Turkey President: I'll visit Israel only after life in Gaza improves

Why aren't Hamas trading through Egypt? Or is Egypt occupying Gaza as well ?

rc: "It is a de jure Occupied Territory but Israel is ignoring its legal duties as occupying power." Got it in one. Israelis insist that "disengagement" ended Israel's status as the "occupying power". [Interestingly enough, SHARON made no such claim when he set out his disengagment plan before the Knesset] The Israeli apologists are wrong, and you are right: Israel didn't *end* its status as "occupying power", it merely refused to live up to the obligations/responsibilities that come from being an "occupying power". War. Crime.

y: "israel would have legal obligations to gaza if egypt did not have a border with the strip.we are not the only neighbour with a border." Egypt recognizes that Israel is the legal "occupying power". Which means that Egypt recognizes that Israel has "authority" over Gaza's territory, and that includes having "authority" over Gaza's borders. So if the Israeli Minister of Defense tells Egypt that the border is closed the THE F**KING BORDER IS CLOSED, and Egypt must either: 1) Comply with that directive or 2) Go to war with Israel over the fate of Gaza. Egypt has no intention of going to war over Gaza, and so 1) IF Israel orders the border to be closed 2) THEN Egypt must close that border. It. Really. Is. As. Simple. As. That.

DJ: "He clearly writes that, pushed by Nasser, he started shelling Jerusalem and bombing Tel Aviv and Haifa," *sigh* Jordan and Egypt had signed a self-defense pact. That meant that an attack on Egypt was an attack on Jordan, and an attack on Jordan was an attack on Egypt. If you want to know how the concept works then look up "NATO". DJ: "The UN General, Odd Bull, contacted him with a message from Eshkol practicallt begging him to stop the aggression, but the King, hoping to get parts of Israel, continued the aggression, and he LOST!!" *sigh* Germany attacked Poland. Germany practically BEGGED Britain and France not to declare war merely because Germany was attacking Poland. Too. F**king. Bad. Britain, France and Poland had all signed a self-defense pact, and so Britain and France had no choice but to act under the terms of that treaty. That's how self-defense pacts work, Dr. Jack. Didn't anyone tell you that when you were in Bonn?

. . .because of several points, but two of its important are, that the 1915 megamassacre was not the 1st and not the last ( 1895: 100 - 200,000 armeninans; 1924 in Smyrna/ Izmir 25.000 dead incl. the Arcbishop/expelled 200tsd, ff. several after 1945) pogromes and expulsion against armenian and greek CHRiSTIANs ! - It followes an asian/islamic tradition, what also "knoks" on YOUR boarders! - AND, the founders of the Tuerk Republic, the "new tuerks", also had been several years and leading in the califate goverment before. And during the change, the turks tried to anihilate the russian armenians in 1920, but failed ! So you only see the surface, but not the content of the mongole/islamis anti-christian ( and anti-jewish !) history of destruction and anihilation ! - Hitler, the proclaiming and not understanded massmuder until today, said it clearly at 11.12.1930 and 22.8.1939 ralating positively on Jingis Chan and the Armenian's genozide as his model of archaic tribe's society.

Turkey will one day be with Iran and Russia when they attack Israel, along with a host of other muslim terrorist states. The Bible has predicted over 500 prophecies that have come true. Ezekiel 38 & 39 predict a host of countries will attack Israel and God will supernaturally intervene and destroy 5/6th of the whole attacking force. The Israelis will be burying the dead for 7 months on the mountains of Israel. My point: Turkey is no friend of Israel and will one day turn upon them. Tell Turkey to take a flying leap off a high cliff!

With Hamas in control of Gaza except for borders, it is simple too dangerous to let them build their base up. The problem is that 52% of population is refugees with most living in camps most their lives. Israel hopes to make life so hard with very limited food, bad water and sewage to push people back to PA to hopefully get a better life. If Hamas could make a deal with Egypt then that will change the playing field but unlikely right now. They should being in seeds and use every inch to plant gardens and rebuild with mud bricks.

You Zionists seem not to want or need any friends in the world. You explain all of your illegal activities on the basis that other countries have done horrible things in their past. You have done them too, more recently and continually to the present, but the world now says STOP. It is not only your activities but your arrogant attitudes towards others that is causing anti-semitism to rise in the world. You can try and try to re-write your history and put spins on the truth, but the world is waking up.

While Israel might have fired the first shot, your concept of who "launched" that war is totally absurd. Back to school with you.

As a refugee, when the Islamists take over the Turkish government. It's just a matter of (short) time.

Exactly the point that should be made!

Isn't interesting how ignorant people make statements without any proof?? To give you some much needed education, go to the library and read King Hussein's book, "My war with Israel" published in 1968 and printed around the world. I was at the Jordanian Embassy in Bonn in 68, as an editor with an US Broadcasting organization, when the book was launched, and I still have a copy. He clearly writes that, pushed by Nasser, he started shelling Jerusalem and bombing Tel Aviv and Haifa, The UN General, Odd Bull, contacted him with a message from Eshkol practicallt begging him to stop the aggression, but the King, hoping to get parts of Israel, continued the aggression, and he LOST!! Therefore BDS, please stop spreading the BS!!

After the invasion of Cyprus in 1974 Turkey emptied out the entire city of Famagusta (Magosa). After 35 years the people of Famagusta still cannot go back and live in their own homes. It is a ghost city. Recently it was published in the Turkish media that mass graves of Greeks were found in northern Cyprus. There are still many missing Greeks since 1974. About Turkish brutality: Where do i begin: 1941 Varlik Vergisi or 1936 Kirklareli pogroms, or 1955 Sptember 6-7 incidents? Or shall we go back to 1914 Armenian forced exile? Would you rather talk about the siege of Vienna?

When Hamas stops sending rockets into Israeli cities, when Hamas Releases a kidnaped soldier, when Hamsa stops smuggeling Arms into Gaza, and when Hamas stops teasing Christians in Gaza. * Looks like you and your prime minister are turning the blind eye on Hamas.

You've got a flawed premise there, Mikey! It was Israel which launched the 1967 war, not the Arabs.

i do not see how you sustain your argument that israel should support gaza with medicine finance and utilities. we left gaza. there is an arab nation with a border with gaza.what is our responsibility for the strip?and waht is it based on?do explain.we have no treaty with gaza.we left.no israelis in gaza.

"Let him stay in Turkey and bone up on his history of the Armenian genocide." I love how some people on these threads respond to criticism of Israel. If it's from Americans or Australians, its "Go back to Europe and give the native people the land back." If it's from Turkey, they have to look up the Armenian genocide. The Armenian genocide was a horrific part of history, but it was carried out by the Ottomans in 1915-1917. So because the former rulers of his country, (a government in no way connected to his own) committed atrocities before he was born, he has no right to comment on the atrocities you're carrying out in the present? That's warped logic. One more thing, although criticism from a hypocrite is difficult to stomach, it doesn't automatically make the criticism or the points raised baseless.

israel would have legal obligations to gaza if egypt did not have a border with the strip.we are not the only neighbour with a border. so you cannot justify your assertion that gaza is cut off with its only outside border being israel.so gaza is not occupied.

the guards at the border with gaza would not be needed if they did not shoot and kidnap our soldiers.

Israel did not create the problems in Gaza. In giving Gaza $14000000.00, Israel was promoting Gaza to stand on its own. Gaza is in the position it is because of constant threats by outlaw leaders to kill Jews and steal land. They must make peace, because Israel is not going to stand for Hamas etal crossing into Israel to kill, destroy, bomb and taint the Holy Land of the Jews and Christians.

Hey Ahmet, let not Turkey forget everything horrible thing it's ever commited: the Armenian, Greek, and Assyrian genocides, the oppression of the Kurdish people, and the military occupation and colonisation of Northern Cyprus. The hypocrisy coming from Turkey is so thick you can almost cut it with a knife.

Turkey government became suddely so ethical! Why dont you improve the humaitarian situation of your own kurdish and other minorities before providing a moral lecture to others!!!

until that clown in charge of turkey takes a hike nothing will improve. That clown is a radicalized islamic fanatic who held his views hidden for quite a while but his real essence just came out. I like turks but do not like current inti-Israel policy.

'in what way do we occupy gaza when they have a free route and a long border to the largest arab nation with its population of 82 millions?' ISRAEL is the Occupying Power, not Egypt. It's the one with the open-air prison and its armed guards on the camp gates. In that capacity, it has LEGAL obligations regarding the supply, feeding, clothing, shelter, medical care, protection, maintenance of order and governance of the people it is occupying. The requirements are set out at length in Geneva Convention 1V. Failure to meet any part of that is a humanitarian crime. Egypt is not the occupying power. Why would it want to take on Israel's legal responsibilities? Typical Israeli attitude, lock all the gates and starve everyone, so that some other sucker will take on its legal, moral and - of course! - financial obligations. Tough luck, the Egyptians won't play Israel's obvious game.

Nobody denies Hamas "fighting" for whatever. What is objectionable is the use of deadly weapons against surrounding civilian areas. All Hamas has to do is 1. Release Shalit 2. Stop use of deadly force (missiles in particular) 3. Start paying attention to Gazan citizens, such as by paying attention to sewage and water needs. 4. Burn their silly Charter and write a new one that is realistic. If you could help them toward these steps, you would be a positive force, rather than a pro-terrorist nut job. You are welcome.

... only after Hamas and friends leave?

A few days ago in a news show in USA Mat Lauer was talking about the Iranian incursion to an Iraqi oil field. A map was shown where the east of Turkey was depipcted as KURDISTAN. When Turkey was not led by Erdogan and used to be friendly with Israel and the Jewish lobby in the USA (I was an active member when we convinced the USA government to lift the arms embargoe) would not allow such a map to be shown. Look at what Erdogan did for Turkey. If yo uelect a leader from the Football fields of Kasimpasa you end up with bloody bruises all over your body.

Since Turkey invaded Cyprus in 1974 the city of Famagusta is empty. Turks kicked out all the inhabitants and left the entire city to rot. The people of famagusta lost their homes and became refugees. You must have read in the Turkish press recently that mass graves were discovered in the north of Cyprus of Greeks who were captured then executed and burried in mas graves. There are still many unaccounted Greeks in Cyprus since the invasion. Altough you do not accept the Armenian incident of 1914-15 as genocide I am sure you cannot deny that under the hands of Turks thousands of Armenians were forced to an exile and died during the march. Even the historian Justin Mc'Carthy admits to it. Talk about brutality. Israel needs all the friends that she can have like Turkey does. The difference is that Israel has leaders with common sense and can make up and move on while Turkey is led by a thug from Kasimpasa who is riding on the democracy bus until he gets to his real destination

and they can damned well lie in it. They elected Hamas, chose to continue terrorism against Israel and rejected progressing to be an independent state. I'm sorry Turkey has such stupid and regressive leadership at present. It's a beautiful country with largely fine people.

... working within the democratic framework of modern Turkey, and wanting to win elections and remain in power, have political realities with which they must deal: '[Turkish president Gul] told Peres that the Turkish public is uneasy about unfavorable developments in Israel and the territories ...' So for Mr Gul to hold off on a visit to Israel until 'the humanitarian situation in Gaza improves', is not a shocking or unreasonable course, at least not from his perspective. MV

Life in Gaza would improveimmediately if Hamas made intelligent decisions for the citizens of Gaza.

"why would we block some trade with gaza and blockade their sea lanes? would we bother with such stuff without the rocket and mortar attacks?" Sure you would! All those gas wells ro be placed in Gazan waters is more than enough motive to blockade Gaza, destroy Gazan fishing boats, and deny access to such groups as the Free Gaza Movement! Lots of $$$. Don'r you have contracts drawn up and contractors waiting in line? If you don't, for shame! You will never make it on Wall Street. And then, shhhh! There is that gas line that somebody (shhhh) plans to build through Gazan waters while the rest of the world isn't watching. Wars may be fought by patriots; but they are engineered by businessmen. They may be fought for glory; but the real payoff goes into businessmens' bank accounts.

According to the Greek Cypriots and Kurds thousands of their civilians have been slaughtered by the Turkish military. Still wanna talk about Gazans?

leave the Kurdish areas it should never have been in and give them independence and while Turkey is at it, they can start paying reparations to the Armenians and admit their disgusting genocide against thes people. When you have done that Mr Gul, then come to Israel... and just by the way, your moving closer to Syria and Iran isn't actually inducive to making you worth knowing or having closer relations with.

the greeks do not fight you so you do not need controls.but you cannot deny having taken cyprus by force.

jews always worry ahmet.

no one denies turkey is important.you do not have to convince us. on water desalination is now rather cheap so i do not think importing water is a valid proposition.

and we hardly took part in it.the verbal war was very much one sided.

"Advice to Israel`s politicians; do not take advice from or invite to Israel leaders from the third world." Such irony! Israel IS a nation of the Third World! In fact, she is one of the very first nations of the Third World. The trouble is, she likes to think of herself as a leading part of the First World, which she is not, and sees her future as a colonial power expanding in her own tiny region of Asia. So she is four centuries behind the times. Some day she will catch up. Maybe.

Those who criticise Turkey and especially those who think Israel should forget about turkey...Well Israel should be worried about losing turkey as they truely are at the moment.Turkey isnt like Syria, Eygpt,Jordan.Iran or Lebanon. It has a real and functioning financial and banking system with an export and import system, enormous resources and economic growth. Its economic and military strength has doubled in 10 years and they have WATER that Israel will need. And as Turkey gets stronger in the folowing years its influence in the middle east will increase along with clout. So for the long term, Israel better be worried. And on the subject of Kurds and Cyprus...Show me daily incursions,bloackades, walls,demolitions,civilian casualties and checkpoints etc. The list goes on.Yeah it has its mistakes but no way can you compare it with the brutality of Israel against palestinian civilians.

"It's comedy time in Copenhagen" Sounds like a Roger's & Hammerstein hit musical starring: Bela Lugosi as Peres Sidney Greenstreet as Ehud Barak Marilyn Monroe as Tzipi Livni William Warfield as Barack Obama Vincent Price as Olmert Claude Rains as Netanyahu and featuring Humphrey Bogart as Uval Diskin.

the whole world messes with us.

thank you. you say hamas is fighting us for the west bank.why would they do so when the people of the region have stopped fighting us? in what way do we occupy gaza when they have a free route and a long border to the largest arab nation with its population of 82 millions?

How much did Israel spend on its 60th birthday when there are Holocaust survivors chioosing between whether to be warm or to eat, or even worse sleeping on a park bench in a park where dog owners take their dogs to do their 'business'. Hamas alledgedly spent the $2 million on a party because Israeli Jews would not allow the importation of baby milk and medicines.

you may agree we are not irrational.why would we block some trade with gaza and blockade their sea lanes? would we bother with such stuff without the rocket and mortar attacks? so why do you post so fully without mentioning the reason for the sea blockade?

a sort of jibe.that is your privilege. the "jewish made ghetto" alas cummings has a very non jewish exit in the form of a huge border with egypt.

the Occupied territory prosecuting it,s support of illegal settlements and Jews only communities. Give it a rest. The number register in the trillions. But not to worry---the Citizens of the united States paid 1/4 of that cost. But I think they may getting rather weary of footing the bill. Maybe they would rather pay for Hamas,s celebrations---much less expensive at just 2 million anually.

"It`s in big part in the hands of the Gaza inhabitants to improve their situation, not in Israel`s." Can we assume that you also think that it was "in big part in the hands of the" concentration camp prisoners to improve their situation", not in Germany's? Blaming the victim is easy for you, and so is proposing simplistic solutions to problems that you seem to know very little about.

..And the President of Israel will visit Turkey after its acceptance to the EU. Can anyone imagine the Islamist Turkey, "brother" of Iran, being accepted as a member of the European Union ?

It's in big part in the hands of the Gaza inhabitants to improve their situation, not in Israel's.

'Blaming Israel for the rotten state of many Gazans situation is unconvincing to the ordinary person living in a free society.' Israeli Grandma. Not too many free societies share that Israeli perspective Grandma. To Israel, Gaza is an Islamist territory led by terrorists and a threat to them. From the outside, it looks very different. We see 1.5 million arabs, mainly refugees living in camps, walled up in a Jewish-made ghetto. Israel guards the checkpoints, blockades the coast and lets no one in or out. It controls all food, water and material, which it keeps to below subsistence level and uses as a political lever. It is a de jure Occupied Territory but Israel is ignoring its legal duties as occupying power. Gaza civilians - i.e. Arabs - are being collectively punished solely because Hamas fights srael's illegal occupation of Palestine. To the outside world, Israel appears only cruel, uncivilised, blinkered and somewhat sadistic. (And that was before Cast Lead).

Allies to Jews in WWII. Cynicaly use them to achive political goals. Even if PA signs a deal with Israel, Iran, Turkey etc. will call PA traitors, Will support some splinter terrorist orginazations who rejects peace, will continue propaganda against Israel. Nothing will change except for Palestinians disappiering from news but still left as stateles people in Arab states.

That will do the trick.

HELLO, Mr. President Abdullah Gul, tell us about how you treat your Kurds in east Turkey. Clean your own house before you talk about Gaza.

There's a lot of suffering going on there right this very moment.

Now if hypocrisy was an Olympic sport, Turkey would be a gold medalist. I suggest that the Turks start by seriously viewing the latest report from Amnesty International and taking serious steps to improve the situation of not only minorities in Turkey, but half the population of women who are exposed to extreme violence on a regular basis. I can understand the occasional criticism that comes from the EU regarding Israel's stance on the Palestinian situation, but I'm at a loss with the fixation on Gaza by the Turks who seem to be lately pointing out a tiny splinter in Israel's eye but refuse to see the oak tree in their own face. Advice to Israel's politicians; do not take advice from or invite to Israel leaders from the third world.

Israel and Turkey are more natural enemies than friends, so why does Israel keep trying to woo Turkey? It will never move out of step with the rest of the Islamic world, who will not act until the Palesitnian problem is solved Israel should get on with that and then look for normalisation in the rest of the area.

Hamas in Gaza just spent $2M on a mass rally last Monday, (no promised "surprises" delivered of course), attendance was mandatory. How does one accept the pretence of Turkish sympathy with Gazans sufferings, when Hamas leaders can publicly waste such a disgraceful amount of money on a political self-promotion demo? How much food, medicines and essential services should have been provided to the ordinary Gazan instead? Blaming Israel for the rotten state of many Gazans situation is unconvincing to the ordinary person living in a free society.

Let him stay in Turkey and bone up on his history of the Armenian genocide.

even the worst kind of people could appreciate the hardship the civilians in Gaza has endured in the past few years, not only from Israel, but by the countless mistakes Hamas made since getting elected. time to lift the siege on the people of Gaza..

We have enough corrupt politicians of our own.

and leave Gazans alone.

Wouldn't be politically correct to be seen as condoning Israeli war crimes in Gaza - might not go down too well with the Turkish electorate - much easier to wait and see how the Goldstone report is progressing!

Look at it this way: Turkey recognizes Israel's right to exist. That's progress! And life in Gaza will improve only when Gazans do the same thing.

Life in Gaza has nothing to do with Israels military responses to being bombed on a daily basis, it has to do with a terrorist regime in the like enclave that apparently: TURKEY SUPPORTS. So, ice up the relationship with Israel and stay in your little sand bucket on the sea. So much for turkey.

"When Arab statesmen insist that Israel withdraw to the pre-June, 1967 lines, one can only ask: If those lines are so sacred to the Arabs, why was the Six-Day War launched to destroy them?"

waste a generation. you made the wrong choice

I thought the Turkey got eaten at Thanksgiving??! How about if Shimon (the man whose head recalls Coppola's Dracula) had said he'll visit the Turkey when the Turks admit to slaughtering hundreds of thousands of Armenians? I'm sure Count Shimon accomplished much in his jet-setting-NOT. Israel just seems bent on following the Obama model of the Keystone Cops. But remember, the US is much bigger and can take more hits than Israel can. It only takes one big one or the many missiles stockpiled by hamas and hezbollah to bring that small country to a halt. So quit it with the Marx Bros. and try to get back to the early Israeli leadership and its resolve.

The Turkish PM must be Jewish, for he has tons of chutzpah!! So Israel MUST leave some disputed territories, but Turkey has no intention of vacating the Northern part of Cyprum which they have occuoied for 41 years!! BTW, there was never an Intifada or restistance from there for a simple reason. Israel allowed the Arabs to remain, build schools, universities, introduced labour laws and medical care. Turkey killed EVERY Greek who resisted, injured, maimed or chassed away everyone else. There is not ONE Greek left in the area, but they brought hundreds of thousands of farmers from the Mainland, plus tens of thousands of special forces to quell any sign of opposition from the Greeks on the other side of the fence. Therefore, Mr. Gul, please look in the mirror before giving moral advice!!!