U.S. may allow Israeli upgrades to F-35 fighter jet
An order from Israel has been delayed for months because of discussions on the issue of Israeli systems.
By Anshel Pfeffer Tags: IAF Israel newsThe United States is expected to ease its opposition to incorporating Israeli systems in the F-35 if Israel expedites its order for the stealth strike fighter. Sources in the defense establishment confirmed Tuesday a Reuters report that the U.S. has offered a version of the F-35 that would include command and control systems developed in Israel, as well as the ability to carry advanced missiles that are made in Israel.
Reuters says that the Pentagon is still opposed to the introduction of an Israeli electronic warfare suite for the version of the fighter that would be procured by the IAF, and this remains a key Israeli condition.
An order from Israel has been delayed for months because of discussions on the issue of Israeli systems, and the aircraft's high cost.
The IAF would like to place an order for the first 25 F-35s, out of an overall order of 75.
The estimated cost of the deal stands at $14.5 billion. To date, the Pentagon and the maker of the advanced fighter, Lockheed Martin, had refused Israel Air Force requests for substantial changes to the aircraft, so that it would be capable of meeting the IAF's specialized requirements.
The Americans argued that the avionics suite of the F-35 cannot be changed, and the Israeli requests were made at a late stage in the development.
The Americans' willingness to soften their stance is the result of a series of meetings held by Lockheed officials and Israeli defense establishment officials three weeks ago, and also difficulties with the project, particularly concerns that orders by countries participating in the development project will be low.
An extensive series of discussions is being carried out at the Pentagon to assess the delays in the test phase of the aircraft, as well as the overall cost of the project, which is estimated to exceed the original budget by some $15 billion.
A decision by Israel to acquire the F-35 is perceived to be a public relations victory for the maker of the fighter, which hopes that an announcement of such a decision would boost sales to other countries.
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Yes, the F-35 will probably be late and over budget. Howver, Israel does not have to make a decision about the F-35 for another few years
Israel needs F35's ? Why? to be more effective at shooting fish in the 'Gaza barrel'? To conduct raids on Iran's NPT signatory backed nuclear facilities in order to maintain the complete dominance and threat of it's illegal non-NPT backed nuclear arsenal? And why keep up the complaints about wanting Israeli technology in the aircraft....just let Israel keep on spying in the US to support it's parallel development and tweaking of avionics technology. Yeah...sure. Israel needs these planes like Palestine needs new settlements.
r: "it will be less expensive and better then giving the US all that money with nothing to show for us." You do understand that "all that money" is coming from the USA in the first place? You do know that, don't you? Because the problem is this: the $billions that Israel will "spend" on "buying" the F-35 comes from the USA as military aid, and not from Israel's own pocket. Now, don't get me wrong: Israel can always walk away from the F-35, and is free to go elsewhere for its hardware. But if it *does* then it *can't* take those $billions with them because (and this always bears repeating) these are USA taxpayer dollars, not Israeli taxpayer shekels. So if Israel walks away from the deal then it walks away from that money, and it'll have to spend its own money instead. Q: Does it have that much money to spare? A: No, it doesn't.
some do some do not. "At least they pay for them". Do "they"?
Israel gets the jets IAF gets extra Israeli equipment from Israel paid for by Israel.
"I was very pleased with the way US Marines adopted IDF techniques in close quarter (house to house)fighting in Fallugah...many Marine lives were saved thanks to the IDF!!!" Well, thank goodness for that, anyway. Nice to hear of lives saved instead of wasted in Iraq...
RiDC: "The common focus is on US military aid to Israel, and all the complaints follow in due course. Yet where are the complaints about US military aid going to Egypt, Jordan, the Palestinians, or Lebanon which, together, exceed what Israel gets?" Because they ALL use that aid money in the manner in which it was intended i.e. to buy US-built military equipment that then gets painted with their national colours. Only Israel argues that it should be allowed to siphon off hundreds of millions of (USA taxpayer-funded) dollars in order to fund their own R&D to provide "solutions" for their own "unique requirements". It's the difference between 1) US military aid money being used to prop up the US defense industries 2) US military aid money being used to prop up an Israeli defense industry. The Pentagon - not surprisingly - doesn't think much of the latter idea....
The common focus is on US military aid to Israel, and all the complaints follow in due course. Yet where are the complaints about US military aid going to Egypt, Jordan, the Palestinians, or Lebanon which, together, exceed what Israel gets? And what of the billions given to Pakistan? Just consider how much the US would spend if it had to do itself what Israel does on its behalf. Who would provide the weapons stores, the patrols of the Red Sea and Eastern Med, the regional intelligence, the real world combat expertise that Israel provides? Israel now provides military hardware - drones, targeting pods, armor, and a lot more - that today are saving US lives in the field. And what's the value of the hundreds of improvements Israel passes back to the US manufacturers? Now tell me what the Arab countries give back to the US.
I think it is a good thing that the IDF is procuring F35's. I wonder if it would be a better idea for the USAF to review the IDF's requests for electronic upgrades to IDF standards, as these 'may be' ? better that the USAF's current. I would hope the IAF shares some of it's own high tech helping it's dear friend the USA & saving some US development dollars. The Israel Defence Industry is quite sophisticated & close co-op is good for all. I was very pleased with the way US Marines adopted IDF techniques in close quarter (house to house)fighting in Fallugah...many Marine lives were saved thanks to the IDF!!!
iran right now and for seeable future will not have the ability to even fend off israel's current technology. so skip this plan and develop the generation after uav. it will be less expensive and better then giving the US all that money with nothing to show for us. besides they need us way more on this plane then we need them!!
Lets see the facts, the US give the money to Israel to buy the guns from the US. If the US stop giving that money, Israel will buy it from someone that sells it cheaper (a.k.a. the russians). If Israel buy them from someone else, the american industry lose a big consumer of its products, have to reduce its production, americans lose their jobs, than their houses and so on and on. The point is, america inst "giving" the guns to Israel, even if in the end Israel get them for "free", but subsiding their own warfare industry. So please, stop whinning about "tax money" becuse that is just one of the small things the US goverment use to garantee that the american population keep their jobs and their life standards.
"Small boys should sit qietly and shut up" Small states that live on another country's tax money should sit down and keep even quieter....
To smash Gaza civilians again? To destroy Lebanon's infrastructure again?
Small boys should sit qietly and shut up.
No israel, No Palestine. One State Solution is the best for all. One Man, One Vote, Equality for all inhabitants. Equal Pay for Equal Work, Equal Water Rights. No Apartheid, No Segregation...A Very True Secular Democracy. Let us call it :?State of Holy Land?.
"Thousands of Pals are kept in custody, the Gaza siege for which there is no legal or moral ground is kept. Israel acts in contradiction with dozens of UN resolutions, Israel may accept a temporary freeze of settlements but not the principle of a permanent one, water is stolen, Jerusalem and Right of Return are excluded from the beginning, etc." You have summarised Israel's illegal positions very well indeed.
"If a plane had no American contributions in terms of technology or development cost then they have no right to make demands or veto exports" I completely agree, if American money is not being used to buy these planes....
"CAN THE US TAXPAYERS AFFORD TO HAVE ISRAEL BUY SOMEBODY ELSES PLANES AND DROP PLANS TO GET F35?" YES WE CAN!
"The other option could be to join Russia & India in their planned G5 stealth fighter program." Great idea. A paper aircraft available post-2020 if all runs well. How to pay for it still seems to be a problem that you silently avoid.
I do hope that Britain stands to the decision to build and operate 2 carriers. Given their size, I doubt that the decision to operate STOVL aircraft from them was a sound one. A navalised Typhoon or even sharing a Rafale force with the French would make more sense both economically and militarily.
... when Zionists talk about "buying" in the US. It is US money and does not even ever leave the American continent.
Increased military cooperation is a wrong signal at a time when Israel stalls any peace progress. Thousands of Pals are kept in custody, the Gaza siege for which there is no legal or moral ground is kept. Israel acts in contradiction with dozens of UN resolutions, Israel may accept a temporary freeze of settlements but not the principle of a permanent one, water is stolen, Jerusalem and Right of Return are excluded from the beginning, etc. Under theese circumstances, when the Israeli position excludeds any peace, such increased cooperation (as if everything is normal) would send a totally wrong signal.
Spending Money? Buying US? USA is giving the planes for "FREE"!! Which means you don't pay a CENT!!!
You guys think America will pay for French or Chinese fighters? Dream on.
The F-35 is over a generation later than any aircraft operated by the IAF. The integration of airframe, electronics, sensors and emitters is very tight and critical to the maintenance of it's stealth characteristics. Israel wishes to reduce the foreign content by installing it's own electronics, especially ECM in the aircraft. While this makes sense in a monetary and nationalist light, it does not necessarily make sense in a military perspective. Such tampering could reduce the effectiveness of the aircraft and will most certainly delay it's entry into service. It could well be a trade-off between foreign exchange and higher overall costs.
US military aid is supposed to be spent in America but if we decided to invest in a project with India & Russia we would be spending Israeli taxpayer money and there is no obligation to spend that in the US. The only cost to US taxpayers is the fact that Israel will not be spending money on an American plane military aid an annual subsidy to commit Israel into buying US but the bulk of the cost comes from Israel taxpayers. US taxpayers won't be getting any Israeli money invested into their arms companies and if Israel could become a partner with another country US taxpayers would loose out Israeli taxpayers would benefit from every plane sold. If a plane had no American contributions in terms of technology or development cost then they have no right to make demands or veto exports CAN THE US TAXPAYERS AFFORD TO HAVE ISRAEL BUY SOMEBODY ELSES PLANES AND DROP PLANS TO GET F35? You guys need us more than we need you when it comes to the F35.
Beggars are being choosers!! LOL
Before the Sufa blows the Ruach.
"Condition" or Else We Won`t Buy Them w/ Your $" Then you won't get any more of our $....
"Although the US will try veto Israel from exporting it but they can`t stop Russia or India and Israel will get a share of the royalties & the US cant object" Isn't American taxpayer money given to Israel supposed to be spent in America?
"The United States will not be amused if you spend it in China" I agree, but the point is, will America make any sort of protest? Israel gets away with everything it wants where America is concerned.
The F35 is exactly what Israel does not need as its next generation fighter. F35 is a multi role fighter & the bulk of Israels fleet are multi role ( F16 ) which we so we would be wanting hundreds eventually and we can't afford it at $130 each. As its next generation multi role fighter Israel should either buy the G4.5 Eurofighter which is the best multi role on the market today its about $80 million each and can already carry Israeli munitions & Europeans would let us customise the electronics. The other option could be to join Russia & India in their planned G5 stealth fighter program. That would also mean for a minimum share of development cost Israel could get a jet it was involved in the development of, a condition could be it does anything it likes to its planes maybe even building all or parts of the plane in Israel. Although the US will try veto Israel from exporting it but they can't stop Russia or India and Israel will get a share of the royalties & the US cant object.
There is a full defence review being undertaken. It is more likely we will get the Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers and the Trident Project will not be replaced. With the UK's nuclear deterrent being placed on Astute Submarines in the form of nuclear cruise missiles. Or in the form of standoff missiles such as Storm Shadow. But you are right it does depend on the next General Election because the Tories will not be interested in protecting jobs in the north where the aircraft carriers would be built, and they are rather fond of their nuclear weapons.
I shall be convinced that UK gets the F-35B when the first dozen aircraft has been delivered. At the moment it seems even uncertain if the RN will ever get its two Queen Elizabeth class carriers ...
the real problem is keeping the jet inferior to the F-22, the F-35 with Israeli upgrades might be a concern to America
The Americans argued that the avionics suite of the F-35 cannot be changed. Of course it can, Lockheed Martin should open a production plant in Israel, if Lockheed lacks the know-how
Israel will get the F-35 for nothing, because the USA has already set aside the US military aid money for Israel to "purchase" this fighter i.e. Israel will be "paying" for this plane using money supplied to it by the US taxpayer. That's one of the reasons why the Americans are peeved by this Israeli demand i.e. this is a way for Israel to siphon off that US aid money and spend it inside Israel, instead of inside the USA (where it is meant to be spent). Israel is attempting to pocket billions of US taxpayer funded dollars, and the Pentagon is right to be miffed about it.
I fully agree, but the money given by the American taxpayer is to be spent in the United States. The United States will not be amused if you spend it in China.
owner of the F35. The United Kingdom is building (not helping to build) the S-TOL version. It is highly unlikely that the UK will allow Israel to sell the engine designs to China as they have done in the past.
No doubt the USA will allow your brothers to use the electronics and avionics technology they have developed in the planes they purchase
Lockheed is probably going to use the Israeli upgrade.
Lockheed Martin corporation is a big part of the Military Industrial Complex PROBLEM that former U.S. President Dwight David Eisenhower warned about when he retired from office.
These aircraft will end up being delivered LATE and OVER BUDGET, and have virtually no operational benefits for the overall IAF posture. Several existing jets are cheaper and much more capable to configure with Israeli avionics and weapons systems, and can be ordered today to fit into the IAF program for many years to come -- the French RAFALE and the Chinese JF17.