South Africa: Israel actions in East Jerusalem akin to apartheid

on the UN partition plan, for the area wasnt designated to Israel either

Israel can procedurally process as many "legal" evictions it wants, it doesn't change the fact that there is a double standard. If Israel was really interested in property rights, why dont the courts address the cases of homes that were owned by Arabs pre-state?

South Africa today,is besieged,with AIDS murder,fear of going out after dark,squalor in its streets,& embezzelement. What can one expect with the likes of that silly one called TuTu ? Eh?

You keep repeating over and over that Israel's violation of UNSC resolutions and articles of the 4th Geneva Convention are not illegal because the word "illegal" is not actually used in those instruments. This hair-splitting semantics is fraudulent. It's a specious argument, and to prevent someone uninformed from believing you, it should be put to rest. The statutes describing "Capital Murder" in the US do not use the word "illegal." But violation of the statute can carry the death penalty. You description of the meaning of the 4th Geneva Convention is wrong either because you don't know any better, or because you are intellectually dishonest. Israel is in violation of articles 49, (the transfer of civilian population to occupied territory) 53 and 147 of the 4th Geneva Convention. None of those articles use the word "illegal" but violation of them can be considered a war crime and prosecutable by the International Criminal Court.

Your answer is better the that of US citizen's but in fact the Jebusites built Jerusalem according to the Bible and they occupied the city for 100 years after the Israelites entered Canaan.

You may be reporting Caradon accurately, but I can find no such quote. But Caradon did say during a symposium on the resolution,?Israel was in clear defiance of resolution 242.? He cited specifically colonialism on the West Bank, Gaza and Golan. Arthur Goldberg, the US Ambassador to the UN, and a participant in the drafting of the resolution said, ?resolution 242 calls for the withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the 1967 conflict.? Caradon was also quoted as saying, ?there was no justification for annexation of territory on the Arab side of the 1967 line.? Lauterpacht, Schwebel and issues of self defense aside, such opinions have no legal bearing on Israel being in violation also of UN 452 and 465, and articles 49, 53 and 147 of 4th Geneva Convention. Israel is also probably in violation of article 33 of 4th Geneva Convention re issue of collective punishment of a civilian population in Gaza. And the ICJ declared the security wall illegal.

'.... were living in buildings that have been owned by Jews since before Israel's founding,..' This is the justification for evicting native Palestinian? How many homes in 'West' Jerusalem were owned and lived in by Palestinians before '48 and which were taken over by immigrants without legal process or purchase? How many?

Please read the Bible again. It does not say the original inhabitants of Jerusalem were the Jews. That is Israeli propaganda, and like most propaganda, a lie. When Joshua led the 12 tribes of the Israelites across the river Jordan into Canaan, also known at that time as Palestine, the land was occupied by semite tribes, Hittites, Amorites and Jebusites. The Jebusites built Jerusalem, and occupied it for 100 years after the Israelites entered Canaan.They weren't called Arabs then, and the Israelites weren't called Jews. Those names weren't known yet. There are many notable historians and scholars who maintain the Jebusites are the forebears of the Palestinians. According to the New York University School of Medicine, and the National Academy of Sciences, Middle East Jewish men and Palestinian, Lebanese and Syrian men have the same genetic signature, different from any other non-Jews in the world. Some of those same tribes, and the Canaanites also occupied Judea and Samaria.

We attack the messenger because we don't like the message. Sure, South Africa had and continues to have growing pains,as Israel will continue to have them. As the United States will continue to have. As anywhere will have.I don't live in Israel,nor in the region. I understand racism, and anti-semitism. There is hurt on all sides of the equation. I feel having a Jewish State was perhaps, where I sit. It doesn't matter what I feel, or say. I have little say in the matter. What I don't like is when we open up the dialogue about these issues, we end up finger pointing and name calling. Either you are a Zionist or are completely pro Israel, or you are a jew hater. There seems no middle ground. This must stop. I personally feel, A Jew is at their best when they are wandering. Israel, to me is more of a political creation than a nation state. Would dispersing now, be defeat? Nobody has even broached that question

The orginial inhabitants of Palestine were certainly not Hebrews, even less Kazars or Jews. According to the Bible, the ancestors of the Palestinians are Moabites, Ammonites, Amalakites, Philistines, Canaanites, Midianites, Sidonians etc. All peaceful tribes minding their own business until a murderous and delusional buch of religious fanantics started to rape and pillage the country, resulting in centuries of bloodshed. Until Jesus (a member of this sect) spoke out openly about the evil of their ways, and told them to repent. Otherwise, the forces of law and order would come and destroy their temple and ban the troublemakers from the land. That's what the Bible says. Read it.

Especially considering that Lord Cardigan who crafted the resolution stated that 1967 was only a cease-fire line, not a permanent boundary and Israel has never sat on the Security Council. It's the only country that is ineligible to do so.

frankly, in twenty, fifty years, the pals will still be irrelevant. Israel's growth and defense wont end because non talking, yet demanding Abbas, is non functioning, in fact, both Israel's economy and growth are growing, and will keep growing beyond your wildest dreams. Cities do that, especially in Israel w/ so many persecuted Jews leaving Europe, and other nations who harass Jews. Gaza will be gaza, Israel will be Israel and someday, young palestinians will ask of both and Hamas, "Why". "Why would you refuse to make peace and why condemn our future? The contrast is amazing now, wait til later and see if what I tell you isn't so. And what will the answer be? "We couldn't speak w/ them for they were Jews'? About as brilliant as mud. You will live w/ the consequences of your own fool hearty decisions.

Israel needs no primers of conduct or behavior from whites who systematical murdered anyone in their path to murder, pillage, steal, remove non whites and Jews ( Germany along w/ gypsies, Jehovah's witness, the mentally handicapped, etc. in short, anyone they determined should die) and conquer lands& personal property for profit. Israel is a legally recognized state who's fought for her very existence in her ancestor's land that was established over 3,000 years ago. Many homes and properties were originally owned by Jewish families. Many others were also purchased by Jews. This is another way to 'murder' Judaism, if they could. Their accusations should be taken w/ a grain f salt and remembrance from whence they come. "Real " experts on Judaism......

That's nice. An African American student of mine was murdered this month. In the online comments accompanying an article about him, a number of people made racist comments about this young man's death, such as it is one less burden for the taxpayer. Do manifestations of racism by my fellow Americans disturb me deeply? Yes, they do. Will they cause me self righteously and self congratulatingly to spend my time on Internet discussions proclaiming that far more awful manifestations of deeply institutionalized racism in other countries are somehow less significant to me as a human being, as you do? No.

I had arrived in Virginia less than a year before. I was a student at the "John B. Dey" Elementary school in Princess Anne County Virginia. The entire student body was ordered to a special presentation in the 'cafeterium.' I had attended three schools which had both Cafeteria and Auditorium, which is to say my original view of education was quite conservative. Then at the John B. Dey Elementary school I was shown a slide show - sort of like a power point presentation but usually more intelligent. At that slide show I was told of another land like Virginia where racism was the accepted and dominant system it was South Africa. we were all told that racism was the only way, and that we - every student at the John B. Dey Elementary school, could prevail.. So what can a South African tell someone decent about racism? Don't do it.

The SA government doesn't want its trade with Israel ended. When comments like this make their appearance from time to time it is because of a perceived political need. In this case it appears to be wanting to be on the bandwagon of the Human Rights crowd. South Africans, like Goldstone, are heavily involved and the government has probably been criticized for staying on the sidelines. Once upon a time Mandela wanted to mediate the dispute and he was a heavyweight, now retired. Today's ANC is irrelevant to the Middle East, but has image to maintain, domestically and internationally from time to time, depending on which constituency needs appeasing.

The South African government is historically incorrect. The original inhabitants of Jerusalem were the JEWS. Please read the Bible. you are right but you fail to mention a significant portion stayed behind and converted to Christianity then Islam

While it was pointed out earlier that Jerusalem does not belong to Jordan, it also does Not belong to the israeli's. As stated by the UN Jerusalem was designated a international city under the 1947 UN partition plan. On a religious note, Moses came down from the mount with 2 stone tablets, these tablets contained 10 cammandments 2 of which are Thou shall not kill and Thou shall not Steal. One for the Palestinians and one for the Israeli's

Juliam Tuwim, a known Polish poet and a Jew, explained why he feels himself a Pole: "because my hatred of Polish Fascist is greater than my hatred of Fascist of other nationalities". I am a Jew and an Israeli.

DZ: "Don Boston, you need to cite an international law, not the US law" Whereupon Darth procedes to quote the opinion of various legal eagles, as if a "lawyer's opinion" is "law". However, I can cite The Vienna Convention on the Laws of Treaties. Article 31: ..."A treaty shall be interpreted in good faith in accordance with the ordinary meaning to be given to the terms of the treaty in their context and in the light of its object and purpose"... Article 32: ...."leads to a result which is manifestly absurd or unreasonable.".... Don is right i.e. claiming that a) Res 242 allows Israel to keep some of the West Bank, while also accepting b) "the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory" must lead to a c) manifestly absurd result. The Vienna Convention does not allow that, and since the preamble is UNAMBIGUOUS then the fault must lie in the interpretation you place on the missing "the".

SDHD: "Meanwhile, the authors of the resolution specifically state that it does not require Israel to withdraw from all such territories." Not on the floor of the UNSC, no, they didn't. But the members of the UNSC who did actually debate the meaning of that sentence ON THE DAY OF THE VOTE all stated that they were voting for it on the understanding that it meant a full withdrawal. The USA? Silent. Israel? Silent. UK? Silent. Their silence meant that their "intentions" carry no weight when it comes to working out what that vote in the council actually meant, whereas the explicit statements of the other council members ("it means ALL the territory") carries considerable weight. After all, they were the ones who approved Res 242, not the back-room boys.

as everybody else. Which is why its policies are compared (and, sadly, comparable) to those of Soouth Africa under apartheid.

K: "Every country is sovereign within its own borders." Which must also mean that no country can unilaterally define a shared border, nor can it unilaterally move such a border. k: "The laws that you refer to have no more basis in law than custom." You appear to be unaware that there are two aspects to "international law" 1) The law of treaties 2) International customary law. K: "There has never been a state called Palestine, therefore, there is no justification for calling people who live their "occupied." " How odd, because the Israel High Court of Justice has no problem whatsoever judging the West Bank to be under belligerent occupation, and that the people who live there are subject to the authority of the IDF under the international humanitarian laws that pertain to a military occupation. How odd. Would you like me to quote the actual text, Ki`emli?

used to be a crown jewel in the tourist circuit. Now your travel agent will steer you wide. Beaches choked with debris, streets filthy, a government that barely functions, and nobody of any color venturing outside after dark. And here is someone trying to tell Israel something.

DZ: "Lord Caradon, ".... ... stressed that he left out "the" to allow for minor straightening of the Green Line, and he utterly rejected the idea that this word was left out to allow Israel to swallow great swathes of territory in the West Bank. Which is why he insisting on adding "Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war", despite frantic lobbying by Abba Eban to have that line removed from the draft text. DZ: "Elihu Lauterpacht"... ... wouldn't happen to be Jewish, and a life-long zionist, by any chance? DZ: "Stephen Schwebel"... ... wouldn't happen to be Jewish, and a life-long zionist, by any chance?

When you and others who think along the same lines ask the question about ow many Palestinians live in Gilo, my quetion is: How many Israeli Jews live in any arab country? If any Israeli Jew asked for a building permit in downtown Ramallah, how long before the palis stopped laughing, would a Jew be given a chance to live amont their 'peaceful' neighbors? In the meantime, remember, that Israeli Arabs and Christians and muslims may live in any part of Israel (Mea Shearim being an exception to even secular Jews). Stop worrying about non-Jews in Gilo, and think about the apartheid of Jews when it comes to every arab country surrounding her.

The original inhabitants of Jerusalem were the Canaanites, not the Jews. The Jews (Hebrews) left Egypt and invaded and conquered the city. Please read the Bible yourself. There is a pretty good account of it at the Jewish Virtual Library. Not even the Jews believe what you said. And on top of that, what happened thousands of years ago doesn't have squat to do with the modern world.

There is not yet a substantial body of international law on the interpretation of UN resolutions. In any case involving international law, the laws of any country may be cited and given weight according to the reasoning and concordance with the laws of other countries. The legal principles I cited are fundamental and are unlikely to be contradicted by the law of any democratic country. The drafter of a resolution's thoughts are not relevant, especially when the resolution expressly states its intent. The SC vote made 242 law, not Caradon. YOur comments about agressors are irrelevant. There is nothing in the US charter or any UN resolution making any such distinction. Its funny that you counter the well established law of a land truly ruled by law with random opinions of inidividuals. I cannot claim to be an expert in British or other European law, but I would be shocked if they did not apply the same rules of statutory construction.

First of all, that is not entirely accurate. Some of the drafters of 242 have admitted to deliberately creating ambiguity, Nonethless, when a statute or resolution expressly states its intent, no court in the US - and probably not the world - has any interest in the private mutterings of drafters. The drafters did not make the resolution binding. It was made binding by the council voting as a whole with stated intent that overrides anything in the mids of the authors of the language, Any first year law student would understand this. Republican stalwart Antonin Scalia has argued vehemently for years that the comments of committees and bill authors should not be considered under any circumstances. That is particuarly clear and obvious when the resolution states its intent in a way that makes it clear that the Israeli argument has no merit.

Than it was in SA. It (lack of building permits,evictions from and demolitions of, houses belonging to non-Jews)are carried out piecemeal a few a month. Simultaneously housing for Jews is being built at a massive rate. In the WB there are different legal systems, roads and even different car registration numbers for Jews and non-Jews. If thats not apartheid than what is? Its a pity that reps of SA Jewery don't stand up against this abhorrant policy and support equality and human rights. There are many just Jews who speak out against current Israeli Gov policy.

religion during the last 2000 years so they became Christian or Muslims.

sfg-you're 5000 yr argument (if it can be called such) is illogical. Yes, (recent) history does have some influence but bringing up 1100AD at 2009 is, well, just silly actually. How many UN Member States were around 5000 yrs ago?

.... The City of Jerusalem shall be established as a corpus separatum under a special international regime and shall be administered by the United Nations. The Trusteeship Council shall be designated to discharge the responsibilities of the Administering Authority on behalf of the United Nations....It shall remain in force in the first instance for a period of ten years...The residents of the City shall be then free to express by means of a referendum their wishes as to possible modifications of the regime of the City. BASED OF RESOLUTION 181 THE CITY WOULD BELONG TO NEITHER....

Most observers see Israel for she is...a colonial expansionist state which refuses to negotiate borders...fixed permanent borders... Non Jews in Jerusalem are treated as second or third class citizens, their homes routinely destroyed for lacking proper permits...permits which are never ever granted. Slowly...Israel is slipping into pariah state status...and rightly so.

As much as Israel bashers like you like to quote international law, it's really a myth because there is no international sovereign. Every country is sovereign within its own borders. The laws that you refer to have no more basis in law than custom. Furthermore, if you want to continue to harp on "international law" that territory was captured from Jordan, not "Palestine." There has never been a state called Palestine, therefore, there is no justification for calling people who live their "occupied."

Lord Caradon, the British ambassador who submitted to the Security Council what was to become the accepted version of Resolution 242, publicly declared afterward on repeated occasions that there was no intent to demand an Israeli withdrawal to the 1967 lines. The great authority in internationa law, Elihu Lauterpacht, has drawn the distinction between unlawful territorial change by an aggressor and lawful territorial change in response to an aggressor. The case of a war of self-defense in response to aggression is a very different matter. This distinction was further made by Stephen Schwebel, who would later become the legal advisor of the U.S. Department of State and then serve as President of the International Court of Justice at The Hague.

"Considering that Jerusalem was originally part of Jordan" Really? On which planet?

It is all the same. Whether it is laws in Israel, Arab countries against non Muslims, or old South African laws. You can't debate by saying their weed patch is worse than ours. There will always be those who will justify any means to get the end result and there is another group that vehemetly opposes that mode of thinking. When segregation occurs by force or law and not natural economics or choice it is not worthy of debating.

Maybe so, but the jews also have no claim to the city either, Considering that Jerusalem was originally part of Jordan and clearly in violation of international law the jews continue to build.

"I would say that the greatest experts on Apartheid are Mandela, Tutu, Kasrils, and Slovo." Maybe they're just experts on being, "anti-White." There's a civil war in the region between the Jews and the Arabs. You anti-Isreali numbskulls seem to keep forgetting about that.

"to not require that Israel withdraw from all of such territories negates the stated intent of the resolution." Meanwhile, the authors of the resolution specifically state that it does not require Israel to withdraw from all such territories.

"The Jews arrived in the Israeli area sometime around 3,000 BC." Nonsense! The first distinctly Jewish kingdom was that of Josiah in the sixth century BCE. The Bible is not history, there was no Israelite migration into Canaan, no unified monarchy, no King David, no Solomon. The Jews were just a group of Canaanite tribes. You should read books by Finkelstein & Silbermann, or T L Thompson or Zeev Herzog, but you probably won't. Incidentally, many of today's Palestinians are direct descendants of the Jews of 2,000 years ago. Ben Gurion admitted this and modern DNA research confirms it. In any case, to say that Americans or Poles or Chinese have the right to land in the Middle East because people of the same religion lived there once upon a time is ridiculous! LOL!

The Jews arrived in the Israeli area sometime around 3,000 BC. The Philistines/Canaanites who lived in the Israeli area before the Israelites left or were absorbed by Israel. Afterwards, the Jewish state was subjugated by a long string of overlords, including, but not limited to, Assyrians, Persians, Romans, Christians, Muslims, etc. Jews still lived in Israel. The Romans moved out some Jews but not all. The Muslims came to Israel as a conquering force of outsiders. Jews and Muslims defended Jerusalem when the Crusaders arrived around 1100 AD. Obviously, Jews lived in Israel at this time. To say that Israel was Jew free until after the birth of Zionism or the end of WW2 is THE BIG LIE.

South African experts on Apartheid have dispelled the slander that Apartheid exists in Israel. Bitter pill for you all to swallow. http://www.jcpa.org/text/apartheid.pdf

Not so. Prior to the end of WWII, the customs of law that now determine such matters were not in existence. In the wake of WWII, international law prohibiting the acquisition of land by war came into being. Israelis are lucky that this law did not exist in 1948, when the State of Israel was created. It now supports the existence of Israel proper just as it protects Pal rights to the WB and Gaza. Besides, if current international law were aplied to Texas, it would be owned by Native Americans, not Mexicans. Its too late to do anything about this, but the theft of Palesstine is still a work in progress in violation of valid international law issued shortly after the 1967 war (Res 242). I cannot undo the crimes of my ancestors, but that doesnt prevent me from trying to stop others from acting as they did. One need not condone theft and murder simply because one's ancestors were thieves and murderers. Moral improvement is a good thing.

The second sentence in Res. 242 "[e]mphasiz[es] "the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war." It is a fundamental rule of statutory construction that a statute must not be interpreted to negate its own stated intent. US Supreme Court in NYSS v Dublino, 413 US 405 (1973). Interpretation of the directive requiring "Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict," para 1(i),to not require that Israel withdraw from all of such territories negates the stated intent of the resolution. If Israel is permitted to retain any such occupied land, it will have acquired territory by war. Instead of withdrawing as required by law, Israel not only occupied the land but actively encouraged and its forces enabled the creation of settlements by its citizens. This failure to do as the law required was, by definition, illegal. Thus, the settlements are illegal as fruits of a poisonous tree, Wong Sun v. US, 371 U.S. 471 (1963).

The Hispanic ppl are the fastest growing population in the USA, so when they demand Texas and California back???? :-p

bbs news from north carolina, mark lincoln from texas, don boston from texas, lewiston from maine,r cummings (a coward who doesn't announce his location)...all of you are hypocrites..why? you're all living on stolen land...land you genocidally ethnically cleansed of it's rightful historical owners...the native indians..why are you living where you live? you should move...better yet, your indians, who you stuck on crappy reservations, should start to send their kids with suicide belts on to bomb you, or even better yet, they should rocket your cities...how about that you slimy cretins? israel is historically a home to both the jews and the other tribal peoples, most of whom were nomadic and ceased to exist long ago...In truth, the pals have rights ONLY to gaza ...nowehere else if you really want to be honest...but you americans are the height of hypocracy...and the truth is, you ARE jew haters and you hide behind weak arguments because you have nothing else to use. cowards.

1: China(South Africa wouldnt let the Dalai Lama in just to appease China) 2: Sudan(Bashir Gemayel has not owned up for the Janjaweed attacks on Darfurians and SA supports him in not getting prosecuted) 3: Zimbabwe(Mugabe is starving half his own ppl who flood SA,s borders and end up getting torched alive by locals) 4: Venezuala(Chavez is insane) 5: Iran(Autocracy under Mullahs) 6: Saudi Arabia(No womens rights) What did you all expect???

No UN partition plan for the lands in dispute between the Palestinians and Israelis has ever been agreed upon or implemented. They are completely irrelevant. The relevant int'l law is Res 242. The second sentence in Res. 242 "[e]mphasiz[es] "the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war." It is a fundamental rule of statutory construction that a statute must not be interpreted to negate its own stated intent. US Supreme Court in NYSS v Dublino, 413 US 405 (1973). Interpretation of the directive requiring "Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict," para 1(i),to not require that Israel withdraw from all of such territories negates the stated intent of the resolution. If Israel is permitted to retain any such occupied land, it will have acquired territory by war. E Jerusalem has never lawfully been a part of Israel. Efforts to shift demographics to steal land is a tactic well known to SA.

Citizen, According to the Bible, the original inhabitants of Jerusalem were Hitites, Philistines and other such tribes. According to the Bible, the land was occupied when the Jews got there. Regardless, I suspect that the land claims based on residency in that era is no longer valid. It is more appropriate, legally, to examine residency from 20, 50 or perhaps even 100 years. Much before that would merely be a fruitless maze of thousands of purchases, wars, thefts, etc. Peace. Stephen

Israel should be proud for being criticize by the supporters of Mugabe. They better concentrate on their job home. World leading in rapes,murders,robberies,and car hijackings. A woman born in SA has a greater chance of being raped than learning how to read.

why more and more settlements still?? please open the israel map and look at the historical changes through the years from 1947.... its something unbeliveable continiously growing israel and reverse for palestiania... and stil askinh who wants peace and who doesnt? honestly?

What kind of Jewish State do we want to be? I made Aliyah in 1974 and returned to live in the States in 1990. Since then I have witnessed much of the various peace processes and have remained a Zionist and after some post 9-11 wavering. I have remained in favor of peace with the Arabs throughout because I believe peace will help solidify Israel's continuity as a Jewish homeland. The occupation is destroying Israel so we must end it as soon as possible. That's my bottom line and I believe many Jews feel the same way. Apartheid? Not quite but damn close and that's not the Israel I love.

Members of my family, who originally came from Poland and Lithuania, have all left South Africa after 1994. Hard to figure out why?

100% Zionist... what may i ask are you still doing here... I suggest you then leave, we true South Africans don't need you here!! Make your wish come true....

Texas should be liberated by its illegal American occupation and given back to Mexico, the rightful owners.

All the pro-Israelis I've seen post responses always use the word 'logic' and 'illogical' when it comes to criticism against Israel. * ex-south african: "the south african regime is obviously anti-semitic given the repeated illogical accusations against israel." (among others from other articles) * Then people like 'Cynic' talk about what other Arab countries are doing to Jews in their countries. but where's the logic that everything Israel does is automatically right and just in their eyes and anyone who opposes it is automatically labeled anti-semitic? Not only that, but virtually the whole world is against many things Israel is doing and yet it doesnt seem to resonate with anyone there. Its just a 'they all hate us' mentality. That seems far from logical to me. ppl like Cynic are quick to point out wrongs of others but have no capability of looking in the mirror. sounds like blind following to me...

Claiming a piece of land is your because "God says so" and because you are the "Chosen People" is no different to the fundementalist Islamic preaching that goes on in Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc. Can someone please explain the difference now between Israel and other fundementalist Islamic nations? Having a few clubs, bars, and lavish resturaunts doesnt make your nation (or better yet the mentality of your people) anymore democratic or "western".

YES Sadly plenty of jews & non jews do marry in Israel quite legally every year. The only problems your going to run into are not legal ones but religious because your of different faiths and thats a problem that occurs if jews want to marry non jews worldwide because jewish law says jews must only marry jews. Land owned by the private trust the JNF is off limits to arabs because JNF was set up to buy land for jews and to be used by jews. State owned land cannot be treated as off limits to arabs unless there are specific reasons. In theory settlements can be lived in by israeli arabs as well if they choose ( only palestinians have no right to live there but in theory all Israelis can ) but the culture in Israel is jews like to live together in some towns and arabs live together in others. Also there are some Israeli arabs living in Gilo they are a minority but there are arabs living there.

was an Egyptian.

Why don't u call the people who were living in Jerusalem before or after the times of the bible the "original" inhabitants? The city is older than the bible.. I remember a crazy Austrian guy who was claiming that all Scandinavia was German because our ancestors lived there. Guess, what happened to him?

it is after all a fact.

the jewish housing units in jerusalem but not the 5000 arab housing units planned in jerusalem.

...for arabs in jerusalem but just the 900 jewish housing units in gilo?

Was this announcement of the approval of the building of 900 housing units in Gilo, which reportedly spent four years sitting in a drawer, especially timed to divert attention from the really bad stuff happening outside the Old City's walls to their east, south and north? Has the implantation of Jews in the surrounding Arab villages (never part of Jerusalem at all) that have been incorporated into "United Jerusalem" become THE priority? It's logical. If building in Gilo, which was in Jordan before 1967 although not the site of a village, is not settlement expansion because it displaced no-one, how to separate it from the other places in which inhabitants ARE being displaced that Israel has also co-opted into the vastly swollen United Jerusalem that reaches the outskirts of Ramallah? Whatever else it is, this government is not stupid.

Whenever you have an underdog against a powerful enemy and also an enemy who believe that land that enemy occupies belongs to them so they start shouting apartheid. 1) Gilo is a legitimate naighborhood of Jerusalem, it has a population of 30 - 40 thousand and has been in existence and growing since the early 70s. Even Arafat never had much to say about Gilo. Now though suddenly after over 30 years and nobody complaining South Africa comes out and says building homes there is an act of apartheid. 2) Palestinians have been evicted from houses built without permits, even jews who have built without permits have had the same problem. There have sometimes been compulsory purchases for certain projects that goes on worldwide The article also mentions how some are removed because their leases have expired. In South Africa do landlords not have the authority to kick out tenants whose leases have expired? BUILDING IN EAST, WEST, NORTH OR SOUTH OF JERUSALEM IS NOT APARTHEID.

You state as if ?inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war? were a clearly defined matter. You keep referring to the occupation as illegal. Please cite where in the Res 242 or any other UNSC resolution the occupation is referred to as illegal. The language used is that of ?having no legal validity?. As a lawyer, you should know the difference. Please do not invoke the tired argument of the applicability of the 4-th Geneva. The 4-th Geneva limits its applications to situations where a power seized a territory from its previous legal owner. The following 1979 UNSC convention # 446 defined the applicability of the 4-th Geneva in the following language: ?Affirming once more that the Geneva Convention RELATIVE TO THE PROTECTION OF CIVILIAN PERSONS in time of war, of August 12 1949 is applicable to the Arab territories occupied by Israel since 1967 including East Jerusalem. Again, there is no mention of illegality of occupation. You have a weak argument, counselor.

'in 1967 there was no world Palestinian, Arafat made up the word from Phillistine.' That is historically inaccurate. Modern Palestine was created by the British Mandate in 1920. The country was named Palestine and the inhabitants, predominantly Arab, were called Palestinians. Just the same way that people in Kenya were called Kenyans and those in Nigeria Nigerians and likewise around the globe. Palestinians were there 28 years before Israelis, as there was no such state as Israel until 1948.

Apartheid means, seperate boys and girls bathrooms. Extrapolate that into society and you have Apartheid. However, Apartheid has become synonym with Racism, which South Africa calls Xenophobia(because its black on black). The right to govern one self (Apartheid) is good, but if you can ride the Racism card it becomes bad. Racism in SA was never about colour, but values, but because the handle on the apparent disagreement was colour, it became a Race card. This in a nutshell is the problem, Israel fighting for their right to existence(Apartheid~good), but different values of Palestinians pose a threat(cultural differences ~ related to as Racism). So, to the lay person Israel will always be evil, as words are blurred to infer the writers bias.

organization in the world as proof. Then in the middle ages when Jews were shunned by every country in Europe and cast as dhimmis in the Arab/Muslim world would prove that the majority is correct? By your logic the inquisition was justified. Ever hear of the tyranny of the masses? HRW is funded with Saudi money think there might be a conflict of interest here?

population, that population has been decreasing. The only country where the Christian population has increase in actual numbers is ... you guested it the Apartheid state of Israel. Funny how very few voices are raised against the Arab states who have relegated women to 2nd class, abuse those of other religions etc. and yet there is so much criticism of Israel.

1. In the state of Israel Jews, Arabs, Druze and Christians have equal rights and can own land. 2. In Palastinian areas (Gaza+West Bank) Jews CANNOT live in OR own property. Which is the apartheid state following an apartheid idiology ??

All these spokesmen focused on Gilo in order not to talk about Silwan, Ras Al-Amoud, .... Devious. Don't be fooled. Stop ElAd, stop house demolitions in East Jerusalem. A total moratorium on these to be included in the settlement freeze packaged AND ENFORCED. Nothing less will do.

what next legalise prosecution of Zimbabwe refugees ?

The Bible is not a reliable history book. Much of it is myth deliberately created to bolster the politics of the times when it was being written. The original inhabitants of Jerusalem? Depending on your cut-off point, that could be the Romans, the Greeks, the Persians, the Arabs, the Phoenicians, the Hittites, the Canaanites ... and many others. BTW, the original inhabitants of Washington were Native Americans. That doesn't give them any legal or property rights nowadays, so why should the Jews be treated any differently in the Middle East?

You said tha palestinians were unexisting before 1967?. These imply that the region of Palestina,being ruled by British Government, was empty. Please study again history and remember why Jews abandoned that region centuries before.

Gilad no. 1, nothing stopping you from leaving SA. Go to the Zionist Federation they will help you. The SA govt has no right to even mention this, most black South Africans live in dire poverty, in shacks, no running water or electricity. The SA govt should fix up their own problems first before condemning another country. Their hospital service is practically non existent and as for the forthcoming games they cannot even finish the railroad in time. Ex South African

Michael, the 5% that is not in the government's ownership is PRIMARILY in the ownership of Israel's Arabs or the various Catholic churches. I'd venture that all of Um Al Fachem is owned by Arabs, explaining why Jews can't purchase there. Though neither Israel nor Um Al Fachem have laws that prevent Arabs or Jews from residing in a place, and while Israel has made such restrictions in Jewish National Funds lands illegal, the FACT is that Arab cities don't welcome Jews any more than Jewish ones welcome Arabs. It's a mutual incompatibility that demands a two state solution, not pointless and tendentious incriminations that make of Jews villains and Arabs victims just because this serves the narrative some find most cozy to their preconceptions.

Despite the Egyptian army attempts to take it

"The original inhabitants of Jerusalem were the JEWS. Please read the Bible" http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Archaeology/canaan.html //The long history of Jerusalem began well before it was captured by King David and made into the Capital of the People of Israel 3,000 years ago. Archeaological findings indicate the existence of a settlement in Jerusalem in the 3rd millenium BCE. The first mention of the city in historic sources begins in the 2nd millenium BCE. //

Palestinians living in the "undivided capital" are limited to where they can build or buy but not Israelis. Can a Palestinian Jerusalemite buy, lease or build in West J'lem? NO. i.e. Apartheid-like laws

In all the copies I have, including Revised Standard and King James, David conquered Jerusalem and took it over from people who were definitively not Jewish. They weren't even Israelites. What version are you telling us to read? Doesn't yours include the Books of Samuel?

In theory, yes...Only you will have so many problems.I know so many foreigners -women ( not jewish, but not arabs) who have converted to the judaism only because of the practical reasons.(In their hearts it is different) So I can imagine how difficult it would be for the arabs to be accepted and to have same rights.

I'm a South African, deeply ashamed of our governments "strange" and "biased" statement out of the blue! Only look at our crime statistics, xenofobia against other Africans, reversed racism in the form of "black empowerment" and you will understand where the statement came from. Our government should rather stay out of the media all together! Not all South Africans are against Israel. Koto rather focus to get your own neigbourhoud in Bloemfontein in order - go and read your Bible - you will find all the wisdom and truth you need in the Torah (first 5 books)!!! Some good advice: "Don't speak of things you know little about..." (you might embarrass yourself?)

In south Africa it's true apartheid between whites and blacks is finished,what is worse it is now black against black. South Africa is deeply concerned about the situation,I bet who made this statement is not sleeping at night. I say to the south African government,put your house in order before criticizing others and you have alot to put in order.

There is no state or municipal law preventing Jews from aquire property or lease in Um Al Fachem but 95% of land in public property is practically out of reach by Israeli Arab citizens. Yes, the Supreme Court was against this practice as a result of one man petition but the reality remains the same and only very few not Jews have succeded to overcome all the obstacles and get the lease of publicly owned land.

You may insult our government how much you want, but that is not going to solve your problrms. Remember, you are still going to talk to the Palestinians, whether in twenty or fifty years time. We all know that we cannot predict the future, even the political landscape at that time. What kind of a country (neighbourhood) are you going to leave your future generations? FOOD FOR THOUGHT!

When I remember back in 1996-1997 all the bus bombings that were going on, and all the voices saying that it's the Palestinian's obligation to convince us they want peace and not our own to convince ourselves, voices like that of Peres or Beilin said "don't give the enemies of peace a voice at the table - we can't stop negotiations even though these terrorist attacks make us want to stop". THAT is a demonstration of patience without preconditions that the Palis should try to match. Even when our lives were at stake, even when nobody amongst the Palis who can recognize that anybody's got rights here other than them, even when they define their state by what they can prevent us from being rather than what they can be, we continued with it. Compared to that, niggling over what you consider preconditions is dumb, when a quickly negotiated settlement can do FAR more to ensure the boundaries Palis want than sitting on their hands complaining. It's a pretext for their preference to do nadda

Ask the same question about Jews in Ramallah or Um Al Fachem and you see things aren't as simple as you wish to imply them to be. Most Jews do not purchase land, they purchase leases to the rights to be on land from the state, which owns upwards of 95% of the property in Israel. According to an Israeli Supreme Court decision, the state may not discriminate in who these leases are sold to, and though such discrimination is nevertheless rife both in Arab cities against Jews, and in Jewish cities against Arabs, this merely begs the question of why we shouldn't have separate states - as we cannot govern together even in common cities to the degree you see separate ethnicities living together in Vancouver. Yet, there are still quite a few Arab families in places like Pisgat Zeev - and that this is more common than Jewish families are in Um Al Fachem (is there a single Jewish family there? Doubt it) is testament against the assertion that Jews are reflexively bigoted.

Are balck and white people (sorry: Jews and not Jews) alowed to marry in Isreal?

"in 1967 there was no world Palestinian, Arafat made up the word from Phillistine." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine now, tell us again how Arafat made up the word in 1967, thanks.

ther is no doubt the pandemic of total stupidity is worldwide !

Jewish populations. Today, in Yemen Jews are fleeing leaving their property behind due to murders, attempts at forced conversion, death threats and assaults. This is not new. Over the last 70 years at least 850,000 Jews have taken flight from 23 Arab countries. It is not acceptable to be Jewish or practice being Jewish in Arab countries. If this is not apartheid I don't know what is. In the meantime, both East and West Jerusalem, and all other areas of Israel are places where Arabs own land and live in peace. South Africa is projecting its tainted history on the wrong party.

No Arab village was ever on the sight of Gilo, there are several villages close by which have not been touched by Gilo's growth. Anybody equating this to apartheid activities, such as Sophiatown or District six, is historically and factually incorrect. Maybe the SA govt should stick to facts and concentrate on Zimbabwe that truly needs her help.

Why is South Africa and other countries so ignorant. don't they know that 20%of Israel are Arabs and they even have representitives in parliment. South Africans got rid of so many whites in South Africa that they can't speak as they do. Israel is not trying to rid itself of its citizens. Israel did not occupy Palestine, they occupied Jordan and Egypt, in 1967 there was no world Palestinian, Arafat made up the word from Phillistine.

"It is highly misleading not to take cognizance of Israel's repeated calls to renew peace talks unconditionally and without deferral. " BUT... we will continue building houses in progress BUT... we exclude the continued building of schools, etc. BUT... no building freeze in East Jerusalem BUT... we think everyone in the world is blind and afraid to disagree, because then we WILL call them anti-semite and smother them with past history, dug out whenever it suits us, but is not allowed to be mentioned by others because then it is a mockery.... Jeezzzz.

as a former anti apartheid activist and a refugee from South Africa, I am ashamed of the SA govt with its cheap propaganda that has no basis to it. The Rainbow nation has become a nation of thugs, corruption, and lies. This is not what I fought for.Shame .

How many Israeli Arab citizens or Palestine residents live in Gilo? Are Palestinians allowed to purchase property in Gilo?

home land

"why Israel is always judged to a standard different from that of the rest of the world." Israel has been exempt from world standards for 40 years by the US actively neutralizing UN efforts to enforce international law applicable to the rest of the world. The West Bank, East Jerusalem and all other lands occupied by Israel in 1967 should be liberated from Israeli occupation just as Kuwait was liberated from the Iraqis and for the same reason. The "inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war" is the primary guiding principle clearly applied by UN Res. 242. The purported ambiguity in the clause ordering Israel to withdraw does not affect the validity of this guiding principle and is clarified thereby. This principle is a just solution to endemic warfare agreed to by the World in the wake of WWII. There was no such agreement in 1948, so the existence of Israel proper is not an issue. However, the new world order was established long before 1967.

The South African government is historically incorrect. The original inhabitants of Jerusalem were the JEWS. Please read the Bible.

Someone should remind the South Africans that Jerusalem never belonged to any Arab Nation. Research UN partition plan. The Pals are always trying to claim somehow that Jeruslem belong to them but it does not. I wish that South africa focus on why so many africans are so anti-semetic.

"It is simply unjust to call the neighborhood of Gilo a 'settlement,' or to conjure a phantasmagorical 'campaign to evict Palestinians." Is Israel delusional? Or does it just think everyone's an idiot? "

...even the convoluted language of the denial itself is indicative of the total disconnect from reality in Israel. South Africa, Goldstone, all the reports from every humanitarian organization on the planet, the pronouncements by even the friendliest of government, even the US, that all of the colonies are illegitimate. They cannot all simply be lying. There is no grand conspiracy. It's time for Israel to face reality and look in the mirror. All of the things that have been predicted for the last ten years are happening because Israel and its "supporters" simply never listened and faced that reality. One can only wonder just how bad it will be tomorrow, and the day after, and the day after...

Perhaps Israel should get the message. The rest of the world has a different take on the Israeli claim of a God given right to colonialism and oppression, and when it comes to illegal settlements in occupied territory, then Israel is judged more by it's violation of article 49 of the fourth Geneva Convention, rather than it's religious fantasies - and South Africa has come to join the party!

is preaching to Israel how to run its affairs... Unexplainable paradox..I guess underdeveloped, unruly Countries are in business of teaching highly developed countries how to break the laws and as such create fastest way to lawless societies...Give me a freaking break...

...or moral double bookkeeping? The crimes of the Boers do not automatically equate to the crimes of (or against) the Zionists. As a dyed-in-the-wool Zionist, and outside of being such, I fail to see how upholding Tort and legal deeds as being morally equivalent to South African apartheid can influence anyone but the most ignorant of history, or the most biased. If you were of Arab decent displaced by the establishment of Israel in 1948, I could perfectly understand, and commiserate, with your biases, but as an outsider judging from your bubble of ignorance within someone elses bubble...? Come on now, even internet news junkies can see through that one.

... land of apartheid, and don't try to leverage this term in total ignorance and in a pathetic, disingenuous manner regarding Israel.

the apartheid regime in SA lasted as long as it did thanks to Arab and other Islamic world oil sales (Iran-even after the shah and Brunei)-- which Mandela and Tutu and all the anti-apartheid leadership were aware of all this, but they pretended it wasn't happening. I wonder why...

Apartheid is apartheid,you always seem to find a different terminology to defend your actions against other. Expanding settlements does not mean you want peace, it simply means you are stealing as much as the Americans will allow, then you blame the Palestinians for not accepting your terms for peace.

the south african regime is obviously anti-semitic given the repeated illogical accusations against israel. jews, get out now before it is too late. leave south africa's bigoted government to stew in the resultant brain and economic drain.

I wish i could just leave this place. My heart is zionist 100%. I think south africa has one of the strongest zionist jewish communities. In my shul we sing hatikva!!! SA is full of stupid people who think they know it all