S.Y. Agnon's relatives: The E. Jerusalem Nashashibis

Perhaps if Agnon's decendants wanted to convert to Judaism without any duress and live among Jews as Jews in every way, perhaps their suituation might be different. And let's not forget, Israel IS the homeland for Jews. In my opinion, those who don't want to be Jewish, should'nt be there (to live in Israel).

This is not a piece of "yellow" journalism, Amal Nashashibi (you mean "tabloid," don't you, dear?). Esther Wiener's descendents are entitled to Israeli citizenship, whether she remarried and ceased to be a Nashashibi (a big deal), or not. Her offspring are still Jewish according to Halakha, even if it displeases you to recognize the fact. This is the kind of racism that is typical of the "underdog," and exists in equal measure among the Sephardi Jews. They are the ones who claim to be discriminated against, but woe betide anyone who presumes to marry one of them - oy, save us from the hard-done-by Sephardi mother-in-law.

What you say is fine and dandy and probably true except that these descendents want to descend on Israel, a Jewish country when their allegience is strictly Muslim . Can Israel really trust that they would be loyal to a Jewish nation when their Muslim ties are so agressively anti Israel?

I lived in Israel in the middle 1950s . I remember attending parties in Haifa where Arabs were present. Come to think of it, only Arab men were---no Arab women. I even remember getting a ride from an Arab back to my home. I also remember that one of the guards in my Social Service office in Tel Aviv was an Arab. His home was Lod but the office was in South T.A.

She sppke Araabic to them because the nice ecumenical family probably would not allow her to speak Hebrew. For the same reason that she had to destroy the candy wrappers.

Now that you've debased Israel for not embracing these products of Jewish/Muslim intermarriage. Tell us now how many marriages were there where the man was Jewish and the woman Muslim and she converted to Judaism? Proably none because she would have been killed probably by her own brothers or father.

this is the only way to solve the arab israeli conflict really. ideally you'd convert most of the palestinians to judaism and then you'd have no more conflict. But also, those with a Jewish mother should be allowed into Israel period, regardless of what religion they claim to be. THey're still Jews, no matter what.

I find this Aliyah is radiculus, you uproot jews from their homelands. An American Jewish is more American than being Israeli. Leave the jews live their lif with the other religions. Stop creating ghettos, leave the jews to live and share their dreams in their homelands. Why a French Jewish shoudl leave France and go to live in Israel? It's uprooting the jewish culture from its roots in its origin each in his country.

I don't agree with you Amal, Esther has the right to keep the name of her children and no one has the right to prevent her to use the name Nashsahibi. YOu should recognise that she is the mother of Nashashisibi Children. I'm glad to hear about the marriage of Esther and Jawad happened in Palestine before the creation of the state of Israel. I hope more coexistance between Palestinians and Israelis and why not marriage. It's allowed in Islam, Christianism and Jeudaism. Whe we prevent it? We are humans even if we think in different logics. The love is the normal and the violence is the exception.

Having Jewish Mothers has little to do with the Law of Return. During the 1st-2nd Commonwealths til 70 CE - Jewish status depended on the inheritance laws of fathers defending land - making sure our children's I.D. was related to a political force under the law. Money/inheritance makes progeny into a certainty. With the loss of the State, only the mother knows her child and hence the identity of the landless Jew depended on mothers not fathers. The Law of Return is a non-religious/racial asylum law of the Modern State of Israel, that insituted thislaw as an answer to Naziism that declared one a Jew til the 10th generation. Hence: our Law of Return is for one who claims to be persecuted because of being a Jew or descended from a Jew to the 2nd or 3rd degree who has not embraced another religion. We Jews in our Kol Nidrei have declared that even one who changed his religion outwardly to escape persecution is still Jewish. That's one up on the Law of Return.

yes and no. yes, a jew remains halakhically jewish even after conversions. but not necessarily for aliyah: esther's grand-children would not be regarded as jews under the law of return. they would have to undergo a hashava laYahadut, and then the consideration of whether or not they would be eligible for aliyah would be up to the ministry of interior (50/50 outcome). they would have to explain how and why they feel a connection to the jewish people, a need to "return," and bring in papers about esther's burial etc. and their link to her. so no, a jewish grandmother who converted is not a free card for aliyah.

Everything Haaretz says should be taken as suspect unless proven otherwise.

My understaning of halachah is that you can not convert out of Judaism. That is, if you are born a Jew, convert, and then renounce your new religion, you are still a Jew. Is that correct from an Orthodos perspective?

My Grand Mothers late Uncle was married to a Palestinian Jewish lady from Safad. In 1948 they were both running with four children for their lives from west Jerusalem, across the Noterdam Hotel, and some Haganah Terrorists were shooting all over, until one of them Just noticed that he was shooting at his aunt and cousins. He stopped shooting, and managed to hide them discretly not to let his Haganah commrades notice that he knows them, and after a brief calm, he helped them cross to the old city through the new gate where they proceeded with their lives as refugees. The Jewish Lady remained a refugee, died and was burried in Lybia in 1969 where her husband used to work. Her children and Grand children are all over the world living like typical Palestinains.

... for making it clear why it is so difficult for Jewish people to live in peace with the Palestinians. Luckily there are also Khalid and Indrayaja to give us another view.

You must have a Jewish Mother “And Not Convert to Another Religion”. If you Convert, You Have To Convert Back or You Are Not A Jew.

A Jewish Author’s Niece converted to Islam to marry a Moslem and when he got tired of her he threw her away, so she converted back again to marry a Jew but was never really accepted again. She apparently did not take either religion or herself seriously. If my Niece converted to a religion that required her to Smite Infidels, I would shun her too.

The responses to this one are amusing. Everyone is looking at the story through their own prism, whether that prism be prejudiced, against or neutral on the subject of iner-marriage etc. Truth be told, this is a story about one woman, over which Agnon had no control, who made her own choice. I personally believe that intermarriage reduces the number of Jews (not a good thing collectively) but is really no one's business but the person who is inter-marrying (they have absolute freedom of choice on the matter). But the article's heading referred to a "dark secret". Yet the body of the article didn't refer to any "secret" or anyone trying to keep a "secret" let alone a dark one. So what was the dark secret?

Why is it that Mr. Murray is constantly and consistently taking issue with the prejudice directed at Jews in any Haaretz forum and finds no reasons to acknowledge any of it as legitimate. I suppose in his sterile Catholic world of the myopic zombies things he cant relate to are not legit. Why then does he spend so much time on a Jewish website. What's with the fascination or is it hatred ?

I love the headline to the link ön the front page to this story "The family of the Poland born Jewish Nobel laureate had kept a dark secret" What was her "dark secret". That she had Palestinians relatives. If being related to a Palestinian is a "dark secret" I think it speaks volumes about the hateful racism endemic in Israeli society. I'm sure if a newspaper called having Jewish relatives a "dark secret"you'd be deafened by shrieks of anti-Semitism. Then again Israel applies the most appalling double standards when it comes to themselves.

In Egypt there were also Jewish women mostly, not men, who married Moslems or Coptic Christians. The children always were Moslem or Christian and most of them hid the fact that their mothers or grandmothers were Jewish.

My mother arrived in Tel Aviv in 1940. She was very good friends with 2 Arab brothers (platonically) but friendships with Arabs were frowned on and it became difficult as the 1948 war approached.

I agree with Amal. In fact, I am not sure that Ester was ever a Nashashibi. I think that she was a disposable womb that got traded in 1955 when the warranty ran out

Please, all look at your articles and tell yourself why they are full of hate. Typically responses begin with incitment by a pro-Jewish reader, followed by a radical response by a Palestinian, then justification of hate, and more hate. The Israeli version: you did this to us, so now we do it to you ...there are 1000 arab countries to absorb you; then the Palestinian version: you are a systemic lier. The reader is better off avoiding such discussion.

"Those with a Jewish grandmother qualify for Aliya" Not if they have Arab fathers and are themselves Muslims or Christians. And i know that for sure.

"Similarly, some of Agnon`s descendants may end up being heroic shaheeds, blowing up their cousins in Israel." ...cause all Muslims are of course potential suicide terrorists!

If they divorced in 1955, so the eldest child should have been no more than 15 years old. How come that the children didn't move with their mother to the west part and weren't brought up as Israelis? Also why didn't she speek Hebrew to them - only Arabic?

What lovely pictures of Esther, her first husband Jawad and their granddaughter Nivin. I wonder how readers would react if Esther's open-minded father had invited a Chareidi gentleman to dinner and his daughter married him. Instead of converting to Islam, Esther would have become Chareidi. Instead of Nivin, there would be a picture of their grandchild dressed in Chareidi garb. Would everyone still feel all warm and fuzzy? Haaretz has an agenda. Open-mindedness is not it.

whose time has come and gone. just like catholic priest no matter how nice a guy or these kids no matter no impressive they chose to be moslem or continue as such and so are not jewish and should not qualify under law of return.

To No. 7: Thanks for reassuring me that Haaretz did not succeed in deligitimizing Sy Agnon. I was worried they had succeeded. But even more worrying is the prospect that they had succeeded in reducing the stigma to intermarriage. To 2 and 7: being called "idiot" and "cretin" reinforces my view that Haaretz fans maintain emotions far too primitive to be expressed in terms more befitting a public discourse.

Prior to 1948, Palestinian-Jewish relations particularly in Jerusalem were very common. Many of my friends have Jewish grandmothers. Basically, Jews were considered Palestinian Jews, just like there are palestinian Christians in Jersusalem who are proud of their identity. The situation with Jews grew worst after the 1948 war. I also would like to add that many prominement Palestinian families converted form Judism, as the Maslamani family did, and others. Those families have been for decades an integral part of the Palestinian society. As for the Nashashibis, they are prominement Jerusalamite family which we all in Jerusalem respect; and most definetly would write any article to associate with them, just like the author did.

The grandchildren of some German Jews who accepted baptism in the 19th century eventually ended up in the Nazi armies. Similarly, some of Agnon's descendants may end up being heroic shaheeds, blowing up their cousins in Israel. Such are the fruits of intermarriage, which result in loss of the positive, and accentuation of the negatives of both Arab and Jew

Amal Nashashibi should speak about a different detail: that Esther was born as a jew. I'm not sure that people like Amal will ever completely accept a Jew in their family. I suppose that Esther moved back to the West part of the City because in East part there are too many people like you, Amal. Even in the progressive circles.

What's wrong with a divorce or moving back to West Jerusalem and later remarrying a Jew? Both Love and Jerusalem could and should be boundless...

Esther Wiener was divorced in 1955 as is mentioned in the article. Since, she has no claim to the name Nashashibi. in 1967, she moved to West Jerusalem and later remarried a Jew. This important detail of Ms. Wiener's life has been ommitted intentionally by the writer so that he\she could write this cheap piece of journalism. I regret that this article is a piece of yellow journalism. No more no less.

I find this very interesting. Not just because I have read almost everything Agnon wrote but also because I knew a Nashashibi when I studied in Jerusalem 36 years ago. Zena was fascinating, smart, worldly and a very cool person. Now, perhaps, I understand why. I met some other members of the family back then as well - all very interesting people. Just a few weeks ago, when I was crossing HaMelekh George (near Yafo) I saw the stone put up on December 9, 1924 to commemorate the road's opening (Ragheb Bey El Nashashibi was Jerusalem mayor, Sir Herbert Samuel and Sir Ronald Storrs are also on the stone) and (as I do everytime I cross there) I thought of her and wondered where she is. And Jason, this does not delegitimize SY Agnon at all. Further, you are an idiot.

Some months ago I met in Aqaba a lady, member of the Nashashibi clan. Jawad Nashashibi is her father's cousin, and her grandfather married a jewish woman who converted to Islam. Her story is fascinating, but since she asked me to treat it confidentially, I managed to suppress my journalistic urge to make something out of it.

Yes, the Muslims are always saying how "broad minded" and pluralistic they are when they talk about Muslim men marrying dhimmi (Jewish or Christian) women. As opposed to the Jews who, in the view of the Muslims and possibly the writer of the article are "closed minded" and "primitive" for opposing intermarriage. Well, why don't we ask these broad minded people about Muslim women marrying Dhimmi men....oops "family honor killing" time!

How can you say that "they cannot get Israeli citizenship and improve their condition as permanent residents." (1) Arab residents of East Jerusualem have permanent residency and can get Israeli citizenship when they wish. (2) Those with a Jewish grandmother qualify for Aliya. So is there something non-standard here? Or are you just making this up?

The only thing that is typical of Haaretz is that it continues to publish letters by ignorant cretins like yourself.

Typical Haaretz article. Deligitimize an icon in order to reduce the stigma of intermarriage.

If all politicians disappeared from the face of the earth, most people will likely get along just fine. Regardless of differences. As far as I?m concerned, the differences-even though mostly superficial- they make us great and more human. Variety is the spice of life. Damn the ignorant leaders.