Straight into the trap
The troops slid from helicopters into a violent crowd, which attacked them with sticks; It's no wonder they opened fire in self-defense.
By Amos HarelThe Israel Defense Forces had little trouble explaining the naval commando raid yesterday to the Israeli public. The troops slid from helicopters into a violent crowd, which attacked them with sticks. It's no wonder the troops opened fire in self-defense.
 |
A naval ship positions itself opposite the Marmara in preparation for the boarding. |
| Photo by: Eli Hershkowitz |
The situation in the international arena, though, is the diametric opposite. No matter how much effort it invests, Israel will never be able to explain to the world how nine civilians were killed, without a single death on our side - and the dead are citizens of the country that was until recently our best friend in the region. The consequences of this incident will necessitate a far-reaching investigation of the decision-making process and the execution.
Israeli spokesmen repeatedly stressed yesterday that the demonstrators went into a violent frenzy that endangered the soldiers' lives. This argument, however, should not detract attention from the question of why these things happened, and whether an alternative had been possible. Ultimately, Israel walked straight into the trap that the flotilla organizers set, and has found itself in a massive diplomatic mess. It remains unclear what Israel should do about the next aid ship, which is due to set sail for Gaza today or tomorrow.
One of the most telling images of the day, along with footage from the ships, was the expression of Navy Commander Major General Marom at the noon press conference. The many weeks the navy spent preparing to meet the flotilla, the advance praise it received for its professional preparations, all culminated in a resounding failure. We should be clear: If Israel's goal was to "contain" the flotilla and prevent it from triggering a major crisis, we failed utterly and completely, and in no way is this the soldiers' fault.
Before we address the army's part in the fiasco, we would need to meticulously investigate the political leadership's conduct. Israel's siege on Gaza began soon after Hamas' 2006 election victory, and intensified after Gilad Shalit was abducted and Hamas ousted Fatah from power a year later. The siege has had limited success at best. Hamas may be fairly isolated, but the weapon smuggling has continued, and the blockade has done nothing to advance Shalit's cause.
The blockade question
Another question concerns the enforcement of the blockade. The Olmert government had allowed aid ships to assist the Gazans. The current government blocked an aid ship a year ago, effectively and without casualties. The decision on this morning's operation was made unanimously by the seven-member security cabinet. Israel left itself having to decide, at the latest possible moment, between two unenviable alternatives: taking over the ships, or allowing the flotilla to pass, unimpeded and unexpected, into Gaza. The critical juncture may actually have been earlier: changing the fruitless siege policy, or taking less blatant steps against the flotilla, such as damaging their engines or physically blocking their path, without sending combat soldiers to board them.
As for the operation itself, the commandos did nothing wrong. They were vastly outnumbered, and apparently prepared only for a disturbance, with limited use of cold weapons. When they descended from their ropes onto the decks, they found themselves amid a violent mob. Sliding down a cable is done wearing asbestos gloves, which make it impossible to operate a weapon. Some soldiers were armed only with paintball rifles.
While they wrestled with the protesters, at least two pistols were snatched from them. The outnumbered commandos were at risk of having their comrades lynched, and opened fire. A Turkish policeman or soldier would not have shown any more restraint. The result, at any rate, was horrific: Civilians were killed, and the protesters threw a commando from the upper deck to lower deck. It's not just appalling footage, it's a national humiliation and a blow to Israeli deterrence. The question is why the soldiers were put into this situation in the first place.
The IDF had all the time in the world to prepare for the flotilla. The entire intelligence community had all the time it needed to follow the protesters' plans and preparation. Drones provided constant streaming videos of the ships, and it's safe to assume other means of tracing and sabotage were used: Signal jamming, signal tapping, possibly even live agents. And still, based on the commandos' testimonies yesterday, it's clear they were not prepared for what awaited them on the deck. The IDF underestimated the resistance the protesters would show, and possibly their numbers as well.
But neither should the intelligence community shoulder all of the blame. Everyone in the top brass, from the defense minister to the chief of staff and down, confirmed the plan. "We were arrogant and complacent," one officer told Haaretz. "We didn't anticipate the scale of the resistance and didn't conduct ourselves accordingly."
Moreover, the force lacked the element of surprise, as protesters knew an assault was imminent. We also know by this stage that a critical mass of soldiers did not board the Marmara early enough, and it may be that not enough troops were allocated to begin with. The end result remains the same: The commandos were not prepared to confront such a large, violent crowd.
The end result is bad
The choice of unit for the operation was criticized yesterday, as small-scale ego wrestling began between elite units and their commanders; the Shayetet's specialty is not crowds, but enemy combatants. But it seems the elite naval commando unit was chosen because of the challenge the IDF faced - taking control of a moving vessel, a feat considerably more difficult than it appears to be on TV.
Whatever way one looks at it, the end result is bad, especially for Israel. The repercussions go far beyond the question of which unit was sent on the mission. Ankara withdrew its ambassador from Tel Aviv, and it may well come to an end to relations; prospects of tourism and military cooperation don't appear particularly solid anymore. The Erdogan government is far from innocent, of course - it supported the flotilla, and has been inflaming the public against Israel in Turkey for a while.
Closer to home, persistent but unfounded rumors that Sheikh Ra'ad Salah had been killed on one of the ships could have started public unrest much like the infamous October 2000 riots. There does not appear to be a conflagration arising in the territories, as Palestinians in the West Bank remain critical of Israel but don't rush to confrontation.
Hamas is bound to use the entire affair for its needs, and to try and ease the siege. Europe has been ripe for such a move for a while, and it remains to be seen whether the Obama administration will try to pressure Netanyahu. Either way, the Israeli failure to address a provocation by Islamist activists and radical leftists is now a strategic one.
Why Facebook Connect?
Comment on Haaretz.com articles with your Facebook login, and share your thoughts on your own wall.
- Latest
- Most Viewed
- Most Rated
- Open all
This will only inflame Muslim sentiments around the world against the USA and Israel. This quagmire may isolate Israel further and may start a war in the middle east which may find covert Turkish support..........BAD NEWS FOR BIBI n GANG
You need not to explain anything to the world. Let AIPAC keep a tight grip on B...s of Mr. Barak.H.Obama. He will do the job.
Israel must tell the truth and no diplonatic groveling. The rest can go to hell or askTurkey for the explanation why it invages foreign terretory.The anti semetic anti Israel UN and EU will only believe what lies originate from yje islamic world which is controlled by the arab nations with the help of african beggers. the western world will do anything the arabs say as they wat cheap oil
that modern technology and media brings pictures and images instantly to people's homes. In other words, the USA cannot provide cover for Israel's atrocities with the same ease as in the past. It seems that the message did not get through into the thick skulls of Israel's leaders. There must be another way to send this message, and we'll see it in the coming weeks and months!
Peace is a fairytale. The Palestinians only have one desire: The complete destroy of the state of Isreal. (and in fact: all the jewish people) They have always rejected any kind of peaceful solution. The demonstations in Turkey after this events showed the real issue. They were just pro-Islamic and even anti-Semitism! That's were it is all about. It's one part of the islamic religious warfare. So was it a trap? definitely for sure. Just one of the provocations.
I don't think pirates have ever pleaded self-defense before.
Did´nt the murderers attack the ship in international waters? No wonder that this "country" has a crazy appearance when they are led by a Nutty Yahoo!!
This was a political decision from the start. Blaming the IDF for carrying out stupid orders when it was obvious that what had been ordered was an attack on NATO civilians. The order came from politicians who have no responsibly bone in their bodies, Thus far, the spin is that Israel rules the world's oceans and there is no right of free passage on the high seas if some Israeli politician has a stick up his butt. That is the logic of the Israeli politicians.
How can it be self defense to board a ship and open fire at the passengers? It is more fair to say that the crowd attacking the troops acted in self defense. Israel will have great difficulties changing the meaning of words their preferred way.
Make no mistake, Israel has done some pretty ugly things in the past (use of lethal force against stonethrowing children/youths over decades, use of white phosphorus during Operation "Cast Lead" etc.), but still, many befriended countries would never have thought, that Israel would be capable of commiting such a barbaric act as to attack a humanitarian aid convoy and murder some of its passengers. There was profound shock yesterday on the faces of Merkel, Kouchner, Hague, Ban-Ki moon etc..... THIS Israel will now be seen even by previously befriended Western nations as being capable of commiting (almost) any crime imaginable in order to further its crazy ideology ("expansive Zionism"). And that's not good news for any Israeli or Israel supporting Diaspora Jew on this planet.....
How about: We tried to act like Somali pirates, but without their professionalism.....
Isolating Israel seems just, but it will only serve as yet another excuse for Israel to impose its cruel policy on the Palestinians. The international community should start treating Israel as a normal state, subject to normal standards. By normal standards, what Israel is doing to the people in Gaza and the West Bank, is a crime against humanity. Hold israel accountable, and intervene if they don't comply. If Israel wants to be a civilized country, they'll have to start showing some civilization.
Can someone clear something up? I can't understand if a few statements in this article are sarcastic or serious. For example: "The Israel Defense Forces had little trouble explaining the naval commando raid yesterday to the Israeli public. The troops slid from helicopters into a violent crowd, which attacked them with sticks. It's no wonder the troops opened fire in self-defense." Is that sarcasm, as in a joke or is that a serious statement intended to show the truth of the matter? Thank you!
A women with her baby among peace activists, returned back Turkey and she reported 19 were killed and IDF commandos had a List at their hand and searching them and they executed killings according to this list however she said possibly there are still alive person from the list and IDF reports there are missing people which is implausible It is obviously activist refusing to reveal their IDS prevented full executing and killing of death list at IDF and now therefore IDF do not disclose anything but reports missing, later those missing will be killed and executed and then will be found death. So simple.
1. Call " provocation" 2. Start rumors that firearms were found on board. And never retract their statements. 3. Link Hamas or Iran to the humanitarian aid flotilla 4. Pull the oh-so-used " national security " card. Knowing specifically that those cargo contained no material susceptible to jeopardize NS 5. Claim self defense . Like the robber that sues homeowners that got shot... In fact , it looked rather as an act of piracy.
I DON'T AGREE WITH ALOT OF WHAT THIS ARTICLE SAYS....... but read it and realize how he says himself they could have avoided the whole thing... they sent a commandos that face enemy combatants to a bunch of civilians armed with STICKS... and they created a rumor about Islamist leader Ra'ed Salah being dead... and saying they're scared of a 3rd intifada.... because of it... hmm stop and think.... what do they want from us???? to start this 3rd intifada... so they have an excuse to erase us!!!! i hope we don't give them what they want.... everything they do is planned for.... and they have calculated every possibility.... and they definitely knew how many people are in it!
This article is meant as satire isn't it - I mean "attacked with sticks" ?
If any action were to be taken through the use of commando's, it should not have happened in international waters. They could have waited till the ship was just a few miles off Israeli waters. It was a reasonable distance out in sea. This was clearly an unprovoked attack on a ship in International Waters. And why would passengers or crew members on a ship not try and defend themselves or get aggressive if individuals are trying to forcibly board their vessel. The Israel' commandos were trespassing, hence it is not surprising, passengers and crew members felt obliged to show some resistance.
read and learn Any state, in a time of conflict, can impose an embargo, and while it cannot carry out embargo activities in the territorial waters of a third party, it can carry out embargo activities in international waters. This is international maritime law. Within this framework it is legal to detain a civilian vessel trying to break an embargo and if in the course of detaining the vessel, force is used against the forces carrying out the detention then that force has every right to act in self defense International laws allow to attack any ship trying to breach a blockade, even in international waters: San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea, 12 June 1994
read and learn Any state, in a time of conflict, can impose an embargo, and while it cannot carry out embargo activities in the territorial waters of a third party, it can carry out embargo activities in international waters. This is international maritime law. Within this framework it is legal to detain a civilian vessel trying to break an embargo and if in the course of detaining the vessel, force is used against the forces carrying out the detention then that force has every right to act in self defense International laws allow to attack any ship trying to breach a blockade, even in international waters: San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea, 12 June 1994
There is nothing to explain to the world. The world is in a mess nobody is going to listen .Turkey have a short memory plenty Kurdish blood on their hands .
"without a single death on our side - and the dead are citizens of the country that was until recently our best friend in the region." So you're not satisfied without Jewish deaths? You need to join your friends elsewhere, not in Israel. Maybe that country where coincidentally all the dead "civilians" hail from, maybe somewhere else. And describing the weapons the commandos faced as "sticks?" You should be ashamed.
This whole matter could have been avoided with the use of one word and the magic word is "bumbling". You see if the defense minister was given an options paper that said our "bumbling" military will try and board the vessels and you never know we might actually "bumble" through it ok. I don't think he would have authorised it. Or maybe it would say something like our as a result of our bumbling intelligence services have no idea whats going on on the boats, he may have at least paused to think before giving the ok. Or maybe its a case If the Israeli public was presented with the prospect a bumbling government that will do more damage to Israel than any Palestinian could hope to achieve, they would have paused to rethink how they cast their vote. Instead of "bumbling" however other word have gained to wide a usage 'crack', 'highly trained', heroic, moral. A mythology around our armed forces and our leaders that was originally designed as propoganda to dissuade the enemy is now only believed by us. So much so that instead of recognising our military, that our are as ordinary as any other, that they possess no special skill over and above any other western armed and equipped force, that they are not super human they are just men like any other trained professional. Maybe our leaders would stop asking them to do the stupid, maybe they would not think of force as the first and only answer to any issue, maybe. Or maybe they just keep bumbling away slowly but surely eroding the reputation and standing of Isreal, all for the wants of few truthful words.
According to White House, Somali Pirates attacking ships in international waters is ‘a terrorist act’ and ‘extraordinary danger’ to the region and democracy, while Israeli Armed Forces attacking white flagged ships in international waters only draws the statement ‘regretful for loss of life’. Once again violence and terrorism is being justified so long as it's done by sides carrying a recognized flag! Now imagine this flotilla being attacked by Iran or Saddam's Iraq while carrying humanitarian aid to regions and people oppressed by them. There wouldn't be two sides to the same stories then! This is terrorism, this is violence and it's inhumane!
This was a boarding in international waters. As a matter of law, therefore, it was piracy, which can properly be repelled by any means necessary. When a pirate -- like a burglar -- kills someone who seeks to repel him, it cannot be called self-defense, because the pirate's illegal act has created the need for violence. The so-called "self-defense" justification for the killings is simply absurd, and those who advance it make Israel look even worse than it already does.
This will be the end of current government's bullies. If your soldiers are dumb enough to dismiss international law, then you will have to pay for them.
I accuse the State of Israel of attacking Turkish territory at sea in international waters and this alone mounts to a war declaration against the sovereign Turkish nation. Besides, Israel purposely killed innocent Turkish nationals by a barbaric act of of piracy that mounts to a declared war. There is no way that Turkey WILL and MUST act accordingly in terms of international rules.
The anti-Semites are out in force. You guys walked into an Islamofascist trap, and there's no way to step back out of it. I'm sure Obama will soon add his voice to his peers on the Left and within Islam; but make no mistake, most Americans remain committed to Israel. The anti-Semites posting here unfortunately do represent a dark and growing force in the world, but their numbers are small.
Wish the Israeli Navy had sunk the ships and let all the bastards drown. Especially the Turks.
that was meant to deter the next flotilla and the next wave of solidarity with the people of Gaza , this was a well planed murder in the same venue as killing the separation wall protesters down to attacking the ship on the high seas in order to circumvent and shield the soldiers and the operation planners from legal prosecution for the crimes they intended to commit.
...who were thrust into a dangerous situation by a brutal, violent, racist political leadership. The IDF is not well served by demands to provide military "solutions" for problems caused by the civilian government's folly. Nor is the IDF well served by apologists for that government like Mr. Harel, who highlights an "Israeli failure to address a provocation by Islamist activists and radical leftists" that pales beside the Israeli failure to honor the basic human rights of its Palestinian neighbors. As long as such denial remains widespread, the IDF is going to keep getting dragged into disasters like this one.
"No matter how much effort it invests, Israel will never be able to explain to the world how nine civilians were killed, without a single death on our side" I see, so all this violence against the troops was not enough ? Ridiculous. You preferred more soldiers killed, so that it is easier to explain to whom? What's wrong with you ? Seriously...
give the guy a break. he believes that microbes are more entitled to live than any Palestinian or anyone who supports him.
To all the "experts": before you make stupid claims, reas the San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea, 12 June 1994. Pay particular attention to paragraph 67: "67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they: (a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture; (b) engage in belligerent acts on behalf of the enemy; (c) act as auxiliaries to the enemy s armed forces; (d) are incorporated into or assist the enemy s intelligence system; (e) sail under convoy of enemy warships or military aircraft; or (f) otherwise make an effective contribution to the enemy s military action, e.g., by carrying military materials, and it is not feasible for the attacking forces to first place passengers and crew in a place of safety. Unless circumstances do not permit, they are to be given a warning, so that they can re-route, off-load, or take other precautions." The situation met these criteria and the IDF did all it was required by law to do and more. Before you make comments about international law, do your homework and learn the subject you quote so freely (and erroneously).
In article first paragraph is..... The troops slid from helicopters into a violent crowd, which attacked them with sticks and troops opened fire!,,, why they entrd into ship, ship was an international waters ? Article said , soldier used Limited number of cold weapons,, really ?? cold weapons killed 20 people at a time ? In 2006 Hezbolla used cold weapons ? owing to that cold weapons only 48 israeli soldier were killed in 33 days than hezbolla weapons were very cold do u agree ?? You Zionists are terrorist Article said all are civilians and israels friend country! ... Lool and See Israelis agrration to the friend how do they treat enemies just Think ??? Article said... Israel's siege on Gaza began soon after Hamas' 2006 election victory, and intensified after Gilad Shalit was abducted and Hamas ousted Fatah from power a year later! Amazing why israel seige Gaza and attack by bombs,, why are israel influence people to leave hamas alone ? Is Hamas influence Israelis to leave Natan ? Only Gilad arrest,, more than 10000 palistanians are aducted by israelis ?? and israel attack Gaza, Now in ship terror, more than 500 people are so becz of Gilad gaza Attacked than its responsibilty of all countries to attack israel !!!!
If the murder of 10 activists wasn't enough of an atrocity, Israelis now rub salt in the wound by blaming the victims! Typical. Good luck with your "hasbara" this time Israel. The world watches in disgust.
This was NOT a failure but a VICTORY! Bravo to the soldiers! We are proud of them!
Turkey should be cesured by the UN for permitting its Flag to be used by vessels intent on criminal acts. All Countries have the right to board ships in its waters & GAZA is no Country...it is all still Israel! If any group intended to send aid to the Kurds or Armenians ...what Country would be the first to stop them...even if they had to enter into Iraq???? Turkey is no model for self restraint!! The IDF did the right thing...& sent a message for all those that wish her harm!!!
The Israeli commando were the attackers. Those being attacked were defending themselves against an act of piracy on the high seas. Israel should have waited until these ships came within their 20 mile exclusion zone. As it happens Israel is guilty of a criminal act and the soldiers and commanders involved could be charged with murder.
It looks to me like Turkey has decided to challenge Iran for chief champion of the Palestinians and is thus challenging for dominance in the region. This is another step away from secular govt there and away from Europe, which really doesn't want them. I suspect the "alliance" with Israel is over, as well as diplomatic relations. This turn has, as we know, been brewing for some time with the radical foreign ministry playing right into their hands.
Israel is a rogue state and america continues to pay the price of this arrogance.
I hope that the IDF is more prepared for the next ship trying to enter Gaza. Gilad Shalit needs to be home with his family and the rockets must stop. Why isn't the world up in arms that a young man was abducted from Israel and has no contact with anyone. not even the Red Cross
Because your friends wanted to kill them,that's why.If you watch the footage carefully,you'll see IDF soldiers "armed" with paintball guns while facing real murderers who are lynching other soldiers and are trying to kill them with metal poles. Ask your murderous friends why they did it if their lives were never threatened.Even if they outnumbered the soldiers,they never tried to arrest them,they just wanted to kill them.WHY?Why Johnboy? Show me the law permitting to kill someone rather then arrest him.Did they act according to international law?You tell me.
Israel's greatest threat isn't Hamas, it's Netanyahu. Boarding the ships in International waters was utterly idiotic and leaves the Israeli government open to charges of piracy. Even if the ships had sailed onto the beaches of Gaza they wouldn't have been able to unload without Israeli permission. Way to go, Bibi, shoot yourself in the foot again.
Isreal continue to dig further....
Israel continues to march itself to the precipice. What more stubborn resistance to a peace deal with the Palestinians will the government come up with? All the high tech war fighting equipment does not overcome the fact that Israeli soldiers and Palestinian activists are still made out of flesh and blood. In any other parliamentary country, this debacle would cause the government to fall--don't expect it to happen here. Israel still sees this as a public relations problem, not a governance problem.
So it's completely acceptable to use live fire on people wielding sticks? Do you see nothing outrageous in this claim? And do you see nothing wrong with violently boarding a ship in international waters? Has Israel really moved so far from accepted standards of decency? If yes, Israel is truly lost.
The operation took a lot longer than 30 second videos played by either side. We need to see all teh videos to really determine what happened. There needs to be an independent investigation.
Although Israel acted morally and legally I think it acted poorly from a tactical sense. Israel put it soldiers in danger who were then forced to respond with lethal force. If the soldiers had been equipped with padded, riot armor, riot shields batons and had commandos as support this would have been a very different scenario.
You should have begun this story with: The troops slid from helicopters into a violent crowd in international waters, it's no wonder they were set upon with sticks.
I think that with the next ship, they should fire a shot across the bow, if it doesn't stop, hole it at the waterline so that it sinks. MAKE NO MISTAKE, these people are not interested in peace, unless it means death for Israelis. HOLD THE LINE ISRAEL!!!
according to international laws, are soldiers of any country allowed to storm a ship in international waters? Because if they are not, it's a piracy act and the people on board could even be entitled to shoot (and they did'nt) the intruders, and the "violent reaction" doesn't justify in any way the shooting of civilians. On the contrary if they are entitled according to internationa laws, it's different, it's a sort of self defence though it seems an excess of self defence.
The difference between humans and animasl is our humanity , so , show some , you might make some friends . Then, you must continue to show your humanity and that way you will keep your friends.
If things went bad on the ships, why didn't the IDF call off the operation? Why not retreat and come back later better prepared? Why use comandos vs civilians instead of riot police?
Israel attacked unarmed ships in international waters well outside Israels proclaimed 20 mile exclusion zone. This is a terrorist attack and you want us to believe Israel had a right to defend against people on the boats resisting piracy? Israel had no right to be there in the first place.
I used to think the most important lesson to be learned was to not bring a knife to a gun fight, but know i know the more important lesson to be learned is to never bring a gun to a stick fight.
There goes the myth of smart Jews! There was never any need to board those ships. Is Netanyahu working for Hamas and Iran? This one is impossible to defend. Better get rid of this incompetent government fast!!!
Israel should have to wait till the World Cup to do this. Support 100% , but disagree with the timming
"No matter how much effort it invests, Israel will never be able to explain to the world how nine civilians were killed, without a single death on our side" So, Mr. Smart, how would you stop dozens of people with knives and metal poles coming for you to kill you? Let's add that you had a gun. So ridiculous. You speak like someone who would stay still until death arrived. You wouldn't, no one wouldn't. If I were attacked by dozens of potential killers, be it on my home, on international waters or on the moon, I'd fire to save me. They aborded illegaly on international waters. They're wrong. But that doesn't mean the "pacific" people have the right to kill Israelians.
This just about sums it up. Forwarding to everyone I know!
Regardless of the fact a stupid order may have been issued to storm the vessel by night, and regrdless of the fact the soldiers were brutalized, lynched, clubbed, beaten and stabbed, and obviously had to defend themselves, the world is NOT REACTING to this, but expressing, apropos this, its hatred towards Israel. Even if it is clear that The commandos acted in last resort self-defense, the mob rationale has already decided what the "truth" is. It is obsessed with hating Israel, another form of anti-Semitism.
Regardless of the fact a stupid order may have been issued to storm the vessel by night, and regrdless of the fact the soldiers were brutalized, lynched, clubbed, beaten and stabbed, and obviously had to defend themselves, the world is NOT REACTING to this, but expressing, apropos this, its hatred towards Israel. Even if it is clear that The commandos acted in last resort self-defense, the mob rationale has already decided what the "truth" is. It is obsessed with hating Israel, another form of anti-Semitism.
the flotilla ships should be hit and sank into the deep sea, because of: --- the Gazzan people were behind the oil spillage in Mexico Gulf --- the gazzan people were behind the Iran nucler programme --- the gazzan people were behind the south Korean war ship attack --- the gazzan people were behind the climate changing ---The gazzan people were behind the ,,, what else? well done, israeli marine forces, well done..... the more you kill the more extreamests would arise and its not hard to understand that your end is started
Shame on Israel. When will israel stop this mad attack on innocent people. World opinion is turning against Israel.
No sane person would agree that this was a good idea on any count. The protesters, if they did use violence are idiots but the response by the invaders was totally disproportionate and makes a mockery of the discipline and concept of force projection by Israel taking it to the level of a mafia shootout. What a disgrace and Israel loses more friends as a result. Whoever made this decision should be publicly flogged. Whwen will Israel learn that suppression and oppression will never work. You would think they of all people would have an insight into this.
Poor Israel...you are in wrong hands..and you are in a wrong way..
amos, you write junk. if i am aboard a ship IN INTERNATIONAL WATERS and armed men board my ship, whatever I do is self-defense. what the attacker does is not self defense, it is more akin to piracy. had the incident happened in israel's waters it would be somewhat different. israel's arrogant dismissal of international law as something only others should be bound by is going to cost so much more than that brief moment of joy over 'having shown those terrorists' was worth...
One has to think of a story in Nevi'im, Joshua 9, no one thought to ask G-D. It appears, in this current fiasco, same senario, it's highly unlikely anyone on either side bothered to ask advise from G-D, and similiar results. Maybe some day we will learn, meanwhile, more disasters like this one are sure to follow.
What do you want expalin? please, the israeli midia is guilty 100% in their opinions that made all people in the world stay against Israel. MAKE GOOD MIDIA. HASBARÁ! THE ISRAELI TALKS VERY MUCH! EXPLAIN TOO MUCH! look to those people: they seemed activists? I don't think so. and the brazilian is AMERICAN , please .
Israel knew that the flotilla is coming for weeks. Is this the best solution they could come up with? And why in international waters? Jumping over a ship in international water is what pirates do. If this happen in Israeli waters it would have been a different story. Left the embargo. Left the embargo once and for all.
Nowhere in the article did you mention that the flotilla was attacked in international waters. Isn't this fact important in determining who was the aggressor? This is also clearly a violation of international law which unfortunately the Israeli government has no concept of.
all we are getting is the IDF position, yet there are at least 10 dead aid convoy members, and yet we know the IDF lies and lies and lies, Amos believes all the lies all the time, I guess he has to cling to some semblance of sanity
If pirates invade a ship on international waters do you expect to be welcomed aboard? Sticks and knives against machine guns. very proportional...
Israel just killed nine (or more) persons who were mainly attempting to deliver aid. I would say it's a bit worse for them than for Israel. The world condemnation that Israel is receiving right now is totally just. ANY civilized country could have found a better solution than killing unarmed civilians in international waters. Israel calls Hamas a terrorist organization for this and yet Israel's civilian kill rate vastly exceeds that of Hamas.
You say, "Whatever way one looks at it, the end result is bad, especially for Israel." I'd say the end result was especially bad for those injured and killed, and for the Gazan's who will continue to suffered great depravation at Israel's hands. Per usual, Israel is unconcerned about the lives and rights of others.
Arrogant and complacent describes not only the attitude of the IDF, but also of the Israeli government. Israel appears to think it can be overbearing, rude and violent towards its friends like the USA and (reluctant) allies like Turkey with impunity. Its real enemies meanwhile rub their hands with glee as Israel makes their case for them!
Did America ever apologize to the world for the killing of men, women and children at Waco? No. If the United States can just murder civilians like that, then what is the big deal with the killing of 9 civilians. Israel doesn't owe anyone an explanation or apology to anyone. especially someone like Barack Obama who supported Raila Odinga.
More like metal pipes, knives, explosive cocktails and handguns. Your constant belittling of the situation does nothing for your reputation.
not the army or the politicians, but what israel itself has become.... an arrogant, greedy , racist entity which cannot think clearly, and does not understand what concequences its actions will result in. the blame can also be attributed to the blind support given to it by the us whatever happened to the famed jewish wisdom
I saw the "sticks" and how they were used. Is this a deliberately cruel understatement or not?
The fact seems to be that this occurred in waters 70 miles from the coast -- international waters -- and so is nothing more than an act of piracy. There was no violence, not even a threat, before IDF landed on the ship. Violence against IDF? OF COURSE !!! Don't you have a right to defend yourself if a stranger intrudes into your home, your backyard? This is just another DIPLOMATIC BLUNDER on the part of the Netanyahu-Lieberman regime. When are you going to get rid of these people? They do more harm to Israel than Hamas and Hezbollah combined, because they harm Israel where it counts: in world opinion.
Let alone tried in any meaningful way to explain them to anyone else. You do what you do, and you seem to the rest of the world to be pretty damned smug and self contented in what you do. Please don't bore us with a sham of a self critique or internal investigation. Just continue being true to yourselves, and shameless in showing the rest of us who you really are....a bunch of victimholics who hate the rest of the world, and cry antisemitism anytime someone tries to object to your policies. I used to Margaret Thatcher was a real ass until Netanyahu came into his own. But you can't blame Bibi...the world is full of asses. In the end, you have to blame the Israeli electorate for putting this turd into office.
FORGET DROPPING ANY COMMANDOS.. just SINK the SHIPS ... & CALL the SHARKS... Watching those terrorists throw that dear Israeli Commando over the ship's side was ABSOLUTELY SICKENING...shows what ISRAEL IS DEALING WITH.... Those TERRORISTS DESERVED EXACTLY WHAT THEY GOT ... INTENDING TO HARM OTHERS ... HATE CRIME 101 BUT GOD TURNED THEIR EVIL PLAN BACK ON THEMSELF... WATCH WHAT YOU DO TO GOD'S CHOSEN PEOPLE - WORLD. I HAVE MET SOME oF THOSE ISRAELI COMMANDOS ... THEY ARE VERY DESCENT.. PEOPLE. That was a PATHETIC... BARBARIC... ASSAULT AGAINST ISRAEL.. Preventable IF those ' 'HUMANITARIAN- TERRORIST SYMPATHIZERS' had CO-OPERATED & just gone to ASHDOD.. ALL TERRORISTS MAKE me SICK. ISRAEL HAS to PROTECT HER CITIZENS FROM VISCIOUS, RABID VIPERS LIKE THESE TERRORISTS... THE WORLD SHOULD HAVE AN INQUIRY INTO ITSELF... IT'S OWN NEGLIGENCE in NOT helping ISRAEL DETER & STOP these RADICALS... INSTEAD THEY SUPPORT IT & SIT BY IN THEIR COMFY CHAIRS WHILE ISRAEL TRIES TO FIGHT TERRORISM ALL BY HERSELF... LAZY JERKS ! They say nothing when any other nations defend itself.. but when Israel does..it's iNTERNATIONAL FEEDING FRENZY.... PATHETIC LEADERSHIP.. UN ...EU... SERVING SATAN-ANTI-CHRIST instead of FATHER GOD- MESSIAH YESHUA-JESUS CHRIST THESE NATION LEADERS ALL MAKE ME SICK ...
YOU ARE STUPID, These people "HATE JEWS" and YOU can not SEE it .....THINK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why is everyone blaming Israel? Those flotilla goons came looking for trouble and they found it. Case closed!
The trap is one that Israel set for itself when it decided that it was above international law. It is called "arrogance." G-d sees. G-d is not fooled by IDF press releases. G-d will judge this act. And G-d is surely weeping for His people, gone so far astray.
I will tell you how, with the lies claiming it was for security reasons because there could have been "TERRORIST" on the ships just like all previous excuses. But the world knows Israel is a crime, a bunch of murderers who kill innocent peole with humanitarian aids for another people
Yes...Poor, vulnerable defenseless commandos bearing firearms should always open fire on untrained bloodthirsty civilians armed with sticks. Sounds fair to me. Israel is losing its last friends in the wider world.
Well, the critical situation will take place when the Rachel Corrie ship arrives later today. and If the status quo persists, how is Israel going to react to the future waves of ships to Gaza? repeat the fiasco? Kill more people? let the ships pass through? either way, Israel has committed a strategic blunder.
from now on israel needs to get tough on invaders. that means no warnings. you approach israeli controlled areas you will be killed without warning. then there will be no more invasions. no help just sinking and killing of everyone. no exceptions
The commandos said they faced a hostile crowed. Wasn't that to be expected ? Poor planning and excecution. However, world opinion is always against Israel. Wait a few months and this event will be forgotten. Israel has to be strong and show its strength, but intelligently. Go Israel, go !!
I know that from a PR viewpoint, Israel does not get a fair shake no matter what. That said, articles I have read talk about the incident taking place in international waters. Will they argue that this meets the definition of Piracy, like the Somali Pirates? In 1962, during the Cuban Missile Crisis, President Kennedy Instituted a blockade against Cuba. He waited until the Russian ships were at the edge of the blockade zone -- and they turned back. Now these guys in the Gaza Flotilla would not have turned back so maybe no benefit to wait until they reach the limit imposed by Israeli Navy.
I do believe that Israel going to lose soon ! We Americans and Europeans have been giving you chances , result was killing of innocents ! No wonder Iran going Nuclear , Clearing !
Erdogan will use it to win Islamist votes, win favor with the arab street and Iran. Business with Israel will go on as usual; however, Israel may decide to bring up the Armenian genocide bill again.
Hmm no mention of international waters and the lack of legal basis for the blockades. The morons that run your government have really stuffed it this time.
Let us think this over just for a second, shall we? Israel intercepted a boat in INTERNATIONAL waters - most contries would consider this an act/declaration of war.. or piracy, which is the case, at the very least -, and Israeli soldiers boarded it instead of, say, escorting it safely away. And they hit the soldiers with (gasp) sticks (we're still waiting on the survivors' account) and you open FIRE? And you think it's REASONABLE? So, if I throw a rock at you, you will respond with what-- a tank? By the way, why send heavily armed troops to meet pacifists in the first place? Who ordered this? Who sentenced these people to death?
Indepth and missing from many sources Thank you for writing
shame on you a real zionist would never contemplate such atrocity. study your religion!
The antipathy to Israel reached its peak. The question here is not the right to defend itself, here we have a repugnant authoritarian act involving human rights activists bringing humanitarian aid to a people who live miserably in open-air prison. All mantras used to justify atrocities, do not work here.
The difference is that the world is now more aware and does not fall for Israeli lies, thank god for the internet.
Israel had no alternative.The "humanitarian aid" could be disguizing loads of arms and ammo.The "peaceful activists" could be smugling al-quaida terrorists.The flotilla had to be stoped.The only mistake Israel made was to rappel troops armed with paintball guns,instead of Uzis...The ususal leftwing moslem bvrownosers will bark and owl anyways...SCREW THEM...
The antipathy to Israel reached its peak. The question here is not the right to defend itself, here we have a repugnant authoritarian act involving human rights activists bringing humanitarian aid to a people who live miserably in open-air prison. All mantras used to justify atrocities, do not work here.
A track record remains intact.. Congrats Israel.
we condemn israel navy brutality against humanitarian activist , we as part of international community support humanitarian aid to gaza. what IDF and israel navy have done are embarrassing act, coward and unmoral at all. The UN must impose a punishment for gross human rights violations by Israel as found by goldstone's report
Shayetet's commanders, like Israel's political commanders, suffer from the sin of pride. They think just the site of the IDF will cause these hippies to drop to the floor and beg for mercy. Just as the siege of Gaza itself has only made Hamas stronger, so to will this travesty only make opposition to Israel (especially in Europe).
All would be moot if Israel would just lift the siege!
Then it is fair to say that Somali pirates do nothing wrong when they forcefully board boats in international water. Please, spare us the sympathy for these people whom are called "commandos." They are terrorists of the sea and should be treated as such.
IDF's recent attack on the international aid’s flotilla for Gazans on the international waters proves only one thing: Israels’ political leadership in unable to accept or understand the simple truth that any attack on the opponents of Israel’s violent behavior in Gaza and West Bank will only speed up Israel’s desintegration and failure as a state. Why? US support will end sometime soon (and most certainly within the next 10- 20 years) with the end of the US domination as the only economic and military power, when other players like China and India will join forces with others, and will force Israel to surrender its dominant role in the region. This is simply unavoidable. And now Israel is becoming a threat to the US national security. Everyone who closely watches what is happening around the globe knows that already. Accusations of antisemitism would no longer help. Israel should be preapared to seriously consider one state (not two state) solution and integration of both (Jewish and Arab) ethnicities into a democratic state. The name of the state should be negotiated with all parties involved without preconditions and name calling. This no longer about Israel but also about world peace.
Israel could always be honest and simply explain that they are trying to commit genocide by starving the Palestinians to death - it far more politically acceptable than simply killing them all with bombs and bullets.
im the biggest supporter of Israel in the world. I live the US, but my daugther is a soldier in the IDF. Here, the army really messed up. Heads must roll, and big ones, like officers, like several. not only deaths of aid workers, ok, with knives, but handing effective weapons of mass propoganda destruction to all Israel's detractors and enemies. The IDF looks so bad right now. not to mention how awful 10 dead, and their families. i mean, was this the IDF or moldavia?
Appalling! Commandos attack a ship on the high seas, and when the occupants resist and attack (this is called self defense) the attackers, you claim this brutality justifies lethal response. This is so wrong footed it makes me wonder who is in charge. As a jew, a zionist, and one who cares about the future of Israel this fiasco makes me feel shame.
The fact seems to be that this occurred in waters 70 miles from the coast -- international waters -- and so is nothing more than an act of piracy. There was no violence, not even a threat, before IDF landed on the ship. Violence against IDF? OF COURSE !!! Don't you have a right to defend yourself if a stranger intrudes into your home, your backyard? This is just another DIPLOMATIC BLUNDER on the part of the Netanyahu-Lieberman regime. When are you going to get rid of these people? They do more harm to Israel than Hamas and Hezbollah combined, because they harm Israel where it counts: in world opinion.
The fact seems to be that this occurred in waters 70 miles from the coast -- international waters -- and so is nothing more than an act of piracy. There was no violence, not even a threat, before IDF landed on the ship. Violence against IDF? OF COURSE !!! Don't you have a right to defend yourself if a stranger intrudes into your home, your backyard? This is just another DIPLOMATIC BLUNDER on the part of the Netanyahu-Lieberman regime. When are you going to get rid of these people? They do more harm to Israel than Hamas and Hezbollah combined, because they harm Israel where it counts: in world opinion.
The criminals on the ship attacked with deadly force against the IDF. Anyone who attacks the IDF knows that you will lose your life. IDF and Israel did nothing wrong. There is plenty of aid going to Gaza so this was not about aid, it was about provocation. Well if you kick a snake don't cry when he bites you. This is all a lot of BS and as for Turkey, they are not our friend and we should remove our ambassador from there until they change their attitude. This is all a lot of nothing. I remember when Israel used to defend itself no matter what the UN said, we should close our ears and go backs to those days. The message from the IDF is... don't F&%*K with us. Can you hear that loud and clear?
A good article (might dispute some of the "facts" which always seems to change (in both directions) whenever there are reports on THIS conflict) which should cause some thought amongst Israel's current leadership. I wonder if cobbled together coalitions produce good governments. Coupled with the seemingly endless creation and dissolution of political parties in Israel (where every politician and military officer seems to think he/she has the answer to the country's problems and creates - how very Arab is that!!), Israelis now seem to have a pretty feeble minded bunch in charge. Although I hate seeing the right in power in Israel, surely there must be more intelligent people available to run the country. Are Lieberman and Netanyahu the only ones available?
Why does Israel continue to act in such a barbaric manner? You have many natural friends, like me, in the wider world but you continue to act as if everybody who has a reasonable, constructive worry about the Palestinians is a crypto terrorist. You are sowing the seeds of a whirlwind; and I fear you will drag us all down with you. Shame on you and your violent short-sightedness. I fear we will all pay the price for it.
Lie as they have been trained to....
Apart from being really bad your commandos had already killed 2 by the time they landed, very badly, almost comically. The people on the deck were very angry. We have the video. All hail moden tech!
Yes, a blockade of Israel. If Israel can starve a million innocent people then no logic says the same can't be done to them. Perhaps Israel has no right to exist. Look back over the decades, it casts a giant shadow of darkness and brings suffering to the innocent. A world without an Israel would indeed be a better place.
Wow: You are just 1 step from calling for “blockade” of all Jews. How about we guillotine all Irish and American priests for child abuse? How about all Turks for Armenia, all Cambodians for Pol Pot, all Visigoths and their ancestors for Rome, all Italians for Rome’s sack of Greece and so on. Best you stop throwing stones before you confront a boulder.
Do people like yourself believe what you write or do you write these things to incite hatred against Israel by spreading lies?
AGREED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
its upto the israelis to realise what they have become , and change, and live in peace... however if they cant do that , then i guess the workld without israel is the way
Ain't gonna' happen, Mustafa. Americans like me and my neighbors will make sure of it.
"A world without an Israel would indeed be a better place." You must be a delightful chap.
There wasn't an Israel in 1914,1940,1860, etc. and the world wasn't a better place. But let's not allow facts to intervene with your hatred for the Jews,yea?
There wasn't an Israel in 1914,1940,1860, etc. and the world wasn't a better place. But let's not allow facts to intervene with your hatred for the Jews,yea?
Nice analysis but you forget the last detail: when this happens in international waters, the ship is under Turkish jurisdiction and the soldiers essentially made murders that will be punished in Turkey.
Israel acted with total legality against the terrorist flotilla.
Turkey was our ally only some months back. After this, they scream for our blood. Just as we would had they been the pirates and a boatload of jews the prey. How long will we survive now that ALL of our neighbors hate us?
He pointed out that Israel is now at the point that apartheid South Africa was in the 1970s i.e. it knows it is becoming a pariah state, but it thinks that this can be fixed by more propaganda. No, because that merely treats the symptom, not the cause i.e. your inhuman treatment of the Palestinians, and your insistence that they be forever your serfs, and you can forever lord over them as their masters. Get a clue, Amos, fer' cryin' out loud..... this is not about wether the IDF could have done this differently, but about WHY THE IDF HAS TO DO THIS AT ALL.
You obviously don't live in Israel and have to be subjected to rockets and mortors every week. No blockade and Iran will send more sophisicated rockets. One million Arabs live in Israel with the same rights as I have. Hamas is illtreating the Palestinians not Israel.
Once again the IDF shows how incompetent they are. Air assault sliding down ropes, I guess it would make good video if it hadn't gone wrong, as it had to. When will they learn. Two years ago Willie Pete, now this. A very sad day.
The real question here is when the Israeli electorate decides to junk religious parties and Likud. Those folks (the right wing) are so out of touch and so not interested in the Jewish people as a whole it's not even funny.
Inside the twelve mile limit, Israel as the occupying power would have been within its rights to intercept the flotilla, outside of it however, it was an act of piracy on the high seas. The passengers were well within their rights to repel borders and no legal action against them is admissible in any honest court. There is no defence of self defence available to the marines because it was an act of piracy to begin with.
best comment ever about the legal aspect of the incident. Israel acted like Somali pirates.
Israel was within it's rights per international law. According to the San Remo Manual that governs international humanitarian law, it is permissible under rule 67(a) to attack neutral vessels on the high seas when the vessels “are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they ... See Moreintentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or ... See Moreintentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture.” San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea 1994 Prepared by International Lawyers and Naval Experts. Convened by the International Institute of Humanitarian Law. Adopted in June 1994.
As a pedant I must take issue with those who say that Israel’s attack was illegal. Were the British forays in mid ocean illegal when they sank the Bismarck or the Graf Spree. Was Germany’s attack on the Luisitania illegal? Doubtful, the US was supplying a nation that Germany was at war with. I am not surprised that lawyers not versed in either maritime or International law get it all wrong. It’s what lawyers do. Maybe if someone was paying them $500 an hour they would have incentive to examine what they blurt out without knowledge. I digress, the issue is not whether this stupid engagement was legal, it was. Being stupid and falling into such an obvious trap is what should be illegal. Netanyahu and his staff of bigots must be on Hamas’ payroll. They certainly don’t do Israel any good. If Israel is to survive this incompetent, bullying group has got to go.
As a pedant I must take issue with those who say that Israel’s attack was illegal. Were the British forays in mid ocean illegal when they sank the Bismarck or the Graf Spree. Was Germany’s attack on the Luisitania illegal? Doubtful, the US was supplying a nation that Germany was at war with. I am not surprised that lawyers not versed in either maritime or International law get it all wrong. It’s what lawyers do. Maybe if someone was paying them $500 an hour they would have incentive to examine what they blurt out without knowledge. I digress, the issue is not whether this stupid engagement was legal, it was. Being stupid and falling into such an obvious trap is what should be illegal. Netanyahu and his staff of bigots must be on Hamas’ payroll. They certainly don’t do Israel any good. If Israel is to survive this incompetent, bullying group has got to go.
It is getting beyond pathetic: the Israeli govt acts like a Somali warlord by ordering the IDF to seize a ship on the high seas like a bunch of Somali pirates and THEN claim that (a) the Israeli govt is the innocent party and (b) the soldiers who stormed the ships are the victims! Israel has simply lost the plot, and big time.
Only an NGO can commit piracy. This was war against Turkey.
Israel will do as it has become accustomed to doing. It will lie to itself, believe itself, and then lie to the world. For many years the world could far better trust the word of Israel than any of it's antagonists. The antagonists have not become more truthful, rather Israel has sunk to their level of honesty. Both sides talk to themselves and then talk back to themselves until their big lies become believed by themselves is no one else. There were a myriad of options open to Israel but ONLY brute force could appease the egos and desires of Netanyahu, Lieberman and Barak. They were determined that Israel would 'solve' the problem with military force and so they managed to turn a public relations problem into a public relations disaster. IF they are still in control of the nation a week from now the world will see Israel as incorrigible. A rogue nuclear state like North Korea which engages in mindless mayhem and murder at sea for the ego-thrills and political gain of it's masters. Netanyahu, Lieberman and Barak are nothing any decent nation would choose and ONLY Israel may save itself from them. Israel could have maintained it's status as the Legal Occupying Power with it's blockade of Gaza unbroken without defaming itself. That was not the choice of Israel's ruling junta.
I'm sure that having public opinion of Israel in the crapper is the end goal so that hamas and other middle eastern nations can carry on with the destruction of Israel. good luck in all you fail to do.
the liar or the liee?
Turkey's AKP Gov't launched this attack on Israel. Turkey should accept responsiblity. Israel should sever ties with this Hamas proxy government and declare Turkey an enemy nation and close the Embassy.
Is it an attack? Is it what an enemy does? Is it the reason to kill civillians?..This is how Isreal gets lonely in the world. You have to understand this.
Tell that to the people from 40 countries that took part in the flotilla. There were previous humanitarian missions. There will be more, many more, until the illegal, immoral Israeli siege is lifted.
Since when are boatloads of humanitarian supplies and "attack on Israel". Sorry, but your logic that this was a Turkish attack on Israel does not appear to have any basis in reality.
"Israel will do as it has become accustomed to doing. It will lie to itself, believe itself, and then lie to the world." M.L.
It will be your only choice if you go on believing yourselves and never try to understand what international law is about.
The fact that this massacre has taken place in international waters in defiance of international maritime law and the fact that this was blatant piracy in the fashion of Somalian outlaws in the Indian ocean is excellently omitted from the article, whereby the entire context is lost to the readers. This is such a mundane trick in the Israeli communication arsenal, a continuation of the habit of omitting the fact of Israeli occupation of Palestine in all news. The article is not discussing whether this "operation" was in principle just, which is the core of the matter, but rather who fucked it up a la clumsy bandits at a crime farce. ps. Take a good look at the weapons cache found aboard, discussed by the Israeli representative at UN Security Council. See the kitchen knives and screwdrivers proudly displayed by the IDF at their tweet site. And then compare it with the capacity of the commando units. I wish it could be ridiculous. But the basic flaw of reason is too deep on the Israeli government to laugh.
San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea, 12 June 1994, paragraph 67: "Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they: (a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture." Not international piracy, but an act of self defense.
Until there is a real peace deal, this kind of terrible event will continue to occur. Unfortunately, Israelis and Americans focus only on the events, not on the bigger problem. The situation between Israel and Palestine is not tenable, so untenable things will repeat over and over. Each time, they will be different yet always the same -- a series of explosive events where lives are lost and hostility increased. The current situation cannot continue. A peace deal is the only answer.
the writer says "The troops slid from helicopters into a violent crowd, which attacked them with sticks. It's no wonder the troops opened fire in self-defense." Its not wonder you are such a mess! When Israel starts to think about why its armed forces respond to sticks (or stones) with guns (or tanks) it will begin to see how normal people see things.
different matter, as it is when they throw stones or pour oil on the ground around the troops and threaten to light it.
They used pellet guns first. after seeing soilders thrown from the top area of the boat to the second level ,and having ther weapons pulled from them. they had no recoarse but to use there pistols. They should not of been sent in the first place, but they took the right action. Mayby next time stun granades
The ship was in international waters. The ship was headed to Gaza, not Israel. [Gaza is not part of Israel and its occupants are not given a vote in Israeli elections.] Israel did not, therefore, stop the ship to protect its sovereignty over Israel. It stopped the ship in order to further a siege of another people. The ship carried humanitarian aid for the reconstruction for people whose homes had infrastructure had been destroyed by Israel in the war on Gaza. [Israeli officials agreed to allow humanitarian aid carried by the ships on the condition that it went through the proper channels. But the rules Israel sets for those proper channels prohibits the importation of the reconstruction materials delivered by the boats. The boarding of such a ship in international water is the act of aggression and violence. It is the people on the ship who engaged in legitimate acts of self defense.
Doing the attack operation in international waters, Israel should have wait until the flotilla entered Gaza waters and then proceed to stop then ships
yea couldn't agree more ..Israel did what it's supposed to be done-the pb though is that the whole things happened in international waters
Does anyone know how to use facts instead of insults
wrong team, wrong time. big mess.
It wanted to stop the ship and deprive the flotilla of any PR/political gains. Hence the aggressive night time boarding in international waters. Didn't work, only served to enrage those on the ship leading to conflict and devastating result. Israel bungled it, the result so damaging that for a change the blood spilt by the IDF might not have been in vain.
The hard core of terrorists on the ship , prepared themselves in advance including knives, and sticks to confront the boarders.
Israel did the only thing possible . This is antisemitism at its worst .
What has a botched military operation to do with antisemitism?
Sure !!! If anything goes wrong, or anybody opposes you, they are directly antisemitists...You're always right, aren't you???
Excuse me, did you just suggest that when armed soldiers, in the course of illegally boarding non-military vessels in international waters, use firearms against unarmed civilian passengers, that constitutes "self-defense"? I'm not sure that term means what you think it means.
So, if you were attacked by more than a hundred people (6 vessels, 750 people), you would stay still to death, just like a sheep? C'mom. Don't be ridiculous. They were attacked and would die there. If they aborded the vessel in international waters, that's wrong. But does this give the "pacifics" the right to hurt and kill?
So-called "peace activists" were armed with deadly weapon. All this incident was provocated by them. They deserved what they got. Why would you call this boarding illegal? Well, torpedoing of those ships would be more appropriate.
self-defense means defending one self and it's completely fine to do so when a group of terrorist-supporters try to lynch a soldier with knives and sticks.. "unarmed civilians" pretty funny term:)
Didn't you watch the footage of the "Unarmed civilian passengers" beating IDF commandos to death? Clubbing them with stick, iron bars, throwing them from one deck to the other, finishing them off on the floor? You are nuts, like Goebbels and Streicher. Vox Populi, Vox Antisemitica.
Clearly you are a band wagon liberal or muslim who read an article from al jazeera and assumed it was true. Go watch the actual footage and you will see as soon as the Israeli commandos landed on the deck they were clubbed with metal sticks and knives. For the typical Muslim response, yes sticks and knives and metal pipes can kill people
Mark you seem to be suggesting that the commandos lives were not under threat? Firearms can be legitimately used against knives and baseball bats when your life is threatened.
So, it was indeed self-defense.
The commandos were initially using paint guns. They (reasonably or unreasonably) expected mild resistance - not a bunch of organized IHH provacateurs. Once they were attacked and their lives threatened (and don't you dare pretend you don't know they were) they had no choice but to defend themselves. So don't do yourself the disservice of pretending you have no idea what actually happened.
the people on board were not unarmed, they were beating the soldiers with pipes. would you have acted any differently? not a chance. don't act all pious when you have no idea what its like to be in that situation.