Spat or not, Turkey still using Israeli tech in attacks on Kurdish PKK rebels
Turkish military continues to operate Israeli-made drones, despite recent political tensions between Ankara and Jerusalem; Turkish sources say no decision has been made to formally freeze defense deals with Israel.
By Zvi Bar'el Tags: Israel news Turkey Gaza flotillaThe rhetoric from Turkey's prime minister and reports from Turkey on a freeze of deals with Israeli defense contractors have not kept the Turkish army from using Israeli technology against the Kurdish PKK rebels inside Iraq.
According to Turkish sources, the Turkish army has been using Israeli-made drones to locate members of the PKK, an organization on Ankara's list of terrorist groups.
Turkey reported late last week that during operations in May, its forces killed some 130 Kurdish militants in Iraqi territory; it described this as an impressive achievement against terrorism.
But yesterday it turned out that Turkey's gains have been limited, as 10 Turkish soldiers were killed in attacks by the PKK over the weekend. Eight were killed in an attack near a Turkish border town with Iraq and two by a roadside bomb detonated as they patrolled the border.
 |
A Heron drone in El Salvador, in May 2009 |
| Photo by: AP |
Since March, when PKK attacks resumed, 43 Turkish soldiers have lost their lives in the fighting. Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has said "foreign elements" are behind the Kurdish attacks on the Turkish army, but has not given details. He says the PKK has become a subcontractor for foreign interests.
Following Israel's raid on the Gaza-bound flotilla, Turkish analysts close to the regime have blamed Israel for encouraging the Kurds to attack the Turkish army as revenge for Ankara's support for the flotilla's organizers.
No decision on freezing deals
Meanwhile, official Turkish sources say no decision has been made to formally freeze deals with Israel.
They say a government committee that discussed the issue last week has decided to leave the matter to the Turkish defense industry to decide. Many of these companies are either government-owned or co-owned with private firms.
Turkish sources say there is a dispute between the Turkish Foreign Ministry, which does not want steps to be taken against Israel, and people in the governing Justice and Development Party who want such pressure.
Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu says it is still too early to discuss sanctions. He has, however, backed calls for an international inquiry into the flotilla incident.
He also wants an Israeli apology for the killing of Turkish citizens, compensation for their families and a lifting of the blockade on the Gaza Strip. All these would be preconditions for restoring full ties with Israel.
Davutoglu is aware of the pressure that congressmen, with the encouragement of the Jewish lobby, are putting on the Obama administration to cool relations with Ankara, as well as comments in the European Union that Turkey appears to have "abandoned the West."
"Turkey does not want to lose what it gained on the international front from the flotilla incident," a source at the Turkish Foreign Ministry told Haaretz. "But it is important to remember that the prime minister is operating on the basis of internal political considerations, not only a cool analysis of Turkish interests on the international level."
Why Facebook Connect?
Comment on Haaretz.com articles with your Facebook login, and share your thoughts on your own wall.
- Latest
- Most Viewed
- Most Rated
- Open all
Don't support nasyonalist and ignorant people in israel and turkey. İf smart people keep slient silly people will talk rubbish and turkey and israel will be damage. we have to stop silly people and never let them talk right now. Tayyip is one of them and absolutly he should be stopped
I know that the matter much further than this, and the politicians do not fear the God, and that most Turks are politicians, they do not think they will die, and I do not rule out that the so-called "freedom flotilla" of Turkey is a last translated turkish drama. In fact, Turkey is not a Muslim country!!! Because it is practiced terrorism against the Kurdish people, and together with the devil in the definition of Halal and Haram. Why all this hatred of Israel?, Did not Turkey occupy Arab land for four centuries? And now Syrian territory in cilicia and Iskenderun that considered one of the most fertile land, as well as space, it more than Gaza and the West Bank, much? Why is this weakness from Syrian and why the Arab applause for Turkey?? In fact , israel is a humanist country and it is more democratic from the turks and arabs and persians .
Cowered Israeli, Israel should begin sending tanks flying the Israeli flag to aid the PKK. I do not feel sorry for Kurdish baby killers, Thanks PKK.
Israel is already sending the tanks to Turkey m8. Israel is number 1 profit maker of war in the world. If u thank pkk i will tank hamas for u 2
:D turkey' population 70 million. and israel is??? :D:D
I know that the matter much further than this, and the politicians do not fear the God, and that most Turks are politicians, they do not think they will die, and I do not rule out that the so-called "freedom flotilla" of Turkey is a last translated turkish drama. In fact, Turkey is not a Muslim country!!! Because it is practiced terrorism against the Kurdish people, and together with the devil in the definition of Halal and Haram. Why all this hatred of Israel?, Did not Turkey occupy Arab land for four centuries? And now Syrian territory in cilicia and Iskenderun that considered one of the most fertile land, as well as space, it more than Gaza and the West Bank, much? Why is this weakness from Syrian and why the Arab applause for Turkey?? In fact , israel is a humanist country and it is more democratic from the turks and arabs and persians .
I know that the matter much further than this, and the politicians do not fear the God, and that most Turks are politicians, they do not think they will die, and I do not rule out that the so-called "freedom flotilla" of Turkey is a last translated turkish drama. In fact, Turkey is not a Muslim country!!! Because it is practiced terrorism against the Kurdish people, and together with the devil in the definition of Halal and Haram. Why all this hatred of Israel?, Did not Turkey occupy Arab land for four centuries? And now Syrian territory in cilicia and Iskenderun that considered one of the most fertile land, as well as space, it more than Gaza and the West Bank, much? Why is this weakness from Syrian and why the Arab applause for Turkey?? In fact , israel is a humanist country and it is more democratic from the turks and arabs and persians .
You mean the city state that had independence after the first world war but wanted to join Turkey on it own accord after 1938. Yeaa... more democratic.... then Turkey.... Apart from the fact that you lock up 1.5million people and starve them of medicine and food, and you opress the local arabs and evict them from their houses... how more democratic can you get?
If the purpose of this article was to say that Turkey has been killing some more Kurds fine say so. The whole business about these being Israeli drones that Turkey is using sounds to me like nothing but an excuse to condemn and blame Israel rather than it having anything to do with the actual story. Turkey like many other countries bought some Israeli drones and they have decided to use them in combat against the kurds, Canada & a number of European nations are using Israeli drones in Afghanistan to kill Taliban leaders. So I would like to know the purpose of an article about the fact Israeli drones are the ones being use against the Kurds.
here is propaganda at its best never heard isreali politicans speek up for kurdish people until this spat between tukey and isreal started. when isreal supplied their weapons they didnt ask turkey not to use it against the kurds.An isreali goverment must learn that we out here in the wild world are not stupid and history has thought us that these blatened lies are dangerous and the people speading them will be blamed for every confict that happens
U.S. military officials said on attacks that they have "an understanding" with Turkey. They always understand Turkey but they have difficulty to understand that about 2500 Kurdish children in Turkish prisons. (America and NATO, has problem with understanding and misunderstanding). I feel sorry for their understanding and hypocrisy. I hope one day they do understand that the occupation of Kurdistan is impossible, it costs. Sir M. Barzany, 60 years ago said :( Kurdistan is a big cemetery for our enemies) The international community is equally guilty for the crime that Turkey has committed against the Kurds. Key NATO members have given unconditional military and economic assistance to Turkey since 1930s and most of these resources have been used to repress Kurds.
Key NATO members have given unconditional military and economic assistance to Turkey since 1930s and most of these resources have been used to repress Kurds
while i agree with you on the way kurds have beign treated by other nations it is not in kudish intrest to believe isreal is their friend they are only using this issue as a propaganda tool against turkey.they dont care for kurds otherwise they wouldnt have given drones to turkey
while i agree with you on the way kurds have beign treated by other nations it is not in kudish intrest to believe isreal is their friend they are only using this issue as a propaganda tool against turkey.they dont care for kurds otherwise they wouldnt have given drones to turkey
Israel should offer drones to the Kurdish PKK in keeping with 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend.'
The head of a Kurdish party sent to six months in prison for calling the head of the PKK, Mr. Ocalan, instead of just Ocalan, He joins the more than 1500 Kurdish politicians Turkey imprisoned in the last year alone. More than 10,000 Kurdish political prisoners in Turkish jails, the torture and murder of Kurdish political activists is going on in Turkey. TAYAD, the organization representing the families of prisoners were fascinated by the more than 2500 children in Turkish prisoners who are there on "terrorism charges. Like that 12 year old you arrested in 2008 for singing a Kurdish folk song
and pkk killed more then 30000 innocent and CIVIL turks. how about that???
and the IAF still uses the US made F-15 despite the recent tensions, big surprise, isn't it?! That is news in Israel?
over the extradition of an Israeli national travelling on a Polish passport who is accused of obtaining a German Passport fraudelently. I presume the Dolphin Class Submarines provided by Germany are currently in dock not being used? Thought not.
Never trust Turks...........Remember their allies during the two world wars.
Erdogan, described it with a straight face on his recent visit to Washington as a “tolerant” country, is vehemently against an “ethnic federation” even for the Kurds outside its borders --- or any Kurdish federation even if it were in Argentina--- even though its own name refers, by definition, to only one ethnic group, the Turks, and in actuality it recognizes only one ethnic group to the exclusion of all the others. “Happy is he who is born a Turk
Ataturk was a great leader but he made a big, huge mistake that still haunts Turkey: NATIONALISM! Kurds have a long history and tradition, they don't want to assimilate, after 90 years of assimilation policies didn't work. Another mistake was mixing secularism with nationalism. Now Islamists have better relations with Kurds and many Kurds support Erdogan. Seculars should quit Ataturk's nationalism and accept Kurds as Kurds. Then secular parties can have a chance to beat Erdogan.
PKK used to be supported by Palestinians, PKK militants were trained in Palestinian camps. Some PKK terrorists fought alongside with Al Fatah against Israel. Now, I see there are a lot of PKK lover in Israel. Unfortunately, our prime minister declared that he is supporting Hamas. Tayyip Erdoğan is just a showman, he had lost fanatic Islamist's support in last elections and he just wanted to regain it. Turkish Armed Forces is different from government, TAF has always been the protector of Modern Turkey and secularism. Islamic Fanatics hates TAF because in 1997 TAF forced the Islamic goverment to resign.
When a good friend makes mistake you have to tell it, even when you like or not. Besides that Israel used also weapons from the US in Gaza and Libanon. Till now there are millions of personal mines in Libanon, dropped by the IDF at the end of the Libanon war. The mines where also deliverd by the US.
Kurds form a population of over 50 milion people in middle east and still with out a country. Create a state for the kurds! erdogan and ahmadinejad and assad kills kurds every today, forbidds them to speak kurdish and still they have the guts to talk about palestinians and human rights.. turkey stop your dubble talk and take care of your own problem, I remember that erdogan had said , you shall not kill in hebrew, well let us say in turkish, You shall not kill to erdogan and turkey!!
well if you love them so much why don't you give them a place in israel?
Are they paid for? Yes. So what is the problem? If I was in Turkey, I would let China and Russia to have some of them. Than Turkey becomes closer partner to future World Power, China.
Kurds are the only true friends of Israel in the area, shame on Israel.
you made laugh when you say ISRAELI TECHNOLOGY>>> IT IS AMERCIAN technology and just you had stolen it as usual.
It is only fair if Turkey backs Hamas (an illegitimate terrorist organization) that Israel backs the PKK (legitimate freedom fighters).
you dont have anything to loose apart from the 2nd most power country millitaryly in NATO. Greeks have done it before, they were nearly invaded.
that "legitimate freedom fighters" killed more than 30000 CIVIL turks without mercy. and they want half of the turkey, not "freedom". so turkey not an invader like jews and pkk is not defending its territory like hamas.
Don't support nasyonalist and ignorant people in israel and turkey. İf smart people keep slient silly people will talk rubbish and turkey and israel will be damage. we have to stop silly people and never let them talk right now. We love friends from israel.
Don't support nasyonalist and ignorant people in israel and turkey. İf smart people keep slient silly people will talk rubbish and turkey and israel will be damage. we have to stop silly people and never let them talk right now. We love friends from israel.
and someone earns money with promoting blood, guess who?
Turkey has an insatiable desire to repress Kurds be it in Turkey or elsewhere. Turkish leaders are on record saying that they oppose Kurdish autonomy even if it were in Argentina
Thats why Barzani, the local governing president in northern Iraq for kurds, is welcomed like a state president....
Turkish diplomats slam Erdogan's 'adventurous' policy Retired ambassadors issue statement saying PM may be caught up in neo-Ottomanism. 'Those who claim to know history well must remember misfortunes brought to our country because of imaginative cheap hopes,' they say Ynet Published: 06.19.10, 20:13 / Israel News A group of former Turkish diplomats issued a statement on Friday in which they accused Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan of implementing an "adventurous" foreign policy. According to a report published by Turkish daily Hurriyet, the former diplomats, among them many retired ambassadors, were responding to criticism leveled by the Turkish PM. "Erdoğan often criticizes retired ambassadors who slam the government’s foreign policy, especially when there are concerns that Turkey is drifting away from the West. The prime minister calls them 'mon chers,' a French term intended to humiliate the diplomats." The report said.
do not underestimate turkish tecnology the imaging systems of herons bought are turkish made.we use turkish made drones as well. i hope extremism from both sides end so friendship continues.
Those who favor the PKK are simply taking the position that terrorism is OK if it favors the political objective you want. And those who think Turkey cannot get along in its fight against the PKK without Israel should rethink. Do you hate Turkey's government so much that you now think terrorism is a good thing? If so, you should see your friendly psychiatrist. Or, admit that you too favor terrorism over any rule of law. You also give every justification possible for Hamas and the tactics it uses.
Turkey is a terrorist state, and we do not need Fatwa from you to liberate Kurdistan. keep support the Turkish racsit state.
Do you think 2500 Kurdish children inTurkish prisons is a good think? Do you know how Turks treat Kurds in Turkish prisons? have ever seen any film about Nazi Germany and treatment of Jews? wake up ..shame on you compare PKK with Hamas
poor nation with such an immoral leader. he harms all Turkey he harms all Palestinians Palestinian needs supporters who will guide them to an open civil society. Palestine was an area of the Ottoman empire, and its future will be bright if it can find the ideals of the European Enlightenment.
If you don't want Turkey to use those drones you should payback the money you have received with great joy and pleasure. Come on. You guys should know the rules better than us.
It's the millions of jihadists who voted for him and are just waiting for him to show them the enemy.Yes we should support the kurds and recognize the Armenian Genocide.
should sell the drones and other weapons to the Kurds.
I suppose their bombing Kurd villages and calling them "rebels" is no war crime. In any event, they are in a no-lose situation since the world, at Turkish inspiration, seems more than inclined to see the hand of Israel behind every problem, including now the Kurdish rebellion. As if the Kurds would attack because Israel asked them to? Does anyone believe this insane anti-Israel pathological nonsense?
And another thing: You want to join Europe? Beyond the obvious, have you asked yourself what Europe means? Europe is first and foremost a state of mind: the product of two hundred years of fighting against and rejecting and ridiculing the very nationalism that still defines your way of thinking. You ask the Kurds who have taken up arms against you to “repent” and surrender. But isn’t repentance, with its roots in religious orthodoxy and bigotry, the very opposite of what the European consciousness has been all about? For to repent is not just a matter of admitting guilt; it is also committing oneself to a type of thinking that belongs in dictatorships and theocracies, not democracies.
Of course we are using them. We didn't buy them to hang on our walls. We bought them from Israel because we considered Israel as friends and gave the project to Israel and not to a European nation or US. We are in process of developing our own technology as well. Israeli military technology is cheaper than other countries weapons systems. It is not necessarily better but cheaper. We always have other options. Israel will have to apologize for its reckless piracy in the international waters.
Perhaps Israel should launch a flotilla to save kurds that have been oppressed by the Turks and denied their Ancestral Homeland.
turks entered anatolia in 1071. so whose those lands? turks living there nearly 1000 years.
I have read that Ergodan's maternal grandmother was a jew forced to Islam.His last name has no Turkish meening. ahmadinejads father is a convertes to islam jew as well. Do they hate the jews more after conversion I wander??
If they have self respect, they won't use our weapons. Go use your Othoman leftover knives and axes.But no, they want it both ways.we should stop all weapon exports or triple the price to Turks
if you do that you'll be bankrupt :D
allegedly 250 terrorists penetrated from Iraqi border. If so called Israeli hi-tech drones can not detect 250 PKK militants, Turkey is really late to leave Israeli junk materials. Turkey has its own IHH drones, I think it is time to develop and use them. Turkey sometimes do not develop its own hi-tech equipments as they buy them from Israel because of financial advantages, i see that it was a wrong decision. On the other hand, turkish army had complaint of Israeli drones' insufficiencies at high altitute. So, they were right.
Israel is the world leader in drones -- almost all US drones are essentially Israeli. You get what you pay -- the high-end large models have turbo-prop engines and cutting-edge optics, but Turkey most likely got the economy versions.
Israel is the world leader in drones -- almost all US drones are essentially Israeli. You get what you pay -- the high-end large models have turbo-prop engines and cutting-edge optics, but Turkey most likely got the economy versions.
Where is ths UN condemnation? I think the UN or the ARAB UN only condemns the Jews in Israel.
You are making Turkey the bad guy to the eyes of Israeli opinion !! Leave her alone. Israel and Turkey don't worth much more than the other. I think it's for us to take our responsibilities too !!! Enough of blaming the others all the time. B.B has only managed to isolate us from the rest of the world, like he did previously. Wake up people of Israel - it is time for acting as grown ups.
Turkey can get support from anywhere they wish but they have not and will not eliminate PKK/KADEK basis in Kurdistan. PKK has support of millions of people all around the world and we are not just few hundred horse traders as Turks taught many years ago these days are long over. PKK’s number change between few millions to ten’s of million all around the world! 3 million people just in Europe supports the PKK hole heartedly and many millions of more supports PKK in Kurdistan.
But it takes guts to try to fight us for the piece of land that our ancestors have died for 1000 years.
Where are the big leftist, humanist in Europe? Where are the boycotts? Where is the rage? Where are the urgent UN meetings? Where are the UNHRC investigative committees? Where are the hilarious accusation of our talkback armchair terrorists? Of course, no Israelis or Jews are involved.
whooaa now wait a second. it's not a good thing for you to make somethings up like that. the fact is pkk killed 30000 turks in all around turkey.
I believe that the turks did pay for Israel aircrafts so what is the issue?
od course they will use. Did they not pay you for that?
it's hilarious to see israel supporters love the kurds in these comments, presumably just because turkey dislikes them. i hope you realize that the pkk is allied with the taliban in iraq, has been responsible for more deaths than hamas and fatah combined, and essentially wants to annex a third of iraq, syria, turkey, and iran for itself. i will never understand how israelis can support this horrible organisation while damning the palestinians to hell for the, like, 100 people they killed with goddamn bottle rockets in a decade.
but why is it not hilarious that Turkey is supporting Hamas when they are dealing with their own islamic terrorist groups. And yet, while the PKK has been going after military targets, hamas purposely targets civilians.
I have to dissapoint you, but there are no Taliban in Iraq. The PKK (a former Marxist/leftist now nationalist organisation) does not fit well with the Islamofascism of Taliban. The PKK do not want to annex any territory. They just want the Kurds to get their rights respected and they strife for autonomy.
Thats what the armenians wanted to do... then move on to full independence. You have to be a child to believe in the lies of the terrorist scum! First in 1980 and 1990 they said they were fighting for independence, how comes they changed so quickly for autonomy.
...time has come for Israel to review it's absurd pro-Turkish stand on the genocide of Armenian people, and will stop supplying drones that affect the PKK. Even at the risk of losing the military alliance, this would cause second thoughts even in Erdogan.
Bunch of crazed Islamics.
Israel should stop helpping Turk Junta stage war against kurdish people, the Kurdish People love Isreal and they like Isreal to stop help Turkey war. Whey Turkey taking case of a few million Plastinin and at sametime wagining war against 50 million Kurd.
Obviously you are Kurdish. Turkey has been a republic since 1923 and offers equal rights to all citizens born on it's soil. That is, as long as they themselves accept a free education, pursue a political career... until the PKK showed up killing women and children, torching schools and destroying government investment in the region that is. Thats when it got really tough for the Kurdish people. PKK is a disgrace for the Kurdish people.
If NATO, Isarel and America reduse their support to Turkey, Turkish racist state will survive a couple of hours, like previous Iraqi racsit state. history is history , no way for racsit states in history ..
get outta all occupied lands during the ottoman empire or cooperate with America. you got all you got cause we let you have it.
Your name is Armenian. My apologies for killing 1,5 million Armenians during WWI. We are not proud of Armenian genocide. I hope my country will accept it officially as many Turks do. We are asking Israel to apologize. The ball is on Israel's court. We know that without an apology Turkey will treat Israel as a rogue pirate state from now on. 76 million Turks see Israel as a terrorist state already. The propaganda in Turkey against Israel is creating a giant enemy for Israel. I hope this ends with an apology.
No wonder the Kurds love Israel.
What does Bar'el want the Turks to do? What a piece of drivel is this article.
Israel should stop fooling itself and forget about Turkey.Turkey is not a friend of Israel and never was".He who walks with Turkeys can not soar with eagles."
You better learn some history. Turkey has been the second biggest ally of Israel in the last century.
Turkey was indeed an ally when there was an elite government in power. Now that they are fully democratic, they are becoming more and more ant-Israel and pro-Islamist.
Israel cannot be Turkey's punching ball for Turkey to rival Iran and become the leader of the Arab street.
It's not the Turks that are not Israels friends. It is Mr. Erdoan and his extreme pro islamist party APK. He clearly supprots the axis of terror.
The Turks truly abandoned the West when it carried out their atrocities on Cypress. They know what will happen if they proceed with their oh so obvious Islamist plans. Too bad.
and yet Israel would still love to lie in bed with turkey and sell them more technology. Do they not think that Turkey will hand this technology over to their Iranian and Lebanese buddies now to use against Israel?
And Israelis were eating Turkish cheese until recently.., :)
or white cheese at Raspberry stores in Whitestone. It is made of sheep milk and tastes great. I don't buy any Ulker products including Godiva chocolates . Especially the cheese is tasteless.
dear david, the Bulgarian cheese is (bjalo sirene) the greek call it feta and the turks call it beyaz peynir it's all the same. Here in Israel the chees is imported from Turkiye. hayvan
Sutas feta is really good. You can try if you can find it... mmmm Yummmmy!!!
erdogan is showing his moslem fanaticism and iranian association for a long time...The turkysh armed forces have a tradition of pro western loyalty and collaboration with Israel...It's time for a regime change in Turkey.There must be army officials there,that understand gthe this erfogan "character" will drown turkey in the same cesspool with syria and iran...
The high ranking officials with pro western views have been imprisoned by Erdogan. They were accused of some immaginary plans to overthrow the government. The solution for Turkey is a regime change. Good luck my friends.
The high ranking officials with pro western views have been imprisoned by Erdogan. They were accused of some immaginary plans to overthrow the government. The solution for Turkey is a regime change. Good luck my friends.
A freedom flotilla to help the kurds, it seems as though Turkey considers their actions terror? Why don't they feel the same about Hamas? Maybe Israel should send a naval vessel in to assist the kurds? I think that Turkey must be careful when playing the double standard game
I just love these ignorant comparisons. Unlike Gaza, the Turkish Kurdistan is within the borders of Turkey, it's not subject to any blockade, and does not have a humanitarian crisis. Finally, where would you actually send the flotilla? The region doesn't have a coastline!
and is listed as a terrorist group by many western countries. A naval bloackade is not illegal, read up on your international laws. And the true humanitarian crisis is letting millions of Palestinians destinies lie in the hands of such terrorists.
I'm sure they would be thrilled.
The kurds should be supported to set up their own state and take back their occupied territories from Turkey, Syria and Iran. Israel should support the kurds as they are a distinct ethnic people with a valid claim to their lands. Even more so they do not seek to kill the jews like the others.
What makes you think that the Kurds want an independent state? Obviously, you do not know anything about the issue.
you seem really confused. there are no occupied territories--the kurds never had an independent state. there is no legal occupation going on. they just want parts of several countries to themselves.
palestinians neither had an independant state
israeli cant support independent Palestinian state, how come they support another one, while they are savegly killing others. very funny
We Kurds, don't need your and your big brothers support. We are not ready for an independent state, in fact we don't want an independent state in Turkish territories. And remember almost all the passengers of Gaza flotilla were Kurds. Obviously you know nothing about 1988 Halabja massacre. Turks were opened their borders to 400.000 Kurds. Where were Israelis then... We know why you are supporting an independent Kurdish state. Kurdish territories will not be yours and your big brothers colony in middle east.
this comment of yours sums up the middle east an isreali state causing trouble in every region .your attitude is no better than the so called terrorist you complaine about.obviously you believe that if there is internal trouble in countries surrounding you its good for isreal what logic no wonder there no peace
Shame on Israel for selling weapons to a state which murders and oppresses the Kurds.
I don't believe one needs to go too deep into geo-political or human processes to understand what happened here. Erdogan is an active leader with ideas. He was chosen by Time magazine as the 17th most influential leader in the world in 2009. Among his activities was trying to mediate between Israel (under Olmert) and Syria, which the rise of Netanyahu put an end to. Erdogan is a devout Muslim, and I take it that he really cares about the Gaza people under Israeli "siege", which Erdogan wanted to help in lifting. Nothing to do with supporting Hamas. In the Flotilla incident, Turkey enabled the protesters, but the Israeli clumsy response left 9 of them dead. QUESTION: What would have been a decent Israeli reaction? ANSWER: 1. Apologize to Turkey, 2. Offer to pay some compensation to the families, and 3. Introduce some partial lifting of the siege on Gaza (which serves no known purpose other than collective punishment). Actually, Netanyahu himself did such things when Mossad agents were caught in Jordan trying to assassinate Meshaal. But with the flotilla, Israel's response was: 1. Saying no apology was deserved, 2. Blaming the passengers and calling the ship a "terror ship", and 3. Stating that the present policies will continue because Israel needs security. Don't be surprised of the resulting freeze in relations.
Since it was not accepted in the EU, it wants to lead Islamist Middle East, and crow loud against Israel, no matter what Israel does or doesn't.
Please - if you don't understand the nuances, don't try to analyze
When Turkey sends a ship sailing under white flag that is full of terrorists and whose mission is to kill boarding soldiers, you cannot expect that this act of war will stay unanswered by Israel. Keep in mind that those nine terrorists were killed in action they initiated by repeated attempts to kill soldiers and were killed in self-defense.Their families should ask compansation from those who sent them to kill. "QUESTION: What would have been a decent Israeli reaction?" ANSWER: Declare Erdogan enemy of Israel. Not surprising for a leader with murderous ideas. Why did you change the subject of this topic? ;-)
It was not Netanyahu that put an end to Israely-Sirian talks mediated by Turey but Erdogan who got offended that Olmert did not inform him of the war with Gaza that was to begin. Then, Erdogan used every possible occasion to put Israel in bad light and to attack it verbally, cancel organised military exercises and a lot more, while having happy meetings with Iranian and Sirian leaders. As for the apologies he would like to receive for the flotilla deaths, Israel tried in all means to convince Turkey, the IHH organisators and contacted many countries in order for the ships to be brought to Ashdod for inspection and then have the humanitarian aid forwarded to Gaza by road. If the aim of the flotilla was to bring their aid to the people of Gaza, they had the opportunity to have the aid delivered to the people of Gaza. They decided not to and preferred to offer a welcome party to the Israely soldiers. Please do look at the footings. It was clearly an act of self defence from the part of the soldiers that boarded the Mavi Marmara.
It was not Netanyahu that put an end to Israely-Sirian talks mediated by Turey but Erdogan who got offended that Olmert did not inform him of the war with Gaza that was to begin. Then, Erdogan used every possible occasion to put Israel in bad light and to attack it verbally, cancel organised military exercises and a lot more, while having happy meetings with Iranian and Sirian leaders. As for the apologies he would like to receive for the flotilla deaths, Israel tried in all means to convince Turkey, the IHH organisators and contacted many countries in order for the ships to be brought to Ashdod for inspection and then have the humanitarian aid forwarded to Gaza by road. If the aim of the flotilla was to bring their aid to the people of Gaza, they had the opportunity to have the aid delivered to the people of Gaza. They decided not to and preferred to offer a welcome party to the Israely soldiers. Please do look at the footings. It was clearly an act of self defence from the part of the soldiers that boarded the Mavi Marmara.
We paid millions of dollars for them. Also israel is spending our money which we paid for those planes.
These weapons must be put into the hands of the Kurds. To deny a genocide is to abate in it. Shame on Israel for having relations with Turkey until they admit their own genocidal past.
They bought them so they are Turkeys...and anyway Isael didn't invent the drone...that was done in the US along with everything else Isael has... TATA
Israel leads the world in technology, medicine, and science, nearly all the weapons used in the iraq war were made in Israel and the IDF regularly trains the US army...are you haters just allergic to knowledge and critical thinking?!
i believe they were sold, Yes they are turkeys but question is if they will buy more from israel, and if by spare parts etc. yes US did have the first drones, but the israeli are the wordls most advanced, not everything israel has was invented in the US, Israel is inventing and improoving alot of technology
Israel has developed most of the tech and weapons that America uses. In fact Alot of the American weapons that is givin to Israel gets a face lift. So there is better weapons that many people even know about like Israels new tank
edithan where did you get your info from. Israel has been teh worlds leader in drone technology for over 20 years . Uncle sam buys ISraeli productas for tehir drone planes Today they now produce theior own, but Israel loeads the wporld in drone technology
in weapons development is considered a positive in most people's book. That such a small country has such a large arsenal and advanced weaponry does not make the world look at it with respect. Like the neighborhood bully carrying guns and knives, Israel engenders contempt.
The drones were sold to Turkey for around $100 million so let Turkey so what Turkey do with the thing is non of Israels concern. Also not that it matters but these drones are Israeli designed and built not America, after the US Israel is possibly the largest designer and exporter of drones in the world . Israel was in the UAV business before the US even, it started developing the things in the late 70s and they were operational in Lebanon in the early 80s. The US didn't see the benefits of UAVS till after the 1991 Gulf War it was always manned aircraft where they saw the future. Right now there are Israeli drones used in many EU countries, South America, Eastern Europe, Turkey, India & China and even the US border patrol operates an Israeli UAV. This is one area where israel doesn't buy American and is instead the exporter.
and use it as an office to send suicide squads in Israel you will be turned into dust with your Rolls Royce, together. The question this is not Rolls Royce... so, who wants to be pulverized for supplying empires wrecking genocide on Kurds? Anybody in Israel is in for another Goldstoning? You guys want to live by international law? Here is one law unto you. Get the seat from under Erdogan or you will sit in prison for complicity in genocide of Kurds. Forget about rolls and royces and acknowledge Armenian Holocaust. And Turkey better work with Israel to make the terms of acknowledgement as soft as it is possible... cause the NATO membership is hanging in the air as tight as I have seen.
Erdogan is elected democraticly and had %40 percent of voters. This is not Erdogan's view. The hallucination of " Turkish Islamists, radicals in power etc" is just funny because Turkish people is still the same as yesterday. People who are going for Namaz is still going for namaz and people who like to drink still drinking in bars all around Istanbul and Turkey. People who wants to drink, have sex with people who are not married and only fast in Ramadan are freely doing it still. Ofcourse we have conservative toughts too, and ofcourse we have radicals. Who doesnt have them? Are you saying Israelis are not radicals? Are you saying the Zionist ideology is not extremist? Are you saying these people are not doing these things over nationalist and racist ideas and just because they need to secure their state? Do you have any historical knowledge? Have u ever come to Turkey? Have you ever made a research about Erdogan and how much support he has of the people? Do you want the army to take over turkish parliament to serve your ideology ? Do you think Turkish voters should have no influence over goverments? Do you belaive Turkish people will remain silent forever over these acts of Israel? Do you belaive Brazillian president Lula is Radical Islamist too because his country voted No for the new sanctions for Iran? When you answer these questions I will be back for more. Goodluck, Your time has started
we will work with israel from now on ! Genocide of Kurds and Armenian holocoust will not be recognised. Nato will keep us as a member,all for what becoming friendly with israel.
Erdogans, astor, clula, chavez, kim jong Il, etc all support Iran who have vowed to wipe out the Jewish state. The friend of my enemy is my enemy. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Erdoogan is the enemy for sure as he has been involved in anti semitic endeavors for decades. Whether the turks are the enemy remains to be seen.
Lula is nearly as stupid as Erdogan
First let me start by telling you that I lived half of my 60 year life in Turkey. I went to public schools ther and served in the military. I follow teh Turkish press of all spectrum daily from Hurriyet to Zaman, from Yeni Asir to Sabah, Taraf, Vakit etc. Now let's come to SADEDE Gelelim. If you believe that Erdogan is noit taking Turkey away from the Ataturk's path of modernity science and secular democracy you are in delusion. He is doing it slowly as opposed to Erbakan who wanted to do it quickly. In 7 years he silenced the military who had been the loyal defender of Ataturki's path. Today many from AKP are blaming the military for the latest PKK attack while they do not want to see the rality which is the PKK has been emboldened by the word of Erdogan who recently declared that Hamas is not a terrorist organization. And you are wrong Zionism is not an extremist ideology. It is not at all an ideology. It is merely a call for Jews to go back the the land that they originated, which is today's Israel. It does not include the WB and Gaza. When teh Arab's will be ready to accept the state of Israel in the ME as a secure country then Israel will make peace. Isral's record is clear. Made peace with Egypt by giving back the oil rich Sinai. So all these mythical lies that are fed to you in Tirkey about Sionism are wrong. Oh I don't know Erdogan in person but I rad a lot anbout him in the Turkish media. But let me surprise you. I had met Fethullah Gulen many years ago when he was the Imam of Alsancak Hocazade Camii. Iyi geceler Mehmet
Let me ask you 1 more thing then (Actually you barely answered 1-2 questions I asked): Why Arab states have to accept your existence in the first place ?
Ah btw, Ataturk is not god himself, we love him respect him but we also know he was the founder and had his own politic view. Nobody have to follow his path since he was also a human being and also a politician. Are you following every step Ben gurion told you to? Are americans setting their policiy around Washingtons ideas? The world and people changes. Ataturk was one man and he will remain as the respected and loved leader and the foudner of our republic. We are not slaves to him nor his ideas. Turkey suffered from people who interpreted all his ideas and made a state ideology to PRESSURE Turks, Religious people and wait for it Kurds and all the others who opposed those ideology. Just because it was safer for you it doesnt mean the ideas were right. We all know you could applause anyone who agrees with you even that person does not deserve any respect. That is all you did, that is all you do and that will be the only thing you will be doing : Lie as much as you can, make as much people as you can to belaive them, expect the world the support you, if you dont find the support create the necessary support with you connections in the world (which is today US probably) In the end; its all about looking good right? not doing to good thing
Istanbul is a wonderful city with intense life,with citizens extremely polite.completely contrarily to Israel population arrogant and bad educated.
To Mehmeht it's all in the beholder, you have stated no valid facts nor points and your understanding of the Israeli-Palestinians situation is seems limited to the rubbish you are being feed by the press in your so called "democratic" country. So Democratic that it's blocking Youtube for a silly video about Ata-turk. the fact is Turkey is the last place on earth to lecture anyone about human rights and Lula has an agenda just like Erdoan has an agenda and Bush had an agenda and Bibi has an agenda, you see that's the game of international affairs, but hey why the heck am I trying to open a dialogue with someone that has the arguments of a 5 year old Saudi kinder garden girl. I better go watch some football and get drunk it will serve a better purpose
How many years ago you met with Gulen David? and why this is important to tell here, why is it relevant? And why did you live that long in Turkey? any secret to share? and one more question? soryy but you seem like knowing a lot about Turkey and Isreal.. there is a rumor here that Isreal is behind the current PKK attacks, do you agree? you can answer inTurkish if you like. Yo seem like frank enought to be asked these questions, i hope u dont mind :)
1. I donot make any claims in religious base. Today there are 5 million Jews in Palestine. History has proven that when these Jews did not have a home land they have been subject to manyu atrocities around the world. Over 100 thousand Iraqi Jews were kicked out in 1941 before Israel was created., Same year Turkey passed Valik Vergisi and more. 2. Israel was created by the same people and the same powers; The UN, British and French. Israel has as much right to exist in Palestine as the Arabs. 3. If it is good for Turks to have a tewo regional solution in Cyprus why shouldn't Israel also have the right to exist? More Jews were killed in Palestine by Arabs then Turks by Greeks in Cyprus. 4. Unlike The Turks who are originally from Central Asia -Uighurs around Xinjian China - Israel is the historical land of Jewish nation. Asia Minor or ANADOLU historically belongs to Greeks in the west (Ephesus, Troy etc) Armenians and Kurds in the east. So ar you ready to take the 50 Million Turks back to Xinjian or let Turkey be divided between Greeks, Armenians and Kurds and live under their sovereignty?
The TSK already made a clear statement about it. In fact even after all the things that happened the Israeli and Turkish military are cooperating. Several news articled appeared in world and Turkish press confirming it. I am against Gulen and his movement. I met him in Izmir because a college class mate of mine was his follower and I attended a funeral at Hocazade Camii of his family. The reason I mentioned is that I am very familiar with Turkey with connections to all sides of the political and social spectrum. I also had friends who spend time at Umraniye jail for being leftists and tortured. I was born and raised in Turkey.I served in the military as YEDEK SUBAY. I left Turkey after Iran fell to Ayatollah Humeyni fearing the same would happen.
and I am sorry that you left Turkey, thats really sad. This land is beatiful with its Musevis, Suryanis, Armeninas, Kurds, Lazs.... and Turks... And as Erdogan said Musevis are emanet to us from the Ottomans... you are always welcome to come here, its also your country... i wish Isreal would have a little bit of this hosbiltality or atleast mercy before killing our 9 countrymen...
The ultra religious IHH started a holy war (GAZANIZ MUBAREK OLSUN was chanted while boarding the ship) against Israel when boarding the ship. They started the trip with the bad intentions of provoking the unfortunate incident. Thre is a rule oin law that when you provoke to be beaten you don't have any recourse. The TV judge Judy in USA describes it as "you asked for it you got it' rule and in Tiurkish you might say ' KENDI DUSEN AGLAMAZ' rule. Ask yourself this question: While many Turkish people in Kyrgystan and Uzbekistan are dying, while many Uighurs who are the ancestors of Turks are dying why doesn't IHH send them help too? Deniz; when Recel bey is saying that teh Jews of turkey are EMANET he really means hostage. Shall I also remind you that Jewish dentist Yasef Yahya, Christian priest Santoro, Thre Christian publishers in Amasya they were all EMANET to Recep bey but they ar all killed by ultra religious fanatics in Turkey, followers of AKP. Is thsi the hospitality of Turkey? Isn't this called EMANETE IHANET?
Erdogan is obviusly anticemite and antiIsraely! He is representing all turkish islamist with ties to hamas and hesbolla alike! Do not expect nothing good while he and his right wing party in power! Thank you.
This is a VERY strange front page news story. I am learning a lot about Israel by reading this paper. These are weapons that were purchased. This is not a story, unless its audience is school children who are saying, "see! We may not be friends, but you're still using the red pen I SOLD to you!" Is this really the news inside Israel too? Or is this just for an international audience? It's very immature sounding and I'm wondering if local Israelis can see this too. Maybe it's just this paper? What other ones are good to read? thank you
unless you are warmongering far right extreme jewish!
The poin here, that seems to have flown right over your head is that while turkey is eager to talk tough about freezing ties with Israel, including over 7 billion dollars in weapons purchases, they still seemingly can't live without Israeli technology and are in fact, using it to kill their enemies, all the while telling Israel "though shalt not kill" which makes them bonafide hypocrites and makes it hard to take them seriously. Do you think you understand now?
The Turks have been slaughtering the Kurds, invading a foreign territories and people like you are silent. Only when Israel defends itself everyone jumps and bash Israel. That is strange!
We paid millions of dollars ofcourse we will use them :)
of course ,but after Mr Erdogan recently started to preach ;"Thou shall not kill " , I assumed that the drones had been put to civilian use like helping Kurdish farmers with watering in times of drought.
Dereczynski; You said better then I could have said. Thank you. Erdogan only uses the commandments that fits him. Kilicdaroglu reminded him of the others but no answer from Erdogan.
then fall out with england. i will refuse to use my rolls royce any more?
Hello If you 'fall out with england' you can still use your rolls royce. I understand that most of these cars are now made by German companies.
Hello If you 'fall out with england' you can still use your rolls royce. I understand that most of these cars are now made by German companies.
Did they get it for free ? No ! Was it charity ? No ! Did you enjoy the money they paid you back ? YES for sure.
Erdaogan is not Turkey. He can count for 30% of the Turks in elections. He did gain more because there is no proportional representation like in the UK and because there was no alternative in the past (the parties of the past detroyed Turkey economically till 2001 for 30 years). But a lot has changed. Many parties are working together now and the main opposition is doing well in the polls. Israel should be patient and silent for a year till the elections. Why, because they can loose those voices in the opposition too if things get out of hand. Concerning techonlogy, Turkey has a problem with its education system, so they will depend on Israel for at least 40 years. By the way,the extreme right wing parties in Israel are making relations worse too ....even in Europe not many ministers want to meet a person like Liebermann...what happend with Israel...extreme cicumstances creating extreme thoughts in time ?
let me remind you something! turkey is member of NATO which means turkey can easily get drones from european countries, turkey is already buying russian made missiles S-300 and S-400
There is no proportional rep in the UK, UKIP had 1mill votes but got no seats, you call that proportional?