U.S. falls short in bid to gain support for Israel's settlement freeze

CJK: "of course, the russians are to blame for the failure of this particular diplomatic iniciative" W.T.F!!!!! The Russians objected to "stating that Israel will be a Jewish State, and that the borders will be altered on the basis of 'developments' on the ground, namely Israeli annexation of the large settlement blocks." They had no choice but to object to those two policies being enshrined in a QUARTET statement, because those are LIKUD and NEOCON policies. Including them would destroy any claim the Quartet had to being an "honest broker", and reduce them to the level of "Israel's shill". The Russians couldn't possibly allow that statement to stand as-is, and the only reason why the Americans could have put it forward was if they had promised Netanyahu that they would give it a try. I would imagine that the Americans folded on this almost instantly, to their own great relief.

D: "It seems strange that Obama wanted to load this simple declaration with all kinds of controversial final status decisions that are not related to whether or not the freeze is a good idea." Indeed. Because the bits the ruskies did object to amount to nothing more than a Likud policy statement. And the only LOGICAL reason why Obama would attempt to insert an ad for Likud in a Quartet statement is if he is following Netanyahu's orders that This Must Be Done. Obama wouldn't do that because he is an admirer of Bibi; it would have been a quid-pro-quo i.e. Netanyahu would ONLY agree to THIS farce of a freeze IF the USA pushed for a statement of support for his position from the Quartet. D: "Maybe he`s just trying to kill the declaration" I suspect Obama was not terribly fussed that he had to say to Netanyahu: "Well, Bibi, I tried just like I said I would, but Putin canned it".

The fact that the entire international community "agrees" to the illegality of settlements is utter tautology, and doesn't make them illegal per se. The argument for the legality of settlements is rock solid, and the only way to avow their illegality is through bias and emotional interpretation. Settlements are only illegal is you contort the law to that effect. Now that Hizballah (as being integrated into the Lebanese government) is now part of the UN Security Council, do we really have much respect for the aforementioned community anyways?

The USA keeps failing to follow through on Obama's Cairo speech. Fortunately Russia stood-up for a viable Palestine this time.

The so-called "freeze" is a joke. It is, at best, a partial freeze, and Netanyahu has said that the building will go full steam ahead once the time period ends.

Both want to undermine US position in the reagion and strenthen their own. Pushing US into dumping its best ally is a way to achieve it, so Russia abd EU try it

The originators of the pogroms that drove Jews out of lands under its control in the 19th and early 20th centuries, Russia has also been the main supplier of nuclear technology to Iran. It also supported Arafat, the only leader to appear at the UN waving weapons and promising war, rather than peace. No wonder they did not want a policy that would help Jews in Israel

The answer - Johnboy and CJ will hopefully correct me if I'm wrong in the detail - is that the West Bank's status has not changed since 1947. It was and remains a 'non-state entity', i.e. a state that exists but has not yet declared itself to be a sovereign state. When Jordan conquered it in 1948, it held it as a trustee only. It didn't declare sovereignty over it, so its status was unchanged. When Israel's army invaded it, the army only gained the rights of 'belligerent occupation'. That means the army (not the GOI) has the TEMPORARY right to occupy the land until hostilities cease. It can not annex land, settle Jewish people there, impose Israeli law there etc. and must support the civil power, the PA. It is legally impossible for the WB to become Israeli territory without the consent of the civil authority (the PA). So no, it did NOT become Israel's land. It is prohibited in law to gain territory by conquest.

What on earth is happening in the State Department? All the statement needed to do was welcome Israel's settlement freeze, regret that it did not cover E Jerusalem, urge Israel to cease all settlement building in EJ'sem for the 10-month period and urge the PA to commence talks on that basis. Everyone would have signed that without dissent. What is this political claptrap that has appeared in it about 'a Jewish state' and borders 'reflecting developments on the ground'? These are very contentious final status issues and precisely the kind of things the two sides are meant to discuss and arm-wrestle about. It is no help to anyone the US trying to prejudge them like this. Has AIPAC been leaning on Hillary and David Hale or something? Revealing incidents like this just underline the impossibility of the USA ever being an honest broker in the dispute. State should be ashamed of such a clumsy, amateur, partisan effort and for being picked up by Russia, G_d bless 'em and well done.

There's no way Israel will relinquish any land so hard won from failing armies & terrorists. That insanity ends. Look at Gaza.

The Americans should understand by now that the Russians cannot be trusted. They will too try and spoil any strong sanctions action against Iran.

Netanyahu, Barak, and Livni need to sit down with Obama, Biden, and Hillary and hammer out all the details of the final status negotiations. Then they need to sell it to the EU and the rest of the world as the best case scenario for an actual resolution to the conflict. And then they need to implement it unilaterally. Why this way? Because, let's face it, no PA leader is going to be able to reach a deal with Israel, especially with Hamas hanging over their shoulder. And any peace negotiations with Hamas would prove pointless, because their demands would be considered unreasonable by Israel. An agreement forced on the Palestinians will be met with terrorism, but so would any agreement. The terrorists are not going to go away just because a bunch of politicians sign a piece of paper. Ergo, the only people of power that Israel needs to appease are the Americans first and foremost, and the Europeans secondarily.

and killed and drove out all the Jews, WB became essentially Jordan. When Israel took WB back and drove out the Jordan military, it became .... No, it became Israel. To do what is wants with it. Israel is willing to give a lot of it to the Arabs, but not all. That seems more than fair, considering all the hostilities against Israel for 60 plus years." If we do follow that line of argument, then from 1967 onwards it should have treated the West Bank and Gaza like a part of Israel proper, and include the Arab residents in the general population of Israel. Israel cannot have both a Jewish majority and a Palestinian State as its neighbor at the same time following your logic. And let's not talk about hostilities on the Israeli side against its neighbors, as well - starting with that little covert war in Suez, courtesy of its alliance with France and England. Early evidence of more land grabbing, some could argue.

of course, the russians are to blame for the failure of this particular diplomatic iniciative. however, the new american administration blundered when it proposed a unilateral initative without an actual diplomatic plan and without the assurances of those whom america wanted to include in the initiative.

and killed and drove out all the Jews, WB became essentially Jordan. When Israel took WB back and drove out the Jordan military, it became .... That seems to be the question. Did it automatically become the Arabs' property? That would be rather strange wouldn't it? There is no more sense to say that than to say it became part of Iceland or Colorado. No, it became Israel. To do what is wants with it. Israel is willing to give a lot of it to the Arabs, but not all. That seems more than fair, considering all the hostilities against Israel for 60 plus years.

....are regarded as illegal by most in the International community, while the Arabs claim for East-Jerusalem is not.

....MUST also be against this U.S. draft, because both predetermine the outcome of future negotiations. Sorry guys, but can't have it both ways.....

...wanted to load this simple declaration with all kinds of controversial final status decisions that are not related to whether or not the freeze is a good idea. Maybe he's just trying to kill the declaration . Then he can blame the Russians for the failure of the peace process. And he'll look like a big supporter of Israel. When really he was the one who made sure the declaration was so lopsided that it would not go through. Not stupid, huh?

the Russians are right not to support it.

You must really want Biden or you completely lack any understanding of the US system. We have a Presidential system, not a Parliamentary system. We don't go to elections early, ever, under any circumstance.

Back in the old days, it was the U.S. that protect the weak and dispossessed. Things have changed and now it is the Russians that protect the weak and dispossessed.

The Russian response is everything that would be expected by sensible individuals who would not want to overwhelmingly favor one side in the negotiations. The US declaration is self-contradictory, calling for a 'viable' Palestinian state based on the 1967 borders while also calling for a 'Jewish state' that honors 'developments' on the ground. Everyone knows by looking at any map that these 'developments' push the border into the West Bank, thereby making the 1967 border a non-possibility. Unless Israel is willing to say that it is going to keep 50-60% of the 1967 border, and push the rest of it inside the West Bank so it can cut off the land and still control the Palestinian state whenever it feels it will serve its purpose.

Another Obama diplomatic failure . The only one that agrees with Obama is Obama,Obama resign .

.... when even the Russians - of all people, the RUSSIANS! - demonstrate a greater committment to basic principles of justice and fairness than a nation that now can only be described as "Israel's shill". How appalling that Hillary Clinton should be pimping Likud's policy platform, rather than promoting the USA's national interest. That was the agreed price for accepting this "farce" as a "freeze", was it? Shameless. Utterly shameless.

So unfreeze !

Farce of a freeze? This is another US political move to support Israel , but the US is off base compared to the rest of the world. There is very little to support in israel's offer Israel feels that if it gives back stolen it had to get something in return. I guess peace is not enough.

The building permit slowdown is nothing like anything near an actual freeze in construction. Israel doesn't have the will or enough people to actually stop construction where is says it will be stopped. Get real. The slowdown in issuing permits is a sham. The US proposed statement as described here was not sufficiently clear that Israel would cede 1:1 for each sq cm it proposes to keep from the conquest of 67, including water and other resources. Netanyahu and Barak undermined the effort by making the permit slowdown into a sham with all their exceptions. Mitchell & Clinton cant make a silk purse from a sow's ear.

Fortunately we have the russian government to stand in front of Israel and its unconditional and biased US ally, because Europe seems very too much chicken to do make this justice.

The Russians understand that a commitment to "developments on the ground" as the USA proposes simply undermines the potential for a contiguous, viable Palestinian state. "Developments on the ground" is a code phrase which institutionalizes the Jewish settlements as a permanent part of Israel. Palestine needs such support from Russia, the EU, GB and the UN to offset the USA's subtle effort to blindly support Israel at a cost of fragmenting Palestine.

It seems as if Israel is now giving the poodle poodle Obama the text of declarations. Only through negotiations right Bibi?

Whenever I discuss the one state situation, my posting is rejected, but I'll try again. "At the crux of the Russian objections were two points...the Jewish identity of the State of Israel, and that the future border between Israel and the Palestinians would reflect developments on the ground." The settlers have made such a dog's breakfast of Palestine that a viable two state solution is no longer possible. Borders reflecting facts on the ground would legitimise theft, leaving the Palestinians with a divided, truncated state, and trading good land for desert. The only possible solution now is a single state with equal rights for all. As such, recognition of Israel as a Jewish state has become impossible. Russia is merely stating the obvious. Israel does not have the courage nor willingness to stand up to the settlers, and will, therefore, eventually cease to be a Jewish state. It is truly unfortunate, and needn't have been this way. Thank the settlers.

Much like the Obama administration's peace efforts, the "settlement freeze" is a joke. Between the 3000 homes approved just before the announcement, the construction of some 50 public buildings in the settlements, and the continued expulsion of Palestinians from East Jerusalem...the supposed "settlement freeze" is a total joke.

The US is imploding due to excessive dollar creation. The Fed is creating fake money as computer bits and bytes, giving it to government owned banks like BofA and Citi, then demanding they buy treasury bonds to keep what's left of the greenback afloat. The value of the dollar is in freefall on the world market and the price of gold is skyrocketing, now solidly above $1200/oz. The only good news is that the new US President isn't pulling any troops out of the ME and is in fact sending more. There are more US troops in the ME today than there were on the last day of the Bush presidency with more on the way.

The settlement freeze does more to stop peace talks than helps and it could cause a slow down in foreign Jews moving to settlements. The Roadmap calls for a full freeze and a stop to terrorist attacks. If the US allow for facts on the ground to stand then they are preconditions to negotiations and much like the Sweden/EU declaration on E. Jerusalem. Any negotiations between Israel and PA is doomed without some framework that brings them close to a deal with some pressure to make it happen, otherwise they will still be going when the next war starts. If US fails to force Israel to honor Roadmap fully then bothside should start rearming for the next war, which is looking more likely now.

to Russia for standing up for justice.