombing, OK? And that would be worldwide. It's getting to be a real problem now.

In Israel there are not terrorist organizations running in elections. Again, the "Pals" might allow the terrorists to run. But why should Israel cooperate to it? The children again. Which children? Those you send to blow themselves up? They are polivalent "children": adults to be involved in terrorism, children if they are killed. However it happens, your "children" are useful for the cause. The "Pals" want to steal the Israelis land. Besides they are supplied with water and electricity by Israel and you whine that you are being robbed. As for women on their way to hospital, I remember the idiotic girl who was caught when she was about to blow herself up. Children going to school: who sent Imam Hams the way she want, so far away from school? Who lectured her to ignore the warning fire and run? Why did her parents lie? Or do you mean the Hamas school demolished at night when the "students" were sleeping at home and where the Hamas "children" had stockpiled arms to murder Israelis?

he squeaked.squeak and all you are a spokesman for hamas.the first one i warrant with the supposed name of "yacov" you are also a spokesman of islamic jahad and all the others who would torment israel.

If they do win, dont deal with them because they dont want to deal with israel. Its very simple. You cant have peace with someone who wants you dead.

Read your own Hamas charter. then, read your own history. Eradicating the Jews has been the goal all along, long before 1967 and any occupied territories.

How is anything the Nazis did preventative? I am a huge fan of america for chasing down mosters in afgahnistan and for chasing down terrorist weasels wherever they are. Just like they can fix their terrorist problems, so can israel. "Hamas, on the other hand, is fighting for the survival of the Palestinain people, tormented by 58 years of sustained brutality and racism. Yes, Hamas is not the best of liberation movements, but it is certainly far less evil than Israel." Hamas is FIGHTING!!! Thats exactly the point!! they dont want peace! they want to fight! And they arent as bad as israel? You clearly need mental help. Israel chases TERRORIST and drestoys TERRORIST houses. Hamas and the arabs in general have started every war OFFENSIVELY and kill innocent men women and children going to work or to a mall. That is being a freedom fighter?? Sounds more like an organization of pathetic cowards, which is where i figure you fall out.

sullivan we jews are very proud of commentary. as for the liar edward said he slithered and snaked but could not counter the accusation.he went silent for a year.he was born in egypt and claimed to have been born in jerusalem.and there were many embellishments in his story.but it was a total lie.so whats to answer?

"Is that the British government ended the Good Friday accords, not because of any violence, but because the IRA refused to even relinquish its arms." Stop splitting hairs - yes the accords were suspended but the reality is that negotiations with the IRA and Sinn Fein resulted in the Good Friday Agreement which resulted in ceasfire which resulted eventually of a rejection by the IRA of the armed struggle. It was a success. Not an unqualified success but better than anything that happened before. There is a precedent for negotiating with terrorists and results being achieved. Why oh why is Israel ignoring these precendents. I'll tell you - peace involves withdrawal from West Bank and East Jerusalem and the settler gangsters and their messianic supporters would rather destroy Israel than let that happen

Hamas never ever said it wanted to kill Jews or eradicate Jews. Hamas wants to dismantle the racist and apartheid infrastructure of Israel..just as the world had sought and succeeded in dismantling the apartheid infrastructure in South Africa. No body under the sun, certainly no Muslim, would be willing to come to terms with racism and apartheid. This doesn't lead to peace, it leads to moral suicide.

"As for the resistance, it is a legitimate duty upon eavy Palestinian man and woman to resist their occupiers, invaders, tormentrs oppressors and persecutors. " HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Khlaid, you speka of wanting peace and then in the same sentense say that you have the right to kill innocent civilians that you dont like. Hypocritical at all??? I guess once you spew lies so much you just stop listening to yourself to see how stupid you sound

Alex, your Israel has been fighting "terror" for 58 years..and the result is more resistance..more steadfastness, more determination to earn our freedom. We are willing to fight you for a thousand years to come to earn our freedom. We are not children of a lesser God. This should sear into your individual and collective consciousnes...read my lips..we are here to stay.

I dont think there is an analogous situation vis a vis arab/Israeli conflict. The IRA evntually gave up the armed struggle ONLY post 9/11 because they knew full well that the money tap that was the USA(yaacov and his fellow leprechauns)was being turned off. Perhaps if some of the wahabis from Saudi Arabia and Iran via Hezbollah could be put out of business there would be some equivalent financial pressure on Hamas.Also Hamas is still able to raise funds through so called charity organisations around Europe. That money goes into a pot to be distributed by Hamas as they see fit. Secondly there was never even the pretense of a religous conflict in 20Century N.IRE. Its purely sectarian.McGuiness and Gerry Adams were no more than educated gangsters who only went to church to bury their dead. Whereas Hamas are Wahabis.They are religous Zealots who will pay any price on Earth to achieve their goals.It is not a simple calculation for them.They wont just stop, even if the money gets tight.They need to be utterly defeated(militarily) in the same way that Irgun was by the haganah/IDF in order to be neutralized and taken out of the equation. So full circle we come. Who's going to disarm them???

Kim, if the Israeli government has the right to allow terrorists like Baruch Marzel and Noam Fidderman to run in Israeli elections, why can't Paletinian freedom movements can't run in our own elections. Besides, we don't view ourselves as terrorists. We view you as terroirst for killing our children, stealing our land, poisoning our water supplies and shooting our children on their way to school and women on their way to hospital. If there is terror in this world, it your terror...if there are terrorists..it is you... you are the real terrorists. we are your victims.

so palestinians are the only ones who murder pregnant women and babies, alex? i am afraid your bias is getting you in a hole. there is no overlooking the fact that israel is responsible for taking many more innocent lives than all the palestinian resistance organisations together.

Shimon, the British negotiated with Jewish terrorist groups like Hagana, Stern and Irgun. The British also negotiated with IRA. And the French negotiated with FLN and the Americans are working with the Badr organization in Iraq..and the Americans worked for a long time with terrorists in Nicaragua and El Salvador. In the final analysis, one Man's terrorist is another Man's freedom fighter. and, yes, 99.999 % of Palestinians don't see these groups as terrorist..just as 99% of Israelis don't view the IOF, which you call IDF, as a terrorist organization, despite the death and destruction they wreak on Palestinian civilians.

Now, Shimon, calm down and do not attribute things to me that are not true. I am not a spokesman for Hamas, nor do I condone what they do. I would not want to live under their municipal or state rule. They are a factor in the palestinian political scene and must be dealt with. What is the alternative? Do you have one?

Fagin refers to that ill researched piece of propaganda meant solelly to defame Edward Saidwritten by a zionist apologist of the ilk of Daniel Pipes, Justus Reid Weiner, that appeared in Commentary Magazine to which Professor Said responded, answering the slanders against him.

SHIMON: You know and I know that the present American administration is a terrorist entity. They lie to their people, they wage foreign wars based on lies, they advocate preventive wars (just like Nazi Germany), and they give themselves to attack any country. And they do all of this because of their insolence, arrogance of power, imorality and ideological nefariousnes. Hamas, on the other hand, is fighting for the survival of the Palestinain people, tormented by 58 years of sustained brutality and racism. Yes, Hamas is not the best of liberation movements, but it is certainly far less evil than Israel.

Hamas is indeed changing and reforming. some of the movement's leaders, e.g. Muhammed Ghazal, have indicatged a willingness to revoke the charter. Mahmoud al Zahar said a few days ago Hamas would be willing to negotiate with Israel. Hamas and the Palestinian Authority are about to agree on a national unity program based, more or less, on UN resolution 242. so Hamas is changing. As for recognition of Israel, this is out of question until Israel recognizes Palestine. Any recognition would have to be mutual and reciprocal. As for the resistance, it is a legitimate duty upon eavy Palestinian man and woman to resist their occupiers, invaders, tormentrs oppressors and persecutors. In fact, Israel is the real terrorist and we are her victims.

I would also like to see some clear plans for a future state. What are the economic and political plans for Palestine? How are they planning to get a million people out of poverty (since Arafat and the PA stole all the aid money, which continues today)? How to create jobs and hope? If the best hope is glory by suicide bombing, there isn't much of a chance that the future state will amount to anything. I am all for a Palestinian state, but one that is a good neighbor, not one that glorifies suicide bombing as the way to bring honor to a family. That just isn't going to cut it.

Yaacov's still pining away for the late Said. Creater of alternative histories. Rabble Rouser. Appreciator of violence. But to Yaacov, Sharon is a deceiver. Agreed, some lepords never change their spots. Apparently you've been looking in the mirror Yaacov.

And avoid personal attacks as was tried by a certain Justus Reid Weiner in Commentary Magazine on the integrity of Edward Said.

yu say that the arabs are basically angry at us for building in the west bank...so how do you exlpain the constant terrorism and war against israel sstarted by the arabs when we didnt have the west bank yet?!?

this article is abt. participation of hamas in elections, not in negotiations with israel. how would you feel in amsterdam if belgians would set up an armed group aimed at freeing belgium from the dutch colonists in belgian border areas with holland, group that would kill dutch civilians at random and that at the same time would participate in belgium's parliamentary elections ?

to a group of people who openly claim they want the destruction of the Jews no matter what "peace agreement" there is, why are thes people able to be peace partners?!?!? If someone can give me a good answer i will be shocked.

... that said Israel must make peace with her enemies ... not with her friends?

The PA has reached agreements with the terrorists. If Israel legitimizes the PA by cooperating with it, won?t Israel be legitimating the terrorists?

?Hamas can make toward stabilizing the territories, as in the past months when it was partner to the agreement for a lull.? Hamas? lull is an agreement with the PA is internal affairs having nothing to do with Israel. Besides other terrorist organizations remain active and they have made up joint cells with Fatah. That is to say, Hamas has committed itself to being less active because its work is being done by the other terrorists organizations , Fatah among them.

Jens, Is smoking pot legal in Denmark ? If it isn't, you're breaking the law. ... Comparing building houses in the desert to a "crime against the humanity" is foolish at best. Murdering pregnant women and children IS A CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY.

Moderate Hamas is Hamas that is brutally suppressed and forced to abandon its terrorism. Hamas of today has not shown any inclanation of going moderate. Time for Abbas to stop whining about his weakness and to fulfill his promise and the stipulation of the Roadmap.

If the ?pals? are free to do what they like in their territory, it is the same for the Israelis. Does Israel have the obligation to cooperate? On the other hand, what should Israel cooperate with the PA to?

The fact that you threaten israel that if you dont get 100% of your impossibly demands, there will be violence shows how little you actually care about peace. Its sad.

I wonder why the terrorist organizations are not banned from running in elections. I remember when in Turkey a radical Islamist party was banned some years ago. The matter was taken to the tribunal of Hague, which decided that the ban was correct, since the party?s aim was to abolish democracy.

it boggles my mind how you can possibly call Sharon and Mofaz thugs and in the same post, thing that Hamas is a worthy peace partner who can be trusted eventhough if you took 3 seconds to go to their website, u would see they do nothing but call for the total destruction of israel no matter what. How on earth can you do that? And more importantly, how can you be jewish and support those who kill your own people???

peas in a pod eh? edward said was a proven liar.your hagiography should be set aside for the more deserving of your brethren.he was shown to have lied after telling us time and again that he was born in jerusalem.he told embellished stories about his supposed birth-place.he was then shown to be an egyptian born in egypt. so who is surprised? you would love anyone who hates israel.and boy did he ever hate israel. or perhaps bird of a feather?

You want to make peace with a terrorist organization?!?! Should amreica just give al-quada the state of Florida just to make them happy and maybe "take their world" their will be peace?!?! How can you have any trust in a terrorist organization that has proven they cant even keep a temporary truce and thats all they have ever asked for?!!? Why cant they try a PERMANENT truce?!?! You think these people want peace?!??! are you crazy?!?!

" A Hamas-free election would be a false and sham election. It would be like barring a the Republican Party in America from running in the elections in the US." See the difference is that the the republican party members dont call for the destruction of the world, or their neighbors or strap bombs to themselves or talk about fighting another country to the death. That would only be Hamas. That is not a political idea...that is poilitical suicide to think they want peace.

Sharon: Deceptive. Duplicious. Devious. Corrupt The PA: Riddled with corruption. For you this move out of Gaza was proof that Sharon is a true seeker of peace, the lone man ready to sacrifice so much for his country, just to give peace a chance. Look what he did!!!! He confronted the fanatical colonists crazed with their sense of betrayal, he compensated them with millions and with tears in his eyes and outstretched arms, pleading begged, pleaded with, these Zionist saints to return to earth from the heaven of their idealism. And what did this ish shalom get in return for his overwhelming gesture of peace and reconciliation, but more attacks and rejections. And so Sharon went before his people and the dejected among them and said you were right- the enemy does not want peace. I gave them everything and they still kick sand in my eyes. So now we must continue to build, bulldoze and seperate, divide and keep things in their backyardsa as stirred up as possible. If the hornets nest seems to calm for a second then we musat poke it and stir it up, so they are kept in a perpetually state of chaos so we can continue with our iron wall and keep them caged behind it. And the chutazpah, the unmitiagated arrogance to think that Abu Mazen should have more "handed to him"!!! Meanwhile Caterpiller is doing its job from Ariel to Hebron destroying for Arabs and building for Jews, uprooting for Arabsd and planting for Jews, closing down for Arabs and opening up for Jews. And then look at how they treat us!!!!

Sharon has never shown any inclination towards diplomacy. In his army days, and even as Defense Minister invading Lebanon, Sharon disregarded the diplomatic consequences of his actions. Since coming to power some 5 years ago, Sharon has only used force against the Palestinians, no diplomatic move at all. Even the Gaza withdrawl was "unilateral", with no prior arrangements with the Pals. They were not even required to commit to have the area "demilitarized". (A commitment has legal force, and when unfulfilled there are consequences.) The present attitude towards Hamas' run in the Pal elections may become the parade example for Sharon's diplomatic ineptitude. Due to (the belated) American consent to this, Hamas will be running, and Israel acknowledges it. It would then have made sense to help Abbas in the competition. Israel should meet with Abbas, and make immediately some gestures that would make life happier for the Pals. For example, release a few old prisoners, remove a few unnecessary road blocks, etc., and promise more goodies to come shortly. Instead, Sharon announced a couple of days ago that if Hamas runs, he will NOT meet with Abbas. How much brain power goes into such a decision? Ultimately, everybody, including the US, would want Israel to talk to the PA. This must happen in the future. So why not do it now, before the Pal elections, and let Abbas get stronger? My hope is that Sharon will change his mind. It took him a long time to accept the idea of building a "wall", and even more time to adopt the idea of leaving Gaza. But a delay with talking to Abbas now will cause damage, and even if Sharon learns slowwwwly that this is a mistake, Israel will pay the price of a lost opportunity. Another possibility to understand Sharon is that he has some secret plan. Sharon is a gifted short term tactician. Any long term plan he had ended up as a major debacle, such as the new order he wanted to impose on Lebanon. Nevertheless, Sharon may have a secret plan. Perhaps Sharon the devious grand master wants the PA and Abbas to fail, so that he can have time to gobble up more West Bank territory. Unfortunately, the Pals have shown a willingness to make enormous sacrifices for their cause, and they are unlikely to accept some nonviable, cantonized state. Sharon's secret plans keep me nervous.

oh we are so impressed..such a rightous Jew you are...more rightous than any of us , because YOU GET it and we DO NOT... How can we Jews all reach your level Yaakov??

We agree on two counts, Ezreal. I hold Edward Said in the highest regard, as a scholar and as an observer of the Middle East. I also admire his work with Daniel Barenboim in using music to bring young people together. I also agree that the old leopard Sharon has not changed his spots. Still the same manipulator and deceiver he has been all through his sordid career.

For years we have heard about the occupation. Israel then withdraws from Gaza. Now, all we hear is that this was a duplicitious move. A sneaky underhanded play by Sharon and his "Henchmen" (Tell me this Yaacov, do the Palestinians have any "Henchmen among them? and if there are any worthy of such a title, could you tell us who they are, and when you plan on using such a dismissive title?) It's been a year since Arafat died. And we still hear how Abu Mazen needs more gifts handed to him. Otherwise, sadly, there's nothing he can do. Just who were those weapons for that were transferred from Sinai to Gaza after Israel withdrew? Why the need to continue fighting if Israel is gone from Gaza?

Dear Stephen, My concept applies on Arab terrorist groups who combine their religious ideology with military conflicts, something which makes any political measure useless

Is that the British government ended the Good Friday accords, not because of any violence, but because the IRA refused to even relinquish its arms.

HAMAS will likely take over the PA at some point. Than, they will look in the mirror and realize that they are just a religious reincarnation of the old PLO. We all know where the PLO took the Palestinians. But we appreciate your strategic opinion in terms of retreat.

HAMAS moving towards moderation? Really? In what way? Has the organization changed its stance? Has it decided to move away from eliminating Israel? Has it decided to walk away from its so-called "legitimate armed resistance" otherwise known as terrorism? The answer is no to all of the above. HAMAS still declares that it wants all of Israel. It has stated that at the end of the year it plans to walk away from its so-called truce. It has declared never to relinquish arms. This is the same organization that launched quassam missiles into Israel as a reaction to an explosion in Gaza that the organization set off at its own political rally. Last I checked, the Republican party doesn't go around blowing up American civilians and murdering engaged men and women due to the so-called moral issues. A democracy where one party goes around killing civilians at will provides neither trust that it will abide by democratic restraints nor provide protection of the law to its opponents. Law of the gun is what HAMAS uses.

As reported by Tariq Ali, that well known Troskyite/Marxist nutter. He and Said were kindred spirits.Thought they would be right up your extreme left street! Comments are old, but the leopard aint changed its spots yet.

"I strongly belive in not allowing Hamas to participate in the elections. I see no point in allowing terrorist groups act democratically, cz this will only help them get into the decision makers circle. Allowing terrorists using democratic tools is nothing but another way of fooling ourselves." So are you saying that allowing Sinn Fein/IRA to participate in Northern Ireland politics - Good Friday Agreement - and the resultant ceasefire and decommissioning of paramilitary arms was a MISTAKE? Would you have continued to exclude paramilitary groups from negotiation in Northern Irelans. Please explain why you think that a massive improvement in security (it's not perfect but a lot better)in Northern Ireland is a bad thing?

I strongly belive in not allowing Hamas to participate in the elections. I see no point in allowing terrorist groups act democratically, cz this will only help them get into the decision makers circle. Allowing terrorists using democratic tools is nothing but another way of fooling ourselves.

"They have only one policy.War with Israel. Which if elected is exactly what they will get." Which is why Hamas must follow the example of the IRA/Sinn Fein in Northern Ireland. Set up a political and negotiating wing (Sinn Fein) which will run parallel to the paramilitary wing (IRA) and whose purpose is to do the political legwork. This worked well in Northern Ireland which endured a 30 year terrorist campaign that while not fully resolved is 20 times better than 10 years ago. Hamas are a "fact on the ground" whether Israel likes it or not. By refusing to deal with them the Israeli government is failing its people. Of this whole discussion would not even be necessary if Israel was to return the West Bank and East Jerusalam to its rightful Palestinian owners.

Ezreal did not attribute his source for the comments by the great professor Edward Said. Would you kindly do so? His comments are worthy of close scrutiny. How many years ago did he make those comments? Have they evolved at all since the time of those observations by Said? Hamas's cultural strictures have already caused some uproar in Palestinian society. Their vision is similar to that of the ultra Orthodox in Israel when it comes to issues like mixed dancing, mixing of sexes in general, etc.

Sharon is a tactician par excellence. he never has thought in terms of long term strategy, only tactics which he hopes will achieve certain ends. Sharon and his henchman, Mofazi, have no intentions of reaching a negotiated settlement with the palestinians since this would require ceding occupied land and large colonies they have built up in Palestine over the past decades. Yet, Sharon cannot say this to the Americans, at least not publically. In that arena he must still play the role of the man of peace who is left strnaded in the wilderness with no one to talk to. The lonely man of the tank. Gaza was his trump card. That loosing enterprise, that defied the best intentions of the zionist visionaries, was meant to soothe the voices of protest coming out of the US and EU. Then, throw up your hands and say, see, look what we did out of the goodness of our hearts and our burning desire for peace, and look how they respond! You think we have a partner, sombody to talk to!? And here the Sharon tactic comes into play big time. Undermine Abbas and insinuate that he is powerless and a non-partner. No talks. Eithere Abbas moves in and stops every bullet from flying out of Palestine or we turn our backs on you. Either you lead the choas by bringing civil war to the occupied territories or we will do it for you. In regard to Hamas, give them time for their hudnas to take effect and then go in and assasinate or bomb, stirring things up all over again which gives Israel the pretext to stall any movement even more. Sharon needs chaos, if he agrees that there is partner, if he agrees to let the lections go ahead unimpeded instead of issuing a byzantine myriad of qualifications, then you will be called upon to stop the colonisation, immediately dismantle all illegal outposts and relinguish territory and comproimise on Jerusalem. This he will never do. Hence more of the shell game.

Both sides have a choice, with Peretz victory Hamas will be weakend and that isn't in Sharon's interest, so more blood and violence is on the horizon. Anything to reactivate the Hamas will be the order to Mofaz/Halutz and the Hamas also finds themselves somewhat sidelined. Because at least Peretz seems to be reaching out from day one. So will Hamas step out from their path to political recognision and take up arms again? Or just be happy to play second fiddle to the PNA? At least even the Hamas understandss the difference between Peretz and Sharon. A Labor led coallision without Peres could even be seen by the Hamas as something positive. Because they read Peres like an open book and his past always haunted him. Peretz starts with an open sheet and watching the PNA dealing with him could be more acceptable to the Hamas than playing footsie with a Sharon that is taking, not only Abu Mazen for a ride, but also the entire world. Peretz-Abu Mazen could very well be the future and that future looks so much better than Sharon-Hamas, both for Israelis and Palestinians. Maybe even Tommy Lapid thinks so. He is needed more than ever to supress the extreme right from carrying on with their charade. God is after all on the side of the righteous, or at least should be.

Hamas is part and parcel of the global islamic fanatic movement which wants to bring the whole world back to the dark ages. Ordinary Westerners everywhere becoming more aware by the day of the dangers this movement represents for their countries. This is not the moment for Israel to weaken its resolve and fight Hamas and Jihad Islami in any way possible. Israel has nothing to gain from negotiating with the terrorists. They will for ever attack Israel whether they are in power politically or not in the territories They will blow up civilians including kids women and old defenceless people no matter what Israel does and irrespective if she pulls out of all territories and recognises Hamas as the legitimate Government of a newly established Palestinian State. NEGOTIATING WITH HAMAS IS LIKE THE KING CANUTE NEGOTIATING WITH THE WAVES OF THE OCEAN.

In Northern Ireland the IRA was the largest Republican terrorist organisation. Sinn Fein was the political wing of the IRA. For many years successive British governments would have nothing to do with Sinn Fein - they were excluded from politics and from negotiations despite representing a large number of people. Meanwhile terrorism continued. With the Good Friday Agreement some years ago Sinn Fein was invited to engage fully in politics and negotiations before a full ceasefire was declared. They did not give up their claim to 1 inch of land. Nor did they distance themselves from the aims of the IRA or their armed struggle. However after some years of participation and involvement in the political process where tangible results were being achieved in the struggle for equality for Northern Irish Catholics through politics and negotiation it became more obvious that Sinn Fein would need to surrender the armed struggle and lo and behold - decommissioning of IRA arms and a cessation of the armed struggle. If Israel refuses to negotiate with Hamas who represent many Palestinians then they are encouraging terrorism against Israel. Israel has no right to interfere with Palestinian elections. Getting terrorist groups into politics in Northern Ireland has made that place far safer and peaceful fpr everyone. The same would be true of Hamas but unfortunately no Israeli politician seems to be willing to take that chance (and if it worked in Northern Ireland it can work in Israel/Palestine and don't try to pretend otherwise. If politics produces results then the need for terrorism lessens. Unfortunately Israel cannot make that connection. By interfering and trying to influence internal Palestinian decisons Israel is only harming itself.

Recognise this phrase Delta? Israel may never have called for the destruction of Palestine, but it has political parties- some of whom servedi n Sharon's cabinet until recently - who have done exactly that.

How about the infamous sentence of Golda Meir that the palestinian people didn't exist? How about the tourist minister Zeevi (the only high ranking israeli victim of a targetted assasination by palestinian militants)that openly called for the etnic cleansing of the palestinians. Wasn't there an israeli minister, Avigdor Lieberman who called for bombing of the Aswan dam in egypt? A bombing which would result in a flood that would kill millions of civilians, the equivelent of an atomic bomb in new york. How about the israeli ayatollah, head of the shas party or something that called palestinians for snakes etc. How many of the parties in the knesset supports the illegal settlements in the occupied territories, a crime against humanity? All this is from a western standpoint extremely extremist speaking. And those speaking are made worse by concrete action to carry them out. It's not just talking like the iranian president. The facts are there for everyone to see.

In my opinion, their ideas about an Islamic state are completely inchoate, unconvincing to anybody who lives there. Nobody takes that aspect of their programme seriously. When you question them, as I have, both on the West Bank and elsewhere: ?What are your economic policies? What are your ideas about power stations, or housing??, they reply: ?Oh, we?re thinking about that.? They have only one policy.War with Israel. Which if elected is exactly what they will get.

or something like that. A clear stand would require that Hamas be a predictable organization, which it does not seem to be. Basically the Israeli response is driven by what Hamas does. Hamas may move to political action or to terrorist events, so that Israel must have the ability to go either way on its policy on Hamas participation in elections.

"hopelessly failed targeted assassinations that kill strawmen-nobodies; not major Hamas or Jihad Islami leaders." and what about Mahmud Abu Hanoud and Salah Shehada? Mahmoud al-Zahar, Ismail Haniya and Sa'id A-Siyam, coming up. I hear your desperation Mustapha, in your incoherent and delusional posts.

Israel has never, ever called for the obliteration of Palestinians, although Hamas has that express desire right in its charter against Israel. Every one of your Islamist extremist groups is very clear about its goals, and is busy wreaking terror on the whole world, as we speak. Israel is not responsible for blowing up people in London, in Madrid, in Jordan, in Egypt. Stop blaming Israel for the dysfunction within your own people. Hamas stands for dysfunction, and if they win in an election, it is very sad news for your people, the moderates, who just want to live a normal life.

Bush shamelessly lied to the American people about attacking Iraq, but one thing is certain. After fair elections the Shiites won big and will put their stamp on all future Iraqi governments and take over after the Americans declare victory and run away. Hamas has so much support from the Palestinians, they too will take over the PA and like it or not Israel will have to deal with Hamas. Better to evacuate all of the W. Bank right now and prevent a 3rd intifada and save thousands of Israeli & Palestinian lives than our idiotic general deliberately provoking Hamas & Jihad Islami with their hopelessly failed targeted assassinations that kill strawmen-nobodies; not major Hamas or Jihad Islami leaders.

is it israel's job to prevent hamas from participating in PA-elections (with the risk of increasing Hamas' popularity in the palestinian electorate) ? is it not up to the PA (that condemns terror but does so little to prevent it) to exclude any party that has a paramilitary branch from elections ? if PA is not even able to do that (let alone to disarm the islamist terror gangs), it is even not worth its name "authority", because it has none.

Sharon and Shalom are deceiving Israelis and Jews. Hamas is definitely moving toward moderation. This is conceived by the establishment as very dangerous, as it would make Israel lose a valuable and central propaganda weapon against the Palestinians. Also, the participation of Hamas in the election is a Palestinian affiar. And everybody knows that without Hamas's participation, there will be no election. A Hamas-free election would be a false and sham election. It would be like barring a the Republican Party in America from running in the elections in the US. Finally, Israel has political parties and factions that are far more extremist and terrorist and racist than hamas, such as national union, Mifdal and even the likud? These parties also call for the destruction of Palestine.