Palestinians plan to approach UN Security Council about statehood in July
UN General Assembly authorized to accept Palestine as a member state, but can do so only after it receives a recommendation to this effect from the Security Council.
By Barak Ravid Tags: Mahmoud Abbas Palestinian state Middle East peace 1967 bordersThe Palestinian Authority plans to approach the United Nations Security Council in July to begin the process of getting Palestine recognized as a full member of the United Nations and to assure a vote on the matter by the General Assembly in September, Haaretz has learned.
The UN General Assembly is authorized to accept Palestine as a member state, but can do so only after it receives a recommendation to this effect from the Security Council. This is not likely to happen, because the United States vehemently objects to the Palestinians' unilateral efforts in the UN and it has veto power over Security Council decisions.
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Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, left, meeting with U.S. President Barack Obama in the Oval Office in 2009. |
| Photo by: AP |
The Palestinians realize this, both Israeli and foreign diplomatic officials say, but they are interested in making sure that the United States is isolated on the Security Council and forced to exercise its veto.
The Palestinians will then ask the General Assembly to recognize Palestine as a state, without it being a full UN member.
Last Wednesday, the Palestinian leadership met in Ramallah to discuss the addresses of US President Barack Obama and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. During the meeting, the former chief Palestinian negotiator, Saeb Erekat, presented a document containing the Palestinian Authority's work plan through September for achieving full member status in the United Nations.
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Mahmoud Abbas, far right, walking with Egyptian security head Hussein Tantawi in Cairo, May 30, 2011. |
| Photo by: AP |
The document, whose contents reached Haaretz, sets a timeline for the stages the PA must go through according to the UN Charter. The General Assembly opens on September 15 in New York. Thus, to complete the procedural requirements that would lead to a General Assembly vote, the Palestinians must apply by mid-July at the latest.
According to the Palestinian plan, in mid-July Palestine will submit an official letter to the UN secretary-general asking that it be accepted as a full member of the United Nations on the basis of the June 4, 1967 borders. In this letter, the Palestinians are expected to declare that the state of Palestine accepts the principles of the UN Charter.
The secretary-general will then pass on the request to the rotating president of the Security Council, which in July will be Germany.
To receive full UN membership, the Palestinians must be recognized as meeting various international criteria for statehood, such as a territory, a people, a recognized government and more.
Erekat's document states that after the Palestinian request is received, the Security Council will convene a special committee to debate the request. This committee must submit a report to council members at least 35 days before the General Assembly opens, meaning by August 10.
Given this schedule, the PA must make its initial request to the UN secretary general by mid-July.
After the report is submitted, the Security Council will vote whether to recommend accepting Palestine as a member state or to reject the request. If the Security Council recommends UN membership - as noted, an unlikely development - the Palestinians would need support of two-thirds of the General Assembly, 128 states, to attain membership.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told a meeting of the Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee yesterday that while he did not believe the Security Council would recommend membership, nothing could be done to prevent the UN General Assembly from recognizing a Palestinian state.
"They can decide that the world is flat, there's nothing we can do about it," said Netanyahu. "We have no way of blocking a decision by the assembly. We will get support there from only a few countries."
However, Netanyahu still said the move could be thwarted.
"We have no way to obstruct the UN decision," he said, warning that that the Palestinians will not succeed in their efforts in the UN Security Council. "It is impossible to recognize a Palestinian state without passing through the Security Council and such a move is bound to fail."
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OK, Palestinians already declared their independent state in 1988, and now they wish to become a member of the UN. If I understand well, they will present a map based on the pre-1967 borders, and show that East Jerusalem, including the Old City (of immense spiritual significance to 3 religions) is the capital of their country. Is this not in contradiction with interpretations based on international law and also with various UN resolutions starting with the 1947 Resolution 181 (The Partition of Palestine), saying that "The City of Jerusalem shall be established as a corpus separatum under a special international regime and shall be administered by the United Nations" ? Many countries support the UN view and others support the position that the status of Jerusalem should be discussed as part of the Palestinians-Israelis peace negotiations.
Formation of a Palestinian state does not require negotiations between Palestinians and Israelis any more than the establishment of the state of Israel required negotiations between Great Britain and Israelis. Israel unilaterally declared itself to be a state as soon as the UN recognized Israel. Palestine is about to do the same. The central question today is: would Israel prefer to be circumscribed by its recognized 1948 borders, or would it settle for the 1967 borders?
" The central question today is: would Israel prefer to be circumscribed by its recognized 1948 borders, or would it settle for the 1967 borders? " - Neither. Israelis (probably not Netanyahu) and Palestinians (not Hamas the way it is today) should talk, negotiate, come to an agreement, and sign the deal. Then, everybody on the planet (UN, EU, Russia, China, Brazil, India, ...) would endorse it, and everybody will be happy, especially the Palestinians and the Israelis. Peace is better than war, right ? Can the UN ensure (dictate) peace ? By the way, Palestinians already declared statehood in 1988. What they want now is UN membership (a sense of justifiable pride), but will this make them happy ?
Obama is in the middle of a reelection campaign, the more pro Israel Republicans control Congress and both the Democrats and Republican members of Congress love Bibi right now. Creating a palestinian state by going straight to the UN will cause violence possibly even spark an intafada so going to the UN is not an option. Obama's problem is if this goes to the Security Council he is going to have to use the veto. He will come out of it a looser either way. If he doesn't use the veto he will make himself alot of enemies in the US ( where is matters ) but if he does use the veto all his outreach work to the islamic world he has been obsessively pushing for nearly 3 years will be down the toilet and he will end up just as unpopular as Bush was in the islamic world. Kill any chances of the UN granting the arabs a state which has not been negotiated and then make sure there are negotiations.
First the Palestinians must get the USA to discredit and impeach itself. Obama will use the Israeli Veto in the Security Council. As Netanyahu has destroyed Obama, the USA will throw away all remaining credibility. By next fall the overwhelming majority of nations, including most in Western Europe, will have recognized Palestine no matter what the UN does, or is allowed to do. At that time every new settlement building becomes an act of aggression against Palestine.
Foreign Minister Saeb Erekat explains: "We are not going [to the UN] for a unilateral declaration of the Palestinian state. We declared our state in 1988 and we have embassies in more than 130 countries and more countries are recognizing our state on the 1967 borders. The recognition of the Palestinian state is a sovereignty decision by the countries and it doesn't need to happen through the UN." Yes, but, at the very end, you will have to be able to live in peace with your neighbors, so a (the) peace process cannot be bypassed. By the way, Switzerland only joined the UN in 2002, but, enjoyed peace and prosperity for a long time.
This issue is being blown out of proportion. In the unlikely event that a vote will take place, it will have no material consequences but may set a precedent for other peoples with more legitimate claims...such as the Kurds. Maybe some native-American tribes will ask for UN membership? Taiwan is still not a member of the UN and far more prosperous than most of the petty dictatorships that currently dominate the GA.
There is nothing he can do to prevent recognition of a Palestinian state; no way to block a GA decision. The fight will soon be internal to the UN. All the rest will follow in due course, the USA bringing up the rear, as usual.
The US is pushing for the Palestinians to cease their pursuit at the U.N.. The US does not want to be in a position to Veto the Palestinians and really show who their masters are. They will veto anyway and again the US and Israelis will bear the costs with incresed hatred and violence.
Basically, Palestinians and their supporters are knocking their heads against the wall with their theatrics. The Palestinians want the West to boycott and sanction Israel to death. The West throws some cookies at the Palestinians like diplomatic upgrades or recognition but essentially tells Israel and the Palestinians to negotiate a deal. Short of war that's all there is to do.
80% of jordan is palestinian.so now you want a third palestinian state?a little greedy.
and there are two zionist states now.israel and stupid America.
you are the most boring poster on the site
In 1948 UN voted for two State - Jewish ans Arab. In 48 until 50th nobody used name of Arab state as Palestinian state. After the UN vote Jews claimed own state but Arab of British Palestine not. Instead of rational act Arab countries iniciated a war against Israel and lost the war. Jordan occupied East Jerusakem and most land of proposed by UN Arab state. After 63 years of fight beween so called Palestinians and Israelis formation of Palestinian state can occure only after the a peace talk between PA and Israel. USA will use a veto to decline discussion in UN Assembly of declaration of Pa;estinian State. If this will not happen the situation can explode to the war. Who will win" Nobody. Situation will become even more complrcated. PA leaders are not mature enough to lead their people to formation of their state which will live with Israel peacefully.
A shakedown by security officers at the scene of commotion and arguing will find additional documents of incitement against Israelis, and policies and procedures of historical and spiritual revisionism against the Jews spill out of Abbas' suit pockets while a thick charter of death and destruction of Israel topples out of Haniyeh's. All of this "supporting" documentation for a strong Palestinian argument for their State will of course not be brought up in case those infidels reviewing the request simply wouldn't understand. Wonder if the Palestinian representatives will dare to walk out of the session when the USA security council representative begins to speak and chide them for wasting everyone's time at this important forum after wasting their own time for about 64 years repeatedly choosing not to live in peace alongside a Jewish State?
You wish such chaos will happen, but the UN step has been organized for at least a year. Palestinians know what they are doing. I am not sure you konw what you are talking about.
Increasing the isolation of Israel will perpetuate the unnatural state of Israel within the global community - ultimately, even putting its own existence into question as this drags on - big picture this is a fabulous move by the Palestinian elite.
it will undermine any efforts in the region to reach out to the people, as this too is a peoples movement. this will help make the point clear, that there cannot be an outstretched arms by the Americans or the Israelis while occupation and its daily horrors continue in Palestine. This and acts like these will increase the pressure, FAR more than violence-
It was Obama who promised Palestinians a state in two years no matter what they do. Palestinians understood this as no longer having to come to negotiating table...
Pals will get statehood, thankfully! They will invoke UN Resolution 377 "Uniting for Peace" . This resolution states that if the Security Council fails to act to maintain world peace and security, the General Assembly should consider the matter in an emergency session. The whole world is supporting Palestinian statehood...as they should!
for the credibility of the US throughout the entire international community. Everyone recognisers how Israel has repeatedly snubbed its nose at the recommendation of the US and how their attempt to reconstitute negotiations has ended in repeated failures due to Israel's ongoing settlement campaign. Nations will see how the US imbalance in its foreign policy has nothing to do with justice, advocacy of democracy or anything other than subservience to domestic politics and the power and influence of the insidious AIPAC lobby. The reprecusssions do not bode well for the US or our position in the Middle East.
There are more important things than political (anti-Semitical) correctness, even if that's your only concern. The USA won't be all alone, and will know how to say no to a PA that is half Hamas, thus half Iran - Khamenei - IRGC - Al Quds force - Nasrallah - Mughniyeh & co. No thanks. You are expressing your anxiety at a certain veto in the form of a hollow PR threat.
the cause of justice will prevail against the injustices of Israel's injustices; its apartheid policies, its sense of entitlement and its expansionism and policy of lebensraum. The US will not be alone, no, it will be isolated along with the only other state that dictates US mid-East policy: Israel.
Yet again, Israel is tripping itself up in the diplomatic arena, fighting an unwinnable fight. Let the Palestinians have their State ratified by the UN. Since when has anything that the UN has said or done been effective anyway? That laughing stock of an archaic body that watched millions die all over the world without lifting a finger (Rwanda, Bosnia, Chechnya), and that installs Libya on its human rights advisory panels, is not something that Israel needs to worry about. I see it this way. A Palestinian state that allows missiles or mortars to be launched from its "territory" towards Israel, can at tht point no longer be considered a cluster of "militants". The response to an attack of that nature would be, under international law, a response to an act of war by a sovereign state and a fair casus bellum. Israel would then be within her legitimate rights under the same international law to defend herself.
Nearly 44 years of occupation and Netanyahu knows he can stall stall stall. This action won't correct the grievous injustice being done to the Palestinians but at least it will shine a light on some rampant hyprocisy being laid on the Pals
As far as I know no palestinian is interrested in Living in such a state. It will be empty of citizens.
I know it contradicts what you are taught by your mother and rabbi...but the reality is Palestinians want the same things for themselves and their children as everybody else. Go figure.....
United Nations General Assembly (UNGA) resolution 377 (V),[1] the "Uniting for Peace" resolution, states that, in cases where the United Nations Security Council fails to act in order to maintain international peace and security, owing to disagreement between its five permanent members,[2] the matter shall be addressed immediately by the General Assembly, using the mechanism of the emergency special session.
The land on which the Palestinians live belongs to Israel. They won it as a result of a war in 1967 in which Arab countries attacked Israel. Winning land as a result of war, especially one in which you are attacked, is a legitimate way to define national boundaries. A legitimate way to define land holding is by UN mandate. That is how Israel came into existence, in 1948. However, the UN is only a legal body it doesn’t enforce its mandates. The Arabs rejected the UN decision. Immediately the Arab countries threw 700,000 Jews out of their countries, and confiscated their property, and attacked Israel intending to destroy it. It failed. Moreover, the UN did not create a Palestine. There was in existence a Palestinian country called Transjordan and it owned land on the West Bank. It was gifted that land by the British about 1925 before there was a UN. The British were given the mandate by the League of Nations after WWI. During that war the Arabs fought for the Germans while Jews fought for the Allies and made critical technical contributions. That is the way the British repaid the Jews for helping them to win the war and rewarded their enemy in return for oil rights. The Bastards! I have no national joy in having had an English mother. After the 1948 war Transjordan released that land to the Palestinians living in the West Bank. In 1967 Israel again defended itself against Arab attack and captured the West Bank land. So it currently belongs to Israel by right of conquest and West Bank Palestinians currently live on land that is owned and protected by Israel. Whatever the UN does going forward, the land belongs to Israel. If the Palestinians want the land they will either have to fight for it or negotiate with Israel. Since they don’t currently recognize Israel as a legitimate nation, and Israel won’t negotiate under such circumstance, the West Bank Palestinians will have their nation on land that does not belong to them. They will continue as beggars sponging on the various countries of the world and dependent on Israel for water and other amenities. The fact that Israel is willing, following UN recognition, to negotiate for transfer of the land to the new Palestinian entity, speaks volumes for Israel. The history shows the British and the Arabs to be despicable. I hope in time the Palestinians in the West Bank see Abraham’s light and can work out an amicable agreement with Israel. Arabs are not stupid, just thick, and they will ultimately understand the benefits of partnering with Israel to create an economic entity on that land. Together they can enlarge on Israel’s incredible economic and technical accomplishments of the past 63 years, the only democracy in the Middle East, surrounded by enemies, hated and discriminated against by many simply because they are Jewish, and clearly the first and most effective nation to help whenever there is a disaster anywhere (Haiti and Japan are good recent examples).
I think the only one who needs a "history lesson" is GeneGUS. "Arabs were occupying the land of 1967". I have heard many interesting arguments, but this is the first time that I see this one. My advice, please read real books written by real historians otherwise your arguments are well non-sense.
. The occupied territories are occupied, not israel. This is not the age of Charlemagne or El Cid. Israel even signed a treaty and is violating that treaty. Israel hasn't even pretended to annex the land or the people. Why can't Israel adhere to a treaty it signed and ratified?
We want to disengage from the peace process it is the first stage of a larger policy, isolating the US and losing all credibility and political capital as the main broker is they way to go. No one will take the US seriously after that and hopefully it is beginning of the end for us with this game.
Except for Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya which prove just how impotent we really are.
well they did just that when israel was created dear Mr N...the UN just need to correct this information by highlighting the natural oblate spheroid shape of the earth by restoring the lawful borders in that region. there is space for both palestine and israel.
Doesn't the UN Charter declare that the Jews have the right to settle anywhere from the sea to the Jordan river? How does the oft stated PA policy that "Palestine" will allow no Jews?
A THOUSAND CHEERS FOR ISRAEL. MY COUNTRY AND MY PEOPLE ( If i understood you correctly that is)
2 hands objecting the creation of Palestine against about 190 hands raised for an overwhelming YES FOR PALESTINE. This is more than enough as a moral defeat on the human arena! Mr. Netanyahu.... the earlier you get it the better for both people....the state of Palestine is nonavoidable.
"You know what you get when you take someone's land for no money". How much did your country payed for New-Mexico or Arizona,California,Texas....... Maybe we should give the Palestinians some casinos.the US answer for occupation!!!!
Israel either decides to negotiate or will be by passed by the Palestinians and their friends. Usurping Arab land, and avoiding dealing with the issue, the day of recoking is coming none the less. The Palestinians and ARabs refused the original partition, and are partly resposible.. Bibi is stonewalling when it;s time to tango. Either he is part of the solution or an impediment, part of history or a bump in the road.
so,another muslim non-democratic country in the club.What's new?.
PA hopes that the USA will not use a veto. May be. Why other members of SC will support Pal State? They want to trigger a war between PA and Israel? They are bunch of Anti- Semites, it seems they are driming about a new Holocaust for Jews. Bravo!
the body language obama with abbas.compare with his dirty looks at the israeli prime minister.
"THEN the UNGA can step in and invoke Res 377. Can't anyone else see that???????" the united nations will vote for a palestinian state.dont get so hysterical.its a foregone conclusion.
The US produces a lot of hot air about freedom, dignity, democracy, self-determination, equality, ... blah blah blah. Let this be the test of whether the US is just another corrupt empire in decline without principles.
Definitely not Obama, and Obama is who he needed - tic...tic...tic...tic...tic. Certainly Netanyahu must be aware that Obama isn't actually against the Palestinian move in the UN...he just doesn't want to be put on the spot again like he was with the vote on the settlements, which isolated the US and severely damaged its image and integrity. I would venture that a veto is NOT guaranteed! And now Netanyahu is foolish enough tweak his nose at Obama by strutting an implicit ASSumption that he's got Obama right where he wants him...lol. NOT smart! - tic...tic...tic...tic...tic...
Obama has rolled over like a cowardly dog every time Netanyahu has confronted him.
IHH is a terror group condemning the killing of OBL and singing about killing jews http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3L7OV414Kk haarez shuts me up! i want to speak my mind! let me speak my mind!
Sure you should have freedom of speech, but freedom of speech and freedom to your own opinion doesn't entitle you to have your own 'facts'. So where does that number of 2.000 kurds being killed daily come from? Some alternative universe? Some voice inside your head?
in the United Nation ! This is not the General Assembly where many Arab Dictators rules the the show !
Most amazing part of the article was that Ereket presented a documented workplan for the next 3 months. I've never actually seen a palestinian do that....
This is haaretz "the land" but it seems that most people here want to give the land away. One of two, or you are extremely naive and believe that peace will be acheived by giving the land to terrorists, or you are on their side and want the destruction of Israel. Let's be clear, there's never been a Palestine country, therefore there's not a palestinian people. The Ottoman empire was divided, the countries we know today in the middle east were formed, and the land that was empty was given to the jews (later on they named it Israel). The arabs from the surrounding countries moved in and occupied the land, some to work for the British, others to kill the jews. No muslim (with some exceptions) will ever recognize Israel or the rights of the jewish people to live there. They don't want peace and their actions show it. Be honest, whose side are you on?
Germany has already said that they oppose such a move by the Palestinians, so the US won't be isolated. The Germans usually bitch about Judea and Samaria, but at the end of the day they come through for Israel.
People around here are extremely critical of Israeli actions - but due to the horrendous crimes committed by us we lost the right to critizize Israel, even when it should be done. Don't get me wrong - I think we have no choice but to back Israel, or at least keep our feet still, but this doesn't mean we support occupation, dehumanizing of palestinians, illegal settlements etc.. It's wrong, and Europe should speak out on this, but it cannot and will not be done by Germany.
Didn't the UN General Assembly already create a Palestinian State back in 1947? And didn't those so-called Palestinians blow it when they took the advice of their Arab League friends when they tried to destroy the State of Israel, created at the same time by the UN General Assembly?
Likul Aishin fil ahlam ( To those are dreaming) Israel is a power house! !!. Israel today can be compared to France UK (in its glory days) same as other nations that crumbled & are now gone.Long live Israel in its might, we produce more brains among five +++ millions then the Arab world with 150 millions. To those who hate us eat your heart out. You lived by Jihad, continue your miserable life with Jihad until you loose the last inch of what the Israeli left is willing to give up. KunaKablukum wa anaisha baadukum.Khala allah alhhakiki Baruch Hashem
Did protest sound like "the whining of spoilt children" when Jews were ethnically cleansed from one European country after another over the centuries? Was "realpolitik" more important than justice when the Nazis' ovens were running? You're either a blatant hypocrite, or uniformly evil; I hope it's the former.
Ihope that the US will recognize that if it vetos the Palestinian state it will lose a lot in the Islamic and Arab world. I hope US will change and let it go for the benefit of PEACE in the middle east. The settlements are obstacle to Peace ,the sooner the better these settlements should be halted and the settlers are absorbed in the 1948 borders.
Ihope that the US will recognize that if it vetos the Palestinian state it will lose a lot in the Islamic and Arab world. I hope US will change and let it go for the benefit of PEACE in the middle east. The settlements are obstacle to Peace ,the sooner the better these settlements should be halted and the settlers are absorbed in the 1948 borders.
... when a state that *wasn't* in the UN (South Korea) appealed to the UNSC for help against a foreign invasion. Abbas only needs the UN to recognize that Palestine is a state and then he can quote that precedent in an appeal to the UNSC for intervention. And when Obama vetos THAT then, gosh!, Resolution 377....
No need for any recommendation by the security council, since many recommendations and resolutions have been issued by this council since 1948!!> The pal.people and the arab revolutionary forces and regimes must prepare themself for the case that USA stops the resolutiom in sep.2011>
The PLO is focused on starting another war with Israel. It looks like they might be successful.
They want a one-sided "Solution" that they believe will benefit them, I'm all for dismantling useless settlements but if the new Palestinian state lets its Terrorist attack Israel from the territory it will be an All out war and they can no longer claim that it is an individual terrorist behind that attack, that is the Responsibility of being a Country. A Responsibility that in my Eyes both Abbas and his Hamas Allies proved they can't handle so the result would simply be more warfare and unrest in the region if this move is allowed to go through. The People who say otherwise are clearly not looking at the welfare of "oppressed" citizens.
on the maps before 1967 in east jerusalem was written jordan, so i want to negotiate with jordan, it's their land not abbas'es or any other invented people. and BTW, my jewish father ID says he was born in palestin so if there is 2 state solution i as his child have the right to return to palestin??? i want my right of return too
Didn't you just say the land used to be called Jordan? How come your father's ID says he was born in Palestine? It's amazing what hysterionics make people say!
As a light ,as a Jewish democracy she has the right not to adhere to NPT,not to accept dozens UN decisions,has the right to exist without borders,has the right to expand settlements on Palestinian lands,has the right to incite to war against Iran,she has endless rights and not a duty.
Egypt made this happen by convincing Hamas to play cool and jump on the recognition train. Abbas is making a very good move, and Hamas realises this or else it would't be part of it. The Palestinians and Egyptians realise very well that they won't get a state out of this, but the goal is to weaken Israel and the US significantly in the Arab world by making it very clear who is against a Palestinian state and who is with it with Israel and the US on one hand and the whole world on the other. The final blow to the state of Israel will not come through diplomacy or the UN, but this move is designed to weaken and isolate Israel as much as possible before that. I wonder if the US will ever recognise Israel as a strategic burden and not a strategic asset anymore? The 70s and 80s are over.
There are dozens of declarations by them, as recently as last week, where Meshaal, Haniyyeh, A-Zahar & co. say we will NEVER recognize the "Zionist entity". All Tantawi is doing is opening the gates to Kamenei's Iran wide. In Egypt as well as in Gaza, and if the world is that imbecile, in the West Bank as well -God forbid-.
... have the power to defend Israel from the Palestinian Terrorists ? With Hamas will be a part of any Palestinian Government ; the stability in the Middle East and perhaps the World will be in serious danger, It will but just like the Talaban are being accepted as a full member of the United Nation !
what about occupaied kurdistan??? what about occupaied cyprus??? kurds are human too. don't let silence kill them all. in gaza they have malls, food (even UN recently said so) and NIS 500 bags to travel to egypt via rafagh crossing, and the kurds have nothing of these. do something!!!!
Also Kurds have full rights in Turkey. The president of TUrkey is half Kurd. The main opposition of Turkey is full Kurd. There are 25 percent of Kurds in Turkey, only 6 percent vote for autonomy Sorry to burst your bubble but try something logical..
good luck getting that past the assembly with Hamas.
You have enough support to make it happen.
And no one will care about Palestinians after that. Just hold on a little longer.
With Obama undercut now, even as Netanyahu's poodle, and having no influence with the Palestinians or the Arab world on this issue, guess it will be up to Harper and the Canadians. Netanyahu should have looked at the Palestinian proposal when they were at the table. That was a mistake. Vague offers of "maybe we'll talk about it" won't fly any more and the world no longer buys Bibi's BS even if Congress does. Inventing pretexts for invading Sinai and Iran might work domestically in Israel, but outside, it is not likely. Not even Canada has the forces for a third Middle Eastern war - inadequate population.
The economy will dive into depression Obama will face the american people with that fact then the people will decide that it is in their best interest not to veto But i said that 3 years ago and abbas lacked the gut to do it may be he has them now
That is the question. How long will it take them to get fed up with the US and actually punish it. If they slowed down the rate of pumping out oil for a while, gas prices would shoot up, they would get just as much money for producing less oil, and ALL Western nations would be punished for their inaction on the Peace Process. There do exist ways for them to punish the West for what it does, but will they do it ?
Abbas doesnt want a state, he wants to destroy Israel. All he has to do is recognize Israel as a Jewish state and stop demanding that after a Palestinian state is formed, all the Palestinians get to move to Israel. If they accept Israel as a Jewish state tonight, there will be peace tomorrow. It that simple.
what kind of state would that be - Is it one you could accept if you were palestinian and lived there.
the palestinians have always refused to end the conflict. they have always refused to accept final status negotiations that would end the conflict. they and their supporters are put on notice that they will not succeed in getting a state without bilateral negotiations with israel. israel will not withdraw unilaterally from any territories under her control except under a negotiated peace treaty.
Abbas should start mentioning this as a reason why there is no reason that Palestine should not be created the same way.
The USA and Israel can behave like two ostreches with their heads in the sand. Reality will pass them by. Palestine will demonstrate world wide support. It is Israel that has and will continue to isolate itself. Unfortunately the USA will significantly tarnish itself suffering loss of esteem in the eyes of the Muslim-Arab world.
They can keep declaring Palestinian state until there is no tomorrow, but to actually create it Palestinians will have to come to negotiations.
Palestine has been attempting to negotiate and prevent further erosion of Palestine. However it is like a child trying to negotiate for a piece of candy as an adult is consuming the candy. It is obvious Israel will commit whatever insult, incitement or overt assault to prevent an independent, free Palestine. Therefore Palestine must continue to demonstrate moral victories and moral superiority.
A tactic meant to humiliate the US will back-fire; Americans do not forget disloyalty. And don't forget, it will the the US taxpayer (borrowed from China) which will be asked to buy-off the so-call Pal refugees. And the US will return to the sane Canadian position regarding the '67 cease fire lines (falsely referred to as 'borders').
I think you'll find that the Israelis have cornered the market in regards to humiliating the Americans.
Despite Israel not freezing building in illegally occupied territories. Despite sinking our ship and killing our sailors. Despite murdering our protesters. Despite spying on us. And by the way, the US never had a policy other than '67 cease fire lines plus mutually agreed swaps. If you believe we did, please send a link to a reliable source documenting such a position.
'Americans do not forget disloyalty'. Yes, we know what israel is.
A occupied people have the right to resist by 'any' means
** We will end our legitimate resistance and recognize Israel upon signing a peace agreement that (1) creates permanent borders and (2) ends Israel's occupation and oppression of the Palestinian people. This will end all future claims by all sides. We will renounce violence when Israel stops using violence, assassinations, military force, and racist civil regulations against our own people. We propose to accept and honor all previous peace agreements if Israel honors it's commitment from the Road Map agreement to stop all settlement construction. If we must negotiate with an Israeli government that includes factions like Likud, UTJ, and Yisrael Beiteinu, -that refuse the concept of two states for two peoples, then surely Israel can negotiate with a Palestinian government that includes Hamas. We encourage Israel to stop illegal Settlement construction and put a credible peace offer on paper with a map showing it's desired borders. Vague inferences to peace with stipulations and conditions are not a peace offer. With a credible Israeli offer on paper, the PLO and PA representatives will proceed to negotiations with Israel that are moderated by the Quartet and open for public review. There will be no more private negotiations and secret offers. The options for a peace agreement have been evaluated for decades. All we have to do is pick the parts we can agree on and request Quartet bridging proposals for what remains. The Settlements issue can be resolved on a case by case basis with mutually agreed swaps of similar land. Both sides should desire a border that is as short and straight as possible as these characteristics improve defensibility. The Palestinian right of return can be resolved with just compensation and repatriation to the Palestinian state. Israel's claim that the Jordan valley is critical to it's security is complete hogwash considering it's current ability to cover the airspace by plane and surveil the ground by spy satellite. Technology has ensured that no army can sneak up on Israel. Our representatives would accept a third party security force like NATO in the Jordan valley, with periodic evaluation for effectiveness and necessity. Israel’s most dangerous enemy is the one within, -the pro-Settlement Zionists who would prefer civil war to any peace agreement that creates two states for two peoples. We wish you success managing these difficult issues, but we must remind you time is precious and September approaches. **
A occupied people have the right to resist by 'any' means
Full participation, desegregation, equal education or full sovereignty along 1967 lines. Anything else is an infringement upon the truth that we hold to be self-evident: that all men are created equal.
When applied to US, the answers to all these questions were NO at one time or another, and answers to some of them are still NO. Also, there are millions of people who were born in European countries but do not have citizenship of the countries they were born in and therefore do not have equal rights. Why do you insist on applying a different standard to Israel?
I wouldn't if I was him...not after the last veto...and the embarrassed apology that came with it. That veto was extremely damaging to the US image, its integrity, and its credibility. He thinks congress can stop an American veto - it CAN'T! And unless he changes his tune dramatically to give Obama something to work with...he just might be in for a devastating surprise.
Israel the aggressor and occupier plus the USA the supporter with a veto power will be overruled by UN resolution 377 which was introduced by the US itself in 1950. The show in general is between Israel against the world. The USA is just another Zionist occupied territory.
One cannot recognize a Palestinian state whose leadership advocates the destruction of Israel.
Israel has been treating the Palestinains very badly for too log ...I hop you get a Palestinian state Soon..All the best Palestine ....Love for all....
I'm sure that the Obama administration, under pressure from the Israel Lobby, will veto any motion for Palestine to be declared a state. But the state MUST be declared because that is the only way there will be a Palestinian state. Israel has, over the years made it crystal clear that it will not accept a viable and contiguous Palestinian state so the Palestinians have been left with only one option, the United Nations. If Israel doesn't like it that is their problem. They should have left the territories years ago.
NONE of its other borders are fully agreed. If Israel can do that, so can Palestine.
1st statehood is declared. Statehood is recognized, or not, by the International Community of Nations (de jure) and the provisional Government is recognized, or not, (de facto).... When a state Government is elected it is then recognized, or not, (de jure) . THEN the UNSC can recommend the already recognized state for membership into the UN. That so many comments are also ignorant of the processes for statehood shows how little they know of how Israel was declared (not by a political party, but by a body representing all the world's Jewish folk, the Jewish People Council). They know so little of how Israel was recognized and eventually accepted into the UN and also I guess of it's obligations on being accepted into the UN. The Israeli public deserves to be properly informed. They obviously cannot depend on Israeli leaders for factual information. Israeli news services such as Haaretz and the State of Israel should publish a permanent article outlining the actual processes leading to statehood and UN recognition. One can only surmise that the Hasbara and a Greater Israel is more important than peace.
If Abbas wants to make Obama look bad, perhaps the Americans should cut financial support to the PA. The Arab league can promise to make up the money. But as usual they will not deliver.
Intelligent doesn't even come into it. These three factors are what has brought Israel's relations with the world to this low ebb we see today. Israel was outsmarted by Hizbollah in 2006. Israel has been outsmarted by Hamas several times lately, resulting in the Gaza op. The Gaza op was hardeston Palestinian civilians, but Israel was damaged more than Hamas to take second place. Israel has been outsmarted by the organizers of the first Turkish flotilla. The second flotilla will be more of the same. Until Israel makes some basic changes to their behavior, they can expect this string of failures to continue.
Using human shields is not smart.It is a crime.I wonder for who you want Palestinian state if you kill people that is living there.
It will be interesting to see how the UN will vote on carving a piece of territory from one country and giving it to other people. I guess that Mr. Abbas is convinced that Israel will get up and give him a country, just because Venezuela voted for it
Michael Scheuer, ex- CIA spook in chief just gave a wonderful speech in Britain. In it he states what is becoming increasingly obvious to most Americans who are not on the AIPAC pay-roll .... "The American relationship with Israel, in my mind, is a useless and unnecessary relationship". On Memorial Day a great many of us echo that statement.
it amazes me to hear how old school antisemites rant against AIPAC and the elders of zion nonsense, when the oil sheikhs and Iran and buying enslaving the West and publicly using oil as a weapon (as they did before). There is no consipiracy here, the Arabs say exactly what and how they want to use their oil to bully and enslave the US and the West. They have already done so with Japan and the EU.. They paid off the EU to recognize a BS "palestinian nation" that never- nor ever will, exist!
So despite Israel-bashing these eager Jewish advisers of Bambi are not safe in their saddles.
Was not misrepresented in the comment which I am sure it might have been.But then it is goes with the TERRITORY
A proud American who stand firm with our friends against the fanatic, prehistoric, women abuser animals that you and Scheuer stands for.
The West survived the cold war mostly because it went beyond mere "relationship". There's no point in relationship with Taiwan or with Central Europe states either. Go ahead, throw away useless friendships and take fruitful relations instead. But when hard times will come, guess whom you'll need more. Same was done by U.K.
i rather prefer the "fog of war" thesis from clausewitz.when a war start you dump all your plans.wars do not go according to any preconceived plan.and nor do politics or state-craft.you may guess as to what may happen but you would probably be wrong
Why are you picking at Logios? What he says are full of logic, unlike your statements.
Someone should ask Ki Moon Ban if South Korea was a member of the UN in 1950. The answer: "No". Get it? Abbas needs the UN to recognize that "Palestine" is "a state", even if it is a "non-member state". He can then appeal to the UNSC for help - just like South Korea - and if the USA's vetos and response THEN the UNGA can step in and invoke Res 377. Can't anyone else see that???????
It has been argued that with the adoption of the 'Uniting for Peace' resolution by the Assembly, and with the Charter interpretations that were made law as a result, that the UNSC 'power of veto' became, fundamentally, irrelevant.[34] By adopting A/RES/377 A, on 3 November 1950, it was made clear by over two-thirds of UN Member states that, according to the UN Charter, the P5 cannot and should not prevent the UN General Assembly from taking any and all action necessary to restore international peace and security, in cases where the UNSC has failed to exercise its 'primary responsibility' for maintaining peace. Such an interpretation sees the UNGA as being awarded 'final responsibility'—rather than 'secondary responsibility'—for matters of international peace and security, by the UN Charter. Although not couched in the same language, various high-level reports make explicit reference to the Uniting for Peace resolution as providing the necessary mechanism for the UNGA to overrule any UNSC vetoes;[35][36][37][38] thus rendering them little more than delays in UN action, should two-thirds of the Assembly subsequently agree that action is necessary.
While the "emergency special session" framework was established by resolution A/RES/377 A, the UN Charter always contained provisions for "special sessions",[6] which, according to the General Assembly's current "Rules of Procedure",[7] can be called within fifteen days of a request being received by the secretary-General.
Someone should ask Ki Moon Ban if South Korea was a member of the UN in 1950. The answer: "No". Get it? Abbas needs the UN to recognize that "Palestine" is "a state", even if it is a "non-member state". He can then appeal to the UNSC for help - just like South Korea - and if the USA's vetos and response THEN the UNGA can step in and invoke Res 377. Can't anyone else see that???????
A state without borders is like Haaretz without Israeli bashers
If Israel can be a state without borders, so can Palestine.
If someone's property was taken, give it back or pay Just Compensation for it. End of story. Wars are fought for peace and liberty not land. The victor does not get to keep the other people's land. The USA did not annex Italy, Germany and Japan. What makes sense is for the UN, (the entity that took land from Arabs and gave it to Jews to remedy the problems cause by the Germans), to invoke something like the legal Doctrine of Eminent Domain and award Just Compensation in exchange for a Release of Claims to those who lost property. Simultaneously, sensible borders should be drawn enabling the Palestinians to establish a state. Establish a UN MiddleEast Compensation Commission where people who lost property as a result of the creation of Israel, can come, present their claims, sign a Release and walk away with a check. That would be fair. Isn't it better to Justly Compensate people than fight for another 63 years? Wars cost money too. Finally, Jewish settlers should be permitted to stay where they are. If they find themselves in Palestine they'll be Palestinian citizens. Jewish Palestinians. Israel has Arabs. Palestine can have Jews. It's the same thing. No artificial borders for them. The fact is, once the settlers come to grips with this, most of them will leave voluntarily. If some zealots chose to stay and become citizens of Palestine let them.
Obama can use the veto to block UN **membership** for Palestine, sure, but he can't stop the UN from declaring that Palestine is, indeed, a state. Abbas can then appeal *to* the UN in the face of foreign aggression against his state, and he can point to South Korea (which didn't join the UN until 1991) as his precendent.
israel conceded a state at camp david why the hysterical repetition of posts?
And hope Lenin's axiom of "a lie repeated a thousand times becomes a truth works for me as well". I just hate Israel because I hate Jews.
Anyway, enough of thics sickness, time for some medicine, isn't enough enough?
There isn't a single Israeli who thinks the world is flat.
Anyway, enough of thics sickness, time for some medicine, isn't enough enough?
Making sweeping statements like "most Israelis think..." Most Israelis are sick and tired of war and fighting, and tired of making compromises and concessions while extending the hand of friendship to the Palestinians only to get the hand bitten. Thats what Most Israelis think
So it is not only Israel/Jerusalem/Jews who think it is the centre of the UNIVERSE................ So do the other faiths... Me catalavenis? Kyrie Elesion Per Dominum Nostrum (YHW) Amen Per Dominum Nostrum YHW Amen
There is no short cut to sitting down with PM Netanyahu to negotiate a state.
The General Assembly is perfectly entitled to vote on a resolution that poses this question: is "Palestine" the "arab state" of UNGA Res 181? That resolution would be passed 170-3, and would be a declaratory statement by an overwhelming majority of states recognize that "Palestine" is, indeed, "a state" and not simply "an occupied territory". Negotiating with Bibi is not required, and the USA is not in a position to veto. Palestine would be a state - an occupied state, but a state nonetheless - and that would be a HUGE victory for Abbas.
It will never happen through end less negotiations either. Israel is super power in ME. ok , but with all these poers it will never break Pals well and how often israel humilate Pals. they will never give up on thier rights. Rachel, look back to history and think, did Indians make Oslo agreement with UK Govt. after 150 yrs of occupation? Did Spanish make Oslo agreement with muslims after 700 yrs of occupation? How long israel being their, 63 yrs ,,, only.... Plas are not in a hurry, another 630 yrs. but they will not give up their rights just because you are storng today.
Abbas has not gone for option 2 it is your prime minister who doesn't want the Palestinian people who are dispersed all over the world to return to Palestine of 1967 and if you go back in time 1967 includes east Jerusalem in which Netanyahu thinks he can negotiate with the Palestinians so as to make them forget about east Jerusalem. Preconditions are meaningless Rachel dignity and perseverance is the only option.
Israel is the forever roadblock to a Palestinian state. That is the whole point of using the UN as the starting point.
Damn!, so your psychotherapy didn't help your obsessive-compulsive anti-Semitism. We'll put up as usual.
There is no short cut to sitting down with PM Netanyahu to negotiate a state.
I'd find it extremely ironic if Israel reacted in the EXACT SAME way to a UN establishment of Palestine as the Arab League did for Israel in 1948.
The Jewish leadership accepted the partition plan which divided the land mass of Palestine into an area for a Jewish State, and an area for another Arab state. The Arabs would not accept this and went to war. Now 63 years on the Arabs are still fighting for all the land including the areas originally assigned to the Jewish state.
things have moved on
no one will give the palestinians a state except the palestinians themselves. forget israel. for the U.S. got get it from the UN.
Never commit others to do what you wouldn't do yourself
The body that cannot prevent genocide happening right in front of it's face or even keep peace on disputed borders is going to dismantle settlements now?
Too bad the 3rd Reich didn't finish the job eh? Melissa. Your hatred is not unnoticed
Learn to share the land Palestinian,don't kill Jewish children
Nope, I say bring on the UN forces.
Thank God the US decided to bypass a Russian VETO by getting this Resolution passed. The lack of foresight by the US will be the downfall of Israeli oppression.
Obama can not prevent the UNGA from recognizing that Palestine is "an occupied state". Once Abbas has that recognition then he can appeal to the UNSC for assistance, just as South Korea did in 1950. A USA veto then clears the way for the UNGA to step in and invoke Res 377. Sanctions against Israel then become inevitable.
Stop fooling yourself. This is a religious war and the belligerents are extremely motivated, by reward in the afterlife and 72 virgins etc
Palestine can ask for a re-affirmation of Resolution 181. Try learning the facts instead of listening to Israel fairy tales.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/10107
The Palestinian state that is being proposed does not have a defined territory; that can only be resolved by peace discussions with Israel. It cannot support itself. It is always begging, and it does not recognize Israel. The borders and the territory are controlled by Israel and the UN is not in a position to define borders. You gotta really hate Israel in order to vote to accept Palestine into the UN. Unfortunately many do hate Israel. Given the nature of the world we live in it is a badge of honor. I am proud to be a Jew.
Believe me. I did not hear of anyone who hates Israel. I am a European born USA citizen. Everyone supprts Israel. No matter what happens in the UN, because the USA will overwrite anything they want. After all the little stupid "UN" was found by USA anyway.. So don't worry. USA and Canada is on your side. If the loser European economies will need some money to stay alive they better back the USA-Canada and Israel trio..Word up puppets
they probably will declare their borders: all of historic palestine that wasn't controlled by israel after the 1948 war. and when those borders get international recognition, maybe finally israelis will realize that paying settlers to move outside of israel wasn't such a great idea and they should have elected governments that would negotiate with palestinians instead of trying to take as much of their land as possible. maybe, but probably not.
Why can't the UN define the borders of a Palestinian state while it could define those of Israel when it was first created? This is not about hating Israel, or Jews, it's about doing what is right. Israel has been stealing land from the Palestinians, and it has been building on land that is not it's own, and they have been rejecting every UN resolution...all this while being covered by the US. The world has realized that this can't keep on happening, Israel can't keep playing the role of the spoilt child, crying every time something is done against it's wishes and expecting the world to support it blindely....it's time to face the consequences....to note...I am Canadian of Lebanese origins, and I fully support recognition of Israel, and I wish that one day all the Arab world will recognize Israel...so I am not attacking Israel, I am just saying that the way things are now can't keep going...
It is not necessary to hate Israel to desire the Palestinian people to get justice. You sound like the three-year old who tells its parents they hate it because it doesn't get them ice cream.
Please wake up... recognizing Palestine as a country means hating Israel? So, let me see if I understood your point: when the UN voted for the creation of Israel it was OK, but giving the same right to our Palestinians brothers is wrong?!
If Israel kills Palestinians to take over their lands, Israel will be hated.
"The Palestinian state that is being proposed does not have a defined territory; " Except, of course, the article says this: "on the basis of the June 4, 1967 borders". No-one else claims that territory, if you haven't noticed, so nothing stops the Palestinians from claiming that territory for their state. Your argument is therefore flawed.
Accepting Israeli caused atrocities is not love of Israel. And acknowledging the rights of Pals for self-determination is not hate of Israel. If that is how you put it, then you have to accept that most of the world hates you. And that is not because you are a Jew but due to your crimes against humanity.
1) It does have borders. The green line...the 1967 borders as recognized by the world including USA, your benefactors. 2) "can only be resolved by peace discussions" while Israel continues to confiscate more land and imprison more Palestinians? Israel made it clear, through Netanyahu, that colonialism is more important than peace. 3) Palestinians are begging. As a matter of fact, Fayyad has been very successful in securing the foundation of the Palestinian state through economic growth. This is recognized by the World Bank. 4) "the borders and territory are controlled by Israel.." Yes, it would seem so. This is an occupation. After the unilateral declaration. It will be the occupation of a sovereign state and a U.N. member state. Such continued actions can result in sanctions against Israel. 5) UN has already defined the borders...TWICE. In 1947 and following 1967 in which it declared that the occupied land along the '67 borders belong to the Palestinians. Israel is the one breaking international law and will suffer the consequences of such crimes. 6) Declaring a Palestinian state is not about hating Israel. Its about loving Palestine and Palestinian culture and Palestnian freedom. If you can't see that, then there's something severely warped with your thiniking. 7) You should be proud to be a Jew. No one is discrediting you for it or bing critical of Judiasm. Again, declaration of a Palestinian state has nothing to do with hating Israel and/or Judiasm. We want the same freedoms that you enjoy. We're entitled to that, don't you think? Or are we less human than you?
Ultimately they will be like an body,but with an empy suit.. They may try to go forth in their endeavour to announce a state,but how wll. they survive when they have not the wherewithal to sustain it. As you say and we have known for many decades the UN is run (by the majority) of its members who are oil rich Arabs,.corrupt Muslim dictators and the rest.Even France,U.K Germany and most European countries still have antipathy toward Jews.Nothing if at all has changed after all the thousands of years. But don't worry ,we are still here while hundreds of dynasties disapeared from the face of the earth. The Greek Empire,Romans,Russia &many more came and went throughout thousands of years.And here we are inspite of all adversity ...a small nation/religion/race..and people are here to stay and we will be here even now even America is not going to last forever..God bless and keep you Gene..
You could say the same of Israel
Firtly do't worry..If ever the Palestinians get the state they have been craving fop rso long it will be a disaster in the making.But io thank God Israel is strong enough to care for itself irrespectively. You say:It is always begging, and it does not recognize Israel. The borders and the territory are controlled by Israel and the UN is not in a position to define borders. You gotta really hate Israel in order to vote to accept Palestine into the UN. 23Unfortunately many do hate Israel. Given the nature of the world we live in it is a badge of honor. I am proud to be a Jew. So am I you Gene. You brought tears to my eyes while reading your post.. ..............Cheer up as far as I can detect reading yours) Notwithstanding my predictions in passed posts.......Theirs will be a hollow victory(if one can call it that) Quite true on the UN and its members..that almost all hate Jews and by association Israel. We will prevail and as usual go from strength to strength..
My thoughts too.Am terribly proud of it.. sent you a post..............Not published.(haaretz short of stuff) methinks... Your words brought tears to my eyes,. But do not despair.. The Palestinians (if and when they have a state) They will be having an uphill task to encounter..A sisyphian one at that lasting for a very long time..
...
but I am a Jew with a soul, heart and conscience. Maybe that is why you and I have different aspirations for the region.
Sounds like someone that has nothing else working for them! RAVE ON!!! Pride in being a Jew will only go so far.And right at this moment in history; it doesn't seem to be traveling all that far. And the wheels need some oil.
C'mon get going..will ya..It will open your eyes..
I live in my GOOD LOVING COUNTRY ISRAEL..Proud to be its citizen where my family dates back TEN GENERATIONS. How about you LS,,,Do tell please
What is wrong with acceptance of a Palestinian state?, along borders that have been recognized and negotiated upon for the past 2 decades? borders which would leave Palestinians with 22% of their original homeland, not to mention the most arid and inhabitable part of original Palestine. Palestinians are by in large willing to accept this. We just want to move on. Let a state be recognized on these borders, let the occupation stop and negotiations begin on equal footing on the other matters that must be addressed such as RoR/Compensation etc. If Israeli right wing fears are recognized, and Palestine becomes hostile, Israel has all the capabilities and rights(declaration of war/right to self defense etc as it is now a member state) necessary to defend itself. This is a logical step forward, and the only reasoning in the realpolitik of the Israel/Palestine issue for this not to happen is for the interests of right wing and religious groups who insist on ideology and ignorance over realistic possibilities and common humanity. Its been 63 years, let the bloodshed stop, Israel is in the position of power in this struggle at the moment, and it can redeem itself in the eyes of the international community, improve its own security, and regain moral high ground (which it can then use to legitimately address issues such as Hamas' charter etc) by going to the United nations, and accepting a Palestinian state, In front of the entire world.
The USA veto can prevent "the state of Palestine" from becoming a "member of the UN", but it can't be used to prevent the UN from recognizing that "Palestine" is, indeed, "a state". Bibi is wrong.
The USA veto can prevent "the state of Palestine" from becoming a "member of the UN", but it can't be used to prevent the UN from recognizing that "Palestine" is, indeed, "a state". Bibi is wrong.
The USA veto can prevent "the state of Palestine" from becoming a "member of the UN", but it can't be used to prevent the UN from recognizing that "Palestine" is, indeed, "a state". Bibi is wrong.
The USA veto can prevent "the state of Palestine" from becoming a "member of the UN", but it can't be used to prevent the UN from recognizing that "Palestine" is, indeed, "a state". Bibi is wrong.
The USA veto can prevent "the state of Palestine" from becoming a "member of the UN", but it can't be used to prevent the UN from recognizing that "Palestine" is, indeed, "a state". Bibi is wrong.
The USA veto can prevent "the state of Palestine" from becoming a "member of the UN", but it can't be used to prevent the UN from recognizing that "Palestine" is, indeed, "a state". Bibi is wrong.
It is not the fault of the Jews that Britain handed all of Palestine east of the Jordan to a foreigner.
As a fellow Palestinian, I think that Israel now is beyond negotiations, it is beyond justice, it is beyond humanity. They are beginning to drown in their pool of arrogance and oppression. And the only way to get back what is ours is if we fight for it, ofcourse we are too weak, the arab world is too weak, but we're not going to remain weak forever. Things will only get worse before they become better, but I thank Netanyahu for what he is doing, with his deeds, Israel will be no longer
The Arab population of Egypt and Jordan gave up their land. Just because Arafat gave them a name called Palestinians for the PLO doesn't mean Israel stole their land at all. I personally would like to see a map of what they consider their land and wouldn't be surprised if it included places like Jerusalem and Acco and maybe even Tel Aviv.
There has never been an Arab Palestinian homeland, in 1947 the Arabs turned down an offer on an additional to Transjordan. Palestinians was the inhabitant’s name of mandate Palestine (1922 – 1948) regardless of ethnicity. Don’t mix together mandate Palestine with make believe Palestine
Whats the point in going with the flow on this one? History and common sense show that the Palestinians will not let Israel live in peace even if they had their own state and even if they had control of Jerusalem. So its only a matter of time before the State of Palestine attacks Israel, through its terror proxies, and Israel is forced to invade Palestine, dismantle its military capabilities and re-occupy. So why bother creating this State in the first place.
But what sort of a state will it be (if ever) I'll tell you:A begging bowl at the ready...for they have nothing to commend it,for its survival...Just a "name" An empty shell .. No infractrucures,nothing for them to depend on.They have been wasting topo much time fighting Israel..They tried and failed.Don't be too sure they will win..and if they do it will be disastrous in the long/short time.A PASSING FANCY..that is all
at camp david.they were already offered a state.so ten years ago they had in their hands.an offer overseen by the united states.they refused. so now a state is nothing .they are back where they were ten years ago.
Had enough of theiri begging AND whining. Nuff said
So are the Jews melissa...Each Orthodox and similarly procreate at least 8 children per family..Converesely Arab procreation has dwindled gone down like a packl opf cards.YOU ARE IGNORANT BEYOND BELIEF..and know nothing but wafflling without MERIT or knowledge/.AN EMPTY VESSEL.Yopu kow what they say:EMPTY VESSELS MAKE MORE NOISE HOW APT IT IS FOR YOU.
, Will be so hard to maintain that unless there is BILLONER donnor they FOLD UP AND DIE..Am stating FACTS here..Be that as it may .............A VERY LONG HAUL AWAITS THEM..However, the begging bowls will as usual beever present too.We must remember several weeks ago...asking for 5 billions...that's for starters just think in terms of months decades.So no 24TH ARAB STATE ON THE DOORSTEP OF ISRAEL..SIMPLE DEDUCTION
the whole world is benind it except lonley Israel and the US.
And lonely Germany, Angela Merkel has announced...
And lonely Germany, Angela Merkel has announced...
What is wrong with acceptance of a Palestinian state?, along borders that have been recognized and negotiated upon for the past 2 decades? borders which would leave Palestinians with 22% of their original homeland, not to mention the most arid and inhabitable part of original Palestine. Palestinians are by in large willing to accept this. We just want to move on. Let a state be recognized on these borders, let the occupation stop and negotiations begin on equal footing on the other matters that must be addressed such as RoR/Compensation etc. If Israeli right wing fears are recognized, and Palestine becomes hostile, Israel has all the capabilities and rights(declaration of war/right to self defense etc as it is now a member state) necessary to defend itself. This is a logical step forward, and the only reasoning in the realpolitik of the Israel/Palestine issue for this not to happen is for the interests of right wing and religious groups who insist on ideology and ignorance over realistic possibilities and common humanity. Its been 63 years, let the bloodshed stop, Israel is in the position of power in this struggle at the moment, and it can redeem itself in the eyes of the international community, improve its own security, and regain moral high ground (which it can then use to legitimately address issues such as Hamas' charter etc) by going to the United nations, and accepting a Palestinian state, In front of the entire world.
But what about December 2012, after the US Presidential elections? Obama believes the Palestinians deserve a state and promised to make it happen. Yahoos don't think that far, however.
we know full well that obama is not trustworthy and will stab us in the back whenever possible.
makes no difference. The Obama administration will use its veto power whenever it's needed to thwart the 2 state solution because the U.S. government is just as much an enemy of the Palestinians as is the Israeli government. It looks to me like the Palestinians have finally come to understand that fact and I can only wish them well as they take their case directly to the U.N.
Now go and joion YOUR ARAB brothers they need you badlly
...received in the Thrilla in Manilla? Go see a doctor! Now, suppose Obama loses in the November 2012 elections. When will the Republican get into the White House? (a) The next day; (b) Two weeks later (when the results are certified; (c) By the end of the year; (d) On 20 January 2013./ After you have answered this question, try placing December 2012 on that time line.
Indeed there is a way. Bibi needs to disavow that the world is flat and acknowledge the Palestinians right to independent statehood along the 67 borders. Netanyahu and his supporters didn't mind the UN DECLARING THE WORLD FLAT in 1948 by recognizing the creation of Israel.
The UN recognized Israel in 1948 as a result of Jewish support fighting for the Allies and critical scientific contributions during two world wars; in which wars incidently the Arabs supported the Germans. The creation was intended after WW1 and it took 30 years before it actually happened. Nevertheless. the Arabs attacked with the intention of destroying Israel. Moreover 700,000 Jews were forced out of Arab countries.The UN did not.hing to support israel. The Arabs tried to destroy Israel two more times but failed. Did the Israelis not have a right? Israelis do not have defective memories and they already occupy the West Bank. What do you think it would be appropriate for Israel to do, embrace those who have been trying regularly to kill them? The Jewish bible provides the relevent instruction -- an eye for an eye!
and wants everything to be according to their way. Arrogance, is what it is called.
And label the Palestinians as such. Most of your kind are so ignorant that they don't even realize that many Palestinians don't consider themselves Arab, 10% of Palestinians are Christian, and 80% of Muslims aren't Arabs. Bet you didn't know any of that. Bet you also didn't know that Jewish Nationalism is a recent concept from the 19th century, before that it was just a religion as it should be. Bet you also didn't know you're a racist liar. Oh an you didn't win the war. Nobody recognizes your war as one for independence that was one. Only your propaganda does.
he said palestinian eldrs will die, younger generation will forget. You and Bengiruion are wrong. all palestinian refugees will come from around the world one day to Historic palestine borders a ccompanied with one million arabs and muslims to cross these borders. their and then what you and your govt. and the whole zionists will do? think ya habibi thnik
As the saying goes, the best comes to those who wait and I say the time has come for a palestinian state.
hamish?what sort of name is that?
No ifs or buts.. Thanks for the post brother
Creeps like CJ,and ilk will twit and turn like wrigglle worms to discredit Jews/israel They can try all their tricks ultimately Israel ios OPUR COUNTRY does not or ever will be for any fakestinians
So basically the only factor (projected to be) preventing Palestinian statehood will be the US veto. This Netanyahu is depending on. After all he deserves this little favor in return for all he has bent over backwards to accomplish for peace and for Obama.
This very fact makes me proud to be an American...how is it that a people who were given a state in '48 went to war instead and have been waging terror attacks since then get to demand what they want and get support for their terrorist ways.Sick
The USA can not veto UN recognition that "Palestine" is "a state". What the USA can veto is UN membership for that state. But note that (a) is Palestine a state? (b) should that state join the UN? are two quite different questions.
The USA can not veto UN recognition that "Palestine" is "a state". What the USA can veto is UN membership for that state. But note that (a) is Palestine a state? (b) should that state join the UN? are two quite different questions.
"After all he deserves this little favor in return for he has bent over backwards to accopmlish for peace..." Such as what? I'm curious? Is it the racist laws, the illegal detentions? Perhaps the recent announcement of 1,550 new settlement homes in the West Bank?
to create Peace since Mahmoud Abbas took over from Arafat? Tell us, we are listening.
While you are correct in a sense, UN membership is vital. If Israel was not accepted at the UN, it would have been a devastating blow. Name states that seek legitimacy that do not seek UN recognition. I might add that the structure or rules of the UNSC needs to be reformed. One country, China Russia or the US can, out of stubbornness, rule out morally necessary action. Perhaps there is a go-around to statehood at the UN through a 2/3 vote of the GA. Still everyone will know that it is the US blocking statehood and it will be bad for US relations with Arab countries.
Just wait FOR THE BEGGING bowlle..hands outstreched wanting as usual..Unlike the Jews who OUT OF THE ASHES ROSE ISRAEL LIKE PHOENIX.. Can we expect the fakestinians to do the same.... NOT AT ALL.. BS
Pals are doing a very smart move to advance their interests and further isolating Israel. How far Israel will be isolated until our stupid government will realize that it has to give up on illegal settlements to give peace a chance. Cannot they understand that Israel approaching international disaster and would not be able survive alone.
very well spoken. i agree with you for 100%.
Regime change now! Liberate ISRAEL!
Regime change now! Liberate ISRAEL from the corruption and stupid politicians!
Many countries depend on Israel for technology, research, aid, and weaponry. What do Palestinians have to offer the world?... olives?... Sorry, but I'd rather have Palestinians gone than Israel. Like most of the other Arabs, they have contributed to nothing but trouble.
In the eyes of the Palestinians, the settlements are just an excuse. They have their eyes on Tel Aviv, Haifa, Ashdod and Ashkelon too. Listen to their speeches and religious sermons. Its not about the settlements, its about the whole country.
BUT ZILCH..HAVE NO MONEY,NOTHIONG BUT THEIOR USUSAL BEGGIONG BOWLS
"No one has the power to stop the decision to recognize a Palestinian state in the UN General Assembly in September," - Netanyahu // Is that so? Abbas is actually begging Netanyahu to start peace talks, and is saying:'If no peace talks start by September we will go to the UN'. Abbas WANTS talks and not unilateral actions! The one who prevents talks is Netanyahu, because he refuses to freeze construction in the Occupied Territories while the talks last. Mind you, the freeze is actually OUTSIDE the area of existing settlements and does not include Jerusalem (as was the freeze during the month one the talks were conducted. (This was the silent agreement, provided no big projects were approved.) Building while talks go on is equivalent to one side keeps eating the pizza while the two sides are discussing how to divide it! Nobody even asks Abbas to give up on this demand, because it is so obviously correct. Netanyahu can stop the UN action, but he is too fearful of his right-wingers to do so. This misfit of a PM should be ashamed of himself.
logios jewish believers love the land of israel.it is not a matter of dollars and cents.it is not what abbas wants.the land of israel is not for sale.we do not trade and negotiate the land of our forefathers. those like you with a soul of clay want to treat this as a bazaar.peddle your carpets elsewhere logios.israel is not for sale.
"Netanyahu can stop the UN action, but he is too fearful of his right-wingers to do so." he is not fearful of his right wingers; he is one of them and agrees with them.
Israel was giving the PLO everything and he turned it down. Stop blaming Israel and your not one of the elves from Lord of The RIngs.
You would be a better propagandist if you remembered anything.
netanyahu had agreed to a ten months freeze on construction in the west bank. abbas refused to sit down and negotiate.
netanyahu had agreed to a ten months freeze on construction in the west bank. abbas refused to sit down and negotiate during those ten months. abbas has been counting on obama to give him a state on a silver platter.
and the palestinians did not enter negotitations. Ulmart offered palestinians almost the whole of the West Bank including swaps and Abbas run away. The palestinians are not ready to cut a peace deal with he jewish state. It is not about territory, it is about principles.
Abbas is not begging Netanyahu, he is strategically avoiding him. Abbas stopped seeking to negotiate long long ago.
A year of freeze ? wouahh !! that is quite an offer indeed ! when palestinians expect their State to be recognized, all illegal settlements to be removed, East-Jerusalem to be their capital, rights of refugees to be accepted and so on......a year of freeze of settlements that are illegal while at the same time building in other areas of the WB, is a joke. Isn't that what happened when Sharon left Gaza ? dismantling settlements and building more elsewhere. Do you think palestinians are fools ? do you think Israel is being genereous and making concessions ? there was a time when Israel would use military force to impose those settlements and not even offer a freeze. Hundreds of palestinians have been killed or expulsed because of shameful policy. Those times are over. Stop buying that propaganda or simply stop lying to yourself. 1 year freeze....ahahahahahhah !!!!
The Palestinians demanded a TOTAL freeze of building in East Jerusalem and the West Bank. What Netanyahu offered was a PARTIAL freeze: No freeze in Jerusalem, and in WB only freeze outside the line of built area of settlements. Within the settlements, there will be no freezing. Abbas insisted ona full freeze (which is actually what international law demands). For a partial freeze Abbas negotiated indirectly. Finally, under US pressure, he agreed to move to direct negotiations even under the PARTIAL freeze. Should this be seen as "waste of an opportunity"? I think Abbas' position was reasonable: If Netanyahu cannot do a freeze, how can you expect him to push for an actual evacuation of settlements? The present situation seems to justify such doubts. In any case, Abbas still wants continuation of the talks under this PARTIAL freeze.
Obama is already diluting his statment about Israel's borders. Israel will stand because the American and Canadian people stand with them. I just laugh how hard some of this puppets try to discredit Israel, USA and Canada. Don't forget world. We still lead.. and dictate
The kids in the playground think so .....ah!