Yossi Sarid / Barak legitimizes the evils of Israeli occupation

I do not for a moment believe that you are a Palestinian, or even allied by family or feeling to them. You hide your right wing intolerance behind a fictitious name and address. Kibbutz Zikim lies on land sold to the Jewish Agency by an absentee Arab landlord. The founders may have lacked foresight, but they did not share the lack of all ethical standards as do the present day settlers in the West Bank.

The euro-trash sattlers statments in this talback make me sick! They are all blind with this bullshit of "there's no occupation". Yes, there is, and all of you will be soon as you imagine be pushed to the sea! FREE PALESTINE!

there's no one i can think of whose words are so much at odds with his actions than this man. although, this disparity is identical to that of the israeli government when it comes to peace negotiations with the palestinians... so he can't possibly be the only one. he's probably not the worst, either.

Israel doesn't need to lower its university standards -which are really excellent- for a dirty political trick, that will undoubtedly backfire and give the arbitrary connection anti-Semites do btw occupation and academia an unnecessary, lonely example they will exploit.

COULD NOT BE SAID BETTER THAN #1, ABOVE.

Heaven knows where you've been for the last 60 years, but it's time for you to pick up a book, and turn off the video games. On 14 May 1948, under UN resolution 181, Israel declared statehood, with sovereignty within precisely, meticulously detailed borders dictated by the resolution. The remainder of the territory in Palestine was Palestinian. In 1967, Israel occupied the remainder of Palestine. UN resolution 242 then demanded Israel withdraw from the occupied territories. Israel has refused and is in violation of that resolution, and thus international law. Therefore, the West Bank and Gaza, and Jerusalem for that matter, are not legally part of Israel. Israeli built settlements on the occupied lands, the blockade of Gaza, collective punishment of a civilian population, and the annexation of Jerusalem are violations of articles of the 4th Geneva Convention. Breaches of the Convention are considered war crimes.

Mr. Zionist, you are wrong (and you probably know you are) to say Ariel was founded before talk of Palestinian land and occupation. Palestinian land was determined 14 May 1948, when Israel declared statehood within precise, meticulously detailed borders under UN resolution 181. Beyond those borders was Palestinian territory. Israel occupied that territory in 1967. UN 242, approved 22 Nov 1967, advised Israel (and the world) that the land was occupied and that Israel must withdraw from those occupied lands. Israel is in violation of that international law. Ariel is built on illegally occupied land and its very building in an illegal settlement is a violation of the 4th Geneva Convention. Breaches of the Convention are considered war crimes by the international community and courts. The rest of your posting about Jordan, who lost the land, who demands it now, not any deals made, political commitments, etc., etc. are completely irrelevant and have no bearing on international law.

"WE JEWS HAVE ONLY ONE HOME!!!" Do you realise how insulting that claim is to the seven million Jews who do not choose to live in Israel?

"Why Not? - Netanyahu: Make Occupation Permanent" - Mark of Lewiston Of course it is going to be permanent. Eventually the District of Judea and Samaria will be annexed into Israel. The only problem is how to get rid of those pesky Palestinians.

"Now it is time for the arabs to compromise! If the arabs are really commited to peace they would be willing to split the WB 50-50" You are playing chess with yourself, but nobody listens to you anymore. Even right wing Israelis know that these "compromise" formulas are non-starters and are more dead than the once peddled "Jordanian option". Either you annex the whole place and give citizenship to all inhabitants or you move out and negotiate land exchanges based on the 67 border. There is no other option. Deal with it.

"Did Mr. Zimmerman ask them if he could steal their land and live there?" I doubt that he is old enough to have had the chance to ask them in 1948. Is he (or much younger Israelis) guilty of tragic events in 1948? "Did anyone ever give them a chance to return to their land?" No, they were not given an chance, and it was wrong. But we have to turn the page. You seem more interested in aggressively vindicating past injustices than in helping former victims to move on (and heal their relation with the today's Israelis) . Why shouldn't the former inhabitants of Hirbiya accept other forms compensation? or the opportunity to rebuild Hirbiya in the West Bank (less than 40 km's away from the original) in a Palestinian state. You demand moral absolutes and disregard present realities. However, most Palestinians are by necessity pragmatic and would consider alternative compensations. Your self-righteousness is the seed for fundamentalism. Or are you a provocateur?

Israel does not have to remove 600000 settlers. They can move or stay as they choose. Take a decision and live with the consequences. Personal responsibility.

"Labor has always been the great legitimizer of the occupation's evils." - Yossi Sarid The once mighty Labor Party has become a dry husk, without any use except as a career hobby horse of Ehud Barak. Labor Zionists created Israel, despite everything - including the Revisionists. Now the Labor Party, last vestige of that great movement, represents nothing, and achieves nothing. It is just the bimbo Barak takes to the Revisionist Orgy.

Read the Holy Torah and review the Jewish prayer book and you will understand the long standing connection we have to Hebron , Yerushalaim, bet-el, shilo, shechem, migdal eder Every single portion of Bereishit(Genesis) from Lech lecha on - focuses on our longing for eretz yisrael. Read all about how Moshe yearned to enter eretz yisrael read about king David who had his capital city 3000 yrs ago in hebron and yerushalaim read about the 2 temples - see our prayers that we say 3 times a day all about returning to jerusalem every meal we eat we thank Hashem about giving us the land of Israel and pray for the return to Jerusalem. THIS COUNTRY IS OURS!! Arabs CAN LIVE VERY WELL IN JORDAN, SAUDIA ARABIA, SYRIA, IRAQ - WE JEWS HAVE ONLY ONE HOME!!! LEARN TO LIVE AND LET LIVE- LEARN TO RESPECT! LEARN ABOUT TOLERANCE! LEARN ABOUT DIVERSITY! LEARN ABOUT COMPASSION!!

The West Bank is not in Israel.

"The West Bank and Gaza are legally part of Israel." Please cite the annexation....thx

Ariel was founded in the 70s long before we started talking about palestinian land, occupation etc. It had been captured from Jordan & at the time nobody was talking about palestinian states if the land was given to anybody it would be Jordan Neither Jordan or any other country was talking about these places as illegal settlements or demanding an end to it. Palestinian land, occuption, illegal settlement all these words are post oslo. There have been no politcal commitments to give Ariel to the arabs or anymbody else.. So look at it this way THE PEOPLE WHO LOST THE LAND ARE NOT THE ONES DEMANDING IT NOW THE PEOPLE DEMANDING IT NOW DIDNT HAVE IT WHEN THE PLACE WAS CREATED WE HAVE NOT MADE ANY DEALS TO GIVE THEM ARIEL THE UNINVERSITY ALREADY EXISTED IT WAS JUST DESCRIBED AS A COLLAGE Politics must be based on time lines not present situation. This condemnation is popularist policy & popularist today is pro palestinan anti settlement & it doesnt take into account politcal history

"There are 600,000 Jews living in WB and they have every legal right to reside there. Israel can`t move 600,000 Jews" Israeli Jews actually. They moved in, they can move out. "The Arabs have explicitly annouced that they don`t want Jews in their country" Quote this alleged announcement...thx "The Palestinians declared war on Israel " Quote the declaration.. "..and hv to pay the price of their leaders" Did they ELECT these leaders?

The likud has made peace with Egypt by compromise. I am a centrist and supported Begin and Bibi as long as Bibi doesn't adopt meretz 67 borders. Now it is time for the arabs to compromise! If the arabs are really commited to peace they would be willing to split the WB 50-50 Time is totally on Israels side- The longer the arabs wait the less they'll get Jews must be able to reside in Chevron under Israeli sovereignty. Hebron is one of the most important jewish cities and there are 10,000 jewish Israelis residing there The arabs can hv the arab areas and the jews can hv the jewish areas. There can be land contiguity for both sides. see the likud maps. You may need a few tunnels/bridges.

Please explain how a university that has Arab and Jewish students is an evil. Yossi time to stop the Pavlovian response.

Just as, on another thread, someone lumped Dreyfuss, Pollard and Nozette together, so Phil Stein lumps Haifa, Hirbiyeh and Hebron together. Is this a one-size-fits-all recipe, supplied to the Defenders-of-the-Faith-of-Eretz-Yisrael-Hashlema and their partners The-Whole-World's-Antisemitic by some short-sighted organization that can't see beyond its own nose, or is it just coincidence?

Sarid is zig-zagging himself. He is saying that it is a no good college which wouldn't deserve to be a University even if it were in Tel Aviv! So this argument is prely academic. But there are plenty of universities which are not quite Oxfrod. In any case, some of the modenr universities have better teaching than the arrogant old universities, who think they can survive on ther reputation rather than their quality of teaching.

Ariel is a CITY with a poplation of around 20,000. Founded in the 1970s long before we started talking about palestinan state this was land captured from Jordan. Land captured from Jordan, Egypt,& Syria. was developed Neither the arabs or international community was no talking of returning land and the arabs didn't want peace Also any future treaties were going to be between Israel & the countries who lost the land not palestinians Neither the international community of the countries who lost the land were not demanding an end to the settlement program their attitude was no peace even at the expense of land. Buzz words like occupation, illegal settlement, palestinian state, arab east Jerusalem are products of oslo they were unheard of before then. If the place was there as a collage before what does it matter if its status is upgraded? All we are doing is renaming a place that exists so whats the big deal & whose being hurt by upgrading of an existing collage to a university.

It's their land. Did Mr. Zimmerman ask them if he could steal their land and live there? Did anyone ever give them a chance to return to their land? There's no difference between Hiribya and Haifa and Hebron. The thieves must give back the land to the owners.

I guess you don't believe Dennis Ross who actully is on your side (the Palestinian side) supporting - Israel going bk to 67 borders. Did u read his book - the missing peace. Is it also a myth that the Israelis accepted the partition plan and danced in the streets and the 5 arab armies tried to destroy Israel. THis was 1948! Only 3 years after the Holocaust! Wake Up!! The WB is disputed area and Israel will never go back to 67 boders - There are 600,000 Jews living in WB and they have every legal right to reside there. Israel can't move 600,000 Jews. There is no way they will live in a PA state. The Arabs have explicitly annouced that they don't want Jews in their country. The only solution is splitting the WB 50-50. The Arabsmust compromise - they have 800 times more land than Israel which is 10 times more per capita. Just Jordan alone has at least triple the land Israel has. The Palestinians declared war on Israel and hv to pay the price of their leaders.

The majority of the Palestinians agree to a 2 state solution, so are not demanding land inside the 1967 borders (including Zimmerman's kibbutz). Like many other sites, it was built on previous Palestinian property belonging to people who became refugees (and should be compensated). But we cannot live in the past and keep scratching past wounds. We all live in land that previously belonged to some one else, and many times we are there by product of historical injustice. However, what most Palestinians demand is the WB, Gaza and East Jerusalem. This is a present demand, not historical. Before any idiot replies to this post by the usual "give back your land to Mexico's Indians", I will say that they are all Mexican Citizens with full rights under the law. Unless Israel gives full Israeli citizenship to all inhabitants of the WB & Gaza, she must leave the territories or exchange parts of her 1967 land with the Palestinians (Ariel could be a sort of Israeli West Berlin enclave).

You regard the Bible as authoratative? Then take note: 1. Israel was a sovereign state till the death of Solomon. 2. Then she split into Israel and Judah 3. Israel made war on Judah who called upon the king of Assyria for aid. 4. Israel was destroyed, Judah subjected to Assyria 5. Judah has never since been a sovereign state 6. She was ruled by Babylon, then Persia. (Here the Bible record ends But let us continue). 7. Later she was subject to Alexander the Great, the Seleucid dynasty of Syria, and finally Rome 8. Upon rebellion, her people were dispersed. In short, the reign of Solomon was her last period of sovereignty. Since then she has been subject to outside powers. Every time she has tried to turn her faith into a political state she has failed miserably. But she still tries, still makes the same mistakes. We hope that she will wake up from her dream, extend to others the respect she demands for herself. and become a true member of the commonwealth of nations.

I just don't understand how so much grief can eminate from a couple of unproven books and quotes like this scare the hell out of me because people believe them"!

Why do you call yourself a peacelover Lisa, when all I ever see from you is hardline maximalist Zionist positions? I bet you think Bibi's a wishywashy liberal. Everybody loves peace, on their own terms, even Hamas. Real peace takes compromise, Lisa, and understanding the other side's point of view.

When a general knows how to play a little Chopin and the Minister of Education does not, obviously the general gets to decide, right? Ariel will be a university and thus drag down the reputations of Israel's bona fide, world-class universities. The Hebrew University, Tel Aviv University, Ben Gurion university and the Technion, cry us a river. The occupation now rules the whole of the Land of Israel, including what used to be known as the State of Israel. Welcome to the BRoI (Banana Republic of Israel).

Why are the small minority of Israel hating Israelis given any credibility. Sarid is just another Israeli who pours gasoline on the foundations of his own country's home.

"Had it not established itself in occupied territory, it wouldn't have had the slightest chance of upgrading its status." That fully reflects the entire reality of Israel today. If you want instant housing and land, with little or no investment, just move to Pal territory. Anything is possible there.

How on earth should Arafat have trusted the offer of a chronical "trickser" like Ehud Barak...???? In my posts I always used to bring up Camp David 2000 as the single one at least half- serious Israeli offer for peace with the Palestinians, but I'm afraid even that one has been shattered now. Sorry to say, but in view of Ehud Baraks political conduct over the past decade, we are again at ZERO/NADA in that regard....

Danny, nobody, not even Israel itself, recognizes the WB as part of Israel. Those are universally understood as "occupied territory", administered by the military of the occupying power. The land does not belong to Israel. Israel is only administering it, and using its position to put more and more "facts on the ground", hoping that they will get away with part of at the end of the "peace process", if it ever comes.

...of the entire system of higher education in Israel.

No Evils And No "Occupation".It's YOUR land.The only problem is location.Your place's UNDER the land, not ABOVE.Each of you'll receive his/her personal piece according to his/her body size. Justice forever and first of all.

Sorry to insist, but Israel is only the power occupying Palestine ! And it should comply with the international laws regarding the occupation of a foreign territory and above all, protect the local population... Which obviously, it does not...

Israel is not occupying anything Occupying is if there is one country that takes over another country the 4th geneva convention has nothing to do with the west bank that the arabs turned down numerous times There never ever was a Palestinian state The arabs said no to partition plan in 47 the arabs said no to peace in 67 the arabs said no to 97% of WB in 2000 Until the final borders are determined jews hv every right to reside in ariel hebron and the IDf will protect them

YK: "OUR Land: No Evils And No 'Occupation' " Grow a brain for once, Yishai, and ask yourself this simple question: Q: Why does the Israeli MINISTER OF DEFENSE get to decide that this college should become a "University"? The answer: because this Israeli college is inside occupied territory, and therefore is unique in being under the authority of the Defense Minister, and not under the authority of the Education Minister. After all, how many *other* colleges became universities because of a decision by the MINISTER OF DEFENSE????????

"The Arabs will try to take us out of our land, much of which we bought with Jewish money." Unless you believe everyone who has money is Jewish money,then how could you say that.The half a million refugees who where expelled from Palestine are still living in refugee Camps. Don;t you think that if you paid for their land there would be no refugees now?

What's your source? What's your point of reference? Your opinion is worth no more than any one else's according to your world view. The Bible says... Now that's authority I can trust and rely on. It has never been wrong about history or the future; or anything else for that matter. Israel should and will take everything from the Euphrates to the Nile. And everyone inside their borders - of all races - will be blessed beyond the world's wildest dreams.

Not sure how Israel can profess to being the Jewel of Democracy in the Middle East when it violates International Law with it's illegal settlements in occupied territory. Article 49 of the fourth Geneva Convention is quite explicit - The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.

Kibbutz Zikim was built in 1949 on land that belongs to the Palestinian Arab village of Hiribya, which was ethnically cleansed in Operation Yoav, 1948. When will you be returning their land to them and leaving?

The nation of Israel living in, and ruling, the land of Israel is liberation, justice, and the the fulfillment of thousands of years of Sarid's ancestors' prayers no less than our own. If Sarid feels guilty about anything, it would have to be that his own house in moshav Margoliot was built on the ruins of the Shi'ite village of Hunin.

The price for the evils of occupation and never ending war?... Machavalian power wielded by men that are given it far to easily who use it much to enthusiastically....Law and Justice are mere obstacles!..........................PEACE EVER?

Well, can you believe that he rally said "they should thank their God", sounds like the Passoverr son that is not part of the family

Actually the author is saying it doesn't deserve that recognition because it's a lousy instituation, he doesn't sound as if he has any issues with it being Jewish in the West Bank. I have met and worked with many Israeli graduates and they're very impressive. so if an institution is going to degrade the level of graduations then to hell with it. it's not worth Israels time. look at the achievements over the last 60 years, not worth undoing in the next 5.

What evils of occupation? If we don't do what we do, the Arabs will try to take us out of our land, much of which we bought with Jewish money. We are not occupying their land, we are protecting ourselves from their fanatical hatred of us. If we do not protect ourselves, do you think the nations of the world will care?

He is a traitor to the cause of peace and the Labour Party. I wonder what the pay-off is.

With Netanyahu now saying that the IDF will have to stay permanently in the West Bank and insisting the Palestinians have less sovereignty than Berkeley, Barak is just going along with Likud policy.

Those boycotting lsrael or/and israeli universities don't need anything to justify their case. They do whatever they do regardless. Peace is a big and a nice dream that has little to do with jews resettling in their ancient homeland and a lot with the issue of the arabs accepting the idea. so far it has not happened as we all know. Not before '67 or '56 or 48 or anytime since the rise of lslam. That is where a revolutionary change has to occur for peace to bloom.

Contrary to Sarid's criticism of Barak, there is no justification for denying Ariel College recognition as a university simply because it is a Jewish institution in the West Bank.

With Netanyahu insisting that the IDF stay permanently on the West Bank and that Palestine have no sovereignty, Barak is just being consistent. Berkeley would be more independent that Palestine.

The West Bank and Gaza are legally part of Israel. Those two territories have only been set aside as areas where Palestinians can live. Israel owes them nothing beyond the land they already have. And Israel can take back that land any time they please for little or no reason. The land belongs to Israel, always has and always will.