PA pushing for UN to act on Goldstone 'war crime' findings

JB: Israel is insisting upon a precondition for talks. PSM: No! Wrong! It is the PA who is making new demands of Israel! JB: No, the PA is addressing the members of the UNHRC, not Israel. Which leads to...... PSM: "JOHNBOY Thre fact that precious littleof the Goldstone report requires any action from Pals no doubt does make you laugh." N.O.N. S.E.Q.U.I.T.O.R. PETER SM can not help himself! Two posts into a thread and *already* he has spun himself off-topic. Well done, PETER, because that's only one off your all-time record!

requires any action from Pals no doubt does make you laugh.

If the Arabs want a direct route to Gaza through Israel they have to trade for it. I note you avoid mention of the West Bank as a only part of the Pal demands.

G: "Johnboy, let me clue you in." Please do... G: "there is a great reason why Palestinians are rotting away in Israeli jails" And that being.......? G: "Their terrorist, criminal, murderous actions put them there." Hahahahahahahah! I *believe* you will find that the PA is pushing for the Goldstone Report to go to the ICC for exactly the same reasons. As in: the terrorist, criminal, murderous actions of the IDF means that More Than A Few Of Them deserve to spend their days rotting away in a Hague prison. G: "These are the hardest of criminals, convicted of murdering innocent civilians." Hahahahahahahahah!!! Only a zionist can say that in a talkback on the Goldstone Report and not see the irony!

Who could have seen that coming, the PA moving to have Israel held accountable for war crimes against its "enemy", Hamas! The PA can clearly clain impartiality, and Israel can hardly protray the PA as being in leauge with Hamas... not the sort of consequence of splitting the Palestinians that Israel foresaw, litt doubt of that!

PSM: "JOHNBOY If Pals make new demands from Israel Its THEIR conditions." Haaretz: "The Palestinian Authority is urging the UN Human Rights Council to adopt the Goldstone Commission report in full and pass it on to the General Assembly for action." Nooooooope, PETER, I don't see anything in there where the Palestinian Authority is making **any** demands of Israel. You do, do you? May I suggest you have your eyes tested?

Johnboy, let me clue you in. there is a great reason why Palestinians are rotting away in Israeli jails. Their terrorist, criminal, murderous actions put them there. They surely are not jailed because they belonged to Sunday School choir, as you may suggest. These are the hardest of criminals, convicted of murdering innocent civilians. The only wonder is they haven't been executed, as many, many other countries would. Why defend murderers, Johnboy. We actually agree on one thing, they should not be rotting in jail, the murderers should be put to death.

The PA. There will be no Peace with the Palestinians for at least 150 years. Whether you like to hear it or not!

To the OBserver, While I agree that Hamas is not the best gov still there are not as monstrous as you like to portray them. Israel government and its supporters use these words constantly: Terrorist, Taliban, AlQaedia, in hopes to distract the world (esp Americans) away from their own crimes. I am not saying Hamas is great, on the contrary. But when you take a peoples land, kill them, starve them, close their water taps, build walls & check points around them, take them prisoners, etc. then at some point they?ll just have to snap! I mean come on how long can human patience hold and bear.

The other Palestinian hope of dragging in other Arabs and Muslims into war with Israel is not in the cards for a while so Palestinians have to do something with their time. The only reason some non-Palestinians will pay attention is because of their obsession with Jews and sticking it to them.

The thing is Peter, I understand the Jewish people's connections to West Bank sites and I understand the legal mess of the Palestine Mandate. I also understand that 1967 was, on some level, a defensive war, even if Israel fired the first shot. HOWEVER, the rules of military occupation no longer apply here. They are designed to deal with cases where an army finds itself through force of events occupying an area for a year or two. They are not designed to deal with an army occupying a country for over 40 years, with no sign of ever leaving, while it settles its own civilians in the area. By creating an apartheid situation of one law for Israelis in the WB and keeping the Pals unfree and powerless for 40 years, Israel has HUGELY abused its position to the extent that there is now no justification for its continued presence there. Yes, Hamas, may take over there, though I suspect it won't. However, Israel should have thought about that before comprehensively alienating every Pal.

attacks at Israel, in collaboration with the rest of the Muslim and Arab world: military, terroris, demographic, political, economic and now legal. The only logical reason for such attacks, which began as soon as Israel was proclaimed, is to undermine the very existence of this tiny UN member state and, to use Iran's president's words, "wipe Israel off the face of earth". No wonder, therefore, they have been known to never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity for peace. This is simply not their goal it clearly appears.

What has Israel got left as a incentive for the Arabs to stop more demands after they have the West Bank.What is there to stop a Hamas-Iranian buildup. Sweeping solutions are populist solutions and work accordingly. Suddenly leaving without a negotiated solution is one of them.

The report clearly states that BOTH SIDES comitted war crimes. (and so both sides would be called before the ICC) If you weren't so keen on calling a report onsided that accuses both sides you might actually see that. The fact that Israel only accepts reports as impartial that accuse the Pals and praise Israel shows the nature of the problem. Blindness towards reality!

The Pals have been kept captive for over 40 years. They should not have to jump through any more hoops to gain their freedom. Israel should get out of the West Bank first. Then IT can negotiate about the settlements.

... rehab for its revionist rhetoric and raucus rules of engagement vis-a-vis Israel, the sooner they'll be of the proper mindset to sober up and studiously face the gargantuan academic task of building a State, instead of constantly being distracted by any and all red herrings of their coloring and accomplishing nothing, yet again, and getting paid handsomely by donors to do it. In the meantime Israel marches by the ones accursed for their vile hate and illogic and floundering in their stupor for decades, on to contributing yet another amazing year's work to the world in all areas of art, science, medicine, etc.

...and letting Israel's own law enforcement system conduct any criminal probes necessitated by the Gaza war. (haaretz) The Israeli military has already conducted an inquest of its actions in Gaza and found itself lily-clean. Would a second and civil Israeli investigation find that the IDF made a mistake or that it purposely overlooked what really happened in Gaza? I doubt it. If at this point the US and Israel are discrediting the Goldstone Report, who would they be kidding by having a second inquest, especially if it's to be conducted by Israel? It was about time that the PA stoppped being Israel's collaborator and started acting loyally towards its own people; it's finally discovering that the Israeli government cannot be trusted.

If indeed the pressure exerted by Israel and AIPAC succeds in derailing the recommendations of the Goldstone report, then it is time to apologise to the veterans of the German Army for all these years of vilification. They too, while having to reconquer the Warsaw Ghetto, had to fight against armed irregulars that had shielded themselves behaind women and children. Very much like the difficulty faced by ZAHAL in the Gaza strip.

Lynn: "as Prime Minister of the Palestinians Abbas could very well be put in the same position and sent to the ICC." And if Abbas were responsible for war crimes then THE OCCUPYING POWER has the authority to arrest him and bring him before its own courts. You **do** remember that Abbas represents a people who are under a belligerent occupation, don't you, Lynn? Lynn: "After all he is the legitimate head of the Pal Gov and therefore responsible." Hmmmm, apparently you *are* perfectly capable of forgetting that there is an occupation when it suits you to be So Very Forgetfull. How spendidly convenient, and how wonderfully zionist of you.... The ICC is not required, Lynn, because authority to charge Abbas with war crimes does not lie with Abbas himself. It lies with the occupying power instead. Use it or lose it, luvvie.

Israel above all, and all in all, must be hauled into court to face charges of first and foremost violations of the Fourth Geneva Convention, prohibiting SETTLEMENT of Occupied Territory. Cast Lead, as well as the Iran problem, are direct spinoffs from Israel's Settments Enterprise, in defense of which Israel has proven itself more than willing to break international law every time. This systematic lawbreaking must be stopped.

of the prophets and kings of old would also be accused?

This group just amazes me. Every move they make shows that they don't want Israel as a peace partner. Don't even let the Red Cross visit Gilad Shalit to see how he is, still throw rockets across Israel's border and they ask the UN to adopt Goldstone's report. Chutzpah!

The PA, as the responsible authority of the Palestinians should have denounced Hamas rocketry systematically before it forced israel to take defesnive acts. Now the late awakening PA is using it's peoples casualities caused by Hamas hiding within the population cynically for propaganda purposes. When the PA starts to take a moral stand, ends corruption, and gains popular support from it's ownpeople, it may begin to be a credible source of opinion. Til then it's just spin for it's own benefit. shame. the Palestinianian state is not moving closer to reality by such tactics.

Because it will make it much harder for the United States to sign onto the Int'l Criminal Court -- which it shouldn't. In the past, defenders of the ICC have always insisted that its safeguards made such politicization very difficult. The Goldstone report shows that alleged "war crimes" are easy to find anytime one investigates a war, and that any country that protects itself militarily can therefore end up before the ICC if antagonistic countries at the UNHRC or elsewhere insist on taking a closer look. If getting a U.S. President and Senate to support American membership in the ICC was a difficult task before, it is impossible now -- now that it's clear that the ICC and similar international bodies are really a tool for punishing only some countries' military activities and not others (like those of many UNHRC member states whose leaders are much better candidates for being war crimes defendants than Israel's military commanders).

#4--the double standards employed in vilifying Israel for routine military tactics used by everybody else in the world are not self-legitimating. Israel does not target civilians per se--Hamas does. Meanwhile inadvertent American civilian casualties in Afghanistan and Pakistan are well within the range, indeed exceed, those killed in Cast Lead. I would not be so eager to pat myself on the back.

Whatever the Israeli government do it should not fear the international community since the US will keep in protecting and preventing.

If Israel is to be judged by any outside authority, then the recommendations also have to include Hamas, not just Israel. Anything else is just plain anti-Israel discrimination. This may be exactly what Mahmoud Abbas has in mind--after all, it would be a convenient way to destroy his political rivals without working up a sweat. Have any of you geniuses thought of that?

Israel is just the beginning. The big fish is the US and NATO who have killed millions of civilians in arial bombing in Iraq, Afganistan and Yugoslavia.

Thousands of jews have been killed over the years homocide PALs bombers who purposely target civilians and the UN does nothing Thousands of iraqi's are killed by homoicde al qauda bombers who purposely target cilivians and the UN does nothing. Isreal killed hundreds of terrorists and their suppporters and the UN will now acts? Hamas hid behind civilians, so some civilians had to die, but it was hamas fault for hiding behind women and children. You shoot at me from behind a group of children and I will return fire.

Its THEIR conditions. When can we expect the "human rightists" trawling here to investigate suicide bombers?the ongoing Qassams? Who are you people kidding?

Where were the cries of occupation in Egyptian Gaza and Jordanian West Bank? What was wrong with taking the W.Bank and Gaza from the Israelis in return for peace in 1967?

Lynn oes not what she is talking about. Israel has been indicted by a respectable Jewisg Judge for its war crimes and it is a shame that Obama who is trying to invedtigate american for alleged war cimes while trying to shield Israelis from porsecution. As for Abbas if he commited crimes he should stand in line in front of the ICC with the Israeli leadership.

Neither do any of the Arabs. They just want to get and destroy Israel. This is one more proof. The Europeans should get that through their thick skulls.

*Qassams ongoing,launched from civillian areas onto Israeli civillians * Hamas chosing to fight without uniforms from amongst their civillians * UNHRC ignoring evidence of Hamas use of hospitals Mosques schools ambulances and children. How is that just for starters Johnboy what are they waiting for? What are the so called human rightists trawling here waiting for?

Hamas committed the worst war crimes against the palestinians,torturing, maiming, murdering & using hundreds of them as human shields. Hamas continues its brutal policy of torture, maiming, intimidation & murder of Gazans who are not Hamas palestinians. They've created a taliban-like terror state & make life miserable for the Gazans ther

'...PA submitted its "extremely anti-Israel" proposal...' Gee. Imagine that. A 40-year occupied people writing an extremely anti-Israel proposal... Wow.

Qassams regularly launched on Israeli civillians? Use of civillian facilities to launch attacks ! Fighting without uniforms! Proudly announcing the use of women children and the elderly and other evidence happily ignored by the UNHRC frontmen as it did not meet what their human right abuser employers wanted them to find. Islamofascist racist lies in their official media that would make Hitler proud ! Well Johnboy what are you waiting for?

"Since adoption of the PA resolution would almost certainly cause Israel to refuse to resume negotiations, the United States can be counted on to fight it, the Foreign Ministry official said." Sooooooo, Israel is ready to renew negotiations at any time, and without any preconditions, is it? Hmmmmmm, "drop this resolution or I won't negotiate with you" sounds mighty like a precondition to me. Perhaps Abbas should demand that the Israelis drop all charges against all the Palestinians who are currectly rotting away in Israeli jails.....

"There's no question that the HRC, which mandated the Goldstone [fact-finding mission into the Gaza fighting], has an inappropriate, disproportionate fixation with Israel," according to B'tselem human rights group director Jessica Montell.

I imagine the ICC prosecutors are preparing the case against the perpetrators of the war crimes as we speak, especially when the evidence is so overwhelming. And of course any UNHRC member state that's seen to vote against the endorsement of the Goldstone report will go down in history as complicit in Israeli genocide and crimes against humanity in Gaza!

just remeber, if israel and america want to stop this, then they will be giving a green light to any other country to do the same, that is attack and kill first and then claim defence, hell, it could even apply to normal courts couldn't it ?.

I strongly agree that this matter cannot be swept under the rug no matter what president Obama and Israel want. Israelis must confront their own demons and deal with their behavior, honestly. One cannot support Israel and at the same time act as if nothing has happened. The horse is out of the barn and Israelis would do themselves a great deal of good to investigate thoroughly what happened. If Israel, supported by a blind American administration, does not investigate it cannot ask the rest of the world to support it. It cannot! And the rest of the world cannot support Israel. Simple as that!

Abbas could very well be put in the same position and sent to the ICC. After all he is the legitimate head of the Pal Gov and therefore responsible. Start thinking like a grown up instead of an overly emotional little kid.

Well, the USA can do that *AND* endorse the Goldstone report in full. All it needs to do is to force Israel to conduct its own independent and transparent judicial inquiry into the allegations raised in the Goldstone report. The report itself notes that if Israel does that then that will be the end the matter as far as the UNHRC, the UNSC, and the ICC is concerned. So wadda' waitin' fur, Obama? Traumatized by zionist intransigence, are you? Talk about the tail wagging the dog....